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Tucker Carlson Called Trump the ANTICHRIST | Josh Hammer Reacts · Unshaken & Unafraid with Joe Pags

0:00
Speaker 1: Did you hear this? Tucker Carlson just apologized for helping
0:03
Speaker 1: get Donald Trump elected, But that's not anywhere near the
0:06
Speaker 1: worst thing he said about the president. Recently, I sat
0:08
Speaker 1: down with Josh Hammer, author also from the Article three project,
0:12
Speaker 1: and he tells me Tucker just suggested Trump is something horrible.
0:16
Speaker 2: Hi, I'm not even sure we're to begin.
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Speaker 3: Frankly, I mean this conversation that he just had with
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Speaker 3: his brother where they're very solemnly and in somber fashion,
0:25
Speaker 3: they're saying, we're so sorry for misleading you. I mean,
0:28
Speaker 3: you would have thought that the United States what was
0:31
Speaker 3: indiscriminately dropping carpet bombs all over Sub Saharan African villages,
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Speaker 3: just murdering millions billion people. The United States is taking
0:41
Speaker 3: on an Islamist foe that has been chanting death to
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Speaker 3: America for forty seven years, A regime whose initial action,
0:49
Speaker 3: the very first thing they ever did when they came
0:51
Speaker 3: into power in nineteen seventy nine, was to storm not
0:54
Speaker 3: the Israeli embassy, but the American embassy. That was their
0:57
Speaker 3: very first action, was to initiate a four hundred forty
1:00
Speaker 3: four day hostage crisis ultimately took down the Jimmy Carter
1:03
Speaker 3: presidency and brought us Morning in America in the former
1:06
Speaker 3: president Ronald Reagan. This is a righteous war, but the
1:09
Speaker 3: details of the Warl's right says are almost besides the
1:12
Speaker 3: point here, because when it comes to Tucker, I mean, Joe,
1:15
Speaker 3: I'm not sure if he saw that. I actually just
1:16
Speaker 3: saw this earlier today. Apparently he referred to Donald Trump.
1:19
Speaker 3: He speculated openly that Donald Trump might be the Antichrist.
1:22
Speaker 2: He actually, wow, I did not that.
1:25
Speaker 3: I actually just learned that for the first time earlier
1:27
Speaker 3: today myself.
1:28
Speaker 2: I mean, how far is he willing to go? Here?
1:31
Speaker 3: And yes, like you, I was a huge fan Tucker,
1:34
Speaker 3: I like you. I'm sure I've met the guy. He's
1:36
Speaker 3: a very pleasant person, at least used to be a
1:38
Speaker 3: very pleasant person. We had very cordial exchanges. He did
1:42
Speaker 3: very nice personal thing for me once years ago, the
1:43
Speaker 3: details of which are kind of probably beyond the point here.
1:46
Speaker 3: He invited me to go watch a show in person
1:48
Speaker 3: in DC. I did that many years ago.
1:49
Speaker 2: Now I was.
1:50
Speaker 3: I was a guest on his Fox New show actually,
1:52
Speaker 3: and he was laughing at me. He was enjoying my
1:55
Speaker 3: commentary there. I watched his monologue every night during COVID,
1:58
Speaker 3: he was a voice of reason and during the lockdowns
2:01
Speaker 3: during during all the Black Lives Matter nonsense. But the
2:04
Speaker 3: man has just lost his ever lasting mind. And we
2:06
Speaker 3: can kind of debate as to why exactly he has
2:08
Speaker 3: lost his everlasting mind. I have my own theories as
2:11
Speaker 3: to what is going on here, but this is simply
2:13
Speaker 3: not the same Tucker Carlson that we saw on Fox
2:16
Speaker 3: News for a while. I think it's also worth observing
2:19
Speaker 3: that the Tucker who reached his career zenith, it seems,
2:23
Speaker 3: in hindsight during his Fox News day that was not
2:25
Speaker 3: necessarily the same Tucker Carlson as the one who was
2:28
Speaker 3: on CNN Crossfire twenty years ago or the one who
2:30
Speaker 3: was on MSNBC's been a lot of iterations of Tucker
2:33
Speaker 3: Carlson over the years. Back in the day, he was
2:35
Speaker 3: the guy wearing the bow tie, sounding a lot of
2:38
Speaker 3: libertarian kind of you know, lase a fair type talking
2:41
Speaker 3: points there. Now now he's an ultra nationalist, and now
2:43
Speaker 3: he's a I don't even know what he is now frankly,
2:46
Speaker 3: these days, but he's definitely become an avowed enemy of
2:49
Speaker 3: President Donald Trump. Joe, I will give you my own
2:52
Speaker 3: in brief theory necessarily as to his motivation, although I'm
2:54
Speaker 3: happy espectulily on that if you want me to speculate
2:56
Speaker 3: on that, But I will also tell you what I
2:59
Speaker 3: think he's actually trying to do. Here, what I what
3:02
Speaker 3: I think Tucker is trying to do. I've been saying
3:04
Speaker 3: this now for a year, year and a half I wrote.
3:06
Speaker 3: I wrote an essay for it last summer for Barry
3:08
Speaker 3: Weiss's publication The Free Press. I actually think Tucker Carlson
3:11
Speaker 3: wants to run for president in twenty twenty eight. Yeah,
3:13
Speaker 3: I think that he wants to do so on the
3:16
Speaker 3: platform that Donald Trump said he was mad guy. He
3:19
Speaker 3: said he was America First, but he sold you out.
3:21
Speaker 3: And I alone, and the true America First candidate, and
3:24
Speaker 3: I alone can can actually bring this movement to his
3:28
Speaker 3: fruition and to essentially solve all of your problems.
3:31
Speaker 2: Therefore, a vote for me, Now, I think that's ludicrous.
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Speaker 3: I don't think that platform would go very far, especially
3:36
Speaker 3: because he probably he probably wouldn't actually run within the
3:38
Speaker 3: Republican Party. You probably would have would probably be Elon
3:41
Speaker 3: Musk's America Party or some other third party vehicle. But
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Speaker 3: I actually think This is ultimately something of a self
3:48
Speaker 3: serving power grab whe where he's trying to define certain
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Speaker 3: market share and try and ultimately really nothing less than
3:54
Speaker 3: trying to become the lead commander in a post Trump
3:57
Speaker 3: American riot. The problem is that his dist opian vision
4:00
Speaker 3: of what it means to be on the right is
4:02
Speaker 3: a pro trial law, pro Islam, pro China, pro Russia,
4:06
Speaker 3: a horrifically anti Semitic version of what it means to
4:09
Speaker 3: be on the right. And it's a version to be
4:10
Speaker 3: on the right that all good faith and service shouldn't
4:12
Speaker 3: fat at feor jeft.
4:13
Speaker 1: Well, it's Josh Hammer, Go and follow Josh everywhere, you know.
4:16
Speaker 1: It's it's a funny way that he's going about doing
4:18
Speaker 1: it if you'd like to be the leader of a movement,
4:20
Speaker 1: Because at least half, if not more than half of
4:22
Speaker 1: the movement already thinks he's nuts, will never listen to
4:25
Speaker 1: him again. The other, you know, half or or quarter
4:27
Speaker 1: thinks that he should leave Donald Trump alone. So I'm
4:30
Speaker 1: not really sure why he's doing all this. But I
4:31
Speaker 1: want to get back to Iran for a second in earnest,
4:34
Speaker 1: because how do irun if Iran looked like Vietnam? I
4:38
Speaker 1: get it, because I'm against that too. I don't even
4:40
Speaker 1: want our ground troops there. I think that we should
4:42
Speaker 1: take care of the theocracy in other ways. I wasn't
4:45
Speaker 1: necessarily the guy who was ready for us to go
4:47
Speaker 1: into Iran, but I certainly want us to win. But
4:49
Speaker 1: this isn't a quagmire. This isn't this isn't where we're losing,
4:52
Speaker 1: you know, fifteen thousand men a day. I don't. I
4:55
Speaker 1: don't know what it's complained is. So far, it's been
4:58
Speaker 1: superiority by the Americans and the Israelis over Iran, and
5:02
Speaker 1: we've got them on their knees begging for it to stop.
5:05
Speaker 1: You know what I mean. I mean, if he had
5:06
Speaker 1: a point that this is twenty years of Afghanistan, I
5:10
Speaker 1: hear him. If this is you know, fifteen years of Iraq, okay,
5:13
Speaker 1: let's go. If it's Vietnam for decades and generations, you're right, Tucker,
5:17
Speaker 1: But this is an overwhelming success, Josh. I don't know
5:21
Speaker 1: what his problem is, but you mentioned something that was
5:23
Speaker 1: interesting that he's a Sureia law supporter, and he says
5:26
Speaker 1: is lamas supporter. And I would have two weeks ago
5:28
Speaker 1: said you're nuts. But the way he responded to President
5:31
Speaker 1: Trump's truth on Easter really said something to me. Now,
5:35
Speaker 1: I wasn't for President Trump using foul language on Easter,
5:38
Speaker 1: but he said praise me to a Llah or something.
5:40
Speaker 1: And Tucker was bothered by that part alone, not by
5:44
Speaker 1: anything else that was in that was that what informed
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Speaker 1: your decision that he's this pro Islamis guy.
5:49
Speaker 3: Now, oh, he's actually been doing this, Joe, believe or not,
5:52
Speaker 3: for at least a year year and a half or so.
5:54
Speaker 3: There was actually this one clip last summer that I
5:56
Speaker 3: saw of on Tucker's show. He was talking and over
5:59
Speaker 3: his hawking that they put these b roll images of
6:02
Speaker 3: the skylines of Dubai and Doha and Jetta in Saudi Arabia,
6:06
Speaker 3: and Tucker was saying, how look at sharia law. Shria
6:09
Speaker 3: law has built some of the most wonderful cities in
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Speaker 3: the world there, I mean, how could he not appreciate
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Speaker 3: sharia law? And then he had his fawning, his fawning
6:16
Speaker 3: appearance in in Doha with the a mirror of Kattar. First,
6:20
Speaker 3: he had the A mirror of Katar on his show
6:23
Speaker 3: in what appears to have been they bought and paid
6:24
Speaker 3: for interview. There actually was a mom and pop consulting
6:27
Speaker 3: shop in Northern Virginia called Lumin eight Advisors that was
6:30
Speaker 3: a FARA registered foreign agent off the Embassy of Kachtar
6:33
Speaker 3: and DC getting paid almost two hundred thousand dollars a
6:35
Speaker 3: month to lobby on behalf of their clients. And on
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Speaker 3: their FAR registration form they listed precisely one person that
6:41
Speaker 3: they got the Embassy in contact with, and that was
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Speaker 3: the Tucker Carlson Show. So that was the first interview
6:45
Speaker 3: he did. Then he did a second interview with the
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Speaker 3: Amir of Katar in Doha, where he then said that
6:49
Speaker 3: he was buying a house, buying a house in Katar.
6:52
Speaker 3: What kind of American talks about that?
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Speaker 2: I mean?
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Speaker 3: He he Then he got into a debate with Mike Howkabee
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Speaker 3: about whether Christians have an adventury in Israel or or
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Speaker 3: in Katar. The only Christians in Kattar are essentially indentured
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Speaker 3: servants or slates. Literally, you're literally not allowed to publicly
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Speaker 3: practice Christianity in Kottar.
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Speaker 2: But he's been doing this for a while.
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Speaker 3: Actually at the twenty point USA Amfest conference in Phoenix
7:15
Speaker 3: last summer, there in his kind of neandering speech, at
7:18
Speaker 3: one point he said, how you know, why don't we.
7:22
Speaker 2: Hate all Muslims? We shouldn't hate all Muslims there, which in.
7:25
Speaker 3: Theory I agree with that there, but it was a superfluous,
7:28
Speaker 3: gratuitous points. He didn't have to talk about them. Then
7:30
Speaker 3: he had an absurd interview. Around the same time as
7:32
Speaker 3: the AMFES interview, he did an interview with the American
7:34
Speaker 3: Conservative The Papucan and Palliocon magazine, and in this interview,
7:39
Speaker 3: Tucker said that he was not aware of any Americans
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Speaker 3: killed by radical Islam in the past twenty five years,
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Speaker 3: since nine to eleven. And it's like, where do we
7:46
Speaker 3: begin here? I mean, are we just forgetting about the
7:48
Speaker 3: ford Hood massacre in two thousand and nine, Are we
7:49
Speaker 3: forgetting about the Sam Bernardino shooting in California in twenty fifteen,
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Speaker 3: Or are forgetting, for that matter, about the Boston marathon
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Speaker 3: bombing in twenty thirteen, the Bourbon Street massacre in New
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Speaker 3: Orleans just over a year ago, fifteen dead from a
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Speaker 3: lone wolf jihadi trained to a or at least inspired
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Speaker 3: by a Houston, Texas area mosque. I mean, I could
8:06
Speaker 3: go on and on and on here there, but the
8:08
Speaker 3: whole thing is. It is ridiculous, And obviously this has
8:11
Speaker 3: reached something of an apex with this utterly farcical recent
8:16
Speaker 3: tweet that he put out there talking about how you've
8:19
Speaker 3: been told not to believe it, but Muslims love Jesus.
8:23
Speaker 3: And you know, I looked at that, and I mean, sad,
8:27
Speaker 3: statistics matter. You know, data still matter, at least in
8:30
Speaker 3: my world. And you can look at the Christians who
8:32
Speaker 3: have been massacred for their faith around the world over
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Speaker 3: the past year, and the data that I saw was
8:38
Speaker 3: roughly ninety three and a half percent of them were
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Speaker 3: killed by radical Muslims for being Christians.
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Speaker 2: There.
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Speaker 3: So you know, I'm not sure what Tucker's looking at there.
8:48
Speaker 3: I don't know exactly what's going on. When I can
8:49
Speaker 3: tell you is that he's put out a lot of
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Speaker 3: propaganda style videos. He had this ludicrous video He's visiting Jordan,
8:54
Speaker 3: of all countries there, put out this video with kind
8:56
Speaker 3: of this soothing message. He's looking out over the desert saying,
9:00
Speaker 3: oh my God, what a beautiful country. He's sipping tea
9:02
Speaker 3: with with with with with the locals. Again, I have
9:06
Speaker 3: no proof that the man is getting directly paid there,
9:08
Speaker 3: other than a very shady far a contract with the
9:10
Speaker 3: Katari embassy situation. But he's become a shill for Islam,
9:14
Speaker 3: and it's very, very, very weird. This, of course, is
9:17
Speaker 3: a man who repeatedly says that he's a friend of
9:20
Speaker 3: Charlie Kirk. He spoke with Charlie Kirk's memorial out in Arizona.
9:23
Speaker 3: You know, Charlie Kirk's went large swaths of the final
9:25
Speaker 3: year of his life talking about how how Islam is
9:29
Speaker 3: incompatible with Western civilization. It was kind of the number
9:32
Speaker 3: one repeated theme of his message over the final year
9:34
Speaker 3: of his tragically truncated life there. So again, I don't
9:37
Speaker 3: know what's going on with Tucker is actly when it
9:39
Speaker 3: comes this issue there, but he's become essentially a useful
9:41
Speaker 3: shill for Islam. And if I'm being very honest with you, Joe,
9:43
Speaker 3: it would not shock me if years from now we
9:46
Speaker 3: learned that Tucker even secretly converted to Islam, that would
9:48
Speaker 3: actually not shock me.
9:49
Speaker 2: I'm not saying it happened. I'm saying I wouldn't be shocked.
9:51
Speaker 1: Well, the things that he's saying and the things that
9:53
Speaker 1: he's that he's reacting to, it certainly is not that
9:56
Speaker 1: far off of speculation to say, is there something else
9:59
Speaker 1: going on there? Because when it comes to money, Josh,
10:02
Speaker 1: I can't believe that it would be about money. Tucker
10:04
Speaker 1: has a lot of money. He made a lot of
10:05
Speaker 1: money on Fox. I think when he got fired he
10:07
Speaker 1: probably had to be paid off through his contract. He's
10:09
Speaker 1: certainly making tons of money and advertising on his very
10:12
Speaker 1: well liked and very well seen podcast. At least it
10:16
Speaker 1: was well liked before he got into this very strange mode.
10:18
Speaker 1: So I'm not sure unless it's a billion dollars, what
10:21
Speaker 1: changes if somebody starts injecting you with a few million
10:24
Speaker 1: dollars here and there to go do our bidding. I
10:26
Speaker 1: mean again, maybe I'm being too logical about it, but
10:29
Speaker 1: here's a guy that you're right, has been all over
10:31
Speaker 1: the place from the Crossfire days. So when he was
10:32
Speaker 1: on Red Eye on Fox he was saying, let's take
10:35
Speaker 1: out Iran. I would vomit ron if in fact I
10:37
Speaker 1: were in charge. To what he's saying now that you've
10:39
Speaker 1: got to be beside yourself if somebody says something that
10:42
Speaker 1: seems mocking towards the word allah. So I don't know.
10:46
Speaker 1: To me, it feels like it's got to be something
10:48
Speaker 1: more than money, because I think money is readily available
10:51
Speaker 1: to a guy like Tucker Carlson, and he just stayed
10:53
Speaker 1: in his lane. So something else. I mean, maybe you're
10:55
Speaker 1: onto something that he doesn't like, you know, Western civilization anymore.
10:58
Speaker 1: Maybe he doesn't like Judeo Christian values. I don't know.
11:01
Speaker 1: I wish he would come out and say it instead
11:03
Speaker 1: of saying stupid things like Trump is the anteach Christ
11:05
Speaker 1: and I'm sorry that I misled you into voting for
11:08
Speaker 1: the guy, because again, Iran is in Vietnam. This cannot
11:12
Speaker 1: be the trigger for what it is that he's saying.
11:14
Speaker 1: It's got to be something very different. I don't know
11:15
Speaker 1: if you know his brother, Buckley, but this guy was
11:17
Speaker 1: sitting there as well. I guess he wrote speeches for
11:20
Speaker 1: Trump and he's apologizing for that as well. Is that
11:22
Speaker 1: the story?
11:24
Speaker 3: So I actually learned that for the first time as
11:25
Speaker 3: well during this conversation. I had no idea that Buckley
11:28
Speaker 3: Carlson rost speeches for Trump.
11:29
Speaker 2: I guess that's true. At the first time I'm hearing it.
11:31
Speaker 3: I take them at the word, I guess, I mean
11:34
Speaker 3: taking them at the world is not necessarily the safest
11:36
Speaker 3: thing these days. But I have no reason for thinking
11:38
Speaker 3: that they would lie about that particular detail. At least
11:42
Speaker 3: you know, Buckley Carlson is a guy who has tweed
11:45
Speaker 3: out lots of links to website called uns which is
11:47
Speaker 3: essentially a modern neo Nazi publication. It's a guy who
11:49
Speaker 3: well has come after me in the most unhinged terms
11:53
Speaker 3: of manageable, essentially echoing Candice Owens is not so subtle
11:56
Speaker 3: insinuation that I allegedly had fore knowledge and therefore complete
12:00
Speaker 3: city in the assassination of my of my good, horrible
12:03
Speaker 3: good friend, Charlie Kirk. I mean, Buckley has been just
12:05
Speaker 3: an utter and utter cancer frankly on the public discourse.
12:08
Speaker 3: He's he's been doing all the conspiratorial Israel kill Charlie stuff.
12:12
Speaker 3: It's just awful. I mean, I mean, the Carlton brothers
12:14
Speaker 3: have gone down just a very very very profound rabbit hole.
12:18
Speaker 3: And I hear you, Joe loud and clear that Tucker
12:21
Speaker 3: is very wealthy. He he doesn't need any more money.
12:24
Speaker 3: I guess I want to say that that more money
12:26
Speaker 3: definitely doesn't hurt. But I do suspect that there is
12:28
Speaker 3: something besides money that is going on here, and it's
12:31
Speaker 3: possible that that he secretly converted. I think, honestly, the
12:35
Speaker 3: simpler answer here, the simpler answer is twofold this is
12:39
Speaker 3: this is how I see it. On the one hand,
12:42
Speaker 3: I very reluctantly concluded at this point, I think it's
12:44
Speaker 3: kind of an unavoidable. Actually, Tucker has made hatred of
12:48
Speaker 3: the Jewish people one of the center most focal points
12:51
Speaker 3: of his entire worldview. A shockingly high percentage of his
12:55
Speaker 3: daily newsletters, which I produce, a shockingly high percentage of
12:58
Speaker 3: his shows are about one topic and one topic only,
13:02
Speaker 3: which is how diabolical of a force the world's soul
13:06
Speaker 3: tiny Jewish state, the state of Israel, is on the world.
13:09
Speaker 3: And when he's really more unhinged, he kind of lets
13:12
Speaker 3: slip even further and he starts coming after the prinished
13:14
Speaker 3: influence of all sorts of high profile Jews. I mean,
13:16
Speaker 3: the people that he comes after are people like Mark
13:19
Speaker 3: Levin and Ben Shapiro and me Josh Hammer and Ben
13:22
Speaker 3: Barry Weiss. I mean, you know, we have one thing
13:25
Speaker 3: in common. It's really not that hard to figure out
13:26
Speaker 3: what it is there. So it's really not that hard
13:29
Speaker 3: to figure out, I think, to an extent, what's motivating
13:31
Speaker 3: a lot of this. And look, if you if you
13:33
Speaker 3: really hate the Jews that much, it kind of makes
13:35
Speaker 3: sense that you become a shill for Islam. That's kind
13:37
Speaker 3: of a logical corollary of that the other thing that's
13:41
Speaker 3: going on here, because Tucker is not just an anti
13:43
Speaker 3: semi He's not just a shill for Islam, as you
13:45
Speaker 3: also allude to, He's also become just a.
13:47
Speaker 2: Faux Western civilization.
13:48
Speaker 3: This is a guy who had on a Chinese Communist
13:50
Speaker 3: party mouthpiece on a show. It was vigorously nodding along
13:54
Speaker 3: as this Chinese Communist Party mouthpiece of guy by the
13:56
Speaker 3: name of Chang as he was saying, how America has
13:59
Speaker 3: to enter into a power sharing agreement where they equally
14:02
Speaker 3: share power with Russia and China rock It's like Howard
14:06
Speaker 3: zinnoam Chomsky soft. This is like Cold War era Bernie
14:09
Speaker 3: Sanders left wing think, and Tucker's like vigorously nodding along there.
14:13
Speaker 3: He obviously obviously did the fawning interviews of Putin in Moscow,
14:17
Speaker 3: the propaganda videos, and the supermarket that this to that.
14:19
Speaker 2: So it's not just the Jews. He really seems to
14:21
Speaker 2: hate Western civilization.
14:22
Speaker 3: Frankly, seems to hate America and be very honest here,
14:25
Speaker 3: and my take on that is essentially as follows. There
14:28
Speaker 3: have been a series of events that have transpired that
14:31
Speaker 3: have caused Americans, and I could include myself in this,
14:34
Speaker 3: by the way, to lose faith in the American ruling class,
14:37
Speaker 3: in American elites. There have been a lot of events
14:39
Speaker 3: going back at least as far as the Russia Gate
14:41
Speaker 3: hoax very much, including twenty twenty, the election, the lockdowns.
14:46
Speaker 3: There's been a lot of examples, frankly, and that I
14:48
Speaker 3: have been a huge vocalizer of that. I have condemned
14:51
Speaker 3: American ruling class repeatedly in virtually every form of media imaginable,
14:56
Speaker 3: my show, my columns, et cetera. I think what Tucker
14:58
Speaker 3: has done here, though, is he has conflated, whether deliberately
15:03
Speaker 3: or perhaps he hasn't realized it, He's conflated the American
15:07
Speaker 3: ruling class with America itself. And he has said that
15:10
Speaker 3: it's not just the American ruling class that has sold
15:12
Speaker 3: America outs, but America itself actually has sold the American
15:16
Speaker 3: people out. In other words, America has become a force
15:19
Speaker 3: for bad, a force for evil on the world's age
15:22
Speaker 3: you know, in a weird way. It's kind of like
15:23
Speaker 3: that Harvey Dent quote from from The Dark Knight, right,
15:26
Speaker 3: you either die a hero or live live.
15:29
Speaker 2: Long enough to see yourself become a villain.
15:30
Speaker 1: Right.
15:31
Speaker 3: And it's definitely not my take that America is the villain,
15:34
Speaker 3: but I think that that actually is Tucker Carlson's taken
15:37
Speaker 3: his worldview at this point as well.
15:38
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Speaker 1: because it is just top quality for a price. You're
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Speaker 1: gonna like Modern Rugged dot Com. Now back to the video. Well,
16:45
Speaker 1: I think it is, and I think that you're right
16:47
Speaker 1: on that. I would like to find out what happened.
16:49
Speaker 1: I wish he would just be honest and say, here's
16:51
Speaker 1: what changed me, Here's why I feel the way I feel,
16:54
Speaker 1: instead of apologizing for being right before because he was.
16:57
Speaker 1: I mean, he wanted Kamala Harris instead, which would be
17:00
Speaker 1: very strange. Go and get his book. It's called Israel
17:02
Speaker 1: and Civilization. It's Josh Hammer, The Josh Hammer Show. Go
17:05
Speaker 1: check that out as well. I always gain knowledge from you,
17:08
Speaker 1: and I'm going to do a deep dive into your
17:10
Speaker 1: brain here on Israel. I really want to know where
17:12
Speaker 1: you are on this stuff. By the way, I had
17:14
Speaker 1: a guy named Sahar tv on not long ago, and
17:16
Speaker 1: he's great. He's a guy who very calmly debates and
17:19
Speaker 1: defends Israel. And he's right, he's factually right, he's historically right.
17:23
Speaker 1: I want to learn from you now. I saw a
17:25
Speaker 1: video with gold in my Ear from the nineteen seventies,
17:28
Speaker 1: I think it might have been late sixties, probably early seventies,
17:31
Speaker 1: where she said, why are people saying, let's go back
17:34
Speaker 1: to the nineteen sixty seven borders? You had them before
17:36
Speaker 1: you attacked us in nineteen sixty seven. Why do we
17:39
Speaker 1: go back to that when we defeated you. So the
17:41
Speaker 1: whole argument about the strip of land that we call
17:44
Speaker 1: Israel a very tiny country, as you said, that's surrounded
17:46
Speaker 1: by twenty four and twenty two Islamic countries. That argument
17:49
Speaker 1: is dumb, doesn't make sense, but it's leaving a lot
17:51
Speaker 1: of people dead. I want to know what your reaction
17:54
Speaker 1: is to people who want to denigrate and sully the
17:57
Speaker 1: leadership of Israel and the people who live in it
18:00
Speaker 1: by saying they're not really Arab Jews, They're not really
18:04
Speaker 1: like gold in my was known as a Palestinian Jew
18:07
Speaker 1: back in the nineteen twenties, these are people from Europe,
18:10
Speaker 1: so they don't belong there. What is your response to that?
18:14
Speaker 3: So First of all, you know to your point about
18:17
Speaker 3: the word Palestine, So let's kind of take that head
18:19
Speaker 3: on first. So the traditional biblical word for the plot
18:22
Speaker 3: of land would be Judea, the Kingdom of Judah, the
18:25
Speaker 3: kingdom of Israel. What happened there was after the destruction
18:28
Speaker 3: of the of the Second Temple in the year seventy,
18:31
Speaker 3: the Romans took over the land and in an attempt
18:34
Speaker 3: to Romanize it, and indeed Judai is the holy land
18:38
Speaker 3: that they were the ones who came up with the
18:39
Speaker 3: word Palestine. It was roughly taken from the ancient Philistines.
18:43
Speaker 3: They kind of changed the prounciation a little bit. That's
18:45
Speaker 3: how we got Palestina in the ancient to Latin.
18:47
Speaker 1: And we called it. I just want to say, I
18:48
Speaker 1: think you and I talked about this before, or I've
18:50
Speaker 1: studied this as well. They called it Palestine because they
18:53
Speaker 1: wanted to anger the Jews or something. They did that
18:56
Speaker 1: to say, this is your former foe, and now we're
18:58
Speaker 1: going to name it sort of the same thing, just
19:00
Speaker 1: to rub it in your face.
19:02
Speaker 2: That's exactly right.
19:03
Speaker 3: But nonetheless, the name largely stuck, and that was a
19:05
Speaker 3: name for almost two thousand years and it was the
19:09
Speaker 3: name of that plot of land even between the end
19:12
Speaker 3: of World War One, which is when the Oman Empire
19:14
Speaker 3: lost control of the Holy Land and was given to
19:17
Speaker 3: the British part of the British Mandate. So even then
19:19
Speaker 3: it was called the British man date for Palestine. So
19:21
Speaker 3: I'll kind of just just give you kind of a
19:23
Speaker 3: bit of a personal example here. Actually, so my wife's
19:27
Speaker 3: father's mother, so her paternal grandmother was born in the
19:33
Speaker 3: Land of Israel prior to nineteen forty, prior to the capitalisted.
19:36
Speaker 2: State of Israel. So her passport, she was Jewish.
19:40
Speaker 3: She was in i rocki jew Her passport was a
19:42
Speaker 3: Palestinian passport. She was born as a quote unquote Palestinian.
19:45
Speaker 3: Actually she was Jewish. You can go back and look
19:48
Speaker 3: at the photos. There is all these interesting photos on
19:51
Speaker 3: Google Images. Literally, you can do it. You can google
19:54
Speaker 3: Palestinian soccer team nineteen thirties, okay, and what you'll see
19:58
Speaker 3: is a bunch of guys wearing these blue and yellow
20:01
Speaker 3: soccer jerseys with with the with the star of David,
20:03
Speaker 3: the Jewish star, and their names, you know, the name
20:06
Speaker 3: things like gold Schmidt and and and Rosenberger and and
20:09
Speaker 3: and Cohen. You know, you know, they're not names on
20:12
Speaker 3: Mohammad and ahmen there, but that was the that was
20:14
Speaker 3: the Palestinian soccer team back then there, right, So I look,
20:19
Speaker 3: there's clear, unambiguous evidence that the Jewish people have been
20:24
Speaker 3: in the land of Israel since biblical times. If anyone
20:27
Speaker 3: listening or watching this has the opportunity to do so,
20:30
Speaker 3: I cannot encourage you strong enough to go to Jerusalem,
20:33
Speaker 3: go to an amazing, amazing archaeological excavation site called the
20:36
Speaker 3: City of David. It's really the place I've been to
20:38
Speaker 3: my entire life where the Bible comes to life. I've
20:40
Speaker 3: been there a number of times. Last time I was there,
20:43
Speaker 3: I think it was it was about two years ago now,
20:45
Speaker 3: after October seventh, and then I was going on and guided tour,
20:47
Speaker 3: and our tour guide takes out a book from the
20:51
Speaker 3: from the prophets. I'm trying to remember exactly which book was.
20:53
Speaker 3: I might have been in the Book of Jeremiah. And
20:56
Speaker 3: he's talking about about a certain verse about how a
20:58
Speaker 3: certain king had had a coin, and then he literally
21:00
Speaker 3: takes out the coin from like the floor. It's like
21:03
Speaker 3: an amazing it's just an amazing, amazing thing there. So
21:05
Speaker 3: there's there's unambiguous archaeological evidence that the Jewish people have
21:09
Speaker 3: been living there for a very very long time. The
21:12
Speaker 3: modern state of Israel, as you as you alluded to,
21:14
Speaker 3: is legitimate for all the various reasons that a modern
21:17
Speaker 3: state chemilogitimid and when it comes to treaty, when it
21:20
Speaker 3: comes to international recognition, when it comes when it comes
21:22
Speaker 3: to military conquest there. So, you know, this is not
21:26
Speaker 3: really a viable debate for anyone who isn't an idiots. Unfortunately,
21:30
Speaker 3: we live in a day and age where there are
21:31
Speaker 3: just a lot of idiots, and there's also just this
21:34
Speaker 3: online currency which Tucker and others have tapped into where
21:37
Speaker 3: just bashing the Jews and bashing the world's proverbial jew
21:42
Speaker 3: which is the Jewish States, you know, is very good
21:44
Speaker 3: for clicks and al form.
21:45
Speaker 1: Well, Josh, you and I agree on all of that.
21:47
Speaker 1: And again you know this about me, I'm a Christian.
21:50
Speaker 1: I believe that is the promised land to those people
21:53
Speaker 1: that were chosen, which are the people of Juda and
21:55
Speaker 1: Samarias the people of Canaan. I meant, I'm not sure
22:00
Speaker 1: why there's an argument other than the only last guess,
22:03
Speaker 1: gasp that these people have is yeah, but it's not
22:06
Speaker 1: really the Jews. They say they're the Jews, but these
22:08
Speaker 1: are a bunch of people from Europe. They just wanted
22:10
Speaker 1: to take the land from the Palestinians. I mean, how
22:12
Speaker 1: do you counter that argument? I guess there's they seem
22:15
Speaker 1: to think, and this is dumb, but they seem to
22:17
Speaker 1: think there has to be some sort of ancestral line
22:20
Speaker 1: for three thousand years proving that Benjamin nah who gets
22:24
Speaker 1: to be a guy who leads the Jewish people in Israel.
22:27
Speaker 1: It's dumb because you can't really go back to the
22:29
Speaker 1: first person unless you want to go to Adam and
22:31
Speaker 1: figure it out from there. But I mean, the people
22:33
Speaker 1: who called themselves native Americans aren't really They've got Asian
22:36
Speaker 1: and European ancestry. So when they make that dumb argument
22:40
Speaker 1: you don't belong there because I say so, because you
22:42
Speaker 1: can't carry your family line back four thousand years, what's
22:46
Speaker 1: the response?
22:47
Speaker 3: Sure, So there's actually been DNA studies on this, actually,
22:50
Speaker 3: and they have shown through the you know, the genealogy people,
22:55
Speaker 3: the DNA scientists of which I am not one, but
22:57
Speaker 3: the actual DNA people have actually study this, and they
23:00
Speaker 3: have shown that Ashkanizi Jews, Jews of Central Eastern European
23:04
Speaker 3: backgrounds are are these saying Jews just like the other
23:07
Speaker 3: Sephardic Jews, who are Jews from the Spanish diaspora into
23:11
Speaker 3: Northern Africa. My wife is actually a Sephardic Jew. So
23:14
Speaker 3: these studies have shown that Ashcarized Jews just like Sephardic Jews,
23:17
Speaker 3: just like miss Rothy Jews, who are the Jews actually
23:19
Speaker 3: from the Middle East itself. They all can trace their
23:22
Speaker 3: DNA back to the to the same bottleneck, which essentially
23:25
Speaker 3: occurs around the year seventy when the Romans conquered Israel
23:28
Speaker 3: and they and they all had to flee. And there
23:31
Speaker 3: is this conspiracy theory. Kendis Owns has probably been the
23:33
Speaker 3: number one proponent of it over.
23:34
Speaker 2: The past year or so. They say that I'm jump
23:36
Speaker 2: on yeah, that's right.
23:38
Speaker 3: And they said that Ashcarized Jews like myself are are
23:41
Speaker 3: the descendants of the Kazar Turks and not the actual Jews. Again,
23:44
Speaker 3: there have been literal studies on this. I will also
23:47
Speaker 3: just just point to one. So the way Judaism works
23:51
Speaker 3: is you have the twelve tribes and among those tribes
23:54
Speaker 3: are the tribe of Levy, and within the Levit tribe
23:58
Speaker 3: you actually have the priestly class. This is all over
24:00
Speaker 3: the Hebrew Bible, all over the Old Testament, and the
24:02
Speaker 3: priestly class referred to as the Cohens or in Hebrew
24:05
Speaker 3: the Cohanin to this day, in synagogue services, we have
24:10
Speaker 3: the priestly blessing given by the Kohan Nime. My father
24:13
Speaker 3: in law actually is once whenever I go to synagogue
24:15
Speaker 3: with my father in law, he goes up there for
24:16
Speaker 3: a very special blessing there. I say all this, and
24:19
Speaker 3: this is kind of a little inde weed stuff, because
24:21
Speaker 3: all of the Coohannen, the Cohens who are part of
24:24
Speaker 3: the tribe of Levi, whether they're Ashkenazi, sepharicromsrocky. This DNA
24:29
Speaker 3: study that came out just a few years ago, I
24:31
Speaker 3: think it was twenty twenty two twenty three. Right around
24:33
Speaker 3: then there a new study actually showed that they share
24:36
Speaker 3: a common genealogical ancestor, which we would argue goes back
24:40
Speaker 3: all the way to Aaron, who's the brother of Moses,
24:42
Speaker 3: Who's who's the original patriarch of the priests. He's the
24:45
Speaker 3: original Cohon Goadol, the original high priest there in the
24:49
Speaker 3: end of the Book of Exodus into the Book of Leviticus,
24:51
Speaker 3: with a tabernacle in the desert, et cetera, et cetera,
24:53
Speaker 3: et cetera. So there actually is some genealogical evidence on
24:56
Speaker 3: this there it's basically just a load of crap essentially, Joe,
24:59
Speaker 3: And I mean, I definitely know how else to say that,
25:03
Speaker 3: there's overwhelming archaeological evidence. There is genealogical evidence there anyway
25:08
Speaker 3: you could possibly want there to be evidence. By the way,
25:11
Speaker 3: one final thing that that I will say on this,
25:13
Speaker 3: I think a lot of Americans, especially a lot of leftists,
25:15
Speaker 3: these these stupid pro you know, proa mosque people on Camus,
25:19
Speaker 3: were not there.
25:19
Speaker 1: You know.
25:19
Speaker 3: I think they had this perception of Israel as being
25:22
Speaker 3: a bunch of like Larry David or Jerry Seinfeld kind
25:25
Speaker 3: of white looking people there. But uh, you know, oshkar
25:28
Speaker 3: Nazi Jews like myself are actually a minority in Israel.
25:31
Speaker 3: They they are outnumbered by by sephardikim is rocky Jews. Again,
25:35
Speaker 3: my wife, my wife is a Sephardic Jew, her her
25:38
Speaker 3: parents are well, they're both Israelly originally. But my father
25:42
Speaker 3: in laws is even before that was a rocky and
25:45
Speaker 3: my mother in laws is mostly Moroccan and Tunisian, and
25:47
Speaker 3: my wife is considerably darker skinned than I am. So
25:50
Speaker 3: much showing on. I'll kind of I'll kind of end
25:51
Speaker 3: with this funny personal anecdote. My wife and I were
25:54
Speaker 3: at a buddy's wedding in Cancun, Mexico a few years ago,
25:57
Speaker 3: and we're getting a drink at the bar or whatnot,
25:59
Speaker 3: and the the staff starts speaking to my wife in
26:02
Speaker 3: Spanish and she kind of says, you know, Noah blos
26:05
Speaker 3: bonio and he literally points to the guy, literally points
26:09
Speaker 3: my wife's arm and says, like, same skin color, right.
26:11
Speaker 3: So I mean, like you know, these people will again
26:14
Speaker 3: like have this perception of Israel, which is just not
26:17
Speaker 3: what it is.
26:17
Speaker 2: That's for sure.
26:18
Speaker 1: You've got to look a certain way. You've got to
26:20
Speaker 1: be Arab and ethnicity or a background, you've got to
26:22
Speaker 1: be ancestrally tied to the land. The bottom line is
26:25
Speaker 1: this the out of an empire had it until the
26:26
Speaker 1: British got it. The British God, with the British mandate,
26:28
Speaker 1: they decided We're going to give this peace to the Jews.
26:32
Speaker 1: Because that historically is where Judaism started, It's where it
26:36
Speaker 1: was based. That's what it is. It's the Holy Land.
26:38
Speaker 1: And I don't know why we're still arguing about it. Josh,
26:40
Speaker 1: let me finish with this, and we got to do
26:41
Speaker 1: the SPLC next time because we're almost out of time.
26:44
Speaker 1: But let me finish with this. How do we get
26:47
Speaker 1: to a place of peace in the Middle East where
26:50
Speaker 1: the Jewish state can exist, where Palestinians can exist other
26:53
Speaker 1: than in Jordan, which is already a Palestinian country, they
26:56
Speaker 1: can exist as well, that they're not trying to kill
26:59
Speaker 1: the Jews at every time, and we can stop this
27:01
Speaker 1: bs that somehow Israel is the root of all evil?
27:04
Speaker 1: Will we get to that place in your lifetime in mind,
27:06
Speaker 1: because they've been arguing about this for a long time.
27:09
Speaker 2: I really don't know.
27:10
Speaker 3: And I obviously want to say the answer is yes,
27:12
Speaker 3: but I would be lying to you if I said
27:13
Speaker 3: that I was confident in that answer. Look, there are
27:16
Speaker 3: a few things to say. One is that focusing on
27:18
Speaker 3: the narrow Israeli Palestine issue, I think often about this
27:22
Speaker 3: great quote from Dennis Prager many years ago, and Dennis
27:25
Speaker 3: famously said that the difference between the Israelis and the
27:28
Speaker 3: Palestinian Arabs is that if the Palestinian Arabs actually put
27:32
Speaker 3: down their guns, put down their weapons, there.
27:33
Speaker 2: Would be peace the next day.
27:35
Speaker 3: If the Israelis put down the guns weapons, there would
27:37
Speaker 3: be no Israel the next day, because it would be
27:39
Speaker 3: October seventh on steroids. So that really is kind of
27:42
Speaker 3: all you need to know about that particular conflict. But
27:45
Speaker 3: the more interesting thing to me, kind of zooming on
27:47
Speaker 3: looking at the broader region, is that the Palestinian Israeli
27:51
Speaker 3: issue is something of a side show actually in the
27:53
Speaker 3: Middle East right now. It's a total fixation. It's a
27:56
Speaker 3: total fixation of the far left on American campuses. Frankly,
27:59
Speaker 3: they are much more obsessed with the palaicine issue at
28:02
Speaker 3: Columbia University, at Harvard, UCLA, all these universities than they
28:06
Speaker 3: actually are in Saudi Arabia, the UE and so forth there. Frankly,
28:09
Speaker 3: a lot of these major Arab countries, if we're just
28:11
Speaker 3: being very honest here, don't actually really care a whole
28:14
Speaker 3: lot about the Palasin issue.
28:15
Speaker 2: They say they do.
28:15
Speaker 3: They try to appease a low their local population there,
28:18
Speaker 3: But at the same time, if you have to try
28:20
Speaker 3: to fly the Palestinian flag, the PLO flag in Riad,
28:24
Speaker 3: the capital of Saudi Arabia, you will likely get arrested
28:27
Speaker 3: because the Muslim Brotherhood is actually designated as a terrorist
28:30
Speaker 3: organization in Saudi Arabia, unlike here in the United States,
28:33
Speaker 3: although it's partially designated but it's not full. It doesn't
28:36
Speaker 3: details aside from now. And they see the Palaesine cause
28:39
Speaker 3: as essentially emblematic of Islamislim, which is in contrast to
28:43
Speaker 3: the more stable monarchies of the Sunni Arab Gulf States.
28:48
Speaker 3: So look, the Abraham Accords during Donald trumpas a first
28:51
Speaker 3: term really started this process of the so called outside
28:55
Speaker 3: in approach of trying to get broader Israeli Arab rap
28:58
Speaker 3: prochemont and then the Palacine issue somehow resolves itself. The
29:03
Speaker 3: problem is that for fifty sixty years, Washington, DC's professional
29:06
Speaker 3: peace process or class tried to do the opproaed to
29:09
Speaker 3: make is really Palaced any peace and they said, only
29:11
Speaker 3: then can Israel make peace with the Arab world. And
29:15
Speaker 3: the beauty of the Trump Netanyahu doctrine is that they've
29:17
Speaker 3: shown that is simply not the case. And my hope
29:20
Speaker 3: Joe is that as a result of epic fury and
29:23
Speaker 3: as a result of Iran just firing like a bunch
29:26
Speaker 3: of lunatics, which they are on all of the Arab
29:28
Speaker 3: states in the region, whether it's Saudi Oman UAE's gone
29:32
Speaker 3: more than any other country, Katar, Kuwait. They essentially, if
29:36
Speaker 3: you're an Arab stay in the Middle East and you
29:38
Speaker 3: have not gone fired on over the past two months
29:40
Speaker 3: from Iran, you know, ask yourself, why am I not
29:42
Speaker 3: invited to the cool kids table because Ran has been
29:44
Speaker 3: firing it everyone. And I say all that kind of
29:47
Speaker 3: tongue in chic because what that really should lead after
29:49
Speaker 3: this war is finally over, is it should lead to
29:52
Speaker 3: a continuation of the Abrahamic Court. It should lead to
29:55
Speaker 3: more Arab countries making peace. This or because they've seen
29:58
Speaker 3: that Iran actually is the threats that the United States
30:01
Speaker 3: and Israel said they were for a very very long time,
30:03
Speaker 3: they have shown it in unambiguous fashion. The mask is
30:07
Speaker 3: just totally off this point there. And for a country
30:09
Speaker 3: like Kattar, which has really played both sides for many
30:12
Speaker 3: years now, I think that they have a pretty clear
30:14
Speaker 3: choice to make, and I'm not going to confidently pict it,
30:17
Speaker 3: but I think that all these countries that literally just
30:19
Speaker 3: took this income Iranian fire have now seen the enemy
30:22
Speaker 3: and they know that the enemy is actually not Israel.
30:24
Speaker 2: The enemy is wrong.
30:25
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm with you one hundred percent, because if you're
30:27
Speaker 1: the surrounding country and you were sort of teetering as
30:29
Speaker 1: to what side you're taking, now you know who's sending
30:32
Speaker 1: in the missiles. Next time we talk. Remind me of this.
30:35
Speaker 1: We have to dispel the lie that Israel somehow created Hamas.
30:39
Speaker 1: I mean, Hamas is just an offshoot of the Muslim
30:41
Speaker 1: Brotherhood and they pretended that they were a charity at first,
30:43
Speaker 1: and Israel certainly propped them up not to help them
30:46
Speaker 1: be Islamist, but because they were against the secular plo.
30:50
Speaker 1: But all of that, I mean, that has to be
30:51
Speaker 1: hashed out as well. People literally look at you in
30:53
Speaker 1: the face and say, what are you talking about? Israel
30:55
Speaker 1: created Hamas just to have this conflict. I'm like, what
30:57
Speaker 1: are you stupid? That isn't what happened at all. So
31:00
Speaker 1: let's go there, because I think what I just said
31:02
Speaker 1: was an abbreviation that can be expanded upon a lot,
31:04
Speaker 1: but of course it didn't create a Hamask of course
31:07
Speaker 1: it wasn't for Islamicism in that region. They were for
31:11
Speaker 1: something to counter to PLO. But this was created by
31:14
Speaker 1: the Muslim brotherhood, and I think that Israel probably didn't
31:16
Speaker 1: realize that when they were taking sides. If they were
31:19
Speaker 1: taking sides in the day, can we do that next time.
31:21
Speaker 2: I'll look forwarte to it very much, Jeff.
31:23
Speaker 1: Josh, your knowledge is amazing. Go get his book. It's
31:25
Speaker 1: called Israel and Civilization. It's available now. Go check out
31:28
Speaker 1: the Josh Hammer show as well. Thank you, brother, appreciate
31:30
Speaker 1: you coming back on.
31:31
Speaker 2: Always a pleasure. Thank you.
31:33
Speaker 1: Okay, that's it for this one. Another Unshaken and Unafraid
31:35
Speaker 1: with Joe Paz. Next time, make sure you subscribe.