Latest / I Hate Soccer with Jason Collinsworth / I Hate Soccer #84 | Lewis Robinson, Western Michigan Women's Head Coach and Midwest United Executive Director

Transcript

I Hate Soccer #84 | Lewis Robinson, Western Michigan Women's Head Coach and Midwest United Executive Director · I Hate Soccer with Jason Collinsworth

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_04: I hate soccer.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so glad I chose here because I didn't know.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_01: I had no idea what was out there and what was in here.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: And how long have the fields been here?
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, so we moved this side of town um probably like 2018, 2017, 18.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_04: Um and this used to be just a um it's like a city-owned, it was a a baseball, an old baseball facility.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_04: So it was all like run-down grass fields and baseball diamonds.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_04: It was kind of like uh, I don't know, like you've been there, the ESPN.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, you know, I used to call it the ESPN Wide World of Sports of like the 1960s, you know.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_04: So it was just all reasonable.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_04: So yeah, we took over then and gradually just built the fields and the facilities like this.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_01: Were those grass fields first and then you uh changed them to turf?
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: Or did as soon as you got it, you got turf?
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it was um it was just like random kind of wreck grass fields.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_04: So um they were doing, and it was before my time, I wasn't um I was a director of coaching, but I wasn't involved in the whole process of moving facilities.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_04: Um but yeah, they we had like some little kid youth rec programming going on on the baseball fields as you do, and then um yeah, they gradually I mean figured out the financing for it and put in these beautiful turf fields.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_04: So we're very lucky, right?
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: Earlier you talked about uh the financing and and how because I am pretty sure you guys are the only club that have your own turf fields like this.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: Now the Western New York Flash has this, but they rent it out to everybody, and then what ends up happening is they rent out the prime hours because they can charge, and then their own teams start at like 425.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's the first starting session.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_01: That's pretty early for families to get to, especially at that level.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_01: And then sometimes they'll be at like eight o'clock on Friday, and they'll be at seven in the morning on Saturday.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: They got they get the worst times.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas you, what'd you say?
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: You guys you guys don't let uh let anybody else on there.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I think I think that's what's pretty unique about.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_04: We've tried to do that.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_04: It's hard because you get some people that come in and say, like, I want to rent the fields for this amount of money, and it it of course we are running a business, right?
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_04: You gotta keep the doors open and the power on.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but yeah, we've been able to like not rent out to other people, which is great.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_04: So it's just like we we try really hard when we've got some spare times when you have like school holidays or summertime, it gets a little bit quieter.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_04: Right, we try to leave the fields open, and that's part of the deal.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_04: And our partnership here with the city of Kentwood is the fields also aren't locked, so they're open, so like the community can come and use them.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, that's it.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_04: And and we leave that space and we leave our indoor facility.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_04: Like if nobody's using it, Midwest United players are welcome to come and train, of course.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_04: Which is pretty unique, I think, and it's it's a cool thing.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_04: And obviously, not everybody uses it, you know.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_04: We've got 2,000 kids in the club, but it's nice for like the kids that are local and the kids that want to train seven days a week, they've at least got the ability to do so.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_04: And um, yeah, it's pretty it's a pretty unique thing.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_04: I think I think there's a few clubs that have either long-term deals or have their own facilities, but I think we're one of the only ones that we have them and we don't rent them out to other people.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_01: How okay, you said 2,000 players.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: Is that only this location?
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: Because don't you didn't you just sign in like a new club in?
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, well, between the whole like club network, we're about 2,500 now.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but in this main location, we got about 1,200 players.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_04: In our like main branch here, which is the Grand Rapids branch, and then obviously we have a partnership with SCORE, they got about 600 players.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and then we got a bunch of other smaller branches up and down 131, and then we just added here the Sturgis branch um last week, which is about 600 rec players, so it's it's a it's a large group of new players to the club network that I think is gonna open up some new opportunities for them.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_01: And you guys used to be the Grand Rapids crew.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: Were you here during the change, the name change and everything?
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_01: Or the rebranding, I should say.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, so I was here.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_04: I joined in 2009, okay, 2010, um, right when the club became the Grand Rapids crew.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_04: So in the past, it was two other clubs, Grand Valley Premier and Grasser, that merged, and Josh Sheldon was the old executive director, and he brought those clubs together and they became this like giant West Michigan club.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_04: So good.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_04: So when I came in, we were the Grand Rapids crew, and it was great.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, we were huge, had the beautiful facilities down the road.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_04: Um, it was a merger of a bunch of different clubs and coaches, so it was really exciting, right?
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_04: And yeah, I mean, we we lived that life for probably eight or nine, maybe ten years, and then um we we became Midwest United, I think, in 2015.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, which we just felt like like a lot of clubs, I think we were like partnered with the crew.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and at the time it was the old MLS days, so it wasn't uh we weren't getting as much from them, you know.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_04: It's about four or five-hour drive, so it wasn't like they were here every month or we were there.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it was mainly, I think, a branding piece and a and a logo and something that was uh recognizable for those clubs around the area to see, right?
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_04: So we felt like we kind of outgrew it and we didn't need it anymore.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_04: It also became expensive, like you know, you know how those deals work.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_04: It's every year the price increases by 20%.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_04: And in the end, we're like all the money we were paying for that logo, we could do something else, and that's why like on a napkin, Midwest United became, and uh yeah, we rebranded, which which happened, and that brand keeps evolving.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_04: And then, ironically and funnily enough, we're now an affiliate of the Columbus crew.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and now it's more and now it's more legit, would you say?
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_04: Now it's it's completely different, right?
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_04: How does that go?
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_01: How does that work?
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_04: It's just like uh because Michigan's a a free state, right, with no MLS market in it.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, um, they just you know support us and we support them, and it tries to open up a a kind of a two-way pathway for our top players, so but it's very different the last time.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_04: It's it's not a financial deal, and it's one that their staff just comes to our facility quite a lot.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_04: We have kind of open channels for our coaches and our MLS staff to go down there whenever they want, and um it's opened up some great doors to our players to get in there, and I mean they've evolved.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_04: If you've been down there, wow, like when when we used to be the Grand Rapids crew, it was uh just it was a grass field and a trailer where the players would get changed.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_04: And when you go down there now, it's it's amazing, right?
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_04: The training ground, the stadium, the old stadium, the new stadium.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_04: So the game has just changed so much.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_04: So it's it's been great.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_01: So crew is Grand Rapids is all of Michigan considered Columbus Crew's territory?
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_04: It's free territory.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: It's free territory just because we don't have an MLS club.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_04: So we have a crew has a pretty big presence because I think they have a really good youth network.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_04: Um but yeah, that's who we've partnered with, and we've had opportunities to partner with a bunch of different clubs, or you can partner with nobody too.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_04: A lot of clubs do that and just have a free market.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_04: But what we found when we first started in MLS was our players were were being drawn all over the country, and what was happening is like some of these MLS teams in the middle of nowhere were were picking up some 13-year-old from us, right, and taking a 13-year-old kid because they didn't have a team at U-12, and we knew it wasn't the right thing for the player, but the player had to do it because it's MLS and it's cool, and if the family wanted to do it, they did, and then it just wasn't working out for those players, wasn't working out the the right way it should.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_04: So the crew partnership allows us to like have much better communication two-way.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_04: Um, you know, they'll come to us and say, like, who are the top players that we should be looking at in the state.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_04: We serve as a little bit of an extra scouting resource for them, so our staff will do the same thing with other teams, um and we'll get to kind of choose if we have a player that we think is ready, or you know, obviously we sometimes a lot of the time know the individual situation of that player and family if it's right for them and if if crew is a good option for them, and some of them it isn't.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_04: So we're able to get them in the doors there and and open up some doors for them.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_01: When okay, uh when the DA was still around, were were you guys in the DA or not yet?
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_04: We were in the girls DA.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_01: Just the girls DA.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, not the boys, which is and then when the DA went away, were you one of the first teams in the MLS and X or is that a new is that uh Okay, we went we went straight in the Boys MLS.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, whenever that was started, yeah.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_01: 2020.
• 8:30
  unknown: Wow.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_01: This episode is brought to you by the North American Soccer Expo.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_01: If you remember last year when I had Alexi Lovelace on, so many of you were blown away and kept on messaging me like, how did you get Alexi Lovelace to talk to you?
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_01: And then to be honest with you, it was the North American Soccer Expo.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_01: The Expo has workshops and seminars and field presentations from tech coaches and industry experts.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_01: I will be there this year 100%.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_01: I'll be setting them up on public canvas remote.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_01: In addition to the public canvas that I'm going to be filming there, I'm also going to have an open hour where any coach at the expo or anybody at the expo can come sit down at the chair and have a one-on-one 15-minute chat with me, and you guys can just come and chat and talk about whatever you want.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_01: North American Central Expo, July 30th to August 1st, Nova, Michigan.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_01: I'll see you there.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_01: What is exactly your role in the club?
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_01: Executive director?
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_04: Is that where you are?
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, so I moved into that role um three or four years ago, which went Josh Sheldon, stepped away.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I moved into that role and I was in a director of coaching role, so I was heavy on the field.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and I just moved into that role right before I took the Western Michigan job, too.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_04: So it was all weird how it all worked out.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_04: So yeah, I kind of oversee obviously the business side, the strategic side of the club.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_04: Uh we do have, you know, we've been lucky the last couple of years.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_04: We've been able to bring in, you know, Luke Rough as our director of coaching.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_04: We brought in a technical director last year, which has been amazing.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_04: Um then we got age group directors in the different zones um that help lead on the field too.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_01: And Rudy's relatively new as well, right?
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_04: Rudy came in last year, he oversees our Girls Academy program.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_04: Um and then Luke Rough, Cam Baker oversees our MLS program, and we brought in Owen Van Else last year and a sole technical director role, which has been amazing.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: When you guys got in the MLS next, how happy were you that?
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: Because for the longest time, those crew boys, right?
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like let me think of one.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um not Sean Connery.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, Sean Connery, yeah, Connery, right?
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_01: So was Stacy was Jason?
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_01: Stacy, yeah.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: I couldn't.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_03: It was all our group, Jake Van Delan.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_03: Chase Rowe, yeah, it was a Chase.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I uh bullkeeper world.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because uh I was ODP back when ODP mattered.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_01: That's where that's how I know all those boys.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_01: That was a good group, man.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's unbelievable.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_01: But they eventually, uh some of them eventually left to go to the Wolves to play in the DA, right?
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_04: A couple did, but for the most part, the whole group stayed.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_04: Um there was a couple, we actually had a couple of east side players on that team driving over.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_04: How was it, Taylor Missouri?
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_04: I can remember Taylor.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_01: Taylor Missuric, yep.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_04: We had a few.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_03: So it was a unique group.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_01: He left Vardar.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_01: He was at Vardar.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_01: And then once Matt Pakovitz, his uh youth coach left, they were like, I'm going to I'm going to crew.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I mean, that was, and they were the end of like the good old days when they used to play against everybody, right?
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_01: They played maybe in region two or whatever it was.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_01: Or uh MRL.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, oh yeah.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_04: Back when it was really good, right?
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_01: I do you miss those days?
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, for sure.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, do you?
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I I dream of just one system for everybody.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_01: Put every all the boys in the MOS next, and then put all the girls in the ECNL or and just just let's tier it out and everything and promotion relegation.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: And then if anybody's unhappy and wants to start a new club, well, you're starting at the bottom tier.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_01: That's how they do it back at home for you, right?
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it's hard though, right?
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_04: Because the this club platform world is like has taken over, which is and I believe the club platform system is it's really good for the top clubs.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_04: You know, like our top platforms are really good.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_04: The problem with the club platform side is now it seems like every club in Michigan has a platform of some kind, and and 70% of these clubs don't have a team at every age, you know, or they certainly don't have a team of every level.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_04: So like now you've got these 16 club platforms driving to Wisconsin to play, and like they don't have a U-15 team, or they're farming out their U-15 team to some other rec club, you know, and it's just becomes a little bit messy, don't it?
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: And you're in a unique position being at Western, and you have to recruit everywhere.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: You have to recruit all the platforms because you want to find those diamonds in the rough.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_01: You want to keep on winning the Mac.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah, for sure.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_04: That's that's the plan.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, but we do.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, that's we recruit them all.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_04: Man, we do.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_04: Obviously, we have a great um we have a great presence in the GA right now with just because we've got a lot of really good GA clubs in our region and with the Midwest United connection.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_04: So we we get kind of a lot of eyes on that level, but you know, we are obviously at most of the ECNL events, all the big ECNL clubs, but we we do recruit in all all the areas.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, we've got one player who we're really excited about coming in this year.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_04: She's coming in from uh your side of the state, she's from Plymouth Rain.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_04: And we're so excited about her.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_04: She's she's a stud player.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_00: And what are they playing in?
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, maybe they're in the new RL and Yeah.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_04: I think they were always in like the old um the National League platform, whatever that was called the last couple of years.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_04: I thought it got a new name every year.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_04: Now this year they played in the ECRL, RL, whatever new division is, which uh you know, whatever that is.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_04: But it's it's um but for her she's great, and she's the huge high ceiling.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_04: And how did you guys find her uh originally?
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_04: She came to camp and she comes from like a western Michigan family, and you know, we'd seen her, we'd seen her at like State Cup in the old days, we knew she was, and then yeah, she came to camp and just uh tore it up, and we were like, Who do you play for?
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_04: And she tells us, and we're like, Wow, why?
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_04: And then she's you just don't see her very often on the east side, like you know, normally those kids get gobbled up by the big clubs, and she's just like, I got great coaches, I got great people, I got a great team, and that's it.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_04: And it's like so refreshing to hear it, right?
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_04: And then like she's so motivated, and yeah, like I say, we're really excited about her, and and others, and we've got players from the big ECNL clubs in that system too, but it's uh there's certainly good players in all of them, right?
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and it's so important to it's like leave no stone unturned.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_01: You're always just trying to one up everybody, but in this I haven't looked at your roster recently.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_01: How many girls are from Michigan?
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_04: A good amount, yeah, good amount.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_04: We're I mean, with a roster limit now of 28.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, oh yeah.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, we we have a pretty unique footprint that we're like we're right in the middle of Detroit and Chicago, yeah, and then we're an hour from Grand Rapids, so that's kind of our recruiting triangle.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_04: We we pick up some Indiana kids here and there, we're a decent location for that, but for the most part, I'd say you know, 25 of our 29 roster is that triangle, you know, Illinois, Detroit, Grand Rapids.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_04: That's right.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_04: We're kind of a good home for that, right?
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_04: Most of the players of our level they want to go, you know, a couple hours away from home, but maybe don't want to be 10 hours away.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_04: So we've had some really good success with that.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_04: And and I mean, talking on that, if you look at our men's team, you know, and you've seen them play like our men's team do a great job at Western of like finding players in the strangest places, you know.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_04: The men's side is very different to the women's side, definitely, but they find players in in the strangest places, you know, and the most unique places, and uh they've had some MLS players that have come from like premiere teams, you know, that that no one else took a gamble on, and uh Chad does does a great job of finding the right player that he can work with and get them to that top level, you know.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's really refreshing that you uh you talked about the girl that you find found at the camp because I mean all the college coaches that I've talked to throughout you know, this whole process of the podcast is seeing them in person in their club environment is by far number one, right?
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_01: And then after that, then it's after that, then it's either your highlight tape or obviously your emails, and then it's like way down the list is sometimes camp.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_04: It just depends on the program and the I think the flip side to it, though, Jason, is I agree, it is, but I think that's mainly out of ease, right?
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_04: Like we know that you can go to like ECNL in January and you can see a thousand players, right?
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_04: And and a hundred teams that are all good, and you see teams all play.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_04: I would say the flip side of it is you see in the youth game so many times, these really good teams they don't lose the ball much, they don't transition the ball much.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_04: They most of them have a coach that watches Pep Guardiola videos and wants to play Rondo in their own goal box, right?
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_04: And the best player can dominate at that level.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_04: And if you go watch Division I college soccer, it doesn't look like that.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_04: Like it's a different sport, right?
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it just is, and and maybe it's the Mac, but like we don't do that, and it doesn't happen in our league.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_04: And and we've played some really good power four teams, and they don't play like that.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_04: So the college game is dominated by like speed, intensity, transition moments.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_04: So sometimes you'll watch some of these showcase games and you don't see transition moments, right?
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_04: Because everything's about on the ball.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_04: And whereas I think when we bring a kid into camp like that, like we can put them into that like transitional game, whatever it looks like, because we get to control what we do on that day, so then you get to see them at least try and do the things that we know we're gonna do as a team, and maybe the position that she's gonna play for us.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_04: Like, you can obviously see good players at a showcase.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, it's not hard to choose she's a good player, she's a good player, but to pick the right player that's like gonna be a centre midfielder in our team, like it's a little bit more specific than that, you know.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_04: So I think there's there's pros and cons to each one.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_04: I think it's not as simple to say like camp doesn't matter, the same as you can't say showcases don't matter because they do.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_04: It's just you know, we go to these showcases and you're trying to look for good players and you got a hundred coaches on the sideline and we're all looking at the same two players, you know, and you don't need a showcase to see that she's really good, you know, most of the time.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_01: Do you like or I should say, do you find more players at smaller events like where uh where you were uh at the Jags in January?
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_01: Or when was that February?
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah, that that's a great event, isn't it?
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: Doug brought it up, or maybe uh maybe Tinny uh just about how okay at an ECNL event or an MLS Next event, it is, or GA event.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's 24 fields.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: Did you go did you go to FAST this year?
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_04: I didn't know it was 24 fields.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_04: But I know what it is, yeah.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_01: It's wild incredible.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: But it was 24 fields.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_01: And one and then brought it up is like here's only three fields, and you can hit all three fields within the same time frame and see every player that you wanted to see.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I and I never thought about that.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, that's why there's so many coaches here.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_04: Well, and and also you go and you see, and like in the women's game, maybe the men's game is a little bit different, but in the women's game, like see if the reality is 80% of our kids are kids that are two to four hours away.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_04: So like we go to this event in California, and like you also then throw in all the California colleges, all the West Coast colleges, all the East Coast colleges.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_04: So yeah, you've got 150 schools on a sideline, but like it's irrelevant for so many of them, right?
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_04: When you go here, like I'm looking at every kid, and every kid is somewhat interested, right?
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, maybe there's a couple that aren't, but they're all typically Midwest region kids.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so yeah, it's just it's a much it's a much more focused lens, and I feel like it's much more efficient recruiting, right?
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_04: Like and you go to these huge events that the E Chanel ones, the GA ones, and it's amazing.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_04: But like you say, there's three of them, my whole staff are there, and we're all running from field to field, and you're trying to catch 25 minutes of one game, 25 of the other.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, you go to that Jags event, you know all the coaches because we work with them every week.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_04: You can talk to them, you can kind of get their insight a little bit.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_04: We schedule training sessions in camp, so it's it's it's good, man.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_04: That's the connection that is recruiting, right?
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_04: That's that's how it works.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: And how often do you go to these one one of these events, like in Florida, and you're going to watch all the Michigan teams anyway?
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, every time, every single time.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, oh yeah.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, absolutely, that's what we do.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_04: We watch the three Michigan ACNL teams and we sit on that sideline hour and a half up the road, right?
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_04: But yeah, that's that's how it works.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's like the joke that I hear from parents is like, why are we traveling three states away to play RB team or something like that, you know?
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_04: But yeah, but and like I said, it it's not to say one's right and one's wrong, because there's we get so many great players from that event, right?
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_04: Like there's there are so many good players, so many good games.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_04: It's just yeah, you've got to find what's right for you.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_04: And we found a lot of success with the local kids and and also those local kids like to come to campus too.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_04: That's a way that they can get an early, you know, step on campus, meet the coaches, meet the team, those kind of things too, right?
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_04: Which is important on our side.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: Are you on the field at all right now for Midwest?
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_04: No.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, don't do anything on the field.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: That's good.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, yeah, I mean especially in their role, let's say.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and it was never planned, it just kinda happened.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_04: And I say I'm lucky we've got we've got a really good staff here that that do a lot and don't need much um you know, oversight every day.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_04: Like we've got people that run their programs and they try to give them as much freedom within our system and strategy that that we can that they do the on-field stuff.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_04: So yeah, it's great like that.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_04: And then like I say, Luke oversees the the director of coaching side of things.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_04: So the teams, the coaches, what that looks like.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_04: And then like I say we hired Irwin last year and the technical director also he coaches no teams.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_04: He's just a full-time technical director, which I might think we're the only club maybe in Michigan that has that.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_04: Just a full-time technical director that doesn't coach any teams.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_04: So his job is just to focus on the technical side of the game and work with coaches, work with players, um be on the field.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_04: He's on the field most nights and he's been a huge support for our coaches.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_01: Love it.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_01: How often do you go to the GA events?
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_01: Because it kind of like you can double up.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_01: You're obviously there to support Midwest, but you're also there that you can recruit.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah I try to I try try to make it whenever you can I mean it's hard because obviously you've you're managing resources on both sides, you know, at Western Michigan and here at Midwest United and we always want to send our our best staff when you go on the road at Midwest United to all the events the MLS events the GA events we want.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_04: We try to send athletic trainers, support coaches, all that stuff.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_04: So resources only go so far.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_04: And then Western Michigan the same we try to have a presence at at every event you know we we try to but you've got to obviously hand pick which ones are worth the dollars and fit in around our team too because that's a hard thing like right now in the spring there's events going on I feel like every week but we're also like playing on a weekend and we have a a team on campus you know so you've got to kind of split up who goes where and what you can get to and what you can't right?
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 23:41
  unknown: Wow.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_01: I'm still just blowing away just I keep on I keep on looking outside because I'm just looking at the fields but I mean okay how uh you as a club but as also as a college coach dealing with the age change stuff.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously the homegrown is staying with Bertie or what's the GA doing the GEA is changing everything's changing and then the and your academy teams are changing as well.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_04: So can you go into like what your thought process is of course isn't it crazy that the homegrown is staying like that almost just makes it more complicated for everybody right but no I mean our staff have done a nice job they've um they've led it within each program I mean obviously the the nice thing this time what I felt is last time when the change happened it was super scary for everybody right and the kids and the families are all freaked out by it.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_04: And it was harder because I felt personally at least I struggled to get behind the reasoning.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_04: You know I'd be like well it's gonna help our national team one day is what they say which it really hasn't and you know that doesn't affect our kids in Midwest United right like they they don't maybe there's 0.1% of them that care about that.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_04: So that was the reason I think the nice thing this time is the reasoning is to assist better with college recruiting and to put kids in a better social environment which is what they're doing right which is the purpose of our club.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_04: So I think at least when you have those difficult conversations about why we're going back to it this year I think as a club director and our coaching staff it's a lot easier to look a parent in the eye and say like this is why you should do it.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_04: Scary and everybody's scared about it.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_04: Everybody gets new most of the it's okay I mean it'll get there by I think by the time we get to August it's all done right and everybody's okay and they'll realize that it's going to be good for everybody in the long run I think.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_01: After their first event or their tournament or or their first couple league games like oh this is okay.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah and I mean we've allowed like we've told everyone they have to play their own age group and we've allowed a little bit of flexibility because there is a little bit of flex right like if the example's always like we've got an eight year old girl who plays on a team right now with three friends that live on the same street yeah I mean they can stay on the same team right for now.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_04: And we've told them you're gonna kind of have to go your own age as you get older.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_04: But I get it right if if the three of you are best friends and you like the carpool it's like we have a little bit of flexibility to make it work.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_04: As long as it's right and the kid's good enough to play at whatever that level might be.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_04: But it's been okay with us.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_04: I mean we're we're weirdly like 75% through triouts right now, right?
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_04: As strange as that is but um it's been okay you know I know I know it's wild in it but it's been okay like we haven't really had much kickback.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_04: There hasn't been many issues the issues that were there have been dealt with I think and yeah it's it's gone well I think.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_01: Why did that change?
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_01: Why did why did is it because of the age change or is it because of girls high school soccer that for some reason I I don't you know so it's been my take is it's been weird because in Michigan we've been such a strictly ran state by the state association for so long.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_04: Which everyone will complain about but I actually think it brings some like real governance that a lot of other states don't have so I'll tell you what New York doesn't have any governance.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_01: I got there and I was like what in the world am I where am I?
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_04: Well welcome to New York now because I think that's where we're getting in it but but I think people are going to regret it right I think people have have complained at the state for so long about the trial system which again we can probably talk all week about pros and cons of tryout systems but I've always hated a tryout system because like a club our size you you run a two hour tryout and you've got to try and select who's fits where it's impossible right so like when we joined the DA and we've been in these other platforms like the ID session system is much better for new players right to be able to come in trial get placed in the right place but now it's just flipped the other way and it's the full Wild West with no restrictions.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_04: So like anyone can do anything at any time and again for us it's been fine because we're in a market not like Detroit where there's not any other really like big doggy dog over there.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah I mean over here we've got we've got some really good little community clubs that that develop great players um but we don't have anyone with like full platform systems like we have and I think the the track record of college soccer and that stuff that we have in the USL platforms for us it's it's a pretty unique one that we don't deal with a lot of those things that the Eastsiders do.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_04: But it's been good for us.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_04: I mean I I think I know I I read somewhere yesterday some people giving some flack about how crazy it is that people are doing tryouts in March but I'm like we've always done girls tryouts in March just because they go after high school so you have to do them last week otherwise high school tryout starts.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_04: So the last few years we've always done girls high school and like yeah is it gonna make for like a little bit of an awkward spring for some people if like one or two kids get moved down a team yeah but like that's gonna be awkward anyway whether you do I mean the the guy who I heard complaining about it was like we won't be doing our tryouts until April I'm like it's the same awkward in April right it's like yeah whenever you do it it's gonna make that same you know discussion and same feelings for those players which is just life in it I mean there's no way to avoid that we put the kids in the right places and we deal with it right and that's that's how it goes you communicate the right ways right now you've got we figured when we met as a as a leadership group we figured whether we do it now or we do it in June we're gonna have some difficult conversations there's a lot of difficult conversations with the age group change like it is going to be more chaos this year than it's ever been so it's like do we start managing the chaos in March and know that we've got time to put bubble players in train environments and figure it out as they grow or do we wait till June and do it in a day and we figured doing it in March was uh allowed our staff to get ahead of it and you know spend more time on the players that need more time you know do your GA girls play high school yeah okay yeah and we offer like we offer a spring program for the ones that don't um but where we have we have one high school team here and that's a change we never used to obviously in the old DA days but what do you mean what do you mean you only have one high school team so we have like one high school girls team that just plays here and they play um they play like a showcase schedule and they play games and then they're and it could be four different age groups obviously yeah I think it's a you it's a 2010 team this year now okay actually our older girls um have just dropped into boys teams so we have like five or six like top girls that didn't want to play high school that's my favorite thing that like I love that.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_04: Do they play in games or do they just for the most part they're not they're just training.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_04: But the nice thing we have is we also have a USLW team that starts in May.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_04: So really like it's spring break what for two weeks somehow these days um in April right they're gonna do like we'd take a two week break and then you get back and you've got like two weeks of training and then the USLW team starts.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_04: So those older girls it's a natural progression they train with boys March and April and then in May they drop into the USLW team with all the college kids when they get back so so it works.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_04: It's it's a good spring plan for them.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_04: It's different but it works yeah we we have one girl right now in our 2012s and if you've seen her player London Spencer she she plays full time with the boys and she's a special player.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah she's uh been killing it on the MLS team so wow yeah there's a few girls in the MLS next that you know are playing and it's unique though innit because most of them don't want to do it.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_04: You know they they say they want to do it and then when it gets there it's weird right or it's socially strange or it's but like London has embraced it and she's she's gone next level this year for sure.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_01: What age group is she playing now in MLS Next?
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_04: 2012.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_04: 2012 so yeah I'll have to come out and watch yeah you do you do you gotta check her out she's a a unique one for sure yeah I think I personally think that that is the best way that's the best pathway to pro for a female.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_04: Like look at Chloe De Ricketts yeah right she was with the Tigers and played with the boys forever and then she spent a year or two with Jags and then boom you know I think it's it's a balance in it I always think I always tell the parents like I think and who knows what's wrong right it's different for every player but I think it's a balance between finding a comfortable environment that you feel like safe and you feel like you have fun and you can be the best player and you can score the goals you can be the leader and a really uncomfortable environment and you've got to find I think you've got to find a a line in between those two.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_04: You can't have one or the other right because if you just are uncomfortable all the time like you probably don't love the game right and if if you see it's got to be a balance that's what I think like London creates that right like she's in this uncomfortable boys full-time environment that's hard and it's weird and you know for a 13 14 year old kid that's a strange environment every day but it's uncomfortable and it pushes her and then she drops in every now and then and like plays with the 2012 girls just to stay connected with her friends and her classmates and that I think when you have that balance like Chloe had and some others I think it's it's great right do you think it's harder for her to get used to playing with boys or is it harder for the boys to get used to playing with her you know I mean I I don't want to pretend like I've been there a lot because I haven't I've watched her play a few times this year I think it was a big like a big change for her in the game because at her own age at a girls game you naturally can like do a lot of things and dominate physically right just because if you're a bit faster than everybody else and you're stronger than everybody else you can find that and then every team might be double teaming you so you've got to find a way to solve that problem.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_04: But I think when you go to the boys side teams aren't double teaming you anymore but the game's quicker the boys make faster decisions for wrong or for right generally everybody moves a little bit quicker um so she's still physical being able to like have that physical side of the game but I think the speed of the game and the speed of decisions is a little bit faster too the aggression side of it.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_04: So you know she's had to really work on that and she's become a much better player outside of just picking up the ball and dribbling you know I mean like I think that's that's the big space that you've got to improve in absolutely yeah it's fun though you should get out and watch a play show and she'll play with our USL team in the summer too and uh yeah it's a fun one.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_04: Really USLW yeah what are you what's what are you guys on the men's side USL two yeah how many USL2 men's teams are there in Michigan right now I should know but five or six it's it's a great league great league really really good every team is good too the travel isn't too much which is awesome.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_04: Right as you know you've been in those summer leagues where like we used to do it in the old days and you'd have like eight hour drives and nobody wants to do that in the summertime.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_04: So yeah it's I that USL on both sides right now USLW USL two is the quality is so high and the games are so regional for those kids it's uh it's a lot of fun yeah and we do it as like a we allow we don't charge we're one of the only teams we don't charge people to come to the games so it's just free and open out here for maybe for our club to come and watch which is which is fun right yeah it's good we had make some good home game days for sure.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_01: That's I mean I'm just comparing I've always compared Buffalo to the size and scope of Grand Rapids because the population is the same.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_01: And the amount of snow is that similar to right you used to that one of my best friends just moved out to Grand Rapids and I'm like you enjoying this yet he's lived in like Florida and Denver and California and then he's like you know what I'm gonna come home and he's in Grand Rapids and he gets a snowstorm and then like four hours later he'll text me he's like did you get it yet it sucks.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_04: It's been crazy this winter I didn't think about that.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah this winter just off the lake it's been wild man we've we've had too much snow I I was just up at a boys' trip up in Charlevoy and or Boeing City or whatever and we got that they got four feet in the UP yeah yeah and we got hit with that if we left uh like an hour later I'd probably still be up there and I would have had a cancel we we have that um we have a branch up there in Potosky NMFC and those guys were sending me some pictures and like four feet it's not like last week right it's it was Sunday it started Sunday and it ended Monday still stupid but uh but yeah the size and and I always thought about that Grand Rapids crew team and it's like why can't Buffalo recreate that there and is it because of the proximity from Detroit and Chicago or how many teams are there there?
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_04: Are there a bunch of clubs there or not?
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_04: No so the Flash we have one ECNL team and they're on the ECNL boys ECNL girls and then an hour uh east is RY an hour and a half east is RY and that is it for those what I've always said about West Michigan and Grand Rapids is we're a unique spot and what I've loved about it and this is through no doing of my own or maybe even anyone before me but we're a big enough city that we've got some really good players really good athletes but we're not big enough that I don't think we'll ever and if we do it'll be a problem have like two big clubs you know like we've got one like if you're a serious soccer player like you play at Midwest United so it's it's nice for the most part and that's why like those teams if where we've had like teams that have competed in the national level we had a girls group that won a few national championships right after them when we get all of the players from this area West Michigan the best 12 15 16 players we can really compete for the very top level you know and I think the nice thing is as long as we have one really big club here that that the top players get to eventually you have that system.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_04: Whereas I think in the big cities it's very hard to do that.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_04: But you still have it right like in Detroit when all of the top players go to one club whichever one it is for that age group exactly it's amazing right I mean you have such a high level team but I think it's easier for us to do that here at this level like not the same level obviously the the player population is a tenth the size over here but I think it's easier for us to get the most committed and like minded players together than maybe some of the big cities have because you got so many different people.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_04: But I mean the other thing we have here too is you know you got stuck in traffic this morning and it was what eight minutes like you can get from one side of town over there to this side of town in 15 minutes.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_04: It's that helps.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_01: That's like the running joke in Buffalo it's like you get anywhere in 20 minutes.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah same way it's kind of true.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_04: Whereas in Detroit like if you're on one side of the city you kind of probably play for that club right because I think I texted you I was like I just said a traffic jam I don't know if I'm gonna be there and it's like oh okay well and then it's normal like with some of the kids we recruit in Chicago area like it's so normal over there that everybody just drives 90 minutes to practice because that's what they do.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_04: You pick your club if you're playing at Rockford or you're playing at wherever it might be it's a 90 minute drive because that's just what it is over there, right?
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_04: Everything's an hour so it's it's normal.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_01: I mean here we don't we don't battle that too much you know yeah do you okay how many kids in the club I mean this is going to be a hard question but how many do you get any from Chicago?
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_04: No we no we have like we have quite a population come from like northern Michigan like Travis City Potosky way just because we're the easiest drive for them.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_04: What is that uh two hours maybe yeah two two hours to Traverse City three hours to like Potosky area somewhere so we have a the nice thing is with the club up there we now have like some options that you can be in our club and train up there one day a week so that helps that helps a lot and we have the same kind of population come from like northern Indiana like that northern Indiana area it's kind of a split whether you come to us or you go down to Indy.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_04: So we're right in the middle.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_04: So we have a few kids that come here it's an easier drive right if you coming this way and avoiding the major city I think is a little bit easier logistically for a lot of families.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_01: That's how it is in like eerie Pennsylvania kids where they can either go to the flash or they go to like Cleveland Force.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_04: So yeah we like that so we have a we have a good kind of right up and down 131 we have like you know a lot of kids this side of Lanson that again don't want to make the Detroit drive or come this way too and yeah so it's a it's a nice um footprint of players.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_01: When you guys uh at Midwest do co uh parent education on college recruiting do you kind of head that as a or is it kind of hard in your position to do that for the club with your role at Western Michigan obviously?
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah I think it's it's hard I mean I try not to I I try to step out of it um just because I think we've got a lot of good people I mean and we've just hired some other people you met Mario this morning who's overseeing our girls college recruiting Luke oversees our boys between him and Cam.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_04: They coach all the kids they're very connected in that world so you know I don't really need to much I mean obviously I have some relationships with families that have been in the club a long time and you know them and they might bump into you on a field and ask you a question but but for the most part you try to stay out of it so the programs can kind of run themselves.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_04: I did I did an event with with Rudy and the Girls Academy a couple of teams a few weeks ago but but yeah for the most part I try to leave that to them and obviously we're here if I think my connection with Western Michigan what it does for me selfishly and which is able to help the club is I think it keeps you connected and keeps you up to date with what's going on in that world because that's hard sometimes because as you know the college game is changing at like a crazy tempo that we don't really know what's coming in a month or two months you know and uh I feel like every month something is changing so it's it's nice to kind of stay somewhat connected with that and know how recruiting rules are changing and trends are changing and what that's looking like on the inside for players.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_01: Let's talk about college I mean I want to talk about um Aquinas and NAIA and stuff because that's where you were before Western right I want to talk about that but what is going on with college sports?
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_01: I mean it's kind of scary.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah yeah I don't know I don't I mean my personal opinions are there but I I guess they always sound like an old school guy when you like take the money out of it and keep it pure.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_04: I think it's such a college athletics is such a pure unique system in this country.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah um and I think the money kind of can ruin it a little bit in my opinion but but it's there right we ain't changing it.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_04: So you know the football players rightly or wrongly are getting gonna continue to get paid what they're getting paid which will have a trickle down effect on everything else.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_04: So yeah I don't know I mean it who knows what's gonna happen right it's I mean you've seen already with the roster limits and the money and not all the changes to a are negative and scary right some are some are great right more money for female athletes in some programs right I mean in in my program we've got an athletic director that's very supportive of of soccer you know and he values the game of soccer and supports our men's program sports our women's program we've got a men's program that is booming and and they almost lost it when I was playing in college we I actually played against Western and they almost closed it down and then they and then they won the uh I guess was it the Mac then?
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_01: No they don't have Mac on the men's what does what does the men's play in right now they play in the Missouri Valley.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah and they were gonna get rid of it but then they won.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_04: They're like well okay we're gonna kick this around a great alumni support and you know a beautiful facility and yeah so so we're in a unique spot as a mid-major I think um but yeah who knows man I mean it's what I think is happening is it's obviously limiting some roster spots at Division I has happened in the last year.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_04: That's inevitable to see the trickle down of that but it's also in some teams it's injecting more funds, injecting more resources at some level which is also going to have a trickle down effect on everyone I think.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_04: And I don't think yet we've seen like I know some people are scared of like programs being cut and those kind of things.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_04: I don't think we've seen that yet and I don't again I don't know if it's gonna happen in the next year.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_04: No we haven't right talk about the twenty eight
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: Player role, do you make uh do you like it at all?
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_01: Because sometimes I feel like it will it does make life a little bit easier after a couple of years.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_01: Because how long does it take your players to send them an email to a college coach?
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_01: How long would it take to send them an 100?
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_01: This is what they have 100 with anything narrative.
• 44:24
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• 44:32
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• 44:42
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• 44:55
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• 45:01
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• 45:05
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• 45:12
  SPEAKER_01: Well, how is it gonna make it easier?
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_01: I don't even know.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I like yeah, I I just think it's easier to build relationships with 28 versus 40, like Mercyhurst or something like that.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I mean, I think it's hard for those schools.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_04: Like for us, the the challenging part for us is we've always built our programs, and this maybe came from Aquinas, and then we brought it in at Western, in that like, we'll be the school that will take a late player at any time if it's the right player and we'll deal with it.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_04: So my first year there, we had 32 players on the roster.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_04: Then I think we got to 33 one year, but it was always like the right player showed up in July, and we were just like, what a unique situation, let's go.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_04: So I think it's limiting that from happening, which we've had a lot of success with that, so that's hard.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but honestly, what it's done in the short term, and I tell this story in our program, is like when I started, we would always look at what, seven or eight players in a class, typically, just general math, right?
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_04: Where now we've kind of set a policy this year for 27, we got four and just four, and we're not looking for a fifth, we're just we're just going with four, and then so it kind of makes recruiting a little bit simpler, easier.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_04: It depends how you look at it, because it's easier in that we only need four, but it's harder to take a chance on a kid that you've got to be like that if just give me two years with her and then she's gonna pop.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_04: Well, the easy thing with a class of ten is you take ten and you know that four are gonna hit.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_04: I always say three or four you've got to be really right on.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_04: You know that three you're gonna be wrong on, and then it's whatever that middle group does.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_04: That's how I used to define classes.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_04: Now we're taking four.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_04: So like you've got to hit.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_04: We can't miss on two, right?
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_04: If we miss on two in a class of four, we're in big trouble, you know.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_04: So it's you've got to be much more specific.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_04: You've got to now it's the same for everyone, or at least most teams, right?
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_04: I don't think many teams are recruiting ten anymore.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_04: So maybe a western Michigan, as an example, we're able to recruit a class of player that maybe we weren't able to get as much before.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_04: But again, we're we're taking four.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_04: So yeah, I think that's that's the deal, right?
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_04: So it's easier and that you only need four, but it's harder that we can no longer be like, Well, we're not sure on that one, let's just roll with it.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_04: It doesn't happen anymore, right?
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_04: You can't have those kids on a roster because you have too many of them and uh we're in trouble, you know.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um back to the uh NAIA stuff.
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_01: I was gonna have Scott uh Dole on from Madonna.
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_01: Uh but we had to reschedule for next week.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_01: So and I'm I kind of want to just expose the NAIA level, especially on the women's side, because I mean we lose Sienna Heights and stuff uh like that.
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like the NAIA and the JUCO is always the men's path sometimes.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_01: And the girls kind of have the D1 or bust mentality.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_01: How hard was it to recruit for Aquinas in NAIA?
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, so I might be, I think I'm I'm a pretty unique one in the in the Aquinas world where I was, because Aquinas was such a a unique and an amazing place when I was there with it.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_04: Like, you know, if you've been there, it's it's a small private campus, but it's beautiful.
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_04: It's downtown Grand Rapids.
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_04: So a lot of these NAIA campuses are like middle of nowhere.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_04: You know, like you gotta drive three hours to find a town, a city, or a gas station, right?
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_04: Like we were in Grand Rapids at the time we were really well funded, so it's expensive, you know.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_04: Small private schools, like 50, 55 grand.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_04: But but we were well funded in athletics, so we could get competitive with a lot of D2, and we we'd be recruiting with some Division I schools.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so we were able to get that caliber of player, and our players loved it.
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, we were able to compete, we were winning conferences, competing at national level um in NAIA, and the national level in NAIA was was so good, like so different to Division I.
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_04: But when you get to those like top eight, top ten, top twenty teams, like so many great international players and and different players, but um, yeah, it was really, really good.
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_04: So it's it's a unique one.
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_04: I know there's from what I hear and read, there's some maybe a few more struggles in that level right now, just with funding.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_04: And like you say, you've seen schools just staying.
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_04: There's another one, yeah, I think this year.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_04: So I think some of those small schools are hurting a little bit in that area.
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_04: So I think that that might hurt it a little bit, but I mean when you go like down south and you deal with some of the international based programs down there, like wow, there's some real players there for sure.
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, we had at West End, we took um we got Abby Worthman.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_04: I don't know if you knew her, she came from Madonna.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, and she played three years with us and and she's a phenomenal player.
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, phenomenal player.
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_01: Are they gonna get rid of the okay, so the JUCO rule where that doesn't count against your eligibility?
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_00: Are they gonna do that in the in AI?
• 50:05
  SPEAKER_01: In AI I don't know.
• 50:07
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 50:07
  SPEAKER_01: I haven't heard in because somebody uh some I I heard You would think so, right?
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_04: If they did it last year, you'd think it would keep going, but yeah, I don't know.
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_01: I think that would help.
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_01: I mean of course it helps on the men's side because on the men's side, talk about Wild Wild West, the men's side is crazy.
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_04: Well, I think that in my vision, and and I don't watch it every week, obviously, and don't pretend to be an expert in it, but I think on the men's side too, it's it's harder to jump on a good Division I roster and play as an 18-year-old, right?
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_04: Whereas I think on the girls' side, if you're good enough, there's it's it's more doable, right?
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_04: Not say it's easy, it's still it's getting harder, you know, when you look at that top level for sure.
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_04: Like at my level, I think if you're a top freshman, like we brought in four freshmen this semester, and like I expect all of them to be pushing for that spot, right?
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_04: They they should be.
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_04: Whereas I think on the men's side, it's really hard to do that in it as a 17, 18-year-old, and that's where I think like the JUCO pathway, the NAIA pathway is a great one to get an extra year of development because those kids are still developing, man.
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_04: They are you know 18, 19.
• 51:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's that's what I've told like almost everybody is take a gap year on the boy's side, take a gap year, yeah, you know, or go the JUCO route if you'd really want the D1 experience.
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_04: Well, in our club, we have Mario, we met, he's now the new Aquinas coach.
• 51:27
  SPEAKER_04: He just took that job two weeks ago.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_04: So he's an Aquinas, and then Luke, our director of coaching, is the Aquinas men's coach.
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_04: So we have a really good connection there.
• 51:35
  SPEAKER_04: We actually try to both of them, yeah, yeah.
• 51:38
  SPEAKER_04: They both do a great job, and and Luke's done a really good job with that.
• 51:41
  SPEAKER_04: Like any like maybe Midwest United players who like they're real high-level players, but it's hard to go from being a top MLS player to Western Michigan to Michigan State, right, to that level of play.
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_04: So he's been able to bridge some some great gaps, I think, with like some of those players going there or going to JUCO's.
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_04: We've got a really good pipeline and connection with Sagnar Valley and and the guys up there.
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_04: So we've had some uh some different pathways for our men, um, but all the work, right?
• 52:07
  SPEAKER_01: Do you when you're recruiting or looking at a player, do you see this is gonna take her two years?
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_01: Or she's gonna pop right away.
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_01: How hard is that to kind of plan out their career and do you communicate it to them of what you see?
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_01: Because I see a lot of girls that get frustrated within their first year or two if they're not on the field, and then that's when they jump into the portal and everything, and then the coaches are devastated.
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, don't I don't want you to leave because I had such good plans for you.
• 52:44
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 52:45
  SPEAKER_04: Well, I think that's another thing, right?
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_04: With the with the roster limit and the transfer portal, yeah.
• 52:49
  SPEAKER_04: We're we're in, and I'm I've only been in division one for four years, so I I've only really lived in the we must win now world, which is what it's been for four years, right?
• 53:00
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 53:01
  SPEAKER_04: Like my idea isn't waiting for four years for us to develop players and get there eventually, right?
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_04: It's like with the transfer portal, you're expected to compete, right?
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_04: And not to say you've got to win every game and every year in college, but that's the goal.
• 53:15
  SPEAKER_04: And I think gone are the days that you get three or four years to build your program and build your culture.
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_01: Just wait till you get all of my recruits.
• 53:24
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 53:24
  SPEAKER_04: I just think it doesn't happen, right?
• 53:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I mean look at what happened with Indiana football.
• 53:28
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right, two years and you just turn it over just because it's transparent.
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_04: Well, you know, we're we're year four, we're getting all of our players, and now I'm like, just doesn't work like that anymore.
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_04: It doesn't in any sport, right?
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_04: Like and especially like when when RD at at Western they they backed us when we went in to like roll over the roster.
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_04: So it's like anyone that like wasn't a good fit for what we were doing and what we were trying to do, and type of players, the type of people that we wanted, we like told them at the end of the year nicely, like you need to find somewhere else to go, you know.
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_04: Not the old days where you're there for four years guaranteed.
• 53:59
  SPEAKER_04: Like, so I think when they're backing you to make those decisions, which is just where college athletics is going, and bring in three new players, four new players for the transfer portal, then they also have a right to say, like, well, you should be winning right now, right?
• 54:13
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, that's that's kind of how it works.
• 54:14
  SPEAKER_04: So, yeah, I mean, I I think I'll tell you, like, in my four years, we've never sat down with a kid in a family and said, like, listen, you're gonna be great here in three years' time.
• 54:24
  SPEAKER_04: I don't think anyone wants to hear that, right?
• 54:25
  SPEAKER_04: I don't think anyone wants to go to college and be like, I'm gonna sit on the bench for two years and grind and then I'll get there.
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_04: And maybe that's how the game has changed, you know.
• 54:33
  SPEAKER_04: So the the top freshmen that we've recruited, we we expect them to come in and and compete, you know.
• 54:38
  SPEAKER_04: Now, maybe there's unique ones if you're a centre-back and you've got two senior centre backs playing in front of you, like you've got to be real for that, right?
• 54:46
  SPEAKER_04: That's happened to us the last couple of years, or a goalkeeper is a very unique one, right?
• 54:49
  SPEAKER_04: Like, you know, if you're going into a team and you've got a starting goalkeeper in front of you who's ahead of you, you probably sit a couple, but I think for the most part, like field players, you've got to find a way to be in the plans, right?
• 55:01
  SPEAKER_04: Otherwise, in this day and age, you gotta look at some other options, you know.
• 55:05
  SPEAKER_01: In your first year at Western, did you hit the transfer portal uh uh hard, like like most first year coaches do?
• 55:14
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I think I think our first year we had maybe seven or eight players that we'd asked to leave or signal to find somewhere else, and we helped them go somewhere else, which was important, but like they all found good homes, like Division II homes, division three homes, um, subdivision one homes, which was good, but but yeah, then we were able to bring in five or six new players that came in right away and impact.
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_01: And how hard was that like transition from NAIA to D1?
• 55:42
  SPEAKER_01: And now you're trying to hit the portal, and you're like, Because does NAIA have access to the portal?
• 55:48
  SPEAKER_04: They didn't back then.
• 55:49
  SPEAKER_04: I don't know if they do that.
• 55:50
  SPEAKER_04: I don't think they do.
• 55:51
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, they didn't when I was in it.
• 55:52
  SPEAKER_04: Um yeah, Paul was new, but but you know, we've always used like me and my staff, we've always used like connections as probably the just talk to coaches, yeah.
• 56:04
  SPEAKER_04: You know, people uh you know, Dougie Steinhardt is always my east side guy, he knows every player and every position and their home address and um what foot they kick it with and everything.
• 56:13
  SPEAKER_04: So like you got people like that, right, who you trust and you know you build those relationships on people.
• 56:19
  SPEAKER_04: So yeah, for sure.
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_04: And that helps.
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_04: But yeah, it was definitely a little bit different.
• 56:22
  SPEAKER_04: But we did um like we had two players that were committed to Aquinas who came with us and played at Western and played big, big, huge roles.
• 56:30
  SPEAKER_04: So like the level, I would say the level between like who was playing on my Aquinas team and who's playing at Western wasn't that different.
• 56:37
  SPEAKER_04: The the difference in level was player 25 to 28, 20 or 28, right?
• 56:43
  SPEAKER_04: At Western, that player is is really good.
• 56:45
  SPEAKER_04: Uh NAIA it never was, you know, it was a big drop-off from player 11 to the the next group was huge, you know.
• 56:53
  SPEAKER_04: In division one, I think everybody's good, you know, everybody's fast, everybody's athletic.
• 56:57
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 56:58
  SPEAKER_01: So the success that you've had at Western, what is that four in a row?
• 57:04
  SPEAKER_01: Four four regular seasons in a row, and then how many uh tournaments in a row?
• 57:10
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's three in a row.
• 57:11
  SPEAKER_01: Three in a row and then two tournaments.
• 57:14
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 57:14
  SPEAKER_01: How I was watching uh Miami last night in the basketball tournament, you know?
• 57:20
  SPEAKER_01: That's cool, uh yeah.
• 57:22
  SPEAKER_01: But they're in the play-in game.
• 57:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they're 31 and one, and they didn't get an automatic bid for a regular season.
• 57:31
  SPEAKER_01: I get I get annoyed in women's soccer when the regular season isn't a automatic bid to the tournament.
• 57:39
  SPEAKER_01: That's crazy.
• 57:40
  SPEAKER_01: Is is that frustrating for you?
• 57:42
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, only one spot for a Mac.
• 57:46
  SPEAKER_04: I grew up in England, so I'm you know, the our regular we all know as soccer people, the regular season.
• 57:52
  SPEAKER_04: I was telling my team, the regular season is the one you want to win, because that's the best team wins a regular season.
• 57:57
  SPEAKER_04: The tournament, you don't have to be the best team, especially in as ball.
• 58:00
  SPEAKER_04: Where bounces happen, you've got to be lucky.
• 58:02
  SPEAKER_04: Like um, so yeah, I I mean I bring it up every year.
• 58:05
  SPEAKER_04: I'm like, guys, can we not ever have like the regular season champion go to the tournament?
• 58:10
  SPEAKER_04: And everyone laughs at me, which is fair.
• 58:12
  SPEAKER_04: You know, it's it's the American system, isn't it?
• 58:14
  SPEAKER_04: And and I get it, it's fun, man.
• 58:15
  SPEAKER_04: It's it's it's exciting.
• 58:17
  SPEAKER_01: It makes an 18-game season uh pointless.
• 58:20
  SPEAKER_01: You could go 18-0 and not make the tournament.
• 58:22
  SPEAKER_04: I bring it up, my staff laugh at me when I tell them, but but they're just like it's the way it goes.
• 58:26
  SPEAKER_04: I I think it's just the it's the DNA of American sports, right?
• 58:29
  SPEAKER_04: And American college sports, especially.
• 58:31
  SPEAKER_04: And and it is fun, right?
• 58:32
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, don't go wrong, a tournament is is awesome.
• 58:35
  SPEAKER_04: And and there's something to be said too, for you've got to, and that's what we've done.
• 58:38
  SPEAKER_04: Like, we lost the first tournament, right?
• 58:40
  SPEAKER_04: So we won the first regular season and then lost in the tournament.
• 58:43
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and then we went away, and like there's things that you have to add to your team to be a tournament team.
• 58:47
  SPEAKER_04: You know, you can be a regular season team, you can be the best team, you just gotta be the best soccer team.
• 58:51
  SPEAKER_04: I think to win a tournament, you've got to have uh some different attributes, you know.
• 58:55
  SPEAKER_04: So to try and design both is um within one group, is it's hard, you know.
• 59:00
  SPEAKER_04: I think we've been able to do it the last couple of years.
• 59:01
  SPEAKER_04: That team we've had the last couple of years has been good enough to win the regular season, but has also been built with like a tournament mentality that you've got to show up that day and yeah, you don't always have to be great, you know, to win a tournament.
• 59:12
  SPEAKER_04: You've just got to find a way to be better than the other guys.
• 59:16
  SPEAKER_01: Would you say that like the season is more about your depth and then the tournament is more just about like just being killers?
• 59:26
  SPEAKER_04: I think so.
• 59:26
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I th I think tournament is so much about mindset.
• 59:29
  SPEAKER_04: You know, I think like regular season, if I go back to like that first year when we won the regular season, we were the best team and we had great soccer players, and we knew that over 12 games we were we were the best.
• 59:40
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but what we weren't was like we didn't deal with the pressure well, we didn't get up for the extra one, we didn't have that, and we that's why we slipped up, no, no two ways about it.
• 59:50
  SPEAKER_04: So I think you're able to go away and work on that, and also we did some recruiting to like bring in some people that I knew would like have a little bit more of bite in that moment, point proof, right?
• 59:59
  SPEAKER_04: We needed that underdog tournament mentality, which is hard to have too when you win the regular season, right?
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_04: It's hard to turn around and be be an underdog.
• 1:00:06
  SPEAKER_01: You have a target on your back every year, yeah.
• 1:00:08
  SPEAKER_04: So we we we worked on it and we tried, and like I say, it's it's certainly not science, is it?
• 1:00:12
  SPEAKER_04: It's it's hard, but uh but I thought this year in a tournament that we won was a great example of it is that we won the regular season and we felt we were the best team all season, but then we went in the tournament and we won like every game, just an ugly one-nil, you know.
• 1:00:24
  SPEAKER_04: And the year before we won it like five-nil and five of the teams we played against Buffalo, actually, and we we put in like perfect performance.
• 1:00:31
  SPEAKER_04: This year, like we were just scrappy and just like hard to play against.
• 1:00:34
  SPEAKER_04: But almost I'd say we felt as a team maybe more confident this year, just because that's the DNA of the team, you know.
• 1:00:39
  SPEAKER_04: We're like we didn't give up sloppy goals, we didn't make many mistakes in areas that would hurt us, and we always knew that like we'd find ways over the line if it went over time or penalties, like we we had a good confidence in those areas, which which I think you've got to try to have, right?
• 1:00:55
  SPEAKER_04: That's and that's the fun of the tournament thing, too.
• 1:00:57
  SPEAKER_04: I I get it.
• 1:00:58
  SPEAKER_04: It's like when you get there, that's that's fun for the kids and it's fun for uh fun for the game, isn't it?
• 1:01:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:01:03
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, we're all tuning into that basketball tournament right now, right?
• 1:01:06
  SPEAKER_04: I guess absolutely if it was just regular seasons over and Michigan wins it all, it'd be like that was pretty boring, wouldn't it?
• 1:01:13
  SPEAKER_01: That's gotta be hard for you to say.
• 1:01:15
  SPEAKER_04: It is, yeah, it is, it is for sure.
• 1:01:18
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I mean And also my basketball knowledge, I don't even think they're the top team, are they?
• 1:01:22
  SPEAKER_04: So I'm not an expert.
• 1:01:24
  SPEAKER_01: No, not they aren't right now.
• 1:01:25
  SPEAKER_01: I think Duke is like number one or the top over all.
• 1:01:30
  SPEAKER_01: I think okay, on the men's side, well, I guess it's not Mac, but Akron can win a men's national title.
• 1:01:39
  SPEAKER_01: I think I asked Andy uh Stutz this from Ball State.
• 1:01:44
  SPEAKER_01: Do you ever see a Mac team being able to win a women's national title?
• 1:01:52
  SPEAKER_04: So my leadership uh in the program believes that you can.
• 1:01:58
  SPEAKER_04: And I think I think that's great.
• 1:02:00
  SPEAKER_04: And I think we believe that you can, right?
• 1:02:01
  SPEAKER_04: I think there's the great thing in the game of soccer is you can't say that like a Mac team couldn't beat that team.
• 1:02:10
  SPEAKER_03: Correct.
• 1:02:10
  SPEAKER_04: They can.
• 1:02:11
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah now.
• 1:02:12
  SPEAKER_04: Is it gonna happen?
• 1:02:13
  SPEAKER_04: Would you bet on it?
• 1:02:14
  SPEAKER_04: Probably not, right?
• 1:02:15
  SPEAKER_04: But like it can happen, you know.
• 1:02:16
  SPEAKER_04: I think that's the thing.
• 1:02:17
  SPEAKER_04: I think in men's it's it's more likely.
• 1:02:19
  SPEAKER_04: I think there's less teams and there's less power four teams that have much more resources than than we do.
• 1:02:25
  SPEAKER_04: That's why you see was it Vermont and and Marshall.
• 1:02:28
  SPEAKER_04: And I would I mean, I think Western Michigan can do it.
• 1:02:30
  SPEAKER_04: I think they they're really close to it.
• 1:02:32
  SPEAKER_04: Um but yeah, I mean I think the women's side is harder because you do have a gap in resources.
• 1:02:37
  SPEAKER_04: Um but listen, that's that's the game, man.
• 1:02:39
  SPEAKER_04: And our game.
• 1:02:40
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, our hockey team won a national championship last year, right?
• 1:02:42
  SPEAKER_04: It's um it's doable, I think, if the right people are around and and those things happen.
• 1:02:48
  SPEAKER_04: That's what's fun about the game.
• 1:02:49
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 1:02:50
  SPEAKER_01: I mean what's your what's your season like right now?
• 1:02:53
  SPEAKER_01: Because you're in the 20 hours, and then and you have session tonight.
• 1:03:00
  SPEAKER_01: Go into the tournament that you guys are doing with what is it?
• 1:03:03
  SPEAKER_01: Grand uh Grand Valley's the only division two, I believe, and then it's you guys, Eastern, all all the Mac schools in Michigan, and then all the big 10 schools.
• 1:03:13
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:03:13
  SPEAKER_01: Is Oakland in it?
• 1:03:14
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, so it it came about like we actually spearheaded it and we're like, you know, you play these spring seasons, you get five games, and you know, we always take them pretty competitively just because we're big believers that like we play soccer to win.
• 1:03:27
  SPEAKER_04: So like, even if it's a spring friendly, you're still trying to win, right?
• 1:03:30
  SPEAKER_04: Whether we're playing against Aquinas or we're playing against Michigan, we're still like the result matters, and that's why you play.
• 1:03:35
  SPEAKER_04: Now it's not the be-all and end all in the spring, but that's the reason that you play.
• 1:03:39
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and some teams don't take it that way, right?
• 1:03:41
  SPEAKER_04: Some teams like don't even keep scoring the spring, they're just like practice games, which I personally don't believe in, but that's what we were finding.
• 1:03:47
  SPEAKER_04: And then the kids like I think our players they want something competitive because they like to compete, they love to compete at the weekend, right?
• 1:03:53
  SPEAKER_01: So they're sick of kicking each other, yeah.
• 1:03:55
  SPEAKER_04: So we were like, if we put this together and we create this Michigan Spring Cup, it puts Michigan, Michigan State, us, bowling green, central Michigan, eastern Michigan, Oakland, Grand Valley.
• 1:04:07
  SPEAKER_04: It gives you two pods of four that are kind of natural.
• 1:04:10
  SPEAKER_04: Um, you get your three games from it.
• 1:04:12
  SPEAKER_04: You can choose to be as competitive as you want in them.
• 1:04:14
  SPEAKER_04: If you want to just take them as friendlies and lose them all, you can.
• 1:04:17
  SPEAKER_04: But at the end of the day, if it if it's a draw, it goes to Panley Shootout.
• 1:04:20
  SPEAKER_04: So you get a winner and a loser who'll keep stand-ins, and then the top two teams from each group play each other in a final.
• 1:04:26
  SPEAKER_04: And Michigan State are going to host the final in Lanson.
• 1:04:29
  SPEAKER_03: Love it.
• 1:04:29
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, April 11, I think it is.
• 1:04:31
  SPEAKER_04: So yeah, I think it'll be fun.
• 1:04:32
  SPEAKER_04: And we got a trophy, and like there'll be a Michigan Spring Cup champion at the end of it that you can celebrate it or you can not celebrate it if you win it, it's completely up to you.
• 1:04:41
  SPEAKER_04: But I think it'll be fun, and I think it's good for the players who want it and need it, and then it's also like an area in the spring where right now kids can't go watch a college soccer game, at least of any meaning, you know.
• 1:04:52
  SPEAKER_04: And I think the idea is there's a chance that maybe April 11 you've got two really good Division I teams playing for a trophy, free access for everybody.
• 1:05:01
  SPEAKER_04: It's a cool thing, right?
• 1:05:02
  SPEAKER_01: Cool Michigan, Miss Michigan State playing in the spring, which would never happen in other years.
• 1:05:08
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and hopefully it's not.
• 1:05:09
  SPEAKER_04: Hopefully it's us, but we'll uh yeah, we'll see.
• 1:05:11
  SPEAKER_04: But yeah, it could be, and that that's it's gonna be two good teams, right?
• 1:05:13
  SPEAKER_04: No matter what, it's gonna be two two good teams, and then again, kids can go watch that, right?
• 1:05:18
  SPEAKER_04: And it's it's an opportunity if you don't have a game that day.
• 1:05:20
  SPEAKER_04: You can go out and watch some college soccer, and I think it's a cool thing.
• 1:05:23
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, we'll see how it goes.
• 1:05:24
  SPEAKER_01: We've never done it before, so uh one of the bad things about the 28, and Buffalo's been hit by this uh a few years, is in the spring season, they don't have enough to train a lot.
• 1:05:38
  SPEAKER_01: They certainly cannot play 11 v11.
• 1:05:40
  SPEAKER_01: They have to, they would call in alumni to come in and play so that they can get 11 v11.
• 1:05:48
  SPEAKER_01: Do you guys go through that as well?
• 1:05:50
  SPEAKER_01: Where it's like, okay, well, we lost these two to the uh transfer portal, these two are injured, and then these five just graduated.
• 1:05:58
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:05:59
  SPEAKER_04: It hopped.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_04: But I mean we've never had it to that extent.
• 1:06:02
  SPEAKER_04: Like we're down.
• 1:06:03
  SPEAKER_04: We graduated a pretty big class this year, but you know, we also brought in eight.
• 1:06:07
  SPEAKER_04: We brought in four freshmen early and four transfers.
• 1:06:09
  SPEAKER_04: So, like, you know, we're at like 22, 23 right now.
• 1:06:12
  SPEAKER_04: So I mean, and we've never had it to that extent.
• 1:06:15
  SPEAKER_04: And I think as the roster cycle gets going, I can't imagine teams are gonna get to that extent.
• 1:06:20
  SPEAKER_04: And if you are, it's usually if teams are are struggling for numbers, it's usually like a coaching change or a gap like that, right?
• 1:06:26
  SPEAKER_04: That can really hit you if if a coach leaves on the winter break and you don't have a coach until summer, that's usually where you see like spring, you might have 12 players, right?
• 1:06:34
  SPEAKER_04: That could be a problem, but no, we've been okay with it.
• 1:06:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:06:38
  SPEAKER_01: How do you I've always I've been so far removed from the college game for the most part, is how do you construct your roster?
• 1:06:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like if you're going to recruiting uh let's say you're working on the 2027 class or 2028, you might be on the 28th by now.
• 1:07:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um what do you go for need or do you go for whoa, that the the talent?
• 1:07:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:07:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like, okay, we have a graduating center back, we're gonna have to fill this position.
• 1:07:16
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:07:17
  SPEAKER_04: I always think it's it's two, maybe it's three things for us, right?
• 1:07:20
  SPEAKER_04: Like, number one is the need.
• 1:07:22
  SPEAKER_04: So you know, like if you need a center back, you need a goalkeeper, you need a center.
• 1:07:26
  SPEAKER_04: Need first.
• 1:07:26
  SPEAKER_04: Need has to be like, what do we need?
• 1:07:28
  SPEAKER_04: But it's hard because right now you're right, we're starting on a 28 class.
• 1:07:32
  SPEAKER_04: So like that seems like it's like 10 years away, doesn't it?
• 1:07:35
  SPEAKER_04: But it's uh and it is a long time away, right?
• 1:07:37
  SPEAKER_04: It's like we don't know who's injured, who's developed, who comes by then.
• 1:07:41
  SPEAKER_04: But anyway, you go by need, and and we try and recruit the spine for the most part, right?
• 1:07:45
  SPEAKER_04: Because I'm a believer that like if we recruit the spine right, we can slide those players outside when needed.
• 1:07:52
  SPEAKER_04: Exactly.
• 1:07:52
  SPEAKER_04: So more versatile, they could play multiple positions.
• 1:07:54
  SPEAKER_04: I think so.
• 1:07:55
  SPEAKER_04: I think so.
• 1:07:56
  SPEAKER_04: And then um, and then second is I think we're always just looking for somebody that's gonna level us up, you know, like whatever that means, right?
• 1:08:04
  SPEAKER_04: Like we're looking for somebody that's too good for our level that can that can help us win the tournament.
• 1:08:08
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, well, and I tell our kids that, right?
• 1:08:09
  SPEAKER_04: That the most frustrating thing I ever get is when you call somebody, you talk to some of these club guys, and they're like, you should recruit this player, she's a Mac player, or she's a western Michigan player.
• 1:08:19
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm like, What is that?
• 1:08:21
  SPEAKER_04: What's a Western Michigan player?
• 1:08:22
  SPEAKER_04: Have you seen us play?
• 1:08:22
  SPEAKER_04: Like, it does it up, and if if she is, that's probably not the kid that we want to recruit, right?
• 1:08:27
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, no kid has got no coaches out there going, like, yeah, I want to recruit a kid that's gonna fit in like right in the middle or the bottom half of my roster, right?
• 1:08:34
  SPEAKER_04: Like that.
• 1:08:34
  SPEAKER_04: So as soon as it was like, oh, that's a Mac player, it's like, well, that's not gonna work, right?
• 1:08:38
  SPEAKER_04: Like, no Mac team is gonna be out going, oh, she makes us average, right?
• 1:08:41
  SPEAKER_04: Like that doesn't happen.
• 1:08:42
  SPEAKER_04: So we're looking for like players that have have skills, attributes, tendencies that that are too good for our team that that are gonna level us up in an area, right?
• 1:08:51
  SPEAKER_04: And we we try to find the one area that someone's gonna make us better.
• 1:08:54
  SPEAKER_04: And then I think the third thing is we're still big, and I don't know if everybody is, but we're still big on like we want kids that really want to be a part of it, you know, whatever that is.
• 1:09:03
  SPEAKER_04: Want to be a part of our vision on a soccer field, want to be a part of Western Michigan as a school, want to be a part of Kalamazoo, a part of this community, like that's big, that means a lot, and that that I think is why we haven't had many players or any players that we've wanted leaving.
• 1:09:17
  SPEAKER_04: You know, you get players that are in, they commit more, they have more fun, they they're more motivated.
• 1:09:22
  SPEAKER_04: So I'd say those are our three kind of guiding principles for it.
• 1:09:25
  SPEAKER_01: How does a kid show you that they want to be a part of it while they're not here yet?
• 1:09:30
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, there's usually a story, you know.
• 1:09:31
  SPEAKER_04: I tell people like, I mean, I like to think that story isn't made up.
• 1:09:35
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but like we've had a couple in our class, right?
• 1:09:37
  SPEAKER_04: Like we've had a couple, if I go through like a whole 27 class, we got a kid from Rockford who who turned down a bunch of big power four schools, and when she was going through the process, she was looking at everybody, but loved the way we play, loved our people, felt like she could be really successful.
• 1:09:52
  SPEAKER_04: That team and told us that from day one, and and that excited us.
• 1:09:55
  SPEAKER_04: We've got we got a kid uh from the hawks actually who is uh a defender who wants to go into aviation.
• 1:10:01
  SPEAKER_04: We're one of the top aviation schools.
• 1:10:03
  SPEAKER_04: I know for a fact she wants to be at Western Michigan, right?
• 1:10:05
  SPEAKER_04: She loves the soccer side, she loves the school side, she's excited.
• 1:10:08
  SPEAKER_04: So like everyone's story is a little bit different, but you've got to almost sell me on like why do you want to be here?
• 1:10:15
  SPEAKER_04: And it's not the same for everybody because sometimes you end up bidding with you know these big schools that they're looking at everybody and they don't want to be at West Michigan.
• 1:10:22
  SPEAKER_04: But I think when you find the right ones that that really do, um that's that's what we're all looking for, right?
• 1:10:28
  SPEAKER_04: It doesn't always exist with every player, but I just think there's got to be some kind of story, right?
• 1:10:32
  SPEAKER_04: Maybe the the kid from Plymouth Rain, it's she came from a Bronco type family, right?
• 1:10:35
  SPEAKER_04: I think one of the parents had been there and there was a connection and they were excited to get back on campus, and and that, you know, the the um Hawks player we've got, like grandfather was in the Hall of Fame uh at Weston.
• 1:10:47
  SPEAKER_04: So like it was a there's a family connection, yeah.
• 1:10:49
  SPEAKER_04: So I think those things are always like really unique and you're always looking for that, right?
• 1:10:54
  SPEAKER_04: It just means a little bit more.
• 1:10:55
  SPEAKER_01: What about what what's the best first point of contact uh from a recruit that you didn't have eyes on first?
• 1:11:05
  SPEAKER_01: So uh so is it is it an email?
• 1:11:08
  SPEAKER_01: Is it just coming to camp?
• 1:11:10
  SPEAKER_04: Like what it's I always think there's gotta be uh there's probably not one answer for me.
• 1:11:15
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, you know, I I mean we're I know where we rack up on the totem pole, and we don't read all of the emails because you get too many of them, right?
• 1:11:24
  SPEAKER_04: You just don't you have days where like you just delete, delete, delete, or you it misses it.
• 1:11:28
  SPEAKER_04: And again, I like to think my assistant, a recruiting coordinator, adds everyone in the right way, but there's too many, right?
• 1:11:33
  SPEAKER_04: And there's too many that you imagine they come from all over the place, right?
• 1:11:36
  SPEAKER_04: Right mum and dad in freaking whichever state they're in that are emailing every school in the country.
• 1:11:41
  SPEAKER_04: It's like you have so many, so email is is a tough one.
• 1:11:44
  SPEAKER_04: I always think if you do email and we don't know you, again, there has to be a story, right?
• 1:11:48
  SPEAKER_04: The story will catch you.
• 1:11:49
  SPEAKER_04: Like, are you a national, you're an ECNL national level player, right?
• 1:11:54
  SPEAKER_04: Like that might catch you right away.
• 1:11:55
  SPEAKER_04: If it's uh played in there, whatever those national selection games are, that usually means you're you're the best player in that club.
• 1:12:01
  SPEAKER_04: So we're always interested in that.
• 1:12:02
  SPEAKER_04: I think if there's any like personal connection again, like like that one, I want to study aviation.
• 1:12:06
  SPEAKER_04: I want to my family's from Kalamazoo, you're my number one school, like those are things I think that catch attention there.
• 1:12:14
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, we do a lot, like I said, we do a lot of recruiting through through networks, so it's who's your club director, who's your coach?
• 1:12:20
  SPEAKER_04: If a coach picks up the phone and talks to you, that usually means something, right?
• 1:12:24
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, it doesn't always mean everything.
• 1:12:26
  SPEAKER_01: Those connections with other coaches and club coaches and uh other college coaches, how how it's big, yeah, it's big.
• 1:12:34
  SPEAKER_04: But you know, you know, Jason, it it's not like you take all of them.
• 1:12:37
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, I I won't name them, but there's a few people, even in this state, that I will never take a player from because they've already burnt me or burnt other people, right?
• 1:12:45
  SPEAKER_04: With like this player's amazing, and you should never do do your research just off what a coach says, anyway.
• 1:12:50
  SPEAKER_04: But when that coach is looking at me saying, Oh, this player's amazing, this player's amazing, this player's amazing, and and they're not, right?
• 1:12:56
  SPEAKER_04: They're just lying to you to try to get their players placed in the right places, um, you lose respect pretty quick too.
• 1:13:01
  SPEAKER_04: So it kind of hurt that way.
• 1:13:02
  SPEAKER_04: But but it means a lot.
• 1:13:03
  SPEAKER_04: I've got a again, we have a handful of people that we trust, you know, and and again, you'd never take a player from a coach and just follow it blindly, but like of course, there's there's leads that you trust, right?
• 1:13:13
  SPEAKER_04: And you know these guys don't lie, they don't oversell what this player can do, what this player can't do.
• 1:13:19
  SPEAKER_04: That's important to me as well.
• 1:13:20
  SPEAKER_01: I I learned that from uh Demir when I was when I was with Fardar, I assisted him uh and that's what he would say.
• 1:13:29
  SPEAKER_01: He's like, I'm not gonna go to bat for you just for you to screw me over in my relationship with this coach.
• 1:13:36
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and and at first I I didn't know if that was true, but in my last 10 years, I'm like, oh, that is definitely true, because a lot of clubs don't do anything to help with the recruiting because they want to have a good reputation.
• 1:13:52
  SPEAKER_01: Because you're one bad recruit away from that coach, never recruiting from your club again, and that gives the club a bad look.
• 1:13:59
  SPEAKER_01: Or if you're constantly, as a club, you constantly have college players in the transfer portal.
• 1:14:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's a stat that some people are trying to track.
• 1:14:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, especially in Western New York, they are doing that, and it's it's bad.
• 1:14:13
  SPEAKER_04: Well, then you can't.
• 1:14:14
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, I know you've had a few on there, like you can't expect these club directors, as much as I know they try, to also know every team, right?
• 1:14:21
  SPEAKER_04: Know every game.
• 1:14:22
  SPEAKER_04: And I can tell you, like, in the Mac, what is it, 12 teams now, they're all completely different.
• 1:14:27
  SPEAKER_04: And and not a bad thing.
• 1:14:28
  SPEAKER_04: Like, there are kids that will like go in and play at in Western Michigan, I'd say that we're a very unique style of play, right?
• 1:14:34
  SPEAKER_04: Like we're really fast tempo, um, we're really transitional, like we play a very, very fast attack in brand of soccer.
• 1:14:40
  SPEAKER_04: There's a lot of teams that build out all the time to a fault.
• 1:14:43
  SPEAKER_04: Two Miami, Ohio, who put the ball in the box every time they get it, right?
• 1:14:47
  SPEAKER_04: So like the player that would fit there, so for the club director that says, oh, that's a Mac player, that's completely different.
• 1:14:53
  SPEAKER_04: You know what I mean?
• 1:14:53
  SPEAKER_04: Like, you need three different players in those three teams that like will look completely different, right?
• 1:14:58
  SPEAKER_04: There's a Miami player that like wouldn't fit in ours.
• 1:15:00
  SPEAKER_04: There's Western players that wouldn't be able to drop into a I don't know, who's the example, like bowling green, right?
• 1:15:07
  SPEAKER_04: To play out the back all the time.
• 1:15:08
  SPEAKER_04: There's some of my players that have won everything, been all conference players that wouldn't fit in that team, and vice versa, you know what I mean?
• 1:15:13
  SPEAKER_04: So I just think for a club director, too, to be able to pick up the phone and say, like, Lewis, this player's you, that's not their responsibility.
• 1:15:19
  SPEAKER_04: Like, you've got to say, what is this player good at?
• 1:15:21
  SPEAKER_04: What is she not good at?
• 1:15:22
  SPEAKER_04: What's her ceiling, right?
• 1:15:23
  SPEAKER_04: That's what we're all trying to figure out.
• 1:15:24
  SPEAKER_04: Where is she gonna get to in three years' time?
• 1:15:27
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and then the rest of it is on you to figure out, right?
• 1:15:29
  SPEAKER_04: And I I tell our staff, and our staff do a good job at Midwest United of that too.
• 1:15:32
  SPEAKER_04: Like Rudy and his staff is like, don't lie to these people, you know, don't get on the phone and tell the college coach that she's gonna be amazing, because you don't know that, right?
• 1:15:40
  SPEAKER_04: There's still two years to go.
• 1:15:41
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, she might quit by then, right?
• 1:15:42
  SPEAKER_04: She might not invest, she might not.
• 1:15:44
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, you can tell them what you know about them, and then the college coach has to figure out like if it fits into their game model, their style of what their team's trying to do, and that's that's what matters, I think, right?
• 1:15:54
  SPEAKER_01: How important is it that kids at Midwest, when they're looking at schools, they watch the games and see if they fit in that style of play.
• 1:16:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because one of my girls that's at Arkansas, she brought that up and she was on the podcast, and and she brought that up.
• 1:16:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, yes, a thousand percent yes, because she's like, I don't want to build out of the back.
• 1:16:17
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to like work on like I don't want to do juggling tests and training, I want to run.
• 1:16:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and the at the C, you've got to be able to run and you gotta be at Arkansas, you gotta be tall.
• 1:16:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, she's and you've got to be wired a certain way.
• 1:16:35
  SPEAKER_04: Six foot.
• 1:16:35
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, you gotta be wired a certain way to play in that team, too.
• 1:16:38
  SPEAKER_04: But I I always laugh though at the kids are like it's about winning, right?
• 1:16:41
  SPEAKER_04: Youth soccer is all about winning, and they grow up in the whole youth career to win, and then they go and commit to like a powerful team that hasn't won more than three games in the last ten years, you know.
• 1:16:50
  SPEAKER_04: And you're like, when it really becomes about winning, like you're guaranteed to lose in that place, right?
• 1:16:54
  SPEAKER_04: Just because the level is so high and you're in a conference with North Carolina, like you're gonna lose, right?
• 1:17:00
  SPEAKER_04: Good luck.
• 1:17:00
  SPEAKER_04: I know I always think that's funny, but but I I agree, man.
• 1:17:03
  SPEAKER_04: I think watching the game is massive.
• 1:17:05
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and not you know, nobody does, right?
• 1:17:07
  SPEAKER_04: Not not enough people do.
• 1:17:08
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but but when the people do, I think it fits.
• 1:17:11
  SPEAKER_04: Because I mean, we're lucky here in West Michigan, right?
• 1:17:13
  SPEAKER_04: Like we've got Western Michigan down the road, we've got a bunch of great D3 schools, NAIS schools, and we've got Grand Valley 15 minutes up the road, too.
• 1:17:20
  SPEAKER_04: So like you want to like play good soccer and you want to compete in national championships.
• 1:17:24
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, over the years, we've had a lot of top Midwest United players have gone Grand Valley, you know, and then went to Quinas and like places like that, just because it's a lot of these people they they want to compete like that, you know, and that's important.
• 1:17:36
  SPEAKER_04: Some right, some wrong, but I think it's uh it's not a uniform straight to one level for everybody, is it?
• 1:17:41
  SPEAKER_04: And all good players, it's not a straight shoot to get to one space, right?
• 1:17:46
  SPEAKER_01: We'll start like to wrap this up.
• 1:17:48
  SPEAKER_01: But uh, you just lost your assistant coach, right?
• 1:17:51
  SPEAKER_01: To Central?
• 1:17:52
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:17:53
  SPEAKER_04: Sorry, I forgot about him there.
• 1:17:54
  SPEAKER_04: I tried to I try to delete him out of my mind as much as I can now, you know.
• 1:17:57
  SPEAKER_04: That's that's how that works.
• 1:17:59
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, no, it's it's great.
• 1:18:00
  SPEAKER_04: It's great.
• 1:18:01
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, go into that.
• 1:18:03
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, how long was he with you?
• 1:18:06
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it was a weird one.
• 1:18:07
  SPEAKER_04: Um and and you should chat with him.
• 1:18:09
  SPEAKER_04: He's a he's a great guy and great coach.
• 1:18:11
  SPEAKER_04: Um but so he took over.
• 1:18:13
  SPEAKER_04: I've known him a long, long time.
• 1:18:14
  SPEAKER_04: We're from similar towns in England.
• 1:18:16
  SPEAKER_04: So when I left Aquinas, he was a pretty like he was a men's assistant and a friend um at Aquinas, so we kind of vouched for him and and pushed him what that's worth to get that job, and they did amazing things there.
• 1:18:29
  SPEAKER_04: He took over that program at Aquinas, I think really added his own flavour, and things had a load of success there.
• 1:18:36
  SPEAKER_04: And then, like I alluded to, I think some of the challenges at that smaller level in budgets and resources and the frustrations that you deal with, I think maybe got a little bit too much for him.
• 1:18:46
  SPEAKER_04: I think he he was always looking to get in a division one game.
• 1:18:49
  SPEAKER_04: I think he went pretty close in a couple of interviews and fell out to the old you don't have division one experience um bit at the end.
• 1:18:57
  SPEAKER_04: Did you go through that?
• 1:18:58
  SPEAKER_04: No, I didn't.
• 1:18:59
  SPEAKER_04: I had a pretty unique one though.
• 1:19:00
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, just being down the road.
• 1:19:01
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, but that was something I mean, I guess my AD had uh had to vouch for.
• 1:19:05
  SPEAKER_04: But no, I didn't, and I never like went through the process much with it either.
• 1:19:09
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but he did, and then so he wanted the experience, and he came to me last year and was like, I want to come and be a part-time assistant for you to get some experience, and it looks like fun.
• 1:19:18
  SPEAKER_04: And can I?
• 1:19:19
  SPEAKER_04: I'm like, hell yeah, you know, of course you can.
• 1:19:21
  SPEAKER_04: And he brought the head coach experience and added a huge personality into our coaching room and and benefited our team so much, and such a good, good guy and a great coach.
• 1:19:32
  SPEAKER_04: So I think we we reaped some big rewards from him last year with our staff, both as a program, and I think our staff got better as well.
• 1:19:39
  SPEAKER_04: And I figured we'd get him for a couple of years, and then when the the central job opened up, it was yeah, it was too much of a home run for him.
• 1:19:46
  SPEAKER_04: I think he uh it's closer to home for him.
• 1:19:48
  SPEAKER_04: He lives in the Lanson area, and okay, and it's a great job that that central one for him.
• 1:19:52
  SPEAKER_04: I think it's uh it's the next step, and and he'll do great things, and it's a good place.
• 1:19:56
  SPEAKER_04: And then ironically, our first spring game since he's left is against Central on Sunday.
• 1:20:01
  SPEAKER_04: So it'll be fun, and it's uh I know our girls are looking forward to it.
• 1:20:04
  SPEAKER_04: They've been planning all of the uh all the different crap they can talk to him from the bench and from the field.
• 1:20:10
  SPEAKER_04: So it should be a should be a fun day with lots of chirping at each other, I think.
• 1:20:13
  SPEAKER_01: How do you build your staff?
• 1:20:14
  SPEAKER_01: Uh well what do you do?
• 1:20:16
  SPEAKER_01: You want a goalkeeper, you want a rec uh trainer, you want a a uh recruiting coordinator, you want somebody that does the day-to-day stuff that you no coach wants to do mostly.
• 1:20:27
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah, we we're different, man.
• 1:20:29
  SPEAKER_04: I think we've we've been pretty unique in that like my staff's been with me for a few years.
• 1:20:33
  SPEAKER_04: Like I've got Nate Van Rijn, who's a goalkeeper coach, recruiting coordinator, much more than a regular goalkeeper coach.
• 1:20:39
  SPEAKER_04: He doesn't just train the goalkeepers, he he trains the goalkeepers and oversees them and does an amazing job, but he's also like got his hands in everything.
• 1:20:47
  SPEAKER_04: I think he's like a head coach, goalkeeper coach basically.
• 1:20:50
  SPEAKER_04: He hasn't wanted to be a head coach, like he's had some opportunities and he's had some opportunities to go to big, big schools, and I think he's he's enjoyed what we do.
• 1:20:57
  SPEAKER_04: I think he enjoys the challenge.
• 1:20:58
  SPEAKER_04: He's got family here in West Michigan too, so he's a West Michigan guy.
• 1:21:01
  SPEAKER_04: So, you know, we've had him and and his role has just kind of evolved, and that he now he's been with me long enough from Aquinas here that he he knows the day-to-day, does everything with us and um does a really good job in the recruiting networks as well.
• 1:21:14
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and then we were we were very lucky three years ago we we added Paige Eli, who was the head coach at Davenport University.
• 1:21:22
  SPEAKER_04: So I've known Paige a long time, and Paige is one of the best to that's right here, too.
• 1:21:26
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, one of the best on-field coaches you'll you'll work with, and a great person.
• 1:21:31
  SPEAKER_04: And I think she'd been head coach at Davenport, same thing, dealing with the the challenges of Division II and NAIA type schools, the cutting resources, the headaches that you have as a head coach at a smaller school without the back end, without the resources we have at Division I level.
• 1:21:48
  SPEAKER_04: And I think I think Paige kind of got to a point where she was getting annoyed with not coaching soccer as much and all the other things.
• 1:21:56
  SPEAKER_04: And doing everything else, being an administrator.
• 1:21:59
  SPEAKER_04: So her deal in coming into our programme was like, I try to design a role where she gets to coach soccer, right?
• 1:22:05
  SPEAKER_04: Which, as you know, not many of us college coaches get to do that too much, you know, with everything else.
• 1:22:09
  SPEAKER_04: So Paige takes the lead there, and she's awesome.
• 1:22:12
  SPEAKER_04: She she's very, very good on the field.
• 1:22:13
  SPEAKER_04: She's obviously got really good head coach experience, uh, helps with everything else, and that's how we kind of work as a staff.
• 1:22:20
  SPEAKER_04: And then we've actually replaced um James DeCosmo with uh with a player that just graduated this year, Maddie Canada.
• 1:22:26
  SPEAKER_04: Um she graduated this this fall and she's coming back in the in the fall to get into coaching.
• 1:22:32
  SPEAKER_04: So she's gonna be a really new um new to coaching, but uh holding mid, holding mid play center back a little bit as well.
• 1:22:39
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, but she'll be she'll be great, and she she brings a new perspective to our staff and uh we'll round it out right and has been around, been a big part of the success that we've had the last three years.
• 1:22:48
  SPEAKER_01: So how do you how important do you think that is?
• 1:22:51
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's it's like hey, I've been through it.
• 1:22:54
  SPEAKER_01: I this is how it goes.
• 1:22:56
  SPEAKER_01: Just trust the process.
• 1:22:58
  SPEAKER_04: Honestly, Jay, ask me in a year, right?
• 1:22:59
  SPEAKER_04: Because we'll see, because I've never done it before.
• 1:23:01
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, I know here in the club, like we've tried to bring in some people that graduated and it's been fun.
• 1:23:07
  SPEAKER_04: You know, it's always nice when you have kids that go through the process, come back and coach because it's awesome.
• 1:23:12
  SPEAKER_04: Um I hope so.
• 1:23:13
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, I think Maddie's got like she's been through it, she's sat in the chair, she's failed, she's succeeded, she's been a big part of everything.
• 1:23:20
  SPEAKER_04: She grew up in Hawks, so like she's done it all at the club level as well.
• 1:23:25
  SPEAKER_04: So, like, I I I think I think it can be great.
• 1:23:27
  SPEAKER_04: She's a great person, which is really important too, and she wants to learn, and she really wants to be a coach, which is really important when you're 22 years old.
• 1:23:36
  SPEAKER_03: So I don't know.
• 1:23:37
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, that everything I tell myself says she's gonna be great, but we'll see in in a year, you know, and see how that goes.
• 1:23:44
  SPEAKER_04: But I I think she'll give us in our coaching room, she'll give us a different perspective on things, right?
• 1:23:48
  SPEAKER_04: Because I think she'll naturally be able to tell us I think she'll look at the beginning from a player's point of view and she'll be in that transition which we all went through, right?
• 1:23:57
  SPEAKER_04: From a player to a coach, which which will be unique and I'm looking forward to it.
• 1:24:02
  SPEAKER_01: Last question uh why girls?
• 1:24:05
  SPEAKER_01: Why uh why on the girls' side and not on the boys side?
• 1:24:09
  SPEAKER_04: So for me, there was there was never a plan to it.
• 1:24:12
  SPEAKER_04: I just fell into it.
• 1:24:13
  SPEAKER_04: I uh yeah, here I was actually coaching the team.
• 1:24:16
  SPEAKER_04: So I got into coaching boys, I actually coached that team with Remco Bergsner.
• 1:24:19
  SPEAKER_04: So Remco Bergsner is a coach.
• 1:24:21
  SPEAKER_04: He's still in town.
• 1:24:22
  SPEAKER_04: He uh is he still coaching?
• 1:24:24
  SPEAKER_04: No, no, he's uh runs a huge furniture company and uh yeah I see him quite a bit.
• 1:24:28
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, he's still around, he's a big supporter of of the club and uh he's around.
• 1:24:31
  SPEAKER_04: I was his assistant.
• 1:24:32
  SPEAKER_04: You coached that team?
• 1:24:33
  SPEAKER_04: I was his assistant, so he actually I learned a lot from that guy.
• 1:24:36
  SPEAKER_01: What what year what year was that?
• 1:24:40
  SPEAKER_01: Do you remember?
• 1:24:41
  SPEAKER_04: No, no, two.
• 1:24:42
  SPEAKER_01: He had a team, a two thousands.
• 1:24:46
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, that was Eric Connery and those boys, right?
• 1:24:48
  SPEAKER_04: The young ones, Caden Jack.
• 1:24:50
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:24:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and uh my team, my little like Lobos team, beat uh Lobos Wizards.
• 1:24:58
  SPEAKER_01: We beat them.
• 1:24:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it was a tournament out here, or maybe it was the Jags tournament, and he was so mad at me.
• 1:25:05
  SPEAKER_01: And we knew each other because of the the older boys that we you know, the Conneries and stuff.
• 1:25:10
  SPEAKER_01: And he got mad so mad at me.
• 1:25:14
  SPEAKER_01: He could get mad on a good day.
• 1:25:15
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, he was you know, when I first moved here, I started working with him, and he was um he had he taught me a lot, man.
• 1:25:22
  SPEAKER_04: I'd had a lot of really good things, and uh that team working with that team every day, and he did a lot of that, right?
• 1:25:27
  SPEAKER_04: A lot of that team success came from like his personality and his drive, and he's such a an elitist um in the way that he trains and the way that he coaches.
• 1:25:35
  SPEAKER_04: Absolutely.
• 1:25:35
  SPEAKER_04: I took a lot from him for sure, I still do.
• 1:25:37
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but yeah, he's around.
• 1:25:39
  SPEAKER_04: So I got into boys, then I was coaching them, and then from there I coached our 99 girls, which was a really good team, and then the 2000 girls, and then I actually was coaching with um GRFC in the old like MPSL.
• 1:25:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:25:51
  SPEAKER_04: Remember when that was a thing down here, and I had a huge following, and uh, so I was on the men's side there, and then I coached the women's team, and then I just kind of fell into the women's side, and that was it.
• 1:26:01
  SPEAKER_04: Before long, I was like coaching three teams, and um, yeah, I've liked it, man.
• 1:26:05
  SPEAKER_04: It's it's it's different, right?
• 1:26:06
  SPEAKER_04: I I miss the men's game, like coaching it, but nice thing is here I get to stay connected with it, and like our USL2 team, and even at Western Michigan, I regularly like go sit in on the men's practices and just watch and support it, and I'm very connected with it.
• 1:26:21
  SPEAKER_04: So I I like my world that I live in both, but you know, I've I've just fallen into it on the women's side and I've enjoyed it.
• 1:26:27
  SPEAKER_04: There's a lot of a lot of big strengths there, you know.
• 1:26:29
  SPEAKER_04: Of course.
• 1:26:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:26:31
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
• 1:26:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, this is fun.
• 1:26:33
  SPEAKER_04: Thanks for thanks for being here.
• 1:26:34
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for the tour.
• 1:26:36
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, this I'm still blown away.
• 1:26:38
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't know.
• 1:26:39
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't know.
• 1:26:40
  SPEAKER_01: I I I never knew why more clubs don't do this.
• 1:26:44
  SPEAKER_01: And the importance of having your own facility is massive because of the costs.
• 1:26:49
  SPEAKER_04: Why don't they, do you think?
• 1:26:51
  SPEAKER_04: Like on the east side where everybody rents fields, why why does nobody do this, do you think?
• 1:26:56
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 1:26:58
  SPEAKER_01: Stop paying other people when you could be paying yourself, but you'll have the complete control over your own facility.
• 1:27:08
  SPEAKER_01: But uh it it's ridiculous when they just all they do is rent it out because they have to make ends meet.
• 1:27:14
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's part of it.
• 1:27:15
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe at least in Buffalo, the clubs aren't big enough to support it because they maybe only have a thousand kids and not two thousand, three thousand, four thousand.
• 1:27:28
  SPEAKER_01: But I think there's uh there's ways.
• 1:27:30
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think fundraising is real?
• 1:27:33
  SPEAKER_01: Like uh you would know.
• 1:27:34
  SPEAKER_01: Or is fundraising or is uh sponsorships, does that go a long way?
• 1:27:40
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't really go that far.
• 1:27:42
  SPEAKER_04: No, I d I mean I think in in managing our budget here is like you know, the the lion's share of what we we're a non profit, right?
• 1:27:51
  SPEAKER_04: So we're also that's different to a lot of other clubs, right?
• 1:27:54
  SPEAKER_04: The for profit LLC clubs where yeah, one guy owns a thing and you're making those decisions based sometimes on And depending on how big or small you are on mortgage payments and what you do as a business, right?
• 1:28:04
  SPEAKER_04: I don't have to do that.
• 1:28:05
  SPEAKER_04: So like we we've got a board of directors and we're a well-established non-profit organization.
• 1:28:10
  SPEAKER_04: So there's negatives to that, and that you know, me or whoever else is in charge, you don't own it, you don't, you know, generate the the wealth and the the responsibility over time from it.
• 1:28:21
  SPEAKER_04: But it's also like I love the positives that like this isn't my club, right?
• 1:28:26
  SPEAKER_04: I just serve in the seat right now and oversee things and report to the board, and when I leave, someone else will step in that seat.
• 1:28:32
  SPEAKER_04: I think that's a great thing in like youth soccer because it keeps us honest and it it allows you to make your decisions and my board to make decisions on what's best for the club, not what's best for me or my leaders, right?
• 1:28:43
  SPEAKER_04: It's it's that's where we are as a club, and I think that might make it a little bit easier for us.
• 1:28:47
  SPEAKER_04: So we are able to say, like, investing this little bit of money is better off going into this facility because that's going to serve the club for the next five years, right?
• 1:28:56
  SPEAKER_04: Which which it's done.
• 1:28:57
  SPEAKER_04: So maybe there's that side of it.
• 1:28:59
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but back to your budget question, like the lion's share of our income and the budget comes from still from player dues and what they do.
• 1:29:06
  SPEAKER_04: So it's allocating the right amounts of that to go into the facility side of it, right?
• 1:29:11
  SPEAKER_04: But I just think what we all pay in rentals, if you rent universities, you rent high schools, it it's done.
• 1:29:17
  SPEAKER_04: It's just a lot of work.
• 1:29:18
  SPEAKER_04: Takes a lot of good people too, though, right?
• 1:29:19
  SPEAKER_04: Like we're we're lucky, we've got, I mean, you've seen them around here, we've got a lot of good people, you know.
• 1:29:24
  SPEAKER_04: We've got people that manage facilities, people that keep them looking nice, people that deal with uh the problems that you have when you own facilities, and and we've got those people and um a few of them, and and that helps, you know.
• 1:29:35
  SPEAKER_01: I was at uh B, am I B license, C license?
• 1:29:39
  SPEAKER_01: Years and years ago.
• 1:29:40
  SPEAKER_01: And um the topic came up of club development.
• 1:29:45
  SPEAKER_01: And they said okay, uh they they listed off a bunch of things like staff, um training rooms, facility um methodologies and stuff like that.
• 1:29:58
  SPEAKER_01: And they wanted us to rank them.
• 1:30:00
  SPEAKER_01: And everybody put facility last.
• 1:30:03
  SPEAKER_01: And he's like, guys, you're all you all got this wrong.
• 1:30:07
  SPEAKER_01: Facility needs to come first because the staff comes and goes, it's always changing.
• 1:30:12
  SPEAKER_01: And if you're a 5013 C, don't you have to have a board?
• 1:30:16
  SPEAKER_01: You have to have a board that you answer to, and a lot of soccer people don't like boards.
• 1:30:21
  SPEAKER_01: So but the facility comes first.
• 1:30:25
  SPEAKER_01: Build the facility first, then that will that will take away a lot of headaches.
• 1:30:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I am gonna have somebody on the podcast that I just met with this past week, and they said that there are there are clubs on the east side that are basically buying up every single hour of all the facilities and locking them out, but they're not even using it sometimes.
• 1:30:51
  SPEAKER_01: They'll pay and they'll and they'll offer like, hey, this is normally five seventy or eight hundred dollars.
• 1:30:59
  SPEAKER_01: We'll give you a thousand to not rent to them.
• 1:31:03
  unknown: Yeah.
• 1:31:04
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like saying in it.
• 1:31:06
  SPEAKER_01: Ooh, this is a little bit different than Western New York.
• 1:31:08
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, well, I think that you know there's two things ahead of what you talked about.
• 1:31:11
  SPEAKER_04: It's like facilities in West Michigan, and probably Michigan and Western New York as well, is so important as well because we know we get a lot of snow and we get a lot of crap weather in the winter.
• 1:31:21
  SPEAKER_04: So like we have to have turf, right?
• 1:31:24
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, whether you we all know we all love grass and nobody wants to play on turf, but like we have to have turf.
• 1:31:29
  SPEAKER_04: We have to have turf.
• 1:31:29
  SPEAKER_04: We don't sock club.
• 1:31:30
  SPEAKER_04: Exactly.
• 1:31:31
  SPEAKER_04: We have to have turf.
• 1:31:32
  SPEAKER_04: So because like right now our teams are trained outside every night and it's March, right?
• 1:31:35
  SPEAKER_04: Like they have to have turf surfaces.
• 1:31:37
  SPEAKER_04: So this indoor surface, the new indoor facility we're doing the other side of town, this one, they're all turf.
• 1:31:42
  SPEAKER_04: So it means we can put teams on there, right?
• 1:31:43
  SPEAKER_04: Now, again, we've got a beautiful grass field over there, but hasn't been used in four months, you know, probably won't be used until end of April, May maybe, right?
• 1:31:51
  SPEAKER_04: So I think that the facilities piece where we are is so important, man.
• 1:31:56
  SPEAKER_04: And maybe more important than facilities might not matter as much if you're in the warmer climates where you can be outside five days a week, right?
• 1:32:04
  SPEAKER_01: That's one of the most annoying things that I have when somebody says we need to end this pay-to-play.
• 1:32:09
  SPEAKER_01: How?
• 1:32:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you can get that in the utopia of San Diego, you know, where you could just hop on a field or whatever.
• 1:32:17
  SPEAKER_01: There's a there's four feet of snow in Potaski.
• 1:32:19
  SPEAKER_01: What do you want them to do?
• 1:32:21
  SPEAKER_01: Just okay, don't play those six months.
• 1:32:24
  SPEAKER_01: And then you're so far behind.
• 1:32:26
  SPEAKER_04: When you try to end the pay-to-play, I'm like, the great, there's great parts of pay to play too, right?
• 1:32:30
  SPEAKER_04: There is this million-dollar facilities out here that kids get to use.
• 1:32:33
  SPEAKER_04: We're paying them off, but but that's it, right?
• 1:32:35
  SPEAKER_04: There's indoor facilities, there's licensed coaches, there's full-time administrators, there's film, there's access to other programming.
• 1:32:42
  SPEAKER_04: Like, you don't have that in other countries, you know.
• 1:32:43
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, like that's what pay-to-play brings.
• 1:32:46
  SPEAKER_04: So as long as we've got the money to pay it, I mean, it as long as it's done the right way, right?
• 1:32:49
  SPEAKER_04: There's there's flaws with pay-to-play, of course.
• 1:32:51
  SPEAKER_04: But and back to the board thing you mentioned, man.
• 1:32:53
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, like, a lot of people don't like a board of directors, but I think it they get a bad rep depending on who the board of directors are.
• 1:33:00
  SPEAKER_04: You know, I speak for Midwest United, like, we have an amazing board of directors.
• 1:33:04
  SPEAKER_04: We have four people, and they're all great.
• 1:33:06
  SPEAKER_04: They're all in it for the club, they all have a different background of experience.
• 1:33:12
  SPEAKER_04: They support me, they challenge me, they hold me accountable, but they don't step in every day to say this is what I want it to be, right?
• 1:33:19
  SPEAKER_04: That's they're all from different areas, different backgrounds, they're not currently like tied into the club, and and they're great.
• 1:33:25
  SPEAKER_04: That that's how a board I think is supposed to work.
• 1:33:28
  SPEAKER_04: It's a it's a group of people that hold me accountable, that hold me accountable to our strategic plan, to our mission, which is to grow the game of soccer in West Michigan.
• 1:33:37
  SPEAKER_04: And if I ever start doing things that don't align with that mission, they're able to reel me in and hold on to that, ultimately choose if they keep me along for the ride or not, or if they go a different direction, right?
• 1:33:47
  SPEAKER_04: And I think that's how a board of directors are supposed to work.
• 1:33:50
  SPEAKER_04: And and I lean on them a lot.
• 1:33:51
  SPEAKER_04: I ask them questions when we need it.
• 1:33:53
  SPEAKER_04: Um, they're they're financial responsibilities, so they they have a deep dive into financials always to make sure that the club is sustainable and the company is sustainable, which they do a great job of.
• 1:34:03
  SPEAKER_04: So again, we might be pretty unique in that area, but we've got a really good board of directors that that I you know really appreciate for sure.
• 1:34:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:34:11
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, they have to be good.
• 1:34:12
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, look at this place.
• 1:34:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's unbelievable.
• 1:34:14
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna take some video uh uh out there and whatnot and post it because people need to see this and being why can't we do something like this?
• 1:34:22
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:34:23
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, well, like I told you, I've spoken with a couple of friends in the state who've asked for some help with it and what we've done, yeah.
• 1:34:30
  SPEAKER_04: Just copy, right?
• 1:34:30
  SPEAKER_04: And we and believe me, listen, we haven't, I wouldn't say we're perfect.
• 1:34:33
  SPEAKER_04: I think I told you when it came over here, right?
• 1:34:35
  SPEAKER_04: We've learned, I've learned in the five years I've been in this role like so much, and we've made so many mistakes.
• 1:34:40
  SPEAKER_04: And like opening this indoor facility was one we've done in the last year.
• 1:34:43
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm like, if we could go back and do it again, yeah.
• 1:34:46
  SPEAKER_04: We've done things way different.
• 1:34:47
  SPEAKER_01: You learn a lot opening up your own facility.
• 1:34:49
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, but we figured it out, you know, and again, we've got good people that we've managed to you know make it through when there's been problems and and figure that piece out.
• 1:34:56
  SPEAKER_04: And again, I think we I'm happy to share the lessons we learned.
• 1:35:00
  SPEAKER_04: And I have already with some some smaller clubs over there, and I know uh there's a couple of others that want to steal those lessons to hopefully not make the same mistakes, too, you know.
• 1:35:07
  SPEAKER_01: I can't believe there's no 11v11 fields, indoor fields over here.
• 1:35:11
  unknown: I know.
• 1:35:11
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:35:12
  SPEAKER_04: We stopped pursuing it though, you know, we stopped pursuing it.
• 1:35:15
  SPEAKER_04: Um we were pretty close to it a few years ago, and then it's not on my list anymore.
• 1:35:22
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and the reason being our seasons go through mid-December and we stay outside for the most part, 90% of the time, right?
• 1:35:30
  SPEAKER_04: We put warm clothes on, we go out there under the lights.
• 1:35:33
  SPEAKER_04: Um, lights are massive as well, by the way, because it gets dark at six o'clock, so lights, lights are huge.
• 1:35:37
  SPEAKER_01: But we go out there, you don't want people driving up and just using your car lights.
• 1:35:41
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, yeah, and then the old days.
• 1:35:43
  SPEAKER_04: We were looking at it, but then we're like, our indoor season really is January, February.
• 1:35:47
  SPEAKER_04: And like as of last week, we were back outside again.
• 1:35:49
  SPEAKER_04: So we're like realistic when you map out your schedule, it ends up being like eight or nine weeks that like Midwest United players are truly playing indoor soccer, can't go outside.
• 1:35:59
  SPEAKER_04: So, like for those eight or nine weeks, like you've seen our facility here, like it's it does the job.
• 1:36:04
  SPEAKER_04: We we flip our programming, so we obviously focus on really technical stuff.
• 1:36:08
  SPEAKER_04: We do a lot of futs all as support of soccer, um, but we found like in eight or nine weeks we can do that, we do it a fraction of the price on a facility like this, and then people want to be outside again.
• 1:36:18
  SPEAKER_04: And I've just thought, like, when I've done my rounds this winter in all these facilities, you go to these 11v11 fields that they're spending 800 an hour on, and they've got 12 teams training on them.
• 1:36:28
  SPEAKER_04: So, like when you actually do the math and you look at their square footage for what each team is doing, it's not like you're seeing a team, you know, you go over there and you're seeing them playing 11v11 on it, and like there's 300 kids on the field, you know what I mean?
• 1:36:40
  SPEAKER_04: So, like they're still training in the same space as this.
• 1:36:42
  SPEAKER_04: So, I was just like, why are we trying to build a$10 million facility out here when and then as you know, a lot of those places they're all working out of business, they're all switching to owners because everyone's getting out of them.
• 1:36:53
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and then when it gets to May, do people really want to be in the Dome that works them?
• 1:36:59
  SPEAKER_04: Like, no, no, right?
• 1:37:00
  SPEAKER_04: They won't be outside.
• 1:37:01
  SPEAKER_04: And I don't know, I think it'll be nice to have, but I've always said like now, like if someone comes along and says there's ten million dollars, do it, I'm all in, right?
• 1:37:08
  SPEAKER_04: It'd be cool to have it.
• 1:37:09
  SPEAKER_04: But right, if we're prioritizing like where our next facility project goes, it's not going to an 11v11 in Dolph Celby, you know.
• 1:37:17
  SPEAKER_04: And we can drive two hours and be on the east side playing against good teams.
• 1:37:21
  SPEAKER_04: So, like we do, right?
• 1:37:22
  SPEAKER_04: We do those Jags events.
• 1:37:23
  SPEAKER_04: We I mean nationals, I think, are putting one up in Lansing, I heard.
• 1:37:26
  SPEAKER_04: So that's gonna be an hour down the road.
• 1:37:28
  SPEAKER_04: So I'm sure we'll support those, and when they want us to come in and play, we'll do it and we'll pay an astronomical amount of money, I'm sure, to to play in those games.
• 1:37:36
  SPEAKER_04: But it's just not on my priority list, has it?
• 1:37:38
  SPEAKER_04: I just don't think it um I just don't think it makes sense.
• 1:37:41
  SPEAKER_01: Somebody keeps on messaging me talking about wanting to open up their own facility, and I'm like, and and she's like, Well, this has to be a moneymaker.
• 1:37:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's not, it's not, and and they are going out of business and they're selling and they're turning them into office buildings and like ultimate, you know, and it's it's like good luck.
• 1:38:02
  SPEAKER_04: Again, that's another thing I'm definitely nowhere near an expert on, but I'm like, everyone seems to be switching owners or selling, right?
• 1:38:09
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm like, that doesn't happen in booming industries, right?
• 1:38:12
  SPEAKER_01: They want to get out.
• 1:38:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:38:14
  SPEAKER_01: That's one of the reasons.
• 1:38:15
  SPEAKER_01: That's another reason why I wanted to get out of, you know, of Buffalo, really.
• 1:38:20
  SPEAKER_01: Outside of the podcast focus, is like running your own facility, even if it's small, it's a lot of work for just a one-man lift.
• 1:38:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's hard.
• 1:38:29
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and that's what we we've liked.
• 1:38:31
  SPEAKER_04: Like this space with a 6v6 indoor field and new space in Byron Center is going to be like a smaller training space.
• 1:38:37
  SPEAKER_04: They're easy to manage, you know.
• 1:38:38
  SPEAKER_04: It's a small office space, it's it's enough to train a team with, but it's not, it doesn't come with that whole like managing a L M V11 dome or managing those monster facilities you have on the east side.
• 1:38:48
  SPEAKER_04: Like, you're right, it's a different beast.
• 1:38:50
  SPEAKER_04: When you charging 800 an hour for it, like it's a whole different universe, innit?
• 1:38:53
  SPEAKER_04: You know, and I just don't think we have that.
• 1:38:55
  SPEAKER_04: I know I'm waiting for one of the colleges to do it.
• 1:38:57
  SPEAKER_04: I think a lot a few of the couple of the local high schools here are putting up these like football training facilities now, which might be easier for them, right?
• 1:39:05
  SPEAKER_04: To use some taxpayer dollars and get it done that way.
• 1:39:08
  SPEAKER_04: Exactly.
• 1:39:08
  SPEAKER_04: I don't think it's coming from us.
• 1:39:10
  SPEAKER_01: What's the Western facility like?
• 1:39:11
  SPEAKER_04: It's great.
• 1:39:12
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it's great.
• 1:39:13
  SPEAKER_04: It's um 80 by 60.
• 1:39:15
  SPEAKER_04: So it's not 11v11, but you can play too much.
• 1:39:18
  SPEAKER_04: Gets the job done and it's enough again for winter.
• 1:39:20
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it is.
• 1:39:20
  SPEAKER_04: It's you'd love it to be an extra 20 yards, but it's fine, you know.
• 1:39:24
  SPEAKER_04: Exactly.
• 1:39:25
  SPEAKER_01: Just adapt and uh Grand Valley has one too.
• 1:39:27
  SPEAKER_04: Grand Valley's is really nice.
• 1:39:28
  SPEAKER_04: They they play 11v11 games when it's tight, but it's the same thing.
• 1:39:32
  SPEAKER_04: It's it's enough, you know, and they do a few tournaments and stuff, so it's it's around.
• 1:39:36
  SPEAKER_04: I just don't know if anyone's doing it and making sense with it, right?
• 1:39:40
  SPEAKER_04: The few people that have reached out to me about like investing same thing, I'm like, I don't know, I don't I don't know if it's the best move.
• 1:39:46
  SPEAKER_01: I actually had a hard time renting out my space because it was small, and people are like, Well, how am I supposed to work on set pieces in here?
• 1:39:52
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, you coach a U9 Girls B team.
• 1:39:55
  SPEAKER_01: Why are you working on set pieces?
• 1:39:57
  SPEAKER_04: And that's that's why ours are nice, is they they functioned with the club, right?
• 1:40:00
  SPEAKER_04: Because we have to find those spaces for teams, and then we fill it with our extra programming, and and our only rule the program is it's got to benefit the players in the club, and then it's gotta keep the lights on, you know.
• 1:40:10
  SPEAKER_04: And I think if you do it that way, it it's a lot easier to run extra programming, right?
• 1:40:15
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:40:16
  SPEAKER_04: And then also you've got good people that take all care of it.
• 1:40:18
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, that's the other side, right?
• 1:40:20
  SPEAKER_04: Like here is nice because we don't rent it out to other people.
• 1:40:23
  SPEAKER_04: And you just smashed up, yeah.
• 1:40:26
  SPEAKER_04: Everybody respects it more.
• 1:40:28
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 1:40:28
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it's it's nice that way.
• 1:40:29
  SPEAKER_01: I'll rent it out to lacrosse and they just destroy everything and they don't care.
• 1:40:33
  SPEAKER_04: No, no.
• 1:40:33
  SPEAKER_04: They come and complain to you and say, go fix it.
• 1:40:37
  SPEAKER_01: Man, thank you so much.
• 1:40:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, of course.
• 1:40:40
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for having me.
• 1:40:41
  SPEAKER_04: Been fun chatting finally.
• 1:40:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 1:40:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I love doing it in person.
• 1:40:45
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not I'm not on the whole like Zoom thing.
• 1:40:49
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna add something to that, like behind a paywall and stuff like that, and and do more because I get DMs from all over the country of like, hey, I want to come on the podcast.
• 1:41:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's like I only do it in person because it's just so much better.
• 1:41:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:41:04
  SPEAKER_01: So but I appreciate your time, man.
• 1:41:06
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, thank you.
• 1:41:07
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
• 1:41:08
  SPEAKER_01: Appreciate it.
• 1:41:09
  SPEAKER_01: I hate soccer.