Latest / Auto Collabs / Why Cut The Turkey In Half? with Hoss Devine

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Why Cut The Turkey In Half? with Hoss Devine · Auto Collabs

• 0:00
  All right, I just have to put it out there that when the guest's name is Hoss, H-O-S-S [upbeat music] This is Auto Collabs. My expectations are already [laughs] through the roof. Sorry. They're super high. So high.
• 0:17
  [laughs] Super high. I saw his profile photo, had a bucket hat on that thing- Ready to go... and I was like, "Hello, it's gonna be a real podcast."
• 0:25
  Like, imagine the confidence level that one must have in order to, like he does, pull off the name Hoss. Like, if my name was Hoss, you, both of you would be like [scoffs] Right. You wish. Yeah, you wish. Yeah, exactly.
• 0:38
  You wish. And then I would cower. Write that, write that on your Starbucks cup. Yeah. And then I would cower. I'd be like, "You're right."
• 0:43
  [laughs] Uh, you know, it, automotive is definitely an industry that I would say is full of characters. I, and probably more than any other industry I can think of, aside from maybe, like, entertainment.
• 0:55
  [laughs] Just think about it. Think of the perception of auto dealers, and then you think about, like- Yeah... all the different- I'm thinking around. I'm like, "Yep"... think industry partner side- Yeah. Oh, yeah...
• 1:03
  dealer side They're all over the place. Like- Mm-hmm... there's definitely a cast of characters more- That's what I love about this though... more than a regular. Of course.
• 1:10
  Because we, when we get to interview these people, it's not like, "And my technology does this one thing," right? Mm-hmm. Like, every single time I'm like, "You do"... You know?
• 1:21
  [laughs] That, so many times during Auto Collabs over the last, what, year and a half since we've been doing it, there's this moment that I'll be like, "Excuse me." What? "You do"... What?
• 1:30
  We need, we need to get a bomb- [laughs] We need to get, like, a bomb drop trigger pad so that when someone says it- Yes... like, we can hit the, the bomb drop. Yes, exactly. And it'll just stop the show.
• 1:40
  Well, hey, I'm sure that there might be a couple little bomb drops because we're always surprised, and with a name like Hoss, you gotta believe it. High expectations.
• 1:47
  Uh, so we hope you enjoy this conversation with Hoss Devine. [upbeat music] Okay. So one of my biggest fears, and I don't fear much, but one of my biggest fears is getting people's names wrong. Ugh.
• 2:01
  Like, I hate getting people's names wrong. So I ask, is it Divine or Devine? And the reason is because when I moved from Canada to Texas, boy, did I get tarred and feathered when I said pecan. They're like- [laughs]...
• 2:16
  "It is a pe-con." Well, rightfully, rightfully so. Right. I say con. So I don't know, you know, that could be the Southern drawl, but that's what I say, is con. All right.
• 2:26
  But that's why I had to make sure it's not, it, it's Divine, not Devine, you know what I mean? Well, if you're from the South, they might say Devine. Okay. So either, okay.
• 2:35
  Sounds better, kind of, when you say it that way. [laughs] Hey, well, either way, excited to welcome you to Auto Collabs. Hoss Devine, thanks so much for joining us. Um- Thanks for having me... I wanna get into this.
• 2:44
  You said something pre-show, and, and it's left me inspired already because I have recently embarked on a health and wellness journey, down about 20 pounds, feeling all proud of myself, and then Devine says, "I'm down 201 pounds."
• 3:04
  [laughs] Whoa. How in the world? First of all, congratulations. He just 10X'd you, baby. Oh. Yeah. First of all, congratulations because- Oh, thanks... it is, it is all sorts of hard work.
• 3:15
  I've, I've realized it's the hardest thing I've ever had to do. But also, this leads into the first thing I wanna ask you as a bit of a get to know you, also tie into what you do, uh, in the auto industry.
• 3:26
  How have you... What have you learned about yourself during that process, and how has that shaped the way you conduct business? Has it changed it at all? Well, you know, man, that's a good question.
• 3:41
  Why do you guys ask such tough questions? [laughs] Usually, by the way, I gotta have one every now and again- He's like, [laughs]... 'cause usually I'm like the court jester. Okay.
• 3:48
  Well, you're not gonna make me cry or anything, right? Uh, it's- No, that's up to you. Well, we'll see. We'll recognize that. Now that we know the possibility- More on you... who knows? Uh, no, the, uh...
• 3:57
  I would say, you know, growing up, I had, uh, my family's all big. And so every emotion in life, uh, I was raised, is around food. If you're happy, you eat. If you're sad, you eat. If you're excited, you eat.
• 4:11
  If, whatever happens with your life, you celebrate it with food or, you know, you suppress it with food. Sounds so good. Uh, [laughs] and, uh, you know, have to clean your plate.
• 4:21
  I mean, I remember, you know, you had to eat everything on your plate. I love leaving stuff on my plate now. I, I like, I get a kick out of it. I'm like, "Yeah, do you want a box for that?" "No, I don't need that."
• 4:30
  Uh, so, uh- [laughs]... it's, um, but really, it's like, you know, trying not to live life in excess, you know. And, uh, trying to, you know, just, you know, food is fuel, and I just had to change my mindset around food.
• 4:48
  And actually, you know, I, I'd say the way that that combines to what I do now is I changed my mindset around what this business looks like. And, you know, and so I changed my mindset around food to transform my health.
• 5:01
  But now I've changed my mindset around the automotive industry to transform the way, transform the way we run dealerships and the way we look at our business because nothing that we've done, you know, we've all had this old way of looking at things and, you know, I've been in business since I was 19 years old.
• 5:18
  I'm 48 now, so I mean, it's, you know, I've seen a lot of things in the industry. Uh, you know, I remember when the internet came out, I thought we were done. Uh, you know, uh- Right...
• 5:29
  the first time a customer came in with an invoice and I was like, "Oh my God, we're, we're going out of business now."
• 5:34
  Uh, and, uh, you know, but I was just a green pea salesman and, uh, didn't think, uh, anything about it. But, but really to me, that's what innovation is.
• 5:44
  That's what change is, is it's all about changing your mindset around things and not looking at, you know... You've heard the story and I think, uh, I don't know if you've heard it, but I'll tell it real quick. It's,
• 5:55
  but, you know, there was a little girl who asked her mom at Thanksgiving, "Hey, Mom, why do we cut the turkey in half and put it in, uh, the oven?" And the mom said, "Well, that's just the way Grandma did it.
• 6:05
  Ask Grandma when she gets here." So Grandma gets there, and she asks the same question, and Grandma says, "Well, that's the way my mom did it.
• 6:11
  When she gets here, ask her."And so then great-grandma comes in and asks her, "Well, why do you cut the chick- uh, turkey in half?" And she said, "Well, it's real easy, honey.
• 6:18
  Back then, my oven was only big enough to hold half a turkey." [laughs] And so, uh- Oh, no. But look at the way we do stuff in automotive. Why do we do stuff this way? Why do we do stuff?
• 6:34
  And it's challenging the status quo. We do stuff, and we don't even know why we're doing it. It's just, "Hey, that's the way we've always done it, so let's just do it that way."
• 6:42
  And that's why I don't work well for others. I realized a long time ago, that's why I got into consulting, is I don't work well for others because I challenge everything. And so- Huh...
• 6:51
  the best way to do that is to challenge this industry and say, "Hey, there's a better way of doing business." I, I remember the very... I was a green pea salesman.
• 7:01
  I won't say the dealer's name, but I remember, you know, we used to have those streamer pencils that we would send out to customers, you know, back in the day, where, you know, I got really good at g- getting people to sit down, you know, and peel 'em off the ceiling because of the numbers we presented to them.
• 7:16
  [laughs] And- Been there. For sure. And I asked, I asked the dealer one day, we were standing out on the pad and I said, "Hey, why do we treat customers the way we do?" And I'm a, you know, 19-year-old green pea punk.
• 7:29
  And he's like, "Hoss, do you know how many people there are in Oklahoma City?" And I said, "Well, I don't know, 1.5, 2 million people?" And he's like, "Yeah. You know how long it takes to piss off 1.5 million people?"
• 7:39
  Uh, and, and that was the way he looked at doing business. And- Wow. [laughs] So- Wow... uh, and but, you know, we deserve the reputation we got, uh, back in the day, um, you know, as car guys.
• 7:51
  But today, the business is changing, and I think the internet and technology has helped our industry more than anything. Um, I- What is... W- Like, when you think about the, the, the oven just wasn't big enough, right?
• 8:06
  Right. Is there something that you can point to that as you've been in the industry that you've dug in and you're like, "Oh, I did find out why we did it that way," and it was another, like, oven wasn't big enough story?
• 8:21
  Like, oh, it was because we had to back then, but that, that scenario doesn't actually even exist anymore, so w- why are we continuing to do that way? Or now maybe the industry has shifted.
• 8:32
  Well, it's kind of funny you, you, you bring up a point that...
• 8:35
  So there's a, there's a, there's actually several things that I look at that way in our industry [laughs] that says, you know, why, why did we do it that way?
• 8:43
  And when you go back, you know, here's an education lesson for probably a lot of people that don't know this. Um, but I'm a student of the business, so I try to learn everything, uh, that I can. I'm always learning.
• 8:54
  And, uh, let's look at service, right? Why do we write o- why does the DMS handle ROs the way they handle ROs? And the reason why is back in the day before computers,
• 9:05
  uh, when a customer came into the shop, we had little cards that we would write an RO on. And so the customer would come in, they'd say, "What's your complaint?" And they would say, "Oh, well, this is wrong."
• 9:16
  And so they'd write a customer pay ticket on one card. And then they'd say, "Oh, well, let me see if you have any warranty work." And then they'd write another card with warranty work.
• 9:24
  And that became, uh, the standard that transferred over into DMSs.
• 9:29
  And that's why my software does little things different with some service stuff, is because dealers are under the impression that when they look at the financial statement and they see that you've had 1,235 customer pay ROs, they think they've had 1,235 customers in there.
• 9:44
  That's not the case.
• 9:45
  They, you know, my system determines, shows them, hey, for service, for instance, "Hey, you actually had 873 customers in there, but you had other customer pay tickets, uh, line items that came in on warranty tickets or on internal, you know, or whatever."
• 10:01
  And so dealers don't even understand that, that what they're seeing, they're basing their business decisions off bad data. And the, the, the DMSs, they won't go and tell them the truth. They won't tell them.
• 10:14
  That's so wild. You know what I'm saying? I love that story. And that's one I didn't know.
• 10:20
  I'm like, oh, well, of course, because if you were building a DMS based off the fact that you had paper and now you don't have paper- Make a digital version of what you did on paper, obviously. Right?
• 10:29
  Like this- And so with my F&I tool, I did what we did on paper and I transformed it to automate it for F&I to say, "Okay, we don't have paper anymore, but let's, let's take it and convert it to where now this is digital and we can do some really cool, innovative shit that we..."
• 10:44
  Oh, oh, excuse me. It's all good. You might have to bleep that out. We're good. We're good.
• 10:48
  But, uh, so, uh, we can do some really cool innovative stuff to, uh, uh, you know, to change the way the customer experience is and, and to enhance the customer experience. And to me, that's what it's all about.
• 11:02
  You know, one other thing that 20 groups have done for years, which I think is a stupid metric, and it's one of those things that we've always done it because we've always done it this way, and that is
• 11:12
  back in the day, there was a metric, and they still use it in 20 groups to this day, which is what's your percentage of comp, sales comp, to front-end gross?
• 11:21
  Well, that's a great metric when you don't have any finance income. But today, 50% or 60% of a dealer's income is F&I. That's a bullshit metric that people run their business off of.
• 11:32
  And it's like, dude, your, your f- front-end gross isn't, it's going away, man. I mean, you gotta make, you're gonna make 50, 60% Yeah, it came back for 18 months, but it's going away again, everybody.
• 11:43
  Just remember that. [laughs] Yeah. I mean, and we all seen it go away. You know? [laughs] You start to see that stuff dropping now that the market's kind of starting to bounce back.
• 11:51
  That's so interesting because I've heard so many dealers be like, "15%... 15% is my front, my comp to front-end gross. Like, over and out, that's what it's gotta be, and if it's not, then it's not."
• 12:02
  But then you hear, and you got some dealers and they're like, "Psh, I've never cared about that." And they're like, "But look at my net profit statement" [laughs] Right? Oh, wow. Well, I mean, here's the thing. Yeah.
• 12:12
  Like, I have pay, you know, I have a pay plan that I put in stores when I did consulting, and I'm not, I mean, I don't pitch pay plans, but if a dealer asks me, I tell 'em. But-But I pay a salesperson off all gross.
• 12:23
  It doesn't matter, all of it, you know? And I get my comp down.
• 12:27
  But if you do that measurement and, and you get everybody pulling on the same rope, I call it profit-sharing pay plan, and it gets the salesperson to think like a dealer.
• 12:35
  Uh, and the more money the salesperson, the dealer makes, the more money the salesman makes, and the less money the dealer makes, the less money the salesman makes.
• 12:41
  And so, uh, and you end up paying people more than they've ever made, and your comp comes in less than it's ever come in before because, uh, it's not a traditional pay plan. It's innovative. Uh, it's outside the box.
• 12:54
  But they're getting paid on everything, and it's getting them to think like a dealer. Uh, and so... But it throws that metric way out of the, the realm, you know? Way out of whack. Right. Yeah.
• 13:03
  So- So the question is, you know, the question is, so you told this story, um, you know, about the discipline that it took and the mindset shift that it took to, to lose 200 pounds over a number of years.
• 13:16
  We're talking about a mindset shift that needs to happen that doesn't sound like it's easily going to happen all at once, right? Just like you, you can't lose 200 pounds at once, right?
• 13:27
  But you have to have discipline over time. What are the things and the mechanisms that you use to start to shift the perspective of the folks that are locked into this old way, right?
• 13:37
  Just 'cause the, we cut it in half 'cause that's what we do.
• 13:40
  What are the things that you see work as you start to try to turn the head of a dealer, maybe not make a wholesale change, but, like, can we stairstep them there? You have any experience you can share with us there?
• 13:51
  Well, man, it's, you know, all the years... I, I call it leading people down the path to self-discovery.
• 13:56
  Uh, you know, understanding what the right questions are to ask that elicit that per- Here's the thing, dealers, no offense to dealers. I've been around them my whole life. I love them. My best friends are dealers.
• 14:07
  Uh, but a lot of them are very, uh, stuck in their ways. They don't like to hear what, you know, a, a new alternative way is. And so it's, you know, it has to be their idea.
• 14:19
  And so the only way to make it their idea is to lead them down the path to self-discovery and, uh, and to ask those right questions. Um, I'll give you an example. I spent millions of dollars- Yeah, yeah. Hold on.
• 14:31
  Real, real quick, before the example, because I think that we say that about dealers, but I think it's probably more universal than that, right? Like, like, go back to your story about health and wellness, right?
• 14:42
  You probably could've watched, like, I don't know, 500 videos on why you should stop eating so much, right? But there was some level of self-discovery that led you to, like, "Maybe there's a better way," right?
• 14:54
  And I think that that's... Like, we pin it on people that- It's human nature is what you're saying... oh, they'll, that, that, you know, when it, when it's- Well, here's the thing.
• 15:01
  To, to elicit change, I have a saying that I've done personally, which is, "The pain of doing it has to be greater than the pain of not doing it."
• 15:10
  And so, you know, the pain of eating too much and being unhealthy has to become greater than the pain of eating healthy. Uh, and- Yeah. I mean, that goes...
• 15:20
  I've, I've heard a similar statement, like, when they talk about, um, you know, like, um, rebel groups with small arms holding off large armies.
• 15:27
  They're like, "The pain of occupation has to just, you have to just make it hurt more than the value of just holding the territory." Yeah. And the, the thing is, it's about that mental mindset, right?
• 15:38
  And, you know, the, the brain is such a powerful thing, and that's... You know, I, I love studying psychology. That was, you know, uh, something that I've, I've loved for years.
• 15:48
  I mean, I have an executive coach who, uh, you know, I talk to on a weekly basis who, uh, you know, is just phenomenal about human engineering. All my people have the ability to talk to him anytime they want to as well.
• 15:59
  Um, you know, and so it's, it's all about creating that right mental mindset to create success. And it doesn't matter what that success is, it's, but it's about that mental mindset and, and how you shift your thinking.
• 16:13
  Uh- Hold up. Hold up. Because you just dropped something that was... You just like, you just like... I, I think Cirillo knows what I'm...
• 16:22
  [laughs] You just were like, "Ah," you know, it just kinda spilled outta your mouth. But you were like, "I've got this executive coach." [laughs] "I talk to him weekly. But you know, I made him...
• 16:30
  These guy- everybody on my team has access to him." Yeah. Like that, you know, we just do a whole podcast about that right there, right?
• 16:37
  Because it's like, how many executives, general managers, owners of companies, all that type of stuff, have an executive coach, get mentoring, all that type of stuff?
• 16:46
  It's the person that they believe is the best suited to make sure that their business is able to succeed, and would never give their team access to that t- What, what led you to that belief to go like, "Hey, this executive coach, you have access to him"?
• 17:01
  Well, I- 'Cause that probably is not cheap if I had to guess Learn everything you can. It, it's not cheap. I mean, it's, uh- Right... it's, it's far from cheap. Uh, [laughs] What are we talking here?
• 17:09
  No, I'm just kidding. [laughs] No. But at, but at the, uh, but at the end of the day, here's what it's all about to me.
• 17:15
  As an employer, I have a responsibility to make, uh, sure that my employees are better husbands, wives, mothers, fathers, uh, everything, and if I do that, they become better employees.
• 17:28
  Uh, and so if I make sure that their lifestyle and the way they s- deal with their life and their kids and their family and everything else is all good, then they, they, they become better employees, and they work harder and do better.
• 17:42
  That's why I have unlimited PTO in my company. I don't care. Take time off. Who gives a shit? Uh, you know, if you got your job done, do it.
• 17:49
  Uh, but hey, if you got stuff, you know, 20%, I've learned this over the years, 20% of everybody in your company always has something personal going on.
• 17:58
  Uh, and so, you know, when I hired salespeople, I would always hire 20% more than I needed because I always knew that 20% of them was gonna have some drama or crisis in their life that's not gonna allow them to work.
• 18:10
  And so I, I made up for that by hiring 20% more so that I always had the full-time staff that I needed.
• 18:16
  And so, uh, you know, I think letting people be them-But, you know, I mean, I have people on my team that have ADHD real bad, and that, you know, uh,
• 18:27
  sometimes kinda, you know, go off the rails a little bit and throw a temper tantrum or whatever. And I walk in and they're throwing a temper tantrum. I'm like, "Whoa, what happened to you this morning?"
• 18:36
  "Ah, da, da, da, da." And I'm like, "Okay." Then I go to my office and I come back a couple hours later, and I'm like, "All right, man, you got your head straight? You g- you done throwing your temper tantrum?
• 18:44
  All right, get to work." Uh, you know, I mean, uh, so I mean- I feel like that accent, that ha- has the ability to walk in- Absolutely... and ask someone if they're done flowing that then, you know. [laughs] Hell yeah.
• 18:55
  [laughs] Get to it. Yeah, I'd like to, I'd like to have that same thing. But yeah, I mean, it's, it's just about, you know, hey, I, I wanna be the, the best person I can be.
• 19:02
  I wanna, you know, me personally, it's all about being the best, not being a know-it-all. Uh, always having that student and learning mentality. And, and I try to, and focus that on my team, so.
• 19:13
  Do you have, uh, those hats behind you, is there a code for each hat? Like, yo, when Hoss is wearing that hat- [laughs] Oh, when Hoss is wearing that, it's on... walk in the opposite direction.
• 19:23
  [laughs] No, I just, uh, that's not all the hats I have. That's just the only ones that's, that's all that rack'll hold. Uh, but- [laughs] I love it. This is, like, almost a version of Mr. Rogers.
• 19:33
  'Cause I picture you walking into your office, taking one hat off, putting another hat on. Uh- Except the, the melody to Mr. Rogers is being played on a banjo. Oh, yeah. [laughs] Oh, man.
• 19:46
  Hoss, uh, it has been just a ton of fun hanging out with you. And, uh, we've, we've barely known you before hanging out with you here, but we can tell you're a man after our hearts.
• 19:54
  And, uh, it's been, uh, it's been a ton of fun kinda digging into, to your beliefs and what you're doing to, to support the auto industry.
• 20:01
  I know you'll be at ASOTU CON, um, and people can, can reach out to you obviously. Uh, thanks so much, and, uh, on behalf of all of us at Auto, at Auto Collabs, appreciate you. Oh, hey, thanks, man.
• 20:11
  Have everybody stop by the booth. [upbeat music] Okay. Hoss, name, check. Cowboy hat, check. Three cowboy hats in the background, check. Triple check. Tri- uh, there's, there's more. Hold on.
• 20:29
  I mean, his last name's Devine. Apologized for cursing on the show, check. He's a gentleman. [laughs] Continued to curse for emphasis. After that- Check... check. Like, Hoss is our new best friend.
• 20:40
  [laughs] This guy- He is... is great. He, he puts off a really- And every time it was, like, something mind-blowing that he said- He just kept going... like, all the other stuff, he was, like, so intent.
• 20:47
  And then the mind-blowing stuff- Just walking... he'd be like, "I'm in, I'm in." Yeah. Just- Right. [laughs] Just pull the pin, throw it. Yeah. Just keep walking like- Well, you walk that way...
• 20:54
  he's the guy that walks away from an explosion without flinching. He is that guy. Yeah. Yes.
• 20:59
  You, you were talking earlier about characters in the auto industry, and I think, you know, like, this is one of those things as we seek to dispel the, you know, especially through More Than Cars, we, we kinda seek to dispel that negative stigma that looms over the industry.
• 21:11
  Mm-hmm. I've never met more people outside of an Amway convention- [laughs]... who are so committed to personal development. Right.
• 21:20
  [laughs] Like- This dude gives up his, his, he makes sure his executive coach is available to his entire staff. Yeah. Like, what? And, and I think that's the side of the industry that the three of us see regularly.
• 21:32
  I've- It's, it's a norm. It is actually a norm. And so for him, he glosses over it 'cause he's like, "Of course I personal develop. Of course I want my team to elevate." Duh.
• 21:39
  And that's the story that we, you know, uh, through ASOTU obviously, we, we seek to just get out there more and more so that more and more people realize that.
• 21:47
  'Cause I think if they really understood how not only do one in four Americans work in the r- the auto industry in one shape or form, that the commitment to growth and development and elevating people around you is bar none at a higher threshold than I've ever seen, and he's no exception.
• 22:05
  Without a doubt. I don't think we can end on a better note than that. On behalf of Kyle Mountserre, Michael Cirillo, and myself, thank you so much for listening to Auto Collabs.
• 22:15
  Sign up for our free and fun-to-read daily email for a free shot of relevant news in automotive, retail, media, and pop culture. You can get it now at asotu.com. That's A-S-O-T-U dot com.
• 22:28
  If you love this podcast, please leave us a review and share it with a friend. Thanks again for listening. We'll see you next time.
• 22:34
  [upbeat music] Welcome to Auto Collabs. Welcome to Auto Collabs. [laughs] Are we recording? Are we rolling yet?
• 22:53
  Not yet.