Latest / The Parenting Podcast / Fighting fair - How we can parent better in conflicts | Ep. 38

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Fighting fair - How we can parent better in conflicts | Ep. 38 · The Parenting Podcast

• 1:00
  cheryl: Hi listeners.
• 1:01
  cheryl: Welcome to the parenting podcast and our whole quartet is here today.
• 1:06
  cheryl: How are y'all doing?
• 1:07
  cheryl: Doing good.
• 1:08
  cheryl: Yeah.
• 1:08
  Ellen: Glad to be here.
• 1:09
  Ellen: Tired.
• 1:11
  Ellen: a long weekend.
• 1:12
  Ellen: It was fun, but I'm tired.
• 1:14
  Ellen: Fun is
• 1:14
  Christie: exhausting.
• 1:15
  Christie: Yes, it
• 1:16
  cheryl: is.
• 1:16
  cheryl: Yeah.
• 1:18
  cheryl: well with the ongoing saga, I'm back in my house and I have furniture.
• 1:23
  cheryl: Oh, great.
• 1:24
  cheryl: So the floors are done.
• 1:26
  cheryl: Little bit of tweaking here and there.
• 1:27
  cheryl: I don't have all of the stuff, or I don't know where to put things on my wall.
• 1:33
  cheryl: Mm-hmm but all my furniture's in and it's clean and, and
• 1:37
  Ellen: it's hard to hammer a nail in your brand new painted wall.
• 1:41
  Christie: That's one of my
• 1:41
  cheryl: kids said, oh, you may come over and help you.
• 1:43
  cheryl: put nails in And I go, no, I don't.
• 1:47
  cheryl: Don't wanna put nails in my nearly painted box.
• 1:51
  cheryl: Um, and so it's fun.
• 1:54
  cheryl: It's been a long time.
• 1:57
  cheryl: Yeah.
• 1:57
  cheryl: Mm-hmm and so it's really pretty.
• 1:59
  cheryl: Yeah, it looks great.
• 2:00
  cheryl: Oh, isn't it.
• 2:01
  cheryl: Isn't it neat.
• 2:02
  cheryl: Mm-hmm Maybe we'll send you a picture out on social media guys.
• 2:05
  cheryl: Uh, okay.
• 2:06
  cheryl: you wanna jump into a question?
• 2:07
  cheryl: Yeah.
• 2:07
  cheryl: Yeah, let's do it.
• 2:08
  cheryl: Go for it.
• 2:08
  cheryl: All right.
• 2:09
  cheryl: So here we are.
• 2:10
  cheryl: When my kids disagree with me, I want to talk with them and about the issue.
• 2:15
  cheryl: However, so many times it ends up just going round and round and all over the place.
• 2:21
  cheryl: It feels so unproductive.
• 2:23
  cheryl: And instead of understanding and resolution, we are sometimes more at odds each other than when we were before.
• 2:30
  cheryl: Mm-hmm It makes me want to just be a dictator and not allow any conversation.
• 2:37
  cheryl: Could you all talk about how to argue well and give some suggestions?
• 2:41
  cheryl: So those discussions can be more productive and like you always say build relationship instead of tearing at them.
• 2:49
  cheryl: Yes.
• 2:50
  cheryl: Oh,
• 2:51
  Danae: I think this is especially hard when they're moving out of that childhood stage into, you know, pre-teen teenager years
• 2:58
  Christie: thinking.
• 2:58
  Danae: Yes.
• 2:59
  Danae: In fact, the story that comes up for me.
• 3:03
  Danae: the one, one of my daughters wanted to be just like her friends and wear some shorts that I thought were
• 3:10
  Ellen: a little too short.
• 3:11
  Ellen: Oh man.
• 3:11
  Ellen: And she did not
• 3:12
  Danae: agree.
• 3:14
  Danae: and so we would talk about it.
• 3:15
  Danae: I would kind of like you, well, I think I'm thinking of it.
• 3:18
  Danae: Cuz you said the word dictator think that's
• 3:21
  Ellen: kind of
• 3:21
  Danae: where I went, you know, she wanted to argue about it and I was.
• 3:25
  Danae: Nope.
• 3:26
  Danae: You are not wearing those shorts.
• 3:27
  Danae: And you know, then she'd come out a couple days later in the same shorts and we would just be back at it.
• 3:35
  cheryl: Goodness, not my favorite part of parenting.
• 3:38
  cheryl: Oh
• 3:38
  Ellen: no, no.
• 3:38
  Ellen: And it gets, those issues are so much harder as I get older.
• 3:41
  Ellen: Mm-hmm because I get junior high and high school, they're more important than the shorts they wore when they were three.
• 3:47
  Ellen: Right.
• 3:47
  Ellen: So, you know, it's, that time, it's just color,
• 3:50
  cheryl: you know, when you get into the releasing.
• 3:53
  cheryl: And young adults because yeah, that's part of our parenting too.
• 3:57
  cheryl: Yeah.
• 3:58
  cheryl: That is the goal.
• 3:59
  cheryl: It becomes really important.
• 4:00
  Ellen: Oh, they're wearing those shorts that I never like
• 4:04
  Danae: all of them.
• 4:07
  Christie: okay.
• 4:07
  Christie: So maybe we should first define what arguing is.
• 4:11
  Christie: Mm that's right.
• 4:11
  Christie: Cuz
• 4:11
  cheryl: she did say argue.
• 4:13
  cheryl: Yeah.
• 4:13
  cheryl: Mm-hmm uh, you
• 4:15
  Ellen: know, there's a fine line, you know,
• 4:17
  Christie: I mean, you've got two opposing opinions.
• 4:19
  Christie: Mm-hmm
• 4:20
  Danae: yeah.
• 4:21
  Christie: Usually an emotional a component, right?
• 4:25
  Danae: Yeah.
• 4:25
  Danae: Mm-hmm yeah, this is really hard for me.
• 4:27
  Danae: I grew up in a home with no raised voices.
• 4:32
  Danae: I never remember an argument.
• 4:35
  Danae: Wow.
• 4:36
  Danae: Ever.
• 4:37
  Danae: Between my parents, between them and us today.
• 4:41
  Danae: I cannot
• 4:41
  Christie: even imagine that
• 4:43
  Danae: scenario.
• 4:44
  Danae: In fact, I'm gonna tell on my brother for a minute, he and I just talked about this.
• 4:48
  Danae: He was doing something that my dad did not think was good for him and healthy.
• 4:52
  Danae: And my dad put a magazine article in his car about it and never said anything.
• 4:57
  Danae: I think my brother.
• 4:59
  Danae: 16.
• 4:59
  Danae: Wow.
• 5:00
  Danae: So as you can imagine, ah, my definition of arguing is maybe a
• 5:05
  cheryl: little
• 5:06
  Danae: different.
• 5:07
  cheryl: and I didn't argue much myself at all.
• 5:10
  cheryl: Mm-hmm and um, one of my siblings was kind of the epicenter of arguments in our home.
• 5:15
  cheryl: Mm-hmm my older brother and, but I didn't very much mm-hmm but it wasn't always at all very healthy.
• 5:23
  cheryl: For example, my mom and I had a great relationship.
• 5:27
  cheryl: But I knew I could bully her and I didn't do it with meanness.
• 5:30
  cheryl: I would just keep that pressure up.
• 5:32
  cheryl: For example, I wanted to go to a dancer or party or do something mm-hmm wanted to wear the shorts mm-hmm and she'd said no.
• 5:39
  cheryl: Sure.
• 5:39
  cheryl: I don't think so.
• 5:40
  cheryl: And I would just keep that pressure up.
• 5:42
  cheryl: Keep that pressure up in a nice way.
• 5:45
  cheryl: keep up the pressure, keep bringing it up, keep up the pressure.
• 5:48
  cheryl: And then a lot of times got her where I wanted, where she would say, well, you know how I feel about you just do what you want.
• 5:55
  Danae: Wow.
• 5:56
  Danae: Yes.
• 5:56
  Danae: That's.
• 5:56
  Danae: Yeah.
• 5:56
  Danae: So that's not, not arguing.
• 5:58
  Danae: No.
• 5:58
  Danae: I mean, really you just gave an example.
• 6:00
  Ellen: Nagging my was nagging children.
• 6:02
  Ellen: Get nothing.
• 6:03
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 6:03
  Ellen: You know, my kids knew if you start pressuring me or nagging me, it's over.
• 6:08
  Ellen: Mm-hmm you're not gonna get anything from
• 6:09
  cheryl: me.
• 6:09
  cheryl: I'm glad you didn't tell that to my mom.
• 6:16
  Ellen: that was a teenager.
• 6:16
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 6:16
  Ellen: Right.
• 6:16
  Ellen: It did.
• 6:16
  Ellen: Wasn't that my kids didn't try.
• 6:17
  Ellen: I did have to remind them, nagging children, get nothing.
• 6:20
  Ellen: Mm-hmm right.
• 6:20
  Ellen: You know,
• 6:21
  cheryl: but the problem is.
• 6:22
  cheryl: Well, I'm not nagging I just wanna keep talking about it.
• 6:26
  Ellen: We to discuss it a nauseum.
• 6:29
  Christie: Well, we talked before about our kids kind of being students of us and they learn our weaknesses and my kids and I, we all like to argue, so they would just present a really good argument.
• 6:40
  Christie: And before long.
• 6:41
  Christie: I'm saying yes, because they were so convincing and I'm like, wait a minute.
• 6:45
  Christie: I started out with a really good stance on that.
• 6:48
  Christie: And mm-hmm
• 6:49
  cheryl: yeah.
• 6:49
  cheryl: Similar Christie.
• 6:50
  cheryl: I Worked
• 6:51
  Cheryl (2): as a mom
• 6:52
  cheryl: at discussing things mm-hmm and talking about it and going back and forth.
• 6:57
  cheryl: Well, look at the reason behind them.
• 6:58
  cheryl: What.
• 6:59
  cheryl: We did a lot of that while it honed my children's, if you will debate skills, right?
• 7:04
  cheryl: Mm-hmm or their lawyer skills mm-hmm so that it might not be explosive mm-hmm but they knew how to lay out an argument set traps for me, emotional of that arguments, emotion, particularly in widowhood, but just all of that.
• 7:19
  cheryl: Because you do want to talk about it.
• 7:22
  cheryl: Mm-hmm and I remember one time bill said, honey, can you come here a minute?
• 7:26
  cheryl: And Rebecca was probably ninth, 10th grade, something like that.
• 7:29
  cheryl: Mm-hmm sure.
• 7:30
  cheryl: And I went out and he said, do you even have any idea what y'all started talking about Uhhuh mm-hmm absolutely not whatsoever.
• 7:39
  cheryl: Yes.
• 7:40
  cheryl: We had gone so many rabbit trails and all this, and you've got an argument.
• 7:44
  cheryl: She is leading you around by the nose and he goes, I'm sitting here listening to it.
• 7:49
  cheryl: Because.
• 7:50
  cheryl: What she was doing is when this didn't work, then she would just step over and go into a different direction and bring, and I was just walking along with her, trying not to be the dictator, but so even though it wasn't emotional, It wasn't arguing well, Yeah.
• 8:07
  cheryl: Okay.
• 8:07
  cheryl: So what is an argument?
• 8:09
  cheryl: And what's a discussion
• 8:10
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 8:10
  Ellen: In talking about arguments, um, and different people have different feelings about it.
• 8:14
  Ellen: My oldest son and I, we love to debate.
• 8:18
  Ellen: I mean, we were really truly debating and we would go on for maybe an hour on a subject mm-hmm but my daughters felt like we were argu.
• 8:25
  Ellen: Okay, because yeah, even we raised our voices, you know, we were both passionate about like arguing with anger or, or just passion mm-hmm you know, it wasn't necessarily anger, but we were just, cuz you know, it was a hot topic maybe that we both felt strongly about on the other, other end of this.
• 8:41
  Ellen: Each other's spectrum.
• 8:42
  Ellen: So my girls would say, you know, it's bothering you.
• 8:46
  Ellen: Sounds like you guys are arguing in there and I would have to no, no, we're just having a debate.
• 8:50
  Ellen: Mm-hmm you know, we're just talking about this, we're just discussing it but we're not angry with each other.
• 8:55
  Ellen: Because that's the problem, the fine line between having a good discussion or having a good argument that then becomes back loaded with all these emotions and hurts, it brings up other things.
• 9:08
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 9:08
  Ellen: And pretty soon now everybody's just in a pile of emotions.
• 9:13
  Christie: Wow.
• 9:13
  Christie: Okay.
• 9:13
  Christie: So this is making me think the difference between.
• 9:16
  Christie: Arguing as discussion or, or just coming to, um, the table with two different opposing views or pushback against authority.
• 9:27
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 9:27
  Ellen: Those are two different things.
• 9:28
  Ellen: Oh yes.
• 9:28
  Ellen: That's true.
• 9:29
  Ellen: True.
• 9:29
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 9:29
  Ellen: You're right.
• 9:30
  cheryl: Yeah, you did too.
• 9:32
  cheryl: Did not.
• 9:32
  cheryl: Did too.
• 9:33
  cheryl: Did not.
• 9:33
  cheryl: Mm-hmm That kind of argument versus what a lawyer does before the Supreme court he's presenting an argument.
• 9:40
  cheryl: Mm-hmm and nobody's saying did too did not.
• 9:43
  cheryl: Yeah.
• 9:43
  cheryl: Okay.
• 9:44
  cheryl: So I think this mom is saying.
• 9:47
  cheryl: We devolve into did two did not.
• 9:50
  Ellen: That's called, fighting, fighting at that period.
• 9:53
  Christie: That's good.
• 9:54
  Christie: Fighting over it.
• 9:55
  cheryl: Yeah.
• 9:55
  cheryl: Rather than she wants what we're talking about.
• 9:58
  cheryl: Yeah.
• 9:58
  cheryl: Even with a lot of emotion, what she's saying is mm-hmm I want to be able to discuss it.
• 10:04
  cheryl: Mm-hmm even when we disagree, how do I do that?
• 10:07
  Danae: Yeah, because I'm thinking fighting that really hit me because when you're fighting with somebody there's, um, a fear of loss in your relationship.
• 10:17
  Danae: Mm-hmm, someone's gonna win and someone's gonna get hurt.
• 10:21
  Danae: But with arguing, one of you may win, but it's not, you're not so personally invested your relationship.
• 10:28
  Danae: Won't suffer.
• 10:30
  Danae: Mm-hmm
• 10:30
  Ellen: that's good.
• 10:31
  Cheryl (2): Right?
• 10:31
  Cheryl (2): Yeah, because if I think of fighting it's defensiveness mm-hmm Taking it personally.
• 10:37
  Cheryl (2): Yeah.
• 10:38
  Cheryl (2): Okay.
• 10:39
  Cheryl (2): And then also.
• 10:41
  Cheryl (2): trying to win
• 10:42
  Danae: mm-hmm Yeah.
• 10:43
  Danae: And why are you trying to win?
• 10:44
  Danae: Because I think I'd add to that list.
• 10:46
  Danae: Like the fear of dot, dot, dot.
• 10:49
  Danae: Yeah.
• 10:50
  Danae: What's going to happen if my child does this thing that I don't want them to do.
• 10:55
  Danae: In fact, thinking of the shorts, I'm thinking I have to tell on myself that, you know, it wasn't, it was about so much more than her shorts are just a little too short mm-hmm in my mama mind, I had her.
• 11:08
  Danae: You know, just all of these bad scenarios happening to her character with her behavior.
• 11:14
  Danae: And now her future is all lost because at 12 she's gonna go outta the house with shorts that I thought were a little too short.
• 11:21
  Danae: Wait, I go wrong?
• 11:23
  Danae: so I'm gonna, so yeah, so I'm gonna lose, like there's so much to lose.
• 11:28
  Danae: If I lose this argument here.
• 11:30
  cheryl: you're triggered.
• 11:31
  cheryl: Ooh.
• 11:31
  cheryl: Yeah.
• 11:32
  cheryl: See, yeah.
• 11:33
  cheryl: If I get triggered.
• 11:34
  cheryl: Yeah.
• 11:34
  cheryl: That's the thing because suddenly whatever it is.
• 11:38
  cheryl: Yeah.
• 11:38
  cheryl: You're talking about their lying or something like that.
• 11:40
  cheryl: Mm-hmm and if I'm triggered, I'm projecting a lifetime yeah.
• 11:45
  cheryl: Of, you know, fear prison sys, because they're going to be a pathological liar.
• 11:52
  cheryl: Yeah.
• 11:52
  cheryl: Instead of.
• 11:53
  cheryl: Handling it a better way.
• 11:55
  Danae: your reaction.is in disproportion to that's the topic that's good.
• 11:59
  Danae: Right then.
• 12:00
  Danae: So I would think, yeah, that's something I wish I would've thought
• 12:03
  Ellen: of because sometimes a hard part as a parent is the argument can devolve into a disrespect thing.
• 12:10
  Ellen: And then I know.
• 12:11
  Ellen: As a mom, when I feel like I'm being disrespected, then my hackles go up and I'm not gonna listen to anything.
• 12:17
  Ellen: And that's when you wanna become
• 12:18
  Christie: the dictator.
• 12:19
  Christie: Yes.
• 12:20
  Christie: For the mom.
• 12:21
  Christie: You're the kid.
• 12:22
  Christie: This is
• 12:22
  Ellen: what we're doing.
• 12:22
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 12:23
  Ellen: Mm-hmm Yeah.
• 12:24
  Ellen: And so in a sense, we have to work on training our children to learn how to argue properly, you know, to do fair arguments.
• 12:32
  Ellen: Mm-hmm and we have to admit when, oh, You know, I'm, I'm really upset right now.
• 12:36
  Ellen: I need to go in the other room for a little bit, cuz you triggered something in me and then I have to go reflect what did that just trigger?
• 12:43
  Christie: And we do want our kids to be thinking this that can go even in with an authority yes.
• 12:49
  Christie: To go to their boss and say, I don't think this is fair.
• 12:52
  Christie: This is what I'd like to propose or.
• 12:55
  Christie: Compliant,
• 12:56
  Ellen: passive kids are wonderful to have around, but they don't get to live a full life because they're always compromising what they wanna do, because they're trying to please everybody sure makes parenting
• 13:09
  Christie: easier.
• 13:10
  Christie: Just control
• 13:10
  Danae: everything it does until they become adult children.
• 13:13
  Danae: And now they're needy and
• 13:15
  Christie: can't make their own
• 13:16
  Danae: decisions.
• 13:17
  Danae: Yeah.
• 13:19
  Danae: You know, I'm thinking one, one thing I try not to regret too much.
• 13:21
  Danae: It's just not healthy.
• 13:24
  Danae: But I wish I would've had classes kind of like argument school especially coming from the background that I shared with you all.
• 13:34
  Danae: I had zero tools.
• 13:37
  Danae: Yeah.
• 13:38
  Danae: Going into parenting of how to have conflict mm-hmm you know, and so I worked so hard to always just tamp down my emotions.
• 13:48
  Danae: Keep everything positive.
• 13:50
  Danae: I know how I was with my dad.
• 13:51
  Danae: And I think I have not pulled them.
• 13:53
  Danae: Maybe I will.
• 13:54
  Danae: My kids of why we didn't argue a lot, but I know I never wanted to disappoint my dad.
• 14:01
  Danae: And so I had this very internal guide, but y'all, that was exhausting because.
• 14:07
  Danae: We didn't talk about it.
• 14:08
  Danae: So I didn't know.
• 14:09
  Danae: I was always having to watch my dad and my mom.
• 14:13
  Danae: How do I live a life that they're not disappointed in me or the fear of that's a lot, a lot of pressure.
• 14:17
  Danae: What if one day they unleash all anger.
• 14:20
  Danae: Wow.
• 14:20
  Danae: You know, and I, and I, I wonder if I also parented that way with my children.
• 14:26
  Danae: Mm,
• 14:27
  cheryl: wow.
• 14:28
  cheryl: This is a hard topic.
• 14:29
  cheryl: It is, you know, it looks so straightforward, right?
• 14:33
  cheryl: So what are some other ways like this?
• 14:35
  cheryl: Let's say
• 14:36
  Cheryl (2): Dane
• 14:36
  cheryl: is coming to us and she's a young mom.
• 14:39
  cheryl: What are some of the things that we'd say, well, I wouldn't have done this.
• 14:42
  cheryl: I would do this.
• 14:43
  cheryl: And one of the things we already mentioned, uh, I get like a D minus on some of this had thousands of good conversations.
• 14:52
  cheryl: But blue, a thousand.
• 14:54
  cheryl: One of the things is the taking it personally.
• 14:57
  cheryl: Yeah.
• 14:57
  cheryl: You know, that's that big one.
• 14:59
  cheryl: y'all the problem is, is life just keeps happening.
• 15:03
  cheryl: and we talk it all, you know, suddenly it's happening and suddenly we're in the middle of something.
• 15:09
  cheryl: and both of us are taking it personally.
• 15:10
  cheryl: Mm-hmm right.
• 15:11
  Christie: So, well,
• 15:12
  Ellen: I expected to be an adult and then I'd get my feelings hurt there went adulthood
• 15:18
  Christie: Yeah.
• 15:19
  Christie: If I could have been completely mature.
• 15:21
  Christie: Yes.
• 15:21
  Christie: All the way through, by the time I had my first child, it would've been a lot easier.
• 15:25
  Christie: but then I find myself with a preteen girl and I'm down in the pit, like another middle schooler.
• 15:29
  Christie: Yes.
• 15:30
  Christie: I
• 15:30
  Danae: was just imagining.
• 15:31
  Danae: But Ellen.
• 15:32
  Danae: And now imagine you Christy, like the boxing ring Uhhuh, where it's like, don't get in the boxing
• 15:41
  Cheryl (2): ring.
• 15:41
  Cheryl (2): don't do this.
• 15:41
  Cheryl (2): That's so true.
• 15:41
  Cheryl (2): Yeah, because we don't want to avoid it.
• 15:45
  Cheryl (2): We want to be able to have the conversations.
• 15:48
  Cheryl (2): It's important.
• 15:48
  Cheryl (2): Like what you described you know, that's not healthy.
• 15:52
  Cheryl (2): That's not your parents helping you and engaging with you.
• 15:55
  Cheryl (2): Mm-hmm am I right in hearing you felt rejection?
• 15:58
  Cheryl (2): From them, because it sounds crazy to say they never argued with you.
• 16:03
  Cheryl (2): Mm-hmm but the fact that they didn't engage yeah.
• 16:06
  Cheryl (2): Left to failing.
• 16:08
  Cheryl (2): Uh, I don't know, unattended
• 16:09
  Danae: or yeah, well, I think it comes down to like, do I matter?
• 16:12
  Danae: Wow, that's good for sure.
• 16:14
  Danae: Oh, y'all are getting me in a deep way.
• 16:18
  cheryl: wow.
• 16:19
  cheryl: I never thought of that.
• 16:20
  cheryl: That's
• 16:20
  Ellen: true.
• 16:21
  Ellen: And the flip side is if you have very argumentative parents, Or overbearing parents.
• 16:27
  Ellen: You say the same thing does my opinion matter?
• 16:30
  Ellen: Does my voice matter?
• 16:31
  Ellen: Do I matter?
• 16:32
  Ellen: Or just them being right.
• 16:33
  Ellen: And I do what they told me to do
• 16:35
  Christie: because part of arguing.
• 16:38
  Christie: Is listening.
• 16:39
  Christie: And so if you're not being listened to either of these extremes, mm-hmm, you're, you don't feel heard, you don't feel respected that you have something worthy of bringing to the table.
• 16:49
  Christie: Yes.
• 16:49
  Christie: And
• 16:49
  cheryl: standing for wow.
• 16:51
  cheryl: Cause that is one of the things.
• 16:54
  cheryl: I would say to be a good listener.
• 16:56
  cheryl: Oh yeah.
• 16:57
  cheryl: With Christie.
• 16:58
  cheryl: If we could just back way up and be so much more mature mm-hmm you know, and good training on how to be a good listener.
• 17:06
  cheryl: Mm-hmm is I don't have to prove I'm right.
• 17:09
  cheryl: Mm-hmm I don't have to be defensive.
• 17:12
  cheryl: I can just come person to person.
• 17:15
  cheryl: And have that emotional.
• 17:17
  cheryl: but it's
• 17:18
  Ellen: scary.
• 17:18
  Ellen: Mm-hmm because sometimes, especially when you're getting junior high and high school children, mm-hmm, you know, they're becoming adults and they're wanting to do things that, you know, have a lot bigger consequences.
• 17:31
  Ellen: If they go off path or what you think the path should be.
• 17:34
  Ellen: Mm-hmm And so there's that deep fear in all of us as moms and parents, we don't want them to have hurt or pain or shame.
• 17:43
  Danae: Right.
• 17:43
  Danae: Yeah.
• 17:44
  Ellen: And
• 17:44
  Christie: so there are times where you do have to just say no, or, you know, draw
• 17:49
  Danae: a line.
• 17:50
  Danae: Yeah, yeah.
• 17:51
  Danae: That's what I was thinking that I would say to this mom is that.
• 17:54
  Danae: There are big consequences to some things.
• 17:57
  Danae: And so to really evaluate what you value and what is worth mm-hmm mm-hmm you know, standing your ground on.
• 18:06
  Danae: Choosing
• 18:07
  Ellen: your battles, like when they were, I was just gonna say that that's perfect.
• 18:10
  Ellen: Because I think, especially when we were talking about older kids, teens, and stuff, it's very hard because you do have to pick your battles because they'll make everything into a battle.
• 18:20
  Ellen: Right.
• 18:20
  Ellen: Mm-hmm you know, and so you have to decide, these are the couple of things I'm really gonna care about.
• 18:25
  Ellen: Mm-hmm and the, the
• 18:25
  Christie: battles you do choose to, to die on that hill and, and say, no, you're not going to this movie or, you know, party the shorts or whatever.
• 18:33
  Christie: I think it's really key to talk through with your kids.
• 18:37
  Christie: Why?
• 18:37
  Christie: Yes.
• 18:38
  Christie: Yes.
• 18:38
  Christie: Like explain to them.
• 18:40
  Christie: I want to say yes, but I can't because
• 18:42
  cheryl: of these, but see that's part, if we're gonna call it argument.
• 18:45
  cheryl: Mm-hmm mm-hmm this is a wonderful thing.
• 18:47
  cheryl: Mm-hmm that we disagree.
• 18:49
  cheryl: We talk through.
• 18:50
  cheryl: Yes.
• 18:51
  Ellen: Because I remember when one of my daughters was a teenager, she wanted to go to this party.
• 18:56
  Ellen: Well, I wasn't gonna let her go because I knew the group of people that were going.
• 18:59
  Ellen: And I said, no, and she was really unhappy.
• 19:01
  Ellen: And she nagged me a few times and I finally said, no, you're not going.
• 19:05
  Ellen: She came back two days later and she goes, mom, I.
• 19:08
  Ellen: I'm so glad you said no, I heard what went on in that party.
• 19:13
  Ellen: Wow.
• 19:13
  Ellen: And that would've been really weird, you know?
• 19:16
  Ellen: So that was just one you once in a while you get those parenting moments.
• 19:20
  Ellen: Not always.
• 19:21
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 19:21
  Ellen: Right.
• 19:21
  Ellen: But she actually could understand why I said no and that's good.
• 19:25
  Ellen: And you know,
• 19:25
  Christie: she, and sometimes that comeback doesn't happen for several years.
• 19:28
  Christie: It's true.
• 19:29
  Christie: That's true.
• 19:30
  Christie: But yeah, but it builds trust.
• 19:31
  Ellen: Right.
• 19:32
  Ellen: You know?
• 19:33
  Ellen: Your teen goes.
• 19:34
  Ellen: Oh, okay.
• 19:34
  Ellen: Well, my mom does know what she's talking
• 19:36
  Danae: about.
• 19:36
  Danae: Mm-hmm well, and I think when we disagree with our children, we can still be curious about.
• 19:44
  Danae: What they think and how they feel about it.
• 19:46
  Danae: Right.
• 19:47
  Danae: Yeah.
• 19:47
  Danae: Mm-hmm mm-hmm you know, and I'm gonna keep going back to the daughter with the shorts, but I imagine that she was wanting to wear those because all of her friends were wearing.
• 19:57
  Danae: Yeah.
• 19:57
  Danae: Yeah.
• 19:57
  Danae: So if so my value that I was coming with, you know, I mean, along with the fears, but the value was, you know, I think it's important for you to.
• 20:07
  Danae: Dress in a way that covers certain parts of your body.
• 20:11
  Danae: I thought I was being reasonable, you know, and if I sat and really listened to her, I'm, I'm assuming her, her value was, but mom, all my friends were wearing them and they may make fun of me or I feel left out and I already feel different.
• 20:25
  Danae: And so I could really listen and show her great empathy.
• 20:30
  Christie: Right.
• 20:31
  Christie: And then speak into that.
• 20:32
  Christie: Yeah.
• 20:33
  Christie: And then maybe even.
• 20:34
  Christie: find Other methods of whatever the desire, you know, the motive behind it on their end is mm-hmm we can say, well, let's, let's maybe look at
• 20:42
  cheryl: some other styles or so I'm listen that to today and that's handled so well.
• 20:48
  cheryl: How I wish I had done that 10 years
• 20:50
  Danae: later thinking about it.
• 20:52
  Danae: We're all geniuses
• 20:53
  cheryl: now, but it's.
• 20:56
  cheryl: You're not emotionally involved.
• 20:58
  cheryl: You're taking it personally.
• 20:59
  cheryl: That's right.
• 21:00
  cheryl: And you're thinking the big picture, not the big picture of fear, but the big picture of your daughter's heart.
• 21:06
  cheryl: Mm-hmm and it's
• 21:07
  Ellen: never the only thing on the plate at the time.
• 21:09
  Ellen: No.
• 21:09
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 21:10
  Ellen: You know, that's what I always,
• 21:11
  Danae: dinner has to be on the plate.
• 21:14
  Ellen: Store exactly.
• 21:15
  Ellen: You have other children that are bombarding you with issues, and you're trying to help.
• 21:20
  Ellen: This is a more important issue, but you, you know, you still have to make sure you didn't burn everything right.
• 21:25
  Cheryl (2): Exactly.
• 21:26
  Cheryl (2): No.
• 21:26
  Cheryl (2): So one thing that I learned particularly as a single mom is I could say.
• 21:33
  Cheryl (2): I don't have to make this decision now.
• 21:36
  Cheryl (2): Mm-hmm I don't have to resolve it.
• 21:37
  Cheryl (2): That's good.
• 21:38
  Cheryl (2): And so it took me way down emotionally.
• 21:42
  Cheryl (2): I could listen, we could discuss it.
• 21:43
  Cheryl (2): And then I would say, well, I'm gonna go think about it.
• 21:46
  Cheryl (2): I'm gonna pray about it and I'll get back.
• 21:48
  Cheryl (2): And.
• 21:48
  Cheryl (2): So in that age where they tend to be a little snarky.
• 21:51
  Cheryl (2): Oh, that just means no.
• 21:53
  Cheryl (2): Yeah.
• 21:53
  Cheryl (2): When you say that always means no, I go, no.
• 21:56
  Cheryl (2): Yeah.
• 21:56
  Cheryl (2): Okay.
• 21:57
  Cheryl (2): My delays are not my denials.
• 21:59
  Christie: Mm-hmm and I have said, if I have to answer this right now, I'm going to say no, because I don't have time to think through it.
• 22:04
  Christie: Yeah.
• 22:04
  Christie: There we go.
• 22:05
  Christie: And I kinda back later, I may give you yes.
• 22:07
  Christie: I just need to think about it.
• 22:08
  Christie: Mm-hmm
• 22:09
  cheryl: and then I had to be responsible.
• 22:11
  cheryl: To really do what I said, had to
• 22:13
  Ellen: remember to think about it.
• 22:14
  Danae: It always goes back to
• 22:15
  Christie: us.
• 22:16
  Christie: Doesn't well, and sometimes they change their mind in the waiting time.
• 22:18
  Christie: Yes.
• 22:18
  Christie: They'll come back and say, actually, they're not going to that movie after all.
• 22:23
  Danae: Yeah,
• 22:23
  cheryl: exactly.
• 22:24
  cheryl: And I mean,
• 22:26
  Cheryl (2): So one thing that
• 22:27
  cheryl: changed conversations, absolutely.
• 22:30
  cheryl: Somewhere later teens, and then certainly early twenties, particularly like mine that still lived at home in that age.
• 22:39
  cheryl: Limited the conversation to one subject mm-hmm and I was talking about what Rebecca did way back in the day.
• 22:45
  cheryl: Yeah.
• 22:45
  cheryl: Yeah.
• 22:45
  cheryl: I started actively saying that.
• 22:48
  cheryl: Okay.
• 22:49
  cheryl: Because we would be talking about one subject Well, mom, you never let me and suddenly we're talking about mm-hmm whatever else mm-hmm we're talking about curfew or whatever it is going to a certain party mm-hmm then it has to do with you.
• 23:01
  cheryl: Don't let me wear the clothes.
• 23:02
  cheryl: You don't do this.
• 23:03
  cheryl: You always control this.
• 23:04
  cheryl: You didn't let me, and I would just say just a minute.
• 23:08
  cheryl: We're talking about whether or not you can go to that party.
• 23:11
  cheryl: Right?
• 23:11
  cheryl: Mm-hmm we're gonna talk about that one subject I go write over there on the, this isn't the day where you actually had calendars I go there's my Cal.
• 23:21
  cheryl: You find a time and write on the calendar and we'll come back and discuss any one of those topics you want to.
• 23:27
  cheryl: That's good.
• 23:28
  cheryl: So when I started doing that, I did it numerous times.
• 23:31
  cheryl: Mm-hmm because they all do it all the time.
• 23:33
  cheryl: Mm-hmm yeah.
• 23:34
  cheryl: And I mean, any conversation or argument can devolve that
• 23:36
  Christie: way.
• 23:37
  Cheryl (2): Exactly.
• 23:38
  cheryl: Guess how many times someone followed up on it?
• 23:41
  cheryl: Zero, zero.
• 23:42
  cheryl: Really?
• 23:42
  cheryl: It was one single time.
• 23:45
  Christie: Because it's a manipulation tactic
• 23:47
  cheryl: evens.
• 23:48
  cheryl: It was a winning
• 23:48
  Ellen: tactic.
• 23:48
  Ellen: Mm-hmm mm-hmm and in the moment in their mind, it seemed really important.
• 23:54
  Ellen: it really wasn't.
• 23:54
  Ellen: But at moment it was
• 23:56
  Christie: Well, and I can be guilty of it.
• 23:57
  Christie: I can say.
• 23:58
  Christie: And another thing, your room has been a mess and this, and so I had to hold
• 24:04
  cheryl: myself accountable and not pursue.
• 24:06
  cheryl: Again, not feeling the pressure that we have to do it right now.
• 24:10
  cheryl: Mm-hmm we can choose our time.
• 24:11
  cheryl: Mm-hmm this isn't really good.
• 24:13
  cheryl: I'm gonna walk away from this right now.
• 24:15
  cheryl: My emotions are too, too high right now.
• 24:17
  cheryl: I want to talk to you about this, but I can pursue it right
• 24:22
  Ellen: now.
• 24:22
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 24:22
  Ellen: I learned, I had to send myself to my room.
• 24:25
  Ellen: you know, not as bad to your room.
• 24:28
  Danae: I
• 24:28
  Ellen: know.
• 24:29
  Ellen: Yes.
• 24:29
  Ellen: As a child, it was always sent to my room, but then I realized, you know, I'm the adult.
• 24:33
  Ellen: I have to withdraw from this because I'm angry or frustrated, or I don't have an answer.
• 24:39
  Ellen: Mm-hmm and I just go in my room and I literally sit in my chair, take some deep breaths.
• 24:44
  Ellen: I might not even think about anything, but I just need the break in the emotions.
• 24:48
  Christie: I have this visual of like playing tug of war with a toddler.
• 24:52
  Christie: And like at any time, you know, you could just yank that rope and win you.
• 24:56
  Christie: You have the power to do that?
• 24:58
  Christie: But if you're playing with a toddler, you're gonna be strategic and a little harder tag and a softer tag here harder so that it challenges them.
• 25:07
  Christie: Yeah.
• 25:07
  Christie: But then softer so that you can, it doesn't hurt them.
• 25:10
  Christie: Yeah.
• 25:10
  Christie: And give them some, some growth or area room for growth.
• 25:14
  Danae: Actually, this is, um, about my daughter who has an intellectual disability is kind of going back to you've probably heard me share about going to the coffee shop with one of my daughters.
• 25:25
  Danae: Well, um, This other daughter and I, we can get into arguments because I'm asking her to do something and she doesn't wanna do it right then, or why are you always on me and that type of thing.
• 25:37
  Danae: And I I've been needing to brainstorm with her and talk about some things with her future, and that can bring up a lot of fear in me, kind of the fear I've been talking about and so I know I'm coming emotional.
• 25:52
  Danae: And so she loves.
• 25:54
  Danae: Anything music, she's a beautiful singer.
• 25:56
  Danae: And so we were going to an event at the civic center and through a little job that she and I did together.
• 26:03
  Danae: We got some extra money, so we got dressed up and went out to dinner.
• 26:08
  Danae: Oh.
• 26:08
  Danae: And she.
• 26:10
  Danae: was so open to talk about all of these things about her future.
• 26:15
  Danae: And I, so I was just reminded again, of getting into that different space than your house.
• 26:21
  Danae: Yes.
• 26:21
  Danae: Yeah.
• 26:22
  Danae: She and I function very much.
• 26:23
  Danae: Mom and daughter and mom don't tell me what to do, even though she's older mm-hmm and just be, we were grownups and I was able to that to her, you know, after we talked like this was so fun having this.
• 26:35
  Danae: Adult time with you.
• 26:36
  Danae: Thank you for sharing with me, these thoughts and feelings.
• 26:40
  Danae: I love that.
• 26:40
  Danae: And so just kind of a practical note about that, and I think you can, you can start that when they're young is, is go somewhere, they think they would like, you know, that's coffee, ice cream.
• 26:52
  Danae: After dinner at the park or something,
• 26:54
  Ellen: we used to call it a special time because with five kids, you're trying to juggle everything.
• 26:59
  Ellen: Tell it over time.
• 26:59
  Ellen: Mm-hmm so we would schedule between Mike and I every week, someone would get an hour or two where we would go.
• 27:08
  Ellen: Get coffee and ice cream or whatever.
• 27:10
  Ellen: It was only that child mm-hmm And we started that pretty young.
• 27:14
  Ellen: And so we always kind of had, you know, okay, it's your turn for your special time?
• 27:18
  Ellen: You know, not every kid got it every week, but over the month, everybody got a specific time and sometimes they just wanted to eat ice cream.
• 27:26
  Ellen: Other times they were happy to talk mm-hmm cause they weren't in competition with brothers and sisters and
• 27:32
  Christie: you know, well, and I think when.
• 27:34
  Christie: Develop that environment of trust and relationship first, then those things do fall on a little bit more fertile ground, the arguing arguments.
• 27:43
  Christie: Mm-hmm, they're more likely to see us as their, you know, not friend in buddy way, but like more friendly and compassionate.
• 27:51
  Christie: Yes.
• 27:52
  Ellen: Bat.
• 27:52
  Ellen: That's good.
• 27:53
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 27:53
  Ellen: I was gonna say they would see Mike and I, we always took date nights and we, you know, we still do.
• 27:58
  Ellen: So they saw that, oh, we're treasuring.
• 28:01
  Ellen: This time together.
• 28:02
  Ellen: No one else is allowed in it.
• 28:03
  Ellen: So then they understood when it was their special time.
• 28:06
  Ellen: We're doing the same thing.
• 28:07
  Ellen: We're saying this is your time of UN divided attention with each other.
• 28:12
  Ellen: No one can interrupt it.
• 28:13
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 28:13
  Danae: When I'm hearing Ellen say.
• 28:15
  Danae: Is that means I have to be working on myself.
• 28:19
  Danae: Yes.
• 28:19
  Danae: And I communicating well, and that's gonna show up a lot in our adult relationships.
• 28:25
  Danae: Mm-hmm so how's conflict going with your adult relationships, you know, mm-hmm and work on.
• 28:31
  Danae: On yourself.
• 28:31
  Danae: Mm-hmm with that.
• 28:32
  Danae: And then take those opportunities with your teens to do the tug of war with more control.
• 28:38
  Danae: Then you can teach them, Hey, I don't mind you showing your emotions, but how about if you say, when you do this, it makes me feel this way versus just mom, blah, blah, blah.
• 28:47
  Christie: Eventually our kids are going to be adults.
• 28:49
  Christie: Yes.
• 28:50
  Christie: And we're going to have those adult relationships with them and we need to be controlled enough.
• 28:55
  Christie: Yeah.
• 28:56
  Christie: To be respectful of them and not.
• 28:59
  Christie: Well, I,
• 29:00
  Ellen: them, with all those opinion, I was gonna say, I've had my teens respectfully tell me that I probably needed to go to my room.
• 29:06
  Ellen: no, and, and they that's
• 29:07
  Christie: great.
• 29:07
  Christie: They were being
• 29:08
  Ellen: res I didn't, I wasn't offended by that.
• 29:10
  Ellen: They were right.
• 29:11
  Ellen: They could see that I was getting really heated cuz I'm probably the highest emotional person in our family.
• 29:17
  Ellen: Mm-hmm so they could see, you know, Hey mom, why don't you just go think about it for a little bit.
• 29:22
  Ellen: Mm-hmm and you know, basically they're saying go to your room.
• 29:25
  Danae: Yeah.
• 29:25
  Danae: I've had.
• 29:26
  Danae: Say mom, you're getting really defensive mm-hmm and then now I can joke about it and I'll be like, Jim, it gets me really defensive it's when you tell me how defensive about being Exactly.
• 29:36
  Danae: I think once I said that to one of them, it's kind of like the power of that on both of us broke, because now it's a joke
• 29:45
  Christie: because you're seeing each other's human.
• 29:46
  Christie: Yes, yes.
• 29:47
  cheryl: Yeah.
• 29:48
  cheryl: Okay.
• 29:49
  cheryl: as we go to wrap up mm-hmm again, it looks like.
• 29:52
  cheryl: All the things that we say that we have to work on ourselves.
• 29:55
  cheryl: Yes.
• 29:56
  cheryl: Keep our emotions under control.
• 29:58
  cheryl: Mm-hmm look at the really big picture.
• 30:01
  cheryl: Mm-hmm it's not the party.
• 30:02
  cheryl: It's not the shorts.
• 30:04
  cheryl: It's not the clean room.
• 30:06
  cheryl: It's developing our child into the person we want'em to be.
• 30:10
  cheryl: And, but not
• 30:12
  Ellen: agenda driven.
• 30:13
  Ellen: Okay for about that.
• 30:14
  Ellen: Well, we can have our own agenda with an argument and we are gonna make our point regardless.
• 30:19
  cheryl: Oh, I meant inside of me.
• 30:21
  cheryl: Well, I, my agenda is I want to love this child.
• 30:23
  cheryl: Well, right.
• 30:24
  cheryl: But I'm
• 30:24
  Ellen: saying if I have the wrong agenda.
• 30:26
  Ellen: Oh, that's what I saying.
• 30:27
  Ellen: Knowing my own heart.
• 30:28
  Ellen: Okay.
• 30:29
  Ellen: why am I opposed to this?
• 30:31
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 30:31
  Ellen: Is my agenda fear.
• 30:32
  Ellen: Mm-hmm you know, and I'm, I'm working out of that or I just don't want this kid to go do that cuz of
• 30:38
  Danae: reputation control it.
• 30:40
  Danae: Yeah.
• 30:40
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 30:41
  Ellen: All sorts of those.
• 30:42
  Ellen: And so I've always constantly have to check my own agenda and so, well, what am I thinking?
• 30:46
  Ellen: What am, why am I responding this way?
• 30:48
  Ellen: Very good.
• 30:48
  Ellen: That sounds good.
• 30:49
  Christie: Um, well I was thinking a lot of things lately.
• 30:52
  Christie: I've had to humble myself on and come.
• 30:55
  Christie: To my kids and say, oh yes, I was wrong about that.
• 30:58
  Christie: Mm-hmm you know, we argued in, in about this one thing.
• 31:01
  Christie: And now that I think more about it, I was wrong about that.
• 31:04
  Christie: and that's hard.
• 31:06
  Christie: Yeah.
• 31:06
  Christie: We think it's really
• 31:07
  Danae: powerful, but I'm also thinking about this mom.
• 31:10
  Danae: We don't know what this argument is.
• 31:12
  Danae: Yeah.
• 31:12
  Danae: Mm-hmm Yeah, but I do want to say that you're the parent mm-hmm and that an argument that's going on and on and on It needs to be stopped, right?
• 31:23
  Danae: Yeah.
• 31:23
  Danae: You know, it needs to be.
• 31:25
  Danae: I mean, you decide and then come to the child, you know, and say, this is what I've decided.
• 31:31
  Danae: I've heard you, you know, if you've taken that time, I've heard you I've listened.
• 31:35
  Danae: Well, I see the argument on your side.
• 31:37
  Danae: However, this is what we're going to do.
• 31:39
  Danae: And then I, I wouldn't allow any space for that argument to continue and to continue
• 31:45
  Ellen: to
• 31:45
  cheryl: continue.
• 31:45
  cheryl: That's very good.
• 31:46
  cheryl: Yes.
• 31:46
  cheryl: Very good.
• 31:47
  cheryl: That's good.
• 31:47
  cheryl: Even, and as they get older, it may be.
• 31:50
  cheryl: We're not coming to a resolution,
• 31:52
  Christie: right?
• 31:53
  Christie: This is just a topic we don't need to discuss.
• 31:55
  cheryl: Mm-hmm let's not what are philosophically or about the world or politics.
• 32:00
  cheryl: Mm-hmm mm-hmm all of that.
• 32:01
  cheryl: We may just have to agree to let it go.
• 32:05
  cheryl: Mm-hmm mm-hmm and work in relationships.
• 32:06
  cheryl: Mm-hmm fantastic.
• 32:07
  cheryl: I wish I had been speaking.
• 32:09
  cheryl: My family was Aja.
• 32:11
  cheryl: My life.
• 32:11
  cheryl: Yes.
• 32:13
  cheryl: A long time ago.
• 32:15
  cheryl: Thanks again, moms just like this, be sure you send us your questions.
• 32:19
  cheryl: Mm-hmm we would love to talk about it.
• 32:21
  cheryl: Mm-hmm so Remember even when there's conflict, hang in there, keep loving, keep persevering because it's worth it.