Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to the generous Toby Hadoke about his choice of Dr Who & the Silurians (1/7)

Transcript

Talks to the generous Toby Hadoke about his choice of Dr Who & the Silurians (1/7) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:40
  Welcome back to live the Doctor Who commentary podcast Toby mr.
• 0:47
  Toby hello. Hello.
• 0:49
  Hello, Joe. Nice to see you.
• 0:51
  How are you? I'm a bit chilly today.
• 0:53
  I'm on. I'm standing on windley more.
• 0:57
  Oh, and there seems to be an irritating noise sounding a bit
• 1:02
  like a kazoo in the background. Well, I think I know how to do
• 1:08
  this job. I think I'm learning to speak
• 1:09
  your language. Are you telling me that you and
• 1:12
  a friend have polished your helmets, anticipation of going
• 1:16
  into a wet dark Cavern? Frequently.
• 1:20
  Yes, good, that's good. They say it's on you.
• 1:24
  I could do this a lot of evenings and that way, you know
• 1:28
  what have I done to you? I'll do I'm doing this to
• 1:31
  everybody now the rap erupted. Stop it.
• 1:37
  You know. Hello, how you doing today?
• 1:44
  I'm alright, thanks. Yeah.
• 1:46
  Yeah, I'm all right, yeah, I'm looking forward to seeing this.
• 1:48
  I'm a bit bushwhacked, I'm trying to write this, this, this
• 1:52
  quatermass book. I've essentially taken February
• 1:54
  off in order to just right from morning till sort of afternoon
• 1:59
  because I get a bit tired and then I'll maybe podcast or do
• 2:01
  something else in the evening. But I'd say, I'm getting old.
• 2:05
  I think Joe, I think my concentration is not what it was
• 2:08
  and great. If you're a doctor who fan
• 2:11
  you'll never get old. I do, I do know.
• 2:16
  It's certainly not this the chapter I'm working on at the
• 2:19
  moment. I'm, I kind of set myself, you
• 2:21
  know, two days to polish off and I'm still doing it and we're,
• 2:25
  you know, we nearly two weeks into February, so it's going to
• 2:28
  be a long February. But if I, even if I don't get
• 2:33
  done as much as I wanted to get done, if I continue doing what
• 2:35
  I'm doing by the end of February, I will have got more
• 2:38
  done than I had done at the beginning of February, but we're
• 2:41
  looking to push it in. Of May or June, because
• 2:45
  quatermass is 70 in July and so. So I really do need to stop
• 2:49
  thinking about it and, and, and, and do it, but it's, it's a bit
• 2:53
  of a grind, you know. It's not like, writing fiction
• 2:55
  like, writing jokes, where you can sort of, you know, freeform
• 2:59
  and have fun. And, you know, this, I have to
• 3:01
  get dates rights. I have to find bits of
• 3:03
  information. I have to put them all together
• 3:05
  so that they cohere and it's, yeah, it's a long old haul.
• 3:09
  So, I hope some people buy it. Well, I know, I will offer the
• 3:15
  education that you gave me on My Hands.
• 3:17
  Director episode about quite Mass.
• 3:19
  I'm looking forward to learning about it in even more detail.
• 3:24
  And I know I saw some feedback of some people.
• 3:27
  When you put the link up to the YouTube video, people are a bit
• 3:31
  hungry for this. Are they some people are well, I
• 3:35
  hope so. I hope so.
• 3:37
  I think it's worth the being a good book out there.
• 3:40
  And I hope the book I'm writing is It.
• 3:43
  But I do, I do tend to disappear down rabbit holes joso so where
• 3:49
  some people you know, might to do an act as by org just nip on
• 3:54
  to IMDb and to a select five or six credits I've got into
• 4:00
  currently I'm gone into a bit more detail than that.
• 4:02
  Also on every single actor, that's credited in quatermass.
• 4:07
  Wow, it may be that. My editor looks at those bits
• 4:09
  and goes we don't need to know about the man who played Tipsy
• 4:12
  man. Man, in episode one of the
• 4:15
  crates bass experiment. Well I I do deserves a record at
• 4:22
  the time. Okay.
• 4:25
  Yeah, so we'll see. We'll see how much of that stays
• 4:30
  is. Certainly not going to
• 4:30
  under-run, in terms of word count.
• 4:33
  But you know, you have to one has to one has to surrender to
• 4:37
  one's editor and if you know, if I know what I would like to
• 4:43
  read, but I also know that that that I perhaps have quite
• 4:47
  bespoke tastes and that, that most people don't perhaps need
• 4:51
  to to go into as much detail and also I think I do the narcissist
• 4:56
  thing of I, sort of stole my working.
• 4:57
  So instead of just going on on this day, this happened, I've
• 5:01
  sort of been going on on this day at this piece of paperwork,
• 5:04
  says, it looks like this happened, but actually I've dug
• 5:06
  a little bit further and that didn't happen.
• 5:08
  And then and so then I sort of come to the conclusion.
• 5:11
  Now, it may be less, less less, vanity is required to just go on
• 5:14
  this day, this happens. But then there's a part of me
• 5:16
  that knows goes. But if I do that somebody on
• 5:19
  Twitter, will then go. Oh yeah.
• 5:20
  But what about what it says on this bit of paperwork I said,
• 5:22
  well yeah. So I'm I'm sort of I'm heading
• 5:26
  off imaginary Twitter criticism, which is not a way to live.
• 5:30
  There's no way to live Joe. You can't live thinking, I
• 5:32
  better not say that. In case someone anchor on
• 5:34
  Twitter, I think you'll find me. I do what I think you're pretty
• 5:39
  unfiltered as well and your podcast which I really really
• 5:41
  love. Although I've heard you say that
• 5:42
  if you don't could crave, should I say, like, what the hell is
• 5:46
  going to be the backlash or this?
• 5:47
  You know, I think you might have made a buying for yourself
• 5:49
  because everybody in my circle, I was at the pub yesterday.
• 5:53
  You have to listen to this for a second.
• 5:54
  So, I'll do apologize. I know you're very British and
• 5:56
  you don't like a compliment but I was in the pub and we was
• 5:59
  talking about your too much information and the people just
• 6:03
  can't get enough of the detail, you know?
• 6:06
  So I think you've made a buying for yourself in now.
• 6:08
  The expectation is this books coming out and it's gonna be a
• 6:11
  lot. These are all of people of
• 6:13
  people going to be disappointed. Oh good.
• 6:16
  Well, that's okay. At the end of the day I tend to
• 6:18
  think the thing to do and this is a comedians trick actually
• 6:23
  and all Comics go through this where they often make the
• 6:28
  mistake of doing what they think the audience, what they think
• 6:32
  the audience wants from them. So I would, I would sort of
• 6:35
  backed off and go on and, and pretend not to be as middle
• 6:38
  class as I am. And I tried be a bit sort of
• 6:40
  more Rough and Tumble, and try and get some sort of course, in
• 6:42
  myself up a bit because I think, although I know, Actually, I
• 6:45
  became a much better comedian when if anything I was on it or
• 6:49
  actually if anything I exactly exaggerated those things that I
• 6:54
  thought people wouldn't, like, I actually made a virtue of them
• 6:57
  rather than tried to hide them. And with the, with the Doctor,
• 7:00
  Who certainly with moths, you know, actually not hiding behind
• 7:05
  anything and just doing the in the day, doing what I thought I
• 7:08
  would like, but you sort of got. And so now I kind of go a
• 7:11
  largest is it's the same with the documentaries.
• 7:15
  I wanted to find out what happened to Peter are Newman, so
• 7:18
  I managed to get a budget in which to do that.
• 7:20
  So now I just make the programs or the podcasts and that's the
• 7:24
  beauty of podcast because it's such a crowded Market.
• 7:28
  I hate that word that you just you go.
• 7:30
  Well, it doesn't matter if some people who want a doctor who
• 7:33
  podcast, don't want what I do, because they'll be catered for
• 7:35
  somewhere else. All I can do is what I do and
• 7:38
  what I like. And if people do like it, that's
• 7:40
  lovely. And if they don't, well, they're
• 7:42
  catered For brilliantly by other people who do Different things
• 7:45
  and that's that's all well and good.
• 7:46
  That's the lovely Democratic nature of the podcasting, but
• 7:50
  it's also an indicator to just to do what you do and try not to
• 7:56
  worry about it. Although as I know because we
• 7:59
  have a little private conversations on Facebook, so
• 8:01
  not worrying is not something that comes easily to me.
• 8:06
  What would you say? I promise you guys, we will
• 8:09
  start talking about folks who in the silurians in a minute, but,
• 8:12
  you know, this happens when you and I get together.
• 8:15
  I still think one of the most extraordinary podcast you put
• 8:18
  out was the one about alcohol in Doctor Who.
• 8:23
  Yeah. And I was brace myself to listen
• 8:25
  to that and then when I finished I thought it was extraordinarily
• 8:29
  moving and really funny and that's a hard lines to kind of
• 8:34
  trade. But it was the I want the the
• 8:38
  vulnerability in it. That was so interesting.
• 8:41
  And I both in a lot of people would go there.
• 8:45
  I worried about it because I do also slightly mistrust this
• 8:49
  world. We live in where we share
• 8:51
  everything and we also expect everybody to cater for our
• 8:56
  vulnerabilities student. You know what I mean?
• 8:58
  II worry about going down that Hill because I sometimes see
• 9:02
  that, you know, the vulnerable can turn into the dictator then
• 9:06
  and go well if you don't, you know, if you, you know, if
• 9:11
  you're not cognizant of my mind, Needs your some, you're
• 9:16
  oppressing me or whatever. And I and I do sometimes worry
• 9:20
  about because share it, booze is a funny.
• 9:24
  One alcoholism is a is a funny one because it's, it's, it's a
• 9:28
  concurrent process of going. This has to be all about me.
• 9:32
  It's the only way I can sort it out but also I'm spectacularly
• 9:37
  unimportant. And I need to get over myself.
• 9:39
  And those two things seem like a contradiction because you're one
• 9:43
  hand going. I need to Typically sort of
• 9:45
  self-care and on the other hand you're going and I need to stop
• 9:49
  worrying about myself and think about the world and the fact
• 9:52
  that I'm not a very important part of it and then you realize
• 9:55
  not to worry so much about yourself.
• 9:58
  And and so doing doing a podcast about being a boozer and tying
• 10:03
  it in with Doctor Who I've tried to do is stand up where you sort
• 10:06
  of talk about you talk about I've talked tried to talk about
• 10:11
  drink and it's a difficult one because it puts the audience
• 10:14
  like Leon Edge because they go forward I don't either I don't
• 10:17
  think about this or I'm uncomfortable with this level of
• 10:20
  honesty. And so as an exercise, I just
• 10:22
  wanted to see if I could make it funny it was and if I could tie
• 10:25
  in with Doctor Who because you can't I anything in with doctors
• 10:28
  and I think the podcast is a slightly better medium for it
• 10:32
  because you're not in a room full of people going.
• 10:34
  Well, this is awkward. Yeah.
• 10:36
  There's there's there's an intimacy isn't there between you
• 10:38
  and The Listener as well. It's sort of a one-on-one.
• 10:42
  Yeah. And I hope I hope that in well,
• 10:47
  I mean my main hope is to be entertaining and to make people
• 10:50
  laugh but I've found and this was through WhatsApp my Doctor
• 10:54
  Who scarf if I'm if I'm sort of honest about my experience while
• 10:59
  people can always see through fake stuff anyway, but I don't
• 11:03
  mind I don't mind talking about myself and my sometimes people
• 11:07
  go I was terribly bravery to go. Well, I'm not sure it is.
• 11:10
  It's it's people who like the sound of their own voices
• 11:13
  voices. To be the center of attention.
• 11:15
  Quite enjoy talking about themselves.
• 11:17
  So I'm not sure, I'm not sure. That's my definition of brave,
• 11:21
  but obviously, alcohol is quite an awkward one, but I just as an
• 11:24
  intellectual exercise to go, well, I'll see if I can make
• 11:26
  that funny. I was quite, yeah, that was
• 11:29
  quite, I was quite that. It was quite fun to see how that
• 11:31
  turned out. That's the sort of thing I
• 11:33
  learned as well. So, I did give me sort of Punjab
• 11:36
  country recently and that went out about two weeks before I
• 11:41
  lost my mum and long story. A show.
• 11:45
  I found it really, really moving because it was dealing with
• 11:48
  death and you know what happens after these aliens coming in and
• 11:52
  some of it, okay, she didn't believe in aliens coming along
• 11:54
  at the moment of death but some fits how I didn't to some of her
• 11:59
  beliefs. And so I sort of dropped all
• 12:02
  that information that and I had a conversation with a podcaster
• 12:05
  a couple of days ago, we did a podcast and he said something,
• 12:07
  because I'm going to cover how, but don't be afraid to be
• 12:10
  vulnerable, but don't sit there are in your dirty laundry.
• 12:14
  Free but like I think sometimes it's quite healthy and I have
• 12:18
  side. I love that piece and I it was
• 12:20
  funny but you said something as well in there which really
• 12:24
  really made me think one point. You said you know how much you
• 12:27
  loved it when you're having a drink, you know, and and to say
• 12:31
  that as a recovery. But that's incredible
• 12:34
  incredible. Anyway, I'm going to take us
• 12:37
  back. He's done.
• 12:44
  Yeah, well you I mean you can't lie, you know, I'd love to be
• 12:48
  able to go. Hi, don't miss it at all all.
• 12:51
  And I thought that would be a lie.
• 12:53
  Of course I do. And there's no point.
• 12:56
  There's, you know, there's no, there's no point tonight.
• 12:59
  There's no point denying reality.
• 13:00
  I wanted to deny reality. I watch seven episodes of Doctor
• 13:04
  Who see what I did there. Are you very close?
• 13:07
  Yeah, welcome. Well, okay, we will go into our
• 13:10
  so one the second. But I've got a quick question
• 13:12
  for you before we do. Do and that is, yeah.
• 13:15
  Do you think that from the war games to spearhead from space?
• 13:23
  Is that the most dramatic tonal shift that dr.
• 13:28
  Whoever had between Seasons. Well this this thought is fresh
• 13:33
  in my mind because I have been doing the gardening this
• 13:35
  afternoon and I was listening to you doing Meg loss and I think
• 13:40
  don't don't don't you guys bring it up a lot or Planet because
• 13:43
  I've listened to Do planet of evil and make lost today.
• 13:46
  You did and you were talking about it and he talks war
• 13:50
  machines to War Games to spearhead.
• 13:52
  You also talked season 24 to 25 and you talk season 17 to season
• 13:57
  18, I think and having done running through corridors where
• 14:04
  I did actually you know, watch in order every day.
• 14:10
  To, you know, to get a feel of it unfolding.
• 14:12
  Although in a speeded-up way, the the most seismic change,
• 14:17
  excuse me, to me, did seem to be this cosmetic changes and
• 14:21
  obviously tonal changes between 17 and 18 which are which are
• 14:25
  quite huge but you still do have the same doctor and companion 24
• 14:31
  to 25. Well it's just like they seem to
• 14:33
  have worked out how to make it slightly better.
• 14:34
  Yeah, I mean that you know in terms of production good got
• 14:39
  well. Alive.
• 14:40
  I'm just doing remembrance for my podcast.
• 14:42
  Funny enough and absolutely loving it and going gosh, this
• 14:46
  is a he's like a different program to because I've already
• 14:49
  done dragon fire and I feel a bit sorry for dragon fire but I
• 14:52
  would say that some of it is today barely transmittable
• 14:55
  whereas remembrance actually holds up extremely well.
• 15:00
  I think just because it's black and white to color just because
• 15:03
  spearhead is all on film just because it's complete change of
• 15:06
  personnel. I think it has to be, I think
• 15:08
  all games to spare. It is an extraordinary change,
• 15:13
  its and, of course, there's no story quite like spearhead.
• 15:16
  Although, you know, the production values of the
• 15:20
  subsequent three are still quite strong because they're all seven
• 15:22
  partners and they've amortized the budget in a clever way.
• 15:24
  And there's still quite a lot of film even though they're not all
• 15:26
  on film and they've got that sort of grid gritty.
• 15:30
  As far as Doctor Who is concerned flavor that then goes
• 15:34
  away for the the let's and dicks era which comes a bit more meaty
• 15:37
  and charming and And bizarre, Yankee, but winky but, but yeah,
• 15:44
  but I think, I just gotta know what, I'm just.
• 15:47
  Yeah, and the doctor, they have quite a sort of dynamic between
• 15:56
  them. It was like, swallowing down
• 16:04
  like a whole load of skills in one go.
• 16:06
  Was it? You that said that, I think Rob
• 16:09
  might say, Okay. Yeah, it does.
• 16:14
  Yeah, after it, certainly after Inferno, but no quarrel games to
• 16:19
  spearhead is a huge change and it's a very smart revivification
• 16:24
  of the show and I love season 7, although I acknowledge that, not
• 16:28
  all Doctor Who Could Be Like season 7 much in the same way as
• 16:31
  I love the caves of androzani. Although I acknowledge that not
• 16:36
  all Doctor Who could be like the caves of androzani funny though.
• 16:40
  You do a lot of what I love about Doctor Who is that?
• 16:42
  It's a story. That exists in the great Mosaic
• 16:45
  of Doctor Who that is almost a typical and you go, but it's
• 16:48
  only because of the broad canvas of Doctor Who that this story
• 16:51
  can exist and therefore, I love it.
• 16:53
  More than I might love a more typical Doctor Who story.
• 16:55
  But then what is a typical Doctor?
• 16:57
  Who story? I'm still not sure.
• 16:59
  I know I think they were out there all moments of humor in
• 17:03
  series 7 but honey it does feel like the most serious season of
• 17:09
  Doctor Who and and in many ways the most adult season because
• 17:12
  it's It's sort of mature storytelling, its adult ideas, I
• 17:18
  think even the length of these seven parters and and how much
• 17:21
  time they have to sort of delve into the characters and feels
• 17:24
  like that the fat is set on earth like it's just nothing
• 17:27
  else quite like is that in the Run?
• 17:32
  and I sometimes wonder if because I think the Doctor Who
• 17:35
  means so many things to so many different people and the stories
• 17:38
  that we like have so many different contexts to what why
• 17:43
  we like them or why we might not or why they're special to us and
• 17:46
  why they're not enough and it can be that can be so
• 17:49
  individual, you know, you know, we might have all come from the
• 17:53
  same store to the same story one when we were a kid one, when it
• 17:58
  was on super Channel, another when it was on VHS another one
• 18:01
  now and it was on Blu-ray and it and you know that at different
• 18:04
  points in our lives and all of that.
• 18:06
  And I think because I lived in the shadow of the cancellation
• 18:11
  because I am the youngest of four and my Elder Brothers had
• 18:15
  like Doctor Who. But had put away childish,
• 18:17
  things, there was very much a desire in me for Doctor Who to
• 18:20
  be taken seriously, and to not be a Children's Program because
• 18:23
  I was the youngest I didn't want to be seen as a kid that the
• 18:27
  Hiatus at meant, that Doctor Who Was Not.
• 18:30
  It's by the upper echelons of the BBC.
• 18:32
  So I wanted it to be good and people to take it seriously, as
• 18:36
  that went on, you know, is less loved by the general public.
• 18:39
  So I always watch Doctor Who thinking, well, but if the
• 18:41
  general public in inverted commas, watch this.
• 18:43
  They like it. They see that it was good.
• 18:45
  So I wanted know, sort of little dips in production value or no
• 18:49
  bit. That might jar to a modern
• 18:50
  audience because I would fantasize about.
• 18:52
  You know, everyone suddenly walking in, when I was watching
• 18:54
  a doctor and go, oh, Toby, you're right.
• 18:57
  It is good after all. And then the world would be a
• 18:59
  better place and Doctor, Who would be loved.
• 19:01
  So the more serious and the more grown up in inverted commas like
• 19:05
  season 7, like the Hinchcliffe and home 0 are the ones that I
• 19:09
  seem to be forgiving most of, because they're the ones, I
• 19:13
  think that may be fulfilled. Those criteria for me to say you
• 19:17
  would not be disappointed with this season with those greater
• 19:21
  China will, you just said there about being scared about people
• 19:23
  walking in, there was a Nothin, I wanna Rush, tell you the story
• 19:27
  or the moment because it's such an agonizing.
• 19:30
  Moment now at for adult eyes but I have this bit that I just was
• 19:34
  desperate for someone to walk in and say just to see just how
• 19:37
  amazing doctor who is a nice to rewind this bit and wait for my
• 19:40
  mother to walk in the room and I shall see you in a minute.
• 19:43
  You'll see actual absolutely love it.
• 19:45
  It was in Survival episode 3. I'm not going to tell you what
• 19:47
  the beers but it's a terrible moment.
• 19:52
  Now, it's very not going to tell me which is the bit where ice is
• 19:56
  going. Whether you know what, all the
• 19:58
  the supposedly Athletic-looking. Some gymnast are advancing on
• 20:04
  ice and she's screaming, you know, help me to me through my
• 20:08
  young eyes that was the height of drama, you know, that was my
• 20:13
  moment. Really shameful.
• 20:18
  Is he? Oh bless.
• 20:22
  Oh well I'm glad I'm not I'm glad I wasn't the only one that
• 20:25
  was. That was you know rewinding and
• 20:28
  and hoping that somebody walked in at a particular Point what
• 20:32
  alert you and I could talk and talk.
• 20:34
  I'm going to skip as into episode 1, if you are ready.
• 20:39
  Okey-dokey ready when you are. So I will count as in then, in
• 20:44
  five, four, three, two, one. And off we go.
• 20:54
  So, when do you remember first watching this?
• 21:00
  Well this is all wrong for me. You see?
• 21:01
  Joe because this is in color and for me when I first saw Doctor
• 21:05
  Who in the silurians it was in black and white.
• 21:07
  I was iced, I started getting bootleg videos from a comic job
• 21:13
  of Hampton called the place and I live miles away from
• 21:15
  Wolverhampton, but I had a friend who is a is a builder,
• 21:18
  who would go and get, go to the cash-and-carry there, to get his
• 21:21
  supplies and I seen it was going to Wolverhampton and and there
• 21:24
  was adverts for the place in this Doctor Who magazine.
• 21:27
  So, what you basically drop me off there and anyway, long and
• 21:29
  the short of it. It the guy, they're did videos
• 21:32
  and I got heartburn and trout and first because they were, you
• 21:35
  know, ancient and old in the best, I thought, well, I should
• 21:37
  get some purpose and I said to him, which one's best and he
• 21:41
  went, oh, Doctor Who in the silurians.
• 21:42
  And that really surprised me because it was, I kind of knew
• 21:45
  it from the book. I realized later it's because it
• 21:49
  was easier for him to run off a seven parter rice, y, here x.
• 21:56
  But so this was the first Full length, but we, I had, I think,
• 22:04
  but it was in black and white from an Australian print,
• 22:07
  gorgeous quality. I mean, much better quality than
• 22:10
  the than the stories are but you student and, and, in a way
• 22:13
  possibly much better quality than the, than the color.
• 22:15
  We now have, because it's a sort of compromised color, although,
• 22:18
  this is looking better than the first attempts at color that I
• 22:22
  saw many years ago. So, it was what I had on on
• 22:25
  video for a long time. Do you?
• 22:28
  But it. Well, I mean, you can't
• 22:37
  appreciate it unless you've seen it in the original black and
• 22:40
  white to misquote General Christopher, Plummer from that
• 22:44
  Star Trek film. I I certainly.
• 22:53
  Think it works in black and white and it worked because I
• 22:55
  had it in such good quality. That was a real difference
• 22:58
  because so much of what I was watching at that time was
• 23:00
  compromised by multi-generational, you know
• 23:03
  metamorphosis, whereas this was pretty much one generation off
• 23:07
  are so it was glorious and it does work in black and white by
• 23:12
  had a bootleg copy. So my idea was up in Scotland.
• 23:16
  I think he listens to this podcast now.
• 23:18
  So Darren I know you're listening.
• 23:19
  All right, and he Let me down, I think it's a scotch long-play
• 23:25
  tape with Doctor Who and the silurians on it and honest to
• 23:29
  God, it was like looking through mud watching the thing.
• 23:34
  I really. Yeah, it was it was it wasn't
• 23:37
  Great Khali but I think are honestly, I was looking out for
• 23:39
  skin type of I was examining this thing in microscopic detail
• 23:43
  and it was you know, it was Doctor Who from before my time,
• 23:47
  you know, I was desperate to see it.
• 23:51
  Yes, although unusually for me because this was one that I had
• 23:53
  the book of as well. I was never quite as excited to
• 23:58
  collect the ones that I felt, I sort of knew and because this
• 24:02
  was one of the early books as well, doctor in the cave
• 24:04
  monsters. In fact, the first chapter I
• 24:07
  ever read of a Target novel was the last chapter of Doctor Who
• 24:10
  in the cave monsters, because it's only two pages long.
• 24:13
  It's called the lie and it's the little coder where the doctor,
• 24:16
  you know, where the ending happens.
• 24:18
  But it was I taught myself to read reading Doctor Who books
• 24:23
  but it's quite hard to read a whole Doctor Who, but would you
• 24:25
  like six or seven or whatever it was?
• 24:27
  But, but I figured I could, I could do that chapter because it
• 24:30
  was only two pages long. So right.
• 24:32
  So, I always knew that the ending of the silent I've ruined
• 24:38
  Doctor, Who's one of the best bits for myself?
• 24:41
  And we will we do so because like, I kind of knew it.
• 24:45
  I wasn't that sort of bothered about it, except, of course,
• 24:48
  it's so different from the Yeah. Yeah, I will kind of look at
• 24:52
  that as we get. We've got seven episodes to
• 24:54
  feel. So we'll talk about the, I think
• 24:57
  is an incredible book. The Cave monsters.
• 25:02
  It is, I always found the Malcolm Hulk books harder to
• 25:04
  read and and in fact, quite often gave up on them or quite
• 25:09
  often skipped a couple of chapters certainly, the doctor
• 25:12
  and companion introductory stuff to get to the meat of the story
• 25:16
  maybe, but but I I appreciated them more when I was at school
• 25:22
  and her dad, maybe read all of the Terrance dicks ones.
• 25:25
  And then went back to the Malcolm Hulk ones, which I found
• 25:27
  just a bit tougher. As I got older, of course, I
• 25:30
  appreciated the more for their subtlety and for their, you
• 25:36
  know, their novel approaches to things like doing a chapter from
• 25:38
  the magnets point of view, or, or the, or the one in, for this
• 25:42
  way, more courage, he doesn't know what anyone's called, but
• 25:45
  he knows what buttons are but that's, you know, but it's okay.
• 25:50
  That, that sort of, that sort of imaginative stuff.
• 25:52
  I thought much enjoyed much more.
• 25:55
  When I was older that when I was young because I was reading them
• 25:58
  at quite a young age, so any subtlety sort of lost, you know,
• 26:02
  so they're so, the Terrance dicks books were much easier to
• 26:05
  navigate in that way. I think we were sort of spoiled
• 26:08
  by just how economic Terrance dicks Wars with his prose and
• 26:12
  just how quickly get to the point in a varied, I've been
• 26:16
  listening to the Target book, novelisation readings.
• 26:19
  Recently and by go by the five hours goes by and a lick I think
• 26:24
  haha. Yeah I want to talk John a waif.
• 26:31
  Yes, because well, he's not in a very, he's not in a particularly
• 26:34
  good mood. Is he?
• 26:38
  I don't compare because I mean, the doctor Yeah, he's some, I
• 26:44
  don't, I don't know what, I think of John put was Doctor.
• 26:47
  He's a funny one, isn't he? Because he it's quite a
• 26:50
  miserable sod, but he's great. You know, he is, he has that
• 26:55
  sort of aplomb, doesn't he, he's a natural, you know, any number
• 27:02
  of people could dress like Jon Pertwee, I think.
• 27:04
  Larry Turner, kind of says it in that documentary didn't see,
• 27:07
  but, but, but, but he's the only one that can sort of get away
• 27:11
  with it. You know, that with the best
• 27:13
  will in the world, I would love to look great in a frilly shirt
• 27:17
  and a cloak but I would look like a get who lives with his
• 27:20
  mum and I'm not taught, I don't have I mean he's taller than me.
• 27:25
  But he also has great posture, you know and great presence.
• 27:31
  And and against that the sort of clothes that he wears he doesn't
• 27:34
  look like he's in fancy dress. I don't ever question what?
• 27:37
  Jon Pertwee is wearing in the way that I would, if somebody
• 27:41
  else was wearing That stuff and I remember loving this bit where
• 27:44
  he goes well it's not worth 50 million pins if it doesn't work.
• 27:49
  So to fit a miles and and he's got that line.
• 27:53
  He does doesn't he? When official people say to him,
• 27:57
  may I ask what you're doing and he is with you, may I ask.
• 27:59
  Yes, obviously, he's very, he's cool.
• 28:01
  Put down that, he's that he's obviously rehearsed.
• 28:05
  I feel like he's introduced to you.
• 28:11
  Already figure. It comes up the lift is home.
• 28:14
  My dear fellow, I simply don't happen to have a pass because I
• 28:17
  believe in, and that's why not. Yeah, God is so rude.
• 28:19
  I love it. Yeah.
• 28:22
  Well and then and then he gets introduced to Ralph Cornish,
• 28:24
  doesn't he goes? Let me explain this to you in
• 28:26
  very simple terms, until he's told to Ralph Cornish is.
• 28:30
  And then, of course, he gets a little bit obsequious.
• 28:34
  I love Norman Jones as major Baker.
• 28:38
  He was a lovely actor, who never?
• 28:41
  I could never get it in. Interview out of he.
• 28:44
  He spent his last days in her arms house in Telford, which is
• 28:47
  actually where my mum works. But I think he was quite sad
• 28:51
  about how the profession had kind of let him go a little bit.
• 28:55
  It's a shame because he had a great career and he's a very,
• 28:58
  very good actor. And I love this.
• 29:00
  The profile between major Baker and the Brigadier there, it's a
• 29:05
  lovely cast. Where you've got Fulton McKay
• 29:09
  here whoo-chow. He's resisting the urge to smile
• 29:14
  when this story. Like I always feel like he's
• 29:17
  just on the verge of a laugh. Well, I think he's I think he's
• 29:21
  playing sort of amiable and open.
• 29:24
  That's his way of of deflecting, any sort of attention to himself
• 29:31
  in a way by being well, I'm just damnable and happy and easygoing
• 29:35
  rather than doing that sort of no.
• 29:38
  But nothing at all acting that, you know, Shady characters can
• 29:43
  do. So, I think it works.
• 29:44
  It's kind of nice that he has that that sort of very pleasant.
• 29:49
  Sort of cheery cheery demeanor was lovely.
• 29:53
  Then is when that mass starts to slip, you know, when the doctors
• 29:56
  at his Cottage and you know, he can't keep up that mask anymore.
• 30:02
  It's really entry are the doctors really annoying?
• 30:07
  I think. Also, I say it's now.
• 30:09
  So I don't forget, I think with Fulton Mac, I hear this.
• 30:12
  I think this is the story. I'm not going to don't write in,
• 30:15
  but I think this makes this the story that has the most
• 30:18
  credited. It cast who are obes in it.
• 30:22
  I think Kinder has the most cast but because Glenn Murphy and G
• 30:26
  Cole are extra. So they're not credited because
• 30:29
  Anna wing, and Richard Todd are also but they're not all that.
• 30:32
  I think Ana wind in winged was an MBA or something, but there's
• 30:35
  three people in Doctor Who in the silurians, Joe, who are obes
• 30:39
  going in, tell me who A full turn Makai, of course.
• 30:43
  Yeah. I never figured that was one,
• 30:45
  Chef Geoffrey Palmer. Oh yes of course.
• 30:49
  And Ian Tolbert to plays Travis who's the guy in episode 4.
• 30:55
  When When Geoffrey Palmer arrives, he sort of has a chat
• 31:00
  with Peter Mills and won't let him answer that.
• 31:03
  And keep saying, I've already done that sir.
• 31:05
  And he's also the lawyer in in the Leisure hype.
• 31:08
  But he's a, he's a, an illustrious theater director
• 31:12
  who's directed a lot of theater. You Regent's Park.
• 31:14
  Open air theater. So he's 0.
• 31:15
  B is for his services to theater.
• 31:18
  Ever know who is walking through a dog, whose story in a bit part
• 31:21
  in. You do not, you do not when you
• 31:25
  said Peter, then our final answer.
• 31:28
  The silurians for a second. When you said Peter, Peter miles
• 31:31
  should have had an Obe in a two-mile should have had an Obe
• 31:34
  for services to snarling villainy.
• 31:37
  I love Peter miles in this. I think please holiday should
• 31:41
  have had an Obe for now. I'm going to I'm going to ask
• 31:44
  you a question now will you on the commentary for this story?
• 31:49
  No, it was just before my time. Okay I'd love to have been on
• 31:54
  the commentary for this story. Pacer models is clearly an
• 31:57
  eccentric fellow and he's having almost a spat with Caroline.
• 32:03
  Jonah one point where he's almost assuming the role that
• 32:08
  he's playing in the story in the commentary going into these
• 32:11
  horrible, lizards taken over Mike and Carol.
• 32:14
  I'm John's going Peter, you know, it's not real laughing.
• 32:17
  Did you hear it? This what?
• 32:18
  This guy. Poetry.
• 32:20
  Yes, I'm sure at one point because because Peters Peters
• 32:23
  said something like, well, we should let these grain people in
• 32:26
  and I'm sure at one point. But that's that's cause you're a
• 32:30
  bigot. Peter, I think I think there is
• 32:32
  a kind of and I think that was Peter miles, having fun.
• 32:39
  I had the pleasure of consorting with Peter miles on a couple of
• 32:43
  occasions. And I would say his sense of
• 32:45
  humor was, was very Pieces own and he wasn't necessarily didn't
• 32:51
  necessarily check. Whether you were, you were along
• 32:53
  the same rides. He was on before he embarked on
• 32:56
  it. I remember because I do the
• 32:58
  commentary for invasion of the dinosaurs and he spent quite a
• 33:01
  lot of that. Insisting, that no Johnson's
• 33:04
  character. Charles Grover was just like
• 33:06
  davros and I was slightly baffled as to why he was trying
• 33:09
  to talk about Genesis when we were talking about invasion of
• 33:12
  the dinosaurs. And I think it was just a trick
• 33:14
  of his because he remembered Genesis better.
• 33:16
  And so he's going well put over. That is like davros and we go.
• 33:20
  Yeah. All right, Peter, he keeps
• 33:22
  asking Terrance dicks, doesn't he?
• 33:24
  What do you think Terrence? Yeah, well, well, can I I might
• 33:30
  have told you that I don't know if I've done forgive me, if it
• 33:33
  is a story of her before, it's a story that I was thinking.
• 33:36
  Well I don't tell because it's breaking the professional code
• 33:40
  but it is a funny story when we were doing the invasion of the
• 33:44
  dinosaurs this country I was there with tears.
• 33:48
  It sticks and Richard Morris the designer, and Terrence said, so,
• 33:53
  who else have you got coming today?
• 33:55
  And I said, Peter miles, who had how can't it's Richard Marx, the
• 34:00
  design. I said he said, do you know
• 34:01
  Peter miles and Richard Morris goes?
• 34:04
  No, he says, I, it's just the same sort of Pop seaplane base
• 34:08
  and so I got the impression that that Terrance was not sympatico
• 34:13
  with Peters. It sets a few more shall we say.
• 34:16
  And when we were doing the sound check, The at the top of one of
• 34:19
  the episodes Peter was doing is well, I think Grove at is like
• 34:24
  that Ross and he said, he was going and Terrence, what do you
• 34:28
  think Terrence could you hear me Terrance?
• 34:30
  And there was a pause and Terrence.
• 34:31
  Just read your pewter, every golden word.
• 34:40
  You know, I had brass with somebody yesterday in London who
• 34:45
  interviewed Peter miles once, but he gave his number out he
• 34:50
  and Peter maass found him up and he just went hello and I am your
• 34:55
  new friend for this year and apparently heard from him quite
• 34:58
  a lot because if I wanted to jazz clubs Ah, well I did, I did
• 35:06
  enjoy pizzas company but it's often with these actors.
• 35:10
  When you meet them, you you sort of have to try and reassure them
• 35:13
  that you're there because you really like the work.
• 35:16
  And it's not just to do with Doctor Who, you know, I always
• 35:19
  make sure that I talk to them about stuff that isn't just
• 35:21
  Doctor Who enough. So that, you know, I'm an
• 35:23
  admirer of you. It's not just that you've got
• 35:25
  some tangential relationship, we talk to and and that you know,
• 35:29
  modifies people who makes people go.
• 35:30
  Well, thank you very much and oh that's nice.
• 35:32
  Ice and people usually sort of go because I didn't, I don't
• 35:34
  think anybody really is really heard of me or think so many
• 35:36
  good, you know, even some quite illustrious actors.
• 35:39
  You go. No, no, we've heard of you
• 35:41
  whereas, whereas with Peter, I would say, and, of course, when
• 35:43
  you're at the RSC play done, you know, Stanley which is a
• 35:46
  fantastic part, isn't it? And and, and instead of going,
• 35:49
  oh well, you know, I was easy. Yes, I know.
• 35:52
  And so he didn't need reassurance, if that if you get
• 35:57
  my drift Peter, Peter didn't need to be reassured that, you
• 36:00
  know, I was As Ben Meir if it's, he was kind of like well yeah, I
• 36:04
  know I'm, I'm marvelous hell so wonderful.
• 36:08
  I did, he was, he was good. He was good fun.
• 36:10
  He just wonderful story about when he was at a convention and
• 36:13
  Nichols Courtney became like, what is it president of the
• 36:16
  doctor Appreciation Society also want to learn it and he was like
• 36:19
  moved to tears. The he had that moment he did.
• 36:24
  He says at one point I think is innovation of dinosaurs where he
• 36:27
  says I was at the convention somewhere with or without
• 36:31
  Michael Wisher. Up.
• 36:33
  I was like there's a handy very Curt.
• 36:37
  Yes. Yeah, I couldn't he has a funny
• 36:40
  way of expressing things like that.
• 36:42
  You didn't quite know what he was getting at.
• 36:44
  Yes. So we've been spoken with
• 36:46
  eccentric sort of eccentric older people in Doctor Who and I
• 36:50
  love them in the commentaries and I love them in the series.
• 36:53
  You know the weird of the best and he was an eccentric but he
• 36:58
  was also an fabulous actor and I love him as nighter.
• 37:04
  But I think neither is an easier part than do Lawrence and I
• 37:08
  think he's fantastic as dr. Lawrence and there's a scene
• 37:12
  that we will see major Baker, doesn't quite closes briefcase
• 37:16
  properly there. I've always noticed that.
• 37:17
  Anyway it doesn't matter and like dr.
• 37:20
  Lawrence's so she got that this restrained anger, he's desperate
• 37:25
  to let out but sort of, you know, professional is Colonel
• 37:28
  that and the funding. And then finally, that last
• 37:31
  scene when he's up on the table it just explodes.
• 37:34
  It's extraordinary. That's it.
• 37:36
  Do I think it's a really well acted death scene because it
• 37:42
  doesn't attempt to look pretty action and death actors love
• 37:47
  doing death because you can you could do it sort of quite nobley
• 37:50
  or whatever. It's quite a quite a raw thing
• 37:53
  that been but but but people often die very prettily in
• 37:56
  television programs. What I, what I admire about what
• 37:59
  Peter miles does in his death scene is, and it is the same
• 38:02
  with fights fights. Always am very
• 38:04
  well-choreographed on television because that's how we expect
• 38:06
  them to look. You've ever seen a fight in real
• 38:08
  life. They're ugly and slightly
• 38:10
  embarrassing and awkward and I and death is like that as well.
• 38:13
  And I think Peter miles it shows us good actor to me somebody who
• 38:18
  puts his vanity to one side to dare to risk to look silly,
• 38:23
  which I don't think he does. I think he looks utterly real in
• 38:27
  that death scene because the actor has put his vanity to one
• 38:30
  side. And I think it's a great,
• 38:32
  fantastic scene that is in a much later.
• 38:36
  Episode. Yes, we'll get there.
• 38:40
  What about this? Very pretty chap who's having a
• 38:43
  bit of a turn. He's out.
• 38:45
  It's like he's one of those actors that we don't know very
• 38:46
  much about Roy Brannigan. He gets a close-up he's not done
• 38:50
  an awful lot else and we've never been able to find him.
• 38:55
  And did he do any other work? Yeah, he says in a few things at
• 39:00
  around that time, but, but we've never, I've never found him and
• 39:05
  nor have the two or three other members of the sort of Coterie,
• 39:09
  of actor Hunters. That, that I, that I hang around
• 39:13
  with, on the internet, you know, you know, one thing about it
• 39:18
  that these seven passes have and, you know, it's something
• 39:22
  I'll sort of point, I know TV, the language of television has
• 39:25
  changed now and we do things very quickly in a pre-title
• 39:28
  sequence and set the But this sort of spending an entire
• 39:32
  episode building one mystery after another, you know, the
• 39:36
  problems with the site, control the psychological problems of
• 39:39
  the staff, the horror down in the caves, it builds up a
• 39:44
  mystery really effectively. I think for me I've always felt
• 39:49
  that the seven Partners seems slightly less padded than the
• 39:52
  six parties and I don't know why that is.
• 39:56
  I don't know if because They they know they're in it for the
• 40:00
  long haul, logically, you know, draw the story out rather than
• 40:06
  stick a couple of bits of padding in.
• 40:08
  So any sort of lengthening is done through story and plot and
• 40:11
  character whereas in the six-part but as you know
• 40:14
  sometimes get a you know a Chase for an episode or you know a
• 40:19
  couple of set pieces whereas I think in ambassador's and
• 40:21
  silurians an inferno they all seem to be a bit more
• 40:24
  plot-based. Although I can't think of chases
• 40:27
  in in all of those. Stories.
• 40:29
  So maybe it's just my bias is showing but I certainly feel
• 40:33
  that the seven-part has earned their length as a clutch in a
• 40:37
  way that the six parties sometimes don't throw like yeah
• 40:41
  this but maybe that's because I also I also like the gritty
• 40:44
  feel. There's like a massive plot
• 40:47
  tangent in silurians and Ambassador there and Inferno.
• 40:53
  Where is it? I always feel like there's a bit
• 40:55
  of running on the spot in four and five and a six part her and
• 40:58
  then we finished story. Yeah.
• 41:01
  Yeah. A pert was great at all of this.
• 41:08
  Let's not also forget because we've had the first one on film
• 41:13
  spearhead. This is perfect was really first
• 41:16
  time of doing multi-camera drama because he hadn't really done
• 41:22
  much TV. If any TV drama before, you
• 41:29
  know, he's a comic and a re-direct and did fill.
• 41:32
  But but the discipline of doing multi camera is very different.
• 41:35
  And the discipline of Doing multi-camera drama is very
• 41:38
  different to the discipline of doing early or comedy.
• 41:42
  So, it's quite a big ask for somebody to hold a series in a
• 41:48
  sort of medium. You're not hugely familiar with
• 41:51
  Arena by all accounts. He was a he was a nervous actor.
• 41:54
  Anyway, insofar as sort of people, he probably considered
• 41:59
  his betters either. He was working alongside, you
• 42:03
  know, sort of trying to find his name.
• 42:04
  But adding that As well, and just taking on this sort of
• 42:09
  Behemoth from a show on his shoulders.
• 42:13
  Yes. And I think, you know, it's well
• 42:15
  known that the stuff, but when he was working with trout and
• 42:17
  Trent would like to go off script in and put, we would
• 42:20
  rather not and and both of those are perfectly legitimate
• 42:23
  approaches to acting. And if you're if you're an actor
• 42:26
  that you know the dust has worked out your performance
• 42:29
  based on what has been rehearsed in a series of cues.
• 42:34
  It's fair enough to me that I love that Mercurial track
• 42:37
  approach because you get stuff out of left field but they're
• 42:40
  both but they're both perfectly legitimate ways of working.
• 42:43
  Working and you can understand why Putney.
• 42:45
  But we would perhaps need to hide behind the technique in a
• 42:47
  way in order to give him the security blanket, which is fair
• 42:50
  enough, version with Troutman, you've got the script editor,
• 42:55
  just off camera, guy dark-eyed, where's he going with this now,
• 42:58
  laughs, laughs? Laughs, what's it doing?
• 43:01
  Now, which is if you're good at it, that's great.
• 43:04
  But if you're not, it's a nightmare.
• 43:07
  So again, I forgive track anything because I just think
• 43:09
  he's marvelous, but it only takes somebody to do that or
• 43:13
  not. Well, and the somebody that is
• 43:14
  written things, you know? Yeah, you sweat over every
• 43:17
  syllable. Don't some actor just wondering
• 43:19
  in ago? Well, I can think of something
• 43:20
  better off the top of my head I can't get off, get lost.
• 43:24
  You might have as a writer I would probably prefer Pertwee.
• 43:28
  Chris wragge Bit Me running down from the gallery and say, look,
• 43:30
  we wrote those words you say them or yeah I mean the other
• 43:35
  thing about Pertwee is he looks fantastic.
• 43:37
  Even in this miners gear do not a, he can he can wear anything
• 43:41
  well and you get the impression he could you could probably We
• 43:43
  use any piece of equipment like a like an expert, you know, he
• 43:46
  it just everything he's so capable and competent which I
• 43:50
  rather like this especially as a contrast to troughton for whom
• 43:53
  everything seemed to happen by some sort of series of
• 43:55
  accidents. Again, I like both of those
• 43:57
  things in my, in my doctor always felt.
• 43:59
  Like there were four out my clothes, just a little hung on
• 44:01
  him, you know? Let me know.
• 44:02
  Yes, they were just hanging out whereas, with hurt you you're
• 44:05
  right, you know, the documentary to about earlier where she says,
• 44:09
  you know, he's so damn sexy. I don't disagree because got a
• 44:12
  certain magnitude. And I think it's the authority
• 44:15
  that he carries. Yeah, I was never that doctor
• 44:20
  who is not going to save the daddy, when Jon Pertwee strolls
• 44:23
  into a story. Yeah, although I but I have to
• 44:27
  ask you Joe. Have you ever made a dinosaur
• 44:31
  roar at the moment of climax? Then does we'd become yes.
• 44:44
  It's an interesting Cliffhanger is lit.
• 44:46
  Given the dinosaur doesn't really do much.
• 44:51
  Oh, but I mean, it's such an important part of the book and
• 44:54
  it's on the cover and it looks amazing.
• 44:56
  And there's a fantastic internal illustration of this giant
• 45:00
  Tyrannosaurus, and the doctor sort of looking after.
• 45:03
  And, you know, when I was a kid reading those that God Doctor
• 45:06
  Who in the old days was brilliant.
• 45:08
  They did things like that. Not maths in a lay-by, but she
• 45:13
  sure it's even CSO, is it? That's an actual costume for
• 45:20
  They feel. Yeah, it is the first CSO shot
• 45:24
  later in episode, was it four or five where major Baker sees it?
• 45:29
  And it's that there's a panel of one of the caves.
• 45:31
  And that's I think the first CSO shot of of Doctor Who, but that
• 45:36
  because the doctor and the dinosaur aren't in shot at the
• 45:38
  same time is not CSO, and yes, but even when it is CSO, they
• 45:44
  didn't need a man in a costume. They, they may as well have just
• 45:47
  had a model and it was having the man in the costume.
• 45:50
  Made them realize that and go, oh, no, we it could be any size
• 45:54
  because we're CS owing it but you only work that stuff out.
• 45:58
  Once you've got your only becomes obvious.
• 45:59
  Once you've done it, you know, and having had Bertram, the
• 46:02
  dinosaur sort of lolloping about they then went oh why don't we
• 46:06
  just do it. Do it with a model and then
• 46:09
  we'll do model dinosaurs it. Nothing can possibly go.
• 46:11
  Go wrong. But you look before we leap out
• 46:15
  episode 1, I wanted to ask you if you know about I Think I read
• 46:21
  it in very let's his sort of who autobiography that who and me.
• 46:28
  Yeah, way talks about the cave set, space truck and the set,
• 46:33
  man. So basically look, these are
• 46:36
  going to be ready in time and you're not going to have a say
• 46:38
  on the day and then they turned up on the deck need.
• 46:41
  And they essentially had like a set of black drapes or it just
• 46:44
  wasn't ready to go and everyone sort of dashed in to make this
• 46:48
  work, you know, anything about that.
• 46:51
  I don't. Okay.
• 46:53
  Yeah. I've told you something.
• 46:55
  Then have an eye. Yeah.
• 46:58
  It was yeah it was just sort of every production.
• 47:03
  He just said Dry, we need help. And it just everyone sort of
• 47:07
  came to the set and assemble those cases as best as they
• 47:11
  possibly could. Which and that's, that's, that's
• 47:15
  the magic. That's what I love about, that's
• 47:17
  why I love going behind the scenes and love finding out how
• 47:19
  things were made because those stories of how through Endeavor
• 47:24
  and creativity, and sometimes a bit of luck, and sometimes
• 47:27
  series of accidents, you know, these things that we know and
• 47:31
  love manifested themselves. Not because they were, you know,
• 47:36
  flung together by people who didn't give a monkey's butt
• 47:39
  because they were, you know, they were They were great
• 47:42
  Endeavors often against remarkable odds and that's why
• 47:47
  I'm, I'm, you know, I have total sympathy with people who don't
• 47:50
  care what anybody's called them, what went on behind the scenes,
• 47:53
  but I'm always drawn to the story behind The Story.
• 47:57
  I mean, I'm as interested I think in in how a story came to
• 48:01
  be than I am in watching the story.
• 48:03
  You know, is that fabulous? Story is no way.
• 48:06
  Roach Barry. Let's is trying to call Sarah
• 48:09
  Jane Smith. I think for the second time.
• 48:12
  This is sort of post April Walker and now I'll say no give
• 48:15
  a performance. That would have been a very
• 48:18
  different book, season 11. And is it that was criticized
• 48:23
  for something say, oh, the summoned has been into, z-cars,
• 48:26
  absolutely amazing. I just love the fact that
• 48:27
  there's all these full of Paul's of resource.
• 48:30
  You can just go into the next the next room, you know.
• 48:34
  Yes. Well, that's something to be
• 48:36
  said there. I think for having a public
• 48:38
  service broadcaster with an infrastructure where you know,
• 48:43
  people learn off each other. And, you know, as you say it you
• 48:50
  can you can go down the corridor and people can help each other
• 48:52
  out. And people can expose you
• 48:54
  perhaps to Talent. You might not otherwise have
• 48:56
  been because you're all working for the same cause, but maybe
• 49:00
  getting stuff from from different places.
• 49:02
  Now everything, you know, now I've the thing is, you know,
• 49:07
  done us there also every production is you know, is an
• 49:10
  individual Enterprise that, you know, three or four shows made
• 49:14
  at the same time, might make exactly the same mistake or And
• 49:22
  well, yeah, and I just think I just think having that building
• 49:25
  teeming with with talent and Industry, and and training
• 49:30
  people up. So that even people who left the
• 49:32
  BBC and then went to make films, had got the proper training and
• 49:36
  the problem, you know, background, which then fed into
• 49:38
  our film industry. Which means that, as a country
• 49:41
  making films, we sort of, we do punch above our weight and all
• 49:45
  of that. And that all comes to having a
• 49:46
  creative infrastructure which, which I think it's harder to
• 49:50
  have. If you don't have a public
• 49:52
  service broadcaster in house like that old model of the BBC,
• 49:56
  but then again I'm very old. I love the stories of you know,
• 50:03
  you hear some of the dogs who act as telling about the
• 50:05
  rehearsal rooms you know. And you got The Two Ronnies
• 50:08
  going on over there and tell him Ana born going on over there,
• 50:12
  God, man, it must be a great time to be in television.
• 50:16
  Yeah, I mean, it's it's you know, Very happy.
• 50:20
  I do a lot of radio drama and you know, it's it's it's a lot
• 50:26
  easier. Now, that I have this set up
• 50:29
  here, I've got a slightly better set up in the corner over over
• 50:33
  there which I do for something that had to have to pass
• 50:37
  technical tests or whatever but I have the past few radio dramas
• 50:42
  radio for drums that I've done have been done from here and I
• 50:47
  it saddens me that you know, 15 years Go.
• 50:50
  I was in a green room with Michael Palin and Mark Heap and
• 50:54
  David please let you know I'm hanging around and part of the
• 50:58
  joy of being an actor is hanging around with other actors and
• 51:02
  meeting act as you've seen in other things and being able to
• 51:04
  say to their like you know probably well you know, I've
• 51:08
  worked with Toby Jones for example.
• 51:11
  What's he like Toby? Well I could tell you what is
• 51:14
  duvet covers like because he was like me he was in his house with
• 51:19
  a duvet. / / of the block, the sound out and we didn't say two
• 51:24
  words to each other off mic. Even though we shared a number
• 51:28
  of scenes together and did good work.
• 51:31
  But now you know the the sad reality is that that doesn't
• 51:37
  probably affect the outcome of the final piece at all but it
• 51:42
  means I don't have any good. Toby Jones stories.
• 51:45
  Yeah I do you know when the technical stuff was Opening I
• 51:50
  couldn't sort of chill out in the Green Room, make Toby Jones
• 51:52
  a cup of tea and let's have a chat and discover that we got
• 51:55
  mutual friends or maybe work out a bit of business for this
• 51:58
  particular scene or whatever. But as I say the sad reality is
• 52:03
  it does, it does in the great scheme of things, it doesn't
• 52:06
  matter. And probably in the great scheme
• 52:09
  of things, it doesn't matter that you don't meet on a Monday
• 52:13
  and rehearse at the act and Hilton through to the Friday and
• 52:15
  then record on the Friday night, you know, a lot of old actor say
• 52:19
  but At rehearsal time was important.
• 52:21
  Well, now, one of the skills you have to have as an actor is to
• 52:24
  turn up with your A game and your ideas fully formed and do
• 52:30
  them at the run through just before they start turning and
• 52:33
  then put in a really good performance.
• 52:34
  And there's some damn good acting on telly right now and
• 52:38
  it's not. And would it be better if they'd
• 52:40
  had five days rehearsal until Tim?
• 52:42
  Well, I don't know because, you know, looking at Sarah
• 52:45
  Lancashire and Happy Valley or whatever, that's a phenomenal.
• 52:49
  But He has to bring it with us to get there so again we might
• 52:53
  go. Alright so much better to do it
• 52:55
  like that but well it was great then and It produced some
• 52:59
  performances that I absolutely love but you know times change
• 53:03
  and we do things differently and that doesn't necessarily mean
• 53:05
  it's worse. It just means that the stories
• 53:08
  will be less interesting in the future.
• 53:12
  You know, there's going to be, you know, there's going to be
• 53:15
  probably fewer anecdotes which of things probably doesn't
• 53:19
  matter. While so I think that's a
• 53:22
  wonderful place to end episode 1.
• 53:25
  You said earlier in this episode about some wonderful chases in
• 53:30
  the season seven stories. Yeah, it's season is absolute
• 53:35
  to. I'm trying to remember from
• 53:36
  memory is that where we're heading across the more
• 53:38
  searching for the solarium. So have some too No, that's it's
• 53:46
  more sort of episode 3. It's more sort of episode 3
• 53:51
  because that it's escaped from Doris's Barn that's secrets.
• 53:57
  And so it's episode 3 that has that gorgeous location stuff.
• 54:02
  It's amazing. Well if you hold my hands will
• 54:06
  head back down into the tunnel and face that Tyrannosaurus Rex.
• 54:10
  Okie dokie. Let's let's let's let's get go
• 54:13
  and see what he's like once he's got his claws into to us.