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What You Need To Know About Suppressors (And More) · Conversations: Special Guests with Preston Scott

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you heard right. Oh, wait a minute. Every hour
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: sounds the same. Never mind. Third hour of the morning
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: show with Preston Scott, show 5670. He is Grant Allen.
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: It's our final show of the week, taking the long
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: weekend and making it ever longer. And we are joined,
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: as we are, the first Wednesday of each month.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: J.D.
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: Johnson this month from the Talon Training Group, website talonrange.com. And,
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: of course, co-host, not just co-founder of Talon, but the co-host...
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: of Talon Outdoors, J.D. Johnson. Hello.
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: Good morning.
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: How are you guys doing on that mess you call
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: Talon Outdoors? Oh, boy. It's grown to quite the cast
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: of characters.
• 0:46
  Speaker 3: You know, it's one of those things where I just
• 0:48
  Speaker 3: shake my head and go, yeah, people actually listen to
• 0:51
  Speaker 3: this because they come in and see me. Yes. I mean,
• 0:54
  Speaker 3: we have so much fun doing it, and I think
• 0:56
  Speaker 3: that's one of the reasons it's as successful as it is.
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: Could you have ever imagined when you and Charlie kicked
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: around the idea of starting a little gun range, what
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: it would lead to?
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: No, no.
• 1:10
  Speaker 3: And it didn't start with a gun range. It started
• 1:12
  Speaker 3: with us teaching people how to shoot, you know, just finding,
• 1:16
  Speaker 3: finding a berm of dirt somewhere to do it at
• 1:19
  Speaker 3: and it grown into what it's grown into.
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: So no, no, no.
• 1:23
  Speaker 3: I just, it was, it, at the time we started it,
• 1:27
  Speaker 3: it was a better alternative than me putting on a
• 1:29
  Speaker 3: uniform and, and going and standing at Publix at night
• 1:32
  Speaker 3: and working off duty and, you know, trying to make
• 1:34
  Speaker 3: extra money. Because back then, cops get paid a lot
• 1:37
  Speaker 3: better now than they did back then.
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: Even though it's still not enough?
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: Probably, you know, for what they have to put up with.
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:45
  Speaker 3: Not enough, but it's a heck of a lot better
• 1:47
  Speaker 3: than it was when I retired 13 years ago.
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: Sure.
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: So almost 14 years ago now.
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: In the scope of your career, you've seen a lot
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: of things change within the gun industry. And we were
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: just talking about ATF and some of the changes that
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: have happened. I think some of our listeners are aware
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: of them. Some of them might not be, but there
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: have been significant changes that have been made with regard
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: to purchasing firearms and more specifically suppressors.
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:20
  Speaker 3: So there's, there's basically two different categories of firearms. There's
• 2:24
  Speaker 3: your standard run of the mill rifle shotguns and handguns.
• 2:27
  Speaker 3: Those are, those are You know, standard firearms. And then
• 2:30
  Speaker 3: you have the NFA Act that started back in. It's
• 2:35
  Speaker 3: been added to along the way, but it started back
• 2:37
  Speaker 3: in the 30s. What did that stand for?
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: The National Firearms Act.
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 2:41
  Speaker 3: So the initial National Firearms Act were passed because of
• 2:45
  Speaker 3: the Chicago, you know, the crime rate in Chicago that
• 2:50
  Speaker 3: was involving machine guns and the gangsters shooting up, you know,
• 2:54
  Speaker 3: with machine guns and stuff. So they passed laws. basically
• 2:58
  Speaker 3: restricting the possession of short-barrel rifles, sawed-off shotguns, short-barrel shotguns,
• 3:04
  Speaker 3: short-barrel rifles. Thank you, John Dillinger. John Dillinger was famous
• 3:09
  Speaker 3: for robbing armories and taking Browning automatic rifles and cutting
• 3:15
  Speaker 3: the barrel off so that he could conceal them under
• 3:16
  Speaker 3: a long coat and doing crime with it.
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: So they passed these laws.
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  Speaker 3: It's just like everything else. Oh, we've got to do something.
• 3:23
  Speaker 3: We've got to pass a law. We've got to pass
• 3:26
  Speaker 3: a law to restrict this stuff. But back then, you know,
• 3:29
  Speaker 3: the Bonnie and Clyde and John Dillinger days back then,
• 3:32
  Speaker 3: you could walk into any hardware store and buy a
• 3:34
  Speaker 3: Thompson machine gun and take it home. And you could
• 3:38
  Speaker 3: use that for home protection.
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: If you wanted to.
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  Speaker 3: So they passed these laws. They assigned a $ 200 tax.
• 3:45
  Speaker 3: Think about $ 200 in 1938, 36, whatever. Think about how
• 3:48
  Speaker 3: much $ 200 were. They were so restrictively expensive that Nobody
• 3:57
  Speaker 3: bought them. Well, time moves on. They've made some changes.
• 4:01
  Speaker 3: 1968 was an additional. They've added stuff to it all along. Well,
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  Speaker 3: now we've started to see a recession of those laws.
• 4:09
  Speaker 3: They've started to back off of it. A judge recently
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  Speaker 3: in Texas, 5th District, Federal District ruled with the big,
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  Speaker 3: beautiful bill. When it passed, Congress took away the $ 200
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  Speaker 3: tax on suppressors, short barrel rifles, short barrel shotguns, kept
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  Speaker 3: the tax on machine guns, full auto machine guns. When
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  Speaker 3: they took that tax away, the judge says, well, the
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  Speaker 3: tax was the only reason that the ATF had authority
• 4:40
  Speaker 3: to regulate these items. So now, suppressors specifically, the plaintiffs
• 4:48
  Speaker 3: in that case, which was a silencer shop and Gun
• 4:53
  Speaker 3: owners of America, so forth. The plaintiffs in that case are,
• 4:56
  Speaker 3: we're under an injunction right now, which essentially takes suppressors
• 5:00
  Speaker 3: off of the NFA to a large degree. So we
• 5:04
  Speaker 3: have seen a dramatic increase because of that of suppressor
• 5:09
  Speaker 3: sales have been just through the roof ever since that.
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: Back with J.D. Johnson of the Talent Trading Group. We're
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: talking about some changes in law, at least sort of
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: kind of. that have taken place with the court ruling.
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: You were talking about some distinctions between Florida, Alabama, and Georgia.
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: Break that down for us real quickly. Yep.
• 5:30
  Speaker 3: So Georgia has a state law on the books. So
• 5:34
  Speaker 3: Georgia residents are not affected by this ruling at all.
• 5:37
  Speaker 3: They don't get the benefit of this ruling. Georgia says
• 5:41
  Speaker 3: you have to complete a Form 4 federal paperwork to
• 5:44
  Speaker 3: be able to possess a suppressor or own a suppressor
• 5:48
  Speaker 3: on a suppressor in their state. I hunt in Georgia
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  Speaker 3: and I use a suppressor when I hunt because I'm
• 5:53
  Speaker 3: trying to protect what little bit of hearing I've got left.
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: Sure.
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  Speaker 3: So, but Alabama and Florida, you can essentially, the court says,
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  Speaker 3: if you're a plaintiff in this case, or if you
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  Speaker 3: live in district, federal district five, which is Texas, Louisiana, Mississippi,
• 6:11
  Speaker 3: you can purchase a suppressor essentially over the counter with
• 6:14
  Speaker 3: a background check, just like we do for a regular firearm. Right.
• 6:17
  Speaker 3: And a 4473 document, which is the transfer of paperwork
• 6:21
  Speaker 3: that you fill out when you purchase a gun.
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: What makes you a plaintiff?
• 6:26
  Speaker 3: Our store is a corporate member of the Gun Owners
• 6:29
  Speaker 3: of America, and we are a silencer shop dealer. So
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  Speaker 3: those are two of the people that sued the federal government,
• 6:36
  Speaker 3: two of the entities that sued the government. So we're
• 6:39
  Speaker 3: requiring for an over-the-counter purchase that.
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: You be a member of Gun Owners of America. It's
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: just more complicated.
• 6:47
  Speaker 3: Liability coverage for us and for the customer. I would
• 6:50
  Speaker 3: hate to see me be okay for selling it to
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  Speaker 3: you and you come in to buy one and get
• 6:55
  Speaker 3: in trouble for it down the road somewhere.
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: Let's talk about the practicality of suppressors in general. I mean,
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: people have called them silencers for years and they're really...
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: They are.
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  Speaker 3: They silence some of the extreme gunshot 180 decibels is
• 7:13
  Speaker 3: not out of the question for a gunshot.
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: That's really loud. That's ear-damaging loudness.
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: For concealed carry, practical or impractical?
• 7:21
  Speaker 3: Very impractical because of the added size to the package.
• 7:26
  Speaker 3: So you're adding another four to six inches, maybe eight
• 7:30
  Speaker 3: inches of length to the end of the gun. It's
• 7:33
  Speaker 3: a muffler that goes on the end of your gun
• 7:34
  Speaker 3: is what it essentially is, but it takes up a
• 7:36
  Speaker 3: lot of space.
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  Speaker 1: If someone concealed carries... but they want to make sure
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: that they're proficient. They're out training all the time. How
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: big of a difference is it to train with the suppressor,
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: but then remove it for concealed carry purposes?
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  Speaker 3: It's a great training tool because the overpressure, the explosion
• 7:54
  Speaker 3: that happens when you pull the trigger on the firearm,
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  Speaker 3: when you're able to take away that loud explosion and
• 8:02
  Speaker 3: that overpressure that's happening a few feet away from your face,
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  Speaker 3: you lose a lot of the flinch reaction.
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  Speaker 2: We all have a We're born with it.
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  Speaker 3: You know, you clap your hands right in front of
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  Speaker 3: a baby's face a few foot away from a baby,
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  Speaker 3: and they're going to jump.
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  Speaker 2: And it's not the noise. It is the pressure.
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  Speaker 3: It's the overpressure that's happening right in front of them
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  Speaker 3: that their body registers. So when you take that away,
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  Speaker 3: you learn to keep the sights lined up and pull
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  Speaker 3: the trigger more properly.
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  Speaker 1: Does that counter any disruption in your skill aiming because
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: of the added weight on the end of the barrel?
• 8:39
  Speaker 3: No.
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: We're talking about a few ounces. It really doesn't.
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  Speaker 1: So training with a suppressor is actually a very good
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  Speaker 1: and smart thing to do.
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  Speaker 2: Absolutely.
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  Speaker 3: I started my children shooting with suppressed firearms and they
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  Speaker 3: don't have that flinch reflex that a lot of people
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  Speaker 3: end up getting where they jerk the trigger right at
• 8:57
  Speaker 3: the last minute and right-handed shooters tend to shoot low left.
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: It takes a lot of that away.
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  Speaker 1: Our most over-the-counter firearms that are Conceal carry 9mm 380s,
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  Speaker 1: are they made for suppressors?
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  Speaker 3: No, but you can convert them by changing out a barrel,
• 9:15
  Speaker 3: buying a new barrel with threads on the end, threaded
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  Speaker 3: barrels that you can screw the suppressor onto the end
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  Speaker 3: of the gun.
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  Speaker 1: Are those usually made by the manufacturer or are they aftermarket?
• 9:24
  Speaker 3: Both.
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  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: You can get either or.
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: So you can bring, and I would imagine that unless
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: you're somebody that's proficient breaking down a gun, you'd bring
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: that to a gunsmith.
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  Speaker 2: Absolutely.
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: And we're back.
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: Sorry.
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: Joining me is J.D. Johnson with the Talent Training Group,
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  Speaker 1: co-host Talent Outdoors. Real quickly on suppressors, what about for hunting?
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: Do people hunt with those things?
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  Speaker 3: I would not dream of getting in a deer stand
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  Speaker 3: anymore without a suppressor on my rifle.
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  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 10:01
  Speaker 3: I was a good shot. I've always been a good
• 10:03
  Speaker 3: shot since I was a little kid. I just kind
• 10:06
  Speaker 3: of grew up that way. Not me. I wasn't a
• 10:08
  Speaker 3: SWAT guy. I could out-shoot most of the SWAT guys,
• 10:10
  Speaker 3: but I wasn't a SWAT guy.
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: They do a lot of running. I don't run. I'm
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: not a big runner.
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  Speaker 3: But anyway, I'm a better shot now than I've ever
• 10:22
  Speaker 3: been because of suppressors, because they take away your flinch reflex.
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  Speaker 3: You don't have that subconscious thing going on in your
• 10:30
  Speaker 3: head as you're pulling the trigger that this is fixing
• 10:32
  Speaker 3: to be really loud and unpleasant. Um, so I find
• 10:36
  Speaker 3: myself to be a much better shot now.
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: Um, I'll put it to you like this. I could
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: go down to the range.
• 10:42
  Speaker 3: If I had to side a rifle in, let's say
• 10:44
  Speaker 3: I'm shooting something big, like a 300 Winchester Magnum.
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: A big elk cartridge, elk rifle.
• 10:49
  Speaker 3: I've, I had to get what I needed to get
• 10:51
  Speaker 3: done in about five shots. Because after about five shots,
• 10:54
  Speaker 3: I started to get the flinchies. And that's just what
• 10:57
  Speaker 3: I call it where your subconscious is going, I don't
• 10:59
  Speaker 3: really like this.
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: This isn't fun.
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  Speaker 3: This is too loud. Even with ear protection on, this
• 11:03
  Speaker 3: isn't fun. This is too loud. Now, I could literally
• 11:07
  Speaker 3: go down there with a suppressor on the end of
• 11:10
  Speaker 3: the same gun and shoot all day and not get
• 11:13
  Speaker 3: the flinchies.
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: All right. Lightning round questions. Are there such a thing as...
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: poorly made suppressors yes or are suppressors at a standard
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  Speaker 1: that to be a suppressor you've got to reach a
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: standard and that standard's going to be okay no matter
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  Speaker 1: what you buy or they're bad.
• 11:33
  Speaker 3: Ones so right now there's because of the increased demand
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: the free market says well when we have increased demand
• 11:40
  Speaker 3: we have increased production and there are a lot of
• 11:44
  Speaker 3: new companies are existing companies, existing gun companies or existing
• 11:50
  Speaker 3: manufacturers that are now getting into the suppressor genre. They
• 11:54
  Speaker 3: have started making suppressors where they always have just made
• 11:58
  Speaker 3: guns or gun parts.
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: They're now making suppressors. So I would say be cautious,
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: especially stuff that's really cheap for its class that, you know, Well, give.
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: Us a little bit of a ballpark here.
• 12:11
  Speaker 3: So I would say the median price for a. 22
• 12:15
  Speaker 3: long rifle suppressor, for the one that you would put
• 12:17
  Speaker 3: on the end of your squirrel hunting or your target shooting. 22,
• 12:20
  Speaker 3: the median price is probably around $ 300, $ 325.
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 12:24
  Speaker 3: On the bottom end, you get some $ 220 ones. You know,
• 12:28
  Speaker 3: on the top end, you get some $ 450 ones.
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: What about handguns?
• 12:32
  Speaker 3: Handgun 9mm suppressors are in the good ones, are, you know, started.
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: About, $ 400.
• 12:39
  Speaker 3: And go to $ 600, $ 700. And then big rifle stuff,
• 12:43
  Speaker 3: centerfire rifles, start at the $ 550, $ 500, $ 500, $ 600 range
• 12:49
  Speaker 3: and go up to the $.
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: 1, 200, $ 1, 400 range.
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 12:54
  Speaker 3: I would just be leery about brand new companies. I
• 12:58
  Speaker 3: hear of new suppressor companies every day. People come in
• 13:01
  Speaker 3: and say, I want the blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: What do you know about it?
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: Nothing.
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: Never heard of it.
• 13:07
  Speaker 3: But there are some existing companies. We have a great
• 13:10
  Speaker 3: suppressor manufacturer in Crawfordville, Thompson Machine. Been around a long time.
• 13:16
  Speaker 3: Richard and Brooks have been making suppressors down there for
• 13:18
  Speaker 3: a long time. They're good quality. Very good quality. And
• 13:23
  Speaker 3: not stupid expensive stuff. And there's a lot of those
• 13:28
  Speaker 3: out there. There's other good companies out there that have
• 13:30
  Speaker 3: been around a long time. I'm just leery until I
• 13:32
  Speaker 3: see for myself. Because we do find pieces and parts
• 13:35
  Speaker 3: sometimes on the range during cleanup where something has come apart, uh,
• 13:40
  Speaker 3: getting used.
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: Well, that leads to my next question. Are, is there
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: such a thing as a dangerous suppressor?
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: No, not really.
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 13:49
  Speaker 3: Um, they're, they're so most of them are so far
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: away from you if they do a rupture or parts
• 13:55
  Speaker 3: come off of them and they, they tend to eject
• 13:58
  Speaker 3: those parts down range away from you. Um, it's just
• 14:02
  Speaker 3: like anything else, you know, the, the Suppressors are mufflers,
• 14:05
  Speaker 3: just like a muffler on your car, a muffler for
• 14:08
  Speaker 3: your gun. There's $ 25 cherry bombs or glass packs, and
• 14:16
  Speaker 3: then there's Midas gold that you pay a whole lot
• 14:19
  Speaker 3: of money for. Usually the more expensive ones work better.
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: And we are back with J.D.
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: Johnson.
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: Co-founder of the Talent Training Group, co-host of Talent Outdoors.
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: You can listen to the program Saturdays. And we're talking
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: personal defense now. We're switching from the discussion on suppressors
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: to a couple stories in the news. J.D., I shared
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: the one with you in the break of a woman
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: doing door dash, honked a horn, just nudging a guy, literally, hey,
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: the light's green, let's go. And he got mad, followed her,
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: and beat her with a baseball bat. Unbeknownst to her,
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: He turned around to become a stalker. He was tailing her.
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: She had no idea, didn't know. The reality is that
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: this stuff does happen. People are followed for unbeknownst to
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: them for reasons they have no idea why. And especially
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: for ladies, what would you advise?
• 15:19
  Speaker 3: You know, it's hard not to blow the horn when
• 15:22
  Speaker 3: somebody in front of you is sitting there and you're
• 15:23
  Speaker 3: ready to go and you've got an agenda and they don't.
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: The light's green. The light's green. Let's go. Uh, I'm
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: guilty of it sometime. I'll do it too. Yeah. I'm embarrassed.
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: I'm not mad. I just tap it.
• 15:35
  Speaker 3: If I'm not paying attention and the light turns green,
• 15:38
  Speaker 3: somebody blows the horn.
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: I'm like, okay, thank you. I'm out.
• 15:40
  Speaker 3: So, you know, it's kind of embarrassing, but it happens. Um,
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: there's crazy people in the world, right? There's no, no
• 15:46
  Speaker 3: other nice way to say it. And you never know
• 15:49
  Speaker 3: how somebody is going to react to whatever it is
• 15:51
  Speaker 3: that you're doing when you enter their world.
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: But this is happening more and more, these weird kind
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: of encounters where somebody's upset at somebody over something on
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: the road, but this lady's being stalked and she didn't
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: even know it.
• 16:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah, got to check your rearview mirror, especially somebody that
• 16:08
  Speaker 3: you just had interaction with. You may not have even
• 16:11
  Speaker 3: registered it as an interaction with that person, but you
• 16:13
  Speaker 3: had one, you know, and You can, especially, you know,
• 16:18
  Speaker 3: if you're behind them and you start seeing animation happening
• 16:21
  Speaker 3: in the front seat and they're mad because you blew
• 16:23
  Speaker 3: the horn at them, you need to be paying attention.
• 16:25
  Speaker 3: That may be, that's a signal that could be a threat.
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: Protocol wise, just keep driving, get on the phone, dial 911,
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: you know, that kind of thing. Make sure that, you know,
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: if you're being followed.
• 16:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah. If you're being followed. Well, so here's my suggestion.
• 16:40
  Speaker 3: If you're on a street that has this, a single lane,
• 16:43
  Speaker 3: you know, one, one, one lane in each direction. Make
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: a couple of right-hand turns, and you can make a
• 16:49
  Speaker 3: loop and keep going the same direction with three right-hand turns, right?
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: Yep.
• 16:54
  Speaker 3: Or left-hand turns, for that matter. I would say if
• 16:56
  Speaker 3: it's a two-lane road, if you start seeing this, get
• 16:59
  Speaker 3: over in the slow lane. Get over in the right lane.
• 17:02
  Speaker 3: Let them pass. If you get hung up at a
• 17:04
  Speaker 3: red light, at least in the right-hand lane, you can
• 17:07
  Speaker 3: take a right at the red light or be prepared
• 17:09
  Speaker 3: to run the red light. If somebody gets out of
• 17:12
  Speaker 3: their car is when the danger is.
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: Happens.
• 17:16
  Speaker 3: You know, if they get out of their car, you
• 17:17
  Speaker 3: need to be thinking, okay, this is not going well.
• 17:21
  Speaker 3: Somebody just got out of their car at the red
• 17:22
  Speaker 3: light and traffic or whatever. And they're walking towards me.
• 17:25
  Speaker 3: And you want to try to avoid that. Even if
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: you're carrying concealed and all this other stuff, uh, avoidance
• 17:31
  Speaker 3: of the conflict is always a win.
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: If you can avoid it.
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: Um, if you're fearful that you're being followed or stalked,
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: you don't go to your home though.
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: No, you don't, you don't continue on your merry way period.
• 17:42
  Speaker 3: You find, you know, it, And not that going to
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: a crowded environment is necessarily going to save you, but
• 17:48
  Speaker 3: it might. Going somewhere where there's people, businesses, whatever, where
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: there's witnesses, there's people, it might stop somebody. But this
• 17:58
  Speaker 3: guy's nuts. I mean, I don't know that anything's going
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: to stop that. He's liable to have followed her to
• 18:02
  Speaker 3: the end of the earth so that he could get
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: out with his baseball bat. You never know what's motivating
• 18:07
  Speaker 3: somebody in their head.
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: Clearly, in a situation like this, though, where someone then
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: gets out of their vehicle and they are approaching at
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: that point.
• 18:21
  Speaker 3: You're you better be paying close attention and start to
• 18:24
  Speaker 3: formulate some kind of a plan whether it's to stand
• 18:27
  Speaker 3: your ground and defend yourself or to escape you better
• 18:30
  Speaker 3: be formulating a plan and darn quick so um and
• 18:35
  Speaker 3: that's the best advice i can give you better be
• 18:36
  Speaker 3: thinking about okay what's my escape route can i jump
• 18:40
  Speaker 3: up on the sidewalk and get around these cars that
• 18:42
  Speaker 3: are in front of me. Cause get, get away from
• 18:43
  Speaker 3: this guy. You know, uh, that would be option one.
• 18:46
  Speaker 3: Option two would be standing your ground and defending yourself.
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: Now that's if you are in a situation where you,
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: I guess, sort of in a way kind of provoked
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: something by just tapping your horn, but you know, you're
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: being followed. Right.
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: Shouldn't be a provocation, but obviously is.
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: Sadly, there's another story that's very recent that, No provocation.
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: No way of anticipating. And it ended up being a
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: fatal encounter. Final segment here with J.D. Johnson, our personal
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: defense segment. And it's becoming more prevalent. Knife attacks.
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: They are.
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: Incredibly personal because of the distance.
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: Absolutely.
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: But they're not necessarily personal because they're happening in totally
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: unprovoked circumstances with people that are just mentally unstable, whether
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: it's drug use, whether it's a lack of using their
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: medicine or drugs. that are prescribed. But let's talk about
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: this case in Times Square. The woman just decided to
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: start stabbing people.
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: Yep. Yeah.
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: I go back to what you and I were talking
• 20:05
  Speaker 3: about on the break. It's kind of like the movie
• 20:07
  Speaker 3: No Country for Old Men. I have a hard time
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: wrapping my head around that kind of crazy. But we've
• 20:14
  Speaker 3: emptied the mental institutions that were around in the 70s
• 20:18
  Speaker 3: and 80s. They're empty all over the country. We don't
• 20:22
  Speaker 3: hold people for having mental problems and ensure that they
• 20:26
  Speaker 3: are taking their medication if they need to be medicated.
• 20:29
  Speaker 3: And then you have people self-medicating with with illicit drugs
• 20:35
  Speaker 3: situation like that. What baffled me watching the video of
• 20:39
  Speaker 3: all that is the number of people that gathered around.
• 20:42
  Speaker 3: Everybody's trying, everybody's got their cell phones out trying to
• 20:44
  Speaker 3: get video of this instead of getting the heck away
• 20:46
  Speaker 3: from that person with a knife in each hand.
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: Well, let's best defense. We've talked about it before, but
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: it's always been with a knife attack is distance.
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: Distance, distance, get away from it. I don't want to
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: be around.
• 20:59
  Speaker 3: I honestly, you know, I'm always going to retreat until
• 21:04
  Speaker 3: I can't retreat anymore if I can avoid a conflict.
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 21:08
  Speaker 3: Nobody, you know, especially in a knife fight, you get
• 21:11
  Speaker 3: into a situation where somebody with a knife, if you
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: don't have a way of defending yourself other than your
• 21:15
  Speaker 3: bare hands, you're going to get cut. And watching that video,
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: that could have gone a very different way if the
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: police response would have been different.
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: It was terrible.
• 21:26
  Speaker 3: And I don't, you know, I, the police response there, they,
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: they made a circle around her. There's so many officers,
• 21:31
  Speaker 3: they can't shoot. They got a crossfire, a terrible crossfire. Um,
• 21:34
  Speaker 3: nobody took out a baton. I don't know if they
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: even carry batons. You go up there with a baton
• 21:39
  Speaker 3: and hit that person in the hand and where, you know,
• 21:41
  Speaker 3: hit them in the forearm where they released, dropped the
• 21:44
  Speaker 3: knife and you get a little bit of distance with
• 21:46
  Speaker 3: a baton. You're talking about a three foot long stick. Um,
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: you know, uh, run up behind her and knock her down.
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: I mean, she wasn't exactly highly mobile and agile to
• 21:56
  Speaker 3: start with, but nobody did any of that. They pulled
• 21:58
  Speaker 3: her guns out and pulling your gun out and pointing
• 22:00
  Speaker 3: at somebody and screaming at them doesn't always get a
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: good response. You know, it just, especially somebody that's crazy
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: enough to pull out two knives and start stabbing people randomly.
• 22:12
  Speaker 3: Law enforcement response up there in New York in that
• 22:14
  Speaker 3: case was terrible from what I could see. There was
• 22:18
  Speaker 3: so many other options. They tried to tase her. Tasers
• 22:21
  Speaker 3: are not always effective.
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: It wasn't that day.
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: It wasn't.
• 22:23
  Speaker 3: And they, they don't, you know, depend on that person's
• 22:26
  Speaker 3: body makeup. And she was, she was heavy, probably not
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: a lot of muscle mass. Uh, didn't, didn't appear to be,
• 22:33
  Speaker 3: have a lot of muscle mass. So tasers work better
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: on more muscular people.
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: Sure.
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: Um, they, uh, they just do. That's the way they work. They're,
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: they're neuromuscular incapacitation. That's what it causes.
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: And you got to have clean contact with the, the
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: pros far enough apart from each other. Yep.
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: Um, if you know, the probes have to be at
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: least 10 inches on taser, 10 inches.
• 22:54
  Speaker 3: Apart from each other. If they're closer than that, you're
• 22:56
  Speaker 3: not getting neuromuscular incapacitation. You're getting a pain compliance thing.
• 23:00
  Speaker 3: And a lot of people that are crazy or on
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: medication or whatever on drugs, whatever they don't, they don't
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: feel pain.
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: To the person that might be in the unfortunate circumstance
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: of being the victim or potential victim of somebody with knives. Um, distance. Yes.
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: Distance and more distance.
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: And if you can't get distance, pick up something to
• 23:25
  Speaker 3: hit back with. It's hard to create. In a crowded
• 23:31
  Speaker 3: situation like that, when you're letting people, there's so many
• 23:34
  Speaker 3: people within arm's reach of you walking down the streets
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: of New York. You can't get away from people. You're
• 23:38
  Speaker 3: always within arm's reach of people. You may not know
• 23:42
  Speaker 3: you have been stabbed until you get stabbed. You don't
• 23:45
  Speaker 3: see it coming because you can't.
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: The little girl in the train in Philadelphia or something.
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: That was in North Carolina, I think.
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: That's right, Charlotte. But that's why we encourage people to,
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: if they're inclined, to carry concealed and to be prepared.
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: Absolutely. And it's still not going to prevent everything.