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Ethical Storytelling in Nonprofits: Insights with Chris Miano | Nonprofit 411 Podcast · Nonprofit411 Podcast

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Hello and welcome to Nonprofit 411, where we dive into resources and strategies that help nonprofits not just survive, but truly thrive.
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I'm Sarah Barton, your host and fundraising advocate.
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Hello, I'm so excited to launch today's podcast.
This is nonprofit 411 and we are going to have a conversation with Chris Miano from Memory Fox.
And I've been looking forward to this conversation.
So I'm going to dive right in and we're going to start Chris with a fun question.
What Before we introduce you formally, what is your favorite hobby? My favorite hobby.
Oh boy.
This is going to sound really dorky and I would never have admitted this.
Like I never thought I would be this person, but.
I got a VR headset.
I finally bought one and I don't have a lot of time because I have three kids so I kind of have to do it like late at night and I got flight simulator for it and it is the coolest neatest thing because like you're like literally flying like a Cessna.
And you have to like move the dials.
I've not, I'm, I don't even really like flying, but it's like cathartic and it's very relaxing because I, I used to be in the army and so I traveled all over the world and I can go fly to these places and like fly over them and I can go to like Iraq and Afghanistan and like see places that I've been to and things like that.
It is my like new hobby.
I have plenty of hobbies, but that is like my new one.
I think that's.
Fun to, fun to talk about.
So I have, I experienced vertigo pretty easily.
So I'm so hesitant about VR headsets.
I've never even put one on my face.
There's programs they have, like, they have like, like games or whatever.
There are a lot of games for it, but like, have you confront your vertigo? Like you'll be standing on a ledge, like on top and they use it for like.
Therapy and things like that.
Oh, wow.
I had my wife is afraid of buying.
And so I'm always like, put this headset on, you got to try this.
She's like, no, get it away.
I don't want it.
Yeah, I'll have to try it.
So like, yeah, I don't know.
You know, like the thing about vertigo is once it's triggered, it's really hard to get rid of it.
Like it just stays right there in your eyes, but maybe I'll try it.
We'll see.
Maybe, maybe.
All right.
So.
Can you tell our listeners a little bit about yourself, where you what you do at memory Fox and kind of the work, how you got into this work, what you do? Yeah.
Yeah.
It's kind of a fun story.
So I grew up in Buffalo, New York in a very, uh, can't tell by my last name, very Italian family.
And so we were telling a lot of stories, right.
Sitting around the dinner table telling stories.
And I always say that we're like, 80 percent true.
But we have big storytellers in our family.
And, uh, so that was always like core core to who I am.
And, uh, but you don't think about it abstractly.
You just kind of live it.
Right.
And then I joined the army.
And when I was in the army, I traveled to a lot of the main bloods, Iraq, Afghanistan, Alaska.
Germany, Oklahoma, New York, all these places.
And like what I learned a lot about is the power of storytelling to be able to connect with people on a very, very visceral, very human level.
It transcends I'll You know, socioeconomic status, it transcends age, it transcends cultures a lot of amazing interactions with people in Iraq and Afghanistan who would tell stories, right? They're a very rich storytelling culture.
And, uh, again, it added to like that core feeling of like storytelling as, as who we are.
And so when I got out of the army, I actually originally built Memory Fox as a way to interview pre dementia elderly to be able to get their life stories you know, before they can't tell it anymore.
So you sit down with them.
You do a guided interview and it was really neat and the uh, but I couldn't really figure out how to turn it into a business I didn't really know what I was doing back then.
I just gotten out of the army I didn't know what I was doing And so the the we worked with a naval museum here in buffalo And they wanted to use it to collect stories from veterans for a fundraising campaign and I was like, oh my god Because I didn't really know anything about fundraising at that point.
I was like, Oh, that's kind of cool.
Tell me more about that.
We kind of unpacked what their challenges were of collecting video and keeping all organized and like all these challenges of nonprofits to leverage video and content in general, when it comes to fundraising, I was like, well, that.
That's kind of interesting.
Let's let's walk the dog on that a little bit.
And so we did, we did a practice, you know, we did kind of a trial with them.
They introduced us to United Way, the Community Foundation, and they were like, this is actually a big problem.
Storytelling is like the Thing that nonprofits do to make money and like it's actually way harder than you think that it is because because of certain things right collecting content from the people you serve whether it's your Volunteers or your community members or even your employees or your board members.
It's like pulling teeth It is a really painful process and you need to take that content You need to collect it on site or collect it like virtually and then you need to keep it all organized by You This isn't just like marketing content.
These are people's real stories.
And it could be a veteran talking about PTSD, right? And so you've got to keep it organized and care for it.
It can't just be floating on a shared drive somewhere.
You need to be able to reach out to them.
You need their contact info.
Oh, by the way, you also need consent for use and the specific use that it's going to be used for.
And like, also another thing, like consent is not in perpetuity.
You run the risk of, you know, reharm, like harming somebody, let's say it's a domestic violence victim.
And then their spouse gets out of jail three years later.
And that video of them talking about a sitting on your website or sitting on social media, right now, you, you could re harm that individual.
And so now you need to package all the content because it's raw.
You need to do something cool with it and like, get it out there.
And then finally it needs to like, Go into your fundraising systems.
Everybody has a different CRM.
Everybody has a different online giving platforms, but like you got to get your content into that stuff.
And so like, there's this end to end process that we understood that we learned about from like content generation, all the way to the ROI that you get from that content.
That's just all these different tools that are unintegrated or just generally don't work for what you need to do.
And so we're like.
Okay, let's do that.
That's a lot of fun.
We'll get to work with amazing nonprofits and we do every day So it's like the best job I could I never thought when I got outta the Army that I would have a job as good as being like a commander.
And I, I, I, I do.
And it's like amazing.
'cause they get to work with amazing people both on my team and uh, and, and also our customers, right? They're like nonprofits doing amazing, amazing things.
We get to help them share their story.
Like, what, what an honor, right? And so, yeah.
Yeah.
There's so much there.
Yeah.
So, well, okay.
So I want to say that I love this dimension of work because when I interact with nonprofits and especially if they're a nonprofit who hasn't really engaged in fundraising really dynamically, right.
They're, they're struggling.
Maybe they're at the beginning of the nonprofit.
Phase or whatever.
The first thing that I want them to tell me is tell me a story that has transformed your life because of your work.
Right.
And they all have a break.
And it's that goosebump story.
That is the reason you keep doing what you're doing because you're like, wow, this matters.
And so, so I love that you capture that and.
And I know the power of it that when you started sharing, like kind of just the dynamics of, of how memory Fox got started, you know, recorder recording older individual stories who have dementia several things.
I was reminded of several things.
One, my mother in law did that with my grandmother and it was such a blessing to her.
And it's a blessing that we can continue to benefit from.
My grandmother didn't have dementia, but she was just.
Elderly.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And and then I, I think about going to the Holocaust museum in Washington DC.
I don't know if you have their, their story database is available to listen to and like how powerful it is to just know, right.
When you hear a story and you see the person telling it.
That's a different level, right? Yeah, but think about it.
Like, they're so good at it, right? Like the, the Holocaust, there's probably no, maybe there's nobody better in the world than the Holocaust Museum at telling stories.
And so like, but, but our goal is like, Well, we'll all never be the Holocaust Museum.
Right.
And our missions may not be as powerful.
Right.
It might be something different with animals or something like that.
But like, but how do we capture that magic and make it accessible so that anybody can do it? Right.
Yeah, it's not necessarily like their content is going to be.
And plus they have a bajillion dollar endowment.
Yeah, they do have a huge debt of it, but actually it doesn't matter.
Right.
Even if it's just one story.
From your foundation or from your organization, it matters that one story connects with other people's heart and energy.
It just does.
Right.
And so you're providing a way to do this with the people that you work with.
So I love, I love that.
Tell me, okay.
And then you described.
What all has to happen? And I was like, wow, I didn't even think about all of that, but I know I've heard you talk about ethical storytelling and the importance of ethical storytelling and this methodology of tracking all of it and making sure that you have all of this back data is a key piece of ethical storytelling, right? Yeah.
And so the way I think about it is this is like, and you could, you could think of any mission is like, but the easiest one for me as a veteran, right? A veteran who is maybe suffering from PTSD and maybe, maybe they've spiraled and maybe there's some serious issues and debt store, the stories that they tell, they might be crying in them.
They might, it might be really powerful.
And it's like, Oh, it's just sitting on somebody's Google drive.
Just like floating in the ether and like and then five years from now.
They're like, who is this guy? I don't even can we use this like how I bet a lot of your listeners have experienced that they have a hard drive Or a shared drive filled with tons of content that they can't use Because they don't know who's in it or whether it, what it's allowed to be used for.
And right, because we're not handling that con, we just have a share drive with like dump of content.
And it's like, well, no, let's, let's care for that content in the same though, because, because a person's story is integral to who they are as a human.
So we should care for it in the same way that we would care for a human to, to, to trivialize someone's story and commoditize it is to.
To, to harm who they are as a human, right? And that's not like philosophy.
Like that's, I think we all understand not hold sacred, right? Like the for profit world is the, they don't care, right? They'll, they're just selling products, but if you're selling mission, your virtues need to be aligned with your mission.
And if you're treating people's stories like they're like their for profit content, right? That's just trivial.
Like then we're not doing the best for our people, but, but it's hard.
It's, it's, it's not, I don't mean to say that it's easy.
And that's why we're building what we're building is to make that easy so that it is a somewhat more trivial process.
an afterthought process where, hey, this is how we tell stories.
This is how we manage our stories.
And we know we're doing it ethically because this thing keeps us on rails and make sure we're doing it ethically.
So we don't have to think about that stuff.
So we can get back to our mission and like the story process, the storytelling process is kind of solved from end to end.
Yeah.
I think that that's really a gift that you're giving to nonprofits because you know, they're not not the people that work in nonprofits are the most generous and sure, careful people that I've ever met.
And they do that, you know, this is something that once they know about, it's something that they're really going to want to be thoughtful about.
And I, and so I love that, you know, memory Fox helps.
Do that for organizations.
Yeah.
And there's like a bigger, broader thing too, is like, well, look at all, like the technology out there, it's all sort of like data and I love data.
I'm a big data nerd, but it's all, all, a lot of the tech is like CRM focused, like the center of gravity of the nonprofit segment and like all the technology is really the CRM.
And so.
And there's a lot of those.
It's a pretty mature market with a lot of really big companies.
But like, what we're trying to get to is like, your contacts are just a piece of it.
And they're really not the most important piece, because if you don't have content, you could have all the contacts in the world and it doesn't even matter if you don't have something to tell them.
way to like, to delight them.
And so like, you've got your four pillars of fundraising, which are your, you know, you have your CRM, your online giving your website and your social media, you know, stack, whatever that is like, those are kind of your four pillars, but the bedrock underneath.
If you don't have content, then what those things don't do anything for you.
You're just asking people to donate.
You're not delighting them with, with like rich media about your mission.
And then you could contact them more, right? Cause you're delighting them.
You're giving them value all the time rather than just asking all the time.
And maybe you're asking them for stories and now they're part of your mission in a more visceral way than just a donor.
So there's like a lot, there's a lot to do.
Yeah, I think that this is a delightful way.
I think that the non profits.
can delight in this type of collection too, because, you know, it's just like the heart that keeps on giving because there is nothing better than hearing how your organization really made a positive impact.
On someone's life.
Yes.
It's amazing.
The most beautiful thing.
It's why we do it.
Right.
And like, not just that story, but like where we push people is, and this is kind of like an abstraction, but I'm pretty, I love the idea of it is what we tell people is like, what's the old way? The old way is telling star Wars stories.
So, and I'm a big star Wars fan, but star Wars stories are singular.
They're sort of like.
They have that old story structure of like the hero's journey and things like that.
And trying to shoehorn a human story into that is is not really realistic.
You know, let's Luke Skywalker story that was crafted very specifically to tug on certain heartstrings.
But like in real life, someone They go through your program and then they're back a couple of years later, or they, you know what I mean? Like these are people that have real human journeys just like any of us, right? And so what we are encouraged people is not to talk about Star Wars stories, me singular vertical stories, but go horizontal and tell Springsteen stories.
I'm a big Bruce Springsteen fan, but it could be Taylor Swift.
It could be Beyonce.
It could be any musician, right? They tell broad, a lot of broader stories.
So that like.
How many times you listen to an album and you're like, maybe not, you don't love every song, but there's one song that you're like, that's my favorite song in the entire world.
It like resonates with me specifically.
So if you're telling a broad Springsteen stories, a lot of different stories, well, now you're telling a story for everybody.
So a veteran may not be connected to a story about a 20 year old college student who's having a problem.
But if you tell.
A story about a veteran at your organization could even be a volunteer, right? Or an employee like that connects with them in a way.
So we encourage people is to tell a broader amount of stories more often because a is good for social media.
social media wants more content.
B, it gives you more opportunities to contact your audience through email and through your newsletter with delightful content.
But three, everybody's going to see themselves in your organization.
Everybody's going to have a piece where they feel connected to your organization.
Whereas the old way, if you're just telling one story of impact, a Star Wars story, like, well, someone may be in a very different situation and you're not affecting them.
And now you're, you're actually separating them.
And so what you want is a big welcome sign.
That's like, Hey, we want everybody.
And so we encourage Springsteen stories is what we call them.
I can't pat that, unfortunately.
Probably.
I don't think Bruce would like that, but I have a quote that that makes me think of.
Audre Lorde said, uh, there is no such thing as a single issue struggle because we do not live single issue lives.
Yes, totally.
Have you heard that quote before? No, but I love that.
Who said that? Audre Lorde.
And I, yes, that quote, when I read that quote, it has literally imprinted on my mind.
And I, I looked it up just so that I wouldn't misquote it, but that is so powerful.
That we're not.
And so like to, to communicate our story.
And this is the thing I, you know, I teach grant writing and I teach fundraising and we do talk about using story.
Totally.
And I think when you start collecting and you start looking at story like this.
It will transform the written word, just like it will transform because it transforms you as a person.
Right.
And so like, I mean, it's just so powerful.
I really hope that our listeners just stop and spend some time pondering stories and, and they think about if we collect our stories.
This is such a sacred gift.
And that's really the, the language that like, won't leave me is that that's a sacred gift that somebody has given you.
Sacred gift.
Yes.
And how do we, how can we help share their sacred grip gift with others? And, you know, in fundraising, we do that.
I think the work that you're doing at memory Fox really catalyzes that.
I think that's the right word.
You know, close enough.
Well, look, it also, it also.
It also elevates people, right? Like it, it has an effect of making people feel valuable and that in and of itself is a good, and maybe that content will turn out to be not very high quality and maybe you could just never use, there's no amount of packaging that you could do to, to pull it together, but like you asked them.
Their story.
You ask them their feelings, you ask them.
And for a lot of people in this world, it's like Eleanor Rigby, right? Like some people are very lonely, like, you know what I mean? Like if you ask somebody their story, that's a good in and of itself.
And it's just so much beauty in that it's not a transactional action.
It's actually an uplifting thing.
And so your mission, like you're executing your mission when you ask someone to tell their story yeah.
And I think that the same is true for any fundraising.
You are giving a gift when you ask somebody to join in.
Yeah.
And so, so, you know, I, I, I just love that.
I was, I really was looking forward to this conversation because I knew like it would be so fun.
Yeah.
So fun.
So, okay.
I have to ask you, what is the most powerful story you've.
experience being collected in this work that you're doing? Well, look, my, my, uh, daughter when she was born was in the NICU for about a month.
And so, we, uh, here in Buffalo at the children's hospital and she's okay.
She's beautiful.
She's wonderful.
No, no, no issues.
But it was obviously a very scary thing.
So I'm very connected to the Children's Hospital here in Buffalo.
And it they, they're at, they're now, they're a customer, which is just like, just too, it's too much, right? Sometimes, and you, sometimes you got to pinch yourself and be like, I can't believe this is all like happening.
But and so they did a NICU reunion, With a lot of the I was actually out of time, couldn't even go to it.
I know.
Is that unbelievable? But they did a reunion with a lot of the parents and one of my best friends was there.
His daughter was in the NICU there and like the stories that they collected and like with the kids and with.
the parents and like people are, you know, crying, but like, boy, it was just, it's just, I get chills just like thinking about it, but we get so many, I mean, like it really is kind of hard to pick, like anything with children is obviously very powerful, but we work with like a veteran.
We work with the organization called Hiring Our Heroes and it's a veterans transition program for veterans.
Getting out of the military and then to help with job placement.
So they do some like job training, uh, you know, in writing your resume and things like that.
And they take video before and video after.
And like, I've seen people I served with go through that program and it's like, Yeah, like so crazy.
And so like there's like sad ones that tug on your head, but there's also ones like that where it's like, wow, it really comes full circle there.
So, I mean, it's, I mean, people are using us to collect content from like, uh, uh, uh, relief efforts going down in the south, southeast.
The U.
S.
like around Florida, Georgia, Carolinas.
So it's like, it's really powerful stuff.
Yeah.
As you can imagine.
So, okay.
So tell our listeners how they can find you if they want more information about Memory Fox and they want to learn more.
Yes.
Very easily.
Just go to, just search for memory Fox, memory Fox.
io.
We are on every social media channel.
So you can find us on there, including Tik TOK.
My marketing director Carly does some amazing content on there.
If people are on there, but certainly LinkedIn Instagram, all, all the, all the hits.
And, uh, our, our process is very, we know this is new.
We know for a lot of organizations, this is new.
This isn't like giving you a CRM and everybody kind of knows how a CRM works, but this is kind of a new behavior for a lot of organizations because they've been doing it manually and they just been like dropping everything into a Google drive.
So there's a little bit of education and building of a storytelling culture.
I think that goes on in the early stages of having memory Fox.
And so our, our sales sales, right.
Sales process is very uh, consultative, like we're going to sit down with you and we're going to help you build a plan that you can do on your own.
You don't need memory Fox.
Like if you don't think you're ready for Fox, Like you and your or let's say you're small enough where a google drive is just fine.
That's okay Right, but like we're going to give you the tools you need to be successful during this process We're even going to sit down with you.
We're going to look at your calendar with you We're going to talk about your key events and programs throughout the year We're going to give you three campaigns that you can do on your own.
So we take that very, we take pride in that.
I think because nonprofits are just so different from like a for profit organization.
Budgets go up, they go down, they were reliant on grants that are sometimes there, sometimes not.
So yeah, just find us to, we just have a very standard form that you can fill out on our website and, uh, and we'll take care of you, I promise through the entire process.
And we'll, we'll make sure we match you with you know, the stories that you need to be successful.
That's awesome.
And if there is one piece of advice you want to leave with everyone, what is it? Consent.
Find a way, if you are handling content on your own without memory fogs, consent is the north star of ethical storytelling and all the parameters of it, how you keep track of it, how you have the ability to reach out to those people later.
And they have the ability to reach out to you if their situation has changed and they're maybe embarrassed or they just don't want it on the internet anymore.
You know, consent like with children, how do you get parents and then how do you keep it all organized, I think is a big piece.
So really consent is the biggest piece of ethical storytelling.
And so consider your consent process, how you manage it, how you track it and how you make sure that you don't assume perpetuity for consent.
That would be my advice.
That would be my biggest advice.
That is great.
Chris, thank you so much for joining us.
Yes.
It's been so much fun.
I really do think that you are.
I'm helping us to capture something sacred in a way that respects all parties.
And and I was going to say as a scrapbooker, I just have to, this was on my mind and I got to see earlier, you talked about the video that isn't the most beautiful and you know, maybe it can't be packaged, but I, I have followed, I did digital scrapbooking for about eight years and.
Even the least beautiful picture has a really significant story to tell.
Oh my goodness.
I'm so with you.
Yeah.
And so like, I just, I can't imagine that being a case where like, it's not usable at all.
There's gotta be something to be able to honor the, the sacred gift that was given to us.
So I love that.
And I think, I'm just going to think about that all day.
All through the day.
Thank you so much.
Thank you for our listeners to, for listening.
And I hope to hear you for our, see you back next week.
Thank you so much for tuning in to this episode of Nonprofit 411.
I hope you found today's conversation as insightful and inspiring as I did.
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