Latest / Simply Bitcoin / Fred Krueger | Bitcoin ETF Changes Everything | Simply Bitcoin IRL

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Fred Krueger | Bitcoin ETF Changes Everything | Simply Bitcoin IRL · Simply Bitcoin

0:00
Hello everybody. Welcome to another episode of
0:02
Simply Bitcoin IRL. Today we have a very special
0:06
guest. We have Fred Krueger.
0:08
But before we bring them up on stage, I do want to give a shout
0:11
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All right, ladies and gentlemen, no more delay.
0:46
I do want to bring Fred up on stage.
0:49
Fred, you have a quite, a very, very impressive CV.
0:55
You have a bachelor's from Cornell University in in
0:57
mathematics, and you have a PhD from Stanford and Operations
1:02
Research and statistics. So that's quite impressive.
1:07
How are you? And first of all, not only how
1:10
are you very, very great stuff and content that you're dropping
1:16
on Twitter, very, very valuable. Your account, your account grew
1:19
extremely quickly, which is not that hard that sorry, it's it's
1:23
not that easy to do. So obviously people are finding
1:27
value in your work and what you're contributing to the
1:29
community. Thanks a lot, Nico.
1:31
I appreciate it. Yeah.
1:34
So, so you know, this has been a a been a wild ride.
1:38
You you were not on my radar for a while, were you?
1:42
Were you looking at Bitcoin Twitter?
1:44
Where, when, when did you decide to jump into the fray, so to
1:47
speak? Well, OK, so I was I've been in
1:50
Bitcoin for for quite some time, and I've been in crypto before
1:53
Bitcoin even for longer, right? But I I haven't been.
1:59
I really haven't seen any kind of need to be on Bitcoin Twitter
2:02
per Southeast until I think it was December 1st of last year,
2:10
so about 2 1/2 months from ago, three months ago, right.
2:13
So December, January, February, 3 months ago.
2:16
So 90 days I've been on Bitcoin Twitter.
2:18
That's it. And the only reason I decided to
2:23
get on Bitcoin Twitter is that I kind of felt like I had a unique
2:26
point of view about this, you know, Bitcoin ETF.
2:32
It kind of needed to be kind of sad.
2:34
And so I sort of hopped on really just to talk about the
2:38
Bitcoin ETF, that that was the only thing I was sort of
2:40
interested in talking about. Now I've sort of talked a little
2:45
bit about a few other things, but I'm still mainly interested
2:48
in kind of this ETF story and how it's going to, you know,
2:53
really accelerate the the price adoption of Bitcoin that you
2:59
know, the adoption of Bitcoin is a savings tool.
3:01
Does that make sense? Yes, it absolutely makes sense.
3:04
But let's talk about that, right.
3:05
So for audience, you know it, it definitely, etcetera.
3:08
And again, from my perspective, right, Fred, I'm the 1/3 of my
3:14
life has been in Bitcoin, right? It's my, it's 8th year.
3:20
You know, I'm 30 years old, basically 30 years old,
3:23
literally 1/3 of my life. This is my career.
3:25
This is what I know. So, you know, when I've ever had
3:29
Foss or Lavish or Lapard, I always say the same thing.
3:33
They're incredible guys, incredibly smart.
3:36
I always told them the same thing.
3:38
Caitlyn Long. I always told them the same
3:39
thing. I'm like, look, I I I learned
3:42
Bitcoin 1st and then I learned traditional finance second,
3:46
right? So like looking backwards.
3:49
And I I started in, I well, I have.
3:52
I've sort of three. There's sort of three parts to
3:54
me. Like part of me is, is a tech
3:57
person. Right.
3:57
So I'm I have a PhD you know and and and really kind of three
4:02
subjects. But it was this way.
4:03
I have Donald Knuth from computer science.
4:06
I don't know if you've ever ever done any sort of theoretical
4:09
computer science but you probably run across the book The
4:12
Art of Computer Programming that was that was Donald Knuth who
4:17
was on my thesis advisor and then Tom Cover in the stats
4:20
department and Curtis Eves in the operations research
4:24
department. So, yeah, all all I did and then
4:27
I did a, you know, a thesis and that was just pure math, right.
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I I just say it's pure math because it is.
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It was just, you know, pretty hardcore math.
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Then I went to work on Wall Street and you know, I was on
4:39
Wall Street for six years as a prop trader at Salomon Brothers.
4:42
And so, and that's a long time by the way, you know, like
4:47
spending six years kind of managing prop money on an
4:50
arbitrage desk that'll burn you out pretty quick.
4:53
I can imagine, I can imagine that in that in that type of
4:56
environment. So you know, you, you, you, you
4:58
have this very impressive background, right?
5:01
You know, educational, academic background.
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Then I then I spent ten years or 20 years in tech and I've I'm
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probably the most serial entrepreneurial ever.
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Me in that I've I've I've have over 10 exits and that's
5:17
completely non crypto related right.
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And I've all these exits are, you know, me, me at the company
5:24
and and an exit for me is something where you you sell for
5:28
more than $10 million, right. And my total kind of exit is
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$500 million. So I've sold $500 million worth
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of companies and you know you can obviously I had some
5:40
investors in BCS and so on in this, but you know I made a lot
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of money in, I made a lot of money in finance, I've made a
5:47
lot of money in tech and I've made crypto, right.
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So, so I that's kind of my background.
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So I have I'm in a position where I can kind of look at
5:58
stuff and I saw some stuff that other people didn't see, people
6:03
like James Lavish who I like James's content a lot.
6:07
Right. And and Greg Foss they're more
6:10
focused on sort of the economic sort of like the the US debt
6:16
situation is is sort of unsustainable, right.
6:18
That's their thing. I'm not so much of A macro type
6:22
guy. I'm not not, not to say that I
6:24
don't like their stuff, but I just don't find it very useful
6:27
for trading to focus on those things.
6:30
But I the one thing I did focus on immediately was the CTF,
6:34
right? And I was just like, when I saw
6:38
the CTF come out, I was just sort of like, why aren't why
6:42
isn't everybody just screaming about this thing?
6:44
Because this is by far the biggest thing I've ever seen in
6:48
Bitcoin. Right.
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And I just started saying guys like you don't understand, like
6:53
everything else you're saying doesn't matter.
6:55
This is going to be this is 10X whatever you, you, whatever you,
7:00
whatever you're talking about. Right.
7:03
So you know, you know I've, I've, I've, I've sort of ruffled
7:09
a few feathers along the way because you know some people
7:11
have been like well Fred you know it's not that interest.
7:14
There's other more interesting things like Nost or Fetty Mint
7:19
or things like that, whatever. And my my point is, look, those
7:22
are interesting intellectual ideas, but they have about that
7:26
much, they're going to have that much of an impact on the price
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of Bitcoin and this ETF when it happens.
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I said this in December. I said just mark my words, this
7:37
is going to be, this is this is the main event that you guys are
7:40
going to see, right? And you know, then the ETF came
7:44
out and it looked like a failure to some people initially, right
7:49
in the month of January, it looked kind of negative, right?
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Like the, you know, GBTC was selling and then, you know, the
7:57
other, the other ones were barely keeping up with GBTC
8:00
selling. And it, you know, if you wanted
8:04
to say the glass was half empty, you could make the case the
8:06
glass was half empty. But I kept on saying I'd be like
8:10
this is crazy. I mean like this is going to be
8:14
this is unbelievable like this amount of the amount of demand
8:17
that we're seeing from Wall Street.
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And so I I was very, very positive during that period and
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I remain you know just obviously massively bullish on this whole
8:27
thing right now. And I just think you can't be,
8:30
you can't be bullish enough on this these ETFs you just, it's
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just and it's just sort of like it's math, it's finance and it's
8:37
just like and it's finally we have a vehicle where people can
8:44
invest in this stuff. That's it.
8:46
That's the bottom line. So OK, it's the bottom line and
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I'm, I'm glad that you gave me that backgrounds, you know,
8:54
tech, Wall Street, academia, you know, successful 10 exits, you
8:59
said. And what got you interested is
9:03
the ETFs. Right.
9:05
So and could you give a little bit of like a kind of like a
9:09
crash course elevator pitch so to speak to our audience, Our
9:14
audience is mostly, you know, bitcoiners, self custody.
9:17
You know that's that's the people who watch this show.
9:21
Why and? Me too.
9:23
I'm a self custody Bitcoin, right?
9:24
So. Yeah, why was the Bitcoin what,
9:28
what makes the Bitcoin ETF this major catalyst to take Bitcoin
9:33
to the next level price wise and from your perspective?
9:36
OK, So what drives Bitcoin price higher?
9:40
It's new money coming into the ecosystem, right?
9:43
And you know it's new people buying into sort of the idea
9:49
virus that Bitcoin is a is a good place to save your money.
9:53
But if you look back into, you know, 2017 time frame, that
9:58
cycle or the 2021 cycle, it wasn't sort of mainstream people
10:04
putting money into their four O1 KS that was buying into Bitcoin.
10:08
Why? Because those people couldn't
10:10
really invest very easily. They had to transfer money out.
10:13
They had to put it into Coinbase effectively, really Coinbase in
10:17
the US and then they had to buy Bitcoin with that and hold it in
10:22
Coinbase. Now some of them like did what
10:28
you did and what I did, which is, you know, self custody, your
10:31
Bitcoin, you have to learn all about self custody and all that.
10:35
And it it's a great thing. Look, self custody is a
10:37
fantastic thing, but it's a complicated thing and in
10:42
adoption of new technologies, any barrier that you put in
10:47
front of people really, really will stop that spread that
10:52
adoption. So it's amazing to me that
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Bitcoin has has gotten to where it has without something like
10:58
the ETF. But now when you take the ETF,
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all of a sudden you have 100 million plus Americans who have
11:07
money in their you know, Charles Schwab or Merrill Lynch.
11:11
Merrill Lynch made not really a great example, but let's say
11:15
Charles Schwab or Fidelity accounts, right?
11:17
And with just a few clicks you now have exposure to Bitcoin and
11:23
contrast that with the same person going to buy Bitcoin on
11:28
Coinbase. Much more difficult and even
11:30
more difficult, you know, signing up for a, you know, self
11:35
custody, single sig or multi sig platform like Casa or untrained.
11:42
So you have, it's really a maybe 100 times more less barriers to
11:48
entry. And when you cut these barriers
11:50
to entry down that much and you've just tapped into
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effectively the largest capital market in the world.
12:00
You don't have to be a genius to realize that that's going to,
12:04
that's just going to move the market just tremendously.
12:07
And I I think we're just in the very beginning of that right
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now, so. And and and and and let's talk
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about that right because you've had you know a couple tweets,
12:17
you know in the recent, the recent past, one of the one of
12:23
the latest I'm reading is a 1 billion a day and new demand
12:26
should create 100 billion and new market cap daily that's
12:30
enough to move the price A to 117 K in 10 trading sessions.
12:37
So what did you mean by that? Well, OK, so there's this.
12:40
There's this concept that that people refer to as a multiplier
12:48
effect, right. So what that is, is, let's just
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say there's a billion dollars that comes into the Bitcoin
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market over a period of time, a short, relatively short period
13:00
of time. How much does that move the
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price by? Well, it doesn't move the price.
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It doesn't move the market cap up exactly 1 billion because
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it's not like there's people are just saying, oh, I'll just
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calmly sell you the exact 1 billion at the current price.
13:14
No, you're going to have to buy up, get that Bitcoin from
13:17
somebody, right? And there's not an infinite
13:20
amount of Bitcoin that's on these exchanges.
13:22
There's about 1.8 million Bitcoin that's sitting on all of
13:28
the exchanges and all of that is not even for sale, right.
13:31
So you're looking at you know hundreds of thousands of coins
13:35
that are really kind of actively for sale at any at any point in
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time. And if you if you look at sort
13:42
of 10,000 Bitcoin a day or more, which is kind of where the
13:46
demand is right now from these funds, they're just, I mean this
13:51
thing can literally eat through the entire supply of Bitcoin and
13:55
all the exchanges in a matter of like 100 days at this rate.
13:59
So the, to use that exact analogy, you have a billion
14:05
dollars coming in in a day, right.
14:07
That's Adam Back just posted this this thing which he's
14:10
right. There's been about a billion
14:12
dollars a day of of kind of raw demand from Wall Street coming
14:15
in. But then there's been these
14:17
liquidations of GBTC from these bankruptcies, right, like FTX
14:23
and you know Genesis in particular, right.
14:30
And so there's this, there's been still a lot of selling.
14:32
So it's still muted relative to what it's going to be in say a
14:35
month once we've worked through all those numbers.
14:39
And if you look at $1 billion coming in, that has the impact
14:43
of raising the the market cap of Bitcoin by $100 billion.
14:48
So it's 100 X multiplier. Bank of America has estimated
14:52
that this multiplier is 118. Other people have said it may be
14:56
even as high as 200, but let's just say it's 100, right?
15:00
Well, that means you're going to increase the market cap by $100
15:05
billion. Well the the entire market cap
15:07
of Bitcoin is $1.3 trillion right now.
15:10
So it's a 7% increase in one day, right.
15:14
So you do that for 10 days and you're going to double the the
15:18
effectively or attempt rating sessions you you're more or less
15:21
double the the price of Bitcoin. Gotcha.
15:24
Gotcha. So.
15:26
Pretty amazing. So and OK, and and and I.
15:29
Mean you move from 67 to 100,110 thousand whatever the number is.
15:34
Gotcha. So and and let's talk about that
15:36
for a SEC. So like because I I think a lot
15:39
of people, you know, I think they misunderestimated how much
15:46
the ETF was going to influence it, right?
15:48
Never in Bitcoin's history have we hit an all time high before
15:53
the halving, right. That's never happened before.
15:57
You're basically saying that there's all this capital kind of
16:00
waiting on the sidelines. BlackRock is a fan.
16:04
Fidelity is a fan. Blackrock's holdings are about
16:07
to surpass Michael Sailor's holdings.
16:09
They're very, very close. I think the last time I checked,
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BlackRock had 183,000 Bitcoin. Michael Sailor has 193,000.
16:16
Tomorrow they will they, will they.
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Will increase they will. They will surpass it.
16:21
So where do we go from here? You know, where, where do you
16:24
see Bitcoin at the end of the year?
16:27
What's what's going to happen? And and and not to mention, I
16:30
kind of want to talk about the supply shock a little bit,
16:32
right. So the halving is right around
16:34
the corner. You know, last time I was
16:36
checking the figures, there's estimated to be about 10,000
16:39
Bitcoin being bought on the market every single day.
16:43
Only 900 are being mined in about a month or so month and
16:47
change, you know it's going to be 450 Bitcoin being mined.
16:52
So this is, you know, I don't think, I don't, I don't think
16:55
anything like this has ever happened before in the history
16:59
of financial markets. Would it be correct to say
17:03
something like that? No, I think, I mean, honestly,
17:06
you're going to underestimate the impact.
17:10
You can, you can say all those things and you're still
17:12
underestimating it, right? Because there's so many other
17:16
things that are going. So the only thing you
17:18
potentially are overestimating is the impact of the happening,
17:21
right. Because the happening is, you
17:24
know, as you said, it's the what is the impact?
17:26
The impact right now is, well, we know the right now and for
17:30
the rest of the next four years, there's going to be 450 Bitcoin
17:34
per day, right? Well, right now the demand for
17:37
Wall Street is 10,000 Bitcoin per day.
17:41
So it's 20 times the happening right now as Bitcoin price goes
17:46
up, it won't be 20 times this happening.
17:50
Let's say Bitcoin price double S well then it'll still be 10
17:54
times the happening. It's still just an enormous
17:56
number, right? It'll just an enormous number.
17:59
Even if Bitcoin quadruples, we're still going to be five
18:02
times the impact of the happening.
18:05
So I just actually don't think The Happening is going to make
18:08
any difference at all at this point relative to relative to
18:13
what we're seeing these flows from these CTFS, they're just so
18:16
much bigger than anybody ever thought.
18:20
So I don't think the happening is that the having is that much,
18:25
that much of a big deal and I and I actually don't think it's
18:28
going to be a big deal from here on out.
18:31
So I I think we've seen the last of the cycles.
18:34
I think it's it's over. So you don't, you don't believe
18:37
2026 comes around, you know we're going to have that 80%
18:42
drop that's done, that's done and dusted because of the ETFs?
18:47
Yeah, I don't think it's going to be a a 2026 one year drop
18:53
kind of like that. I think that's over, that
18:55
narrative is over. It doesn't mean that we won't
18:58
potentially see a big drop some point, right.
19:02
But I don't think it's going to be confined to a year.
19:05
I don't think you can pinpoint it at exactly this happening
19:09
because I just don't think the having are going to be that
19:11
important relevant in the future.
19:14
It's not to say that we can't have a bear market for Bitcoin.
19:17
I do think we we could absolutely have a bear market
19:19
for Bitcoin because every single financial asset that has been
19:25
known to man so far has had their markets, whether it's the
19:29
US stock market, the Japanese stock market, the bond market.
19:32
Yeah every asset class has bear markets and they all get ahead
19:37
of themselves and they all, they all crash and then they they
19:41
can, they can recover. But you know something like the
19:46
NASDAQ crash of in 2000 where it took till basically 2010 to
19:52
really come back, took a decade to get back to NASDAQ 5000, that
19:57
would not surprise me down the road with Bitcoin.
19:59
I think we're so far away from that point where that would
20:03
happen. You know, it may happen once we
20:07
get to 1,000,000 Bitcoin and we have a crash and we go from
20:11
1,000,000 to 300,000 and we it takes five years to get back to
20:16
1,000,000 for example, right. I see that as possibility.
20:20
I just don't think there's regularity with the cycles.
20:24
This going to be is going to continue much beyond I I think
20:28
we're that's my opinion. Interesting, Interesting.
20:32
Interesting. OK, so so no more, no more
20:37
cycles. The ETF, you know played a
20:40
played a big role in this. And then do you kind of there's
20:45
this other theory that's being kind of talked about a little
20:48
bit which is this idea of kind of this left shifted bull run
20:55
top in 2024. I think a lot of people you know
20:59
if the cycle theory is dead, we're are anticipating you know
21:03
a cycle top in 2025. You're making the case that you
21:08
know the that that theory is basically dead.
21:12
So are are you seeing a top potential top in 2024?
21:16
No, no, not at all. OK.
21:21
No, I think look this is I think we're on the beginning part.
21:25
I mean this is obviously this is just you know pure speculation
21:28
as a traitor. But my view is look, I think we
21:31
are on the beginning part of of quite a big bull run in Bitcoin.
21:37
And you know I would, I would an analogous thing would be like
21:43
the price of Facebook from the IP Facebook IPO till now, right.
21:47
We've got this huge, you know unless I think it'll outperform
21:50
that, but I'm just saying I think I think we're on the verge
21:54
of something quite big and quite long.
21:56
And I do think we may have some bear markets and in Bitcoin and
22:02
they could be also big and long. But I think we're think of this
22:05
as sort of the IPO of Bitcoin. This is like Bitcoin finally
22:09
coming to the financial markets. And you know, it's rare that a
22:14
company IPOs does great and then tanks a year later that that's
22:19
usually not what happens. If they do really well, they
22:22
usually continue and they continue to do well for a
22:24
decade. And that's kind of what I think
22:27
for Bitcoin. I think it's going to be a great
22:29
decade for Bitcoin, you know, or at least a great five years for
22:33
Bitcoin, great 5-6 years. And you know, I think we're at a
22:36
very relatively low price of Bitcoin relative to where I
22:40
think it's going to go. So I think it's got a lot of
22:43
room to the future, to upside and I think people should not be
22:48
looking to sell Bitcoin at all right now.
22:50
This is not something that that you should be.
22:53
You shouldn't be looking to trade it.
22:54
You shouldn't be looking to sell it.
22:57
You should absolutely. If you don't have it, you should
23:00
be looking to buy it right now, right here.
23:03
But I think you know, for you, for me, for most of the people
23:05
listening to your podcast, I would say there's nothing to do
23:09
at all in 2024, period. Nothing or 2025.
23:14
I would just, you know, you just hang tight, entertain yourself
23:18
with crypto Twitter, you know, but there's there's no trading
23:24
of this thing right now. This is, this is something that
23:28
we have seen, we are seeing. This is really the catalyst
23:31
you've been waiting for your entire Bitcoin life, right,
23:35
right here. It's just it doesn't get it and
23:38
there's not going to be a next one.
23:40
This is it. This is this is the main event
23:43
right now, right? Black Rock doesn't get any
23:46
bigger than Black Rock, right? Black Rock's the largest asset
23:49
manager on the planet. There's there's nothing bigger
23:52
than Black Rock. This is the ultimate boss in the
23:54
video game. Gotcha.
23:56
Gotcha. OK.
23:58
So no more cycles. This is the the catalyst.
24:02
What would you say to people that feel they're late to the
24:06
party? Is there still potential upside?
24:09
You know, there's this theory of diminishing returns.
24:13
Do you still think that there is major opportunity here for, you
24:17
know, the investors? Yeah, I I.
24:20
I think we're at, if I had to put where we are relative to
24:24
where we're going, I think we're on the road to going to 10 or
24:29
$20 million per Bitcoin. You know what's?
24:32
What's the timeline there? Yeah.
24:35
So I would say the timeline on that's a couple decades, right?
24:40
You know, a couple decades for for us to get to those kind of
24:43
prices. But you know, it wouldn't
24:45
surprise me if we could get to 1,000,000 within a decade,
24:48
right? Now we couldn't get to 1,000,000
24:52
in two years, right. But if I, if if you told me,
24:58
Fred, you're going to have to hold your Bitcoin for a decade
25:00
and you're going to get out on $1,000,000 per coin, I'd say
25:03
wow, what, what's a decade? I'll wait a decade.
25:06
No problem. You know, and you know I'm a
25:09
little older than you, so you know, I'm I've, I've held assets
25:13
for a decade, right. I've held gold bars for three
25:17
decades, you know, and they haven't done bad.
25:20
You know they've gone up 10X in in three decades by gold.
25:24
So I'm I'm prepared to hold Bitcoin for a decade.
25:27
It's not a problem. And if I think it's going to a
25:30
million, I you know, I I don't want to sell it at 300,000 or
25:35
200,000. I want to wait until it gets to
25:37
1,000,000. So I think that's sort of your,
25:43
the intermediate target. The target that you really need
25:46
to focus on is 1,000,000, right? I really think we're going to
25:49
get to Bitcoin 1,000,000. I I I don't have, I mean I would
25:55
say a 99% probability that we get there.
25:58
You know, how long does it take? I don't think it's going to take
26:01
much more than 10 years to get there.
26:03
So I think that's an enormous opportunity from here with
26:07
Bitcoin at, you know, 67,000, right?
26:11
I mean, nothing else is going to get you there.
26:13
You know, you buy a house, I don't know where you live.
26:16
Where do you live, Nico, what, what general area of the of the
26:19
university you live in? Miami, Miami, OK.
26:22
I don't think a Miami condo is going to go up, you know, 10X in
26:32
in the space of a decade. It might go up 2X, right, but
26:37
it's not going to go up 10X. So I think you have to look at
26:40
it over, let's say, a decade from here.
26:44
I think I think Bitcoin's going to be your best performing asset
26:47
over the next decade. So if you buy it right here,
26:51
right here today, so you don't need to have owned it early or
26:55
you don't need to have gotten in early, right here is a great
26:59
time to buy in my opinion. And and now the question is how
27:03
much of your net worth do you put in that, right.
27:07
And I would say, you know, I would do your own research and
27:12
figure out, you know what you think and you know relative to
27:15
your comfort zone and stuff. But you know, I would not.
27:20
I think that if you put 1%, that's not the right number,
27:24
right? Because you don't have, you
27:28
don't have ideas of you don't have 99 ideas that are
27:32
equivalent to Bitcoin. At least I don't, right.
27:36
You know, you might maybe think NVIDIA is going to be a great
27:39
buy. Maybe maybe you think Miami real
27:41
estate is going to be a good buy.
27:42
I don't know. But if I had to put a portfolio
27:45
together and I'm going to put, you know, 5% in Bitcoin and 95%
27:53
in Miami real estate and energy stocks, I think there's
27:57
something wrong with that portfolio construction.
28:00
I mean if I knew what Bitcoin was going to do, I I would move
28:04
those things around pretty much the exact opposite, you know, So
28:08
I I just think that people are under invested in this asset and
28:14
you know, I you can't talk people into getting to what they
28:19
have outside of their comfort zone.
28:22
But you know, I I do think that the more you own, the better of
28:26
this thing. And especially if you're young,
28:29
you know, like, you know, somebody your age should own, I
28:35
would say the majority of their, their net worth should be in
28:39
Bitcoin, in my opinion. You know, if I was, if I was
28:42
your age, I'd pretty much be 100% in Bitcoin and you probably
28:46
are 100% in Bitcoin. Yeah, I mean.
28:49
I've been 100% for eight years now.
28:51
There you. Go.
28:53
So all I'm saying is I agree with your allocation, right.
28:56
So that that's what I would have done.
28:58
You know, now when you get to be my age, you kind of you're like,
29:03
you know you you've got more dependencies and you know you
29:09
don't need, you don't need to grow the money that much, right.
29:13
Yeah. You know, it's it's all a
29:14
personal thing, but but I still think that, you know, when I see
29:20
people saying talking about 10% allocation, I'm like, OK, 10%'s
29:24
OK if you absolutely don't understand Bitcoin, but if you
29:28
understand Bitcoin, why? Why would you be doing 10% of
29:32
your portfolio in Bitcoin? Could you could?
29:34
You explain it real quick. Like, what do you mean?
29:37
So like if if someone told you again, they didn't understand
29:40
Bitcoin. They didn't come from your
29:41
background. It was just, but it's just like
29:44
I, I I'm gonna put 10% in it and and you know, and then you'd be
29:47
like, OK, but you don't understand Bitcoin.
29:49
They'd say, OK, explain it to me.
29:51
Pitch it to me. Why?
29:52
Why should I put more than 10%? Well it's just it's it's what do
29:56
you believe where do what do you think is the expected return
30:00
right. It's a if you if you're sitting
30:02
there and you go, OK great, I really do you think Bitcoin can
30:05
10X over the next decade and you're like, yeah, yeah, I do.
30:09
Great. Well, do you think you know
30:13
Exxon Mobil can 10X over the next decade?
30:16
Well, I think it can double. OK.
30:18
Well then you should be probably owning 0% of Exxon Mobil and
30:25
100% in Bitcoin. Now if you're not really sure
30:28
about the Bitcoin and you really want additional diversification,
30:33
OK, maybe I could see going you know 70% in Bitcoin and 20% or
30:40
30% in Exxon Mobil just if you had those two choices right.
30:45
But it's just mathematically you're doing you're you're
30:48
making a mistake if you're trying to diverse if your number
30:52
one goal is diversification as opposed to concentration in the
30:57
positions that you believe in. Now, I wouldn't recommend doing
31:01
this unless you completely believe in Bitcoin.
31:03
But if you do believe in Bitcoin, I would say you should
31:06
put your money where your mouth is.
31:07
That's all I'm saying, OK, OK and what you have done, right,
31:12
what you have done, you're not taking your money out and you're
31:16
not buying. I mean do you own any S&P 500?
31:21
Why would I? There.
31:22
You go right. So why would you?
31:24
Good. Good point.
31:25
Right. Now I'll tell you one reason you
31:27
would is maybe you're wrong, right?
31:30
Maybe you're wrong. Maybe Bitcoin isn't going to go
31:33
up, or maybe it's going to go down and maybe you're going to
31:35
need the money for something else.
31:38
You know you're going to get hit by a car and you know you're
31:42
going to need to pay for some life or death thing.
31:47
So that's a good reason why not. Yeah, but I could I.
31:50
Could I could sell Bitcoin to do that right, But except you
31:54
might. Be selling Bitcoin potentially
31:57
at the exact one time, right? Yeah, I know.
32:00
But you know, my entry was what, you know, six $700.00, but I
32:04
think I got maybe some of the 500 like you know.
32:07
So a little bit is OK, right. But I guess, I guess what I'm
32:11
trying to say is, yeah, fine, it's the best investment return,
32:17
but the way that I see it is really is freedom.
32:22
So if I own SMP, if I own stocks and all that stuff, again, it's
32:28
not that I'm a hater of stocks, it's I being a bitcoiner.
32:33
I don't really feel like I actually own them, right?
32:36
Like unless I have like these like certificates printed out in
32:41
my home, in my drawer, of which it's not liquid, you know,
32:45
you're going to what, send them back to the brokerage and then
32:47
they have to process them. That's going to take like 2
32:49
weeks in order for me to sell those immediately.
32:52
Not to mention the fact that I can't send them instantaneously
32:54
anywhere around the world. That's not the.
32:56
Way. OK.
32:57
So that's the way they worked in 1870.
33:00
OK. Like, I mean you're you're
33:03
thinking like Cornelius Vanderbilt, right?
33:06
Literally you have these like stock certificates.
33:09
No, no but the. Reason.
33:10
The reason I brought it up that way is because like that would
33:13
be like like if if I have stocks, you know, on my on my
33:19
Robin Hood account or my Charles Schwab account, that's not those
33:23
aren't in my possession A broker.
33:25
A broker's holding that for a custodian is holding that for me
33:28
and and that brings. Us back to the ETF, right?
33:30
Yeah, because a Bitcoin ETF is exactly that, right?
33:36
Yeah. Actively, your Bitcoin is being
33:38
held by Coinbase in the name of BlackRock, in the name of their
33:42
fund. And so you have, you have this
33:45
intermediary between you and your Bitcoin, right?
33:48
So you don't have access to the Bitcoin and and furthermore, you
33:51
can't actually get the actual Bitcoin out of that.
33:54
You can get the dollars, which you can then use to buy the
33:56
Bitcoin, but it's not actually the same as owning the Bitcoin,
34:01
right? Yeah, OK.
34:04
Now, what I would argue is, at the end of the day, what do you
34:13
care? Because if the Bitcoin really
34:15
goes up and you can sell it and you have reasonable conviction
34:21
that they're going to do a good job custodying your Bitcoin, you
34:24
don't really care. Now if the entire system goes to
34:30
hell in a handbasket, right? And we become, you know, this,
34:34
this ends up becoming like Blade Runner, right?
34:37
Or you're going to be walking around the streets of Los
34:40
Angeles, you know, with a Ledger on your neck.
34:43
Right. And you're basically going to go
34:46
buy gasoline by, you know, sending funds through your
34:51
samurai wallet to somebody else. Well, OK, then you kind of want
34:55
to have the Bitcoin. But in the other scenario,
34:59
right? Which is where the world looks a
35:01
lot more like the world today, except there are people who have
35:05
the Bitcoin and there are people who don't, I don't think you
35:08
care. Right.
35:08
So and for most people, they're just not gonna go this route of
35:12
self custody. They're just not.
35:14
That's just won't. They won't do it right.
35:18
Yeah, and by. The way.
35:20
By the way. I completely agree with you cuz
35:22
I see that with my parents for example, there is definitely a
35:28
they you know they take self custody and multi sig you know
35:31
kind of set up like collaborative custody with all
35:33
the different services on chain Casa blah blah blah.
35:36
So there, there, there. There's good ways to do it, but
35:38
I'm the de facto IT guy, basically.
35:43
But they got. They got they they got their son
35:46
OK, what happens to be A in Bitcoin B technical right and
35:51
they can call at any 10 minutes most most IT guy.
35:55
Have. A guy like you, but they can
35:58
help get advice on this stuff and and they just don't have the
36:02
time to learn about this stuff right.
36:04
They're just they're not gonna do it and.
36:08
I and I agree with you, but but my OK, so I agree with you, by
36:11
the way, but just to play devil's advocate for the sake of
36:14
the conversation, what about the infamous six one O 2 order?
36:18
You know, that's like one of the the talking points from the
36:21
bitcoiners are like, oh, you know, they've done this in the
36:23
past. They've just seized the money.
36:26
And, you know, there's this honeypot.
36:27
And the reason that they were able to get away with the six
36:29
one O 2 order is because of the centralization of the custody of
36:33
gold, right. So that's one of the, like the,
36:36
you know, And then of course, like, look at the predicament
36:38
that the US government is currently in.
36:40
You know, they're clearly on an unsustainable fiscal path,
36:44
something that Jerome Powell even himself has admitted.
36:48
So, like, you know, you're looking at that.
36:51
You're like, I don't know. I don't know if you know I I
36:54
trust, you know BlackRock and Coinbase to to custody of my
37:00
Bitcoin. Like if you have faith in you
37:03
know in the political situation in the United States, then
37:06
perhaps. But I, I, you know my
37:09
generation, the millennial generation, we lived through the
37:11
2008 financial crisis right. They bailed out Wall Street.
37:15
They F Main Street. I I I just don't trust, you
37:18
know, the federal government. I don't trust the banks we all
37:21
lived through. That that period, right, you you
37:23
might have been a little bit more young and impressionable
37:26
when when that happened, but we all lived through it, right?
37:29
And I think, look, I, I, I don't think there's a risk, but but at
37:39
the same time, I can see other benefits to self custody, right?
37:44
I can see a benefit of, oh, let's just say I wanted to pack
37:48
up and move to Iceland, right. It's a lot easier to have the
37:53
Bitcoin just with you in a, you know, some wallet and go to
37:58
Iceland than it is to wire money in the bank to convert it to
38:04
dollars and then wire the money to an Icelandic bank and all the
38:08
rest, right. So there's a, there's a freedom
38:11
element and that's a that's a big deal.
38:16
That's probably not as much of a big deal for somebody living in
38:19
America as it is somebody living, say, in Nigeria, right.
38:24
If you're living in Nigeria, you absolutely do not trust the
38:27
banks, right? The bank will 100% like rip you
38:30
off. So I'm I'm in favor of self
38:37
custody. Most people can't figure it out,
38:41
and I'm not trying to, I'm not trying to argue that you
38:43
shouldn't get into self custody. I'm just saying it is going to
38:47
be a fact that most people will not self custody right now
38:50
because this is just a much easier way to go, right?
38:55
And so, you know, if you can do it, it's great.
39:00
Has all kinds of advantages. Has some disadvantages too.
39:03
You can lose your keys. You can screw up yourself.
39:06
Custody you can. You can be not very good at
39:10
opsec. You can get a key logger on your
39:13
system. You can get SIM swap.
39:14
You know, there's lots and lots and lots of reasons why.
39:18
If you're not too careful, it can actually be a negative.
39:21
So you know I'm not trying to knock it for the you know your
39:29
generation millennial bitcoiners but not everybody is a
39:35
millennial book bitcoiner. There's most people are they're
39:42
not going to go first of all they're not going to go 100%
39:44
Bitcoin, number one, right. They're going to be I want to
39:48
buy maybe 5% Bitcoin and if they're going to do 5% Bitcoin,
39:52
they're they probably don't want to learn.
39:54
They want to do all this stuff just for 5% of their portfolio.
39:58
It's just too much work. So, and that's just sort of the
40:02
reality of it and. And I think that because you're
40:06
so immersed in this, that's where you, that's where you have
40:09
this blind spot about these ETFs, right?
40:12
And that's why I think many Bitcoiners, many hardcore
40:19
Bitcoiners and the voices of Bitcoin, up until December of
40:23
last year, they were sort of saying like, these ETF's are
40:25
kind of not that great. Whatever.
40:28
Bah Bah Bah, poo poo. But you know it's it's a blind
40:33
swap. That's that's all I can tell
40:35
you. It's a blind and it's clearly a
40:36
blind swap because right now who's buying Bitcoin right now
40:40
these ETFs are buying about 80% of all the Bitcoin.
40:43
That's that's where the the buying is coming from.
40:45
It's 80% his ETFs. It's not nowhere else.
40:50
OK? That's the future.
40:52
That's the future. I mean whether you like it or
40:54
not, you know whether you choose to just to do self custody or
40:57
not, the bulk is buying through these ETFs that's where the it's
41:02
and I think it's going to be so much more going forward, I mean
41:07
the bulk. Of what they can get their hands
41:09
on right 'cause 11,000,000 Bitcoin are held already by
41:14
individuals. You know, the those the the ETFs
41:18
are going to have to convince those individuals to sell that
41:21
Bitcoin. They will like, I I don't know
41:25
about you, but I'm not telling, you know, I'm not like what am
41:30
I, what am I going to sell for? Like it's like sell Victoria,
41:33
sell this app. Something that has absolute
41:35
scarcity for something for for, for unlimited.
41:39
The the the keyword is not sell, it's spend, right?
41:43
So the. Keyword is this.
41:45
I mean, you probably most bit pointers that I know kind of
41:50
like you kind of amassed a stack by like being very careful and
41:53
getting it early and they're not big spenders right now, right?
41:58
But I guarantee you a Bitcoin 1,000,000, you're gonna start
42:00
spending, you know, everybody does, everybody makes money,
42:05
wants to spend the money, you know, because you can't take it
42:08
with you to the grave, right? I mean with technically.
42:10
OK, and I'm gonna be a kind of a pain in the ass here.
42:13
Technically, you totally can take your Bitcoin with the
42:15
grave. It's at the grave though.
42:18
Throw away. The seed.
42:21
That's what that's a sailor saying, right?
42:22
He's like, OK, I'm going to say, OK, great.
42:26
I don't know, I'm nitpicking. I'm nitpicking.
42:28
I'm nitpicking. Yeah, that's.
42:30
Sort of the ultimate stupidity, really.
42:32
It's sort of like you're living life really poor.
42:34
You're counting your score by how much Bitcoin you have and
42:38
then you die and you don't spend any of it.
42:41
Let's really stupid, like, you know, like life is not finite,
42:45
you know you're doing this to enjoy more of it later.
42:50
At some point later is now, right?
42:53
So you know, I, for example, I, you know, if I travel, I always
42:57
stay in five star hotels. I always travel first class, OK
43:02
Why? Because I have a lot of money.
43:03
I don't care. I'm in the enjoyment phase of my
43:07
money, right? Of course.
43:09
Of course. And you will.
43:11
Too. I mean, it's like every person
43:14
I've seen who's made multiple millions of dollars, it changes
43:19
your life, right? You buy a nice car, you buy a
43:21
new house, you start traveling. Well, that that's what you do,
43:26
right? And you're going to do the same
43:28
thing. And other bitcoins are going to
43:29
do the same thing and they will start spending more, right?
43:32
It's not like they're going to sell it and necessarily put it
43:36
in S and PS or put it in the dollar and the savings bond,
43:40
right? But they're going to start
43:42
enjoying life a little bit more, right?
43:44
And that's what I think is going to happen.
43:47
And you will see a spending by all these people, and it's going
43:52
to be very noticeable from a societal standpoint, is the
43:55
people with the really big houses and the flashy cars and
43:58
everything, they're all going to be bitcoiners, right?
44:02
So what's going to happen? I think it's OK.
44:06
I have no problem with it, right.
44:07
It's like if you go to Palo Alto, right?
44:11
OK, who who was buying all the houses in Palo Alto?
44:14
The guys were like they were part of the Facebook IPO, right?
44:18
Part of the Google IPO before that, right?
44:21
You know, So, you know here in LA, you've got a bunch of snap
44:26
millionaires, right? So you've got this new money
44:30
that comes in, that new money has kids, builds houses, does
44:36
all this stuff with the new money and kind of lives large at
44:39
some point now they can wait a little bit before living quite
44:43
large. But I get this idea of the
44:45
people living on the mattress forever.
44:47
I don't buy it this, you know, I've just seen enough people
44:52
make money and they people always want to spend money and
44:56
they. Yeah, they and they all do.
44:58
So I I mean, I I. I agree.
45:00
I think that there's an element like Look, if you want to build
45:03
wealth specifically at an early age, there's an element of
45:07
delaying gratification. But I think that once you get
45:11
to, you know, once you get to a without being.
45:15
Without being. Without.
45:16
Without. Without specifying any numbers.
45:19
Right. But once?
45:20
Yeah, 10 years. From now, Bitcoin's on a million
45:22
What do you do? What do I do specifically?
45:27
Yeah, I mean, I I keep any of your.
45:29
Your spending habits. Yeah, I.
45:31
Mean I you know I I'm, I'm very happy and I think that the I
45:36
think that I live you know I think the thing that makes the
45:40
the reason that I get up in the morning is is is I I enjoy
45:43
making content that's what I like to do.
45:47
But is it gonna change my spending habits?
45:50
I mean. Is it gonna change?
45:55
You know what, what I value more than than than actual wealth,
45:58
wealth I I would say is, is cash flow.
46:01
I think cash flow is king. I think you know net worth in
46:06
terms of it's just extremely painful.
46:09
It's very painful to spend Bitcoin that you know, you know,
46:13
coming from a guy, you know that.
46:15
OK, look, I bought Bitcoin at 500, bitcoins at $66,228.00.
46:22
It's very painful for me to spend Bitcoin because of exactly
46:26
the reason that you just said. I know for a fact this thing is
46:30
gonna hit $1,000,000, right? So a million.
46:33
Dollars, you're gonna start. You're gonna start feeling a
46:36
little less painful. Yeah.
46:38
I mean of. I mean, you know, you, you, you,
46:40
you splurge a little bit here and there.
46:42
I guess you could say for sure, right?
46:44
But you know, I I I'm, I'm a I'm a bit of a hoarder.
46:47
I'm not gonna lie. I'm a bit of a hoarder.
46:50
I I I I don't like spending my Bears people.
46:52
Look, even Warren Buffett like you lived in I, I.
46:55
I hope my wife does not listen to this podcast I'm telling.
46:59
Her OK, this is Niko. This is Niko.
47:03
You need to, like, get a plan together, right?
47:07
To start spending Nico's money, OK?
47:09
You need to start planning. It misses Nico because he's
47:13
going to be a very rich, young Miamian, right?
47:17
You're going to be a very rich. You know you're going to be
47:19
right up there with Pitbull, right?
47:20
Oh my God. You're going to be, you know.
47:23
Mr. What did he call it? Four O 5 till I die or whatever
47:27
that thing was. You know three O 5.
47:29
Till I die, Yeah. OK.
47:31
Right. So, you know, but look, your
47:33
generation are going to be very rich.
47:37
You really are. You're going to be very well off
47:39
relative to the average dude in Miami.
47:42
You didn't buy Bitcoin. I mean, just think about it,
47:45
right? You take you, you, For whatever
47:50
reason, you lucked into Bitcoin. OK, for whatever, it's pure
47:54
luck. I think it's like, why did I get
47:56
involved in luck? You know, I got, I got orange
48:00
peeled randomly by this guy, Tom Lee, right.
48:03
I think if if I hadn't taken that trip, you know this I went
48:08
to the Bermuda on this sort of crypto boondoggle to open a bank
48:13
right in Bermuda. And they invited me out and I,
48:17
you know, listened to Tom Lee and talked for three days and I
48:20
was just like, wow, yeah, I need to get serious with this
48:23
Bitcoin. But had I not done that, I don't
48:26
think I would have been orange peel.
48:28
If so, I don't know what orange peel do you and maybe it's a
48:32
show like this, that Lawrence pill you, you know, it doesn't
48:35
have to be in person. It can just be something that
48:37
clicks. But, but I do think that you
48:42
know you're probably going to end up becoming quite more,
48:46
quite a lot more wealthy than most of the people you know who
48:49
didn't who didn't buy Bitcoin. It's that simple, right?
48:54
It's sort of like taking that early job at Facebook or Google,
48:57
you know? Yeah, I I I.
48:59
You know it's it's it's it's it's definitely I it it's you
49:07
know I I think bit corners have a very humble kind of way of of
49:13
of looking at this and I think you know it's it's a it's a
49:17
topic that our community is just not used to kind of exploring.
49:22
But you know, for the sake of this conversation, I, I, I, I do
49:26
believe that bit corners in the next 10 years are going to be
49:31
the one of the wealthiest groups of people on the face of the
49:36
planet. I mean, if you break down the
49:37
numbers right, 50 to 60 million millionaires all around the
49:41
world, 21 million Bitcoin. If you have one Bitcoin, right?
49:46
You know, it's 66 K right now. If you have one Bitcoin.
49:50
Yeah. I I truly believe you're gonna
49:51
be in a in a an elite group of people that have the privilege
49:57
to be able to own just one. I really believe that.
50:02
So I, I, I I agree with your statement and you know in terms
50:07
of the the the wealth aspect. Yeah I think you know I think
50:12
it's very it's personality driven and you know I think it
50:15
kind of it it you know the really the way that what is it
50:19
that you want out of life. Like you know my wife could
50:22
probably have a different answer but I I love making content you
50:26
know I'm a I'm a pretty simple guy I've you know I've I've
50:30
travelled the I've been very privileged to travel the world
50:33
in in in my youth because of my parents and you know I, I, I, I
50:37
I know what I like to do right. Which is make content.
50:42
So as long as I'm making content and, you know, healthy, then
50:46
that's what makes me happy, right?
50:47
Well, the Bitcoin. Community is kind of, it's a
50:49
it's a really interesting group of people, right?
50:52
I mean, everything about Bitcoin is interesting, I think because
50:56
it's such an unusual thing, right?
51:00
The fact that that we have this piece of code, which was only
51:02
3000 lines of code at the at the origin, right, And that 3000
51:07
lines of code turned into this new monetary system without any
51:12
CEO, it's it's insane, right? It's just an insane thing.
51:17
So I do think it's, you know, it.
51:19
It really is one of the most interest, the most interesting
51:23
thing I've seen, you know, from a new technology perspective,
51:28
including the Internet, right. You know, and I, I remember very
51:32
much the world before the Internet and after the Internet,
51:35
right. The Internet was pretty much
51:37
already baked and done by the time you were like in diapers,
51:42
right? But, But, you know, but you
51:45
know, there are people like me who remember the world before an
51:49
Internet, and we remember also the world before cell phones,
51:52
right? And so if I had to, if I had to
51:55
kind of handicap these things, I would say Bitcoin will make a
51:58
more of a difference. It'll make more of a difference
52:01
than both cell phones and the Internet.
52:05
And I think those are the two big kind of, you know, tech
52:11
innovations really that I've seen, you know over the the that
52:15
have been present over the last 50 years, right.
52:18
And this, this is going to be the biggest, this will be the
52:20
biggest and because really we've reinvented money, right.
52:25
And it's it is there are some great side corollaries to that
52:33
because you know it's like you can hold your own money and you
52:37
don't have to you know the government just can't take your
52:41
money if you self custody it. Right.
52:44
Not only the US government but what from whatever country
52:47
you're in. Right.
52:48
So those are really good things right.
52:49
And I think and that's why I think why why Bitcoin was
52:53
invented for that purpose. Right.
52:55
But I think the you know the side aspect of this which is
53:01
number go up people get rich. You know, I I'm from Wall
53:05
Street, so I have no problem saying that's that's why I'm in
53:09
Bitcoin. You know, personally I don't.
53:12
I'm not here to you know make Nigeria better off.
53:17
I not that I don't care about Nigeria but it's just I I've
53:21
ever been to Nigeria. It's not on my mind.
53:23
I don't, you know, I don't know, I don't.
53:26
I'm not here to make the world a better place.
53:29
But I do think Bitcoin net net is a positive for the world.
53:33
But I think it's an incredible positive if you get in there
53:36
early, which is why it works, right.
53:39
So I think it's, you know it at the end of the day, you know
53:44
I'll, I'll be a little politically incorrect and say,
53:47
yeah, I'm interested in number go up.
53:49
I don't think that's. Politically correct at all.
53:51
I think that's like if we're being honest, I think that's the
53:54
vast majority you know the the the same.
53:56
I'm just. Trying to be to tell it like it
54:00
is, right. And you know, some people, some
54:03
people have said, oh, Fred's only interested in number go up.
54:07
And I'm like, yeah, just be. Honest guys.
54:10
And just. I just want to be honest.
54:12
Yeah, I mean, I. Think I think everyone's
54:14
interested I don't think. I don't think this would work
54:16
unless number go up. I think number go up is the
54:19
thing right? Like like you know I think it's
54:22
Taylor said. I've said this many times too
54:23
Bitcoin is binary. If this thing does not go up you
54:27
know it it dies. Like it either goes up forever
54:30
or it dies like that's that's maybe it's a simplistic way of a
54:34
fish. Can't swim.
54:35
If a fish doesn't swim, it dies, right?
54:38
Yeah. If Bitcoin doesn't go up, it
54:40
dies. Yeah, I mean.
54:43
I I I like. I agree.
54:45
I and you know I I came for. You know.
54:49
The personally, right, you know, I was 23 years old, 24 and you
54:54
know I was very kind of low point in my life and I saw
54:56
Bitcoin as you know, an opportunity.
54:59
I came for the money and then I ended up staying for the
55:01
revolution cause go down the rabbit hole and you know kind of
55:04
changes you. But again, right from my, let's
55:07
say, my parents perspective or my parents in law, I never
55:11
forget I I I was pitching it. It wasn't my parents when I was
55:15
now my parents are like fully orange peel.
55:17
But I was. I was pitching one of my
55:19
parents, one of, I think it was my mom.
55:22
Coming in the comments, number go up is the gateway drug, yeah,
55:26
there. You go, so that's exactly. 100%
55:29
I agree with that. I don't know but but.
55:31
But what they said was really interesting because they said
55:33
and it was one of my my mom's clients or something like that,
55:37
and and I was like pitching them and I was like whatever.
55:39
And he looks at me dead in the eye.
55:40
He's like Nico, I'm not interested in the revolution.
55:44
I'm. I'm.
55:45
Interested in the investment, You know, as an older, an older
55:48
gentleman made his fortune, already made his money, you
55:51
know, not really, not, doesn't really care.
55:53
And then this kind of all circles back to the very
55:56
beginning of the conversation, which is the ETFs, right?
55:59
And the case that you're making is that the ETFs are the
56:02
mechanism of which, you know, the older generation, which
56:06
happens to have the lion's share of the world's wealth, is gonna
56:09
finally get exposure to the best asset class that has ever
56:12
existed in the history of mankind.
56:15
They're going to get exposure. They're not necessarily going to
56:18
go all in. They're just going to take a
56:20
little exposure. They're going to get a little
56:22
slice of it right. So they're not going to get,
56:26
they're not going to benefit as much as you have, right?
56:29
Or you got your Bitcoin super cheap, OK?
56:33
And but they're going to get, they're going to get exposure.
56:38
They're going to, they're going to get benefit.
56:40
And moreover, they're going to, they're going to be on the bit,
56:43
the pro Bitcoin platform, right. So if you know, they tried to do
56:48
61-O twos, right, if we get 10 million people who own Bitcoin
56:53
in America, they're not going to be a six one O 2.
56:56
They won't, right. Because Fred's going to 100%
57:02
going to sell. No, but you know what I'm
57:09
saying? Like the the the you need to get
57:14
a a fair amount of people who are are on Team Bitcoin and the
57:18
best way to do that is to get people through the ETF because
57:22
they're going to be on Team Bitcoin, they're going to want
57:24
Bitcoin to to work, yeah. Yeah, I agree.
57:28
I agree. Anyways, we are getting to the
57:31
top of the hour, Fred. I I really enjoyed this
57:34
conversation. Really took a different turn and
57:38
and I I love when the conversations take a different
57:41
turn. You know, love what you're, you
57:44
know, tweeting out, what you're contributing to the community.
57:46
It seems like the community's liking it as well.
57:48
If you had any last message to our audience, what would it be?
57:54
Listen, I I think the one thing I would say is we're probably on
58:01
a gonna be on a very big roll for the next couple of years.
58:04
So I would sort of say just chill right now.
58:08
Don't try to be too cute. You know the one thing you don't
58:11
want to do right now is to try to sell and buy again, because I
58:16
think that's going to be just a disaster.
58:19
I think, you know, I huddling is by far the best strategy.
58:24
You should just hold on. But the worst possible thing you
58:28
could do would be to try to sell with the idea of buying it back
58:31
cheaper. Do not even.
58:33
Don't even think about doing that.
58:35
You know when, when, when the time's right for you to sell
58:39
part of your staff to spend part of your staff, do it.
58:43
But don't, don't try to time the market because you're going to
58:46
fail. And I listen, I was a pro
58:48
trader. I can't, I can't time Bitcoin.
58:51
I have no idea short term what Bitcoin's going to do.
58:53
Zero. I mean, I think it's going to go
58:56
up. But, you know, did I think it
58:58
was going to go down at 10% at one point yesterday?
59:01
No. You know what I mean?
59:02
I I don't know. Nobody can predict Bitcoin.
59:05
It has a mind of its own, so don't try to trade it and just
59:12
hold it. Get a good position and just
59:16
amuse yourself with Bitcoin, Twitter and whatever else and
59:19
models or whatever else just keeps the keeps you happy.
59:23
Play video games, do whatever you want with your time, but do
59:26
not sell. But that's what I would say.
59:30
I hope that helps no it. It it 100 million percent helps,
59:34
right? You know, stay humble, stack
59:36
Sats, huddle, don't try to trade.
59:40
And that's how you went. Anyways, Fred, thank you so much
59:43
for coming on the show. Really, really appreciate it and
59:48
thank you and hope to have you back on in a couple months or
59:50
so. Appreciate it.
59:52
See where we? Are in 3-4 months.
59:53
See ya. Sounds good.
59:55
All right guys, I hope you enjoyed this episode of Simply
59:58
Bitcoin IRL with our guest Fred Krueger.
1:00:01
We'll be back tomorrow with the live show at 12:15 PM Eastern
1:00:06
Standard Time for another episode of Whoa, I Just hit my
1:00:10
mic of Simply Bitcoin Live. Peace out, everybody.
1:00:14
Today's episode was brought to you by bitcoinwell.com, a
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