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BOY, 7, DISAPPEARS FROM SCHOOL SCIENCE FAIR: WHERE'S KYRON? · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:00
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, live rural Oregon. Stepmommy walks
0:09
Speaker 1: her seven year old down the hall of his elementary school.
0:13
Speaker 2: He's never seen again.
0:16
Speaker 1: Police now insisting step Mommy take a second polygraph, and
0:20
Speaker 1: in a bizarre twist, we learned Stepmommy sending X rated
0:24
Speaker 1: photos to a lover just days after Kiren disappears. Despite
0:31
Speaker 1: all of this, still no sign of seven year old
0:35
Speaker 1: Tyrone Horman. Good evening, I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories.
0:40
Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us.
0:42
Speaker 3: Which started as another school morning soon turn into a
0:46
Speaker 3: nightmare for parents of seven year old Kyrone Horman, who
0:50
Speaker 3: unexplicably vanished from a school science fair, a suspicious drive,
0:55
Speaker 3: an alleged accomplice, and a murder for higher plot, Where
0:59
Speaker 3: is little old Kyn Horman.
1:02
Speaker 1: This is a question that has gone through our minds
1:04
Speaker 1: and hearts over and over and over. Joining me an
1:08
Speaker 1: all star panel to make sense of what we are
1:10
Speaker 1: learning about Kyn's disappearance.
1:13
Speaker 2: But first I.
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Speaker 1: Want to go to a very special guest. Kywen's father
1:18
Speaker 1: is joining us, Cain Horman Kane. Thank you for being
1:22
Speaker 1: with us.
1:22
Speaker 4: Hi, thanks for having me Kine.
1:24
Speaker 1: I know you have been asked this before, specifically my
1:28
Speaker 1: police and many many other law enforcement But could you
1:32
Speaker 1: go back to the day that you when you learn
1:37
Speaker 1: Kyen has disappeared? Just seven years old at the time.
1:41
Speaker 4: Yeah, I was at work that day and came home
1:47
Speaker 4: after I was in the office and went to walk
1:53
Speaker 4: down to the bus stop that's down our driveway and
1:58
Speaker 4: went down to meet him when gets off the bus,
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Speaker 4: something we do pretty much on every day. And the
2:05
Speaker 4: bus came down and the door opened, and the bus
2:08
Speaker 4: driver looked at us a little bit puzzled and had
2:12
Speaker 4: mentioned that he was not on the bus, and that
2:14
Speaker 4: came as a shock, and we talked to her for
2:19
Speaker 4: a few minutes, at which time we ran back up
2:22
Speaker 4: to the house and got in the car and went
2:24
Speaker 4: up to the school to try to find out what
2:27
Speaker 4: was happening while we were making phone calls on the way.
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Speaker 4: So it was a very shocking situation at that point
2:33
Speaker 4: in time. And then went to the school, talked to
2:37
Speaker 4: the teachers and faculty up there, placed the call the
2:41
Speaker 4: nine one one, and that's when the Sheriff's office got
2:43
Speaker 4: involved and just kind of evolved from there.
2:45
Speaker 1: I'm just thinking about that trip, that frantic drive that
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Speaker 1: you made to the school, Kay, I'm projecting.
2:54
Speaker 2: I remember I was in New York and I had just.
2:58
Speaker 1: Gotten the children made in their pajamas and called home
3:03
Speaker 1: and found out my dad was on life support.
3:07
Speaker 2: Within about fifteen.
3:08
Speaker 1: Minutes, we we're out on the street, trying to hail
3:10
Speaker 1: a cab to hopefully get a flight home, that trek,
3:17
Speaker 1: trying to get home, trying to get somewhere to get
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Speaker 1: to my dad. Will you describe those moments where you
3:30
Speaker 1: are frantically on the phone, You're driving, You're trying to
3:35
Speaker 1: get your facts together and find out everything you can.
3:38
Speaker 1: What was going through your mind? What happened on that
3:41
Speaker 1: trip back to the school.
3:43
Speaker 4: Well, it was just a very I don't know that
3:46
Speaker 4: I have a good description of it, very visceral panic. Nothing.
3:51
Speaker 4: I mean, sure panic the one thing or one of
3:54
Speaker 4: you know, one of the top things I think most
3:56
Speaker 4: parents fear is their children going missing. You want to
4:01
Speaker 4: protect them, you want to be able to know where
4:04
Speaker 4: they are at all times. And I was just panicked.
4:08
Speaker 4: It was just terror. I don't remember much else. I
4:12
Speaker 4: remember just I think what I've learned since then about
4:16
Speaker 4: trauma response, I think that it was in just full
4:18
Speaker 4: trauma mode at that point in time. You know, everything
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Speaker 4: just looked different, the scenery looked different. On the drive up,
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Speaker 4: there just everything racing through my mind of you know,
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Speaker 4: all the different scenarios that could play out. But it
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Speaker 4: was honestly, it was terror. I couldn't even really explain
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Speaker 4: the thoughts at that point. It was sheer panic.
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Speaker 2: You know.
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Speaker 1: Another thing Caine Hormon guys joining us is Kyen's dad Kane.
4:44
Speaker 1: Many people would say it's not their fault, they just
4:49
Speaker 1: haven't lived through it. Well, it's no big deal that
4:52
Speaker 1: he's not on the bus, because what if he stayed
4:54
Speaker 1: on the playground and was playing in the bus left
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Speaker 1: without him.
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Speaker 2: What if he stayed in one of the rooms and
4:59
Speaker 2: was doing stre assignment.
5:01
Speaker 1: There's something called routine evidence, evidence of routine. Every day
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Speaker 1: I pick up my children at a certain spot at school.
5:12
Speaker 1: If they're not there, there's a problem. It would be
5:16
Speaker 1: for instance, if everybody got together and came here and
5:20
Speaker 1: it's time to get hooked up to you and know, Nancy,
5:23
Speaker 1: that has never happened. It means something. It's significant. How
5:29
Speaker 1: did you know here and here in your head and
5:33
Speaker 1: your heart when he did not get off that bus,
5:36
Speaker 1: when those doors swung open. How did you know instinctively
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Speaker 1: something was very wrong? It wasn't just playing on the
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Speaker 1: playground or staying in a classroom.
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Speaker 4: Yeah, that's exactly how you describe it. The button the
5:48
Speaker 4: bus comes, he gets off. Every day, there's y'all want
5:52
Speaker 4: to discussion around, you know, whether or not he was
5:55
Speaker 4: at school still or you know, other things, and he
5:59
Speaker 4: just very routine, Like you said, I don't know that
6:05
Speaker 4: we had a situation where he ever missed the bus
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Speaker 4: up until then, and I'll recall him, you know, being
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Speaker 4: on the playground or in the classroom without us knowing
6:13
Speaker 4: about it. And I think that's the main thing is usually,
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Speaker 4: I think in a lot of those circumstances, if there's
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Speaker 4: something after school, you usually notified, and the school's usually
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Speaker 4: really good about doing that. So it was just an
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Speaker 4: immediate response that something's definitely off, because we either would
6:29
Speaker 4: have heard or he'd be stepping off those bus steps
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Speaker 4: right now. So exactly what you described, it was pretty
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Speaker 4: much like clockwork every day, and that was just the
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Speaker 4: one day that it wasn't.
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Speaker 2: Okay, Well you got to the school. What happened when
6:42
Speaker 2: you got there?
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Speaker 4: I remember trying to locate teachers. The three of us
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Speaker 4: were up there, so we were trying to locate and
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Speaker 4: ask questions about, you know, where he was at, if
6:56
Speaker 4: he was still there, kind of the things that we
6:57
Speaker 4: just talked about, just getting a rundown. And they had
7:02
Speaker 4: indicated that he was not there that day, that he
7:05
Speaker 4: had been absent from school from the basically the beginning
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Speaker 4: of the day, which then was an additional shocks.
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Speaker 1: Oh my stars, that just makes my stomach hurt.
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Speaker 2: Your whole day, you're going about your.
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Speaker 1: Business, you're working, you're this, you're that, You're making calls,
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Speaker 1: you're sending emails the whole time. You think he's fine
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Speaker 1: at school, and he was not there.
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Speaker 2: He was not checked in.
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Speaker 1: Right when you say the three of you, I can
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Speaker 1: just imagine getting to the school is still.
7:34
Speaker 2: Kind of drop off pick up.
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Speaker 1: Everything's going crazy and you rushing in probably to the office,
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Speaker 1: going where's Ky and where is he?
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Speaker 2: Where is he? I can't find anything.
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Speaker 1: Off the bus, and then you learn he wasn't checked
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Speaker 1: in even to his very first class.
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Speaker 2: You said, the three of you, who is with you?
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Speaker 4: His stepmom and my daughter.
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Speaker 1: Okay, let me think this through. You get to the
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Speaker 1: school and who was it that told you he was
8:00
Speaker 1: never even here.
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Speaker 4: Yeah, honestly, I don't remember. I know we had started
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Speaker 4: talking to somebody, and then more people kind of gathered
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Speaker 4: around in the conversation that I don't recall who we
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Speaker 4: talked to first.
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Speaker 1: Honestly, just seven years old at the time he goes missing.
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Speaker 1: Everybody thinks he is at school that day, but he's not.
8:23
Speaker 2: What happened that.
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Speaker 5: Morning, Skyline Elementary School in northwest Portland, Oregon is having
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Speaker 5: their annual science fair, so the school is opened about
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Speaker 5: thirty minutes earlier than normal to allow for parents and
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Speaker 5: students to see the different projects created by the students.
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Speaker 5: Arriving at Skyline just after eight am, Kyrine Horman and
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Speaker 5: his stepmother, Terry Horman, go to his classroom to drop
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Speaker 5: off his coat and backpack. Kyrone then chose his stepmother
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Speaker 5: his exhibit called the Red eyed tree Frog.
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Speaker 1: So Kyin Horman at school, an at Nuwell joining us
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Speaker 1: k XL News host of speaking freely with an at
8:57
Speaker 1: newel and net thank you for being with us. But
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Speaker 1: there's no question he was at school for this pre
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Speaker 1: school science fair. Now interesting, A lot of times we
9:09
Speaker 1: don't have that distinction. This was all happening before first period,
9:14
Speaker 1: before he goes into his homeroom. Teacher, was this science fair? Explain?
9:19
Speaker 6: Yeah, that was an event in which there were a
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Speaker 6: lot of people who came from throughout the community, and
9:24
Speaker 6: there wasn't a lot of what you would say supervision.
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Speaker 6: There were people coming in and out because there was
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Speaker 6: a science fair, and the adults who were coming in
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Speaker 6: weren't really being monitored very much.
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Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace came Horman with me Kirne's dad.
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Speaker 1: So that was kind of a big morning for him
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Speaker 1: taking in the big science project.
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Speaker 2: I know when we have that with our twins, it's
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Speaker 2: a big ordeal.
10:00
Speaker 1: Try to get everything there, don't leave anything behind, don't
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Speaker 1: crush it or hurt it on the way to school.
10:07
Speaker 1: How was that morning before he left for school? Was
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Speaker 1: anything at all unusual? No, not from my perspective.
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Speaker 4: We had talked that morning before he went up to
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Speaker 4: the school, before I went to work, We talked outside.
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Speaker 4: He came out with me to the car before I
10:24
Speaker 4: got in and left. I told him that I loved
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Speaker 4: him to have a wonderful day at the exposition and
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Speaker 4: that I would see him after work, and we talk
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Speaker 4: all about it, so it was just another pretty much
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Speaker 4: normal day.
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Speaker 1: What more do we know about what happened at the
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Speaker 1: school that morning?
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Speaker 2: Listen?
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Speaker 7: Terry Horman has raised Karen since he was an infant,
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Speaker 7: and she takes a picture of Karen standing in front
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Speaker 7: of his project, posting the photo on Facebook. The two
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Speaker 7: walk around the classes looking at other students' projects and
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Speaker 7: see many other parents and children who have arrived early
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Speaker 7: for the science fair. Terry Hormon volunteers her time helping
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Speaker 7: Karen's teacher, Christina Porter, and Porter sees Kiren and Terry
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Speaker 7: Mormon in Kiren's classroom that morning, and another teacher SE's
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Speaker 7: Karen and Terry in another classroom before the eight forty
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Speaker 7: five am school bell rings.
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Speaker 1: Caine Horman explain to me your understanding of what happened
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Speaker 1: that morning at the science Expo and how many times
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Speaker 1: he was signed.
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Speaker 2: I mean, I see the picture, I know.
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Speaker 1: He was there, but now I'm hearing he was in
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Speaker 1: another classroom.
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Speaker 2: What's your understanding of his movements that morning?
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Speaker 4: Yeah, So based on what I understand, again, this is
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Speaker 4: what I remember being told that they arrived at the school,
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Speaker 4: that they went to the classroom where his project was
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Speaker 4: on display. That's the photo that we've all seen already
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Speaker 4: with him standing in front. I did see that photo
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Speaker 4: later that day on our camera as well. There was
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Speaker 4: a couple other pictures of other things in the room,
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Speaker 4: from what I remember, So they did look at some
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Speaker 4: other projects in the room again from what I recall,
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Speaker 4: and then there was a description of them walking to
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Speaker 4: other classrooms and looking at other projects in those rooms.
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Speaker 4: I don't remember. I don't recall which teacher it was
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Speaker 4: that they went into. I think they went in the
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Speaker 4: multiple rooms from what I remember and what I was told.
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Speaker 4: And then then there was a discussion about them parting
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Speaker 4: ways up in the hall by the office, and he
12:28
Speaker 4: supposedly walked down the hall back towards his classroom and
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Speaker 4: she left the building again according to what I was told.
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Speaker 4: I don't know for a fact what happened, but that
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Speaker 4: that's what I remember as the kind of the described
12:40
Speaker 4: overview of what happened there. And again I did see
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Speaker 4: photos of the classroom in a few others, but that's
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Speaker 4: what I remember.
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Speaker 1: Okay, I'm understanding something really For the first time, this
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Speaker 1: expo wasn't in one big room like the gymnasium or
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Speaker 1: the auditorium. This was it was a different class classrooms.
13:01
Speaker 1: So you would walk from classroom to classroom looking at
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Speaker 1: various other projects, you know, sizing up yours compared to them.
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Speaker 1: Did anybody have a really great idea or really bad idea?
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Speaker 1: You could talk about it at the supper table that night.
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Speaker 1: So they Kyra specifically and the stepmom are going from
13:23
Speaker 1: room to room looking at the projects. Is that correct?
13:27
Speaker 4: Yeah, from my understanding, that's correct.
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Speaker 2: Yes, Okay.
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Speaker 1: I find that very significant because it's not a group
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Speaker 1: of people in one gymnasium, one gym with all the
13:40
Speaker 1: projects and fifty people, one hundred people seeing Kiren. He's
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Speaker 1: walking from room to room.
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Speaker 2: In and out. Everybody's milling around looking.
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Speaker 1: Parents are there from all over looking at their children's
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Speaker 1: science projects. It's easy to get lost in the shuffle.
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Speaker 1: It's you know, you might as Zobe walking through Grand
14:03
Speaker 1: Central Station. There's a million kids running around. There's parents
14:07
Speaker 1: that don't really know each other, who knows what happened?
14:12
Speaker 1: Who could really get a good grip on the last
14:16
Speaker 1: time Tyron is sane.
14:19
Speaker 2: It's not like he disappeared off the bus. He was there.
14:22
Speaker 2: He was there. Guys, what more do we know about
14:26
Speaker 2: that morning.
14:27
Speaker 5: Listen, as Terry Horman leaves the school, she sees Kyron
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Speaker 5: walking down a hallway toward his classroom inside Skyline Elementary.
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Speaker 5: Kyne has already placed his book bag and coat in
14:36
Speaker 5: Miss Porter's classroom when he first arrived for the science fair.
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Speaker 5: Miss Porter starts her class like every day. Then the
14:43
Speaker 5: children moved to reading group, then recess, than lunch. Around
14:46
Speaker 5: three pm, the children, tired from a busy day, get
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Speaker 5: on the bus to go home. Terry Hormon and her
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Speaker 5: stepson Kyrone Horman arrived at the school science fair the
14:55
Speaker 5: morning of June fourth, twenty ten. Stepmom claims she saw
14:59
Speaker 5: Kyrone walk to a classroom, but teachers mark him absent,
15:02
Speaker 5: alleging the little boy never meet it to class. Police
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Speaker 5: commence an exhaustive search around a two mile radius of
15:07
Speaker 5: the school that includes a remote island along the Columbia River.
15:11
Speaker 2: Where is Kyene?
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Speaker 1: You think when you take a child to school everything
15:16
Speaker 1: is safe and sound.
15:17
Speaker 2: Not in this case.
15:20
Speaker 1: Joining me an all star panel, but straight back to
15:22
Speaker 1: Kyn's father, Caine Horman, joining us, Cain, what did Stepmom
15:28
Speaker 1: Terry tell you about what happened?
15:31
Speaker 4: Yeah, so it was we talked about the going to
15:35
Speaker 4: the room at the school, doing the photos, walking around
15:38
Speaker 4: the different rooms. I actually do recall, after thinking about
15:44
Speaker 4: it a little bit more. I think it was this
15:45
Speaker 4: first grade teacher that they saw in his room. And
15:48
Speaker 4: one of the interesting things about the schools, there is
15:51
Speaker 4: an upstairs and a downstairs with classrooms, which I guess
15:55
Speaker 4: I didn't mention before. So she had talked about starting
15:58
Speaker 4: in the upstairs rooms to ring the science projects in
16:01
Speaker 4: those rooms, then going downstairs and viewing the projects there
16:04
Speaker 4: and then And it's been a while, my memory may
16:09
Speaker 4: not be what it used to be, but for some
16:12
Speaker 4: reason I remember her talking about them separating and meeting
16:15
Speaker 4: because there's different stairwells to go back up to the
16:17
Speaker 4: upper level. Where they went back up to the upper
16:20
Speaker 4: level and met near the office, and that's where they parted,
16:23
Speaker 4: and she saw or talked about him walking down the
16:27
Speaker 4: hallway back to his class I don't recall her saying
16:30
Speaker 4: she saw him doing that, but they met there and
16:33
Speaker 4: then separated. At that point in the school, it's kind
16:36
Speaker 4: of a central the office is kind of a central
16:38
Speaker 4: spot in the upstairs. And then she went and did
16:43
Speaker 4: some of her daily things that she had on her
16:46
Speaker 4: list from the school. So that was the last time
16:48
Speaker 4: that she had said that she had saw him, was
16:52
Speaker 4: in that central meeting place by the.
16:53
Speaker 2: Office, and as the teacher to him, you're referring.
16:56
Speaker 4: The teacher the names escaping me at the moment, I apologize.
17:00
Speaker 2: That's okay.
17:01
Speaker 1: I just want to make sure you're talking about the
17:02
Speaker 1: teacher says she saw him in that central area and
17:05
Speaker 1: she took.
17:06
Speaker 2: Off to go do all her duties. Right.
17:08
Speaker 4: No, I don't recall a teacher saying that that's what
17:10
Speaker 4: I was told by his stepmom is that they had
17:14
Speaker 4: they met up there and separated there.
17:16
Speaker 1: Gotcha, now, I understand Also to a net mule joining
17:20
Speaker 1: us kate x L news that at least one person
17:26
Speaker 1: saw stepmother Terry leaving the building. How do we know
17:33
Speaker 1: what time she left? Did she leave alone? Who is
17:36
Speaker 1: confirming that?
17:38
Speaker 6: Actually that information came from the mother of Kirene. She
17:41
Speaker 6: said that there were several witnesses who have told her
17:45
Speaker 6: that they did witness him leaving in a truck with
17:49
Speaker 6: the stepmother. So that's that's basically where that information came from.
17:54
Speaker 2: Speaking of Kyn's mother, Desiree.
17:58
Speaker 8: Listen, the investigation continue used to be on track and
18:01
Speaker 8: is progressing toward finding Kyne. We remain confident in the
18:06
Speaker 8: actions and constant commitment of law enforcement in the mission
18:10
Speaker 8: to find our son.
18:12
Speaker 2: We love you, Kiren.
18:14
Speaker 5: Never give up, Pope.
18:16
Speaker 8: We are all coming to get you, to bring you home.
18:19
Speaker 1: Back to Caine Horman Cain, did Terry ever mentioned to
18:26
Speaker 1: you leaving the school with Kirene.
18:30
Speaker 4: No, not in any conversation that we had.
18:31
Speaker 1: What do you know about potential witnesses that say they
18:34
Speaker 1: observed her leaving with him?
18:36
Speaker 4: Personally, I have no first hand account of anybody having
18:43
Speaker 4: seen him in the parking lot, or her or them
18:46
Speaker 4: leaving together. I've heard a lot of second hand information
18:51
Speaker 4: that there's a number of different accounts. There's accounts of
18:56
Speaker 4: people seeing all three of them leaving because my was
19:00
Speaker 4: with her as well. There's accounts of seeing him by
19:05
Speaker 4: himself in the parking lot and getting into vehicles. I've
19:07
Speaker 4: heard different kinds of vehicles, not just a truck. And
19:10
Speaker 4: I've heard, you know, other other accounts of people witnessing
19:15
Speaker 4: her leaving the school by herself. I don't. I haven't
19:20
Speaker 4: heard any directly, so that's it's all second hand information.
19:24
Speaker 4: I apologize, but I don't have any firsthand witness accounts
19:27
Speaker 4: that have been dictated to me personally in that instance,
19:31
Speaker 4: but it's been a little bit of everything, to.
19:32
Speaker 1: Be honest, Nor do I in fact me reports state
19:38
Speaker 1: the step mom leaves without him, that she's observed leaving
19:42
Speaker 1: without him. How many times I can I ask you, Kane,
19:48
Speaker 1: did you go over it and over it and over
19:51
Speaker 1: it with stepmom Terry?
19:53
Speaker 4: Many many times exhaustively. There was a lot of discussion
19:59
Speaker 4: that was occurring post the interaction with the folks at
20:05
Speaker 4: the school and then with law enforcement, and it was
20:08
Speaker 4: pretty much a daily thing trying to walk through, you know,
20:11
Speaker 4: who they saw, recount the steps, making sure that One
20:18
Speaker 4: of my biggest concerns was, you know, did they actually
20:20
Speaker 4: meet up in part ways at the office. Didn't really
20:24
Speaker 4: ever get firsthand information that confirmed their party at that location.
20:29
Speaker 4: So there was just a lot of conversation about trying
20:31
Speaker 4: to understand exactly what happened, where it happened, how it happened,
20:37
Speaker 4: and then including after as well. So there was a lot.
20:42
Speaker 9: Kirn, who was seven years old, disappeared from Skyline Elementary
20:46
Speaker 9: School in northwest Portland from.
20:48
Speaker 10: Day one, the Molnoma County Sheriff's Office has worked in
20:51
Speaker 10: close partnership with the Molnoma County District Attorney's Office, the FBI,
20:56
Speaker 10: and other agencies to find Kyron.
20:58
Speaker 9: As parents, we can't imagine the pain and struggle Kyen's
21:01
Speaker 9: family has experienced and continues to experience without him.
21:05
Speaker 10: And that's why we have never given up or slowed
21:08
Speaker 10: down in trying to find Kyron.
21:11
Speaker 2: And neither have we. The truth is out there.
21:15
Speaker 1: Someone knows what happened to Kyrien Horman, and I am
21:19
Speaker 1: telling you right now. Guys with me is Kyen's father,
21:23
Speaker 1: Kin Jarrett Farantino joining us, renowned former prosecutor, host of
21:29
Speaker 1: True Crime, Boss Jared, thank you for being with us.
21:33
Speaker 1: It seems to me that we understand the timeline very well.
21:37
Speaker 2: Cain has filled it out for us.
21:40
Speaker 1: I understand everything up until the point the stepmother leaves.
21:47
Speaker 1: That's when things begin to get mrquis agree or disagree?
21:54
Speaker 4: I agree one percent.
21:56
Speaker 11: It's not clear whether or not Kyeren left the build
22:00
Speaker 11: bilding with her, although Terry, the stepmom, claims she left.
22:04
Speaker 11: I run at school, heading toward his classroom, and she
22:07
Speaker 11: left with their little girl.
22:10
Speaker 4: That is the golden moment.
22:13
Speaker 11: This case really began Nancy, and there's some discrepancy in
22:16
Speaker 11: Terry's story and how things played out.
22:19
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know.
22:20
Speaker 1: Dan Corsentino, former police chief and former sheriff, also served
22:24
Speaker 1: on US Homeland Security Senior Advisory Board now PI.
22:29
Speaker 2: At dancorsantino dot com.
22:31
Speaker 1: Dan, right there, I'm telling you that is the critical moment,
22:35
Speaker 1: the critical moment when suddenly nobody's sure, what where.
22:41
Speaker 2: Where did he go that way or that way?
22:43
Speaker 1: Was the stepmom with him not with him? That is
22:47
Speaker 1: where the problem lies right there. You've seen it a
22:51
Speaker 1: million times. You've been a sheriff, you've been a police chief,
22:55
Speaker 1: you've been on Homeland Security.
22:56
Speaker 2: Right there, when the stories.
22:58
Speaker 1: Begin to go in different directions. Everything's going along normally,
23:05
Speaker 1: Dad leaves for work, everything's fine, they get to the school,
23:09
Speaker 1: they make it to.
23:10
Speaker 2: The science fair.
23:11
Speaker 1: But it's suddenly with step mommy leaves, that's when everything
23:16
Speaker 1: hits the fan.
23:18
Speaker 12: Dan Corsantino, Absolutely, that was the defining moment, that was
23:22
Speaker 12: the beginning of the journey in the sad case. What
23:27
Speaker 12: is really really interesting about this is the comfort level.
23:32
Speaker 2: That kyn had and who he had the comfort level.
23:36
Speaker 12: With, and there was only one person on that particular
23:40
Speaker 12: morning when he was at the school with Terry. That
23:46
Speaker 12: was the person he had a comfort level with. Obviously teachers,
23:50
Speaker 12: students and everything. But unless this was a stranger abduction,
23:54
Speaker 12: which I don't think it was, that was individual that
23:58
Speaker 12: he had the comfort level with, and everything changed as
24:02
Speaker 12: her story continues to change.
24:04
Speaker 1: You know, you just mentioned something really important to be
24:06
Speaker 1: in Coursentino. You said, unless this was a stranger abduction,
24:09
Speaker 1: let's just talk about the reality of that possibility. Doctor
24:13
Speaker 1: Sherry Schwartz joining me. She is a forensic psychologist and
24:17
Speaker 1: her specialty is criminal behavior. She's the author of Criminal
24:21
Speaker 1: Behavior and Where Law and psychology intersect. Doctor Sherry Schwartz,
24:29
Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. That is not a
24:32
Speaker 1: possibility that there was a stranger abduction in the middle
24:39
Speaker 1: of the elementary school science fair. Okay, the science fair
24:43
Speaker 1: was ending, the eight forty five bail was going off
24:47
Speaker 1: for everyone.
24:47
Speaker 2: To go to class. What stranger what? Who?
24:51
Speaker 1: No stranger is in that building. Everyone is dispersing and leaving.
24:57
Speaker 1: The only one there where the story goes side ways
25:00
Speaker 1: is with the stepmother.
25:02
Speaker 2: Doctor Sherry Schwartz. Yes, that's correct.
25:05
Speaker 13: She's the last one that was seen with Karen and
25:10
Speaker 13: Kiren hasn't been seen since. And when people use words
25:15
Speaker 13: like retaliation when we're talking about a missing child, they're
25:19
Speaker 13: missing stepchild that they've known since an infant, every alarm
25:23
Speaker 13: in my brain goes off, every alarm. You're right, doctor
25:27
Speaker 13: Sherry Schwartz.
25:28
Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, let's take a listen to
25:31
Speaker 1: stepmom Terry on our friend doctor Field's program.
25:37
Speaker 14: This was in retaliation for something that he was doing
25:40
Speaker 14: that I found out about while this is happening. And
25:43
Speaker 14: this particular person was actually his friend and sent.
25:48
Speaker 2: To the house. So this was a setup.
25:51
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, a setup retaliation.
25:55
Speaker 2: What is she even talking about?
25:57
Speaker 1: Listen to more of the stepmom speaking to our friend
26:02
Speaker 1: doctor Phil.
26:03
Speaker 2: Well, that would be.
26:04
Speaker 14: Because the law enforcement told us to go to do
26:09
Speaker 14: what we told us to do, things that we normally do.
26:12
Speaker 14: So they want you to go grocery shopping, they want
26:15
Speaker 14: you to go to the gym. Specifically told both Kane
26:17
Speaker 14: and I, and he was with me that day when
26:19
Speaker 14: we will win it.
26:21
Speaker 1: Okay, what she's talking about, because she'd possibly be talking
26:26
Speaker 1: about the X rated photo she's sending a lover within
26:31
Speaker 1: just days after Kyine disappearing, I mean, Kine, I don't
26:37
Speaker 1: know what you went through. I thought I knew everything
26:41
Speaker 1: about grief. When my fiance was murdered. I couldn't eat,
26:44
Speaker 1: I couldn't sleep, I could barely speak. I couldn't stand
26:47
Speaker 1: to hear music or TV or radio or even the
26:50
Speaker 1: clock ticking. I would vomit and vomit. I couldn't keep
26:54
Speaker 1: anything on my stomach. The last thing I could have
26:58
Speaker 1: thought about is sending X rayed photos of myself to
27:02
Speaker 1: some guy. I mean, that's just not where your head
27:06
Speaker 1: is at a tivel like that.
27:08
Speaker 4: The first thing that I wanted to do was to
27:10
Speaker 4: cooperate with law enforcement as much as possible, And when
27:13
Speaker 4: I wasn't doing that, I was sitting in another room,
27:16
Speaker 4: staring at the floor and crying. For the first couple
27:19
Speaker 4: of days, I think I slept for maybe twenty minutes.
27:22
Speaker 4: The night that he went missing, we had a house
27:25
Speaker 4: full of law enforcement. One of the sheriff's officers that
27:29
Speaker 4: I had gotten to know over that period of time
27:33
Speaker 4: sat across from me in the room, and I think
27:35
Speaker 4: I might have knotted off for twenty minutes. Maybe everything
27:39
Speaker 4: was do everything possible, as fast as possible, whatever we
27:42
Speaker 4: needed to do, and it was just being ready and
27:46
Speaker 4: available to go through the process that they conduct through
27:49
Speaker 4: the investigation as much as we could. Like I said,
27:53
Speaker 4: when I wasn't doing that, I was basically sitting there
27:55
Speaker 4: crying for the first and that was the first few days.
27:58
Speaker 4: It was the grief was overwhelming, and at the same time,
28:04
Speaker 4: like we talked about in the ride up to the school,
28:06
Speaker 4: in my brain was just frantically trying to figure out,
28:09
Speaker 4: you know, what could we possibly be doing? Is this real?
28:13
Speaker 4: It's still just really hadn't sunk in all the way,
28:16
Speaker 4: but it had at the same time. I don't know
28:18
Speaker 4: if that makes any sense, but just mulling over everything.
28:21
Speaker 4: But yeah, I don't remember sleeping that much for the
28:24
Speaker 4: first week, if not longer, because we were in the
28:27
Speaker 4: middle of the investigation, we were being investigated in all
28:31
Speaker 4: the interviews and everything else that we were trying to
28:34
Speaker 4: get through. I mean, I was not on social media
28:37
Speaker 4: at all that I recall. I don't even recall cracking
28:39
Speaker 4: a laptop. I don't remember being on my phone. I
28:43
Speaker 4: just remember working with the team as much as humanly
28:45
Speaker 4: possible to make progress and on finding him. So the
28:50
Speaker 4: things that you're describing to me completely foreign to me
28:53
Speaker 4: at that time, and still it just ye. Sorry, I
28:58
Speaker 4: don't know how it's answered. It was just it was
29:02
Speaker 4: a very intense period of time. I have no idea
29:04
Speaker 4: how anyone would be on that mindset.
29:06
Speaker 15: Terry alleges she drove along country roads to sooth daughter
29:10
Speaker 15: Kiera's erich the morning of Chirrine's disappearance. Terry's friend Deetie
29:15
Speaker 15: allegedly rushes out of work at the same time as
29:18
Speaker 15: Terry's drive after receiving a mysterious phone call her whereabouts
29:23
Speaker 15: during this time are unknown. Witnesses at the school report
29:26
Speaker 15: an unidentified man in a white pickup truck at the
29:30
Speaker 15: science fair, but his identity remains a mystery.
29:34
Speaker 1: Guys, there's so much misdirection going on right here, so
29:39
Speaker 1: much misdirection. To Anette Newel joining us Katexale news host,
29:45
Speaker 1: Annette again, thank you for being with us. That parking
29:48
Speaker 1: lot was likely full of parents leaving leaving the science fair,
29:56
Speaker 1: but you are telling me evidence has emerged of at
30:01
Speaker 1: least one witness seeing the stepmother leaving with Tyrone.
30:08
Speaker 2: Is that correct?
30:09
Speaker 6: They were seen out in front of the school by
30:12
Speaker 6: one of Kyron's friends, His grandma and sister as well
30:15
Speaker 6: as his bus driver. They were walking out to the
30:17
Speaker 6: main road, which is where the truck was parked. That
30:20
Speaker 6: witnesses saw Terry and Kyroen leaving the school together that
30:23
Speaker 6: morning and heading toward their truck, according to Quayinna. Also,
30:27
Speaker 6: Terry said that she drove around town that day, stopping
30:30
Speaker 6: at the two grocery stores to get medicine for her
30:33
Speaker 6: daughter who wasn't feeling well. Then police found that Terry's
30:37
Speaker 6: phone painted her own Highway thirty north of Portland and
30:41
Speaker 6: that time period.
30:42
Speaker 1: Now you're telling me that she in the vehicle in
30:46
Speaker 1: the truck was bought it at not one, but at
30:48
Speaker 1: least two grocery stores. Could the video be highlighted enhanced
30:54
Speaker 1: to see if Kyen was in the car at that time.
30:57
Speaker 6: That's something that they tried to do a bunch of time,
31:00
Speaker 6: and they couldn't conclusively tell whether he was in the
31:02
Speaker 6: car or not.
31:10
Speaker 2: Crime stores with Nancy, Grace, Annett and Neil joining us
31:17
Speaker 2: k x L.
31:18
Speaker 1: And that video depicting the stepmother going to at least
31:24
Speaker 1: to grocery stores, was that immediately upon her leaving the school.
31:28
Speaker 6: Yeah, they do think it fit the timeline of what
31:30
Speaker 6: she was talking about, although there was some other time
31:34
Speaker 6: that they weren't sure if they could definitely connect what
31:38
Speaker 6: she was saying she did versus what she did. But
31:41
Speaker 6: they did find that there was some video of her
31:44
Speaker 6: from surveillance cameras in that area that did show her
31:48
Speaker 6: and show her in the truck.
31:50
Speaker 1: Right question, you mentioned the pinging of her cell phone.
31:54
Speaker 1: Explain to me where her cell phone pained.
31:57
Speaker 6: Yeah, it was an area in north Portland, not far
32:01
Speaker 6: from the school, around Highway thirty which runs north of Portland,
32:06
Speaker 6: and that was after she'd spent time driving her daughter around.
32:10
Speaker 6: She said she was driving in that area to settle
32:13
Speaker 6: her daughter down. It's what she told police when they
32:17
Speaker 6: asked why she was why the phone was paying around
32:20
Speaker 6: in that area.
32:21
Speaker 2: To Kaye Horman, this is Karen's dad.
32:24
Speaker 1: When you asked her what had happened that morning, did
32:27
Speaker 1: she describe this circuitous route driving around with the daughter
32:30
Speaker 1: in the car to help her earache.
32:32
Speaker 4: Yes, she did. She talked about the retailers she stopped at.
32:36
Speaker 4: I want to say there was a gem stop. Again,
32:39
Speaker 4: I don't recall it's been a while, but she did
32:41
Speaker 4: outline that. She outlined a few of the country roads
32:44
Speaker 4: that they were driving on. She wasn't overly specific about
32:47
Speaker 4: which ones. There was a few she talked about, but
32:50
Speaker 4: after that it was just driving around. But yeah, I
32:52
Speaker 4: was familiar with that kind of timetable.
32:55
Speaker 3: The fourteen year investigation has turned up no clues as
32:59
Speaker 3: to little Kiren's whereabouts, but family and investigators suspect this
33:05
Speaker 3: was no accident. Stepmom Terry maintains her innocence as the
33:10
Speaker 3: Hormon family continues their desperate search for answers.
33:14
Speaker 1: We know the stepmother has never been formally charged in
33:19
Speaker 1: Karen Horman's disappearance. She has become the target of public suspicion.
33:26
Speaker 1: But there seems to be a chain of alleged misconduct
33:32
Speaker 1: really since the moment Kiren goes missing. Now to you,
33:36
Speaker 1: doctor Sherry Schwartz, I know that everyone reacts differently to
33:43
Speaker 1: pain or suffering, or loss or even stress. But this
33:48
Speaker 1: series of alleged misconduct does not bode well, doctor Sherry.
33:54
Speaker 13: Not at all. And this isn't to me, This isn't
33:58
Speaker 13: anything that would cost it to trauma response or a
34:02
Speaker 13: grief response. This is very specific behavior. She's talking about
34:07
Speaker 13: retaliation against Kirn's dad. She is saying things like the
34:13
Speaker 13: police told her things like to go to the gym. Now,
34:17
Speaker 13: I don't know if they did or they didn't, but
34:18
Speaker 13: I would find that very strange because most parents are
34:22
Speaker 13: out looking. And also, Nancy, if I lost somebody's sunglasses
34:27
Speaker 13: that didn't belong to me, I'd be scouring the neighborhood
34:30
Speaker 13: to find out where did I leave them, let alone
34:33
Speaker 13: losing someone's child.
34:35
Speaker 1: I also understand that Terry Lynn Moulton formerly Terry Horman,
34:41
Speaker 1: face grand theft firearm charges stemming from an incident in Marysville, California, regarding.
34:48
Speaker 2: A stolen gun.
34:50
Speaker 1: It's just like one thing after the next, and Againcy
34:54
Speaker 1: is not Ever, she's never been named a suspect, a
34:58
Speaker 1: formal suspect. And the disappearance of Kiren, you know, Caine,
35:03
Speaker 1: you earlier mentioned that you and the whole family were
35:08
Speaker 1: being investigated. That's SOP standard operating procedure. When someone goes missing,
35:13
Speaker 1: the first place police look, as they should, is at
35:17
Speaker 1: the family members, particularly the male members. Statistically, that's typically
35:22
Speaker 1: who did it tell me about being the target of
35:27
Speaker 1: an investigation yourself while your son is missing?
35:32
Speaker 2: What was that like?
35:35
Speaker 4: The one way I can describe it is is it
35:37
Speaker 4: was something that that I needed to do. I knew
35:40
Speaker 4: I didn't have any involvements. I knew that really at
35:44
Speaker 4: that point, it wasn't about me, is really all I
35:46
Speaker 4: can say is about him, and I did everything I
35:49
Speaker 4: was asked to do as fast and quickly and urgently
35:54
Speaker 4: as possible to clear myself in the investigation because I
35:58
Speaker 4: wanted them to be focused on who it So it
36:02
Speaker 4: was just I don't know, I set aside, there was
36:05
Speaker 4: not really a lot of emotions from me on that front,
36:07
Speaker 4: other than they indicated the process and my job was
36:11
Speaker 4: to clear the process, and that's absolutely what I wanted
36:14
Speaker 4: to do, and again as urgently as possible. The focus
36:16
Speaker 4: was on him, finding him as quickly as possible. It
36:19
Speaker 4: really didn't have to do with me as far as
36:22
Speaker 4: how I felt about what was happening. It was just
36:24
Speaker 4: what I needed to do as his parent to help
36:27
Speaker 4: him get recovered as early as possible. So it was
36:29
Speaker 4: basically my mission to do every and anything asked to
36:34
Speaker 4: clear that process and continue to move forward. So it
36:37
Speaker 4: was a lot less about emotion at that point. I
36:39
Speaker 4: know I described the first couple like twenty four to
36:41
Speaker 4: forty eight hours just being kind of unresponsive unless I
36:45
Speaker 4: was being interviewed with investigators, crying and all that stuff,
36:49
Speaker 4: And as we started to get further into the process,
36:51
Speaker 4: I kind of had to set that aside and become
36:54
Speaker 4: more focused on what needed to be done, the task
36:58
Speaker 4: that needed to be done, and not being emotional about
37:01
Speaker 4: how I felt. At that particular point in time. I
37:03
Speaker 4: missed him. I was frantic, but at the same time
37:05
Speaker 4: I needed them to focus on who actually did this.
37:09
Speaker 4: So it was about clearing. It was one hundred percent
37:11
Speaker 4: just about clearing everything that I needed to clear so
37:14
Speaker 4: we could stay focused on him.
37:16
Speaker 1: I don't even no words to describe what I think
37:20
Speaker 1: you've been through. But now, what is your message to
37:26
Speaker 1: anybody out there that may know anything about Tyron?
37:31
Speaker 4: Well, first and foremost, Kyen, if you're still out there,
37:35
Speaker 4: we're still looking for you, So I will always lead
37:37
Speaker 4: with that. No one's given up. We are still looking.
37:42
Speaker 4: We haven't given up. We love you, we miss you.
37:44
Speaker 4: We are still active, the investigations active, We're still looking
37:49
Speaker 4: to everyone out there. Keep recording tips. We have tips
37:53
Speaker 4: coming in through the phone still to this day, lots
37:57
Speaker 4: on email. There's a website that I'm I'm sure that
38:01
Speaker 4: you guys will have the information for that. The Sheriff's
38:03
Speaker 4: office is put up now in addition to the one
38:05
Speaker 4: that we've put up for the past fourteen years, they
38:09
Speaker 4: recently put up a new one that gives a rough timeline,
38:12
Speaker 4: gives the tip line, it gives an email tip line.
38:15
Speaker 4: Would encourage everyone to submit tips, no matter how big
38:19
Speaker 4: or small you think they are. Try not to rule
38:22
Speaker 4: them out, try not to filter them, Just submit them
38:24
Speaker 4: and the investigators will do that work. But urge anybody
38:27
Speaker 4: who feels that they witnessed anything, no matter how long
38:30
Speaker 4: ago it was, to submit that information through the tip line,
38:35
Speaker 4: and again, don't try to filter it out, don't try
38:38
Speaker 4: to vet it for yourself, give it, pass it along.
38:41
Speaker 4: So I would highly encourage that. The other thing is
38:43
Speaker 4: there are age progress photos on the website. There's I
38:46
Speaker 4: think the original and three others. He's not seven anymore,
38:50
Speaker 4: and so that's one thing that we try to remind
38:52
Speaker 4: folks is that he's older. He may or may not
38:55
Speaker 4: have his glasses right now as well, so if he
38:57
Speaker 4: is still alive and he is out there with somebody,
39:00
Speaker 4: you know, we're trying to get people familiarized with those
39:02
Speaker 4: age progressed with and without the glasses. So if they
39:04
Speaker 4: do see a similarity that they call on that tip
39:07
Speaker 4: as well. But the tip line that both the phone
39:10
Speaker 4: and the email are open. They're still actively getting tips.
39:13
Speaker 4: Please continue to submit them as much as you can.
39:17
Speaker 1: You can, of course call Enigma or one eight hundred
39:20
Speaker 1: the Lost, one eight hundred the Lost. There is a
39:26
Speaker 1: fifty thousand dollar reward for information leading to the resolution
39:32
Speaker 1: of Kirene's disappearance, A fifty thousand dollar reward. Thank you
39:39
Speaker 1: for being with us, joining us in the search for
39:43
Speaker 1: Kiren Horman Nancy Grace signing off, goodbye friend,