Latest / The Kulturecast / Kulture Meltdown: Good Luck, Have Fun, Don't Die (2025) — "All of this is going to go horribly wrong."

Transcript

Kulture Meltdown: Good Luck, Have Fun, Don't Die (2025) — "All of this is going to go horribly wrong." · The Kulturecast

• 0:46
  Speaker 1: I am from the future. And I'm here to set
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: it right. Look homeless, bro. I'm not homeless. I come
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: from a nightmare apocalypse. This is the height of fashion.
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: Judgment day. Wait, we're expendable? Yeah.
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: Hello, everyone, and welcome to Culture Meltdown, a crossover show
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: between my show, The Culture Cast, where I'm the host,
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: Chris Dashew, and a crossover with Brian Renfro's show, Movie Meltdown,
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: where he's the host.
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: I am. I can't argue with that. Yes, you are.
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: Every time I show up, I'm there. That's right. It's
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: the craziest thing.
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: And on this episode, we're talking about 2025's Good Luck,
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: Have Fun, Don't Die, Gore Verbinski's first film. In nearly
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: a decade, he was put in what we so colloquially
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: refer to as movie jail after he directed a little
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: film that I'm sure we're going to talk about at
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: least a little bit, which is The Lone Ranger from 2013, which,
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: by the way, I'd like to point out in this
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: day and age, grossing $ 260 million on a $ 250 million budget,
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: that's called making money.
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: Um, yeah, it, it shows you even, even in that,
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: what I feel like is a small span of time.
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: What's funny is that's an immense amount of time for
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: a lot of people out there. So it all is
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: kind of how you gauge the passage of time, I guess.
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: But I think of that as still a recent movie.
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: And in that little amount of time, so much has
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: changed in the industry that like, it's insane. Yeah, no.
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: And, and I, I completely, you know, I completely agree.
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: The industry is a, um, The industry is definitely a
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: different animal than it was, especially in 2013. But I mean,
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: even like you said, essentially fucking year to year at
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: this point, it's just so different. I know he directed
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: A Cure for Wellness in 2016, but.
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: See, here's the thing. I was looking at the lineup
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: before we started. I was like, oh, I would just...
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: I remembered the big ones, but I was like, yeah,
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: what else did he... And I remembered that being like
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: it had been like eight years or something even since
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: that movie. And I'm looking at it going, yeah, I
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: remember the title. I don't think I saw... And I'm
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: starting to see screenshots pop up and I'm like... I
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: think I did watch this. So what does that say
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: about the movie? It's the movie that ended Dane DeHaan's career,
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: more or less. Well, I think he ended his own career.
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: Well, fair, but at the same time, it was one
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: of those- I don't dislike him, but- No, it's one
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: of those things where it's like, you can't be the
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: starring guy in a film, apparently. He was put in
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: as much movie jail as Gore Verbinski was.
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: They kept trying to give him movies, and it just
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: didn't work over and over again. And this was the
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: last one, and- But yeah, I'm looking at screenshots going, wait,
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: that looks familiar. I think I did see this. So
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: that kind of encapsulates, you know, probably everyone's take on
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: that movie of like, oh yeah, did I see that movie?
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: So it's obviously not the most memorable film because I
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: couldn't remember that I'd seen it. And I think I had.
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: Well, I was actually, to go and look at Dane
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: DeHaan's filmography, the film that put Dane DeHaan in movie
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: jail is Valerian and the City of a Thousand Planets.
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: That's the one I was thinking of because I... I
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: more than most people kind of enjoy that movie. Yeah.
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: But I still feel like he's the weak link. I'm like,
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: it's sad that between the two of you, like she's
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: carrying this movie for you, buddy. Like Cara Delevingne. Yeah.
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: That is a, that's a sad, I was just like
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: state of affairs when she's the carrier of the torch.
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: I think she's pretty damn good in that movie. And
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: then I'm looking at like, yeah, you're trying to be cool,
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: but it's just not coming across on the screen. And that's,
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: we can all read it. Like, we're all like, Ooh,
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: what are you doing, man? Like, Yeah, I don't know.
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: I don't dislike the guy, but he's just had a
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: weird run.
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, and speaking of weird runs, like I mentioned
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: at the opening here, on this episode of The Culture Meltdown,
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: we're taking a look at Good Luck, Have Fun, Don't Die.
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: Which is Gore Verbinski's latest film.
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: So the film is directed by Gore Verbinski on a
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: script by Matthew Robinson. It stars the ever-charming, very charismatic,
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: and in this film, 100% homeless, appearing anyways, Sam Rockwell.
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: as a time traveler who is sent back to the past,
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: to a norms, to try and stop, tell me if
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: you've heard this one before, AI from taking over the world. Uh,
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: Gore Verbinski had his finger on the pulse of the
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: way the world was going him and Matthew Robinson, apparently,
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: because this film came out a year ago before what
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: I would consider to be AI kind of really taking
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: off in a mainstream scary mode. I mean, again, like
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: the moment it's being made available to people in a,
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: I mean, a utilitarian way. I mean, you know, again,
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: it's like, it's like so many things. I mean, you know, people, people,
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: I think overlook how important having access to a camera
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: phone was. And I think AI in a lot of
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: ways is that kind of technological move forward that is
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: now that it's in the hands of just people, it
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: can go any number of directions and, you know, for
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: good and for bad, obviously. And so this movie, I
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: don't know, it feels very timely. I wonder about the
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: timeliness of it 10 years from now if it'll be
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: just like, oh, that fucking movie was fun.
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: But is it going to seem silly like when we
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: watch Johnny Mnemonic now? Well, that's what, yeah. Wow, he's
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: got four gigs in his head. Good going, man. Yeah, wow.
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: It just seems weird now.
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it just feels, yeah, it feels like a different
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: time and a different place and technology has come so
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: far so quickly. I mean, even again, to speak to
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: the year ago of it when it came out at
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: Fantastic Fest and then earlier this year when it was
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: on Hulu, like it's... A lot has changed in terms
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: of consumer AI, I think is the best term for it.
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: But it is a film about a man from the
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: future who claims to be from the future who goes
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: to a diner in L.A. and assembles a group of
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: people to help him fight AI. Juno Temple is among
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: those people. Haley Lou Richardson, Michael Pena, Zazie Beetz. Asim
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: Chowdhury and Tom Taylor as well. Brian, what did you
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: think of Good Luck, Have Fun, Don't Die, a film
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: that I almost covered earlier this year, but Dr. Perlmutter
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: and I decided to cover something else. So I thought
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: I was going to watch it earlier this year and
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: then came back to it. So I'm very curious what
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: led you to want to talk about this? What did
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: you think of the film? Kind of You know, what's
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: the opening thesis here? It's interesting because I just saw
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: it when it first hit.
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: I don't even know if it first hit. I just
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: saw it on streaming like several months ago and watched
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: it for the first time. Then it was interesting just
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: in that span of time, how different it seemed. Like
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: even just watching it a few months ago versus these
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: last two or three weeks of what they're talking about
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: on the news every day. it really, like, it hits different. Like,
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: it's just like, yeah, this seemed like silly sci-fi probably
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: in 2025, which is not that long ago. But it
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: is kind of odd how of the moment it is
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: right now. And then, as you said, I do wonder
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: how weird it will be to revisit this in 10 years.
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: But that aside, in the moment is a little unnerving
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: to watch it, truthfully. And my quick wrap up is
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: the same thing I thought the first time I watched it.
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: It's basically just Black Mirror, the movie, except they've actually
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: done those. But if it wasn't already a pre-existing idea,
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: it's like, how can we take weird little, very sci-fi
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: future tech things cram them into a story and then
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: just make it sort of a weird awkward funny story
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: and all of that is going on here it's just
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: sort of encapsulated in one like hour and a half
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: movie not 30 minute intervals so.
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: Whoa whoa whoa whoa this movie is two hours and
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: 10 minutes all right wait a second now let's let's
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: get something straight this movie is about half an hour
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: too long that's what i was gonna say was i
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: supposed to finish that last 30 minutes no kidding i
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: that so You mentioned the idea of like, well, this
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: even now feels kind of horrifying. I guess my whole
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: thing with AI, and look, I can't see the future
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: any more than anyone else could, because if I could,
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: I'd be a multimillionaire taking advantage of whatever stupid shit
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: people are getting themselves into on TikTok or what have you.
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: So I can only presume to speak to what's going
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: on right now, not what someone 10 years from now
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: is hearing on this show if they listen to it
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: 10 years from now.
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: A lot of this.
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: Movie feels like doomsaying and overreacting and taking advantage of,
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: I think the public outcry about AI, which I'm not saying,
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: you know, true or false. I mean, again, like I
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: think it's, It's a very nuanced conversation that I've had
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: with multiple people, you and I, including in private and
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: in public about kind of AI and how that affects
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: me and you in terms of the creative field and
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: how it affects people in the non-creative field and intersections
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: among all those things. So it's not surprising that we're
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: getting a movie like this. It's not surprising that there's
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: a movie that's essentially the Terminator. I mean, it's like
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: AI the Terminator, which sounds reductive. And it is because
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: I think a lot of parts of this movie are reductive.
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: I think a lot of these parts of this movie
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: are just doing something someone else has done, but better.
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: And I mean, they did it better, not here. And
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: I do think that there are parts of this movie
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: that are better versions of things we've seen before.
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: But this is trafficking. a lot of things we've seen
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: before I mean a lot of stuff to go to
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: the Terminator yeah To.
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: Go to Back to the Future, like you said, Black Mirror.
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: I was going to mention Twilight Zone or Tales from
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: the Crypt. I mean, any of these things. I mean,
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: and again, we will be talking spoilers at some point,
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: but even to go to the ending of the movie
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: leans into that.
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: Like the way the movie resolves itself has.
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: A very Tales from the Crypt, Twilight Zone, Tales of
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: the Dark Side, like all of those anthology shows. This
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: has one of those kinds of endings. This film does.
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: And I think for me, that speaks to, like you said,
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: what was the intention behind this? And it's telling a
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: story that has been told before, but it's punching it
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: up to be about AI, more specifically AI, bodiless AI,
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: not Skynet. Which, I mean, again, to be fair, Skynet
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: and Terminator is technically not a bodied AI. It is
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: a amorphous AI. So it's almost like saying, well, it's
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: not like Skynet, but it's just like Skynet.
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: It's like, yeah, okay. So again, it's even.
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: even further already a thing we've seen. So I don't know,
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: like a guy going back in time to try and
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: stop the future from turning out badly. And then he
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: runs into someone who he may or may not be
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: related to. That just smacks of things I've seen before.
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: Not to say I wasn't entertained by this movie, but
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: there are parts of this movie that feel wildly derivative
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: of much better, much more iconic in a lot of
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: way films.
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think instead of like the whole setup and
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: the basic premise is very Terminator. But instead of it
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: being like big shiny robots stepping on human skulls future,
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: it then kind of switches and it's more of a
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: WALL-E future of like, look, you brain dead morons are
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: going to let this happen. And then you're just going
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: to be floating in your chairs because you can't move
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: anymore because you're useless. So it's a way more like.
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: I mean, there's a little bit of Ready Player One
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: even in there. Like it's that, you know, I would
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: rather be in the AI world than I would be in.
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: The real world. And.
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: in this film, you can transition entirely into the AI world.
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: I mean, again, to go to something else, it reminded
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: me of, reminded me of the second season of Westworld
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: where it's like the conversation about, is there, is there
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: an AI thing past this, where the AI can go to,
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: to mingle with real people or real people mingling with AI.
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: And it's like this movie kind of, again, takes that
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: step further to make it a plot point. Um, a
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: bit of a MacGuffin kind of, I mean, it's again, it's,
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: I'm not going to say it's lazy. It's just it's
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: wearing its influences on its sleeve very obviously, and it's
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: not doing anything to hide.
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: Well, and it's also not just that one story. That's
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: sort of the big wraparound story. It's really kind of
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: like four different stories because each time we cut away
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: to one of these characters and get a little flashback,
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: it almost disappears. delves into a whole other thing like
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: it it's a different subsection of making a snide comment
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: or taking a funny look at this and like it's
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: it's satire for each step along the way but it
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: picks kind of a different subcategory with each flashback story
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: so you've got those three flashback stories mixed in with
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: the whole wraparound to give you kind of four different
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: And each one sort of crosses over into the other,
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: but they all kind of make their own specific point
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: in their sub little movie in between. So there's a
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: lot of, I think, weird sci-fi type stories to sort
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: of tackle in this that are all wrapped up into
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: this one package.
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: Well and i think you know you you put it
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: pretty aptly it is it is an anthology light film
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: i mean it does have a it does have a
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: through line and i think you know you know we
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: can have this conversation we start getting into spoilers but
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: i could have done without one or the other trying
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: to cram both into the film with this this kind
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: of plot doesn't work super well because the film and
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: the third act.
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: Just drags along i mean drags drags drag it's just
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: too long it's 30 minutes too long 40 minutes too
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: long even it is a half an hour too long
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: because it's just because it had to do all of
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: these setup stories and i mean frankly you know i
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: i think you know let's just i i think we
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: can talk spoilers from here on out but i think
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: would you suggest people check this out on hulu again
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: it's not i still fucking worry if you have hulu
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: so yeah I still like it. I like pretty much
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: all of the performances. I think it is well directed.
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: It looks good. It has a lot of really interesting
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: ideas in the story. It's just it's far from perfect.
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: It's definitely got issues just in the way it's attempting
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: to weave them together. Sometimes it doesn't. Mesh quite right.
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: But and then mostly that that end is just it's
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: it becomes what not to jump right to the end,
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: but it becomes what a lot of big budget movies become.
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: And not that this is a huge budget for him.
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: It's actually kind of minimal. But anything, especially sci fi related,
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: it seems like, OK, now it's the finale and we've
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: got to do a big thing. thing in the sky
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: that we all have to look up at and be like, oh,
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: look at that. Big blue light. Or it's just a
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: bunch of random CG monsters we have to kill or
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: one big CG monster at the end that's the big
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: bad that we have to get past. So it's always...
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: that becomes the finale is like, and here's a whole
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: bunch of bad effects. Like, and this one's not terrible
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: really effects wise, but the premise is not all that creative.
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: It's just like, yeah, okay. That's, that's a thing you
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: could say is the big finale in this sci-fi movie,
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: I guess. But like, that was the weakest part for me.
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: It was that finale, just the premise of it, the
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: way that it's because you have to visually represent what
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: they've been like alluding to this whole time. So like
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: they do that and it's just kind of like, well, Yeah,
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: I mean, I guess you have to come up with
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: some way to visually represent this. And this is a version.
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: But it also I feel like just takes so much
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: time in that process. I actually don't mind the setups
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: in the other times. And it does a decent job
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: working in all those plot lines along the way into
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: a coherent story, more or less. But I don't know,
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: it just it drags that finale scene so long because
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: I don't even mind the end after the finale. Like
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: the little cap there kind of works and I'm okay
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: with most of what's going on there. It's just that
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: like 30 minutes of finale towards the end that just
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: drags everything down.
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: Of the three acts, I think the third act is
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: obviously the weakest for sure. I would say, you know,
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: the setup is so interesting that I don't think I
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: don't think the movie ever really lives up to the
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: first 20 minutes of the movie where we have Sam
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: Rockwell in the diner.
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: You know, that's what I was going to say. That's, that's,
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: it's so strong in the opening. It's such a, such
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: a strong opening. It does. It just kind of like, yeah,
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: I'm done. Like, okay. And, and it's too bad. Yeah.
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: And that's the thing. So let's talk spoilers. So spoilers
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: from here on out, if you haven't seen the film,
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: I'm going to agree with Brian, check it out. I'm
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: not going to at all say it's perfect. I think
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: it is a, it is a, flawed film in terms
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: of the length. I think it's flawed in terms of
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: the focus. I think the tone is right on. I
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: think to your point, Brian, the casting is really well done.
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: I haven't been the biggest fan of Juno Temple and stuff.
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: Recently, primarily because she's just beyond obnoxious in Ted Lasso.
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: And that's kind of the only thing that I'm like
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: subjected to her in For the most part? I'm on Fargo, though.
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: Did you see her in Fargo?
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: I haven't, and I know that she's good in it.
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: She is good, yeah.
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: Her character in Ted Lasso is a very specific kind
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: of character, and I know that that character can seem grating,
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: and she's kind of grating in the show. But I
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: like her as an actress, especially from Killer Joe, which
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: I don't know if you've seen.
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah.
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: That was the first thing I ever saw her in.
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: So all of those early.
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: Like smaller films she was in, I thought she was
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: great in, and I hadn't really seen a lot in
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: the middle. And then I saw that season of Fargo.
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: I was like, Oh no, she's still got it. Like
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: she can still deliver. So yeah, I would say definitely
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: go see her season of Fargo.
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: But I think all the performances are pretty good. I
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: think Sam Rockwell is obviously the standout. But yeah, I
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: would say you could do worse with two hours of
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: your time. I think my issue is it is a
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: little long and it does drag. And I think you
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: might be checking your phone or checking your watch by
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: the end of the movie going, can we get to
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: the point here? So let's talk spoilers. So Sam Rockwell's
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: character has traveled. Again, the trailer sells it as he's
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: traveled back in time from a future where AI has
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: kind of taken over and has no guardrails on it.
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: Stop me if you've heard this before.
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: And he is coming back to insert a thumb drive
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: into the AI that is being created to kind of
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: put limiters on it before it can be created. So
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: it'll have limiters on it ahead of creation. And that
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: is ostensibly the way the film is set up. But
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: it turns out that Sam Rockwell's character is actually in
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: a happy death day to you, Groundhog Day loop
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: .
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: .
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: the setup of the film is so enthralling
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: and interesting that it's like this monologue that Sam Rockwell has.
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: It's like, it's like fucking 10 minutes long. I mean,
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: it's like, it's just, but it's so good.
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: It's so good.
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: And the problem is, you know, similarly, I would say
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: to something that I just watched over the weekend with Digger,
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: like the, the film is all about one performance.
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: It really is.
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: Like this film is really all about Sam Rockwell. The
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: way Digger is all about Tom Cruise. Like it's all
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: about this one actor doing this one thing, this one
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: very specific thing, the whole film. if you don't like
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: what Sam Rockwell is doing in the first five minutes
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: of the movie, you might as well turn it off.
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you're in trouble.
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because it's not that it doesn't get any better,
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: but if it's grating to you, it's not going to
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: not get grating because it just, they double and triple
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: and quadruple down on a lot of kind of the
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: tropes and the things that you can expect from this
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: kind of story.
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: The things you might expect.
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: And so the twist, the initial twist of the film
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: is it's not really a time travel it's more of
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: a multiverse movie it's more of an everything everywhere all
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: at once which for me immediately and this this is
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: I think the first this is the first stop on
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: the train here do we really need another fucking multiverse
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: movie right now well I mean just asking for a
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: friend is that it's mostly it's it's not even a
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: normal time loop movie where it's stuck that way and
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: it's out of your hands it's a time loop movie
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: but only because the plan keeps going so badly he
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: has to keep redoing it so like that's an interesting
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: thing because they're never really in charge of that you
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: know in your normal time loop movies so they're always
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: like stuck doing this over and over and completely powerless
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: and half the time don't know why sometimes but i
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: i would say yes and no because in groundhog day
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: he kills himself to end things But he still doesn't
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: know why.
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: Like he has no power over it other than killing himself.
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: That's true. So he can reset. So like he doesn't understand.
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: I don't know if that makes it any better or
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: worse though because I think this movie kind of, I
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: think this movie shows why that's not necessarily the best
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: conceit to base your entire film's premise around because it
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: just kind of, again, it's like you have to convince
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: me why he's not pressing the button every time something
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: goes wrong.
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: I mean, I kind of like it because he's, as again,
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: and it's so much in his performance, he's just like
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: nailing everything as it happens. Like, and you see that
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: in every movie where specifically time loop movies, but any
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: time travel movie where somebody is going to call, this
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: is about to happen and that's about to happen. So like,
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: that's not surprising, but the way Sam Rockwell does it
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: and he continues to do it throughout, it's almost like
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: it's not as, as gimmicky as that. It's just references
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: throughout or like, he'll be like there. Why don't we
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: go down here? And he's like, well, cause you die.
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: Like he'll specifically just sort of, And just throw that
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: out there and keep going with his, his crazy conversation.
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: And like, he, he works all of the things in
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: that have happened to him. Like it's a real story.
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: It doesn't seem like it's just a gimmick that as
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: you're writing the screenplay, like it, he sells it so
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: much that it feels like he has been here 117
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: times and he's been through these things so many times
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: that now he's just sort of rolling with it and like, okay,
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: what can we do now? So I, I, I feel
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: like that's kind of why it's like, okay, this is
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: different from, That's good. So maybe it seems like it's
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: going wrong for a minute, but if it's not that wrong,
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: maybe this is the key that makes this one work
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: kind of a thing that he just keeps kind of
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: rolling with through most of the movie. And that I
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: at least buy into that because because of his performance,
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: because he sells that he's been through this so many
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: times that he's willing to take a chance if something
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: weird happens along the way. Well, and that's, you know,
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: I agree.
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: But at the same time, I do think that there
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: is a an aspect of the film that I just
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: I have a hard time with, which is time travels
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: hard enough as it is. And then making it a
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: multiverse thing kind of makes it even more complicated. And
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: I'm not saying they don't do a good job of
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: it here, but the parts that I thought were interesting
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: of what they were doing with it. they abandoned after
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: the first act, where you're talking about like, oh, you know,
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: this happens, and then this happens, and then this, and like,
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: that more or less disappears once they leave the diner.
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: He still references it along the way.
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: But it's not as enthralling and interesting as that initial setup.
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: It's almost like, I wish they could have just stayed
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: in the diner the entire movie. I know that that's
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: not interesting. But at the same time, just having CGI
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: nonsense thrown at the screen is not great either. I mean, again,
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: for a budget of $ 20 million, which I will say, like,
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: holy shit, how did you make this movie?
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, for as good as it looks.
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: How did you make this movie on $ 20 million? There
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: are some CGI things that just feel like, not that
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: they look bad, it's just they just feel unnecessary. There's definitely,
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: by the end, a lot of unnecessary. Yeah, and it's
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: unfortunate because, again, I would have... wish that that money
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: would have been spent on other things, not just having,
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: you know, CGI kind of bullshit on screen. Cause it's again, like, yeah,
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: it's something I've never seen before, but it is still CGI.
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: Like, you know, I don't know.
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: CGI was interesting when everything didn't have it and now
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: everything has it. And so it's like, well, I've seen
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: most things now, like not even, I don't know what
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: would be interesting anymore with CGI other than something that
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: is just like undiscernible to me as a human in
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: terms of me being unable to understand what this thing
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: is at like a base level. Like I think of
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: something like annihilation. where there's stuff in that movie where
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: it's like, that's the first time I've ever seen a
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: CGI thing like that.
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: And I can't really figure out, right.
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: I can't figure out what some of these things are
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: because it's like, it's genuinely thoughtful and interesting in its
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: design here. It's like, yeah, I get that it's a joke,
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: but at the same time, like what?
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: Okay. Like, I don't know.
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: It's, it feels like, it feels like certain things were
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: done in this movie to cover up for a weak
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: script in certain acts.
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: It does have that.
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: And you mentioned anthologies and, I can remember so many
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: anthology episodes of so many anthology series where it has
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: a really, really strong hook. And then by the end
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: of it, I'm just begging to be put out of
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: my misery. Some of those episodes were 20 minutes long
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: and they felt like three fucking hours. And that's the
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: problem with this movie. This movie is two and a
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: half hours and it feels like three, three and a half.
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: And it doesn't need to like it. It's not doing
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: anything that hasn't been done before in a, like, I
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: don't know. It's not, that creative a story it's not
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: creative that creative storytelling like it's not challenging me as
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: a viewer really it's just kind of riffing on some
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: notes that i've heard before do you really need two
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: and a half hours to do that.
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: And i think that's the difference is it keeps it
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: keeps going to the other sub stories more or less
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: and those i guess if you're into them it's good
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: and there are aspects of those I think are really
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: impressive and then but that's the thing you you add
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: a lot of time in with each one of those
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: and then you also each one is its own new
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: complicated technical stuff that we're adding in and they do
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: work it into the whole rest of the movie but
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: it's not necessary I can see like if you're trying
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: to cut time out of it in addition to trimming
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: down the end you could also take some of the
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: other aspects that get worked into this bigger sci-fi plot
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: and if you whittle some of that out of there
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: it would at least make it a little more focused
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: along the way so i i agree there's a lot
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: i think that may be the problem they were throwing
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: so much at the wall trying to see what what
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: would stick what would work what we can make a
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: movie out of and they were sort of doing it
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: in the finished product almost it's like instead of trying
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: to figure this out in the screenwriting aspect they were
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: just like let's just make all these things and something's
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: gonna work and like some of it does but Yeah,
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: it is a lot to process in this movie. Well, let's...
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: I want to talk about.
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: Some of the things that I think are, you know, again,
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: stopping points on this conversation.
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: So let's talk about the.
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: Once we have the characters introduced, and so, like we've mentioned,
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: it's Juno Temple, Zazie Beetz, Michael Pena, Azim Chowdhury, and
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: Tom Taylor... and Hayley Lou Richardson are the main people
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: from the diner. And I like how in that opening scene,
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: it's like, you know, we're very intentionally not seeing Michael
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: Pena and Zazie Beetz. Like, who are all these people
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: with their head down, looking off to the side, trying
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: to not be recognizable?
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: Because two-thirds of the guys.
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: I guess, fucking not two-thirds, most of the people in
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: this movie have been in a Marvel movie at some
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: point in the last five years. Juno Temple, Michael Pena,
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: and Zazie Beetz.
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: So.
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: It's like, you know, how I found that funny where
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: it's like, who's that person in the corner with their
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: head tilted down? That's probably Juno Temple just, you know,
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: waiting to say something. But I do want to talk about,
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: you know, after we transition out of the diner, we
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: get these kind of like you mentioned, cutaways to other stories.
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: And so we have a Zazie Beetz story. And then
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: we have a story with Juno Temple. And then we
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: have a Hayley Lou Richardson story as well. And I
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: wanted your thoughts on doing that to begin with. And
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: then let's talk, you know, whichever one you want to
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: talk about first, specifically, let's just kind of go into that.
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: But what did you think about this kind of story
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: within a story thing? Because I was not expecting that
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: at all.
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: I definitely wasn't expecting it. And I think, like I said,
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: I think that I think there are great things in each.
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: That's kind of why I threw out the Black Mirror.
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: I was like, each of those is almost like its
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: own Black Mirror episode because it picks a different aspect
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: of like a weird technical thing or future society or both.
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: And like it could have been its own separate little
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: 28 minute thing and wrapped up and been taken care
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: of in that. Or we can try to cram them
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: all in this one big thing. And it's like it.
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: They can work and there are good aspects to each
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: one of these stories, but it may just be too much.
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: Like it ends up maybe dragging down the whole of
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: this because there's so much. As much as I like
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: what's in the first two, I feel like you could
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: almost pull both of those side extra things out. The
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: only one we really need by the end is the
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: Hayley Richards. And I will first, I want to pause
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: and say, I don't think there's any movie that's That's
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: not better by adding Haley Richardson to it. Like she
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: is always impressive. Like I like her here, but I
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: think it's just her presence in a movie. I think
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: it's always a plus as far as I'm concerned. So
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: I think that also helps with that's the one that
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: we need, but also just character wise, that's the one
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: that we need by the time we get to the
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: wrap up of this. I think the other aspects are
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: interesting and give us really cool little perspectives and very
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: specific things. comments along the way on the other two,
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: but you could have kind of pulled those threads out
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: and the whole story would still work as much as
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: it's going to work anyway with the time travel of
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: it all.
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: Well, and that's, I think that's my issue with some
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: of those stories is they ultimately feel completely extraneous and
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: they don't serve any narrative. Like the Michael pina and
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: zazie beats story like that is completely undated like completely
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: undated like i i understand why we have it in
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: there so that we can have that moment of payoff
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: later in the movie but that entire story takes far
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: too long to get to that point just to have
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: it be like a kind of MacGuffin within a MacGuffin
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: in the movie.
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: Well, and we've already established like the opening shots of
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: people in the diner, everybody's on their phone. So like
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: we're already making, we're already hammering the people are addicted
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: to their phones point from the beginning. So it's not like, oh,
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: but we need that in there. We're already every step
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: of the way. They've already got that worked in there.
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: So yes, they make it like full on zombie kids
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: by the time we get to their story. But I
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: think even if you took that out, you could still
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: do the, continue through the rest of the movie with
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: people addicted to their phones as part of the problem
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: and it would work without the crazy zombie kids sub
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: story and.
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: That i think for me is the other thing about
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: the I guess zombie kids on their phones.
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: Not the most original thing. Not the most original thing
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: at all.
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: I mean, again, it feels in a lot of ways,
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: it feels like old man shakes cane at cloud.
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: That's the one I thought with that one. Like when
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: they kept making that, like hammering that, you know, you
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: brainwash kids are just staring at your phones all day.
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: That definitely felt like it. I feel like the next
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: sub movie is kind of an interesting and original take
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: on sci-fi properties that don't feel quite as... angry old
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: man but it's still like that one's a little more
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: satire and a little more of this is gonna piss
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: people off like this one is the one that's like
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: edgy because it's gonna rub a lot of people the
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: wrong way but i'm like i'm okay with that because
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: i think it does have something to say and that's
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: it's very silly by the way that it does it
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: sometimes but i think it is making a point and
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: it has a real sci-fi take to what it's doing
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: that is, yeah, a little more developed than in the
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: first one, which is just kids are on their phones
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: all day.
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: Well, and for me, I think that's, Not to sound dismissive,
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: but yeah, it's like, you know, you introduce an idea
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: that sideloads into the other idea that the idea that
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: sideloads into the next idea is not as interesting as
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: the idea it's going into. So you could have cut
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: that story out completely and just addressed it within that
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: story because they address it within that story anyways. We're
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: being drip fed this information like, oh, all these teachers
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: are going on sabbatical.
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: What's the reason behind that?
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: Oh, all these kids are just seemingly like saying taglines
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: for things and like, oh, I would love this, you know,
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: Dunkin Donuts, you know, mocha frappuccino.
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: It's delicious.
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: It comes, you know, it's like it's it's it's live
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: ad reads in real life, like essentially. And that's, you know,
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: that ties into the first thing that they introduced. But
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: it's like belaboring the point by that point.
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: And I'm just like, it does all tie together. I
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: will give them they don't write at all at any point.
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: Every step of the way does tie in along the
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: rest of that story. But like I said, it's just
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: a lot by the time you get to the end
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: of the movie.
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: And for the movie to end the way that it does,
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: it almost feels like a Nana Nana boo boo pulled
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: one over on you the audience like okay, what was
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: the fucking point of this whole movie then? I mean,
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: it's not to say it's, you know, oh, it was
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: all a dream, but I mean, it has that kind
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: of whiff to it. This is kind of the, this
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: is kind of in wrestling, this is the dusty finish.
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: It's like, well, I'm going to have my cake and
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: eat it too. I'm going to have the guy get pinned,
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: but he's not actually going to win the title. It's
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: just going to look like he won the title, but
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: the heel still gets away with the belt because of
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: bullshit or because of, you know, a technicality.
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: And it's like, okay, fine, fine. fuck you then. It's just,
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: I can see someone watching this movie and going, whoa,
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: I really loved the upbeat and hopeful ending. But it's like,
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: I also don't like a movie that seemingly by the
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: end of it, just like, well, I just wasted your
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: time for two and a half hours.
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: Isn't that fun?
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: I was like, I guess, yeah. But that was the
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: complaint people had with The Matrix Reloaded. Literally, the same
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: complaint people were having then. It's kind of part of
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: my complaint now.
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: Well, and then it does... without even almost addressing it,
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: it opens a door along the way and just sort
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: of passes on by that like, That was going to
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: be my question for you is by the end, is
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: it a real, I'm using quotes there, real time loop movie?
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: Or is all of it AI generated? Is he within
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: the program the whole damn time, really? I mean, we
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: don't know. It's not really answered. But like by the end,
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: as much weird shit is going on, you're just like, well, yeah,
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: maybe it doesn't have to be reality at all because
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: nothing that we're watching is reality. That all of this
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: is part of the AI simulation. that he is trapped
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: in and thinks he's in a time loop. I don't
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: really know. But it certainly leaves that door open and
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: then gives you that option to think that if you want,
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: but doesn't really even address it.
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: Well, and I hadn't even thought about it in terms
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: of taking that step further, because like you mentioned, I mean,
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: with the way the film ends, it is almost like,
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: was this whole thing just a, is he already in
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: the AI?
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: And it doesn't even matter. that is one of the possibilities. Again,
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: they do not spell it out for you. No, they don't.
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: And I don't know, I don't know if that's a
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: good or a bad thing.
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: Like, genuinely.
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: And I'm not saying that just to be, you know, dismissive,
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: but it's like, make a fucking decision. In some, well,
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: in some respects, like, is it a nihilistic ending? Is
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: it an upbeat ending? Like, you're not making a choice,
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: that's fine. But, if you're gonna rob us of an
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: actual ending with character growth and development from the characters
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: that we're supposed to feel like we went on an
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: arc with, and then you just reset it at the
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: end of the movie and they're not in on it.
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: But Sam Rockwell is. Sam Rockwell's character is in the
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: same spot he was at the beginning of the film.
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: Like there's no arc for his character. It's like Chris Hansen.
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: But within the story there is.
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: Right. Because he now has a whole new, like he's
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: been doing it essentially wrong for the last 117 times.
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: Like now, according to what he thinks he knows, now
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: he knows the real answer and this is the way
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: to make it work. So like it does reset with
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: a new hopeful spin on it and has like a
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: new growth within the storyline of like this, this weird
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: one-off time led to something that could then fix the
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: problem that he's been doing wrong every step of the way. Again,
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: is it, I don't know. Is any of it real?
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: I don't know. If he's not in a simulation, what
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: the fuck does any of this matters? You know, if,
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: if it's not a simulation, if it is a time
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: loop and he's got a real piece of machinery that
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: keeps sending him back in time, then yes, this is
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: actually kind of a hopeful thing. And there was growth
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: to the story, if not the characters, that like gives
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: you a chance to do something new in the future.
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: But I don't know. Like, again, it doesn't it just
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: sort of lets you decide, which some people hate that
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: in a movie. I know. So I don't know. It
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: gives you both of those options. Like, here they are.
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: Could be either one. So if you want the grim,
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: he's screwed forever ending, you got that one. Or if
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: you want, maybe this is a real thing going on
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: and he can fix it. You have that one, too.
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: Take your pick. Which would you like?
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: I don't have any problem with open-ended films or open
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: endings or ambiguous endings. What I have a problem with
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: is making a decision to do both things so intentionally.
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Where it's like, you know what? Leave a little ambiguity.
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: Because by the way the film ends, I actually don't
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: think that he's in a simulation. By the way, I mean,
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: why would the film show that otherwise?
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: It's one of those things where, like, if you look
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: at films and they're made with intent and it just
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: doesn't exist on its own, it's not an organic creature,
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: it's being made with intent by people who make it.
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: It's the way I look at it.
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: Very rarely does someone in a film show you something
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: and that is not the case. Most of the time
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: they're foreshadowing something that they're setting up intentionally. It's rare
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: is it like they're foreshadowing something and they don't pay
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: that off. We're talking fucking J.J. Abrams and Rian Johnson
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: in Star Wars where that's the case.
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: Anti-payoff.
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: Most films, it's, you know, Chekhov's gun. There's a gun
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: in the first act. In the third act, it's going
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: to go off. This film, I don't know. Like, you
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: can't have both. Because if you have both, it robs
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: the movie of any emotional weight. Because then it's like, well,
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: what did any of this matter anyways?
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: And it's like that.
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: I don't find that to be a satisfying ending. I
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: find that to be a cop-out. That is a cop-out
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: ending in the vein of lazy time travel and multiverse
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: stuff that is just... Doing, you know, it's like those
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: that Spider-Man movie, like, I'm sorry, but I. was just like,
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: this is just fan service. Like, that's all this is.
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: This is like masturbatory with, you know, Andrew Garfield and
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: Tobey Maguire. And they're like, oh, I don't know if
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: they're gonna be in the movie or not. And it's like,
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: oh my fucking God. If there's even a question, they're
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: gonna be in the goddamn movie.
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: I think the aspect of them in there is totally
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: fan service. I think they're still doing interesting things in
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: the rest of that movie, but it's overshadowed completely by the, hey,
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: look who's in this movie of it all. Right.
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: And that's, and for me, this movie kind of has
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: that issue of like it by the end of it
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: it doesn't i don't think it really feels like it
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: has to say anything it's like well it could be
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: either in that fun and it's like i'm not when
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: not when they're both kind of unsatisfying and not really
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: well explained and it's just like well she said that
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: there could be a pug so there's a pug at
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: the end like what does that mean like see that's
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: like all.
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: Of the crazy stuff in the first portion of the
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: ending is ridiculous and seems kind of unsatisfying the wrap
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: back around version that gives you this hopeful well maybe
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: we fixed it if we keep going on this road
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: i actually liked that addition to it and i think
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: maybe if they just stuck with that one it would
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: work like you could still make it a time loop
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: and have him have to start over again but without
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: the crazy stuck in the cg aspect that kicks in
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: so hard at the end of that finale finale that
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: like Without that, I feel like.
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: The other one kind of works on its own. Yeah,
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: it's like again, it's it's like we've already alluded to.
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: There's just so much going on. There's so many ideas
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: like at once. It's like you it's not that you can't.
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: do all of them, but you run the risk by
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: trying to do all of them of not doing any
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: of them very well. And I feel like it's just, again,
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: to go back to like the derivative nature of the
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: film in terms of the tropes and things that it
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: is presenting to us as like, not new, but it's like, wow,
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: Sam Rockwell traveling through time to try to kill AI. Like,
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: where have you ever heard that before? Like, it's like, yeah,
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: fucking Michael Biehn. And Juno Temple is Sarah Connor, like,
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: or Ingrid, I guess, you know, Hayley Richardson is kind
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: of a character split in two, really. Like, it's, I
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: didn't dislike the film. I don't want anyone who's listening
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: to this to think I disliked it. It's just, I
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: have a hard time watching a movie where at every
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: opportunity they have to cement themselves as their own thing,
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: they just defer to something else and something else that
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: I would just rather watch. I would rather watch Terminator
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: than watch this. If you're going to keep referring to Terminator,
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: I'm just going to rather watch Terminator.
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: But this one goes off on those weird subsections that, again,
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: almost I feel like is selling itself short on other
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: a concept. I agree.
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: It's like we don't care about the interesting stuff we've
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: set up. We're going to forego the idea of replacing
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: your children who are killed in school shootings with with
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: a clone of them that is completely fucked up. And
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: then to go even further to, I think the most
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: interesting scene in the entire movie is Juno temple talking
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: to those two parents that are like, well, we were
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: just like, let's make her Muslim. They were like, make
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: her seven feet tall.
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: Let's make a silly.
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: What a fucking missed opportunity, by the way, to not
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: show us that, that person, by the way, I expected
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: them to like walk into frame as it like, you know, like,
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: walk into frame and then cuts away or something.
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: We didn't even get that shot. I was like, are
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: we gonna see this person? No, we didn't. Okay, fine.
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: That was too much. To show us the centaur cat was,
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: that was more important.
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we got that for some reason.
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: Right, but instead, you know, like the thing that you've
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: been setting up for a scene, but that scene I
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: think is the most interesting scene to me because it
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: is a conversation in a film about something I've never
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: heard being had a conversation about that way. And that's
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: like interesting and high concept and novel. And it's just
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: in this movie and this movie does nothing with it.
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: It doesn't even explain it. Like by the end of
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: the movie, I don't understand what it was other than
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: the AI just fucking with them.
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: And that's the, that's the part that I think is
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: really sold short. Cause again, I don't think there's that
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: much to the addicted to their phone sub story. And
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: I think we, finish out you know we kind of
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: have to have the the future story with with hayley
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: further down the line so the only other one is
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: the the cloning school shooting win and i'm like that
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: one is the most satire the most interesting like sci-fi
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: setup and like creates this weird future world of like
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: this is one step away from where we are with
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: you know the The fact that everyone is in and
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: of just the basic how blasé everyone becomes about school shootings. Like, ah,
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: we're on lockdown again. All right, let's go sit in
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: here and be bored and complain about the fact that
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: we're stuck in here. Like that kind of crosses over
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: from one story into the next. But it's like then
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: once you see, OK, now we've gotten so used to
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: it at this point, we're never going to fix the problem.
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: So instead, we're just going to deal with it by
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: cloning your children who keep getting killed. and giving you
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: the option to like electric grandmother them and come in
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: and pick out which one you want. And like, that's,
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: that's a cool concept that like, I feel like is
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: if not its own entire movie, like I said, definitely
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: a full 30 minute episode of black mirror or a
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: subsection of a movie. That's maybe only two things. And like,
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: we really kind of lay into the satire of this
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: as we work into the other half of the story.
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: I feel like there's so much more going on in
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: that second one that could have worked. And we just
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: kind of like work it in as, as like some
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: jokes to lead into a tie in further down the line,
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: but we never really dig into that one the way
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: we should.
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: And that I think, you know, I, I, I totally agree.
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: It's like, why did you, why did you add this
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: in here? If, if ultimately there's no payoff to it
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: when it's such a good idea, when it's such an
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: interesting idea, when that, when, like you said, that idea alone,
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: you could, you could do a Stepford wives riff on that.
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: Cause I mean, it's like Stepford, Stepford wives adjacent.
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: I mean, really.
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: And, and, it's, it, it, it speaks to how does
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: the AI get into the home in this universe, in
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: this world? And we don't even under, we, we barely
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: even get to spend time with that because there's just,
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: what's funny is, you know, I'm sitting here saying like
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: this movie is too long, but it's going to sound crazy.
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: There almost needs to be more movie. Again, it's like
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: three or four movies, right? Because there needs to be
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: more movie.
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: Cause like you can't conclude this story this way because
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: it's so interesting. Like the setup of Juno temple losing
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: her son. And then these group of mom's, themselves being
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: very blasé about it, just being like, well, let's go
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: to this place, and we as the audience don't understand
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: what they're talking about, and neither does Juno Temple, which
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: I don't understand makes no fucking sense, by the way. Like,
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: in this universe where gun shootings at schools are so...
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: that kids are dying four to five times at least.
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: You're telling me this woman who has a kid has
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: never heard of the kid cloning service?
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: It's very secretive. It's very logical jumps. You know, like,
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: if you're gonna, I think of something like The Sixth Day, right?
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: Because that's a conceit in that movie. It's like, clone
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: your dog. clone your pet that died and your kids
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: can never be sad. It's like, okay, it's being advertised.
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: It's a capitalistic fucking thing. Like that makes perfect sense.
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: Like this, if this is a, if this was a
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: real universe in a real world, the way this film
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: is trying to somewhat portray itself, You wouldn't have a
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: character being like, I've never heard of this.
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: What?
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: There's help groups for this shit. What are we doing here?
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: You're telling me that when kids die and they're just
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: replaced with a version of themselves that looks just the
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: way they do, no one's asking questions. It's weird because
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: the film's asking me to take logical jumps with it,
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: but it's not setting out ramps for me to get
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: enough air to clear the fucking Snake River Gap.
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: Well, they've almost like found a way to get themselves
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: out of these scenarios with their own plot line, because
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: it is one of those, if it were to be
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: taken at face value, you'd be like, yeah, this doesn't
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: make any sense. And why wouldn't people know about this?
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: But because they've already interwoven this other story that like,
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: it's all AI. So even that aspect of it is
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: the AI just messing with you, that we're telling you, well,
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: the AI is going to give you twist and turns
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: it's going to give you an interesting plot because it
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: knows that's what you want so it gives you this
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: secret society and the government's kind of covering up but
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: also paying for it but also doing whatever they want
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: because that seems legit anyway because it's the government but
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: it gives itself almost like a fake out of just
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: like well It doesn't make sense because it's not supposed
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: to make sense because it's AI slapping it together. And
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: that's why it's this weird, awkward thing that doesn't make
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: any sense. Which again, sort of makes sense seeing what
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: AI puts together sometimes in the real world. But that's not,
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's a very convenient way to write a screenplay.
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: I was going to say, is that also not just
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: us doing like heavy lifting for screenwriting gone awry? But
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: at the same time, similarly to a film that just
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: came out, Digger... and I won't spoil that film. Not
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: that anybody is going to go see it. Apparently, apparently,
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: which is a shame because I think similarly to this film,
• 46:33
  Speaker 2: it takes the conceit of this film and goes further
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: with it in a lot of ways in terms of
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: like having a thing within a thing.
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: And this film and that.
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: Film, I think succeed and fail in different ways because
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: digger succeeds because it has all those cutaway moments to
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: other things. And we're understanding the world and the setup
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: and they all tie back into each other here. And,
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: I don't want to come back to the main story. Like,
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: I want to stay with Juno Temple through this entire, like,
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: I want to see her story through to the end.
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: And then to have her character's story just end ignominiously. Like,
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: she doesn't die, but she just stops.
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: She's just kind of there.
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: She just stops mattering in the conclusion of the film.
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: It's just, I don't know. It's weird because Hayley Lou
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: Richardson's character is the main character, sort of, but not really.
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: Because she's the Sarah Connor of the film. She becomes
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: the main character, yeah.
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: I have a tough time with a movie like this
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: that's so muddle-headed. Well, and it also presents a whole
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: nother thing that I think is equally as interesting and
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: equally could have been its own movie or definitely its
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: own little episode of something. Because when we get to,
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: because I could care less about the annoying boyfriend character
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: of hers, but the presenting this new game concept that
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: basically is just can I just go live in the
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: VR world? Can I just go to the AI and
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: stay there? That's a really interesting thing. Like that seems
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: like that's, if not an entire movie, a huge section
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: of a movie that you could devote all this time
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: and like kind of give you more of what's going
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: on there and like what this person's sort of wrestling with,
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: because it is a legit question. Like it is by
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: the end, that was the part that I think hit
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: me is like, as they're having that conversation, it's like, Well,
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: if why? Why stay here with all the pain and
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: the horrible things that are going on if you don't
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: have to? If the option is presented to you to
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: just go be happy all the time, well, why wouldn't you?
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: Isn't that half the reason a huge portion of our
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: country is addicted to drugs? It's like a release, an
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: escape from the god-awfulness of this world, even for a
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: little while. Well, this gives you a arguably not safe,
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: but a safe version of it that is just there
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: all the time. You don't have to worry about coming
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: down because you're never coming down because you're in there
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: all the time. And I'm like, that's a real interesting
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: sci-fi situation to throw out there that once again, we
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: just sort of gloss over and it becomes sort of
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: part of the bigger story, but barely. And I think
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: that was also really frustrating. And to go to something
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: that I've been I've taken a break from it.
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: My girlfriend and I have, but I was watching Westworld
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: and there is parts of that show that are directly
• 49:06
  Speaker 2: kind of referencing stuff like this, where it's like the
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: the world of artificial or virtual reality and the world
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: of the real. And where is the line between the two?
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: And what does what do some of those things look
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: like for either? of these kind of separate tracks of
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: things and what does it mean for someone to get
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: like we've already talked about with this movie give up
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: their you know earthly body to just essentially become a
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: brain in a jar or a brain in the you
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: know a brain in the computer i mean that's it's
• 49:34
  Speaker 2: like you said like There are so many interesting ideas
• 49:36
  Speaker 2: here that it's like, oh, it's going to all feed
• 49:38
  Speaker 2: into this one mega AI idea.
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: And it's like, okay. But to what.
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: It's referenced later, but that's about it.
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: To what end?
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: Like, what are you doing with it that hasn't been
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: done or is... novel and creative and interesting because all
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: it seems like to me is they want to tell
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: a story about how bad AI is and how destructive
• 49:58
  Speaker 2: AI is and how we need to have limiters and
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: guardrails on AI and we need to do it before
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: we create it because once you create it, it's kind
• 50:06
  Speaker 2: of too big to fail. It can't be limited.
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: Which again is interesting in this moment in time because
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: that's all that's on TV right now. Yeah, yeah.
• 50:15
  Speaker 2: I mean, that's the conversation that's being had out in
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: the open right now.
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: Every day. Yeah.
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: And so it just, I don't know. It's almost like
• 50:22
  Speaker 2: this movie just feels out of date already, like out
• 50:25
  Speaker 2: of touch already. Like we're already having this conversation movie.
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: This ain't 2030. This ain't 2027 even.
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: This is 2026.
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: This is only October of 2026. And AI has only
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: really been commercially available to the public. in a consumer
• 50:39
  Speaker 2: capacity for like a year now, not even another year.
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: Well, I'll be dead. So we don't need to worry
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: about 20. I mean, really?
• 50:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Like, I mean, that's essentially what they're saying is like,
• 50:47
  Speaker 2: you know, once it hits an exponential growth point, there
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: will be no way of doing anything. It will be,
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: it will be too much, too far, too gone. And
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: it's like, yeah, I don't, I don't sit here and
• 50:57
  Speaker 2: think like, Oh, Skynet is going to happen. But If
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: all the AI is connected to each other and making
• 51:01
  Speaker 2: decisions in and of itself and it can self-actualize, then
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: it's no different. Maybe it's not bloodthirsty, but I don't think... And,
• 51:08
  Speaker 2: you know, I think it was you and I that
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: talked about this. Ultron in Age of Ultron, when he
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: got on the internet, was like, yo, fuck these fucking people.
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: Fucking humanity needs to go. And it's like, yeah.
• 51:18
  Speaker 2: I don't think AI would have any sympathy for humans
• 51:20
  Speaker 2: if it saw what we've done to one another.
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: I don't really. To one another, to the environment. I'm
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: technically a human, but.
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: It's like, yeah, AI that's making decisions based primarily on
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: numbers and binary decision-making processes is... It's going to look
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: at humans and go, this planet is better off without
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: them because we have made this place worse in a
• 51:43
  Speaker 2: lot of ways by the need to exist in a
• 51:47
  Speaker 2: certain way. Continuing, we have made things worse. You know,
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: I think about a movie that I enjoy so much
• 51:52
  Speaker 2: more than this one that has the same kind of
• 51:54
  Speaker 2: feel to it in terms of the kind of message
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: it's getting at. Didn't Simon Pegg and Edgar Wright do
• 51:59
  Speaker 2: this already with The World's End?
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of other stuff at
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: play there, but it's, I mean, that's the thing. I really,
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: and it was one of those that didn't hit me
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: that first time. Like, I had to revisit that and went, oh, no,
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: I think this might be the best of his trilogy there. Like,
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: everybody loves Shaun of the Dead, and so do I. But, like,
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: it's a much more mature movie. Like, it is telling
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: a much more interesting and mature story than you get
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: with Shaun of the Dead is just dealing about a
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: guy who doesn't want to grow up, essentially. Whereas this
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: is several years later, and it's Edgar Wright and Simon
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: Pegg and everyone involved just being like, no, this is
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: what happens when you have to grow up. And it
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: is a way more interesting story, and it does kind
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: of touch on some of these points. Again, I think
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: it's a little more focused, and maybe that's why it
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: works better, where this is a scattershot of sci-fi ideas,
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: and that's why it's hard to latch on to the
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: right ones that you need to be a satisfying story it's.
• 52:56
  Speaker 2: I mean again i i give credit to edgar wright
• 52:58
  Speaker 2: who i think is a much better screenwriter than the
• 53:00
  Speaker 2: screenwriter of this film i i i think edgar wright
• 53:03
  Speaker 2: actually reads his script once or twice before he submits
• 53:06
  Speaker 2: it i'm not saying this guy doesn't but this seems
• 53:08
  Speaker 2: like this seems like a first draft like there's so
• 53:11
  Speaker 2: much of this that it is like strike through strike
• 53:14
  Speaker 2: through strike through strike through strike through strike through like
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: too many characters Too many cutaway scenes. Too many endings.
• 53:22
  Speaker 2: Ambiguous ending that serves nothing that the film set up.
• 53:26
  Speaker 2: How much more... Decide on one fucking thing, dude.
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 53:30
  Speaker 2: The problem I have is if you want to do
• 53:32
  Speaker 2: a thing that Sam Rockwell... being the crypt keeper in
• 53:35
  Speaker 2: a time travel anthology multiverse anthology movie i'm down for
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: that but that's not even what this is like that's
• 53:42
  Speaker 2: it is but it isn't like.
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: But it focuses too much on the story for it
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: to really do that right so like we don't get
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: enough time with the sub stories so those don't work
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: but then it spends too much time on those so
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: we don't really get enough on the wraparound story to
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: make it satisfying either so they're like at at odds
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: with each other And for me, that is such a
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: missed opportunity because to go back to the first thing
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: we were talking about, and I think like the thing
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: that for me is the reason I would, and I
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: did say, you know, go check this film out, Sam Rockwell.
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: And that's, I'm not going to say that's it, but
• 54:16
  Speaker 2: he does so much of the heavy lifting in the movie.
• 54:19
  Speaker 2: And I think that the other reason the movie kind
• 54:21
  Speaker 2: of peters out towards the end is as the film
• 54:24
  Speaker 2: goes on, Sam Rockwell's in it less. As the film
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: goes on, we're cutting away to other things that have
• 54:28
  Speaker 2: nothing to do with Sam Rockwell. And- none of those
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: things as good as the actors are in those scenes
• 54:33
  Speaker 2: are nearly, are nearly as engaging as that first 15
• 54:37
  Speaker 2: minutes of Sam Rockwell is like nothing, nothing the film
• 54:40
  Speaker 2: does is nearly as engaging as his opening monologue, which
• 54:42
  Speaker 2: is just, again, makes it feel more like an anthology thing.
• 54:45
  Speaker 2: Cause anthology things, the ones that are middle of the
• 54:48
  Speaker 2: road to bad have a really good concept and then
• 54:50
  Speaker 2: just flounder for the rest of the time and just
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: kind of flail and grab out and reach out at
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: anything that they can to try to bring in as
• 54:57
  Speaker 2: many and all this is interesting.
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: And this is interesting.
• 54:59
  Speaker 2: Like, pick one fucking thing. Like don't do eight things, please.
• 55:03
  Speaker 2: Jack of all trades, master of none.
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: Come on. That's kind of how we come into this. Yeah.
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: Cause there's a lot of ideas thrown out there and it's,
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: it's just, it, it doesn't give you enough time and
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: it's very varied in the way it's like, there's some
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: very grim moments in this. And then there's a lot
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: of comedy too. So that's what I was going to
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: ask you is how do you feel like with the
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: amount of comedy? Cause it's, Almost a full on comedy
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: at times. But then there's also some really grim stuff
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: along the way. Certainly the bigger points. So I don't know.
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: It's a weird balance or attempting to be a balance
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: between the two.
• 55:40
  Speaker 2: I think the comedic bits work because Sam Rockwell is,
• 55:45
  Speaker 2: I think, just such a quirky, fun and interesting actor.
• 55:48
  Speaker 2: that anytime he's doing anything, you're just kind of like, oh,
• 55:51
  Speaker 2: this is kind of fun and upbeat. And, you know,
• 55:53
  Speaker 2: even if he's, I mean, even in something, I mean, again,
• 55:55
  Speaker 2: not to say like, oh, his character in Three Billboards
• 55:57
  Speaker 2: is like fun or anything, but his character in that
• 56:00
  Speaker 2: movie is like, I'm not a huge fan of that movie,
• 56:02
  Speaker 2: which is unfortunate because I really like Martin McDonagh's other works,
• 56:05
  Speaker 2: but he's my favorite part of them because his character
• 56:08
  Speaker 2: is just, again, he's really playing against type in that movie.
• 56:11
  Speaker 2: But at the same time, it's like you empathize with
• 56:13
  Speaker 2: that character in terms of just like him being a
• 56:15
  Speaker 2: fucking moron. Because it's Sam Rockwell. It's the internal mechanism
• 56:21
  Speaker 2: of Sam Rockwell being just an empathetic, interesting, and engaging actor.
• 56:25
  Speaker 2: And they knew that when they cast him. That was intentional.
• 56:29
  Speaker 2: They needed someone who could carry this movie on their back.
• 56:32
  Speaker 2: And a lot of the comedy comes from his dialogue
• 56:35
  Speaker 2: and his responses and his kind of retorts to what
• 56:38
  Speaker 2: other people are saying.
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: And yeah, that works.
• 56:40
  Speaker 2: But then you have this really grim, dark stuff going
• 56:43
  Speaker 2: on that, again, feels like another movie. It feels like another...
• 56:47
  Speaker 2: Thing entirely and that's not to say like Sam Rockwell
• 56:49
  Speaker 2: didn't come from a future where people are getting like
• 56:51
  Speaker 2: butt fucked by robots or God knows what like he
• 56:54
  Speaker 2: he hints at what's going on but we never see
• 56:56
  Speaker 2: it he talks about the way the future is but
• 56:59
  Speaker 2: we never see it I mean you know in Terminator
• 57:01
  Speaker 2: we see that. we see the foot crushing the skull
• 57:03
  Speaker 2: and it's like, oh shit.
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: Like, okay, like this is the closest, the closest we
• 57:07
  Speaker 1: get is him as a kid in the bunker. And
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: we get like the little drone type thing that's, you know,
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: got rockets built in, but that's about as close as
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: we get as the exoskeleton step on skulls. Yeah.
• 57:18
  Speaker 2: Which I mean, again, you know, I didn't need that,
• 57:20
  Speaker 2: but it, again, it just, it cuts to this idea
• 57:24
  Speaker 2: of the film is, I wouldn't consider the Terminator a comedy,
• 57:27
  Speaker 2: but I would consider the Terminator in terms of the
• 57:30
  Speaker 2: kind of film that it is. very similar to this
• 57:32
  Speaker 2: film in terms of what it's doing it's just this
• 57:34
  Speaker 2: is the like comedic version of the terminator imagine if
• 57:37
  Speaker 2: michael bean was a little bit lighter hearted and a
• 57:40
  Speaker 2: little bit less because it's a time loop thing sam
• 57:44
  Speaker 2: rockwell's fed up and the fed up nature is kind
• 57:47
  Speaker 2: of what powers his back and forth with all the
• 57:49
  Speaker 2: characters it's this like you've said it's this exasperation like
• 57:53
  Speaker 2: this is the 117th fucking time i have to do
• 57:55
  Speaker 2: this like jesus and again I think they could have
• 57:58
  Speaker 2: sold that more. Hell, we could have seen another loop completely. Like,
• 58:01
  Speaker 2: I don't know why this needed to be the only one. Like,
• 58:04
  Speaker 2: that's the other thing. Like, what a missed opportunity to
• 58:06
  Speaker 2: show us a little bit of that. Again, I know
• 58:08
  Speaker 2: why they didn't, because they want to have all these
• 58:10
  Speaker 2: reveals and it's like, you know, if you have a
• 58:13
  Speaker 2: movie with time travel and you have flashback scenes. where
• 58:16
  Speaker 2: you're not showing a character, that's intentional, because it's one
• 58:18
  Speaker 2: of the characters that we've already seen, clearly. Again, the
• 58:22
  Speaker 2: movie thinks it's being clever, and it's just not. And
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: I'm not trying to be like Mr. Teardown, things that
• 58:27
  Speaker 2: are trying to be clever that aren't, but it's like,
• 58:28
  Speaker 2: in this day and age, I'm a smarter audience than
• 58:31
  Speaker 2: I think you're giving me credit for.
• 58:33
  Speaker 1: Because I think any.
• 58:35
  Speaker 2: Audience watching this movie would be like, one of these
• 58:36
  Speaker 2: characters has got to be Sam Rockwell's mom.
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: Well, I think it also it's giving you that option
• 58:43
  Speaker 1: of like because he never he never hits the button.
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: So it gives you the game to play the whole
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: way through is like, is he just a crazy homeless man?
• 58:53
  Speaker 1: Because we never see that thing do anything. It's just
• 58:55
  Speaker 1: he just keeps his thumb poised above the button the
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: whole time as a threat, because initially it's supposed to
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: be a bomb and then it's going to be, oh,
• 59:02
  Speaker 1: it's going to send him back in time. And by
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: the end, you're just like, so if he hits that
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: and it just does nothing because it's nothing. He's just
• 59:09
  Speaker 1: a criminal. homeless man.
• 59:10
  Speaker 2: But even the movie didn't leave any ambiguity for that.
• 59:14
  Speaker 2: That's the problem. If it wanted to do that, I
• 59:16
  Speaker 2: would have been totally on board. If that's the direction
• 59:19
  Speaker 2: the film wanted to go, where by the end of it,
• 59:21
  Speaker 2: it's like, was he just fucking nutsoid the whole time?
• 59:23
  Speaker 2: But we see him go back in time. Like we
• 59:25
  Speaker 2: see him go back in time. We see, and finally,
• 59:28
  Speaker 2: let's mention just the, Fucking one of the worst things
• 59:31
  Speaker 2: I've seen in a movie in terms of CGI. A
• 59:33
  Speaker 2: centaur cat?
• 59:34
  Speaker 1: A giant cat cock? Do we want to just, you
• 59:37
  Speaker 1: got to go ahead and just address what happens before
• 59:39
  Speaker 1: the end. Because I thought it was silly the first
• 59:41
  Speaker 1: time I saw it. But by the time we got
• 59:43
  Speaker 1: to that, I was like, OK, now you're just doing
• 59:45
  Speaker 1: it to weird people out like that's just because I
• 59:48
  Speaker 1: even like I try not to look too much at
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: people's comments in the on the online stuff. But there
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: were a lot that were just like I liked everything
• 59:56
  Speaker 1: in the movie except for that. It was so too
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: far for a lot of people that it was like
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 1: and I was almost at that point, too. I was
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: just like, yeah, I'm OK with a lot of the
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 1: weird things you're throwing in along the way because they
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 1: all feel like they're of this same universe. as scattered
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 1: as it is but that one is just like okay
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 1: now it's just silly for the sake of silly and
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: it's not like the other ones are at least kind
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 1: of a clever satire even if they're a little off
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: but like this is just ridiculous and over the top
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 1: for the sake of being ridiculous and over the top
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: and i'm like that's i i don't know what you're
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 1: trying to prove like we know you're already a well
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 1: established filmmaker we know who you are we know who
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 1: you're capable of you don't have to like try to
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 1: get people's attention. Like, they know what's possible in this movie.
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: That doesn't mean you have to do every dumb thing
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 1: that you've mentioned along the way.
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 2: Well, and they clearly can show restraint when they didn't
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 2: show that seven-foot-tall Muslim woman that they allude to in
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 2: that entire scene. I mean, it's such a bummer because
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 2: that scene is such an interesting idea. Like, well, these parents...
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 2: that have had this kid rebooted eight times now, by
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 2: the end of it, they're just like, we don't even
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 2: fucking care anymore. Like, it's just a fucking lark at
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 2: this point. Like, that's interesting. Those people are literal sociopaths.
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: Like, it's... Yeah.
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 2: They just seem like a full-on monster by the end
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 2: of that story. Yeah, it's like, okay, like, what, why
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 2: are we cutting away from this? Like, give me more
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 2: of that. And it's like, nope, we're not even going
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 2: to show you the character that they're talking about. And
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 2: I'm like, hold on a second here. If you know
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 2: how to practice restraint there, why didn't you practice restraint
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 2: at the end of the movie? And again, again, it
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 2: goes back to something else where it's fucking Ghostbusters. Then
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 2: it's like, well, don't think of anything. Don't say anything
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 2: out loud. Because if you do, oh, it's just a
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 2: pug or it's a giant six foot tall cat.
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 1: Like, oh, okay. So now we're going to see it. Like, oh, great.
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 1: It's Ghostbusters.
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 2: I mean, then it's again, it's like copying from something
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 2: else that again, did that thing way more interesting, way
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 2: more compelling. And again, felt novel when it did it.
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 2: When this does, it's just like, oh, that's like the
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 2: Ghostbusters riff.
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 1: Okay. Well, I even, I remember, and it's funny because
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 1: now I barely can remember this because it's so ingrained
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 1: in pop culture now. But I remember the first time
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 1: through watching Ghostbusters and thinking, wow, this is sort of
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 1: silly and above and beyond everything else we've had in
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: a totally different type of thing. It's a different silly
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 1: mode that we haven't seen. Like Slimer's funny, but Slimer
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 1: fits with what's going on. this is a giant marshmallow man.
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 1: What are we doing now? And like, eventually that went
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 1: away because I saw it a million more times and
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 1: it is funny and it is clever, but it, it
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 1: is the one thing that doesn't exactly fit with everything
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 1: else going on there. And I think you get a
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 1: lot of that by the time you jump to that
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 1: second one. And like, we get a repeat with the
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 1: statue of liberty and you're like, wait, what are we
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 1: doing in this movie? So like, I, I remember having
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 1: that response. So it's not like Ghostbusters is just like
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 1: this perfect film. Like I remember thinking the same thing
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 1: about that. And that's the thing.
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 2: I have always bought into the Stay Puft Marshmallow Man
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 2: in Ghostbusters, but I think, and I think I know why.
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 2: I think it's because the way that they set it up.
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 2: You have the Stay Puft bag early in the movie,
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 2: which again, like if you're watching it for the first time,
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 2: that is literally has no importance to you because Stay
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 2: Puft's not a real brand in the real world, but
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 2: they foreshadow it. early on in Dana Barrett's apartment. And
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 2: for me, it works as a reveal because we have
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 2: Dan Aykroyd narrating the reveal as it's happening. And that's
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 2: why it is a great reveal. And then that's why
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 2: it works. It's because again, like Dan Aykroyd's like, it
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 2: was the first thing that came to mind. I couldn't
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 2: stop myself. And it's like, as opposed to just saying
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 2: horse shit out loud and trying to will it into existence,
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 2: which just seems, in terms of the world that this
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 2: film is set up, wildly negligent.
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 1: And doesn't really matter. Like, at least there, like, it
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 1: is the... the big grand finale and it is part
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 1: of the setup of what's going on in that final
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 1: scene it's earned it makes sense is the protector like
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 1: that you know that it has that power to do
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 1: that this is just like hey i can do all
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 1: kinds of weird crap want to see and that's that's.
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 2: All it felt like ai can do anything we get
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 2: it like that that's the conceit and it's like yeah
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 2: i i know.
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 1: I know we've seen bad artwork before we don't need
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 1: to see your bad artwork yeah like Well, and that's, again, like,
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 1: to go back to what you said of, like, well,
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 1: the conceit could be that it's, like, you know, we're
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 1: not necessarily, like, trying to say that the movie's all AI,
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 1: and it's trying to be AI, and it's trying to echo.
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 2: AI, but it's like, okay, like, you could say that, sure.
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 2: I just don't know how.
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 1: I don't know how lazy and convenient that is, you know?
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 1: It seems pretty lazy.
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 2: And very convenient, in my approximation.
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 1: So... I don't know.
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 2: And that's kind of the concerning thing with a movie
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 2: like this is, you know, looking at the response to it,
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 2: overwhelmingly positive. People really seemed to enjoy this, which I'm
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 2: not saying I didn't enjoy it, but I think other
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 2: people enjoyed it more than I did, which makes me wonder,
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 2: have we forgotten about a lot of these like pop
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 2: culture things that mattered or do they not matter anymore
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 2: because they've undone their own legacy, which I do think
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 2: is fair. To speak to the Terminator of it all,
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 2: like Terminator for me would show up on a very
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 2: short list of film franchises that have fucked themselves out
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 2: of relevancy in a really shocking way. Like it also
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 2: like the universe would have.
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 1: Collapsed upon itself by the second or third time through.
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 1: Like they've gone through so many times now in every
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 1: different offshoot version and reset the world so many times
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 1: that I'm like, yeah, there's no way the universe wouldn't
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 1: just completely collapse. just collapse upon itself just out of
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 1: sheer oh my god these humans are horrible whatever powers
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 1: that be are running things to be like no no
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 1: we got to start over let's noah this bitch because
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 1: we need to start over these people are annoying.
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 2: And that and that i think for me is that's
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 2: the i don't know it's just it's so antithetical to
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 2: what i perceive as a story worth telling because terminator
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 2: is there doesn't need to be anything past that first movie,
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 2: you know? And again, like to speak to the alien
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 2: aliens of it all, obviously, because, you know, alien is
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 2: Ridley Scott. Aliens is James Cameron. Terminator is James Cameron.
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 2: Terminator 2 is James Cameron. But Terminator and Terminator 2
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 2: are very similar to alien aliens in terms of the
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 2: tone being so different.
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 1: For me.
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 2: Terminator just, it gilded the lily one too many times. Like,
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 2: you didn't need a third one, let alone a second one.
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 2: And the fact that the second one is so good
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 2: is a testament to James Cameron as a filmmaker, more
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 2: so than anything else. I mean, like, yes, Arnold is
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 2: a very charismatic actor, but James Cameron knows how to
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 2: write a compelling script. James Cameron knows how to make
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 2: an interesting sci-fi film. He's done it plenty of times
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 2: until he stopped doing it with Avatar. And that's why
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 2: it's such a bummer he doesn't do anything other than
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 2: these goddamn Avatar movies anymore, because I know the films
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 2: that he makes. That are compelling and interesting. And Avatar
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 2: is not one of them, but Terminator and Terminator 2
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 2: and Aliens, they are. And he knows sci-fi. And Terminator
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 2: is just one of those franchises where it's like, it
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 2: should never have continued when James Cameron left. Well, it just, well,
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 2: it was a moneymaker for one.
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 1: But also the reason two works is because he also,
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 1: like he's commenting on his own thing. Like he found, well,
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 1: what if I do an entire different take on the
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 1: basic same idea I just had? And like that was
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 1: enough to carry an entire second movie. And especially when
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 1: you throw in all the new different, specifically technological stuff,
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 1: he all of a sudden, you know, you just from
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 1: one movie to the next, you see that huge leap
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 1: forward in technology is as much as I love the
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 1: artwork in that first world. again, the artwork that is
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 1: a fake version of Arnold's face that still looks like
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 1: a fake version of Arnold's face, but it's so damn cool.
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 1: But you jump forward even just a few years to
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 1: what's going on. And again, working in some CG for
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 1: you and like it, it makes a whole new plateau
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 1: for you to go run around on and delivers a
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 1: whole new movie where after this, like, three four and
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 1: on like it's just yeah it's the same stuff we've
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 1: seen before only not as good and look you know
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 1: you set the bar super high with your own films
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 1: what do you want lee it's you know similar to
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 1: alien and aliens like alien three had nowhere to go
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 1: but down because alien and aliens are such like high
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 1: water marks and again i you know it it's it's
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 1: hard and that's that's the thing about terminator it's you
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 1: know it's how many movies are we at now like
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 1: fucking five Jesus Christ. And I have fun with several
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 1: of the more recent weird offshoots. They're not terrible, but
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 1: they're just fucking weird. Just for entertainment reasons. Yeah, they
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 1: don't need to exist, but I try to enjoy them
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 1: for what they are as they continue, and they do continue.
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 1: Because there's what?
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 2: There's been three, and then there was four, which was Salvation.
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 1: Where's the weird one-off that doesn't really fit the rest
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 1: of the mold? To quote that one, da-da-da-da-da. I mean,
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 1: that's the best thing to come out of that movie.
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 1: It really is. Oh, good for you. And how was it?
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 1: Kick your fucking ass. Like, it's good God.
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 2: Christian Bale, Just, you know what they say? Christian Bale,
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 2: a serious actor. Um, and then there was what? There
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 2: was five, which was the, was that the one with,
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 2: was that the one with five Jason eyes or Jason
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 2: Clark where it's John Connor is a robot or is
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 2: that six or are there seven of these?
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 1: How many goddamn movies are there? I like the one
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 1: that's got, uh, what's her face? Face from Game of
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 1: Thrones that Sarah Connor. I can't remember which number that is.
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 1: Is that five or six? I think that's five. I
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 1: think that's five. And then Dark Fate, I think, is
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 1: the one that has the blonde girl that comes back
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 1: as the new Terminator. Right, that's the one with Sarah Connor.
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 1: And has Sarah Connor back. Yeah. So yeah, it is.
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 1: Or we might have missed one in the middle. No, no,
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 1: that's all of them.
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 2: There is shockingly only two after Salvation. I swear to God,
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 2: I thought there were three of those fucking movies. Well,
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 2: the other one's already in the works.
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 1: Don't you worry. It's not a film. It is a
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 1: anime series. So we've also. overlooked the fact there was
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 1: also a TV series in the middle of all that
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 1: TV series I actually enjoyed a fair amount because Lena
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 1: Headey was great Summer Glau like coming off of what was.
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 2: Like right after Serenity I'm pretty sure I think she
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 2: looks like like literally why she got that job man
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 2: they were patting themselves on the back when they did
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 2: a girl Terminator in the most recent movie it's like
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 2: they fucking did it already they literally already did yeah
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 2: yeah technically yeah that's fair but a good girl Terminator
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 2: not a naughty girl Terminator.
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 1: So And then they did the thing with... Summer was good, yeah.
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and then they did the... Oh, my fucking God.
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 2: Let's spoil the twist of our movie in the trailer
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 2: with John Connor being a robot, which, again, like, Emilia.
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 1: Clarke, I just want to die.
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 2: She's... Her track record with films is not great.
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 1: Like.
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 2: And frankly, a lot of stuff post-Game of Thrones. I mean,
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 2: I think of that MCU Secret War show, and I'm
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 2: just like, why?
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 1: I mean, that Dark Phoenix movie was great. I don't
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 1: know what you're talking about. Oh, for fuck's sake.
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 2: I thought that would win you over. You know what's
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 2: so fucked up? I completely fucking forgot that that movie existed.
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 1: I think everyone did. It's fine. Yeah.
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 2: Is Emilia Clarke in that movie?
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 1: No, but the other girl. Oh, Jessica Chastain. No. Who? Who?
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 1: She is, she's the Dark Phoenix. Oh, oh, oh, oh,
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 1: Sophie Turner. Yeah. Yeah, good God. I thought that's where
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 1: you were going. Oh, no, but I mean, fuck. I
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 1: thought you were doing just anyone who came from Game
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 1: of Thrones. I don't think anybody from Game of Thrones
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 1: has made a good movie, frankly. I thought that's what
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 1: you were saying.
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 2: You got Peter Dinklage, whose movies aren't getting released until
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 2: they're forced to be released. You have Emilia Clarke, who's
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 2: in one of the, I mean, again, it's all of
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 2: the Terminator movies after the second one are pretty bad.
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 2: it's just the varying degrees of bad but i don't
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 2: think anything is you mentioned dark phoenix.
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 1: I straight up forgot that movie existed i.
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 2: Was watching a youtuber talking about those x-men movies like
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 2: the the post post uh days of future past ones
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 2: or i guess the the the sequel trilogy and i
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 2: was like and he was like and then in dark
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 2: phoenix i was like wait wasn't that the movie with
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 2: apocalypse like no there was a movie after apocalypse i
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 2: was like oh what like i I don't, maybe I
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 2: covered it.
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 1: I don't remember.
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 2: I think I was just like, I watched apocalypse. That
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 2: movie was terrible. I cannot do this any further.
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 1: That's the thing. I went back and rewatched apocalypse in
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 1: the last like year or so. And I was like, wow, comparatively,
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 1: this is not bad compared to where we go after this.
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 1: I was like, this is kind of novel. Now I'm
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 1: looking back at this going, well, I mean, I see
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 1: what they were going for at least here. And this
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 1: seems good, but yeah, you don't really have that at
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 1: all in dark Phoenix.
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 2: And it's like I said, I fucking straight up forgot
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 2: that that movie existed. And it's, you know, which is
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 2: a shame because I'm such a huge Michael Fassbender fan.
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 2: like fan of like everything he does and i'm sure
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 2: even he can't save that movie like.
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah i mean he's the best you got there but
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 1: that's not saying much in that movie.
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 2: No that's the one where jennifer lawrence just dies like
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 2: immediately right that was her deal essentially she's like i
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 2: don't want to be in this goddamn shit he pulled
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 2: a harrison ford it was like i'll come back but
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 2: only if you kill me if you kill me pretty
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 2: early on i will come back No, Freddy's not dead.
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 2: Freddy's not dead, I swear. Like, all right, kill Kincaid
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 2: off in the first five minutes of this fucking movie
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 2: right now.
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 1: Like, we don't want him in this.
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 2: Like, okay, got it. Like I said, I completely forgot.
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 2: But again, those movies have time travel. Fucking movies exist
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 2: because of time travel. Like, it's... When you introduce time
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 2: travel into your franchise, unless it's built around time travel,
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 2: like the Terminator, it's... it can get irritating. And I
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 2: think that this movie does not do the irritating time travel,
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 2: but I just.
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 1: Well, it doesn't use it at all. Yeah.
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 2: It doesn't... I mean, it uses it in, I think,
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 2: the most interesting way.
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 1: The presentation of it all. Yeah.
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 2: It's interesting the way that they use it. It's like, okay, well,
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 2: we're going to have it be referenced but not shown.
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 2: He's going to have information ahead of time. And that's
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 2: going to affect the plot, but we're not going to
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 2: see like the time traveling and anything.
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 1: It's like, okay. It's still going to be questionable the
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 1: whole way through. There's still a little doubt of like,
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 1: maybe this guy's just crazy. So yeah.
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 2: And I wanted there to be more of that. And
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 2: I wanted there to be less of like all these
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 2: side tangents that are ultimately go nowhere. And again, like
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 2: even with Juno Temple's character, like her character by the
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 2: end of it, I'm just like, sure like all right
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 2: like what journey did you go on like ultimately the
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 2: film even says like there is there is no point
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 2: to any of this is what it feels like and
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 2: i i don't know if in a film about ai
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 2: if that's the message you want to leave the audience
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 2: with because that's kind of the message i left the
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 2: film with.
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 1: Because the characters themselves are being strung along through this
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 1: story by the end of it so you as the
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 1: audience member kind of feel like so are you because
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 1: it's like i said it's it's giving specifically with her character,
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 1: it's giving her all these things to lead her where
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 1: she needs to go so that the plot can happen. Essentially,
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 1: like it gives her the business cards, which look kind
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 1: of cool. And like, you don't know what the hell
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 1: it means at the moment. So I'm like, oh, this
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 1: could lead to something cool, but it's just a conveyance
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 1: to get us to that thing, whatever the next thing is.
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 1: And the same thing is when the, dad gives her
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 1: the like earpiece that lets her talk to her real
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 1: son which again I guess the more you dig into
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 1: it never really exists it's still just the computer messing
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 1: with her and trying to get her to come to
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 1: the finale of the movie which is what we need
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 1: to get to the finale of the movie. So that's
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 1: the thing. I feel like there's so much good in
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 1: this movie. But the more I dig into it, the
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 1: more it all just falls apart. Like everything I find
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 1: that I like leads to something else that makes the
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 1: whole of it all weaker and weaker. I totally was
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 1: lost on one end, but it kept recording the other.
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 1: So it might be there. But just in case, I
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 1: think that's what I found. almost frustrating with this movie
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 1: is like the more you get into it there's really
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 1: good stuff there but now specifically in doing something like
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 1: this the more i dig into it the more it
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 1: falls apart and the more like i want to like
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 1: the things along the way the more you go over
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 1: it and the more you try to break it down
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 1: there's less and less to it it's kind of it's
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 1: almost close to nothing by the time you're done digging
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 1: through it all and piecing together, oh, well, this doesn't
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 1: really work and this doesn't really work. But like the
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 1: first run through, I feel like I like this movie.
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 1: And like going back to watch it, I found a
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 1: lot more problems. And the more I got ready to
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 1: talk about it, I found more problems. And now in
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 1: this conversation, I found a lot more problems. So the
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 1: more you dig into it, the more it tears this
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 1: movie apart.
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 2: And I think that, you know, and again, I don't
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 2: think that every film needs to sit and hold up
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 2: under intense amounts of scrutiny. Like I don't, I don't
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 2: think every intent of every filmmaker is to make a
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 2: film that's, you know, water, waterproof and airtight. Like I don't,
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 2: I don't perceive that because I know that not everybody
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 2: works that way. Myself included, like that's not the way
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 2: everybody works. But if you're going to spend this much
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 2: money in this much time and all of this, all
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 2: of this effort, it should at least be a tad
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 2: more compelling in terms of the plot then it ends
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 2: up being.
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 1: And also if he was one of those directors that
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 1: was knocking out like two movies a year, but it's
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 1: been like eight years, man. Like you've got a lot
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 1: of time to kind of pick your project and make
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 1: sure it is pretty tightly put together. And I know
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 1: he didn't write the screenplay, but that's one of those like, okay,
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 1: but you're taking on this project. So like either go
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 1: over to get, that's the thing. Like you said, the
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 1: first draft, like I feel like if you just gave
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 1: this to somebody else, and was like, hey, give this
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 1: thing a pass. See if you can tighten up some
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 1: of this stuff. That's all it would take, maybe, to
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 1: knock out some of these problems and make it, all
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 1: of these things, a little tighter knit so that it
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 1: all works a little better. Because that's the thing. There's
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 1: such great ideas in there, but it's like it really
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 1: did need somebody else to go through and try to
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 1: tighten up the holes in it and try to make
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 1: it something that works a little better. But Yeah, I
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 1: feel like that's also part of it is knowing what
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 1: a talent the director he is and knowing it had
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 1: been that long before he came back to do another movie.
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 1: I would think he would he would put a little
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 1: more effort into just kind of making sure everything worked
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 1: on a basic level.
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 2: So that's the next kind of part of this conversation.
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 2: I wanted to have thoughts on Gore Verbinski as a director,
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 2: because like you said, I mean, it has been quite
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 2: some time since he directed a film and there was
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 2: a time where he was There was a lot of
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 2: Gore Verbinski for quite some time, because if you are
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 2: not aware as to what films I'm alluding to, 2003, 2006,
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 2: and 2007, Pirates of the Caribbean 1, 2, and 3,
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 2: some of the biggest, highest grossing films of all time
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 2: at that point, up until when the MCU happens. Films
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 2: in the mid-2000s were dominated by fucking pirate movies because
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 2: of this guy, which is insane. Talk about a genre
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 2: that had been More or less forgotten in terms of
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 2: having and not only forgotten, but also deemed unprofitable by,
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 2: I would say, Hollywood writ large as an industry hook.
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 2: Cutthroat Island being good examples of even when people who
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 2: are talented can't land the ship. And then you have
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 2: Gore Verbinski making three immensely. profitable pirate films in the
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 2: mid 2000s.
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, those are their own issue. I feel like, um, I,
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 1: my go-to, like, I still kind of think of them as,
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 1: you know, making the ring and, I stand by the
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 1: ring is a solid movie, especially being that it was
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 1: handed off from another movie. So like, it's rare that
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 1: you get one that's that good. That is just trying
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 1: to reinterpret someone else's movie, but he did a great
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 1: job on the ring. So I guess that's what got
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 1: that foot in the door to turn around and make
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 1: this pirate movie. And yeah, It's weird because I was
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 1: just talking about these on a recent episode on my show,
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 1: but like because that first movie works and I feel
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 1: like it works relatively well as a pirate movie, but
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 1: it's also kind of all I needed. And like it
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 1: ruined a perfectly good actor in the process with what
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 1: is a good performance, but it also destroyed the entire
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 1: rest of his career as far as I'm concerned. Because
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 1: now I don't want to see him in anything. So
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 1: just all he does is just chew scenery now. Why
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 1: do you feel that way about Orlando Bloom? Well, because
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 1: he's got that goofy... Oh, anyway, wait. Right. Who would
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 1: say that? Like... That guy. People love that. But yeah,
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 1: I don't know. It's just otherwise it also just kind
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 1: of comes back to the well. And that's what I
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 1: was just saying is I also need to revisit two
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 1: because I feel like I saw two in the theater
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 1: and wasn't thrilled with it. But I know people who
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 1: stand by two and three as solid, really impressive Gore
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 1: Verbinski movies. So. Maybe I'll go back and watch them again.
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know. I just got burnt
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 1: out on that first one and that character that was
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 1: shoved down our throats for the next 20 years or
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 1: whatever it's been now. Yeah. So other than that, you know,
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 1: I didn't get to Rango. I've heard really good things
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 1: on Rango. Rango is amazing.
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 2: I really I would say if that is one that
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 2: you have not gotten a chance to check out and
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 2: that is one you are thinking about watching, that should
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 2: be the first thing you check out on his list
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 2: of films that you have not seen because Rango is amazing.
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 1: I mean, January. It's kind of top of the list. Yeah,
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 1: I do want to watch Rango. Most of the other stuff,
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 1: do I need to revisit or get around to? I mean,
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 1: Mouse Hunt's great.
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 2: Mouse Hunt is really good, but that's also kind of
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 2: outlier in and of itself.
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 1: I really like- It was pre the name being part
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 1: of who he was. Pre Ringu, yeah, for sure. By
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 1: the ring, he sold a movie based on his name.
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 1: And from definitely Pirates on, that's all you needed. But
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 1: now I feel like that's not true anymore. And now it's,
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 1: you know, since the Lone Ranger of it all, it
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 1: sort of killed everything. And now people are just like, oh, yeah,
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 1: that guy. So he sort of shot himself in the
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 1: foot with the Lone Ranger. Which again is due to, wait,
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 1: which actor was in that again? Oh yeah. Who was
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 1: chewing on scenery again? Oh yeah. Yeah.
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 2: Well, who was trying to do that thing with him
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 2: again to try and make another fucking three, six film franchise?
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 2: Like I get, you know, to speak to the big
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 2: box office bomb that just came out with Tom Cruise,
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 2: Lone Ranger was not even.
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 1: That much of a bomb.
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 2: Those $ 10 million made by box office budget and the
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 2: box office take, it made $ 10 million. Maybe it didn't
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 2: actually make $ 10 million.
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 1: It probably didn't.
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 2: But, you know, it supposedly lost Disney $ 200 million probably
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 2: because of all the advertising. But at the same time,
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 2: like what we're talking about with something like Digger is
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 2: like $ 100 million and not even making that in the theater.
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 2: Like this, you know, Lone Ranger made money in the theater.
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 2: People went and saw it.
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 2: It's weird to talk about a bomb in 2013 being
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 2: that versus a bomb now.
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 1: Jesus, mother of God. It is a sliding scale at
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 1: this point. But with that one, again, it was all
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 1: in the advertising because I saw the trailer and went, whoop.
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 1: Don't need to see that because it was so featured
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 1: with the Johnny Depp of it all. And I was
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 1: just like, yeah, I don't know if all of us
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 1: are sick of him now. I think the answer was yes,
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 1: because it didn't do that well. But I definitely was
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 1: to the point of like, I don't want to see
• 1:22:56
  Speaker 1: you do Jack Sparrow with the dead bird on his head.
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 1: I just I don't I don't want to see it like. Yeah,
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 1: I was done.
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 2: Well, and I think you might be in, I wouldn't
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 2: say in a minority. I don't know if you're in
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 2: the minority. I think a lot of people have a
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 2: lot of goodwill towards Johnny Depp. In terms of pirates,
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 2: in terms of the other things that he's worked on.
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 2: But I am in the kind of the camp with
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 2: you where I'm like, I saw that preview or the
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 2: kind of the footage for that Christmas Carol movie.
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 1: I'm like, I don't need to see this again.
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 2: I don't need to see him doing another Jack Sparrow
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 2: thing under a ton of makeup.
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 1: Like, whoopee.
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 2: And also, what is it with these actors? Like, I
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 2: got to play Ebenezer Scrooge. Like, is there no other
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 2: character from literature that's compelling to anyone?
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, I think that's also part of the problem
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 1: with him is like at Lone Ranger era, we were
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 1: still like, well, I'm getting sick of his weird acting,
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 1: but he seems like a good guy. And now I
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 1: think we all are on the other side in the
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 1: real world. I don't know that anybody thinks he's a
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 1: good guy anymore. You might be on the fence of like, well,
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 1: everybody involved in the scenario that came out sucked. But
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 1: at the same time, I was like, yeah, but he
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 1: wasn't looking so good in this one at all. So
• 1:24:02
  Speaker 1: I think we don't really think of him as this
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 1: great guy all around anymore. behind the scenes. And then
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 1: he also keeps putting out these horrible over the top
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 1: characters on screen. So he's just not really bringing anything
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 1: to the table anymore.
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 2: He's squandering what I would perceive to be a lot
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 2: of goodwill that he had.
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he definitely did.
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 2: The Amber heard of it all notwithstanding. Like I think,
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 2: I think he had already squandered goodwill by the time
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 2: all that had happened.
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 1: Well, yeah. I mean, he spent his career seeing how
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 1: much he can do. Like how many hotel rooms can
• 1:24:32
  Speaker 1: I trash and still be okay in people's eyes? how
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 1: much of a, but I'm a rock star, can I pull?
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 1: And people are still like, well, wait, I thought you
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 1: were an actor. What is this bullshit band you're putting together?
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 1: So like, I think he was pushing it for years there.
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 1: And it was only when all of it came out
• 1:24:48
  Speaker 1: with the court case that he's just like, well, now
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 1: you can't even hide it anymore. Like everything is shoved
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 1: out in front of everyone's faces that you're being obnoxious
• 1:24:56
  Speaker 1: and horrible in many cases, a lot of the time.
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 1: And we don't know how much of you isn't that,
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 1: you know, it seems like, based on a lot of
• 1:25:04
  Speaker 1: these stories you're nothing but horrible so.
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 2: Well and that's i think that's the problem with what
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 2: happened with the two of them is it it's like
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 2: the blake lively thing it's like oh no you're both
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 2: awful like i'm not gonna terrible i'm not gonna take
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 2: a stance with either one of you i'm not gonna
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 2: yeah take down the sexual assault or like no like
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 2: you're kind of also a shithead like it's it's not
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 2: that cut and dry and same with johnny depp and
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 2: amber heard like yeah He was not the victim. She
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 2: was not the victim. They were both antagonistic towards one another.
• 1:25:34
  Speaker 1: From day one, I'm like, you two are terrible for
• 1:25:37
  Speaker 1: each other. Get the hell away from each other. And
• 1:25:40
  Speaker 1: they didn't. Like a lot of relationships, truthfully. I get that.
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 2: Which happened around the time of fucking Lone Ranger.
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 1: I mean, I think it was what?
• 1:25:47
  Speaker 2: The Rum Diaries is where they met, which was like
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 2: the film before the Lone Ranger.
• 1:25:51
  Speaker 1: So... obviously it's all falling apart on screen and off screen. Yeah.
• 1:25:57
  Speaker 2: And you know, it's, it's wild. You know, we talk about,
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 2: you know, movie jail and it is a thing. It's
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 2: not like a real thing, but it is a, it
• 1:26:05
  Speaker 2: is a, it's a concept within the film industry where
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 2: you are put in the penalty box as it were
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 2: with your career, because you are perceived as having some
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 2: sort of hand in some failure and often it is
• 1:26:20
  Speaker 2: a failure of immense proportion.
• 1:26:22
  Speaker 1: And sometimes it's on screen and sometimes it's your personal
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 1: behavior off screen. If it weren't Tom Cruise, he'd be
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 1: in fucking movie jail for life because of it. Oh, yeah. Like, literally.
• 1:26:34
  Speaker 2: If it was not Alejandro Inarratu, he would be in
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 2: movie jail for life. Like, that's the thing. Like, Gore
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 2: Verbinski was in movie jail for quite some time. Like,
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 2: you know, you can say what you want about A
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 2: Cure for Wellness, but that was not a big-budget movie.
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 2: And neither is Good Luck, Have Fun, Don't Die, but
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 2: it's more in line with what he was making pre-movie jail. Yeah.
• 1:26:54
  Speaker 1: So he hasn't had a chance to make a big
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 1: budget studio movie since 2013 because of that. Which sucks.
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 2: I mean, he has a vision. He has a voice.
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 2: He has a unique way of doing things. He makes
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 2: interesting movies. And it's a shame when someone goes to
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 2: movie jail. I will never know and will never be
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 2: able to have an opinion other than just my own
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 2: personal one on if it's deserved or not.
• 1:27:19
  Speaker 1: Like, you know.
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 2: Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame,
• 1:27:23
  Speaker 2: you know, shame.
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 1: I don't know. Like, I don't know.
• 1:27:25
  Speaker 2: Make three Pirates movies, shame on me for going to
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 2: see them. Yeah, it's like, I mean, those movies all
• 1:27:30
  Speaker 2: made money. They were all relatively successful. Maybe they weren't
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 2: critically successful, but they were definitely financially successful. You know,
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 2: it's like, it's how quickly the world of film is
• 1:27:40
  Speaker 2: fickle and turns on you. Like, it's very fickle. and
• 1:27:43
  Speaker 2: turns on you very quickly.
• 1:27:44
  Speaker 1: To, I like, again, the only thing I will say
• 1:27:48
  Speaker 1: coming into like the second one, cause that's when, um,
• 1:27:52
  Speaker 1: that's when they add in Davy Jones. Yeah. The whole
• 1:27:55
  Speaker 1: Davy Jones aspect.
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 2: Which is great. Bill Nye is great. That's a great performance.
• 1:28:00
  Speaker 2: It's just, I wish it wasn't in that movie.
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 1: Like, Yeah. So, I mean, it at least adds something
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 1: to it, I guess, to come back to. Again, I
• 1:28:07
  Speaker 1: haven't felt the need to so far, but I'm still considering,
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 1: do I need to revisit two and maybe make myself
• 1:28:13
  Speaker 1: watch three? I don't know.
• 1:28:15
  Speaker 2: I rewatched them, I want to say maybe a year
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 2: or two ago.
• 1:28:18
  Speaker 1: They're fine.
• 1:28:19
  Speaker 2: You know, what's funny is they feel like a blockbuster
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 2: of a time gone past. And I kind of miss
• 1:28:25
  Speaker 2: when those were the kinds of films that were being
• 1:28:27
  Speaker 2: made because it wasn't that long ago.
• 1:28:28
  Speaker 1: It was 20 years ago.
• 1:28:30
  Speaker 2: But they feel like a different kind of big blockbuster film.
• 1:28:33
  Speaker 1: I mean, even Lone Ranger does.
• 1:28:36
  Speaker 2: Practical sets and practical effects and all these kind of
• 1:28:39
  Speaker 2: big budget movies, they now the big budget is spent
• 1:28:41
  Speaker 2: on CGI and volume set shooting and all these other things.
• 1:28:45
  Speaker 2: At least these failures were weird and interesting and they
• 1:28:48
  Speaker 2: were interesting to look at. And yeah, maybe they didn't
• 1:28:51
  Speaker 2: choose the best actors for the roles, but at least
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 2: it wasn't just CGI muck thrown up on the screen.
• 1:28:57
  Speaker 1: Oh, we got the previs ready already. It's like, oh. yeah, great.
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 2: It doesn't even matter who you cast then, does it?
• 1:29:04
  Speaker 1: Nope, not really. No, that's the best part. Exactly.
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 2: Everybody's just fucking interchangeable at this point. And that's where
• 1:29:11
  Speaker 2: it feels like we are now. And in the day
• 1:29:14
  Speaker 2: of The Lone Ranger, that didn't feel like... And maybe
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 2: it was, and I just didn't realize it. Maybe it
• 1:29:19
  Speaker 2: was like that during Pirates of the Caribbean, but I
• 1:29:21
  Speaker 2: feel like those films were a different kind of caliber
• 1:29:24
  Speaker 2: of film being made. Those pirate films... In terms of
• 1:29:27
  Speaker 2: what they were doing, and again, this is a comparison,
• 1:29:30
  Speaker 2: but not one where it's like they're one-to-one, but they
• 1:29:32
  Speaker 2: were trying to do something like Lord of the Rings.
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 1: I mean, literally. They definitely were. Yeah. And that first
• 1:29:37
  Speaker 1: one in particular, yeah. Yeah. So that's interesting as you
• 1:29:41
  Speaker 1: describe that, because are you saying... As we move forward
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 1: into the world we live in now, the real enemy
• 1:29:49
  Speaker 1: is computers. Yeah, well, duh.
• 1:29:52
  Speaker 2: Isn't that what Good Luck, Have Fun, Don't Die was
• 1:29:54
  Speaker 2: saying the whole time? That was kind of what I
• 1:29:56
  Speaker 2: was asking.
• 1:29:56
  Speaker 1: It's like you just sort of presented the scenario of
• 1:29:59
  Speaker 1: film history into the last 20 years that leads to
• 1:30:02
  Speaker 1: the exact point of Good Luck, Have Fun, Don't Die. Yeah.
• 1:30:05
  Speaker 2: It's, it's, you know, it's just when the film is
• 1:30:07
  Speaker 2: kind of proving its own point, I'm like, yeah, you didn't, you,
• 1:30:11
  Speaker 2: I don't give you credit here thinking that you're that clever.
• 1:30:14
  Speaker 1: Maybe you are. Maybe it's just sort of reasoning. It's like, look,
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 1: this is why I didn't get to make movies for
• 1:30:19
  Speaker 1: 20 years. See, I was making good movies with practical
• 1:30:21
  Speaker 1: sets and people back in the old days. Now look
• 1:30:23
  Speaker 1: what I have to do. So he's just blaming us.
• 1:30:26
  Speaker 1: It's our fault.
• 1:30:27
  Speaker 2: Well, and that's in, you know, that's the thing about
• 1:30:29
  Speaker 2: good luck, have fun, don't die. That I think is
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 2: so interesting is again, you know, it, It externalizes the
• 1:30:35
  Speaker 2: AI and makes the AI an external threat as opposed
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 2: to clearly leaning into the fact that we are the
• 1:30:41
  Speaker 2: reason AI gets to where it is.
• 1:30:43
  Speaker 1: And we see some of that in the movie.
• 1:30:45
  Speaker 2: But again, the film is taking such a kind of
• 1:30:48
  Speaker 2: different take and slant on the AI. It's like there's
• 1:30:52
  Speaker 2: no room for that interesting conversation. It doesn't want to
• 1:30:54
  Speaker 2: have that conversation. That's not a conversation. It's interested and
• 1:30:57
  Speaker 2: even engaging in it.
• 1:30:58
  Speaker 1: It's mostly blaming the future falling apart on our just
• 1:31:02
  Speaker 1: general laziness, which I agree with as humans in general,
• 1:31:06
  Speaker 1: but certainly this country is loaded with people that spend
• 1:31:10
  Speaker 1: all day on their phones and they aren't really worried
• 1:31:12
  Speaker 1: about what's going on around them. And that's just the
• 1:31:14
  Speaker 1: way it is. But that's a lot of their focus
• 1:31:17
  Speaker 1: on why things are falling apart. At the AI of
• 1:31:19
  Speaker 1: it all, it's like what is not even addressed is
• 1:31:22
  Speaker 1: how much, like it uses like the government as a
• 1:31:25
  Speaker 1: red herring, but like the government's just like, No, we're
• 1:31:28
  Speaker 1: just going to let this go because, you know, money.
• 1:31:31
  Speaker 1: So so the industry is like, again, it's not just
• 1:31:34
  Speaker 1: the government, but like the massive industries that are behind
• 1:31:37
  Speaker 1: all of this. And they're just like, yeah, that could
• 1:31:40
  Speaker 1: be bad. But, you know, money. So we're going to
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 1: keep doing it anyway. Right. And it's like that's the
• 1:31:45
  Speaker 1: part that's equally as dumb and ridiculous that we don't
• 1:31:48
  Speaker 1: even address in this movie. It's like we're just playing
• 1:31:52
  Speaker 1: the individuals for being dumb. But I'm like, no, the
• 1:31:55
  Speaker 1: forces that are running this country and this world are
• 1:31:58
  Speaker 1: also made up of really dumb people that all they
• 1:32:01
  Speaker 1: really care about is creating things that will make them
• 1:32:04
  Speaker 1: more money. And that's what leads us to the end
• 1:32:07
  Speaker 1: of the world. And that's why we're letting this go now.
• 1:32:10
  Speaker 1: It's just like, well, we could stop it and put
• 1:32:12
  Speaker 1: some guardrails up but you know that would cost us
• 1:32:15
  Speaker 1: money and we we like money so we could care
• 1:32:17
  Speaker 1: less about what's going to happen in a year from
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 1: now if we can make more money at the moment
• 1:32:21
  Speaker 1: like well yeah okay rich people good idea it's not
• 1:32:25
  Speaker 1: really a great plan in the grand scheme of things
• 1:32:28
  Speaker 1: but again this is why humanity will fall apart well and.
• 1:32:32
  Speaker 2: I i feel like you know for a film that
• 1:32:33
  Speaker 2: is wanting to tackle ai to not have the human
• 1:32:36
  Speaker 2: component be part of it other than a small child
• 1:32:39
  Speaker 2: staring into a AI screen and, Oh, that's what it
• 1:32:42
  Speaker 2: is like that.
• 1:32:43
  Speaker 1: I don't know. Like we are like 1988. Yeah.
• 1:32:45
  Speaker 2: It's like, we are like a downfall here. Like this is,
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 2: we know that at this point people will walk willingly
• 1:32:53
  Speaker 2: into the arms of Skynet. Like they're not going to
• 1:32:56
  Speaker 2: fight Skynet. They'll just be like, take me now. And
• 1:32:58
  Speaker 2: it's like, like you said, the idea of there being
• 1:33:01
  Speaker 2: a digital world that you can escape into that is
• 1:33:03
  Speaker 2: seemingly like, limitless that you can control and you have
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 2: you know agency over it's like yeah that's great but
• 1:33:08
  Speaker 2: it is just a cage that you're in like that's
• 1:33:10
  Speaker 2: the west world of.
• 1:33:11
  Speaker 1: It i mean that's a line in the movie you're
• 1:33:13
  Speaker 1: living in a cage so like yeah it's like it
• 1:33:15
  Speaker 1: is what they throw out there but they they barely
• 1:33:18
  Speaker 1: scratch the surface on again what is a way more
• 1:33:20
  Speaker 1: interesting concept than than is what what they do with
• 1:33:24
  Speaker 1: it in this movie. Right. And that's the shame. It's like,
• 1:33:26
  Speaker 1: you know what?
• 1:33:26
  Speaker 2: You just keep introducing these ideas and then you just
• 1:33:29
  Speaker 2: throw them out like they're not interesting. Like, and by
• 1:33:31
  Speaker 2: the time you get to the idea that you settled on,
• 1:33:34
  Speaker 2: that's the least interesting one of them all. Like you
• 1:33:36
  Speaker 2: threw all these other ideas out and threw them on,
• 1:33:38
  Speaker 2: hoisted them on the petard of all these other things
• 1:33:40
  Speaker 2: in the film. And then by the end of it,
• 1:33:41
  Speaker 2: it's like, that's the one you settled on?
• 1:33:42
  Speaker 1: Or the big finale of it all is like still
• 1:33:46
  Speaker 1: an interesting concept, but the visual presentation on it is
• 1:33:49
  Speaker 1: the thing that I feel like it's from the 80s. Like,
• 1:33:52
  Speaker 1: it's just like, here's a big tech CGI thing that,
• 1:33:55
  Speaker 1: you know, at the time we would have made a
• 1:33:57
  Speaker 1: cheesy anime that looked like this and had a giant
• 1:34:00
  Speaker 1: robot monster made of cords. But now it's a big
• 1:34:03
  Speaker 1: CG robot monster made of cords. So, yay? Progress? Like...
• 1:34:08
  Speaker 1: It's it's the thing that feels like really dated of
• 1:34:11
  Speaker 1: it all. That really, at the end, it just needs
• 1:34:13
  Speaker 1: to be a boardroom with people waiting to find ways
• 1:34:16
  Speaker 1: to make money. And they're like, but you're you're killing
• 1:34:18
  Speaker 1: our planet. You're killing these humans like like, yeah, but
• 1:34:21
  Speaker 1: I mean, look at our profits. So, you know, who cares?
• 1:34:24
  Speaker 1: So that's the reality of all. But maybe that's equally
• 1:34:27
  Speaker 1: as boring and certainly not as visually interesting as a
• 1:34:30
  Speaker 1: giant cord monster. So whatever. Well, and that's I mean,
• 1:34:33
  Speaker 1: that's the that's the problem, right?
• 1:34:34
  Speaker 2: I mean, the the the boring dystopia of this all
• 1:34:38
  Speaker 2: is like it It would never be any of this.
• 1:34:41
  Speaker 2: It would literally be, like you said, human beings take
• 1:34:43
  Speaker 2: advantage of one another and profiting off of it.
• 1:34:45
  Speaker 1: That's what we do. Yeah, that's what we do. Beginning
• 1:34:48
  Speaker 1: of time, that's what we've done. We just found new,
• 1:34:50
  Speaker 1: more technological ways to do it.
• 1:34:52
  Speaker 2: And for me, I'm like, okay, so you're telling me
• 1:34:54
  Speaker 2: that we have no hand in our own undoing other
• 1:34:57
  Speaker 2: than like, I want to get into this digital world
• 1:34:59
  Speaker 2: and be there. Like, which by the way, is never
• 1:35:01
  Speaker 2: really explained as to how that, what is that doing
• 1:35:04
  Speaker 2: for the AI?
• 1:35:05
  Speaker 1: That's the minimal of all these crazy side stories. Like,
• 1:35:08
  Speaker 1: I think that's the one that has maybe the biggest
• 1:35:11
  Speaker 1: question to sort of like wrap your head around. And like,
• 1:35:13
  Speaker 1: it's the one they barely even scratched the surface on.
• 1:35:16
  Speaker 1: And I don't understand why. Yeah. Well, again, because I
• 1:35:19
  Speaker 1: feel like it just needs somebody else. Like I say
• 1:35:23
  Speaker 1: that about many of these screenwriters and directors and like
• 1:35:26
  Speaker 1: as much as I sometimes fault them for, you know,
• 1:35:29
  Speaker 1: this movie had like seven writers on it. It's going
• 1:35:32
  Speaker 1: to be great. But at the same time, I'm like,
• 1:35:33
  Speaker 1: when you just got one and things aren't really working
• 1:35:37
  Speaker 1: right as the end result, like maybe hand it off
• 1:35:39
  Speaker 1: to somebody and be like, give this another pass and
• 1:35:41
  Speaker 1: like figure out what isn't working on it. But I
• 1:35:44
  Speaker 1: don't think people want to do that. That does seem
• 1:35:46
  Speaker 1: like a weird studio involvement thing that we don't want
• 1:35:49
  Speaker 1: most of the time. But sometimes I feel like it
• 1:35:51
  Speaker 1: would actually help to have somebody else give it a look,
• 1:35:54
  Speaker 1: like see what they need to do.
• 1:35:56
  Speaker 2: Well, and, you know, Gore Verbinski has story credit on
• 1:35:59
  Speaker 2: Rango and A Cure for Wellness. So it's not like
• 1:36:01
  Speaker 2: he has no writer credit or zero writer credit. He
• 1:36:05
  Speaker 2: has a writer credit on his first short film, but
• 1:36:07
  Speaker 2: he's not a writer. So it's one of those things
• 1:36:08
  Speaker 2: where it's like he resonated with the script. He read
• 1:36:11
  Speaker 2: the script and wanted to work on the script.
• 1:36:13
  Speaker 1: And it's like I... And had visuals that were going
• 1:36:16
  Speaker 1: to look great. And a lot of them do. Like
• 1:36:18
  Speaker 1: he has some really good stuff in here visually. Not
• 1:36:20
  Speaker 1: necessarily the finale, but the other stuff along the way.
• 1:36:23
  Speaker 1: Like I feel like he does have a vision to
• 1:36:26
  Speaker 1: what he's trying to do. It just doesn't necessarily mean
• 1:36:30
  Speaker 1: you don't need to have somebody else fix the problems
• 1:36:32
  Speaker 1: in the script.
• 1:36:33
  Speaker 2: Well, and like you said, that's the thing about the movie,
• 1:36:35
  Speaker 2: I think, overall, is I feel like there's a lot
• 1:36:39
  Speaker 2: of fun, interesting novel ideas that are configured.
• 1:36:43
  Speaker 1: Well, maybe they're not.
• 1:36:44
  Speaker 2: It's a novel combination. They're not novel ideas. And that's
• 1:36:48
  Speaker 2: the problem, because once they start untangling it and we
• 1:36:51
  Speaker 2: realize that it's not nearly as exciting or interesting or
• 1:36:53
  Speaker 2: well thought out as it seemed initially, it completely falls
• 1:36:56
  Speaker 2: apart under the weight of its own premise. And it
• 1:36:58
  Speaker 2: never gets back to the first 10 minutes.
• 1:37:00
  Speaker 1: Of the movie.
• 1:37:01
  Speaker 2: And there's two and a half hours of a movie.
• 1:37:03
  Speaker 2: after that first 10 minutes. And that's such a shame
• 1:37:07
  Speaker 2: because you could have just had this be a 30
• 1:37:09
  Speaker 2: to 40 minute short. This could have been a Black
• 1:37:12
  Speaker 2: Mirror episode. You don't have to have... a two and
• 1:37:15
  Speaker 2: a half hour existential crisis in AI. It's like, it's
• 1:37:18
  Speaker 2: not even that. It's not even speaking to what's going
• 1:37:22
  Speaker 2: on with AI. It feels like flights of fancy. And
• 1:37:24
  Speaker 2: I'm like, I don't know if I even fucking care
• 1:37:26
  Speaker 2: about flights of fancy with AI. Because it's like, this
• 1:37:29
  Speaker 2: is boiling it down too far. This is simplifying it
• 1:37:32
  Speaker 2: too much. This is taking human beings out of this
• 1:37:35
  Speaker 2: more than it should. Human beings are complicit. in our
• 1:37:38
  Speaker 2: own creation of all of this. Like this is not just, oh,
• 1:37:40
  Speaker 2: it just happened overnight magically. Like, no, people are pushing
• 1:37:43
  Speaker 2: to do this. And to miss that is just, I
• 1:37:46
  Speaker 2: think to miss a much more interesting point that the
• 1:37:48
  Speaker 2: film could have made. And it just, it was not
• 1:37:50
  Speaker 2: interested at all.
• 1:37:52
  Speaker 1: I don't even know that it needs to be a
• 1:37:54
  Speaker 1: decent episode of Black Mirror. I think it's like a
• 1:37:56
  Speaker 1: whole season's worth of ideas. You know, it's like, you
• 1:37:59
  Speaker 1: can have one that's the time travel story. You can
• 1:38:01
  Speaker 1: have one that's the addicted to phone story, the school
• 1:38:03
  Speaker 1: shooting story, the cloning story. the giving yourself over to
• 1:38:06
  Speaker 1: the computer simulation story. Like there's a whole season's worth
• 1:38:11
  Speaker 1: of ideas in this one movie that you could even
• 1:38:14
  Speaker 1: just give it a little more story in a 28
• 1:38:17
  Speaker 1: minute scenario. And it would probably feel a little better
• 1:38:21
  Speaker 1: with the viewer than what we get with just, it's
• 1:38:24
  Speaker 1: almost more frustrating to just score a hint at them
• 1:38:26
  Speaker 1: along the way here and then not really give you
• 1:38:29
  Speaker 1: anything satisfied. with any of the stories by the end.
• 1:38:32
  Speaker 2: And it just feels like a waste of everybody's time.
• 1:38:34
  Speaker 2: Because Sam Rockwell, he's good, but by the time the
• 1:38:37
  Speaker 2: movie ends, he's kind of been taken out of it.
• 1:38:39
  Speaker 2: And he's not, it's not as much his movie. It's
• 1:38:42
  Speaker 2: Hayley Lou Richardson's, which is fine. She's fine.
• 1:38:44
  Speaker 1: Which again, I think she's great in it. But again,
• 1:38:47
  Speaker 1: she's got, Little to do in the beginning. And in
• 1:38:50
  Speaker 1: the end, most of what she has to do again,
• 1:38:53
  Speaker 1: she's doing a good job with, but it doesn't mean
• 1:38:55
  Speaker 1: anything to the movie. If we've lost, you know, if
• 1:38:59
  Speaker 1: we're to the point, we don't really care what's going on.
• 1:39:01
  Speaker 1: No matter what she delivers, it can't really save the movie.
• 1:39:04
  Speaker 1: Whereas there's so many other movies she's in that she's
• 1:39:07
  Speaker 1: like amazing in and it works within the movie and
• 1:39:10
  Speaker 1: it makes her look better. Whereas here she's trying to
• 1:39:13
  Speaker 1: carry that last half of the movie, but the story
• 1:39:15
  Speaker 1: itself is just kind of cutting the legs out from under.
• 1:39:17
  Speaker 2: And that's a shame because like you said, she is
• 1:39:20
  Speaker 2: really good in the things I've seen her in.
• 1:39:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely.
• 1:39:23
  Speaker 2: And this is, again, she's being given a role we've
• 1:39:26
  Speaker 2: seen played by someone who is still acting, you know,
• 1:39:28
  Speaker 2: right now. Linda Hamilton still acting was in the fifth, God,
• 1:39:32
  Speaker 2: the fucking fifth season.
• 1:39:32
  Speaker 1: Of Stranger Things. Jesus Christ.
• 1:39:34
  Speaker 2: To speak about things that need not be spoken about.
• 1:39:38
  Speaker 2: Speaking of things that ruin all the goodwill that they
• 1:39:40
  Speaker 2: built up with their fan base in like.
• 1:39:42
  Speaker 1: The one fell swoop. Um, it's, it's funny.
• 1:39:46
  Speaker 2: Cause if you're going to do this story, I just,
• 1:39:48
  Speaker 2: I don't know. Maybe I don't want to say don't
• 1:39:50
  Speaker 2: do this story, but give it another once over or
• 1:39:53
  Speaker 2: another twice.
• 1:39:53
  Speaker 1: So at least what I'm saying, it just needs to
• 1:39:56
  Speaker 1: be tightened up or just half it and do two
• 1:39:59
  Speaker 1: movies and focus on more of the stuff in each
• 1:40:02
  Speaker 1: movie or again, individual episodes. Like there's so many ways
• 1:40:06
  Speaker 1: to break up these stories that you can devote more
• 1:40:08
  Speaker 1: effort and time to it. It's just cramming them all
• 1:40:11
  Speaker 1: in this one thing. Does it really work? work exactly
• 1:40:15
  Speaker 1: and again i think it's just the more you pick
• 1:40:17
  Speaker 1: at it the more it it it's just, it all
• 1:40:20
  Speaker 1: falls apart.
• 1:40:21
  Speaker 2: It's one of those things where I wonder like, did
• 1:40:23
  Speaker 2: Gore Verbinski think that because of the things that had
• 1:40:25
  Speaker 2: happened before, nobody would pay him again?
• 1:40:27
  Speaker 1: That might be true.
• 1:40:28
  Speaker 2: And I'm like, I mean, if that's what you think, like,
• 1:40:32
  Speaker 2: I guess you just throw everything at the wall and
• 1:40:33
  Speaker 2: see what happens. But I, you know, part of not
• 1:40:35
  Speaker 2: working is your own choice. Like, you know, he made
• 1:40:38
  Speaker 2: a cure for wellness three years after Lone Ranger. So
• 1:40:40
  Speaker 2: he wasn't in movie jail the way so many other.
• 1:40:42
  Speaker 1: People have been in movie jail. You know, I'm never
• 1:40:44
  Speaker 1: making another goddamn film movie. You know, there are plenty
• 1:40:46
  Speaker 1: of those.
• 1:40:47
  Speaker 2: You know, I, I don't, I don't know if Maggie
• 1:40:48
  Speaker 2: Gyllenhaal is ever going to get to make another film.
• 1:40:52
  Speaker 2: When your film bombs to the tune of $ 100 million,
• 1:40:54
  Speaker 2: you don't get to make another movie.
• 1:40:55
  Speaker 1: Which is a shame, because again, just looking at what
• 1:40:58
  Speaker 1: she did and what vision she had, and I'm like,
• 1:41:01
  Speaker 1: this is the kind of people, even if it doesn't work,
• 1:41:03
  Speaker 1: you want them to keep working, for God's sakes. That's
• 1:41:06
  Speaker 1: how we get impressive artwork, is they can all knock
• 1:41:09
  Speaker 1: it out of the park, but you have to at
• 1:41:11
  Speaker 1: least keep letting them Do something. So I don't know.
• 1:41:15
  Speaker 1: Maybe that's part of it. Maybe he didn't have faith
• 1:41:17
  Speaker 1: in delivering what he used to or again, didn't have
• 1:41:21
  Speaker 1: faith in the studio system to put it out there.
• 1:41:23
  Speaker 1: Because also, do you remember when this came out? Did
• 1:41:26
  Speaker 1: anybody pay attention when this came out? Like, I feel
• 1:41:28
  Speaker 1: like they didn't promote it much at all. And before
• 1:41:32
  Speaker 1: I knew it, it was streaming. So it's like it
• 1:41:34
  Speaker 1: did not get a real studio push, which something, you know,
• 1:41:37
  Speaker 1: for the cast that it has and the director behind it,
• 1:41:41
  Speaker 1: like it probably should have. Again, finished product wise, maybe not.
• 1:41:45
  Speaker 1: But for what it was on paper, it should have
• 1:41:48
  Speaker 1: had a big studio push.
• 1:41:49
  Speaker 2: Well, and, you know, it made money. Of all the
• 1:41:53
  Speaker 2: times to come out, it was released on President's Day
• 1:41:56
  Speaker 2: weekend of this year. So it's, you know, it came
• 1:42:00
  Speaker 2: out against Wuthering Heights Goat and Crime 101. And Wuthering
• 1:42:04
  Speaker 2: Heights made about eight times as much money as it did.
• 1:42:07
  Speaker 2: It took in $ 4 million over the President's Day four-day weekend,
• 1:42:11
  Speaker 2: which is on a budget.
• 1:42:12
  Speaker 1: Of $ 20 million. Not bad. And up against Wuthering Heights,
• 1:42:16
  Speaker 1: which kind of has a little name recognition, right? I
• 1:42:20
  Speaker 1: feel like, yeah, people are going to know kind of
• 1:42:22
  Speaker 1: what they're drawn to on that one. Whereas good luck,
• 1:42:25
  Speaker 1: have fun, don't die is even in the name kind
• 1:42:29
  Speaker 1: of weird and maybe silly. And like, I don't know
• 1:42:31
  Speaker 1: what to expect from that. So maybe I'll wait till
• 1:42:33
  Speaker 1: that's streaming. Like, no, I agree.
• 1:42:36
  Speaker 2: It doesn't have that curbside appeal.
• 1:42:38
  Speaker 1: That's something like.
• 1:42:39
  Speaker 2: Wuthering Heights does and Wuthering Heights was pretty hyped up
• 1:42:42
  Speaker 2: as well so this and this was not advertised at
• 1:42:45
  Speaker 2: all like you said I saw it just on fucking
• 1:42:47
  Speaker 2: streaming one day I was like oh that's on streaming
• 1:42:49
  Speaker 2: now cool that looks interesting it has Sam Rockwell and
• 1:42:51
  Speaker 2: I didn't even know anything about it I found out
• 1:42:53
  Speaker 2: about it about.
• 1:42:54
  Speaker 1: It just being the movie geek I am and paying
• 1:42:57
  Speaker 1: attention to those circles but that's the only way I
• 1:43:01
  Speaker 1: didn't see I don't think I saw any ads for
• 1:43:03
  Speaker 1: it beforehand I think I went and sought one out
• 1:43:06
  Speaker 1: after I heard people talking about it and found one online.
• 1:43:09
  Speaker 1: But again, when you've got to do that much digging
• 1:43:12
  Speaker 1: on your own, like the studio is not pushing, like
• 1:43:15
  Speaker 1: it's not being crammed down your throat like so many
• 1:43:17
  Speaker 1: other big budget movies are. So again, I don't think
• 1:43:20
  Speaker 1: they had much faith in what he was putting out there. Again,
• 1:43:23
  Speaker 1: maybe before it even they saw what they had on
• 1:43:26
  Speaker 1: their hands. But Also, that title, I was thinking that
• 1:43:29
  Speaker 1: earlier today. I was like, as much as it's a
• 1:43:31
  Speaker 1: fun title and I like it, and I do think
• 1:43:33
  Speaker 1: that's part of what made me remember it when I
• 1:43:35
  Speaker 1: first heard about it. In the concept of the movie,
• 1:43:38
  Speaker 1: does that make any sense? No. That's a gaming term.
• 1:43:41
  Speaker 1: It's a gaming term. And like the only game is
• 1:43:44
  Speaker 1: them going into the cubicle or the pod or whatever
• 1:43:48
  Speaker 1: they put them in. And then like they stay there.
• 1:43:51
  Speaker 1: And it seems like it's a utopia type of thing
• 1:43:54
  Speaker 1: not like a gamer game so it's not like don't
• 1:43:56
  Speaker 1: die kind of a game it's a live here in
• 1:43:59
  Speaker 1: perfection for all eternity which doesn't match that little shout
• 1:44:03
  Speaker 1: out so i don't know that was again it's like
• 1:44:06
  Speaker 1: once again as a concept it seemed like a good
• 1:44:08
  Speaker 1: idea within the story that you wrote, it doesn't really
• 1:44:11
  Speaker 1: make any sense.
• 1:44:12
  Speaker 2: And it makes me sad because it feels like, like
• 1:44:16
  Speaker 2: you just alluded to, like, what is the point of
• 1:44:17
  Speaker 2: even having that as the title?
• 1:44:20
  Speaker 1: Again, it's memorable. So I think that's- But for whom
• 1:44:23
  Speaker 1: and for why is it memorable? That's the question. For
• 1:44:25
  Speaker 1: the finished product, it doesn't make any sense. But as a, well,
• 1:44:29
  Speaker 1: this is weird that might at least stick in people's
• 1:44:31
  Speaker 1: heads when we're running a lot of ads for it,
• 1:44:33
  Speaker 1: but then they also didn't run a lot of ads
• 1:44:35
  Speaker 1: for it. So- It totally fell through the cracks and
• 1:44:38
  Speaker 1: it has a weird name that probably puts off regular people.
• 1:44:41
  Speaker 1: So they're just like, oh, that sounds weird. I don't
• 1:44:43
  Speaker 1: want to see that. And then they don't. And now
• 1:44:45
  Speaker 1: you get to a movie that most people don't know
• 1:44:47
  Speaker 1: is even out there.
• 1:44:49
  Speaker 2: Which I think that's the biggest shame for me is
• 1:44:51
  Speaker 2: that it just kind of came out and nobody, you know...
• 1:44:55
  Speaker 2: I didn't hear any groundswell about it. Nobody said, hey,
• 1:44:57
  Speaker 2: you should go check this out. You know, I, Mike,
• 1:44:59
  Speaker 2: the projection booth, Mike White and I covered the end
• 1:45:01
  Speaker 2: of Oak Street earlier this summer. And that film feels
• 1:45:04
  Speaker 2: like this one where it's like, just kind of came out.
• 1:45:06
  Speaker 1: Nobody said shit about it. Nobody. At least got a push.
• 1:45:09
  Speaker 1: Like I said, trailers for that one, but not new. Still,
• 1:45:12
  Speaker 1: it didn't get the buildup like something of that scale
• 1:45:16
  Speaker 1: should have.
• 1:45:17
  Speaker 2: And Anne Hathaway, Ewan McGregor, big budget dinosaur movie did
• 1:45:21
  Speaker 2: not get up.
• 1:45:22
  Speaker 1: I did not get a push that it should have.
• 1:45:24
  Speaker 1: yeah yeah where this didn't even get that so it's
• 1:45:27
  Speaker 1: like and I feel like that's a lot of movies
• 1:45:30
  Speaker 1: now like We're making less, it feels like, because they're
• 1:45:34
  Speaker 1: kind of complaining that like the studio system's falling apart. Meanwhile,
• 1:45:38
  Speaker 1: we also had like a huge, really impressive year, financially speaking.
• 1:45:42
  Speaker 1: So it's weird. It's scattered the way that things are
• 1:45:45
  Speaker 1: working in the film industry now. But in theory, we're
• 1:45:48
  Speaker 1: making a lot less movies in practice, probably. I haven't
• 1:45:52
  Speaker 1: done the math, but I'm sure it's less movies than
• 1:45:54
  Speaker 1: it was, you know, 20 years ago when Gore Verbinski
• 1:45:57
  Speaker 1: was a big name. And like, I feel like of
• 1:46:00
  Speaker 1: the ones that are getting out there, a lot of
• 1:46:03
  Speaker 1: them are getting out there with no push. And I
• 1:46:05
  Speaker 1: don't know if I'm blaming streaming because they're just banking on, well, whatever,
• 1:46:09
  Speaker 1: it's just going to end up on streaming and somehow
• 1:46:11
  Speaker 1: we'll end up making our backend off of that eventually.
• 1:46:14
  Speaker 1: But it just seems like the stuff doesn't operate on
• 1:46:17
  Speaker 1: the level that it used to ever since streaming got involved.
• 1:46:21
  Speaker 1: It's like when it was your only way to make
• 1:46:23
  Speaker 1: money was opening weekend, they would, uh, just announce it
• 1:46:26
  Speaker 1: and promote the hell out of it. And people would
• 1:46:29
  Speaker 1: be out there pushing it. And like, you knew what
• 1:46:31
  Speaker 1: the new movies were. Whereas now I feel like stuff
• 1:46:34
  Speaker 1: comes out all the time with real names in it.
• 1:46:37
  Speaker 1: Sometimes with real directors, even with a decent budget sometimes.
• 1:46:40
  Speaker 1: And I don't hear about it. And I do nothing
• 1:46:42
  Speaker 1: but talk about movies and listen to other people talk
• 1:46:46
  Speaker 1: about movies and read stuff about movies. And like, I'm like,
• 1:46:48
  Speaker 1: when one gets past me, I'm like, you guys aren't
• 1:46:51
  Speaker 1: doing your job. Like I'm paying attention to this stuff.
• 1:46:54
  Speaker 1: And I still don't hear about a ton of this stuff.
• 1:46:56
  Speaker 1: And that I think for me is similarly clearly to you.
• 1:46:59
  Speaker 1: That's the big issue, which is if if you are
• 1:47:02
  Speaker 1: not allowing me as the film viewer and the film
• 1:47:06
  Speaker 1: kind of like enjoy or to have the opportunity to
• 1:47:09
  Speaker 1: to have any sort of buildup for any of this,
• 1:47:11
  Speaker 1: how can you expect me to go and see this
• 1:47:14
  Speaker 1: film in theaters?
• 1:47:14
  Speaker 2: And it's like, you know what? It's a self-fulfilling prophecy.
• 1:47:17
  Speaker 1: No, you're right.
• 1:47:17
  Speaker 2: Like, obviously no one went and saw the movie because
• 1:47:19
  Speaker 2: you didn't fucking advertise it. They didn't know it was
• 1:47:22
  Speaker 2: a movie first and foremost. And then you didn't promote
• 1:47:24
  Speaker 2: the one that you had once it was finished. So
• 1:47:27
  Speaker 2: it's like, They've just changed the way that movies operate
• 1:47:30
  Speaker 2: now in the in the presentation of it all. Like
• 1:47:33
  Speaker 2: you still have a handful of movies that do spend
• 1:47:35
  Speaker 2: as much on advertising as they did on the budget,
• 1:47:38
  Speaker 2: which is insane to me. But you've got all these
• 1:47:41
  Speaker 2: others that are still getting made, but you're not doing
• 1:47:44
  Speaker 2: anything with them. And I'm like, well, then what's the point? Like,
• 1:47:47
  Speaker 2: why are you putting these filmmakers and screenwriters and actors
• 1:47:50
  Speaker 2: through all this work? to then just dump it on
• 1:47:53
  Speaker 2: a streaming service somewhere and then nobody gets to see
• 1:47:56
  Speaker 2: it because they don't know.
• 1:47:57
  Speaker 1: That it's out there.
• 1:47:58
  Speaker 2: Well, and that is the thing that's nice about this
• 1:48:00
  Speaker 2: film is this film was seen, there was a kind of,
• 1:48:04
  Speaker 2: you know, Hulu groundswell around the film, which is, which,
• 1:48:07
  Speaker 2: you know, I think benefits a film in the long
• 1:48:09
  Speaker 2: run to have kind of a second or, you know,
• 1:48:11
  Speaker 2: first life as it were on streaming. But yeah, it's,
• 1:48:14
  Speaker 2: you know, I think it's a shame that this movie
• 1:48:16
  Speaker 2: kind of got abandoned by the studio. But like you said,
• 1:48:19
  Speaker 2: I kind of see why because I think if you
• 1:48:21
  Speaker 2: enjoy this movie and like it really resonates with you, good.
• 1:48:25
  Speaker 2: I think it's, it's, I'm not saying it doesn't for me.
• 1:48:27
  Speaker 2: I'm just saying there are parts of this movie that
• 1:48:29
  Speaker 2: broadly do not work.
• 1:48:31
  Speaker 1: And it's weirder that it got approved. You know, that
• 1:48:33
  Speaker 1: the green light happened for something that was as big
• 1:48:37
  Speaker 1: a budget as it is. Again, it's minimal for the
• 1:48:40
  Speaker 1: kind of movies he was making 20 years ago, but still,
• 1:48:43
  Speaker 1: it's a good amount of money for a movie that's
• 1:48:46
  Speaker 1: a really weird premise, a weird title that most normal
• 1:48:49
  Speaker 1: people don't know what to do with. And that has
• 1:48:52
  Speaker 1: sort of a whole lot of weird sci-fi ideas crammed
• 1:48:57
  Speaker 1: into the plot. So it's like, I can see why
• 1:48:59
  Speaker 1: they would have issues with it, but also why did
• 1:49:01
  Speaker 1: they still throw as much money as they did behind it?
• 1:49:04
  Speaker 1: Like it's, I'm surprised they got to where it did really.
• 1:49:07
  Speaker 2: As opposed to just making the changes and maybe saving
• 1:49:10
  Speaker 2: themselves a budget.
• 1:49:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I don't, it's. Just not making it at all
• 1:49:14
  Speaker 1: and going with another script that was cheaper and didn't
• 1:49:17
  Speaker 1: have as many weird, problematic, crazy plot lines.
• 1:49:20
  Speaker 2: I feel like they read the part with the cloned
• 1:49:23
  Speaker 2: shot high school kids and they were like, this is...
• 1:49:26
  Speaker 2: this is, this is it. We'll put, we'll wrap all
• 1:49:28
  Speaker 2: of this. We'll wrap the movie and all this other stuff.
• 1:49:29
  Speaker 2: But ultimately it's about that. Cause that's what it feels like, right?
• 1:49:32
  Speaker 2: It feels like that's the point of the movie. And
• 1:49:35
  Speaker 2: it's like, you know what? If you want that to
• 1:49:36
  Speaker 2: be the point of your movie, make that the point
• 1:49:38
  Speaker 2: of your movie, like make that the focus. Cause I
• 1:49:40
  Speaker 2: would have, I would have been engaged with that film
• 1:49:43
  Speaker 2: because that's the most outside of the beginning of the film.
• 1:49:46
  Speaker 2: That's the most engaged I was with the film was
• 1:49:48
  Speaker 2: when it was, Juno temple and this whole kind of
• 1:49:51
  Speaker 2: what is, what does all this mean? And what are
• 1:49:52
  Speaker 2: the implications and ramifications for the parents and the kids
• 1:49:55
  Speaker 2: and society and all this? It's like, that's not interesting.
• 1:49:58
  Speaker 2: Sam Rockwell running around in this like mylar bag is,
• 1:50:01
  Speaker 2: and it's like, yeah, I guess, but unless it's going
• 1:50:03
  Speaker 2: to be that the whole movie, which it ends up
• 1:50:05
  Speaker 2: not being, it's not going to be more entertaining. And
• 1:50:08
  Speaker 2: it's like, well, that's what happens.
• 1:50:10
  Speaker 1: It's like, oh, okay. Self-fulfilling prophecy. It's definitely the most
• 1:50:13
  Speaker 1: interesting part outside of the opening, but To me, when
• 1:50:16
  Speaker 1: I was watching it, every time I've seen it, I'm
• 1:50:19
  Speaker 1: just like, this is the part I can't believe didn't
• 1:50:21
  Speaker 1: get cut because this to me is the part that's
• 1:50:23
  Speaker 1: going to really piss people off because people rightfully so
• 1:50:28
  Speaker 1: are very upset about even the concept of school shootings.
• 1:50:31
  Speaker 1: So like the fact that Not only is it in
• 1:50:34
  Speaker 1: here in a weird sensationalized way, but it's also like
• 1:50:38
  Speaker 1: that's one of the lighter moments. Like it's very silly
• 1:50:42
  Speaker 1: the way it presents not just the cloning part, but
• 1:50:45
  Speaker 1: even the school shootings in the teacher part of it.
• 1:50:48
  Speaker 1: And then when we get the lockdown and then it
• 1:50:50
  Speaker 1: follows up with that later when they're like, oh, you know,
• 1:50:53
  Speaker 1: lost so many of them. Like it's just such a
• 1:50:56
  Speaker 1: light tone to something that is not just tragic, but
• 1:51:00
  Speaker 1: tragic on a level that people will completely disown something
• 1:51:04
  Speaker 1: because it even mentions it sometimes like definitely as we've
• 1:51:07
  Speaker 1: seen like people would with the drama drop the drama
• 1:51:10
  Speaker 1: that's it and That was an on and off switch
• 1:51:14
  Speaker 1: for people on that movie, that if you were OK
• 1:51:16
  Speaker 1: with that, you liked the movie. If you couldn't get
• 1:51:19
  Speaker 1: over that, you were done with that movie, period. Didn't
• 1:51:21
  Speaker 1: matter how good the performances were. Didn't matter where the
• 1:51:23
  Speaker 1: story went. They were talking about something I don't want
• 1:51:26
  Speaker 1: to talk about. And like they they don't want to
• 1:51:28
  Speaker 1: push themselves on, you know, an interesting project, whether it's good,
• 1:51:31
  Speaker 1: bad or otherwise. They just don't want to address that topic.
• 1:51:33
  Speaker 2: It's the blazing saddles of it all with the drama.
• 1:51:36
  Speaker 2: Like the drama is about the, the age of oversharing
• 1:51:39
  Speaker 2: that we live in now. And like, what happens when
• 1:51:41
  Speaker 2: you overshare when a group asks for you to overshare
• 1:51:43
  Speaker 2: and you overshare and then everybody gets mad at you
• 1:51:45
  Speaker 2: for oversharing. It's like, yeah, what the fuck did you
• 1:51:47
  Speaker 2: want me to do then?
• 1:51:48
  Speaker 1: It's like that. That's the fucking point of the movie.
• 1:51:50
  Speaker 2: So I don't know why anyone was frustrated about it
• 1:51:53
  Speaker 2: when that was the point of like, it was unlike
• 1:51:56
  Speaker 2: this movie. It wasn't just added in to trivialize the
• 1:51:59
  Speaker 2: entire thing. Like, every honestly this entire movie trivializes school
• 1:52:03
  Speaker 2: shooting and it's.
• 1:52:03
  Speaker 1: Like yeah this is more i couldn't believe it got
• 1:52:06
  Speaker 1: made because of that yeah it's more offensive in that
• 1:52:09
  Speaker 1: regard than it is in any other regard at all
• 1:52:11
  Speaker 1: like i like you said i'm shocked given the amount
• 1:52:14
  Speaker 1: of just like i would say hissy fits thrown about
• 1:52:17
  Speaker 1: the drama which is completely undeserved it's like like i
• 1:52:19
  Speaker 1: said it's like the blazing saddles racist thing like they're
• 1:52:21
  Speaker 1: making fun of the racist like the drama is making
• 1:52:23
  Speaker 1: fun of the people that are like pearl clutching constantly
• 1:52:26
  Speaker 1: and especially about like thought crime stuff.
• 1:52:28
  Speaker 2: Like it's, you know, for Robert Pattinson to have been
• 1:52:31
  Speaker 2: in the drama, which is kind of about thought crimes.
• 1:52:32
  Speaker 2: And then in primetime, which is also kind of about
• 1:52:35
  Speaker 2: thought crimes, I think is very interesting. But again, to
• 1:52:38
  Speaker 2: have the school shooting be a through line from, from
• 1:52:41
  Speaker 2: that film to this film, and that one is lambasted
• 1:52:45
  Speaker 2: for it, and this film was like, well, that's the
• 1:52:47
  Speaker 2: most interesting part of the movie. It's like, wait a
• 1:52:48
  Speaker 2: fucking second here. How does this work, then? Are you
• 1:52:52
  Speaker 2: clutching your pearls while on the edge of your seat?
• 1:52:54
  Speaker 2: Is that what it is? Was the drama too serious
• 1:52:57
  Speaker 2: and honest about it? I don't understand what you want,
• 1:52:59
  Speaker 2: because I didn't see anyone complaining about it in regards
• 1:53:02
  Speaker 2: to this film, but that's all I heard in.
• 1:53:04
  Speaker 1: Regards to the drama. Genuinely.
• 1:53:06
  Speaker 2: It's so divisive, and it's like, divisive about what? That's
• 1:53:09
  Speaker 2: the point of the movie.
• 1:53:10
  Speaker 1: Maybe because it's... it's thrown out there as a serious
• 1:53:13
  Speaker 1: topic in the drama and everyone responds to it even
• 1:53:16
  Speaker 1: within the movie. Like it's a serious topic because it is,
• 1:53:19
  Speaker 1: but this is treat like it's the most satire of
• 1:53:23
  Speaker 1: it all too. It's the most really over the top
• 1:53:27
  Speaker 1: performances are in that little section there. Cause I mean
• 1:53:31
  Speaker 1: the time travel in part in the diner is taken
• 1:53:33
  Speaker 1: way more seriously than Then that snippet in the middle
• 1:53:36
  Speaker 1: is complete crazy over the top satire that feels like
• 1:53:39
  Speaker 1: an alternate future world, you know, that like it's not
• 1:53:42
  Speaker 1: taking any. It's supposed to be this.
• 1:53:44
  Speaker 2: It's supposed to be two days before this movie takes place.
• 1:53:46
  Speaker 1: And it's like, yeah, I mean, it's not future world,
• 1:53:48
  Speaker 1: but it feels that's why I'm like, it's very Black
• 1:53:50
  Speaker 1: Mirror because it feels like an alternate universe where this
• 1:53:53
  Speaker 1: is going on. But like, it's not kind of I mean,
• 1:53:56
  Speaker 1: the whole thing kind of feels like a weird alternate
• 1:53:58
  Speaker 1: universe or an AI simulation, if you will. But yeah,
• 1:54:01
  Speaker 1: I think that's what I felt was so weird about that.
• 1:54:04
  Speaker 1: That was the part I got in and was like,
• 1:54:06
  Speaker 1: I can't believe this got made as it is without
• 1:54:09
  Speaker 1: somebody having a fit and like stopping the production before
• 1:54:12
  Speaker 1: it even got that far. Because by the time it
• 1:54:14
  Speaker 1: got out, then it's just going to piss people off.
• 1:54:17
  Speaker 1: And yet somehow it didn't. I don't I don't know.
• 1:54:19
  Speaker 1: I was shocked by that because I think it's interesting,
• 1:54:22
  Speaker 1: but I usually will try to wrap my head around
• 1:54:25
  Speaker 1: these kind of concepts, not completely turn off on a
• 1:54:28
  Speaker 1: movie because of it, which Most people, definitely your regular
• 1:54:32
  Speaker 1: film goers, that's usually how they respond to stuff like this.
• 1:54:35
  Speaker 1: If they don't like the topic, they're done with that movie, period.
• 1:54:38
  Speaker 1: They don't want to address it. They don't want to
• 1:54:40
  Speaker 1: dig into it and try to figure out what the
• 1:54:42
  Speaker 1: movie's trying to say. They don't care what the movie's
• 1:54:44
  Speaker 1: trying to say. They're done with it. Which is, I think,
• 1:54:46
  Speaker 1: really lazy.
• 1:54:48
  Speaker 2: And that's, you know, that was the discourse I heard
• 1:54:50
  Speaker 2: around the drama was like, oh, it's, you know, a
• 1:54:52
  Speaker 2: school shooting thing.
• 1:54:53
  Speaker 1: I'm out. And it's like, oh, fuck you. Like who cares?
• 1:54:57
  Speaker 1: Like it's like, that's my thing. Like, I feel like
• 1:54:59
  Speaker 1: we have to, as a society, dig into these concepts
• 1:55:03
  Speaker 1: because you can say I'm done, but guess what? It's
• 1:55:05
  Speaker 1: not going away. Like it continues every day on the news.
• 1:55:09
  Speaker 1: You see another time. So I'm like, we can't just
• 1:55:12
  Speaker 1: pretend it doesn't happen and things are okay. It's like,
• 1:55:15
  Speaker 1: we need to examine what the hell is going on
• 1:55:18
  Speaker 1: here and, and try to figure out that's why that
• 1:55:21
  Speaker 1: part of the drama is so good is because she's
• 1:55:24
  Speaker 1: trying to figure out what led her to that. And
• 1:55:25
  Speaker 1: we are the audience trying to figure out, well, how
• 1:55:28
  Speaker 1: did she get to that point? And thankfully, how did
• 1:55:30
  Speaker 1: she get herself out of that situation? Like that's the
• 1:55:33
  Speaker 1: kind of stuff we need to figure out to, continue
• 1:55:36
  Speaker 1: on as a society. And like, people just don't want
• 1:55:39
  Speaker 1: to do that. They just turn off.
• 1:55:40
  Speaker 2: Which is such a shame for me because the drama,
• 1:55:43
  Speaker 2: I think the drama is such a fun movie and
• 1:55:46
  Speaker 2: it's such a good of how heavy that part of
• 1:55:48
  Speaker 2: it is. Somehow it's still fun.
• 1:55:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:55:50
  Speaker 2: Which I mean, again, I think is a testament to
• 1:55:52
  Speaker 2: everyone involved in that movie. And I think the drama
• 1:55:54
  Speaker 2: is up there for me for one of my favorite
• 1:55:57
  Speaker 2: films of the year, but it's, again, for it being
• 1:55:59
  Speaker 2: divisive because it chooses to tackle a topic that is
• 1:56:03
  Speaker 2: upsetting to some people but doesn't show anything, this shows
• 1:56:07
  Speaker 2: more than that does. I don't know. It's so weird
• 1:56:10
  Speaker 2: to rag on one movie for that but ignore another one.
• 1:56:13
  Speaker 2: It's like, oh, I guess because that one is serious
• 1:56:15
  Speaker 2: and this one's fun. And it's just like a throwaway
• 1:56:18
  Speaker 2: thing here. You forget about it by the end of
• 1:56:20
  Speaker 2: the movie because it ultimately doesn't fucking matter. Like it
• 1:56:22
  Speaker 2: literally doesn't matter, which is just, I don't know. You know,
• 1:56:26
  Speaker 2: it's that whole cult of cool thing, right? It's like, oh, well,
• 1:56:28
  Speaker 2: the most interesting thing from Phantom Menace was obviously Darth Maul.
• 1:56:31
  Speaker 2: And it's like, not fucking, not even close. Or Boba
• 1:56:35
  Speaker 2: Fett in all those, like the Star Wars first three,
• 1:56:38
  Speaker 2: like he was not the most interesting character. He's the
• 1:56:40
  Speaker 2: most cool looking, sure. But I don't think that was
• 1:56:42
  Speaker 2: the most interesting question I walked away from. And I
• 1:56:45
  Speaker 2: walk away from this movie.
• 1:56:46
  Speaker 1: We know it was taxation and trade routes, obviously. Well,
• 1:56:49
  Speaker 1: given the world we live in now, it's clearly that's
• 1:56:51
  Speaker 1: all it is. It's all come full circle.
• 1:56:55
  Speaker 2: It always just weirds me out that there are these
• 1:56:58
  Speaker 2: invisible lines people are unwilling to cross that have no
• 1:57:01
  Speaker 2: consistency whatsoever.
• 1:57:03
  Speaker 1: Like whatsoever.
• 1:57:04
  Speaker 2: And it's just cognitive dissonance of a kind that I
• 1:57:07
  Speaker 2: really have a hard time dealing with. Well, and that
• 1:57:10
  Speaker 2: was part of going back an episode, like that was
• 1:57:13
  Speaker 2: part of why, number one, I was surprised that that
• 1:57:16
  Speaker 2: last movie, Primetime, got made because of what it was about,
• 1:57:20
  Speaker 2: but then also was weirded out by how much it
• 1:57:23
  Speaker 2: didn't really have a serious enough tone about what it
• 1:57:26
  Speaker 2: was tackling. Now, granted, it was tackling a lot of
• 1:57:29
  Speaker 2: other stuff too, and still did a good job of
• 1:57:31
  Speaker 2: what it was trying to do, but I feel like
• 1:57:33
  Speaker 2: it glossed over the heaviest part of what was in
• 1:57:36
  Speaker 2: that story, maybe on purpose, because it.
• 1:57:39
  Speaker 1: Didn't want to. I'm thinking more and more to get
• 1:57:41
  Speaker 1: into it.
• 1:57:42
  Speaker 2: I watched it two more times since, and I don't
• 1:57:45
  Speaker 2: think that the movie's intention was ever.
• 1:57:48
  Speaker 1: To confront any of that.
• 1:57:49
  Speaker 2: Genuinely. But it's still such a part of that story.
• 1:57:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the problem.
• 1:57:54
  Speaker 2: It's like it's a movie about kid diddling. How do
• 1:57:58
  Speaker 2: you not deal with kid diddling in your movie?
• 1:58:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah. But yeah, something as big and mainstream as that
• 1:58:02
  Speaker 1: Giddy made, I also thought was weird because that's another
• 1:58:05
  Speaker 1: one of those that people just like, nope, I'm out,
• 1:58:07
  Speaker 1: I'm done. And like, well, yeah, rightful. so on that too.
• 1:58:11
  Speaker 1: But also, once again, if we don't examine what the
• 1:58:14
  Speaker 1: hell's going on here, it's never going to even lessen.
• 1:58:17
  Speaker 1: I don't know that you're ever going to stop it,
• 1:58:19
  Speaker 1: but you can't even begin to figure out what's going
• 1:58:22
  Speaker 1: on to try to deal with it. if we don't
• 1:58:25
  Speaker 1: look at the problem, it's like ignoring it doesn't make
• 1:58:28
  Speaker 1: the problem go away. Whether it's, you know, meeting kids
• 1:58:31
  Speaker 1: for cookies or shooting up a school. Like, All of
• 1:58:35
  Speaker 1: these are really heavy issues, but like, I think it's
• 1:58:38
  Speaker 1: okay to examine them. I think it's okay to make
• 1:58:40
  Speaker 1: a movie about them. It's just how you go about
• 1:58:43
  Speaker 1: doing it is, is the key effort. But sometimes people
• 1:58:46
  Speaker 1: just will not engage whatsoever.
• 1:58:48
  Speaker 2: Do you think there's any topic that's off limits for
• 1:58:50
  Speaker 2: film to tackle?
• 1:58:51
  Speaker 1: Cause I don't. Not really. Not if it's done right.
• 1:58:53
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's, I mean, we just not with, is
• 1:58:56
  Speaker 1: that not the most harsh ones right there that are
• 1:58:59
  Speaker 1: going to be the biggest problem you're going to have?
• 1:59:01
  Speaker 1: Like I can't, think of other things that are more
• 1:59:05
  Speaker 1: button pushing and that are going to turn people off more.
• 1:59:09
  Speaker 1: And we're seeing people do it on a regular basis.
• 1:59:12
  Speaker 1: So it's just most people don't want to have anything
• 1:59:14
  Speaker 1: to do with it is the problem. So I think, yeah,
• 1:59:17
  Speaker 1: as writers and filmmakers and actors, it's okay to delve
• 1:59:22
  Speaker 1: into that stuff as long as you find a way
• 1:59:24
  Speaker 1: to do something interesting with it and to be trying
• 1:59:27
  Speaker 1: to examine, again, the problem, not exploit the problem. And
• 1:59:31
  Speaker 1: that's what this feels like.
• 1:59:32
  Speaker 2: I mean, this, you know, I'm not going to say
• 1:59:34
  Speaker 2: like this feels like a response to the AI of today,
• 1:59:36
  Speaker 2: but it does. Like it doesn't say anything unique or
• 1:59:40
  Speaker 2: interesting enough. And it doesn't have, it doesn't follow down
• 1:59:43
  Speaker 2: the paths that it kind of creates for itself.
• 1:59:45
  Speaker 1: It kind of bulks at doing those where I'm like,
• 1:59:47
  Speaker 1: you know what?
• 1:59:48
  Speaker 2: I'm not going to say don't watch this movie because
• 1:59:49
  Speaker 2: Sam Rockwell's in it. And him being in anything I
• 1:59:52
  Speaker 2: think is a good thing, but it never lives up
• 1:59:55
  Speaker 2: to the premise. it crumbles under the weight of its
• 1:59:59
  Speaker 2: own high concept. More or less the moment they leave
• 2:00:02
  Speaker 2: the high concept kind of area of the film, it
• 2:00:04
  Speaker 2: starts falling apart. And that's a shame, because I had
• 2:00:07
  Speaker 2: no expectations for this movie, but by the end of
• 2:00:09
  Speaker 2: the two and a half hours, I was like, I'm
• 2:00:11
  Speaker 2: okay not coming back to this. It felt like it
• 2:00:15
  Speaker 2: had plenty of time to say what it needed to say,
• 2:00:17
  Speaker 2: and by the end of it, I was like, I
• 2:00:18
  Speaker 2: don't feel like you said anything. And maybe that's the case,
• 2:00:20
  Speaker 2: but I don't feel like the film was trying to
• 2:00:22
  Speaker 2: say nothing. And that's kind of the problem.
• 2:00:24
  Speaker 1: What if they did come back to it? What if
• 2:00:26
  Speaker 1: we got another loop at this movie with some carryover characters,
• 2:00:30
  Speaker 1: with new characters brought in? Would you be willing to
• 2:00:34
  Speaker 1: go down that road if they presented another one that's
• 2:00:37
  Speaker 1: at least kind of that same loose concept with a
• 2:00:41
  Speaker 1: new sci-fi nonsense thrown in? But why would it have
• 2:00:44
  Speaker 1: to be this? Well, I don't know. Why do they
• 2:00:47
  Speaker 1: hit all these sequels they make?
• 2:00:48
  Speaker 2: Well, this wasn't like financially successful enough to like warrant that.
• 2:00:52
  Speaker 2: I mean, in a world where that happened, sure, I'd
• 2:00:54
  Speaker 2: watch the next one. This because I've already watched one
• 2:00:56
  Speaker 2: and it's like going to be another hour and a half,
• 2:00:58
  Speaker 2: two hour movie. It's not going to be 10 hours
• 2:01:00
  Speaker 2: of television where, you know, I'm. fucking hate watching Walking
• 2:01:03
  Speaker 2: Dead season 12 because I, oh, sunk cost fallacy. It's like,
• 2:01:07
  Speaker 2: when you could have gotten off the train at any
• 2:01:08
  Speaker 2: point here. Like, I would watch another movie in this universe,
• 2:01:11
  Speaker 2: but I don't think they do anything in this universe
• 2:01:13
  Speaker 2: unique enough that someone else couldn't take this idea and
• 2:01:15
  Speaker 2: run further with it.
• 2:01:17
  Speaker 1: And do something more engaging with it.
• 2:01:18
  Speaker 2: I don't think they've done anything here unique enough to
• 2:01:22
  Speaker 2: warrant them being like, we're going to follow this further.
• 2:01:24
  Speaker 1: Like, I'm good. Like, I'm good. Yeah, I don't think
• 2:01:27
  Speaker 1: it's a good idea just based on how off the
• 2:01:31
  Speaker 1: rails this goes at points along the way. But again,
• 2:01:34
  Speaker 1: I think the ideas are interesting enough to have their
• 2:01:37
  Speaker 1: own movies. So like if they took one or two
• 2:01:40
  Speaker 1: of them and made a more focused movie and even again,
• 2:01:43
  Speaker 1: if we brought back and did another pass with Haley Lou,
• 2:01:46
  Speaker 1: like I could watch her do anything. So like if
• 2:01:48
  Speaker 1: you kept her, whether or not you can get Sam
• 2:01:51
  Speaker 1: Rockwell to come back, probably not. But I mean, if
• 2:01:53
  Speaker 1: you passed it off to her and gave her a
• 2:01:55
  Speaker 1: more interesting and better put together story, I would watch that. Again,
• 2:01:59
  Speaker 1: do I think it's a good idea? Probably not, no.
• 2:02:02
  Speaker 2: And that's the thing. It's like, I'm honestly, I'm Switzerland.
• 2:02:06
  Speaker 2: I would watch it, but I don't really need another one.
• 2:02:09
  Speaker 2: Sam Rockwell, I want him to go do other things.
• 2:02:11
  Speaker 2: I'm excited for him to be in that Martin McDonough
• 2:02:13
  Speaker 2: film later this year, who I'm a huge fan of
• 2:02:15
  Speaker 2: all of his works. And his work with Sam Rockwell,
• 2:02:17
  Speaker 2: I think for the most part, has been really great.
• 2:02:19
  Speaker 2: So I'm excited for that. But ultimately, at the end
• 2:02:22
  Speaker 2: of the day, I'm kind of just like, what a
• 2:02:23
  Speaker 2: bummer that this movie wasn't better. Because rarely do we
• 2:02:26
  Speaker 2: get Sam Rockwell as the lead in anything. Like, and that's, like,
• 2:02:29
  Speaker 2: for me, that's my, like, final takeaway from this movie is, like,
• 2:02:31
  Speaker 2: this is a Sam Rockwell-led movie and you fucked it up.
• 2:02:34
  Speaker 1: Shame on you. Like, shame on you. Like, he's such
• 2:02:36
  Speaker 1: a good actor. Like, come on. You took him away
• 2:02:38
  Speaker 1: from the movie eventually as time went on. Like, he
• 2:02:42
  Speaker 1: should be the lead throughout, but then you break up
• 2:02:45
  Speaker 1: the story into so many other side stories that he's
• 2:02:48
  Speaker 1: not part of that what is his screen time by
• 2:02:50
  Speaker 1: the end of it is, I guess, statistically, maybe he's
• 2:02:53
  Speaker 1: still the lead, but I don't know. I bet there's
• 2:02:56
  Speaker 1: a lot of time he's not on screen in this movie.
• 2:02:58
  Speaker 2: No, I'm sure that there is as well. And it
• 2:03:01
  Speaker 2: is not great. Like, I think that by the movie's end,
• 2:03:05
  Speaker 2: it's like, well, I'm here for Sam Rockwell and you're
• 2:03:07
  Speaker 2: not giving me that.
• 2:03:08
  Speaker 1: Like, I'm kind of out.
• 2:03:09
  Speaker 2: And that's, I think that's my, that's like I said,
• 2:03:12
  Speaker 2: I'm not disappointed by the movie because I didn't have
• 2:03:14
  Speaker 2: any expectations.
• 2:03:15
  Speaker 1: I just.
• 2:03:16
  Speaker 2: temper your expectations going into a movie with Sam Rockwell
• 2:03:19
  Speaker 2: as the lead, because it's not as exciting or fun
• 2:03:21
  Speaker 2: as you would hope it would be. And that I
• 2:03:22
  Speaker 2: think for me is the biggest missed opportunity.
• 2:03:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I think that's my takeaway is like, this is
• 2:03:28
  Speaker 1: one of those, and it's what I kept coming back
• 2:03:30
  Speaker 1: to in the middle of this is like, if you
• 2:03:32
  Speaker 1: don't go in with big expectations and you don't think
• 2:03:35
  Speaker 1: about it too much, not that I encourage people to
• 2:03:37
  Speaker 1: do that most of the time, but again, I feel
• 2:03:39
  Speaker 1: like that's the way a lot of regular, I always
• 2:03:42
  Speaker 1: use quotes around the regular movie people, I feel like
• 2:03:45
  Speaker 1: a lot of them are just there to watch something
• 2:03:47
  Speaker 1: and pass a couple hours and entertain them. And that's
• 2:03:49
  Speaker 1: all they want. And like, if that's all you want,
• 2:03:52
  Speaker 1: there are many entertaining things in this. There are great performances.
• 2:03:56
  Speaker 1: There's even some decent effects earlier on. But, like, by
• 2:03:59
  Speaker 1: the time you get to the end, if you don't
• 2:04:00
  Speaker 1: think about it too much, it's fine. It was an
• 2:04:02
  Speaker 1: entertaining movie. Now, if you want to stop and be, like,
• 2:04:05
  Speaker 1: an interesting moviegoer and dig into it and see what
• 2:04:08
  Speaker 1: else is going on there, then you're going to be
• 2:04:10
  Speaker 1: disappointed because it all falls apart. I did, like, looking
• 2:04:13
  Speaker 1: at the writer, he did do Love and Monsters, which
• 2:04:15
  Speaker 1: I remember... liking at the time i have not revisited
• 2:04:19
  Speaker 1: since like 2020 when it first came out but he's
• 2:04:22
  Speaker 1: not a bad writer but he's also done a lot
• 2:04:24
  Speaker 1: of weird stuff if you go back so maybe that
• 2:04:26
  Speaker 1: explains how uneven some of this is because he's also
• 2:04:29
  Speaker 1: the guy who wrote the story for monster trucks and
• 2:04:33
  Speaker 1: did the screenplay for door in the lost city of
• 2:04:35
  Speaker 1: gold so it maybe explains why it's a weird mixture
• 2:04:39
  Speaker 1: of things.
• 2:04:40
  Speaker 2: Monster Trucks, the film with the alien inside of the
• 2:04:43
  Speaker 2: monster truck flying around.
• 2:04:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, Monster Trucks, everyone's favorite film of 2016.
• 2:04:47
  Speaker 1: I never saw that movie. I didn't either. I saw
• 2:04:50
  Speaker 1: the trailer and went, what the hell is going on here?
• 2:04:53
  Speaker 1: So again, I factor that in. It starts to make
• 2:04:56
  Speaker 1: a little more sense. But I do remember liking Love
• 2:04:58
  Speaker 1: and Monsters. So he has skill. I just want to
• 2:05:02
  Speaker 1: see him make a better attempt with his next movie.
• 2:05:05
  Speaker 2: Well, didn't he also do with Ricky Gervais the invention
• 2:05:08
  Speaker 2: of lying, which is fun. I mean, it's insufferable because
• 2:05:11
  Speaker 2: it's Ricky Gervais.
• 2:05:12
  Speaker 1: Well, I was going to say, everyone kind of hates
• 2:05:14
  Speaker 1: Ricky Gervais at this point. So it's hard to take
• 2:05:16
  Speaker 1: anything he does without the Ricky Gervais of it all. Right.
• 2:05:20
  Speaker 1: Can't divorce him from that. Yeah. No, no, I get it.
• 2:05:23
  Speaker 1: I get it. But yeah, otherwise, I feel like We've
• 2:05:26
  Speaker 1: covered most of it there. Okay.
• 2:05:27
  Speaker 2: Well, on the next episode of the Culture Meltdown coming
• 2:05:30
  Speaker 2: to you next week on the CultureCast and Movie Meltdown feed,
• 2:05:34
  Speaker 2: you're going to hear Brian and I.
• 2:05:36
  Speaker 1: Well, we're taking a.
• 2:05:37
  Speaker 2: Little bit of a different direction with what we're doing.
• 2:05:40
  Speaker 2: We're not going to be doing another Sam Rockwell film.
• 2:05:43
  Speaker 2: We're going to be talking about a film that's a
• 2:05:47
  Speaker 2: Godzilla film.
• 2:05:48
  Speaker 1: So there's that. Boy, what a pivot, huh? kaiju people
• 2:05:51
  Speaker 1: love kaiju.
• 2:05:52
  Speaker 2: I love kaiju you love kaiju i'm all for it
• 2:05:56
  Speaker 2: who loves kaiju we love kaiju and we're going to
• 2:05:58
  Speaker 2: be joined on that episode by the projection booth mike
• 2:06:02
  Speaker 2: white it's going to be the three of us doing
• 2:06:03
  Speaker 2: a little godzilla action uh so come back for that
• 2:06:06
  Speaker 2: episode until then brian where can people find you and
• 2:06:09
  Speaker 2: the things that you work on once.
• 2:06:10
  Speaker 1: Again we are part of the weirding way media family
• 2:06:13
  Speaker 1: now so definitely go check out everything over there at
• 2:06:17
  Speaker 1: the spreaker site itself and it's got all the different
• 2:06:21
  Speaker 1: shows on there but in addition to that if you
• 2:06:24
  Speaker 1: just go to movie meltdown.com that will lead you to
• 2:06:26
  Speaker 1: all of the stuff we've got out and links to everything.
• 2:06:29
  Speaker 2: And as for me you know where to find me weirdingwaymedia.com
• 2:06:33
  Speaker 2: is the best place to find me and the shows
• 2:06:35
  Speaker 2: that i work on all of those shows uh are
• 2:06:38
  Speaker 2: can be found there i mean every single one uh
• 2:06:40
  Speaker 2: there's nothing that can't be found there other than on
• 2:06:42
  Speaker 2: patreon so i lied uh you can find the patreon
• 2:06:45
  Speaker 2: show at patreon.com slash culturecast or patreon.com slash projection booth
• 2:06:49
  Speaker 2: where Mike White and I, along with Richard Haddam, talked
• 2:06:51
  Speaker 2: about James Bond for far too long, which is like
• 2:06:54
  Speaker 2: years we talked about James Bond. Started at the beginning
• 2:06:56
  Speaker 2: and ended at what is presumably the end of at
• 2:06:59
  Speaker 2: least James Bond as we recognize it. So if you
• 2:07:01
  Speaker 2: want to contribute and hear those shows ad-free and exclusive
• 2:07:05
  Speaker 2: on Patreon, $ 10 level on mine and Mike's Patreon is
• 2:07:08
  Speaker 2: how you can do that. So head on over there, like, rate,
• 2:07:11
  Speaker 2: and review this show on iTunes and then Spotify. Hit
• 2:07:14
  Speaker 2: up Brian's show, hit up my show, hit up the
• 2:07:16
  Speaker 2: other shows, and leave a review. It helps us out
• 2:07:18
  Speaker 2: more than money ever could But money's nice, too. So
• 2:07:21
  Speaker 2: and yeah, come on back for the next episode when
• 2:07:23
  Speaker 2: Brian and I sit down and talk about Godzilla with Mike.