Latest / Pod Therapy / #344: Religion in Therapy, Mother's Affair, Friend's Suicide

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#344: Religion in Therapy, Mother's Affair, Friend's Suicide · Pod Therapy

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Speaker 1: You just just murder them.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, three can keep a secret if two are dead.
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Speaker 2: That's right, that's the deal.
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Speaker 3: From Fabulous Las Vegas, Nevada. This is pod therapy, real people,
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Speaker 3: real problems, and real therapists. And this episode has made
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Speaker 3: possible by our therap partners. Dirty being Pickett because I
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Speaker 3: almost forgot. But you can submit a question to the
0:24
Speaker 3: show anonymously at podtherapy dot net or email. It's the
0:27
Speaker 3: pod therapy guys at gmail dot com and now broadcasting
0:31
Speaker 3: from the Turn.
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Speaker 4: That's Jim. That's with me. I'm Nick. It's time for
0:34
Speaker 4: some pod therapy.
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Speaker 2: You're wondering which of your pod therapy hosts is the
0:37
Speaker 2: best driver or has done the most bad things? Patroon
0:41
Speaker 2: dot com slash therapy we compare war or who is
0:45
Speaker 2: very Lucky to be alive? There are several stories of this.
0:54
Speaker 3: It's really good to put life into perspective.
0:57
Speaker 4: I think it does.
0:58
Speaker 3: Like everything that happens in my life moving forward, I
1:01
Speaker 3: should just be like you know what I shouldn't.
1:05
Speaker 2: You don't deserve any of them. You've gotten a lot
1:09
Speaker 2: more than you deserve. It was supposed to be done
1:11
Speaker 2: a long time ago. Check it out patroon dot COM's
1:14
Speaker 2: lash Therapy. We always have a little pre show hangout
1:17
Speaker 2: that you can listen to. Lots of different things get
1:20
Speaker 2: discussed and just a fun time. So if you've bonded
1:23
Speaker 2: with us over time and thought, you know what, I'm
1:24
Speaker 2: just gonna start listening to this thing a little bit
1:26
Speaker 2: more and kind of getting to know these people a
1:28
Speaker 2: little bit more, you can and don't report us to
1:30
Speaker 2: the cops if you sign on to the Patreon. I
1:33
Speaker 2: think there's an implicit agreement that everything is not reportable. Okay, yeah, yeah, actually, good,
1:39
Speaker 2: good note Whitney. We need to write up an NDA
1:41
Speaker 2: and just make that part of somehow the membership.
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Speaker 1: Just when you sign up for Patreon signed the automatically
1:47
Speaker 1: the conditions that you just check.
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Speaker 4: I don't do it.
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Speaker 3: I don't do a very good job of promoting our
1:53
Speaker 3: Patreon and really trying to sell it. Yeah yeah, but
1:56
Speaker 3: if you are not a Patreon go fuck yourself. This
2:00
Speaker 3: week would be a good week because Jim does his
2:02
Speaker 3: impression of a Hispanic one.
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Speaker 4: Ok that's true.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, it's an excellent time, yeah to out Jim's impression.
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Speaker 2: She was costa Rican, Okay, which I feel I honored
2:16
Speaker 2: in the way I presented it. Agreed, there's a little dialect.
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Speaker 1: There's some dialect difference's impression spot on.
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Speaker 4: I think it was as good as it could have
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Speaker 4: possibly been.
2:28
Speaker 2: That's good. It was better than anybody thought it was
2:33
Speaker 2: gonna be.
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Speaker 1: I also don't do a good job of pushing the
2:36
Speaker 1: Patreon in here. But it occurs to me that having
2:39
Speaker 1: everybody sign an n d A about the show that
2:42
Speaker 1: would like them to tell other people about isn't a
2:45
Speaker 1: good way to promote the show.
2:47
Speaker 2: But you know, you'll see tell anybody about it. It's
2:52
Speaker 2: funny how often that is the show, what he's doing.
2:56
Speaker 4: Please don't tell anybody that is how Jim would like
2:58
Speaker 4: the show. Debate it is it is. Jim would very
3:00
Speaker 4: much like it to just be like a few more people.
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Speaker 1: Everybody on the Patriot, everybody real happy, and nobody mentioned
3:06
Speaker 1: it to anyone.
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Speaker 4: Take this to your grave.
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Speaker 3: It's kind of this is the speakeasy of podcast.
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Speaker 2: There you go, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, we're happy you
3:14
Speaker 2: found us and we want you to have a good
3:16
Speaker 2: time while you're here. But there's no sign in the window. Okay,
3:20
Speaker 2: you got to say a word when you knock on
3:22
Speaker 2: the door. You gotta know somebody. They better have brought
3:24
Speaker 2: you anyway. Patron dot com slash therapy check it out.
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Speaker 2: We got some great questions for today's show, and the
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Speaker 2: first one I think is very interesting religion in therapy
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Speaker 2: from anonymous Hello Whitney, Nick doctor smith in Reverend Jim.
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Speaker 2: Longtime listener, first time writer.
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Speaker 4: And that's what you need to get from Jim.
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Speaker 2: Oh oh yeah, he just keeps taking him. Yeah, yeah,
3:51
Speaker 2: Lin the go I do have that.
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Speaker 1: I think I'm already Yeah, I think you've already done this,
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Speaker 1: You've already licensed yourself. So because I can definitely marry Pete,
4:00
Speaker 1: I can matter. And I think I'm I think I'm
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Speaker 1: ordained by one of the no by two churches. Okay,
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Speaker 1: so the Pastafarians aren't one of them. One of them
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Speaker 1: is like an online thing. And I think I'm I
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Speaker 1: think I'm ordained by the Church of Bacon. Okay, Yes,
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Speaker 1: I feels I'm not sure.
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Speaker 2: I might not be ordained by that. I'm not married
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Speaker 2: in a house of Bacon. My question is around oh sorry,
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Speaker 2: long time listener, first time writer and big fan of
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Speaker 2: what you all do for mental health. My question is
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Speaker 2: around religion in therapy and seeking therapy as an atheist.
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Speaker 2: For grins, I searched the pod therapy archive for atheist
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Speaker 2: topics and got precisely one hit, all the way back
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Speaker 2: to episode twenty damn in twenty eighteen, So naturally I
4:44
Speaker 2: figured I had to listen. Also, naturally, it didn't answer
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Speaker 2: my question.
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Speaker 4: I would have been surprised if it.
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Speaker 2: I just like that, that's assumed. Yeah, and naturally, of
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Speaker 2: course I assumed it. Fucking pod therapy doesn't answer anything.
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Speaker 2: But I did learn that atheism ruined Mother's Day and
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Speaker 2: Jim as an ordained minister. Okay, good, it came out.
5:03
Speaker 2: For a little background, My therapeutic needs include anxiety, perfectionism, hypervigilance,
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Speaker 2: and difficulty opening up to others. I've tried therapy off
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Speaker 2: and on for a few years with multiple therapists with
5:15
Speaker 2: okay but not amazing results. Most recently, I ended with
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Speaker 2: a therapist after three months when I realized that her
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Speaker 2: inner bonding approach involves a heavy dose of religion. I
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Speaker 2: made clear at the outset that I'm an atheist and
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Speaker 2: thought everything was okay until she gave me homework handouts
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Speaker 2: with sections entitled your Soul is Immortal and proof of heaven.
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Speaker 4: Boy, that's a lot on these good geese. Yeah.
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Speaker 2: When he said the inner bonding thing, I was like,
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Speaker 2: I don't know.
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Speaker 4: Maybe that's what she was religious based on that.
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Speaker 2: Weird rather than ghost her as would have been my instinct,
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Speaker 2: and then you would have had to come back three
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Speaker 2: days later. There it is, there it is.
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Speaker 4: You got it?
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Speaker 2: Well, I did have a copy, rather than ghosters would
6:03
Speaker 2: have been my instinct. I did have a conversation about
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Speaker 2: the topic, but she didn't acknowledge any problem on her side,
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Speaker 2: instead repeatedly changing the topic to my reaction to religion. Previously,
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Speaker 2: I've depended on the therapist that determine treatment approaches since
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Speaker 2: I assume that they are the expert. I will not
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Speaker 2: do that going forward, since it seems that I need
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Speaker 2: to keep one eye out for religious therapists. Or put
6:27
Speaker 2: another way, I'm pretty sure she left me worse off
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Speaker 2: than when I started, regarding hypervigilance and difficulty opening up
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Speaker 2: to others and anxiety. So I have two questions. First,
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Speaker 2: given how religious the US is, is it even reasonable
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Speaker 2: to expect a US therapist not to bring religion into
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Speaker 2: therapy or is this just something that atheists have to tolerate
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Speaker 2: in the therapy room same as in everyday life, and
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Speaker 2: am I just maybe being a little oversensitive? Second, do
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Speaker 2: you have any thoughts on how to better approach therapy
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Speaker 2: when the patient is hyper vigilant and has difficulty trusting
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Speaker 2: and opening up like me? Thanks again for all the
7:09
Speaker 2: enjoyable banter. Anonymous pronouns are he and him.
7:13
Speaker 3: Okay, there's a lot of areas that I want to
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Speaker 3: jump in. Number one, I think, uh, your search is
7:21
Speaker 3: probably speaks more to the effectiveness of our search engine
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Speaker 3: than it does about us discussing the topic, because I
7:28
Speaker 3: feel like we've discussed it at nauseum.
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Speaker 2: There's a lot of Patreon content. Oh that's true, the paywall. Yeah,
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Speaker 2: the titles of episodes won't usually have the word atheist
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Speaker 2: in it, But we've we've had questions that are about.
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Speaker 4: This good point, I think.
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Speaker 3: Okay, So first off, I'm going to give you a
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Speaker 3: resource writer the Second Bible.
7:52
Speaker 2: Let me give you this, understand it.
8:00
Speaker 3: The Secular Therapy Project. Okay, it's a website, Secular Therapy
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Speaker 3: dot org. So there's a lot of people that are
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Speaker 3: in your exact position, who are who identify as agnostic,
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Speaker 3: atheist or both. And want a therapist, but really have
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Speaker 3: trouble finding a therapist that isn't going to bring religion
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Speaker 3: into the therapy office. And so the Secular Therapy Project
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Speaker 3: is all about being able to connect those people with therapists. So,
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Speaker 3: if you are listening to this and you are a
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Speaker 3: therapist and you want to register with the Secular Therapy Project,
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Speaker 3: you can do that through their website or you can
8:42
Speaker 3: register as a client and it will help r It
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Speaker 3: breaks it down by a country, which there aren't many countries,
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Speaker 3: looks like maybe seven or eight, and state thy name, yeah,
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Speaker 3: and state, so you can identify you can find a
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Speaker 3: therapist in your state.
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Speaker 2: That's huge.
8:59
Speaker 3: Who's part of the Secular Therapy Project? So check them out.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's cool. What what do y'all think about the
9:05
Speaker 2: writer's question about is everybody in the US so religious
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Speaker 2: that it's unreasonable to expect a therapist not to a
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Speaker 2: be religious and be impose that in therapy. I understand
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Speaker 2: why he would think that.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, depending on where you live in the States too.
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Speaker 2: First, that's gonna change things a lot.
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Speaker 3: I do think just in general, Yes, in the world,
9:27
Speaker 3: you're you're living in what feels like a very Christian society.
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Speaker 2: You're just saying that because our money has it on it.
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Speaker 4: Yeah, that's all. That's all, And.
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Speaker 1: Our government and officials keep insisting on putting the Ten
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Speaker 1: Commandments on walls of classrooms.
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Speaker 3: I'm only in I'm only getting that sense because it's true.
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Speaker 3: But I think as you go into the therapy realm,
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Speaker 3: as far as the population of therapists, I do feel
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Speaker 3: like it is.
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Speaker 4: A little bit more secular.
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Speaker 2: It is.
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Speaker 4: However, they may be ditching the ideas of belief in
10:03
Speaker 4: Christ for crystals.
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Speaker 2: Right, you brought that up.
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Speaker 5: So, yes, I really agree with you, because like when
10:15
Speaker 5: I'm the quack, Yeah, so I.
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Speaker 2: Completely agree with you, because like when the writer says,
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Speaker 2: a man, is everybody going to be like religious? I
10:25
Speaker 2: get that way.
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Speaker 3: I'm sorry you gifted us a couple of crystals last.
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Speaker 2: Time that.
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Speaker 6: I have.
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Speaker 4: Here for good.
10:40
Speaker 2: Yeah, over here somewhere fishing away on the voodoo. No,
10:44
Speaker 2: but that part is true. Like, I don't think if
10:47
Speaker 2: you go through like a hundred therapists in your area
10:50
Speaker 2: depending upon where you live, right, because if like you're
10:51
Speaker 2: in the Bible Belt, then that's different. The population is
10:54
Speaker 2: going to be representative. But I think that the therapist
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Speaker 2: population will not be per capita as representative as your
11:00
Speaker 2: community when it comes to religiosity.
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Speaker 1: And that's because when you think that the therapists, if
11:05
Speaker 1: you have a city of a thousand and fifty percent
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Speaker 1: of those people are religious, you think of that same city,
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Speaker 1: less than half of the of the therapist would be religious.
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Speaker 2: As a trend, yeah, I do think that. And again
11:17
Speaker 2: we live in the Western United States and it is
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Speaker 2: much less religious like and that is very well known
11:23
Speaker 2: unless you're Mormon. Unless you're Mormon, and then yeah that
11:26
Speaker 2: at home. Yeah, but you know, yeah, so like overall,
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Speaker 2: I would say, no, there's not like a high correspondence
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Speaker 2: of people that are highly religious ending up in therapy
11:34
Speaker 2: or as therapists. But what Nick said is also true.
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Speaker 2: The profession has struggled in I think the last twenty
11:41
Speaker 2: years of adopting idioms, concepts, and philosophies and practices from
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Speaker 2: fundamentally religions and then trying to neutralize that and be
11:52
Speaker 2: like no, no, no, no, no, no no, I'm not converting
11:54
Speaker 2: anybody to Hinduism. I'm not trying to get serious about Wiccanism.
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Speaker 2: I'm not. But it's like, but I do believe in
12:00
Speaker 2: like chakras and teaching you about energy and teaching you
12:03
Speaker 2: about karma. Like I went on that podcast which is
12:07
Speaker 2: now no longer exists with fresh episodes called Very Bad Therapy,
12:10
Speaker 2: and the episode I was on was answering a question
12:12
Speaker 2: somebody wrote in about a therapist doing all these They're
12:16
Speaker 2: fundamentally they were Hindu practices, but they were like couching
12:19
Speaker 2: them as I am a new age energy spirit therapist,
12:24
Speaker 2: but no, not religious, Like no, I do not believe
12:26
Speaker 2: in any religion. I don't attend anything anywhere. I don't
12:27
Speaker 2: have any title. But I really believe that we need
12:30
Speaker 2: to get your energy clear so that you can ascend.
12:34
Speaker 2: And like we had to talk about how fucking enlightenment
12:36
Speaker 2: is not a treatment goal, like you can't do that.
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Speaker 2: But there is this infiltration.
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Speaker 3: This is really interesting because if okay, you guys have
12:44
Speaker 3: seen like the rock gardens or whatever, or the amaze
12:49
Speaker 3: sand gardens there where you like rake, oh yeah, yeah,
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Speaker 3: Like that's traditionally associated with Buddhism, right, I had one
12:59
Speaker 3: of those in my off us. Sure, and I didn't
13:01
Speaker 3: have it because I but it is tied to that
13:06
Speaker 3: belief system. That's not really why I had it. I
13:08
Speaker 3: had it because it was nice to look at and
13:11
Speaker 3: people could rake it and sometimes if they're actively doing something,
13:15
Speaker 3: then they're more open to talk. But it is interesting
13:18
Speaker 3: because I never really thought about that, but even for me,
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Speaker 3: it crept into my office.
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Speaker 2: Not counting the crystals, a lot of that stuff comes.
13:30
Speaker 2: A lot of stuff predates religion anyway, and it was
13:32
Speaker 2: incorporated into There's a lot of therapists that do not
13:36
Speaker 2: ironic crystal shit, that are like literally like okay, so
13:40
Speaker 2: I really want you to take this stone with you
13:42
Speaker 2: and embodies this kind of empowerment, and like, I'm fine
13:44
Speaker 2: with symbolism, Like I've given patients chips, you know, AA
13:49
Speaker 2: chips that I've bought online whenever they hit their one
13:52
Speaker 2: year and like, because I believe in the symbolism too, even
13:54
Speaker 2: though that's a different organization, even if they're not a
13:56
Speaker 2: part of it. It says one year sober, and it'll
13:58
Speaker 2: have something like be true to you yourself on it,
14:00
Speaker 2: and I'll be selective. I'll pick something with a quote
14:02
Speaker 2: that I know that they empathize with, and I'll give
14:05
Speaker 2: you oh Lord Jesus, yeah, yeah, praise praise Lord our
14:07
Speaker 2: God who got us this. No, but I'll give them
14:09
Speaker 2: that and say, look, I know you don't go to AA,
14:10
Speaker 2: but you know I've been with you for over a year.
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Speaker 2: You've been sober for a year. I wanted us to
14:14
Speaker 2: celebrate that and wanted to give you a token that
14:16
Speaker 2: you know, just respects what we did. Yeah, so I
14:18
Speaker 2: bought you this and also a card. So yeah, like this.
14:22
Speaker 2: You know, I'm fine with symbolism, and I think you're right,
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Speaker 2: Like it's amazing the drip drip drip of general religiosity.
14:28
Speaker 2: And that's what's interesting about the writer situation. There can
14:31
Speaker 2: be situations where somebody could have taken offense to that
14:34
Speaker 2: and then like, Nick, I told you I'm atheist, What
14:37
Speaker 2: the hell is with this zen garden? Yeah, And it's like, oh,
14:40
Speaker 2: oh shit, you're you're overthinking about I'm an atheist too,
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Speaker 2: Like you really don't. Well, no, I'm not, Like I
14:46
Speaker 2: told you this, and you're telling me as an intervention,
14:49
Speaker 2: you want me to engage with this. You're buy the
14:51
Speaker 2: book quoting you know, Siddartha, And it's like fuck and
14:54
Speaker 2: so like if that happened in this situation, I could
14:57
Speaker 2: be forgiving of it, but boy, these handouts don't fuck
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Speaker 2: it seem like an as this is like your soul
15:03
Speaker 2: is immortal and what was it proof of heaven?
15:06
Speaker 4: Yeah or something like that. That's interesting.
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Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah, the handouts are pretty over the top. Where
15:13
Speaker 7: my mind went is this new, I guess new ish
15:16
Speaker 7: movement of therapists to be more themselves. I'm saying that
15:21
Speaker 7: in quotes like self disclosure kind of like hey, I'm
15:26
Speaker 7: a person too, and like I'm meeting you where we're at,
15:28
Speaker 7: and this whole therapy thing is like us working together,
15:32
Speaker 7: so in that they believe like you should.
15:36
Speaker 6: I don't either.
15:37
Speaker 2: I agree.
15:38
Speaker 1: I'm just imagine going into a therapist's office and then
15:40
Speaker 1: start telling me about themselves and like supposed to care
15:46
Speaker 1: exactly do I get paid for this part of the session?
15:48
Speaker 4: What's happening here?
15:49
Speaker 7: You are spot on, Jacob. That's how I feel about
15:52
Speaker 7: it too, And you know, I get.
15:55
Speaker 4: You're building my insurance from this part.
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Speaker 2: Yeah.
16:00
Speaker 4: Yeah.
16:00
Speaker 7: Basically that's their you know, belief or whatever that they.
16:05
Speaker 2: Want to disclose a lot about themselves, which I've seen
16:09
Speaker 2: hit and miss right, Like, as a general rule, I
16:11
Speaker 2: don't like it. And of course I think we've all
16:13
Speaker 2: selectively self disclosed stories that we feel are in the
16:16
Speaker 2: best interest in the client, not because we need to
16:18
Speaker 2: reveal something or confess something, but because this is relevant
16:21
Speaker 2: to what we're talking about.
16:22
Speaker 6: This will help our report somehow.
16:24
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like random example, there's a lot of female therapists
16:27
Speaker 2: that might be working with the patient who's going through
16:29
Speaker 2: a miscarriage, and they might say, as we go through
16:31
Speaker 2: the journey together, I want you to know that I've
16:33
Speaker 2: been through it, and Okay, you just told me something
16:35
Speaker 2: very serious about yourself without.
16:37
Speaker 6: Going into all the details, like it was ten years at.
16:40
Speaker 2: Me, you know, but I'm letting you know that I've been.
16:42
Speaker 6: In I can understand a little bit.
16:44
Speaker 2: And for many patients, if the therapist reads that correctly
16:46
Speaker 2: and realizes I believe this isn't their best interest to
16:48
Speaker 2: hear that, patient might say thank you, like that really
16:51
Speaker 2: does give me confidence that we're going to I'm in
16:53
Speaker 2: the right place. But you're right. There's a ton of
16:55
Speaker 2: people now that are like, so I need to tell
16:57
Speaker 2: you everything I believe, and that gets fucking weird, it is,
17:00
Speaker 2: and they start getting like, I'm like anti racist. So
17:03
Speaker 2: these are my ten political positions, and here's what I'm
17:05
Speaker 2: voting for, and I've donated a Kamala and you should too,
17:07
Speaker 2: and it's like this is not therapy anymore, this is proselytizing.
17:11
Speaker 6: I wonder too.
17:12
Speaker 7: I had a friend who when they sought out therapy,
17:15
Speaker 7: they went almost they were atheist, but they went almost
17:18
Speaker 7: for like a little bit of like how religion traumatized them.
17:22
Speaker 6: So the therapist they sought out worked.
17:25
Speaker 7: With people who were leaving religion, typically Mormons, because we
17:28
Speaker 7: do live in this in this area the world. But yeah,
17:33
Speaker 7: my friend was not Mormon, but they like connected to
17:36
Speaker 7: their therapists like that. And I don't know, I guess
17:41
Speaker 7: when you're seeking it, yeah, maybe using like next resource.
17:43
Speaker 6: That's a really cool resource.
17:45
Speaker 7: I always thought people who were very Christian and therapists
17:49
Speaker 7: just wrote that in their bio like I'm a Christian therapist,
17:54
Speaker 7: or this is the because you can share that.
17:57
Speaker 2: Like I'm comfortable with therapists putting that in there, disclosure
18:01
Speaker 2: of like upfront and so being like, look, I don't
18:03
Speaker 2: want to hide this from you because that really might
18:05
Speaker 2: be an issue for you and so or that might
18:07
Speaker 2: be something that's very important to you, right and so
18:10
Speaker 2: like im.
18:11
Speaker 6: Handouts, you need to write that in your bio.
18:14
Speaker 4: For sure, because I was going to say that too.
18:16
Speaker 3: Like, I think as far as writing in your bio,
18:19
Speaker 3: I think the more it gets, the more you feel
18:23
Speaker 3: it could get introduced into therapy, the more you should
18:25
Speaker 3: include in your bio. If it's not going to be
18:28
Speaker 3: brought in, then there's no sense.
18:30
Speaker 2: And I would add to that, Like in my case,
18:32
Speaker 2: I put in my bio that I come from the
18:34
Speaker 2: Christian background.
18:35
Speaker 3: But I think that you do that because you want
18:39
Speaker 3: other people who also identify with that belief to see
18:43
Speaker 3: that that's exactly understand what they're so.
18:45
Speaker 2: Exactly and that's that's the the the addendum I would
18:47
Speaker 2: add to that last sentence of put it in because
18:50
Speaker 2: you know you can't help that coming up. That's why
18:53
Speaker 2: I can absolutely help coming like it's not going to happen,
18:56
Speaker 2: but like, and that's that's one of the best compliments
18:58
Speaker 2: I've received is whenever person ended up working with me
19:02
Speaker 2: and then after a certain amount of time together, they said,
19:04
Speaker 2: you know, I ended up picking you because I thought
19:06
Speaker 2: you were the right fit for me, but I really
19:07
Speaker 2: struggled because you did write a Christian thing about yourself
19:11
Speaker 2: and I am absolutely not about that, and I was
19:13
Speaker 2: really scared you were going to bring it up and
19:16
Speaker 2: you've never mentioned it, You've never brought this up, and
19:19
Speaker 2: like I was really reassured by that. Man, I just
19:21
Speaker 2: want to thank you for that. And it made me
19:23
Speaker 2: happy and sad, like happiness sense of like great, I'm
19:26
Speaker 2: glad you got great care, and I'm really glad that
19:29
Speaker 2: you gave this a chance and it worked for you
19:31
Speaker 2: and that I didn't screw it up. But then sad
19:33
Speaker 2: that like.
19:34
Speaker 8: You're not Christian, well yeah, right, Sad that you don't
19:36
Speaker 8: believe in Jesus, Sad that.
19:39
Speaker 2: You would you you are surprised, Sad that you were
19:44
Speaker 2: surprised that I didn't, like you don't expect your regular
19:47
Speaker 2: fucking doctor to say shit about their religion. Like you
19:51
Speaker 2: walk in and your doctor is, you know, Indian, and
19:53
Speaker 2: you know that they're Hindu or whatever, and then like, great,
19:56
Speaker 2: I have a fucking cough, you know, please get some
19:58
Speaker 2: momoxacil an end.
19:59
Speaker 1: How the whole cost does that doctor speak.
20:05
Speaker 2: Patreon dot COM's last year I'll be taking all requests
20:09
Speaker 2: and we'll be doing that at the end of the show.
20:10
Speaker 7: Well, but your doctor doesn't list that before you go
20:12
Speaker 7: into an appointment, like the right you know, like so
20:16
Speaker 7: you're already there, and then you might make assumptions based
20:18
Speaker 7: on certain things if you choose to do that.
20:20
Speaker 6: But like, yeah, I think writing it in your bio.
20:23
Speaker 6: I like hearing you say that.
20:26
Speaker 7: You know, I would avoid picking you as a purpose,
20:28
Speaker 7: but it's fair that you're like, well, I'm not bringing
20:31
Speaker 7: it up unless it's needed.
20:31
Speaker 6: I'm trying to just reach Yeah, it's a risk.
20:34
Speaker 2: That I decided to take because I knew that it
20:36
Speaker 2: was like, look, I do come from this background, and
20:39
Speaker 2: for those who are from that background, just like the
20:41
Speaker 2: ex Mormon, they they do feel sometimes like I really
20:44
Speaker 2: do want to know that you speak my language. Yeah,
20:46
Speaker 2: And that's always been really helpful because when I do
20:48
Speaker 2: get a religious person, especially if they come from Christian traditions,
20:52
Speaker 2: one of the things I'm really proud of is because
20:54
Speaker 2: of the theological background, I can figure out which kind
20:57
Speaker 2: of church they go to, and that really helps, you know,
21:00
Speaker 2: Like if they're like, oh, I'm Pentecostal, I'm like, yeah, okay, great,
21:03
Speaker 2: I can make ten more assumptions about the way you
21:05
Speaker 2: see the world, and that's going to be really important
21:08
Speaker 2: right now. And like, just because I understand them, that
21:11
Speaker 2: gives us a leg up and there.
21:12
Speaker 1: Right, and you don't if any snakes get it at
21:13
Speaker 1: the office, they'll be able to get rid of them.
21:15
Speaker 3: Yeah.
21:15
Speaker 2: Yeah, I call him first.
21:18
Speaker 6: They're trying to leave that there's snakes in your own writer.
21:22
Speaker 2: I think we're all like affirming you a little bit
21:24
Speaker 2: and comforting you that we don't expect this to be
21:27
Speaker 2: a regular thing. I don't think it's extremely common. I
21:30
Speaker 2: don't think that you should have to anticipate it. But yeah,
21:34
Speaker 2: this sounds shitty. I mean I disliked that that.
21:38
Speaker 3: Yeah, goodness, Okay, here's the other thing though, writer, Uh,
21:43
Speaker 3: kudos to you for bringing it up and actually like
21:46
Speaker 3: confronting the therapist.
21:48
Speaker 6: That you heard that that was impressed.
21:55
Speaker 4: Exactly what I was thinking, because it's like, it.
21:57
Speaker 2: Sounds like you're really hardening your heart to Jesus, you know,
22:02
Speaker 2: the Gospels is foolishness to those who are parents to
22:05
Speaker 2: Roman religion. Let me just show you this verse that
22:07
Speaker 2: kind of describes how you're being a bit right, yea
22:13
Speaker 2: religion problem. Yeah, writer, this person doesn't sound like they
22:23
Speaker 2: handled this very well. And you know, I again, this
22:26
Speaker 2: to me comes back to bad training, and I'm this
22:30
Speaker 2: is something that I'm really fucking on my soapbox about
22:33
Speaker 2: that I want us as a profession. It's it's honestly
22:36
Speaker 2: one of the big ones. Values imposition is one of
22:39
Speaker 2: my biggest fucking gripes about the profession. And this is
22:42
Speaker 2: adjacent and connected to it of this way of like, no, no, no,
22:45
Speaker 2: I'm trying to heal you because my religion teaches this,
22:48
Speaker 2: and if only you could see that, you wouldn't be
22:50
Speaker 2: depressed anymore. And like that totally makes sense because I
22:52
Speaker 2: know so many therapists they're like, Okay, you're depressed. I
22:55
Speaker 2: need to help you see a theological epiphany about eternity
23:00
Speaker 2: or your human value.
23:01
Speaker 4: Is that helped me?
23:02
Speaker 2: And it's like that great, that that fucking helped you.
23:05
Speaker 2: That in no ways what you were trained in in
23:07
Speaker 2: grad school, now nobody did a fucking lesson on that,
23:10
Speaker 2: and how you're supposed to cure mental illness with that
23:13
Speaker 2: you're bringing it in for the writer in this scenario.
23:17
Speaker 1: I kind of have advice in two different scenarios with
23:20
Speaker 1: the same type of thing.
23:21
Speaker 4: Uh.
23:21
Speaker 1: In this scenario, A, I think you did everything right, Yeah,
23:26
Speaker 1: you know, talking to the therapist about it, all those things.
23:28
Speaker 2: I think you did everything right.
23:30
Speaker 1: Uh, bring it to their attention that like, hey, this
23:32
Speaker 1: isn't this isn't really what I'm signed up for.
23:35
Speaker 2: Uh.
23:35
Speaker 1: I would encourage you with your therapists going forward, be
23:38
Speaker 1: it this one or a different one. Uh, worry worry
23:43
Speaker 1: less about them and more about you, Like you're there
23:47
Speaker 1: for you.
23:48
Speaker 4: I don't mean for that to come off flippantly. I
23:50
Speaker 4: really don't.
23:51
Speaker 1: Uh, but like keep in mind, you're paying for this,
23:54
Speaker 1: Your interest is paying for it, your job is paying
23:55
Speaker 1: for it. However you're however you're getting this. If you're
24:00
Speaker 1: there for you, you're paying for a service.
24:03
Speaker 4: Uh.
24:04
Speaker 1: If they are being unprofessional about it, that doesn't mean
24:07
Speaker 1: that you have to stop acquiring that service. Point you
24:11
Speaker 1: can correct them and you can say, look, this is
24:13
Speaker 1: this doesn't work for me. I want to go in
24:16
Speaker 1: a different path. But you know there's no reason to
24:20
Speaker 1: just cut it entirely.
24:22
Speaker 4: Uh.
24:23
Speaker 2: Now then finding a different therapist or whatever, that's not
24:24
Speaker 2: what I mean. I mean, like.
24:27
Speaker 1: Not going to a therapist because you have If you
24:30
Speaker 1: saw that they're religious on their website or anything like that,
24:33
Speaker 1: I'd encourage you to to not make that a disqualifier
24:36
Speaker 1: because like like everybody's been saying, Uh, there is professionalism.
24:40
Speaker 1: Plenty of religious therapists or people who are religious who
24:44
Speaker 1: are therapists, Uh, can practice secuarly all that kind of stuff.
24:48
Speaker 4: And don't don't sweat the.
24:50
Speaker 1: Fact that you live in a country where a lot
24:53
Speaker 1: of people disagree with your beliefs.
24:55
Speaker 4: That's you know, that's that's that's what they're going to do.
24:58
Speaker 2: Don't worry about it. H They're fine.
25:01
Speaker 4: I like that, And I mean, at the end of
25:03
Speaker 4: the day, have you tried opening your heart.
25:07
Speaker 6: And that'll help up to others in anxiety?
25:14
Speaker 2: There's one way to fix that second question. You tried
25:17
Speaker 2: getting on your knees and just confessing with your heart
25:22
Speaker 2: and believing in your mind.
25:23
Speaker 4: I always love.
25:24
Speaker 3: That though, that that that's the thing is like, well,
25:28
Speaker 3: you have to believe first in order to believe.
25:32
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, sure, you gotta start there. It'll happen.
25:37
Speaker 4: Make it you make it?
25:38
Speaker 2: Maybe the mystery of face.
25:41
Speaker 4: Hey, don't don't bring fake it till you make it?
25:43
Speaker 2: This are you telling me that's right?
25:45
Speaker 4: You're right? I'm sorry?
25:46
Speaker 2: How dare I selly a good name? Fake it so
25:49
Speaker 2: you make Yeah, clearly you're but no. One of the
25:52
Speaker 2: things that I dislike about this too that makes me
25:54
Speaker 2: really just beyond itchy. Is again kind of the gaslighting
25:57
Speaker 2: joke of like, oh, well, you seem resistant to religion
26:01
Speaker 2: or religion seems very triggering to you. And and honestly,
26:04
Speaker 2: if that was brought up, there is a voice that
26:07
Speaker 2: I will accept that. Yes, but it really is. If
26:09
Speaker 2: I'm supervising that therapist, I'm sitting there with them, like
26:12
Speaker 2: you seem to be onto something, ask another question, Yes, Whitney,
26:17
Speaker 2: this is fucking triggering. I don't like it. I am
26:19
Speaker 2: an atheist on purpose. I have had religious trauma. I
26:22
Speaker 2: hate this shit and that's why I told you I
26:24
Speaker 2: don't want it. And like, okay, now, if I'm supervising, Whitney,
26:26
Speaker 2: I'm playing her saying go, sounds like your client really's pissed.
26:30
Speaker 2: What do you think is that something you think you
26:32
Speaker 2: need to fix or respond to? Should you fucking change course?
26:36
Speaker 2: And like, yeah, I probably shouldn't give him handouts with
26:39
Speaker 2: fucking crosses on it. Yeah maybe not.
26:41
Speaker 4: You know, good ideas.
26:42
Speaker 2: I feel like you're your therapist almost is right there
26:45
Speaker 2: about to realize they fucked up, But is starting it
26:48
Speaker 2: from this position of gully You seem certainly really triggered
26:50
Speaker 2: right now, and I think you just say yes, yeah.
26:52
Speaker 7: So you know, like pointing out certain things is okay
26:54
Speaker 7: in therapy, but in that stance, it's like you asked
26:57
Speaker 7: you inform them in the beginning you are, and then
27:01
Speaker 7: bringing up Christianity is more bizarre, so they shouldn't.
27:04
Speaker 4: It feels like they're making an excuse after the fact
27:08
Speaker 4: that you're.
27:09
Speaker 6: Yeah, right, well what about the second thing?
27:11
Speaker 2: They asked about how to open up?
27:13
Speaker 6: Yeah, when you're hyper vigilant last poet.
27:16
Speaker 2: In the first thing, I had a patient years ago
27:19
Speaker 2: who was an atheist, and I knew that it was
27:21
Speaker 2: something we had discussed. And they had said, look, they
27:24
Speaker 2: had actually heard me about therapy, and they were like,
27:25
Speaker 2: but I know that you're not an asshole about it.
27:28
Speaker 2: You're an asshole many other ways, but not about this.
27:30
Speaker 2: I don't give a shit, but hey man, this is
27:32
Speaker 2: important to me, Like, don't cross that line. I was like, yeah,
27:33
Speaker 2: fuck it, I don't care, Like, let's like about your ship.
27:35
Speaker 2: And so for a long time we worked on this
27:37
Speaker 2: person's shit. We were very successful, and one day they
27:39
Speaker 2: had said, hey, can you give me any book recommendations
27:42
Speaker 2: about this particular topic the Bible? Yeah, yeah, yeah, let
27:46
Speaker 2: me tell you about a little thing called the Bible. No,
27:49
Speaker 2: but I had recommended a book that had to do
27:52
Speaker 2: with relationships, and I just thought, you know it. Actually
27:56
Speaker 2: never read this book, but it's the one that everybody references,
27:59
Speaker 2: and so it's one of those ones he just blindly
28:01
Speaker 2: and we all have that. We all have several texts.
28:04
Speaker 2: Everybody poops, Yeah, we all have several texts that you
28:06
Speaker 2: just you know, people bring up a certain topic and
28:10
Speaker 2: you go, oh, yeah, Brene Brown, The Power of Vulnerability
28:14
Speaker 2: or whatever. It's like, okay, you've read that. I have not,
28:17
Speaker 2: but the crowd tells me I can probably trust this recognition.
28:22
Speaker 2: So I gave one of those titles that I was like, yeah,
28:24
Speaker 2: try this book. It's about relationships and I've heard good things. Great.
28:29
Speaker 2: So the person gets it, reads it and comes back
28:32
Speaker 2: and they're like, so listen, man, Luckily you and I
28:36
Speaker 2: are really close and I know your heart's in the
28:38
Speaker 2: right place. And I was like, oh, fuck, what have
28:40
Speaker 2: I done? And they were like, brother, that that book
28:43
Speaker 2: is have you read it? And I was like, no,
28:45
Speaker 2: I haven't. It was something bad about it, and they
28:47
Speaker 2: were like, yeah, man, it is written from a Christian perspective, like,
28:51
Speaker 2: there's the whole fucking preamble is that God loves marriage,
28:54
Speaker 2: and here's how we're going to make this work. And
28:56
Speaker 2: these are eight godly principles to acquiring a good marriage.
28:59
Speaker 4: Oops.
28:59
Speaker 2: And I was like, son of a bitch, I fucked
29:03
Speaker 2: up bad. And they were like you did, and they
29:06
Speaker 2: were firm with me, but also kind to maintain the
29:09
Speaker 2: therapy relationship, like but I believe with my you meant
29:13
Speaker 2: no disrespect, but you stepped on a rake. And I
29:16
Speaker 2: was like, okay, are you okay? Like that? So the
29:18
Speaker 2: posture I flipped to me and he's like, oh, which
29:20
Speaker 2: fuck's your problem?
29:20
Speaker 4: You know?
29:21
Speaker 2: Once? Just get the good stuff and leave the no
29:23
Speaker 2: immediately pivot to I've put something into your life on
29:26
Speaker 2: my credibility that is distinctly something you are allergic to.
29:31
Speaker 2: Are you all right? I hope that you didn't push
29:33
Speaker 2: yourself to keep reading that based on my I hope
29:35
Speaker 2: you put it the fuck away and threw it away.
29:37
Speaker 2: And they were like, yeah, man, I plugged through it
29:38
Speaker 2: a little bit to honor you, because I assumed you
29:40
Speaker 2: recommended it knowing this, And then I finally stopped and realized,
29:46
Speaker 2: I think I'm giving Jim way too much credit, and
29:48
Speaker 2: I don't think he's read this book. And he's like, luckily,
29:51
Speaker 2: I know you well enough that I stopped, and I
29:53
Speaker 2: was like, but we were able to get the car
29:56
Speaker 2: righted back on the road. We talked it out, we
29:58
Speaker 2: made it right, and I on the rake, just like
30:00
Speaker 2: this person's therapist did. That's the right posture, though. It's apologetic.
30:04
Speaker 2: It's thank you for teaching me this if you didn't
30:07
Speaker 2: already know it, and I apologize.
30:10
Speaker 3: So you didn't try to guess in that case?
30:12
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, yeah, well not about what I mean. I
30:14
Speaker 2: guess everybody all the time. But yeah, just you fucking
30:17
Speaker 2: eat crow and you're just like, no, there's one hundred
30:19
Speaker 2: percent my fault, And are you okay?
30:21
Speaker 4: You know?
30:21
Speaker 2: Like how I want to put things that are helpful.
30:23
Speaker 1: I like how the point of Jim's story is not
30:26
Speaker 1: he recommended a book to a client that he had
30:28
Speaker 1: not himself read about. His point of the story was
30:33
Speaker 1: how he handled the situation correctly.
30:35
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, Whitney, and I did not jump in on
30:38
Speaker 3: that point because every therapist has done.
30:40
Speaker 8: Yeah.
30:40
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was waiting. I was waiting if any one
30:43
Speaker 2: of them picked up a stone.
30:49
Speaker 3: People in the world, people who pee in the pool,
30:51
Speaker 3: and people who lie about it.
30:55
Speaker 2: There was a strange silence in the studio. Nobo. He
30:58
Speaker 2: took the shot. He was taking. What the fuck is
31:00
Speaker 2: going on around here?
31:02
Speaker 7: I'm guilty of like reading half the book. I'm like,
31:04
Speaker 7: this is good, and I never finished a lot of recommendation.
31:07
Speaker 2: You'll flip through the table of contents on Amazon and
31:10
Speaker 2: just be like, Okay, yeah, this is good. This is good,
31:12
Speaker 2: this is good, and then you'll send it and be like,
31:14
Speaker 2: this thing is like kind of about Mormonism is really.
31:19
Speaker 6: Sorry.
31:21
Speaker 2: One chapter one, angels are real and this is why.
31:26
Speaker 6: You shouldn't be depressed there in the outfield.
31:28
Speaker 4: Angels of the outfield.
31:29
Speaker 2: Yeah, Danny Glover will lead you to freedom. So the
31:31
Speaker 2: other part about just a few words on how do
31:34
Speaker 2: we encourage people that are struggling with hypervigilance, fear of vulnerability.
31:39
Speaker 2: How do we give them that extra kick to say, hey,
31:42
Speaker 2: some tips on opening up, some tips about like leaning
31:45
Speaker 2: in on the therapy experience, saying more words and not
31:48
Speaker 2: being afraid. How do you guys tend to kind of
31:51
Speaker 2: stir the pot a little bit when you get somebody
31:52
Speaker 2: who's a little bit walled off, seems to be struggling
31:55
Speaker 2: a little bit. If they say, you know, how do
31:58
Speaker 2: I do this? What kind of advice would you give them?
32:04
Speaker 6: The little lip smack.
32:07
Speaker 7: Man, I really do in my therapy sessions just in general,
32:12
Speaker 7: I really focus on rapport building, and I tell them
32:14
Speaker 7: about my console call. I'll go over the types of
32:17
Speaker 7: therapy I feel like most confident in and that I
32:20
Speaker 7: would utilize, and then I say, my opinion and research
32:23
Speaker 7: shows that that therapeutic relationship is the most important to
32:26
Speaker 7: be the most helpful. So that is what I primarily
32:30
Speaker 7: focus on in the beginning, and most of the time
32:34
Speaker 7: that works. Even with some of my toughest clients, it
32:37
Speaker 7: just takes a little longer for them to get in there.
32:40
Speaker 7: I might utilize other tactics, like I think I've mentioned
32:45
Speaker 7: this before if we're in person, this is what kind
32:47
Speaker 7: of sucks about virtual, But in person, I would use
32:50
Speaker 7: like a little card prompting game. Okay, so it's not
32:54
Speaker 7: as like interrogation, but more like my chance, like this
32:58
Speaker 7: one just happened, I felt like, tell me about that.
33:00
Speaker 7: So it takes some of that pressure off, Like, because
33:03
Speaker 7: I think sometimes people who might relate to this client
33:07
Speaker 7: or to this writer, are like maybe on edge a
33:11
Speaker 7: little bit, like why are they.
33:13
Speaker 6: Asking this question?
33:14
Speaker 7: Or like, you know, you're trying to be a step ahead,
33:16
Speaker 7: which comes from trauma, which comes That's where that hyper
33:19
Speaker 7: vigilance is coming from.
33:20
Speaker 6: And it's like trying to be two steps ahead to
33:22
Speaker 6: keep yourself safe.
33:23
Speaker 7: But in a therapeutic environment, you want to make your
33:25
Speaker 7: client or try to help your client feel as comfortable
33:27
Speaker 7: as possible.
33:28
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm on your side. I tend to take accountability
33:31
Speaker 2: as the therapist to get them ten percent better at this,
33:35
Speaker 2: you know, And it doesn't mean they're going to be
33:37
Speaker 2: the person in a month that I'm such a good
33:39
Speaker 2: therapist that they're like opening up and like telling me everything.
33:41
Speaker 2: Yeah no, But for them, we're doing a lot of
33:44
Speaker 2: emotional yoga and they used to be pretty rigid, and
33:46
Speaker 2: I'm noticing they're a little bit more flexible.
33:48
Speaker 6: Yes, yes, that is the progress I will see them.
33:50
Speaker 2: Like for you, you're doing so good right now?
33:53
Speaker 4: Yeah right?
33:53
Speaker 2: They told me an emotion word about your like one,
33:56
Speaker 2: I'm like so proud of you. How did you feel?
33:59
Speaker 2: If I can be on us a little angry? Wow,
34:01
Speaker 2: that's gigantic, I know.
34:03
Speaker 6: Instead of like not good.
34:06
Speaker 2: An addictions work. We've had a lot of people with
34:07
Speaker 2: some tall walls. Yeah, that's a big part.
34:09
Speaker 3: But so here's the thing that I my advice to
34:12
Speaker 3: this as actually more for anybody who's listening who is
34:15
Speaker 3: a therapist or training to become a therapist, or learning
34:18
Speaker 3: about becoming a therapist. I'm going to answer from that perspective,
34:22
Speaker 3: which is we already heard Jim's soapbox. Okay, on values
34:27
Speaker 3: in position. Here's my soapbox. My soapbox is on treatment planning.
34:31
Speaker 2: I knew it here's going.
34:36
Speaker 3: I would say ninety eight percent of all therapists, and
34:39
Speaker 3: I feel real confident saying, God, here we get ninety
34:43
Speaker 3: eight percent of therapists do not know how to use
34:46
Speaker 3: treatment planning as a therapeutic intervention.
34:49
Speaker 2: No, that is true. Yeah, never mind.
34:51
Speaker 3: The majority of the majority of therapists, if they or counselors,
34:55
Speaker 3: when they use a treatment plan, they use it for
34:58
Speaker 3: just well, this is a treatment plan, that's it. They
35:01
Speaker 3: look at it as just this is just notes, this
35:06
Speaker 3: is part of documentation. We just have to have this aim.
35:09
Speaker 3: You're missing a huge opportunity if you're using treatment planning
35:15
Speaker 3: as a therapeutic intervention. It's so beneficial because anytime that
35:21
Speaker 3: when my clients leave that first session after we've done
35:23
Speaker 3: a treatment plan, they are leaving optimisticing.
35:29
Speaker 4: They're leaving with.
35:30
Speaker 3: A sense of oh my god, I can actually do this,
35:34
Speaker 3: and they're leaving with and I've got somebody who's going
35:36
Speaker 3: to help me do it.
35:37
Speaker 2: And the objectives are clear, and that also involves them.
35:41
Speaker 2: They know what they need to do.
35:43
Speaker 3: They have objectives, and then the therapist has interventions. Okay,
35:48
Speaker 3: so it's like it's both of us coming together and
35:51
Speaker 3: saying you're going to do this, and I'm going to
35:53
Speaker 3: support you by doing this, and we're putting it down
35:56
Speaker 3: on paper. And that's how you use treatment planning as
35:59
Speaker 3: a therapeutic intervention.
36:00
Speaker 7: Yeah.
36:01
Speaker 3: So for the writer, there's you don't have a part
36:04
Speaker 3: of that. This is this is it comes back to
36:06
Speaker 3: the therapist.
36:07
Speaker 7: Yeah, and I agree. I wonder though, like from a
36:11
Speaker 7: client's or patient's perspective, how would you give like a
36:16
Speaker 7: client advice like going into therapy, how to open up,
36:20
Speaker 7: how to open up?
36:21
Speaker 4: I don't think. I don't think that's your job, right A.
36:27
Speaker 2: Yeah, I like that the writers aware that they need
36:29
Speaker 2: to be challenged to do better. I think.
36:33
Speaker 4: I would recommend to the writer.
36:36
Speaker 6: If you're not opening up, you're not ready, or then
36:39
Speaker 6: you're not.
36:39
Speaker 4: Trying and you want them, I think you go.
36:44
Speaker 3: My suggestion would be to go into each session feeling
36:47
Speaker 3: like you've pushed the envelope just a little bit.
36:49
Speaker 2: I love that. Yeah, that's the emotion.
36:51
Speaker 3: Just get just get just a little bit outside your
36:54
Speaker 3: comfort zone and and that's fine, and that's all you
36:56
Speaker 3: have to do. You're not responsible for anything else. You
37:00
Speaker 3: up right outside of your comfort zone, you know, and
37:02
Speaker 3: then you'll let the professional deal with yes, everything around it.
37:06
Speaker 4: Now.
37:06
Speaker 2: A trick that you can use on your side of
37:08
Speaker 2: the street, regardless of who the therapist is, is taking
37:12
Speaker 2: an emotional inventory daily and weekly. And this is something
37:16
Speaker 2: that we do a lot in addictions treatment because a
37:18
Speaker 2: lot of people with addiction problems are self medicating their
37:21
Speaker 2: emotions and completely unaware of them. And so one of
37:25
Speaker 2: the ways that we start getting that emotional vulnerability to
37:27
Speaker 2: show up and start getting them to access authenticity and
37:30
Speaker 2: even notice what the hell they're feeling and what's going
37:32
Speaker 2: through is kind of highs and lows, and we'll start
37:35
Speaker 2: having them track every day, Hey, what was your high?
37:37
Speaker 2: Point today? What was your low point today? And then
37:39
Speaker 2: they'll write that down and then we'll kind of get
37:41
Speaker 2: them to start using more words to describe that. What
37:43
Speaker 2: was that like for you? Why did that suck? What
37:45
Speaker 2: is that something that's been a pattern in your life? Oh?
37:48
Speaker 2: Somebody cut you off in traffic? Has that historically always
37:50
Speaker 2: bothered you? Do you tend to get angry in traffic?
37:53
Speaker 2: And we just keep asking questions and we're trying to
37:55
Speaker 2: get that person to access more and more insight and
37:58
Speaker 2: become more and more comfortable saying words and using language
38:01
Speaker 2: to describe themselves. So an emotional inventory writer that you're
38:05
Speaker 2: kind of journaling, that's saying, hey, what did I feel today?
38:08
Speaker 2: Downloading an emotional vocabulary list? I like that huge the
38:12
Speaker 2: wheel of feel, you know, getting some people, Yeah, come
38:15
Speaker 2: back to that, And I think if we can just
38:17
Speaker 2: get you to a place where you are like noticing,
38:21
Speaker 2: what were my emotions today? Can I use those words?
38:24
Speaker 2: Can I write those words down? And then you come
38:27
Speaker 2: into a therapist and they say, you know, most of us,
38:29
Speaker 2: I think start sessions almost always the same way with
38:33
Speaker 2: so before we get into anything big or follow up
38:35
Speaker 2: on any homework or anything like that, how are you?
38:37
Speaker 2: Let me just check in on you, and we all
38:39
Speaker 2: have different ways to inaugurate that, but there's a great
38:43
Speaker 2: opportunity in that window for you to say, yeah, I've
38:45
Speaker 2: actually kind of been tracking kind of what's up and
38:48
Speaker 2: down in my life over this last week. Would you
38:51
Speaker 2: like me to share some of that? And most of
38:52
Speaker 2: are like fuck, yeah, you know, we love that shit.
38:54
Speaker 2: Please bring it in hot and that's great. Then you
38:56
Speaker 2: can jump in and go. So my boss asked me
38:59
Speaker 2: to come to a me first thing in the morning
39:01
Speaker 2: on Thursday, and Wednesday night you sent me the email,
39:04
Speaker 2: and I felt really anxious about that and really frightened
39:06
Speaker 2: about that, and I was sure I was going to
39:07
Speaker 2: get fired. And I was up until one am looking
39:11
Speaker 2: up other jobs and frantically applying for them, thinking I
39:13
Speaker 2: was gonna get fired the next day. Wonderful work. You
39:16
Speaker 2: are being vulnerable. You were telling me about your fear
39:19
Speaker 2: of failure. You're telling me about, you know, panicking. What
39:21
Speaker 2: happened that next morning? Nothing. He just wanted me to,
39:24
Speaker 2: you know, ask if I could come in an hour
39:26
Speaker 2: earlier the next week. Okay, great, what did you feel?
39:29
Speaker 2: So now here we are, we're doing it. We're therapizing. Yeah,
39:31
Speaker 2: because you initiated with inventoring your emotional truth. So writer,
39:36
Speaker 2: that's that's a trick that you can do. But we
39:39
Speaker 2: have a lot of students, interns in colleagues who listen
39:42
Speaker 2: to our show more than I think I should. It
39:45
Speaker 2: is terrifying, and I think all three of us have
39:47
Speaker 2: a lot of notes for all of our friends, because
39:50
Speaker 2: we want to make sure the therapist is doing their
39:51
Speaker 2: job to invite you in. You sound willing, and as
39:55
Speaker 2: long as I have a patient who is willing and
39:57
Speaker 2: they're showing up and they're willing to try, and they
40:00
Speaker 2: can tell me, hey, I suck at this, but you
40:02
Speaker 2: have permission to pull that thread. I will, but you
40:05
Speaker 2: have to keep in mind right or this is my
40:06
Speaker 2: last thought on this. We're very good at reading humans,
40:11
Speaker 2: but we also obey what you say most of the time.
40:14
Speaker 2: And so if you don't seem to be giving me
40:16
Speaker 2: permission to ask more questions, if I think I'm making
40:19
Speaker 2: you uncomfortable, I will stop. I will be polite, and
40:23
Speaker 2: I will not continue. And then you might think, gosh,
40:25
Speaker 2: he was almost you know, if you just would have
40:26
Speaker 2: pushed a little bit further, I probably would really opened
40:28
Speaker 2: up look, man, I'm not a fucking Jedi. You know,
40:31
Speaker 2: I can't read your mind and so, but what helps
40:33
Speaker 2: is when people admit to me. Yeah, I need to
40:35
Speaker 2: try harder. What helps is when people admit to me
40:37
Speaker 2: early in the work. Jim, I want you to know
40:39
Speaker 2: I struggle with opening up and being vulnerable. I don't
40:43
Speaker 2: know how to fix that, but you have permission to try.
40:46
Speaker 2: And if I ever seem uncomfortable, I want you to
40:49
Speaker 2: try to help me open up about something. Maybe check
40:52
Speaker 2: on me, take my temperature, and ask if it's okay
40:53
Speaker 2: to keep going. But Jim, I'm here to do that.
40:56
Speaker 2: And I've had folks do that. Yeah, and then they're
40:58
Speaker 2: also a tough whatever. But you gave me permission. You
41:01
Speaker 2: said you have permission to challenge me, and I go, great,
41:03
Speaker 2: and I'll write that ship down in my fucking notes
41:06
Speaker 2: and I'll refer back to it because then when the
41:08
Speaker 2: day comes that I do, I'm like, hey, Whitney, I
41:10
Speaker 2: just want to remind you when we first met, you're
41:15
Speaker 2: kind of a winch. I used to do that.
41:17
Speaker 4: I used to do that in an addictions treatment.
41:19
Speaker 3: Yeah, I would say, like in the very beginning, when
41:22
Speaker 3: I first started meeting with clients, I would say, I
41:24
Speaker 3: would ask them, Hey, when I if I start to
41:27
Speaker 3: notice something and it seems to me like you're falling
41:30
Speaker 3: back in your addiction, how do you want me to approach?
41:32
Speaker 3: Oh that's yep, ball or yeah, and then and then
41:35
Speaker 3: that way. When that happens, then I'm just I go
41:37
Speaker 3: back to my notes. I'm like, well, I remember you
41:40
Speaker 3: told me this is how you wanted this, right.
41:42
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's like you're.
41:43
Speaker 6: Asking a kid, how do you want your punishment to me?
41:46
Speaker 2: Well? No, but that really does work because it's a
41:48
Speaker 2: consent of the governed thing and you have the social agreement,
41:50
Speaker 2: you know. And then Nick will be like, hey, do
41:53
Speaker 2: you remember when we first met, you told me this
41:55
Speaker 2: is how you want to be addressed. Yeah, I'm addressing
41:58
Speaker 2: you like this today, buddy, because it's control. We need
42:00
Speaker 2: to work on this.
42:01
Speaker 1: I'm gonna keep addressing you like this until you say
42:03
Speaker 1: the safe word.
42:06
Speaker 2: It's always pineapple.
42:07
Speaker 3: It's agreed, open palm is fine.
42:09
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right. Writer. Anyway, good luck with them. Okay,
42:14
Speaker 2: don't be afraid, as Jacob said, continue to go to
42:17
Speaker 2: get what you need out of this and teach your
42:20
Speaker 2: therapist along the way. But This is something that we
42:23
Speaker 2: call a rupture in the therapeutic relationship, and sometimes therapy
42:26
Speaker 2: can recover from it. We can get the car back
42:28
Speaker 2: on the road. I told the story about where it
42:29
Speaker 2: happened to me, And sometimes the patient says, you know what,
42:32
Speaker 2: I'm just not feeling respected by you. I don't feel
42:35
Speaker 2: like you're trying to get the cart back on the
42:38
Speaker 2: fucking road. And I'm scared that you're gonna keep doing this.
42:41
Speaker 2: We're not a good fit. So I hope that that
42:43
Speaker 2: doesn't happen here. I hope you're able to recover the relationship.
42:46
Speaker 2: I encourage you to approach with that open mind and
42:48
Speaker 2: try to clear the air and say, look, I'm not
42:49
Speaker 2: calling you a bad person. I'm not calling you a
42:51
Speaker 2: bad therapist. I do have resentment about religion. It is
42:55
Speaker 2: a trigger for me. I'm telling you that up front.
42:58
Speaker 2: That's not something to be fixed, that's something to be honored.
43:01
Speaker 2: I'm asking you to respect my cultural and anti religious
43:05
Speaker 2: views or call it religious uws or whatever. Use that language.
43:08
Speaker 2: And most therapists have a little alarm bell that will
43:10
Speaker 2: sing in their head that goes, oh shit, that's right,
43:13
Speaker 2: I'm supposed to respect ethical boundaries of culture and social.
43:16
Speaker 6: Back a little wonky there.
43:18
Speaker 2: Yeah, so sometimes you got to use the words. But anyway,
43:21
Speaker 2: we're gonna take a quick break in when we come back,
43:23
Speaker 2: we're gonna talk about handling my mother's affair from Anonymous.
43:28
Speaker 3: Today's episode is brought to you by Smitty Scoop, Mason Miller,
43:31
Speaker 3: Tess Miller, Biler, t Haaris, Team Monaco, Oscar Swanros.
43:36
Speaker 4: Hannah, Marie, and Emma Kane. Would you like to sponsor
43:39
Speaker 4: to the show.
43:39
Speaker 3: Become a therapety sure at patreon dot com slash therapy.
43:44
Speaker 3: Because we had so many trivia questions from him, I'm
43:47
Speaker 3: trying to space those out so I never have to
43:50
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, we do, we do. And so I'm trying
43:54
Speaker 3: to space those out so I never have to come
43:55
Speaker 3: up with trivia again. And I went back into the archives.
43:59
Speaker 3: I got some bulk trivia the Myra sentence.
44:02
Speaker 2: Oh cool.
44:03
Speaker 4: So I'll tell you this before we get to that trivia.
44:05
Speaker 1: There was a whole bit on whichever channel I was
44:09
Speaker 1: watching the Olympics on about how they need to just
44:11
Speaker 1: put Snoop Dogg on a horse so he can also
44:14
Speaker 1: win a medal at these Olympics.
44:16
Speaker 4: He's been doing everything else.
44:18
Speaker 1: And I was like, lymp this, this announcer agrees with
44:21
Speaker 1: the gym that the horse is doing all the work.
44:22
Speaker 2: The horse is doing it, snoop, just hold on, yeh,
44:26
Speaker 2: hold on.
44:26
Speaker 3: Did you see the guy that was doing the shooting.
44:29
Speaker 3: I think he was from Turkey.
44:30
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, dude, yeah, fucking has his hand in Yeah,
44:33
Speaker 2: just fire. The only thing missing was a cigarette. I
44:39
Speaker 2: believe it was a non smoking arena.
44:40
Speaker 4: That's the reason.
44:43
Speaker 1: Didn't have the lenses, didn't have the ear plugs, didn't
44:45
Speaker 1: have Apparently he like just started doing it too as
44:48
Speaker 1: a hobby.
44:49
Speaker 4: Yeah.
44:49
Speaker 1: I read a little article about him that I've now forgotten,
44:52
Speaker 1: but it was something like his wife wanted him out
44:54
Speaker 1: of the house.
44:54
Speaker 4: Oh there was.
44:55
Speaker 2: Really something just dumb like that. He's got gray hair,
44:59
Speaker 2: like he's just fit. Yeah, he's just yelling like I
45:01
Speaker 2: don't know, I came.
45:02
Speaker 3: Here, I want to medal and I don't know if
45:05
Speaker 3: this is true or not. We were talking about this
45:07
Speaker 3: the other night. I went out to smoke a cigar
45:10
Speaker 3: with one of my golfing buddies. He was talking about it,
45:12
Speaker 3: and he said that afterwards he was interviewed. He recently
45:16
Speaker 3: got divorced from his wife, and in his interview he
45:20
Speaker 3: said to his wife, if you're watching, I want my
45:23
Speaker 3: dog back.
45:28
Speaker 4: I don't know if that's true. I wanted to I
45:31
Speaker 4: could just be from the onion.
45:34
Speaker 2: Now that you've won the silver medal in the Olympics
45:36
Speaker 2: and you're an international like idea, what would you like
45:40
Speaker 2: to say, you bitch, thank you?
45:44
Speaker 4: I want him back. I mean, this guy should be
45:46
Speaker 4: the national symbol for Turkey. For yes, for sure, my
45:50
Speaker 4: spirit edible.
45:51
Speaker 2: He should be president.
45:53
Speaker 3: Two points on the fly, one point with options. What
45:56
Speaker 3: is the highest grossing holiday movie of all time?
45:59
Speaker 2: Oh, my god, I'm gonna I'm gonna.
46:01
Speaker 4: Pick the low hanging fruit and say home Alone.
46:04
Speaker 2: Oh that's a good choice.
46:06
Speaker 4: So I don't know what holiday highest.
46:09
Speaker 2: Grossing of all die hard count I consider it a
46:14
Speaker 2: Christmas too, but I don't think it's going to gross.
46:16
Speaker 6: It is like Nightmare Before Christmas a holiday.
46:19
Speaker 2: Man, right, I'll bet you that's close.
46:22
Speaker 7: I was gonna say, like Muppets Christmas Carol because that
46:25
Speaker 7: ship I feel like Chris one of.
46:26
Speaker 2: The Christmas Carols is very strong. I love that movie,
46:29
Speaker 2: by the way, or is it going to be a
46:30
Speaker 2: long running one? Is it gonna be like the Peanuts.
46:33
Speaker 6: Put yeah, the Pumpkin, Charlie Brown.
46:36
Speaker 2: Right, I'm gonna go with Miracle on thirty fourth Street.
46:39
Speaker 4: That's okay, So you're going on a fly.
46:41
Speaker 2: To I'm going to go on the I'm gonna wait.
46:43
Speaker 2: So you're a miracle on thirty fourth Street.
46:45
Speaker 4: You're and you're you are? What what did I say?
46:48
Speaker 4: Home alone?
46:49
Speaker 2: Okay? I gotta wait. I'll wait on.
46:53
Speaker 4: El ship die Hard. Oh, it's a wonderful life home alone.
47:00
Speaker 6: It's a wonderful life, is my guess.
47:02
Speaker 2: Damn it. I don't think it's gonna be a wonderful I
47:04
Speaker 2: was gonna say it's a wonderful life, and then I
47:06
Speaker 2: decided I didn't feel like it was a Christmas enough movie.
47:09
Speaker 7: I don't know what highest grossing means that like opening
47:11
Speaker 7: day in a movie theaters, total gross.
47:15
Speaker 2: It was gonna be total grossing, wonderful. I think you
47:18
Speaker 2: got man.
47:19
Speaker 1: I was thinking Elf too. I was thinking Elf and
47:21
Speaker 1: die Hard were my two. I'm mad that they're both
47:23
Speaker 1: on there.
47:24
Speaker 7: When you said miracle, I was like, there's another black
47:26
Speaker 7: and white.
47:27
Speaker 2: I'll go. I'll take die Hard.
47:30
Speaker 4: Okay, it is home alone? Oh, got that right? Get
47:34
Speaker 4: that right?
47:34
Speaker 2: I got somebody got that right.
47:36
Speaker 6: You can see the answer.
47:38
Speaker 2: Nobody cares weird. Nick keeps winning, so weird.
47:42
Speaker 4: Okay.
47:42
Speaker 3: My cology, I think is how this is spelled m
47:45
Speaker 3: y c O l O g y. Mycology is the
47:50
Speaker 3: scientific study of what fungus. Final answer. You said that
47:56
Speaker 3: very confidently, So I'll wait for options.
47:59
Speaker 4: I'll go fungus. I'll ride with j on this my
48:02
Speaker 4: man ride or that's my best friend Jacob.
48:06
Speaker 2: Everybody was revealed in the last episode of this tattoo
48:11
Speaker 2: on my.
48:13
Speaker 3: Cancer cells flowers, fun guy or blood. I'm sorry, No,
48:20
Speaker 3: you said fungus. That's singular.
48:25
Speaker 2: It was an entire field of study only fus.
48:34
Speaker 4: We've named this mushroom Edward. So I'll go fun guy.
48:39
Speaker 4: We're the same fun guy. I was desperately hoping that
48:44
Speaker 4: it would be a crash the star. Okay.
48:48
Speaker 3: The first vaccine was for witch diseaselo. Yeah, I think
48:53
Speaker 3: it's polio. It seems I'm gonna go for t on poo.
48:58
Speaker 2: I'll join the tribe.
49:00
Speaker 4: Okay, that's highlight that ship.
49:03
Speaker 2: Now, I kind of think that's wrong. Go ahead, no,
49:05
Speaker 2: because I'm kind of thing.
49:06
Speaker 4: We're all wrong on there.
49:14
Speaker 2: Damn it.
49:15
Speaker 4: Okay, so I got three one.
49:19
Speaker 2: I mean, you'll give it to us, but a nice
49:23
Speaker 2: guy yourself.
49:25
Speaker 4: I knew one of the last people to to get polio.
49:28
Speaker 4: Oh wow, yeah, he just died this last year.
49:30
Speaker 1: But but I knew he was one of the last
49:31
Speaker 1: people to get polio before the vaccine.
49:33
Speaker 4: Wow.
49:34
Speaker 2: Wow, that's crazy. Handling my mother's affair from anonymous short question,
49:41
Speaker 2: how should I interact with my mother after discovering her affair?
49:45
Speaker 2: Not sexually? Do I have a shot?
49:50
Speaker 4: What's your.
49:52
Speaker 2: I mean, maybe we don't know where this is going.
49:54
Speaker 2: We should get the dats.
49:55
Speaker 4: I don't know if you should join it.
49:57
Speaker 2: That's what you're asking, you know, Let's see what the
49:59
Speaker 2: question is right backstory, My mom has had a long
50:03
Speaker 2: history of marital affairs. My first awareness of them was
50:05
Speaker 2: back in high school when I discovered that she was
50:07
Speaker 2: cheating with my dad's coworker. It was a very emotional
50:11
Speaker 2: time where she was kicked out, but asked to be
50:14
Speaker 2: back in the family and forgiven. My dad forgives and
50:17
Speaker 2: moves on, stating that he doesn't want to see her
50:20
Speaker 2: homeless and he doesn't want us to be without a mom.
50:23
Speaker 2: She also fell for a scam where this guy talked
50:27
Speaker 2: to her via the Internet and promised a life together,
50:29
Speaker 2: but he funneled ten thousand dollars out of my mom
50:33
Speaker 2: scam until we found out and stopped it. The most
50:36
Speaker 2: recent occurrence on July fourth, I checked her location to
50:40
Speaker 2: find out that she was just sorry.
50:41
Speaker 4: That's just terrible, because like your mom is trying to
50:45
Speaker 4: have an.
50:45
Speaker 1: Affair with someone and is throwing money out the window.
50:51
Speaker 2: Terrible, terrible. I checked her location on July fourth and
50:54
Speaker 2: found out she was at a hotel. She was with
50:57
Speaker 2: the same guy that I had found her to be
50:58
Speaker 2: cheating with many years back, fourteen years ago. I confronted
51:02
Speaker 2: her and she said that they were just friends. I
51:05
Speaker 2: was furious. It's just friends hanging out a hotel, right,
51:08
Speaker 2: I was furious. My dad said he was beyond feeling
51:11
Speaker 2: hurt at this point. My sister also told me a
51:14
Speaker 2: secret that my dad was keeping about how he has
51:16
Speaker 2: been emotionally involved with a woman for the past few months.
51:20
Speaker 2: I never thought my dad would do something like this
51:22
Speaker 2: and also cheat. My dad said at this point he
51:25
Speaker 2: has no love for my mom and they are roommates.
51:28
Speaker 2: I'm still mad at my mom and have not spoken
51:30
Speaker 2: to her since July fourth, What should my relationship with
51:34
Speaker 2: her be going forward? And how can I move on?
51:36
Speaker 2: Thanks Anonymous. So everybody keep in mind we have no
51:40
Speaker 2: idea how this person is right. As a general rule,
51:44
Speaker 2: we assume and strongly courage that nobody under eighteen ever
51:48
Speaker 2: listened to the show, but we can't stop them, and
51:52
Speaker 2: it's a.
51:52
Speaker 4: Fair been going on that might tell us a little bit.
51:55
Speaker 2: The writer said they caught mom fourteen years ago with
51:58
Speaker 2: a coworker, So I think there's enough room here for us.
52:01
Speaker 4: To fourteen years old.
52:03
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, right, yeah, So I mean if they called
52:06
Speaker 2: him at five, you're still nineteen.
52:11
Speaker 6: Here's your skill.
52:12
Speaker 2: Okay, I think we could probably safely young adults, probably
52:15
Speaker 2: in their twenties, that might be safe number. Maybe they
52:18
Speaker 2: were ten when they caught mom. Did they say all
52:20
Speaker 2: they were when they they did? I don't think so.
52:22
Speaker 2: So let's let's give it. Let's assume ten and then
52:24
Speaker 2: call it twenty four.
52:25
Speaker 1: Presently, I'm I'm pretty happy to stick with my original advice.
52:29
Speaker 1: Don't have not become sexually involved with your mom and
52:32
Speaker 1: or the person having your message.
52:34
Speaker 2: No fuck Jacob's advice. This is an opportunity to get
52:37
Speaker 2: money out of your mom. Okay, Okay, on the internet,
52:43
Speaker 2: you just need to make a fake account, is your mom.
52:47
Speaker 2: You could be getting a lot of fucking lunch money.
52:50
Speaker 2: You can do it for all good.
52:51
Speaker 1: Yeah, you could usually put that money into a saving account,
52:55
Speaker 1: fuddle it.
52:55
Speaker 2: Back into a different account. You know, it's got a
52:57
Speaker 2: good like interest rate.
52:59
Speaker 4: She's gonna get can't fish.
53:00
Speaker 2: Yeah, you almost have a responsibility, and she'll stop cheating
53:04
Speaker 2: on your dad with other people because she'll be into this.
53:07
Speaker 4: Whole affair with you.
53:09
Speaker 3: I know, I know a stockbroker who can guarantee you
53:12
Speaker 3: thirteen percent return.
53:13
Speaker 2: Come on, that's a great investment. And this is just yeah,
53:19
Speaker 2: we'll move that money around.
53:20
Speaker 4: Okay, So if you don't want to do.
53:22
Speaker 2: That, yeah, option B. Option A was clearly a good answer.
53:26
Speaker 2: Now we'll try other ideas your mom.
53:29
Speaker 4: Okay. Part of me is thinking your mom's of a
53:32
Speaker 4: Jay got wrecked. That's why they listen.
53:39
Speaker 2: That's a T shirt. Honestly, that's a really good T
53:41
Speaker 2: shirt idea. I mean, the character makes itself like it's
53:45
Speaker 2: just blindfolded.
53:46
Speaker 3: I'm still got to make that one the Peter One.
53:48
Speaker 2: Oh Meat Factory.
53:51
Speaker 4: Yes, that.
53:55
Speaker 3: Part of me is kind of thinking like if I
53:58
Speaker 3: was in this situation, I would just try to withdraw
54:01
Speaker 3: as much as I can from both because obviously Dad's
54:06
Speaker 3: moved on, and uh, you can't. It's hard to be
54:11
Speaker 3: more hurt than the actual victim. Yes, well you know,
54:15
Speaker 3: and and and here's the other thing too.
54:18
Speaker 2: Victim too.
54:19
Speaker 4: And that's exactly what I was gonna say.
54:20
Speaker 3: I realize that you are a victim of this in
54:23
Speaker 3: your own way, yes, right, and it's a different way
54:28
Speaker 3: than than you know if if it was happening to
54:31
Speaker 3: you directly. But man, I as an adult, they're adults.
54:37
Speaker 3: I would really just kind of try to withdraw as
54:39
Speaker 3: much as I can from this.
54:40
Speaker 4: And I mean, the sad truth is you can't fix
54:42
Speaker 4: their relationship.
54:43
Speaker 1: You can go back and uncheat, you know, you can't
54:47
Speaker 1: make your mom go back and uncheat or something. Yeah,
54:50
Speaker 1: like if your dad is not interested in holding that
54:53
Speaker 1: relationship together, like, I don't know.
54:57
Speaker 3: What you can do with I think the very first
54:59
Speaker 3: thing you need to do is just understand that there's
55:01
Speaker 3: nothing that you can do in this situation. This is
55:06
Speaker 3: a very clear example of not my monkey, not my circus,
55:10
Speaker 3: you know. And I still think that you you're still
55:12
Speaker 3: gonna have to deal with your own emotions. You're still
55:15
Speaker 3: gonna have to deal with your own relationship, but I
55:18
Speaker 3: think that now becomes the main focus and anything trying
55:22
Speaker 3: to help out dad or help out mom or please kind.
55:26
Speaker 2: Of becoming the detective who's in charge of tracking this
55:30
Speaker 2: and catching this and revealing this. Boy, is that night you're.
55:33
Speaker 1: Feel free to keep on keeping your mom from getting
55:36
Speaker 1: catfished and swinding a lot of money.
55:39
Speaker 2: Yea by impersonating sexy Brazilian man who needs money.
55:43
Speaker 3: If you steal all her money, no one else can.
55:47
Speaker 2: Guy, he was a solid option. Yeah, I'm still happy
55:51
Speaker 2: with that.
55:51
Speaker 1: Yeah, don't have sex with your mom and steal her money,
55:54
Speaker 1: is okay?
55:55
Speaker 3: If we just continue to workshop this for a little
55:57
Speaker 3: bit and then if we if we need to, we
55:58
Speaker 3: can always come back to it.
55:59
Speaker 2: I'm going to come back to it, all right, But like, yeah,
56:01
Speaker 2: I mean, we'll fill in some gaps.
56:02
Speaker 1: But Nick, what Nick was saying is that's kind of
56:04
Speaker 1: where I was about to go with it.
56:06
Speaker 4: Was the relationship up.
56:08
Speaker 1: Like I would suggest, figuring out what you want that
56:11
Speaker 1: relationship to look like now and then figure out how
56:14
Speaker 1: you can get there. Yeah, and you're not going to
56:16
Speaker 1: get there by punishing your mom for past past transgressions.
56:21
Speaker 4: Right, that's true.
56:22
Speaker 3: There's nothing you as the child, are going to do that.
56:25
Speaker 3: Then she's just gonna be like, oh my god, I
56:27
Speaker 3: now see the error of my ways.
56:29
Speaker 4: Ye right yeah, yeah.
56:31
Speaker 7: That leans in towards the route that I was thinking,
56:35
Speaker 7: where at some point you just have to acknowledge that
56:40
Speaker 7: your parents are who they are. And your mom obviously
56:43
Speaker 7: has an extensive history of making certain choices that are
56:48
Speaker 7: not great for her family. It seems like they're what
56:51
Speaker 7: she wants and that might just be who your mom is.
56:56
Speaker 7: So kind of what I guess Nick had said earlier,
56:59
Speaker 7: like getting space from that relationship might be really helpful,
57:03
Speaker 7: just to give yourself time to heal and figure out
57:06
Speaker 7: what you want. Like Jacob was saying, like what relationship
57:08
Speaker 7: do you want with your mom? And that space could
57:11
Speaker 7: look like a long time, right, It doesn't have to
57:14
Speaker 7: be just like, you know, a week or a month
57:16
Speaker 7: or something like that, but give yourself as much time.
57:18
Speaker 6: As you need to figure out.
57:20
Speaker 7: If this is who my mom is, She's probably not
57:24
Speaker 7: going to change most parents don't as they get older.
57:28
Speaker 7: She is who she is. Do you want to accept
57:30
Speaker 7: that or not? What kind of relationship would you have
57:33
Speaker 7: with her if you did accept that about her, and
57:37
Speaker 7: are you okay with that? And you can try and
57:39
Speaker 7: see how it goes once you decide if it all
57:42
Speaker 7: blows up again and be like, all right, I'm gonna
57:44
Speaker 7: pull back out again, I'm gonna go over here.
57:46
Speaker 6: But yeah, I don't know.
57:47
Speaker 2: Well, I think we're all in agreement that one of
57:49
Speaker 2: the most important things you need to do right is
57:52
Speaker 2: take that big step back and just reflect on all
57:54
Speaker 2: this from the perspective of who am I in these
57:58
Speaker 2: people's lives. This is my father, this is my mother.
58:02
Speaker 2: I am their child. They did not marry me, they
58:05
Speaker 2: did not swear an oath of fidelity to me. And I,
58:09
Speaker 2: though i am a victim in some ways because I'm
58:10
Speaker 2: part of a human ecosystem here, have not directly been betrayed.
58:15
Speaker 2: Mom has betrayed Dad, and Dad and mom apparently have
58:19
Speaker 2: an arrangement they and maybe that has been their closed
58:22
Speaker 2: door conversations. Maybe that has kind of been the rolled eyes,
58:25
Speaker 2: you know, detachment for all these years is sort of like, look,
58:29
Speaker 2: we're here for the kids. Don't throw away any more
58:32
Speaker 2: stupid money, don't open up credit cards, and like live
58:35
Speaker 2: your life. We're not technically an open marriage because I'm
58:38
Speaker 2: not going to cross that boundary, but like we're detached.
58:42
Speaker 3: Although let me push back on that for just a second,
58:46
Speaker 3: because one of the things that you said is that
58:50
Speaker 3: I personally was not betrayed in this situation. Right Hypothetically,
58:56
Speaker 3: if let's say the writer was a patient of yours
59:00
Speaker 3: and you're doing therapy, what would you want.
59:03
Speaker 4: To know.
59:05
Speaker 3: From the writer's perspective, Because I'm sitting here thinking like,
59:10
Speaker 3: if I'm working with this person, one of my questions
59:12
Speaker 3: is I'm going to be like, I want to know, Okay,
59:17
Speaker 3: you feel hurt in this situation. I want to know
59:21
Speaker 3: what does this mean to you?
59:23
Speaker 4: What does this situation mean?
59:25
Speaker 3: Because although they may not have been like I don't
59:28
Speaker 3: feel like I was hurt because I was betrayed. I
59:33
Speaker 3: felt something and it meant something. But I don't know
59:38
Speaker 3: if the writer even knows what that is yet, you know,
59:41
Speaker 3: because I'm thinking, like, from my perspective as a child,
59:45
Speaker 3: you know, if I'm in this situation, one of the
59:48
Speaker 3: things that may be affecting me is I built up
59:53
Speaker 3: my parents to be these infallible human beings, and now
59:56
Speaker 3: I see that they're doing these hurtful things.
59:59
Speaker 4: To each other.
1:00:00
Speaker 6: We relate to our parents so much.
1:00:01
Speaker 3: Yeah, and then now I feel like now I'm grieving
1:00:05
Speaker 3: an idea of what my parents were. Yes, and so
1:00:11
Speaker 3: I'm a victim in that sense.
1:00:13
Speaker 2: So not directly, I love everything you said. You actually
1:00:16
Speaker 2: ended up going right where I wanted to go, which
1:00:18
Speaker 2: was the argument that sure, I do know really.
1:00:20
Speaker 4: Because because to know the answer once again.
1:00:23
Speaker 2: The language that you're using a CBT language, right, and
1:00:26
Speaker 2: so that's the reframe. And so I wanted to queue
1:00:28
Speaker 2: it up from the angle of let's start by how
1:00:31
Speaker 2: we might be interpreting this. You have done this to
1:00:33
Speaker 2: all of us, You've done this to me, and then
1:00:36
Speaker 2: let's go deeper into that, right, and let's get to
1:00:38
Speaker 2: a place where we understand what are you feeling about this,
1:00:41
Speaker 2: because really what you're doing is grieving. Really, what's happening
1:00:44
Speaker 2: is there's been a betrayal in the sense of a shock,
1:00:46
Speaker 2: in the sense of sadness for your father. There is
1:00:49
Speaker 2: all these layers of pain. But let's rightly place where
1:00:52
Speaker 2: those exactly are. Let's really connect odds because that clarifies
1:00:58
Speaker 2: some of this too. When you have this of Okay,
1:01:01
Speaker 2: I'm going to relanguage what has really happened. It's not
1:01:04
Speaker 2: my mom has cheated on us or my dad or this.
1:01:08
Speaker 2: It's my family is broken and breaking, and I am
1:01:12
Speaker 2: horrified to discover my mom is a person capable of
1:01:16
Speaker 2: doing things that we all agreed we would not do.
1:01:19
Speaker 2: That's a different thing. She's changing in my mind. Yeah,
1:01:22
Speaker 2: And I'm scared for my father, and I'm scared for
1:01:24
Speaker 2: all of us and our ecosystem. What happens at Christmas? Now,
1:01:26
Speaker 2: what happens at this is this going to keep happening?
1:01:29
Speaker 2: Is that do we have to like get to know
1:01:30
Speaker 2: this new dude. There's all this grievance hurricane that's happening,
1:01:34
Speaker 2: and that's what you're swept up.
1:01:36
Speaker 3: I think that the fear point I want to touch
1:01:39
Speaker 3: on that because I think that's a good point, is
1:01:41
Speaker 3: that even because we kind of we have this assumption
1:01:45
Speaker 3: that like, okay, we have this fear as children, but
1:01:48
Speaker 3: now that we're adults, we're kind of living our own
1:01:50
Speaker 3: lives and therefore we should have less to worry about.
1:01:53
Speaker 3: But there is I think still kind of this instinctual
1:01:55
Speaker 3: reaction that we have where it's like, well, this is
1:01:59
Speaker 3: my secure blanket. Yes, yes, And if mom and dad
1:02:02
Speaker 3: are not getting along and they're getting divorced, right then,
1:02:06
Speaker 3: now that threatens my environment. Even though I'm an adult,
1:02:10
Speaker 3: it's still like it activates this animalistic part of the
1:02:13
Speaker 3: brain where it's like your.
1:02:14
Speaker 4: Environment's no longer safe.
1:02:15
Speaker 3: Yes, that's so, you're still processing that.
1:02:18
Speaker 2: That's it. It's the psychological home that you live in.
1:02:21
Speaker 2: And you know, writer for a lot of people, and
1:02:23
Speaker 2: this comes up in therapy a lot. There's a lot
1:02:26
Speaker 2: of people in their twenties and thirties and throughout life
1:02:29
Speaker 2: that suddenly discover something about their parents that was always
1:02:34
Speaker 2: denied them as children. Now, in your case, you seem
1:02:36
Speaker 2: to have caught on kind of early about some things
1:02:38
Speaker 2: and some of this was revealed. But for a lot
1:02:40
Speaker 2: of people, their image of their parents is shattered. They
1:02:43
Speaker 2: discover that parent had a secret child, you know, they
1:02:45
Speaker 2: discover that there had been cheating, They discovered that, you know,
1:02:49
Speaker 2: somebody had stolen something or been arrested at some point,
1:02:51
Speaker 2: like the the idyllic you know, version of the family
1:02:55
Speaker 2: is shattered or broken. You discover bad things and it
1:02:58
Speaker 2: is haunting and it is I think grief is that again,
1:03:01
Speaker 2: we've talked about this the past. It's a reaction to
1:03:04
Speaker 2: change fundamentally, and your vision and view of the family
1:03:07
Speaker 2: and the cohesion of the ecosystem is all changing. Now
1:03:10
Speaker 2: Dad is emotionally involved with somebody else. What the fuck
1:03:12
Speaker 2: is going on around here? So what Dad? You don't
1:03:14
Speaker 2: give a shit that Mom's like meeting with this dude.
1:03:16
Speaker 2: You have somebody else that you're talking to, the.
1:03:17
Speaker 4: One who cares about this.
1:03:19
Speaker 2: Yes, that was the point I wanted to into because,
1:03:23
Speaker 2: like you might find yourself going Dad says he's not
1:03:26
Speaker 2: even surprised, and he's emotionally detached and they're just roommates.
1:03:28
Speaker 2: And when I hear you bringing this up from that context,
1:03:31
Speaker 2: when both of your parents seem to not give a shit,
1:03:33
Speaker 2: that's me wanting to comfort you and say, hey, let's
1:03:36
Speaker 2: let's talk about this right, like, let's right size this,
1:03:39
Speaker 2: not to dismiss it, not to minimize it, but let's
1:03:42
Speaker 2: find you in this story where you're attached to this ecosystem,
1:03:46
Speaker 2: where you're affected by these choices, in this pain, and
1:03:49
Speaker 2: that allows us to also understand the answer to your question,
1:03:53
Speaker 2: how should I respond to my mother given the situation?
1:03:56
Speaker 2: And that was the thing I wanted to bring you
1:03:58
Speaker 2: all the way around to was this can still be
1:04:01
Speaker 2: your mother who is changing and who is going in
1:04:04
Speaker 2: a new direction, and your father who is changing, and
1:04:07
Speaker 2: your father may end up having a relationship with this
1:04:09
Speaker 2: other woman. Yeah, and that might cause you to write
1:04:11
Speaker 2: back into this podcast, but well, chuh, my bitch, mom
1:04:14
Speaker 2: my dad's like dating some lady or like going out
1:04:16
Speaker 2: to dinner with them, and I don't know if they're
1:04:17
Speaker 2: having sex. Should ask them if they're having sex, and
1:04:19
Speaker 2: it's like, okay, great, you're overstepping. I want to bring
1:04:22
Speaker 2: you back into your part of this ecosystem that no
1:04:24
Speaker 2: matter what happens, that you are their child. And this
1:04:29
Speaker 2: happens for a lot of young people and adults that
1:04:31
Speaker 2: when their parents change or change partners, they need to
1:04:34
Speaker 2: almost sit you down and remind you, mommy and daddy
1:04:36
Speaker 2: still love you. You're still ours, and what we're doing to
1:04:40
Speaker 2: each other and the feelings we're having for other people
1:04:42
Speaker 2: is not in any way inside of the same circle
1:04:45
Speaker 2: of how we feel about you, our children, and our
1:04:47
Speaker 2: loyalty to you. So I think these kinds of things
1:04:50
Speaker 2: do need to be fleshed out to get to your
1:04:52
Speaker 2: answer of how should I interact with my mother, because
1:04:55
Speaker 2: I don't want you to please her. I don't want
1:04:57
Speaker 2: you to be the one holding her accountable. I don't
1:04:59
Speaker 2: want you to be the one bringing her shame or consequences.
1:05:02
Speaker 2: I don't want you to be the one calling family
1:05:04
Speaker 2: meetings and trying to get everybody on the same page.
1:05:06
Speaker 2: And what the fuck's going on around here? Why you
1:05:09
Speaker 2: guys love each other anymore? All of this is you
1:05:11
Speaker 2: taking on so much. I just want you to be
1:05:14
Speaker 2: the daughter who is sad, and I want to start
1:05:16
Speaker 2: there therapeutically and see where that takes us. So there's
1:05:19
Speaker 2: a lot of layers of this, writer, but I think
1:05:21
Speaker 2: that we're all in agreement. Plan A is still the
1:05:24
Speaker 2: best one.
1:05:25
Speaker 6: Yeah, we are, definitely.
1:05:26
Speaker 3: We still keep coming back to that fish didn't be there.
1:05:29
Speaker 2: I mean, I think it's bill.
1:05:32
Speaker 6: Instinct.
1:05:33
Speaker 2: Brazilian entrepreneur. All of his money is sunk in his
1:05:36
Speaker 2: newest investment and he really just needs a little bit
1:05:39
Speaker 2: to get over It would really make it different. Oh yeah, queen, queen, if.
1:05:46
Speaker 7: You had a Brazilian I watch you watch it okaion.
1:05:52
Speaker 2: Oh I love it. Yeah. So that's the advice writer,
1:05:55
Speaker 2: and with that you will make a buttload of money.
1:05:57
Speaker 2: Get those into strong investments, you know, really don't settle
1:06:00
Speaker 2: for anything.
1:06:01
Speaker 6: Less well lest requests in the disc advice.
1:06:05
Speaker 4: Patreon dot com slash therapy.
1:06:07
Speaker 6: That's where you go, you financial advice.
1:06:09
Speaker 2: We'ren take quick break and when we come back, we're
1:06:11
Speaker 2: gon't talking about coping with a friend's death. You're listening
1:06:14
Speaker 2: to pod therapy.
1:06:16
Speaker 3: Today's episode is brought to you by Smitty's Scoot Mason Miller,
1:06:19
Speaker 3: Tess Miller, Biler t Paris, Team Monaco, Oscar Swan, ros
1:06:23
Speaker 3: Anna Marie and Emma Caine. And if you would like
1:06:27
Speaker 3: to sponsor the show, head on over to patreon dot
1:06:29
Speaker 3: com slash therapy and sign up to become a therapy producer.
1:06:33
Speaker 3: All right, continuing on next trivia questions.
1:06:37
Speaker 2: As soon as I the right two Jacob and I
1:06:41
Speaker 2: have two, and then with one you both have three.
1:06:44
Speaker 4: I've got three issues, got one?
1:06:45
Speaker 2: Okay, got it? We're the meat and the uh Whitney
1:06:49
Speaker 2: and Nick of the bread, just like we talked about.
1:06:52
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I see it, gat, Uh what country are
1:06:56
Speaker 3: the Galapagos Islands located in?
1:07:00
Speaker 2: Fuck you?
1:07:01
Speaker 4: Myra?
1:07:02
Speaker 2: You know what you were doing. I'm waiting for options
1:07:06
Speaker 2: and got a goddamn clue.
1:07:11
Speaker 4: I'll take options. MM, you're going for it. I'm going
1:07:16
Speaker 4: to go for it.
1:07:17
Speaker 2: You're going because.
1:07:18
Speaker 7: You're going to say it's I have I have a
1:07:22
Speaker 7: country in mind.
1:07:23
Speaker 4: What are you going to have an idea? I want
1:07:27
Speaker 4: to say Chile?
1:07:30
Speaker 6: I was going to say Brazil.
1:07:33
Speaker 2: Okay, So you guys are going to sell America and
1:07:35
Speaker 2: the ship. I don't know.
1:07:37
Speaker 7: I actually don't know, but in my mind it's always
1:07:39
Speaker 7: been there, so maybe I should just go with options.
1:07:41
Speaker 4: With options.
1:07:44
Speaker 1: A friend of mine works for a company that takes
1:07:47
Speaker 1: tours to the Galos Islands, Okay.
1:07:51
Speaker 4: And I know where they take the boat out from.
1:07:55
Speaker 2: Oh that's a big piece of info.
1:07:57
Speaker 4: But I don't know if that's the country whole I'm saying.
1:08:00
Speaker 1: I don't know if that's the country that that owns
1:08:02
Speaker 1: the Galapagos Islands or part, or if that's like the
1:08:06
Speaker 1: closest port that they have access to.
1:08:08
Speaker 6: It's a way for options, all right?
1:08:10
Speaker 2: You hold him back? Are you locked in on Chile?
1:08:14
Speaker 4: I worked at the options, so I have to be
1:08:16
Speaker 4: locked in, Okay.
1:08:17
Speaker 2: I love your integrity.
1:08:18
Speaker 3: I am a boy scout, that's true, right, I was
1:08:22
Speaker 3: honest Belize Brazil, Ecuador, Colombia.
1:08:28
Speaker 2: Alright, he takes the l Yes, all right, So Brazil
1:08:32
Speaker 2: is up there with you want that.
1:08:34
Speaker 6: You said, believe is Ecuador? And what was the other one?
1:08:38
Speaker 4: Colombia?
1:08:39
Speaker 6: Columbia.
1:08:42
Speaker 7: Now I want to say Ecuador that even though I
1:08:45
Speaker 7: was saying, man.
1:08:48
Speaker 4: This is America.
1:08:50
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't think.
1:08:50
Speaker 7: It's Jacobs, like I'm going last is the country that
1:08:53
Speaker 7: you thought on that list?
1:08:55
Speaker 2: Indeed, then he's you know, I think I think I'm
1:08:58
Speaker 2: gonna get it right. All right, I got one. I'm
1:09:02
Speaker 2: going to go with Belize. And my logic is Jacob's
1:09:05
Speaker 2: going to Belize, And because I remember that being a fact,
1:09:09
Speaker 2: I'm going to use that to parlay in solid logic.
1:09:11
Speaker 6: Change lie to Ecuador.
1:09:13
Speaker 4: That's the one.
1:09:14
Speaker 1: I know it's Notador, Okay, I also know it's not believed.
1:09:22
Speaker 2: It's Ecuador.
1:09:27
Speaker 4: Al right.
1:09:27
Speaker 2: Which three to three to two to two?
1:09:30
Speaker 4: No, three, that's three to three to two to two.
1:09:34
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I stand by my pronunciation.
1:09:41
Speaker 3: Which sea creature has three hearts?
1:09:46
Speaker 2: At least? Octopus? Final answer?
1:09:50
Speaker 3: I mean, does it have at least three hearts? What
1:09:54
Speaker 3: is that mythical creature that's got the three heads?
1:09:56
Speaker 2: Oh? The hydra? Yeah, yeah, I mean that's gotta have
1:10:00
Speaker 2: three hearts, right, I mean that.
1:10:01
Speaker 4: Just be cruel.
1:10:03
Speaker 3: I'm definitely waiting for I think the giraffe has a couple.
1:10:07
Speaker 2: So I think the giraffe like to pump the blood
1:10:09
Speaker 2: the way up. They have one in their throat.
1:10:11
Speaker 4: Yeah.
1:10:12
Speaker 3: Yeah, did you guys hear about that?
1:10:14
Speaker 4: I did?
1:10:14
Speaker 2: Yeh draft the local zoo draft died he fell, Yeah,
1:10:19
Speaker 2: I don't know. Yeah, apparently he was doing wheelies on
1:10:22
Speaker 2: the freeway.
1:10:23
Speaker 4: Ah said, I love that giraffe.
1:10:28
Speaker 2: He did paintings the lion. Yeah, the lion habitat.
1:10:33
Speaker 4: I know.
1:10:34
Speaker 2: Sorry, I had to find out like this, I'm not
1:10:37
Speaker 2: I'm going well.
1:10:39
Speaker 3: And then they were trying to get him back up
1:10:41
Speaker 3: and he just wasn't going to get up, and yeah,
1:10:43
Speaker 3: you anyway, options.
1:10:50
Speaker 6: But I'm going to listen to.
1:10:52
Speaker 4: Yeah.
1:10:53
Speaker 3: Options are shark, jellyfish, stingray, octopus. Yeahs, I'll go octopus bitches. Yeah, Jim,
1:11:04
Speaker 3: you're sticking with shark, all right? Octopus? Yeah, four three
1:11:11
Speaker 3: three aquarium.
1:11:12
Speaker 2: I think they have like eight brains. I think there's
1:11:15
Speaker 2: a brain per arm well in a sense, because the
1:11:18
Speaker 2: way their brain works is it's distributed, so they don't
1:11:21
Speaker 2: have a centralized brain like we do. Their whole body
1:11:24
Speaker 2: is like a nervous system that's all thinking on its own.
1:11:27
Speaker 1: So you know, the way to say that is they
1:11:29
Speaker 1: say something like brain.
1:11:30
Speaker 2: Perm They don't have like eight little brains. But yeah,
1:11:32
Speaker 2: each arm is its own autonomous thinking things system. Yeah,
1:11:36
Speaker 2: it's really fascinating. It's one of the most alien ship ever.
1:11:39
Speaker 4: It's really the most argumentative ways to tell me I
1:11:41
Speaker 4: was right about something else. Just what is the name
1:11:47
Speaker 4: of the talkative parrot in Aladdin?
1:11:50
Speaker 2: Buzz Iago finally answer, yeah, Yago.
1:11:54
Speaker 4: I will go along with that question.
1:12:02
Speaker 2: Don't dare throw me Disney ship.
1:12:04
Speaker 4: I was like ship, this is the Broadway pair a
1:12:06
Speaker 4: different name than the Okay, so five five?
1:12:13
Speaker 6: No, I did that before options, so I have Wait, so.
1:12:17
Speaker 2: I caught up to you guys.
1:12:19
Speaker 6: I had three.
1:12:19
Speaker 2: I shot from the hip on Octopus, so you all
1:12:22
Speaker 2: got one, but I got two, so I would have
1:12:24
Speaker 2: caught you. Then I'm tied with you and Jacob. And
1:12:27
Speaker 2: then Whitney's won one down. Yeah, Whitney's minus one. Yes,
1:12:31
Speaker 2: if we're all zero, let's just say that, yeah, we're
1:12:33
Speaker 2: all par and she's one.
1:12:34
Speaker 6: Because I'm a woman.
1:12:37
Speaker 2: You get seven, you don't get four points. You know
1:12:44
Speaker 2: how this works.
1:12:44
Speaker 4: You get seventy.
1:12:47
Speaker 3: Point any quality?
1:12:53
Speaker 4: All right? Is that it? Yeah? All right?
1:12:56
Speaker 2: So almost tie game.
1:13:00
Speaker 4: All right?
1:13:00
Speaker 2: Buckle up. Here we go coping with a friend's death.
1:13:03
Speaker 2: Before we read this. This has a trigger warning for suicide,
1:13:06
Speaker 2: so if that's not for you, this would be the
1:13:09
Speaker 2: time to turn off the show and we'll see you
1:13:10
Speaker 2: next week.
1:13:11
Speaker 1: Also trigger warning for anyone who doesn't like Francis Ford Coppola,
1:13:14
Speaker 1: because I'm probably gonna make a Francis bord Copla joke.
1:13:16
Speaker 2: About the shows up part.
1:13:17
Speaker 4: It shows up.
1:13:18
Speaker 2: Yeah, sometimes, got to get those in there. Hi all,
1:13:21
Speaker 2: I wrote into your Reddit Ama and then into an
1:13:24
Speaker 2: episode about how to help my friend Lucas who who
1:13:28
Speaker 2: was having psychosomatic symptoms and didn't want to take his medication.
1:13:31
Speaker 2: I have the worst update, which is that my friend
1:13:34
Speaker 2: Lucas did take his own life. I'm absolutely devastated. Lucas
1:13:37
Speaker 2: and I had fallen out of contact over the last
1:13:40
Speaker 2: year or so, something I'm sure will loom large over
1:13:43
Speaker 2: the next few months. But and everyone says this, I
1:13:46
Speaker 2: thought he was getting better. I'm sad for all the
1:13:49
Speaker 2: obvious reasons, and this particular morning, I feel upset that
1:13:52
Speaker 2: his illness killed him in a way three years ago.
1:13:57
Speaker 2: I'm still in therapy of my own, so I have
1:13:59
Speaker 2: a rec ors to help me manage, but need a lot.
1:14:02
Speaker 2: But not a lot of people knew him even before
1:14:05
Speaker 2: he got sick. He was kind of an introvert in oddball.
1:14:09
Speaker 2: I was one of the only few close friends he had.
1:14:11
Speaker 2: I think I want anyone who knew him, even peripherally
1:14:15
Speaker 2: to know he was a very special person. I called
1:14:19
Speaker 2: him Gatito because of his cat like nature and love
1:14:22
Speaker 2: of cats. He loved to sing and crete music. He
1:14:25
Speaker 2: successfully completed the gallon challenge once and drink a caulend
1:14:29
Speaker 2: of milk and under an hour without throwing up.
1:14:30
Speaker 6: During the.
1:14:34
Speaker 2: Oh, I failed everybody. I've winning is the worst thing
1:14:38
Speaker 2: that can happen, are you?
1:14:39
Speaker 4: That's not what killed him.
1:14:44
Speaker 8: I think that one time we found a stuff penguin
1:14:48
Speaker 8: named Wattles on our college campus, and he insisted that
1:14:51
Speaker 8: we walked close enough together that Wattles was held up
1:14:54
Speaker 8: by our upper arms.
1:14:55
Speaker 2: Picture two people almost. I will miss him forever. So
1:15:02
Speaker 2: that's been my life since the beginning of the year,
1:15:04
Speaker 2: and it's all the cliche things everyone always says about grief.
1:15:07
Speaker 2: A particularly hard day was when I realized that I have,
1:15:11
Speaker 2: in all likelihood at least a few thousand more days
1:15:15
Speaker 2: to live if I'm lucky, and every single one of
1:15:18
Speaker 2: us is every single one of those days I am
1:15:22
Speaker 2: going to wake up in the morning, and for not
1:15:24
Speaker 2: one single one of those days will he be around
1:15:28
Speaker 2: for me to talk to none. Zero. And here's another one.
1:15:32
Speaker 2: What I wouldn't give for just one more day with him,
1:15:35
Speaker 2: to talk to him one more time. And I'm a
1:15:38
Speaker 2: person of the Christian faith, a whole ordained minister actually
1:15:42
Speaker 2: with the master's degree at all.
1:15:44
Speaker 4: And sorry about the whole other part of the show.
1:15:47
Speaker 2: Don't listen to the first half of the show. Just
1:15:48
Speaker 2: let that go. And still none of that helps. I
1:15:52
Speaker 2: firmly believe I'll see him again someday, But also he's
1:15:56
Speaker 2: dead now. I miss him now. Plus there is a
1:16:00
Speaker 2: very real difference between someone being spiritually there and there
1:16:04
Speaker 2: in a physical presence. You know this, We all know this.
1:16:08
Speaker 2: I'm getting through it, and my therapist is awesome, But
1:16:11
Speaker 2: do you have any tips that can help me deal
1:16:14
Speaker 2: with my friend's suicide? Thanks? Arie, Sarah might be eerie, Eerie,
1:16:20
Speaker 2: that's it, eerie, Sarah.
1:16:22
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's how the city's spelled from a.
1:16:24
Speaker 2: P ee p A. Yeah, this is a tough one.
1:16:28
Speaker 2: And you know what, if you go in our back
1:16:29
Speaker 2: catalog writer, because I know we're tempted to repeat some
1:16:33
Speaker 2: things on this one, but if you go in our catalog,
1:16:37
Speaker 2: everybody has stories. We know, we have stories of patience,
1:16:40
Speaker 2: we have stories of friends and uh it is. I
1:16:43
Speaker 2: think we've had opportunities in the past to really share those,
1:16:47
Speaker 2: and I think sometimes stuff like that is really healthy
1:16:49
Speaker 2: to hear, like how other people were stricken by it,
1:16:52
Speaker 2: how they coped with it, how they found out and
1:16:55
Speaker 2: then and then recovering from it. So before we launched answers,
1:16:58
Speaker 2: I just want to make it clear that this has
1:17:00
Speaker 2: come up a lot. If you go to podtherapy dot
1:17:02
Speaker 2: net and you go up into the search bar, you
1:17:04
Speaker 2: can just search the word suicide and a ton of
1:17:08
Speaker 2: our content speaks to this.
1:17:10
Speaker 1: You can also do it for most podcasts. Oh yeah, yeah,
1:17:14
Speaker 1: I just did it on ours. It looks like episode
1:17:16
Speaker 1: three forty three, three forty two, three forty one, three
1:17:19
Speaker 1: forty three, thirty nine, Like apparently we've we've mentioned it
1:17:23
Speaker 1: a few times.
1:17:23
Speaker 2: No, no, no, what's coming up is there is a disclaimer
1:17:26
Speaker 2: at the bottom of every episode with wine resources. And
1:17:30
Speaker 2: that's why it's seeing that I was.
1:17:32
Speaker 8: Like, my god, an episode I don't remember that.
1:17:36
Speaker 4: It doesn't help that I don't know what episode number
1:17:38
Speaker 4: on right now.
1:17:42
Speaker 3: It's weird for me to think that we got to
1:17:44
Speaker 3: lighten the mood.
1:17:45
Speaker 2: Yeah, Jesus every day. Yeah, that's that makes a lot
1:17:49
Speaker 2: more sense.
1:17:50
Speaker 4: Yeah, wait a minute.
1:17:51
Speaker 2: If you go into the episode description, the bottom of
1:17:53
Speaker 2: it always says here are resources if you're heard it nice.
1:17:57
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's a tough thing. I mean.
1:18:01
Speaker 3: The first thing is is I I admire you for
1:18:04
Speaker 3: you know, you know, telling stories, you know and just
1:18:07
Speaker 3: trying to keep you you know, you've got kind of
1:18:10
Speaker 3: a very positive attitude. You're remembering these fun, funny stories,
1:18:14
Speaker 3: good times, and and willing to share those.
1:18:17
Speaker 4: I think that's very important.
1:18:20
Speaker 6: I like that too. I was going to just say
1:18:21
Speaker 6: thanks for even just writing them to share that.
1:18:24
Speaker 7: I think that's really special, and that is definitely something
1:18:31
Speaker 7: if you have other friends. They don't even have to
1:18:35
Speaker 7: be mutual friends. You said, Lucas kind of kept themselves
1:18:38
Speaker 7: a lot and not a lot of people knew them.
1:18:40
Speaker 7: But just sharing with your own friends, like, hey, I'm
1:18:44
Speaker 7: having kind of a tough day and you know, I'm
1:18:48
Speaker 7: really missing my friend and sharing some of those fun
1:18:50
Speaker 7: memories too. I think that helps keep someone feeling like
1:18:55
Speaker 7: they're there with you.
1:18:56
Speaker 2: Yeah. No, that's really good advice, you know. Writer. One
1:19:00
Speaker 2: of the things about this that I think is really
1:19:02
Speaker 2: difficult is whenever somebody suddenly exits, they're one of the
1:19:07
Speaker 2: first things is, oh, my gosh, how long has it
1:19:09
Speaker 2: been since I talked to them? When did I last
1:19:11
Speaker 2: speak to them? What did I know? And one of
1:19:13
Speaker 2: the things you talk about in your letter is how
1:19:14
Speaker 2: most people thought Lucas was you know, quote unquote getting better.
1:19:18
Speaker 2: And this is a really hard thing because with somebody
1:19:21
Speaker 2: that's dealing with chronic problems, chronic pain, chronic depression, weaknesses,
1:19:26
Speaker 2: and mental health, it is not a straight line and
1:19:30
Speaker 2: it zigs and its zags, and so this is one
1:19:32
Speaker 2: of the reasons why a lot of therapists will keep
1:19:35
Speaker 2: a patient like Lucas under care for a while, even
1:19:38
Speaker 2: when they are appearing to be better. And if they
1:19:40
Speaker 2: were to say so, do you think we should discontinue?
1:19:42
Speaker 2: A lot of times be like no, no, I just
1:19:44
Speaker 2: want to keep checking in with you. You know, maybe not
1:19:46
Speaker 2: every week, but we're not going to close the file.
1:19:49
Speaker 2: You know, I want to make sure that if things zag,
1:19:52
Speaker 2: you still have me in your life. We're still making
1:19:54
Speaker 2: sure we have safety procedures and we're checking in. And
1:19:57
Speaker 2: you know, he was a person who was suffering from
1:19:59
Speaker 2: an awful lot of things, and so I just I
1:20:01
Speaker 2: want to normalize that a little bit. That's not to
1:20:05
Speaker 2: cause fear, because I know we have a lot of
1:20:06
Speaker 2: listeners who have shared in the past that they have
1:20:08
Speaker 2: a lot of anxiety about like, oh my gosh, can
1:20:10
Speaker 2: things get suddenly worse and can suddenly people do things
1:20:13
Speaker 2: that are spontaneous and in their lives. That's not what
1:20:16
Speaker 2: we're talking about here, doesn't, Lucas. If you go back
1:20:19
Speaker 2: and listen to the story originally from that writer really
1:20:23
Speaker 2: was dealing with a lot and had been for years.
1:20:26
Speaker 2: And so this was a story where somebody struggled with
1:20:29
Speaker 2: mental health for a very long time, had been going
1:20:32
Speaker 2: through a lot of agony, and unfortunately succumb to that
1:20:36
Speaker 2: mental illness at some point, despite that overall lift that
1:20:40
Speaker 2: we thought they were having. And so a lot of
1:20:43
Speaker 2: times writer, people will say, I missed it. I must
1:20:46
Speaker 2: have missed the signs they were fooling us into thinking
1:20:48
Speaker 2: they were getting better. And I should have been a
1:20:49
Speaker 2: good enough friend. If I had talked to them more
1:20:51
Speaker 2: often and didn't keep our conversation superficial, then I would know,
1:20:54
Speaker 2: and you wouldn't. A therapist wouldn't know, And we read
1:20:58
Speaker 2: people for a living.
1:21:00
Speaker 3: And winning the self blame is really tough and even worse,
1:21:05
Speaker 3: I think sometimes.
1:21:05
Speaker 4: If you're a therapist, Oh my god.
1:21:08
Speaker 3: You know because like a friend of mine who I
1:21:11
Speaker 3: played hockey with, who was a guest on this show, Yeah,
1:21:15
Speaker 3: did this?
1:21:16
Speaker 4: You know? And I don't. I don't know if I
1:21:19
Speaker 4: ever even told you.
1:21:19
Speaker 2: We never told the audience. Yeah, so now we probably should.
1:21:24
Speaker 4: Yeah.
1:21:25
Speaker 3: So yeah, he was a guest on the show Adam
1:21:27
Speaker 3: on just probably two years ago, I think.
1:21:30
Speaker 2: But came on to speak about schizophrenia.
1:21:31
Speaker 3: Yeah, and uh, and that was tough. And then you
1:21:35
Speaker 3: kind of have this feeling like you hear about that, like, well, shit, jeez,
1:21:38
Speaker 3: when was the last time I talked to him?
1:21:39
Speaker 4: Yeah?
1:21:40
Speaker 3: Could I have done something? Could I've spend more time?
1:21:42
Speaker 3: Could I have called him and just hung out or
1:21:45
Speaker 3: done something?
1:21:45
Speaker 1: But I bet being a pastor, there are similar out there,
1:21:49
Speaker 1: you know, being a pastor A large, a large part
1:21:51
Speaker 1: of that that job is listening to people and paying
1:21:53
Speaker 1: attention to people. Yeah, if that isn't something you were
1:21:56
Speaker 1: already dealing with, sorry for putting that in your mind.
1:21:59
Speaker 2: No, but it's very It is natural. Years ago. I
1:22:04
Speaker 2: think it was in twenty sixteen. It was right before
1:22:08
Speaker 2: covid at. This was before we did regular Patreon stuff,
1:22:14
Speaker 2: and so we would occasionally do something. And I had
1:22:18
Speaker 2: a series that I had done a little bit in
1:22:21
Speaker 2: eighteen and nineteen that I think was called Like Jim's Journal,
1:22:24
Speaker 2: and there were just things that would happen in life
1:22:26
Speaker 2: and I would just kind of be very raw and
1:22:28
Speaker 2: reflect on them. And I had a patient commit suicide
1:22:31
Speaker 2: that year, and I recorded a reaction that night, and
1:22:36
Speaker 2: it was very raw and very emotional, and I left it.
1:22:41
Speaker 2: Even though today, you know, I don't think I could
1:22:43
Speaker 2: ever go back and listen to that again. It's one
1:22:45
Speaker 2: of those things that I don't feel like a strong
1:22:47
Speaker 2: therapist in that day, and so that's tough to leave
1:22:51
Speaker 2: that out there as a record, But then I've decided
1:22:55
Speaker 2: I will. Because there are so many students and interns
1:22:59
Speaker 2: that often go in to our archives and find stuff
1:23:02
Speaker 2: and I want them to know this happens, you know.
1:23:05
Speaker 2: And it's like Nick was just saying, you don't have
1:23:08
Speaker 2: some kind of sixth sense to be able to detect it.
1:23:10
Speaker 2: I didn't see it coming, and and writer, you didn't
1:23:13
Speaker 2: see this coming. And I just I brought that up
1:23:15
Speaker 2: because I don't I want to normalize that often suicide
1:23:19
Speaker 2: is visible. We do see a steady decline over time.
1:23:23
Speaker 2: There are many warning signs where hospitalize this person five
1:23:26
Speaker 2: different times. They're they're destroying their life with drugs and alcohol.
1:23:29
Speaker 2: Sometimes that's the trajectory. Sometimes it's what happened to Lucas. Yeah,
1:23:33
Speaker 2: and you're not a bad friend for not saying that.
1:23:35
Speaker 4: Yeah.
1:23:35
Speaker 7: Sometimes they especially if a decision has already been made
1:23:39
Speaker 7: then they've made up their mind on what they want
1:23:41
Speaker 7: to do. Then they want to like protect the people
1:23:43
Speaker 7: around them, so they try their hardest.
1:23:45
Speaker 1: Not I was just going to ask you about that.
1:23:46
Speaker 1: What in your experiences do you see that you know
1:23:50
Speaker 1: kind of once they you know on the baseball diamond
1:23:55
Speaker 1: reference that we've used in the past, you know, once
1:23:57
Speaker 1: they decide.
1:23:59
Speaker 2: Uh.
1:24:00
Speaker 1: And we know what I mean when I say decide,
1:24:02
Speaker 1: Like we're not just not just thinking about it. Seriously
1:24:04
Speaker 1: not planning anymore, like no, I'm doing it, and you
1:24:08
Speaker 1: know they've got it all mapped out and that's what.
1:24:09
Speaker 4: They're going to do.
1:24:11
Speaker 1: Do you Is it common to see kind of an
1:24:15
Speaker 1: obvious turnaround, kind of an obvious change of mood, change
1:24:19
Speaker 1: of attitude at that point that could could from an
1:24:23
Speaker 1: outside to the outside look like, oh my goodness, this
1:24:26
Speaker 1: person is suddenly doing much better.
1:24:28
Speaker 3: That's actually kind of common when dealing with like depression,
1:24:34
Speaker 3: because you do see a little bit of a lift
1:24:37
Speaker 3: of mood in a sense because now they kind of
1:24:40
Speaker 3: feel like the like they see the light at the
1:24:42
Speaker 3: end of the tunnel, like they're like, oh, I've got
1:24:45
Speaker 3: a plan now.
1:24:48
Speaker 2: Yeah, I have control, I have a solution. Now, I
1:24:51
Speaker 2: just want to tidy up my affairs. And a lot
1:24:53
Speaker 2: of times it's like, let me just give a hug.
1:24:55
Speaker 2: But I also don't want to forewarn anybody, and sometimes
1:24:58
Speaker 2: that that can happen where have made up their mind,
1:25:01
Speaker 2: and it can trick a therapist because there was so
1:25:03
Speaker 2: how have you been doing really good? And Whitney, I
1:25:06
Speaker 2: just wanted you to know you're a really wonderful therapist
1:25:08
Speaker 2: and you've done a lot for me and I'm really grateful, Like, thanks, man, I'm.
1:25:12
Speaker 6: So glad to hear that.
1:25:17
Speaker 3: Gives me a compliment and you immediately hit the red button.
1:25:21
Speaker 2: Yeah something's wrong. Yeah, but no, that's a real thing.
1:25:24
Speaker 4: I just felt you're a good golfer. Okay, yeah, this.
1:25:27
Speaker 2: Is a cry for help. No, but yeah, they dupe
1:25:29
Speaker 2: everybody and sometimes that's part of what this can be
1:25:33
Speaker 2: is that somebody has decided they're going to do this,
1:25:35
Speaker 2: and again, their suicide is something that therapists very much
1:25:39
Speaker 2: exists to prevent. But one of the things we have
1:25:42
Speaker 2: to accept is that you can there are illnesses you
1:25:45
Speaker 2: can prevent, like you know, you can deal with certain things.
1:25:47
Speaker 2: And this just happened in the UNLV clinic recently. We had,
1:25:50
Speaker 2: you know, a passing and of course that shook the
1:25:53
Speaker 2: ship out of our students and we had to teach
1:25:56
Speaker 2: them about this and one of the things we had to
1:25:58
Speaker 2: help them understand is this will happen. It doesn't mean
1:26:02
Speaker 2: you're bad at your job because the person you are
1:26:05
Speaker 2: trying to treat as the person with the illness, the
1:26:07
Speaker 2: thing about them that is broken is their brain. So
1:26:10
Speaker 2: like you can do everything you can, you could do
1:26:12
Speaker 2: all the right moves everything that was correct. At the
1:26:14
Speaker 2: end of the day, they still have fundamental autonomy and
1:26:17
Speaker 2: that can include this decision. So anyway, you're a bad
1:26:20
Speaker 2: therapist because you're being taught by Jim Job. That's what
1:26:22
Speaker 2: makes you bad, not because of anything else, not because
1:26:25
Speaker 2: of this. That's right. So you didn't say you felt
1:26:27
Speaker 2: like you were to blame too much in their writer,
1:26:29
Speaker 2: but there was definitely language of like, oh my god,
1:26:32
Speaker 2: when's the last time I talked to this person? Thought
1:26:33
Speaker 2: they were doing bad?
1:26:34
Speaker 6: And I think it's helpful to just share in our mind.
1:26:38
Speaker 1: The reason I asked that is a close friend of
1:26:41
Speaker 1: mine that committed suicide several years ago.
1:26:44
Speaker 2: You know, we saw him a few days yeah.
1:26:47
Speaker 1: Prior, and both of us, my wife and I both
1:26:51
Speaker 1: commented on like, man, it's good to good to see
1:26:54
Speaker 1: our buddy doing well. That was the last thought that we,
1:26:59
Speaker 1: you know, that we had about him after seeing them,
1:27:02
Speaker 1: and then like a week later something like that.
1:27:05
Speaker 6: Yeah.
1:27:06
Speaker 2: Yeah, sometimes they hide it really well, and that's part
1:27:08
Speaker 2: of how they're coping.
1:27:09
Speaker 3: Yeah, And that's I mean, that's that's how they're able
1:27:13
Speaker 3: to function, is by hiding it so well, right, you know,
1:27:16
Speaker 3: And so it's we can't. We can't blame ourselves for that.
1:27:20
Speaker 3: That's like that that's kind.
1:27:21
Speaker 4: Of we're good at it. That's kind of.
1:27:27
Speaker 3: That's kind of the nature of the disease in a sense,
1:27:30
Speaker 3: that's that's one of the symptoms.
1:27:31
Speaker 2: So yeah, but writer, you're coping in all the right ways.
1:27:34
Speaker 2: As Whitney said, I think it's healthy to share stories.
1:27:36
Speaker 2: I think it's healthy to commiserate with people. That was
1:27:39
Speaker 2: something that has gotten me through whenever I've had patients
1:27:42
Speaker 2: or friends that have died by suicide, I've found a
1:27:46
Speaker 2: lot of I think peace and growth by getting a
1:27:49
Speaker 2: chance to talk to mutual contacts and friends and being
1:27:53
Speaker 2: able to debrief and talk about it with them and
1:27:56
Speaker 2: you know, try to support them and let them support
1:27:58
Speaker 2: me and and just cry together and just you know,
1:28:01
Speaker 2: and say things like none of us saw this coming.
1:28:03
Speaker 2: My god, I'm so shocked. Did you see anything, And
1:28:05
Speaker 2: even then noticing little clues like well there was this
1:28:08
Speaker 2: one thing, Oh God, should we have caught that. No, No,
1:28:10
Speaker 2: that's not what we're doing. We're not doing an audit
1:28:12
Speaker 2: to figure out who made mistakes. We're processing something that
1:28:16
Speaker 2: shocked us. And I think that's kind of an angle
1:28:19
Speaker 2: that a lot of people do. But this idea that
1:28:21
Speaker 2: you're noticing of every day of my life, that thousands
1:28:24
Speaker 2: of days I have left, this person is no longer
1:28:27
Speaker 2: part of that, they are no longer available to be
1:28:30
Speaker 2: in any of those days. That's a really profound way
1:28:33
Speaker 2: you language, that writer, And to me, I just think
1:28:36
Speaker 2: that's you. I think drawing on your theological training and
1:28:40
Speaker 2: some of the writing you've probably done and sort of
1:28:42
Speaker 2: your understanding of literature and kind of conceptualizing this in
1:28:46
Speaker 2: that sort of meta existential way. And that's deep, and
1:28:51
Speaker 2: I know also can be like a very abyz thought,
1:28:54
Speaker 2: like oh my God, like I'm staring into the dark,
1:28:57
Speaker 2: and that's probably how your soul is processing this too.
1:29:00
Speaker 2: That's okay for that to be your way.
1:29:03
Speaker 1: It's like the first time I saw Godfather three, Okay,
1:29:07
Speaker 1: I was. It wasn't It just wasn't very good compared
1:29:10
Speaker 1: to the other two.
1:29:11
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, coola, No, there it is. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
1:29:16
Speaker 2: I was wondering when we're gonna get back to you.
1:29:17
Speaker 3: Probably not the right time to bring this up, but
1:29:19
Speaker 3: I've not seen any of the Godfathers.
1:29:20
Speaker 6: No, No, I'm just gonna say the same thing. I'm like,
1:29:22
Speaker 6: but I can't.
1:29:24
Speaker 1: The first two were sensational. The third one gets a
1:29:27
Speaker 1: bad rap for being a bad movie. It's not a
1:29:30
Speaker 1: bad movie, it's just bad compared to the two sensational
1:29:32
Speaker 1: movies that start.
1:29:33
Speaker 2: So sensationals big. The first one was great, Yeah, I
1:29:37
Speaker 2: loved it. Second one got a little tired dealing with
1:29:41
Speaker 2: all this legal bullshit.
1:29:42
Speaker 1: The second one is widely considered to be one of
1:29:45
Speaker 1: the only ones on the short list where the sequel
1:29:47
Speaker 1: is better than the original movie.
1:29:49
Speaker 2: I've heard that's part.
1:29:52
Speaker 1: It's really like Godfather to Star Wars, Empire Strikes.
1:29:56
Speaker 2: Back, Battlefield Earth too.
1:29:58
Speaker 4: Right, I mean, it couldn't be the first one.
1:30:02
Speaker 2: This is probably true. Spaceballs to the search for more
1:30:06
Speaker 2: money listeners.
1:30:07
Speaker 3: I dare you to find another podcast out there that
1:30:10
Speaker 3: can shift so you yeah, yeah.
1:30:12
Speaker 4: What we do is a suicide joke about drinking milk.
1:30:18
Speaker 2: Yeah, you could question, and the writer has been listening
1:30:22
Speaker 2: long enough to go. I know they have good hearts.
1:30:24
Speaker 2: It will be fine. That's part of how they deal
1:30:26
Speaker 2: with this and part of how they teach.
1:30:28
Speaker 3: But okay, I've never done the milk thing, but did
1:30:31
Speaker 3: you know, Yeah, okay, there's the saltine cracker.
1:30:35
Speaker 2: Have you done that?
1:30:37
Speaker 3: Four saltine crackers in one minute? Yeah, it seems like
1:30:41
Speaker 3: it seems like, of course you can do that. I've
1:30:44
Speaker 3: never been able to do it.
1:30:45
Speaker 4: Can you? Can you drink a glass of water first? No?
1:30:48
Speaker 3: You can't have any water first? No, And then you
1:30:52
Speaker 3: have to fully eat one cracker and digest it before.
1:30:58
Speaker 4: You put the neck. I did that because I could
1:31:00
Speaker 4: shove four in my mouth an one minute.
1:31:03
Speaker 2: Okay, challenge.
1:31:07
Speaker 4: Something that I get up in my mouth.
1:31:09
Speaker 2: We're gonna find out at the putting wrestling match, Okay,
1:31:12
Speaker 2: end of the year, that's when we're going to get
1:31:14
Speaker 2: this ship. I did that with cinnamon. I did a mouthful.
1:31:18
Speaker 2: It just dries out your mouth so much, and like
1:31:21
Speaker 2: turns out, your digestive system relies on saliva and your
1:31:24
Speaker 2: body will reject anything without it. But the milk thing
1:31:28
Speaker 2: fucking sucks. So that was our high school right of
1:31:30
Speaker 2: passage at summer camp in our church youth group was
1:31:34
Speaker 2: all the boys would kinky ship. Yeah, it was only
1:31:39
Speaker 2: not for you ladies.
1:31:42
Speaker 4: Of milk. Milk in the forest.
1:31:45
Speaker 2: Huging on each other. This is for the boys.
1:31:48
Speaker 4: Put all this milk on your face.
1:31:52
Speaker 2: The challenge milk gallon challenge, So we would all go
1:31:55
Speaker 2: down to the little convenience store up in the mountains
1:31:57
Speaker 2: of California at our summer camp and buy us a
1:31:59
Speaker 2: gallon milk each and then come up and then the
1:32:02
Speaker 2: rookie same time, you're trying to drink the whole thing. Yeah,
1:32:06
Speaker 2: that was the dumb assirs. So the one was two percent.
1:32:10
Speaker 3: Yeah, the rule is everybody to get to I didn't
1:32:12
Speaker 3: even know they sold buttermilk by the.
1:32:14
Speaker 2: Gall I didn't even get this to warm it us
1:32:18
Speaker 2: and melt. It's just butter. Yeah, it is fucking sucks.
1:32:23
Speaker 2: So it all gets in there and then like you know,
1:32:26
Speaker 2: everybody just starts puking, and you puke a lot, and
1:32:28
Speaker 2: you know, once you puk so you don't drink anymore.
1:32:31
Speaker 4: Yeah, pretty much.
1:32:32
Speaker 3: I know.
1:32:32
Speaker 2: It's everything, And it's so awful because if you don't puke,
1:32:36
Speaker 2: you have a gallon of a cur in your stomach.
1:32:41
Speaker 2: It is not designed to hold a gallon of a fluid,
1:32:45
Speaker 2: but wants the fluid to pass to other things.
1:32:47
Speaker 1: It can't because it dies at all. You're just going
1:32:53
Speaker 1: to spend the next few days yourself.
1:32:55
Speaker 2: Yeah, they have I think stopped doing this kind of
1:32:57
Speaker 2: dumb ship since it's never a good Yeah, kids don't
1:33:00
Speaker 2: do dumb sh it anymore. Yeah, I'm the future is bright. Anyway,
1:33:05
Speaker 2: we are going to go. In the wrapping up the show,
1:33:08
Speaker 2: we want to remind you you can sign up at
1:33:09
Speaker 2: patreon dot com slash therapy. You can get the extended
1:33:11
Speaker 2: show ad free a day earlier, as well as enjoy
1:33:15
Speaker 2: our live chat, discord community, and our weekly deep dives, interview,
1:33:19
Speaker 2: skill shares, research round ups and rants. This week you'll
1:33:22
Speaker 2: be hearing my fifth installment of the ten Questions Every
1:33:26
Speaker 2: Therapist should Ask themselves, I think. And I also have
1:33:29
Speaker 2: upcoming an interview with two marriage and family therapy students. Yeah,
1:33:35
Speaker 2: that was really neat. So we got to talk about
1:33:36
Speaker 2: their discipline and in kind of what they're working on,
1:33:39
Speaker 2: and they they were interviewing me for a school paper
1:33:42
Speaker 2: where they needed to interview an addictions person and so
1:33:44
Speaker 2: that was pretty fun. So we got to talk.
1:33:45
Speaker 4: About the interview. Some fun addicted to math.
1:33:51
Speaker 2: Is that any man, we saw your out on Craigslist,
1:33:53
Speaker 2: they just want to ask the question therapist. So anyway,
1:33:58
Speaker 2: check it out patroon dot com slash therapy. Rene day
1:34:00
Speaker 2: we release new.
1:34:00
Speaker 1: Stuff the gym's go to joke there is I'm addicted
1:34:03
Speaker 1: to mad.
1:34:05
Speaker 2: That's the that's the move go to always it's math.
1:34:11
Speaker 2: So you have every Monday check it out. We release
1:34:13
Speaker 2: something every Monday, except when Nick doesn't feel like it.
1:34:16
Speaker 3: Almost every Monday. We really need to get Whitney some
1:34:20
Speaker 3: recording equipment.
1:34:25
Speaker 6: Thank you, he's looking at me.
1:34:28
Speaker 2: You're just gonna drop off of your house, driving off.
1:34:34
Speaker 2: I don't want to do this anymore, all right, So
1:34:37
Speaker 2: check it out patron dot com slash therapy and welcome
1:34:39
Speaker 2: to the new folks who have joined the therap party.
1:34:41
Speaker 2: Who's new to the tribe there, Nick?
1:34:43
Speaker 3: We got Christina Marie finally, thank you joining us as
1:34:46
Speaker 3: a therapal. And Scorn. I assume that's Michael Scorn probably
1:34:51
Speaker 3: I don't know for sure, but yes. And then we
1:34:54
Speaker 3: got two new therapods, Jesse Miller and Adam Goff.
1:34:59
Speaker 2: Awesome.
1:34:59
Speaker 4: You know Adam Adam Goff from Australia.
1:35:03
Speaker 2: Yeah, the Australian golfs Yeah, I know that. Yeah, my
1:35:08
Speaker 2: favorite Adam.
1:35:09
Speaker 4: Thank you all the Adam Goff that I know, I
1:35:11
Speaker 4: know it.
1:35:11
Speaker 2: Adam Goff probably he was at scoop Fest then I definitely.
1:35:15
Speaker 1: Know yes, I do know that Adam Golf, not the
1:35:18
Speaker 1: Adam Golf I was thinking of to Adam Goff's.
1:35:21
Speaker 2: That's odd.
1:35:22
Speaker 4: You know.
1:35:22
Speaker 2: It's funny because on the way home today we went
1:35:25
Speaker 2: to the Calbunga Bay, the wet and wild. You know
1:35:28
Speaker 2: that that's pretty cool. And uh, on the way home
1:35:30
Speaker 2: that one of my kids goes, Dad, have you ever
1:35:33
Speaker 2: met somebody whose name really was John Smith? Like that
1:35:39
Speaker 2: just is a fake name, right, And I was like, no,
1:35:40
Speaker 2: I know it, Jacob Smith. And They're like, really, like
1:35:45
Speaker 2: uncle Jacob Smith.
1:35:47
Speaker 1: Also, John Smith is a very famous historical figure.
1:35:51
Speaker 2: Yeah, Pocahontas. That's what I know from, mostly from the
1:35:56
Speaker 2: Disney movie. Also, I had an uncle named John Smith.
1:35:59
Speaker 4: I did not.
1:36:00
Speaker 6: I was like, there's got to be a John in
1:36:02
Speaker 6: your face.
1:36:02
Speaker 2: Of course, Yeah, somebody was a John. Anyway, there are partners.
1:36:07
Speaker 2: We'd like to thank the benevolent, revered Jenners and flagrantly
1:36:10
Speaker 2: pro Therapy diehearts who love you all so much they
1:36:12
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1:36:15
Speaker 2: And we want to especially think our bosses, the mysterious
1:36:18
Speaker 2: and shrouded Illuminati, members of the fan club, the therap producers.
1:36:21
Speaker 2: Thank you, Jake Schneider, Myra, I'm thank you for the trivia.
1:36:23
Speaker 2: By the way, Meyer, We're still using it. Robert Brownie Junior, Mint,
1:36:26
Speaker 2: Smitty Scoop, Ben Don, Judy Schneider, Kayla Lansberry, Malia Leon
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1:36:54
Speaker 4: And if you.
1:36:55
Speaker 3: Would like to hear this episode uncut and unedited and
1:37:00
Speaker 3: enjoy our spontaneous side projects, go to patreon dot com
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Speaker 3: slash therapy and thank you for supporting mental health.
1:37:05
Speaker 2: That's all the time I got for this, make session
1:37:07
Speaker 2: one of the our Landlords Met Maddingly's ice Cream Social podcast,
1:37:10
Speaker 2: And thanks to those of you who contributed to our
1:37:12
Speaker 2: show today. We really appreciate it. Remember, pot therapy isn't
1:37:17
Speaker 2: something you sho keep all of yourself. Fuck the social
1:37:19
Speaker 2: media message. We need trivia, Okay, send us trivia pot
1:37:22
Speaker 2: Therapy guys at gmail dot com. Come with your own trivia.
1:37:25
Speaker 2: Blackout the answers. Make sure that Nick can't fucking cheat
1:37:28
Speaker 2: because he's got to space him way down. So answer
1:37:32
Speaker 2: to space it way out to the bottom. Yeah, then
1:37:33
Speaker 2: make sure we can't A. Yeah, there's ways you'll figure
1:37:37
Speaker 2: that shit out anyway. Send that ship to us pot
1:37:39
Speaker 2: therapy guys at gmail dot com.
1:37:40
Speaker 3: Do you want to spend a question to the show,
1:37:43
Speaker 3: You can ask anonymously at pod therapy dot net or
1:37:45
Speaker 3: email it's at pot therapy guys at gmail dot com.
1:37:48
Speaker 4: I'm nec tangment.
1:37:50
Speaker 7: I'm winnings week like I'm
1:37:54
Speaker 6: Not paying attention to