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BNY's Jose Minaya on How AI Is Transforming Asset Management · Masters in Business

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  Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. This is Masters in
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  Speaker 1: Business with Barry Ritholts on Bloomberg Radio.
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  Speaker 2: On the latest Masters in Business podcast Wow. Jose Menaya
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  Speaker 2: runs wealth management services at B and Y Bank in
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  Speaker 2: New York. Incredible bank, incredible history. They're literally the first bank.
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  Speaker 2: Bn Y is the first bank in America, the first
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  Speaker 2: publicly listed stock on the New York Stock Exchange. Not
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  Speaker 2: only do they have two point two trillion in assets,
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  Speaker 2: but they touch about one out of every five dollars
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  Speaker 2: in assets globally. They touch, you know, sixty seventy trillion
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  Speaker 2: dollars worth of assets, whether it's through their clearing, their infrastructure,
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  Speaker 2: their custodianship. They're just a massive bank, the oldest bank
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  Speaker 2: in America, the first bank in America, formed by Alexander Hamilton.
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  Speaker 2: Jose has a fascinating background and a fascinating career as
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  Speaker 2: both a chief investment Officer and CEO. Few people are
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  Speaker 2: better positioned to talk about not only what's happening in
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  Speaker 2: the state of wealth management in the US and globally,
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  Speaker 2: but what's coming next, What digital technology and tokenization means
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  Speaker 2: for asset managers, as well as the impact of AI
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  Speaker 2: on how we're all going to deal with our dollars.
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  Speaker 2: I thought this conversation was absolutely fascinating, and I think
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  Speaker 2: you will also with no further ado, my Master's in
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  Speaker 2: Business interview of BN wise jose Manayah. So let's start
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  Speaker 2: out talking about your background Bachelor's and finance from Manhattan College,
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  Speaker 2: an MBA from Tuck Business School at Dartmouth. What was
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  Speaker 2: the career plan?
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  Speaker 3: You know, I my career plan was always a work
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  Speaker 3: in progress. I always say I almost had like a
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  Speaker 3: little bit of a Forest Gump approach to starting my career.
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  Speaker 3: I first, I'm a first generation American, so you know,
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  Speaker 3: I grew up in Washington Heights to a dominic in
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  Speaker 3: a Dominican family, Dominican parents, So baseball was big my life.
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  Speaker 3: And for a while there I thought I was going
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  Speaker 3: to be a pro baseball player.
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  Speaker 2: Would you play?
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  Speaker 4: I was? I was a pitcher.
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  Speaker 3: Uh huh, did pretty well, did pretty well up until
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  Speaker 3: the point that I didn't and then.
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  Speaker 2: High school of college, high school and college. I pitched
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  Speaker 2: in high school. No curveball. That's the end of your
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  Speaker 2: pitching career.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, I My whole thing is if I threw strikes.
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  Speaker 4: I did pretty well. If I didn't, I was going
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  Speaker 4: to get in trouble.
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  Speaker 2: So you a little control issue? Is that the problem?
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, a little control issues.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's hard to throw both hard and accurately.
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  Speaker 4: Yes it is, Yes, it is.
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  Speaker 3: It's like like everything else, it's about trying to find
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  Speaker 3: the balance.
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  Speaker 4: Right.
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  Speaker 2: So that's right. So you mentioned your first generation American.
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  Speaker 2: How did that affect you? What? What does that do
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  Speaker 2: to your world? You your work ethic, How does it
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  Speaker 2: affect your outlook and career progress?
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  Speaker 3: I think being a first gen and and just kind
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  Speaker 3: of my you know, the neighborhood I grew up which
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  Speaker 3: I often described to people. You know, if you've been
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  Speaker 3: to Chinatown, well, Washington High School, and I grew up
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  Speaker 3: there was the Dominican version of Chinatown. But look, I
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  Speaker 3: mean I grew up around strong family values. I had
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  Speaker 3: a great home life, very privileged that way, strong work.
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  Speaker 4: Ethic coming in, but I but I did.
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  Speaker 3: But I did grow up in a bubble, right, So
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  Speaker 3: one end what I took with me when I exited
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  Speaker 3: or left that bubble was work, work ethic, was kind
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  Speaker 3: of really understanding relationships and that. But then when I
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  Speaker 3: left that bubble, it was more defined by Okay, I
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  Speaker 3: was in different audiences. I was in situations where then
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  Speaker 3: more acclimating was kind of more my focus and my
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  Speaker 3: goal for early early part of my career.
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  Speaker 2: Really really interesting. You come out of talk, you end
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  Speaker 2: up being an analyst. Tell us about the early days
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  Speaker 2: post post grad school.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think post grad school, I was still trying
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  Speaker 3: to figure out what I what I really wanted to do,
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  Speaker 3: because you know, if I even go pre you know,
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  Speaker 3: coming out of undergrad, you know, I had a finance degree,
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  Speaker 3: I was good at math, and you know, I asked people,
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  Speaker 3: what are you supposed to do with this? And people
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  Speaker 3: mentioned Wall Street in firms like JP Morgan and Goldman Sachs,
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  Speaker 3: and I was fortunate enough to get a job at
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  Speaker 3: JP Morgan. I went everyone was taking a gmat. I
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  Speaker 3: had no idea what a gmat was, but I figured
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  Speaker 3: I'm supposed to take it as well, and I went
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  Speaker 3: to grad school. And then coming out of grad school,
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  Speaker 3: I went back to Wall Street. I not necessarily thinking
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  Speaker 3: that's what I wanted my career to be, but I
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  Speaker 3: didn't really have a plan for anything else. I think
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  Speaker 3: as I started really searching around what I wanted to do,
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  Speaker 3: and instead of advising people, kind of doing things that
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  Speaker 3: we're going to be there for the long term, build something,
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  Speaker 3: you know. I found my way into the byside, right,
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  Speaker 3: and that my first job kind of in investing, working
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  Speaker 3: at AIG Global Investment group.
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  Speaker 4: I think today it's called.
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  Speaker 3: Pinebridge, but that was my first real investing job, and
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  Speaker 3: even there finding my way. I started out inequities and
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  Speaker 3: I was like, Okay, I like this, but I felt like,
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  Speaker 3: you know, the other side, as I ran into people
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  Speaker 3: on the bond side and private credit, I felt that
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  Speaker 3: that was more kind of cash flow based versus I
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  Speaker 3: used to get annoyed where my model. I felt like
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  Speaker 3: my models were right, but the markets never cooperated with
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  Speaker 3: so it didn't matter that I was right.
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  Speaker 4: I felt more at home.
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  Speaker 3: In that environment where it was more around, okay, how
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  Speaker 3: how do I judge the downside? How do I kind
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  Speaker 3: of really analyze cash flows? And then I found myself
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  Speaker 3: on the by side and I found myself as a
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  Speaker 3: private credit manager. I think from there, interesting enough, I said, hey, this,
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  Speaker 3: I found my thing.
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  Speaker 4: I love doing this.
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  Speaker 3: And I always found myself in situations where I did
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  Speaker 3: what I did really well and somebody always asked me
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  Speaker 3: to do a little more. And in that little more,
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  Speaker 3: it was always kind of like extending myself and say, okay,
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  Speaker 3: am I still the smme? Or am I now gathering
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  Speaker 3: and doing different things? And then ultimately, especially when I
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  Speaker 3: was at TIA, it was this idea of like, oh,
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  Speaker 3: you know, should we go into agriculture, should we go
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  Speaker 3: into commodities? And I was like, well, here, I'm a
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  Speaker 3: kid from New York City. I don't really know anything
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  Speaker 3: about agriculture and commodities, but you know what, I kind
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  Speaker 3: of dived in and said this is interesting. This was
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  Speaker 3: the other thing that took me to another place in
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  Speaker 3: my career that I'd say I took another people viewed
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  Speaker 3: as a big risk because at that point, know, I
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  Speaker 3: was managing about a fifteen billion dollar private credit portfolio.
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  Speaker 3: Back then that was a that was a pretty major thing.
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  Speaker 2: Like a lot of money.
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  Speaker 4: I felt like a lot of money and it was
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  Speaker 4: and is.
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  Speaker 3: And I kind of made a decision from doing these
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  Speaker 3: kind of nights and weekends on this project of going
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  Speaker 3: into farmland, I made a decision to say, you know what,
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  Speaker 3: I'm going to leave all this behind. I want to
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  Speaker 3: go try to build this and even the CIO at
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  Speaker 3: the time said, are you sure you want to do this?
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  Speaker 4: Because you know, maybe I'll.
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  Speaker 3: Tell you what, why don't you give this a run?
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  Speaker 3: But you know what, we'll keep your job warm for you.
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  Speaker 4: Here. I think he figured he'll come running back in
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  Speaker 4: six months.
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  Speaker 2: Give this a run, meaning the CIO position.
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  Speaker 4: Meeting running a farmland fund.
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  Speaker 2: Oh okay.
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  Speaker 3: And you know, so I went out and said, oh,
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  Speaker 3: I want to do this. We ended up becoming the
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  Speaker 3: largest farmland fund institutional manager for farmland assets globally.
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  Speaker 4: At the time.
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  Speaker 3: And you know, one of the things that my philosophy
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  Speaker 3: and doing these things is you know, taking the confidence
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  Speaker 3: to always kind of try things that get me excited
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  Speaker 3: and that I feel passionate about. But I think throughout
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  Speaker 3: my investing life, you know one mantra I've always had is,
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  Speaker 3: you know, you've got to be really good at knowing
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  Speaker 3: what you don't know. And that comes with being more humble,
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  Speaker 3: That comes with kind of asking a lot of questions,
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  Speaker 3: not being intimidated by bringing people around you that are
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  Speaker 3: smarter than you. Because I was like, hey, I could
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  Speaker 3: understand people, I can under stand math. Now how do
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  Speaker 3: I fill in these blanks? How do I get people
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  Speaker 3: around me They're going to give me kind of the
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  Speaker 3: knowledge that I know I don't have, and that career
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  Speaker 3: proession was from farmland. They said, hey, w you did
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  Speaker 3: an amazing job. Can you take real estate? Can you
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  Speaker 3: take natural resources? Can you take all of private markets?
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  Speaker 3: And then ultimately can you be the chief investment officer
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  Speaker 3: and then growing that into a acid management firm? And
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  Speaker 3: what I realized was that what I thought my passion
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  Speaker 3: was was in investing, but the real passion that I
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  Speaker 3: really found was was in building, building things, you know,
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  Speaker 3: managing teams and bringing teams together.
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  Speaker 2: So I want to circle back to building what you
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  Speaker 2: did at Nouvene. How do you go from JP Morgan
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  Speaker 2: to AIG to Merrill? What ultimately leads you to Nouveen?
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  Speaker 3: You know, what leads me to Nouvene is just I
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  Speaker 3: always say, like picking up the breadcrumbs.
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  Speaker 4: Right.
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  Speaker 3: I was on a journey of really kind of searching again,
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  Speaker 3: what's my passion, what I want to do. I was
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  Speaker 3: very fortunate, you know, here I am. I'm sitting on
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  Speaker 3: at a job on Wall Street at JP Morgan. Very
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  Speaker 3: fortunate to have it, but I couldn't see myself doing
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  Speaker 3: that job for twenty years. Then I'm like, oh, I'm
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  Speaker 3: fortunate to get a job on the byside, and I'm like, okay,
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  Speaker 3: this is great.
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  Speaker 4: I'm at AIG.
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  Speaker 3: You know, it's a terrific opportunity, terrific firm. Yet there's
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  Speaker 3: still that thing that I'm kind of still trying to
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  Speaker 3: find that feels like, hey, what's really getting my juices going?
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  Speaker 3: And you know, it was always that search for that
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  Speaker 3: thing that kind of made me get up early in
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  Speaker 3: the morning. And when I ultimately landed at Newvine, which
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  Speaker 3: was part of TIA, that was that role. And I
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  Speaker 3: ended up being there twenty years. And I would tell
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  Speaker 3: you the large the longest role I've ever had in
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  Speaker 3: my life in my entire career was my five years
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  Speaker 3: or so, as is my role as CEO there.
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  Speaker 2: Even twenty years is a long time in the modern
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  Speaker 2: world to be at any one firm. It seems people
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  Speaker 2: don't do that anymore. What was it that kept you there?
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  Speaker 2: It sounds like they kept pilot on new challenges and
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  Speaker 2: really keeping you engaged.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's exactly right, meaning like the longest role I've
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  Speaker 3: had in my career is the five years I was
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  Speaker 3: the CEO part of that Every three four years someone
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  Speaker 3: was giving me something else to build.
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  Speaker 4: I always say, I get itchy.
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  Speaker 3: Maybe I'm not the best steward in the world, but
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  Speaker 3: what does get me excited is building things, kind of
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  Speaker 3: building new teams, you know, the challenge of kind of
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  Speaker 3: like growing a capability, and I got to do that.
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  Speaker 3: Over the course of twenty years. I've been extremely blessed
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  Speaker 3: and same thing and moving to my role now it's
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  Speaker 3: a tremendous opportunity. And you know, I could still say
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  Speaker 3: that twenty plus years. I still get excited every morning
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  Speaker 3: to kind of go to work.
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  Speaker 2: When you say building new teams, give us an example
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  Speaker 2: of some of the sort of teams you helped build
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  Speaker 2: that kept you occupied for twenty years.
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  Speaker 3: Sure, I mean one I mentioned the Farmland example. That
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  Speaker 3: was a complete startup.
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  Speaker 2: From scratch, from zero.
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  Speaker 3: From zero dollars to kind of go in and building
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  Speaker 3: a team. You know, very proud of what we did
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  Speaker 3: in private credit. You know, we started the Churchill Group
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  Speaker 3: with you know again that was finding the right people,
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  Speaker 3: finding Ken Kinsell, who was a tremendous leader and had
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  Speaker 3: a team with him, and we started with zero. Today,
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  Speaker 3: that broader platform at Neuvene is almost you know, just
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  Speaker 3: short of one hundred billion in private credit. So there's
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  Speaker 3: multiple examples like that where the basically the blueprint was
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  Speaker 3: either we were doing an acquisition or we were finding
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  Speaker 3: a team, and we're saying, Okay, we've got the right
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  Speaker 3: makings here of a team. How do we give this
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  Speaker 3: team the right tools and go out and try to
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  Speaker 3: grow grow a platform.
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  Speaker 2: So you're no strange too. Alternatives. We've talked about farmland,
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  Speaker 2: real estate, private credit, private debt, natural resources. What is
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  Speaker 2: your view today on alts? What do you think about
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  Speaker 2: what kind of feels a little bit like a land rush?
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  Speaker 2: What's going on in the world of altz today?
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, and you know it feels like a land rush,
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  Speaker 3: but I will tell you that this has been building
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  Speaker 3: for some time. And the interesting thing is, you know,
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  Speaker 3: if I go back ten fifteen years ago, my pitch
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  Speaker 3: talking to clients around alternatives was one that was largely academic, right,
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  Speaker 3: It was this idea of diversification.
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  Speaker 4: Diversification.
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  Speaker 3: Hey, by the way, I know you haven't seen inflation
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  Speaker 3: in twenty years, but it may show up, and if
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  Speaker 3: it does, are you protected for it? By the way,
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  Speaker 3: you may be going to a market where there's a
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  Speaker 3: lot more volatility. Have you thought about that? And then also, hey,
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  Speaker 3: have you thought about yield? You know, you know there's
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  Speaker 3: ways to kind of think about principal protection and your
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  Speaker 3: portfolio and then yield and alternatives. I would say it's
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  Speaker 3: just the way of bringing in the right correlations into
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  Speaker 3: your portfolio. And some of the biggest alpha and alternatives
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  Speaker 3: is the lack of access.
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  Speaker 2: Meaning the iloquidly you can't sell in a panic because
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  Speaker 2: the market's a off eight percent.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, and in many ways, you know you're you're going
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  Speaker 3: to kind of structure and get a return you're looking
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  Speaker 3: for because you need to have a specific skill or
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  Speaker 3: access point to get those assets, so that maybe the
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  Speaker 3: market's are a little bit less efficient.
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  Speaker 4: You know.
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  Speaker 3: The interesting thing is today that academic conversation has turned
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  Speaker 3: into urgency.
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  Speaker 4: Right.
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  Speaker 3: So now, while markets have obviously continued to be at
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  Speaker 3: all time highs, I think individual investors have felt what
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  Speaker 3: volatility feels like, whether that was coming out of the
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  Speaker 3: global financial crisis, whether that was at of COVID and
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  Speaker 3: the pandemic. We have felt and seen a lot of
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  Speaker 3: significant volatility.
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  Speaker 2: Twenty twenty two, first time in forty years, stocks and
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  Speaker 2: bonds both down double digits. Like people seem to think
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  Speaker 2: volatility gets conquered every few years, and whenever there's any
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  Speaker 2: sort of complacency, the market says, now's the time to
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  Speaker 2: teach people volatility never goes away.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, And throughout that, throughout that time period, you've also
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  Speaker 3: have seen the growth of index funds.
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  Speaker 4: Right. So also on top.
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  Speaker 3: Of that is this idea of like you know, I
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  Speaker 3: always say the world's become more commoditized when I entered
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  Speaker 3: the industry, you differentiate it yourself by picking better securities
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  Speaker 3: than the next person and driving returns.
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  Speaker 4: Then all of us sudden there was a focus on cost.
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  Speaker 4: Believe it or not.
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  Speaker 3: Once upon a time, you know, paid nobody paid attention
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  Speaker 3: to fees. I think then it was well, no, you're
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  Speaker 3: going to compete on fees as well, and then became
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  Speaker 3: the race to zero. Today, you know, investment performance is
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  Speaker 3: obviously extremely important, but it's table stakes cost. We're all
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  Speaker 3: we're all kind of basically at the bottom end of
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  Speaker 3: that curve for costs. So now it's more around what
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  Speaker 3: are the outcomes you're going to deliver to someone. Technology
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  Speaker 3: is it's a big component. It is the flexibility that
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  Speaker 3: you offer you offer clients but it is ultimately about
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  Speaker 3: what is the outcomes you're going to get to clients.
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  Speaker 3: And that's seventy thirty portfolio. That passive fund. It said, hey,
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  Speaker 3: you're in a target day fund. You don't have to
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  Speaker 3: do anything, just sit back and it all adjusts and
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  Speaker 3: drives kind of the returns you need. Well, in those
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  Speaker 3: moments where correlations go to one, it didn't feel so good.
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  Speaker 3: That's right, it didn't feel so good. And I think
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  Speaker 3: now there's more sophistication in terms of how you package
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  Speaker 3: you know, solutions, more sophistication now on the need to
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  Speaker 3: get alternatives to clients.
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  Speaker 4: I think these things all now.
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  Speaker 3: I think again, what was an academic conversation today is
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  Speaker 3: is an urgency.
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  Speaker 2: So the phrase I've heard from a number of people
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  Speaker 2: over the past year or so has been seventy thirty,
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  Speaker 2: sixty forty. That's the old way. The new way is
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  Speaker 2: fifty thirty twenty. Are you in that camp?
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, Look, I think fifty thirty, twenty one, thirty thirty. Look,
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  Speaker 3: at the end of the day, I would say it's
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  Speaker 3: not really about whether you should be in the fifty
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  Speaker 3: to thirty. Ultimately, it starts with a conversation around what
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  Speaker 3: are the outcomes you're looking for? What are your needs
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  Speaker 3: right these these markets and when you think about alternatives,
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  Speaker 3: by the way, these are not get rich quick schemes.
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  Speaker 3: These are not like, oh my god, we need alternatis
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  Speaker 3: because there's like this outsized return in many cases. I'd
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  Speaker 3: mentioned to you Farmland that was a four to six
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  Speaker 3: percent return market, but.
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  Speaker 2: Extremely in long time and long term.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, but it gave you a certain correlation. So yes,
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  Speaker 3: fit like all these different mechanisms.
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  Speaker 4: At the end of the.
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  Speaker 3: Day, though, what it's really all about is what are
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  Speaker 3: the outcomes you're trying to drive for your clients, and
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  Speaker 3: what is the sophistication we have and the ability to
• 16:18
  Speaker 3: construct those portfolios? And the most important thing in constructing
• 16:22
  Speaker 3: those portfolios is do you have access to a broad
• 16:25
  Speaker 3: array of capabilities? Because the more access you have to
• 16:28
  Speaker 3: different types of assets, the better the outcome.
• 16:32
  Speaker 4: Is portfolio theory one oh one.
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: Coming up, we continue our conversation with jose Manaiah, global
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: head of b and Wise Investment and Wealth, discussing his
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: experiences at New Veen ti AI. I'm Barry Ritolts. You're
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: listening to Masters in Business on Bloomberg Radio. I'm Barry Redults.
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: You're listening to Masters in Business on Bloomberg Radio. My
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: special guest this week is jose Manaiah. He is the
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: global head of B and Y Investments and Wealth, helping
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: to manage over two point two trillion dollars in client assets.
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: So when you were at Nouvene, you ran about a
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: trillion dollars in assets. You led the company through a
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: big expansion through the COVID pandemic, and then you helped
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: expand the entire digital engagement. Tell us a little bit
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: about what you put together at Neuvene.
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: Well, I think again on veen I if I you know,
• 17:42
  Speaker 3: was quite a twenty year journey because I joined when
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: it was basically just the investment team for TIA.
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: That was right after the dot com implosion around O
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: four something.
• 17:52
  Speaker 4: That was around four.
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: Actually, yeah, I really started in five, and really I
• 17:59
  Speaker 3: was just in it was just an investment team. Like
• 18:01
  Speaker 3: I said, I joined as a fixed income portfolio manager.
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: At the time, we're managing money for about a two
• 18:07
  Speaker 3: hundred billion dollar general account. Everything was based in New
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: York City.
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: When you say general account, you're managing it on behalf
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: of Nouvene, not specific clients.
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: I was managing on behalf of the balance sheet of TIA,
• 18:20
  Speaker 3: which is an insurance which is an insurance company, so
• 18:23
  Speaker 3: largely just that was really the structure Nouve. We had
• 18:28
  Speaker 3: not acquired Nouvine yet at that time. But from that
• 18:31
  Speaker 3: two hundred billion you fast forward to today and what
• 18:35
  Speaker 3: I was there to help build and it became a
• 18:37
  Speaker 3: trillion dollar asset manager, one where it still managed the
• 18:41
  Speaker 3: approximately two hundred billion dollar balance sheet, but then it
• 18:44
  Speaker 3: raised another eight hundred plus billion and just outside capital
• 18:47
  Speaker 3: and these are sobbing wealth funds, wealth platforms, retail, and
• 18:53
  Speaker 3: it grew to about almost two hundred and fifty billion
• 18:58
  Speaker 3: in alternatives as well, So pretty diversified, diversified shop, which
• 19:04
  Speaker 3: now you're seeing a lot of firms trying to kind
• 19:06
  Speaker 3: of capture that same not just scale, but diversity in
• 19:11
  Speaker 3: their business.
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: Let's talk a little bit about real assets that you've
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: had a lot of background in. Tell us about real estate, agriculture, timber, infrastructure.
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: Tell us how you built those areas previously at Neuvene,
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: now at B and Y.
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: Sure And I think, look, I think first of you
• 19:28
  Speaker 3: think about those different asset classes. I go back to
• 19:31
  Speaker 3: these are not typically, you know, strategies that you're trying
• 19:34
  Speaker 3: to get outsized returns. If they sometimes they come and
• 19:38
  Speaker 3: they're very much welcomed. They're typically pretty structured transactions, right,
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: whether it's buildings with rents, farmland with the leases, infrastructure
• 19:48
  Speaker 3: with kind of twenty thirty year contracts. Often there is
• 19:52
  Speaker 3: a hedge against inflation, whether that is contractual or just
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: by the nature of the commodity.
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: So prices go up. Langos follows.
• 20:01
  Speaker 3: So the simple kind of math on these things are
• 20:03
  Speaker 3: I'm clipping a coupon, so there's a yield component and
• 20:07
  Speaker 3: it's a pretty steady one. I have a gold like
• 20:11
  Speaker 3: protection because if you think about what do I own.
• 20:15
  Speaker 3: I own farmland in a particular case, well, that produces
• 20:20
  Speaker 3: a need for society and perpetuity, So there's a certain
• 20:23
  Speaker 3: kind of protection in your principle in owning that, or
• 20:26
  Speaker 3: you know wind farms. Just again there's intrinsic value. I
• 20:30
  Speaker 3: have a yield, but it's usually tied to a commodity,
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: and because of that, there's also an inflation hedge component
• 20:36
  Speaker 3: to it, and it brings down my volatility because it's
• 20:39
  Speaker 3: again it's more of that consistent return profile. So it
• 20:43
  Speaker 3: plays that part in portfolios that it gives a yield,
• 20:47
  Speaker 3: It gives it in a way that should be pretty
• 20:49
  Speaker 3: kind of high sharp ratio, lower volatility. Now today that
• 20:54
  Speaker 3: market is starting, it's trying to get into more mainstream. Now,
• 20:58
  Speaker 3: if I fast forward to my opportunity going to Be
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: and Why. Now, look, I had that journey in my
• 21:05
  Speaker 3: previous life. What I saw in Be and Why is
• 21:07
  Speaker 3: where the industry is going right B and Y. Obviously
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: it's two times the size of where where I came from,
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: but it's also part of BE and Why.
• 21:15
  Speaker 4: The bank and Be and Why.
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: The bank touches about a fit a fifth of the
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: world's investable assets. So there's almost amazing, Yeah, there's almost
• 21:24
  Speaker 3: sixty trillion dollars, call it fifty five to fifty six
• 21:27
  Speaker 3: trillion to be exact, that the bank is touching, and
• 21:30
  Speaker 3: it's either managing these assets, it's either custoding these assets,
• 21:34
  Speaker 3: or it's helping move kind of the financial the global
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: financial markets around. That is tremendous kind of access points
• 21:41
  Speaker 3: to someone like me sitting as an asset manager because
• 21:45
  Speaker 3: I'm working at I'm working at a firm that is
• 21:47
  Speaker 3: one of the largest asset servicers in the world. It
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: also is one of the largest services to wealth platforms.
• 21:54
  Speaker 3: I registered investment advisors. Well, I have a wealth platform,
• 21:58
  Speaker 3: I manage I manage an investment platform. How do I
• 22:01
  Speaker 3: get advantage of the fact that there's tremendous technology being
• 22:05
  Speaker 3: invested to help serve asset managers? And if you go
• 22:10
  Speaker 3: back to a comment that we talked about previously, which
• 22:13
  Speaker 3: is if the world's becoming more commoditized with performance and cost,
• 22:18
  Speaker 3: then what is the difference? The difference in what is
• 22:21
  Speaker 3: the tip of the spere is technology? You hear about
• 22:24
  Speaker 3: tokenized assets, which of which B and Y is on
• 22:26
  Speaker 3: the forefront. That's just about helping clients move money quicker.
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: To define what tokenized assets mean when we're talking about
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: stops or bonds.
• 22:35
  Speaker 3: I think the simplest way that I think about tokenized
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: assets is it's an ability to again be more liquid,
• 22:42
  Speaker 3: Meaning if you were in a T plus one scenario,
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: do you have the ability to be in a T
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: plus five minutes?
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: So for the layperson, T plus one means you sell
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: something today, it clears tomorrow, the cash is in your
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: account one day later. T plus zero, as some people
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: call it, means you sell it and you instantly get
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: the cash. Is that what tokenization does for for people?
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: That's a big component. So that's creating that liquidity where
• 23:09
  Speaker 3: if you had to wait twenty four hours, now you
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: can wait a lot less than twenty four hours. The
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: other thing that it helps do is also kind of
• 23:17
  Speaker 3: you're able to earn a yield on but.
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: You're getting the cash now. For most people, one day
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: doesn't matter. But scale that up to an institution, scale
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: it up to a banker, ensure that day times thousands
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: and thousands of accounts and transactions really adds up, doesn't it.
• 23:34
  Speaker 3: I mean, scale that to again, B and Y is
• 23:36
  Speaker 3: kind of touching and helping move fifty five trillion dollars.
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: So T plus zero or T plus five minutes that's
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: much better than T plus one.
• 23:45
  Speaker 3: And it's a big difference. And your ability again to
• 23:47
  Speaker 3: potentially earn a yield in that process also right in
• 23:52
  Speaker 3: that whole T plus one in that twenty four hours,
• 23:55
  Speaker 3: In many cases you're not able to earn a yield
• 23:57
  Speaker 3: while that money is clearing.
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: So back in any battle days when it was T
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: plus three, we were always told, hey, it takes three
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: days to just make sure there's no fraud. The right
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: stock is going to the right buyer, the money goes
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: to the right account, and when they got trunk down
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: to one day. Well, technology has allowed us to do this,
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: but we still need a day just to verify everything.
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: What is it that allows us to go to T
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: plus zero? Is it just technology? Tell us how that works?
• 24:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think obviously the blockchain technology is one component.
• 24:35
  Speaker 3: The other component is the fact that you know, one
• 24:38
  Speaker 3: of the reasons being why I can lead in this
• 24:39
  Speaker 3: area is that it custodies around eighty plus percent of
• 24:44
  Speaker 3: the digital assets.
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: Digital assets meanwhile ethereum, bitcoin, any other sort of things
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: like that.
• 24:50
  Speaker 3: And it's one of the It is the largest custodian
• 24:53
  Speaker 3: in the world in general. So clearing something becomes a
• 24:56
  Speaker 3: lot easier when it's all sitting inside. I mean, think
• 24:59
  Speaker 3: about a warehouse. I don't have to move it from
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: one warehouse to the other. That makes life a lot easier.
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: So that's from one way. You're not even moving it
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: from one road to another. You're just changing the label.
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: Here's who owns this?
• 25:10
  Speaker 4: Yeah, now, and again I will tell you for me.
• 25:12
  Speaker 3: It's I was having a conversation with our CEO about
• 25:15
  Speaker 3: this the other day where I'm like one of the
• 25:17
  Speaker 3: other things I love about my career right now. Look,
• 25:19
  Speaker 3: it's been a long time since I've walked into rooms
• 25:22
  Speaker 3: and I'm learning something because typically, you know, I was
• 25:25
  Speaker 3: a subject matter expert, and typically most rooms that I
• 25:28
  Speaker 3: walked into I felt like I was the expert in
• 25:31
  Speaker 3: that in that category. I'm not an expert on tokenization.
• 25:35
  Speaker 3: I'm not an expert on custody. I work at a
• 25:39
  Speaker 3: firm that has experts, and you know, you're quickly quickly
• 25:44
  Speaker 3: learning and what's important there. I go back to, Hey,
• 25:48
  Speaker 3: but what I do understand, even though I know what
• 25:50
  Speaker 3: I don't know is this matters to my clients. So
• 25:54
  Speaker 3: all of a sudden, if I am trying to think about, hey,
• 25:57
  Speaker 3: how am I pitching my services to clients in Asia
• 26:02
  Speaker 3: and around the globe? And I and I have a
• 26:04
  Speaker 3: differentiating factor, meaning I can help you go to T
• 26:07
  Speaker 3: plus zero. That is a differentiator from a relationship perspective.
• 26:12
  Speaker 3: And this is what I mean by where today it's
• 26:15
  Speaker 3: it's there's so much more consolidation in the asset management
• 26:19
  Speaker 3: industry because scale is important. And why scale important because
• 26:23
  Speaker 3: you then need to be able to service and invest
• 26:25
  Speaker 3: in these technologies to service your client. AI is a
• 26:29
  Speaker 3: big topic today and I would I would argue and say, well,
• 26:34
  Speaker 3: if it's no longer debatable that AI is here and
• 26:37
  Speaker 3: it's going to be disruptive, is going to make a difference.
• 26:39
  Speaker 3: So if you believe that, you also have to believe
• 26:42
  Speaker 3: that the firms who can invest in it are going
• 26:45
  Speaker 3: to be the winners for tomorrow. Now, you know, being
• 26:49
  Speaker 3: able to invest hundreds of millions of dollars in in
• 26:51
  Speaker 3: AI that takes significant scale, That takes kind of diversified businesses,
• 26:57
  Speaker 3: being able to hire engineers. Right, So when I was
• 26:59
  Speaker 3: sitting usually in the role of running an asset management shop,
• 27:03
  Speaker 3: it's very hard for me to even say, how am
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: I even going to attract engineers from solicon Valley? How
• 27:07
  Speaker 3: am I going to be able to pay them? Well,
• 27:09
  Speaker 3: B and Y is a massive tech stack, right, Like
• 27:11
  Speaker 3: they can attract a lot of engineers, they can attract
• 27:14
  Speaker 3: a lot of investment in AI. I just happen to
• 27:16
  Speaker 3: be in that realm, part of that universe, and I'm
• 27:19
  Speaker 3: going to be able to benefit from that technology.
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: So let me step back a second, because we're all
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: guilty of using acronyms and even something like B and why.
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: You and I understand it, but perhaps the listener needs
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: to learn a little more. B and Y is Bank
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: of New York. It's been around for how long?
• 27:40
  Speaker 4: Two hundred and forty plus years. I think I've whear
• 27:42
  Speaker 4: two forty one two.
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: So more than almost two and a half centuries, more
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: than two centuries.
• 27:48
  Speaker 3: I got to add to that because I'm always fat.
• 27:50
  Speaker 3: I will tell you, even as I joined B and Y,
• 27:52
  Speaker 3: there are things I did not know. You know, obviously,
• 27:54
  Speaker 3: it's the first bank in the United States. It was
• 27:56
  Speaker 3: the first bank to issue the first loan or warrant,
• 28:00
  Speaker 3: begun by Alexander Hamilton. It's the first company traded on
• 28:05
  Speaker 3: the New York Sock Exchange, was the first first public company.
• 28:09
  Speaker 3: You know, our first clients of the of the bank
• 28:11
  Speaker 3: where George Washington and Eliza Hamilton and you know. So
• 28:15
  Speaker 3: it's it's just got incredible, incredible.
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: History, unbelievable history. In addition to all that history, B
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: and Y is also affiliated through ownership with a lot
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: of really well known names within finance. Tell us about
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: some of the other divisions that maybe people will be
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: more familiar with those names.
• 28:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and I tell you, I think this has a
• 28:36
  Speaker 3: lot to do with kind of the recent performance you're
• 28:39
  Speaker 3: seeing about the firm, because it's unlocking what we would
• 28:42
  Speaker 3: describe as you know, B and Y is a platform
• 28:45
  Speaker 3: operating has a platform operating model, meaning it has multiple platforms.
• 28:51
  Speaker 4: You know.
• 28:52
  Speaker 3: Of course, it has an asset manager, and it has
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: a wealth business. As we said, it's got a two
• 28:56
  Speaker 3: trillion dollar acid manager. It's got about a three hundred
• 28:59
  Speaker 3: and fifty billion dollar private bank wealth platform. By the way,
• 29:02
  Speaker 3: it also owns pershing.
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: And Giant clearing shop and.
• 29:06
  Speaker 3: And that captures around almost three trillion and advisors advisors
• 29:11
  Speaker 3: capital that it's servicing through a technology and a service
• 29:14
  Speaker 3: and a service platform. It has an asset servicing arm,
• 29:19
  Speaker 3: and that asset servicing is serving both asset managers and
• 29:21
  Speaker 3: asset owners doing things like custody uh, fund accounting. It
• 29:28
  Speaker 3: it has a treasury component as well. You know, the
• 29:31
  Speaker 3: other interesting thing about being WI is it clears all
• 29:35
  Speaker 3: the treasuries of the United States, So, uh, you know,
• 29:38
  Speaker 3: it's a jesip, It's a it's a significant bank, uh
• 29:41
  Speaker 3: and plays an important part in our financial and our
• 29:44
  Speaker 3: financial system.
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: Really really interesting. So tell me the story of how
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: you move from Neuvene to your role as global head
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: of B and Y Investments. You're doubling the size of
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: the assets you're responsible. Have you approach this change? What
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: sort of challenges did you face?
• 30:03
  Speaker 3: You know, I think every challenge that's kind of a
• 30:06
  Speaker 3: that's really attracted me, including what you know, what kept
• 30:09
  Speaker 3: me in my previous role and the different roles I
• 30:12
  Speaker 3: was in It was the opportunity for growth, right, And
• 30:15
  Speaker 3: I think looking at at B and Y and seeing
• 30:19
  Speaker 3: where I believe the industry is going just so a
• 30:21
  Speaker 3: tremendous opportunity of what is a true trillion dollar shop,
• 30:25
  Speaker 3: you know, should should easily be a four trillion dollar shop, right,
• 30:28
  Speaker 3: And you think about the ecosystem that we play in
• 30:31
  Speaker 3: within be and why right, as I mentioned you, you know,
• 30:34
  Speaker 3: we we manage money for other people as an asset manager.
• 30:39
  Speaker 3: We manage money also as a wealth platform for for
• 30:42
  Speaker 3: families and individuals. Yet we also have we also service
• 30:48
  Speaker 3: other wealth advisors through purshing. But there also are the
• 30:53
  Speaker 3: clients of the firm. I'm an acid manager, A lot
• 30:56
  Speaker 3: of my competitors are clients of B and Y as well.
• 30:59
  Speaker 3: So and then you think about the technology that it
• 31:02
  Speaker 3: takes to do all that and and grow that technology stack.
• 31:06
  Speaker 3: I feel like a kid on a candy store for
• 31:08
  Speaker 3: two reasons. One, that's a tremendous amount of infrastructure and
• 31:13
  Speaker 3: capabilities that are there that I should have a home
• 31:17
  Speaker 3: field advantage to. The other thing is that has become
• 31:20
  Speaker 3: a lot easier in my job. Is you know, when
• 31:22
  Speaker 3: you touch a fifth of the world's assets, most people
• 31:27
  Speaker 3: are your clients, So getting having a conversation with potential clients.
• 31:33
  Speaker 4: Is very easy to do.
• 31:34
  Speaker 3: A lot of what you've seen the recent success of
• 31:37
  Speaker 3: B and Y and I think you said this earlier
• 31:39
  Speaker 3: is a collection of a lot of different things that
• 31:41
  Speaker 3: were either acquired or built. Is that, But it was
• 31:45
  Speaker 3: also a very siloed organization for a while. The ability
• 31:48
  Speaker 3: of having that cross connection if I look at a
• 31:51
  Speaker 3: world that AI is going to be important, you know,
• 31:53
  Speaker 3: being able to touch your clients in multiple ways and
• 31:55
  Speaker 3: have broader technology. I am sitting in that in a
• 31:59
  Speaker 3: spot where in those all those platform operating models, I'm
• 32:03
  Speaker 3: two of those, but I'm fitting in pretty well. I'm
• 32:06
  Speaker 3: trying to take the advantage of the other five or
• 32:08
  Speaker 3: six that are around me. A great example of that
• 32:12
  Speaker 3: that I is Archer.
• 32:14
  Speaker 4: Archer is a digital platform. It's a technology platform for SMAs. Right,
• 32:20
  Speaker 4: so I e.
• 32:20
  Speaker 3: Your ability to clients want to be able to We
• 32:23
  Speaker 3: talked about solutions, your ability to go to an Archer.
• 32:26
  Speaker 3: And by the way, my previous job Archer was a
• 32:29
  Speaker 3: client of Archer.
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: And SMA stand for separately managed accounts.
• 32:33
  Speaker 4: Separately managed accounts. So again, now you go back to technology,
• 32:36
  Speaker 4: meaning you may be able to manage bonds and equities
• 32:39
  Speaker 4: and alternatives or even tax managed solutions. Believe it or not.
• 32:44
  Speaker 3: Bringing that together in a package for individuals takes technology.
• 32:48
  Speaker 3: Of course, asset managers traditionally their stock pickers or investors
• 32:52
  Speaker 3: are not technology people. So you go to that platform
• 32:55
  Speaker 3: and do that. Now, when I join B and Y,
• 32:58
  Speaker 3: I'm like, okay, this is great. Acquired Archer. I know
• 33:01
  Speaker 3: that they have a great capability for doing this and
• 33:03
  Speaker 3: this is a growing market. And already our wealth platform
• 33:07
  Speaker 3: is a client of Archer before it was even acquired.
• 33:10
  Speaker 3: The Acid Management on being White was already a client
• 33:13
  Speaker 3: was acquired. Now Archer is also free to grow because
• 33:16
  Speaker 3: it services a broader, broader capability.
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: So if your services be and why and be and why, clients.
• 33:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's important because again, if you think about this,
• 33:25
  Speaker 3: the model of tomorrow and what scale matters is one
• 33:28
  Speaker 3: you can it's its own business and just kind of
• 33:31
  Speaker 3: providing what Archer does to the broader to the broader community,
• 33:36
  Speaker 3: we get an inside where we get an inside view
• 33:38
  Speaker 3: and a home field advantage and getting it ourselves. Typically,
• 33:42
  Speaker 3: if I build my own SMA platform, I have to
• 33:45
  Speaker 3: not worry about how do I feed it to grow it?
• 33:47
  Speaker 3: Other people are feeding it to grow it, and I
• 33:49
  Speaker 3: get the benefit of kind of being attached to it.
• 33:52
  Speaker 3: And I think that connectivity around Hey, everything I do
• 33:56
  Speaker 3: on the acid management side, you know, all those clients
• 33:59
  Speaker 3: are pursing they buy that as well. Should we not
• 34:02
  Speaker 3: be engaging with our clients to do more for them.
• 34:04
  Speaker 3: It's like, sure, we're doing clearing for you and custody
• 34:07
  Speaker 3: and offering you technology. We also have asset management, all
• 34:10
  Speaker 3: of them obviously by asset management as well. So having
• 34:14
  Speaker 3: those connective dots, I think is I think is a
• 34:18
  Speaker 3: tremendous competitive advantage.
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: So I want to talk a little bit about your role.
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: I want to define it better. At NEUVIN, you were
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: CIO and then you were CEO. Two distinct positions. Your
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: title is head Global Head of B and Y Investments
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: and Wealth. Sounds like a little bit of each you're building,
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: but you're also helping to direct the investing. Tell us
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: a little bit about your roles and responsibilities in this
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: new position at B and Y.
• 34:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I look at one end of the
• 34:48
  Speaker 3: spectrum is very similar to my previous role, which is
• 34:51
  Speaker 3: B and WHY Investments. Is an asset manager, you know,
• 34:54
  Speaker 3: obviously it's a much bigger one than the firm came from,
• 34:57
  Speaker 3: but it's an asset manager, and there you know, I'm
• 35:01
  Speaker 3: the chief executive for that particular platform. We also have
• 35:05
  Speaker 3: a wealth platform and very different from asset management. It's
• 35:09
  Speaker 3: more dealing with individuals and advice, but there's also synergies
• 35:13
  Speaker 3: in the business right, meaning if you're a wealth advisor,
• 35:15
  Speaker 3: you're talking about how do you create investment products, how
• 35:19
  Speaker 3: do you source them? What we have investment products, and
• 35:21
  Speaker 3: how do how do we make sure those two groups
• 35:23
  Speaker 3: are talking to each other. What's the products that we're creating.
• 35:27
  Speaker 3: If you're an asset manager, A big part of who
• 35:30
  Speaker 3: our clients are are wealth advisors. So having a good
• 35:33
  Speaker 3: understanding of kind of what wealth advisors need it really
• 35:36
  Speaker 3: helps to have a wealth advisor in house, so I'm
• 35:39
  Speaker 3: managing a larger platform, but at the end of the day,
• 35:42
  Speaker 3: my job is still very similar. It's about picking the
• 35:45
  Speaker 3: right teams and people.
• 35:47
  Speaker 4: You know, we talk about two trillion dollars and I
• 35:49
  Speaker 4: would tell you two trillion should go to four trillion.
• 35:51
  Speaker 4: We don't own any of that money the end of
• 35:53
  Speaker 4: the day.
• 35:54
  Speaker 3: Our biggest value set of what we do and have
• 35:57
  Speaker 3: is our people and obviously the technology that we can
• 36:00
  Speaker 3: offer those folks, but people is kind of really our business.
• 36:03
  Speaker 3: And I've kind of seen my job today really as
• 36:06
  Speaker 3: the chief chief people officer for.
• 36:08
  Speaker 4: How we kind of build teams around this.
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: Coming up, we continue our conversation with jose manya global
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: head of b and WISE Investment and Wealth, discussing his
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: experiences at New Veen TIAA. I'm Barry Ridholts. You're listening
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: to Masters in Business on Bloomberg Radio. I'm Barry Ridults.
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: You're listening to Masters in Business on Bloomberg Radio. My
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: special guest this week is jose Manaiah. He is the
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: global head of b and Y Investments and Wealth, helping
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: to manage over two point two trillion dollars in client assets.
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: So let's talk about who the clients are at B
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: and Y. You mentioned rias and advisors my day job,
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: but you also work with institutions. You work with high
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: net worth and family offices, as well as other players
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: in the investing world who are also clients. Sounds like
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: you guys are a little bit of everything to a
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: lot of different people. How do you keep all that
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: running smoothly? How do you keep all those balls in
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: the air?
• 37:29
  Speaker 4: Yeah?
• 37:30
  Speaker 3: Well, look, I think B and Y is often described
• 37:32
  Speaker 3: as the bank of banks, right because again it's kind
• 37:34
  Speaker 3: of that broader provider and in goes the opportunity set right.
• 37:39
  Speaker 3: Like again, you look at the firm, I don't know
• 37:41
  Speaker 3: the last tight look, that stock was about one oh six.
• 37:44
  Speaker 3: You know, that's in less than a three year span
• 37:47
  Speaker 3: of thereabouts from forty dollars. It makes it one of
• 37:50
  Speaker 3: the best performing kind of financial stock.
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: And financials have been kind of lagging the tech sector
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: for a couple of years. They're stunting to play a
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: little bit of catch up.
• 37:58
  Speaker 4: They're playing a little catchup. They're doing better, but I
• 38:01
  Speaker 4: think few are doing better, if any, are doing better
• 38:04
  Speaker 4: than be And why some of It goes back to
• 38:06
  Speaker 4: that question you just asked me. Yeah, that there's a
• 38:10
  Speaker 4: lot of these the way the way typically these conglomerates
• 38:14
  Speaker 4: or these platforms would typically manage, we're very siloed. You know.
• 38:18
  Speaker 3: The ability to bring in the technology and the leadership
• 38:22
  Speaker 3: to say, how do we have better connectivity across all
• 38:26
  Speaker 3: our platforms is where the value proposition is and the
• 38:29
  Speaker 3: market is seeing that and the market is rewarding that.
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: So it's funny. Earlier we talked about how commoditized so
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: much of the world has become. You're basically saying we
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: need to be an integrated solutions provider and not just
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: have these commoditized silos, which is what exists outside of
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: a mega bank of banks like v.
• 38:50
  Speaker 3: And why Yeah, so much. We used to talk about
• 38:53
  Speaker 3: the you know, concept of selling watches. You know, I
• 38:55
  Speaker 3: think that you know, the world doesn't really it's it's
• 38:58
  Speaker 3: hard to sell watches. Now people are looking for they need,
• 39:02
  Speaker 3: you know, our clients are getting more efficient, they need
• 39:05
  Speaker 3: to scale their operations as well. And it's the idea
• 39:08
  Speaker 3: of like do I want to work with one hundred
• 39:10
  Speaker 3: and fifty managers or am I better off working with
• 39:13
  Speaker 3: twenty thirty or forty. And if I'm going to go
• 39:16
  Speaker 3: from one hundred and fifty different types of managers, you know,
• 39:21
  Speaker 3: to twenty or thirty, how do I pick those twenty
• 39:23
  Speaker 3: or thirty?
• 39:24
  Speaker 4: What's going to differentiate that?
• 39:26
  Speaker 3: So I think a lot of that is is what's
• 39:28
  Speaker 3: driving the need for scale, It's what's driving the need
• 39:31
  Speaker 3: for consolidation, and it's also driving a lot of innovation.
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: So you've mentioned technology a couple of times. We've talked
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: about tokenization and a little bit about AI. What are
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: the big technological trends that we can look for over
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: the next couple of years. Where are you thinking about
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: how technology is going to have the biggest impact on
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: asset managers and on investors.
• 39:57
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's interesting, and honestly, I often my narrative has changed.
• 40:02
  Speaker 4: I used to say, look, AI is going to be
• 40:04
  Speaker 4: very disruptive, but I have no idea if it's five
• 40:07
  Speaker 4: years from now or twenty years from now. And by
• 40:10
  Speaker 4: the way, that makes it very difficult to invest in it,
• 40:13
  Speaker 4: right because it's when are you going to get the
• 40:15
  Speaker 4: returns for it? You know?
• 40:17
  Speaker 3: Clearly now that's come into a lot more clarity because
• 40:20
  Speaker 3: where you know, AI has begun to already yield returns
• 40:24
  Speaker 3: for firms and be and Y is no different is
• 40:27
  Speaker 3: on the productivity side, right you know. I think Being
• 40:29
  Speaker 3: Why is one of the first firms to have digital employees,
• 40:32
  Speaker 3: So digital employees that can work on real problems, and
• 40:36
  Speaker 3: that's driving productivity increases.
• 40:39
  Speaker 4: And that's kind of been a large part of the
• 40:41
  Speaker 4: narrative with AI.
• 40:43
  Speaker 3: Now the new narrative is it can also provide value
• 40:47
  Speaker 3: add So again, an as an investor, do you have
• 40:51
  Speaker 3: the capability of instead of the old way of We're
• 40:54
  Speaker 3: going to look at satellite pictures and see how many
• 40:56
  Speaker 3: cars are there on the driver? Well, now a I
• 40:59
  Speaker 3: can actually track devices and kind of see where things
• 41:02
  Speaker 3: are coming. AI is able to go through a lot
• 41:06
  Speaker 3: more information and and asseeminate that information. So uh, you know,
• 41:11
  Speaker 3: I I still say that human beings with a I
• 41:14
  Speaker 3: will be better than human beings without AI.
• 41:17
  Speaker 4: I e.
• 41:17
  Speaker 3: You're still going to need the component for for human
• 41:20
  Speaker 3: beings in the mix. But so much of the future
• 41:24
  Speaker 3: is unknown and and and by the way, I think
• 41:27
  Speaker 3: that's also the uneasy part that we are today in
• 41:29
  Speaker 3: our markets because if you if you speak to individuals
• 41:33
  Speaker 3: on one end, I can kind of picture and say
• 41:36
  Speaker 3: the economy is doing great. Earnings earnings are strong, consumer
• 41:41
  Speaker 3: household balance sheets are strong, wages are still relatively you
• 41:47
  Speaker 3: know strong as well, and there's a there's a strong
• 41:51
  Speaker 3: kind of like very constructive view to putting your money
• 41:53
  Speaker 3: in the market today, even at these valuations. The other
• 41:57
  Speaker 3: side of that story is okay, but then are we
• 42:02
  Speaker 3: losing the independence of the fad? Are there geopolitical issues
• 42:07
  Speaker 3: and wars out there that can also you know, cause
• 42:09
  Speaker 3: massive disruptions in the global economy, policy issues you know,
• 42:16
  Speaker 3: and fiscal issues coming to the forefront that could just
• 42:18
  Speaker 3: be mistakes that happen. So at the same time, there's
• 42:22
  Speaker 3: so many things then that can go wrong. I always
• 42:26
  Speaker 3: say we're probably at an all time high of things
• 42:29
  Speaker 3: that can go wrong. Yet where you shit today should
• 42:33
  Speaker 3: feel pretty good in terms of you know, the economics
• 42:36
  Speaker 3: and the economy. And I think technology is the same thing.
• 42:39
  Speaker 3: It's like, wow, AI is going to be disruptive. What
• 42:44
  Speaker 3: we think I can do is literally changing every week,
• 42:46
  Speaker 3: every month, and again that in many ways is exciting.
• 42:50
  Speaker 3: In many ways, it's also extremely unsettling.
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: To say the very least. Since you brought up the
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: current state of the world profits for all time high,
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: but it seems like risk sort of all time highs.
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: I want to throw two of your own quotes back
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: at you and get your thoughts on it. In the
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: beginning of this year, you said risk assets are going higher.
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: What led you to that conclusion? And has the year
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: played out as you expected?
• 43:20
  Speaker 4: Clearly?
• 43:20
  Speaker 3: Look, I think and I think there was a little bit.
• 43:23
  Speaker 3: I think I was challenged a little bit on that comment.
• 43:25
  Speaker 3: And remember I said it right after Liberation Day, so
• 43:28
  Speaker 3: the markets were obviously falling off. There was a tremendous
• 43:32
  Speaker 3: amount of concern with the tariffs and what would come.
• 43:35
  Speaker 4: You know, I had two thoughts there.
• 43:38
  Speaker 3: One understanding that I thought the current administration that we
• 43:42
  Speaker 3: have was going to be about the carrot and the stick,
• 43:45
  Speaker 3: and we started out the year with the stick, but
• 43:47
  Speaker 3: you know what, the carrot was going to show up
• 43:48
  Speaker 3: at some point. And then too, this other view of
• 43:52
  Speaker 3: you know, most of us don't have a choice to
• 43:53
  Speaker 3: be risk off, right, the idea that, like, you know,
• 43:56
  Speaker 3: being risk off through these different cycles hasn't really paid off.
• 44:00
  Speaker 3: So the one thing you should do is like go
• 44:02
  Speaker 3: back and look at the fundamentals. But yes, if you're
• 44:05
  Speaker 3: saying I'm going to just take a correlation of one
• 44:07
  Speaker 3: or just take broad market exposure. It's more than again
• 44:11
  Speaker 3: the academic conversation being more of an urgency if you
• 44:14
  Speaker 3: think about the actual conversation around I'm structured for solutions
• 44:18
  Speaker 3: for outcomes in my portfolio, then why should you be
• 44:22
  Speaker 3: risk off?
• 44:23
  Speaker 4: You already planned for this.
• 44:26
  Speaker 3: I maybe planned to have part of my principle protected
• 44:28
  Speaker 3: and maybe plan to have certain amounts of yield or
• 44:31
  Speaker 3: uncorrelated assets in my portfolio. So my deput is again one,
• 44:36
  Speaker 3: the fundamentals are there to not say exit the market,
• 44:38
  Speaker 3: but two, this should not always be around should I
• 44:41
  Speaker 3: buy this stock or that stock, or should I go
• 44:43
  Speaker 3: bonds or equities.
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: Has to be broader.
• 44:45
  Speaker 4: It has to be.
• 44:46
  Speaker 3: It has to be broader because you know, we're not
• 44:48
  Speaker 3: a hedge fund, and a lot of what we do
• 44:50
  Speaker 3: is not about that.
• 44:51
  Speaker 4: It is about driving long term outcomes.
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: So another quote of yours that caught my attention was,
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: NOI is that all time highs? I totally agree, but
• 45:04
  Speaker 2: explain your point of view.
• 45:06
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and I'll explain it.
• 45:07
  Speaker 3: I'll explain it both in terms of kind of the
• 45:09
  Speaker 3: where we are in our markets and then also like
• 45:11
  Speaker 3: it's also like a personal philosophy.
• 45:15
  Speaker 4: One.
• 45:15
  Speaker 3: This is what I mean by things look very calm,
• 45:19
  Speaker 3: things look very constructive, Yet we can I think my
• 45:23
  Speaker 3: team at the time, and this was back in January,
• 45:26
  Speaker 3: I think there were like twenty six or thirty different
• 45:30
  Speaker 3: like press releases or things that happened that kind of
• 45:33
  Speaker 3: really jolted the markets in some way or cause concern.
• 45:37
  Speaker 3: So the list of the things going on, whether it's inflation,
• 45:41
  Speaker 3: whether it's political, you know, the FED policy.
• 45:46
  Speaker 4: Changes, wars, the list endless. It's endless.
• 45:50
  Speaker 3: So there's that I think is at an all time
• 45:52
  Speaker 3: high of the things that Okay, what's the list of
• 45:54
  Speaker 3: what can go wrong? But then you know the other
• 45:56
  Speaker 3: thing with noise, And I say this to my kids,
• 45:58
  Speaker 3: I try to I'm still trying to master this is
• 46:02
  Speaker 3: that in most cases, eighty percent of what you hear
• 46:05
  Speaker 3: is just.
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: Noise, right, and already in stock prices.
• 46:08
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's there. It's like twenty percent actually matters.
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 46:11
  Speaker 3: I said, to be a good investor, you have to
• 46:13
  Speaker 3: be good at knowing what you don't know. But I
• 46:14
  Speaker 3: also think you also have to be good at taking
• 46:16
  Speaker 3: emotion off the table. You could see a lot. Obviously
• 46:20
  Speaker 3: we're pretty divided country politically. I always say like, don't
• 46:23
  Speaker 3: bring that to your investing, right, So it's more like,
• 46:26
  Speaker 3: take the emotion out, don't let the noise suck you in,
• 46:31
  Speaker 3: go back, and it's about the fundamentals.
• 46:33
  Speaker 4: It's about what's in front of you. It's about your outcomes.
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: I love the concept of knowing what you don't know.
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: Let's address that. What are investors not talking about, not
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: thinking about? But should what topics, assets, geography, policy, data points, whatever,
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: What is not at the forefront of many investors' minds,
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: but maybe is getting overlooked.
• 46:59
  Speaker 4: You know.
• 47:00
  Speaker 3: Well, and again this is going to sound very simple,
• 47:02
  Speaker 3: and it's been talked about since the beginning of our markets.
• 47:07
  Speaker 3: You know, it's true diversification. And again it sounds simple,
• 47:12
  Speaker 3: but it's not because you know, the old diversification is
• 47:16
  Speaker 3: that seventy thirty, sixty forty stocks bonds. The markets are
• 47:21
  Speaker 3: a lot more complex and sophisticated. That idea of having
• 47:24
  Speaker 3: that conversation now around, Let's talk about what I'm trying
• 47:28
  Speaker 3: to accomplish. Not Hey, I think large caps are hot now,
• 47:32
  Speaker 3: so I'm going to put you in them. Hey, you know,
• 47:35
  Speaker 3: you see technology stocks. I think technology is going to
• 47:37
  Speaker 3: do really good. That to me is what's really being overlooked.
• 47:43
  Speaker 3: Is again where I know a lot of people sit
• 47:44
  Speaker 3: down with their advisors and they're getting that academic you know,
• 47:49
  Speaker 3: dissertation on you should be diversified.
• 47:51
  Speaker 4: This is why.
• 47:52
  Speaker 3: This is how, But often the conversation falls right back
• 47:56
  Speaker 3: to is it large caps, small caps?
• 47:57
  Speaker 4: Is it tech stocks? Is it banks? Is it financials?
• 48:00
  Speaker 3: Like that's not the right conversation, even if it alts
• 48:03
  Speaker 3: for public it's it's everything.
• 48:05
  Speaker 4: It's all of that, and it's using technology and solutions
• 48:08
  Speaker 4: and packages to create the right construct for individuals.
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: It makes a lot of sense to me. I only
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: have you for a couple of more minutes, So let's
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: jump to our speed round our favorite questions we ask
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: all our guests, starting with who were your mentors who
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: helped shape your career?
• 48:27
  Speaker 4: You know, I've had so many, and I'll tell you
• 48:30
  Speaker 4: you know, they started with family members. I've had professors.
• 48:34
  Speaker 3: I've had, you know, the dean of the business school
• 48:36
  Speaker 3: and then not in college I felt like was a
• 48:38
  Speaker 3: mentor to me. I have my previous bosses that I
• 48:43
  Speaker 3: still stay in touch with and try to have lunch
• 48:45
  Speaker 3: and dinner with. So I have many people that I
• 48:50
  Speaker 3: can that I can kind of think.
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: Huh, that's very nice. Let's talk about books. What are
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: some of your favorites? What are you reading right now?
• 48:58
  Speaker 4: You know there's I'm not a I'm not a fixing us,
• 49:00
  Speaker 4: so most of what I read is nonfixtioning.
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: I love all I'm the same way.
• 49:03
  Speaker 3: I love all the I love all the Michael Lewis's books.
• 49:07
  Speaker 3: Recently read The Boys in the Boat. So I just
• 49:10
  Speaker 3: love the story about people, and I love I love
• 49:13
  Speaker 3: reading about books that you know you see perseverance in
• 49:16
  Speaker 3: human beings. Right now, I'll tell you I'm not reading
• 49:19
  Speaker 3: anything right now. I'm getting ready to read something and
• 49:22
  Speaker 3: I'm wondering if it's going to stick. But I've been
• 49:24
  Speaker 3: hearing a lot about The Meditations by Marcus Aurelius. Oh sure,
• 49:28
  Speaker 3: And I made the comment around eighty percent of things
• 49:32
  Speaker 3: you hear as noise. My understanding is that book has
• 49:35
  Speaker 3: a lot about that in there, of like what you
• 49:37
  Speaker 3: should really spend your time thinking about. So I was,
• 49:41
  Speaker 3: I was that synopsis, and I've heard two people now
• 49:43
  Speaker 3: mention it. So I said, I'm getting ready to read that.
• 49:47
  Speaker 2: Let me bastardize that for you and say. What I
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: took from that was recognize what's in your control, and
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: that's what you focus on. What the FED is going
• 49:58
  Speaker 2: to do we can't control. Don't lose sleep over it.
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: Accept it. It's gonna be what it's going to be.
• 50:04
  Speaker 2: But focus on the things you can control you can change. Really,
• 50:08
  Speaker 2: it has absolutely stood the test of time. And if
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: you're a Michael Lewis fan, I'm gonna self promote his
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: most recent book that just came out, Who Is Government.
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: We did a live Masters in Business in April, and
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: I want to say the ratio of me speaking to
• 50:26
  Speaker 2: him was probably three percent to ninety seven percent. For
• 50:30
  Speaker 2: ninety minutes, he just regaled the audience with stories and
• 50:33
  Speaker 2: had people in stitches, absolutely hilarious stories about Billy Bean
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: and Brad Pitt. Tears down people's face.
• 50:41
  Speaker 4: I'm going to go listen to that. I'm going to listen. Yeah. Absolutely.
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: If you're a Michael Lewis fan, I think I've interviewed
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: him ten twelve times. That's my favorite interview. I heard
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: stories I never heard before he was his book.
• 50:55
  Speaker 4: His books ruined.
• 50:56
  Speaker 3: All the movies that have come out off of his books,
• 51:00
  Speaker 3: they none of them come close in my opinion to
• 51:02
  Speaker 3: the actual book.
• 51:03
  Speaker 2: So I agree with you. The one that's closest is
• 51:08
  Speaker 2: Moneyball is at least listen the Big Short. I love
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: the book. The movie wasn't bad. The blind Side the
• 51:15
  Speaker 2: movie wasn't bad, but Moneyball really captured the moment of.
• 51:20
  Speaker 4: I agree that money Ball is probably the closest you
• 51:23
  Speaker 4: got to the book.
• 51:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no doubt about that. What about streaming, what are
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: you watching on Netflix or Amazon Prime? Or what podcasts
• 51:31
  Speaker 2: are you listening to?
• 51:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, it's very similar to kind of the
• 51:35
  Speaker 3: whole nonfiction thing. I'm a big fan of documentaries on
• 51:39
  Speaker 3: on Netflix. So there's two things that I'll kind of
• 51:41
  Speaker 3: do on streaming. It's it's watching The Men Who Built America,
• 51:45
  Speaker 3: which is a great documentary. It just again it has
• 51:48
  Speaker 3: you know, the Jp Morgan's of the world, the Carnegie
• 51:52
  Speaker 3: of the World, Rockefellers, and Vanderbilts. But what it shows
• 51:56
  Speaker 3: you is the tremendous amount of risk that these individuals
• 52:00
  Speaker 3: took and what was a very different.
• 52:03
  Speaker 4: Time in America.
• 52:04
  Speaker 3: But I love I love the documentaries and then and
• 52:06
  Speaker 3: then shows What will Happen is I don't watch a
• 52:09
  Speaker 3: lot of TV. I will watch sports, but I'll hear
• 52:12
  Speaker 3: things like Breaking Bad. Everyone talked about it. I was like,
• 52:15
  Speaker 3: all of a sudden, you know, I'm watching it ten
• 52:16
  Speaker 3: fifteen years after the fact.
• 52:18
  Speaker 4: And then that led me to say, hey, there's this
• 52:20
  Speaker 4: show Better Call Saul.
• 52:21
  Speaker 3: So I just went through the whole, not just went
• 52:24
  Speaker 3: but you know, I've been going through the I went
• 52:26
  Speaker 3: through Breaking Bad and then like Better Call Saul. And
• 52:30
  Speaker 3: so the only way I watch shows now is well,
• 52:33
  Speaker 3: they came out five seven years ago, and now I'll
• 52:35
  Speaker 3: go in and be like, Okay, I'll dig in.
• 52:37
  Speaker 2: So I have two things for you. We saw Madmen
• 52:40
  Speaker 2: during the pandemic. I never saw a single episode when
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: I was on TV, like, Wow, this is amazing TV.
• 52:46
  Speaker 2: And if you're a documentary fan, the Billy Joel documentary,
• 52:51
  Speaker 2: I saw Joe. We're like three quarters the way through.
• 52:54
  Speaker 2: It's it's just amazing.
• 52:55
  Speaker 3: And I'm a big Billy Joel fan, And yeah, I
• 52:59
  Speaker 3: thought it was. And again it's to me, it's just
• 53:01
  Speaker 3: it's history and people, right. You just kind of just
• 53:04
  Speaker 3: love learning about people. And then especially for me, it's
• 53:08
  Speaker 3: I'm in awe of folk of people who could do
• 53:09
  Speaker 3: things I can't write, like, I'm in awe of a
• 53:12
  Speaker 3: billy Joel when you hear about his process and what
• 53:14
  Speaker 3: he does, and you're like, it's hard not to get inspired.
• 53:16
  Speaker 2: By absolute hundred percent. Our final two questions, what sort
• 53:20
  Speaker 2: of advice would you give to a recent college grad
• 53:24
  Speaker 2: interested in the career in investing?
• 53:27
  Speaker 4: You know the advice I give everybody coming out of school.
• 53:30
  Speaker 4: And you know, I think they're waiting to hear for
• 53:33
  Speaker 4: some kind of special nugget on how they're going to
• 53:35
  Speaker 4: get ahead doing models or what deals, And I'm like,
• 53:38
  Speaker 4: do do the easy things really well? Like I did
• 53:42
  Speaker 4: this intuitively not knowing how important it was, which was
• 53:46
  Speaker 4: I came into Wall Street. You know they're not going
• 53:48
  Speaker 4: to give I was fresh out of school. They weren't
• 53:49
  Speaker 4: going to give me a big client. They weren't give
• 53:51
  Speaker 4: me a big model. But you know what if someone
• 53:53
  Speaker 4: said I need copies, I ran and did copies. You
• 53:55
  Speaker 4: know I could do that that I can do, Hey, book,
• 53:58
  Speaker 4: book a restaurant for a client dinner. Hey, don't worry
• 54:01
  Speaker 4: about it. I got it.
• 54:03
  Speaker 3: So to me, it's like early life is never going
• 54:05
  Speaker 3: to be that easy in your career than when you're
• 54:07
  Speaker 3: first out of school. Don't come in day one thinking
• 54:10
  Speaker 3: about how do I get on, how do I start
• 54:13
  Speaker 3: traveling and meet clients and work the big deals. It's
• 54:15
  Speaker 3: like do the little things really really well? That is
• 54:19
  Speaker 3: how they're going to be able to judge you early on.
• 54:22
  Speaker 2: Good advice And our final question, what do you know
• 54:25
  Speaker 2: about the world of investing today? You wish you knew
• 54:29
  Speaker 2: thirty five or so years ago when you were first
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: starting out.
• 54:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it goes back to the when I
• 54:36
  Speaker 3: start I first started learning those lessons of don't pay
• 54:39
  Speaker 3: attention to the noise, pay attention to what really matters,
• 54:43
  Speaker 3: so you know earlier on. It's hard not to get
• 54:45
  Speaker 3: emotional about investing sometimes, it's a hard even not to
• 54:49
  Speaker 3: get completely kind of you know you and I watch
• 54:52
  Speaker 3: for this in RPMs, like pms can fall in love
• 54:55
  Speaker 3: sometimes even with companies, stocks and even management teams that
• 54:59
  Speaker 3: ability to now say hey, and all these cases be objective.
• 55:03
  Speaker 3: Tell remind yourself, be good at knowing what you don't know,
• 55:07
  Speaker 3: Take emotion off, focus on what really should matter, not
• 55:10
  Speaker 3: all the noise that's surrounding it.
• 55:12
  Speaker 2: So interesting, jose thank you for being so generous with
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: your time. We have been speaking with jose Manaiah. He's
• 55:19
  Speaker 2: global head of B and Y Investments and Wealth, managing
• 55:23
  Speaker 2: two point two trillion dollars. If you enjoy this conversation, well,
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: be sure and check out any of the five hundred
• 55:30
  Speaker 2: and fifty we've done over the past eleven years. You
• 55:34
  Speaker 2: can find those at Bloomberg iTunes, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever
• 55:40
  Speaker 2: you get your podcasts from. Be sure to check out
• 55:43
  Speaker 2: my new book How Not to Invest The ideas, numbers,
• 55:48
  Speaker 2: and behaviors that destroy wealth and how to avoid them
• 55:51
  Speaker 2: How Not to Invest at your favorite bookseller. I would
• 55:55
  Speaker 2: be remiss if I do not thank the crack team
• 55:57
  Speaker 2: that helps put these conversations together each week. And I
• 56:01
  Speaker 2: really mean this. Alexis Noriega and Anna Luke are my producers.
• 56:05
  Speaker 2: Sean Russo is my researcher. Sage Bauman is the head
• 56:10
  Speaker 2: of podcasts at Bloomberg. I'm Barry Retaults. You've been listening
• 56:14
  Speaker 2: to Masters in Business on Bloomberg Radio.