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Rugby Direct - Episode 172 · Rugby Direct

• 0:09
  Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from News Talks EDB. Follow
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: this and our Wide Ranger podcast now on iHeartRadio.
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: Straight down the Middle of Drum Dicky Scot try these.
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: Get inside the game from every angle. It's Rugby Direct
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: with Elliot Smith and Liam Napier, powered by News Talks EDB.
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: Welcome into Rugby Direct pound by Excess Solutions elevating you
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: and your business to a higher level. Elligott Smith the
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: News Talk Zibi rugby commentator with me as always Leam Napier,
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: rugby writer for The New Zealand Herald. Liam Welcome in
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: the French Chest series is done. You've just spent an
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: hour answering the listeners questions on zidherld dot co dot NZ's.
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: I guess there's probably good opportunity to ask what the
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: pumps is feeling about this series before we get into
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: our thoughts on it.
• 1:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah, great to be back from the Mighty tron. Elliott's
• 1:10
  Speaker 3: interesting to note a few questions didn't make it past
• 1:13
  Speaker 3: the monitors the moderators, so it's always a lowell. Yes,
• 1:19
  Speaker 3: there's some common themes I guess around a few questions
• 1:23
  Speaker 3: around Carrifi and his size for test rugby questions around
• 1:30
  Speaker 3: the depth of our first fives, and I guess some
• 1:33
  Speaker 3: concerns about Damian McKenzie's performance in that Third Test in Hamilton,
• 1:37
  Speaker 3: Questions about when Richie Mwonga, Shannon Frazelle might be home
• 1:42
  Speaker 3: when leicesterfying a nooko, whether he's going to be fast tracked,
• 1:46
  Speaker 3: some concerns about the size and general of the All
• 1:48
  Speaker 3: Blacks forward pack. So yeah, I guess a couple of
• 1:52
  Speaker 3: common themes here to potentially pick up on.
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: Absolutely well, let's get into that third Test. Still Blacks
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: win it on the night twenty nine to nineteen, take
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: the series three to nil. But the scoreline certainly doesn't
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: reflect the nature of the game. They were down ten
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: nil early, they were down nineteen ten on the verge
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: of halftime, and then get the French school less in
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: the second spell. They if you look at the stats,
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: absolutely dominated in terms of the amount of tackles they
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: asked the French to make. But the All Blacks huffed
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: and puffed and it took a long time to break
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: down that French house it did.
• 2:24
  Speaker 3: I guess there were some late changes again, the All
• 2:27
  Speaker 3: Blacks going into that match had to change their wingers
• 2:30
  Speaker 3: with Riquowhanney pulling out with his hamstring and then Luke
• 2:33
  Speaker 3: Jacobson what fifteen minutes before kickoff getting injured in a
• 2:38
  Speaker 3: mall in an ocuous incident and pulling up blame of
• 2:41
  Speaker 3: his squad, so they had to reshuffle their starting loose trio,
• 2:44
  Speaker 3: Christian Leo Weady coming on to the bench as well.
• 2:46
  Speaker 3: So maybe there's some disruption there, But it was very evident,
• 2:51
  Speaker 3: wasn't it that the All Blacks had made ten changes.
• 2:53
  Speaker 3: They were clunky and it just didn't gel for the
• 2:59
  Speaker 3: bulk of that match though, down ten nil, they took
• 3:02
  Speaker 3: the lead in the for the first time in the
• 3:04
  Speaker 3: fifty second minute, so they really were chasing that game
• 3:07
  Speaker 3: from the outset.
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: They were, and they'll put under a lot of pressure
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: by the French and heading into that game, it could
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: have gone two ways. You know, speculated that maybe the
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: French had one foot on the plane already. Well, it
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: certainly didn't appear like that. There was a lot of
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: chatter out of the French camp and out of the
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: French journalists that we've spoken to that this was the
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: best possible team of the people on the ground that
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: they could select for this game, and look, they turned
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: up for most of that game and put the All
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: Blacks under pressure. I thought their line speed was really impressive.
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: They defended really really well, especially in the first half,
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: made the most of All Blacks areas us keep that
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: scoreboard ticking over, and the All Blacks just struggled to
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: really get a foothold into that game until nine and
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: half time, probably when Antone and Brown scored that try.
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: Then Will Jordan's tribe was a little bit opportunistic, came
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: against the run of play, but it took a while
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: for the All Blacks to get it as a foothold
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: in that game it did.
• 3:58
  Speaker 3: It was quite reminiscent of the First Test, and that
• 4:01
  Speaker 3: speaks to your point about France bringing back the best
• 4:04
  Speaker 3: available talent. You know, we love left most of the
• 4:08
  Speaker 3: best tell on at home, but they brought back Galfi Coup,
• 4:11
  Speaker 3: the number eights and the starting tight hair prop, so
• 4:16
  Speaker 3: the most experienced figures on tour. And defensively they really
• 4:19
  Speaker 3: did put pressure on the All Blacks. They troubled their
• 4:22
  Speaker 3: breakdown again and the All Blacks just really struggled to
• 4:28
  Speaker 3: get going. They didn't have that four dominance that they
• 4:31
  Speaker 3: enjoyed and Wellington. The kicking game was a bit off,
• 4:36
  Speaker 3: a lot of back line moves, the ball going to
• 4:38
  Speaker 3: the ground, not finding the right man, some areas they
• 4:41
  Speaker 3: got away with a blatant forward pass and the lead
• 4:43
  Speaker 3: up to Anton Leina Brown's try. So look, you've got
• 4:48
  Speaker 3: to give the All Black some credit for not getting
• 4:52
  Speaker 3: overly frustrated, for finding the character and resolved to come
• 4:55
  Speaker 3: back and win that match, not panicking. But this did
• 4:59
  Speaker 3: feel like the All Blacks be against France B and
• 5:02
  Speaker 3: the quality of the match reflected that.
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think we're seeing a drop off now
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: in two of the All Blacks first choice players in
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: some positions to their understudies and beyond. I speak of hooker,
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: I speak of half back, and to be honest, I
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: could speak of first five now between Boden Barre and
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: Damian McKenzie. Yes, mackenzie had a great game against Ireland
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: last year, but he had so many tests last year
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: where he failed to take grasp of the game and
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: again we saw that on Saturday night. So at hooker,
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: at half back and at ten. I think the drop
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: off from the All Blacks first choice players and Cody
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: Taylor in cam roy Garden Bowden Barrett to the next
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: players coming through, I think is now significant and I
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: think it's a worry. They're trying to build depth, and
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: they've got depth in terms of players, but I just
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: think Samasoni Takiyaha is now a bench option only. I
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: think starting him. There's been a couple of test matches
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: even before his a long injury love and back in
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: twenty three where it felt like maybe he had gone
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: backward in terms of his starting role, and now feels
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: like maybe bench is his best spot. When you albout
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: in to the starting team, I'm not sure we're getting
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: the best out of him. You know, missed the first
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: line out throw. Just didn't think he quite had the
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: best of games. Of course, is Rasama I thought had
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: a tricky night at the offers, didn't quite get the
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: game going on. I mentioned McKenzie as well, So what
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: do you make of that. I think there's a big,
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: big gap sort of developing in those positions, which is
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: a worry for the all blacks.
• 6:24
  Speaker 3: There is and I agree. I guess the one kevet
• 6:27
  Speaker 3: I'd make is I feel for some players in that
• 6:34
  Speaker 3: they get one opportunity every now and then, and it's
• 6:37
  Speaker 3: the nature of the beast of Test rugby. Ultimately, you
• 6:39
  Speaker 3: want to be playing your best team all the time,
• 6:41
  Speaker 3: developing cohesion and combinations. And there was an argument that,
• 6:46
  Speaker 3: you know, while I support fully support the All Blacks
• 6:49
  Speaker 3: making these changes and giving them opportunities, a lot of
• 6:52
  Speaker 3: people would argue they just should play their best team
• 6:54
  Speaker 3: all the time because then you develop confidence, momentum, rhythm.
• 7:00
  Speaker 3: So I think it is really difficult to come in
• 7:02
  Speaker 3: when there's ten starting changes and look good immediately. I
• 7:06
  Speaker 3: expected that to be offset somewhere because of the established
• 7:11
  Speaker 3: combinations with the Chiefs. You know, you look at Ratimo
• 7:13
  Speaker 3: McKenzie to Pia and Leonnard Brown. There were a number
• 7:18
  Speaker 3: of Chiefs players in that team and I thought that
• 7:20
  Speaker 3: might help, but it didn't really. And to your point
• 7:24
  Speaker 3: about the drop off, it is significant Cody Taylor. We
• 7:28
  Speaker 3: only really appreciate just how important he is to that
• 7:32
  Speaker 3: team when he's not there. And Brody McAllister. You mentioned Takeaho,
• 7:37
  Speaker 3: and I agree, he hasn't come back the same player
• 7:39
  Speaker 3: from injury. And we saw that the Chiefs were the
• 7:42
  Speaker 3: Chiefs favoring Brody McAllister for much of the start of
• 7:46
  Speaker 3: this year in a starting capacity. Brodie McAllister on Test debut.
• 7:50
  Speaker 3: Maybe he was a bit overawed. He missed his first
• 7:53
  Speaker 3: three lineouts, scores that late try. It's a nice story
• 7:57
  Speaker 3: for him. But the depth, the established depth that hooker
• 8:01
  Speaker 3: is a concern. I suffer. Ol Moore is yet to
• 8:04
  Speaker 3: come back from his hamstring injury and he did perform
• 8:07
  Speaker 3: really well for All Blacks last year, not so well
• 8:10
  Speaker 3: for the Hurricanes. It didn't really kick on. I think
• 8:13
  Speaker 3: he was quite battered after last year from what I understand,
• 8:16
  Speaker 3: and Cam Roygard's yeah, there's no one within QUI of
• 8:22
  Speaker 3: in New Zealand rugby at the moment and I think
• 8:24
  Speaker 3: that speaks to the level that he's playing at his boots,
• 8:28
  Speaker 3: his sniping and Boden Barrett actually mentioned it's postmatch in
• 8:32
  Speaker 3: Wellington that he and Barrett's word to come remember exactly
• 8:38
  Speaker 3: what he said, but he said there's shades of DuPont
• 8:40
  Speaker 3: and his influence on the game. And you know that's
• 8:43
  Speaker 3: not me or you saying it, that's Boden Barrett. And
• 8:46
  Speaker 3: to be fair to Royguard, he upstaged DuPont when they
• 8:49
  Speaker 3: played France in November last year. So courtiz Rasma, there
• 8:53
  Speaker 3: is some real concerns. I think developing about whether he
• 8:56
  Speaker 3: is the number two because he was quite erratic, he
• 9:00
  Speaker 3: wasn't helped by the breakdown being a mess. Noah Hotham
• 9:03
  Speaker 3: came on and actually had a notable impact, but now
• 9:07
  Speaker 3: he's got a high call Sprain, So I totally agree.
• 9:10
  Speaker 3: I think hooker and half back the drop offs there
• 9:12
  Speaker 3: are significant. If Cody Taylor or cam Roy Guard were
• 9:15
  Speaker 3: to go down, there'd be big concerns.
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, I think that is a worry. So yeah, you're right,
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: and you're right that they have to develop the depth
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: and give these players opportunities. But we are learning a
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: little bit more about these players and learning that maybe
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: you know, they aren't you know, within touching distance of
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: those starters, and that's a worry for the All Blacks
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: in this you know four four four depth program that
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: Scott Robinson's running. Just explain that for deep in each
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: position over the next four years, so going back a
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: year to win a fourth Rugby World Cup for the
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: All Blacks.
• 9:51
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's important to put some context around
• 9:53
  Speaker 3: that because four for four people don't really just three
• 9:57
  Speaker 3: numbers of them, know what that is just just one
• 9:59
  Speaker 3: caveat to that players we touched on players who maybe
• 10:03
  Speaker 3: didn't make the step up some a Penny Female for
• 10:06
  Speaker 3: me was one guy who really did, and he been
• 10:08
  Speaker 3: waiting all series for that opportunity, and I think he
• 10:11
  Speaker 3: really took it. He was highly involved, a ball in hand,
• 10:14
  Speaker 3: steaming in from distance, making meters and yeah, highly involved.
• 10:19
  Speaker 3: I thought he was a real physically dominant performance that
• 10:23
  Speaker 3: the All Blacks have been waiting for from him, and
• 10:26
  Speaker 3: no real major discipline issues either, which has been a
• 10:29
  Speaker 3: real knock on his game. So I think the All
• 10:34
  Speaker 3: Blacks will likely go back to Tupouvai. But I really
• 10:37
  Speaker 3: liked what we saw from some of Penny Fino and
• 10:39
  Speaker 3: that six jersey, and for me, I think that jersey
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: is still his to grab.
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: Contestable. Absolutely, You're right, though I think we saw not
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: a lot off the bench from him in the previous
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: two weeks. He got a starting role and he was
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: one of those players that did take that opportunity. If
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: we look at the back line, we've touched on nine
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: and ten a bit, but midfield Quintepaire and Antonin Lenet
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: Brown thought len It Brown was probably better on the
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: first half than the second to Pire, I thought tried hard,
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: but struggled to get going and couldn't quite put his
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: mark on their game. So you know, I think that
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: third thing jersey for the All Blacks remains open or
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: remains a question mark as we head into the Rugby Championship.
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: Billy prop Dad two cracks it. I would have given
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: Billy Proper with third got it on the weekend and
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: given him just consistency in that jersey. They didn't, and
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: now you know there's a question mark. I suppose we
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: hit into Rugby Championship over who the All Blacks starting
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: center is.
• 11:34
  Speaker 3: I think it is Billy Proctor. It would be a
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: backward step for me to go back to Rico, but
• 11:41
  Speaker 3: I agree it is contestable, and I think about Quinti Pier.
• 11:46
  Speaker 3: Unfortunately for him that the Jordi Barrett almost not single
• 11:51
  Speaker 3: handedly won the All Black sat match, but wow, what
• 11:53
  Speaker 3: a performance off the bench. He had the try saving
• 11:55
  Speaker 3: tackle which could have really put the heat on the
• 12:00
  Speaker 3: last closing stages of that match, and then he busts
• 12:04
  Speaker 3: through the line, fends off the French replacement and sends
• 12:07
  Speaker 3: Brodie McCall next to the sticks. Artie Savill also had
• 12:10
  Speaker 3: a massive turnover on his own line after a McAllister overthrows,
• 12:14
  Speaker 3: so some really big plays there. But again the drop
• 12:19
  Speaker 3: off from Jordi Barrett and the impact that he made
• 12:21
  Speaker 3: coming on to compet to to Pie sort of speaks
• 12:24
  Speaker 3: to the difference there, doesn't it.
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: It does, and that's a concern again for the All Blacks,
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: one player that I do want to touch on before
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: we get into more series overall stuff. Rubin Love mix
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: night of the office for him. What he did well,
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: I thought he did very well. What he didn't do well,
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: he didn't do well. Kicking game was a bit mixed.
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: The drop goal out of nowhere was a bit odd.
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: But I do enjoy what he brings to test match level.
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: I like there's a spark there, that an X factor
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: that not all players have, and I get the sense
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: he is going to master test rugby at some point.
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: But that was certainly perhaps a mixed night of the
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: office for Ruben Love.
• 13:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree. I think there was one instance in
• 13:06
  Speaker 3: particular where he I think he got fired the ball
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: possibly from McKenzie in the backfield and he had players
• 13:12
  Speaker 3: outside him and he put in a kick that was
• 13:15
  Speaker 3: a wee bit aimless. So I think it's just picking
• 13:18
  Speaker 3: and choosing your moments a little bit more rather than
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: having a pre ordained idea about what you're going to do.
• 13:23
  Speaker 3: But he is a very self assured twenty four year olds.
• 13:29
  Speaker 3: Not he's not a kid's but a man, but he
• 13:33
  Speaker 3: is a kid. In terms of Test rugby. That was
• 13:35
  Speaker 3: his second Test appearance. He'd only played ten minutes I
• 13:38
  Speaker 3: think it was fifteen maybe off the bench against Japan
• 13:41
  Speaker 3: on the wing. Scores two tries, so to have his
• 13:45
  Speaker 3: first appearance first starts at home, I agree. I think
• 13:49
  Speaker 3: he is going to develop into a real Test prospect
• 13:53
  Speaker 3: because he does have all that range of skill game understanding.
• 13:58
  Speaker 3: He's a very diligent professional. We've heard him talk about
• 14:01
  Speaker 3: wanting to be the best player in the world. How
• 14:04
  Speaker 3: many twenty four year old kids come out and say that.
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. And what he did in the injury Loffy
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: had around a breathing coach and mindfulness and all that
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: sort of thing that he's approached. He clearly wants to
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: be better and interesting to see what opportunities come his
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: way in the Rugby Championship.
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: Just quickly off the top of my head, there was
• 14:22
  Speaker 3: one question from the online thing before, someone querying whether
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: Jordie Barrett could be the All Blacks answer a center.
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: Okay, well what's the answer at second five? If you
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: move from to center.
• 14:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's.
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: Solving one problem in creating another.
• 14:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I don't think he's played a lot of center,
• 14:41
  Speaker 3: but he has played for the All Blacks wing fallback
• 14:44
  Speaker 3: first five seconds, so he probably could pull it off.
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: I don't think that's the answer, but I just sort of.
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean to pier, maybe could play twelve when
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: you have Barrit at thirteen. I'm not sure I would
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: like that combination necessarily, but I do think that that
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: thirteen role is still still up for grabs.
• 15:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah. And I think in the midfield of articulate, it's
• 15:05
  Speaker 3: about combinations and complimentary combinations. You know, you think back
• 15:09
  Speaker 3: in time non Nolan Smith, just the Yin and the yang,
• 15:13
  Speaker 3: you know, the big destructive second five who developed a
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: brilliant distribution game over time and kicking game even and
• 15:22
  Speaker 3: Smith the real glue from a defensive perspective, from setting
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: up as outsides. He was never had top ends pace
• 15:32
  Speaker 3: or the most brilliant player. But that combination is what
• 15:36
  Speaker 3: the All Blacks are searching for. And I think with
• 15:39
  Speaker 3: Jordi and Proctor. That's probably the closest they're going to get.
• 15:43
  Speaker 3: Billy probably has some question marks about his size and physicality,
• 15:47
  Speaker 3: but he does compliment Jordi better than Rico indeed.
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: Right, let's move on to what we learned from the
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: series from an All Blacks perspective. Well, do you learn
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: first and foremost that don't underest them at a French
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: second string team? Would that be listened?
• 16:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's fair.
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: Put some rest on the top fourteen name.
• 16:10
  Speaker 3: I think we don't see a lot of the top
• 16:14
  Speaker 3: fourteen and that's the same for New Zealand punters. So
• 16:19
  Speaker 3: how many players could you have named in those French
• 16:22
  Speaker 3: starting teams prior to the series? Very very few, a
• 16:25
  Speaker 3: handful And this is clearly depth that they've built over
• 16:29
  Speaker 3: a few seasons. Now, that's been a strong competition for
• 16:31
  Speaker 3: a number of years, but you look back and go
• 16:34
  Speaker 3: there's been other locations with the French have sent out
• 16:36
  Speaker 3: a mixed team to New Zealand in terms of experience,
• 16:39
  Speaker 3: and the All Blacks have belted them. Now, perhaps there's
• 16:43
  Speaker 3: a bit of an All Black strop off there as well,
• 16:45
  Speaker 3: but the depth of the French have built in this
• 16:47
  Speaker 3: competition now is very very good, and you know, the
• 16:51
  Speaker 3: gap between top positions and second string may not be
• 16:54
  Speaker 3: as big as it once was, so I think that's
• 16:56
  Speaker 3: one lesson. Yea. And they went out to Argentina last year,
• 16:59
  Speaker 3: same approach, went one on one and I'm not sure
• 17:03
  Speaker 3: if this year before, but certainly in recent times they
• 17:05
  Speaker 3: went out to Australia and very nearly anyone one this
• 17:08
  Speaker 3: probably should have won that series there with a similar
• 17:11
  Speaker 3: type squad. So yeah, they do have depth and talents.
• 17:16
  Speaker 3: But look, let me ask you this, would the All
• 17:20
  Speaker 3: Blacks have beaten one of the series against the first
• 17:24
  Speaker 3: choice French team?
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: Hard to know? Hard to know? I mean they pushed
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: them to within one point last year in Paris, similar
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: group of players, so probably would have been to one
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: one way, well the other, don't know which way you.
• 17:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it would have been on a real
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: knife edge because your Blacks are scratchy to start the
• 17:48
  Speaker 3: year and they certainly wouldn't have been able to make
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: ten changes, ten starting changes. It would have been balls
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: to the wall best team and down to the whyah match.
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: I think two one either way. All right, let's talk
• 18:01
  Speaker 3: about the All Blacks. One we learned from the series.
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: Who is your best player over the course of the
• 18:06
  Speaker 3: three matches, Probably Will Jordan. I think it just doesn't
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: matter where he plays, full back wing, he's everywhere. And
• 18:17
  Speaker 3: what's he scored forty two and forty four. I think
• 18:19
  Speaker 3: that's right something like that. Just an absolutely phenomenal strike
• 18:23
  Speaker 3: rate just keeps coming, doesn't he And it's not just
• 18:26
  Speaker 3: his finishing ability, it's the way he injection himself into
• 18:30
  Speaker 3: the line. I think he has influenced his voice. Yeah,
• 18:35
  Speaker 3: he sets the bar Ardie Severe was very good. I
• 18:39
  Speaker 3: don't think he was great in Hamilton. There was that
• 18:44
  Speaker 3: advised I think left foot ship kick off the line
• 18:48
  Speaker 3: out that he would like to have again and got
• 18:50
  Speaker 3: stripped of the ball on another occasion. But he was
• 18:54
  Speaker 3: outstanding in Wellington in particular, and Fabian Holland shout out
• 18:58
  Speaker 3: to a test Rockie to come in and play three
• 19:02
  Speaker 3: consecutive eighty minute performances.
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I have Will Jordan and I had Cam roy
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: Guard and came Royguard only played two matches, but I
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: thought because we touched on earlier as influence in both
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: of those victories was pretty key. Biggest mover in the
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: series from an All Blacks perspective.
• 19:18
  Speaker 3: Probably Fabian Holland comes in, yeah, having not played him,
• 19:23
  Speaker 3: and it's hard to think of a rookie Wallace to
• 19:25
  Speaker 3: tc similar sort of scenario.
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: Not longer for Walls didn't it because he only got
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: the option off the bench and then didn't play The
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: Argentina test came in for Savrigal didn't play off in
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: the starting sock year.
• 19:35
  Speaker 3: That's right. But once he was in, he was in,
• 19:38
  Speaker 3: he was and he became the All Blacks Player of
• 19:39
  Speaker 3: the Year. The only thing I'd say about Fabian is
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: he's this massive unit, right and exceptional the line out
• 19:46
  Speaker 3: and huge engine to play three eighty minute performances. I
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: think he can still get more from his frame physicality
• 19:54
  Speaker 3: to really there's occasions he sort of concedes when he's
• 19:59
  Speaker 3: got the ball, and I'd like to see him bust
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: through the line or just get a wee bit more
• 20:05
  Speaker 3: from his frame, particularly looking ahead to teams like the
• 20:08
  Speaker 3: bo But yeah, are the big movers. I guess you could.
• 20:14
  Speaker 3: You can make a case for Tupu Vai in terms
• 20:16
  Speaker 3: of his switch. Well, there were there were six rookies,
• 20:22
  Speaker 3: right who anyone in particular other than Holland that really
• 20:27
  Speaker 3: stood out of that.
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: Group Holland is the obvious one, given he played three
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: eighty minute performances since making his debut. I thought Kittyfi
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: grew in each performance that he had minutes off the bench,
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: and Dunedin Wellington then starting. Still have concerns I guess
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: around his size at Test match level, but you can't
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: doubt the size of his heart and his hunger to
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: be better and and be a Test player. I still
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: think this question marks over what role he has for
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: the All Blacks over the course of the rest of
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: the season. But other than that, you know, Tavatavanawai had
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: a couple of cameos off the bench. Hard to judge
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: him too much, but didn't make too much of an
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: influence on the Test game. McAllister mixed as well. So
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: Leo Willie again jury out similar to Karefi. So I'd
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: go Holland and then yeah, question marks over the rest.
• 21:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know if the other ones. The other
• 21:24
  Speaker 3: one was Oli Norris. I thought he was good without
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: being great, and I actually thought George Bauer I think
• 21:32
  Speaker 3: he was penalized in his first scrum but did make
• 21:34
  Speaker 3: a notable impact when he came on off the bench
• 21:36
  Speaker 3: in Hamilton so Oli Norris. Perhaps another level will go
• 21:41
  Speaker 3: to from a scrummaging perspective, and I agree otherwise, I
• 21:44
  Speaker 3: don't know if we It is hard, isn't it, Because
• 21:47
  Speaker 3: you hear all the time about your Blacks environment being overwhelming.
• 21:51
  Speaker 3: They've got to come in and take in all this information.
• 21:54
  Speaker 3: Their flowing phone's blowing up. It's very emotional time you
• 21:57
  Speaker 3: realize a dream is a lot to absorb. Some players
• 22:01
  Speaker 3: handle that better than others. And yeah, Tavannaha, I think
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: it's an interesting scenari when we can't the head and
• 22:08
  Speaker 3: we wore in terms of the Rugby Championships squad, but
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: six midfielders did feel like a lot his debut and
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: Wellington had two cracks at the cherry. I think what
• 22:19
  Speaker 3: we saw overall when you look at him and Karefi
• 22:23
  Speaker 3: as a step up, isn't it? It is?
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: For Tavata, I felt like he was kind of from
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: a standing start on a number of occasions, and I
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: don't think that's where he's best utilized, just in terms
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: of the all Blacks attacking shape and how they're playing
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: this season. Is that seen from the Highlanders when he
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: comes from a little bit deeper on attack, then he
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: can have a real influence when players stand a little
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: deep at the all black stand quite tight at the moment.
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: I don't think that necessarily suits him. We didn't see
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: a lot of line breaks from Tavatava Nahai over the
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: course of the time that he had on the park.
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: Certainly wasn't making those defensive turnovers that he had. Kifi
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: similarly mentioned this around the breakdown when he spoke after
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: the game on Saturday night and the medium zone around
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: the breakdown and how different it is at Test level.
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: You know how many poaches did it get in Super
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: rugby this year. It's just so much harder. Your timing's
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: got to be perfect, you've got to be right on
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: that ball, and sort on Super rugby there was a
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: lot of reward for players on the ball from the opposition.
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: Don't get that as much in Test rugby at the moment.
• 23:27
  Speaker 3: No, that's right, just on that four four four scenarios
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: worth noting. I think sixteen rookies under Scott Robertson since
• 23:35
  Speaker 3: he took over last year, and you're always going to
• 23:38
  Speaker 3: get that to a degree post World Cup cycle when
• 23:41
  Speaker 3: you have a lot of veterans moving on. But I
• 23:44
  Speaker 3: think ten last year six this year, that's going to
• 23:49
  Speaker 3: decrease and it's going to carry on that theme as
• 23:54
  Speaker 3: you get closer to the World Cup. Sixteen is quite
• 23:57
  Speaker 3: a lot. I think some have taken their chances, some haven't,
• 24:00
  Speaker 3: But there's a clear plan there isn't there to develop
• 24:05
  Speaker 3: that debt, to bring through new talents to build for
• 24:08
  Speaker 3: deep So you can go to those players and they
• 24:10
  Speaker 3: have had that experience at test rugby, they're not going
• 24:13
  Speaker 3: to be having their first weeks coming into a major
• 24:17
  Speaker 3: majors test match.
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I think that's probably an area where the All
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: Blacks didn't quite develop in the last World Cup cycle.
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: They can blame COVID or whatever it might be around
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: that and some of the opportunities they didn't have, but
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: you they probably didn't quite get their bench right at
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: times during that last cycle and some of that depth. Hopefully,
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: you know, some of these moves of the next couple
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: of years can confix that.
• 24:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and probably missed a bit of a trick last year.
• 24:42
  Speaker 3: While there's ten rookies, they definitely missed opportunities such as
• 24:46
  Speaker 3: the Italy game to bring through players to give them
• 24:48
  Speaker 3: that exposure. So I'm not going to sit here and
• 24:51
  Speaker 3: knock what they did in Hamilton. While the performance wasn't there,
• 24:53
  Speaker 3: that was the right game to try and promote fringe
• 24:57
  Speaker 3: prospects and give them that exposure.
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think Robertson said pretty much that they
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: should have done that last year. Bit of a mere
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: culpa that they didn't quite get that right in the
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: Italy Week last year and they had some bad bodies
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: by the end of it. Give us a grade from
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: the series before we taught the Rugby Championship out of team.
• 25:15
  Speaker 3: I'm going to go six because I think the All
• 25:18
  Speaker 3: Black's only got their performance to the expected standard once
• 25:22
  Speaker 3: one from three and it's that context of being a
• 25:27
  Speaker 3: second string French team. Yes, they have talent and depth,
• 25:31
  Speaker 3: but I think given the nature of the opposition while
• 25:34
  Speaker 3: the All Blacks are starting the year, I expected more
• 25:37
  Speaker 3: and the performance in Wellington showed the level that they
• 25:41
  Speaker 3: can get to and they only got there once.
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: I'm going to go seven. Slightly friendly marketing the standards
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: Rugby Championship squad. It is going to be named the
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: fourth of August, which is a Monday. We've heard that
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: a lot of the players, or at least some of
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: the players are going to play a bit of NPC
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: that opening round which preceeds the All Black squad naming,
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: So a good opportunity for some players there to get
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: some minutes under their belt, maybe make some returns from injuries.
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: Thirty six Strong Square be named for the Rugby Championship. Now,
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: there's been a few commings and goings in terms of
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: injuries into that all back squad over the course of
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: the last three weeks, with players injured and moving in
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: and out. But where do you see the Rugby Championship
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: squad going to and what are the fixes that needed
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: by Scott Robinson and co.
• 26:29
  Speaker 3: It's very much injury to excuse me, injury dependent, isn't it?
• 26:35
  Speaker 3: If we run through them. Boden Barrett fractured to the
• 26:39
  Speaker 3: same hand that he did for the Blues and Super
• 26:41
  Speaker 3: Rugby that sidelined him for a month. So all expectations
• 26:45
  Speaker 3: are he will be on the plane to Argentina and
• 26:48
  Speaker 3: should be available for that first test. That's why they
• 26:50
  Speaker 3: pulled on from the bench. In Hamilton, people were not
• 26:54
  Speaker 3: so sure about Mighty Williams Wallace A teas sounds like
• 26:58
  Speaker 3: he's on track, but don't know when he'll be in
• 27:01
  Speaker 3: that Rugby Championship squad when he's available. Not too sure,
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: same with us are for armor. Peter Luckey is coming
• 27:07
  Speaker 3: back from injury. Caleb Clark sideline for up to two
• 27:11
  Speaker 3: months waiting one updates from Noah Hotham and Tyro Lomax.
• 27:18
  Speaker 3: Lomax needs an X ray on his thumb, so some
• 27:23
  Speaker 3: big ins and outs there. Scott Barrett's coming back will
• 27:26
  Speaker 3: be available for Argentina. What we do know is the
• 27:28
  Speaker 3: Eel Blacks will need at least another winger because Caleb
• 27:32
  Speaker 3: Clark won't be there and they were extremely light and
• 27:35
  Speaker 3: found wanting exposed with their squad selection I think, and
• 27:39
  Speaker 3: the nature of it by going to light in the wingers,
• 27:42
  Speaker 3: too light with the loose forwards and carrying too many midfielders.
• 27:46
  Speaker 3: So you're looking at guys like Ammonia and Nadawa potentially
• 27:51
  Speaker 3: coming into that squad. But the All Blacks didn't have
• 27:53
  Speaker 3: a lot of faith in him, did They only really
• 27:55
  Speaker 3: played him when they had to, and Wellington then went
• 27:58
  Speaker 3: away from him. So do they look outside the squad
• 28:02
  Speaker 3: at a Leroy Carter or a Schaffee Harckey perhaps yep,
• 28:06
  Speaker 3: And then I think you Luke Jacobson is another one.
• 28:11
  Speaker 3: You wouldn't think it's a major long term injury, but
• 28:13
  Speaker 3: I think you need additional loose forwards and outside backs.
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: Yep. Simon Parker is a question mark for me if
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: he's fit now. He was out through injury, wasn't considered
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: through injury. He's the kind of body that we talked
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: about a bit earlier on that the All Blacks may
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: be lacking size, or at least that's what some of
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: the fans on your herol Q and A was sugescing size.
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: I agree, and Simon Parker is that bigger body that
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: maybe the All Blacks do need in their pack or
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: is worthy of having a look at for the Rugby Championship.
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: Ethan Blackett it could be another one that comes back
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: in maybe, although they moved away from him a little bit.
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: Peter Lukeye if he's fit, so there's a few interesting
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: questions there. If No Hotham isn't available, who is jumping
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: on the plane as the third half pack we touched on.
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: I guess depth at first five and hooker and wing
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: is a real touch point. But that's another one, isn't it.
• 29:12
  Speaker 3: You're looking you're reaching towards guys like from La Christy
• 29:16
  Speaker 3: probably because unless you're going to promote Kyle Preston, who
• 29:24
  Speaker 3: does bring a point of difference and that he kicks
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: off both feet and played very well when he did
• 29:30
  Speaker 3: play for the Crusaders this year. But I just feel
• 29:33
  Speaker 3: like the All Blacks are probably reluctant to bring in
• 29:36
  Speaker 3: another rookie at half back, and they will probably like
• 29:39
  Speaker 3: the idea like they did last year, of having a
• 29:42
  Speaker 3: more experienced type figure. That's why they selected t. J.
• 29:46
  Speaker 3: Petnara from La Christy has been there. I would go Preston,
• 29:51
  Speaker 3: but I think they will lean towards a Christie type character.
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: They kind of know what they're getting from Christy, and
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: if you're talking about this four four four concept, then
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: to me, developing another player that could be there in
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: twenty seven is probably the more logical option for me.
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: I get why they would go back to Christy, but
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: I'll be looking similar to you at Kyle Preston or
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: potentially told for Funachi.
• 30:17
  Speaker 3: Was another one, yeah, of all the players in that
• 30:21
  Speaker 3: ends that game, I thought he actually had quite a
• 30:23
  Speaker 3: lively impact and he brings a point of difference of
• 30:25
  Speaker 3: his sniping is passing around the fringes. But he just
• 30:28
  Speaker 3: hasn't been on the radar at all under Robertson, and
• 30:30
  Speaker 3: he hasn't kicked on from where he was three years ago.
• 30:33
  Speaker 3: I mean he's eligible for Tonga later this year. That's
• 30:37
  Speaker 3: how long his gap between international appearance has been. It
• 30:39
  Speaker 3: felt luck he was really coming up in that twenty
• 30:42
  Speaker 3: two season and his plateau big time. And whether they
• 30:47
  Speaker 3: go back to the world there is an interesting question,
• 30:49
  Speaker 3: as you say, Bigg's port of a difference, but I'm
• 30:51
  Speaker 3: not sure whether that's what the All Blacks are after
• 30:54
  Speaker 3: Les defining and Looki's another one. He's back home. He
• 30:57
  Speaker 3: will play for Tasman in the NPC, and there was
• 31:01
  Speaker 3: a story from Paul Cully in the Post a few
• 31:04
  Speaker 3: weeks maybe even a month back, that suggested that he
• 31:07
  Speaker 3: will not actually be available or selected until the Northern Tour,
• 31:12
  Speaker 3: So that kind of makes sense and that he I
• 31:15
  Speaker 3: do like players having to come back and play in
• 31:18
  Speaker 3: New Zealand rather than walk straight back into the All
• 31:20
  Speaker 3: Black team. But you do wonder if it was a
• 31:23
  Speaker 3: Richie Mulong or whether he'd be made to do that.
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: I suspect fining a look who probably wan Look. We
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: talked about him and some of the question marks at center.
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: He's played a lot of center for Toulon in the
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: last couple of years. Maybe he is a long too
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: answer at center, but the All Black also have problems
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: on the wings at the moment, so I mean he
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: can play multiple positions. That's one of the very, very
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: good things about him. So it wouldn't surprise me if
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: he's back and soon that rather than later, especially with
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: the injuries to Caleb Clark, they could massage it a
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: little bit. Go oh, you played, you won two games
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: of Tasman, come back in.
• 31:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I think if they got another injury, it would
• 31:57
  Speaker 3: not be surprised to see him fast checked. For me,
• 32:01
  Speaker 3: I don't know if he is a long term answer
• 32:02
  Speaker 3: at center, while he did play a lot there for Toulon,
• 32:05
  Speaker 3: because as I mentioned before, that just that complimentary combination
• 32:09
  Speaker 3: that you ideally like in the midfield. And I don't
• 32:11
  Speaker 3: know if Leicester is the guy that will be making
• 32:14
  Speaker 3: those outsides look good putting them away. But what an
• 32:18
  Speaker 3: asset potentially to have on the bench to bring on
• 32:20
  Speaker 3: late like he's he's a similar prototype to a degree
• 32:27
  Speaker 3: to a tother tough nahwa Isn't he a big body? Destructive?
• 32:30
  Speaker 3: Can play as you mentioned wing and center. Yeah, I
• 32:34
  Speaker 3: think he's a great asset and Razor does like big bodies,
• 32:38
  Speaker 3: whether it's on the wing or in the midfield.
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: Absolutely right, that'll do us the first half of Rugby Direct.
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: Back with our final four after the scurtsy of our
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: friends that Access solutions.
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: This is Rugby Direct, a podcast for real rugby fans.
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: Every drive has sixty second, every tackle tackles get up again.
• 33:03
  Speaker 3: Afore after. It's Rugby Direct.
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: You're back with Rugby Direct. Time now for the final four.
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: And look, we've talked about it previously on the podcast,
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: but it's time to talk about R three sixty again.
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: Is this actually going to happen? There's a lot of
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: chatte last week that Roger to I Vasa Shek have
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: signed him, or at least have approached him and thrown
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: something at him in terms of an offer. Obviously, the
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: story's been out there. What's your take on this, limb.
• 33:36
  Speaker 3: I think it will happen. There does seem to be
• 33:39
  Speaker 3: growing momentum behind it, but I don't know if it's
• 33:43
  Speaker 3: a major threat. I think it's telling that they're targeting
• 33:48
  Speaker 3: league guys as their marquee signings and Roger to Varsa
• 33:52
  Speaker 3: Shek is likely to be. I think it's he's kind
• 33:57
  Speaker 3: of to the Warriors until the end of twenty twenty six.
• 34:01
  Speaker 3: He Yeah, he made the All Blacks, but he wasn't
• 34:04
  Speaker 3: a raving success story in rugby union, and I think
• 34:07
  Speaker 3: that's the type of guy that they're going to be targeting,
• 34:09
  Speaker 3: because any player that goes to R three sixty should
• 34:12
  Speaker 3: it get off the ground is not going to be
• 34:13
  Speaker 3: able to play Test rugby at this stage, So that
• 34:16
  Speaker 3: rules out all the best players in the world. You
• 34:20
  Speaker 3: may get someone towards the end of their career go
• 34:22
  Speaker 3: and cash out, or somebody on the fringe of Test rugby,
• 34:26
  Speaker 3: maybe Hoskins Tutu type character that you can sell to
• 34:31
  Speaker 3: the masses. But yeah, just the concept of forming franchises
• 34:36
  Speaker 3: and traveling around the world, I do see it struggling
• 34:40
  Speaker 3: to get off the ground. So for me, it's not
• 34:42
  Speaker 3: a surprise that that's starting to target league guys, and
• 34:45
  Speaker 3: that's where a lot of the nervousness is coming from.
• 34:47
  Speaker 3: Rugby League. Doesn't seem like the established Test Nations and
• 34:52
  Speaker 3: Rugby are really looking over their shoulder at this at
• 34:55
  Speaker 3: the stage.
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: No, it doesn't, and it feels like rugby league a
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: panicing a little bit because they don't really have an
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: equivalent of this. You know, Rugby and New Zealand has
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: had to deal with France and Japan in recent years,
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: you know, putting big money in front of a lot
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: of players in rugby league. Now the Super League is
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: a two bit competition that basically isn't what it was
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: twenty thirty years ago where players would go over and
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: be given big money. There's just not enough money in
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: that competition now, all behind rugby league in England or
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: the UKs to do that. This players at the end
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: their career might still go but it's very much not
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: what it was in terms of some of those players
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: going over. So the Narrael hasn't had to deal with it.
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: They seem like they're a bit panicky over it. But look,
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: if you are three sixty and your marquee signing at
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: this point is robbed the Twi Vasishek playing union where
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: we saw that two or three years ago and didn't work.
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: So I'm not sure where the interest levels will come from,
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: where the money's coming from. Obviously a lot of talk
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: about the Saudis, but they haven't officially confirmed that they're involved.
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: Not sure I'd trust something that was involved like Tindall
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: as far as I could throw it. That's yeah, all
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: of it feels rather off to me.
• 36:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah, there's not a lot of substance there at this point.
• 36:06
  Speaker 3: But look, if the substance comes in terms of the
• 36:11
  Speaker 3: one million dollar offer that they're talking about for Roger
• 36:14
  Speaker 3: to of Arsisk, if those sort of offers are on
• 36:17
  Speaker 3: the table for more players, it could potentially hurt competitions
• 36:22
  Speaker 3: like Super Rugby and not maybe the top fourteen or
• 36:29
  Speaker 3: you know, the English Premiership. That's where it could have
• 36:32
  Speaker 3: an impact if those sort of offers are consistent. But
• 36:36
  Speaker 3: there's still major question marks about the substance behind this.
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: The one area where it could have an effect in
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: a good way, I think if there is some Saudi
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: influence here and they're looking to provide a product that
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: is entertaining in terms of R three sixty is putting
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: a little bit pressure on world rugby around some of
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: the rules in the sport and cleaning up some of that.
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: And if they're going to go, we're going to be
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: we're going to make tries seven points, We're going to
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: promote attacking rugby we're going to minimize the stoppages. You
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: can't take shots. Whatever it might be that could drive change.
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: Now some of it might seem gimmicky, but if they're
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: willing to drive, because their focus will be entertainment product.
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: Now they've got the sad he's got to live and
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: none watchers live. It's two men their dog watching it
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: on TV. They get crowds at the courses occasionally, but
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: their focus is on the entertainment product from the start
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: to the finish. You can't tell me that test rapy
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: in the way that is being played at the moment
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: is promoting an attacking product versus a law guided product.
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: So that's where maybe they might be able to cut
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: through some of the bullshit that's currently going on in
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: World and Wild Rugby.
• 37:43
  Speaker 3: That's right saying hey, this is you know, if the
• 37:47
  Speaker 3: fans start agitating for a change that they've seen somewhere else,
• 37:51
  Speaker 3: well it's going to be pretty hard to dismiss that.
• 37:54
  Speaker 3: And there's a similar sort of concept brewing around the
• 37:57
  Speaker 3: Sevens and franchise Sevens and what they are actually looking
• 38:01
  Speaker 3: at compared to what's been done globally for years in
• 38:04
  Speaker 3: terms of a three day event they're talking about staging
• 38:06
  Speaker 3: it all on one day, having straight knockouts from the
• 38:09
  Speaker 3: outset different sort of rules around it as well. So
• 38:13
  Speaker 3: from a as you say it like an agitation perspective
• 38:16
  Speaker 3: to drive meaningful change. From as a better product, it
• 38:21
  Speaker 3: could have a place, but who knows whether it actually
• 38:24
  Speaker 3: gets off the ground.
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: We shall see topic number two of the Fist Lions
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: test in the books, and that was comfortably won by
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: the Lions. Maybe not on the school board, but certainly
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: in terms of the way they went about their business,
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: maybe apart from the last twenty twenty five minutes when
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: it got a bit hairy. I questioned last week whether
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: this was the worst lines to ever. Still haven't seen
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: evidence against that. There's the Pacivica Island team playing the
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: lines tonight, but pretty much got what we expected on
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: Saturday night. The lines are too good. The world has
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: been good enough. Yours please.
• 38:56
  Speaker 3: In basically every aspect wasn't it physicality at the breakdown,
• 39:02
  Speaker 3: pace ball skills, The lines were up something like twenty
• 39:07
  Speaker 3: four and the game's done. The Wallabies come back and
• 39:11
  Speaker 3: score a couple of late tries to put some respectability
• 39:14
  Speaker 3: in the scoreboard, but it wasn't really a contest, and
• 39:18
  Speaker 3: that's the first test. I'd expect the Lions to get better.
• 39:23
  Speaker 3: I'd be making some changes for the Wallaby straight off
• 39:25
  Speaker 3: the bat. Angus Bell, Tate McDermott Andrew Callaway, I think
• 39:28
  Speaker 3: I'd all be bringing them in to start. But it
• 39:32
  Speaker 3: really was a lightweight Wallaby's team on paper. Saw that
• 39:36
  Speaker 3: in the lead up to that game and just didn't
• 39:38
  Speaker 3: give them a show of winning that test based on
• 39:40
  Speaker 3: who was on paper. No Rob Valentini, no will skelt him.
• 39:43
  Speaker 3: A real lack of size in that pack, and it's
• 39:48
  Speaker 3: just really hard to see where the Wallabies can better
• 39:52
  Speaker 3: that Lion's team.
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: Nick Champions de Crapp and I thought was actually pretty
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: handy at blindside, but it didn't miss Valentini. To be honest,
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: I'm putting James o connor in at ten this week.
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: There's a must win for Joe Schmidt. You've got to
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: throw all those players you mentioned in there your hope
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: like hell, that Rob val team, he's ready to go,
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: and I'm putting James O'Connor in a ten. You can't
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: you go and develop Ben Donaldson or Tomliner or whoever
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: it is. James O'Connor has been there and done that
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: at Tesla before. I'm going to Connor this week at ten.
• 40:21
  Speaker 3: I don't mind that British Norrish Lions series is not
• 40:25
  Speaker 3: a time to throw in a rookie ten. And yeah,
• 40:28
  Speaker 3: Australia don't have great options there and I've been hurt
• 40:33
  Speaker 3: by injuries and had to change their plans, but it
• 40:36
  Speaker 3: was very evident that that was you know, Tomliner's introduction
• 40:41
  Speaker 3: to Test rugby did some good things, but he looked
• 40:44
  Speaker 3: rattled at times as well, and it's such a pivotal position.
• 40:48
  Speaker 3: So yeah, I think everyone probably the longer this tour
• 40:54
  Speaker 3: went on, the more everyone's expected three nil and I
• 40:58
  Speaker 3: think the more interest is going to be sucked out
• 41:01
  Speaker 3: of it unless the Wallabies can pull a massive upset
• 41:04
  Speaker 3: off this week top.
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: Of number three Johnny Gibbs, then you Chiefs coach. This
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: is from a no surprise file. Everyone expected it from
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: the moment Claim Willan was announced that he's going to Munster.
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: A good appointment I think for the Chiefs. Bit of
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: continuity reigns to be seen whether they can get away
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: from that bride'smaid tag that has followed them around for
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: a few seasons. Now maybe Gibbs is the kind of
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: coach that can push and beyond.
• 41:28
  Speaker 3: That, Yeah, potentially. I think Jerry's probably out on Johno
• 41:31
  Speaker 3: as a head coach. He's been very good when he's
• 41:35
  Speaker 3: been Ford's coaches, but he was which is not uncommon.
• 41:39
  Speaker 3: Sent packing from his last gig in France. It's pretty
• 41:42
  Speaker 3: ruthless industry up there, with their club owners demanding certain things.
• 41:48
  Speaker 3: If they don't get them, they'll they'll pull the trigger.
• 41:51
  Speaker 3: So I think it will be a challenge for him
• 41:53
  Speaker 3: stepping up from assistant to head coach. And the Chiefs,
• 41:58
  Speaker 3: while for a lack of titles, have been very good
• 42:02
  Speaker 3: in their consistency. So a big challenge for him. But look,
• 42:06
  Speaker 3: that's squad, the rosters very stable. Will he had the
• 42:09
  Speaker 3: benefit of being there so continuity will help. And yeah,
• 42:13
  Speaker 3: interesting to see if he can get something more from them.
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: You've mentioned before, you know, the Crusaders not looking outside
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: their region.
• 42:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah, well the Chiefs if it doesn't go well, they
• 42:24
  Speaker 3: could be guilty of that as well. I don't know
• 42:26
  Speaker 3: did they advertise it. It doesn't really seem like they did.
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: I don't think they did. I might be wrong. Simon
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: Grafis is listening. You can correct us on that, but.
• 42:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah, they obviously identified very early that they had what
• 42:37
  Speaker 3: they felt to be strong internal candidates. I think Roger
• 42:41
  Speaker 3: Randall and who's the Canterbury Muddy Book. Yeah, he was
• 42:47
  Speaker 3: involved with the Chiefs, so I think they would have
• 42:50
  Speaker 3: interviewed or spoke to those and obviously gone with John O.
• 42:53
  Speaker 3: But yeah, I think in any job you should throw
• 42:57
  Speaker 3: it open and see who's out there. Wales have finally
• 43:01
  Speaker 3: made they're appointed their coach Steve Tandy with.
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: I thought he was there replaceable for a moment. Galls,
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: they're replaceable. Gatlin.
• 43:09
  Speaker 3: Have they pulled down the gate yet?
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: Oh well maybe you could pull it down when we
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: get there in November. We picture from the rugby direct fans.
• 43:17
  Speaker 3: But that's got to be the biggest job in world
• 43:19
  Speaker 3: sport almost, doesn't it? Turning around Wales that there's such
• 43:23
  Speaker 3: a dysfunctional.
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: Hey, Steve Tanny might have them humming by week four
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: of the Automnations Championship when the all blecks are off,
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: they might be world beaters.
• 43:32
  Speaker 3: Who knows, he's a proven defensive coach, but again, stick
• 43:35
  Speaker 3: it stepping up to test rugby in a head coaching
• 43:38
  Speaker 3: role in Wales. Yeah, good luck son all right.
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: Topic number four. The New Zealand under twenties lose to
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: South Africa in the World Championship final, first time they're
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: in the final. The New Zealand team since twenty seventeen
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: beaten by South Africa. Just you know, we're trouble by
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: red card in the first half and felt like they
• 44:01
  Speaker 2: were behind the eight ball a lot of that game.
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: What did you make of their campaign and what do
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: we take.
• 44:05
  Speaker 3: Out of it? I think it's a win. Anytime you
• 44:10
  Speaker 3: lose the final, you're going to be disappointed, aren't you
• 44:12
  Speaker 3: go there to claim a title. But it's been a
• 44:16
  Speaker 3: long time and I think it's a big improvement on
• 44:21
  Speaker 3: where this twenties team has been. And let's not forget
• 44:24
  Speaker 3: they had a changeing head coach a matter of months before,
• 44:30
  Speaker 3: weeks before going to this tournament, which could have been
• 44:32
  Speaker 3: hugely disruptive. But I think it's a good result.
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think so. I think probably in some ways
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: too much waitings put on the under twenties and how
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: what the results are. I think it's more about pathways
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: and players. This is the only time that they'll play together,
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: you know, groups by age and so when you get
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: to senior level, you make the cut where you don't.
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: It's not a matter of how old you are, So
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: I think a little bit too much weightings given to that.
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: But what I did see was, you know, a lot
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: of systems that worked in terms of the way they played.
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: Beat the South African team in the Rugby Championship edition
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: of the under twenties a few months ago in South Africa.
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: So I think there's some positive signs. It's more about
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: the pathways than the players that are coming through, I think.
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: And there looks to be a promising group of players.
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: A couple of really promising young hookers Manamu let You
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: from the Crusader has already had a couple of games
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: the Crusaders eli Odin Ryan, Jill Pleger and a couple
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: of the locks look really good as well. So there's
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: some players there that are promising. A couple of outside
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: backs too.
• 45:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and shout out to Tane Harvey Fox and boy
• 45:43
  Speaker 3: who was on the bench for the final. He I'm
• 45:46
  Speaker 3: pretty sure he's playing for South on an NPC. He's
• 45:48
  Speaker 3: in the Highlanders system. So yeah, pretty amazing to see
• 45:52
  Speaker 3: a small town kid who captains Parmeerson North Boys high
• 45:55
  Speaker 3: in the mix.
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: They will he now replaced you as sort of you
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: know the Naper club rooms. We were replaced by him.
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: Well what's the go there?
• 46:02
  Speaker 3: Well down to Peking I've got you know, Doug Allen
• 46:06
  Speaker 3: was you know, multi sport champion and he was on
• 46:08
  Speaker 3: the boat for Team New Zealand. So you know, I'm
• 46:11
  Speaker 3: just on the bottom of the shoe mate. It can
• 46:12
  Speaker 3: be the Foxton's greatest hits.
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: All right, Well, there'll do us for Rguy rate for
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: another week. Thanks to Excess Solutions elevating you and your
• 46:20
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• 46:22
  Speaker 2: Bars English for producing. Where We'll see you next time.
• 46:29
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• 46:31
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