Latest / Stronger Business Together / E6 Don't React stay on Track with Jessica Morgan
Transcript
- Granger Forson: So hello, this is the Stronger Business Together podcast where business owners learn from each other. No theory, no gurus, just real journeys and overcoming real hurdles. So today I'm joined by Jessica Morgan of Carnsight Communications. ⁓ Like business owner, she's in that of building things, fixing things, growing things, and ⁓ making that really matter. So Jessica, welcome. Jessica Morgan: Thank you, Granger, it's lovely to be here. Granger Forson: Awesome. So let's go on with act one, all about your business. So plain English, what does your business do? Jessica Morgan: So, Khan Site Communications gives business founders the recognition they deserve. And what I mean by that is we ⁓ practical and powerful PR and social media to help ⁓ founder-led businesses to ⁓ better known. And ⁓ that's point about recognition. It's about being recognised for the great work that they do and the great products and services they provide. Granger Forson: Fantastic, we all love good recognition, absolutely. So who do you love helping and what are they typically dealing with? Jessica Morgan: So we definitely specialize in founder led, so businesses that are still led by the original founder or they're still involved in the process. We work across a number of sectors. So some of our sector specialisms are healthcare, property, creative services, creative agencies. And they come to us with a challenge that they want to be better known, they want recognition for what they're doing. and they want their audience, I guess, to see them more. so we offer them ⁓ PR campaigns, ongoing PR or social media help. Granger Forson: Nice, So, when did it start? What was the original spark, the idea that got you going? Jessica Morgan: So 10 years ago, which is exciting. So we've just celebrated our 10 year anniversary. So you very much. 2016, it started and was very much a kitchen table business, literally. I had ⁓ left London and I moved the West country. So we're based between Bristol and Bath. And I was actually maternity leave as well with my second child. And I started to... Granger Forson: Congratulations. Jessica Morgan: work for a company that was run by my friend who had just been acquired by a bigger company. They needed some PR support. thought, well, I'll do this project and see if it turns into more. it did, was fantastic. So we've gradually built up from then. It was just me to start with ⁓ literally working at the table, clearing things away, you know, at the end the day, working between nap times and nursery pickups. I saw the potential for more. I really enjoyed it, but I wanted to build something, wanted to build a team. ⁓ we've built through then. obviously COVID was challenge, but we've carried on as was for many ⁓ small businesses. But we've gradually building and we're a team of four currently about to be a team of five. So that's where we are today. Granger Forson: Yes Brilliant. So why do your customers pick you and how do you delight them? Jessica Morgan: So delighting is a really good word actually, because I think it's so important to really have good service as a small business. is everything, obviously from our work on PR and social media, we apply that to ourselves as well. So we want five star reviews, we want recommendations. So it's really all about firstly getting to know the business that we're working with really well. So we have an initial session which is... really getting under the skin of them, what their challenges are, they've done before, what has worked, what hasn't worked and how we can help them. So that's a key thing. And then really regular contact, I think is another key thing. ⁓ we're responsive. We don't have emails sitting in our inboxes for days on ends. We have to respond really quickly to both the that we're working with, but also the media, for example, that we're working with. We have to respond really quickly to trends and to changes in the environment, to news. So I think responsiveness is another really key thing. And then I think the third thing is about the results aspect. So it's really important to us that we prove the worth of what we're doing. And that can be tricky with PR and social media. We can't give you an ROI figure and say, this is exactly what was achieved, but we do track everything that we do. on the PR and the social media side and we report really, really regularly and actually real time in some circumstances to show clients the impact of our work. so that proving what we're doing at all stages is really important to us as well. Granger Forson: I've never thought about a PR communications being able to report in live real time. Brilliant. I like that very much. So give us an example. us customer success you're really proud about. Jessica Morgan: Yeah. ⁓ Sure, so work on both business to business and business to consumer. I guess a business to consumer one ⁓ we've recently worked on, which has been lovely, is an independent retailer that was opening in Bath. So they're a Midlands brand, primarily menswear. they've been going for about 30 years. I think ⁓ had a of sites in the Midlands. And they were looking to travel down to Bath for the first time and open up. a new store down there. So that was exciting. a challenge because they were totally unknown of down here. We a campaign for them. We ⁓ created a launch event as well, just to sure we had something to invite people to. They were opening in a grade, I think it was a grade two or grade one listed building. So a really lovely heritage building in Bath. So we helped them to create a bath themed event. And we invited local media and influencers along created some collaborations as well with influencers. we got them some fantastic coverage, which was actually national as well as local, just talking about really just looking at it more broadly, because actually independent fashion retailers are not that common anymore, especially not success stories, opening new stores. ⁓ So really drawing in angle. creating a much bigger buzz around something that could have been a kind of small store opening, some great results for it, ⁓ great collaborations and the client wanting to work with us again. So that's a real success story. It translated into sales for them. So of their launches, this has been the most successful launch. And obviously it's quite difficult financial times at the moment as well. So ⁓ were really proud of that one. Granger Forson: Wow, that's brilliant. I love that. That's really nice to see. that retail is alive strong, but really nice to see how you've helped them be such successful launch ⁓ So, ⁓ every business leads. how do you ⁓ leads? ⁓ Jessica Morgan: Yeah. Thank you. Yeah, it's a good question. try and be a lot more systematic about it now. and originally it was word of mouth, ⁓ good campaign being recommended to someone. I actually worked in advertising for ⁓ ⁓ and then in PR before ⁓ worked for myself. So I built up over those 15 years, some great contacts. So really ⁓ was my network and it was recommendations initially. Nowadays we have concentrated in SEO ⁓ now looking at GEO, AI search as well, just to make sure we rank highly. And actually the job that came in, that was via them finding us online, which is really nice. So SEO, ⁓ social is important for us as well. So we've had clients discovering us on social media. And then recently I've been doing a lot more networking as well. and actually really trying to make the time to do that, to meet new business owners. because it's led businesses, we're ⁓ primarily working with networking with founder led businesses. And it might be that ⁓ they could end as clients, but equally trying to ⁓ help build my really. So we could be in a position to be recommended, and we can recommend other people as well. So we found that that's quite powerful at the moment, actually the networking side of things. Granger Forson: Excellent. And any particular lead gen process that hasn't worked for you? Jessica Morgan: So we haven't done much advertising and my in advertising. So I really do believe in it, but I think ⁓ it necessarily been something somewhere we really wanted to spend our ⁓ time money. think, you the likes of Google AdWords, et cetera, I think they can be incredibly powerful, but our model is, I guess, more about being a bit more selective with clients and working with people who we know we can get good results for. Granger Forson: Yeah. Jessica Morgan: at the right time. So that I guess is a more of a an initial kind of vetting process or kind of deliberation process. So we found that maybe getting in a lot of leads at once. That's necessarily the right strategy for us. Not to we wouldn't try it in future, but I think the way we're set up at the moment, I think, not getting those amount of inquiries in that we need to kind of sift through, etc. hasn't been something that we've necessarily wanted to spend our time or money on. Granger Forson: yes, you can definitely see that with your target market, but also your approach of wanting to work with the original founders and getting to know them and understanding them. And that's a know, like and trust stuff that will take a while to build. So, brilliant. So what are you aiming for the next 12 months for the business and why? Jessica Morgan: So definitely growth. So like I said, never really been for me about growth for growth's sake. I've been in organizations that have just targeted growth and you get that kind of boom and bust culture. think it's not necessarily the best environment for people to stay long term and longevity is quite important to me as well. So always looked ⁓ for sustainable growth and this year we're at a good level where we can have someone else in the team. been starting to look at the 10 year plan really, rather than just ⁓ 12 month plan, but the 12 month plan will be about having an extra person, everyone being able to progress a level and more capacity, which is exciting. In terms the 10 year plan, I want to hit a million turnover at least, ⁓ and ⁓ I to the team to over 10 people. So that's what I'm going to be working towards, but I'm kind of doing it year by year. So immediately it's about having a team of five and being prepared to our capacity really. And then in the longer term, it's ⁓ at least doubling that kind of growth, that team growth. Granger Forson: Exciting, yes, look forward to that very much, seeing how that happens. So let's move on to Act Two now, your business journey. So over the last 10 years, what have been some of the highs and lows of building your business? Jessica Morgan: Thanks. I think highs ⁓ been things awards. ⁓ So won ⁓ an for best agency in Bath last year at the Creative Bath Awards. That was a massive high. Thank you. ⁓ That a massive high because we're a lot smaller than ⁓ some in the city and ⁓ servicing But we're ⁓ punchy, mighty. So that was a lovely recognition of that. Granger Forson: ⁓ congratulations. Jessica Morgan: I think also just taking a moment to pause and celebrate wins, especially with the team is really important because we do move in quite a fast environment. We're always kind of onto the next thing. So that was a lovely thing. in of ⁓ lows, say COVID was like I earlier, that was tricky. We were about grow the team and we had to pause. Luckily we didn't have to lose anyone, but we did have to pause in our hiring. And we had to embrace probably different projects that we wouldn't normally embrace and different clients. There was also a positive to that because we got to work on some really interesting businesses and people who pivoted during COVID. So that was interesting. we had a number of retained clients and it did feel a bit like dominoes at one stage. You know, I was getting a phone call going, we're to have to pause activity. We're going to have to pause activity. That was tricky. Granger Forson: Hahaha Jessica Morgan: And personally for me, it was a really difficult time, COVID. I think that's been quite a low. Granger Forson: as grow in your business, like any business owner, are times when it gets really hard. What did learn about yourself and your business at that time? Jessica Morgan: I think self-belief is really important. And I'm not sure if I'd ever really had that self-belief before starting a business. You really have to not draw confidence from everyone around you. You really have to have it internally. ⁓ been a journey I've gone on. So I've had to sit in rooms and ⁓ I can still do this. Even if this person in front of me is saying X, Y, and Z, I know that I can do this. We can do this as a business. And we're good at it. think that's ⁓ really important. I've learned that I need to be around people as well. I really, draw energy from other people, but I also bounce off their creative ideas and thinking. I really value that support aspect. So when I started off on my own, I quite quickly realized I can't be a sole consultant without having a team around me. I do need to build that team. ⁓ but it needs to be the right team as well. So I can't, a team for team sake. need to, to choose each team member really, really carefully. And I've noticed that in small businesses, there is nowhere to hide. You do have to have people who are delivering, and adding to the whole. so yeah, that's another key thing I think I've learned along the way. Granger Forson: I'm thinking about people, one of things I always talk about is growing people, developing them. Is there that you've probably that you wish you'd maybe learned earlier around ⁓ growing and developing people? Jessica Morgan: Yeah, feel exactly the same. love that development. I love seeing someone really develop in front of you, growing confidence, growing competency. I I learned early on ⁓ about importance of investing in people. So initially my ⁓ model set up where I was being paid. And then my first person who came on board was an intern. And I had to try and change the model. So both of us were being paid, but she was learning on the job. I early on about the importance of investing in people. So initially my ⁓ model was set up where I was being paid. then my first person who came board was an intern. And I quickly had to try change the model. So both of us were being paid, but she was learning on the job. so actually kind getting clients to pay for that extra person was tricky. ⁓ I from experience, you really need to invest in the people that on. need to make sure they are being paid correctly. They have annual pay reviews. you know, they're being remunerated properly. even if you're small, you need to make sure that ⁓ so actually kind of getting clients to pay for that extra person was tricky. ⁓ learned from that experience, you really need to invest in people that come on. need to make sure they are being paid correctly. They have annual pay reviews. they're being remunerated properly. even if you're small, you need to make sure that they're an asset and they're being treated as an asset. I've learned they're an asset and they're being treated as an asset. I've learned that. And then I think the development aspect, again, in a small business, I think ⁓ a benefit because people are working directly with the founder or the person running the business or the senior team, which is incredible. So the power ⁓ osmosis can be really So people can advance really quickly, which is great, but you do also need that formal training. So I've learned that I need to be offering my team management training, for example, you can learn on the job and you can learn from people around you, ⁓ actually having some element of formal training to accompany that is really important. So I've learned to, ⁓ can't find every single course, but I've learned to empower my team to, to find courses or to discuss courses with me, or that we'll sit down and talk about them and to choose courses that they can. they can go on as well, because I think you can't just rely on them learning everything organically on the job. You have to also give them external training. Granger Forson: I love that expression, know, that ⁓ organic, osmosis that takes place in the business. That's quite a nice idea. ⁓ Yeah, very true, what decisions have probably changed trajectory of your Jessica Morgan: Yeah. much I want to grow organically versus versus really pushing growth side of things has been interesting because really ⁓ natural tendency is to kind go with the flow, to see opportunity and to kind of work towards it. I think that there's been a few sliding doors moments where we've been offered work in a new sector where I've thought actually, there's a massive opportunity there, there's massive potential, but I will need to... have more people dedicated to that sector. So I think those kinds of things have probably changed the trajectory of where we're going. bringing social media into things. So to start with, we were just offering PR. And there was an opportunity for one of the clients we were working ⁓ on actually use their LinkedIn to amplify some of the PR. And then we made the decision to really look at that as a business and as an extra service to invest in that, to get people who were trained in social media. So I think that's been another area where we've kind of diversified and seen the potential. But I tend to be quite instinctive, I'd say, rather than sitting and planning and saying, in six months, this will happen. I tend to have an overall plan and then try and be quite responsive and reactive to what is happening because much has changed over business over the last five years, over the last 10 years, even over the last two and three years in what we do. It's a different business and industry to ⁓ it was like five, six, seven years ago. So I found it's really important to not necessarily put all my eggs in one basket to actually test something out and see how it works before going all in on it. So I think that's generally the way that we grow as a company. Granger Forson: I like that. Just testing your waters, seeing where it happens and then grow into it. there are always energy sappers, a product, a service, a person, a client, have you had to do any removal and did it give you energy back in the business? Jessica Morgan: ⁓ have had to make some ⁓ changes and ⁓ been hard. And I've to remind myself again not to get too involved personally. It's really in a small business ⁓ to draw line between professional and personal, especially if someone is going through personal challenges. But I've had to, for the sake of the business and the team, make some difficult decisions at times. and you're completely right about the kind of radiators and drains, I guess is a terminology that I've heard before. don't need to be identikit, the ⁓ same same way working. You do need different people around, which I've learned early on and I completely understand. But if there is an ⁓ energy sapper Granger Forson: Yeah. Jessica Morgan: or someone who is pulling in a different direction to the rest of people. That just doesn't work, especially not in a small team. So I have had to make some difficult decisions along the way for the good of the business. And it's just very important to understand that it's for the good of the business structure, it's for the good of the team and for the good of future growth, I guess, and prosperity in the business as well. Granger Forson: Yeah, very true ⁓ it's amazing then ⁓ the energy comes back in everything you do even though it's been sitting on your shoulders for such a long time and hard to make but then it comes through. ⁓ Jessica Morgan: Yeah, yeah, completely. In fact, I learned a good phrase about that from a course I do. I participate in something called Growth Leaders, which is business founders in a room talking about ⁓ businesses once a month and learning well. It's not just talking, but someone ⁓ used phrase, are you carrying your or are you working in your business? And I think at times as a small business owner, you can feel like you're carrying it. It feels like the weight of the world, doesn't it? ⁓ think making those changes sometimes feels like a weight has been lifted and you're no longer carrying, you're actually forging a path and driving it forward. Granger Forson: Yeah. absolutely, So what you now to keep the business focused on doing the right things ⁓ and keeping the healthy even when you get really busy? Jessica Morgan: And that's the million dollar question, isn't it? That's busyness can be so hard. I working in business much less than I used to. And that's a really key thing for me. I, I identify every ⁓ the bits of work, which were in the business, the day to day and the bits that are on the business. And ⁓ there is still on ⁓ than in, which great, but I am still doing some things in the business. and I try and identify what they are and how I can gradually move out of being in the business. So for example, the new resource that we'll bring in will actually enable that to happen more, which is great. And then I think if I do have time and space to focus on the business, then I am ready to face those challenges and to be the person who can do that quickly and reactively. The more I'm drawn in, the less able I am. And that's when I start the kind of doing something in the evening or having to go on at the weekend and do things. And I really try not to do that. I try to be quite strict with my time and to try and work within my hours. So for me, it's just about keeping a really close eye on what I'm doing within and what I'm doing on and making sure the balance is always in favor of on rather than in. Granger Forson: And actually if you let time you will just become less efficient ⁓ than if you just stay focused and time-bound everything you do. So yeah, brilliant. ⁓ So let's move on Act 3 now, ⁓ our hurdle, our discussion you've chosen one from ⁓ a today but you thought was quite relevant to yourself. So what's the hurdle that we're going to work on together? Jessica Morgan: hurdle ⁓ was talked about was actually able be responsive to questions, queries, inquiries coming into a ⁓ and not leaving them sitting there. So you're kind of wasting opportunities because you're too focused on the day to day. And interestingly, when you and I had a chat, I feel like sometimes it can be the opposite with us where, really balancing the day to day, isn't it? And the reactivity and being reactive to problems. So I think it would be an interesting challenge to talk about. Granger Forson: Yeah. Absolutely. So is that making sure that we don't miss the scheduled work when the reactive work comes in, which is the nature of some of the work that you do anyway, So typically thinking about within business then talk me through what would be happening today? How ⁓ does scheduled work get organized how does ⁓ reactive work come in and that? Jessica Morgan: So instance, at the moment, we're working on the follow up to a messaging session that I mentioned earlier, which is our deep dive session initially when we get to know a client. And we put everything together and we really analyze it ⁓ play it back to them in a way that works for them and works for us to hopefully make their messaging really clear and allow to say, yeah, that's exactly what we're trying to communicate. But. we had a journalist come back to us today ask us for really quick follow-up information for a really nice piece that's being worked on. And it was one of those stop press type situations where we had to of park and put the kind of work to one side, spend half an hour on this, get something from a client signed off quickly, present that very quickly back to the journalists, go backwards and forwards. And that kind of thing happens quite frequently that either a client comes in with a last minute request or a journalist does. And a for us. It's quite hard for us to manage that. Granger Forson: how's showing up? Does it happen every day? Is it ⁓ once week? What's the sort of frequency of that level of interruption? Jessica Morgan: I'd say a few times a week. Sometimes it could be a last minute social media post from a client who urgently needs to get something up online. So it could be one of both of those things. But I would say, two or three times a week, that kind of thing happens. And we need to kind of work out a way to deal with that. Granger Forson: And when you say we because you've got a team around you, is it impacting the whole team then? Is that the way that you work? Why do you use the word we? Jessica Morgan: So sometimes it is, every account more than one person works on really. So ⁓ of us, there'll be two or three people working on it. And with those kinds of things, it's a heads together moment. It's not a ⁓ this is process for It could be a... Granger Forson: Okay. Jessica Morgan: well, we need to provide some really quick comments to this journalist, the client isn't available, they've given us comments in the past, is there anything we can use from those? It's a heads together, quickly regrouping and we're all in the office together at least three days a week. So ⁓ that's why often all kind of stop, stop what you're doing, be drawn into that kind of process. Granger Forson: Yep. Right, so maybe the proximity at times is causing some of that, which is very helpful, but is it helpful to the business? Okay, what have you tried then to try and fix this type of issues? Jessica Morgan: Well, sometimes we do try and handle them kind of singly, you one person will do that and everyone else will carry on with the day job. We also stop ⁓ really analyze the situation now, rather than just being reactive as soon as an email comes in, ⁓ might go back and say, Do we need to do this in the next hour? It might be positioned as do it immediately, but sometimes that's stopping and checking actually know you've got until the end of the day or you've got until tomorrow. that's one thing that we do. And then another thing is, is trying to, I trying to manage situations so that we don't get into habits of doing this with certain clients, for example. So, I think sometimes Granger Forson: Excellent. Jessica Morgan: way they approach something can be matched by you and your energy and then it can kind of carry on like that. So it's almost about not getting into bad habits really. So is it really urgent? Obviously if it is urgent, great. But what we found in the past, for example, is actually it feels like it's urgent, but it's only urgent because of a false deadline or because they know that you'll react quickly. So think another thing we've tried is just to just to kind of pause and not necessarily ask them if this is urgent, but actually ask ourselves, how urgent is this? And if we do this every time, this just keep happening? So I think that's another strategy that we've tried to implement with these kind of things. Yeah. Granger Forson: So doing a bit of triage on how important and how urgent is it really? Absolutely. And when it is urgent and you've agreed that that's what we need to do, do you organise ⁓ team in order to make happen? Because you're work on hold, aren't you, when that's happening? Jessica Morgan: So, yeah, yeah. So I think we try and minimise the time. I think that's one thing. Again, sometimes in your head, it will feel like a task is going to take a really long time. But what we sometimes do is say, right, have you got 10 minutes? we've even been known to time it as well. We do that sometimes with our meetings, we actually time them and make ourselves move on. Granger Forson: Okay. Brilliant. Jessica Morgan: If we need to. So sometimes it's that let's get together now, drop that, but I promise you, I'll just use you for 10 minutes, getting straight to the point and let, you know, analyzing what we need to do and explain the issue and seeing if we can solve it as a team in 10 minutes. And if not, hopefully we can create a plan altogether in 10 minutes that leaves some people free to get on with their work and then maybe one person to action what comes out of it. So we have found, although it feels like, ⁓ this is going to be really long, actually, if we just look at it for a few minutes to start with, we can break it down into something that is much more manageable. Granger Forson: Yeah. Yeah, I like that. That's brilliant. And even putting that timer on so in 10 minutes we've got to have a solution here to make this happen. how you organize the ⁓ allow for type of disruption that might take Jessica Morgan: That's a good question. would say that we are very ⁓ generally. So we work, the team works a full day week, which is a key thing we haven't talked about. that to Thursday is, yeah, it's Monday to Thursday is so productive, I'd say certainly compared to places I've, everyone's been working five days. So I think the, there's definitely a motivation to get everything done in a good timeframe. So that's one thing. Granger Forson: Okay. Yeah, that's great, like that. Yeah. Jessica Morgan: Another thing, and people are left to organize their diaries how they like to, but I always say that people should leave time in between those, those kind of appointments that are in there, just to ensure you don't have a day that's just back to back meetings, because actually there's no kind of doing time then. We've also tried to keep client meetings to half an hour or 45 minutes. We used to kind of do the standard, that's an hour. Granger Forson: Yeah. Yeah. Jessica Morgan: But actually now, if we can do, we'll put in 45 minutes. And if we can do, we'll actually only put in half an hour and we'll be quite efficient in meetings and just explain to clients that they can get some time back on weekend as well. So I think part of what we've tried to do is give people time and space in between other things ⁓ that they hopefully do have space to quickly regroup. Because I don't think the problem is going to go away 100%. We work a very reactive environment. Granger Forson: Yeah. Jessica Morgan: and news jacking and things like that won't wait. So I think it's about having space that they hopefully aren't so kind of consumed in the day to day that they don't have any headspace or time to kind of look up and help with those things. Granger Forson: Absolutely, yes. Yeah. do you actually track the number of interruptions and the amount of time you spend on interruptions? So could you say the sort of frequency that this might happen? reason I say that it takes me back to my manufacturing days and we used to use a thing called runners, repeaters and strangers. So we would book within our production slots all the work for the main work and we would leave enough capacity for those random events because the clients, certain customers were not as good as others in planning for those random events. And if the random event didn't take place, we would just carry on and fill up the rest of the week on that day for the extra capacity that we would build and use. So just thinking around how you schedule and organize by leaving some space for random events. If it doesn't take place that day, you just consume that bringing your scheduled work forwards do it. And then if you get all the work done, at 80 % allowing 20 % for random events, then at the end of the week that 20 % can be consumed by pulling the next week forward maybe of scheduled work etc. So it's maybe thinking about that sort of planning structure, how does that thing work with you? Jessica Morgan: Yeah, I think that's a great idea. I hadn't thought about putting time in for that kind of thing in the diary. I think that's a really sensible idea. We do track what we work on. So if we do stop for an emergency meeting, we'll quickly press a button on the timer that we work on. We work on clockifiers, our system we work on. So we can see what we've been working on at different times of the day. So actually, probably it wouldn't take much, would it, to analyze that. Granger Forson: Yeah. Jessica Morgan: and to work out we need to allow in future. Granger Forson: and it And the other thing maybe to consider as well is idea that when you task switch, when you go from one thing to another and then back again, you lose an amount of time. There's 30 % number often banded about that you can lose because you're in the zone, ⁓ we all need to stop for 10 minutes. ⁓ We that. And then you've got to get back into the zone or you now move on to something else. And then an hour later, you get back into the zone with the scheduled work. of building a structure. in the manufacturing world we have very fixed time sets so every, I'm not this the perfect answer, you know 11 o'clock is when we all stop and say right have we got any emergency schedules this morning that we all need to talk about ⁓ because then your brain then naturally then prepares for that o'clock slot ⁓ it locks away stuff you with that if there isn't anything you can then carry on with the scheduled work so you know sometimes thinking about ⁓ the organisational structure to stop. The interruptions will still take place but rather than being an interruption it's a scheduled interruption if that makes sense. Jessica Morgan: Yeah, that's a really good idea. Yeah. And I think I know exactly what you mean. Sometimes it's that deep work that you're doing, isn't it? Like that presentation that you're preparing that you really need to think about and actually being pulled out of that and taken back into it is really hard. So, yeah, that's a great idea to kind of set a moment to stop and think and look and scan, I guess. Granger Forson: there's another way of doing it, which is to schedule ⁓ somebody responsible for a day that does of that random work that through and then you move that through the team each day so the rest of week people can just do the scheduled work and the deep thinking work. ⁓ another way, there's usually a way that how manage call centres, ⁓ you so ⁓ somebody focuses on the phone calls other people the other activities and you slowly bring others in as required So there's some different ways of thinking about how to balance workloads depending on what you've got. So excellent. Okay. So what could you go and experiment week with? ⁓ Jessica Morgan: think ⁓ you've just said there is fantastic. I think it might be hard to have dedicated person because we work on different projects, but I think that... that scheduling time in for things that might happen is a great idea and looking at our time planning and just working out when these things have happened in the past and how much we need to schedule. And then I like the idea of maybe a look up time at 11 o'clock or something like that, like you said. And I think both of those would work well in our business. Granger Forson: Excellent. How would you success after running a small experiment like that? Jessica Morgan: think we'd have to do it over time and just maybe look at what happens if we do it for a month and does feel like they had those kind of interruptions. I think it's quite hard to track it in any kind of ROI capacity but I think judging by people's and do people find it's an improved service, I think that's something that then we would ⁓ probably roll out. Granger Forson: Brilliant. let's move on to our close and wrap up now. So what did you hear yourself today that maybe surprised you? Jessica Morgan: interesting to myself talking about team changes because I haven't really talked about that before. so I think, I think kind of broaching that that was, that was difficult period, I guess, for me. So, so hearing about the fact that we've had to make some was, was interesting really to go into. and, ⁓ It's always quite nice to hear myself talk about the business as well. just don't think there are that many times that you stop and pause and reflect. So think thinking about challenges and ⁓ kind opportunities we've had over the years has been quite a nice way to frame things as well. Granger Forson: Brilliant, well thank you so much for your honesty. And finally Jessica, how can people get hold of you and learn more about your journey? Jessica Morgan: Brilliant. So ⁓ our website is karnsite.com and that's C-A-R-N-S-I-G-H-T.com. am on LinkedIn, Jessica Morgan, Karnsite Communications on LinkedIn. And we are also on ⁓ social like Instagram as well, where you can see behind the scenes and that's Karnsite Coms on Instagram. Granger Forson: But Jessica, thank you so much for your honesty, open conversation today. It's been fantastic. And I know our listeners will learn a lot from this one. Jessica Morgan: Thank you very much. It's been fantastic. Really nice to talk to you, Granger. Thank you.