Latest / Deadly Divas True Crime Podcast / Episode 35: Lorena Bobbitt

Transcript

Episode 35: Lorena Bobbitt · Deadly Divas True Crime Podcast

• 0:13
  SPEAKER_00: Hello, true crime divas and dudes.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: Tina here, and welcome back to your favorite true crime podcast, Deadly Devos.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm Sarah.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_01: If you're new here, welcome.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: Every Friday we dive into a new true crime case, separating the facts from the headlines and taking a closer look at the stories behind them.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: And today's case is one that almost everyone thinks they know.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: Today we are diving into the story of Lorena Bobbitt.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I wasn't living in America yet when this happened, but I certainly heard about it on British news, and I'm pretty sure everywhere in the world has heard of it too.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: On June 23rd, 1993, just after midnight, police officers searched a field in Manassas, Virginia for a severed penis after one of the most bizarre crimes in modern history.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_00: But today, we are looking beyond the sensational headlines and late night punchlines to tell the story almost nobody was talking about.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: But before we jump in, we do want to give a quick content warning.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: Today's episode includes discussions of domestic violence, sexual assault, physical and emotional abuse, and other forms of intimate partner violence.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: Some listeners may find these topics difficult to hear, so please take care of yourself and listen at your own pace.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: Now let's get into it.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: When people hear the name Lorena Bobbitt, they usually think about that one night, but that's not where this story begins.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: It starts thousands of miles away.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: Lorena Bobbitt was born in Ecuador before her family eventually settled in Venezuela.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: She grew up in a close-knit Catholic family where marriage was not viewed as temporary.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: You did not walk away because it got difficult.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: You prayed, you worked through it, and you stayed in the marriage, no matter what.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I mention that because it's easy for us, sitting here in 2026, to ask the question that people always ask.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_00: And we will get there, but before we answer that, we first have to understand who Lorena was long before she became a household name.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like so many immigrants chasing the American dream, she came to the United States hoping to build a better life.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: She settled in Northern Virginia and found work at a nail salon.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't glamorous, but it was hers.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: She was making friends, learning English, building independence.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: And then she met John Wayne Bobbitt.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: At first, he seemed funny, outgoing, confident.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: He was a former Marine with plenty of charm.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: And that's one of the things that makes abusive relationships so difficult to recognize from the outside.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like very few abusive people introduce themselves by saying, Hi, I'm gonna ruin your life.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: They need like a warning sticker on their forehead.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: No, literally, I mean, if they did, obviously nobody would ever date them, obviously.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: And abuse isn't usually one terrible day either.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_00: It is hundreds of tiny moments, little comments, insults, and other small acts of control and coercion.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: Each one seems manageable by itself until one day you realize you're living in a completely different relationship than the one you started.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: Lorena and John married in 1989.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_00: She wanted stability, a family, children, and again that American dream.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: Instead, she would later describe living in constant fear.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_00: At first, the warning signs were subtle.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_00: John had a temper.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_00: He can be jealous, possessive, and critical.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: Then the emotional amuse became more frequent.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: According to Lorena, he insulted her appearance, made her feel small, and constantly chipped away at her confidence.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: She was gorgeous.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: She was so pretty.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: I will not ever understand that.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: On one of the Howard Stern episodes that John later went on to after all of the fallout and the trials and everything, Howard Stern literally said, Hey, your ex-wife, she was no mutiny queen.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: She had a lot of acne on her face.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, Are you fucking kidding me?
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: You looked in the mirror, Howard?
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_00: Please, Howard, look in the mirror.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: Because gross.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: She was adorable.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely adorable.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_00: Gorgeous woman.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, so yeah, little by little, the woman who had crossed continents chasing a new beginning started losing pieces of herself.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_00: Then the violence escalated.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: According to Lorena's testimony, John physically assaulted her throughout the marriage.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: She described being punched, pushed, threatened, left with bruises that she desperately tried to hide.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: Long sleeves, makeup, and excuses.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: I bumped into something.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just clumsy.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_00: Unfortunately, those explanations are painfully familiar to anybody who is familiar with domestic violence survivors.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: And sadly, people often just accept those explanations because pressing it doesn't really seem appropriate.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: Most people think, well, if she wanted help, she would be more forthcoming.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_01: Well, people in those situations never are.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: They never are.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's a whole thing, and we'll get into it.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes for other people on the outside, it's just easier to accept that explanation than to imagine what is actually going on behind closed doors.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_01: It's true.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_01: You never want to think the worst, do you?
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you really don't.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_00: So, like I said, Lorena worked in a nail salon, and if you've ever had your nails done, you know that conversations happen.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: Clients talk, co-workers talk, and people vent.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: One day, someone noticed the bruises.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: They asked what happened.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_00: And at first, Lorena brushed it off, but eventually she admitted that John had assaulted her.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: And this client responded to her and said, You need to leave him.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: I know shelters.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: I have resources for you.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: Let me help you.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_00: But unfortunately, she stayed.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: And it wasn't because she wanted to, it was because she felt like she did not have a choice.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: One of the biggest misconceptions about abusive relationships is that they're abusive every minute of every day, but they usually are not.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_00: If they were, most people would leave after the first week.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: Instead, they follow a cycle.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_00: Things get bad, then they get better, promises are made, apologies are offered, and for a little while, life almost feels normal again.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: And then the cycle starts all over.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_01: And usually in those good times, they're extra loving and giving and good.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like they go from one extreme to the other to make up for the love bombing in between.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: The love bombing and the I'm so sorry, it'll never happen again.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: And that also creates a trauma bond where the victim is chasing that apologetic love bombing period because it's relief.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: And your brain wants that relief so bad from the pain.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_00: And according to Lorena, that is exactly what was happening inside their marriage.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_00: Some days John could still be the man she thought she'd married.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_00: Funny, affectionate, charming.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_00: Then, without warning, everything could change.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_00: Lorena later described feeling like she was constantly walking on eggshells, never knowing which version of her husband would walk through that front door.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: And that would be exhausting and demoralizing.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_00: Living in that kind of environment changes you.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: You become hyper-aware, you listen for footsteps, you analyze the sound of a door closing.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: You try to read someone's mood before they even say a word.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_00: Your nervous system never really gets a break.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_00: And after enough time, fear starts feeling like the norm.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_00: Now, according to Lorena's testimony, John's disappearances became another part of everyday life.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes he'd leave for hours, sometimes he would leave for days.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_00: No phone call, no explanation, no idea where he'd gone.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: Then he'd come home expecting life to continue like nothing had happened.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: And that uncertainty became another form of control.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: Because when somebody keeps you constantly guessing, you stop planning your own life and you can only react to theirs.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: Now, money was also another major source of conflict.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_00: And this really grinds my gears.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_00: This guy was just a scumbag on every level.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_00: So Lorena testified that she was working to keep them financially afloat while John frequently spent money without telling her.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: She later said that she would review their bank statements and find charges that she could not explain, like hotels, restaurants, and flowers.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_00: And she says those purchases were not related to me.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: I was not going to hotels and restaurants, and I was not receiving flowers.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: And she believed that those purchases were connected to other women.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like imagine working overtime only to realize that your paycheck is funding your husband's affairs.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_00: That's not just betrayal, it's humiliation.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and for as long as he's getting away with it, he's gonna keep doing it.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and it's just a total degradation of her self-worth.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: He worked slow, right?
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: He couldn't really keep a stable job.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: He was in the military.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_00: And he was discharged, but it's unknown why he was discharged.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: If it was dishonorable, honorable, we don't know, but I'm willing to bet that it was not an honorable discharge.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: He actually had punched somebody while he was in the military.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so a lot of drama there.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, so yeah, he is taking her money that she worked hard for in a nails line and it's spending it on other women, obviously.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: But then there was another layer to all of this: the isolation.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: Lorena's family was thousands of miles away.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_00: English was not her first language.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: She had a very small support system in the United States.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_00: And according to her testimony, John reminded her of that whenever he threatened deportation.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: Even if those threats couldn't legally happen the way she feared, fear does not always operate on facts.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_00: It operates on what you believe.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_00: When someone spends years convincing you that you have nowhere else to go, eventually you start believing them.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: Now, according to Lorena, the most painful part of the marriage was not visible to anybody else.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: She testified that John repeatedly forced her to have sex against her will.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: He consistently denied those allegations, of course, maintaining that their sexual relationship was consensual.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_00: Those competing accounts would become one of the most significant issues at trial.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_00: But regardless of what people believed, it's important to remember the cultural climate of the early 90s.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_00: Marital rate was still widely misunderstood.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_00: Even though many states had begun recognizing it under the law, public opinion often lagged far behind.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_00: Many people simply couldn't imagine a husband raping his wife.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_00: Today, most of us understand that marriage is not consent.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_00: Back then, that idea was still being argued.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think what I heard when I was watching that documentary was that back then it could only be marital rape if they were separated.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_00: Right, which is absolutely freaking insane.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_00: Because if you are in a relationship where you are being sexually assaulted, you are obviously under his control and you can't leave.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_00: You can't separate because why why would you stay to be sexually assaulted day in and day out?
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_01: It's to me, rape is rape.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_01: If somebody makes you have sex against your will, they are raping you.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_01: I don't care if it's your parent, husband, stranger, boss, rape is rape.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_00: Period point blank.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: And the law should reflect that.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_00: Now, as if all of that wasn't bad enough, Lorena also spoke publicly about another deeply painful experience.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: She said that John pressure her into ending a pregnancy.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_00: According to Lorena, it was something she never wanted.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_00: Given her Catholic upbringing and her dream of becoming a mother, she said it was one of the most emotionally devastating experiences of her life.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: And it's important to note that this comes from Lorena's own account and wasn't a central issue, litigated it during the criminal trial, but it certainly helps explain how she viewed the relationship as a whole and what a fucking scumbag he is.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_00: The nurse that was there at the abortion clinic with Lorena, she said that John was being really verbally abusive and taunting Lorena and saying horrific things that I I'm not going to repeat.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: But just the last things that you would ever want to say to somebody getting an abortion against their will.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_00: And it got so bad that they had to escort John away from Lorena because she was crying and shaking, and it was clear she didn't want to do it.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: Then why did the clinic go through with that?
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_00: I know, I know.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: She probably said do it because she felt like she had no choice.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_01: She was probably scared that he would try to end it.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, so when you put all these pieces together, the insults and bruises, the financial dependence and isolation, the sexual violence, the threats of deportation, the forced abortion, what emerges is not a handful of bad moments.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's not a marriage with ups and downs.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: It is a pattern.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: Today, domestic violence experts call it coercive control.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's a form of abuse designed to strip away someone's independence until leaving feels impossible.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's where people get hung up.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: They look at the ending without looking at everything that came before it.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: Understanding the context isn't the same as excusing what happened.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_00: But if we're going to understand crime, we have to understand people.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_00: And according to Lorena, everything finally came to a head during the early morning hours of June 23, 1993.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_00: It is late, just after midnight, the apartment is quiet.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_00: John Bobbitt comes home after a night of drinking.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: According to Lorena, she had no idea where he'd been.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: By that point she really did.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: John later testified that he came home and the couple had consensual sex before going to sleep.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: Lorena told a very different story.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_00: She testified that John raped her.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: Those two opposing accounts would become one of the most contested parts of both the public conversation and the legal proceedings.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: Afterward, John fell asleep.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_00: Lorena didn't.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: She later described feeling numb, disconnected, almost like she was watching herself from outside of her own body.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_00: And if you've ever experienced overwhelming trauma, you may recognize that feeling.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_00: Mental health professionals sometimes refer to it as disassociation.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's the brain's way of protecting itself when reality becomes too much to process all at once.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_00: Her defense would later argue that years of abuse combined with what she said happened that night pushed her into a temporary psychotic break.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_00: And we'll talk much more about that during the trial.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: But first, there was the kitchen.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_00: Lorena quietly got out of bed.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_00: She walked to the refrigerator for a glass of water.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_00: When she opened the refrigerator door, the light illuminated an eight-inch kitchen knife.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: She picked it up.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_00: Then, without saying a word, she walked back towards the bedroom.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: According to her testimony, she was not thinking about consequences.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: She was not imagining the headlines.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: She wasn't planning revenge.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: She later said she felt like she was not in control of her own body anymore.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_00: And within seconds, history changed.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_00: John woke up screaming.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_00: Lorena ran from the apartment, still holding the knife, still in shock.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: She got into her car and drove away.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_00: Knife in one hand, penis in the other.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, for real.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_00: While driving, she threw the severed organ into a grassy field alongside the road.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: Now imagine being that 911 dispatcher.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_00: Imagine trying to relay that information over the radio with a strained face, or being the first responding officer thinking, like there's no way this call is real.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_00: And then realizing, holy shit, it is.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_00: No, literally.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_00: So police located Lorena a short time later.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: According to reports, she was visibly distraught and told officers where she had thrown the penis.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_00: So now, officer and they're searching a field in the middle of the night with flashlights, looking for one of the most unusual pieces of evidence in criminal history.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: And eventually they found it.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: And officer actually stepped on it.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: That's how they found it.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_00: And get this.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_00: The field happened to me across from a 7-Eleven convenience store.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_00: So the officers took it to the convenience store and placed it on ice inside a 7-Eleven hot dog bag and then rushed it to the hospital.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember seeing the store clerk being obviously after his 15 minutes of fame, saying, I provided the ice and I never got a thank you from John.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_00: Whatever.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I kind of understand where he's coming from because that's the man's penis, right?
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like, hey, but you happen to be walking at the 7-Eleven across the field, and they bought ice from you.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_01: So you want he wants his thank you.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: A reward?
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, he won't do his 15 minutes of fame.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: He did.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_00: That is hilarious.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_00: You cannot make this stuff up, y'all.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_00: So surgeons performed a lengthy microsurger.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: Didn't look that lengthy.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: Me either.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: But nevertheless, they performed a microsurgical procedure to reattach the penis.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_00: And the operation was considered successful, although John later underwent additional procedures.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_00: So did you hear about um the penis enlargement?
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think so.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so they did they But I saw the picture of some.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, so they they did reattach it that night, and then years later, he got a procedure to enlarge it, and it ended up being like totally botched, totally botched.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm kind of like, well, is that karma?
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_00: Might be.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, so yeah, this is where all of those jokes that you have probably heard over the last 30 years came from.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_00: And by summarize, this story was everywhere.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_00: Local news picked it up first, then national television, and eventually newspapers and newscasts around the world.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like I said, it got to us.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_00: Within hours.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Arena Bombit had become one of the most recognizable names in America.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_00: Unfortunately, the conversation quickly centered on one shocking act, while the years leading up to it were often treated as an afterthought.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_00: Because once this story reached the media, it stopped being just a criminal case.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_00: It became a cultural phenomenon.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: Within days, you could not turn on a television without hearing the name Lorena Bobbitt.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: And if you were around back then, you remember it.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_00: Late-night comedians could not stop talking about it.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_00: Radio hosts built entire segments around it.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_00: There were cartoons, t-shirts, even songs.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: The case became a punchline overnight.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_00: And somewhere in the middle of all that, the actual people involved started to disappear.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: The abuse allegations were complicated.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: The marital rape allegations, uncomfortable, the psychological trauma, not nearly as entertaining.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_00: But the shocking act itself, that's what sold newspapers.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_00: And one thing that really stood out to me while researching this case was how quickly Lorena herself was reduced to a stereotype.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_00: She was not portrayed as a real and complicated human being with her own thoughts, feelings, and pain.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_00: She was portrayed as the crazy wife.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_00: Some coverage even leaned into stereotypes about Latina women, calling her fiery, hot-blooded, and emotional, as though that somehow explained everything.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_00: It's amazing how quickly a label can replace a person because once someone becomes the crazy wife, people stop listening to what they're actually saying and what actually happened.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: And then there was one media moment that made my skin crawl.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_00: Vanity Fair interviewed Loreta after the case.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: The article discussed domestic violence and sexual assault, very serious subjects.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_00: But for the accompanying photo shoot, she posed in a swimming pool wearing a bathing suit.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what the actual fuck?
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_00: A woman is talking publicly about surviving years of abuse, and somehow someone decides the best way to tell her story is to sexualize her.
• 24:29
  unknown: Yeah.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's a magazine.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_01: Pretty girl, nice body, how they get readers.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: That's all they're worried about.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_01: How they get readers.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_00: And Lorena actually got a lot of flack for that.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_00: People said that she was not a victim and that she wanted the attention.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_00: But that says a whole lot more about the media and the public than it does about Lorena, in my opinion.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_00: And while television audiences debated jokes, prosecutors were preparing for trial.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_00: And unlike many criminal cases, there wasn't much debate about what had happened.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_00: Lorena admitted she cut his dick off.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_01: Because not at that point.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_00: The question wasn't whether she did it.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_00: The question was why?
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_00: Was this calculated revenge or had years of trauma left her temporarily unable to understand what she was doing?
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_00: That distinction wouldn't determine everything.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_00: So in January 1994, by the time Lorena entered the courtroom, her name had already become part of American pop culture.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_00: The jury's job wasn't to decide whether she'd committed the act, she already admitted that.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_00: Their job was to determine her mental state in that exact moment.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_00: Under Virginia law, a defendant could be found not guilty by reason of insanity if, because of a mental disease or defect, they could not understand the nature of their actions or distinguish right from wrong.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_00: The defense argued that years of abuse had culminated in a temporary psychotic break.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_00: Not that Lorena hadn't done it, but that our mental state had been profoundly impaired.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the things that fascinates me the most about the trial is that it stopped being about one night.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_00: Instead, the courtroom became a window into the four years of that marriage.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_01: As it should.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_00: As it should.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_00: And Lorena took the stand and she testified about the repeated physical abuse.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_00: She described the emotional manipulation, the financial control, the threats of deportation, and the repeated sexual assaults.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_00: And surprise, surprise, surprise, John denied all of those allegations.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_00: His attorneys argued that Lorena acted out of jealousy and anger, not fear.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_00: So the jury was left with two completely different versions of the same marriage.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_00: Because so much of the alleged abuse happened behind closed doors, witness testimony became incredibly important.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_00: Lorena's co-workers described seeing bruises.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_00: Her friends testified that Lorena seemed frightened and withdrawn.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_00: Even John's own friends and co-workers testified against him.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_00: They stated, John told them, he liked having forceful, painful sex with women.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_00: That he liked to see and hear the pain he was inflicting.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_00: Just a monster.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like I don't understand people getting off on that period, but what people do behind closed doors if they're both consenting is their business.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_01: But why somebody would feel like telling friends and co-workers that is a good idea is beyond me.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_00: He was bragging.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: I know he was proud of it.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_01: He's bragging and proud of it because he thinks that people are going to be impressed.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, they're not.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_01: They're going to be repulsed.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_00: And that's exactly what happened.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_00: And that's exactly why they testified against him.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_00: Good.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_00: This one specific friendslash co-worker, when he testified, he said that while he was growing up, when he was a kid, his mother was a victim of domestic violence from his father.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_00: And he couldn't stomach that that was going on and happening to another woman.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_00: And so, yes, obviously, I'm glad that he came forward and testified.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_00: But there were so many other people who had an idea of what was going on and they didn't come forward.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just awful that you have to live through something like that and see another woman getting abused to have empathy.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like, why can't we all just have empathy?
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, so remember the client from the nails line who saw the brooms and she encouraged Lorena to leave.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, she actually did testify later on that she encouraged Lorena to leave long before June of 1993.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_00: And that mattered because it suggested concerns about the marriage existed long before the crime, before the television cameras, and before anyone knew this story would become international news.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_00: The defense also called mental health experts.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_00: Psychologists testified that Lorena was suffering from severe emotional trauma.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_00: They explained how prolonged abuse can fundamentally affect a person's thinking and emotional state.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_00: They also introduced the legal concept of temporary insanity.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_00: And this is one of those terms that is often misunderstood.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_00: Temporary insanity doesn't mean that someone simply got angry and just lost it.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's an extremely difficult legal defense to prove.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_00: The argument is that at the time of the offense, a person's mental state was so impaired that they could not fully understand the nature or wrongfulness of what they were doing.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_00: Juries reject this defense far more often than they accept it.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_00: The burden of proof is incredibly high.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_00: So John also testified, and he denied amusing Lorena.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_00: He denied raping her, and he denied controlling her financially.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_00: He maintained that she had acted intentionally and out of revenge, that she was just a jealous, crazy woman.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_00: So ultimately, the jury had to decide which explanation was more consistent with everything they'd heard over weeks of testimony.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_00: Outside the courthouse, meanwhile, the media circus never slowed down.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_00: News trucks lined the streets, every expression on Lorena's face became a headline.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_00: Every courtroom moment was dissected on television.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_00: So on January 21, 1994, after several hours of deliberation, the jury reached its verdict.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_00: Lorena Bobbitt was found not guilty by reason of temporary insanity.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_00: And in Seth prison, she was ordered to receive psychiatric treatment in a state hospital.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_00: She remained there for about 45 days before doctors determined she no longer required hospitalization.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_00: The verdict divided the country.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_00: Some people believed justice had been served, others believed justice had failed.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_00: But it's important to understand what the verdict actually meant.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_00: The jury wasn't saying what happened was acceptable.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_00: They were saying that based on the evidence, they weren't convinced Lorena was criminally responsible in the way Virginia law required at that moment.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_00: And that's, again, a very important distinction.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_00: But the legal story was not over, because just months earlier, John Bobbett had stood trial himself.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_00: He was charged in connection with the alleged sexual assault Lorena said occurred the night of the incident.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_00: He pleaded not guilty, and the jury acquitted him.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_00: So by early 1994, both criminal trials had ended.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_00: Legally, the cases were over.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_00: Publicly, they were just beginning.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_00: Because while the cameras would eventually leave, the consequences of this case would follow both of them for decades.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_00: The same event that turned Lorena into one of the most recognizable women in America also made John Bobbitt something he had always seemed to enjoy being a celebrity.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_00: John quickly began making the rounds on television.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_00: Talk shows, radio interviews, paid appearances.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_00: If someone wanted to hear his story, he was willing to tell it for a price.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_00: He appeared on the Howard Stern show, where the case was often treated less like a discussion about domestic violence and more like late-night entertainment.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_00: Eventually, he even appeared in adult films.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_00: One called John Wayne Bobbitt Uncut.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_00: And remember, I told you that he had gotten his penis enlarged and it was botched.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_00: He also appeared in another film called Frankenpenis.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_00: I do remember that now.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_00: I'll say it again.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_00: You cannot make this shit up.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, this man leaned into the notoriety of what most people would consider the most traumatic event of their entire lives.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_00: Whether people were laughing with him or at him, though, they were still paying attention.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_01: Right, you didn't care.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_00: Attention became an opportunity for him.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_00: And it's difficult to overstate how bizarre that period was.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_00: One person's trauma became another person's career.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_00: And the abuse allegations against John did not end with Lorena.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_00: Well, shocker.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_00: In the years after the trial, John Bobbitt was arrested on multiple occasions in cases involving allegations of assault and domestic violence against other women.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_00: No, right?
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_00: Those incidents obviously were not evidence in Lorena's case, and they don't change the legal outcome of it, but they do suggest that the behavior she described wasn't confined to a single relationship, and that obviously it wasn't fabricated.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_01: We're usually not confined to a single relationship.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_01: Men that treat women like that treat women like that.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_00: This was clearly a pattern of behavior, and this was John's MO.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_00: He was just an abusive, controlling monster.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_00: Meanwhile, for Lorena, the experience could not have been more different.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_00: She couldn't simply move on.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, imagine walking into a grocery store or a job interview or even a doctor's appointment.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like everybody knew who she was.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_00: Some people stared, some laughed, some whispered.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_00: And according to Lorena, finding steady employment became incredibly difficult because employers recognized her name as medium.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_01: No man's gonna employ.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_01: She'll walk into an interview and he'll immediately cross his legs.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_01: No, literally.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_00: So legally, Lorena's case had ended, but socially it never really did.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's something we don't talk about enough.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like sometimes public opinion becomes its own kind of wife sentence.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_00: And while I was researching this case, I learned something that completely floored me.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_00: According to Lorena, John continued trying to contact her for years after everything that had happened.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_00: She said that he sent letters and reached out through social media repeatedly.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_00: At one point, she even recalled him suggesting that they reunite and have a baby together so that they could capitalize on that notoriety.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_01: He's the one that needs to be mentally health-checked.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, like after all that, after he forced her to have an abortion, for him to proposition her, oh, let's get back together and have a baby so we can make money.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_01: For every guy to want to get back together with the person that chopped off their penis, they have to be delusionally, mentally, unstably insane.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_00: Completely worked.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like full.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_00: Insane.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_00: I couldn't believe it.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_00: I could not believe it.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_00: So she consistently said, of course, that she wanted absolutely nothing to do with that idea.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_00: She wanted nothing to do with John.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_00: She was not interested in reliving the most traumatic chapter of her life.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, really?
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_00: She wanted peace and distance.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_00: And most of all, she wanted to stop being known as Lorena Bobbit.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_00: And eventually, she reclaimed something that had been taken from her, her own name.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_00: Today she goes by Lorena Gallo, her maiden name.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_00: So at first glance, changing your last name might not seem like a huge deal, but names carry weight.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_00: And for decades, Bobbitt wasn't just a surname.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_00: It became a shorthand for a joke, a punchline, a cultural reference.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_00: So by returning to her maiden name Gallo, she wasn't erasing her past.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_00: She was reclaiming her identity.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I love that because nobody deserves to spend the rest of their life being reduced to their very worst moment.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_00: Now, instead of disappearing from public life, Loreta slowly began speaking publicly about domestic violence.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_00: She visited colleges, participated in interviews, and shared her story with survivors.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_00: Not because it was easy, but because she hoped someone else might recognize the warning signs before it was too late.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I have a tremendous amount of respect for that.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_00: It would have been completely understandable if she had chosen a quiet life and never spoken publicly again.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like that would have been very easy.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_00: But instead, she kept showing up to help others.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_00: And she also founded the Lorena Gallo Foundation, an organization dedicated to preventing domestic violence and supporting survivors.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_00: And that might be the most meaningful part of this entire story.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_00: Think about the different paths that these two people took afterward.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_00: One embraced the cheap, hollow, gross notoriety, and the other tried to make sure someone else's life did not end up looking like hers.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_00: And whether you agree with every aspect of this case or not, that is a pretty remarkable contrast.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, show a character.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_00: Right, exactly.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_00: Now, looking back, more than 30 years have passed since that night in June of 1993.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_00: And our conversations about domestic violence have changed dramatically.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_00: They are far from perfect, but they have changed.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_00: Movements like Me Too prompted many people to revisit cases that had once been dismissed or laughed away.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_00: Journalists began asking different questions.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_00: Instead of how could she do that?
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_00: Many started asking, what happened to her?
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_00: And that's progress.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_00: Not because context excuses violence, it does not.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_00: But because understanding context helps us understand people.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_00: And this is a lesson most of us can learn, myself included.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_00: Let's stop looking at labels and start looking at people.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_00: So when most people hear the name Loretta Bobbitt, they still think about one shocking act.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_00: But after spending weeks researching this case, I don't think that's the most important part of the story anymore.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_00: The part that stays with me is everything that happened before the bruises, the fear, the isolation, the sexual assault, the financial control, the threats.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_00: And whether you ultimately see Lorena as a victim, a defendant, a survivor, or some complicated combination of all three, I think we owe stories like this more than a punchline.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_00: Because when we reduce someone's life to a joke, we risk ignoring the suffering that came before it.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes that is the part of his story that matters most.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_00: This case really is a reminder that the loudest moment in someone's life is not always the one that explains them.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_00: And if there's one thing I hope people take away from today's episode, it's this.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_00: The most famous part of this case lasted only a few seconds.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_00: The years leading up to it are what deserve our attention.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_00: And that is the story of Lorraine Bobbitt.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_00: You have any final thoughts?
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_01: So I remember hearing that when it came to the case against John and the domestic violence, that she was not allowed to testify about anything that had happened over the entire marriage, only over like the month leading up to which it's wrong.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_01: It's bullshit, yeah.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_01: Because nobody suddenly takes a knife to their husband in any way, shape, or form if it hasn't been building up for a while.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_01: And and why that one month beforehand would be more relevant than the four years of marriage.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_01: I just that was so wrong to me was that the prosecution didn't get a chance to show how much they had built up.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_01: For four years, this woman took all of that abuse.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like Betty Broderick, you have people say, I'm surprised she didn't do it sooner.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_01: And the only reason this case became so well known and so sensationalized is because it was a penis.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_01: Had she stabbed him in the belly, stabbed him in the heart, cut off a finger, it would have been the same reason and the same thing that led up to it.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_01: But because it was a penis, that the jokes came out and it became sensationalized.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I think any woman that's been abused can identify with how she felt in that moment.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_01: And any woman that's been abused to that extent, I'm sure, is sympathetic to having a moment of great insanity because it drives you there.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_01: And you do want to do whatever you have to do in the moment to stop what's happening to you.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think that's what it was.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_00: I think after the years of being sexually assaulted and threatened and controlled and basically a prisoner and just in misery day in and day out, it changes you.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_01: I actually don't understand why it doesn't happen more often.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I hate to say it, but what I'm saying is when you're sexually abused, the penis would be what it's the weapon, right?
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_01: It is the weapon of sexual abuse.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_01: And so I do think he's he's lucky that he wasn't stabbed in the heart and that he was de-penised.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_00: It is a miracle that he lived because they said that he lost a third of the blood in his body.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_01: I heard that.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_01: But I also heard that he was so drunk that at first he didn't even think what happened was real.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like how messed up must you be?
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_00: And that was another hole in his side of things, is that, you know, if he was so very drunk, then how did he even remember?
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like at one point he does say, Oh, I don't remember because I was so plastered.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I couldn't perform sexually because I was so plastered.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_00: But then he also says, Oh, we had consensual sex, and I remember this happening and I remember that happening, but you didn't even know your dick was chopped off.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_01: And if and if you were already the type to enjoy torture sex and abuse your wife, I'm sure being drunk just elevated all of that.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_01: And and that's probably why it was the last straw for her.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_01: It was probably a particularly bad situation.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we'll get into that in the after show.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_00: But he was horrific to her.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely horrific.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, that is the story of Lorena Bobbitt, now Lorena Gallo.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_00: And thank you guys so much, as always, for listening to another episode of Deadly Divas.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_00: If you enjoyed today's episode, we would really appreciate it if you'd leave us a review wherever you're listening.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_00: It helps more people discover the show and it lets us keep bringing you these episodes every Friday.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_00: Be sure to follow us on social media.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_00: We are on TikTok and Facebook.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_00: And lastly, if you or someone you know is experiencing domestic violence, we will include resources in the show notes.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_00: Help is available and you do not have to face it alone.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_00: Until next time, be kind, look out for one another, don't victim blame.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_00: And as always, be divas.
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_01: Not totally.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_00: Bye.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_01: Bye.