Latest / Wired To Hunt Podcast / Ep. 878: Planning a Backcountry Whitetail Hunt with Remi Warren

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Ep. 878: Planning a Backcountry Whitetail Hunt with Remi Warren · Wired To Hunt Podcast

0:01
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your guide to
0:04
Speaker 1: the whitetail woods, presented by first Light, creating proven versatile
0:09
Speaker 1: hunting apparel for the stand, saddle or blind. First Light
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Speaker 1: Go Farther, Stay Longer, and now your host, Mark Kenyon.
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Speaker 2: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. This week on
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Speaker 2: the show, I'm joined by Remy Warren to discuss logistics
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Speaker 2: and tactics for planning a backcountry mountain whitetail hunt. All right,
0:36
Speaker 2: welcome back to the Wired to Hunt podcast, brought to
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Speaker 2: you by First Light, and today we're continuing our adventure series,
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Speaker 2: taking a look at different ways to bring adventure into
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Speaker 2: your white tail hunting season. And we've got a heck
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Speaker 2: of an idea here today and a heck of a guest.
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Speaker 3: As I just.
0:53
Speaker 2: Mentioned, joining me is Remy Warren. He's a guy that
0:58
Speaker 2: I'm sure many of you are familiar with. He's a
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Speaker 2: long time mountain hunting guide, expert, television host, podcaster, social
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Speaker 2: media extraordinary, one of the absolute best resources when it
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Speaker 2: comes to planning Western or big wild adventures hunting trips.
1:19
Speaker 2: But what a lot of folks probably don't realize that
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Speaker 2: he is also kind of a closet whitetail Guru. The
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Speaker 2: guy really enjoys going on whitetail hunts every single year,
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Speaker 2: but doing it in a pretty unique way different then
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Speaker 2: definitely different than your standard whitetail hunts. He is doing
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Speaker 2: this in the backcountry and in the mountains. He's doing
1:40
Speaker 2: backpacking trips for white tails. He's trekking in deep into
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Speaker 2: the wilderness for white tails. He's chasing them in very
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Speaker 2: different kinds of terrain, big mountains, rough country, and he's
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Speaker 2: killing great deer, having a lot of fun, having a
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Speaker 2: great experience, and coming back with very unique stories to tell.
2:01
Speaker 2: So if that sounds appealing to you, if you are
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Speaker 2: intrigued with the idea of backpacking for white tails, or
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Speaker 2: going into the back country or up into the mountains
2:11
Speaker 2: for a whitetail hunt, even if you're just going to
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Speaker 2: do day trips and camping down by the road, this
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Speaker 2: is the podcast for you. Remy Warren is going to
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Speaker 2: share his secrets, his tactics, his plans for pulling off
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Speaker 2: this kind of hunt. We talk through everything from how
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Speaker 2: to determine a region that should have white tails out west,
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Speaker 2: where to find these deer on the mountains in a
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Speaker 2: big wild forested landscape. We talk through planning logistics around
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Speaker 2: your camping. Should you backpack in, should you car camp?
2:41
Speaker 2: What kind of gear do you need for this kind
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Speaker 2: of hunt? What kind of conditions should you be prepared for.
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Speaker 2: We discuss a lot around tactics, the different specific styles
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Speaker 2: of hunting. He uses, the places he searches out deer,
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Speaker 2: how long, how long he stays in a given region
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Speaker 2: before moving to the next spot, uses calls and rattles,
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Speaker 2: you know what time of year is best for a
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Speaker 2: backcountry or whitetail hunt in the mountains.
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Speaker 3: All sorts of stuff like that.
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Speaker 2: If you want to try something new this year, this
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Speaker 2: is going to be a podcast you definitely want to
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Speaker 2: listen to. Remy is a heck of a resource, an
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Speaker 2: expert in so many ways, and someone who I think
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Speaker 2: has a lot to teach each and every one of us. So,
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Speaker 2: without any further ado, I think we should get to
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Speaker 2: my chat with mister Remy Warren. All right with me now?
3:36
Speaker 2: Is Remy Warren?
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Speaker 3: Welcome to the show? Remy? Yeah, man, thanks for having
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Speaker 3: me on. I appreciate it.
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Speaker 2: And you are someone who have wanted to have on
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Speaker 2: the show for a while now. It's kind of crazy.
3:48
Speaker 2: This thing's been around for twelve years or something, and
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Speaker 2: this is our first podcast, but it's it's perfect timing
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Speaker 2: because we're doing this series of whitetail adventure ideas. And
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Speaker 2: I have seen your whitetail hunts on YouTube for quite
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Speaker 2: a few years now, but they're very different than just
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Speaker 2: about any other white tail hunt out there.
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Speaker 3: I've heard you describe it as.
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Speaker 2: Big mountain white tail hunting. What do you what do
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Speaker 2: you mean when you say that, Maybe paint a picture
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Speaker 2: for us of what that looks like and what's the appeal.
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Speaker 4: Yeah, So, I mean the way that I kind of
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Speaker 4: like like to hunt white tails is essentially mountain hunting
4:30
Speaker 4: white tails, and I think that you know, white tails
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Speaker 4: kind of get lumped into the category of river bottom
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Speaker 4: bucks and it's like an out West like, you know,
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Speaker 4: no disrespect to white tail hunters, but like they get
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Speaker 4: a bad rapp right, Like mealder is king. But you know,
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Speaker 4: one of the things for me is like mealder hunting
4:48
Speaker 4: is tough and it's it's like also getting tags can
4:51
Speaker 4: be difficult, and I actually, I mean do I love
4:54
Speaker 4: chasing white tails, but I kind of like to do
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Speaker 4: it on my terms, Like I like to hunt them
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Speaker 4: where nobody else is hunting them or you know, where
5:04
Speaker 4: you kind of have a little bit of like a
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Speaker 4: different style hunt. Like I mean, I just know my
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Speaker 4: strength and the weaknesses. Not great at sitting for a
5:11
Speaker 4: long time. Like I think that like there's places I
5:14
Speaker 4: could go and be successful, but like it's just not
5:18
Speaker 4: my preferred method or style. And so I kind of
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Speaker 4: like key in on white tailed deer that are in
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Speaker 4: this like mountainous habitat I call it big mountain white
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Speaker 4: tails are like oftentimes I'll be hunting late season. I'm
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Speaker 4: like I target them. Well, I'll target during the archery
5:37
Speaker 4: as well, but primarily during the rut. And like I
5:41
Speaker 4: might be hunting in an area where the mountains go.
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Speaker 4: Let's say, like the valley floors three thousand feet the
5:47
Speaker 4: tops are like eight thousand feet, and I'm hunting them
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Speaker 4: around sixty five hundred feet, So like it's a pretty
5:53
Speaker 4: good climb. And like they're in places and pockets that
5:56
Speaker 4: you know most people might not think about. They're death
6:00
Speaker 4: only you know a kind of different habits and habitat
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Speaker 4: of like they live in the big timber, they live
6:05
Speaker 4: in these big mountains. They're surviving and breeding and like
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Speaker 4: doing their thing in these like backcountry areas and in
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Speaker 4: even like you mentioned some of the videos on them.
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Speaker 4: This is like a hunt that I do every year
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Speaker 4: in multiple different states or different places, and it's kind
6:22
Speaker 4: of like one of my personal hunts every year. Like
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Speaker 4: I film very few of them, which is I think
6:30
Speaker 4: it's partially because like I do hunt a lot of them,
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Speaker 4: like in wilderness areas too, so I don't share those
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Speaker 4: those hunts at all unless I can find like some
6:37
Speaker 4: good spots that are outside of wilderness, and then I
6:40
Speaker 4: kind of I kind of actually just do it as
6:42
Speaker 4: like a side thought, like oh maybe I'll go, like, yeah,
6:45
Speaker 4: bring my phone and do some filming, you know. And
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Speaker 4: like I've had my butt kicked sometimes and I've come
6:52
Speaker 4: out on top sometimes. Like it's just I don't know,
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Speaker 4: I love it, Like it's there's a certain challenge about it,
6:58
Speaker 4: but like it's just fun hunt.
7:00
Speaker 3: It's a lot of fun.
7:02
Speaker 2: I heard you say once that when you get up
7:05
Speaker 2: in a tree, all you want to do is climb back.
7:08
Speaker 3: Out of it.
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Speaker 2: But for so many whitetail hunters, it's the opposite, right.
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Speaker 2: The average white tailed guy just loves being up there.
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Speaker 2: Loves sitting in that kind of prototypical white tail hotspot
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Speaker 2: and seeing everything come alive around him. To that guy
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Speaker 2: or girl who's grown up doing that, what would be
7:27
Speaker 2: the pitch if you had to give him, like the
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Speaker 2: elevator pitch. You've got thirty seconds with him to convince
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Speaker 2: them to leave Iola, or leave Illinois, or leave Ohio
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Speaker 2: and try a mountain hunt once.
7:38
Speaker 3: What's that quick pitch.
7:42
Speaker 4: That's I mean to be honest, like it you just
7:45
Speaker 4: don't know what's going to happen, and it's like a
7:48
Speaker 4: big adventure. I feel like the adventure aspect of it
7:53
Speaker 4: is like kind of the rush of it. And if
7:58
Speaker 4: you like getting up in a tree like twenty feet,
8:00
Speaker 4: well you can get three thousand feet up in the mountains.
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Speaker 4: So it's like making views, you know, Like, yeah, I
8:07
Speaker 4: think the other the other pitch is like one of
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Speaker 4: the things that I, you know, like having guided a
8:13
Speaker 4: lot of hunters and I.
8:14
Speaker 3: You know, used to do a lot of like this big.
8:17
Speaker 4: Country white tail guiding too in a different area, and
8:21
Speaker 4: the thing was like a lot of these guys would
8:23
Speaker 4: that would come on these hunts, would like hunt twenty acres,
8:26
Speaker 4: ten acres, five acres, one hundred acre whatever, you know
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Speaker 4: what I mean, And I'm like, dude, we don't even
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Speaker 4: like blink that where you're hunting half a million acres,
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Speaker 4: Like you just can go anywhere, and it's like a
8:37
Speaker 4: very freeing experience to be like I'm white tail hunting
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Speaker 4: and I can go wherever I want, Like it's pretty cool.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I can see the appeal to that for sure.
8:45
Speaker 2: What's the if the best thing is the adventure, freedom
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Speaker 2: to roam, great views, lots of unexpected surprises, what's maybe
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Speaker 2: the flip side? What would you say might be the
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Speaker 2: downside or the worst side of this kind of thing.
9:00
Speaker 4: Kicks your butt, like mentally and physically the way that
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Speaker 4: I do it, Like, you know, there's not you aren't
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Speaker 4: gonna if you're used to sitting in a tree standing
9:10
Speaker 4: and seeing you know, hundreds of dear or whatever, it's
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Speaker 4: not gonna happen. Like there's days where you will see
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Speaker 4: no deer. There's days where you see dose and you're like,
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Speaker 4: I'm on, I'm in the zone. And then there's days
9:23
Speaker 4: where you see like a buck or whatever. And then
9:28
Speaker 4: there's days where you shoot like one hundred and fifty
9:30
Speaker 4: hundred and sixty inch buck, so like it's it's all
9:33
Speaker 4: over the place, right, Like there's times where you don't
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Speaker 4: even like come close to that age class, and then
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Speaker 4: there's times where you like just turn up giants like
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Speaker 4: it can happen and it's cool.
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Speaker 2: What kind of expectation then, would you say it's fair
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Speaker 2: to have?
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Speaker 3: Like is it?
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Speaker 2: And I know you've founded a bunch of different areas
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Speaker 2: out west for white tails and it varies from place
9:54
Speaker 2: to place, but you know, coming into a hunt like
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Speaker 2: this for someone new, should they expect like a safe
10:01
Speaker 2: assumption is like lower deer densities and that should be
10:04
Speaker 2: like how they go into it or what do you
10:06
Speaker 2: think they should be viewing as a success.
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Speaker 4: Yeah, I think like you expect lower deer densities. Finding
10:13
Speaker 4: like a mature type buck is like a pretty good
10:16
Speaker 4: feat in a lot of these areas. You have to
10:19
Speaker 4: realize too, like the densities are low, the tags are
10:23
Speaker 4: generally like over the counter kind of thing, and you know,
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Speaker 4: like the the country's big. So like I've been on
10:31
Speaker 4: like I'm trying to think, you know, just past hunts
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Speaker 4: and there's somewhere it was like it maybe hunted. I
10:37
Speaker 4: might be hunted seven days saw four bucks and ended
10:41
Speaker 4: up shooting a buck, you know, and it was like
10:46
Speaker 4: and you're like, you're you're pumped, and it's probably like
10:48
Speaker 4: a one type buck. You're like, that's a heck of
10:51
Speaker 4: a deer for that kind of hunt, Right, Sometimes the
10:55
Speaker 4: challenge just like finding buck and then other times too,
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Speaker 4: like you see quite a few, like you kind of
11:01
Speaker 4: get in them and you've got your like your zone.
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Speaker 4: But I think like the challenge is just like kind
11:07
Speaker 4: of finding deer in in some ways, like within that
11:11
Speaker 4: kind of terrain.
11:13
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, that's that's the thing is I feel like
11:15
Speaker 2: so many times when when you go from traditional whitetail
11:19
Speaker 2: country to a big mountain landscape out west, it the
11:24
Speaker 2: landscape is so different, the scale is so different.
11:28
Speaker 3: You know.
11:28
Speaker 2: It's one thing to go out there and be like, Okay,
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Speaker 2: this is the kind of country that elk live in.
11:32
Speaker 2: And there's so much talk about, you know, the kind
11:34
Speaker 2: of things that elk gravitate towards, where the kinds of
11:36
Speaker 2: habitat that mule deer gravitate towards. But there's not a
11:39
Speaker 2: lot of discussion around where white tails fit into that mix,
11:43
Speaker 2: just because, like you said, they're kind of looked down
11:45
Speaker 2: on out there now as many people care about them.
11:48
Speaker 3: So how do you go about just.
11:50
Speaker 2: Narrowing in and drilling in on.
11:52
Speaker 3: What would be a productive region?
11:54
Speaker 2: How do you get to a spot where it's like, oh, yeah,
11:56
Speaker 2: this is whitetail country versus elk versus mule deer versus
11:59
Speaker 2: anything else.
12:01
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a good question.
12:02
Speaker 4: So, like there's a couple of like habitat things that
12:06
Speaker 4: I key in on and I and I do. Like
12:10
Speaker 4: the one thing I could say is like, it takes time,
12:13
Speaker 4: and that's that's the hard part, is like you know,
12:15
Speaker 4: I'll go into it. You know, I've hunted a lot
12:17
Speaker 4: of new areas doing this, and it's like it takes
12:19
Speaker 4: time to kind of be like, well, where's the concentration
12:23
Speaker 4: a deer. I've utilized a lot of scouting in the past,
12:28
Speaker 4: like off season, and I try to time the hunt
12:31
Speaker 4: like for a certain kind of tactic.
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Speaker 3: I guess, like it's the tactic.
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Speaker 4: My tactic is, well, a couple of things, right, Like
12:39
Speaker 4: I could go into an area and I could go
12:41
Speaker 4: hunt that like traditional white tail country and there's probably
12:44
Speaker 4: white tails there. So if you have that kind of
12:48
Speaker 4: habit if you're in an area where there are white
12:50
Speaker 4: tails and it's like that traditional white tail type country.
12:53
Speaker 4: There's there's bucks and there's deer, maybe it's private whatever.
12:56
Speaker 4: Then the surrounding areas there's probably like a population of
13:00
Speaker 4: white tails that do not exist in that they exist
13:03
Speaker 4: in that mountain terrain. A couple of the features that like,
13:07
Speaker 4: you know, white tailers like they like that thicker stuff,
13:11
Speaker 4: those like in earlier season, those like north bass like
13:15
Speaker 4: a lot of cover, a lot of brush, a lot
13:16
Speaker 4: of other stuff. And let's say you've got one deer
13:19
Speaker 4: in five square miles, right, that's not that's not the
13:23
Speaker 4: conducive way to hunt that country. So what I do
13:26
Speaker 4: is I then find like that that habitat, you know,
13:30
Speaker 4: I do look for like these I kind of like
13:33
Speaker 4: focus on that top third of the mountain and then
13:37
Speaker 4: these like bench features that roll into south facing areas,
13:42
Speaker 4: and then within those zones, I look for areas with
13:47
Speaker 4: some kind of visibility clearing burn clear cut open grass
13:55
Speaker 4: like meadow something similar. You look for for like elk
13:58
Speaker 4: feeding areas. And I'm not necessarily utilizing that for like
14:05
Speaker 4: that being good habitat, but I'm utilizing it for the
14:08
Speaker 4: time of year that I'm hunting I'm catching, I'm like
14:11
Speaker 4: coning in on their behavior of deer that are cruising
14:16
Speaker 4: and then they're inevitably going to cross those openings and
14:20
Speaker 4: that allows me like that advantage. So it's deer that
14:22
Speaker 4: you can never find any other time of year. They're
14:25
Speaker 4: looking for does, and so I try to target pockets
14:29
Speaker 4: of doughs, areas where there's visibility, and then like you know,
14:33
Speaker 4: and then timing of the rut to catch deer that'll
14:37
Speaker 4: be moving because you have a higher likelihood of like
14:39
Speaker 4: actually spotting them.
14:41
Speaker 2: Is there any kind of Is there any kind of
14:45
Speaker 2: separation between where you're gonna find mule deer versus where
14:49
Speaker 2: you're gonna find white tailed deer? Because I know there's
14:51
Speaker 2: obviously some overlap, But when someone is looking and they're thinking, well,
14:56
Speaker 2: maybe I'm gonna hunt Montana, maybe Colorado, maybe Idaho, maybe Wyoming,
15:00
Speaker 2: maybe wherever, and they're looking at all this country and
15:03
Speaker 2: they're trying to think, all right, I can get a
15:05
Speaker 2: white tail tag. You know, how do I discern between
15:10
Speaker 2: where these two species might be? Is it gonna be
15:12
Speaker 2: one the same? And I'm just gonna have to go
15:14
Speaker 2: out there and make sure I'm I'm paying attention to
15:17
Speaker 2: what kind of deer's cruising across that opening. I'm just wondering,
15:21
Speaker 2: as they're trying to like narrow this down a little
15:23
Speaker 2: bit more, is there any way to discern between the two?
15:26
Speaker 4: There is, like some of it you can't discern necessarily
15:30
Speaker 4: like on a map all the time. But like the
15:32
Speaker 4: mule of your habitat is often more open, and the
15:35
Speaker 4: white tail habitat that I'm hunting is very closed in,
15:37
Speaker 4: like really thick. It's got more like not they won't
15:43
Speaker 4: find meal here in that country. But like the places
15:46
Speaker 4: that I often go where I'm like consistently successful getting
15:50
Speaker 4: white tails, like I heart. I mean, maybe I've seen
15:53
Speaker 4: a meal deer two, you know, but it's like it's
15:57
Speaker 4: it's like the white tails run the show there. And
16:00
Speaker 4: you will find places like that, you know, how to
16:03
Speaker 4: discern that can be a little difficult, And some of
16:06
Speaker 4: these places, like, dude, I have a state that I
16:08
Speaker 4: hunt in and I originally went there to hunt mule
16:11
Speaker 4: deer and like got into a pocket of white tails.
16:14
Speaker 4: It was like, shit, I don't think anybody's hunting white
16:15
Speaker 4: tails here. And then like have killed some of my
16:18
Speaker 4: best bucks in there because it was just like for
16:22
Speaker 4: some reason, it's you know, white tail habitat, Like there's
16:25
Speaker 4: good bottoms like you think of like traditional white tail
16:28
Speaker 4: habitat that you'd find anywhere like those those draws, those
16:31
Speaker 4: like crick bottoms, like willows, like all the like thicker
16:38
Speaker 4: type terrain like good brows, whereas like Mealer want more open,
16:42
Speaker 4: rocky like see and run kind of terrains where it's
16:46
Speaker 4: like you've got your white tail habitat like good brows
16:50
Speaker 4: for white tails, and like Mealer more in that sage
16:54
Speaker 4: a mahogany kind of like open stuff.
16:57
Speaker 3: And then also like the meal.
16:59
Speaker 4: Deer will gravitate toward those larger open areas, whereas like
17:03
Speaker 4: the the white tails are more in that like thick fringe.
17:05
Speaker 4: So I look for like pretty well timbered areas to
17:09
Speaker 4: be honest, like, and I wouldn't necessarily go target that
17:12
Speaker 4: from meal there.
17:13
Speaker 2: Yeah, you mentioned that your tactics typically apply to that
17:19
Speaker 2: cruising phase.
17:21
Speaker 3: I think from a lot of.
17:22
Speaker 2: Folks I've talked to in the past, the white tail
17:24
Speaker 2: rot might be a little bit different out there by
17:26
Speaker 2: you guys than it is back here in the east.
17:28
Speaker 2: What's your window out there when you see that best
17:31
Speaker 2: running activity for white tails, but like date range.
17:34
Speaker 4: I like the first like first part of November, okay
17:38
Speaker 4: if I can, if I had like my druthers, but
17:41
Speaker 4: you know, I end up hunting like a lot later
17:44
Speaker 4: just because of like schedule ized, like I normally hunt
17:46
Speaker 4: like around Thanksgiving. And I still you'll still catch them,
17:49
Speaker 4: but you have to know where like the pockets, like
17:51
Speaker 4: where does live because they start to like get locked in.
17:57
Speaker 4: Once they've like once they've locked down with a dough,
18:00
Speaker 4: you're done, Like that's it. I like the cruising phase though,
18:03
Speaker 4: because I utilize I utilize calling a lot, like and
18:07
Speaker 4: maybe that's not something that everybody does everywhere, but like
18:09
Speaker 4: I rattle and I call, and so like that cruising phase,
18:15
Speaker 4: like bucks are really honed into that, and you can
18:18
Speaker 4: kind of catch those like big bucks moving because there's
18:22
Speaker 4: like I said, you're you're in an area.
18:23
Speaker 3: That maybe maybe you're hunting a canyon that's like.
18:25
Speaker 4: Ten miles long, and there's you know, I don't know,
18:29
Speaker 4: ten fifteen does in there whatever, and there's maybe a
18:32
Speaker 4: couple buck whatever I don't remembering twenty does I don't know,
18:36
Speaker 4: and there's maybe two or three bucks that are like
18:37
Speaker 4: in and out of that and they're just doing hot
18:40
Speaker 4: lapse like looking for does and so like that visual
18:45
Speaker 4: queue you know, I know work, but that sound can travel.
18:49
Speaker 4: And I do like a lot of rattling, a lot
18:52
Speaker 4: of calling, a lot of grunting, like dough bleeding, and
18:56
Speaker 4: I don't like no such thing as over calling it
18:59
Speaker 4: for me, like I hammer on those things. Like my
19:02
Speaker 4: strategy is get to places where I can glass, and
19:05
Speaker 4: I'm always calling, like rattling, calling right and calling, stopping moving.
19:08
Speaker 4: I kind of treat it like almost like a l hunt,
19:11
Speaker 4: like in a in a weird way, like and like
19:14
Speaker 4: people that have never done that, you know, they're like
19:18
Speaker 4: calling doesn't work, and like it works here because these
19:20
Speaker 4: dough like these bucks might not find a deer this year,
19:22
Speaker 4: and if they can hear one, they will come in
19:25
Speaker 4: hot and and it's fun, like that's it's it's a
19:28
Speaker 4: lot of fun, Like that's my favorite part about it.
19:31
Speaker 2: You say, like you're calling all the time, Like give me,
19:35
Speaker 2: like how many times in an hour.
19:36
Speaker 3: Are you calling constantly?
19:39
Speaker 4: Like if I'm sitting in glassing, like dude, I hit
19:41
Speaker 4: the rattle and then I do like grind, grunt, grunt,
19:46
Speaker 4: and like dough bleats, estris calls, you know, and then
19:52
Speaker 4: I'll sit for like a few minutes, five minutes whatever
19:55
Speaker 4: glass hit the calls again, whether it's a rattle or
19:58
Speaker 4: grunt or whatever, you know, because like they're probably moving
20:03
Speaker 4: and the deer that like I've sat in areas where
20:07
Speaker 4: you know, i'll sit, I'll go, I'll pick a spot.
20:09
Speaker 4: I'm like, okay, this is a guy like a little
20:10
Speaker 4: bit of an open and it's an area where I know,
20:12
Speaker 4: like I know i've seen does I know does live here?
20:16
Speaker 1: You know?
20:16
Speaker 4: If I had more patients, I probably, but i just
20:18
Speaker 4: like don't have a patien So I'm like, okay, let's
20:20
Speaker 4: pull them out. And sometimes it's just enough to get
20:23
Speaker 4: them to step out where you can see them. It's
20:25
Speaker 4: not necessarily like trying to get him to come in.
20:27
Speaker 4: The younger deer come in. But then again, like we've
20:31
Speaker 4: killed bucks that you know are just like big old bucks,
20:35
Speaker 4: right it up, ready to fight. So I'll do that,
20:39
Speaker 4: like I'll do a call sequence. Maybe I'm gonna glass
20:41
Speaker 4: this area for thirty minutes an hour, I don't know,
20:44
Speaker 4: maybe it's maybe longer, and I'll sit there, set up ready,
20:48
Speaker 4: like I've had deer walk into five yards, you know,
20:53
Speaker 4: and then I'll do that, Like I actually I bought
20:56
Speaker 4: climber stand because there's a couple of places that I'm like, dude,
20:59
Speaker 4: it would probably be convenient to like do that while
21:02
Speaker 4: I'm there, but I haven't utilized it yet, but uh yeah,
21:07
Speaker 4: So I'll do that, and then I'll like continue hiking,
21:10
Speaker 4: get to the next vantage hall and sometimes like it's
21:14
Speaker 4: just to like get those deer.
21:16
Speaker 3: To to do a different route.
21:19
Speaker 4: There's a lot of little tricks to this, like finding
21:22
Speaker 4: these bucks and getting these bucks to do what you
21:24
Speaker 4: want that you don't employ other places. Like one of
21:29
Speaker 4: the strategies that I use is like, if I know,
21:33
Speaker 4: let's say there's a bunch of deer tracks on this
21:35
Speaker 4: one heel and there's like one opening, I always get
21:38
Speaker 4: like a cross from it. Sometimes what I'll do is
21:41
Speaker 4: like I'll go over there if there's like a lot
21:43
Speaker 4: of snow, and I'll walk the edge of the the
21:48
Speaker 4: cover and then in the middle, I walk across, and
21:52
Speaker 4: then I walk back down to myself and I'll sit
21:54
Speaker 4: there and I'll watch that because those deer will those
21:57
Speaker 4: those deer will stay in the cover and then they
21:59
Speaker 4: hit your trail and then they'll follow that trail and
22:01
Speaker 4: they'll come out in the open.
22:01
Speaker 3: And they will shoot them.
22:03
Speaker 4: You know, Like there's a lot of crazy strategy that
22:05
Speaker 4: people don't utilize other places because it's just like the
22:08
Speaker 4: path of least resistance, like in the snow, you know.
22:13
Speaker 4: And that's like one of the strategies that I use,
22:16
Speaker 4: you know, like little tricks like that you probably don't
22:18
Speaker 4: use on white tails anywhere else. Yeah, a lot of calling,
22:22
Speaker 4: a lot of like weird stuff like that.
22:34
Speaker 2: What about wind when you're when you're setting up in
22:37
Speaker 2: these kind of glass slash calling ambush locations, are you
22:43
Speaker 2: thinking about wind in that.
22:45
Speaker 3: You know set up? How's that?
22:47
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm definitely like the wind's big. But you know,
22:50
Speaker 4: I think most of the time, like you're I'm across
22:53
Speaker 4: like I'm across canyon glassing. If I'm rifle hunting, archery hunting,
22:58
Speaker 4: like you'd have to, it's like a whole nother that's
23:00
Speaker 4: a whole another beast, right, And I do that, and
23:02
Speaker 4: we do that in September, and we're targeting like summer
23:07
Speaker 4: range bachelor bucks in a way like alpine bucks, which
23:11
Speaker 4: is a whole completely different game, but like late season
23:14
Speaker 4: mostly rifle hunting or like bow hunting, but like you know,
23:19
Speaker 4: utilizing the calling to bring them in. And yeah, it's
23:22
Speaker 4: it's mostly getting a cross canyon and then like generally
23:25
Speaker 4: your wind, like you're working into the wind as you're
23:28
Speaker 4: still hunting to like working into the wind. The whole
23:31
Speaker 4: game is built on working into the wind. And then
23:35
Speaker 4: if you know, the nice thing about having all that
23:36
Speaker 4: room is like if the wind's not great, you can
23:38
Speaker 4: move and so like continually like where I think the
23:42
Speaker 4: deer might be, just making sure that that wins right,
23:45
Speaker 4: but I kind of just start that hiking walking into
23:48
Speaker 4: the wind. And then yeah, I mean another strategy that
23:53
Speaker 4: like it utilized a lot that's very successful in this
23:57
Speaker 4: kind of country is like fresh snow and tracking deer,
24:01
Speaker 4: and I utilize that a lot, like you know, and
24:04
Speaker 4: sometimes you end up a long ways away, but that's
24:06
Speaker 4: how we how I actually kind of find good areas
24:10
Speaker 4: is like covering a lot of country in fresh snows,
24:13
Speaker 4: I mean track like it's a dead giveaway of like
24:16
Speaker 4: this is a this is a concentration of deer here.
24:19
Speaker 2: So so imagining that situation kind of going a little further.
24:22
Speaker 2: If you're if you're new to an area, I guess,
24:24
Speaker 2: and you don't know this spot yet there's snow on
24:26
Speaker 2: the ground. Is that maybe the starting point other than
24:29
Speaker 2: I'm sure scouting picking out likely areas, but then just
24:33
Speaker 2: cover a lot of ground fine tracks. Are you walking?
24:37
Speaker 2: Is it just walk ridge lines? Or are you walk
24:39
Speaker 2: walking draws or you know, how do you cover ground
24:43
Speaker 2: the best? When it comes to white tails?
24:45
Speaker 4: Mostly like yeah, like walking ridge lines, it was like
24:49
Speaker 4: walking in the bottom You'll you'll see deer, but it's
24:53
Speaker 4: loud and it's like hard to walk in often, but yeah,
24:56
Speaker 4: I'm looking for that sign. Sometimes I will walk the
24:58
Speaker 4: bottoms because I know that they reason they're in and
25:02
Speaker 4: you know, make moves, you know, so I'll walk those bottoms,
25:06
Speaker 4: I mean, and it it might be like a weird
25:08
Speaker 4: tactic as well, like there's a lot of stuff that
25:11
Speaker 4: probably doesn't line up with any other white tail anty.
25:13
Speaker 4: But like if there's an area that I'm like, this
25:15
Speaker 4: is a thick area that like looks like good white
25:18
Speaker 4: tail habitat, like you know you'll get you'll get into
25:21
Speaker 4: this like spot. Its like there's a little bench and
25:23
Speaker 4: there's like water in it, there's like tall grass, there's
25:27
Speaker 4: I don't know you know, like different kind of like
25:30
Speaker 4: you'll be in pines and it's got like willows or
25:33
Speaker 4: something else, you know, something like that. You're like, oh,
25:35
Speaker 4: this looks this looks like a good spot, and you
25:39
Speaker 4: see you start to see sign or whatever. Maybe you
25:41
Speaker 4: don't even see sign, Like I'll walk through that area
25:43
Speaker 4: and knowing like, yeah, I'm still hunting. But if I
25:46
Speaker 4: blow a deer out, it's actually not a bad thing
25:49
Speaker 4: because I kind of will we'll learn something about that
25:52
Speaker 4: area and those deer of like, okay, there's deer in here.
25:54
Speaker 3: I bumped them.
25:56
Speaker 4: A lot of these deer I have never seen people,
25:58
Speaker 4: so it's like cool, they're just like they run off
26:01
Speaker 4: and stop. And I have the call handy too, so
26:04
Speaker 4: like if I bump a deer, I just hit that
26:05
Speaker 4: call immediately and then and then knowing like okay, now
26:10
Speaker 4: I know that this is like a hole, this is
26:12
Speaker 4: an area where deer living. I can then kind of
26:16
Speaker 4: extrapolate other strategies of like getting up on the ridge
26:20
Speaker 4: glassing into here. But like step one, find the deer
26:23
Speaker 4: and that could take sometimes days sometimes immediately like where
26:27
Speaker 4: are these deer pockets at? And this step two is
26:29
Speaker 4: like strategizing and like actually employing tactics to like be
26:33
Speaker 4: able to kill the deer. So, like bumping deer is
26:37
Speaker 4: not bad. It's just because you got to find them,
26:41
Speaker 4: like and you just if you're worried about blowing something
26:43
Speaker 4: out all the time, you're never going to find them.
26:46
Speaker 2: To be honest, you said that some of these deer
26:49
Speaker 2: maybe never seen people. Yeah, that kind of ties into
26:54
Speaker 2: one of the things I've been curious about, which is,
26:56
Speaker 2: I know that white tails don't get nearly the attention
27:00
Speaker 2: out there by you as they do back here. By
27:02
Speaker 2: may not as much pressure for white tails, but there
27:05
Speaker 2: are a lot of guys out there chasing elk, chasing
27:07
Speaker 2: mule deer, et cetera. Do white tails simply exist in
27:12
Speaker 2: places where everybody else is ignoring and so you just
27:15
Speaker 2: don't have mule deer and elk hunters spending any time there.
27:18
Speaker 2: So does that lead to these deer just not being
27:20
Speaker 2: pressured or are there elk hunters and mule deer hunters
27:22
Speaker 2: all around too and everything's getting pressured?
27:26
Speaker 3: You know?
27:26
Speaker 4: It's it's it depends where you are. But a lot
27:30
Speaker 4: of the places it's like real bad el cabitat because
27:35
Speaker 4: it's so thick and be like it's hard to hunt.
27:38
Speaker 4: It's not like conducive for killing out there's not really
27:41
Speaker 4: any meal deer, and so there's not really a reason
27:43
Speaker 4: that people go to some of those places, and like
27:46
Speaker 4: a lot of people that might not even like realize
27:49
Speaker 4: that there's white tails there or really be like keen
27:52
Speaker 4: on diving in and hunting them.
27:54
Speaker 3: I guess.
27:55
Speaker 4: So that's one of the reasons that like I'll target
27:58
Speaker 4: those areas where I find that there's going to be
28:01
Speaker 4: fewer people, and I also try to find those seasons.
28:06
Speaker 4: Like the cool thing about a lot of white tail hunts,
28:08
Speaker 4: and this is probably across the country, but like there's
28:11
Speaker 4: kind of more liberal seasons when it comes to white
28:13
Speaker 4: tail hunting. So like the elk season might be a week,
28:15
Speaker 4: like the oliar season might be a week, the white
28:17
Speaker 4: tail season could be like a month, And so you
28:20
Speaker 4: can get into the mountains like when there's no one
28:22
Speaker 4: else hunting another animal. And oftentimes because there are a
28:26
Speaker 4: lot of like state wide general tags and stuff like that,
28:29
Speaker 4: all target areas where white tail seasons open, nothing else is,
28:33
Speaker 4: and you really limit like the amount of people in
28:36
Speaker 4: those particular areas.
28:37
Speaker 3: So it's like not a great area for that stuff.
28:39
Speaker 4: Anyways, there's white tails and there's no one else out there,
28:41
Speaker 4: and that makes a big difference.
28:43
Speaker 2: Yeah, that makes sense. Do So I've done a little
28:47
Speaker 2: bit of elk hunting. I've you know, one of the
28:50
Speaker 2: big things I learned out there hunting elk in the
28:52
Speaker 2: mountains was that there was this kind of predictable pattern
28:56
Speaker 2: with elk going kind of up and down elevation based
28:59
Speaker 2: on time of day.
29:00
Speaker 3: What's going on? Do white tales do that out there?
29:02
Speaker 2: Do you see an up and down movement or do
29:04
Speaker 2: they kind of have an elevation they stick at and
29:06
Speaker 2: that you said, they've got a hole and they stay
29:08
Speaker 2: in that hole quote unquote. What have you seen from
29:11
Speaker 2: that kind of standpoint?
29:13
Speaker 4: Yeah, So, like the does don't often move much, and
29:17
Speaker 4: the bucks move an incredible amount. I've seen like over
29:21
Speaker 4: the years, like I've I've actually which is surprising because
29:24
Speaker 4: like it's hard to figure out their pattern in a way,
29:29
Speaker 4: and I just like I've randomly found the same deer
29:32
Speaker 4: in like certain areas. So they'll like they'll be up
29:36
Speaker 4: on the top over here. Like let's say it's a
29:39
Speaker 4: i don't know, like a valley. There's like say there's
29:41
Speaker 4: a valley with a crick in the bottom, and then
29:43
Speaker 4: there's a bunch of like a big area think of
29:45
Speaker 4: like I don't know, fifteen miles across or something like that,
29:48
Speaker 4: and then there's like multiple drainages, and then you've got like,
29:52
Speaker 4: you know, different habitat types, and you've got like pocketed
29:54
Speaker 4: doze up in here and near this clear cut and
29:57
Speaker 4: then pocket a doe whatever. And the bucks will be
30:01
Speaker 4: like up in that high kind of mid elevation and
30:04
Speaker 4: they'll cruise, they'll drop down, they'll cross valley, and then
30:07
Speaker 4: they'll kind of like they move kind of fairly quickly
30:10
Speaker 4: up into that other elevation and then they kind of
30:12
Speaker 4: cruise that you know, trying to hit every single pocket
30:16
Speaker 4: is like looking for dose. And I do think that
30:18
Speaker 4: they kind of make like in the wind circuits that
30:21
Speaker 4: are real big like I've seen. And this is just
30:24
Speaker 4: like random coincidence, I think, because I had a buddy
30:27
Speaker 4: hunting and I found like a a weird and it
30:31
Speaker 4: was like a deformed buck. It's like one horn and
30:33
Speaker 4: then the other horn was like really like, there's no
30:36
Speaker 4: way that there's two deer that look like this, And
30:39
Speaker 4: I saw it in one particular spot and later that
30:44
Speaker 4: day he saw it in another spot. And we kind
30:47
Speaker 4: of always assumed that like these deer kind of make
30:49
Speaker 4: these just based off like tracks and stuff.
30:53
Speaker 3: Where these these bucks would.
30:54
Speaker 4: Be going, and then you know it end up being
30:58
Speaker 4: like a long ways away and seeing that same buck,
31:02
Speaker 4: and like the other thing is like the where the
31:05
Speaker 4: does will be is a hundred like so consistent. Like
31:08
Speaker 4: once you find those dough pockets, they are very tight,
31:12
Speaker 4: like they don't they don't move a lot. They'll move
31:15
Speaker 4: down the mountain and up the mountain, but within like
31:17
Speaker 4: the same drainage, but the bucks will go like freaking miles,
31:23
Speaker 4: Like it would be cool to caller one of these
31:25
Speaker 4: kind of deer and just see the like hot laps
31:27
Speaker 4: that we call them that they do. But then they
31:29
Speaker 4: can be pretty consistent, like I've killed a deer a
31:33
Speaker 4: year after I saw it within like the same two
31:36
Speaker 4: days a year later, checking the same dough pockets. So
31:39
Speaker 4: like they have huge like the bucks have huge patterns
31:41
Speaker 4: and the does have like micro patterns. And then as
31:45
Speaker 4: the rut like as weather changes, where those doughs congregate
31:48
Speaker 4: within their zone changes. But I think like they couldn't
31:51
Speaker 4: survive any other way, like I just think that they're
31:54
Speaker 4: they're they're they would vanish off that landscape because I
31:57
Speaker 4: think that they just get too spread out. So the
32:00
Speaker 4: way that they survived is like the does hold and
32:03
Speaker 4: the bucks move, and that allows like the bucks to
32:05
Speaker 4: cover all that country and find the few doughs. But
32:08
Speaker 4: kind of knowing those pockets is key, and that's like
32:12
Speaker 4: the you can if you've got like a couple good
32:16
Speaker 4: live baits as I like to call them, like, you're
32:18
Speaker 4: you're gonna find bucks eventually.
32:21
Speaker 2: Well, what's kind of cool about what you're saying is
32:24
Speaker 2: it's actually exactly the same as hunting here, except like
32:29
Speaker 2: the scale is just increased ten x. You know, like
32:32
Speaker 2: right here you might have deer that live in a
32:34
Speaker 2: square mile. But you know what all the research has
32:37
Speaker 2: shown during the rut is that, you know, there's these
32:40
Speaker 2: dough hot spots. And people like to say that you
32:42
Speaker 2: can't pattern a buck during the rut, but actually collared
32:45
Speaker 2: studies out here have found that, you know, they have
32:47
Speaker 2: a handful of hot spots that they return to, they
32:50
Speaker 2: cycle back to over and over again during the rut
32:53
Speaker 2: looking for those does, and it's just happening in a
32:56
Speaker 2: much tighter area because these deer don't need to travel
32:58
Speaker 2: very far because there's food, cover, security, and dose, you know,
33:03
Speaker 2: every one hundred acres here, while with you same thing,
33:06
Speaker 2: you're just stretching it out to ten square miles maybe
33:08
Speaker 2: you're a ten mile long canyon. So it's it's interesting
33:13
Speaker 2: how deer in certain ways deer.
33:15
Speaker 3: Deer are deer.
33:16
Speaker 2: Just the habitat is a little bit different, and I
33:18
Speaker 2: imagine there's you know, I'm imagining there's pinch points and
33:22
Speaker 2: funnels out there by you just like here, it just
33:25
Speaker 2: looked different, right, I'm sure like saddles and stuff are
33:27
Speaker 2: the probably the name of the game for you on
33:28
Speaker 2: that kind of thing.
33:29
Speaker 4: Right, Yeah, yeah, absolutely, Like saddles are big, like those
33:33
Speaker 4: like benches and then the benches above like multiple draws
33:38
Speaker 4: places where the wind kind of comes up from, like
33:40
Speaker 4: the dough pockets. Yeah, Like I've got a couple of
33:43
Speaker 4: places that it's thick, and it's like we I find
33:47
Speaker 4: a lot of like my intel based off of like
33:49
Speaker 4: when it snows, and then you just have to remember
33:52
Speaker 4: like these these these places that you find because you
33:55
Speaker 4: can kind of like learn a lot from following these deer,
33:59
Speaker 4: which is a cool thing about this kind of thing
34:00
Speaker 4: is you can follow deer and see what they do.
34:03
Speaker 4: I mean, there's been a lot. Two years ago I
34:05
Speaker 4: found I was hunting there. It was like snowing all night,
34:08
Speaker 4: stopped right at sun sun up, you know, cut a
34:12
Speaker 4: fresh track followed it. I think I hiked like seven
34:16
Speaker 4: or eight miles, but I knew like where a dough
34:19
Speaker 4: pocket was and that buck was going right to it,
34:22
Speaker 4: and so like through pass like being like okay, I
34:25
Speaker 4: bet you he's bedded up here. And sure enough, Like
34:28
Speaker 4: I was with a buddy and he's like, dude, we've
34:29
Speaker 4: been hiking for seven miles on it, and I was like,
34:31
Speaker 4: I know he's gonna be on this bench, like this
34:33
Speaker 4: is where they bed because I've done this like same route,
34:36
Speaker 4: like the same path, the same thing like years before,
34:39
Speaker 4: and like it's it's cool to see where it's like, okay,
34:43
Speaker 4: they're how they move. It's like they run the ridges
34:47
Speaker 4: they you know then like those those shorter bowls and stuff.
34:50
Speaker 4: They like they kind of crossed through that, but you
34:52
Speaker 4: know it's like okay, it's because the wind you know,
34:54
Speaker 4: falls that way or whatever. And then they get into
34:56
Speaker 4: these pockets where it's like okay, this ridge this little
34:58
Speaker 4: bump is a little thicker, he's going to betted up here.
35:01
Speaker 4: And you know, it's like just a larger scale, but
35:04
Speaker 4: they have very specific habits that are I'm sure like universal.
35:09
Speaker 3: To white tails.
35:10
Speaker 4: It's just like a different elevation game doing it.
35:13
Speaker 1: You know.
35:15
Speaker 2: So you said that you like to find advantage. Call
35:18
Speaker 2: call call, move to another vantage, call call call.
35:21
Speaker 3: Yeah.
35:22
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you said like thirty minutes to an hour.
35:24
Speaker 2: But I just want to make sure, like what's your
35:25
Speaker 2: typical amount of time you'll give a spot, and like
35:30
Speaker 2: how much time will you give a drainage maybe, Like
35:32
Speaker 2: it sounds like maybe you'll move a couple of times
35:34
Speaker 2: within a drainage, But how often where you move to
35:37
Speaker 2: a totally new.
35:38
Speaker 3: Area and try something brand new? Oh a lot.
35:42
Speaker 4: So it's like as I get more information about an area,
35:45
Speaker 4: that depends on how long I'm going to stay or
35:47
Speaker 4: commit to it. Like there's some places where I go, okay,
35:50
Speaker 4: like I know the time of year, like I've planted
35:53
Speaker 4: this certain spot before. I know like this is the
35:57
Speaker 4: you know, eventually a big Buck's going to come through
35:59
Speaker 4: here and I'm might sit there all day. And then
36:01
Speaker 4: there's places where it's like I don't know the area.
36:03
Speaker 4: I'm trying to find that pocket, that right pocket, and
36:07
Speaker 4: I might move constantly, you know, when I get into
36:13
Speaker 4: a place where I'm like, oh, this is buckier, like
36:15
Speaker 4: when you get to those like oh this is.
36:16
Speaker 3: A travel this is a corridor.
36:18
Speaker 4: Like this has everything I need, Like it's got good
36:21
Speaker 4: habitat on both sides. Here's a good pinch point. I
36:24
Speaker 4: might sit there for a lot longer until I kind
36:28
Speaker 4: of feel like I've covered the area. And for me,
36:30
Speaker 4: mostly it's like, to be honest, sometimes it's like I'm
36:33
Speaker 4: cold and bored.
36:34
Speaker 3: Now I'm gonna walk and looks not a great strategy,
36:37
Speaker 3: but it is. Yeah, it's like a you know, you
36:39
Speaker 3: just don't know.
36:40
Speaker 4: Like some days, I'm like I'm gonna sit and I've
36:42
Speaker 4: got buddies that like they've got they'll bring those like
36:45
Speaker 4: heat your body suit things and they'll go like they've
36:48
Speaker 4: got the patience to be like, Okay, we found a
36:50
Speaker 4: good spot.
36:51
Speaker 3: I'm gonna sit it.
36:52
Speaker 4: I'm like, good on you, dude, And they kill good
36:54
Speaker 4: bucks that way, and I'm like, well, I'm gonna go
36:56
Speaker 4: bust through here and try to do the same thing.
36:58
Speaker 4: But you know, I'm successful doing it. Like so I
37:02
Speaker 4: think both people, but you know, it just depends to
37:07
Speaker 4: like if if I'm in an area and I'm like
37:09
Speaker 4: calling and I'm getting like good response or seeing dos,
37:12
Speaker 4: like if I see deer, if I if I'm in
37:14
Speaker 4: an area that I know hows does it's the right
37:17
Speaker 4: time of year, like okay, it's really thick, and I'm like, okay,
37:20
Speaker 4: I'm seeing does every once in a while. Man, I
37:22
Speaker 4: might sit there until I feel like a buck that's
37:26
Speaker 4: cruising would you.
37:27
Speaker 3: Know, have popped out?
37:28
Speaker 4: And then I'll move if I'm not seeing anything, if
37:31
Speaker 4: I don't have sign if I'm like, I'll just keep
37:33
Speaker 4: moving until I find the deer though, because like, you
37:35
Speaker 4: really need to focus on where deer are, otherwise you're
37:38
Speaker 4: just gonna spend your like, spend all your time wasted
37:42
Speaker 4: where there's no deer.
37:43
Speaker 3: Yeah that makes that make like, Yeah.
37:46
Speaker 2: Now what about the scenario where you're sitting there and
37:49
Speaker 2: you keep seeing does, but a whole day goes by,
37:52
Speaker 2: you don't see a buck. You got back out there
37:54
Speaker 2: the next day seeing a bunch of doughs, still don't
37:57
Speaker 2: see a buck?
37:57
Speaker 3: Will you?
37:58
Speaker 2: Will you stick to a place that you know has
38:00
Speaker 2: does even if you're not seeing it a shooter buck yet,
38:03
Speaker 2: just because you know eventually one will cruise through or
38:05
Speaker 2: is there you have to see antlers to stick around.
38:09
Speaker 4: I think I have to see the right kind of does.
38:13
Speaker 4: So one of the things that like I just I
38:16
Speaker 4: disregard pretty much all does with fawns. They are like
38:20
Speaker 4: they doesn't from what I've found, Like you'll find like
38:24
Speaker 4: those nursery pockets where it's like a bunch of does
38:26
Speaker 4: with fawns in that like cruising phase and it doesn't
38:29
Speaker 4: hold the bus. But then you find those like Fawndless does,
38:33
Speaker 4: and they tend to stick around those areas more. Maybe
38:36
Speaker 4: it's like they're I'm gonna come in de Striss sooner,
38:38
Speaker 4: I'm not sure, but like it depends on the stage
38:41
Speaker 4: of the rut too later in the season, and then
38:44
Speaker 4: I will focus on those like pockets with more doze
38:46
Speaker 4: and fawns. But if I'm in an area where I
38:49
Speaker 4: think like they're they're cruising, it's early in the season,
38:52
Speaker 4: and like I see doze but no bucks, I would
38:57
Speaker 4: probably continue to use that time to like find more
39:02
Speaker 4: pockets and then I check pocket to pocket to pocket.
39:06
Speaker 4: So like as those bucks are making circuits. I'm kind
39:08
Speaker 4: of making circuits as well, because like what I will
39:12
Speaker 4: find as well is like once I hit where bucks are,
39:15
Speaker 4: you're gonna find other bucks. Because what will happen is
39:18
Speaker 4: like whether this snow or not, it doesn't matter, like
39:20
Speaker 4: those bucks smell those bucks, and then they like get
39:23
Speaker 4: on those trails and then they follow those same routes.
39:26
Speaker 4: So like, once you've got the zone, then I focus in.
39:29
Speaker 4: Like if I got an area where it's like, oh,
39:32
Speaker 4: there was a there's some does and I've seen bucks,
39:35
Speaker 4: there's gonna be more bucks. If I just find a
39:37
Speaker 4: pocket with does and like no bucks, then sometimes until
39:40
Speaker 4: later on there might not be any.
39:44
Speaker 3: With the.
39:46
Speaker 2: Okay, we're in this scenario, we're seeing doz, we've seen
39:49
Speaker 2: some bucks come through, you're shifting around doing the calling.
39:55
Speaker 2: What about like the specific sequences of call. You said
39:57
Speaker 2: you're grunning a lot, you're rattling a lot. What does
40:00
Speaker 2: that actually look like? Like what's your what kind of
40:03
Speaker 2: grunning do you do? How long of a sequence? Same
40:07
Speaker 2: thing for rattling? I'm curious about the details there.
40:10
Speaker 4: Yeah, man, I'm trying to think, like so often I
40:14
Speaker 4: probably start out with like grint, grint, grin, grint, grint,
40:20
Speaker 4: and then rattle and then heat or or like sometimes
40:27
Speaker 4: I'll start off with like a dobe eat like something
40:29
Speaker 4: where if there's something close by, it might just draw
40:32
Speaker 4: them out before I go crash antlers. Yeah, you know,
40:35
Speaker 4: because sometimes like when I rattle to I'm not really
40:40
Speaker 4: rattling for the small bucks, but they still often are
40:43
Speaker 4: the most like interested in it no matter.
40:45
Speaker 3: What you do.
40:47
Speaker 4: But uh yeah, so it would be like I don't know,
40:50
Speaker 4: maybe I'll like grunt fifteen ten times fifteen times now, yeah,
40:58
Speaker 4: and then I probably I probably do it a few times.
41:00
Speaker 4: And then I always throw.
41:01
Speaker 2: In like a hard to do you know what I mean,
41:05
Speaker 2: not bad.
41:08
Speaker 3: Okay, And then I'll probably do a couple of those
41:10
Speaker 3: and wait and then it's like I use these.
41:16
Speaker 4: I've used everything, but there there's like a pack rack
41:21
Speaker 4: or something like it's like a two little thing I
41:24
Speaker 4: found like all the plastic crap though when it gets cold,
41:26
Speaker 4: like a lot of times are real cold, and that's
41:28
Speaker 4: probably why I don't sit too long, but like they
41:30
Speaker 4: break when it gets cold.
41:32
Speaker 3: But I'll use that like it.
41:33
Speaker 4: Seems like it carries good noise, something that you like.
41:36
Speaker 4: I try to also find like I do the same
41:38
Speaker 4: thing I do with el hunting with bugling, where your
41:41
Speaker 4: sound travels. So if I got an area where I
41:43
Speaker 4: can hear it echoing across the canyon, I know that
41:45
Speaker 4: like I'm covering the area more. If I if it's
41:48
Speaker 4: like soaked up by vegetation, then I know that I
41:50
Speaker 4: have to sit longer. So depending on those areas, when
41:53
Speaker 4: I can hear it like broadcasting across there, I know
41:56
Speaker 4: that it's traveling and I know that it's going to
41:58
Speaker 4: be more receptive, and I kind of feel like if
42:01
Speaker 4: anything's within earshot, I often see them within that like
42:03
Speaker 4: fifteen minute range, you know, like the like it does
42:10
Speaker 4: depend on the timing of the rut and how like
42:12
Speaker 4: deer receptive they've been. That's I'll do that like grunt, grunt, bleat, blead, rattle,
42:19
Speaker 4: rattle for mm hmm, like bucks fighting for a while,
42:27
Speaker 4: you know, Like I don't know, like it's hard the
42:30
Speaker 4: I for minutes. Yeah, yeah, you know, it just depends,
42:34
Speaker 4: like you know, it'd be like I'll hit it like
42:39
Speaker 4: back and forth, you know, Like like I try to
42:41
Speaker 4: kind of think of like two deer fighting and like
42:43
Speaker 4: how long are they doing this for?
42:45
Speaker 3: Wait?
42:45
Speaker 4: Do it again, because the strategy isn't like necessarily to
42:49
Speaker 4: be like a realistic deer, is to just catch the
42:52
Speaker 4: attention of something that's like looking for any deer. And
42:56
Speaker 4: so I'll do that. Then I'll go back to grunting,
42:59
Speaker 4: probably like three minutes later, I'll do another set of
43:03
Speaker 4: calling wait again three to five minutes and then as
43:07
Speaker 4: I kind of like get closer to maybe potentially leaving,
43:11
Speaker 4: like it depends on like how that sounds traveling too,
43:14
Speaker 4: Like if the rattling is traveling, no, well, I'll do
43:17
Speaker 4: a lot more rattling and the other thing that I've
43:20
Speaker 4: noticed too, for like I mean, on these hunts, I'm
43:23
Speaker 4: actually like targeting pretty mature deer, and so I do
43:29
Speaker 4: like if I bring antlers, they're often like heavy. I
43:33
Speaker 4: actually use like meal their antlers a lot. On that
43:36
Speaker 4: big initial smack, like I do that rout loud like
43:40
Speaker 4: crash smack, Like I want it to be loud, and
43:41
Speaker 4: I want it to be fairly aggressive. I don't kind
43:44
Speaker 4: of like mediocre do it like I getn't get after
43:47
Speaker 4: it because that's the one like if you want the
43:51
Speaker 4: big bucks to run in, it needs to sound pretty
43:54
Speaker 4: pretty heavy.
43:57
Speaker 3: Yeah, And then like so yeah, I guess it's say,
44:00
Speaker 3: like I don't.
44:01
Speaker 4: Know time wise, like you know, grunting for a minute, rattling,
44:06
Speaker 4: and then sometimes I'll set a time or something like,
44:09
Speaker 4: you know, three to five minutes and then hit it
44:10
Speaker 4: again something like that.
44:23
Speaker 2: So so you said you're you know, trying to target
44:26
Speaker 2: mature bucks.
44:27
Speaker 3: Yeah.
44:28
Speaker 2: One of the things you hear about so much when
44:30
Speaker 2: hunting out west, especially if you're trying to get a
44:32
Speaker 2: you know, mature mule deer elk or really any elk,
44:35
Speaker 2: is you got to get way off the road, get
44:37
Speaker 2: to these hard to reach places.
44:38
Speaker 3: Right?
44:39
Speaker 2: Does that apply to white tails out there? Or can
44:42
Speaker 2: you you know, are you trekking in really deep to
44:45
Speaker 2: find these deer spots or are you doing this close
44:47
Speaker 2: to a car camp?
44:49
Speaker 3: You know what's that look like? Oh? It just depends
44:51
Speaker 3: to be honest.
44:52
Speaker 4: Like the thing is like they do move a lot,
44:56
Speaker 4: and also like that density of timber and the low
44:59
Speaker 4: density of deer, you could kill these deer anywhere. Like
45:02
Speaker 4: there's places that I've hunted and you're literally like walking,
45:06
Speaker 4: you know, like moving spots, vehicle, getting out, doing some calling,
45:09
Speaker 4: doing some glassing whatever, moving And there's other places where
45:13
Speaker 4: it's like I'll be in a wilderness situation and like shit,
45:16
Speaker 4: you can backpack on it, you know, like covering country
45:19
Speaker 4: and keep everything on your back and like following try
45:22
Speaker 4: especially if there's like snow, you might I may be
45:24
Speaker 4: ten miles away from here tonight, I'm just gonna camp
45:28
Speaker 4: where I'm at and find these areas. So it just depends,
45:32
Speaker 4: like sometimes honestly, like I make my hunt plan based
45:35
Speaker 4: on the weather too, because like it'll be twenty below
45:37
Speaker 4: and you're just like it's nice to go back to
45:41
Speaker 4: your camp. And then so like when I'm not packing in,
45:46
Speaker 4: you probably do more hiking than when you're packing in,
45:48
Speaker 4: to be honest, Like you might hike in five miles
45:52
Speaker 4: like and then hike back out five miles or something
45:55
Speaker 4: like that. Or more like my wife's first white tail buck,
46:00
Speaker 4: we didn't camp because it was like terribly cold, but
46:04
Speaker 4: like we climbed I think it was like we did
46:09
Speaker 4: I don't know, forty almost five thousand feet of elevation
46:12
Speaker 4: game that day to kill her buck, like you know
46:15
Speaker 4: what I mean, Like that's gnarly, like in the Unique
46:18
Speaker 4: Doe and like, yeah, dude, we spotted the buck like
46:21
Speaker 4: probably three miles away and well, we spotted a deer
46:26
Speaker 4: walking across the top of this opening and then went
46:29
Speaker 4: up there.
46:30
Speaker 3: It was a dough and like that's I know this zone.
46:34
Speaker 3: Let's get in there. Got in there.
46:36
Speaker 4: We're like laying down and watching that trail where that
46:39
Speaker 4: dough was, and sure enough a buck comes out of
46:42
Speaker 4: the timber and like kind of that same thing where
46:44
Speaker 4: I's stling, Like they follow those trails pretty good. So
46:46
Speaker 4: if you see where ones crossed, like it's a good
46:48
Speaker 4: indication that so you know, it's like snowing. And we
46:51
Speaker 4: just had climbed like just that last climb was three
46:54
Speaker 4: thousand feet not including to like get into there, and
46:58
Speaker 4: it was like it was awesome, Like it was a
46:59
Speaker 4: tiny little it was our first year. I think it
47:02
Speaker 4: was our first it was our first white tail, and
47:05
Speaker 4: so like I don't know where I'm going with that,
47:07
Speaker 4: but like, uh, you it can be it can be
47:12
Speaker 4: as far and deep as you want, or it could
47:15
Speaker 4: be somewhere it's just like you know, easy to access
47:18
Speaker 4: to it, Like it doesn't have to be way back there.
47:21
Speaker 4: But I mean, like my theory is this, like I
47:25
Speaker 4: like to like all I'm not I don't know, I
47:28
Speaker 4: don't know the best way to say it, Like I
47:30
Speaker 4: kind of hunt for the area in some ways, but
47:33
Speaker 4: also like I really like if I've got the time,
47:37
Speaker 4: like to look for good bucks, and like I consider
47:41
Speaker 4: a good buck like like a like a good mountain buck,
47:45
Speaker 4: like a six year old one thirty to one forty
47:47
Speaker 4: and then like we'll we'll get into those like one
47:50
Speaker 4: fifty plus year and and to be honest, like dude,
47:54
Speaker 4: that you think about a one fifty type year that
47:57
Speaker 4: lives in the mountains has never seen agriculture, Like that's
48:01
Speaker 4: a hell of a deer, and like they do exist,
48:05
Speaker 4: like but you have to be in an area where
48:06
Speaker 4: there's like decent genetics, but they just get age right
48:11
Speaker 4: like anywhere, like think about you know anything. It's like
48:14
Speaker 4: that's why targeting those places where there's fewer people, fewer deer,
48:18
Speaker 4: you kind of have that like higher likelihood of finding
48:24
Speaker 4: that that next level buck. And like i'd say, every
48:27
Speaker 4: year I find one buck within that like big rate
48:34
Speaker 4: like the one forty plus range. Oftentimes I screw it
48:39
Speaker 4: up or someone I'm with is screwed it up, you know,
48:42
Speaker 4: Like I take a lot of people and like you,
48:45
Speaker 4: I've seen some giant year get missed or something stupid happen.
48:50
Speaker 4: But yeah, it's like one of those things where you know,
48:53
Speaker 4: I try to target those deer because that's fun for me.
48:57
Speaker 4: And then and sometimes too it's like, well this year
49:00
Speaker 4: I haven't like it's been struggling. I find like a
49:02
Speaker 4: one to twenty type buck and it's like it's a
49:03
Speaker 4: heck of a deer for this particular unit for this
49:06
Speaker 4: like whatever's going on where I'm at, Like I'm way deep,
49:10
Speaker 4: like didn't even know there was deer back here, found
49:12
Speaker 4: this cool spot, and like I turned up a good deer.
49:17
Speaker 4: So I think, like, but targeting those bigger deer, I
49:20
Speaker 4: have to go to those places where I'm like, that's
49:22
Speaker 4: that potential's there.
49:24
Speaker 3: I guess that makes sense.
49:26
Speaker 2: Yeah, well I love the I love two things about this.
49:28
Speaker 2: I like the idea of finding that old deer that
49:31
Speaker 2: just isn't around people. That's so unique, at least in
49:35
Speaker 2: the white tail world, right, I mean, most of the
49:36
Speaker 2: white tails that we hunt are deer that are around people
49:39
Speaker 2: all the time. So the idea of going somewhere where
49:42
Speaker 2: you're chasing a deer that maybe has never seen a
49:44
Speaker 2: person or very rarely with that, there's something special about that,
49:47
Speaker 2: but then also just the the the allure of being
49:53
Speaker 2: able to if you want to backpack in for a
49:55
Speaker 2: white tail, that's just so different. Yeah, that seems like
50:00
Speaker 2: a really cool twist on the traditional thing when you're
50:04
Speaker 2: doing that. I know you said you've done both, but
50:07
Speaker 2: when you do the packing in to whitetail hunt, can
50:10
Speaker 2: you walk me through a little bit of how the
50:13
Speaker 2: logistics might be different. Like one thing right at the
50:16
Speaker 2: gate I'd be curious about would be, you know, where
50:18
Speaker 2: should you set up your camp in relation to where
50:20
Speaker 2: you're gonna hunt? Like that was always a thing we're
50:22
Speaker 2: thinking about when we were elk hunting, But I don't
50:24
Speaker 2: know how much that would be different when you're white
50:26
Speaker 2: tail hunting. How do you think about that? And then
50:29
Speaker 2: any other logistics when it comes to you know, packing
50:33
Speaker 2: in and operating out of the back country.
50:37
Speaker 4: Yeah, so I mean two times a year, you'd do
50:39
Speaker 4: it like a September time frame, much more pleasant, like
50:43
Speaker 4: gets nice and places that you know do that. It's
50:49
Speaker 4: actually more prone to do it early season because you're
50:52
Speaker 4: hunting the deer before they drop. Like I guess think
50:56
Speaker 4: about like mountain bucks. The reason I call mountain bucks
50:58
Speaker 4: because they like live and die on the mountain, and
51:00
Speaker 4: they do these like seasonal things of like they're up
51:03
Speaker 4: at that top third of the mountain. Like I've found
51:05
Speaker 4: white tails up at ten thousand feet in the summertime,
51:09
Speaker 4: we're like eighty five hundred feet just in like the
51:12
Speaker 4: little summer range. And then I've also found them down
51:14
Speaker 4: in the bottoms of three thousand feet. But most of
51:17
Speaker 4: time I'm like targeting that like higher maybe not like
51:20
Speaker 4: out like might not be above timberline, but like that
51:23
Speaker 4: higher top third in the mountain, and it's conducive to
51:26
Speaker 4: like camping and everything. Then and then there's like late season,
51:30
Speaker 4: which is that November time frame, and mountains in November
51:34
Speaker 4: it can get super cold and like unpredictable weather. And
51:38
Speaker 4: it's not like we don't backpack hunt elk at the
51:40
Speaker 4: same time, So like, you know, late season, you just
51:44
Speaker 4: have so much more gear. You've got I bring like
51:47
Speaker 4: a four season tent, you know, zero sub zero degree
51:53
Speaker 4: sleeping bag, lyner, probably a lot of handwarmers, like dude,
51:57
Speaker 4: just freaking ten pounds of warmers, warmers, all of it,
52:02
Speaker 4: you know, stove generally like just melting snow for the water.
52:06
Speaker 3: That time you're.
52:09
Speaker 4: And then uh, Like for camping, I don't really get
52:13
Speaker 4: too bogged down in it. Like it depends on what's
52:16
Speaker 4: on the ground. Like if there's snow on the ground,
52:20
Speaker 4: I'm probably like finding tracks, finding pockets, and then I've
52:23
Speaker 4: got other pockets that i want to like check. But
52:26
Speaker 4: I'm generally like getting into an area that's hard to
52:28
Speaker 4: get into and then hunting that air. Like like I said,
52:31
Speaker 4: if I'm day hunting, I'm covering probably more ground than
52:34
Speaker 4: if I'm backcountry hunting. But I often it depends, like
52:39
Speaker 4: I might set up a base camp, Like let's say
52:40
Speaker 4: there's an opening, whether it's burn or whatever that I'm hunting,
52:44
Speaker 4: Like i piked in four or five miles and I've
52:47
Speaker 4: like got a camp. I just set it like downwind
52:50
Speaker 4: off kind of away from where I think that I'm
52:52
Speaker 4: gonna be hunting, and I'll be probably fairly close to
52:54
Speaker 4: like pop up on a glassing ridge and then and
52:56
Speaker 4: then glass that, and in those scenarios often I'm actually
53:00
Speaker 4: really like sitting and watching those areas a lot longer
53:02
Speaker 4: than I might be if I'm moving all over, because
53:05
Speaker 4: like once you're invested into a zone, you kind of
53:08
Speaker 4: have to be a little more careful about how you
53:11
Speaker 4: hunt it. If you're going different places like where you
53:14
Speaker 4: can access from day hunting, you aren't as careful because
53:18
Speaker 4: you can go somewhere else. When you've like pop committed
53:21
Speaker 4: to a certain canyon, you know, you kind of go
53:23
Speaker 4: in with that, like I don't I don't get too
53:25
Speaker 4: bogged down, and like where I'm camping to Bedred percent
53:28
Speaker 4: like I can't fairly close to where I'm at, but
53:29
Speaker 4: where it's like obviously not gonna spook the deer that
53:32
Speaker 4: I'm thinking, If that makes sense. Yeah, Yeah, we used to,
53:36
Speaker 4: like my buddy used to like pack in a like
53:38
Speaker 4: a ground blind and like just like long ways and
53:42
Speaker 4: like sit in it, you know, in a heater, like
53:45
Speaker 4: just sitting. I think it was like his tent and
53:47
Speaker 4: his grind blind and you would just sit and watch
53:50
Speaker 4: and he'd like the guy had killed some giant bucks
53:52
Speaker 4: over the years. Yeah, but uh, for the most part,
53:57
Speaker 4: you're just like, you know, kind of camping near you're
54:00
Speaker 4: going to go. And then the way that I like
54:01
Speaker 4: to do it, if I had my druthers, like often
54:04
Speaker 4: I'll like if I'm not seeing what i want, then
54:06
Speaker 4: it's like everything's on my back, I'm hopefully cutting tracks
54:09
Speaker 4: going to a new spot. Maybe I'll hunt with all
54:11
Speaker 4: that stuff on my back until I get to a
54:13
Speaker 4: spot where this is where I'm gonna hunt. Or I
54:16
Speaker 4: kill a deer and then camp there, or find deer
54:18
Speaker 4: and then relocate and then like reset up camp. But
54:21
Speaker 4: it depends on the weather. Like the weather plays a
54:24
Speaker 4: huge factory in like the logistical aspects of it.
54:27
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, for the sake of you know, let's let's
54:32
Speaker 2: assume someone's hearing this and they have not done an
54:34
Speaker 2: elk hunt before, They've not mulder hunter, they've they've never
54:37
Speaker 2: done a back country hunt. Give me the quick rundown
54:42
Speaker 2: on what somebody should be thinking about if they're going
54:44
Speaker 2: to try to pick a pack for this, just quick,
54:48
Speaker 2: like a white tail back country white tail hunt, going
54:50
Speaker 2: to backpack in given what you just describe, time of year,
54:55
Speaker 2: uh kind of factors, what should they be looking for
54:59
Speaker 2: when choosing that super important piece of kid?
55:02
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean you want a large A large pack
55:05
Speaker 4: I go with like the I use this stone glacier,
55:08
Speaker 4: and I like internal frame. I would say like a
55:11
Speaker 4: minimum of like a sixty five hundred cubic inches Like yeah,
55:18
Speaker 4: I mean I've got some pictures because it's like there's
55:20
Speaker 4: a place where I kill the buck. It's like a
55:23
Speaker 4: pretty good buck a few years back, and you got
55:26
Speaker 4: to realize, like you've got all your crap, plus you've
55:29
Speaker 4: got a buck, and to be one hundred percent honest,
55:32
Speaker 4: like probably where you're killing these bucks, there's a ton
55:35
Speaker 4: of deadfall, and like it's not somewhere you like when
55:38
Speaker 4: you're there, you're like I got here, but you don't
55:40
Speaker 4: want to make two trips, and so like an entire
55:44
Speaker 4: boned out dear, plus all your gear gets like a
55:47
Speaker 4: lot of stuff and you just want to get it out.
55:50
Speaker 4: So I go with like where I can have my
55:53
Speaker 4: gear and like late season year takes up so much room,
55:56
Speaker 4: So I do that, and then some kind of like
55:59
Speaker 4: even think about like an external like later something where
56:02
Speaker 4: you can stuff extra gear and like expand that pack
56:06
Speaker 4: is key. Like I'll bring like a load shelf kind
56:09
Speaker 4: of thing where I can like pull the bag away
56:10
Speaker 4: from the load shelf, put my gear in that or
56:12
Speaker 4: the meat in that, and like really.
56:16
Speaker 3: Expand it. So you so you've got a lot of room.
56:18
Speaker 4: I wouldn't go on like a late season back country
56:21
Speaker 4: hunt with like a light pack, and even when I'm
56:23
Speaker 4: day hunting, I generally want to be able to like
56:25
Speaker 4: carry the whole dear plus like you've got extra gear,
56:28
Speaker 4: You've got extra clothes, you're carrying something to rattle with,
56:31
Speaker 4: you got like spotting scope, tripod. Still sometimes I'll just
56:35
Speaker 4: use Actually one of the things that I have kind
56:37
Speaker 4: of switched to is I'll do like I don't know
56:41
Speaker 4: if you use Vortech stuff, but they've got like that
56:43
Speaker 4: I called the baby razor, like the small spotterer. Yeah,
56:46
Speaker 4: And then I'll do like big binos, depend like depending
56:51
Speaker 4: on the country, because I might need to like verify something,
56:55
Speaker 4: but I try to keep like the pack light, so
56:57
Speaker 4: I might just even have like binos on my chest
56:59
Speaker 4: and then like a pair of eighteens or like eighteen
57:02
Speaker 4: power binoculars in my in my backpack so I can
57:06
Speaker 4: cover those open areas and still get like a good
57:08
Speaker 4: gauge on the bucks and the dyear round, and like
57:12
Speaker 4: kind of keep it a little bit lighter and faster.
57:16
Speaker 2: You said a little bit of gil that you're usually
57:17
Speaker 2: using a four season tenth, But do you ever do
57:20
Speaker 2: like the hot tent style like TPE and a little
57:22
Speaker 2: ultra light you know, titanium stove or anything like that
57:26
Speaker 2: for these late season hunts.
57:27
Speaker 4: Probably should, but I don't, like, I don't know, it's
57:30
Speaker 4: just like another thing. I don't know why. Uh, you
57:35
Speaker 4: know a lot of people have asked that, and I've
57:36
Speaker 4: like been on hunts with him, Like, yeah, these are great.
57:40
Speaker 4: I'm not opposed to it, you know, I've used them before.
57:42
Speaker 4: But honestly, like I just kind of like, I just
57:46
Speaker 4: like keeping it simple. I don't know, like I just
57:49
Speaker 4: it's just nice to have.
57:50
Speaker 3: Like I know.
57:51
Speaker 4: The other thing too, is like I've been in some
57:53
Speaker 4: like real harsh like you get a lot of harsh
57:55
Speaker 4: winds or snow and stuff, and I don't know, the
57:58
Speaker 4: hot tent thing just seems like a kind of an
58:00
Speaker 4: extra pain in the butt sometimes. I don't know that
58:03
Speaker 4: maybe it's just maybe one day I'll switch to it.
58:07
Speaker 3: I don't know.
58:07
Speaker 4: I'm not I'm like back and forth on that kind
58:09
Speaker 4: of stuff. But I just kind of you just go
58:11
Speaker 4: with what you've always done. I think in some ways,
58:13
Speaker 4: you know, so what's.
58:15
Speaker 2: So so that said that, what's one thing that it like,
58:19
Speaker 2: what's a weird thing that is worth taking? Like if
58:22
Speaker 2: if you like to stick with it what you usually
58:23
Speaker 2: do and you don't want to bring extra stuff. There's
58:25
Speaker 2: got to be one thing that most people don't think
58:28
Speaker 2: of that you always have to have with you on
58:31
Speaker 2: a hunt like this that either makes life a little easier,
58:33
Speaker 2: a little bit more comfortable.
58:35
Speaker 3: Or just comes in hand. Yeah, what would that be.
58:37
Speaker 3: I always have a glassing pad, like something to sit on.
58:41
Speaker 4: Yeah, it is huge because like like I said, I'm
58:44
Speaker 4: not great at sitting forever. And you get pretty cold too,
58:47
Speaker 4: because like you're you're moving, you're sweating, you're going up
58:50
Speaker 4: these mountains. That's the other factor of like it's hard
58:52
Speaker 4: to it's hard to sit. So I do I bring
58:56
Speaker 4: like something to sit on because there's often like there's
58:59
Speaker 4: very few times that have killed white tails where there's
59:01
Speaker 4: not snow on the ground, So there's often snow and
59:05
Speaker 4: then you know like that sitting and waiting and rattling
59:09
Speaker 4: and calling, like it's nice to sit on something. I
59:11
Speaker 4: also like puffer pants, and you know, like a real
59:15
Speaker 4: warm layer is key. And then like I said, the handwarmers,
59:19
Speaker 4: like I'll throw in toe warmers. My feet don't get hot,
59:23
Speaker 4: so some people are feed are always hot, but I'll
59:25
Speaker 4: throw those in late season. And then I always have
59:27
Speaker 4: like body warmer handwarmer things, and I use those as
59:30
Speaker 4: my sleeping bag too, like religiously, so I'll bring like
59:34
Speaker 4: enough where it's like I got two per day or something.
59:36
Speaker 3: I don't mind carrying the extra weight of those.
59:39
Speaker 2: So, so you mentioned puffer pants, What's what's the.
59:44
Speaker 3: We both wear? First light?
59:45
Speaker 2: Can you walk me through the basic kit that works
59:48
Speaker 2: best for you for this kind of hunt because it
59:50
Speaker 2: would seem kind of tricky because you've got very high exertion.
59:54
Speaker 3: For parts of these hunts and then a.
59:56
Speaker 2: Lot of sit and wait, what's what's ended up on
59:59
Speaker 2: you these trips.
1:00:01
Speaker 4: Yeah, So most of the time I'm wearing like more
1:00:03
Speaker 4: of a late season pant. That's it's just like like
1:00:07
Speaker 4: aligned threeh eight pant I've been using a lot lately,
1:00:11
Speaker 4: so I'll use that, and like I actually probably won't
1:00:15
Speaker 4: have thermals underneath because I like to be able to
1:00:19
Speaker 4: just dump the heat. Depends on how cold it is,
1:00:21
Speaker 4: Like if it's sub zero, I'll probably have thermals and
1:00:23
Speaker 4: those on in a walk and be fine. But I'll
1:00:26
Speaker 4: often have like the lined pant thermals so I can
1:00:30
Speaker 4: dump the heat. I'll have like the puffer pants from
1:00:33
Speaker 4: when I stop, and I generally keep those super accessible,
1:00:38
Speaker 4: but like.
1:00:38
Speaker 3: In a waterproof bag or something like that depends.
1:00:42
Speaker 4: And then I always have my rain gear as well
1:00:44
Speaker 4: as like an added element of protection and warmth. And
1:00:49
Speaker 4: then on my top I'm probably wearing like a wick
1:00:52
Speaker 4: or not, like a kiln hoodie. And then you know,
1:00:57
Speaker 4: it depends, like I've been using that unk foundry jack
1:01:00
Speaker 4: it a lot too, But like when I'm hiking, even
1:01:02
Speaker 4: if it's cold, I probably don't even have a jacket on.
1:01:04
Speaker 4: I'm just like, you know, it depends like how cold
1:01:07
Speaker 4: it is. Sometimes I've got that and I've just got
1:01:09
Speaker 4: everything opened up. The key is don't sweat like I
1:01:13
Speaker 4: mean you will sweat, but like you want it to evaporate,
1:01:15
Speaker 4: like you don't get your stuff wet. And then I'll
1:01:17
Speaker 4: have I don't know, like a depends like either this
1:01:23
Speaker 4: right now like a brooks down or like a chamber,
1:01:25
Speaker 4: like a bigger down, or like there's what's the new
1:01:28
Speaker 4: on the white cloud?
1:01:30
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you prob use.
1:01:32
Speaker 4: That one more because a little bit lighter and a
1:01:34
Speaker 4: little more warm their weight ratio. But yeah, and so
1:01:38
Speaker 4: it's like that's my I'm sitting down. I'm glass and
1:01:40
Speaker 4: I'm in camp. I'm sleeping in it. Whatever it is. Yeah,
1:01:45
Speaker 4: another little fun thing that I do. Take on those
1:01:49
Speaker 4: late season back country instans, those like slippers there's like down.
1:01:53
Speaker 3: Yeah, a lot of people say they like that.
1:01:56
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'll put I mean, I'll put toe warmers in
1:01:58
Speaker 4: and then put those in and in my like I've
1:02:00
Speaker 4: done last couple of years. I've probably camped thirty days
1:02:05
Speaker 4: and temperatures like zero to negative twenty.
1:02:10
Speaker 3: It's dude, it's freaking cold. Like you.
1:02:15
Speaker 4: Zip your you're like this much of your face is out,
1:02:18
Speaker 4: like everything's frozen around you. And you gotta remember to
1:02:21
Speaker 4: vent your tent because otherwise you just get like ice
1:02:23
Speaker 4: condensation in there.
1:02:24
Speaker 3: Like is it worth it? But yeah, I don't know. Yeah,
1:02:30
Speaker 3: Like that's why it's nice.
1:02:31
Speaker 4: Like if you can, you know, you like pull a
1:02:34
Speaker 4: trailer or you know, have like a base camp or
1:02:37
Speaker 4: even just like sleeping in your truck where you can
1:02:39
Speaker 4: have like more warm stuff.
1:02:40
Speaker 3: But honestly, like it's not that bad. Like you you
1:02:43
Speaker 3: kind of warm.
1:02:43
Speaker 4: Up in your tent and you find little tricks like
1:02:47
Speaker 4: all like boil water, put it in my water bottle,
1:02:50
Speaker 4: you know, throat my tent or my sleeping bag. The
1:02:53
Speaker 4: handwarmer trick is pretty solid. I don't know, like different stuff,
1:02:59
Speaker 4: you know, like sometimes like it's real cold, I'll use
1:03:02
Speaker 4: my stove, but I'll actually bring like a little carbon
1:03:04
Speaker 4: monoxide thing too, because I know people have had problems
1:03:08
Speaker 4: with that, so I'll have a little thing. I won't
1:03:10
Speaker 4: run it, but i'll like, you know, just to get
1:03:13
Speaker 4: the chill off a little bit, crack it in there
1:03:16
Speaker 4: and make sure it's spent it and then turn it off
1:03:18
Speaker 4: and set the canister outside.
1:03:19
Speaker 3: Yeah.
1:03:20
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it sounds with the conditions that can
1:03:24
Speaker 2: be out there, it can sound obviously brutal. But at
1:03:27
Speaker 2: the same time, there's also a certain appeal to the
1:03:29
Speaker 2: whole thing, a little bit of that suffer fest type
1:03:34
Speaker 2: two fun can sometimes be special in its own way.
1:03:37
Speaker 2: So this whole thing is super intriguing to me, just
1:03:41
Speaker 2: taking something that I know I love. But sometimes you
1:03:45
Speaker 2: can fall into a rut, I think with whitetail hunting,
1:03:48
Speaker 2: sometimes it can become at least traditionally, how white tail
1:03:50
Speaker 2: hunting isn't what I do A lot of time is
1:03:52
Speaker 2: kind of the same old, same old that for a while,
1:03:54
Speaker 2: and I love it.
1:03:55
Speaker 3: I love it. But the idea of.
1:03:57
Speaker 2: Taking this loved thing in a a very familiar setting
1:04:01
Speaker 2: and tossing it into a very unfamiliar instead of circumstances
1:04:06
Speaker 2: is so appealing. To be able to have that adventure
1:04:10
Speaker 2: while also chasing the critter that you know fascinates you
1:04:13
Speaker 2: more than anything else. I mean, that's a super super
1:04:17
Speaker 2: interesting idea. So this is this is high on my
1:04:19
Speaker 2: to do list, maybe maybe even this year.
1:04:22
Speaker 3: So uh sweet, yeah, yeah, Well I think you'll love it.
1:04:25
Speaker 4: Like and I think guys that like hunt a lot
1:04:27
Speaker 4: of white tails, you just feel like it's probably the same, right,
1:04:32
Speaker 4: Like you can you could draw so many similarities. It's
1:04:34
Speaker 4: just like a very large scale. And then I also
1:04:37
Speaker 4: think like in a way you can get away with
1:04:39
Speaker 4: a little bit more in some in some aspects like
1:04:42
Speaker 4: with this, like you just have to know, like if
1:04:44
Speaker 4: you've got a smaller area that you cover, right like
1:04:49
Speaker 4: exponentially increase that. Not like you're gonna have to cover
1:04:51
Speaker 4: a lot of ground to kind of like make up
1:04:54
Speaker 4: for that that density kind of thing. But man, you
1:04:58
Speaker 4: can get in areas and like see a lot a
1:05:00
Speaker 4: deer and have like some phenomenal hunts and and you
1:05:03
Speaker 4: can honestly find some deer that are like great box
1:05:07
Speaker 4: like you know, for wherever you know there's like really
1:05:10
Speaker 4: good opportunity too.
1:05:12
Speaker 3: Yeah sounds like, well, I know that.
1:05:14
Speaker 2: I know you've got a hard stop here, so I
1:05:16
Speaker 2: want to be respectful of your time. But but real quick, Remy,
1:05:19
Speaker 2: can you give folks listening a rundown of of where
1:05:22
Speaker 2: they can see some of your films and shows connect
1:05:25
Speaker 2: with you, get your content? Like where should they what
1:05:28
Speaker 2: should they be checking out?
1:05:29
Speaker 3: Yeah?
1:05:29
Speaker 4: For sure, man, they you know at Remy Warren at
1:05:32
Speaker 4: pretty much any social media R E M I W
1:05:35
Speaker 4: A R R E N. And then I've got my
1:05:37
Speaker 4: YouTube channel where you're released. You know, quite a few
1:05:40
Speaker 4: videos now on that Remy Warren YouTube channel. And then
1:05:44
Speaker 4: I've got my podcast Live Wild podcasts pretty much everywhere
1:05:48
Speaker 4: podcasts are available.
1:05:49
Speaker 3: So awesome.
1:05:51
Speaker 2: Man, you're doing great stuff. You've been doing great stuff
1:05:54
Speaker 2: for a long time and a lot of us have
1:05:56
Speaker 2: have benefited from it. So thank you for all that,
1:05:58
Speaker 2: and thanks for this been a lot of fun.
1:06:01
Speaker 3: Yeah, appreciate it, man, Thanks for having me on.
1:06:02
Speaker 2: It's always yeah, hopefully picking your brain about maybe Elkermeal
1:06:08
Speaker 2: there next as I continue to expand the boundaries and
1:06:11
Speaker 2: borders of of what we do here.
1:06:13
Speaker 3: Perfect. Yeah, we'll keep me posted.
1:06:15
Speaker 4: Yeah, if you need any any uh pointers in the
1:06:18
Speaker 4: right direction for the old backcountry white.
1:06:20
Speaker 3: Tails, I definitely will take you up on that.
1:06:23
Speaker 4: Sure, I'll be interested to hear you got to connect
1:06:25
Speaker 4: with me afterwards, and I want to hear kind of
1:06:27
Speaker 4: your recap of of what you thought and like, yeah,
1:06:31
Speaker 4: you know, don't be afraid to use some like crazy
1:06:33
Speaker 4: tactics because you know, do a lot of calling. If
1:06:37
Speaker 4: you think you're overcalling, just keep calling. You'll be fine,
1:06:40
Speaker 4: Like you aren't going to scare them away.
1:06:42
Speaker 2: I love like the sense of freedom that gives me
1:06:45
Speaker 2: to just like be crazy on the horns and make
1:06:47
Speaker 2: a lot of racket like that sounds a lot of fun.
1:06:49
Speaker 3: So yeah, that's what I like.
1:06:50
Speaker 4: Tell me about it, like make some noise, like it's
1:06:53
Speaker 4: not what's going to happen, like just you probably aren't
1:06:56
Speaker 4: going to spook them out, right, so you're either going
1:06:58
Speaker 4: to call them in or not. New It's like it's
1:07:00
Speaker 4: not like you're dedicated at one spot. So it's fun.
1:07:03
Speaker 3: I think you'll enjoy it, all right, I'm in for it. Cool,
1:07:10
Speaker 3: all right, and that's a wrap.
1:07:12
Speaker 2: I hope you guys enjoyed that one as much as
1:07:14
Speaker 2: I did. I appreciate you being here with me. I
1:07:17
Speaker 2: hope that these last couple podcasts have given you something
1:07:20
Speaker 2: new to think about, something new, to put a pep
1:07:23
Speaker 2: in your step this year and try something different. Whitetail
1:07:27
Speaker 2: hunting is so rich and so diverse if we're willing
1:07:33
Speaker 2: to step outside of the usual. There's nothing wrong with
1:07:36
Speaker 2: the usual. I love going on hunting on the back
1:07:38
Speaker 2: Ford it just as much as the next guy. But
1:07:40
Speaker 2: sometimes you need to change a pace. Sometimes you need
1:07:43
Speaker 2: to push yourself outside of your comfort zone. That's what
1:07:46
Speaker 2: this series is all about, and that's what our podcast
1:07:49
Speaker 2: today was all about, and I hope it's something you
1:07:52
Speaker 2: will give some thought. So until next time, thank you
1:07:56
Speaker 2: all for being here, and stay wired.
1:08:00
Speaker 4: A hon