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Monday Mini: Conservatorship and Women · Stuff Mom Never Told You

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. I do become to
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: stephan I never told your production of I Heart Radio.
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: So Samantha, I know we've talked about Britney Spears before.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: Uh do you have a favorite Britney Spears song? I
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: have so many. I have so many, but I really uh,
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: I'm a slave for you. I think was such a
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: big transition for her that I love that video because
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: I feel like, and not just video, but the song,
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: but I feel like that was a song for her
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: to be able to express herself as well as her
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: dance skills, Like she's been able to dance like that's
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: one of the biggest things about her. She's an entertainer
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: and when it comes to dance, she's on point. And
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: I feel like that one was really able to showcase
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: all of her dance skills because when you see it
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: translated with other people trying to do it, the difficulty
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: level it's pretty high up there. So not to be technical,
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: but obviously I'm being technical. That's probably my favorite because
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: I feel like that was the beginning of our transition. Unfortunately,
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: that was also the like the beginning of everybody really
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: honing in on her and sexually beyond sexualizing but literally
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: ripping her apart for becoming a mature adult. So, but
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: I do love that transition because it felt like I
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: think we're pretty close in age actually Britney Spears and
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: I so felt. Uh First of all, you know, there
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: was a lot of parts that I'm like, man, I
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: wish I could be that, meaning like her body, her
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: dance moves, her necessarily her fame, but at least her
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: like being loved as she was. Uh. So it felt
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: a little on track, but at the same time like
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: I could understand that development of like wanting to be
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: sexy actually just want to know those dance moves. Sure, obviously,
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: I think that's a great answer. Technicality, I there are
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: so many it's hard to choose, and depending on the
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: mood and evening that my answer would change. But I
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: did want to talk about specifically. When I was in
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: middle school, my favorite Britney Spears song was Lucky because
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: I it kind of had like this, I was a
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: very angsty, you know, like sad teen and still today,
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: I really loved it. And I feel like a lot
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: of people have been re examining that song lately because
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: the lyrics are basically like Oh, she's so lucky, she's
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: a star, but she's crying from this broken heart. And
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: as all of this stuff has come out through these
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: documentaries of the Free Britney Movement, which I'm still like, wow,
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: free Britney movement is a thing that we're talking about
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: and in this conservatorship, which is what we're talking about today,
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: that it feels like maybe there was more going on
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: in that song, right, right, I think you're right, like
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: though she didn't write these songs, she may have connected
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: really closely with that. So right, So you just want
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: to put a date on this, because this is kind
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: of happening as well as we are recording. It is
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: July one, twenty twenty one, and today we are talking
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: about women and conservatorships. We are going to be talking
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: about Britney Spears because that is probably the reason a
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: lot of us have ever heard of it, including me,
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: because she has been in the news about about her
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: situation and fighting to get free of it, or at
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: least free of her father's heart in it. So we're
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: not going to go into too much detail because it's
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: a very complicated situation. We're gonna be focusing on the
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: main details, but we did want to talk about it
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: because it does, as it turns out, as with a
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: lot of things, disproportionately impact women in a lot of cases.
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: So yeah, as she has started speaking out about it,
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: it was the focus of Finding Brittany the documentary. More
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: details have come out about her whole situation in her
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: testimony Britney Spears is testimony that she gave and a
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: lot of these details were just disturbing and upsetting. Her father,
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: Jamie Spears, who controls the conservatorship and the management team,
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: control things like the color of her cabinets, who she dated,
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: prevented her from going to a doctor to remove an
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: i U D that she wanted to remove so she
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: could have more kids, once forced her to perform with
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: a one and four degree fever, and on a separate occasion,
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: forced her to take lithium against her will. UM. Not
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: only that she's having to pay for the lawyers arguing
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: against her in court, and from what I understand, she
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: didn't get to choose the lawyers that are representing her.
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: She opened up about the negative impact of the situation
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: has had on her life, including depression, difficulties, sleeping UM
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: and she's called the conservatorship abusive, and experts examining this
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: situation agree that it is an instance of domestic abuse.
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: She said that she hadn't been open about it before
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: because she was embarrassed that it happened to her. A
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: judge ended up denying her request to remove her father
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: from her conservatorship as of the day before we recorded this.
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: So yeah, when I first was researching it, it was
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: still up in the air. But that's how it turned out, right,
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: So let's start at the beginning. What is a conservatorship
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: From Investopia, it is quote. Conservatorship is a legal status
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: to which a court appoints a person to manage an
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: incapacitated or incompetent individuals or minors of financial affairs. Such
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: a person may also serve as a guardian, who is
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: responsible for establishing and monitoring the physical care of the
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: individual and managing their living arrangements. In some states, such
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: as California, which is where this is occurring, both roles
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: are called conservatorships, with the guardian role term conservator of
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: the person and the financial role called the conservator of
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: the estate. These are two ways to establish a conservatorship
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: for individuals and for organizations or corporations is usually considered
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: a last resort and ending them is difficult, as we
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: are witnessing so in California specifically, is to find this way.
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: Quote a court case where judge appoints a responsible person
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  Speaker 1: or organization called the conservator obviously to care for another
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: adult called the conservative, who cannot care for himself or
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: herself or manage his or her own finances. When it
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: comes to individuals, which is what we're talking about today,
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: courts usually uphold conservatorships for miners or for adults who
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: are mentally or physically disabled, people who are deemed by
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: a professional as unable to make financial, legal, or medical
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  Speaker 1: decisions for themselves. The case of a minor, the conservatorship
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: typically comes to an end when they reach a team.
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: People can sue to end their conservatorship if they don't
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: think it's needed, which is what Britney Spears is doing.
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  Speaker 1: About one point three million Americans are under a conservatorship
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: or something similar right so, from what I do understand,
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: he has a petition to end it. However, yet yet
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: she's asking that her father be removed. It's a little different.
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: So her conservatorship grants her father Jamie Spears control over
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: her person and her estate and estimated sixty million dollars.
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: This was formed in two thousand eight because of some
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: mental health crisis Brittany was experiencing at the time, and
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: worth noting she was back to work a few months later.
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: She constantly works um and this allows her father to
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: control and negotiate business opportunities. In twenty nineteen, a court
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: appointed professional named Jody Montgomery has served as a temporary
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: conservator over Brittany's personal affairs. Ideally, the conservators should be
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: someone the conservaty is okay with. And there's a lot
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: more to the story, but this is essentially what's gone down. Yeah,
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: and I don't know what's going on behind the scenes,
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: but to me, it seems like she's making money and
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: doing okay. But on top of that, we talked about
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: the impossible standards we placed on mother's but as celebrity
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: and always being watched to that, and it's just a
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: whole another level because we've all seen those stories, especially
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: yeah years act where people were very picking apart her
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: skills as a mother. Also, her dad, Jamie Spears, has
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: shown some real serious issues himself and the past, so
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: it's kind of that's the part that keeps getting me
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: is like, I know, I don't know the whole thing,
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: but he doesn't seem like the good fit right him. Yeah,
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: he doesn't. He has issues of his own right and
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: he has no contact with her kids like they have
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: that in place, So there has to be a reason
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: for that, whether he's uh causing drama within the family
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: and or whatever. But if a court granted a no
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: contact order, that's a pretty big deal. Yeah. Yeah, So
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: there's that. And Spears's case is by no means the
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: norm because of celebrity, and it also is just slightly
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: outside of what usually happens, but it has highlighted so
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: real issues at large um with some comparing how Kanye
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: West has been diagnosed with bipolar disorder, just like Spears
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: and Amanda Bines. But Kanye West was not put under
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: a conservatorship, while Spears and Fines were, and both of
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: them are trying to get out of it. Many have
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: claimed this would have never happened to a male star,
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: that while men are assumed to be competent, women constantly
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: have to prove they aren't incompetent and that they aren't emotional.
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: That we don't need someone usually a man, to manage us.
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: As we've watched this play out, experts and activists have
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: been vocal about how this is often used and abused,
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: specifically against women and people who have a disability. I
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: know the disabled community has come out in large and
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: talking about this is shining some lights, and we need
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: to talk about it in a bigger capacity because there's
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: so many implications to this. And again it does it
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: is bringing out the stigma that they can't take care
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: of themselves, or care for themselves, or make decisions for themselves.
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: And yeah, and also I know a lot of the
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: Productive Justice Act of us are very upset about the
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: i u D. Because just as much as we have
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: the right to choose not to have children, we have
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: the right to choose to have children. And she's very
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: capable from what we've talked about, and we've seen that
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: she is a capable mother. No one's doubted that, no
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: one's talked about that as a whole. And just because
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: she had a crisis moment doesn't mean she lives in
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: constant crisis, So that needs to be considered as well.
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: And even for the state of Georgia or the little
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: that I know or the little though I've dealt with.
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: When it comes to declaring someone incompetent, it takes a lot,
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: It takes a lot. And what she did, sure she
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: had a moment of crisis. Sure that would have been
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: a typical seventy to our hold. Maybe some uh rehabilitation,
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: going into a treatment center, crisis center, all of that. Maybe,
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: But for this long amount of years it seems like
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: a power play. I mean again, we're definitely on the outside.
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: We don't know the ins and outs, we don't know
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: what the courts are seeing. But this has gone beyond
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: like the amount of money that's a part of this
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: versation that's concerning. Yeah, And I think the fact that
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: all of her well I don't know all, but a
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: lot of her family members have come out and said,
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: like she's been wanting to get out of this, I
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: think she should get out of this um. And they
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: don't really have contact with the father, And that is
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: like that it is men that are controlling this situation.
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: That's like a whole other grows layer of it to me, right,
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: as well as the fact that the mere fact that
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: he came out Jamie spears the father's put like put
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: it into court that he has nothing to do with
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: this and wanted his name removed, but yet he's still
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: on the conservativeship and that's what got denied to take
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: him off. There's something this doesn't match, right, How are
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: you gonna be like, I didn't have anything to do
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: with this, But the judges like, but you've been involved
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: and you can continue being involved against her will. Which
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: that's the other part to that is we I think
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: we were all kind of confused, like she's just asking
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: that it change hands. Yeah, why can't there be an
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: impartial person? I don't. Yeah, like we said, it's supposed
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: to be someone you agree with. Normally it is somebody
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: that might be like a guardian type figure, but clearly
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: that's not the case in this situation. Right then there's
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: definitely a loss of autonomy when they start blaming that
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: she's being manipulated by people. And maybe she is to
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: a certain degree, but she's also a grown woman. It's
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: kind of just like, if that's her choice to be manipulated,
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: that's her choice to be manipulated. Yeah, there's a lot
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: of infantilizing in this whole conversation, which I guess makes sense,
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: but it's just yeah, hearing how people talk about it
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: on either side, it's kind of it can be a
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: little eyebrow rasing, right, And just as the disabled community
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: would say before and should be noted, anybody with a
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: mental health issue, anybody with a disability, that does not
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: mean they're not competent, that does not mean they're not capable.
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: So I'm not understanding that level of like, Okay, there's
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: just you have may have a mental health diagnosis, unless
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: they are a threat to harm themselves or other there's
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: no need for that. M H. And I'm very very confused. Definitely,
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: we need to talk about therapy that all these but
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: this goes further reaching and again yet implies that having
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: some type of mental health issue or some type of
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: disability means you can't care for yourself, which is insulting
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: and very very very very ablest. Yeah again, Um, and
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: for girls around the world, they are born into male
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: guardianship or conservatorship. We know this. We've talked about this
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: even with the purity episode just recently, preventing women from
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: having control over their own lives and what their lives
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: represent or how they represent the family. Maybe A two
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: tends study documented hundreds of cases of abuse with conservativeships
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: over a period of twenty years. And I think we've
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: seen that with the how many kids have come out
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: bankrupt because of their parents and conservators. And a study
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: out of looked into twenty one cases of financial exploitation
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: in Minnesota, revealing most of the conservators were family the
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: verse and most of the victims were women. And yeah,
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: that's exactly part of when we talked about the financial
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: abuse uh financial uh control that men have over women
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: in domestic violence situations. It's number one, um. And people
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: in these situations have spoken about how painful it is
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: to be told you can't be trusted with your own money,
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: the lack of control and fear they experience. Not to
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: say that these situations are all bad, but there are
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: a lot of room for abuse and obviously abuse of power,
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: and that abuse seems to be disproportionately impacting women. Yeah. Um,
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: And and a lot of the lawyers, and I have
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: to say, some of the articles that have come out
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: from lawyers, especially male leaders, have still rankled me because
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: they're still talking about it, Like, I don't know why
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: Britney Spears is being so emotional. No one's going to
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: trust your court like, but a lot of a lot
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: of lawyers have said, um, you know, any system has
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: room for abuse, but this situation, action and these numbers
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: are showing that it's not just like a small problem
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: like there's a there's a larger issue here. If if
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: the numbers are this big, so it's certainly something that
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: we're going to continue to to look into, um and
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: shine a light on in the meantime. Listeners, if you
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: would like to contact as you can or email Stuff
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: India mom Stuff at iHeart media dot com. You can
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: find us on Instagram at stuff I Never Told You,
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: are on Twitter at Moms of podcast. Thanks as always
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: to our super producer Christina, Thank you, and thanks to
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: you for listening Stuff I Never Told You. Protection of
• 15:36
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