Latest / Finding New Waters / Navigating the Future of Behavioral Health with Tripp Johnson

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Navigating the Future of Behavioral Health with Tripp Johnson · Finding New Waters

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But ultimately, like I think we're putting like way too much
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emphasis on the pharmacology aspect, not enough emphasis on
0:07
social determinants of health and all of the community stuff.
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Like I think we have gotten so disconnected and social media
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and Technology. Only makes it more so that like
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we forget like we're social primates like we came out of the
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primordial stew, you know like we're animals and like we forget
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that because we're so, you know, now we're just on our phones and
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we forget about community and in all the things that used to
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bring us together Heather and like the shared Humanity.
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So I'm thinking a lot about like, how do we how do we
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advance A Narrative of Wellness of human flourishing and
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leverage the healthcare system because that's what it's there
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for. Good afternoon.
1:07
My name is Graham Durkee. And I'm the founder and CEO of
1:09
new orders recovery. In Raleigh North Carolina,
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Welcome to our weekly podcast. Finding new Waters.
1:15
Our goal in creating finding new Waters, is to provide a resource
1:18
for families to help navigate the complexities of supporting a
1:20
loved one. Struggling with substance use or
1:22
mental health, we find ourselves in crisis.
1:25
Due to one of these issues. Most people have no idea where
1:27
to turn, we hope to shed some light on to what is often The
1:30
Darkest Hour for many families. I'm joined here today by our
1:34
continuing care. Coordinator Ryan, Jerel and
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trip, Johnson trip is the founder and CEO of A Nevada.
1:41
Integrated medicine in the owner of Greenhill recovery.
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As a CEO trip. Is responsible for strategic
1:46
decisions, organizational. Performance and cultural
1:49
management trip ensures that all team members are aligned with
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Ames core values. Living centered accountability,
1:56
Unity transparency and growth. Additionally trip is responsible
2:00
for developing aims brand the externalization of its culture
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which involves representing the organization.
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Asian locally, regionally and nationally trip graduated from
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the United States Military Academy at West Point with a
2:11
Bachelor of Science in economics and a minor in systems.
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Engineering at West Point trip was a four-year member of The
2:17
Varsity tennis team and winner of the Patriot League
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championships after graduation. He was commissioned in the Army
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as an infantry officer and completed.
2:25
The US Army Ranger school, Airborne school and Air Assault
2:28
school trip deployed to Southern Afghanistan as an infantry.
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Platoon leader in 2012-13 in support of operation, enduring
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freedom. Mmm, upon return.
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He was selected to be an executive officer before
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finishing his Service as a battalion operations officer
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prior, to joining Greenhill trip, was a second-year law
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student at UNC and an intern at the, North Carolina Department
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of Justice trip. Left law school to pursue his
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passion for helping young men, navigate the complexities of
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early. Adulthood, that's a great place
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to start for me, you know, trip, welcome.
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And happy to have you here and Now you can finally make it.
3:07
I've been been waiting for the invite.
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Well, listen, we had to work out some Kinks before we had you in
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here, right? So I'm psyched to have you that
3:16
man. And obviously we've known each
3:17
other for a bunch of years. Now I consider you a dear friend
3:22
and obviously a confidant and a guy that I can go to with issues
3:27
questions business related issues.
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So it's really cool to have you in here today.
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Yeah, excited for it. Mmm, so let's let's kind of
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start With how did you get into this field right?
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And you know obviously you've got a military background of
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decorated in individual so give us a little bit of background.
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Yeah well I'll start with, I grew up in Hickory North
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Carolina, I thought I was going to be a professional athlete.
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I was traveling around the country for tennis which was all
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going really well. Until I had a little bit of an
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attitude problem and injury and then that kind of coincided
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with. I'd always put everything off to
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focus on tennis and I decided Well, Tennis is and everything,
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then maybe I should start having a little bit more fun, so that
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led me to really probably becoming embracing a new
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identity at it. Really had an identity built
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around being a tennis player. The next identity I had was
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around being just over-the-top a partier.
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And then I found myself at, you know, 17, trying to figure out
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how to make my family proud because I hadn't really tried
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very hard in school. Didn't have great grades and And
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they had all gone have their masters degrees and and stuff
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from Great Schools didn't know how I was going to get in
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anywhere. So I I was still good at tennis
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but I wasn't great and I looked up prestigious schools with bad
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tennis teams and I found the IV's.
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I was like well I could like play with these guys but they're
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not going to recruit me really hard.
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Then I found West Point and their tennis team and I love the
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tennis team. I feel very connected so I'm
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sorry for any army tennis players out there but we're just
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not the top D1 team. There and write.
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And so they recruited me to play there and it was a great
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institution and I always had looked up to folks in in the
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military. So it would kind of checked
5:17
every box ended up barely getting in to the service
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Academy. I think that coincided with the
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same week with the first time I got arrested for drinking and
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then I, you know, went to West Point thought, oh, I'll get
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everything together. You've got to be rich, you know,
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this is going to provide all the structure is, I need, but it
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didn't just like anywhere. You can find that your group of
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guys to run with. I found my guys or I might have
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started the group at least in my class.
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So I started, you know, just had the same pattern, Work Hard,
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Play, Hard. Barely graduated got in a lot of
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trouble while I was up there, which is all funny now.
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But wasn't it the time to my family?
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After after graduating, like we said, I went to Ranger school.
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Took over a platoon, went to Afghanistan.
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Now it's still getting in trouble.
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Like I had this funny seasonal I called the seasonal arrest
6:11
record like I would I would do really well all year and then
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the summer would come and I would blow it up and I think it
6:18
was because I was much more comfortable picking up the
6:20
pieces and putting them back together then actually waiting
6:23
into new Waters. So it was like really
6:26
comfortable for me to blow it up and then rebuild back to where I
6:31
was and then blow it up and do it again.
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So I was got very good at that rebuilding kind of SSO.
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When I came back from the deployment, I've fortunately had
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a friend who actually ended up being in Congress Max Rose kind
6:44
of pulled me aside. He's like, dude, what are you
6:45
doing? He's a, you're not this, you're
6:47
trying to be this character, this Macho, Man, hard-partying
6:51
guy, but you really want to be more intellectual.
6:54
You want to do other things but you think this is what you're
6:57
supposed to be. So you need to like investigate
7:00
that basically, so that well that that hit hard and So I
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called my called my dad and was like I don't know what I need,
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but something's got to give and he said this is going to sound
7:13
crazy because you're this 210-pound Army Ranger Macho, you
7:17
know, drinking a fifth of vodka to and a bunch of to Copenhagen
7:21
guy. But I think you're going to like
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this type of yoga and and I think you should start
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meditating and this type of yoga was a Xiang yoga.
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He said, look just just try it for a month, just do 30 days in
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a row, see what happens. Yeah.
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And Cool. I did it.
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And he sent me a copy of the untethered Soul, which is a
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book. I recommend all the time and a
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couple videos of Alan Watts and that kind of kicked off this
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whole new path for me. And it was very much about, you
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know, I had looked for I had looked for a lot of I guess
7:54
relief and you know drugs alcohol and just embracing kind
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of the hedonic Pleasures as I call them and that didn't work
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like it was it didn't feel Whatever hole, whatever I was
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looking for and yoga and meditation started to kind of
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provide that path for me, that it felt like there were a lot of
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strings to pull at and kind of went off the deep end there for
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a while. Yeah.
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And, you know, dig into this Ashtanga, the actual practice of
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Ashtanga a little bit because, yeah, audience really knows what
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that is. So it is a, I mean, I stronger,
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yoga in the most traditional sense.
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It's just the eight limbs of yoga.
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And so, it's a holistic path. Of yoga it's not just the Asana
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or the physical practice but usually when we're talking about
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Ashtanga these days it's a particular set series of
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postures and typically you do this kind of first thing in the
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morning. There's a lineage out of kind of
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Mysore India and I was introduced to that again by my
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father started practicing, it's a really intense practice.
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So a lot of the Power Yoga that people talk about the hot yoga
9:04
that stuff. A lot of it stems.
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The from the estranja lineage, but the really cool thing and I
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think what's really powerful about it is that you you have
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this set sequence and instead of a teacher walking everyone
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through the same sequence, at the same time every day.
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What you do is you practice every day but you go at your own
9:23
pace you follow your own breath. And your curriculum is they
9:27
call? It is is really given to you by
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the teacher. So you kind of want some level
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of Mastery over the postures that come before it until you
9:35
get the The next one. So for me what it was was like,
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it was really challenging, I couldn't touch my toes, and
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there's a lot of forward folds in the beginning.
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And it provided a really nice challenge every day and a way to
9:49
really fine-tune my body and my awareness with that because
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everything you eat drink, you know, all of that affects how
9:55
you show up on the mat. So, at first, it was really just
9:58
a physical practice. It was just a really good
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exercise routine in some ways, but it also introduced me to the
10:04
idea that there was more to it. Then just these postures.
10:07
Yeah. Now so is there a particular
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diet that you that people practicing our star here follow
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or well, the yo stronger yoga's, kind of sister Sciences
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ayurveda. So, a lot of people will have
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some sort of ayurvedic, ish, diet.
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Most folks are vegetarian. I'm 99 percent vegan.
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Sometimes, I'll sneak a piece of cheese.
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Like, if it's sitting out here in the hallway, I'm seeing I try
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not to tell people about that but you know, that's, that's my
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real Indulgence. These days is an occasional
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piece of cheese, but yeah, so I Been vegetarian or vegan for
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probably eight or nine years. Yeah, you know, trip I've known
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you for four years now and I got to tell you, I think I've
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learned the most about your past from that three paragraph intro
10:47
that grape juice red. I mean, I've known bits and
10:49
pieces but I think one of the cool things about working with
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you is you do have this story that to the outside seems really
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winding, you know, but to know you is to really know someone
11:00
who has kind of a through line and an intentionality behind it.
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And I mean, you've gone everywhere from like Young
11:07
tennis pro to someone who's an active combat situations in
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Afghanistan. All the way to, you know, doing
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yoga with 28 year old heroin addicts.
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And I'm wondering, like, is there a through line that you
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can identify throughout these pieces?
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Like, is there something that weaves it all together?
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That makes it kind of trip. Yeah, I mean, I always say it
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started where the, through line at least starts for me, was in
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fifth grade. I remember sitting on the floor
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of the gymnasium, watching a talent show and I felt like
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extremely untalented. This was before I was Does you
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no good at tennis? Hmm.
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And I just thought, man, like, it would be cool to be talented.
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Then I'd then, I'd be happy. Then I started thinking, like,
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well really, I just want to be happy.
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And that led me to really having an early experience of, oh, I
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could just choose. The, this is okay, and
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everything is good. And I did that for a little
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while, but, you know, then the mind starts going.
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You, the ego gets involved. That's you know, what?
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Really drove me competitive. With tennis.
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There's also, you know, there's an interesting story with
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religion winding into that, which was, I grew up in a
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Christian household, but not dogmatic, like, we didn't really
12:19
talk about it that much, but I thought, hey, if happiness is
12:21
important then, and then I found out about heaven and hell
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started thinking about that, as I will happiness on Earth is one
12:28
thing, but like, I want Eternal happiness.
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So I better be very dogmatic about my, you know, religious
12:35
practices. What I need to do to get into
12:37
heaven essentially, and then, you know, again my black and
12:40
white thinking back then was very much, like okay I'm going
12:43
to follow all of these things. I'm going to I'm going to be
12:45
good enough for God, then I'll get into heaven and then when I
12:50
started really investigating scripture, I found too many
12:54
inconsistencies that my mind couldn't make sense of it the
12:57
time. So then I threw it out.
13:00
It was like throwing out the baby with the bathwater
13:02
situations. I said well hey look if that's
13:04
not part of it then. I'm just supposed to have as
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much fun as I can right now no matter what and so it was really
13:12
that that search for happiness and which I can now consider
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more of a search for like contentment and Equanimity.
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But it was definitely this search for like how can I just
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you know be happy and be content in my body and then the idea the
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other kind of piece of that was, I always felt very lucky like I
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always knew I was a really lucky person and so part of my
13:34
happiness was always going to be I like being a part of something
13:37
bigger and feeling like I was giving back to the world.
13:40
That's what obviously led me to the military.
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Peace. And then what I do now.
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Yeah. Well now and I think that
13:48
obviously, you know, working with young adult guys I can you
13:52
know that's been a passion of mine over the years as well and
13:56
what kind of really drove you to particularly work with this
13:59
population and Bill Green Hill recovery.
14:01
And tell us a bit about Greenhill recovery to?
14:03
Yeah. Yeah.
14:03
So As far as greenhalgh as I mean, II didn't have a passion
14:09
for it. I mean the truth is that someone
14:12
had the idea my first business partner had the idea for Green
14:16
Hill. He was originally going to open
14:18
it with another friend of ours who had gone through a very
14:20
similar program to Green Hill that relationship kind of
14:25
fizzled out. And he called me and he said,
14:27
hey do you want to help start this?
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And I said, you know, I was in law school.
14:30
I just finished up or as in the middle of my internship at the
14:35
attorney. Errol's office and I hate it,
14:37
hate it. And you know, I've been devoting
14:39
my life because I had this real, you know, change in path when I
14:44
was in the army that basically said, I can, I can keep trying
14:47
to change the external circumstances, or I can really
14:50
work on me. And then I spent, and I just
14:52
continue to spend a lot of my time working on me and he said,
14:58
you build the, you help me build this thing.
15:00
I'll handle the business side, the marketing, all that, I'm
15:04
good with that, but I just need you to help.
15:06
Not a program and like, run a team.
15:07
I've never had any any leadership experience.
15:10
I need someone to help with that.
15:11
So I came on as the CEO. Oh and a co-founder in it and I
15:16
mean, I loved what we did because for me that was exactly
15:19
the path. I had been on like we were
15:21
working with a lot of young adults that had similar
15:23
situations and I always say that if my family was not so
15:28
supportive of me and and had resources I mean I probably
15:32
should have gone the treatment I probably you know, I could have
15:35
been in a lot. Lot different legal situations
15:38
and so the idea of I mean that was like I got to jump.
15:41
I was in law school to figure out what I wanted to do and then
15:43
this opportunity to like just do what I wanted to do, showed up
15:46
at my doorstep. So I certainly wasn't any sort
15:49
of like Visionary. Like, I need to go fix young
15:51
adult treatment or I need to provide something else, but I
15:55
certainly resonated with it and I think the existential piece of
15:58
like growing up and the confusing pieces.
16:01
Especially now, I think it's even more confusing for 22 year
16:05
olds. Now that When I was 22, I just
16:08
really sympathized with the position these guys are in, and
16:11
that there is a, there's kind of like a path out of it, but that
16:15
it can be very difficult to navigate.
16:17
And especially when you have, you know, substance use concerns
16:20
mental, health concerns but also like you want to do things in
16:22
life. It's not just it's not just a
16:25
vacation, you know? And certainly getting sober
16:28
isn't a vacation but what we do is like really try and build
16:32
people's, you know, wives and said that they have purpose and
16:34
meaning. And clients are typically coming
16:37
to Green Hill after completing some sort of like, residential
16:40
treatment or something like that, Green Hill Transitional
16:43
Living Program, typically, it's 18 to 28 year old male
16:47
identified patients. And most of them are coming to
16:49
us after having done at least 30.
16:52
Usually 90 days of treatment occasionally, they'll come, you
16:55
know, going through stabilization depending on
16:59
what's going on. But yeah, they usually come work
17:01
with us for six to nine months and then the goal is that we No,
17:06
we get them back into school. Help them establish careers and
17:10
really get integrated in the community and in Raleigh because
17:13
there's just so much to offer here.
17:15
Yeah. And I love that, you know,
17:18
obviously working with that population.
17:20
I like, I can identify with it. So, so, well, because I was a
17:23
young guy getting sober myself. I was 26 when I went into
17:25
treatment, and for the first time, probably should have gone
17:28
a whole lot longer earlier rather and I can identify as
17:33
well, with you said, I had annual You'll legal issues.
17:37
Yeah, it's an annual suspensions.
17:40
Yeah, from boarding schools. It was once a year I was, you
17:44
know, sent home for a couple weeks and that's just kind of
17:47
how it went for food before years.
17:49
So, but I think that, you know, with these young guys in
17:52
particular for me when I was facing it, it was so daunting to
17:55
think. Oh my gosh, for the rest of my
17:57
life. I cannot use these substances
17:59
and I wasn't married. I wasn't, you know, there was
18:01
all these life events that I was just, you know, like how am I
18:05
going to do that? Is that going to be like?
18:07
And you know, the reality was I was super fortunate because
18:11
probably about halfway into treatment, I had the awareness
18:14
that, you know, life is not over because I can't use these
18:17
substances. It's just really beginning.
18:19
Because look at all the amazing things I can do and started
18:21
throwing myself into all this stuff, you know, fly fishing and
18:25
whatnot and just finding really healthy passionate, you know,
18:27
passionate hobbies and I mean, that's like your Ashtanga.
18:30
I mean, that's that's your, that's your your piece.
18:33
That's what gets you going in the day, right?
18:34
Yeah, yeah. But I think it's so important
18:37
for these young to make that connection for these young guys,
18:40
right? And a lot of them just they
18:42
don't have the wherewithal to go there, you know, especially
18:45
today. And I mean, what we're going to
18:47
be another podcast that talks about social media, right?
18:49
But the, you know, the kids that I see the kids because I've
18:52
worked at Greenhill previously, and these guys are looking on
18:54
Tick-Tock and they're seeing all their friends and they're
18:56
smoking Blunts, and they're drinking all day and they're
18:59
meeting cute girls. And some guys telling them to do
19:01
their laundry, right? And it can, that is like
19:04
exactly. And that is like, Unambiguously
19:06
a bad situation, right? And the beauty of working at
19:09
Greenhill and working with you guys, is what I really
19:12
appreciate it. Is, it's not a
19:13
one-size-fits-all, it's not a cookie cutter type program, you
19:16
will do individualized service and be able not just to give
19:19
this kid some order but to be able to extend the kids, some
19:21
real compassion. Yeah.
19:22
Because I think we all like the three of us all know how it is,
19:25
to be a kind of crappy 20-something.
19:28
You're okay. And you know, and we can have
19:30
real honest compassion for that. Have has a result, you know,
19:34
trip Greenhill Green Hills and excellent program that still
19:38
like a centerpiece of like the Raleigh recovery Community.
19:40
But your company has similarly, I definitely had some changes
19:44
over the years. And I was wondering if you could
19:45
talk a little bit about the expansion of services and like
19:48
the through line that drove that because you guys are much, you
19:50
guys absolutely do. Fantastic Transitional Living.
19:52
And you guys do a lot more than that, for the rally Community.
19:55
Yeah. So the, this is where I can say.
19:59
I would definitely was not the Visionary for green help, but in
20:03
working at Greenhill and really trying to To build it.
20:07
I love what we could do. I was if we could have bet a
20:09
thousand on guys, coming to Green Hill and having what we're
20:13
going to call is traditional success right out the gate.
20:15
It's all I'd ever do because it is the it's the most rewarding
20:19
population because, you know, when you get a guy and young
20:22
early adulthood launching into a career like there's so many wins
20:26
that can be there. Yeah, and the ripple effect of
20:29
Ripa is incredible. It's so cool.
20:32
But the thing is, I think everyone knows like treatment
20:35
doesn't just like go well you know, it's not always going to
20:38
go well so I've always as, you know, taking a pretty
20:41
philosophical stance on things and so I really, you know, Green
20:47
how it kind of was doing its thing from a, you know, a
20:50
business perspective. But I kept on running into these
20:54
problems, we had addressing the needs of our current clients and
20:57
that was integrated care like we needed Psychiatry and Just
21:02
Contracting with someone. Even if the best psychiatrist in
21:06
the world doesn't mean that they're actually going to be
21:08
communicating with the rest of your team.
21:11
Like you need them. And so the first thing was like
21:13
at Greenhill needs to improve in the next step is integrating
21:17
care. Then I've been deeply influenced
21:21
by the effects of altruist movement, which is under a
21:24
little bit of flack, the whole Sam bank and free thing.
21:27
However, I think philosophically it's super important because it
21:31
just like I go back to one of my Through lines is service and
21:34
really wanting to do something for other people.
21:36
But not just wanting to feel like we were trying to do good
21:39
but actually doing good and how can, you know, so effective
21:43
altruism is all about how you can use your resources, being
21:47
your time, and your money to do the most good possible.
21:50
And again, I love what we do with Transitional Living, but
21:53
that had its own limitations. And, and the thing that sucks
21:58
the most about Green Hill and just private pay treatment in
22:01
general is That there's a scarcity.
22:03
There's a pervasive, scarcity, mindset, and it's very
22:06
expensive. It's, you feel for these
22:08
families who you wish you could help, and they just don't have
22:11
the money. And so, it became.
22:14
I got really interested in the insurance side of things.
22:17
And I really wanted to figure out if there was a way to work
22:20
more with insurance and do Psychiatry.
22:23
And so, that's the kind of Genesis of where advise that
22:27
integrated medicine. And now we're kind of, we're
22:29
doing, like a little rebranding and it's the advice that Have
22:33
so, you know, Greenhill and aim were set up originally as
22:36
separate entities, and now, we kind of brought the whole gang
22:38
back together and running it as one Collective, integrated care
22:43
and really the idea of a recovery-oriented system of care
22:46
to. So, there are multiple on ramps
22:47
and off ramps in our system now. So guys we go through our
22:50
Transitional Living, may stay in the area.
22:53
Continue working with us on therapy and Psychiatry and or
22:57
people may start with us for, you know, finding a therapist or
23:01
doing medication. Management and may end up in a
23:03
different service, but that gives us a lot of flexibility to
23:06
just meet people where they are build rapport and then really
23:10
work to serve them. So that's kind of I think that
23:13
answers it 100%. And I got to tell you like I
23:16
think being a part of that as that opened up and working at
23:19
Greenhill one of the most amazing things was that we were
23:21
having this totally holistic comprehensive care where we were
23:24
having weekly meetings, not only with therapist, but with the
23:26
psychiatrist at the Transitional Living level and no one else can
23:31
even tell how A fantastic service that is and we weren't
23:34
doing it to shout from the rooftops.
23:37
Look at this amazing service, we didn't jack up prices as a
23:39
result. We did it because you wanted to
23:42
do it because it was the best way to do this care and you
23:44
wanted to do it the best way possible.
23:46
Yeah. And there's such a need right
23:48
now. I mean, no, obviously getting in
23:50
to see a psychiatrist getting to see a therapist is, you know,
23:54
month to month, waiting list, if you can get in at all right.
23:57
So I think that creating this when you did was so necessary.
24:00
Yeah. Yeah.
24:02
It really has been. It's been a great resource for
24:04
us and obviously we've sent a ton of clients over a minutes
24:07
and it's been fantastic. So so what are your, what are
24:11
your kind of plans for the future?
24:13
I know that you're always kind of building and expanding and I
24:17
know that you're a very passionate about managed care
24:20
and all that. Can you kind of tell us a little
24:22
bit more about what we're doing? Moving forward.
24:24
Whoa, I think the first thing I'll say and we can we can
24:27
double click here if we we want to it all, but last year was
24:30
chaos. I mean last Cheers.
24:32
You know as you know as you both know from being down on the
24:37
ground floor with two new organizations Ryan but the first
24:40
year or two is just you're figuring it out you think, you
24:43
know and then what's the Mike times?
24:45
I can get punched in the face and everyone's got a plan until
24:47
they get punched in the face and like there's no I'm at this
24:51
point. Like I don't think you can start
24:52
something new without taking a punch to the face.
24:54
Yeah. Especially when you're trying I
24:56
think like as you all are trying to do here at new Waters to like
25:00
we're trying to do something better like it's not.
25:02
Just a cookie cutter. It's not just hey, we can do
25:05
these services like this. We're actually it's a very
25:08
creative process of how can we make this happen and why aren't
25:13
things done this? Why aren't they?
25:14
Why is withstand? Yeah, you know, and sometimes
25:17
there's a reason and sometimes there isn't sometimes reasons
25:19
like people are lazy and they got greedy and they figured out
25:21
one business model and they're just replicating it.
25:24
But other times their reasons and you're like, man, I wish
25:26
someone had told me that. Okay, so last year was chaos, so
25:30
I'm trying to stay a little bit more grounded.
25:32
In terms of future directions right now certainly I mean we do
25:36
have a few things I say that and then I go into a laundry list.
25:41
Well we're going to be starting a full model DBT program soon.
25:44
I'm working really hard with Blue Cross to come up with a
25:48
unique billing code to help us do this.
25:50
And then for us to share data with them to hopefully pilot it.
25:54
Because this, this full model, DBT is one of the most effective
25:58
treatment. Yeah, it's really, the has the
26:01
best evidence base of any Anything in clinical work and
26:04
yet it's almost never done through insurance.
26:07
And again, there are barriers for a reason around that because
26:11
essentially insurance companies, don't compensate you for those
26:15
groups and the work, it takes outside of it.
26:17
So, first thing coming up is full model.
26:20
DBT will be kind of finishing. We're licensed for.
26:24
We're not running a PHP level of care, right now.
26:28
We're probably going to start PHP as well as, you know, in You
26:32
Latorre detox for people who meet that criteria.
26:35
Maybe some point this year. We're finishing up our mental
26:39
health, licensure as well. So, we'll have the 11:00 license
26:44
in North Carolina, which means we'll be able to do PHP and IOP.
26:47
Don't see that happening right now.
26:50
But the wellness concept is really what gets me like, I've,
26:54
you know, I if as you know, like I talked a lot about health
26:57
insurance and the importance of doing things through health
27:00
insurance. And I think a lot about About
27:02
Behavioral Health and its direction, but that's not my
27:05
interest. My interest is in this, this
27:07
notion of human flourishing and just that this is the system,
27:11
this is the Healthcare System we have.
27:13
And so we want to be able to tap into it to increase human
27:16
flourishing. But a lot of what I hope to see
27:19
in the future. I also more sober living really
27:22
thinking about supported living. As we talk about social media.
27:25
I think a ton about how things are changing and how like so
27:29
much is online now, and Is great, I'm a huge technologists
27:34
as well, but the real world is something that we all have to
27:39
navigate. And I think housing, I mean, we
27:41
have an affordable housing crisis.
27:43
We also have just like supported housing crisis as well.
27:47
There are a lot of people who need services and they're just
27:51
not out there, so I'm thinking a lot about housing.
27:55
I'm also interested, very interested and kind of making
27:58
some steps towards. I want us to be one of the first
28:01
people do. Doing psychedelic assisted
28:03
therapy legally in North Carolina.
28:06
I think there's a lot of promise.
28:07
I mean, I think it's funny because at the guy who has a
28:11
Psychiatry practice, now, right? Like doesn't really like
28:14
Psychiatry very much. There's a great armchair expert
28:17
episode that just came out and basically says, 10% of drugs
28:21
work. I mean, I think 10% is it?
28:24
Maybe we change it a few times, and we get there, right?
28:27
But ultimately, like, I think we're putting like way too much
28:30
emphasis on the pharmacology, Aspect not enough, emphasis on
28:34
social determinants of health and all the community stuff.
28:37
Like I think we have gotten so disconnected and social media
28:40
and Technology. Only makes it more so that like
28:43
we forget like we're social primates like we came out of the
28:46
primordial stew, you know like we're animals and like we forget
28:50
that because we're so, you know, now we're just on our phones and
28:53
we forget about community and in all the things that used to
28:56
bring us together and like the shared Humanity.
28:59
So I'm thinking a lot about like how do we how do We advance A
29:02
Narrative of Wellness of human flourishing and Leverage The
29:07
Health Care system because that's what it's there for.
29:09
Yeah, there's not much going on. Yeah, just a little.
29:12
Yeah, yeah. As you just said, well, I'm
29:14
going to slow down a little. Yeah, 100%.
29:18
I'm curious guys. Like and it's actually, I think
29:21
this is a good question for for both of you is like, you know,
29:24
business as we know it, especially post covid pandemic.
29:27
Like so many businesses have endured these significant.
29:29
See changes new technologies, or Our kind of disrupting
29:33
everything you guys are both CEOs, for, at least partially
29:38
like, substance use treatment places.
29:39
And I'm wondering what kind of wider effects you guys see for
29:42
the business at large coming up. Do you well at least and I think
29:50
we're we can always follow the trends of Medicare and Medicaid.
29:53
So I think we're actually a long way in behavioral health for
29:56
like everyone wants to talk about disruptive technology
29:59
adaptive learning curriculum. I think there's a lot of Promise
30:02
in it but I just go back to that's why I'm back to like the
30:07
real world. Like that's where I feel like
30:09
you know, we need we need these third spaces.
30:12
We need these places to get together.
30:15
And we need, we need good housing.
30:18
I think we're going to see. I mean in California now.
30:20
I believe Medicaid's covering housing.
30:23
I think we're going to see a lot of trends like that.
30:25
I think we're I think we're actually about to we're going to
30:29
see a pretty big sea change in how we're looking at care when I
30:33
say like look at you know, Medicare Medicaid what they're
30:35
doing. They've done this integrated
30:37
care for the past 20 years and like private insurance and
30:41
private programs. Haven't done it.
30:44
So We're under a lot of pressure as insurance because 15 years
30:47
ago, you couldn't use your insurance for mental health or
30:50
substance use treatment. So it was all private pay,
30:51
that's all that existed. Now that insurance covers some
30:54
of this again for better for worse sometimes but now that
30:58
insurance covers it, there's a pressure because now there are
31:01
more programs opening up doing you know, providing substance
31:06
use and mental health services. So I think we're going to see a
31:09
big shift in integrated care. I think it's going to become
31:13
pretty common like I think what we're doing right now.
31:16
What what I'm doing isn't actually unique, it's just more
31:19
unique in this setting. So I think we're going to see a
31:21
lot of integration between primary care and, and, and
31:26
Behavioral Health. And then I do think we're going
31:28
to see a lot of shifts in how we are how we're looking at the
31:33
future. I mean, I think 10, I don't
31:35
think the Health Care system will adapt as quickly as it
31:38
should. But I mean, a eyes already more
31:41
powerful than, you know, all of us.
31:43
So I think it's foolish to think that that it's probably not
31:47
better at algorithmic, thinking then we are, but I think we're
31:52
going to need community and I think Behavioral Health like the
31:55
best behavioral health organizations in 15 or 20 years
31:58
are going to be, you know, managing a massive amounts of
32:01
individualized data and they're going to be providing Community
32:04
both for, you know, the people that they're serving and for
32:08
their teams and I think that that piece is how, like,
32:12
organizations are going to continue to adapt and And
32:15
change. But I think this idea that we
32:19
have to see a doctor or a therapist for exactly.
32:22
I think that's all going to change.
32:23
Fee-for-service models are going to change but ultimately like
32:27
people need people and places to go.
32:30
So I think like we're we're also in like the best.
32:33
I mean Healthcare is 20% of GDP almost, you know, their
32:37
behavior, mental health, behavioral health substance use.
32:40
It's only going to continue Rising with as we become a more
32:45
No individualized society and living on our phones.
32:48
And I mean soon, everyone's going to be doing their apple VR
32:52
sets and then it's all over. And I think there's so much more
32:56
awareness, right. Yeah.
32:57
So right and like everybody is, you know, just having these
32:59
conversations, 10 years ago, people weren't having these
33:01
conversations, you know? And that's, that's the reality.
33:04
And now everybody knows there's just so many more tools out
33:07
there. Yes, we're a lot more fucked up
33:10
than we were, you know, pardon my language.
33:12
But we, you know also have a More tools, I think and there's
33:16
a lot more resources which is great but I mean in my you know
33:19
I love like connection is everything.
33:21
Right connection is recovery right in my opinion.
33:24
And and you know I'm really of, you know, from the school of,
33:28
you know, I really think that the smaller more kind of
33:32
Boutique model of of programming, is really more
33:36
effective. So I think that we're going to
33:39
see, you know, just talking about headwinds.
33:41
You know, we've seen so much private Equity money, come into
33:44
this field. And you know, these
33:45
organizations a lot of these smaller programs are getting
33:48
gobbled up by these larger entities and all that and
33:50
creating these monster healthcare companies and it's
33:53
just really hard to do. Really good treatment when
33:56
you've got nine hundred beds across the country, right?
33:59
I mean it just is man. I mean we have 31 beds here at
34:02
new Waters and like you know every day you like you have no
34:07
idea what is really going to be happening day to day and there's
34:09
so many variables all the time and I mean, you have to have a
34:12
really incredible team. To manage all that stuff and
34:15
you've got, you know, 900 beds. I can't even wrap my head around
34:19
how you would manage something like that, you know.
34:21
So you know my hope is that, you know, people will really kind of
34:25
wisen up to the quality of care in a lot of instances.
34:29
And I think we do the really good job at that and hopefully
34:31
people get connected with with organizations like ours.
34:34
You can help them navigate the complexities of all this stuff,
34:37
you know. So I'm just questioning.
34:40
Yeah, I think one of the things that stands out about both these
34:43
places and it really is Both, and I think that's very special,
34:46
especially in a detox setting, as we get a community that's
34:48
built. There are guys, Green Hill is
34:50
the only home that they felt safe.
34:52
Yeah. And we're a seven day detox, and
34:55
people are calling us. Three months later just to ask
34:57
how we're doing or they're sending us candy and stuff.
34:59
Like we can get him out of here. And yeah that's also maybe a
35:02
current School difficulty that we have right now but but it
35:06
might have a TV where I'm going. We do spoil him sometimes before
35:10
the next level, I care. When will I get my phone?
35:12
You'll never get your phone, right?
35:14
Not at all. All but that we build a
35:16
community and there were able to participate positively in these
35:19
people's lives. I mean it really is.
35:22
You know, I think more and more as I work in this industry more
35:24
and more. I think what a true blessing it
35:25
is to be able to do that for a living you know.
35:28
And I think to that like you were you and and then and your
35:31
crew and Lewis Finch and you know all of you guys you kind of
35:35
opened your programs you know, within the last kind of ten
35:38
years, you know, there really wasn't a whole lot here.
35:41
But for now you know, if anything, you know, and you guys
35:44
have really Built this recovery field or Behavioral Health you
35:48
know model here in Raleigh and it's and you guys had a lot to
35:51
do with why we open new Waters here.
35:53
You know and I love relationship with you prior to and you know,
35:56
Louis was always tell me you got to do this.
35:58
You got to do this and, you know, finally, we were able to
36:00
make it happen but but yeah, it's just, it's really cool to
36:04
see like everything that you guys have built here and you're,
36:06
and the reason one of the other reasons I wanted to start this
36:09
here was because it's such a collaborative, you know, area
36:12
and and everybody Has really good intentions everybody not
36:17
everybody but but everybody that we work with, for the most part
36:19
is, you know, super ethical and and it's just doing this work
36:23
for all the right reasons. Yes, you know, and and it's not
36:26
just kind of getting people in the door.
36:28
Yes. You know what is what is going
36:30
to serve this client best and you know we're sending clients
36:32
all over the country because you know that's what we need to do
36:36
to set them up with a good trajectory forward.
36:39
Absolutely, you know, Well you know this has been a great to
36:44
catch up with you and chat here. Thank you for coming in today
36:48
trip and we're can everybody find your information and we can
36:53
go to Trip J.com T RI P PJ.com if you want some of the personal
36:58
musing, let's and also some behind-the-scenes looks at what
37:01
we're doing at the advice a collective.
37:04
And then there's aim well being that calm and Greenhill
37:07
recovery.com if you're looking for our specific programs.
37:10
Great. Yeah.
37:11
We're gonna have all the all his information on the show notes.
37:15
Obviously everything will be put up on all streaming platforms
37:19
and you can find us at finding new Waters.com.
37:23
Thanks so much and we will talk to you guys next week.
37:25
Thank you.