Latest / The Christian Reeve Podcast / Erik Donaldson | The Christian Reeve Podcast | #98 |

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Erik Donaldson | The Christian Reeve Podcast | #98 | · The Christian Reeve Podcast

• 0:03
  Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Christian read
• 0:06
  podcast. Today's guest is host of the
• 0:09
  hard, Mark podcast all the way from Seattle.
• 0:12
  His name is Eric Donaldson. Welcome to the show are carried
• 0:15
  in. Hey, thank you, Christian to I'm
• 0:17
  doing very well on this. This fine, Saturday, pleased to
• 0:20
  see your bright and Shining face.
• 0:22
  Your hair looks much better than mine but I'm not discourage me.
• 0:25
  I'm, I'm going to bring my A-Plus performance to your
• 0:28
  program here today. I like your hair to think it's
• 0:31
  Charming. You got Look at the beard game,
• 0:33
  the big games growing strong either.
• 0:35
  That's true. I'm surprised.
• 0:37
  You know, here we are at the end of the pandemic.
• 0:39
  Did you attempt to beard at any point?
• 0:41
  Or I can grow a bit but I'll be honest, once it gets that up
• 0:45
  full stage it's just too itchy. No one helps enough about that,
• 0:48
  you know? It's like, yeah, okay, great.
• 0:50
  I look, I look a million bucks but I don't feel it.
• 0:53
  I feel like it's. Yeah.
• 0:57
  I've heard some people have that issue.
• 1:00
  I think there's lotions and potions that May be able to
• 1:02
  assist with that. So I don't know.
• 1:04
  That may be something to look into but I just I can't justify
• 1:07
  spending my money on beer, do I get it?
• 1:11
  But don't get me wrong. But if you if you want to grow
• 1:14
  like a magnificent beard props to you go for in.
• 1:19
  But at the same time I mean it's just a lot of effort.
• 1:25
  I mean, ice like nowadays, they've got products.
• 1:27
  I know in America. They've got, was it manscaped?
• 1:30
  Oh yeah. Deal with On the Region's the
• 1:33
  nether regions. And don't get me wrong, you need
• 1:35
  to clean that stuff. Okay, that's tough.
• 1:37
  Criminally a good idea. If there's one takeaway from the
• 1:40
  podcast here today, ladies and gents please clean your stuff.
• 1:44
  You clean. Yeah.
• 1:46
  Bij necessarily lotions but definitely clean soap water the
• 1:50
  works. That's also a theme of my party
• 1:53
  dress. I'll be enough.
• 1:54
  Many, many episodes in the morning in the morning at least
• 1:58
  five minutes. Yeah what watch bigger is.
• 2:02
  Let me write some rinsing soap is preferred but yeah, I don't
• 2:08
  know, I'm not even sure this is going in a weird tangent already
• 2:11
  but like I met I imagine that you could use the same because
• 2:14
  like I shampoo appear that I'm also shampooing the beard.
• 2:18
  Generally speaking many days that I don't even, you know, do
• 2:21
  anything special to the beard occasionally?
• 2:24
  I'll do the fancy lotion. That my wife gets me, but that's
• 2:27
  that's on very rare occasions for like date nights.
• 2:30
  Yeah, yeah. It's bet the pace, we're
• 2:33
  discipline because it because now it's totally cool to do all
• 2:36
  that stuff. And there's no like stigma
• 2:38
  against it and then they used to be.
• 2:40
  Yeah, and I don't get me wrong, I don't have anything against
• 2:43
  it, like, do what you want. I just, I think, I guess, I'm
• 2:45
  just kind of lazy with certain things, but at the same time,
• 2:48
  like, I do spend, obviously, the right money on hair care, but
• 2:54
  only because, I've seen what happens if you don't do.
• 2:56
  You know what I mean? I'm so I've seen what happens.
• 2:58
  If you buy like cheap stuff. It just kills your hair so I go.
• 3:02
  I get the same is true of of beards and another reason, sure
• 3:06
  do anyway. I'm excited because We going to
• 3:14
  talk wrestling today. Oh, perfect.
• 3:17
  And I thought, well, that's the thing.
• 3:18
  I don't get to normally talk about wrestling.
• 3:21
  A lot of the time when I talked in my disco Community, like, I
• 3:24
  actually have in my disco Community a wrestling Channel,
• 3:27
  but there's only like me and that one other person there and
• 3:29
  we just we mostly just post wrestling memes or just laugh at
• 3:32
  stuff, right? But everyone else in my
• 3:34
  community is like, they were kind of interested in the sense
• 3:37
  that they're intrigued, but they're, you know, if I ever do
• 3:41
  like a live stream and it goes into wrestling, everyone's It
• 3:43
  feels alienated because they're not in the know.
• 3:46
  Okay. And I'd also I just say this
• 3:50
  quite toxic Community the wrestling Community.
• 3:54
  Not always but fear when I have put some stuff out on a few
• 3:58
  occasions got tons of hate and it's weird and this isn't just
• 4:05
  wrestling. There's other fandoms that were
• 4:07
  exactly the same as this, but it seems like if you have an
• 4:09
  opinion, especially a hot take people just destroy.
• 4:13
  You. And, yes, that's basically why I
• 4:17
  don't produce wrestling contest. I'm not saying I never will
• 4:20
  because I would love to, but that's why.
• 4:24
  But you actually are involved in producing content about rest,
• 4:29
  you have a podcast called the hard Mark podcast, which has
• 4:33
  like a really cool premise. So, you basically are trying,
• 4:37
  you have a co-host and you're basically introducing this
• 4:40
  person to wrestling so I guess, yeah.
• 4:42
  They've never seen. Seen resting or yeah.
• 4:45
  Like talk to us about that podcast.
• 4:48
  So this is somebody that I met at a previous previous work and
• 4:53
  so and I just found them and you're probably going to be
• 4:56
  familiar with this reference. A lot of people aren't in that
• 4:58
  always bums me out, but Richard, your vase Karl Pilkington.
• 5:02
  He is the closest thing that I've met in my in my life, to my
• 5:05
  Karl Pilkington and I just find him like a fascinating
• 5:08
  personality. And I've always for the ever
• 5:10
  since I've known this guy, I've wanted to do something.
• 5:13
  That could bring that out and I and eventually I Came Upon the
• 5:17
  idea of okay, what if he was willing and that's the hardest
• 5:20
  part. But if he was willing, could I
• 5:23
  drag him through the mud and just kicking and screaming?
• 5:25
  Could I introduce pro wrestling to him?
• 5:28
  One match at a time you introduced like what happens
• 5:31
  before the match like why are these two people fighting?
• 5:34
  And then he watches the match and then he will both try to
• 5:38
  predict who's going to win and he will also ranked each match.
• 5:42
  So we have at this. Point a list of about 40 or so
• 5:45
  matches that he has ranked to his very scientific criteria.
• 5:50
  Trust me, it's all highly analytical.
• 5:53
  It's actually not. But so we have this total list
• 5:57
  of every single match that he's my control subject.
• 6:00
  He was my guinea pig in this wrestling experiment.
• 6:04
  I'm definitely checking this out afterwards, man.
• 6:06
  This sounds fascinating so many questions.
• 6:09
  Okay, yeah, I guess the biggest question above all else is which
• 6:13
  matches have you chosen to go with as beginners?
• 6:16
  So it I didn't intend to do this initially but what is ended up
• 6:21
  doing is kind of following my path.
• 6:24
  So when I got into pro wrestling I was like six or seven years
• 6:29
  old. I was really really young and my
• 6:31
  earliest pro wrestling memory is Hulk.
• 6:33
  Hogan vs The Ultimate Warrior WrestleMania 6.
• 6:36
  And so basically I've kind of followed those same steps.
• 6:39
  Know, occasionally will look Veer into other territory.
• 6:41
  Like we've watched a couple of more modern New Japan matches.
• 6:44
  We've watched like some other more modern stuff.
• 6:47
  Like one episode that hasn't made are just yet but we
• 6:49
  recently recorded was the main event.
• 6:52
  This past Year's WrestleMania between Bianca Bel-Air and Sasha
• 6:55
  Banks so like occasionally will jump around but like the main
• 6:58
  sort of narrative theme is progressing through like those
• 7:01
  late 80s, early 90s. James matches that meant a lot
• 7:05
  to me when I was like a little kid and inevitably like I always
• 7:08
  end up regretting it inevitably he just completely dumps on
• 7:12
  every single match that like means a lot to me personally and
• 7:17
  I end up heartbroken at the end of the episode just pissed off
• 7:20
  but that that is the attempt right now.
• 7:22
  So we're basically to like the mid-90s as far as kind of that
• 7:26
  main thread. We just watched Bret Hart versus
• 7:29
  Yokozuna which is another episode.
• 7:31
  The be coming out sometime soon. um, Okay so obviously I mean
• 7:37
  obviously he understood wrestling you know because
• 7:41
  everyone knows what it is even if they are into it but given
• 7:46
  that you kind of introduce you introduced him to it.
• 7:48
  Like what? Exactly.
• 7:52
  Are his initial thoughts? I mean, obviously, he's opened
• 7:55
  to checking out. He wouldn't have agreed to be on
• 7:57
  the podcast in the first place. So what are his kind of initial
• 8:01
  thoughts and opinions on matches?
• 8:03
  And what's I suppose, if you could sum up what he's seen so
• 8:07
  far, what was his kind of General take away from him?
• 8:13
  I would say so far. So he I would put Ryan my
• 8:17
  co-host as being very, very emblematic of like what
• 8:20
  Outsiders think of pro wrestling like when they think of pro
• 8:23
  wrestling? They think of we it's like the
• 8:24
  kleenex of pro wrestling. They don't realize that there's
• 8:26
  other companies out there, you know, there.
• 8:30
  That's so true. Yeah, so like that was a big
• 8:33
  Revelation for him. I think, overall, mainly because
• 8:37
  we've jumped around between so many different eras and so many
• 8:40
  different companies. I think he finds the whole
• 8:41
  thing, ridiculous. Yet, fascinating, I think,
• 8:45
  before we started this whole thing, if he came upon
• 8:47
  wrestling, he would just skip right through it.
• 8:50
  Now, if he sees wrestling, he'll pause for like fifteen thirty
• 8:53
  seconds, and be like, okay, I need to talk to Eric about this
• 8:56
  and then he'll move on. So I would not classify him as a
• 8:59
  wrestling fan, I'm not converted him, which is fine with me.
• 9:02
  I don't want him to watch wrestling on his free time.
• 9:04
  I want to be the cultivator, the one introducing these matches to
• 9:07
  him impossible. So yeah, I think he just finds
• 9:11
  the whole thing way more in-depth, like, almost Just like
• 9:13
  a living comic book. I don't think he necessarily
• 9:16
  realize that before that there was so many intricate story
• 9:19
  lines and everything leading up to each individual match.
• 9:22
  He's it's a good, it's a good point as well.
• 9:24
  I think the reason why your podcast is so interesting, it's
• 9:29
  because it tackles this really big issue that exists in society
• 9:33
  which you just top touched on just there is that obviously the
• 9:39
  height of wrestling popularity as far as the mainstream.
• 9:43
  Concern was the late 90s early 2000s, what we would call The
• 9:46
  Attitude Era. So for those who aren't in the
• 9:49
  know what that basically meant is if you would take shows like
• 9:54
  Jerry, Springer, and whatever. And basically what people used
• 9:57
  to refer to as crash TV, that was essentially what wrestling
• 10:01
  was in the late 90s early 2000s. But it was a time when not
• 10:07
  everyone, 100% knew that it was fixed, predetermined people
• 10:12
  weren't 100% Percent sure on that.
• 10:14
  Just yet, even though the cat had been let out of the bag, in
• 10:16
  the mid 90s by Vince McMahon, it wasn't a hundred percent.
• 10:19
  Clear just yet so it and it also kind of especially with the WWF
• 10:24
  and WCW. It was part of the cultural
• 10:29
  shift, the counterculture movement going on at that time,
• 10:32
  what, with MTV and everything and wrestling was a massive part
• 10:36
  of that and it was as big as say the Super Bowl in America or
• 10:42
  something like that. No.
• 10:44
  And after that, after that came and everyone kind of realize.
• 10:49
  Oh, this is predetermined. Oh, this is and then obviously
• 10:51
  the whole thing about being it being fake came along, everyone
• 10:55
  just left a bunch of people left.
• 10:58
  But it wasn't just that it was also the death of WCW caused a
• 11:02
  big shift and that obviously I'm trying to fit a lot into it
• 11:07
  right now, but you're spot-on. So we're giving everyone.
• 11:10
  A cliff notes version here if you get you want to look into it
• 11:12
  more, More. I recommend actually reading the
• 11:15
  book, The Death of WCW and just looking into the Attitude Era in
• 11:20
  general. It's a fascinating.
• 11:21
  Kind of Glimpse, not only into wrestling but also just culture
• 11:25
  in the late 90s and early 2000s in America.
• 11:28
  It's very fascinating. But anyway, I would say when WCW
• 11:33
  died in 2001, there were already a lot of wrestling fans leaving
• 11:38
  anyway. And it was because of this crash
• 11:40
  TV thing, it was because wrestling had Stopped being what
• 11:44
  it used to be back in the 80s and 90s with with what WCW with
• 11:48
  NWA with. Yeah, New Japan with all these
• 11:51
  different promotions around the world and it started to just
• 11:54
  become a kind of a joke, like a. It was laughing at itself, but
• 12:00
  too much and it's not actually being about wrestling.
• 12:04
  Like there were so many shows during those times,
• 12:07
  particularly, when they were headed by a guy called Vince
• 12:09
  Russo, where there was just no wrestling.
• 12:13
  In the in the show's it was just just I don't know what you call
• 12:16
  it, just a big old joke and I suppose.
• 12:22
  That is where a lot of that popularity left and the Lasting
• 12:28
  Impression. This is the bigger point.
• 12:29
  I want to make on all this the lasting impression that a lot of
• 12:32
  people had who stopped watching wrestling.
• 12:35
  And also the outsider's perspective looking in is that
• 12:39
  old wrestling is just this like silly little thing that's fake
• 12:43
  that no one should check out because, why bother?
• 12:45
  Like it's not like the UFC which is real, it's just this silly
• 12:49
  program where nothing is This is serious and it's just the laugh
• 12:54
  but it's there's nothing there's nothing to stay for, it's just
• 12:57
  silly. But the weird thing about this
• 13:00
  is that Especially with WWE, its continued to actually grow as
• 13:06
  far as money is concerned. Whilst it might not be as
• 13:09
  popular anymore. Yeah, they're making Billy what,
• 13:14
  billions most recently. And that most people listening
• 13:18
  to this won't realize wrestling. As an international thing is
• 13:22
  huge, where it's concerned in the money Department.
• 13:26
  Most recently in, I believe it was 2017 or 2018 WWE signed a
• 13:31
  deal with fox For 1 billion or two billion.
• 13:35
  I believe over the course of five years basically television
• 13:39
  deal with exclusive rights to Premiere their show SmackDown.
• 13:45
  Which now has become their main show used to be their secondary
• 13:47
  shown. Now it's their main show and
• 13:51
  it's crazy because it doesn't really matter what that company
• 13:54
  does anymore. You know, they can just put on
• 13:57
  faster cool display and they have been recently right?
• 14:00
  And that's another story will get in To but and it's kind of
• 14:06
  interesting because they just make money off the top on bunny
• 14:09
  or top of money. Obviously there's until the
• 14:11
  Saudis they have where they do shows there and they get tens of
• 14:14
  Millions for doing that money that they make in India.
• 14:17
  The list goes on and on and on and on like there's so much
• 14:20
  money in this but the popularity is not there anymore.
• 14:24
  If you look at TV ratings you know the most you could ever get
• 14:27
  watching One program would be 3 million in America, which
• 14:31
  doesn't even hit on The I think it was seven or eight million
• 14:34
  nine million, they used to draw in the height of the attitude
• 14:38
  era in America. So now that we've given
• 14:41
  everyone, a cliff notes version, that's kind of the business of
• 14:47
  wrestling, the success of wrestling.
• 14:49
  Now, the outsider's perspective looking in, what I tend to hear
• 14:53
  from people such as probably what your friend said that when
• 14:56
  you first spoke to him about it was, huh?
• 14:59
  But isn't that thing? Fake like that?
• 15:01
  You know, everyone kind of found out that was fake.
• 15:03
  So why do people keep watching it?
• 15:05
  What's the appeal? And I guess what, the amazing
• 15:09
  thing with with your podcast is, it's basically tackling that
• 15:13
  exact thing, it's saying. Okay, let's put this to the
• 15:16
  test. Let's try to convince someone
• 15:19
  that there is a reason to watch wrestling.
• 15:22
  Would you agree with that? Yeah, yeah.
• 15:24
  I think that's one of the, the main means sort of things that
• 15:27
  we're tackling. Absolutely.
• 15:28
  You know, I have to having spent over 30 years watching this
• 15:31
  thing so far. For me, it's almost suit serves
• 15:35
  so many different purposes of like justifying why I watched
• 15:39
  instead so much time growing up, you know, watching this thing
• 15:42
  kind of introducing through the lens of a new viewer.
• 15:45
  You know why anyone else would care about this type of thing,
• 15:48
  you know, trying to also debunk. Some of the really common myths
• 15:52
  and misconceptions about like the trampoline, rang and fake
• 15:55
  blood and stuff like that. And, you know, some of that
• 15:58
  stuff is just insane to people who don't know about it.
• 16:00
  Like, if you tell somebody, hey, when they bleed, that's not
• 16:03
  ketchup or anything. They're actually slicing their
• 16:05
  head open with a razor blade. A lot of people are like, what?
• 16:08
  And so then it becomes like a. Why would anyone do that to
• 16:12
  themselves type of thing? But the, the reality versus the
• 16:16
  fantasy of wrestling, definitely.
• 16:18
  I'd say play a part in to every episode that we do and he's like
• 16:24
  us wrestling fans now. But hardcore fans, we know the
• 16:27
  ins and outs of the business because it's been exposed,
• 16:29
  because it's so open now. But at the same time, The
• 16:34
  biggest realization for many fans is that it isn't fake.
• 16:38
  Now what I need to kind of explain that a bit further for
• 16:41
  non wrestling fans like you just touched on, okay, things like
• 16:44
  bleeding. What do they call it?
• 16:46
  Blading, that's obviously not failure.
• 16:51
  When you see a wrestler jump from the outside onto their
• 16:55
  opponent. That's a real fool.
• 16:57
  They're taking, you know? Yeah, they have, they might have
• 16:59
  some padding if they're lucky, but that's a real fool.
• 17:02
  They're taking and they often get injuries all the time what
• 17:07
  they hit each other with a steel chair.
• 17:10
  That's legit. They can gimmick.
• 17:12
  Some of the things that they use.
• 17:14
  Obviously, if they hit someone with it a trashcan or two by
• 17:18
  four, you know, it'll be with the cheapest materials possible.
• 17:22
  And, you know, it's not, it's not that that's faked.
• 17:25
  But but this is the argument I always give as well, is that how
• 17:29
  is wrestling any different from a film?
• 17:33
  Or TV show. Absolutely.
• 17:36
  And I mean, if you see The Rock in an action movie, he's not
• 17:40
  really kicking that guy in the face, you know, he's not really
• 17:43
  shooting that guy. Mmm.
• 17:46
  So I don't understand why people don't apply the same rules to
• 17:51
  wrestling and this whole fake thing.
• 17:55
  Like I don't get quite as passionate about other people
• 17:58
  like I just don't care. I'm like, well if you don't get
• 18:00
  wrestling, if you don't watch it then, whatever, you know, don't
• 18:04
  try and destroy this thing that I liked, but there's some people
• 18:08
  that get really passionate about this.
• 18:09
  They get aggressive with the fact that like, it's not fake,
• 18:12
  it's not big. How dare you say that.
• 18:13
  And it's like, I get why they get so passionate, but it's
• 18:17
  like, there's no point trying to explain it to these people that
• 18:20
  don't watch it. We can try, we can give a good
• 18:24
  cause and I could sit for hours and talk about this, but I think
• 18:29
  it's one of those things that you really just have to sit down
• 18:31
  and watch for yourself for a while and and really give it a
• 18:34
  fair go. And then you'll get it, I think,
• 18:37
  yeah, you know, me even the even people that don't, I know so
• 18:42
  many people that have been shown rest in that You know, they're
• 18:45
  not fans, but they get it, they see the appeal because I would
• 18:49
  always put it down to being kind of the way I explain it is
• 18:53
  wrestling, is is basically like live action theater with, with
• 18:58
  like fighting involved in but it has and always will be about
• 19:02
  storylines and people go oh why would you watch the fighting?
• 19:05
  If you know it's fake. It's like you don't understand.
• 19:07
  It's about the stakes. It's like if you go watch a
• 19:10
  boxing match and they're all like Pally before like yeah.
• 19:14
  Have a great fight like who wants to watch that fight?
• 19:17
  You want to watch the fight where the two guys are swearing
• 19:19
  and ethane and yeah, they want to kill each other.
• 19:22
  That's the fight. You want to see?
• 19:23
  And resting is exactly the same. The only difference is that
• 19:26
  okay? Yeah, it's pretty determined
• 19:29
  you. The results are there but like
• 19:31
  that doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things.
• 19:33
  Like, I don't know, like about you but for me it's always about
• 19:37
  being able to suspend your disbelief if they're doing a
• 19:40
  good story and they're committing to their roles. just
• 19:45
  like in a movie and Yeah, it doing like logical things within
• 19:50
  the story, both in the ring and in storylines, you just lose
• 19:53
  yourself in it. You forget that, you know, this
• 19:56
  isn't real or whatever, you know?
• 19:58
  Yeah. And I feel down and I'll go
• 20:00
  ahead. Oh no, no, please, go ahead.
• 20:03
  The matches were, I give more back story to Ryan.
• 20:08
  Those are the ones that intrinsically.
• 20:10
  He always ranks higher because he has, he has knowledge of what
• 20:13
  the stakes of that contest are the matches where I'm just like,
• 20:17
  oh, This guy and this guy didn't like each other.
• 20:19
  They're going to fight bubble. Ah, he just he does.
• 20:21
  He's not invested in so I have found that the more time I spend
• 20:24
  kind of delving into the back stories of these characters,
• 20:27
  explaining why they don't like each other, that sort of thing.
• 20:30
  Generally, speaking that does up those rankings.
• 20:32
  So, I absolutely agree, agree with that.
• 20:35
  What are the some of the actual viewer?
• 20:37
  What are some of the matches? He's right at highest.
• 20:41
  So and actually it kind of ties in with another thing that you
• 20:43
  saw. So I remember and like, I
• 20:45
  wouldn't necessarily recommend episode 12 people Like, we were
• 20:48
  a little rough in terms of our studio set up back then.
• 20:51
  But for anyone curious, the very first match that we ever watched
• 20:55
  was Hulk, Hogan versus Andre The Giant WrestleMania 3 because if
• 20:58
  you're if you're trying to get into like what pro wrestling is,
• 21:01
  I think that that's a very basic good introduction to what is
• 21:06
  this thing? And I think that match played
• 21:10
  into a lot of the stereotypes, should we say of like, what an
• 21:14
  outsider would think wrestling is For Better or For Worse?
• 21:17
  And so, a lot of the She was kind of like chuckling through
• 21:19
  and be like, oh, of course like da-da-da-.
• 21:21
  And so it really just kind of played into like, oh, I'm so
• 21:23
  knowledgeable about this thing that realistically, he had no
• 21:26
  knowledge about whatsoever. And so then the second match,
• 21:29
  which actually was our number one rated match for the majority
• 21:32
  of our runs so far was Will Osprey versus shingo Takashi at
• 21:39
  New Japan. Battled The Super Juniors which
• 21:41
  is an incredible match part of me.
• 21:43
  Regrets jumping to that extreme but I just remember as As a
• 21:48
  wrestling fan I got a little defensive about like, okay, this
• 21:52
  guy thinks he knows so much about right?
• 21:54
  Yeah. It's like chuckling and laughing
• 21:56
  about this thing. Let me show you something that
• 21:58
  you could never possibly hope to do in a million years and like
• 22:01
  he loved that match and I think that's kind of what gave him an
• 22:05
  appreciation for like the true athleticism and what wrestling
• 22:10
  in the modern era has become. It's not just very large man,
• 22:14
  kind of throwing fake punches and tossing each other.
• 22:16
  Around a ring, there's a lot more to it.
• 22:18
  In addition to kind of the story lines leading up to those
• 22:21
  things. It's you know, New Japan,
• 22:22
  especially is definitely more of a sporting atmosphere than say,
• 22:25
  a w would I would say? But that was probably the number
• 22:28
  one match for most of the time right now, I believe it is the
• 22:33
  ladder match between Razor Ramon and Shawn Michaels.
• 22:36
  It's a couple of things to come deconstruct and I just want to
• 22:39
  tackle them head on. So first of all, obviously New
• 22:42
  Japan, for those who aren't familiar, New Japan is the
• 22:44
  biggest wrestling promotion in Japan.
• 22:47
  There's also all Japan and a few others, but that's mainly the
• 22:50
  biggest one. They also have a bit of an
• 22:52
  American base here, but mostly it's all over there.
• 22:55
  And there's many American fighters and British Fighters
• 22:58
  such as well, well, Osprey who fight over there, and as you
• 23:02
  said, it's very sporting based and I've always liked music.
• 23:06
  And because I think that they're the one last wrestling promotion
• 23:09
  that treats. It extremely professionally very
• 23:12
  seriously. It basically it looks exactly
• 23:16
  presentation-wise. It looks exactly the same as
• 23:19
  boxing and it always has they've never changed that.
• 23:23
  And there's still always this kind of Big Steaks thing.
• 23:26
  So whenever you get two fighters over there like say Lesnar
• 23:29
  Goldberg, it'll be, it'll feel big and that they always kind of
• 23:34
  manage to to make that. Those big Stakes matches, but
• 23:37
  yeah, the standard kind of product over there is very
• 23:40
  fast-paced, high flying. And that's kind of what?
• 23:43
  Yeah, well, modern era is now is high-flying resting.
• 23:46
  But an interesting thing that links that say will Osprey much
• 23:51
  and Hulk Hogan match is the story that they tell in the
• 23:55
  ring. Like one of the biggest pet
• 23:56
  peeves. I have about modern wrestling is
• 23:59
  when there's just too much high-flying and spots and not
• 24:05
  enough. This is y and this is
• 24:07
  controversial but I don't care. I'm going to say it.
• 24:09
  This is why I can't stand watching.
• 24:11
  Kenny Omega matches or Young Bucks matches for this exact
• 24:15
  reason. It's not that they don't have
• 24:16
  potential there. They are good wrestlers, it's
• 24:19
  that whenever you watch their matches, nothing means anything.
• 24:24
  If you watch Hulk Hogan and Andre the Giant, yeah, it's not
• 24:27
  a visual spectacular but the moves that meant something meant
• 24:30
  something. Everyone remembers, Hulk Hogan
• 24:33
  lifting, Andre the Giant and throwing them over his head.
• 24:35
  Everyone members that name me one move that you remember from
• 24:39
  a Young Bucks match in the past 10 years, that there might be a
• 24:42
  few, but mostly you won't remember much because it's all
• 24:46
  every match is just 100 moves. Five, fifteen hundred miles an
• 24:50
  hour, you know, there's no storytelling go going on in the,
• 24:54
  in the, in the ring. And I've watched enough Young
• 24:56
  Bucks matches now, to kind of same without Kenny, I'm a guy.
• 25:00
  I could probably pick out in the whole of aw, which is, I think
• 25:04
  it's about two years now. There's a Two Young Bucks,
• 25:07
  matches that, I enjoyed that every other day I just turn it
• 25:10
  off as soon as they come on the screen.
• 25:13
  I totally agree with Jim cornette's kind of opinions on
• 25:16
  this. I just, I can't stand it because
• 25:20
  the storytelling aspect is the most important part of
• 25:23
  wrestling. It's if you don't have the
• 25:25
  storytelling, it's you might as well just not bother because.
• 25:28
  Yeah, then it does become just As again, as doing conet says
• 25:34
  like a gymnastics routine, essentially, for sure.
• 25:38
  Know I tell I think that there is a happy medium there between
• 25:41
  like having really cool moves and like showing off athleticism
• 25:44
  and everything and kind of having a running story that you
• 25:47
  were trying to tell in the ring. I think that melding those two.
• 25:52
  There are some wrestlers who are like great at that sort of
• 25:55
  thing. But definitely in the more
• 25:57
  modern era it has gone more towards the cool move side than
• 26:00
  it has like these Side of things but there's so many people that
• 26:04
  get it right, you know, Darby Allen perfect example.
• 26:09
  Every time you see a Dobby Allen match, right?
• 26:12
  All in. Alan Alan.
• 26:13
  Yeah, he he'll do the same moves.
• 26:18
  Everyone does like, for instance, Toby sua Cedar but
• 26:20
  when he does it, it's devastating.
• 26:23
  And you know why the biggest thing above all else?
• 26:26
  That we haven't touched on? It's because people sell the
• 26:29
  moves. Yes, He's young and Young Bucks
• 26:33
  matches and Kenny Omega matches. They'll do all these moves.
• 26:37
  Now what do I mean by sell you ask very simple, if I kick you
• 26:42
  in the face really hard. You're going to you're going to
• 26:45
  lay down on the floor and be like, wow.
• 26:47
  And you're going to be cradling that you're not just going to
• 26:50
  get up after about 30 seconds and then start doing your moves,
• 26:53
  are you that's going to hurt and that's what makes Kenny Omega
• 26:58
  matches and Young Bucks matches unbelievable.
• 27:00
  Because if it in a real If you did that, it would mess your
• 27:03
  opponent up and that is what I mean by the lack of Storytelling
• 27:07
  in their matches. It's because they don't sell
• 27:10
  enough, and it's not just, it's not just the Young Bucks as
• 27:13
  well. It's the people that they fires
• 27:14
  way, anytime those people are in those matches with with them,
• 27:18
  it's like, okay, they've all just kind of agreed.
• 27:20
  We're not going to sell anything.
• 27:21
  We're not going to make this look in any way believable.
• 27:25
  We're just going to do all these impressive moves and then
• 27:27
  eventually someone wins and it's to me.
• 27:30
  That's not what a good. Wrestling matches.
• 27:32
  There's, there's nothing interesting about that.
• 27:35
  It's interesting when when a you genuinely don't know who's going
• 27:38
  to win. Be the story that they tell in
• 27:42
  the match is logical, there's a logical progression.
• 27:45
  So what what do I mean by that? Well, If you're going into it
• 27:50
  and you know that the bad guys are going to win, right?
• 27:53
  Logically the match is going to follow in a progression where
• 27:58
  makes you believe that maybe the good guys going to win, hmm,
• 28:02
  which would mean that he would get a lot of offense.
• 28:04
  And what we call near Falls and moments in the match where it
• 28:07
  looks like, oh maybe he's nearly going to win, but then he just
• 28:10
  doesn't because otherwise, if you always know kind of who's
• 28:15
  going to win, what's the point of watching?
• 28:17
  Right. I mean, there's there's so many
• 28:19
  elements to this and it that's why I laugh when people like
• 28:23
  shiny and I don't get it, like The Outsiders because it's like
• 28:26
  there's so many elements to what actually makes wrestling good.
• 28:30
  Yeah, there's so much bad wrestling out there.
• 28:32
  That bothers the fans as well. There's so many not just a www,
• 28:37
  is guilty of it now and again, I'll absolutely.
• 28:40
  But I do find a lot of the time with WWE.
• 28:44
  There is a lot more selling and believability.
• 28:46
  Mmm. And I think that comes down to
• 28:48
  the way that they train people in the way that they do things.
• 28:52
  I think there's definitely an independent style and a WWE
• 28:55
  style and there's definitely a lot of crossover more now than
• 28:58
  ever before. But there are differences
• 29:01
  especially like what you mentioned with this telling one
• 29:03
  thing that I found about Ryan Ryan my co-host I would not put
• 29:08
  him up as a Bastion of like the common man he is a he is a weird
• 29:13
  person sometimes but The one thing and I totally agree with
• 29:17
  you about selling, I think that there needs to be more selling
• 29:20
  in wrestling, to kind of register, what's happening,
• 29:22
  everything like that. That is one of the things that
• 29:24
  he hates most. If you are like, let's say you
• 29:27
  move happens and you're staying down for like ever after that.
• 29:31
  He's just like what are they doing?
• 29:33
  Looks it's been like 30 seconds or not back up again.
• 29:35
  Like that's the one thing that he finds more frustrating than
• 29:39
  anything is when he thinks that they are selling too much.
• 29:42
  Like at the guys are staying down like that.
• 29:43
  They, let's say we both like Clothesline each other in the
• 29:46
  bolt down. He's just, he gets so worked up
• 29:49
  about those guys selling more than what he perceives to be.
• 29:52
  They should be heard at that point in time.
• 29:54
  Now, he'll tell you that, like, oh, he could do all those things
• 29:57
  and blah, blah, blah. I know his cardio is trash.
• 30:00
  He would be huffing and puffing within like, 30 seconds left
• 30:03
  starting. But like, you couldn't tell him
• 30:05
  that in the moment. So, I there's definitely an
• 30:07
  element where if you see people that environment you're like,
• 30:09
  oh, that's not so hard. But in reality, there's so much
• 30:13
  just running back and forth and Like leaping and jumping and
• 30:16
  like the lifting and everything like that.
• 30:18
  Where I think a lot of people gloss over that where it maybe
• 30:22
  those guys like legitimately catching their breath and it
• 30:25
  kind of because you're watching a performance, you forget like,
• 30:29
  oh these, are he been people that have to breathe have to do
• 30:33
  these other things sometimes? Yeah, and the interesting thing
• 30:37
  to your to your co-hosts credit, actually there are certain small
• 30:42
  moves that sometimes wrestlers do-over So I've noticed that as
• 30:46
  well because a lot of the time it's the devastating moves.
• 30:49
  It's the other way around. If they do something devastating
• 30:51
  and then there are pasta like 30 seconds.
• 30:53
  So you think oh I guess that move just doesn't hurt then like
• 30:56
  you know, I guess it's no reason to care about that.
• 30:59
  Sure. But with the smaller moves.
• 31:01
  Yes. Sometimes they get like smacked
• 31:03
  in the face but then there. Yeah.
• 31:06
  On the floor for like a minute and you're like oh hold on.
• 31:10
  Yeah. Like so when he did that,
• 31:12
  massive splash of the top of the Ring, Earlier and you got up
• 31:16
  after 30 seconds that didn't hurt but a little slap in the
• 31:19
  face and you're down for a minute and it's like it then it
• 31:22
  becomes so clear that they're just they're just thinking about
• 31:25
  all these get to this thing and then we need to get to this
• 31:26
  thing. You know.
• 31:27
  They're not paying attention on selling psychology and I just
• 31:33
  frustrates me so much like that. There's a way I can see it.
• 31:37
  I can see on your selling them frustration of this experience
• 31:41
  on your face right now. I can, I can tell it is true
• 31:44
  because new one Yeah, I get it I think going back.
• 31:47
  So I in my opinion I think the greatest in terms of total body
• 31:53
  of work. I think in my opinion the
• 31:55
  greatest wrestler of all time is Shawn Michaels.
• 31:58
  However I think is far as like a just a moment in time as far as
• 32:05
  like a greatest couple year run, who was like the best of all
• 32:08
  time in terms of like the absolute Pinnacle when they were
• 32:11
  at their best. It's hard to argue against.
• 32:14
  Brett are the more that Seen a brat as I'm kind of watching
• 32:17
  these early 90s matches. Brett was somebody who
• 32:20
  absolutely got the selling part everything that he did looks so
• 32:23
  realistic. He managed to blend like the
• 32:26
  athleticism of what he was doing with just common sense and just,
• 32:30
  I could watch Bret Hart matches over and over and over.
• 32:33
  We watched Brett versus Roddy. Piper.
• 32:36
  We watch Bret Hart vs. Mr. Perfect, and I'm just in
• 32:39
  awe. And like, those matches still
• 32:41
  hold up. Now, 30 years later, and it's
• 32:44
  incredible. What he He's able to do you know
• 32:47
  in the ring when he was at his absolute Peak.
• 32:50
  I couldn't agree more. I mean I suppose the thing about
• 32:54
  wrestling is you know and and obviously for those who don't
• 32:57
  know, wrestling obviously originally came from the circus.
• 33:00
  It was kind of like seen as a small attraction, amongst
• 33:03
  everything else in an obviously wrestling became its own thing,
• 33:06
  but it still is a like a circus in the sense that you have lots
• 33:09
  of different things. So, like, fair enough, if you
• 33:11
  don't like the high-flying stuff, you've got more technical
• 33:13
  base wrestling, you got other things.
• 33:15
  And there's funny stuff and silly stuff and like there's a
• 33:19
  bit, something for everyone and wrestling there's always been
• 33:22
  very good at catering for that. With that being said, the
• 33:26
  argument, who's the best wrestler that ultimately does
• 33:29
  come down to what your preference is, like those
• 33:31
  wrestlers that you mentioned there, that I would put them in
• 33:35
  the category of technical wrestlers.
• 33:37
  So if you want a visually, Stunning performance that does
• 33:44
  make you feel as well. I, when I think about Shawn
• 33:46
  Michaels matches, I always think about the story behind the
• 33:49
  matches. There was always big stories
• 33:52
  going into them that made you care like Shawn, Michaels wasn't
• 33:55
  like the most amazing wrestler ever it, you know, that a lot of
• 34:00
  his moods that there was, you could probably put all of his
• 34:03
  main moves down to about five to seven different moves, you know?
• 34:06
  I mean butter, yeah, it's he put so much passion into everything
• 34:10
  that he did. Everything meant something, they
• 34:13
  meant that much more, and that. And, and that's why you always
• 34:18
  think about those those moments, like when he, he, you know,
• 34:23
  superkicked Ric Flair in and did his career or, you know, when he
• 34:29
  had that that match against Razor Ramon like, you know,
• 34:31
  their wrestling is always about moments and Visually stunning
• 34:35
  things. But it always does come back to
• 34:38
  that story. And as you mentioned that Bret
• 34:40
  Hart, like yeah, he always approach those matches in a
• 34:44
  logical way and I thought with with Brett it was always less
• 34:49
  about the stories and more about the actual in-ring storytelling.
• 34:53
  I felt like it him, I don't ever remember any particular story
• 34:56
  lines, he was in that I was really interested in maybe not
• 34:59
  even though in the pirate stores jacket I liked I liked he'll
• 35:04
  Brett. I thought that was cool because
• 35:07
  they did something different that, you know, he was a good
• 35:08
  guy in Canada and a bad guy everyone else.
• 35:10
  And I thought that was really cool.
• 35:12
  I thought you know what they should really run with that.
• 35:15
  Like actually there's a wrestler right now in.
• 35:18
  Aw, called Antonia go, go. Who's a British boxer or were
• 35:23
  originally was and you know, a lot of people like him in the
• 35:26
  UK. It was funny though because when
• 35:28
  he came into aw he was acting like a big deal and I'll be
• 35:31
  honest, not many people really remember who he is and the UK
• 35:34
  that no disrespect to him. But it's a he was like a boxer
• 35:38
  and known in like the mid Yes. So, okay, I didn't realize that
• 35:43
  had been that long. Yeah, okay, that makes more
• 35:46
  sense that like, the last thing he did publicly, I think he was
• 35:49
  in Strictly, Come Dancing in the UK and that 2007, okay, yeah.
• 35:56
  So yeah, nothing against them is a great guy, but yeah.
• 36:00
  So, and he was going about like, yeah, I'm a big deal in the UK
• 36:03
  and it's like, wow, anyway, right?
• 36:08
  He came in, and he did. They've done this whole UK.
• 36:11
  S is America gig. And there was a lot of problems
• 36:14
  with this story line, as well. I just want to quickly gloss
• 36:16
  over this before, I get to the main point.
• 36:18
  So he joins this faction who have basically broken off from
• 36:26
  this other big infection. They're the bad guys, you know,
• 36:29
  they've gone against their friends, you know, whatever.
• 36:33
  And he's hate when that happens, but, like, everyone in his crew
• 36:37
  is American and he's British and he'll go out there and and Dis
• 36:41
  the other guy and be like, screw America that are ever wasn't for
• 36:44
  us. You'd be speaking German like
• 36:45
  that, you know, all the standards night ropes, but then
• 36:48
  all the guys behind him are American.
• 36:51
  And I'm thinking, like, yeah, with this doesn't make any sense
• 36:54
  like white that, why would they support a guy whose trash in
• 36:57
  there like they still from America?
• 36:58
  Like, I guess they're just they don't care about America or
• 37:01
  something and that's why there's an article part of the story but
• 37:05
  bringing it back to the original.
• 37:07
  Yeah, I really hope that they do the whole, the same thing in the
• 37:10
  UK. Hope that people like him in the
• 37:12
  UK when aw, eventually comes to Britain because that would be
• 37:16
  cool. I think I've always found it a
• 37:17
  bit silly when when wrestlers come back to their own country
• 37:21
  and they're technically a bad guy, but then they act like, oh
• 37:24
  no, screw you guys as well. And it's like, but why would
• 37:26
  they be like that? I don't.
• 37:28
  It doesn't make any sense, right?
• 37:30
  Yeah, I know having a little bit of national sort of Pride and
• 37:33
  like knowing a hey these are my people like.
• 37:35
  Yeah, I do appreciate that, too. I think it would be harder to
• 37:39
  pull that off with like a uk-based storyline.
• 37:41
  Because I had forgotten how much they were going to Canada back
• 37:44
  in 97 when they're really not Bret Hart storyline.
• 37:46
  It felt like every two three weeks.
• 37:49
  They were like, oh, we're now in Halifax.
• 37:51
  Now we're going to Winnipeg. Now, we're going here and like,
• 37:53
  it felt like every other week, like, barrettes, a good guy.
• 37:56
  Now, Brett's a bad guy now, but like realistically, Brett was
• 37:59
  always wrestling as if he was the bad guy.
• 38:02
  Like if you watch those matches they were definitely
• 38:04
  positioning. Like Steve Austin is a good guy,
• 38:06
  stuff like that. Like he'd be a dick to the fans
• 38:08
  but he would nonetheless like wrestle.
• 38:11
  You know, like a good guy Bret Hart would take shortcuts and
• 38:14
  cheating those matches but he just get cheered for it since
• 38:17
  it's interesting, isn't it? Like I think the same about
• 38:19
  Darby Allen right now. Like he's technically a good guy
• 38:23
  but he wrestles like it, he'll he liked him, everything his
• 38:26
  demeanor, the way he for those who don't know, he'll means bad
• 38:29
  guy that wasn't clear. But yeah, so face means it's
• 38:33
  good guy. He'll means bad guy.
• 38:35
  So yeah, and he literally just throwing stuff around like a bad
• 38:38
  guy the way he does his promos. It's like a bag.
• 38:41
  Guy, and I'm just sitting there like I'm wondering when that
• 38:43
  heel turns coming that's going to be fun.
• 38:45
  Let's just wait just wonder. He's so small that it's hard.
• 38:51
  Like imagine him as a heel like most heels are big bully guys?
• 38:55
  Tossing people around. But like he's just so little
• 38:58
  that I can't see him but it is not like a little baby face from
• 39:00
  fighting from underneath but again, right.
• 39:05
  He wrestles in a smart way. Yeah, I don't know if you've
• 39:08
  noticed this when he wrestles bigger guys.
• 39:11
  He saw I such an intelligent rest.
• 39:13
  I'm so proud of this guy. Like I remember when he for this
• 39:18
  really big guy, do you actually? He thought one of the guys from
• 39:21
  from that Antony GoGo faction. You know, that really big guy
• 39:26
  with a brown hair. I can't remember his name.
• 39:28
  Um, Camerado Colorado. So he thought Camerado on an
• 39:33
  episode of dark. And I was like, I wonder how
• 39:35
  they're going to do this. I hope they don't do, you know,
• 39:37
  like, like I don't know, he put some in a DDT.
• 39:41
  T and the big guy sells it because that's just gonna be
• 39:43
  annoying. But no they did it in a way
• 39:46
  where basically Darby Alan used speed.
• 39:50
  And obviously if you attack something fast enough doesn't
• 39:54
  matter what it is it's going to fall over.
• 39:55
  It's gonna it's gonna feel some damage from it and that's
• 39:58
  exactly how he wrestled that Matt and that made that Matt
• 40:01
  good and enjoyable. They do the same things in WWE
• 40:05
  with Rey Mysterio matches if he's going to face real, pretty
• 40:08
  much anyone because everyone's bigger than them, Yeah, he
• 40:11
  wrestles it in the same way, he jumps at them, he trips them
• 40:15
  over or whatever like that. That's, that's exactly how it
• 40:18
  would be in a real fight. If you were fighting a guy
• 40:20
  bigger than you, you wouldn't try and outmaneuver him with
• 40:24
  strength, you would use your Speed and Agility and and that's
• 40:28
  what I like about that Darby Allen, guys.
• 40:29
  He wrestles those matches like that.
• 40:31
  And I think it was if he was a bad guy, that's how he would
• 40:35
  have to do, or where the thing is, when you're a bad guy, you
• 40:37
  can do other things, you can cheat, you can share.
• 40:40
  And, I mean, that's, Then you can go even further, you can hit
• 40:43
  the other guy with Knuckles while the referees not looking.
• 40:47
  There's so many option, right? Yeah, yeah, but I feel like Alan
• 40:52
  would be more sadistic. He would probably be less about
• 40:55
  cheating and more about doing things that were too far or
• 41:00
  something like he put me right purposely, get dq'd.
• 41:03
  So he could just beat the hell out of these opponent with
• 41:06
  something illegal or something. Yeah.
• 41:09
  Yeah. I'm I would be curious to see It
• 41:11
  I guess the one hesitation that I have is just because he has so
• 41:15
  much of his offense is about just that Dynamic speed.
• 41:19
  Like you mentioned just like this running full Sprint into
• 41:21
  his opponent like he would have to change so much about what he
• 41:24
  does in the ring and then you'd have sort of like this plotting
• 41:28
  150 pound guy very menacing, I don't know, I think he could
• 41:32
  pull it off if he was really dedicated to it.
• 41:34
  I just think it works so well as a baby face.
• 41:37
  Like why would you want to change that up?
• 41:40
  But I think he Could do it if he was so inclined.
• 41:42
  I think you have to do it with every wrestler there.
• 41:44
  Some point, you have to turn them.
• 41:46
  Good guy, bad guy, just the firstly to test the waters and
• 41:49
  also to freshen them up. I mean, look, Hulk Hogan was a
• 41:52
  good guy for so many years and it got boring and everyone
• 41:56
  turned on him because it was just like, okay, we go to say
• 42:01
  your prayers. You can find them in for okay,
• 42:03
  brother? Like, you know, you just got
• 42:04
  boring. So then when he became a bad
• 42:07
  guys, like this is interesting. You know.
• 42:11
  Yeah, he adds another shade and then and then then you can tell
• 42:14
  like loads of different stories aside.
• 42:16
  The guy that was the the poster boy for America.
• 42:20
  Now, he's now he's now he's saying all these naughty things
• 42:23
  to do like why can't tell their kids to stick it?
• 42:26
  Yeah yeah. Yeah I scared.
• 42:29
  Ya should be. I should be like for instance we
• 42:32
  got to talk about him, MJ F. Okay.
• 42:34
  Well Jacob Friedman pretty much at this point the only thing
• 42:38
  that's keeping wrestling going, really?
• 42:41
  He'll keeping this thing alive. As far as kayfabe is concerned,
• 42:44
  so for those who don't know, kayfabe means commitment to your
• 42:47
  character. So obviously the and this is a
• 42:52
  big problem with wrestling right now is that social media?
• 42:57
  So obviously everyone plays these characters online but then
• 43:02
  soon as I saw it on TV but once their online it's all like oh
• 43:05
  yeah Bray Wyatt gave to this charity today and it's like but
• 43:09
  he's a monster he's a monster like He's attacking people, but
• 43:12
  now he's giving to this Kids, Charity.
• 43:14
  No, no, no. I don't want to see that.
• 43:16
  Okay. Keep that secret if you're gonna
• 43:18
  commit to this idea that these people are really these
• 43:21
  characters, do the same on social media.
• 43:24
  Don't just because and the problem is, they'll do it a
• 43:26
  little bit iww. Doesn't solve the time.
• 43:28
  They'll open sweet messages from the characters and then the next
• 43:34
  tweet will just completely changes.
• 43:36
  So, like Roman Reigns as the bad guy right now.
• 43:38
  So he'd be like, yeah, I'm gonna totally kick that guy's ass.
• 43:41
  And then the next comment is like, oh, Roman Reigns did make
• 43:45
  a wish this weekend and this is a, yeah, sure.
• 43:47
  Exactly. How am I supposed to hate this
• 43:49
  person? Yeah, exactly.
• 43:50
  And it also doesn't fit, like, if he's supposed to be a bad
• 43:53
  guy, doesn't care. Like surely.
• 43:55
  He'd just be like, no. Screw the kids about myself,
• 43:59
  like, I'm all about money like and matter mjf bring the best
• 44:04
  friend. Jeff.
• 44:05
  He actually, Commits, to this kayfabe thing.
• 44:08
  He's like constantly only concerned with that.
• 44:12
  And everything he does is in keeping with that.
• 44:14
  So, like, even at autograph signings, he'll just refuse
• 44:19
  people or trash people out. Trash talk, people charge them,
• 44:23
  exorbitant amount of money for an autograph that sort of thing
• 44:26
  is that he does it for real though.
• 44:27
  Like that he doesn't write that they were not I'm torn on the
• 44:33
  subject because like I'm part of me is like you You where I
• 44:37
  really appreciate somebody throwing a hundred percent into
• 44:40
  that character and like making you believe.
• 44:42
  Like oh that's how that person actually is.
• 44:45
  But at the same time like is it fair of an audience to like
• 44:49
  expect because we don't expect that of, like, Brad Pitt.
• 44:52
  We don't expect that of Jim Carrey to be like, oh, you're
• 44:55
  supposed to be the mask when you're tweeting right now, you
• 44:57
  know what I mean? Like they're playing a part and
• 45:00
  is it fair of us to expect them to be 24/7, living that part?
• 45:05
  Because a lot of wrestlers in the He's especially did now
• 45:07
  granted they didn't have social media but you know Ric Flair was
• 45:11
  Ric Flair no matter where you met him and like he Ric Flair
• 45:15
  would probably tell you. I don't know that was
• 45:18
  necessarily the healthiest lifestyle for me to have, you
• 45:22
  know, through that time period. So it's an interest and I don't
• 45:25
  know, there's like a hundred percent, right?
• 45:26
  Answer and 100% wrong answer. But it is kind of just an
• 45:30
  interesting, like, what are we deserving of these performers?
• 45:34
  If they're not on our television set?
• 45:36
  You know what I mean? Tough one, isn't it?
• 45:38
  Because my answer would be or if you're a bad guy at like a bad
• 45:41
  guy, but then you can't always stick it.
• 45:45
  But I remember seeing something with mjf where, and this was,
• 45:49
  this was really cool. So there was a kid in a
• 45:51
  wheelchair, who had some sort of, I don't know, some from some
• 45:55
  sort of really terminal illness. But he wanted mjf to cuss him
• 46:00
  out and yeah, it was really odd. He was like, because he, you
• 46:06
  know, He really gonna cuss out a guy in a wheelchair, like, you
• 46:09
  know, he's dying from something, but he really was massive fan of
• 46:12
  mjf and he wanted him to do it. And mjf without blinking just
• 46:17
  touring one, and just went really dark with it and was
• 46:21
  awful to this guy. And then just told him to wear
• 46:24
  forth, and the kid was like really happy quite clearly,
• 46:28
  right? And you can tell, because
• 46:30
  obviously, the real guy mjf is is a good guy.
• 46:34
  There's been interviews to prove that at, but I think the whole
• 46:38
  point of his commitment to his character is that he is doing it
• 46:40
  for the fans, because he wants resting to be as good as
• 46:43
  possible. And I think it is as good as
• 46:46
  possible. When there is that commitment to
• 46:47
  those characters I get I get your point.
• 46:52
  I think it's is a tricky one because it's like exhausting.
• 46:56
  Yeah, I suppose the difference between resting and acting is
• 46:59
  that if you're signing on to be a wrestler, your kind of
• 47:01
  committing to that character long-term And I feel like if you
• 47:07
  really want to get the most out of it and be successful, you do
• 47:10
  kind of have to commit to that character.
• 47:12
  You do kind of have to play them 24/7, you know, me and like
• 47:17
  obviously there's going to be times when that doesn't apply
• 47:20
  but you know yeah I do think there needs to be a certain
• 47:25
  degree of commitment to k-fed even though it's a dead concept
• 47:29
  at this point I think well I ate it, your point what it is and
• 47:36
  I've actually been thinking about this a lot over the past
• 47:38
  like couple weeks, what it is more than anything else that I
• 47:41
  appreciate when when guys are really kind of going out of the
• 47:44
  way to do these things, it's respect for the audience.
• 47:47
  Like if you're watching a really good movie and you would never
• 47:51
  expect someone to like wink at the camera and say like hey this
• 47:54
  isn't real to like take you out of it so so bye.
• 47:58
  Making things real and treating everything.
• 48:01
  Seriously, you are showing respect for that audience, the
• 48:03
  people who are either watching on TV or paid for a ticket to
• 48:06
  that show, you're letting them get invested in what you're
• 48:10
  doing and you're not taking them out of that unnecessarily.
• 48:13
  And I think that for me is just that respect for the audience,
• 48:16
  respect for the crowd by taking what you're doing.
• 48:19
  Seriously, even if you are a joke wrestler, there's ways of
• 48:22
  doing that in a way, that's not like overtly winking at the
• 48:26
  crowd. And so it's a matter of kind of
• 48:28
  finding In that fine line. So so yeah, I totally, I totally
• 48:31
  agree, you know, on the importance of kind of that.
• 48:35
  And if you do choose to kind of go above and beyond on social
• 48:38
  media, and like in your personal life, when you're just out on
• 48:41
  the street, then like more power to you, I think that that only
• 48:44
  you know, enhances your character in the long run if you
• 48:47
  can pull it off for that length of time, I've spoken a lot
• 48:51
  today. So I'm gonna really just hand it
• 48:53
  over to you a lot more with these these questions moving
• 48:56
  forward. I did actually funnily enough.
• 48:57
  I'm going to Some criticism I had on about podcast recently so
• 49:02
  there was someone who basically said in my last podcast in the
• 49:06
  comments that they thought that I spoke to Matt.
• 49:10
  This was a two and a half but our podcast with someone.
• 49:13
  Wow. And they thought that I spoke
• 49:14
  too much and the exact quote was.
• 49:18
  They didn't want to hear my boring stories.
• 49:20
  So basically, obviously these podcasts are conversational.
• 49:23
  They are an interview but their conversational.
• 49:26
  And obviously, when you're passionate about things, Things
• 49:28
  like I want to share what I want to say with you.
• 49:30
  And I'm in two minds about this because it is the Christian re
• 49:35
  podcast, I can do what I want on it.
• 49:37
  But at the same time it is about my guest and I took exception
• 49:41
  with this particular criticism because it wasn't just a lie.
• 49:45
  It was just like I wasn't, you know, one thing I take very
• 49:47
  seriously is is making sure that my guest gets as much out of it
• 49:51
  as possible and and gets an opportunity to speak and put
• 49:54
  themselves over and everything. Now I realize in this episode
• 49:57
  I've spoken a lot which is why We're going to really get to the
• 49:59
  grips with your thoughts on wrestling, with all these next
• 50:02
  questions. But I'm not going to apologize
• 50:06
  for being passionate and, and wanting to share certain stories
• 50:09
  and talk to people and, and, and have fun and enjoy this.
• 50:13
  Because, do you know what it is my podcast?
• 50:16
  And it's about me interviewing that person and getting a good
• 50:20
  conversation out of it. And if you don't like me, if you
• 50:23
  don't like listening to me or hearing me, share stories don't
• 50:26
  listen to the podcast. Simple as that.
• 50:29
  This is my message to that person to that hater.
• 50:31
  It's and to all haters who don't like to listen to it.
• 50:34
  You know? I mean like if you if you really
• 50:37
  hate me that much just don't listen to it but don't give me
• 50:39
  crap for talking on my own podcast because that's just not
• 50:43
  cool. And you know, I thought about
• 50:46
  responding to this person via comments but I thought I would
• 50:49
  do it in video form because I'm pretty sick and tired of it.
• 50:52
  Like getting this response is fine to have constructive
• 50:55
  criticism that's totally cool but whenever I seem to get This
• 50:58
  isn't about talking too much on the podcast.
• 51:01
  It always comes in a really like douchey way and I think it's
• 51:05
  unnecessary and yeah I'm not gonna lie, it got to me it kind
• 51:10
  of bothered me a little bit but a bit mainly because I take this
• 51:16
  very seriously what I do with this podcast and I don't think
• 51:20
  I've ever not given people my podcast and opportunity to speak
• 51:23
  and and you know but whatever that's that's me.
• 51:28
  You saying my five cents on them?
• 51:32
  Well, there you go. That's so whoever posted that
• 51:35
  listen to that and stick it brother.
• 51:39
  Did you know that a lot of people were saying as well?
• 51:40
  Like, why did the world? Why were they listening?
• 51:43
  They listened to the whole thing.
• 51:47
  I guess, I guess, because I guess I mean, yeah.
• 51:55
  Let's just, let's talk about your thoughts on wrestling.
• 51:59
  What are your favorite things about wrestling?
• 52:05
  One thing actually, as we were talking about New Japan earlier,
• 52:08
  so I've been to two New Japan shows.
• 52:11
  What I actually went to the Tokyo dome for which was
• 52:15
  incredible. The other was the very first
• 52:18
  time that New Japan ever came to the Seattle region.
• 52:23
  I went to one of their shows and was a very small sort of venue.
• 52:26
  So you really got a chance to kind of just see all the
• 52:28
  different moving pieces and all that good stuff.
• 52:30
  I remember I don't. Wow, I think I know why this
• 52:33
  this stuff. My mind so much and I think it
• 52:35
  kind of ties back to what we were discussing earlier around
• 52:38
  sort of like respect for the audience, you know, trying to
• 52:41
  make sure it's a realistic portrayal of what this would
• 52:44
  actually be if everything was happening.
• 52:46
  Legitimately, that sort of thing, but I remember so, the
• 52:48
  ring announcer for New Japan, you know, the guy kind of doing
• 52:52
  the ring introductions and all that stuff during the matches.
• 52:55
  He would be like actively watching the match happen and
• 53:00
  every single time there was a pinfall every single time there
• 53:03
  was a submission Mission attempt.
• 53:05
  He would grab the little hammer and he would raise it above his
• 53:08
  head and he would wait until the referee gave him like the two
• 53:12
  side or like, you know, know, and then he would wait for that
• 53:16
  and that he would put the hammer back down and I just remember,
• 53:19
  loving the commitment on all parties.
• 53:22
  Like, if you are in front of that audience, it is your job
• 53:25
  to, like, play up that this is a real sporting event.
• 53:29
  And like that just stuck out to me so much, because I remember
• 53:32
  going to like, Indie shows You know, before the pandemic where
• 53:37
  the dude ring the bell forgot to even ring the bell at the start
• 53:39
  of the match and the entire audience is like ring the bell
• 53:42
  and for any Outsiders like that just seems so stupid.
• 53:45
  Like why does it matter if they ring the bell?
• 53:47
  But it's like, you're portraying what is supposed to be happening
• 53:51
  in a real sport and so if you're not doing that then like breaks
• 53:54
  the illusion of the whole thing. And then what are we even doing
• 53:57
  here? Just watching people do moves to
• 53:59
  each other. Like there has to be some level
• 54:01
  of sport to this whole thing. So I think that's I don't Even
• 54:04
  answered your question, but that's the thing that stuck out
• 54:06
  in my mind as far as things that I've seen recently.
• 54:11
  Let's flip it up. What do you dislike about
• 54:14
  wrestling? Oh gosh.
• 54:18
  Um I think a lot of this, I still love wrestling.
• 54:24
  I probably don't love it as much as I used to.
• 54:29
  I think the thing that I wish there were just more storylines
• 54:35
  that like you could really believe in and really have some
• 54:39
  sort of emotional stake in. I think that's probably the
• 54:42
  thing that is lacking most right now and like when I think of the
• 54:46
  story, It really meant a lot to me and it's as you get older, it
• 54:49
  is harder to immerse yourself. Like I totally understand that
• 54:53
  as as like a little kid you know, you're going to have a lot
• 54:56
  easier time giving that emotional investment then you
• 54:59
  would as you know somebody in your 30s or anything like that.
• 55:02
  But like I go back to like Macho Man versus Jake The Snake like
• 55:06
  the snake was gnawing on Macho Man's arm stuff like that and
• 55:09
  like you can't do animal attacks on people or anything like that.
• 55:13
  So I'm certainly not advising that aew bring a badger.
• 55:16
  To their show or anything like that, but I just I just think
• 55:19
  that is one thing that's lacking so many of the stories now are
• 55:22
  just like, I don't like you because you beat me up one time.
• 55:25
  Now, I want to beat you up, that sort of thing.
• 55:27
  I just there has to be some sort of way of kind of, whether it
• 55:31
  be, you know, love triangle story lines or, you know, maybe,
• 55:38
  I don't know, like, 72 trying to come up with story lines.
• 55:40
  Off the top of your head is difficult.
• 55:41
  That's why I'm not coming up with anything off the top of my
• 55:43
  head right now but I do. I do think that, that is It's
• 55:47
  lacking and, you know, W B4 as much as like they do.
• 55:50
  Try. But I just I can't get invested
• 55:55
  in a lot of the like the only thing I can think of off the top
• 55:58
  of my head that I've enjoyed of the clips that I've seen, has
• 56:01
  been like the Matt riddle, Randy Orton thing like that seems like
• 56:04
  a interesting, sort of shift of what you normally would
• 56:08
  understand that Randy Orton character to be.
• 56:11
  And that's something that you can kind of see, like, I wonder
• 56:13
  where this is going to go is Randy Orton, eventually going to
• 56:15
  be a dick and betray mattress. It'll or are they going to
• 56:17
  actually like have this friendship going on for a while?
• 56:19
  So like that's one of those things like the I guess to make
• 56:23
  a very long-winded answer, short, the best storylines are
• 56:28
  ones where you don't know how it could go.
• 56:31
  You could realistically, see it going down, One path, or maybe
• 56:34
  you could go down this other path and each of those could
• 56:36
  make for compelling way, for that to move towards the grimaud
• 56:42
  with you. But I think a lot of resting
• 56:46
  nowadays Just a mess. I like I really do feel like
• 56:51
  every now and again, you get a gym.
• 56:54
  You get something that that's good.
• 56:57
  But you have to sift through a sea of crap to get to it.
• 57:02
  Yeah. Like so for even aw, like, okay,
• 57:05
  this is what I do. So like I I watch aw I don't
• 57:10
  watch everything cause there's too much, but I watched like
• 57:12
  every dynamite and the pay per views and same Yeah, like I for
• 57:17
  a while, I was watching SmackDown and Raw, then I
• 57:20
  stopped watching bra because it was trash.
• 57:22
  I kept watching Smackdown and then, I just stopped watching
• 57:26
  all together because last night that still has its moments.
• 57:30
  It seems like there's stuff in the main event is always pretty
• 57:32
  good but that the actual, if you just look at wrestling is just
• 57:35
  like an experience like two hours of your life watching a
• 57:38
  show. I don't feel like we WEA
• 57:41
  anymore. Puts on a good just good show.
• 57:46
  You know, like they do put like on.
• 57:49
  Yeah, like, you know, I mean like that they put on good
• 57:51
  pay-per-views. I feel like it's always worth
• 57:55
  checking into WrestleMania season, Royal Rumble up to
• 57:58
  WrestleMania. But anything outside of that is
• 58:01
  like, I don't know, like that, sometimes they get it, right?
• 58:05
  I remember during the pandemic, the Money in the Bank
• 58:07
  pay-per-view was excellent. You know, they did WrestleMania
• 58:12
  weather, then it's WrestleMania. I mean sure, right.
• 58:17
  Yeah like okay, if you look at what's going on right now, I
• 58:20
  just saw that they added John Cena and Roman Reigns at
• 58:24
  SummerSlam. Now that is a match that a has
• 58:27
  backstory to it. B is interesting, you can do a
• 58:30
  lot of stuff with it. That makes me.
• 58:33
  Want to watch SummerSlam. I'm going to watch SummerSlam
• 58:35
  now but if that match wasn't on there, There's just doesn't
• 58:40
  really seem to be many reasons to care, and it's is sad because
• 58:46
  it's like this is the same company that brought you, the
• 58:50
  rock versus Hogan Stone Cold, Steve Austin, Kane the
• 58:55
  Undertaker. You know what I mean?
• 59:00
  It's just, I don't know, man. I agree.
• 59:02
  I thought I mean, there was a point where I just like you, I
• 59:05
  watched every week of raw for a lot.
• 59:07
  So I would say, in my early 20s, I watched All Rossignol
• 59:11
  smackdowns then right around. This is dating me a little bit.
• 59:15
  Then in the JBL era. I was like, I don't need to
• 59:19
  watch Smackdown anymore, I'm there.
• 59:21
  And I know a lot of surprisingly a lot of like online fans really
• 59:25
  like JBL like what a great heel. I just could not stand the guy
• 59:28
  and I didn't like watching his matches so I just I stopped
• 59:30
  watching Smackdown at that point in time then right around the
• 59:33
  beginning of the three, our era of raw.
• 59:35
  I was just like this is too like for a while.
• 59:37
  I would skip the first hour. Just DVR it and then just
• 59:41
  fast-forward through the commercials and anything.
• 59:43
  I didn't want to see and then eventually just became like this
• 59:45
  is too much. I can't keep up with this, show
• 59:48
  on a weekly basis. And for a while there, I would
• 59:51
  just watch like the pay-per-views on the network.
• 59:53
  Now it's like a lot of times, I don't even bother with that,
• 59:56
  I'll just watch the clips that are posted online if it's a
• 59:59
  pay-per-view that I want to see. I'll go out of my way to do so
• 1:00:03
  but if it's not like WrestleMania Royal Rumble
• 1:00:07
  SummerSlam, maybe Survivor series It's kind of a crapshoot
• 1:00:11
  on whether or not, I actually will take the time to view it
• 1:00:13
  because like you said, there's just not a whole lot of
• 1:00:15
  captivating things that make you want to see it.
• 1:00:19
  I can repin totally recognize that like Roman Reigns.
• 1:00:22
  He's doing a great job in his current role but like do I
• 1:00:24
  really need to see him beat all of like the the baby faces that
• 1:00:29
  they have on on Smackdown to build up to like something that
• 1:00:33
  actually matters like a John Cena or Brock Lesnar?
• 1:00:36
  Like I don't know that I want to be there for steps one through.
• 1:00:39
  Even to get to the culmination at step a, you know, something
• 1:00:42
  like that. Yeah, it's so frustrating to me
• 1:00:48
  because It should be a good thing to have all this
• 1:00:53
  wrestling. All this so much wrestling now,
• 1:00:56
  but I actually feel it's just too much.
• 1:01:01
  It's oversaturated, you know, raw being 3 hours.
• 1:01:04
  That's ridiculous. I mean, the only reason it's
• 1:01:06
  still three hours is just because that's the DT TV deal.
• 1:01:10
  They signed they keep getting it renewed, why wouldn't you take
• 1:01:14
  the extra hour? You know what I mean?
• 1:01:15
  Like, why wouldn't you? But it's too.
• 1:01:17
  It's too long to ours. Is is a perfectly acceptable
• 1:01:20
  amount of time for a wrestling show on a on a weekly basis.
• 1:01:24
  Absolutely. And then yeah when it comes to
• 1:01:29
  like if you take aw like I know I've kind of I think I'm always
• 1:01:34
  fair with everything, you know what I mean?
• 1:01:35
  Like people right now, there's this like War.
• 1:01:37
  Like you have to like aw or WWE. And if you are overly supportive
• 1:01:42
  of one, you get Trashed by the other audience which are this.
• 1:01:45
  I just think stupid like he just like what sure, but I see a lot
• 1:01:50
  of problems with a W as well. Like for instance I think their
• 1:01:53
  whole a aw dark and elevation. I think it's lazy those shows a
• 1:02:00
  way too long, their internet shows, which I get is a nice
• 1:02:05
  kind of extra to have, but essentially what they are is
• 1:02:10
  just extra stuff that they can't fit onto the TV show that
• 1:02:16
  they've just kind of compiled into one.
• 1:02:19
  Egg thing. And, you know, that's really
• 1:02:20
  evident with a w dot because it started as this extra shown, it
• 1:02:24
  used to range between 45 minutes to an hour, which is perfect.
• 1:02:28
  That's what the NWA power our used to be.
• 1:02:30
  Or I think still is. Yeah.
• 1:02:32
  And that's that's great. But sometimes you get like two
• 1:02:36
  and a half hour long darks and they'll be like oh this gigantic
• 1:02:40
  episode of dark and it's like, no, this is just a bunch of
• 1:02:43
  matches that you're probably not going to be interested in
• 1:02:46
  watching and maybe one or two that Decent.
• 1:02:51
  And it's like what you and I know it's harsh but it's true.
• 1:02:55
  Like there's a lot of just throw away matches and I got a little
• 1:03:00
  bit excited when they started incorporating storyline stuff.
• 1:03:03
  I was like oh this is interesting but then I realized
• 1:03:06
  they were never going to make this into a legitimate show.
• 1:03:09
  It's just an extra thing. Probably the best thing about aw
• 1:03:12
  dark is just like the commentary because it's just funny.
• 1:03:15
  I Excalibur. Do I I do like the little clips
• 1:03:20
  that I hear about. So I think my opinion on dark
• 1:03:23
  having never watched any of this, oh, for the record.
• 1:03:26
  I'm just putting that out here. I have a totally uninformed
• 1:03:29
  opinion, but I maintain that. It is my opinion.
• 1:03:32
  I like the idea of dark eye be cut because I've never watched
• 1:03:36
  it and I never like, I'm going to watch dark this week, or
• 1:03:38
  anything like that, you know? Maybe if I was commuting right
• 1:03:40
  now, I'd feel differently about it.
• 1:03:41
  But growing up, when I did in the 90s, when you had all these
• 1:03:45
  squash matches, I like squash matches.
• 1:03:49
  I There is a need to portray certain people as stars.
• 1:03:52
  And if there is a issue that I do have with a ew, its that too,
• 1:03:57
  many of the matches are very competitive and you're not
• 1:04:01
  really being presented with like this, guys, up here, and this
• 1:04:04
  guy's down here, it's almost like everybody wants to make
• 1:04:07
  each other look good, which then doesn't make anybody look good.
• 1:04:11
  But that's neither here, nor there, but the thing about dark,
• 1:04:14
  I like it because they're not touring and and who knows even
• 1:04:18
  with the pandemic sort of ending, I don't know.
• 1:04:20
  They're going to be doing that. Many how shows.
• 1:04:22
  Anyway, it gives their roster, the opportunity to, like, work
• 1:04:25
  for the ones that aren't really working and he's that sort of
• 1:04:27
  thing. I think it gives them the chance
• 1:04:29
  to not, you know, suffer injuries because they're like
• 1:04:33
  working, like once a month or something like that.
• 1:04:35
  And, you know, I appreciate it. And this is another issue that I
• 1:04:40
  have with a. Ew.
• 1:04:41
  I don't mind dark as long as those.
• 1:04:44
  Lines are not required viewing for Dynamite.
• 1:04:47
  Like you're going to say, oh, because you didn't watch dark
• 1:04:50
  now, you don't know this thing that's now happening on TV,
• 1:04:54
  that's where I kind of have a problem.
• 1:04:55
  And I know with the SCU break up so much of that was all
• 1:05:01
  exclusively on dark. So as a exclusively Dynamite
• 1:05:04
  viewer, I'm just like, wait, what?
• 1:05:06
  It's like I'm supposed to know that they've been undefeated for
• 1:05:09
  the past seven months. I've barely seen them on TV.
• 1:05:12
  Yeah, I completely agree with you.
• 1:05:14
  Oh, I think this is something that they are beginning to deal
• 1:05:18
  with because I do remember that there was something on being the
• 1:05:23
  elite which is like a YouTube show that the Young Bucks.
• 1:05:25
  Do there was like a storyline that they were carrying on there
• 1:05:29
  which then culminated as a small payoff on Dynamite but you'd
• 1:05:34
  have to have been watching being the elite to know what the hell
• 1:05:37
  they were doing. And I got annoyed by that
• 1:05:41
  because I was just like look If you actually put it all
• 1:05:45
  together, all the things you're supposed to watch with.
• 1:05:48
  Aw it's way too much. You've got two hours of
• 1:05:51
  dynamite, right. And then you've got OK, let's
• 1:05:55
  say aw dark tends to average about two hours.
• 1:05:59
  So two hours of aw duck and then the same with elevation that's
• 1:06:03
  two hours or six hours of just televised stuff.
• 1:06:06
  And then you've got the YouTube series Rampage, Yeah, that's the
• 1:06:11
  new show that's coming. Yes, that would be two hours,
• 1:06:13
  right? So what's that eight?
• 1:06:14
  Yeah, that's nine. Eight hours.
• 1:06:16
  And then you've got be nearly, which is about an hour and then
• 1:06:18
  Sammy's blogs. So that's 10 hours of stuff to
• 1:06:21
  keep up with Isis. Just hit saying, it's too, it's
• 1:06:26
  too much. It's too much.
• 1:06:27
  And I agree with all your points about you.
• 1:06:30
  Need squash matches, you need? And that originally that's what
• 1:06:33
  aw dog was if you like, okay, Brian Cage needs wins.
• 1:06:36
  So let's just throw him against the all these people that don't
• 1:06:39
  matter, right? But and that's that's fine.
• 1:06:41
  I totally agree with that. But the, yeah, that for a long
• 1:06:45
  time there was this problem where you'd have to watch aw
• 1:06:48
  dark to know what's going on and on Dynamite and that's stupid.
• 1:06:51
  I not everyone has time for it and also the bigger issue which
• 1:06:54
  is what I was talking about before is that dark in elevation
• 1:06:58
  are not presented as shows. They are initially when they
• 1:07:03
  come on but then once you kind of get into like 30 minutes in
• 1:07:06
  it just stops being a show. It just be, it's just of like,
• 1:07:12
  Filler content really is probably the best way I can put
• 1:07:15
  it with occasional high points and to me, I just don't see the
• 1:07:19
  point of watching the show like that.
• 1:07:20
  Like a dynamite is a show worth watching Smackdown.
• 1:07:24
  Sometimes is a show worth watching but like dark and Roar
• 1:07:29
  even I just like three hours or two hours of just stuff.
• 1:07:35
  Like I said, it's like if you're going to put on wrestling shows
• 1:07:40
  look aw dog. Doesn't have to be like, I mean,
• 1:07:45
  we both know that TV RIT Wrestling TV matches on always
• 1:07:51
  going to be spectacular because that's generally what you save
• 1:07:54
  for the pay-per-view. But typically the main event
• 1:07:59
  still has to be a big one and you have to have a couple of
• 1:08:01
  matches on each TV show that are worth watching you.
• 1:08:05
  Is fine to have some filler. That's okay.
• 1:08:07
  And you need it to build storylines like you said, but at
• 1:08:11
  the same time you still need those like Marky matches and I
• 1:08:14
  think the aw is beginning to start doing that.
• 1:08:18
  I can't I can't obviously speak for spent that I'm rocks.
• 1:08:21
  I haven't been keeping up with them but every time I think
• 1:08:23
  about watching them die just hear of reasons not to.
• 1:08:28
  I am going to start watching again when the fans return
• 1:08:32
  though, because I felt like this whole A dome thing.
• 1:08:35
  Just killed it for me a bit. Yeah, no fans hurts.
• 1:08:39
  Do you think what is your prediction in terms of like once
• 1:08:42
  everybody goes in front of fans again?
• 1:08:44
  Which, you know, aw just did this past week, W, starting up
• 1:08:48
  really soon. Do you have any sort of
• 1:08:51
  expectations of like, show quality or kind of what the
• 1:08:54
  trajectory of both of those companies is going to be once
• 1:08:58
  fans reappear. I think WWE will get better
• 1:09:03
  because The thing is WWE has always been pretty reactive to
• 1:09:08
  fans but not always they don't really give them always what
• 1:09:12
  they want. But if there's like, sure too
• 1:09:15
  much booing and too much thrashing, they will react, they
• 1:09:19
  will because obviously if there's too much booing, it just
• 1:09:21
  ruins the show and they try to do their little things that they
• 1:09:24
  try and pipe in. Cheers, is that but eventually
• 1:09:26
  they had a little sweetening. Yeah.
• 1:09:28
  Eventually they have to act on it so I think WWE will get
• 1:09:31
  better. Aw.
• 1:09:35
  Jury's, still out on that one because every time every week I
• 1:09:38
  watch, right? There's even a really good show
• 1:09:42
  or a really bad show. Let the last one I just watched.
• 1:09:47
  it was okay and then it got to the main event and it was Young
• 1:09:50
  Bucks versus, I don't know whoever Pathak it was pain,
• 1:09:54
  Terrell, several me out door and Eddie Kingston Eddie Kingston,
• 1:10:01
  and that should be a good match. Eddie Kingston is a fantastic
• 1:10:05
  wrestler. Both on the mic.
• 1:10:07
  He makes you care. I remember, they did something
• 1:10:09
  really good actually. In the last year, there was a
• 1:10:11
  thing where he'd lost against Jon Moxley when Jon Moxley was
• 1:10:17
  the, the aw champion. And immediately they were, he
• 1:10:24
  was basically challenging for the title again, and it's, I'll
• 1:10:27
  hang on, you lost. But because Eddie's King promo
• 1:10:31
  was so good. It made you care about seeing
• 1:10:35
  its natural. I do hang on.
• 1:10:36
  Yeah there's there's a reason to care about this.
• 1:10:38
  This kind of goes back to what we were talking about before and
• 1:10:40
  like suddenly everyone was really interested in this match
• 1:10:43
  even though he's already lost anyway bit, maybe maybe he's
• 1:10:46
  gonna win, or don't know. I don't know and he didn't win
• 1:10:49
  but it was it just made you care for an extra week and like right
• 1:10:53
  I think that's I think that's the magic arresting sometimes
• 1:10:55
  when they get it right, they get it really right.
• 1:10:57
  Even with We every now and again, they'll pull something
• 1:11:00
  out and I go oh oh. Oh that's good.
• 1:11:02
  That's really good. Like oh yeah, absolutely know
• 1:11:05
  when w is firing on all cylinders, what they do really
• 1:11:08
  can't be just because of the amount of production value.
• 1:11:10
  They have just the the pedigree of they have so many decades and
• 1:11:15
  Decades of History leading everything.
• 1:11:17
  I absolutely agree when they do something right, which can be a
• 1:11:21
  slog to get to that point, but when they do do it right, it's
• 1:11:24
  well worth the payoff. In many cases.
• 1:11:26
  It's like when I don't know if you saw Presumably, so
• 1:11:29
  WrestleMania last year or this year?
• 1:11:31
  Sorry. Yeah.
• 1:11:34
  So I was really impressed with the match between Lashley and
• 1:11:37
  Drew McIntyre because okay, some some backstory on this.
• 1:11:41
  So Drew McIntyre was the WWE champion for out the pandemic.
• 1:11:45
  And that was really cool. It's kind of a shame.
• 1:11:47
  He never got to kind of celebrate in from fans, but you
• 1:11:49
  know, it is what it is. And technically I think he's a
• 1:11:53
  two-time champion Hazard, but he's been established as a main
• 1:11:55
  vent guy, so he doesn't need the title anymore.
• 1:11:57
  Like the title is always been like a prop to help guys get
• 1:12:00
  like big and you don't always need It but Ashley but Bobby
• 1:12:05
  Lashley becoming WWE Champion is obviously big for numerous
• 1:12:08
  reasons. One, he's been away from the
• 1:12:10
  company for so long and we've been clamoring for it.
• 1:12:13
  They they they messed him around like a good free for months just
• 1:12:17
  putting him in silly story lines and met Patton pairing in with
• 1:12:20
  silly acts. It just didn't make any sense
• 1:12:22
  and then they finally started giving us the Bobby Lashley that
• 1:12:25
  we've been waiting for the big guy.
• 1:12:27
  You know, the, the main event guy and we were thinking, okay?
• 1:12:32
  When's this broad match happening.
• 1:12:34
  When's this broke match happen. We want Brock Lesnar vs Lashley
• 1:12:37
  and we're still waiting for that.
• 1:12:38
  I think we might get that WrestleMania like next year.
• 1:12:40
  I think that's maybe what they're driving at.
• 1:12:43
  But anyway, they decided that Bobby Lashley should beat Drew
• 1:12:49
  McIntyre for the championship. I was all for that for, that's
• 1:12:51
  fantastic again. Bigger another reason is, hey,
• 1:12:57
  it's a black WWE champion. That's a good thing.
• 1:13:01
  We haven't seen too many of those.
• 1:13:03
  It's it represents a good precedent, a good step in the
• 1:13:05
  right direction, they did the same with Bianca Bel-Air great
• 1:13:09
  stuff right now, here's the thing, when it got to
• 1:13:13
  WrestleMania, I believe at that point obviously do Drew McIntyre
• 1:13:17
  was challenging, Bobby Lashley for the championship and there
• 1:13:19
  was a lot of people saying, this is a difficult match, because if
• 1:13:23
  you keep it on Lashley, slightest kiss, it kind of feels
• 1:13:28
  like you're doing it too. Panda, right?
• 1:13:30
  But if you take it off him, I dunno like, but lashley's barely
• 1:13:34
  been the champion for a long time.
• 1:13:36
  He's only been a champion for a couple of my, I don't see how
• 1:13:39
  anyone comes out of this winning, in any shape or form.
• 1:13:44
  And it made me think like, yeah, they've kind of put themselves
• 1:13:47
  into a corner here. What do they do?
• 1:13:50
  But I got to say after watching that match, I was I was really
• 1:13:55
  happy. I was really impressed with what
• 1:13:56
  they did. They made it seem like, like
• 1:13:58
  Lush Drew McIntyre was going to win for a long time.
• 1:14:02
  They made it in a an entertaining match, lots of like
• 1:14:06
  near-falls and stuff believable, but Lashley still came out
• 1:14:09
  dominant and it wasn't like He kind of gave away too much
• 1:14:15
  offense, you know, he wasn't you know I mean he can still felt
• 1:14:18
  like okay he dominate that match still, he still one conclusively
• 1:14:24
  and I thought they did it really well and I feel like that's a
• 1:14:29
  good example of how when WWE gets it right?
• 1:14:31
  They get it right. Even when they backed themselves
• 1:14:33
  into a corner with something that they do it.
• 1:14:36
  Well I don't know why they still are doing this this few to this
• 1:14:39
  day though. That is beyond me.
• 1:14:43
  Yeah. Yeah, I don't know.
• 1:14:44
  I try not to die. Zak W, storylines too much just
• 1:14:49
  because things change so much on a whim seemingly all the time.
• 1:14:53
  For me, it is a little curious because like, I have nothing
• 1:14:56
  against Bobby Lashley, but it is weird to me.
• 1:14:58
  So you have three weekly shows that range from 2 hours to 3
• 1:15:03
  hours, a week, the champion of each of those shows like this,
• 1:15:06
  dominant bad guy Champion. Are you really expecting people
• 1:15:11
  to spend seven hours of their lives?
• 1:15:13
  It's like with these shows that are being presented to you like
• 1:15:16
  oh this bad guy, he's beating up all your favorites at all your
• 1:15:19
  Heroes. Like you can't have one baby
• 1:15:21
  face in the middle there. That's like people can root for
• 1:15:24
  like this. It's a real slog to try and be
• 1:15:27
  like okay I get it, we got Roman, we got Bobby, we got
• 1:15:32
  carry and cross like can you, can we get something?
• 1:15:35
  Can we get a little bit of a bone, you know, thrown to the to
• 1:15:38
  the guys that were supposed to be cheering for?
• 1:15:40
  I don't know. I guess you go build people up
• 1:15:42
  though because Drew McIntyre. So I was a baby face Champion
• 1:15:45
  for a year. Obviously wasn't in front of
• 1:15:47
  fans. Yeah, you know what I mean?
• 1:15:48
  And I suppose with these things at once and they're both aw and
• 1:15:52
  WWE has been getting, right is keeping the championship on the
• 1:15:57
  main Champion for a long time because they used a flip-flop
• 1:16:00
  all the time, but then it was just it made the championship
• 1:16:02
  mean nothing. Now they have a guy, have the
• 1:16:05
  championship for a year or two years or three years and I think
• 1:16:09
  they've done that. Well, and I would argue there's
• 1:16:13
  Not that many contenders. I mean they are trying to build
• 1:16:17
  up people but then they're also doing a disservice to a lot of
• 1:16:20
  people. Like I thought, Damian priest
• 1:16:22
  was going to stop being pushed off the WrestleMania was like he
• 1:16:26
  came across really well is entertaining.
• 1:16:28
  He looks great. He moves great.
• 1:16:30
  Like he's gonna be a future WWE Champion for sure.
• 1:16:34
  Wow, at least. I think that way.
• 1:16:37
  I mean, you never know it's hard to put make that prediction with
• 1:16:40
  wi. Yeah.
• 1:16:42
  Because like look at Andrade I leave the like that.
• 1:16:45
  That that blows my mind. I can't believe they let that
• 1:16:48
  guy go like that guy. Looks like a million bucks and
• 1:16:52
  he works like a million bucks and they just let him go.
• 1:16:54
  And it's like is it the promo thing is it cuz he can't do a
• 1:16:59
  good promo and I because his English isn't his first language
• 1:17:02
  and it's a but there's been so many champions that that wasn't
• 1:17:05
  the case. I mean does it really matter
• 1:17:07
  that much? I mean if you if you put a
• 1:17:10
  mouthpiece with somebody no yeah I don't know.
• 1:17:13
  His work of the Ring was Stellar.
• 1:17:14
  He looks great. I mean, he just like he said, he
• 1:17:17
  didn't have the promo in English.
• 1:17:19
  I'm sure his Promos in Spanish or just fine.
• 1:17:22
  But yeah, I thought the same thing about Alistair black when
• 1:17:26
  I first saw him in NXT as like this dude's going to be the next
• 1:17:29
  Undertaker. This guy is going to be in the
• 1:17:31
  main event of WrestleMania within the next five years.
• 1:17:34
  Like he has everything that you need.
• 1:17:36
  He has a unique wrestling style that like could potentially
• 1:17:40
  appeal to non-fans to animate. And like his strikes look
• 1:17:44
  vicious. I just I thought he was the
• 1:17:46
  total package really good promo and when they let him go I'm
• 1:17:50
  just like what what is happening like what you don't know what to
• 1:17:54
  do with your own Talent anymore? This company has become so
• 1:17:57
  bloated that you're just letting go of guys that you could have
• 1:18:01
  made into something huge. So yeah I felt the same way
• 1:18:06
  about him mere. Oh yeah few other guys course
• 1:18:09
  there is this tray. This thought process which I
• 1:18:14
  kind of tend to agree with it's quite controversial, but I feel
• 1:18:17
  like it's true. Aw, doesn't seem like it's
• 1:18:21
  actually really competition to WWE it.
• 1:18:24
  When it first came out it seemed like a genuine threat to WWE but
• 1:18:29
  now it just seems like www.kerryshook.org you then the
• 1:18:34
  not worried about it. And to be honest, with a lot of
• 1:18:36
  the stuff that the aw has done I feel like they shot themselves
• 1:18:41
  in the foot and that they don't really come across as being like
• 1:18:44
  a serious threat to WWE. And for that reason, I feel
• 1:18:49
  like, that's why they let all those people go.
• 1:18:51
  Like, I think, what, they don't think they actually expect aw,
• 1:18:54
  to continue to be in business for the next couple of years.
• 1:18:56
  I reckon they're letting these people out on purpose, letting
• 1:19:01
  them get TV time when I, aw, you know, yeah, go get your money go
• 1:19:04
  get, you know, get good. Go get it.
• 1:19:05
  It's exactly like the 90s in the sense that I think Vince, It
• 1:19:09
  would let people go let them, you know, go make some money
• 1:19:12
  elsewhere, increase their value. And then when he re signs them,
• 1:19:17
  they're worth more to him. And he didn't have to pay them
• 1:19:20
  to get better, they got better themselves and then came back.
• 1:19:23
  It's the same thing. Except now, Vince is fully in
• 1:19:26
  the driving seat, you know, he was worried about WCW.
• 1:19:29
  He's not worried about aw. And I think that like, why
• 1:19:34
  wouldn't you let them go? You know, they'll get good over
• 1:19:36
  there, they'll have their fun and then they'll come back.
• 1:19:39
  Happy to be in a couple of years.
• 1:19:41
  I'm calling. I reckon that's what's gonna
• 1:19:42
  happen. Do you do you believe that do
• 1:19:47
  you think that aw is going to be out of business within three
• 1:19:50
  years or however many years? It really depends.
• 1:19:59
  If they carry on the way that they've been operating, then I
• 1:20:04
  would say, yes. If they start doing, because the
• 1:20:10
  thing is, okay, the past two years.
• 1:20:12
  They've had some real high points if they would replicate
• 1:20:15
  those high points. I think they have a chance.
• 1:20:21
  What are some good examples? Something that they've done?
• 1:20:26
  Well, I think Jon Moxley stuff out the Yeah, that was good.
• 1:20:34
  I don't know what you thought of the Malachi Black debut.
• 1:20:37
  There was a couple issues. I had a couple problems I had
• 1:20:40
  with it that were minor overall. I thought it was very well done
• 1:20:42
  though. Yeah I mean it's amazing that
• 1:20:46
  he's debuted I think that's incredible.
• 1:20:50
  He feels like a big deal. He feels like yeah, something
• 1:20:55
  big. There's a couple of things that
• 1:20:57
  confuse me though, like I thought it was an interesting
• 1:20:59
  choice to have him attack, Cody. Obviously, he's going to go into
• 1:21:04
  a funeral Cody but really Cody is his first and Feud.
• 1:21:09
  That's interesting. I don't know where they're going
• 1:21:11
  to go with that. I mean, obviously, we'll give it
• 1:21:13
  time, we'll see what happens, but it was a bit off as what.
• 1:21:17
  Like, for instance, it was great.
• 1:21:20
  That there were a couple of things that then this is the
• 1:21:22
  problem of a dove you right when they're doing these attacks and
• 1:21:24
  stuff. There's so many holes with it
• 1:21:26
  like oh it's so painful to watch like so when he attacks when he
• 1:21:32
  goes to attack I kind of remember his name now, Cody iron
• 1:21:38
  on a dancer when he goes to attack on Anderson.
• 1:21:41
  You see you see Tony Shivani like sort of shuffling up the
• 1:21:48
  way, right? And on sort of doing a delayed
• 1:21:51
  turn like and then get ready face.
• 1:21:55
  And it's like stuff like that happens all the time with aw and
• 1:21:58
  it's so messy. You don't see that kind of
• 1:22:00
  messiness, really, and then WWE. You see it all the time.
• 1:22:03
  I'm in aw, and it really sucks me out of things, right?
• 1:22:07
  And then obviously, same thing happened with Cody.
• 1:22:10
  The kicks that great but it's like there's too much of a
• 1:22:12
  delay. It's like.
• 1:22:15
  Okay. And then as he's walking at the
• 1:22:17
  ring, I don't know if you saw this but he kept that kind of
• 1:22:20
  like looking back and I and it kind of it was really awkward.
• 1:22:24
  It was like he's like a Classic 50's Villain Like and he's
• 1:22:30
  supposed to be like a mysterious right under Take a type Vibe,
• 1:22:34
  like, doesn't care Solace, but it came across kind of almost
• 1:22:37
  probably comical to me. I don't know.
• 1:22:41
  I just, okay. I I didn't pick up on the last
• 1:22:46
  bit. I'll have to re-watch that that,
• 1:22:49
  that debut the part that I liked about that is so like they kind
• 1:22:53
  of teased with the whole end. Apparently.
• 1:22:55
  There was legitimately lightning storms or some sort of, you
• 1:22:58
  know, storm conditions and Matt Miami where they did the
• 1:23:00
  blackout during the Cody match at the start and then you know,
• 1:23:03
  nothing. So it was like a little Easter
• 1:23:05
  egg but nobody knew kind of this was teasing.
• 1:23:07
  Something that happened later and then when they do the
• 1:23:10
  blackout later, you're like okay there's a North more technical
• 1:23:13
  issues. I thought that was a really nice
• 1:23:15
  way of kind of like not just going straight for the
• 1:23:19
  low-hanging fruit of. Like there's a blackout.
• 1:23:21
  Oh it's Sabu or you know whatever it's gonna end up
• 1:23:23
  happening. I liked that sort of element of
• 1:23:27
  it. So it wasn't super obvious that
• 1:23:29
  somebody was debuting. I liked his specific attention
• 1:23:33
  to detail on account of. Yeah you left up to be at the
• 1:23:36
  eye injury and then he kind of had like the all messed up.
• 1:23:39
  I with like the weird bruising or whatever it was.
• 1:23:41
  I thought, I think he's gonna be a huge star and I think to kind
• 1:23:45
  of circle back around. I'm making this prediction right
• 1:23:49
  now. Here's my hot take of the
• 1:23:50
  episode. I think.
• 1:23:52
  Within three years, aew Dynamite's ratings are going to
• 1:23:56
  be higher than Monday Night Raw, Oh yes, bull continues the way
• 1:24:01
  it has been, that's the easy. But what you'll forget her Is we
• 1:24:05
  have life fans back now? There's no excuse WWE is, that's
• 1:24:11
  the reason gun. Go ahead.
• 1:24:13
  Now you go, you go. Well, I, I think that the reason
• 1:24:16
  that aw Dynamite's ratings are going to be bigger than Roz is
• 1:24:19
  because of the live fans. Because if you compare those
• 1:24:22
  shows in front of live audiences, like you mentioned
• 1:24:25
  before, W fans are not unwilling to boo stuff that is stupid or
• 1:24:31
  corny or bad. And like, the deputy has been
• 1:24:34
  fighting with their audience for the better part of gosh.
• 1:24:37
  Over 10 years now. Probably, I mean, you Sure, the
• 1:24:40
  Daniel Bryan thing at WrestleMania 30.
• 1:24:42
  But, you know, probably before that and there's this very much
• 1:24:46
  sort of push pull with that audience, whereas 8uw like is
• 1:24:50
  many faults as they have. And like I consider myself an aw
• 1:24:53
  fan and like it too. I can see that they have issues.
• 1:24:56
  Their fans are. So they're like ECW fans.
• 1:25:00
  You can do no wrong in their eyes when they're they're live.
• 1:25:02
  It's such a hot atmosphere. You could say to one of your
• 1:25:05
  friends like let's go to this wrestling show and they would
• 1:25:08
  come out of that, a ew. Experience, like that was
• 1:25:11
  incredible. Even if the show wasn't great
• 1:25:13
  that just, that live experience would make somebody into a fan,
• 1:25:17
  I don't know that you could say the same thing about WWE.
• 1:25:21
  I agree with that. Yeah, I agree with you.
• 1:25:24
  And this is why I'm because I'm very critical of wrestling in
• 1:25:28
  general because I love it so much.
• 1:25:30
  I want it to be better, that's why I'm so critical and I want
• 1:25:34
  aw to do. Well, I don't want it to go out
• 1:25:35
  of business. I want it to continue because
• 1:25:37
  it's good. It's good for wrestling, it's
• 1:25:38
  good for business. There's that saying, but at the
• 1:25:43
  same time, It's too sloppy with what they're doing.
• 1:25:49
  Yeah, and ironically rep WWE's the same right now, they are but
• 1:25:56
  different instead of being sloppy, they're lazy.
• 1:25:59
  Bra is lazy. Yeah, and I feel like because
• 1:26:02
  they've got to too much money to play with.
• 1:26:05
  They kind of don't care what they put on.
• 1:26:06
  They just put any old thing on because or whatever people still
• 1:26:09
  watch it. And I feel like if they do okay,
• 1:26:12
  to your point, if they continue with that lazy attitude, yeah,
• 1:26:16
  people will stop watching and no company especially wrestling
• 1:26:20
  company is is kind of Can escape that.
• 1:26:25
  At the end of the day, WWE has a very fixed.
• 1:26:29
  Hold they are considered the premier the elite.
• 1:26:33
  They are considered it's all to do with their history, but look,
• 1:26:38
  you know. WCW had a big history back in
• 1:26:41
  the day but then they managed to ruin it.
• 1:26:44
  I think WWE needs to tread carefully and I think with With
• 1:26:50
  what you were saying about the love-hate relationship with the
• 1:26:53
  fans. WWE did always eventually get
• 1:26:56
  people what they wanted. Like, as you mentioned the
• 1:26:58
  Daniel Bryan story that took a long time, but they got and they
• 1:27:01
  got it right at the right Point as well as at WrestleMania 30.
• 1:27:05
  So they gate that that always be a memory.
• 1:27:09
  They didn't they didn't sour it. They didn't ruin it for
• 1:27:11
  everyone. Like it happened.
• 1:27:13
  They can never take that back kind of thing, right?
• 1:27:15
  Right. And then, I disagree with what
• 1:27:18
  you said, but Okay, continue no, tell me what you disagree with.
• 1:27:22
  I like this, this is good. I I think that there are points
• 1:27:26
  that you could, you could say w did not do what the fans were
• 1:27:30
  looking for. And I don't consider myself as a
• 1:27:32
  Crider fan, but oh, they did that laid in Cyprus.
• 1:27:39
  I'm very neutral, but even as an objective, sort of outside
• 1:27:44
  perspective, you can point to Zack Ryder bag.
• 1:27:46
  Oh, wow. Yeah.
• 1:27:47
  They really, they really messed. Them up pretty bad to a lesser
• 1:27:51
  extent Rusev their Rousseff was getting the biggest reaction.
• 1:27:54
  Like, there's probably a lot more examples of that that I'm
• 1:27:57
  thinking of where guys got over. Not because the machine wanted
• 1:28:01
  them to do, but just because that's what organically happened
• 1:28:04
  as much as your Bruce Pritchards.
• 1:28:06
  And whoever else wants to say like, well, why would we you do
• 1:28:09
  not want to make money off of these people?
• 1:28:11
  Like, there's people that they would rather make no money off
• 1:28:14
  of than push and do something with.
• 1:28:16
  Like, there's been plenty of examples of that.
• 1:28:19
  I completely agree with you on that.
• 1:28:21
  Yeah, I'm not discounting those at all that.
• 1:28:24
  They main reasons that I get pissed off and stop watching the
• 1:28:28
  video because it's like, why would they push this guy?
• 1:28:30
  Fuck sake, like Bruce said, name was huge, it was huge.
• 1:28:34
  They had something with that and they just decided to squash it
• 1:28:38
  and I will never understand why Zack Ryder.
• 1:28:42
  I mean, they can, I think they killed his career with that?
• 1:28:46
  To be honest, not not just his momentum, but He has he ever
• 1:28:50
  really been able to recover from that, you know, I mean, even to
• 1:28:53
  this day, I mean, he's in Impact Wrestling is doing his thing.
• 1:28:56
  But I mean, they literally had it was it who was it?
• 1:29:00
  Is it cane or John Cena? They just throw him off a ramp
• 1:29:03
  when he was on a wheelchair laughter ramp.
• 1:29:06
  Then John Cena like took his girlfriend at the.
• 1:29:09
  Yeah, it's like in a wheelchair. So that is yeah.
• 1:29:12
  The most egregious burial of anyone talent I can ever
• 1:29:16
  remember seeing so bad. And it's like, When you look
• 1:29:19
  back at CM Punk, as well as he's blocking the biggest example, I
• 1:29:24
  know I'll never understand what what the plan was that?
• 1:29:27
  Why they were doing that, like they did, they did have a
• 1:29:31
  massive hand in him, becoming the phenomenon that he did, you
• 1:29:35
  know, it's not like, because, to your point, about them being
• 1:29:38
  annoyed about things that happen organically, they very much did
• 1:29:41
  help to manufacture the CM Punk. The he did it himself to that,
• 1:29:45
  they could be wrong, but sure, they were heavily involved with
• 1:29:48
  that and then they just decided Added to destroy the momentum.
• 1:29:51
  He was on a massive high and they just had triplets come out
• 1:29:54
  of retirement and, and just squash him and then go back into
• 1:29:57
  retirement and they are. Wow, yeah.
• 1:30:00
  I Kevin Nash, which like, oh, let's go baby face or maybe he's
• 1:30:04
  a baby face. Maybe he's not against Kevin
• 1:30:05
  Nash. Yeah, there's just a lot of
• 1:30:07
  decisions that are questionable and, and the thing that confuses
• 1:30:12
  me the most about it is that Vince McMahon is always been
• 1:30:16
  purported to be like a businessman, right?
• 1:30:17
  So he's always about what I don't care.
• 1:30:19
  I'll work with anyone. Even people that hate me, it's
• 1:30:22
  about making money and it's that.
• 1:30:23
  Okay, if that's true. Then why are there so many of
• 1:30:26
  these like illogical business decisions?
• 1:30:30
  Like why, why do you decide to do things in this particular
• 1:30:34
  way? Like, For me, it kind of comes
• 1:30:38
  across as like almost like stubbornness.
• 1:30:40
  It's like no, no no. We're going to see this through
• 1:30:42
  going to go with this thing and it's like, yeah, but it's not
• 1:30:44
  working. And then I don't know on the
• 1:30:46
  flip side, You could argue that maybe they are being reactive
• 1:30:51
  towards it now. But in too much of the wrong
• 1:30:53
  way, like, for instance, you see, Ricochet or Cedric
• 1:30:57
  Alexander gets pushed for that two weeks and then suddenly, you
• 1:30:59
  just don't see them on TV anymore.
• 1:31:02
  And it's, it's almost like they start with one guy.
• 1:31:05
  They get excited with this person and then they just stop
• 1:31:08
  bothering with them and it's like, yeah, you need longer than
• 1:31:11
  that to really figure out if someone's got it or got
• 1:31:14
  something, you know, maybe you need probably At least three to
• 1:31:19
  six months. I mean I think like for instance
• 1:31:21
  you take Jinder Mahal is WWE title run.
• 1:31:23
  I thought that was a good experiment.
• 1:31:26
  I mean, I think that I wouldn't have done that with the WWE
• 1:31:29
  Championship but I think they should have done that like
• 1:31:31
  InterContinental or something it was by or so quickly.
• 1:31:35
  I think he'd be like Finn Balor one time then it was like, okay,
• 1:31:38
  now it's a champion. Like yeah, it just felt very
• 1:31:40
  sudden from this guy who had been presented as not at that
• 1:31:44
  level for so long. Yeah.
• 1:31:46
  Will cause the problem with that was that he was a job.
• 1:31:49
  Three months, four months prior to becoming WWE Champion, right?
• 1:31:54
  But In fairness, I think he won a tournament, didn't he?
• 1:31:56
  He came back from injury or something?
• 1:32:00
  No, no, I think he left the company.
• 1:32:02
  That was a No, no, I'm telling ya, I think so.
• 1:32:06
  He's okay, I don't remember it. He did leave at one point he did
• 1:32:09
  leave. I think he left in 2012. 2013,
• 1:32:12
  came back in 2014, 2015 left for a while.
• 1:32:16
  To work at himself, came back ripped, probably on steroids,
• 1:32:19
  right? But yeah, ripped and looking
• 1:32:23
  looking the part and as I okay, let's see where this goes and
• 1:32:26
  then they did the push. And I get that they did it
• 1:32:30
  because of the business in India, but it's like, okay,
• 1:32:32
  sure. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:32:34
  I get it. I think that so many and not to
• 1:32:38
  make this into like a UW vs. WWE, because there's so much of
• 1:32:41
  that online. These so stupid it is stupid and
• 1:32:45
  I can enjoy both shows without necessarily comparing one to the
• 1:32:48
  other, but I think you're right that the aew problems are.
• 1:32:51
  There's a lot of sloppiness, there's things that like, but I
• 1:32:56
  think at the same time that there may Main issues are things
• 1:32:59
  that with experience, they can improve that they can like
• 1:33:02
  identify these things like okay, let's get better at those
• 1:33:05
  things. Assuming that they're willing to
• 1:33:07
  sort of identify those issues. We their main problems are just
• 1:33:12
  so strange and are so emblematic of this big lumbering company.
• 1:33:16
  Like one of the my biggest pet peeves, with WEP is like when
• 1:33:20
  you have somebody in like a mount position that's like,
• 1:33:22
  raining down punches and they do like the shaky Cam and like,
• 1:33:25
  yeah, why are you inventing your own?
• 1:33:28
  Limbs for your program like there that doesn't need to
• 1:33:32
  happen and it's so horrible as a viewer to watch that.
• 1:33:37
  Like it would be easy to fix but it's like you're doing that to
• 1:33:40
  yourselves. There's no one telling you to do
• 1:33:42
  that. Lets just inventing your own
• 1:33:44
  problems at this point. So I don't know.
• 1:33:47
  But that's those are some of the reasons why I think what aw
• 1:33:50
  problems those are fixable W problems.
• 1:33:53
  It's like, you have so many people that are in positions of
• 1:33:55
  power and have been for so long. It's just ingrained into The
• 1:33:58
  philosophy and they would have to do some significant
• 1:34:01
  housecleaning to improve their creative decisions, you know,
• 1:34:06
  how they're treating talent, that sort of thing where I just
• 1:34:10
  icaew trajectory. Now, I don't think them, I don't
• 1:34:13
  think there's a chance of them becoming more profitable than W
• 1:34:17
  within three years, but I do think that their ratings, if not
• 1:34:20
  exceeding raw are going to, it's going to be like neck and neck
• 1:34:22
  every week. I do I do think it's very
• 1:34:26
  possible. Yeah, I mean I think the fact
• 1:34:30
  that they've gotten a second show is huge.
• 1:34:33
  Oh yeah, yeah, I probably won't watch it but I am glad that they
• 1:34:38
  are getting money for it. But yeah, Friday night show, I
• 1:34:42
  mean I don't watch Smackdown for much of that same reason, but
• 1:34:46
  yeah, I mean, I'll probably check it out once or twice,
• 1:34:48
  maybe catch a review of it, but yeah, Rampage on a Friday night
• 1:34:51
  just seems like a show that I pulled probably not end up
• 1:34:55
  watching very often, it will happen.
• 1:34:57
  Is they'll be a significant kind of shift towards certain shows,
• 1:35:02
  the kind of announce themselves to be more worth watching than
• 1:35:05
  others like it shifts all the time.
• 1:35:07
  Like it's weird because obviously war was the a show for
• 1:35:10
  so long and now it's like this crappy little be show, which is
• 1:35:16
  weird. It's got the history, it's still
• 1:35:18
  should be a marquee show but it's like Smackdown is just
• 1:35:21
  presented as The show. Now as far as Deputy is
• 1:35:24
  concerned, and yeah, with aw, I kind of feel like it might be
• 1:35:30
  the same. Like dynamite will be the show
• 1:35:33
  and Rampage will be like probably like how WCW Thunder
• 1:35:37
  was like just kind of like extras.
• 1:35:39
  Yeah, I hope. I mean I don't know what I hope
• 1:35:42
  for because I'm probably not gonna end up watching it.
• 1:35:44
  So like part of me is that I hope it is like thunder.
• 1:35:46
  So then I don't have to bother keeping up with it.
• 1:35:49
  But, you know, for their, I do want them to be successful and I
• 1:35:52
  do hope, you know, that Rampage is a success for whatever that
• 1:35:56
  actually means and current day. You know TV broadcasting so a
• 1:36:04
  little want, some other companies.
• 1:36:05
  What do you think about Impact Wrestling?
• 1:36:09
  I mean I don't follow that I used to follow them back in like
• 1:36:13
  the a j-style, Samoa Joe days, that sort of thing.
• 1:36:17
  But yeah, I mean I'll catch Clips here and there but yeah, I
• 1:36:22
  don't, I mean I'm shocked at they're still around I guess
• 1:36:25
  that would be my, my summary statement about Impact
• 1:36:28
  Wrestling, but I have seen I've seen them live, they've come up
• 1:36:30
  to Seattle region. I don't know, a decade ago, back
• 1:36:34
  in the day styles days, but yeah, good for them.
• 1:36:37
  I guess I'm shocked that they still exist in some Former
• 1:36:39
  fashion. I do think that them Co
• 1:36:42
  promoting to a certain degree with like New Japan.
• 1:36:44
  And aw, I think that's really good for pro wrestling.
• 1:36:47
  I'll say that. I'm kind of surprised.
• 1:36:49
  I haven't been bowl out yet. I thought aw would just buy them
• 1:36:53
  out. I thought that's where the the
• 1:36:54
  recent partnership they had. I thought that's where that was
• 1:36:57
  going. I actually had a weird suspicion
• 1:36:59
  that maybe there s show would end up being impact.
• 1:37:03
  Oh, yeah. That could let me I could see
• 1:37:05
  them like if aw wanted to kind of start up their own Work sort
• 1:37:09
  of service. I think having that tape library
• 1:37:12
  for TNA Impact would be a huge deal for them, but who knows
• 1:37:15
  what? That's even an option on the
• 1:37:16
  table, but that would be a good idea for them if they could do
• 1:37:19
  it. It's weird.
• 1:37:21
  Isn't it? Like how some of these companies
• 1:37:23
  still exists? The are pretty much just going
• 1:37:27
  off the, their previous day's really.
• 1:37:30
  I feel like impact is just hanging on by a thread because
• 1:37:33
  of its history. And same is true of Ring of
• 1:37:36
  Honor. What do you think about Ring of
• 1:37:38
  Honor these days? Really haven't kept up with Ring
• 1:37:41
  of Honor at all. I know Dan housing is there.
• 1:37:44
  Oh yeah of course I know they have Roush and a couple of other
• 1:37:48
  former Lawson gopinath Place guys.
• 1:37:51
  I don't, I haven't why. I know a lot of there was a fair
• 1:37:54
  amount of buzz back with the Marty, scroll thing that
• 1:37:58
  contract signing happened, obviously that was like
• 1:38:01
  immediately before the pandemic and then the whole wrestling me
• 1:38:05
  to or whatever, you know. That's that's stuff that
• 1:38:08
  happened. And he kind of made a quick exit
• 1:38:12
  after that but yeah I don't really I haven't followed Ring
• 1:38:14
  of Honor since like the mid early 2000s like the CM Punk
• 1:38:19
  Samoa Joe Bryan, Danielson. Like I remember getting a couple
• 1:38:22
  there early pay-per-views again, I'm glad that they're around.
• 1:38:25
  I'm glad that they have selfishly.
• 1:38:27
  I will say, I hope that that New Japan partnership has ended
• 1:38:30
  because I would love to be able to see New Japan guys on aew
• 1:38:34
  Dynamite. Um, the idea of You know Suzuki
• 1:38:39
  or okada or one of those guys, you know, being able to work
• 1:38:42
  matches with 8uw or an ADW pay-per-view, which is a
• 1:38:45
  promotion that I follow a lot more closely.
• 1:38:48
  That is very appealing to me. So I wish them nothing but the
• 1:38:51
  best, but I'm glad that their New Japan partnership seems to
• 1:38:54
  be to solving. I gotta say, on Ring of Honor
• 1:38:58
  and I hate to say it, but it's just true.
• 1:39:01
  Like you said with the history, you know, so many wrestlers that
• 1:39:05
  were in Ring of Honor, went to WWE eventually.
• 1:39:07
  So they did put on good shows, they have put on good shows, but
• 1:39:11
  when I dropped in, about 2 years ago, or a year ago, whenever it
• 1:39:14
  was just to watch a couple of matches.
• 1:39:18
  I was stunned, how sloppy it was?
• 1:39:22
  Like, I've never been that stump of a good because with aw, when
• 1:39:26
  it's sloppy. It's like our this is
• 1:39:27
  forgivable, it's a bit silly, but this is for Gilliam
• 1:39:29
  forgivable, right? But Ring of Honor.
• 1:39:32
  It was like watching a terrible Indie show.
• 1:39:35
  Where the guise of Of like, I don't know.
• 1:39:39
  Just recently finished wrestling school.
• 1:39:40
  And it's like, then second match in or something.
• 1:39:42
  Like, it was, it was embarrassing.
• 1:39:44
  I was like, wow, like how are they putting this on TV?
• 1:39:48
  But this is shameful and I hate to be so critical, but it's like
• 1:39:53
  when you've got products like WWE, aw impact, New Japan, who
• 1:39:57
  have regular TV contract and this is the TV series that
• 1:40:01
  you're putting out. It's like Do better.
• 1:40:04
  You got you got to do better? I don't know to see.
• 1:40:07
  I haven't checked them out in a while.
• 1:40:08
  I heard that good things about their pure title tournament that
• 1:40:10
  they ran. I think it was like, last some
• 1:40:13
  time last year, I want to say, but yeah, I haven't really
• 1:40:16
  checked him out. I don't even know where to find
• 1:40:18
  them honestly. But for me like Ring of Honor
• 1:40:21
  and mlw are kind of at that tier of wrestling.
• 1:40:24
  That I just I just I don't have time to seek that out.
• 1:40:29
  Like my wrestling palette right now is more or less maxed out.
• 1:40:33
  Have you ever seen mlw? Have you ever checked out then a
• 1:40:36
  while? But yes I remember watching a
• 1:40:39
  few episodes. I've heard about the whole like
• 1:40:42
  Lucha underground sort of connection that they've had
• 1:40:44
  recently. But yeah, I remember seeing some
• 1:40:46
  Brian pillman matches. Here's a call out of a guy that
• 1:40:50
  I think is great and I hope he gets a bigger platform in the
• 1:40:54
  near future Hammerstone. Yeah, we're stone is a dude who
• 1:40:57
  gets it. I love watching him work.
• 1:41:00
  He's a guy who's super like, Takes it seriously, like you
• 1:41:05
  totally believable in the ring has enough cares Charisma and
• 1:41:09
  personality to kind of bring you into his matches.
• 1:41:11
  I think he's going to be a big star.
• 1:41:13
  Yeah. And this is one of the reasons
• 1:41:15
  why I would say it sometimes is worth dropping into some of
• 1:41:19
  these promotions like Ring of Honor, mlw impact and so on.
• 1:41:24
  Because every now and again you do find one of these wrestlers.
• 1:41:27
  That's yeah, they're a big like when I look at how much time I'm
• 1:41:29
  like that that guy could be world champion in a company.
• 1:41:32
  He's Yeah, it's got something I think he already has been in
• 1:41:35
  them with of u.s. lie, but in another company, yeah, you give
• 1:41:38
  them a big enough stage. I mean, I think yeah.
• 1:41:40
  MJ off for a long time was wrestling in ml W, so it was
• 1:41:45
  Brian pillman jr. I think.
• 1:41:47
  Harry Smith, junior or has sorry?
• 1:41:50
  Yeah. How is David?
• 1:41:52
  What's his name? David Smith.
• 1:41:53
  He's a British bulldogs son. Right?
• 1:41:56
  How are you so? Sure.
• 1:41:57
  Yeah. Davey Boy, Smith junior with
• 1:41:58
  Davey Boy Smith. Something along those lines.
• 1:42:00
  Yeah, a little Bulldog will call nobody.
• 1:42:03
  Little little small dog. I mean, he's taller than his dad
• 1:42:08
  was Carrie. Smith is so I think you're
• 1:42:12
  right, he was really visually impressive.
• 1:42:14
  He'd obviously been in WWE before as well, and I'm happy to
• 1:42:17
  see that he's doing working New Japan now, as well, and he had
• 1:42:20
  previously, and I feel like we're certain promotions.
• 1:42:24
  It's like, if you're in them or, you know, it's as long as you're
• 1:42:28
  getting TV time, as a professional wrestler, that's
• 1:42:30
  always something really positive from what I've noticed.
• 1:42:32
  If you're The Indies, the in these are way better than they
• 1:42:35
  were 10 years ago, 20 years ago, 30 years ago.
• 1:42:38
  What they go in Cycles but it's yeah these days.
• 1:42:41
  It's like, you can have a career on Indies.
• 1:42:43
  But yeah, if you do have TV time, you just that level above,
• 1:42:49
  I mean you're being seen aren't you?
• 1:42:50
  So if you're being seen you're going to get more bookings.
• 1:42:53
  Going to be better for your career and you know obviously if
• 1:42:56
  you get pay-per-view matches and stuff then hey you're making
• 1:42:58
  money so yeah. Absolutely.
• 1:43:02
  Yeah, some exciting talents in those companies thoughts on on
• 1:43:07
  NWA have you ever checked out and wa I remember watching Power
• 1:43:11
  when it first came out like that for me when I was commuting in
• 1:43:14
  into and away from the office. That was like a really nice show
• 1:43:17
  that I could kind of watch on the bus on the way in that sort
• 1:43:21
  of thing. I really loved it.
• 1:43:22
  I really enjoyed it. I thought it was different
• 1:43:25
  enough because so many of these shows like you mentioned like
• 1:43:27
  Ring of Honor Ring of Honor in many cases kind of seems like a
• 1:43:31
  lie. Sort of an version of some of
• 1:43:34
  the other companies that exist out there, like, you know,
• 1:43:36
  because they're not putting in them like the wrestling style
• 1:43:38
  similar, but they just don't have the budget or not
• 1:43:40
  allocating the budget for some of those other things.
• 1:43:43
  The NWA was so unique, it gave it its own personality.
• 1:43:48
  So like I really enjoyed watching it it just you know
• 1:43:52
  kind of fell off the face of the Earth for a little while and I
• 1:43:54
  haven't brought myself to get back into it since then you made
• 1:43:59
  a really good point though, which I stink I totally agree
• 1:44:02
  with the the issue of presentation.
• 1:44:06
  It's one of the main reasons, I can't bring myself to watch
• 1:44:09
  Impact Wrestling because and then other shows, like Ring of
• 1:44:12
  Honor. Because yeah, the way they
• 1:44:14
  present it is literally just basically an indie show, but it
• 1:44:18
  televised and I feel like one of the biggest reasons to watch.
• 1:44:22
  Aw and WWE is just the way it's presented.
• 1:44:25
  It's presented as a big deal. You come out, you have a big
• 1:44:27
  grand entrance. You got fans screaming like it's
• 1:44:31
  it's a It visual perspective and and that's why we've missed fans
• 1:44:35
  so much. As well as obviously having them
• 1:44:38
  there, makes it that much more appealing, but when you've got
• 1:44:41
  these shows like Ring of Honor with or without fans, like what
• 1:44:45
  1,000 people cheering, it just doesn't sound very impressive.
• 1:44:49
  And then the stage they come through is like a tiny little
• 1:44:51
  watch way or whatever and it's yeah, right.
• 1:44:54
  And the obviously look I'm not I'm not trying to be hard on
• 1:44:57
  them. As far as, you know, you work
• 1:44:59
  with what you have, you know, and what Matters most is what's
• 1:45:03
  in the ring and storylines that will always be the most
• 1:45:05
  important thing. But the way you present it that
• 1:45:07
  I've got to say, I think aw, one of the biggest reasons are doing
• 1:45:10
  so well, is because it looks legit.
• 1:45:12
  It looks kind of it looks kind of, like, how a WWE books
• 1:45:16
  sometimes, you know, but not the full extent, but I'll be honest.
• 1:45:20
  Aw, the way it's presented remind it'll to me.
• 1:45:23
  It looks like 2000s. WWE.
• 1:45:27
  Yeah, I see that you know, Mila when they were doing all like in
• 1:45:31
  impressive kind of backlash Vengeance, you know all those
• 1:45:35
  pay-per-views, he kind of has the same Vibe and I feel like
• 1:45:37
  the wrestling is kind of the same.
• 1:45:39
  Like, when I, when I see a good, aw pay-per-view, it just makes
• 1:45:45
  me think of those really sort of tie pay-per-views in the 2000s.
• 1:45:48
  WWE, because dummy to be in the 2000s.
• 1:45:51
  It wasn't Attitude Era, it wasn't early 2000s stuff.
• 1:45:55
  But But it was still good. There was still some good stuff
• 1:45:58
  there and solid shell. Absolutely, yeah, that was for
• 1:46:02
  me like a second Renaissance of pro wrestling, you know?
• 1:46:04
  Just yeah, I love, I can always go back to like the early 90s
• 1:46:08
  stuff that I grew up on but, you know, the, The Attitude Era and
• 1:46:11
  I think in ring honestly, that later portion of like, you know,
• 1:46:15
  2000 2001, 2002, I think the in ring was probably a little bit
• 1:46:21
  better than it had been previously.
• 1:46:24
  I don't know if that's because the It wasn't because of the the
• 1:46:27
  dim erring of the fan interest or anything like that.
• 1:46:30
  But you know, they definitely started focusing more on the
• 1:46:32
  in-ring component around that time.
• 1:46:36
  One question I wanted to ask you, which I didn't ask earlier,
• 1:46:39
  but we've touched on a little bit here and there, let's say
• 1:46:44
  that you have to sell wrestling to someone who's never watched
• 1:46:47
  wrestling before. Okay, why should people watch
• 1:46:51
  wrestling in your opinion? I think it's a completely unique
• 1:46:57
  art form. That is totally unlike anything
• 1:47:00
  else that exists. And like the I think I've
• 1:47:03
  actually even told my co-host this I've sort of made this
• 1:47:06
  analogy and then the past on the show, but more, let's let's take
• 1:47:10
  specifically, I can Indie show because I think W you can sit in
• 1:47:14
  front of the TV and kind of be a little bit interested in like
• 1:47:17
  three hours. Two hours is a big ask of
• 1:47:19
  anybody, but I think that if you're going to like an
• 1:47:21
  independent wrestling show or even just a dub dub, Show live
• 1:47:24
  or something like that, the ability for the performers to
• 1:47:28
  like, make you feel, and it's really up to them.
• 1:47:30
  Because if you look at other forms of art, whether whether it
• 1:47:33
  be like a musician or a stand-up comedian or any other live
• 1:47:38
  performances, like their end goal, for the most part is to
• 1:47:42
  like get a very specific thing out of you or like to do one
• 1:47:46
  specific thing. Whereas with wrestling they have
• 1:47:49
  the autonomy especially again on the Indies.
• 1:47:52
  Like if I want to make you mad, Mad.
• 1:47:54
  I can wrestle a match that will make you mad and then the only
• 1:47:56
  limitation is my own skill set. If I want to make you laugh, I
• 1:48:00
  can make you laugh. It like I can elicit any emotion
• 1:48:03
  from you that I want in the context of like simulated
• 1:48:07
  combat. And that in and of itself I
• 1:48:09
  think is so unique compared to anything else that exists.
• 1:48:14
  And like that's for me is someone who like enjoys the
• 1:48:17
  performance element of certain things.
• 1:48:19
  Like I can see that and just just be inspired Hired by the
• 1:48:24
  amount of creativity that they can happen, the ring and how
• 1:48:27
  much it's like up to the performers to do whatever.
• 1:48:30
  Makes the most sense you know for what they're trying to get
• 1:48:33
  at. Degree Moon.
• 1:48:37
  I'm going to fire some like random questions that you just
• 1:48:39
  like General look at pressing questions.
• 1:48:41
  So and I think you can hear the natives like any other natives.
• 1:48:44
  Getting restless upstairs. So I'll make it.
• 1:48:46
  I'll make it quick. I'll do a rapid fire after fire.
• 1:48:49
  Okay, greatest wrestler of all time Because I've always said
• 1:48:57
  Shawn Michaels, I'm going to go with Bret Hart just but not from
• 1:48:59
  like total body of work wise. I'm going for like the absolute
• 1:49:02
  best at their Peak. I'm going to say Bret Hart, but
• 1:49:04
  I think total body work wise. It's Sean.
• 1:49:06
  Just because his career lasted forever.
• 1:49:08
  If you can count to like in, no, an innumerable number of matches
• 1:49:12
  that are just classic matches that holdup worst restaurant
• 1:49:16
  will tongue horse truster of all time.
• 1:49:19
  Wow, I mean, I think on a major scale just based on my own
• 1:49:22
  experience I'll have to say great.
• 1:49:24
  Okay, most overrated wrestler of all time, overrated, so many of
• 1:49:31
  these things and for anyone who stuck with us for all this time
• 1:49:33
  is not like a big wrestling fan. There's an element.
• 1:49:36
  First of all, I thank you but but secondly, secondly, there's
• 1:49:42
  lives there's overrated from the perspective of like in ring
• 1:49:45
  performance and then versus just like how big of a star their
• 1:49:48
  perceived as I as a human being, I hate the Ultimate Warrior so
• 1:49:52
  I'll have it. To a certain degree.
• 1:49:57
  I'll just say Ultimate Warrior that'll just be my answer.
• 1:49:59
  Most underrated rest of all time of all time.
• 1:50:06
  Beautiful, Bobby, interesting choice.
• 1:50:10
  Yeah, I love. I love beautiful.
• 1:50:12
  Bobby has a kid. I don't know why, because, like,
• 1:50:15
  my favorite, as a kid was Hulk, Hogan, beautiful.
• 1:50:18
  Bobby is nothing like Hulk Hogan in any way, shape, or form, but
• 1:50:21
  I always just really he just seemed like such a likeable guy
• 1:50:23
  and as I've kind of gone through over the years, like, I can
• 1:50:26
  always re-watch a beautiful Bobby match back.
• 1:50:29
  That guy was so good. Like if he came around 20 years
• 1:50:33
  later like he would be Getting that sort of fan push reaction
• 1:50:37
  of like let's get beautiful Bobby in the main event at
• 1:50:39
  WrestleMania. Like I'm convinced that would be
• 1:50:41
  the case who's the best wrestler in the world right now.
• 1:50:46
  Oh man gosh. These are hard-hitting
• 1:50:48
  questions. Christian I wasn't expecting to
• 1:50:51
  death. You like the Walter Cronkite of
• 1:50:53
  podcast these days. Thank you.
• 1:51:01
  Who is the best wrestler in the world right now?
• 1:51:02
  It's tough. Isn't it?
• 1:51:03
  Because you don't, what do you base it on?
• 1:51:05
  Are we just talking right? Great.
• 1:51:06
  Are we talking promos or both? Okay, I'm going to give a
• 1:51:11
  non-answer. Well, I'll give you an answer
• 1:51:13
  but I think character-wise all kind of differentiated by that
• 1:51:17
  character-wise. Roman Reigns is doing really
• 1:51:20
  great work right now like he is on fire and I think everyone
• 1:51:27
  knew he was really, really good. I don't think that people
• 1:51:29
  realize She was this good. So Roman Reigns, I think from a
• 1:51:31
  character standpoint and is in rearing, work is very good as
• 1:51:34
  well. He would have to be up there as
• 1:51:37
  far as in ring. Again, I kind of I skew towards
• 1:51:40
  New Japan and a lot of kind of the in-ring stuff like that.
• 1:51:44
  Okada is probably. I mean his run like right now if
• 1:51:48
  you were to watch an avocado match.
• 1:51:50
  Yeah. But like, I think he's the
• 1:51:52
  greatest champion of the modern era of the past.
• 1:51:55
  Like 10, 15 years. If you think New Japan
• 1:51:58
  championed, you Have to think okada like that rain that he had
• 1:52:02
  where he was having the matches against Omega and shibata and
• 1:52:07
  all end in Suzuki and like that. That was just so good.
• 1:52:10
  So I'm going to say that bleeds over into 2021 okada is still
• 1:52:16
  the best until proven otherwise. Okay, let's switch it up now,
• 1:52:20
  and ask you a question. I ask all of my guests, probably
• 1:52:23
  my favorite question to ask my guests and get your thinking
• 1:52:26
  cap, okay? Okay.
• 1:52:29
  It's the biggest life lesson that you've learned so far, um,
• 1:52:35
  I'm Gonna Keep It podcast Centric because that's what's on
• 1:52:38
  my brain right now. There's probably other life
• 1:52:40
  lessons, I could think that but I'll just I'll do podcast.
• 1:52:42
  I think just is long as you were passionate about what you were
• 1:52:47
  doing. Ting weather be in your job of
• 1:52:49
  work or you're doing something to kind of fulfill yourself
• 1:52:52
  creatively outside of that, that I think is the most important
• 1:52:56
  thing because like, especially for myself and we were talking a
• 1:52:59
  little bit off. Are about kind of like creative
• 1:53:01
  hurdles and things that kind of like make you like doubt
• 1:53:04
  yourself. And I know for a while here,
• 1:53:06
  I've been doing a lot of kind of interviews on different podcast
• 1:53:09
  and there were points where I was getting really down on
• 1:53:11
  myself like oh this isn't going as well, but, you know, I think
• 1:53:16
  Just as long as you feel creatively fulfilled.
• 1:53:19
  And as long as what you're doing, is something that means a
• 1:53:23
  lot to you, that will come through and that will shine out
• 1:53:27
  to other people. I think I am a true believer
• 1:53:29
  that if you do something long enough and it's good enough
• 1:53:33
  eventually, like people will begin to notice that, it's just
• 1:53:36
  a matter of not quitting on it so early where you, you know,
• 1:53:40
  shot yourself in the foot about getting noticed.
• 1:53:42
  So that was kind of a weird amalgam of different Things.
• 1:53:46
  But I think do things that you're passionate about and as
• 1:53:48
  long as you have a belief in that thing that people will
• 1:53:53
  notice, you just have to stick with it.
• 1:53:56
  Thank you. Yeah, I needed to hear that as
• 1:53:58
  well actually. That's a really, that's a really
• 1:54:00
  good. That's a good one.
• 1:54:01
  Thank you. Now, I could talk to you all day
• 1:54:05
  about wrestling but I've already taken two hours of your life, so
• 1:54:09
  it's very ominous when you say it that way.
• 1:54:11
  Christian. Wow.
• 1:54:16
  Your life, you'll never get it back.
• 1:54:21
  As we draw things to a close for the day.
• 1:54:22
  Do you have any upcoming projects or maybe some final
• 1:54:25
  thoughts you'd like to share with our listeners?
• 1:54:28
  I mean, the main project is is the hard work podcast, as you
• 1:54:31
  mentioned so generously at the very beginning.
• 1:54:33
  But yeah. It's a it's a Bi weekly podcast,
• 1:54:36
  every other Thursday we have. In fact, I think probably around
• 1:54:39
  the time that this makes are will be putting out our 30th
• 1:54:42
  episode, which is going to be our Pig Deathmatch.
• 1:54:46
  Ocular where we watch Terry Funk versus Cactus Jack of the king
• 1:54:50
  of the Deathmatch tournament. So be on the lookout for that.
• 1:54:53
  You can follow us on Instagram. I think Instagram is a really
• 1:54:56
  nice companion piece, especially for anyone who's never watched
• 1:54:58
  wrestling before. Well, I'll post a lot of clips
• 1:55:01
  of matches and kind of commentary from the episodes.
• 1:55:04
  I think it's a nice sort of sort of companion piece to the
• 1:55:07
  program itself. So if you have the opportunity,
• 1:55:09
  I'd highly encourage that you check out my love letter to pro
• 1:55:12
  wrestling. The hard Mark podcast.
• 1:55:16
  Thank you so much for being an excellent guest.
• 1:55:18
  This has been an absolute pleasure for me.
• 1:55:20
  Always love talking about wrestling.
• 1:55:22
  You've been fantastic, you're always.
• 1:55:24
  Welcome back on the show, whatever you want to come.
• 1:55:27
  And yeah, just thank you. Absolutely, thank you Christian.
• 1:55:30
  Appreciate the the time and I'm sure the you and I will have a
• 1:55:33
  lot more heated. Aww, discussions in the near
• 1:55:36
  future, can't wait for it. Can't wait for it.
• 1:55:39
  And to everyone listening to the Christian Reef podcast.
• 1:55:42
  Thank you. As always, let me know your
• 1:55:44
  thoughts on this one, in the Points below or on Spotify,
• 1:55:47
  Google podcast, Apple podcasts, all the different places that we
• 1:55:50
  are existing in the podcast realm.
• 1:55:53
  Thanks for listening, be safe, be well, and I'll see you in the
• 1:55:56
  next one.