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Episode 810: Coming Home To Our Bodies with Esther Goldstein, LCSW · The Trauma Therapist

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Trauma Therapist Podcast. Plus listeners can listen to episodes early and ad free right
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now. Become a Plus listener by going to Apple Podcasts searching for the Trauma
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Therapist Podcast and signing up today. All right, welcome back to the Trauma
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Thepist podcast. My name is Gamiferson. My mission is to help trauma therapist
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be their incredible selves, to be human, to be real, not just
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a clinician. I'm a big believer in who we are is more important than
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what we know, and this requires cultivating authenticity, genuineness, and vulnerability,
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Let's get started right five four, three, two and one. Folks,
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Welcome back to the podcast. Very excited to have it back. Esther
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Goldstein, Esther welcome, so happy to be here. Happy twenty twenty four.
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Awesome, awesome, so. Esther Goldstein, LCSW is a psychotherapist and
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trauma specialist with a private practice in cedar Hurst, Long Island, New York.
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She specializes in treating anxiety, trauma complex PTSD, and associated disorders.
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ESTER provides trauma informed consultation to therapists committed to improving their trauma inform practice and
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attachment focused AMDR consultation to therapists attaining hours towards EMDR IA certification. Esther welcome
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back. So happy to be here. All right, So we're going to
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talk about coming home for bodies. What does that mean to you? Maing
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home? Yeah, I think first of all, I just want to thank
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you so much just for existing. I remember that I came to your podcast
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many years ago. It's always been a rich resource. I'm remembering the first
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conversation I had on here, the second, which, by the way,
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I got incredible feedback from. So I just want to tell you we're just
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talking about the concept of coming home to our bodies, and I think that
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sometimes not sometimes. While we were talking briefly, this thing, well,
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life is an interesting one. Actually. One of the things I have been
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focusing on recently, besides for my group practice, is really supporting therapists like
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with their trauma unformed therapy skills. I have consultation groups and a training and
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one of the things that I realized is that I don't know if it's always
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a matter of like finding the you know, like the golden nugget or like
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the silver bullet, or some like brilliant intervention or skill or piece of knowledge
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for our clients. But it's about helping our clients find a way to tolerate
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being in their body and then over time, finding a sense of home in
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their body. And so I just wondered if we could talk about that as
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humans, as people. I know it's been a lot of my own life
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work. What does it mean to connect with my body? What does it
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mean to get to understand the cells in my body, the nerves, psychological
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experience, and yeah, coming home? How it's how I think life is
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a matter of like coming home again and again. Yeah, I love that
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concept. I don't know if I've heard it articulated exactly like that. So
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what does what does that look like? You know you talked about well,
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I don't know if it's about finding that right specific intervention so much as kind
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of inviting your clients back to there. What does what does that look like?
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How do you do that? Okay? You know, I love how
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you asked questions and you're like it sounds cool, but like, how do
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I actually do that? You know, I'll tell you why I'm bringing out
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this topic now, because I know that when I was younger, I used
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to be like, hey, I'm doing this training, and then I'm doing
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that training, and so many times I was so busy in the rush,
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and a lot of it was like, on the one hand, is hunger
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to learn, and also like insecurity of am I actually helping people? And
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then as I grew as a person, and as I did my own work,
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and as I started supporting other therapists in doing you know, trauma work
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or somatic informed work, and I just finished my three year since remotor training,
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and I've done a lot of somatic work. What I realized is that
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the goal for ourselves as therapists or anyone in the helping field, as parents,
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and especially for our clients as well, is to be able to embody
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our bodies. And what does that mean? Okay, so just coming back,
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I think that one of the most frightening things, one of the reasons
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why we rush drop like the Estergolds thing, rushing to trainings, right,
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the concept of rushing. I just hopped off of a consulting with one of
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my staff right before our call, and she has this client that's like rushing
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and like, are we doing attachment work? Are we working on this kind
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of attachment issue? Are we working on this anxiety? And I was thinking
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about the concept of rushing and how a lot of times as human being,
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nation, as New Yorkers, but we have a part of us that has
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this tendency to rush. Right. There's different survival strategies that the mind and
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body go to, and we're faced with a lot of like anxiety or fear,
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or maybe we have different kind of struggles or our clients have struggles.
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And I think one of the biggest pieces, at least I found for myself
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is that although I was always a person who looked outward, a lot of
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the answers were within myself. Stay with me because I hate when people say
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you just need your saple. Answers lie within yourself. But I had to
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learn and I've done this with clients, and I see this with therapists as
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well, because your clients can sniff if you're not in your own body,
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can't tell us to come home to their body. If you're not any body
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is Can I notice the emotions and the sensations and the language of my body
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and be with it? Because living life, our body, the sensations,
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the thoughts, the feelings are so many times sometimes they feel nice, and
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sometimes they feel scary, and sometimes they feel uncomfortable, not sometimes a lot
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of times. And learning to orient to like our lives, our minds,
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our bodies, our experiences from the past, the present, and the future
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is honestly where I think the answer lies. And I'm happy to talk about
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like how do we do that? But I just want to say that is
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like, that's like a goal I think for most people living this thing called
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life if they want to do it, okay or well yeah, yeah,
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yeah, no. I appreciate that, and I agree with that. And
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as you're talking about that, I'm realizing that it's something I'm guilty of myself.
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I Mean, it's hard, and especially when you're talking about people who've
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experienced trauma, it's like, I don't want to be in my body.
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I don't trust my body. It's scary. But it's how do we how
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do you, as a therapist invite someone to do that? What does that
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look like? Yeah, first of all, one of the scariest things when
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we've gone through trauma or when our clients have gone through trauma, and when
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there's a lot of stress. Right, then what happens is that we develop
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this like phobic avoidance to sensation or experience. Pubic avoidance is kind of like
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when I have this phobia the sphere and avoidance because I'm going to avoid something
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that makes me uncomfortable, so I'm like, oh, oh, I'm going
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to run as far away from that as possible. And some people do that
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with the rushing right overworking, numbing out, drinking alcohol, and maybe having
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certain behaviors. Other people with like kind of spacing out, getting disconnected.
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Other people might have that with like chronic anxiety. Everybody's body and mind have
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different ways of coping with whatever the feeling inside or the thought or the fear
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is. So the way that I think is really helpful, I could just
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just speak like the language of humans, right, just drop for one second.
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I saw a quote the other day that was talking about how like the
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opposite of disconnection isn't like connection. It's not a matter of like, oh,
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you're pushing away, so I'm going to reach for you. It's like
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presence. It's present, like be present with me, and oh no,
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it's ad. The opposite of danger isn't is it? Safety. It's connection.
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Ah, the opposite of danger, yeah is in safety. It's connection,
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right, like secure connection. So when you're talking about trauma, I
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think the ways that we help people or that we or that yeah, to
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be able to come back home to themselves is when you're terrified. When I
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see the face of terror on your face. Okay, I'm not telling you
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to face the terror. I see the terror, and I'm here. I'm
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so number one. Because one of the most terrifying things we all know this
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when we go through trauma or pain, or any kind of experience where we
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feel misunderstood or confused, right, or violated, is that we feel disconnected
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from our minds and bodies. Right, We feel disconnected from ourselves, and
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then it feels horrible to be a hollow person walking around the world feeling nothing
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or feeling too much. Right, we're disconnected from others. And just the
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experience of having someone be present with you in that experience and maybe like saying
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something if that's appropriate, or just that presence that is the first thing of
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like of like, I'm here with you. And even if there's only five
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percent of the cells in your body present, because ninety five percent of you
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is dissociating or is disconnected because it's too painful. I'm here with much of
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you is here, or with the pain that your body is holding. Just
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share. Being able to share that with another human being is very powerful.
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I think sharing that and I think being the presence of I could just speak
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for my own self, like I as a human being, as a therapist,
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as a friend, as a mom, like I can sense when somebody
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is present, when somebody could feel with me in my pain, when somebody
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can hold with me in whatever it is and has capacity. And I think
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that like one of the biggest pieces and one of the biggest gifts we can
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give people is that holding space. Like we know that right. You know
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some people like they ask you how are you? And they stay there and
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they hold a gaze or they're with you and they're okay with whatever it is
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you say. And there's other people that are like, how are you right?
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So I'm here, I think, and I just have to stay because
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I'm going to add on to this because you're asking the second piece just so
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you know, about how do we help people be in their bodies? Is
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we want to help Like I guess the swear comes into the somatic piece is
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that we want to help the body, like the cellular memory of the body,
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lessen some of the burden, the pain or whatever it is, like
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the template, like the stamp that was stamped on the person right on,
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like their somatic memory, to lessen the impact so they can actually be in
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their skin in a way that doesn't feel as uncomfortable. And I think part
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of our ability to be present, like I can be present with the clients
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trauma or pain, burdens or whatever it is they're holding when I feel confident
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and skilled enough to take them there, Meaning they might not be ready for
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one session, two sessions, six months a year, But if I feel
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confident and skilled and if I'm not frightened by whatever it is they're holding,
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they'll feel that, and then when they're ready, I'm going to take them
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there. What is required of you as a therapist to get to that point?
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You talked about being skilled and ready and so forth. How do you
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How does one get there? How does one develop that? Yeah, I
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think it's a combination of things. So I think one of the ways is
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by being deepening your capacity to connect, to connect and connect could be with
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yourself. I mean it always starts with ourselves to connect with ourselves, with
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others, and then with our clients. I'm just going to simplify this so
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I know for myself, Like there was a time where, like, I've
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written blogs that people have like thanked me for, and I was thinking because
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and they're very heart heartfelt alright, like stories or I'll just share. And
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I remember thinking, like, what is it sometimes about a blog that I'll
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write or a conversation I have that people feel so resonant about. And it
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was the articles or the conversations that I had when I was very connected to
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my own self, when I was really embodying what I was talking about,
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which, by the way, doesn't mean that I was perfect. Sometimes I
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was actually even like struggling with a concept. But I was like, not
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a blog out there, or there isn't enough conversation around this topic and this
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is something that I'm navigating, or this is something I'm seeing so many clients
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struggling with. Let's have some real conversations about it. Give it some space
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on this planet. So I think it's I think it's the the noticing capacities
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to connect and even if you notice like that you connect or disconnect, understanding
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your own survival strategies, knowing the times that you check in or out understand
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so like first even just like intellectually understanding what your template is. That's like
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the basic psycho education, like oh I'm a bit more avoidant, or oh
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I'm a bit more anxious, or oh I actually have a tendency to intellectualize
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understanding yourself. And I think the other piece is like learning to be more
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present in your body. Now, it doesn't mean you have to be one
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hundred percent present, because we all have times that will more or less,
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but like practically, look, I think it's like getting good somatic training.
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That's why I'm super passionate about. Like when I run team meetings every Monday,
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we have a two hour team meeting. My staff always say they're like
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Esther because I start with like a meditation. We just start with meditation to
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drop into our bodies or notice what's going on, and then we'll talk about
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like a strength, a struggle, and a need, and then we dive
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into of each person and then we dive into clinical consult And they're like,
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as, do you have such a calm demeanor. I don't know if it's
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I mean, some of it's calm, and it's the work that I've done
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and I'm committed to doing as a person. But some of it's that there's
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somatic skills that I've learned, but that I've also embodied, right, Like
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I've learned somatic skills, I've had consultants look at my work, and I've
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received somatic therapy. So there's like a there's prosody, there's tone, there's
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like intonations, there's learning to read people's body language or the muscle tone.
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And so it's not that you're like seeing through them. Remember one consultant was
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like, We're going to help you learn to read the language or the beliefs
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of people's bodies. And I was like, so do you see all of
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our negative beliefs or traumas written all over us? And she started laughing.
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I'm like, I don't want to know, you know, But it's not
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that. It's more of like being able to pick up on like even your
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own body, Like, Wow, I noticed that I'm really hunched in these
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environments. I feel really small, Right, So I think embodying the work
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is it? If I may? So, are you saying that that awareness
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that you have that you've developed allows you then to what be more aware,
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be more sensitive, be more vulnerable, and when you're in a relationship with
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a client. First of all, it's made me do my own work.
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Like I have to say, like my training and somatic work. People always
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say, oh, so you have these skills, just to take away the
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whole professional of an air for one second. I think any really good training
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really helps us change as people. And I remember like the third level,
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Like I remember one of the trainers that I was like, we're also emotional.
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She's like, oh, you're in her children are running around the room,
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like I have any adults present. You know, a lot of the
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work is about like working with child state, working with core emotions, working
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with a lot of emotional fragility because we have to practice those interventions on each
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other. And so if we just like the trainings or I would say,
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like learning certain skills with the right kind of obviously trainers that are honest and
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trusting and are secure enough for us to do the work, I think like
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knowing what I've done is that it's made me. It's helped me like know
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my own inner world better. I think I might have shared this, but
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I might sound redundant. But I remember telling one of my trainers, I
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was like, what, like I thought this training would just make me like
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smarter and like more skilled and just have all these like fancy interventions, Like
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you're making me look inside of myself. It's really uncomfortable, like I'm seeing
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a whole new layer of anxiety. And she like chuckled with like a wise
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chuckle. She's like, listen, like life, sometimes getting to know yourself
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more, or getting to know yourself on an even deeper level, is the
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work. It's not that you're like patching things up and suddenly everything's good and
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now you're an expert. It's just being able to actually go a little deeper
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and tolerate and be with all of that which is within you and almost like
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getting to develop relationships with your own internal emotional experiences, memories, beliefs.
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So was I just have to say it was like a very uncomfortable journey,
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and just that like doing the trainings, it's not like it's right, very
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r it's very fragile. At the same time, it's almost like like mothering
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my own self or like embodying more of my own emotional world, which then
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I think translates into having less of a reaction to other people very intense emotions,
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so you don't think about it so much. But I think that's what
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happens where there's more of like capacity to notice, Okay, that person is
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having this. Okay, my internal world isn't as reactive because it's more like
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settled because I'm kind of more whole. Actually not that I'm perfect, but
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I'm more like integrated as a human, and so I can notice you and
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help you even do that Does that making sense? It does? It does?
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So, Yeah, I love what you're saying, and I really can
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relate to what you said about you know, Oh my god, this is
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you're asking me to look inside myself, and it's why is that challenging for
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a lot of us, Not a lot of therapists, It is why a
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lot of people, of course, because we come into this field because we
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want to help people. No one ever said you're coming into this field to
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look at yourself in the mirror, not just in the mirror, but with
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a magnifying glass, and to look at your own relationships and your strengths and
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the patterns that you're repeating or the patterns that you're not doing and who you
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are. And then suddenly, if we're real right people, some people don't
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do the real work, and we're not talking to those people because I know,
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you attract people who are like very authentic. But then when we commit
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to doing really meaningful work, what happens is that our own selves are like,
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hello, what about me? You're helping all these people, what about
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me. I'm angry, I'm annoyed, I'm acting out in this way.
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I've had so many therapists come to me for therapy and sometimes they have this
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shame. I'm like, no, no, no, you're leaving shame at
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the door because you are so bold and you are so honest to say,
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hey, I actually get a seat in this arena of counseling and support.
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So I think that we don't realize what we're signing up for really unconsciously,
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it's like can I heal myself? Consciously? It's like no, no,
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I'm here to help the community, not the me and the inner community.
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You know, people people feel that right, clients feel that field you're talking
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about here is authenticity is a vulnerability that oftentimes when you know anyone experiences,
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we're like, wow, it gives us an invitation in a sense to one
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to begin to look inside and two to begin to trust. That's that's huge,
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that's so powerful. Yeah, I think it's the trust. I think
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back to what we're saying about coming home to our bodies. I think that
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the trust, and I think the trust is one of the biggest pieces.
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And that's why I think the relational element of I think about the people who
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have been valuable in value people in my own story of evolving as a person
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and as a professional, and there have been people that really helped me and
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then I outgrow them or it wasn't the right fetch. Just have to say
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that because at different phases of life we might need different things. But that
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capacity of like being present, being vulnerable, but being very boundaried and clear
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right, because sometimes people say like, oh, you're into somatic or oh
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you're so present with your clients, So that doesn't mean or you're so humane,
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doesn't mean you have no boundaries. Your boundaries got weaker. I'm like,
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the opposite, boundaries are clearer. If I notice you engaging in a
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certain way or trying to kind of like divert me here because it got too
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real, I'll just be like I just saw wait you to Yeah, something's
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happening in here, that it's something feeling comfortable about being in here. Okay,
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we can tone it down. But it's not that we're more weary,
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if anything, or it's not that we're more wobbly if anything. We're clear.
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But the trust piece, I would say is foundational in terms of like
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when we help people, let's say, come back home to their own selves,
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it's I'm not frightened by your symptoms. I'm not. You're because you
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experienced whatever you experienced. Your body often is having some kind of fear reaction,
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which, FYI, which I find helps clients a lot, is the
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fear is in response to something that was frightening and terrifying in the past,
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right, and it's educating and trauma. What happens is that the past gets
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collapsed with the present, So the body is experiencing those alarm bells of danger,
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danger, danger, right again and again and again, and good healing
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work is actually helping like this was the past where it was dangerous and you
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probably didn't have anyone, you couldn't be in connection with anyone on yourself,
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and here we're getting back in touch with that being that felt danger. Danger.
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We're taking a sliver of it, and I would love to be in
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connection with you or with that experience. And I'm not terrified. It's not
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my terror. I know this. This is the face of trauma or this
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is right the stamp of fear or whatever it is. And then that therapist
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trust or the energy in the room is can like. I've supported clients going
23:00
through flashbacks or panic and I'm like, and your mind and body can tolerate
23:04
discomfort. Discomfort does not equal danger. A panic or a flashback is not
23:11
going to destroy you, obviously over good work, and as we do good
23:15
healing work, we want to lessen the intensity of it and the frequency of
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it. But some of it is just like if I need to scream,
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or if I need to shake, or if I'm panicking, the therapist is
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It's like the part of it is a therapist tolerating the intensity of it and
23:29
trusting over time. Okay, I think that's going to lessen. But I'm
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meeting you here and then here's how we're going to help you. When did
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you realize the significance and importance of this concept of coming home to our bodies?
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When I realized that I was a rock star therapist. And I noticed
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that there were times that I had a hard time being present in my own
23:53
relationships, and I had I would host a lot of just going personally.
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I would a lot of like weekends, I had a lot of friends,
24:03
and I'd be like spending time with my son. And I noticed, like
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I'm so incredibly present with clients where I'm so incredibly present at presentations, and
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when it's coming time to some of my personal relationships, I'm not one hundred
24:18
percent there. And so I was there people found me Like I remember people
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telling me like I love your energy, and I remember thinking like really,
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because it's not all of it, you know, And so I was like
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life is a matter of well, back to the life of a therapist.
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Right for me, it was like what does it mean to be a therapist?
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Like it's not a matter of what we do, it's who I am.
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I want to be. I want to be more, be more with
24:42
the people, with myself and with the people that matter. And so I
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think like realizing being more present, and what I realized was like I wanted
24:52
to let go of some of the noise or the part of me that felt
24:55
like I needed to always so honestly, like as I became more present,
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or as I committed to being more present, I then had to make some
25:03
shifts in my life, which it's a daily practice of presence, but some
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shifts really allowed me then to be more present, and that's what I've committed
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more to. Like I'll notice that my child will share more with me,
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or I'll notice certain people will say that they feel more connected, and I
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know what it is. You know, but what kind of shifts you're talking
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about that did you have to make? Okay, so to be to notice
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the amount of time that's realistic for certain tasks to take. So I wasn't
25:36
being realistic of how long, how much time and energy certain tasks would take,
25:40
and I would just say yes to things because I was afraid of not
25:44
having everything that I thought I needed. Right, So it was like I
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need a lot of people of ideas of this that the other, and filling
25:52
up all my time versus like the present with an experience or with people,
25:56
and that's actually more nourishing. So I had to be more intentional with my
26:02
time. Notice the part of me that felt like I want to put myself
26:06
in seven places at once, I had to let go of some commitments or
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relationships that were in moving in the similar direction as me. That was the
26:15
hardest part. I think presence is also like it's hard to sit with people's
26:21
disappointment and frustration, but then it's also like remarrying myself. And I think
26:27
the other piece is like honestly doing a deeper layer of my own work,
26:33
working with a consultant, working with a therapist that can take me deeper.
26:38
So it wasn't like going to a new territory. It was like helping me
26:44
be present with what is because my own experience with a lot of therapists was
26:48
like I want to build, I want to do like I have a group
26:52
practice, I'm in contract with a book with a new rbinger. I created
26:55
my course that's approved for CEUs, and then I had a part of me
27:00
that and then someone was like, do you want to open more locations?
27:02
And I was like, no, I want to be. I want to
27:04
be. I want to be with what I built, but more than that,
27:10
I want to be with me. I want to be with esther right,
27:15
And then I want to be with the people that are in my life.
27:19
When you consult or or talk with other therapists and even people you're working
27:26
with. What are you noticing about this particular topic. Is this something that
27:36
a lot of therapists and maybe it's more indicative of newer therapists, but are
27:40
you noticing that a lot of therapists are surprised at how important this particular topic
27:45
is or are you finding that more therapists, just as you talked about before,
27:52
rushing from one intervention and one training and workshop and really feeling that's that's
27:57
so important. Yeah, I think I think it's people who I think some
28:07
people are aware of it. It's almost like, you know how when we
28:11
talk about in our lives, in our personal professional lives, some people speak
28:14
the same language as us, and some people speak a different language. So
28:18
I think some people speak a similar language or they or their interest is piauked
28:22
when they notice someone. It's not even the conversation, it's an energy that
28:26
they might pick up on. Like I remember somebody wants telling me, like,
28:30
what's the intervention you have? And I was like, I don't think
28:32
it's one. I think it's part of what I've incorporated. I'm happy to
28:34
share with you, like my thoughts and what I practice and who I follow.
28:41
But and I remember once having like a mentor I looked up to,
28:44
and I remember there was something about her energy that was so easy but also
28:48
so real, and I just had a sense that she I know this might
28:51
be and it was true. Later on I learned, but like she had
28:53
been through a lot of life and was just she just had this like energy
28:59
to her of like a strength. Then it's funny because she was like a
29:02
tiny little lady. But I think I do think that some people like I
29:04
do notice and I feel gifted because I was one of those people. I
29:08
think like rushing until I kind of settled or it takes time to settle and
29:12
to know our own, our own groundedness. But I think some people are
29:17
too busy. Okay, everyone is seeking. I think we're all seeking in
29:21
different kind of ways. Okay, whatever we're seekers for, we're all seeking
29:26
for something and for a sense of meaning. But I think the seekers of
29:29
therapists some are looking for like like diplomas or statuses, or they're curious about
29:36
something but they might not know where it's going to bring them to. So
29:40
some are looking for trainings. I think some I think the ones who are
29:45
I just did a masterclass on this about the difference between good therapists to great
29:49
therapists, and I mentioned Scott Miller because he does a research study. I'm
29:53
going to connect it in one second. He does a research study on rock
29:57
star therapists. Like therapists to have like sixty five to eighty five percent higher
30:03
retention rate than other ones are the ones who ask for a meaningful feedback and
30:07
who check in on how our client's experiences are. And that doesn't mean the
30:11
feedback is always good, but they can tolerate negative feedback and say, hey,
30:15
buddy or hey, I want to check it on how this is going
30:17
for you. And there's that capacity to get honest feedback, listen to it,
30:22
get advanced consultation, shift the way that they're doing something. So I
30:26
think those people that have more real humility, I would say, and then
30:30
an inner confidence, which I know some people have more innately and some have
30:33
to build over time. I think those are more tuned because if they hear
30:37
like some of the arpests I work with when they tell me, hey,
30:41
esther like clients are dropping off after the fourth or fifth session, what's going
30:44
on? And I'm like, are you open to sharing? With me,
30:47
like what might be going on. Usually there's some kind of skill or a
30:49
lack of matching, or a lack of presence or a leadership of the session
30:53
of here is I'm going to take you. So I think those who are
30:56
able to be humble and reflective are the ones who can lean into this a
31:00
bit more awesome sir, you are so friggin inspiring, man, It's it's
31:08
kind of crazy. Look, what's the best way for people to get in
31:11
contact with you? They could google me. I actually have a new platform
31:15
and I have a lot of free tools. It's for this new website I
31:18
created called Trauma Therapists do CO. Trauma therapists like with s plural Trauma Therapists
31:25
do CO, and I have a trauma training that I run twice a year.
31:32
Honestly, it's more of a community. I remember feeling so lonely and
31:36
so exhausted and trying to be traffic to get them for my son and getting
31:40
all these expert consultations. So I created like an online community for trauma therapists
31:45
or therapists. I want to be trauma unformed where you get support and really
31:48
embody the skills. So beware this is about helping you change and embody the
31:52
skills so you can do for your clients, because people are like, I
31:56
came here for my clients, but it changed me, and I'm like,
31:57
that's my goal. Yeah, where they could find. We have a counseling
32:01
practice across New York and our physical location is in Long Island and that's Integrative
32:07
psych dot CEO. I love these conversations. Yeah, I do too.
32:14
Well. We'll have both of those linked up here at the show notes page
32:17
at the Trauma Tipist podcast dot com. Look you welcome back anytime. Just
32:22
love uh what you're about in your willingness to share you and I'm hoping that
32:31
this is what this podcast is about. Always great talking to you. I
32:36
appreciate it. We'll be in touch. Yes, thank you, all right,
32:38
take care all right esther, damn you amazing. Hello, I'm going
32:45
for fucking hell, that's why. And I'm just like, yes, that's
32:55
it. I mean, that's your willingness to show up up is that's that's
33:02
amazing. Really it is. Thank you. I hope it doesn't sound like
33:07
a therapy session, but I try to me authentic because I want people to
33:09
feel like it's real and you know. That's what my podcast is all about.
33:15
And I love having you on here, so you're welcome back anytime.
33:17
I'm gonna come again. I've had people thank me so much for the last
33:21
one by Awake because like I answered your question and you pushed me again.
33:24
Yeah. Yeah, I'm grateful for you. That's awesome. Well, we'll
33:28
have this linked up in a couple of months. I'll let you know what
33:30
it does. I'm so excited. Thank you so much. Guy. All
33:35
Right, have an awesome New Year.