Latest / After Maghrib 🌙 / Religious Trauma in Islam (Ft Zoha Hemraj)

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Religious Trauma in Islam (Ft Zoha Hemraj) · After Maghrib 🌙

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  All the block on the shed online.
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  The regimes melodic, minor him respected by the sisters.
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  Welcome, back to the after Margaret podcast, hope you're
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  having a fantastic week is absolutely scorching in London
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  this week. So we are truly truly enjoying
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  the summer Vibes. I'm the line, I hope you guys
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  are as well. This week, we've got a really
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  interesting discussion to have, and that is talking about
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  religious trauma. It's a phenomenon, which we're
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  hearing more and more about. And if you don't know what it
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  is, this is your chance to get a bit of a understanding.
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  As to what that concept actually means, does it exist?
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  Is it something which is exclusive to the Muslim
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  Community? Or maybe not.
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  And if it's something that we've been affected by, maybe our own
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  lives are not in our youth and our childhood, or even maybe in
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  our later years. But before we get into that, and
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  before we introduce our special guest, it's time to reduce the
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  special co-host that I need some.
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  I think alaikum, salaam, I didn't work.
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  I'm the law here and allow good. Good enjoying the weather.
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  I am making the most bracing, the Rays of the sunshine and
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  making the most of the Mindy. Said you're pretty under Shadow
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  seal the north stuff, you bring the light coming energy.
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  This is a really interesting topic.
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  It says it is and you know when we knew what will I knew that
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  we're gonna have this conversation?
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  You know, had About two days ago I gave myself some flashbacks to
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  try and see if I have possibly facing a religious trauma but
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  I'll save it for the conversation.
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  Yeah. It's time to introduce the
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  guests. Absolutely and we welcome sister
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  Zohar Hemorrhage. Some I left my sister and they
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  can Cinemark Thule. How you doing?
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  I'm the LOL. Good.
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  Joined us all the way from Dubai, studying in the UK.
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  For those who don't know, you can tell us maybe a bit about
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  yourself and your background, maybe.
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  So my name is Mohammad Hemorrhage and I am currently
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  studying optometry in Cardiff University.
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  St. And yeah, it is really an honor
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  to be here. Yeah.
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  It's very nice. Obviously you reached out to us
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  and you also have your own podcast browser banter which is
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  absolutely incredible hosted. By yourself another sister.
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  Yes, it's with my friends. Fantastic.
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  Yeah. What, what kind of interests
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  you? And what, what in the community
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  engages you? I mean, obviously for those who
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  don't know, of course you've also recently won a youth
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  leadership award from while Federation out there.
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  The xcode and London, and of course you're involved.
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  A lot of Youth Work, what do you find?
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  Interesting, what kind of makes you, you know, get involved.
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  So I guess one of the motors from my life is to make a
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  difference, wherever I go or with whatever I can do.
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  Yeah. And so I try to make a
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  difference with let's say first, it's important to identify.
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  Okay, what is a community need as an example?
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  And then to be like, okay, fine, what are the solutions are what
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  are what are the steps that have been taken to fulfill that need?
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  If not, then what can we do instead of just sit and be like,
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  oh yeah, you know. No, we have these problems, all
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  very bad inshallah, they're cured because yes, inshallah,
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  you know, you should be identifying are acknowledging
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  that you have that problem, but don't just stop there or many a
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  times like as an example when we say, yeah, you know, it's Nam is
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  very mixed with culture these days.
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  It's always, it always just remains a talk level that.
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  Oh, that's very bad. That's right.
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  What are you doing to contribute towards it?
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  So those are the points. Let's say, you know how they say
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  in medical terms, you press the nerve that hurts the most.
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  Those are the nerves. I like to catch the okay fine.
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  These are the problems. Were having, how can we solve
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  them? I'm Della.
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  So I really good lot to talk about.
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  And obviously, we've also got so much to Bar as always behind the
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  camera hiding say I'm the liar you guys.
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  Yeah, all good. All good.
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  Enjoying the weather for discussion is very hot.
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  Absolutely. Then how we're going to go
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  through the whole podcast. Shaaka so early, we're working
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  kind of begin on this. I think before we even, you
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  know, dive into this, I think a topic that's going to interest
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  everyone's is in a shallow, we can only engage even after the
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  podcast beyond the comment section, wherever everyone's
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  listening. Can you just give me?
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  So I can understand religious trauma a little better.
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  So, like a small summary maybe. Yeah.
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  So it's actually important to start by defining the term
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  because even like the first time I introduced it to our spoke
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  about it with my parents, they were like wait what do you mean?
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  Religiosity can result in trauma.
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  How is that possible? It's like a juxtaposition of
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  words. So, religion is so, really
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  religious drama. Let's say is basically a
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  misinterpretation of religious values, that's can result in
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  different levels of trauma. So now people might think listen
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  to the word trauma and be like, whoa, you know, like it's not,
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  it's not as a PTSD or some exactly.
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  So it's not as exaggerated as we're, but to be honest is
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  different levels of trauma. You know, it starts with a
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  classical conditioning of someone not wanting to go
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  towards an action. To let's say that.
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  Veer level of someone having medical conditions, when exposed
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  to a certain theme. So, there's different levels and
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  it's important. Now more than any other time or
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  more than anything, because people are starting to
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  appreciate and notice these things, more nowadays is to
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  identify the okay, fine. If someone does have a religious
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  drama, it should stop right there instead of it passing On
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  to the Next Generation. Not like, if I've experienced
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  this, okay? You need to experience it as
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  well, and we have to make clear as well.
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  It's not a demonization of Religion in any way.
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  So by by no means that, although we interested in demonizing
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  religion or making our religious teachers or our religious
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  centers, or religious communities, those, which are
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  villains or those, which are wrong in any way more.
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  It's perhaps a case of understanding contemporary
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  practices of Islam and maybe understanding ways to improve
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  them, of course, because of many of us have grown up in different
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  Societies, in different, cultures are level of practice
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  and our experience of practicing Islam has varied in many cases.
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  The approach we've taken on studying religious traumas is
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  incredibly important. Obviously, that's kind of, maybe
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  a disclaimer for us to step forward at the beginning of the
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  conversation. Some people talk about religious
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  Trauma from to be really blunt the Christian angle, because
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  Christianity and religious trauma.
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  There's so much content online about it.
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  But also, you hear a lot of the time the term spiritual trauma.
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  Yeah. I know said before the podcast,
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  we should mention that. Yeah, why?
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  So that's because interestingly, You know, the episode, that's
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  all we've done an episode about religious drama on browser
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  bunter as well and initially, the title was spiritual trauma
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  until it came to my attention. That is it really possible for
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  spirituality to result in trauma, and what is the
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  difference between spirituality and religious City?
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  So essentially, the dean that came down on the religion of the
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  message, basically that came down was one and then it was
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  people that separated and made their own, like, you know, their
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  own different groups and their own You know on it or they
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  built, they took different different parts of it.
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  As there's an eye on the Quran. Also that says that, you know,
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  do you leave the rest of the book and only takes one and take
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  what interests you? So, anyways, the different
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  religions different people took different ideologies from it,
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  and then the way they interpreted that message results
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  in the trauma. Again, as there's another Ayah,
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  in the Quran that says that whatever prayer that comes to
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  you is from Allah, but whatever bad that comes to you, it is
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  from your own hands, right? So, these things are our own
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  doings. It.
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  And essentially, it is religious, or let's say
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  religious meant to misinterpretations that can
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  result in trauma spirituality spiritual.
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  That's the one essential message that came down is the Hub and
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  the truth can never really result in trauma, if that makes
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  sense. So, does make sense because the
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  truth is the truth at the end of the day?
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  Yeah, I think is how we, you know, share the chair.
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  You know what's? Larger was her arm because I
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  think when it comes to religious trauma.
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  Yeah, the way I've understood it.
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  If I can be blunt about it is, for example, you get to a stage
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  where, you know, what stop telling me what to do or for
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  example, okay? I know this is, for example,
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  this is what's expected of me. This is what's wajib of me, for
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  example, I don't want to do it. Yeah, you know, Only God can
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  judge me. Yeah, that sort of feeling that
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  people have to reach the religious trauma.
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  It's essentially a rebellion that starts, but you know,
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  what's now, you're telling me, I will purposely not To do it.
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  You're telling me to come sit inside, mosque.
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  I will purposely stand outside just to annoy you basically.
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  Yeah, so yeah. So there's this like tons and
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  tons of examples that we have with this regard as well, and
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  this probably weighs to break it down as well.
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  So, when we, of course, understand that, like, from a
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  less exclude Islam. Yeah.
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  For a sec. Like, if we talk about
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  Christianity and I mentioned earlier, but Like obviously the
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  Christian world right now faces, its own issues.
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  Yeah. And for those of kind of studied
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  it, the establishment of Christianity is so hell-bent on
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  keeping its and presuming this audience that a lot of the time
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  they'll go to any extreme or any, any kind of position to
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  keep the audience and especially to keep you.
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  All right. So for example, let's talk about
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  missionaries. You see a lot of cases, where,
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  for example, religious trauma occurs when when preachers Azure
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  kind of had a missionary churches, will Guilt Trip their
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  own followers by saying that if you don't do this, God's going
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  to punish you. Or if you don't do this, you're
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  not getting God's message out there.
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  Or for example, if you don't give a pot of your allowance
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  back to the church, God will punish you, and people won't get
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  fed and won't drink. Now, for example, a lot of these
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  messages and first phrases could also be apply to slam, mcteer's?
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  Yes, you could talk about homes and you could talk about your
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  wives your butt and your talk about doing that one does.
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  Is and apply it in the same way. But of course, there's there's
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  nuances that, as Muslims, both as Community leaders and
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  community members, we've got to practice, but I think
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  Christianity is a really interesting place because to
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  begin because there's so many lessons that can be learned and
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  obviously Islam is on the rise in terms of numbers and terms of
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  popularity and and whatnot. But yeah, maybe that's something
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  we can, we can approach and think about of course there's
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  actually a relation between I was studying this.
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  So there's a there's a Las offical concept by selfridges.
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  It's called the pandemonium model.
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  So this model basically, it talks about I'm sure you must
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  have heard about the conflicts between the church and
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  religiosity back in the day and so that resulted in, so anything
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  and everything that was unknown to them, that they would call
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  that thing. A demon as an example.
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  When you learn about Vision Sciences, they have many, let's
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  say, drawings of the brain and the of the, of the eye.
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  And then if they don't understand what certain neurons
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  are or the names, Neurons are what they're doing.
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  They just draw pictures of demons in that area and say,
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  okay, this is unknown. So we're just going to call this
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  area the demon. So the unknown was called the
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  demon, right now many a times. The same concept comes to us
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  over here. That haven't, you heard this
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  before? Let's say many times were told
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  not to play with a scissor, why? Because she had land sits on the
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  scissor or like, let's say, kids are told that make sure you fold
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  the Masala or the like the pyramid, basically, when you
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  signed up, why? Otherwise shaitaan's going to
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  pray on it. So by all means Bismillah, you
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  should leave it. Open in that.
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  If that's the case. But you know the concept is of
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  the shaitaan and the demon was is even passed down to Islam,
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  you know, so many times when and the Nia the the intention is all
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  good, you know, the parents was probably trying to teach the
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  child discipline, right? But they didn't know what reason
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  to give so they're like, don't make sure that you fold it.
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  Otherwise she's always been a place across.
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  Do you have children my job? I know Celica.
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  Myself. So how did the love?
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  We've got a few children between us and maybe one thing, say
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  those to your children, a lot older than mine, but maybe one
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  thing we've maybe learned of last few years is that it's a
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  lot easier said than done. Yeah.
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  Especially for me myself. So it's very easy for me in my
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  younger years, to maybe criticize my parents or my, our
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  elders in our community to say, oh, we were told do this and
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  don't do this and without reasoning without context, I
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  think, as we've gotten older, maybe it's something.
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  We've learned that experiences wisdom.
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  Yeah. At the end of the day, like you
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  said, the Nia is safiya. Yeah.
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  We've got a good intention in a pure intention and it's hard for
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  youth to to bridge the gap between what I'm being told on
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  why I'm being told to do it. Yeah.
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  And it's the parents job in many times to actually do the that
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  feeling of the gap for them. And to say, this is why I'm
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  telling you to do it just one time.
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  Did you see when we get into a specially kids?
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  They always have, like, have always liked curious, and they
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  have questions. Yeah.
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  And then sometimes I think that's the two.
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  Young for you to tell them. For example, the concept of
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  hell, I actually believe sometimes the too young, you can
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  tell them that this is right and wrong.
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  For example, like, my daughter was asked me just turning six
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  very soon and was literally the other day.
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  Why do I have to do a specific thing?
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  Yeah. And this was about covering up
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  by. Yeah, we were on holiday and you
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  know I didn't want to tell her if you don't.
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  This is what this is. This is what the result is
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  because no more. I thought that's not the
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  approach. Take here a number two, she's
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  too young but Understand though she might see as you know, that
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  sounds a bit evil. Yeah.
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  Which technically it isn't. So I just told her, you know,
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  when you do this, number one she saw on the sons who Allah ya and
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  a very basic level. So I told her like the more you
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  listen, the more rewards, you start to accumulate.
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  Yeah. And then you reap them as you
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  grow older. So, this is like, sort of the
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  idea of giving and at least of the question that you have, you
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  know, for example, let's say their kids.
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  Now, if I tell them, you know, you end up in hell if you don't
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  do. And think yeah, they're going to
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  grow up thinking my God is evil. Yeah, sorry to use this word
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  like the sickest probably won't understand.
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  Yeah. And indirectly traumatize the
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  mindset and think about how Allah subhanaw taala is.
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  Yeah. So as an example like you know,
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  we were talking about the whole thing of the action and the
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  consequence I think so Shake. Josh money, very beautiful
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  images. It's in his book about the
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  commentary on comes out Somali and he says that the first line
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  Allah he loved to, I definitely AA buttock, don't don't give you
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  no consequence. He's like as an example.
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  If your one strand is showing one hair is out.
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  Hello, CEO. You know, you're going to be
• 14:18
  hunger, the day of judgment. This is a common punishment and
• 14:20
  that you going to be hung with your hair.
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  I'll put, yes. I don't listen to music.
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  They will melt. And I think that's the one
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  another. We like, we know this.
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  It's like Classics. But you know imagine a little
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  child let's say six year old it's listening to this concept
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  in her mind. It's this God of Wrath and he's
• 14:39
  waiting with iron rods in like you know a ropes and stuff.
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  So interestingly there was a course that I recently attended
• 14:46
  on my thigh area and that's course was teaching, or they
• 14:50
  spoke about this three step methodology as to.
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  How can you get a child to do an action or perform something
• 14:55
  without forcing them? So even if you're not there
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  tomorrow they won't be like okay fine you know, like thank God,
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  my parents is not there, I don't need to do it.
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  So the three-step method that was mentioned was number one
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  teach, teach them. Give them the knowledge, doesn't
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  that? Look, these are the advantages
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  and these are the disadvantages. Messages.
• 15:13
  Instead of telling them that look, you need to do what we
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  like this. What can you see?
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  Reach over here? This is this.
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  Now, go do it. Tell them that.
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  Look, if you put water from this specific area, to this specific
• 15:22
  area, it's causes the nerves over here to basically like the
• 15:25
  cold water, causes the nerves to awaken and it wakes, you up as
• 15:29
  well. Making you ready for the solid
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  that you're about to pray. So number one is education or
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  knowledge, give them the knowledge.
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  Number two is automatically, after that knowledge will follow
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  the love for that knowledge. So they'll once to let's say as
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  an example, The husseini, after you tell them or explain to them
• 15:45
  the advantages. You're gonna have to expect a
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  lot of questions. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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  It comes with his, with his challenges as well.
• 15:58
  But then again, what you're thinking is that you're raising
• 16:00
  a generation was not, you know, you're you're raising your kids
• 16:04
  and then you can let go of them knowing that tomorrow I will not
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  have to worry that. Oh no I'm not there.
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  I have sent my child to study. Let's say abroad we can sort of
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  trust and Now that you've given them the correct exacting
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  environmental. Understanding of Faith.
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  Yeah, exactly. And then, the last step is
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  basically after love, will follow the action.
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  So that's knowledge. Love, and then the action, I
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  think there's understand the last one.
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  So I'll has something, which we can.
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  We can attempt to do for 80 90 years in our life, shall Allah,
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  gives us long lives. But even at that, end point, you
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  still may not have grasped the concept of a deity and Allah
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  subhanaw taala. And all of all of the, the
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  attributes that we see manifesting in the day, And the
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  days we live in and the days we walk on this Earth and then at
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  the point where we're ready to leave this world, we've still
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  not kind of grasp the concept of it.
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  It's important for us to understand that basically as
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  youth Understanding God is not an easy thing.
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  Even as parents teaching what God is or as teachers or
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  whatever, it's not an easy thing to express.
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  It's a process which takes decades in many cases.
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  But I think there has to be like a balance in giving kind of
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  giving slack. Cutting them some slack in terms
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  of understanding. Now when we get to a later age,
• 17:19
  yeah, maybe they didn't mean the wrong thing, or maybe it wasn't
• 17:22
  the right approach, but maybe they meant well, I think in
• 17:25
  probably earlier Generations are meant for many of our LGBT.
• 17:27
  Elders. It probably worked but we live
• 17:29
  in a day and age. Now where Society is built on
• 17:33
  this he is a alternative. Yeah there's a lot of
• 17:36
  sensitivities that's be really honest in this day and age.
• 17:39
  There's a lot of sense to people get offended very easily.
• 17:41
  Yeah. And this day and age and to be
• 17:43
  honest sometimes it's it's trivial but also sometimes
• 17:46
  people generally have a right to feel offended and and they have
• 17:49
  a right to just this. So because of that people Now
• 17:52
  understand the introspect and they look back at their younger
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  years. I think why was I told Just I'll
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  give an example. Yeah said I'll you know I've
• 18:00
  talked about this in the past but you know for example when I
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  was young I remember in my dresser we had the best teachers
• 18:07
  and we had like some teachers may be were really good,
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  intention had very good intentions but maybe not the
• 18:13
  best practices. For example, we talked to do
• 18:15
  such that and I remember a specific teacher who would, who
• 18:18
  would like hit us on our feet. If our toes were not touching
• 18:21
  the floor and these kind of things.
• 18:23
  Yeah. Are normal or where?
• 18:25
  Normal back in the day. Yeah.
• 18:26
  And that Tamela blessing, may not remember it, many years
• 18:29
  later but to the students of course it's embedded in our
• 18:33
  memory and many times. If you take in a good way or
• 18:36
  maybe not, maybe not a good way. But if you take it in in a
• 18:39
  forgiving way, you understand to move on and you'll stand, maybe
• 18:42
  he made the right thing. Yeah.
• 18:43
  But I think we have to take it with a pinch of salt, of course,
• 18:48
  because it can, it can be very traumatic in many cases, like,
• 18:52
  you do. Get some really messed up abuse
• 18:54
  of power. Yeah.
• 18:55
  You know, like I was listening to something today.
• 18:57
  It was like, you could have trauma from work, could have
• 19:01
  trauma and family life, but religious trauma is completely
• 19:05
  different because religion is your identity know, like if your
• 19:09
  boss tells you you failed. Yeah, you're going to be upset.
• 19:13
  That's not going to the world. You can leave your job will go.
• 19:14
  No. Yeah.
• 19:16
  If someone tells you you God's God's going to make you be
• 19:20
  punished and got you felt how that's done finished.
• 19:22
  You felt God. I felt God.
• 19:24
  What do I do now? Yeah.
• 19:25
  Like what's the point of my existence, right?
• 19:27
  Exactly. So it's the adding another layer
• 19:29
  of complexity to your whole identity is yams with the
• 19:32
  religion, and it's something you have to take very carefully.
• 19:35
  Of course because like they say, the religion is a way of life.
• 19:37
  Yeah, right. So many of the comments, like
• 19:39
  you were mentioning as an example, a few of them that I've
• 19:42
  heard. Very, very comedy is, let's say
• 19:46
  if there's a sister and her hair, you know, she's putting
• 19:48
  her hair is showing easily. Someone will be like, why are
• 19:52
  you even wearing the hijab? You know, like take it off if
• 19:54
  this one Shakeology It's a Q-tip, but do not.
• 19:59
  Do you know if you don't mind me asking because I'm sure we will
• 20:01
  never get. Well, guys, that's all I have to
• 20:04
  make that. Clear because, in the past, when
• 20:05
  we spoke about women will live album, God is our witness.
• 20:07
  We don't mean anything bad, and we love the effort and Jihad
• 20:13
  that. I was just as do, but how do you
• 20:16
  approach that? So, for example, yeah, if I'm a
• 20:18
  father and I have a daughter. Yeah.
• 20:19
  And my daughters are tell her again and again, and again and
• 20:22
  again. 10 15, 20 years. Yeah.
• 20:25
  And eventually obviously anger or Or impatience gets the better
• 20:28
  of someone and they say, why are you wearing it for?
• 20:30
  Not going to work properly where you work?
• 20:32
  Yeah Point. Yeah.
• 20:33
  How does one approach that? It's in that specific case on
• 20:36
  hijab because I'm sure a lot of sisters stories that revolve
• 20:40
  around religious trauma. It's made my job so many
• 20:46
  different types of hijab. So just to get your question,
• 20:48
  right? Is it how to approach?
• 20:49
  Let's say, if this young girl, who's not wearing her job
• 20:53
  properly? Or let's say, someone who's made
• 20:54
  this comment towards her from the perspective of someone who's
• 20:57
  And to give the advice. Yeah, instead of impacting them
• 21:00
  as such a way which they may deem to be traumatic.
• 21:03
  How does one approach it in the correct situation.
• 21:05
  So if you see her job not being went warm project.
• 21:08
  How do you then heyy advise and the right way?
• 21:12
  Hmm, this is this is an interesting animal models.
• 21:15
  Yeah, type of support which we are told to do.
• 21:18
  How do you enjoying good? Yeah, on someone.
• 21:20
  So as an example, something that, well, let's say my mom
• 21:24
  really try to encourage when I was growing up is to have Have a
• 21:28
  role model to know like as an example look what and then
• 21:32
  remind them of their own model. That look.
• 21:33
  What do you think this person would ever dress up this way?
• 21:36
  Do you, if you think so? Okay, fine.
• 21:37
  And then ask them, ask give them an opinion as well.
• 21:40
  That you Tommy. You talk to me instead of you do
• 21:42
  this. Like the Matilda sort of
• 21:44
  mindset. You are this.
• 21:45
  You are that know, you know, they will someone to voice.
• 21:47
  And as part of it, exactly. As young as they are, you know,
• 21:51
  the more you give them respect them or, you know, they feel
• 21:53
  respected and they feel like they have a voice.
• 21:55
  So if you like and there's even an Hadith that says that
• 21:59
  whenever you take as a role model, you will be on the day of
• 22:02
  judgment. You will be raised next to that
• 22:04
  person same as in like taking, I don't know.
• 22:08
  Like, there's so many examples. Imagine taking and not like at,
• 22:11
  of course, we should be taking or giving.
• 22:14
  Let's say, give me examples of Role Models such as said, the
• 22:17
  bottom of the serratus and I'm or let's say the same about
• 22:19
  Islam but we should also give them role models of people at
• 22:23
  this day and age who they can relate to, if they have
• 22:26
  questions they can Ask they can write letters, you can write
• 22:28
  emails messages. So, you know, at least they can
• 22:31
  reach out to that person more actively.
• 22:33
  And then, of course, this person that they have now in this day
• 22:35
  and age will link them back eventually to, as long as.
• 22:39
  Yeah, maybe we can apply that to different things.
• 22:42
  Yeah, not just her job, but really many other things.
• 22:44
  I remember when I was young, my my mom used to tell me every
• 22:47
  time I got angry. She said your name is Ahmed, I
• 22:49
  boss and she goes remember before that I busted a salaam
• 22:53
  because you know that's that's my second name.
• 22:56
  So should say remember how he Swallow his anger.
• 22:58
  Yeah and channel his energy. His anger his sin to love and
• 23:03
  into to defense of his family and difference of the Deen of
• 23:06
  Allah. Subhan Allah.
• 23:07
  Yeah and there's probably so many examples that we can apply
• 23:09
  it with a similar context and look at role model.
• 23:12
  Of course that's just I wanted to ask for the podcast I lost
• 23:15
  you you know you have any experience in this field.
• 23:17
  It goes to a religious trauma and you said you did and you
• 23:20
  have some examples and share some of course.
• 23:23
  So all right so I'll start with an example of As drama that I
• 23:28
  experienced. So my mom got me into.
• 23:32
  Let's say public speaking, since a young age, since the age of 16
• 23:36
  years old, and I used to like, you know, deliver lectures, do
• 23:41
  public speaking, but there was just one phase.
• 23:44
  There was a few, let's say, a few good years where I stopped
• 23:46
  public speaking. I became more of like I would
• 23:49
  shy away from even speaking in the public and that's all
• 23:52
  because there was this one day after I delivered a lecture,
• 23:55
  which is approximately when I was 9 to 10 years old, I'm
• 23:58
  talking about Islamic lectures here.
• 23:59
  Yes Shawn. Yeah.
• 24:00
  So I was approximately 99 years old and this anti came up to me
• 24:04
  after one of the lectures and she's like, you know, like that
• 24:07
  was well done. Etc.
• 24:09
  And then she was like, but make sure that you practice what you
• 24:11
  preach because you know what Imam Mahdi will do when he is
• 24:14
  here. I think she said you either my
• 24:15
  Molly Rama did. She's like he will cut off the
• 24:18
  heads of. Whoever does not practice what
• 24:21
  they preach. I imagine this is nine-year-old
• 24:23
  me looking out, but until I was almost about to cause a call, my
• 24:26
  God, my head's gone. His colors.
• 24:28
  Like this is this, I'm not, I'm not public speaking anymore.
• 24:31
  And so even when I wanted to, you know, socialize or talk to
• 24:34
  people about anything, I'd be like, oh my God, oh my God, my
• 24:36
  head like, you know, I think you're fit from the perspective
• 24:39
  of a nine-year-old, could you imagine?
• 24:41
  You're when you're very young, you imagine everything?
• 24:43
  Yeah, exactly. Naturally, when in modulus, you
• 24:46
  know, they speak or they narrate the fella from a minor.
• 24:49
  Or let's say the what willimon Matthew would do when he comes,
• 24:52
  they say that he will come with his sword and he will, you know,
• 24:54
  like kill these people and you will, you know, the blood and
• 24:57
  The way they describe it. That's true.
• 24:59
  You know. We have these carcasses.
• 25:01
  Yeah. Brother.
• 25:03
  I'm Ron. And I said a point was like, you
• 25:06
  know, everyone imagines like the return of my mom and my dad.
• 25:08
  Yeah, I'll apologize. You know, there's gonna be
• 25:10
  fights and wars and everyone's against each other.
• 25:12
  This is so joyous return. We should be happy and no
• 25:15
  preparing for exactly. So, there's this.
• 25:17
  And then again there was once, when on, I sure.
• 25:20
  So my nephews were over and we were, you know, going to
• 25:24
  different channels. And there was this one where
• 25:25
  this mallanna like he was It was the like using basically
• 25:30
  narrating the story of what happened after and he was like,
• 25:32
  he was screaming and shouting like, you know, there was, there
• 25:34
  was so much going on at these little kids, they were looking
• 25:37
  at, you know, the TV and they're like, whoa!
• 25:39
  What. Yeah, so they're like, what is
• 25:41
  he saying? Like one of them was like, he
• 25:43
  left the room is like, what is this?
• 25:44
  This is scary. What's wrong with this man is
• 25:46
  what kiosk then we change the other channel and it came to,
• 25:50
  I'm sure you must have heard of heard of share ideas opinion.
• 25:55
  Yeah, so his lectures and the He was like, you know, that the way
• 25:59
  he was narrating and the way he was delivering, it was so
• 26:02
  beautiful. They actually wanted to come sit
• 26:04
  and listen to what he was saying, yes.
• 26:06
  So now imagine the difference, the same kids, go to different
• 26:09
  modulus the same. Like, what?
• 26:11
  It's? It's commonsensical they.
• 26:13
  Well, they both have the same message.
• 26:14
  Exactly how they give that message.
• 26:16
  Yes. Now, people become defensive at
• 26:17
  times they're like, no, it's the Josh, you know, like you should
• 26:20
  but think of it practically, you know, what are you passing on?
• 26:24
  Do you really want yourself to just say a few words and people
• 26:26
  are like what La Guerre of the membrane it's gone finish or
• 26:30
  people to take actual lessons that yes, okay, this happened
• 26:33
  Marcia, it's not only about crying but it's about taking
• 26:36
  lessons from each and every individual support I think as
• 26:40
  well to understand that. Like the something I've been
• 26:44
  thinking about recently, and that's the concept of human
• 26:48
  values which are not solely taught through religion that
• 26:53
  humans should pass on from parent to child.
• 26:56
  Now, stay with me this because I myself.
• 26:58
  Am I sound like I'm offering? I usually do but, but basically,
• 27:02
  I'll tell you what, I mean by this.
• 27:03
  Well it's a wisdom. There's no not at all.
• 27:05
  There's there's values which Islam teaches, which are not
• 27:08
  slowly Islamic, but they are good.
• 27:11
  Moral human values, Patients about even for example, social
• 27:15
  hijab, and modesty and whatnot. Now I have this belief that this
• 27:21
  is my own opinion. I think a parent has two
• 27:23
  responsibilities. If we're not even talking about
• 27:26
  slam, we talk about just the job of a human and it's child.
• 27:29
  Yeah. The first responsibility is to
• 27:31
  provide it with safety and protection.
• 27:35
  I mean, shelter over its head food on the table and so on
• 27:38
  protection, the second is to teach it good human more.
• 27:43
  Al's. Now, for example, I was at the
• 27:46
  hospital, the other day and my wife I was with my wife and
• 27:50
  there was a male doctor and obviously being a guy and
• 27:53
  there's a male doctor, my wife is here, there's a sense of
• 27:56
  protectionism you feel as a guy defense mode and whatnot.
• 28:00
  Okay. Leader now I noticed that Doctor
• 28:05
  Who's definitely not Muslim. Yeah, had a fantastic approach
• 28:08
  to his social hijab. It didn't make eye contact my
• 28:10
  wife. He looked at me if you're
• 28:11
  speaking to my wife who look down and some might feel like
• 28:14
  that's a bit weird, but as a husband, and as a Muslim male, I
• 28:17
  appreciated that I really really appreciated that and when I
• 28:20
  left, I told my wife, I said that's exactly what I mean.
• 28:22
  You do not have to be a Muslim to know basic morals but it's
• 28:26
  slamming forces and perfect those morals.
• 28:29
  So the fine tuning is done with religion.
• 28:32
  Yeah. Now I'm getting to, this is
• 28:34
  examples should be led by Muslims, exactly.
• 28:38
  We should be the, you know, it's very easy in many cases to go to
• 28:41
  a clinic and you see mr. Khan who 60 years old and he's
• 28:44
  like the weirdest guy and young sister and her job and you get
• 28:48
  me. I'm not gonna go into too much
• 28:49
  details, but you got some very awkward situations from Muslims
• 28:52
  and encompassing. Have other guys are not Muslim
• 28:54
  but example, we should lead by example.
• 28:56
  Okay? And and specifically, when it
• 28:58
  comes to things like her job and I mean for the male and the
• 29:01
  female and our community, And more.
• 29:04
  So for example, in it comes to education because education is
• 29:08
  defining in terms of what we then pass on.
• 29:11
  We live in an era now which our parents never had to go through.
• 29:14
  Yeah, that is education virtually and the fact that we
• 29:18
  can educate people millions of miles away.
• 29:21
  And not literally millions, but pass on information shape,
• 29:26
  people's narratives and their mindsets towards the world.
• 29:28
  And in many cases, that's why, for example, a podcast, like
• 29:31
  after marketing for your podcast browser button, Has such a
• 29:34
  massive responsibility to speak goodness and actually be careful
• 29:38
  about what we're saying because at the end of the day we don't
• 29:42
  want people to in 10 years time to be like.
• 29:43
  Yeah when I was 13, I used to hear this random guy on a
• 29:46
  podcast. Yeah, talk about Imam, Hussein
• 29:49
  and say that all the people who don't follow she is and we're
• 29:51
  going to go to help. No, no, that's not the right
• 29:53
  approach and unfortunately a lot of people do do that and there's
• 29:57
  an easy way to fall into a trap of being like condescending.
• 30:01
  You mentioned this phrase said to me, oh, they are holier than
• 30:03
  thou. What do you what do you mean by
• 30:05
  that? I'll talk with you.
• 30:07
  So I was trying to understand that the finishing behind it.
• 30:09
  I didn't end up searching for additional now.
• 30:11
  Yeah, holier-than-thou, dozen people look down on others,
• 30:14
  right? As and they talk, they talk
• 30:16
  about, I mean, they see themselves like they'll practice
• 30:19
  something. Well, they preach something and
• 30:22
  they wouldn't practice what they preach.
• 30:23
  I think so. I think one of their let's say
• 30:26
  the examples that one of the stories that came to us on the
• 30:28
  podcast is one of the sisters said I absolutely like I've
• 30:32
  stopped going to mosque because I don't understand why our
• 30:35
  speaker is. All they do is they sit on the
• 30:37
  member and let's say they talked about how, you know as an
• 30:40
  example. The prophet had multiple wives
• 30:42
  were let's say how as an example they shout and scream and it's
• 30:46
  these like we don't explain the point Philly, you know, they
• 30:49
  just they leave it over there. And they expect the Lord to come
• 30:52
  finish Wrapped Up and Hold Us. You know, the matches is gone.
• 30:54
  So is a speaker finish. There's no way you can contact
• 30:56
  the speaker and so they don't like, you know, many you you
• 31:00
  wouldn't ever expect a trauma or let's say a misunderstanding to
• 31:03
  come from someone who sits on the member and, you know, gives
• 31:06
  expert but many times, that's where it comes from.
• 31:08
  So we essentially divided, like, we came up with, we're like,
• 31:11
  okay, fine, what are a few reasons and what are a few main
• 31:14
  root causes for these traumas? And a few that we came up with
• 31:18
  is as an example, let's say one is community.
• 31:20
  So the other one is education and then we have family as well.
• 31:24
  So you know how you were mentioning earlier.
• 31:25
  That many times family like, you know, you think how is it, you
• 31:28
  know, someone listening to this point so my could be like okay
• 31:30
  how are you implying that? I let's say I'm the cause of my
• 31:34
  daughter's religious drama. Think about what are you
• 31:38
  teaching her? How will you when she's doing
• 31:40
  something? How will you reacting to it?
• 31:42
  So one of the one of the stories I came to us is let's say there
• 31:45
  is a sister who said that she wasn't it was the day of harsher
• 31:48
  and she wasn't feeling too well. So Told her mom that look, you
• 31:51
  know, I'm I really I'd love to come, but I'm not feeling too
• 31:55
  well. So is it okay?
• 31:55
  If if I don't come she's like no, you know, you still have to
• 31:58
  come. Okay fine.
• 32:00
  So she accompanied her family, you know, they were sitting in
• 32:01
  that they reach the mosque. Everyone got out of the car and
• 32:05
  she said, she's like, I really could not, you know, come can I
• 32:09
  please just sit in the car and I listen to the speakers, is that
• 32:11
  okay? So Mom got out of the car and
• 32:14
  she looks at her and she's like you know what Imam Hussain
• 32:17
  purposely made you sick today. She's like why she's like
• 32:20
  Because he didn't want you to come to the mosque.
• 32:22
  Look at your hijab, like to look at the way he purposely, you're
• 32:25
  not feeling well today, that's why I like him.
• 32:27
  I'm saying that the now imagine if, if this does not result in
• 32:31
  trauma than what what is it? And we need to address this like
• 32:35
  is a beautiful Hadith that says that and it says that as
• 32:41
  basically. So it says that someone asari
• 32:43
  Rolla already mostly written kill all coated in English
• 32:48
  because I can't remember the RV quite accurately right now.
• 32:50
  But basically, And walks in a bath without bus.
• 32:53
  Lira without Insight is like a serrated.
• 32:57
  Tariq Yanni. There is you're walking.
• 32:59
  You don't know what but you don't know enough about the
• 33:01
  path. Are you working on?
• 33:02
  Right? Li is easy to hook a threat to
• 33:04
  the mushy, elaborate. And you're, you're walking
• 33:07
  towards that place, but it's not resulting in anything, but your
• 33:11
  your distance like you, you're not getting your, it's you're
• 33:14
  getting further and further away from the place.
• 33:16
  So you think you're thinking now, look, I'm getting closer,
• 33:19
  I'm getting closer. We really just Want to try them
• 33:21
  on and in fact, you're going, you know, further away from that
• 33:24
  place just because you don't know where you're going.
• 33:26
  So yes, all these preachings are there, you know, and they're
• 33:29
  important and you might see that okay short term, it's making an
• 33:32
  impact on the youth short term, they're listening to you like
• 33:34
  you know, strictly like back in the day was the moms pinching
• 33:36
  from the back and, you know, during the merge has to sit up
• 33:39
  straight. What does shorts term?
• 33:42
  Okay. Fine.
• 33:42
  You know, everyone's sad straight thing of community,
• 33:45
  which is facilitating for questions.
• 33:47
  Yeah. Is it committee?
• 33:48
  Which is strong if we live in a day and age, We're if someone's
• 33:52
  got a genuine question, they could be five years old, like
• 33:54
  your daughter. Say, for example, she's five
• 33:56
  years old, she has a question on why she has to do a certain
• 33:58
  thing when you travel or they might be 15 or they might be 45
• 34:02
  or however, or they are. And if they approach a person of
• 34:04
  knowledge could be their parents, it could be a Community
• 34:07
  member, it could be a chef. And as long as our community is
• 34:10
  facilitating and caters for questions, we're moving forward.
• 34:14
  Exactly, but the minute we become restrictive of a
• 34:18
  question. There's a problem that now the
• 34:21
  I'll be really blunt, there are so many people on different
• 34:24
  ideological spectrums, just within the community, even if
• 34:27
  we're talking about the college, a community, which you, and I
• 34:29
  resided Even in our community, you have the left and the right.
• 34:33
  Yeah. Have the pluralist sand.
• 34:35
  You have the purists, and you've got various everything in
• 34:38
  between. Yeah.
• 34:39
  All right. Now in my humble opinion, asking
• 34:43
  questions is cool because if you're pure, nears to find Huck
• 34:47
  and to find da read and to find a lost, I know, Tyler the
• 34:50
  answers are there. Yeah, if we search for truth
• 34:52
  will find it. Yeah.
• 34:53
  Okay. There's a reason why Imam Ali
• 34:55
  said Saloon to Saloon is the Luna is because he wanted people
• 34:57
  to engage in questions and answers.
• 34:59
  Yeah, and then you get some idiot guy, who's, how many hairs
• 35:02
  on my head and that's That's a classic example of using the
• 35:07
  opportunity of people who are of knowledge and wasting their time
• 35:11
  and wasting your time. Like, when we have people of
• 35:13
  knowledge, we should be seeking out the right answers, but the
• 35:15
  minute you say, no, you can't ask a question or if you got
• 35:17
  asked a question, he's mushrikeen.
• 35:19
  Looking. And he's this.
• 35:20
  And that, then there's a problem.
• 35:22
  Yeah, so asking a question is cool.
• 35:24
  But again, I have to be honest with you, I think there's got to
• 35:26
  be a balance because you will get people who will ask
• 35:29
  questions, which are past the line of of normlessness, you
• 35:33
  know, they're they're immune, for example, said, Let me Give
• 35:36
  an example. If you are someone who asks
• 35:40
  questions for this, for the sake of being The Devil's Advocate or
• 35:43
  causing fitna and trying to stir people up or trying to start
• 35:48
  arguments and you get it. People like that in every
• 35:49
  Community, get out, bro. You're not.
• 35:51
  Welcome it because those sorts of people are not relevant.
• 35:55
  Unfortunately, they would just cause problems.
• 35:57
  And of course, you get people with genuine want to know like,
• 35:59
  you know, we talk about Concepts which unfortunately are very
• 36:02
  debate in our communities to us, whether we're talking in our
• 36:04
  group chat today, people criticize the, the concept of
• 36:08
  Torsten. All right, known as talk about.
• 36:11
  Yeah, let's talk about fine. So there are there's chains of
• 36:14
  narrations and there's there's a Hadith there and there's books
• 36:17
  there and some of them. Your books will authenticate it.
• 36:21
  Yeah. If you want to talk about toxins
• 36:23
  from an academic perspective personal of right.
• 36:25
  Yeah. But if you're a young star and
• 36:26
  you just take to isil is this and that and you might not
• 36:29
  worshiping imams and you're just causing problems then that's not
• 36:33
  productive engagement. So you might and then you'll
• 36:35
  come back with that. Now, I've been traumatized by my
• 36:37
  committee because they forced me to believe in myself at Orson.
• 36:40
  Yeah. Do you see what I mean?
• 36:41
  There's got to be a good imitation Gods as an example.
• 36:44
  Let's say someone comes up to you and says that.
• 36:46
  Okay so I have this, you know, these questions about the
• 36:48
  Western and Fire hazard with the questions, right?
• 36:50
  And let's say it's causing this a little bit of a friction
• 36:52
  within the community. Do you think that that person
• 36:55
  should completely be taken out of the community and Hollis?
• 36:58
  Like, you know, these people should not like this person
• 37:01
  should like you said, like take them out.
• 37:03
  Do you think that this person shouldn't be contacted?
• 37:05
  Or let's say we shouldn't listen to their ideologies more or
• 37:08
  Hollis or should they just be like, very, very good question.
• 37:11
  I guess it's obvious Case by case in many in many
• 37:13
  circumstances, but I think one should engage in conversation to
• 37:17
  the point. Where when Someone's I think
• 37:20
  even the questions I right outfit.
• 37:23
  Yeah, but yeah. But it specifically, for
• 37:25
  example, if someone's asking questions for the sake of
• 37:27
  wanting to learn, hmm, that's different than projecting
• 37:30
  viewers for there's been preachers who take that path and
• 37:33
  just it goes so far extreme that.
• 37:36
  I think you just have to something has to be done about
• 37:39
  it, because that's exactly why I'm getting to like, that's
• 37:41
  exactly what I mean. Like, you'll get people who
• 37:43
  projected views forward. Yeah, to The Pusher was dialogue
• 37:46
  with just your discussing learning, whatever is fine.
• 37:49
  You get people who will project for use to the community and it
• 37:52
  will become threatening to the mangier whether that's good or
• 37:55
  bad is a different conversation. But the idea is that whenever
• 37:57
  anything overlaps or conflicts with what I was at, there's a
• 38:00
  lot of people know that we have that.
• 38:03
  Yeah. Like if something conflicts or
• 38:05
  contradicts our soul and follow a dean and what our mothers have
• 38:09
  says, and what our a Hadith say what the Quran says, then we
• 38:13
  have a problem. Yeah, so then at that stage, our
• 38:15
  community leaders need to work out.
• 38:17
  Only sponsibility, how do you engage It was stuck with such
• 38:20
  people. I'm talking about people asking
• 38:22
  questions rather than rejecting views.
• 38:24
  Yeah, although obviously a lot of the time questions are come
• 38:27
  questions arise because you have speakers.
• 38:29
  Yeah. Or people who have done some
• 38:31
  learning. Yeah.
• 38:32
  Who will project those use and that will result in people
• 38:35
  asking her. She's one of my favorites.
• 38:37
  I had these that sort of helps me with this is that because
• 38:40
  many a times I can are a few of my favorite speakers that I used
• 38:44
  to listen to earlier on. And then now, when I listen to
• 38:45
  their modulus of lectures on a wait, but like, you know, just
• 38:49
  Thinking of a logically. It doesn't make sense like what
• 38:51
  you think. So one of Imam Ali is like one
• 38:53
  of my favorites, a Hadith from Imam Ali and I says are FL hack
• 38:59
  direful or basically identify what the heck is and then you
• 39:03
  follow. Yes, it was.
• 39:04
  Even the context that this Hadith came from like, you know,
• 39:06
  it was and then go to the exactly the Battle of jarama.
• 39:08
  You know, like that, man. So the man that came to my money
• 39:11
  to ask him this question. He was so confused because on
• 39:14
  one end he had people who he thought I was, you know, his
• 39:17
  role models and they are Molly. His role models, who said, what
• 39:20
  is going on, and this will this, you know, it's so practical
• 39:23
  because it will happen again, and again, and again in our
• 39:26
  day-to-day lives as well. Hmm.
• 39:28
  So you need to identify that look, okay, forget about who
• 39:32
  I've been following, you think, okay?
• 39:34
  What is the help and make that your a Meson basically or, you
• 39:38
  know, make that your your clear differing Factor?
• 39:41
  Your barometer that look this is the truth is this person
• 39:43
  following okay, I'm going to follow don't be scared to follow
• 39:46
  if let's say because it was a treat if I'm Ali That the whole
• 39:49
  world would be on one side Battalion on the other side,
• 39:52
  right? So really try to see that.
• 39:54
  Look, this is the heck. I'm going to follow this
• 39:56
  regardless of XYZ, the shape of the Milan and I've been
• 39:59
  following. Is he following it or no?
• 40:01
  And then later on because a lot of doesn't, you know, it's like
• 40:05
  he will. He look at your knee and the
• 40:07
  effort that you've made, you know, he won't be like, oh, you
• 40:09
  know you've went and you followed, you did not follow the
• 40:12
  shake but you followed that shift.
• 40:13
  No, no - points, you know, you look at the fact that you've
• 40:16
  made an effort and he's really not the god of Like, he's really
• 40:20
  out there to give us the plus points rather than the - points.
• 40:24
  So that's, that's one. How do you that helps me?
• 40:26
  And then I'm like, okay, fine. This is the heck, is this person
• 40:28
  following or? No, I am at least, following on
• 40:30
  the day of Judgment, at least I can say that look, I did my
• 40:33
  best. Yeah, yeah.
• 40:35
  Say yeah. Honoring the conversation and
• 40:37
  back a bit to, to our speakers. And, you know, I respect all
• 40:40
  ourselves before you move on the other side of the coin of what
• 40:44
  you mentioned of. Was that was the phrase, as or
• 40:47
  tails holier-than-thou is, I think people who have a high
• 40:55
  Pious individuals who abuse their power, who are preaching,
• 40:59
  one thing to talk about this, well, I just wanted to touch on
• 41:02
  this briefly, because I was going to say, you know, we have
• 41:04
  a lot of speakers and God bless all of them because they all do
• 41:07
  the same job and that's the Shalala, you know, preaching
• 41:09
  Islam, but take it as close as well as upon which out of a.
• 41:11
  Sometimes the way that they can, they preach or say something,
• 41:15
  Ink. And then off the pulpit, they
• 41:17
  come do something else. And I know many people who have
• 41:20
  given up on mosques being part of the community.
• 41:23
  I don't think even a Praying is tackling the individuals may be
• 41:27
  in those positions because they blame these people know, but
• 41:29
  rather it's something that has affected a lot of people in our
• 41:32
  community. So any what?
• 41:37
  I forgot what I wanted to go with this.
• 41:38
  But what do these son individuals need to do like to
• 41:40
  overcome though? There's a lot of people who have
• 41:42
  let go, because there's there's, there's no way we can avoid this
• 41:44
  happening. If someone's emotions being
• 41:47
  cordial is, someone's a good speaker.
• 41:49
  Yeah, naturally. They're going to end up with a
• 41:50
  good position whether their Pious or not that makes sense.
• 41:55
  Unfortunately this this has led to those people who get
• 41:57
  traumatized by this to being inspired by people who they
• 42:00
  shouldn't be inspired by because they call the cops those people
• 42:02
  anymore. Yeah.
• 42:03
  So they're looking up to other no young ads.
• 42:06
  Sore achy, a man or what was the Australian guy called?
• 42:10
  The guy who shot up the bike hablas?
• 42:13
  These guys are amazing speaking, but they're not very all
• 42:16
  writers, but they are clock, and the gods is not ideal to look up
• 42:20
  to. I brought to be honest, a lot of
• 42:21
  people have left our communities because either the preachers or
• 42:24
  even just community members, don't display the, our clock,
• 42:26
  which is that of the unabated, that was like.
• 42:28
  Yeah, you know, there's a lot of people have said, I don't go to
• 42:30
  that Community because they are holier than thou.
• 42:32
  Hmm. They're like that, when I will,
• 42:34
  it happen to people said this to me about certain sense.
• 42:36
  So communities will not go in order to welcome the truly, you
• 42:40
  truly, I was at a wedding on Sunday, a guy said to me,
• 42:44
  mashallah is a brother. But he's, he has a slight
• 42:47
  impairment, is slightly disabled.
• 42:48
  He said to me when I go to the specific Community though,
• 42:51
  names. He goes, I don't feel welcome
• 42:54
  and I felt everyone looks down on me and I'm thinking, well, I
• 42:57
  had other in the so sad. It's really sad like this guy,
• 43:00
  he's he's got nothing. He's not doing anything to
• 43:03
  anyone. Like he's walked into a sin T.
• 43:05
  Just wants to wash up and go home.
• 43:06
  And I know a lot of this religious trauma.
• 43:08
  Yeah. How people judge us.
• 43:09
  Yeah, because they think they're better than us.
• 43:11
  Yeah, for example, we think we are doing more, right?
• 43:14
  Or we, we have a say over, you know, if you're doing something
• 43:17
  wrong, we'll push. And there's been times where
• 43:20
  when I was a kid? Well, not really okay.
• 43:22
  When I was supposed to be 13. 14, 15.
• 43:25
  It's almost is tell you off. They were not, you know, take
• 43:27
  your nicely to a corner device, they don't remember.
• 43:32
  Yeah, and it's like, you know, it makes you not want to come
• 43:35
  back to the mosque again. I know you want to, you've
• 43:37
  probably got so much to say now, I just want to mention
• 43:39
  something. This point you mentioned is
• 43:41
  really important and there's two things that come to mind.
• 43:43
  One is the Hadith our dear brothers from arsenal of to
• 43:47
  remind us, my mom has him up saying Islam when they were
• 43:50
  young and obviously, the way they took the man to do,
• 43:52
  although and in such a fashion which maybe they couldn't take
• 43:55
  him to the side because I'm going to do with one and a
• 43:58
  specific place but their manner of showing someone etiquette and
• 44:03
  lock that they had was was amazing.
• 44:05
  Yeah. Like like you said about,
• 44:06
  Leading by example the second thing as well as you mentioned
• 44:08
  about this doing in front of our own bro, something came to my
• 44:11
  mind. Just now you know, when I was
• 44:13
  young, I was probably 13 just become, barley Oakland all of
• 44:19
  that. And I remember I was doing
• 44:20
  sajda. Hmm, and I was my head was down,
• 44:23
  my hands are on the floor. Some guy next to me started
• 44:26
  pushing my elbow if excited but I do know.
• 44:29
  He's just pushing my robotic. What is going on?
• 44:32
  So often a - we're sitting there, we've done a lot of work
• 44:35
  by three This is also. What are you doing?
• 44:39
  He's like I wanted to see if you're if you're concentrating
• 44:42
  to see if I was like, bro. What is praying while he's
• 44:46
  praying? I was like, asking me if I'm
• 44:48
  concentrating, why you doing that to me?
• 44:51
  So, and I'm thinking now I'm many years later.
• 44:54
  I remember that. This guy tried to test me when I
• 44:56
  was a 13 year old and in front of everyone, there's probably
• 44:59
  500 people Point jamaa together, and this guy in front of her and
• 45:02
  we'll still see it in the lines. He's telling me I wanted to test
• 45:04
  yourself, stop pushing you during the months, you know, A
• 45:06
  few years ago. Yeah.
• 45:07
  Landed at JFK airport. Okay you know you come out in
• 45:10
  the Jeff airport there's like a small place where you to pray.
• 45:15
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 45:15
  What's the time now is a bit different?
• 45:18
  So there was, you know, restroom, we can go to Google
• 45:21
  and I remember going and do although, and I was a look at
• 45:22
  the places like this place, is that this is a start, like, how
• 45:25
  can anyone doable? So I'm trying to be as quick as
• 45:27
  I can nationally. I don't finish.
• 45:29
  My, although there was a man, for me, I think you, who was
• 45:33
  wearing a turban, but at the time of his window, he had taken
• 45:35
  off because he was wearing Nothing else for you and then he
• 45:38
  was like, you all those incorrect.
• 45:40
  Oh shock does. Like what?
• 45:41
  I was. Like one thing will do like this
• 45:43
  for the last 25 years of my life.
• 45:45
  Yeah. What's what have I done wrong
• 45:47
  use? Like you did that once and it
• 45:48
  was supposed to do it twice? No.
• 45:50
  This is supposed to have. Yeah.
• 45:51
  Nice. Having arguing with me in front
• 45:52
  of everyone. I was dead.
• 45:54
  I was like, should I also this guy back?
• 45:56
  Yeah. Or should I just say, thank you?
• 45:58
  I just thank you and leftmost. Like, if I didn't have, you
• 46:01
  know, patients then and there And I was someone else.
• 46:05
  I'm like you're a mole on do. Yeah.
• 46:07
  You're telling me off in front of everyone in top of it is
• 46:10
  wrong way if any off with yeah. It's the holier than though.
• 46:13
  Yeah, exactly. And like we used to have
• 46:25
  basically like fix sessions. So like someone comes in
• 46:28
  experience for clothes and one of someone from the audience
• 46:30
  asked the speaker that. Why do we do must have Act?
• 46:34
  And the speaker says well it's to make a lot happy and in my
• 46:39
  mind I'm thinking I'm like how is like I'm trying to think I
• 46:42
  must have outside as an example. How is me putting water twice
• 46:45
  making a lot happy or how is it? It's a me doing my son of mortos
• 46:50
  you know like how this is like the most about what I as an
• 46:53
  example. Like you know I'm just trying to
• 46:54
  I'm like how is this answer? I think is a bit of a blanket
• 46:57
  statement though. Example some things like what?
• 46:59
  He almost twice that might be at yard.
• 47:01
  Yeah, for example is most important precautionary.
• 47:04
  Posting other things to helps a lot too late.
• 47:06
  Yeah. For example.
• 47:07
  Yeah. That stuff will make a lot.
• 47:08
  Yeah. You know exactly.
• 47:10
  But yeah you're right. It's that for example answers.
• 47:12
  Yes, not so try to so say yes it will make a lot happy but how
• 47:16
  you know like as an example of is a youth in the audience he's
• 47:19
  that this person is going to think that.
• 47:20
  Okay, what like, am I really sitting over here?
• 47:23
  You know, and and I wanted to learn something.
• 47:25
  And this person is telling me like, giving me such answers
• 47:27
  out, of course, rather than will, you know, go to these
• 47:29
  influencers and they have much more to offer.
• 47:31
  This person's teaching how to invest in the latest stocks as
• 47:33
  well. I am not.
• 47:34
  Why am I sitting over here automatically?
• 47:37
  Those answers come and they have all the rights like as an
• 47:39
  example. One of the other stories that
• 47:41
  came in, they used to this is to use the word hate with a few,
• 47:45
  you know, like big personalities that we have like hate towards
• 47:48
  them. You know, sick because of the
• 47:50
  way they were introduced to her in her life.
• 47:54
  Well yes as an example that Allah is a, you know, a lot is
• 47:57
  going to punish you like this and like that it is.
• 47:59
  So of course, she's like then I started hating the concept of a
• 48:03
  God or a higher power. It then she's like, you know
• 48:05
  what? Then this one comes in.
• 48:07
  Let you know what? I'm going to hell.
• 48:09
  Anyways, I'd rather enjoy my life company because they want
• 48:13
  to hello anyway. And yeah, Thunder.
• 48:15
  Haram how are you? They're called they're called
• 48:22
  the death. Yeah, and then, there are
• 48:31
  speakers who will say, no, no, God is God of love.
• 48:34
  And only love, but I have friends who will tell me that I
• 48:39
  don't need to worry because I know a lot knows I've tried my
• 48:42
  hardest. I tried what to do.
• 48:43
  I can and I don't need to worry about the afterlife.
• 48:45
  I think about the other ones. Who say, no, no everything you
• 48:47
  do, like you're the chef. We met now Jeff?
• 48:49
  Yeah, everything you do is wrong and you got to do it three times
• 48:52
  over. It makes you, I don't think
• 48:54
  either is correct. We have to understand a lot, is
• 48:57
  a god of love. Yeah but equally he's a god of
• 49:00
  Jabbar and he's got a broth and he is a god of I'm going to
• 49:04
  disagree with y'all. I'm on a personal level.
• 49:06
  Yeah I mean yes he is a god of love, he is also a God of
• 49:09
  Justice. Yes.
• 49:10
  How can one be merciful and just at the same time because Justice
• 49:14
  implies no bias just what I'm saying.
• 49:16
  If I'm just a someone giving them their, fair share, what's
• 49:19
  equally right? And just towards them.
• 49:22
  But if I'm merciful to someone, I'm being lenient to them and
• 49:24
  I'm giving them more than what they do and was merciful through
• 49:27
  that Justice, and that punishment that I love.
• 49:29
  That Allah gives us is is Mercy. Yeah, just what I mean I'm that
• 49:32
  Justice is part of our sort of the And by the way, hundred
• 49:35
  percent. Yeah I'm just like it's clear as
• 49:39
  day so I don't think it's we I don't think we should Escape it.
• 49:43
  I think we should just be nuanced in the way we discuss
• 49:45
  it. Yeah.
• 49:46
  And like, for example, we talked about this on the podcast that
• 49:48
  is specific analogy. We always mention the injection,
• 49:51
  the vaccination analogy, you take your kid, who's a
• 49:54
  one-year-old to get a vaccine when they turned.
• 49:56
  One battle was my parents who I love and I love respect so much.
• 50:00
  Why they've making my arm hurt. I'm crying and I'm in pain.
• 50:04
  You don't know that your parent is doing this for your own
• 50:06
  protection against chicken pox and Swine Flu in covid-19 for
• 50:10
  example but in the same way when we talk about Allah.
• 50:13
  Yeah we shouldn't scare people away from God.
• 50:16
  Yeah I think we should approach. Allah has mercy and his Justice
• 50:20
  in the same way we do for each other.
• 50:22
  Yeah it has to be a quality in the way we talk about love
• 50:24
  because at the end of the day, a lot of deserves that from us,
• 50:28
  you know, we're nothing. Yeah.
• 50:30
  Talking about a lot itself, is an honor And if we sleep in the
• 50:35
  way we talk about Allah, then we will be punished.
• 50:38
  It's a fact, of course, you know.
• 50:39
  And we and the onus and the responsibility is on us to be
• 50:42
  careful about how we talk about God, but to dismiss some of
• 50:46
  God's qualities and to say like that, there might be speakers or
• 50:49
  there might be authors or whatever.
• 50:51
  Who focus on God? Being the god of love and I
• 50:53
  appreciate that. Yeah, I think we don't to
• 50:56
  brainwash Society is a No-No. So Ka job is you don't have to
• 51:01
  give it 100% because God loves you, it's cool.
• 51:03
  Do you get Me because we can fall into a trap of people
• 51:05
  becoming desensitized to Allah. Yeah.
• 51:07
  And you go I'm coming from I think a good word took sorry.
• 51:10
  Will you please it's a good word that explains his let's say that
• 51:13
  over time they changed the definition of taqwa.
• 51:16
  Let's see. So the stock was defined earlier
• 51:18
  as as fearing God, right? But nowadays the the true
• 51:22
  definition of it is really becoming more.
• 51:25
  Let's say available to everyone and is being clarified.
• 51:28
  So definition of tequila is loving God so much that you fear
• 51:33
  to disobey him so you don't fear him out of his punishment.
• 51:37
  Yeah. Rather fear to it's like us the
• 51:39
  relation that you have with your parents, right?
• 51:41
  You don't you like oh my God, my mom's coming in like is my room
• 51:45
  cleaner, you think okay? I love her so much what I want
• 51:47
  her to come and be like really like you know I do all this with
• 51:52
  your parents. Yeah so have that relation of
• 51:54
  love so the Bonilla and should still be loved best on that.
• 51:58
  Love following up. Would you ever want to hurt?
• 52:00
  You love know. So I think that is what the
• 52:03
  court really is. And then this is the message
• 52:04
  that should be shared essentially.
• 52:06
  That's the punishment, of course is there we deserve that?
• 52:09
  So I think, you know what you were mentioning about the a
• 52:10
  small Allah, what's important is that even as an example when we
• 52:14
  teach the names of Allah we shouldn't just teaches at.
• 52:16
  Okay? I look at Ya - like you know,
• 52:18
  that track that we always remember and, you know, we make
• 52:20
  everyone like the kids always memorize it, it shouldn't just
• 52:23
  be a track that you memorize you should do.
• 52:25
  Jonnie. Chakalaka be a Smiler.
• 52:28
  So, you're basically become that name, Of Allah for one day.
• 52:31
  So a project that I was thinking of recently I was like it'll be
• 52:35
  how amazing would it be as an example.
• 52:37
  To let's say come up with something more about before the
• 52:39
  child leaves. You know, their house for
• 52:41
  school, they pick a chit and they're like, okay today, I need
• 52:43
  to do to her love of the, a small atom of is Malala, Abraham
• 52:47
  on the whole day. Today, I am out, Ramon then, no
• 52:51
  matter. You know, whatever, what's may
• 52:52
  come? This is this is wild.
• 52:55
  Or let's say today I am alko du Surah salams.
• 52:58
  I will be the source of peace. So these names shouldn't just be
• 53:01
  taught as okay. Fine, Hollis the name, I've
• 53:03
  memorized it. No you big come with a name.
• 53:06
  I wasn't trying to you know, implement the attributes in our
• 53:09
  actions and our exactly because we're we're like an empty vessel
• 53:13
  through which God should echo or as an example we are that like
• 53:18
  there's an Ayah in the Quran that says some hello woman.
• 53:21
  I swim in Allah is Subhan Allah right?
• 53:22
  The color of Allah so how beautiful to die yourself in the
• 53:27
  color of Allah. Hmm and that's what God that,
• 53:29
  that that It is why he has created us to see different
• 53:33
  aspects of himself within us. So but we look at him as an
• 53:38
  outer concept, we don't look at him as us.
• 53:41
  He is within us, he Echoes within us, we are an empty
• 53:43
  vessel through which he occurs but we see it as an outdoor
• 53:47
  concert we see religion. As that is religion, that is
• 53:50
  religious knowledge and this is normal knowledge.
• 53:53
  Whereas in reality any type of knowledge that takes you closer
• 53:56
  towards Allah is religious knowledge.
• 53:58
  That's example today that I'm setting up Tom Dream.
• 54:01
  I am like I am shocked at how many things that I study about
• 54:06
  are literally like, you know, it's it's as if I'm studying,
• 54:09
  how College, yes. Or as if I'm studying DNA, you
• 54:11
  know? Because so leading on that, then
• 54:13
  a friend of mine and myself. So we made this page and
• 54:16
  Instagram, that's called high art and it's basically we try to
• 54:19
  relate day-to-day practice. Yeah, so the I art.
• 54:23
  Okay, yeah. So basically I as the related to
• 54:28
  the iron or essentially practices that It's do on a
• 54:30
  day-to-day basis that should remind them of a Lon.
• 54:33
  That's right. Not one Niche Niche best before
• 54:37
  we wrap up. Obviously, I'm I know we're
• 54:39
  getting on in time. It's taking.
• 54:41
  I've really, really enjoyed our special stuff.
• 54:43
  I think there's definitely been a lot of angles to look at this,
• 54:46
  but I just want to share it as we received like a really long
• 54:48
  message from her. Sister fact, we've had loads of
• 54:51
  replies and messages. So firstly, like a huge, thanks
• 54:54
  to everyone at home and Instagram question from the
• 54:56
  Instagram question, we received dozens and dozens of responses.
• 55:00
  The Okay, one, I'm not going to read the whole thing out, but
• 55:02
  the gist of it because it's like three or four long paragraphs,
• 55:06
  the gist of it is talking specifically about how this
• 55:09
  specific sister is upset, how certain mothers would and
• 55:14
  particularly she singles out this, your mother's South Asian
• 55:17
  mothers who would Guilt Trip their children and basically be
• 55:23
  told, you know, their children be told, you're not a religious
• 55:25
  person at such a young age, you talked about, for example,
• 55:28
  mother's telling their children, Allah will curse.
• 55:30
  You you're only seven years old and of course in I thought
• 55:33
  someone goes, I also have had my aunt.
• 55:35
  I see my brother that I love will burn you and fire like
• 55:37
  kebabs. Of course, these kind of shades
• 55:41
  are thing but that's that's from a today.
• 55:43
  I mean, yeah, I mean these kind of things will stay with which
• 55:46
  at that age, their children, but in 30 years time, they're not
• 55:49
  children. And these kind of memories.
• 55:50
  We all have to remember the good and bad memories for my young
• 55:53
  age. I think it's an important thing
• 55:55
  for us to say that. At the end of the day, we are
• 55:57
  where we are and we have practice and But even our
• 56:00
  religion as a result of the, the terrible that we had from our
• 56:05
  parents, not promised you. So, our elders, our friends, our
• 56:09
  teachers will contribute it to make us who we are, where we can
• 56:13
  improve is down to us. Now, as we reach that stage of
• 56:16
  below and I genuinely feel that Allah has made that big guy
• 56:19
  because we are then at age 22 self-assessment, do that Bahasa
• 56:24
  bun, all these things. It's now our job, you know and
• 56:27
  like you said sister at the very beginning.
• 56:30
  What's the point of talking about something?
• 56:32
  If we don't do anything. Hmm.
• 56:33
  So action I want to ask you is kind of like a final question
• 56:36
  from myself and then maybe say it has something laughter to say
• 56:38
  to you, but action-wise. What do you want to see from
• 56:43
  Nevada home? Because inshallah, they'll be
• 56:44
  hundreds of people. Listen to talk about this.
• 56:47
  What do you want to see from them?
• 56:49
  So one thing that I would strongly recommend is when you
• 56:52
  listen to something for the first time, when you're, you
• 56:54
  know, like something that you're like, mmm, okay, does this make
• 56:57
  sense? It doesn't not try to don't just
• 56:59
  dismiss. It's saying that okay this
• 57:00
  person is saying it so it must be correct try to think of it
• 57:03
  and compared to the let's say the barometer of the hack that
• 57:06
  you have okay that because one of the biggest sources of let's
• 57:09
  say knowledge one of the biggest sources of why.
• 57:13
  Now why exactly were basically is some way that Allah speaks to
• 57:16
  us is through our filter. Yeah, it's even like Victorian
• 57:19
  or within you innately, you feel that our senses.
• 57:22
  Yeah, it doesn't really feel exactly, right?
• 57:26
  So ask yourself the okay, does it, does it not then research
• 57:29
  further? And because for all, you know,
• 57:31
  it might be that the speaker Ten Years, Later comes and says, I
• 57:33
  apologize about something that I said, but then you have base
• 57:37
  your entire life on this concept.
• 57:38
  Why why? Because this person says it
• 57:41
  Allah on the day of judgment, ask you now, I created you.
• 57:45
  So I'm asking you why you did this action not X y&z, that
• 57:48
  person has their own grave and their own.
• 57:49
  Am I right? Select from do, you know,
• 57:51
  company idea. So whatever you here, and you're
• 57:55
  a little confused about it, do your own research and ask
• 57:57
  yourself, is this true or is this not And I think that's what
• 58:00
  really helped in going forward. Instead of just being like, OK,
• 58:03
  this person decided Hollows blindly following basements.
• 58:06
  Very nice. Nice reminder.
• 58:07
  That's right. And I had something similar to
• 58:09
  this and I think I'm going to repeat.
• 58:11
  Again, I've said in previous podcast, you know what listens
• 58:14
  something of the pulpit and I'll go double check it.
• 58:16
  Yeah. If it's something I haven't
• 58:17
  understood well or, you know, felt like I said, well, the way
• 58:20
  I've been understanding or race or religion is.
• 58:23
  But one thing I do want to mention is up like you mentioned
• 58:27
  Allah subhanahu wa'ta'ala. You know, people say God is
• 58:29
  It'll ultimately a lot of pain at all is beautiful and he likes
• 58:33
  Beauty. And I think the beauty in this
• 58:34
  conversation is that we need to be beautiful in the way.
• 58:37
  We advise people we speak with them because you know, at the
• 58:40
  end of the day, we know Allah should either lock up.
• 58:42
  Like it's impossible to know that there is a God and there's
• 58:45
  no justice. Yeah, I need if we install from
• 58:47
  a young age and our children, you know, for example who did
• 58:50
  you know, you know, tell, Hey Dad, I just thought Justice or
• 58:55
  the fifth one, you know, the argument.
• 58:56
  I am like we know there's accountability that's possible
• 58:58
  to others all of This, I think it will help this generation
• 59:02
  grow on the forward rather than, you know, for example, be
• 59:04
  rebellious or, for example, say, you know, she said this or he
• 59:08
  said, though, small Lana doesn't always talking about.
• 59:10
  No, it's embedded in us from a very, very young age that when
• 59:13
  we grow up and you mentioned, very early on, in the
• 59:15
  conversation where you can teach your children, you can trust
• 59:18
  them as they grow that, you can set back.
• 59:20
  Yeah, relax. In a way that God is the
• 59:22
  mentality that we need. Not just from our parents are
• 59:24
  from the poultice, I think, from the highest authorities in our
• 59:28
  communities. Absolutely.
• 59:29
  Stems back to being. I think I'm not around the right
• 59:32
  people and we talked about in the same way we talk about role
• 59:34
  models to talk about friendship. A lot on this podcast talk about
• 59:37
  the right people's hang around with and shallow we can we can
• 59:41
  advise each other and do that. But I've been my old or 49 and
• 59:44
  munkar with each other in the right way and of course and yeah
• 59:49
  I've gained a lot of so sister I just want to first thank you so
• 59:53
  much for being here for four, kind of getting in touch with us
• 59:57
  and obviously for yourself. If forward to discuss this with
• 1:00:01
  us and I just want to make this abundantly clear that sisters
• 1:00:04
  are has brought something to after Maghrib in a concept we
• 1:00:08
  knew nothing about has affected us and of course, has
• 1:00:12
  enlightened us educated us and inshallah wheeled, kind of learn
• 1:00:16
  take these into our own lives as parents, and I surely hope.
• 1:00:19
  Hopefully, you know, refine and improve our owners method of
• 1:00:23
  parenting and teaching, and whatnot.
• 1:00:25
  So, thank you very much. I really, really am.
• 1:00:26
  It has been an honor and honestly I have I've learned a
• 1:00:29
  lot as well. Thank you so much.
• 1:00:31
  We like to look at Chandler, won't traumatize our children.
• 1:00:35
  Hopefully, our voice is a troll with eyes and ears either.
• 1:00:38
  Guys, just to wrap up as usual. We are active online on social
• 1:00:42
  media on YouTube as well. If you are not already
• 1:00:45
  subscribed aftermarket up on YouTube, please hit that
• 1:00:48
  notification Bell and hit that subscribe button.
• 1:00:50
  So you know, every single Thursday, when we release a
• 1:00:53
  podcast you're the first one to hear it and obviously you can
• 1:00:56
  follow us on Tick-Tock on Instagram and we're also on
• 1:00:59
  Twitter. As well.
• 1:01:00
  We've also, of course, got a new show, jump and nights, which is
• 1:01:03
  under the after Margaret franchise with the automotive
• 1:01:05
  brand. So tune into that releases every
• 1:01:08
  Friday. So much of anything to add on to
• 1:01:10
  that because I know obviously, we're working on that as a team,
• 1:01:12
  keep up with the after my club universe and follow bras about.
• 1:01:23
  So that's at browser, banter Instagram.
• 1:01:25
  And then we have a YouTubers and for the non-core jobs, who are
• 1:01:27
  listening what bars? I mean, for us Means boast.
• 1:01:31
  How would you describe it actually I'm address it from my
• 1:01:33
  purse but I want you to. Yeah.
• 1:01:34
  How would you describe as a Nawrocki?
• 1:01:36
  Yeah the translation I see is like gossip but I think I know
• 1:01:38
  that's the wrong definition that yeah I would say like a
• 1:01:41
  chitchat. Yeah having fun sitting down and
• 1:01:45
  talking. Yeah I got that.
• 1:01:46
  Or am I supposed to afford your community?
• 1:01:49
  Yes, and then as soon as the match is over, they say chill
• 1:01:52
  chill. What will have some bars?
• 1:02:03
  And everyone at home. Thank you as well.
• 1:02:05
  We will see you next week. Stay tuned was not my, they
• 1:02:07
  come, but I'm to live in America.