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Unleash Your Potential – Embracing Self Employment as a Financial Planner · Financial Planner Life Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: And today's guest on the Financial Planner Life podcast is Adam Cockerham.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_01: He's a chartered financial planner.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_01: He's a fellow and he's also a partner in his own financial planning firm.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_01: We talk about what it's like to be a financial planner, self-employed, within the first year.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: He was referred to me by Daniel Grattan, who moved from recruitment into financial planning, self-employed.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_01: He's had such a wonderful experience being mentored by Adam that I had to get him on the podcast.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: And today Adam shares his mindful approach to the first year of being a self-employed financial planner.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: So if you're new to the profession, especially if you're self-employed, you're gonna love this episode.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: Adam, thank you so much for joining me today on the Financial Planner Live podcast.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: How are you?
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: I'm very well, thank you.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: And it's a pleasure.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for inviting me.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_01: You're more than welcome.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: You you came highly recommended.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_01: Daniel Grattan, who works at your company.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I first met him when he was looking for a recruitment job.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: So he had a career in recruitment, obviously, you know this, but the listeners don't.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: So he worked in recruitment and did recruitment for financial planning companies and then eventually did his qualifications, and now he's working for you guys there.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, he's hit the floor running and he spoke highly of you, said that you were a fantastic mentor, and you really helped him within his first year of being a financial planner.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_01: And he was like, get him on the podcast, because I think people who are in my situation would love to hear his journey, his story, and how he approaches things.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_01: So here you are today.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_01: You're a local advisor, you're based in Bath, aren't you?
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I live in Bradford on Avon.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um our head officers just moved to Corsum last year at Harton Park.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: So we we cover that sort of area.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: Fabulous.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: Excellent.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: I'll tell you what, let's kick things off first with how you got into the financial planning uh profession.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_01: Just to give us a bit of a career overview to where you are now.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I came into it.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: I was 25, 26.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: I was working business development roles in previous companies, and I always had a love for you know numbers, the markets, and uh, but I also wanted to combine that with uh with the skills I already have, with face-to-face uh work with individuals um from a business and personal point of view.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: So I joined a training program of a previous firm to become a financial planning assistant, then power planner, um whilst I did my exams and then I became a financial advisor a couple of years later.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: And was that a just a natural transition then?
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_01: Is that where you currently are at the moment?
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: You started in admin to power planning, straight into financial planning, or did you go from power, you know, did you go from admin to power planner?
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: Did you change career direction, come back to financial planning?
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: What was the journey?
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I've since the point of wanting to get into the financial planning profession, I've been in it ever since.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: So that was 2016, when I did admin power planner, and then I became a self-employed financial advisor with within a practice.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, 2018, that happened.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: 2018.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: So down the route of admin power planning, then you joined as a financial planner.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_01: Did you join as a financial planner on an employed basis or straight into self-employment?
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: Straight into self-employment.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, great.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_01: Which is very common at the moment.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: We're seeing lots of people, second careers, especially.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_01: There's so many people crying out for new advisors to join the profession.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: We've got these academies out there, but in reality, the only route they actually offer these academies is the self-employed route.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_01: And it's lots of people out there where they're thinking, Jesus Christ, going two-footed into self-employment seems really risky.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's it's a scary, it's a scary thought, right?
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_01: Doing that.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: It it's terrifying.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: And because it was, you know, it was only five between five and six years ago when I when I made that jump, I remember that feeling really, really well.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: And when we're bringing in uh new people into the business, it's I can really empathize with how they're feeling because it's a big jump, and at the time it it does feel like a massive risk.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but if you get into that from the start, it can be very rewarding.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but it it yeah, you're you're jumping from security into a a new profession, and there's no not the same level of guarantees in it.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: Thank thankfully, thankfully, for our business, as as you build, that there is an element of security that comes with it over time.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, it's it's a big hurdle to jump for sure.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_01: How long did you spend in the admin and power planning position before you built the confidence to feel like I'm gonna go for it as a self-employed financial advisor?
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_01: It was around 18 months.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_01: Around 18 months, okay, cool.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_00: And then when I and I I was ready to make that change at that point, so I finished the rest of my AAFs in my first, which is probably suicide and a bit silly at the time, but in the first few months of going self-employed with a wife who was pregnant with our first baby.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I uh glove for punishment comes to mind for sure.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_01: So lots of people at the so when we look at the financial planning profession at the moment, right, it's it's only really starting to create this entry-level opportunity.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_01: So if you were lucky enough to be an administrator and a power planner, and perhaps you were in a firm that do have a career development plan that can take you to financial advisor, fantastic, right?
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_01: But it's only really, the profession's only really opening up to the fact that there is a an entry point route now, starting for somebody, which would really, really start administration to power planning to trainee financial planner into financial advisor.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think going down that route yourself, do you think that was the best route for you?
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_01: Or, you know, how do you feel about these individuals that a second career is say coming from a marketing background or recruitment, for instance, and jumping straight into financial planning?
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_01: What do you think?
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_01: What's the best route, do you think, for someone considering a career within financial planning with a goal of becoming a financial advisor?
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: So I I think without it being a cop-out answer, it is down to the individual making that decision and their own respective skill sets.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: Because I was new completely to the industry with no qualifications whatsoever.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_00: So I did my qualifications whilst learning the job, uh, as the admin and power planner wrote.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: But the the biggest shift when you go into a financial advisor is dealing with people which you don't which you don't learn.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_00: And the emotional management of of people with respect to their money is a is a skill you're only it's the vast majority of the job, and it's the only skill that you'll you'll ever attain by doing it.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_01: When you so being the administrator, being the power planner, as a base level of knowledge around the day-to-day runnings of a business, the day-to-day um tasks that are attached to to selling a product or giving advice to somebody, do you think having that experience is more beneficial than coming in without that experience?
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I would say understanding the process, and because that's one thing you don't have to learn when you start, because you know how it works and you've done it, writing suitability reports, fund analysis, all that sort of thing.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_00: You you've already got that skill set in the bank.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: So when you come to join from outside the profession, you've you've also got that little bit extra that you've got a bot on top.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: So I I would say it was I'm I'm glad I did it that way.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but also on on a on the negative slant, you if you go self-employed under a different phone than the one you've been a paraplanner for, then your processes are going to be entirely different anyway, and you still have that steep learning curve, irrespective of the direction that you go in.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: So I certainly don't think it's it would hamper you if you made that change, like we've seen with our mutual friend uh Dan Grattan, he he's come in and done brilliantly.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_00: And he's coming from a recruitment background.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_01: Very interesting point you raised there, actually.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_01: If you are an administrator, so if you've gone in as an administrator, moving into power planning, right?
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, you've learned the systems, yes, you've learned the processes that are attached to the firm that you're actually working for.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_01: You're absolutely spot on.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_01: But if you leave that firm, everything can change, can't it?
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_01: So if you, you know, if that company that you've joined doesn't progress you or doesn't have a career progressing plan or doesn't have a vacancy open for you to become a financial planner, and you're itching to get into the role of face-to-face financial advice, you're gonna have to start again with another company in respect of the systems that they use.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_01: They might have completely different CRMs, um, different platforms that they use.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_01: They might be IFA as opposed to restricted.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_01: You might be you know in an environment like that.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and even in the internal processes, like leaning into administrators, power planners, marketing teams, etc., things can be completely different.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, one of the things I always kind of try to instill in somebody who comes to me who is thinking about becoming a financial planner, and they are looking for that entry-level route in.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: So administration to power planning as opposed to going two-footed into financial advice.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe they don't have the qualifications or the life experience to feel confident to actually do it, is to say, look, you know, how long do you want to stay in that position for before you think about progressing into financial advice?
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_01: You took you 18 months, you know, 18 months in that role.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's giving you some sort of solid ground and some solid experience.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_01: You've got your qualifications under your belt, most importantly during that period, to then step into financial advice.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I always say to people, look, if you're gonna go into an interview, make sure you quiz that company.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_01: What is their career development plan actually look like?
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_01: Can I end up hitting my long-term goal of becoming a financial planner within this business?
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_01: And it's worth probing, isn't it, and asking those questions at that interview stage.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's not a negative thing to talk about.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_01: Where is my career gonna go?
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: How am I gonna be developed into the role I initially want to do, which I sorry eventually want to do, which is financial planning?
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, which I always say is really, really good advice to give somebody at that early stage.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: You left a company to go and join another company, right, as a financial planner.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's it.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, okay, cool.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_01: And that experience, that transition, did you find it different?
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it was completely different.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_00: The systems were different, the the process was different.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_00: And to be honest, over the almost six years I've been at my current firm, our processes internally have changed multiple times over that period because the environment changes, regulation changes.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: So you there's always an element of your time you've got to spend on developing and learning new processes, or you fall behind anyway.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_00: So it yeah, it's always changing, and as long as you embrace that attitude of constant change and progress, then it doesn't matter too much as long as the attitude's there.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_01: So, what why did you choose self-employment then?
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_01: So to go from power planning straight into self-employment.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_01: I want to hear about your mindset at that point, where you were in your life, because it sounded a stressful time actually in your life, got a kid on the go and all that sort of stuff.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_01: I've got a child, I know exactly what that's like.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: I run a business, it's it can be stressful.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm really interested just to go back a little bit, give us that kind of lowdown and detail as to why you actually chose to go self-employed as opposed as opposed to employed.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_01: What was the mindset like and the vision for you at the time?
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_00: So I knew that if I went into an employed stable, if you want, uh position, with the way the profession works and how you're remunerated and how you grow over time, then I knew with every passing year of being employed, it was going to be harder and harder to make a significant change, particularly with a growing family and and all the commitment that comes with that.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_00: So for me, it was uh now is the time.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_00: If it's going to work for me, it's now's the time for me to do it.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I never look back.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_01: And you never look back.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_01: So when you okay, let's break that down a little bit, because if someone's employed, for example, as a financial planner, they have a salary, right?
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: They're remunerated with a basic salary.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_01: And if the firm also has some kind of remuneration package around performance, then there might be a bonus structure attached to it.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: We can't call it bonuses, you know, we shouldn't be incentivizing financial planners to write business.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: That's a terrible thing to say.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: But it certainly is.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but you know, that's the reality of it, right?
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_01: You, you, you know, when you're when you're employed, you're either getting a tap on the shoulder at the end of the year to say, look, here's your bonus based on hitting all the things like your compliance, bringing new business in, all those typical types of things.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: Or quite simply, a firm might just have a multiplier of your basics.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_01: Let's say, for example, on a 40k basic, you might have to do three times your basic salary in respect of new fee income or recurring income before you might start earning some bonus.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_01: And that bonus could be a percentage.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: It could be 30% of all business written above three times validation of your salary, right?
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_01: Now, the thing is, and the thing you've alluded to there is once you're employed and you're in that position, yes, there's stability there, right?
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: You've got that stable income.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: And at a point in the time and at a point in your life, that might be really important, especially around buying a house.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you need that multiplier of income.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: And the the idea, and you're used to having it, maybe you're in a relationship and that person's a bit more uh cautious around um and worried about money income coming in.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: You might also not have a great deal of money in savings.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if you've got financial backing, for instance, or maybe you have a lump sum in your bank account that will cover you during those periods of being self-employed, but you're not receiving an income, great.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_01: But if you haven't, that's squeaky bum time.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_01: And you guys teach that, don't you, as financial advisors, to have that emergency fund in your bank account.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_01: And it works exactly the same way if you're going to go and run and set up a business.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_01: You need to make sure you've got that emergency fund in place because you might not write business that quickly, you know, as quick as you hope, or as quick as you're being told.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_01: Some companies out there will actually sit somebody down and say, Oh, it's a piece of piss to write business in financial planning.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: You'll be earning this much in year one.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_01: And there's numerous advisors that I speak to have gone through specific types of training or academies, and it hasn't come to fruition that way.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it hasn't actually happened that way.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: So there is that anxiety, I suspect, when people are thinking, do I go employed?
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: Do I go self-employed?
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, you've got to think about that employed.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_01: What how does that work for me?
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_01: What's the negative?
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_01: And the negative you just brought and alluded to there is that in the long term, you're not building that intrinsic value, are you, in your client bank.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_01: Do you want to explain that to somebody so they can understand what why you made that decision, why you felt being self-employed was more valuable to you?
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so it's similar to how you educate your clients on the benefits of investing.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_00: You you're not investing to look at your balance month on month, even year on year.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: You're looking at okay, what am I building here and what is the long-term plan?
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: Now, if you're not bothered about building up your own client bank and having control over your earning potential and freedom to work as you please, then the employed root great, because that offers you the stability and structured hours and and less need to find clients in your business.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_00: But if you want to build, as you say, long-term intrinsic value in all the efforts that you've done beforehand, then building up a client bank with its own value inherently in it that you are responsible for and have influence over, then that's never going to happen on an employee contract.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, absolutely.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_01: And from a long-term value perspective, you know, if you're building a business and it's your business, and let's say, for example, you want to exit at some point in time and you don't want to work as a financial planner anymore, there is an opportunity to exit and pass that client bank on to somebody else, basically sell that client bank on to somebody else.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_01: Now, there may be an internal buyout option within a firm that you join, and that might be the reason why you might join that company because you feel confident that if I do stay here for 10 to 15 years, if I do get my assets under management to 20, 25, 30 million, you know, 1% recurring income for charging 1%.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: We're looking at potentially three times validation.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_01: We're looking at 90, 9, 900,000,000 pounds as a buyout option.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_01: You know, when you're employed, for example, unless there's some kind of share ownership or uh scheme in place, you're not going to receive anything because the contract says the clients are with that company, not with yourself, right?
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_00: So that and you know, we offer retiring advisors, you know, lump sum exits and things like that.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_00: So you you have the there are three ways of doing it.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: You either set up your own business from scratch, you go down the employed route, or there's there's a nice middle ground for a lot of people where you set up self-employed, but within the umbrella of a larger practice who can offer you existing clients to work with, which gives you some recurring income from day one, uh, referrals coming into the business, um support, mentoring, all that sort of thing.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_00: So for people in particular stages of life, that can be a really good option if they're willing to take a little bit of a leap of faith with respect to their employment stability, in able to exponentially grow what they do over time based on their own efforts and the input from others.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I found for me that was the perfect approach to go to.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: And then opportunities come on later down the line within the the firm that you're working within as well.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_00: So multiple people working together can can provide really good results.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I I think you know, for the for the new people coming through the door, they find that environment really good because you nurture, mentor, assist, and help grow.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: And you've got to be generous with them at the end of the day because they're taking a big leap of faith uh to do that.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: So it's I take the responsibility very seriously that I understand that those people for the first few months to first 12 months are sat there thinking, oh my word, everything has changed and everything is crazy.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: And it's it's our responsibility to make sure that they succeed.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_01: I like what you said there as well, the breakdown.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you can go self-employed.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_01: The options are, and I think, you know, if someone's listening to this podcast and doesn't really have an idea around self-employment, you've got the directly authorised route where you're going directly authorized by the FCA.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: You're responsible for everything.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: You need capital adequacy, it's going to cost you about£45,000 to go directly authorized.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_01: And you are responsible, right?
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: Or you can be an AR.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: So you can be an appointed representative of, say, a network.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_01: What that means is you might have your name above the door.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_01: It could be Sam's IFA, but I'm not responsible for the compliance side of it.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_01: I'm responsible for doing a good job, obviously, and making sure that all everything's filled out correctly.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: But it's my type, it's the compliance team of that network that are going to initially sign that off.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: Well, there's the bit that you've just mentioned there, and this is the bit that I think is a lovely springboard into self-employment, is becoming a registered individual on a self-employed basis underneath an already established firm.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_01: That firm could be directly authorized, or that firm could actually be an AR that's built a practice underneath a network.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_00: That's what you are.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we're we're an open work practice.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_00: So the the combination of the compliance being taken away from you, uh, you know, there's people will argue the the benefits of which option till the cows come home.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_00: And it really is down to the to the individual to decide what is the right thing for them.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: But for us, having the compliance processes, uh regulation, adherent, and all that sort of thing taken away from us, it allows us to focus on the job.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_00: And for somebody coming through the door as a self-employed new advisor with little experience, that that can be quite well, very valuable indeed for them.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: The key thing here, and I think you're banging on about it, definitely, is the environment.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: The environment has to be right for that person who is stepping into self-employment.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you have to feel comfortable and confident that if you're going to join a firm, that they've got that support mechanism wrapped around you.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_01: The fact that you guys are an AR, it takes away the response, not responsibility as such, but it, well, it does take away a lot of the pressure of compliance.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_01: That frees up your energy and time to be able to deliver a good service to the employees that work for you.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, it allows you to work with them, perhaps and train, develop, coach, mentor them.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_01: And this is what Daniel was saying to me.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_01: You know, he's gone from recruitment, he's gone from recruitment into financial planning, self-employed.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: Saying, you know, you went straight into self-employed as well.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: But he was talking about like the first year is the toughest.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_01: You know, he is working long hours.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_01: He is working till 10, 11 o'clock at night, he's telling me.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_01: He said he's working really, really hard.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_01: And he said the reality in the first year, it's tough, it's rewarding, but it's tough.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: And having an environment that you work in that can support you now, and that's another thing, you know, it's it's it's not just supporting you with compliance, right?
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: Or a website or anything like that.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's hands-on, you know, it's it's hands-on mentoring.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_01: It's somebody who's trodden the path beforehand, who can turn that around and deliver some training and some development and some coaching, can kick, you know, steer you in the right direction.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: They've gone through the jungle with their machete and they've cut down everything and you're following that path.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's a tried and tested path.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_01: So going self-employed straight into it, or even just going from employed into self-employed, having the bl, you know, having the mindset of like looking at the firm that you're joining, do they have that support in place?
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_01: What's the environment like?
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: Because I'm gonna need help within those first couple of years.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_01: Because not only do you need your competent advisor status, you need sign-off, you need supervision.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_01: So there needs to be free, you know, people free to be able to do that, right?
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_01: We need people to be there able to do that, observe, coach, all those typical types of things.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: But even things like the, you know, passing clients on.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_01: Are there, is there, is there a good lead source within the company or is there client banks that can be passed on?
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_01: Can somebody bring me into a client meeting and show me how to deliver things in the correct and proper way, especially if I don't have experience exposure as a power planner, perhaps, you know, sitting into client meetings?
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: So just talk about your environment.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_01: What do you think a great environment actually is?
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_01: Let's dig onto that then.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_01: So what's a great environment for, you know, as an incubator, let's say, for the first year for somebody going in self-employed as a financial planner?
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so there's a few things that I, you know, we like to work on an offer for self-employed advisors coming in.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: Now, the the first one, and it is, you know, to very cliche at the moment, but it it is the culture.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_00: And it's to have somewhere where we're all together, we can bounce ideas off, just discuss cases together, discuss you know how we get our name out there.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: And we we all get together once a week as a full company and um offer continual training and uh discuss cases together and processes, what's worked, what hasn't.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_00: And the new people coming in, they may not have as much input into the discussion, but they can pull a lot from it just by us all being together.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_00: So if you have a completely disjointed firm where everybody's all over the country, and then you've got somebody sat in their bedroom trying to make some money without I don't know how long that's going to work for them.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: And it's your responsibility to offer that to them.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_00: And so there's that, and then when people join, we offer um clients for them to work with with some residual income.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_00: That's one thing I really care about because to these people making that big step, you've got to be generous with them because they they need the opportunities to flourish.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're not going to help them, the reason they joined within a firm rather than set up on their own is for the very reason if they need a supporting environment, right?
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_00: Otherwise, they'd just go directly authorized and do it themselves.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_00: So be generous with them.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: So I I give most of my leads away now that come in and inquiries, and that was quite uh psychologically strange thing to do at first, but I've got used to it, and it's like, you know who's perfect?
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: This new person I've got in my team is perfect for that, and that's helping them build up their client bank and getting the name out there, which then starts to generate referrals, etc.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, so so that's really helpful.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_00: We do shadowing meetings, so they come out with the three directors when they first start and come to our meetings and see how we liaison with clients and and how that works.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_00: And so the first few months is very much a systems training and and shadowing and all that sort of thing.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_00: And we also provide funding to the new people who come in if they need it.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_00: So some people come straight out of a job with little savings if they're relatively young or just come out of a training program, and you know, we'll offer them financial support to help them.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_01: It's really important.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_01: I really like what you said there.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_01: You you've hit the nail on the head around how to support somebody who's going in straight away, employed or self-employed, really.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_01: You do need to be able to put some clients in front of them to get them that, to give them that experience and to give them that confidence.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_01: You know, gone are the days of like chucking somebody the yellow pages and saying, you know, smash the phone until you find some clients.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_01: Look, that's decent experience, but that's the sort of thing you do in a job like recruitment, right?
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_01: Daniel did that.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_01: He smashed the phones, he picked up, he knows how to he knows how to pick up the phone, he's a hard worker.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_01: You learn those skills that are transferable from some perhaps some other jobs.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_01: And anybody listening says, I think definitely, if you're gonna go into the world of financial advice, you need to have you need to have had some experience where you are showing resilience and you are picking up that telephone and making calls and consulting people and trying to sell things, you know.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's really, really important because those skill sets and transition across is great.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_01: You're gonna use those later on down the line.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_01: However, that's not to say that when you first start within financial planning, that's the first thing that you should actually do, because it's do it doesn't teach you anything.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's it's it's hard graft.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_01: And if you're self-employed, it's gonna take you a lot longer to get some income.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: So having something where they can lean into, perhaps a lead source, uh perhaps an existing client, you know, existing um advisor, um existing advisor you can pass on some business, perhaps there's a succession plan in place in that thinking.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_01: But what it also does is it ties that advisor into the culture and the values of the business so they feel more connected to it.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_01: You're a partner in this company, right?
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_01: You want people to grow your business.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_01: So it makes total sense to support those advisors, whether they're employed or self-employed, right?
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, of course it does, because we're all part of an ecosystem that is self-fulfilling.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_00: If they do well, we do well.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_00: If if we do well for them, they do well for us.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: And it's the that sounds cheesy, but movement of energy between all parties is is good for everybody.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_01: I like that.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_01: The movement of energy.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_01: That's not cheesy, that's how I think.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a massive fan of energy flow, you know, and I think it does flow around like that, and you've got to open up those energy channels and pass it through.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_01: I like it.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, let's talk about that year, that first year of being a financial planner on a self-employed basis.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_01: You know, Daniel sort of alluded to the fact he's working very hard, you know, it is tough, but he absolutely loves it and he really enjoys it.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_01: Let's talk about mindset then of going into your first year of being a financial planner.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_01: What's the type of mindset someone really needs to have?
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_00: So you need a growth mindset, and and you've got to, there's no point telling people when they come through the door or come to talk to you that your first year is gonna be easy because it isn't.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_00: And anybody who says you'll walk in and you'll earn X and you'll do this easy peasy, as you said earlier, is is quite misleading, really, because it's the the outcomes you could have in your first year, the broad spectrum of outcomes is is pretty big.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_00: And some of it's down to luck, some of it's but you can create your own luck by working hard.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_00: And you do have to work key socks off in the first year.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_00: There's there's there's no point saying otherwise, but it's important as well to give the tools already in place for these advisors so they're not working so hard that they're either not doing the job as well as they could do, or so I said, like you said, Daniel's working really hard, and I said to him yesterday, I said, How many days off have you taken this year so far?
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_00: And he was like, Two.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, mate, have some time off.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_00: You're doing great, have a breather, come back to it.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um and yeah, that's that's really important.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_01: So the mindset around looking after yourself as well as putting in those basically going into it in the mindset, it's gonna be tough, it's gonna be hard, it's not gonna be easy.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_01: You know, year one is all about learning, getting your feet under the table, understanding the clients, understanding how the business works, understanding quiet client acquisition, how you deliver advice, the timescales and things attached to it.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_01: But don't forego your own personal health.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_01: Don't sort of put your health to one side or your own personal well-being to side to actually take time to recharge, you know, build that energy back up again that we were talking about, and make sure that you come in the next day in a good state of mind.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_01: You said to me earlier, you're you know you work out five times a week.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_01: I love working out, I train hard.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_01: Three days I stopped training this week.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_01: I went back on yesterday and I was lifting five kilograms heavier than I was last week.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I was just like, why is that?
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_01: And it was like because I had a rest, because I gave myself that time to recharge.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_01: You know, my body has recovered, my mind has recovered.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you let go of this, you know, you have these little feelings in the back of the mind, like, well, I should be doing something, I should be doing something.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_01: But actually, it's the rest and the recuperation that when I go back to the task, I do it better.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that's it.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_00: If you take 10% out of your time to focus on yourself, be that whatever you do, if it's the gym, meditation, go for a run, go for a walk, whatever it is that helps you switch off.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_00: You may lose 10% in the time you're spending on the task, but you might gain 25% in productivity.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, you you've got to be prepared to work smart, not as you've got to work hard in your first year, no doubt about it.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_00: But if you work smarter, you can make most of that time that that you're using.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um and yeah, like like you say, is there's the growth mindset that's important, and there's also looking after yourself, so you can look after your clients as well.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_01: Mindfulness plays a big part, I think, when it comes to being a success.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_01: I think being being mindful of how you are talking to yourself is one of the best ones.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_01: You know, am I catastrophizing?
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_01: You know, am I putting these thoughts that are coming into my head that I'm not good enough?
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_01: Or, you know, you know, I have a high expectation of myself or others?
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_01: Am I putting these thoughts on trial?
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_01: Am I looking for evidence to see if what I'm thinking is actually true?
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_01: What part has mindfulness played in your early career part of your journey?
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_01: Do you teach that to the newbies that come through?
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's become a really big part of my life, actually, over the last two, three years.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, I you know, when people start catastrophizing or panicking about the workload, I just try and talk them down a little bit and remind them that nobody's dying, everybody's okay.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and actually, if you reframe it, you're actually in a really positive position that you are so busy with all this work.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_00: And it doesn't have to get done by the end of the day.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_00: If you manage your diary around it, you can give yourself enough freedom to do it in a much less stressful way.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_00: Because the job has the ability to cause stress, but it's not the job that's stressing you out, it's your own thinking about the job that stresses you out.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_00: So as soon as you start to realize that, then it's it becomes a lot more manageable because all the job is, is things you have to do.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_00: You either choose to let it just completely take over your mindset, or you can treat it for what it is and just get on with it, um, which makes the whole thing a lot easier.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_01: What do you think are great tips for somebody then in that situation?
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_01: Perhaps they are overthinking something, perhaps they they have ambition, perhaps it's borderline unhealthy ambition.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_01: What do you think are some of the tips around the mindset, around maybe time management, maybe around task management?
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_01: What things do you think have worked for you that you would tell somebody in their first year to start to implement because over time it's going to have a hugely positive effect on them?
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so from a day job point of view, your processes you know keep you back and forth to a minimum, you know, with clients.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_00: Get everything you can in one go, even if it takes you a little bit longer to do it in the first instance.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_00: And then you're keep yourself in control of the in of the process.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_00: Get what you need during your meetings.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_00: So the only person that's responsible for the next step of the client journey is yourself until you go see them again.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I I can see I've seen too much back and forth previously where there's oh, information missing up, oh forgot to ask that, etc.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_00: And then you've got to go back to multiple parties to try to get that information, you're then at the mercy of that party responding when you've got busy life children to look after, etc.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_00: So if you focus on the time that you're using with people, even if it takes longer, it actually speeds up the whole thing.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um and there's a lot of stuff you can get from people before you even start, before you even meet them, which helps you to focus your conversations with people on things that are a little bit more fruitful rather than what's your date of birth, what's your national insurance number, and things like that.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_00: Because that sends you on a whole different conversation path.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_00: And it's hard to change it then once you start doing that.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_01: So it's about creating the best process, right?
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_01: The best system and the best process for gathering that information in a kind of one and done scenario.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_01: So you're not going back and forth, you're not wasting that time.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_01: But also you're clearing your mind, aren't you?
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's nothing worse than not getting something, pushing on to the next task.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, in the back of your mind, you're like, oh no, I've got to do that.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes I can minimize things like that.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I'll push it down because I'm so focused on new, new, new that I that then the everything's coming into the sausage machine, but it's not being the sausages are all not being made correctly, you know, when they're coming out the other end.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_01: So it's really, really important, isn't it, to have those systems and processes in place.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_01: I had a really interesting chat with a chap called Warren Shute.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, he's a um a financial planner, he's a coach, he trains other financial planners now on a 36-month program around how to implement you know really good systems and processes into a financial planning business.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_01: He's got seven staff.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_01: There's him, he's the pretty much the sole practitioner.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_01: He built this business, Lexington.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_01: He turns over a million pounds on his own as a financial planner with a very small team.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_01: Now, from his perspective, it's all about processes and systems.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_01: And he's echoing what you've just said, making sure that you are getting everything done in the correct way at the right time and moving through the process, like a tick sheet almost of things that you need to actually do.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_01: I'll be interested to understand how Daniel deals with that because in recruitment, when you take a job from somebody, you go through like a job profile, for instance.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_01: There are certain things that you ask to make sure how you know fillable that vacancy might well actually be.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_01: Or on the flip side of it, you know, how good is that candidate in respect to me being able to place them?
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_01: Are they in the right space mind mentally to actually leave their company and join another one?
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_01: So you go through like tick sheets there because in recruitment, you don't make any money unless you make a placement, unless you're working on a retained basis, which most recruitment companies aren't, is contingency.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_01: So the mindset about making sure that you're de-risking every situation is a really good skill set and trait to have, I think, when moving into financial planning.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_01: Not only from making sure you're doing the right things in the right way, but also from a compliance perspective and you're not breaking any rules, right?
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_00: As soon as you go out of process, everything just gets thrown in the air.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_00: And you you could end up doubling, tripling your workload.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_00: If you miss something, have to go back and change everything, then the the rule room for error just goes up exponentially.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_00: So if you just take a little bit of extra time each time, nailing every point that you need to, then it will save you an awful lot of time when you get there.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_00: And another one that's important with with mindset is if there's a task that you don't really want to do that has been on your list on your diary for the last 21 days, because you just keep moving it over every time.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_00: I'm guilty of it myself sometimes.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not perfect, but I know when I'm doing it.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_00: I try to avoid it as much as I can.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_00: Is if you just look at that and do it, then that saves you 21 days of continuously thinking about that task, but not doing it.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's so much easier just to do it and get it out of the way.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_01: There's a reason why we don't do it, isn't there?
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_01: And it's about establishing why, you know, what it's that fear of like the unknown.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_01: Perhaps it's a task that you don't know really how to approach it.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like Jordan B.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_01: Peterson, I remember, he said it's like you'll look at a pile of paper on your desk and there may as well be snakes all over it.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_01: And every time you put your hand in there, it's like it's like, I'm not gonna go to that, I'm not gonna look at that pile because there's snakes all over it.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_01: So it's about sort of having the courage, isn't it, to actually look at that task and as you say, just start it.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_01: Because once you've started it, the task you think that you've built up in your mind is gonna take hours and hours and hours.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes it takes like an hour, right?
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that's the case nearly every time, isn't it?
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's never as bad as you think it's gonna be.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_00: So instead of taking up your mind space thinking about it, and then in the future taking up your time by doing it, just do it.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think some, you know, do you think the approach to some of those tasks that might well need a little bit more time, you know, these bigger rocks to smash, do you think there is logic in putting that at the beginning of the day or the end of the day or the middle of the day, or carving out time on a specific day to do those types of tasks?
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_01: How would you approach those tasks that are a bit more time consuming or maybe need a bit more mental strength?
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_00: So I there are different approaches to this, but some training on this by um independent trainers before.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_00: And a really useful way is to look at something, a nice, quick, easy win first thing.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_01: Do that, make yourself feel good, then switch everything off and do the to smash the smash the easy one first of all, get that feeling of like success and win, get that tick on your tick sheet, and then hopefully that gives you the momentum because it's that mindset of like get started, right?
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, get started, accomplish something.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's similar to the make your bed in the morning or tidy up your sock drawer on the way out or whatever.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_00: You've you've made a few little wins along the way.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_00: Open your desk, right?
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_00: What what's my to-do list today?
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's a nice, quick, easy win, and that's productive.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_00: Get that done.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_00: Then look at the thing you really don't want to do and get that done.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_01: These things start from the day, these things start for me from the time I open my eyes.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_01: So the first thing I do when I open my eyes is I go into gratitude, right?
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_01: I start thinking about all the things I'm grateful for.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_01: I'm you know, you know, I sit down, you know, I get out of bed, my feet touch the ground, I'm grateful for my legs, I'm grateful for my eyes when they open, the roof over my head, go in, give my daughter a kiss, she's in bed, grateful for my daughter, look at my wife, fantastic, she's next to me, she's alive.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we've got a lovely little house, little family, got my little puppy at the moment.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_01: I go in, I get all my vitamins out, I get all those out, and I take those.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_01: I have my smoothie, which is full of all my nutrients, and I absolutely get that down me.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_01: That's a win.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_01: There's so many little wins, and then I get, you know, my car, drive to the park and ride.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_01: I run from the park and ride in Bristol.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to go to my door in the office, so I make it a little bit tougher, so I have a little run in.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_01: And by the time I've got to my desk, I've had loads of wins.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_01: I feel ready for the day.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_01: I feel energized.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I live.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_00: You've already got our winning momentum, haven't you, from that point of view?
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's about it's, you know, it's it's not like I'm gonna sit at my desk and then I'm gonna get motivated.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_01: You can get motivated two, three hours before you've even sat at your desk.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_01: You can have those wins two to three hours before you've even sat at your desk.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_01: So when you're ready to go, your mindset's in the right place.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I think often we just think, oh, I'll get up and I'll slug on through, stick a coffee down my throat, grab a jet, you know, a pasty from Greg's or whatever, and I'll sit at my desk and then I'll get started.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_01: But the problem is it takes an hour then to get started, you know, because you're sluggish.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_00: And it's it's just nice to do things that aren't work-related before you start work.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_00: Because then from a mind point of view, you you your day and your reason for waking up isn't all about work and tasks.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's you you woke up to do something you enjoy doing, and then you know, then it's not a have to work, it's a get-to-work, you know, and with with that, it's it's a very different mindset, but it it makes the whole thing a joy today.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_01: You know, let's not let's not ignore the fact that when you become a financial advisor or a financial planner, especially when you're self-employed, okay, and perhaps there isn't a client bank that's going to take up all your time that's given to you, there is gonna be times a lot of your time, when we talk about what you think is a lot of your time, should be dedicated to new business development, especially on in the early stages of your career, right?
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_01: So, first off, how much of somebody's time do you think in an early stage financial planning position should be dedicated to new business?
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_00: Well, nearly all of it.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_01: There we go.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, 90%.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_01: So we should agree, really, that anybody getting into a financial planner role should have the mindset that you are going to be a business developer.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's it's it's absolutely you that the the advice and the planning and all the technical stuff doesn't even start without building client relationships and getting them to sit down with you in the first place.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why the role is so niche and different, because you you have to be good technically, you have to have uh the interpersonal skills to be able to um to be able to show that to individuals, but you've got to get them as well.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_00: So that element is the is the sales part because you've you've got to find them.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_00: Now we plug that gap a little bit by providing the opportunities, but at the end of the day, there still has to be a foot forward put by the individual, and they have to be prepared to do that and find it.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_00: So part of the the process we work with before they start, we go through right, what can you do now leading into your start date to start building up some traction, you know, discussing with local accountants and law firms and introducing yourself.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_00: And that should be the vast majority of your time at this at the starting point, get into businesses and explain who you are and that sort of thing.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_00: But it's exciting, you know, you're starting your own little entrepreneurial venture, and not only do you get to use the skills you've trained for, you also get to have a really good go at learning about business, which is actually important for when you are sitting down with clients, especially business owners, because you can relate to them a lot better having gone through that process.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_01: Cool.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_01: Love it.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_01: Good.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_01: We're in the mindset that if you're going to become a financial planner, you need to be somebody that's going to be going out there, speaking to people and drumming up business and generating business.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_01: Unfortunately, unless you've got an insane lead generation uh system in place, it's all not going to fall on your lap.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_01: You're going to have to go out there and win those new clients.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: But the thing is, if you're putting yourself outside of your comfort zone, shouldn't be outside of your comfort zone.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_01: It should be your comfort zone.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_01: You should be, you know, yeah.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_01: Look, business development is uncomfortable, but lean into it.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's actually once you get going and start to meet people, it's amazing and you start to have amazing conversations with people and you learn so much about the struggles and the problems that other people are going through.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_01: And as an entrepreneur, you should be the mindset, I want to fix this person's problems.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_01: I want to make them their lives better.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_01: I want to add value to that person's business.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_01: So for example, you mentioned about accountants, uh, solicitors who are talking to clients that perhaps are in situations where tax money is coming up, maybe inheritance, all those typical types of things.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_01: So becoming knowledgeable becomes that go-to person that can go back and forth with that accountant asking questions.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_01: You learn from the accountant, that accountant learns from you, that kind of mentality.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_01: That should be massively exciting.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, you might not win client after client after client in week one, two, three, month one, two, three.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_01: But what you're building is a relationship, right?
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_01: And that's the most important thing, the relationship.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_01: So when it comes to a client being passed across to you, or the other way around, you start passing clients to other people.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_01: Because why should someone pass you a client if you're not passing them business, right?
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_01: That's some of the things there.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's like you're building those relationships.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I think people feel like it's almost supposed to be transactional business development.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_01: It should be transactional.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_01: I phone somebody, I get um, I get something.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't really quite work like that, would you say?
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's it's it's a bit softer than that.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_00: Uh it certainly is in this role.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's you need a few touch points where you can start to showcase what your knowledge and value is, and it it that sort of thing doesn't happen overnight, absolutely.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um but for for new people coming in, it's you've got to remember that they are at the start of an exponential curve.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_00: But the exponential curve mathematically is flat for quite a while, and then it just goes.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_00: And if you think of it that way, every effort that they're making with that, with the local community or even a conversation at a barbecue, oh I'll do that.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_00: You you know, three months later, somebody could ring me, spoke to you at a barbecue.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, can you help me with this?
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just little things like that that can have a profound effect in in the long run, and you don't really realize the the effects of it.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_00: But no, you you can't just knock on somebody's door, figuratively speaking.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_00: You definitely can't knock on somebody's door.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, if the FCA is watching this, you certainly cannot.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, you can't just turn up somewhere and expect a meeting the next day.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_00: It takes a while until referrals start coming in, and then you can't because there's that's trust has been built already through a third party.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_01: So let's you know, let's look at somebody who's like they're thinking about going self-employed, maybe they've just started self-employed, maybe they're struggling a little bit around generating clients.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_01: You know, what would be a good approach?
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_01: You mentioned accountant solicitors, so that's professional introducers, yeah, trying to build professional introducer network.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_01: You hear about breakfast club networking events, you hear about lead generation through LinkedIn and pay-per-click and social campaigns.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_01: You've got people setting up their Instagram accounts and becoming expert coaches and giving free financial education.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_01: There's lots of these different things that someone can invest their energy and time in, but they only have a small amount of energy and time, and they need to invest that wisely when it comes to business development.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_01: So, what do you think in your infinite wisdom and experience would be a good use of your time when it comes to business development?
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_00: So I focused quite heavily on my my digital footprint early on.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that's something I help all the other guys with when they when they come through.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, because that's that's stuff you can get on with straight away.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_00: You know, a Google listing, reviews from existing clients is is quite easy to attain, and the the the impact that has is is rather profound, to be honest.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_00: So uh that's what I focused on, and that works really, really well.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_00: And then once you get some existing clients, you can build on on the network that that they have and an offer.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_00: And that to me, keeping it relatively simple, uh, and then within the firm, obviously we have um a large client bank anyway that they can tap into, and then with lots of legacy stuff that that's gone quiet that needs attention.
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_00: So all these things they can do to quite proactively, and as you as we've already alluded to, as long as the mindset's there and the ability to just do it rather than thinking too much about it, then all those things combined can work quite well.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_01: It's interesting you said about the digital footprint because I think that's a really excellent way to set yourself up.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_01: Things like the getting in getting those Google reviews in.
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_01: Reviews are really powerful.
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_01: They're powerful if you're A, you're asking for reviews, you're getting them on your website, or you're getting them on your page, or you're getting them on vouched for.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_01: Do you use things like vouched for, those types of sites?
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_01: Have you ever used those?
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think that's a good idea?
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_00: I don't.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_00: However, I do understand the merits of it.
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_00: I made the decision to focus narrowly on one platform, which was Google.
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because I wanted to focus that rather than diluting my efforts across multiple platforms.
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_00: So I focused on that and got myself to a point where I have the most five-star reviews in my local area, and that's worked really well.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_00: Plus, the likelihood of somebody taking Google away from me is a lot lower than you know, if I put everything into a third-party platform that I have little control over, then I made the decision to not bother with that.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_00: But I know people who have had great success with that, and they get in the Times top advisors and uh through doing that.
• 49:49
  SPEAKER_00: And it yeah, I don't begrudge it whatsoever.
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's probably a great thing.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_00: I just made the decision to stick to what I was on until I was happy before I branched out further.
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's a really good point, actually.
• 50:01
  SPEAKER_01: Again, it's about how much of your time and energy can you spend on something.
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_01: You saw the value in something like Google because you felt that something like that will be there longer than maybe something which is quite new.
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_01: So if that all of a sudden shut down, all your reviews are gone, you know, that's uh that's a scary prospect.
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's a bit like LinkedIn.
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_01: You look at LinkedIn and I use LinkedIn as a social media platform.
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_01: That's my main social media platform.
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_01: I'm in recruitment, talent acquisition.
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_01: So for me, there's lots of people that are on there.
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's also a hell of a networking tool.
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, like uh advisors do not utilize LinkedIn anywhere near as much as they should.
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_01: We're talking about building professionally introduced relationships.
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_01: LinkedIn's building professional relationships on steroids.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you don't have to go and sit in a meeting face to face once a month to build relationships.
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_01: You can you can reach out to a hundred people in a message um in one day if you wanted to.
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_01: You could link them down to a lovely article that you've written for the FT to show them, you know, your merit and your worth.
• 50:57
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you can show them your Google, Google reviews.
• 51:01
  SPEAKER_01: You can put content out which shows who you are, what you do, and how you're adding value to what they do as well.
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_01: And but the thing is with LinkedIn, the algorithm changes.
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_01: So all of a sudden I invest heavily in video, and that was being promoted.
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_01: And then all of a sudden they say, Well, we don't want to promote video anymore anymore.
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_01: So we'll push that down a little bit.
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna promote what we want you to promote, which is pictures and images or what you're or or written content, or we've just released an article's uh newsletter, so we want you to use that.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_01: So it's kind of like you are constantly fighting algorithms and trying to work out what's going on.
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_01: Google changes, obviously, but it doesn't change all the time.
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and you've got an element of control on it.
• 51:38
  SPEAKER_01: The thing with Google, though, right, and I found this, I don't Google anywhere near as much as I used to.
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_01: Neither do I.
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_01: So I think Google, I think it's changing.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think people are searching for that information so much on Google.
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_01: I love the fact that they've bought YouTube.
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm investing now in my YouTube channel, so I'm building YouTube, YouTube content out because if you search Google, actually video comes up as top now.
• 52:01
  SPEAKER_01: So if you get if they're searching specific types of questions and YouTube, someone hasn't dominated those questions or that niche on YouTube, it's wide open.
• 52:08
  SPEAKER_01: So things like financial planning, career education, nobody's doing it.
• 52:12
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm gonna dominate that.
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_00: Good luck to you as well.
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_00: So um you yeah, you're absolutely right.
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_00: The problem with putting yourself on platforms is that the the digital landscape changes so quickly that you've you've you've just got to turn at some point.
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_00: And and like you say, with AI improvements and uh chat GPT being used more as a tool, for example, then it's gonna be the traffic directed towards straight Google search, I would expect is probably gonna go down.
• 52:43
  SPEAKER_00: So there's gonna need to be a move uh to a platform that's more relevant, which two years later will be out of date as well.
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_00: And then you've just got to keep going.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_00: It's another ending um relentless march, isn't it?
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_01: I think, well, that's the thing.
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I think what people need to understand around marketing, right, is not it's not like, oh, I've built a website, therefore I'm gonna be found.
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's continual nurturing of your website, it's continued nurturing of your social media, it's continued nurturing of your Google reviews, it's it's it's constant.
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_01: It has to be part of your process.
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_01: If you're gonna lean into marketing, if you're gonna lean into video, if you're gonna lean into podcasting, whatever it is that you create, you have to be consistent with it.
• 53:19
  SPEAKER_01: You have to keep on doing it and you have to move with the times because things do change.
• 53:23
  SPEAKER_01: But if you can build that into your habit process and it becomes part of your routine and it doesn't take too much of your time, because sometimes people can go, oh, I've got to I've got to have a social media Instagram page.
• 53:34
  SPEAKER_01: That's the thing that's gonna make me loads of money because I see other people doing it.
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_01: They don't see the fact that is it making them money, they just think it's making them money because they're seeing somebody talking about something that they do, therefore they feel indifferent, and they're like, oh my god, they're doing it, they must be dominating, therefore I should do it.
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas actually it's like it's not really quite like that, you know.
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_01: You've just got to keep on nurturing the things that you're doing.
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_01: Because your skill set that you lent into was copywriting, right?
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_01: Content creation, the written word.
• 54:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so so writing's one of my uh you know, favorite things to do.
• 54:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's one of my biggest passions.
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_00: So I've I I have had a speech writing business previously.
• 54:14
  SPEAKER_00: Uh my work as a financial planner to took over in the end.
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_00: So it was a side hustle for a long time, uh, due to a creative, it was a creative hobby that I turned into a small business, but I've I've I've since stopped doing that.
• 54:29
  SPEAKER_00: But I've always loved writing, so I use that to you know generate articles, provide content for existing clients to learn more about the financial landscape and things like that.
• 54:43
  SPEAKER_00: And as as well, which is a really good uh tip for new advisors coming in, is to is to you know, if you think or you come across something in a case that is interesting and should be shared, or you feel strongly about something that's going on in the marketplace, write it down, send it to FT Advisor.
• 55:00
  SPEAKER_00: They'll, you know, if they're more than welcome into to receive opinion pieces.
• 55:06
  SPEAKER_00: I've you know, I've done uh had three or four published by them.
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_00: And whilst nobody's gonna look read that FT Advisor and ring you and say, I need your services, if they look you up and you're producing content for an established publication like that, then it's only gonna help with how you come across to the to the wider world.
• 55:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's your personal brand, isn't it?
• 55:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it is, yeah, absolutely.
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_00: And you're absolutely sparkling.
• 55:32
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think very much about the personal brand to to to some extent.
• 55:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's interesting because you know what you've just said there about writing, you know, if you if it's something you feel strongly about or you've seen something and you have an opinion on it, then yeah, write it down.
• 55:43
  SPEAKER_01: Put it into you know 800, 1,200 words.
• 55:46
  SPEAKER_01: A, it's great to get it down anyway.
• 55:47
  SPEAKER_01: It's therapeutic writing.
• 55:49
  SPEAKER_01: I do get a bit anxious when I have to put pen to paper.
• 55:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but when I do, I I find it really, really, really benefit.
• 55:55
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I and I really enjoy it and it really kind of hammers in the point of my thinking.
• 55:58
  SPEAKER_01: But you're absolutely right.
• 56:00
  SPEAKER_01: If you start to build those relationships with Citywire or FT or you know, IFA magazine or financial planning today, find out who the P, you know, find out who some of the uh some of the journalists are, the editors or whatever.
• 56:13
  SPEAKER_01: Build that connection and then you've got your instant route in because they're looking for content.
• 56:17
  SPEAKER_01: They're looking for like Yeah.
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_01: You might you're not gonna get paid for it.
• 56:21
  SPEAKER_01: You're not gonna get paid for it.
• 56:23
  SPEAKER_01: But what you can do is all of a sudden say on your website, as featured in the FT, as featured in IFA magazine, as featured in Financial Planning Today, you know, you can even work, you know, lean into um PR companies for the BBC, for example.
• 56:37
  SPEAKER_01: So all of a sudden you get quoted on um, you know, a BBC uh article on their website.
• 56:44
  SPEAKER_01: And all of a sudden you can say, as featured on the BBC, you know?
• 56:46
  SPEAKER_01: So when you see people on their website having that, it's it's a great way to kind of then build that um authenticity, well, not authenticity, but authority, that trust.
• 56:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I'm going through that at the moment.
• 56:57
  SPEAKER_01: So when I my, like I said, I'm I told you before we started, I've got a financial planner uh life academy coming out.
• 57:02
  SPEAKER_01: So for me, it's about raising awareness of this academy that we're gonna be training and developing administrators, power planners, mortgage and protection advisors, and financial planners.
• 57:10
  SPEAKER_01: So for me, I've got to get that out there.
• 57:12
  SPEAKER_01: I've got to get it seen.
• 57:13
  SPEAKER_01: So I will be leaning into those publications because my audience that I want to build uh authenticity and validation with are financial planning decision makers within companies like yourself, for instance.
• 57:23
  SPEAKER_01: I want you to know that I'm trying to solve a problem which you're experiencing, which is a financial advice gap by trying to fix the financial advisor gap.
• 57:31
  SPEAKER_01: So if I've got good passion around it, I've I'm solving problems, I need to write about it, I need to communicate it.
• 57:37
  SPEAKER_01: And these people want to hear about it because it's a massive pain point.
• 57:40
  SPEAKER_01: So there, I'm gonna create content, videos, I'm gonna pop it out there, I'm gonna ask them to like it, comment, share it, put it in their magazines, put it in their articles, and it's gonna have a profoundly great effect on me.
• 57:50
  SPEAKER_01: Am I gonna be paid for that?
• 57:51
  SPEAKER_01: No, I'm not.
• 57:52
  SPEAKER_01: Am I gonna be paid for it in the future?
• 57:54
  SPEAKER_01: Damn right I am.
• 57:54
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's got I'm gonna reap the benefits of that once my brand becomes stronger and stronger and stronger.
• 57:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I get seen as somebody who wants to help and not hinder the financial planning profession.
• 58:04
  SPEAKER_01: How I want to change the landscape of recruitment and make your life easier when it comes to attracting top talent to your business, for example.
• 58:11
  SPEAKER_01: So you've got to kind of get yourself up there and be seen.
• 58:13
  SPEAKER_01: There's a really good book, isn't there?
• 58:14
  SPEAKER_01: Uh is it Dan Priestley or uh key person of influence?
• 58:18
  SPEAKER_01: Have you read that one?
• 58:19
  SPEAKER_00: I haven't thought.
• 58:21
  SPEAKER_01: Give it a go, give it a listen.
• 58:22
  SPEAKER_01: And anybody listening to this podcast, I wax lyrical about it all the time.
• 58:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's about establishing yourself as a key person of influence within a specific sector.
• 58:28
  SPEAKER_01: So it goes back into this business development, right?
• 58:30
  SPEAKER_01: If you're going out and you're working with accountants and solicitors, as are every other financial planning company.
• 58:36
  SPEAKER_01: If you're going out and you're looking at other networks where your clients or target clients might want to hang out, there might be a niche.
• 58:42
  SPEAKER_01: So let's say, for example, e-commerce.
• 58:44
  SPEAKER_01: I spoke to a financial advisor who works for he worked for Amazon for years, helping shops on Amazon.
• 58:50
  SPEAKER_01: So these e-commerce shops, how they can sell more, how they can position their products better and all of that.
• 58:55
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, like over time, he built relationships with some of the best e-commerce shops on Amazon.
• 59:00
  SPEAKER_01: So now he's establishing himself as an expert when it comes to finance and financial planning for e-commerce businesses and specifically targeting Amazon businesses because he knows it, right?
• 59:12
  SPEAKER_01: So he's become this key person of influence within that sphere.
• 59:15
  SPEAKER_01: So within that niche, he's known then as the financial planner to Amazon stores.
• 59:22
  SPEAKER_01: And it's kind of like that's what the book teaches you is how to raise your profile, build authentic, but build um connection, and then establish yourself as that thought leader or expert within that specific sector.
• 59:32
  SPEAKER_01: It could be somebody that focuses on computers, sorry, computer games.
• 59:35
  SPEAKER_01: So the gaming community, all of a sudden they're earning loads of money.
• 59:37
  SPEAKER_01: YouTubers, for example, you know, if you're not in their sphere talking to them and providing value to them, how are you going to be found?
• 59:46
  SPEAKER_01: And that's a great way to niche down.
• 59:47
  SPEAKER_01: Have you ever niched down?
• 59:49
  SPEAKER_01: Or do you, you know, have you ever looked at a niche?
• 59:51
  SPEAKER_01: Has that been part of your strategy when it comes to business development?
• 59:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I have been, I do quite a lot with uh mindfulness and money and the relationship, the relationship between the two.
• 1:00:03
  SPEAKER_00: Now, I don't broadcast that too much because it's still early days in the mindfulness world.
• 1:00:11
  SPEAKER_00: But when I pick up with new clients that that could really be of assistance and they'll be open to it, then that that's that's where I'd do some different stuff.
• 1:00:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I've got something really exciting coming up on that front, but um I can't say anything.
• 1:00:26
  SPEAKER_00: But we'll we'll catch back up about that later.
• 1:00:30
  SPEAKER_01: I think you're spot on there though.
• 1:00:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um around mindfulness and money is such a great connection.
• 1:00:34
  SPEAKER_01: I think you know, um, money beliefs, the trauma associated with money, how we think about money, our money mindsets really do dictate how we actually feel.
• 1:00:42
  SPEAKER_01: I went through it recently.
• 1:00:43
  SPEAKER_01: It's a great book, uh, Peter Comalafe.
• 1:00:46
  SPEAKER_01: He's um uh hosted The Conversation of Money.
• 1:00:48
  SPEAKER_01: He's a financial ex-financial planner, turned into financial coach.
• 1:00:51
  SPEAKER_01: I love these financial coaches that are out there, especially the ones that have been financial planners.
• 1:00:56
  SPEAKER_01: So that non-regulated side where they're giving that coaching advice and just getting people's money mindsets right.
• 1:01:01
  SPEAKER_01: Catherine Morgan, for example, teaches that to financial planners how to position yourself more as a mindful coach and to look into money beliefs and money mindsets and how that intertwines in the financial planning process.
• 1:01:12
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's fantastic.
• 1:01:13
  SPEAKER_01: And it's such an such a good area because money causes stress, right?
• 1:01:17
  SPEAKER_01: It causes anxiety, it can cause depression.
• 1:01:19
  SPEAKER_01: So some people it can kill them, you know, it can have a really negative effect on their life, right?
• 1:01:23
  SPEAKER_01: So I think you're absolutely on the money there.
• 1:01:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I look bird's eye at the financial planning profession.
• 1:01:28
  SPEAKER_01: I look at it even in the USA because I like to look over there to see what they're doing.
• 1:01:33
  SPEAKER_01: And that mindset around money is such a big thing.
• 1:01:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's such a big thing, and the and and the well-being associated to it, even to the point of physical fitness, can you intertwine physical fitness, uh, spiritual, you know, spirituality, physical fitness, and mindset into money?
• 1:01:48
  SPEAKER_01: And then because it kind of then gives you, doesn't it, a good talking point?
• 1:01:52
  SPEAKER_01: Because they're all kind of areas where people want to improve.
• 1:01:55
  SPEAKER_01: And then when it comes to then linking into those niches, then you know, podcast.
• 1:01:59
  SPEAKER_01: I I I watched a really good podcast recently, financial planner in the USA, partnering up with a relationship therapist, one and two relationships fail, marriages.
• 1:02:11
  SPEAKER_01: When marriages fail, often it can be associated with money.
• 1:02:15
  SPEAKER_01: When money, when marriages and divorce happens, there's issues around money, right?
• 1:02:20
  SPEAKER_01: So it's kind of like what they do on their podcast is they talk about the solutions to improving relationships and getting couples talking about money.
• 1:02:28
  SPEAKER_01: A, with an insight that it might actually save some marriages.
• 1:02:33
  SPEAKER_01: But B, it also prepares people for if they do make the decision to divorce, of how they should approach it in the right way to ensure that from a financial perspective, they're not subject to things like financial abuse or being misled, and they're getting what they should have, and things like pensions rules and all those typical types of things that are associated to things when when people break up.
• 1:02:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I saw that podcast and I saw the way they did it, and I just thought that was such an awesome way of niching down, partnering with somebody else in another environment, and then you become the financial advisor to like the therapy section.
• 1:03:08
  SPEAKER_01: And then all of a sudden, you've got to reach out to what, a hundred therapists in the UK, say this is what I do.
• 1:03:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, would you like to come on my podcast?
• 1:03:16
  SPEAKER_01: And then you've got them all coming on your podcast, talking about specific things around therapy or mindfulness or whatever it actually is, but then you're in their mind when it comes to anybody that has issues around money.
• 1:03:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I want someone to do that on the podcast.
• 1:03:29
  SPEAKER_01: I want people someone to partner with therapists, uh counselors, and make that a podcast because I think it would absolutely dominate in the B2B sector.
• 1:03:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I agree.
• 1:03:41
  SPEAKER_01: Come to me if you want to set that up, mate.
• 1:03:44
  SPEAKER_00: I knew you were going there with that.
• 1:03:47
  SPEAKER_01: Always closing.
• 1:03:50
  SPEAKER_01: Always you've always been closing ABC's in it, always be closing.
• 1:03:54
  SPEAKER_01: So listen, it's been lovely talking to you.
• 1:03:57
  SPEAKER_01: Is there anything at all that you feel that we haven't covered today where if we're looking at somebody within their early part of their career, whether they're employees, whether they're self-employed, whatever, is there anything else at all that you think would be real valuable to hear from yourself and maybe help them uh navigate this quite tricky year of being a financial planner when you first start, for instance?
• 1:04:19
  SPEAKER_00: It it is.
• 1:04:20
  SPEAKER_00: It has been a tricky couple of years.
• 1:04:22
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, in fact, it's been a roller coaster the last five, let's be honest.
• 1:04:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um but it's just too many that sometimes you new advisors, younger advisors, or less experienced advisors can put a lot of pressure on themselves based on something that's completely out of their control.
• 1:04:44
  SPEAKER_00: And that is the wider economic environment, how clients are feeling about the current situation and when they watch the news and all that sort of thing.
• 1:04:55
  SPEAKER_00: It to get in your own head too much about something that's completely out of your control can end up leading you to not doing what is completely in your control.
• 1:05:06
  SPEAKER_00: And that's educating and managing these people through this process because that is that is what the job is.
• 1:05:14
  SPEAKER_00: But if you catastrophize over things you you can't change, then the things you can change are going to be very difficult because you're not in the right headspace.
• 1:05:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um so it's about detaching from the outside world and remember that you know these what you do for people in the long run, you do phenomenal things for people's lives in the long run.
• 1:05:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um and these ups and downs is just all part of it.
• 1:05:44
  SPEAKER_01: Where do you think that mindset shift and change actually starts?
• 1:05:52
  SPEAKER_01: Because you can tell someone to be that way.
• 1:06:02
  SPEAKER_01: You know, what's where's the where does that responsibility lie?
• 1:06:06
  SPEAKER_01: Look, like four years ago, I gave up drinking alcohol.
• 1:06:09
  SPEAKER_01: I was a wreck, right?
• 1:06:10
  SPEAKER_01: I was drinking alcohol, I was, I was depressed, I was anxious, I was like borderline suicidal for like a long time.
• 1:06:17
  SPEAKER_01: I hated it.
• 1:06:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like I was running a business, I was stressed all the time.
• 1:06:21
  SPEAKER_01: I just felt felt awful.
• 1:06:23
  SPEAKER_01: I gave up drinking alcohol because although it wasn't the problem, it was definitely like pouring petrol on a fire that was already there, right?
• 1:06:31
  SPEAKER_01: 12 months down the line of giving up, I was actually at my worst.
• 1:06:34
  SPEAKER_01: I felt terrible.
• 1:06:34
  SPEAKER_01: So I realized it wasn't alcohol that's a problem, it was my thinking, it wasn't the drinking that was a problem, right?
• 1:06:39
  SPEAKER_01: That was when I really started to look at myself and really got to know myself, my thinking, my shadow self, and really started investing quite heavily in ways to change my brain and to change my thought patterns, that neuroplasticity, the ability to change, right?
• 1:06:57
  SPEAKER_01: Neurologically.
• 1:06:59
  SPEAKER_01: And it took me a good three years, I would say, to get to this point.
• 1:07:04
  SPEAKER_01: And it's an ongoing process.
• 1:07:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's an ongoing process for me.
• 1:07:08
  SPEAKER_01: But I went from a three out of 10 daily to being like an eight to a nine out of ten on a daily basis.
• 1:07:14
  SPEAKER_01: I completely and utterly changed my mindset.
• 1:07:18
  SPEAKER_01: But I had to do it.
• 1:07:20
  SPEAKER_01: I had to go through that process, right?
• 1:07:22
  SPEAKER_01: I had to learn about mindfulness.
• 1:07:23
  SPEAKER_01: No one could spoon feed it for me.
• 1:07:25
  SPEAKER_01: I run a business, I've got over 20 people in my recruitment company, but I've built a process of well-being for them because I feel it's important.
• 1:07:31
  SPEAKER_01: A, I lead by example, I talk about my issues, I talk about mindset, I talk about ups, downs, anxiety, stress, depression, what we do to ourselves, right?
• 1:07:41
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, what our environment does to us, just so we can be mindful and make those changes and recognize it very quickly on.
• 1:07:48
  SPEAKER_01: I create a system where if somebody has depression, anxiety, tough times, I pass them on to a counselor.
• 1:07:54
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not a counselor.
• 1:07:55
  SPEAKER_01: I try to solve their problems so many bloody times, it's like banging your head against a brick wall.
• 1:08:00
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I can listen and I can signpost somebody to get help, but they have to be the ones that want to help themselves, for example.
• 1:08:07
  SPEAKER_01: Now, that's an extreme sort of side of it.
• 1:08:10
  SPEAKER_01: But these problems that people experience, these limiting beliefs that somebody might have, it's down to them to solve it.
• 1:08:15
  SPEAKER_01: Us as managers, us as leaders in our businesses, should coach somebody through it, signpost them and have those milestones in place because we've walked it and we've trodden the path.
• 1:08:29
  SPEAKER_01: And for me, that's hugely important.
• 1:08:31
  SPEAKER_01: As business owners, we have a responsibility to our staff to give them the tools to be better people.
• 1:08:38
  SPEAKER_01: Our staff need to pick those tools up and start implementing them and using them because we can't make somebody do it.
• 1:08:46
  SPEAKER_01: So, one of my advice to anybody is you want to be a success.
• 1:08:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's hard work to be a success, but you've got to put the work in.
• 1:08:52
  SPEAKER_01: And a great place to start is to understand this between your ears.
• 1:08:55
  SPEAKER_01: Like, why am I thinking the way am I the way I'm thinking?
• 1:09:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's all you have.
• 1:09:02
  SPEAKER_00: So it's probably the best place to start.
• 1:09:05
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks.
• 1:09:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:09:06
  SPEAKER_01: It's what you carry around with you all day long, isn't it?
• 1:09:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 1:09:09
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that's it.
• 1:09:10
  SPEAKER_01: Make sure you've got that mindset before you go into something.
• 1:09:13
  SPEAKER_01: Listen, thank you so much for your uh for your time today and just sharing your your your experience, your expertise, your understanding.
• 1:09:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's been very helpful to give people clear perspective of what it's like to start out in financial planning, whether you're employed or whether you're self-employed, and what to look out for as well, I think, in an employer.
• 1:09:31
  SPEAKER_01: Sounds like you're building a really lovely business there and you are supporting people because you've lived, you've got lived experience.
• 1:09:37
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you're not throwing a yellow pages at somebody and saying, get on with it.
• 1:09:41
  SPEAKER_01: You're giving them the reality of the job, but you're also supporting them from a mentoring perspective to make sure, you know, that they are advocates of your business as well and they stay, right?
• 1:09:50
  SPEAKER_01: Because you know, that's massively important.
• 1:09:52
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you so much for sharing on that.
• 1:09:54
  SPEAKER_01: Anything you want to leave anybody with?
• 1:09:57
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you've asked me what I would tell myself the earlier me when I first started.
• 1:10:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, go for it.
• 1:10:07
  SPEAKER_00: So the one thing I learned is if you are in your first year or your first couple of years, it it it really isn't a race.
• 1:10:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I I know that because I thought it was a race race, and it it just wasn't necessary because you will get there, you're all on the same trajectory, and it doesn't have to happen overnight.
• 1:10:31
  SPEAKER_00: So it you know, look after yourself, take care of yourself, and and it will follow if you just keep putting one foot in front of the other.
• 1:10:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's not a race, it's not a race, it's ongoing.
• 1:10:42
  SPEAKER_00: Because there is no there is no there.
• 1:10:46
  SPEAKER_00: People often say, uh, I'll be happy when I get to X, or I'll be when I get to Y, that's when I'll I'll start to take more time off.
• 1:10:54
  SPEAKER_00: But guess what?
• 1:10:55
  SPEAKER_00: When you get to X, you're not happy until you get to Y.
• 1:10:58
  SPEAKER_00: When you get to Y, you'll never be happy until you get to Z.
• 1:11:01
  SPEAKER_00: And it's a never-ending as as long as you're making progress, that's all that's all you need to care about, rather than giving yourself either unobtainable targets or targets that are going to put you in a stressful position.
• 1:11:14
  SPEAKER_01: Adam, I think we can sum that up as progress, not perfection.
• 1:11:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 1:11:19
  SPEAKER_00: Fantastic.
• 1:11:20
  SPEAKER_01: Adam, thank you so much for your time today, and thank you for sharing your journey and your expertise on the Financial Planner Life podcast.
• 1:11:26
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you very much for having me.
• 1:11:27
  SPEAKER_01: Cheers.