Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / College Instructor "Sweetheart" Mows Down Cop-Boyfriend

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College Instructor "Sweetheart" Mows Down Cop-Boyfriend · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Do you love country music?
0:15
Speaker 1: Because I love country music. I'm forever singing to the Twins,
0:21
Speaker 1: will burn that bridge when we get there. They call
0:24
Speaker 1: the thing the rodeo. Man, what a great song this
0:29
Speaker 1: would make. But sadly, it's not just a song. It's
0:33
Speaker 1: not just lyrics to a country music ballad. It's real
0:38
Speaker 1: and it includes a dead body. Love Gone Bad is
0:45
Speaker 1: certainly putting perfume on the pig. I've got to explain.
0:48
Speaker 1: I got to figure out why a Boston business school
0:53
Speaker 1: finance professor is charged with homicide for running of her
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Speaker 1: her cup boyfriend and leaving him to freeze to death
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Speaker 1: in a twenty three degree nor'easter. And sadly, I've got
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Speaker 1: a list of similar transactions as long as my arm
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Speaker 1: I mean. See, Grace, this is Crime Stories. Thank you
1:21
Speaker 1: for being with us here at Fox Nation and series
1:23
Speaker 1: M one eleven. Why not just get a divorce? Why
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Speaker 1: do you have to run him down? And in one case,
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Speaker 1: I've got put it in reverse him back over him.
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Speaker 1: First of all, let's just start with this. Take a
1:39
Speaker 1: listen to our cut one investigative reporter Ted Daniel Boston,
1:44
Speaker 1: twenty five We've been working our sources to find out
1:46
Speaker 1: what may have happened this weekend. The cause of Officer
1:49
Speaker 1: Keith's death has not been officially determined, but this is important.
1:53
Speaker 1: Twenty five Investigates has learned o'keith had a serious head injury.
1:57
Speaker 1: He suffered some sort of trauma. The case is being
2:01
Speaker 1: handled by detectives assigned to the Norfolk County DA's office.
2:04
Speaker 1: Twenty five Investigates has learned they're looking at the possibility
2:08
Speaker 1: o'keef may have been struck by a vehicle. I asked
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Speaker 1: the Norfolk DA's office about that. A spokesperson was unable
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Speaker 1: to comment because of the ongoing investigation. That's pretty standard
2:18
Speaker 1: in a case like this. Officer O'Keefe's body was discovered
2:21
Speaker 1: outside a home on Fairview Road in Canton around six
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Speaker 1: o'clock Saturday morning. The home belongs to another Boston Police officer.
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Speaker 1: It was snowing hard at the time and temperatures were
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Speaker 1: in the teen's overnight. According to the DA's office, o'keith
2:36
Speaker 1: appeared to have been in the cold for some time
2:39
Speaker 1: before I entroduce to you our whole panel, and what
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Speaker 1: a panel it is. Let me get first to dactor
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Speaker 1: Tim Gallagher, the medical examiner for the entire state of Florida.
2:48
Speaker 1: First of all, breathe easy, just a mom and Gallagher
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Speaker 1: because this time it's not Orlando. This time it's not Florida.
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Speaker 1: So doctor Tim GALLAGHERY can find it at pathcaremad dot com.
3:02
Speaker 1: Listen to this University of Florida Medical School Forensic Madison Professor,
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Speaker 1: founder and host of the International Forensic Medicine Death Investigation Conference,
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Speaker 1: which again I just can't say enough to a lot
3:14
Speaker 1: of people. They go you to me, that sounds like,
3:17
Speaker 1: just Jackie, How great would that be? International Forensic Medicine
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Speaker 1: Death Investigation Conference. It just doesn't get much better than that. Okay,
3:27
Speaker 1: doctor Tim Gallagher, did you hear what investigative reporter Ted
3:31
Speaker 1: Daniel Boston twenty five said right there at the end,
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Speaker 1: According to the District Attorney's office, O'Keefe, who was in
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Speaker 1: great health, he is a cop, appear to have been
3:42
Speaker 1: in the cold for some time. What does that mean? Well,
3:47
Speaker 1: that means that when we acquire his body. And again, Nancy,
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Speaker 1: you're absolutely right. I'm in Florida. We don't get a
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Speaker 1: lot of these hypothermia deaths, but occasionally we do sometimes
3:56
Speaker 1: it gets down to about seventy in Miami and we
3:59
Speaker 1: get a few. But Peppy in Gallagher rubbing in, what
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Speaker 1: does that mean? You look at a body and you
4:06
Speaker 1: automatically know he's not just cold. He's been out there
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Speaker 1: a long time, you do, because there's such a thing
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Speaker 1: as rigor mortis, and that's the stiffening of the body.
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Speaker 1: But that happens to everybody no matter what the temperature.
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Speaker 1: It sure does, but it dissipates after a certain amount
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Speaker 1: of time. But if if the body is cold and
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Speaker 1: it's been on the cold for a very long time,
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Speaker 1: it does not dissipate until that body is warmed up again,
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Speaker 1: you know. So if we know that he has been
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Speaker 1: out there for a time period by which the rigor
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Speaker 1: mortis would end, and he still has it, then we
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Speaker 1: know that he has been subject to either refrigeration or
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Speaker 1: cold temperature. You know, I was expecting something completely different.
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Speaker 1: I didn't know you were going to say, daughter, Tim Gallagher,
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Speaker 1: the rigor mortis would have been relaxed. In other words,
4:57
Speaker 1: his limbs would have riggered. Steffen and then and Steffen,
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Speaker 1: I thought you were going to say something like the
5:04
Speaker 1: body was gray, the lips were blue. There was frozen
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Speaker 1: residue from his breath around his nose and mouth. His
5:17
Speaker 1: eyes were frozen shut, His hair was full of ice.
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Speaker 1: His temperature was the same as a beyond air, which
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Speaker 1: would have been in the team's His nails, finger nails,
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Speaker 1: and toe nails were blue. His tongue was frozen. That's
5:41
Speaker 1: what I thought you were gonna say, but you didn't
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Speaker 1: or any of those things true. When you find a
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Speaker 1: frozen body, Okay, take another shot at it. Okay, you know,
5:49
Speaker 1: let me just enjoyed this moment, just for a minute,
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Speaker 1: when a low hey, Jim Elliott, high profile lawyer joining
5:57
Speaker 1: me out of Warner Robbins of counsel or snow dot com.
6:01
Speaker 1: How often do we get to correct a medical examiner
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Speaker 1: or any doctor? Never? Because so can you? And I
6:09
Speaker 1: just enjoy this moment, Jim Elliott. Ye, see the great
6:16
Speaker 1: rivalry between the two professionals drivers. I don't have a rivalry.
6:20
Speaker 1: I know they're smarter than us. I don't know why
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Speaker 1: lawyers think that. But let me just enjoy the moment
6:26
Speaker 1: making doctor Tim Gallagher take a second swing at the ball. Okay,
6:29
Speaker 1: doctor Gallagher hit it. Okay, well, Nancy Um, When a
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Speaker 1: body is subjected to cold temperatures. We'll see sometimes we'll
6:37
Speaker 1: see ice crystals in the hair. Sometimes we'll see that,
6:40
Speaker 1: yet eyes are often frozen, shuts, the tims are frozen,
6:44
Speaker 1: that the muscles are are frozen all the way through.
6:48
Speaker 1: We do see that a lot in Chicago during the
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Speaker 1: u during the winter months or even some of the
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Speaker 1: summer months. But the difficulty with that is the moment
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Speaker 1: the body is defrosted, which often takes about two or
7:01
Speaker 1: three days to do very slowly, it immediately decomposes and
7:05
Speaker 1: we lose a lot of the evidence. You know. Okay, well,
7:08
Speaker 1: I've got to get that through my head. As soon
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Speaker 1: as the body defrosts, which takes two or three days,
7:14
Speaker 1: why does it take two or three days for a
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Speaker 1: body to defrost? Well, we have to do it very
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Speaker 1: slowly because this is the medical examin or defrosting it.
7:22
Speaker 1: You don't mean like in my kitchen sink. No, you
7:24
Speaker 1: wouldn't want to do that. Now, I'm saying, typically something
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Speaker 1: would defrost much faster than three days. So why does
7:30
Speaker 1: it take a human body three days to defrost? Well,
7:34
Speaker 1: because we're trying to do it in a scientific manner.
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Speaker 1: We want it, we take it out of the freezer
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Speaker 1: and put it in a refrigerated area and then raise
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Speaker 1: that temperature a couple of degrees every few hours to
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Speaker 1: defrost it very slowly. We're trying to preserve a lot
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Speaker 1: of the evidence on the bodies, such as bruising or
7:53
Speaker 1: penetrating injuries. What's that a penetrating entry. What's a penetrating entry? Well,
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Speaker 1: a penetrating injury could either be a ballistic type injury
8:01
Speaker 1: from a bullet then being shot, or it could be
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Speaker 1: a sharp force type injury from being stabbed um. And
8:09
Speaker 1: also we have to look out for blunt force injuries,
8:12
Speaker 1: which are someone being assaulted by a blunt weapon such
8:16
Speaker 1: as a baseball bat or the credenza, you know, So
8:22
Speaker 1: we have to be careful about that credenza. You mean
8:25
Speaker 1: the piece of furniture that's behind a desk, that's the one.
8:28
Speaker 1: Why would somebody be hit with a credenza? You need
8:31
Speaker 1: to call your bad cut man. I'm telling you hold
8:33
Speaker 1: on a moment. But let me understand this. So there's
8:36
Speaker 1: a whole science to defrosting a human body. Cheryl, did
8:41
Speaker 1: you know this? Cheryl mccaullough. Absolutely, And what he's saying
8:45
Speaker 1: is so imperative, Nancy, because that was Cheryl. You're not
8:51
Speaker 1: You're not sorry, and we all know you're not sorry.
8:53
Speaker 1: Hold on, wait a minute. Got to Gallagher. There's a
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Speaker 1: whole science to defrosting a body. And from what I'm
9:03
Speaker 1: slowly pulling from you like I'm a dentist, okay, which
9:08
Speaker 1: I'm not pulling it to. You get the body. You
9:14
Speaker 1: start to defrost. At first it's in the freezer, You
9:16
Speaker 1: take it out of a phraser, You put it in
9:18
Speaker 1: a medical gender's refrigerator, and then you very slowly, such
9:21
Speaker 1: as a couple of degrees at a time, you warm
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Speaker 1: up the fridge to the body defrosts very very slowly,
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Speaker 1: so you can't preserve physical evidence on the body such
9:35
Speaker 1: as bruising or penetrating injury such as gunshot, wound or
9:42
Speaker 1: knife or you said credenza. I don't know where that
9:45
Speaker 1: came from, but that too. So doctor Gallagher, you're telling
9:50
Speaker 1: me that if the body heats up too quickly, you
9:53
Speaker 1: lose that evidence because the body immediately decomposes. Yeah, it
9:58
Speaker 1: goes into a very accelerated rate of decomposition. And you
10:02
Speaker 1: have to also remember we're trying to collect foreign DNA
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Speaker 1: from the body as well. You know, so when the
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Speaker 1: skin decomposes, it becomes very liquidy, and we could lose
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Speaker 1: a foreign DNA from the surface of the body too.
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Speaker 1: So that's the rationale between defrosting very slowly and not
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Speaker 1: doing it that way. Time Stories with Nancy Grace So
10:39
Speaker 1: to Jennifer Zikowski joining us investigated freelance journalist. Jennifer, You've
10:44
Speaker 1: been on so many cases. You ever had a frozen
10:46
Speaker 1: body case? I have not. Wait, didn't we do? Was
10:49
Speaker 1: it Shannon Young? In Indiana? We had Graves Shannon Graves,
10:56
Speaker 1: Shannon Graves found in a freezer in Indiana, right, And
11:02
Speaker 1: I was giving a speech there and went down to
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Speaker 1: the hotel restaurant and heard a judge and a lawyer talking.
11:12
Speaker 1: So I went up and said, Hey, what's going on?
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Speaker 1: And they told me about this case and I found
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Speaker 1: out about Shannon Gray's found in a freezer. Yes, you
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Speaker 1: didn't do that one, Jennifer. I could not do that one. Okay,
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Speaker 1: So have you ever had a frozen body? Did you say? No?
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Speaker 1: I have not. Well, I'd write about many living in Wisconsin,
11:32
Speaker 1: but I've never gone into depths on one. Well, I'm
11:36
Speaker 1: glad we're your first Okay, take a listen now to
11:40
Speaker 1: our cut two. This is Ryan Cath NBC ten. The
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Speaker 1: Norfolk District Attorney tells me an autopsy was performed today
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Speaker 1: which will hopefully answer the question of how Officer o'keef died.
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Speaker 1: Right now, I'm told that foul play has not been
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Speaker 1: ruled out. Investigators are also trying to determine why he
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Speaker 1: was apparently outside in the cold for an extended period
12:00
Speaker 1: of time. He stop thinking, waited road for an unresponsive
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Speaker 1: mail party in the stove. First responders found O'Keefe just
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Speaker 1: after six am and took him to Good Samaritan Hospital
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Speaker 1: in Brockton, where the sixteen year veteran of the force
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Speaker 1: was pronounced dead. The DA's office that O'Keefe was outside
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Speaker 1: a property on Fairview Drive and knows the person who
12:21
Speaker 1: owns the home. Property records show the home is owned
12:24
Speaker 1: by someone who has the exact same full name and
12:27
Speaker 1: middle initial as a Boston Police sergeant. The department would
12:30
Speaker 1: not confirm that today. I also checked and asked if
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Speaker 1: any internal affairs cases have been open and if anyone
12:36
Speaker 1: has been placed unadministrative leave. A spokesperson told me the
12:39
Speaker 1: answer to that is no. Wow. So immediately the police
12:44
Speaker 1: department is asked if internal affairs cases have been opened
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Speaker 1: and if anyone has been placed on administrative leave. I
12:51
Speaker 1: find that really interesting. Cheryl McCollum joining me, found a
12:55
Speaker 1: director of Coal Case Research Institute. You can find her
12:58
Speaker 1: at Coalcase Crimes dot org. Cheryl, why would they immediately
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Speaker 1: ask they find this cop dead with some kind of
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Speaker 1: blow to the head and he's frozen. He is frozen
13:11
Speaker 1: through and through. Why would they immediately ask if internal
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Speaker 1: affairs cases have been opened and if anybody's on administrative leave?
13:20
Speaker 1: Because early on they didn't know what happened to him,
13:22
Speaker 1: So they're going to look at You've got a dead
13:25
Speaker 1: body out in front of a sergeant's home, led to
13:28
Speaker 1: the police know and that's the best way to find
13:30
Speaker 1: out what they know. Have y'all started an internal affairs investigation?
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Speaker 1: That means you must be looking at that sergeant that
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Speaker 1: owns the home. If they haven't, then they're not looking
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Speaker 1: at him. Real quick A to b guys, what happened
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Speaker 1: to this victim? John O'Keefe. First of all, when I
13:45
Speaker 1: don't know the answer, I look at the victim. Who
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Speaker 1: is O'Keefe? What do I know? About him. Take a
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Speaker 1: Little Star three reporter Drew cretys Boston twenty five officer
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Speaker 1: O'Keefe visited the Boston twenty five News studios in two
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Speaker 1: thousand fourteen to talk about a fundraiser for his niece
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Speaker 1: and nephew who lost both of their parents. O'Keefe went
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Speaker 1: on to care for those kids following the deaths of
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Speaker 1: his sister to a brain tumor and his brother in
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Speaker 1: law to a heart attack in a matter of months.
14:14
Speaker 1: A steaman released by the O'Keefe family says, quote, people
14:17
Speaker 1: talk about someone who would give you the shirt off
14:19
Speaker 1: their back, but that was truly who John was, and
14:22
Speaker 1: it's heartbreaking for us to suddenly be talking about him
14:26
Speaker 1: in the past. Tense too. Doctor Jen Man guys, you
14:29
Speaker 1: know her well, marriage family therapist, hosts of Couples Therapy
14:33
Speaker 1: and Family Therapy on VH one The Doctor Jen Show,
14:37
Speaker 1: which is awesome on Serious ex sam and she is
14:40
Speaker 1: the author of The Relationship Fix. You can find her
14:43
Speaker 1: at doctor Jen je Nan dot com. Doctor Jen you know,
14:49
Speaker 1: I hear women say all the time there are no
14:51
Speaker 1: good men left. Oh that's not true. I've got one.
14:54
Speaker 1: David Lynch is a great guy and he's taken Jen,
14:57
Speaker 1: so back off. But you got to go myself, so
15:01
Speaker 1: you're safe. Your man is safe with me. Thank you.
15:06
Speaker 1: What did you just hear? What? Drew Carretty said, Boston
15:09
Speaker 1: twenty five. When this guy's niece and nephew lost both
15:16
Speaker 1: of their parents, including his sister, he took the children
15:22
Speaker 1: in and was taking care of them. He's it is said,
15:26
Speaker 1: he would give you the shirt off their back. He
15:29
Speaker 1: sounds like a saint. He sounds like one of the
15:32
Speaker 1: sweetest kind of human beings. Who you know, it was
15:36
Speaker 1: there for children in need, who it takes some responsibility,
15:41
Speaker 1: who is a protector, who's a hero? He sounds like
15:44
Speaker 1: an amazing He was an amazing human being. And doctor
15:48
Speaker 1: Jen just you know, making a donation in the church
15:52
Speaker 1: plate that's one thing, but actually taking the children into
15:56
Speaker 1: your home and agreeing to raise them, that is a
16:00
Speaker 1: lifelong commitment he made absolutely. And also these are children
16:04
Speaker 1: who have been through a terrible loss, and as we know,
16:08
Speaker 1: a lot of the time when children have been through
16:09
Speaker 1: a terrible loss, they have a lot of their own
16:12
Speaker 1: issues that have to be worked out. And so to
16:15
Speaker 1: take that on, especially what a wonderful person, you know,
16:20
Speaker 1: I'm just thinking this through about what happened, and I
16:25
Speaker 1: just made a note It was about can't they tell
16:30
Speaker 1: by looking at him, doctor Tim Gallagher, whether he had
16:34
Speaker 1: a blow to the head or whether he's struck by
16:38
Speaker 1: a car. Can't they look at the imprint on the
16:41
Speaker 1: head and determine that. Well, you certainly can answer a
16:44
Speaker 1: great question. You know. We do have a lot of
16:46
Speaker 1: technology that we use in conjunction with our visual inspection.
16:53
Speaker 1: We take X rays and we can see broken bones
16:57
Speaker 1: from the X rays. We also have something called low docks,
17:02
Speaker 1: a cat scan machine that we can put the entire
17:05
Speaker 1: body through and it'll show us in very good detail
17:10
Speaker 1: the bone structure and all the organ structure. So if
17:12
Speaker 1: there is any damage to the organs such as the
17:15
Speaker 1: lungs or the brain or even the heart, it'll be
17:19
Speaker 1: demonstrated on our lowdocs cat scan. So there are several ways,
17:24
Speaker 1: and we could also look for metal objects in the body,
17:28
Speaker 1: knife tips, blaze of bullets using this technology. So we're
17:34
Speaker 1: very well equipped to find the cause of death in
17:37
Speaker 1: any situation. And in this case, whether he was run
17:41
Speaker 1: over or beaten, whoever did that leaves him out in
17:45
Speaker 1: the snow to freeze dead if he wasn't already dead,
17:49
Speaker 1: So who is this guy? Take a listen to our
17:50
Speaker 1: cut four Boston twenty five, Monday. O'Keefe's family asked for
17:54
Speaker 1: privacy while they came out to look at the spot
17:56
Speaker 1: where he was discovered. It's another tragedy for a family
17:59
Speaker 1: that has already lost a lot. Boston twenty five News
18:03
Speaker 1: learned O'Keefe had adopted his niece and nephew after his
18:06
Speaker 1: sister passed away from cancer in twenty thirteen and his
18:09
Speaker 1: brother in law died from a heart attack shortly after.
18:12
Speaker 1: It's sad, especially where they had so much tragedy in
18:16
Speaker 1: their life already, and an internal memo Boston Police Superintendent
18:19
Speaker 1: and Chief Gregory Long said this police officer O'Keeffe was
18:23
Speaker 1: highly regarded by those he worked with, his supervisors, and
18:26
Speaker 1: all that knew him, both internally and within the communities
18:29
Speaker 1: of Boston that he served. Now we know tonight that
18:31
Speaker 1: the Cannon Police Department here behind us is working with
18:33
Speaker 1: State Police and the Norfolk County District Attorney's Office to
18:37
Speaker 1: get to the bottom of whatever happened. And our eight
18:40
Speaker 1: Boston twenty five the circumstances of how officer John O'Keeffe
18:44
Speaker 1: ended up unresponsive in a snowbank. Still surrounded in uncertainty.
18:48
Speaker 1: Prosecutors say the cause of death was skull fractures, with
18:52
Speaker 1: hypothermia as a contributing factor. The biggest question, though, remains
18:56
Speaker 1: how did it happen? So, when you have a blow
19:00
Speaker 1: to the head, regardless of how you get it, doctor
19:02
Speaker 1: Tim Gallagher, coupled with hypothermia, how do you tell which
19:06
Speaker 1: one caused the death? Well, that's always the question. Answer.
19:10
Speaker 1: You have to triage everything according to your experience, your education.
19:15
Speaker 1: And you're reading just these skulls fractured in a way
19:18
Speaker 1: that whether they're frozen or not, you would have attributed
19:22
Speaker 1: that to the death. Then yes, these skull fractures would
19:26
Speaker 1: have happened before the hypothermia. If the injury doesn't look
19:32
Speaker 1: fatal and they do have the hypothermia, well then reason
19:37
Speaker 1: would stand that the hypothermia caused the death and that
19:40
Speaker 1: the blow to the head was just a contributor. Time
19:56
Speaker 1: Stories with Nancy Grace, Jim Elliott joining US high profile
20:03
Speaker 1: lawyer out of Warner Robins Georgia at Butler Snow dot com.
20:06
Speaker 1: Jim Elliott the reason I am honing in on cause
20:09
Speaker 1: of death cod is because it could become a very
20:14
Speaker 1: very let me just say, sticky legal issue. If someone
20:21
Speaker 1: ran over him or someone hit him in the head,
20:24
Speaker 1: but he didn't die from that, and then he died
20:26
Speaker 1: of hypothermia, that individual could argue I was not the
20:32
Speaker 1: cause of death. I could argue that. I mean, there
20:34
Speaker 1: are ben't even number of factors there. Felony murder, yep,
20:40
Speaker 1: you know the intent of the perpetrator, whoever that may be.
20:47
Speaker 1: And I think there's a big difference in the allegation
20:50
Speaker 1: about being hit by car versus pay head with something.
20:54
Speaker 1: Why because one's clearly intentional, the other arguably could be
20:58
Speaker 1: accidental or good point. Good point, Jim Elliott. See, that's
21:03
Speaker 1: why you go to law school for so many years,
21:05
Speaker 1: because you learn how to part on only words but issues.
21:08
Speaker 1: He's absolutely right, even though dead is dead, can't change
21:12
Speaker 1: that the intent behind hitting somebody with a baseball bat
21:17
Speaker 1: in the head and leaving them, leaving them in the
21:19
Speaker 1: son to die, as opposed to accidentally hitting them, maybe
21:22
Speaker 1: not even knowing you hit somebody and leaving them outside
21:26
Speaker 1: not realizing what you had done, or hitting them on
21:30
Speaker 1: purpose and leaving them there. So Jim Elliott is the
21:34
Speaker 1: high profile lawyer because things just like that that issue
21:37
Speaker 1: he identified on the bar exam Jim Elliott, and in
21:42
Speaker 1: legal exams log exams at school, one of the main
21:46
Speaker 1: things professors look for is whether you can spot issues.
21:51
Speaker 1: If you can't spot an issue, you're no good to anybody.
21:54
Speaker 1: You have to be legally trained to spot every single issue.
21:58
Speaker 1: And Jim, as a matter of fact, to the district
22:00
Speaker 1: Attorney's office as the first place a new lawyer would
22:03
Speaker 1: go is to indictments, where you would read police report
22:07
Speaker 1: after report after report, and you would spot every single
22:11
Speaker 1: conceivable charge and they would be indicted on every single charge,
22:16
Speaker 1: and then that would be handed to a jury appetit
22:18
Speaker 1: jury of twelve to determine which, if any, charges were correct.
22:23
Speaker 1: So is she spotting is a big deal and you
22:26
Speaker 1: just made a very good point, Jim Elliott, looks one
22:30
Speaker 1: of my law students to again enjoy that moment. Okay,
22:33
Speaker 1: so we find this guy out in the cold. Now
22:36
Speaker 1: you've got to figure out who left him there. And
22:40
Speaker 1: as Cheryl McCollum pointed out, the first place they apparently
22:42
Speaker 1: look as at the sergeant whose home he is in
22:46
Speaker 1: front of. Investigators say The couple have been invited to
22:50
Speaker 1: an after party at a home on Fairview Road in
22:53
Speaker 1: Kenton early Saturday morning. After going to several bars, including Waterfall,
22:58
Speaker 1: Court documents say Read decided did not go to the
23:01
Speaker 1: party because she was having stomach issues. Okay to you,
23:04
Speaker 1: Jennifer Sakowski, Who's Karen Reid. Karen Reid is Boston Police
23:10
Speaker 1: officer John O. Keith's girlfriend of approximately two years, and
23:15
Speaker 1: they had been out bar hopping that night in during
23:20
Speaker 1: a northeastern storm, which in Wisconsin we call a blizzard,
23:24
Speaker 1: but it is different because the winds are so much higher,
23:28
Speaker 1: and so they had been bar hopping. Then she said
23:32
Speaker 1: she had a stomach ache. Allegedly said that she had
23:34
Speaker 1: a stomach ache and that's why she didn't attend the
23:38
Speaker 1: party with her boyfriend with the police officer, and said
23:42
Speaker 1: that she dropped tomorrow and not worried later when he
23:47
Speaker 1: had not ever make it to the party. I don't
23:50
Speaker 1: believe he made it to the party. Oh, Okay to
23:54
Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum, forensics expert, founder director of the Coal Case
23:57
Speaker 1: Research Institute. Cheryl McCollum, how many times have I argued
24:01
Speaker 1: to a jury nothing good happens after midnight. Oh at
24:06
Speaker 1: nauseam absolutely, thank you for that. I'm gonna tell you
24:09
Speaker 1: that it's a compliment, but go ahead. Oh it's the
24:11
Speaker 1: truth though, And in our business we see it over
24:14
Speaker 1: and over and over again. The longer you stay after midnight,
24:18
Speaker 1: the more chances there are that something's going to go very,
24:22
Speaker 1: very bad. So she gets a stomach ache and leaves
24:28
Speaker 1: drops him off. He never makes it into the party,
24:31
Speaker 1: according to Jennifer Zakowski, and then he's found dead. I
24:35
Speaker 1: guess where she drops him off, Jennifer. Yes, they didn't
24:41
Speaker 1: say exactly yet exactly how far from you know, maybe
24:44
Speaker 1: the entrance to the party. But yes, and she had
24:49
Speaker 1: allegedly told a friend when they were going to check
24:54
Speaker 1: on him, because by four or thirty in the morning
24:57
Speaker 1: or so, she started to get worried, apparently who that
25:00
Speaker 1: he hadn't shown home. Well, just like all of us,
25:03
Speaker 1: police become suspicious. Take a listen to our cut nine
25:07
Speaker 1: Boston twenty five Prosecutor's a ledge. She dropped off O'Keefe,
25:10
Speaker 1: made a three point turn to reverse the car, rammed
25:13
Speaker 1: into her boyfriend, and then left him for dead. Did
25:16
Speaker 1: she have any idea that she hit him or did
25:19
Speaker 1: she have no idea that she hit him? Boston twenty
25:21
Speaker 1: five News legal analyst Peter Elkan says details revealed during
25:25
Speaker 1: Reid's a Raymond leave more questions than answers. Court documents
25:29
Speaker 1: say she became frantic as she called and texted O'Keefe
25:32
Speaker 1: later that morning and got no response. Prosecutors say two
25:36
Speaker 1: friends returned to the scene with her. One reportedly told
25:39
Speaker 1: authorities she believed Karen was still intoxicated in the morning,
25:43
Speaker 1: and said Reid told her she did not remember last night.
25:47
Speaker 1: The friend also told authorities that Reid said to her quote,
25:50
Speaker 1: I wonder if he is dead. It's snowing. He got
25:54
Speaker 1: hit by a plow. I wonder if he's dead. It's snowing.
25:58
Speaker 1: He got hit by a plow. Wait a minute, wait, wait, wait,
26:02
Speaker 1: wait wait is that Jeffer Szigowski? Is that the girlfriend
26:07
Speaker 1: Karen Reid talking she thinks he got She suggested he
26:12
Speaker 1: got hit by a plow. Yes, that is what the
26:16
Speaker 1: friend was saying. Okay, hold on right there, I mean,
26:18
Speaker 1: how likely is it, everybody jump in Cheryl McCollum, that
26:23
Speaker 1: a snowplow is out at one or two o'clock in
26:26
Speaker 1: the morning, Nancy. They're in the middle of the northeaster.
26:29
Speaker 1: That's about the dumb but an unbelievable amount of snow
26:32
Speaker 1: on that area. I don't think there were any plows
26:34
Speaker 1: out at all. And it also begs the question, what
26:38
Speaker 1: does she think he was doing? Was he rendered motionless
26:43
Speaker 1: in the middle of the street. Why would he stand
26:45
Speaker 1: there and let a snowplow move in fifteen miles an hour?
26:49
Speaker 1: Hit him? What about a Jim Elliott Way would be
26:52
Speaker 1: her immediate go to get hit? Um? Did I hit him?
26:56
Speaker 1: I mean, I find it very hard to believe that
27:00
Speaker 1: she had no knowledge of what we believe happened. And
27:03
Speaker 1: isn't it show Jennifer Sikowski she said something else to
27:07
Speaker 1: the same friend that she told the snowplows story. What
27:11
Speaker 1: did she say? Yes, So she told that friend that
27:15
Speaker 1: she did not remember the night before, which I find
27:18
Speaker 1: very interesting because how does she not remember the night
27:22
Speaker 1: before and what happened with her boyfriend? If she could
27:26
Speaker 1: remember that she had a stomach ache and couldn't go
27:28
Speaker 1: to the party, what did she say following the fatality?
27:33
Speaker 1: Take a listen to our cut twelve This is Diane Show,
27:35
Speaker 1: NBC ten Reid's attorney says she tried to call O'Keefe
27:39
Speaker 1: a number of times, wondering where he was, and had
27:42
Speaker 1: no idea anything had happened to him. This was not
27:45
Speaker 1: some random stranger. This was my client's boyfriend, somebody with
27:50
Speaker 1: whom she was in love. Prosecutors they read and a
27:52
Speaker 1: couple of friends went looking for O'Keefe On Saturday morning.
27:55
Speaker 1: Defended was to his start or the drive and had
27:58
Speaker 1: the other friend miss carry it's following. While driving to
28:01
Speaker 1: the victim's house, the defendant stated, Tomas McCabe, could I
28:04
Speaker 1: have hit him? Did I hit him? Prosecutors say after
28:07
Speaker 1: season reads black Lexus SUV authorities noticed a crack in
28:11
Speaker 1: the right rear tail light. Oh, forensic cabinets right there,
28:15
Speaker 1: the right rear tail light. Okay to you, Jim Elliott,
28:20
Speaker 1: You've done plenty of accident reconstructions. What does that tell you?
28:25
Speaker 1: A crack and the right rear tail lot for Lexus SUV.
28:30
Speaker 1: Clearly you hit something, and I'm sure the forensic investigation
28:35
Speaker 1: will disclose exactly one and maybe perhaps any traces of
28:38
Speaker 1: blood or human tissue or anything of that sort. What
28:42
Speaker 1: is a three point turn in the street? What is that, Nancy,
28:48
Speaker 1: I can explain it. Jump in. If you're part and
28:51
Speaker 1: you're headed north, you're going to bank your car to
28:54
Speaker 1: the right forward. You're going to back up one time,
28:58
Speaker 1: and then you're gonna be able to turn your car
29:00
Speaker 1: to be able to go southbound and go forward again.
29:04
Speaker 1: So you're only backing up one time, and it's usually
29:08
Speaker 1: a good distance in front of where your part. So
29:11
Speaker 1: again my concern is how did he now get in
29:15
Speaker 1: front of her if she left him out of the
29:17
Speaker 1: car for her to not see him when she backed
29:21
Speaker 1: up after moving forwards a good distance. Crime Stories with
29:36
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace, Guys, we are talking about long time police
29:45
Speaker 1: officer John O'Keefe who had just adopted his little niece
29:49
Speaker 1: and nephew after his sister died of cancer and her
29:53
Speaker 1: husband so they died of a heart attack. He's found
29:58
Speaker 1: with a horrible head injury, frozen out in the snow
30:02
Speaker 1: on his way into a cop party at a sergeant's house.
30:07
Speaker 1: If the two year girlfriend Karen Reid is responsible, it
30:13
Speaker 1: wouldn't be the first time a woman plows a man down.
30:18
Speaker 1: Take a listen to our cut twenty one from our
30:21
Speaker 1: Friend's at Discovery Most Evil David agrees to end his affair,
30:29
Speaker 1: but on the night of July twenty fourth, two thousand
30:31
Speaker 1: and two, Clara learns that David and Gale have checked
30:35
Speaker 1: into a hotel. I can't believe it. A sin shot.
30:43
Speaker 1: I started shaking and I started crying. When Clara Harris
30:49
Speaker 1: sees her husband David with his mistress, her jealousy explodes.
30:55
Speaker 1: She attacks him in the hotel parking lot, hitting him
30:59
Speaker 1: head on with her care and running him over several times.
31:06
Speaker 1: As David lies dying on the asphalt, Clara gets out
31:10
Speaker 1: of her car and tells him that she loves him. Okay,
31:14
Speaker 1: well that made it all better. Not only did she
31:17
Speaker 1: run over him, this is where death by Mercedes came
31:20
Speaker 1: from from her, Clara Harris, she did it. She and
31:25
Speaker 1: her husband had twin boys who would then left without
31:28
Speaker 1: a father and a mother because Mommy ran him down
31:31
Speaker 1: in the parking lot of the hotel where he was
31:34
Speaker 1: snugged up with his mistress, who I think was like
31:37
Speaker 1: an office manager. Please just surprise me, just one time, Jackie,
31:41
Speaker 1: one time. So not only does she run him down
31:44
Speaker 1: right there front of God and everybody in the parking
31:47
Speaker 1: lot of the hotel, she then puts it in reverses
31:50
Speaker 1: as she backs over his body, jumps out and says,
31:53
Speaker 1: I love you now die. Okay, nobody can't forget death
31:59
Speaker 1: by saying these. Jim Elliott, we've you've handled a lot
32:03
Speaker 1: of cases. Let me just say, ephemistically, marital discord, what
32:08
Speaker 1: happens in people's minds. Why don't they just get a divorce?
32:13
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, beyond explanation for people like you
32:16
Speaker 1: and me, because it's illogical that that kind of passion
32:21
Speaker 1: turned from love to hate that quickly into that degree.
32:24
Speaker 1: You know, I'm just curious to you, doctor Jim Mann.
32:27
Speaker 1: And first of all, why not just get a divorce?
32:30
Speaker 1: First question? But number two, in this case, they're not
32:34
Speaker 1: even married. They don't have to worry about separating the
32:37
Speaker 1: dishes and custody and the dog and the insurance and
32:42
Speaker 1: the vanguard. They don't have to worry about any of that.
32:44
Speaker 1: They can just get you know what, it's not working, bye,
32:48
Speaker 1: That's all. That's it. So why, Well, these are people
32:51
Speaker 1: with very unhealthy attachments, and a lot of the time
32:55
Speaker 1: someone who is attached in that kind of pathological way
32:59
Speaker 1: thinks that they're like will cease to exist without this
33:01
Speaker 1: other person or their identity is completely hung on this
33:05
Speaker 1: other person, or they feel that this pathological kind of jealousy.
33:10
Speaker 1: If I can't have them, nobody else can to Jennifer Siakowski, Wait,
33:14
Speaker 1: did I hear Cheryl McCollum jump here, Cheryl Nancy? I
33:17
Speaker 1: was just going to say, there's a lot of questions
33:19
Speaker 1: here that we have to know the answer to. And
33:21
Speaker 1: one is going to be, of course, why didn't she
33:24
Speaker 1: go to the party? Really wasn't a stomach ache? Was
33:26
Speaker 1: it something else? Number two? How did no other party
33:30
Speaker 1: goer getting to the party or leaving not see him?
33:34
Speaker 1: Where was his body in relation to that front door?
33:38
Speaker 1: How is he supposed to get home? You say you're
33:41
Speaker 1: not feeling well, you live an hour away, but you
33:43
Speaker 1: drop him off at this party? How is he supposed
33:45
Speaker 1: to get home? Like a lot of this is not
33:48
Speaker 1: making sense to me at all. You know, I'm trying
33:52
Speaker 1: to figure out, Jennifer Sikowski, what was their problem? Do
33:55
Speaker 1: we know the source of her anger? If in fact
33:59
Speaker 1: she did this thing? We don't not that I've seen
34:03
Speaker 1: of what she's biming it non Essentially is that she
34:07
Speaker 1: was in a blackout state and literally doesn't remember anything,
34:11
Speaker 1: But again, she happened to remember that she had a
34:14
Speaker 1: stomach ache, and that tells me that she's she's covering
34:18
Speaker 1: something else up. His injuries were so extensive. I mean
34:23
Speaker 1: he suffered not only a multiple gull fractures, but a
34:27
Speaker 1: two inch laceration to the back of his head, two
34:30
Speaker 1: black eyes, injuries to his forearms, and his clothes holding
34:34
Speaker 1: was covered in blood and vomit. So how do you
34:39
Speaker 1: The only way wouldn't know that you hit someone to
34:44
Speaker 1: that extent is if you were absolutely bombed from alcohol.
34:49
Speaker 1: And this day and age, there's just no excuse for that,
34:52
Speaker 1: especially coming from a professor. It makes no sense. And
34:58
Speaker 1: I'm always surely rubbing them all. Yeah, is that Jim Elliott?
35:01
Speaker 1: I was going to ask you, Jim Malliott, and to
35:03
Speaker 1: Cheryl McCallum. What also amazes me is that how many
35:07
Speaker 1: people hit on purpose or run somebody down by accident,
35:14
Speaker 1: and they drive away and they leave and they leave
35:18
Speaker 1: the person there to die. I mean, what goes through
35:21
Speaker 1: their mind over the next hours as they let the
35:25
Speaker 1: person die and the person could have been saved. It
35:28
Speaker 1: reminds me the first time I covered a case like this,
35:31
Speaker 1: I had plenty of hitting runs of vehicular homicides. I prosecuted,
35:36
Speaker 1: but this name always sticks in my mind. Chantey Mallard. Listen,
35:42
Speaker 1: I are cut eighteen. The police department only a matter
35:46
Speaker 1: of miles away on Mill Street, but she didn't go there.
35:50
Speaker 1: John Petersmith Hospital a street shot down two eighty seven,
35:54
Speaker 1: a hospital Miss Mallard was familiar with, but she didn't
35:58
Speaker 1: go there. Instead, you will hear that she chose to
36:04
Speaker 1: drive home with Greg Biggs still lodged in her car,
36:09
Speaker 1: seriously wounded and bleeding, moaning when they hit a bump,
36:15
Speaker 1: and she drove home to her house at thirty eight
36:18
Speaker 1: forty world larger, and she drove in the garage, and
36:25
Speaker 1: she closed the garage door, and she turned off the car,
36:29
Speaker 1: and she apologized, and he moaned, and he tried to speak,
36:35
Speaker 1: and all she could do was crying and apologize. She
36:38
Speaker 1: told the police, I'm talking about Chante Mallard. She hits
36:43
Speaker 1: the guy that was walking across the street, and instead
36:47
Speaker 1: of going to the police station or the hospital, which
36:49
Speaker 1: was a clear shot. Wasn't a big town, she goes home,
36:53
Speaker 1: pulls into a garage, closes the door and leaves the
36:57
Speaker 1: guy and paled into her winch ill and waits for
37:01
Speaker 1: him to die. I don't get it, Jim Elliott. I mean,
37:06
Speaker 1: I know that's evidence after the fact, which is admissible
37:10
Speaker 1: at trial, but it's damning, of course, certainly. And you know,
37:15
Speaker 1: I think my personal opinion is I think a lot
37:17
Speaker 1: of times when people have those sort of delays, they're drunk,
37:20
Speaker 1: they're drug impaired, whatever, and I think they believe that
37:25
Speaker 1: as time lapses at least that charge against them will
37:29
Speaker 1: go away. So but I mean, hell callous, just trying
37:33
Speaker 1: to figure out why this woman, Karen Reid, according to prosecutors,
37:38
Speaker 1: runs down her boyfriend of two years and leaves him
37:42
Speaker 1: there with a serious head injury to freeze and the
37:45
Speaker 1: snow jump is Cheryl McCallum, drunk, don't make you deaf, Nancy.
37:50
Speaker 1: This would have made an undeniable sound. So not only
37:55
Speaker 1: should she have felt she hit something, she would have
37:58
Speaker 1: absolutely hurt it. You know, she's really beautiful, I mean beautiful,
38:04
Speaker 1: long looks, kind of golden hair, perfect teeth. She is
38:09
Speaker 1: a professor. Where is she a professor? Jennifer Zikowski does?
38:13
Speaker 1: Does she teach finance? Yep? She does at Bentley University.
38:17
Speaker 1: So this is a woman that knows better. It's not
38:21
Speaker 1: as if she is not well versed, and probably the
38:24
Speaker 1: law and much more. We don't know the root of
38:28
Speaker 1: her anger. Jennifer know nothing about it. They've been together
38:31
Speaker 1: two years, she's forty one years old. Did they break
38:34
Speaker 1: off their relationship? Did she want to get married? Had
38:37
Speaker 1: he she What was the source of all her anger?
38:40
Speaker 1: I'm not sure. I think that's going to come out,
38:44
Speaker 1: and I'm gutting police officers. Investigators have a lot more
38:48
Speaker 1: information than we do, talking to friends and looking at
38:52
Speaker 1: surveillance set me have been in the neighborhood. Oh well,
38:55
Speaker 1: that's a good point right there, because guess what, Cheryl McCollum,
38:59
Speaker 1: investigate appear to have footage of the actual incident on
39:05
Speaker 1: guess what a ring doorbell? I love ring doorbells, and
39:08
Speaker 1: this is one of the reasons I love him. What
39:10
Speaker 1: do you think about that, Cheryl? That's going to be
39:13
Speaker 1: a money tree for the prosecution. There's no question about it. Here.
39:16
Speaker 1: It is in real time. You want to know what
39:18
Speaker 1: happened to this man, we can show you, you know.
39:21
Speaker 1: I'm just curious about what was going through her mind.
39:24
Speaker 1: Jim Elliott, you have represented people in the past that
39:27
Speaker 1: do a horrible thing like this, then when an hour
39:31
Speaker 1: later they immediately regret the deed. But under the law,
39:37
Speaker 1: even if they immediately regret the deed one minute later,
39:40
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter. It does not change the intent at
39:44
Speaker 1: the time of the incident. That's right, And this morning
39:48
Speaker 1: is claiming voluntary drunkenness and that's not going to be
39:51
Speaker 1: defends to her for any of several charges. Isn't it true,
39:56
Speaker 1: Jennifer Sikowski that there is some evidence he was hit
40:00
Speaker 1: with a blunt object before he was run over. I mean,
40:03
Speaker 1: I've been thinking about how a tail light and an
40:06
Speaker 1: SUV would have hit him in the head unless he
40:09
Speaker 1: was on his knees right exactly. And to suffer that
40:13
Speaker 1: extensive of injuries, the multiple skull fractures, but the two
40:18
Speaker 1: in flustrations to the back of his head, two black eyes,
40:23
Speaker 1: that just doesn't sit with me, right, and it does
40:27
Speaker 1: sound an indicative of being hit with something fire. All
40:32
Speaker 1: I know is this family, friends and police officers from
40:35
Speaker 1: across the state all converged at Saint Francis Church there
40:42
Speaker 1: in Braintree to remember slain Boston officer John O'Keefe. We
40:51
Speaker 1: want justice. Nancy Grace Crumbs story signing off good