Latest / The Human Factor: Exploring the Intersection of Humanity, Technology, and Transformation / Episode 007: The Vulnerability Advantage: Why Admitting Weakness Makes Organizations Stronger

Transcript

Episode 007: The Vulnerability Advantage: Why Admitting Weakness Makes Organizations Stronger · The Human Factor: Exploring the Intersection of Humanity, Technology, and Transformation

• 0:05
  Picture the scene Fortune 500 board The CEO has just been
• 0:10
  asked about a failed digital transformation initiative that
• 0:13
  cost $12 million. Everyone in the room knows it
• 0:17
  failed, the press knew knows it failed, the employees definitely
• 0:22
  know it failed, and customers have surely felt the pain.
• 0:26
  The CEO leans forward and says we're seeing tremendous learning
• 0:30
  from our strategic pivot and we're excited about the
• 0:34
  optimization opportunities ahead.
• 0:37
  And the translation it failed, but I can't admit it.
• 0:40
  And in that moment, the CEO just made failure inevitable again.
• 0:45
  Because when leaders can't admit what everyone already knows,
• 0:49
  they guarantee they'll never learn what they need to know.
• 0:54
  Today, we're exploring one of the most counterintuitive
• 0:57
  principles in transformation psychology.
• 1:00
  Vulnerability isn't weakness, it's a superpower.
• 1:05
  But only if you know how to use it.
• 1:07
  I'm Kevin Novak, CEO of 2040, Digital Professor at the
• 1:11
  University of Maryland and author of the book The Truth
• 1:13
  about Transformation and the Ideas and Innovations Weekly
• 1:17
  newsletter. And I'm Elizabeth Stewart,
• 1:20
  Kevin's consulting partner at 2040 Digital.
• 1:23
  I spent the last 15 years helping organizations transform
• 1:27
  their operations and resources, both human and financial, and to
• 1:32
  manage change and address innovation.
• 1:34
  Welcome to the Human Factor Podcast, the show that explores
• 1:38
  the intersection of humanity, technology, and transformation,
• 1:42
  along with the psychology behind transformation success.
• 1:46
  You know, Kevin, this topic always generates the most
• 1:49
  resistance when we bring it up with leadership teams.
• 1:53
  Why is that? It's true, the idea that
• 1:56
  emitting weakness could be a strength goes against everything
• 1:59
  most executives have been taught about leadership.
• 2:04
  So Elizabeth, before we dive in, I want to acknowledge something.
• 2:09
  This episode idea came from you, from your patterns that you've
• 2:13
  been seeing in our client work. Can you share what sparked this?
• 2:18
  Of course, you know, over the past year I've noticed something
• 2:21
  fascinating. The organizations that
• 2:24
  transformed successfully aren't the ones that project the most
• 2:27
  confidence. They're the ones comfortable
• 2:30
  enough to say we don't know. Sometimes even at meeting, we
• 2:34
  don't know what we don't know, but we're going to figure it
• 2:37
  out. And conversely, the ones that
• 2:39
  fail are often the ones that pretend, sometimes assume to
• 2:43
  have all the answers. Exactly.
• 2:46
  There's this pattern I keep seeing leadership analysis, a
• 2:49
  transformation with absolute certainty.
• 2:52
  We know exactly where we're going and how to get there.
• 2:55
  Six months later, when reality doesn't match the plan, they
• 2:59
  can't adjust because they inbox themselves into false certainty.
• 3:04
  It's what I call the confidence job.
• 3:06
  The more confidently you present your strategy, the harder it
• 3:09
  becomes to adapt when you learn new information, since you are
• 3:13
  practically admitting your strategy may have been
• 3:16
  incomplete or flawed from the start.
• 3:19
  And transformation is all about learning new information.
• 3:23
  By definition, you're doing something you haven't done
• 3:25
  before, so how could you possibly have all the answers?
• 3:30
  Today, we're going to explore why vulnerability accelerates
• 3:34
  transformation, how pretending to have answers prevents finding
• 3:39
  real solutions, and what happens when organizations create what
• 3:42
  we call psychological safety through strategic vulnerability.
• 3:48
  We'll also share some surprising examples of how admitting
• 3:52
  weakness has become a competitive advantage for some
• 3:55
  of the world's most successful organizations.
• 3:58
  Kevin, let's start with what we call the hiding cascade.
• 4:01
  Can you explain what this is? It's a phenomenon where everyone
• 4:06
  in an organization is hiding the same problems, believing they're
• 4:09
  the only ones struggling. It starts at the top and
• 4:12
  cascades down through every level.
• 4:15
  You know, I saw this recently with the technology company
• 4:18
  implementing a new CRM system. Can I share that story?
• 4:23
  Oh please do, it's a perfect example.
• 4:27
  Well, the CEOCEO announced the CRM transformation with great
• 4:31
  fanfare. This will revolutionize how we
• 4:34
  serve customers. The executive team nodded
• 4:37
  enthusiastically. Privately, the CFO was terrified
• 4:41
  about the cost, as he should be. The CTO was worried about
• 4:45
  integration, as he should be. The head of sales knew her team
• 4:49
  would revolt. But in the meeting, everyone
• 4:51
  smiled and agreed. Because admitting concern would
• 4:55
  be seen as a weakness or disloyalty.
• 4:59
  Exactly. So each executive went to their
• 5:02
  teams and presented the Saint Paul's Confidence dealership is
• 5:06
  fully aligned. This is going to be amazing.
• 5:09
  Their direct reports had the same concerns but stayed quiet
• 5:12
  for the same reasons. And this cascade continues all
• 5:16
  the way down to the front lines. But the people who actually use
• 5:21
  the system everyday are thinking, Oh my goodness, this
• 5:25
  is never going to work. But I guess I'm the only one who
• 5:28
  sees it. And six months later, the
• 5:31
  implementation is failing. But here's the tragic part.
• 5:35
  Everyone knew it would fail. The collective intelligence of
• 5:38
  the organization had identified every problem, but that
• 5:41
  intelligence was trapped behind a wall of false confidence.
• 5:46
  And the research on this is fascinating.
• 5:49
  Amy Edmondson from Harvard has spent decades studying
• 5:52
  psychological safety. Her data shows that teams where
• 5:56
  people admit mistakes and ask questions outperform confident
• 6:00
  teams as a confident teams by 40% on average.
• 6:06
  But here's what's counterintuitive.
• 6:08
  It's not the junior people who need to be vulnerable first.
• 6:10
  It's it's the leaders. That's right.
• 6:15
  Google's Project Aristotle found that psychological safety was
• 6:18
  the number one factor in team performance.
• 6:21
  But safety doesn't mean convert, OK.
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  It means people feel safe being uncomfortable.
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  Safe to say I don't know. Safe to say I was wrong.
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  Safe to say I need help. And that's safety.
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  It only exists when leaders model it first.
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  When Aceo says I don't have all the answers, it doesn't make
• 6:46
  people lose confidence in him or her.
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  It gives them permission to be open and and honest.
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  Yeah, let let me share an example from my own experience.
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  I was teaching a class at the University of Maryland.
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  The student asked me about a specific technology and its
• 7:02
  influence on changing society. It was surfacing a new social
• 7:07
  network that was using AI that I wasn't aware of.
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  I could have given a generic answer that sounded
• 7:13
  authoritative to be the professor.
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  Instead, I said, you know what? I don't know, but that's a great
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  question. Let's all talk through it
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  together. So what happened next?
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  The entire dynamic of the class changed that evening.
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  Students that have been silent started sharing their own
• 7:31
  thoughts and uncertainties. It turned from a lecture into a
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  collaborative discussion and an exploratory session, which is
• 7:38
  the most great way to to get kids engaged.
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  And we actually came up with rational and important answers
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  to the initial question, and it was so much better than I could
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  have provided alone. That's the vulnerability
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  advantage in action. By admitting what you don't
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  know, you unlock the collective intelligence of the group or the
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  team. But most organizations do the
• 8:01
  opposite. They create what you call
• 8:03
  competence theater. And competence theater is when
• 8:08
  everyone performs confidence they don't feel.
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  Meetings become performances when people recite their lines
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  like everything's on track. No major issues, full steam
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  ahead. Meanwhile, the real
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  conversations happen in the hallways, private messages and
• 8:23
  after work drinks. So people say, Can you believe
• 8:27
  this disaster? Or this is never going to work.
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  What? What can we do?
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  The organization has two realities, the official one
• 8:36
  where everything is fine, and the shadow one where everyone
• 8:39
  knows that it's simply not Elizabeth.
• 8:44
  There's a paradox here that we need to address.
• 8:47
  How do you maintain credibility while admitting uncertainty?
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  Won't people lose faith in leadership that doesn't have all
• 8:54
  the answers? This is a vulnerability
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  competence paradox. OK, It's based on a fundamental
• 9:02
  misunderstanding of what competence actually means in
• 9:05
  complex environments. Of course, traditional thinking
• 9:08
  says competence equals having the answers.
• 9:12
  But in transformation, cometence equals finding answers.
• 9:16
  Those are very different things. Can you elaborate on that
• 9:20
  distinction a little more? Sure.
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  So in a stable environment with known problems, competence means
• 9:27
  expertise, right? You've seen this before.
• 9:30
  You know the solution. But transformation by definition
• 9:34
  means doing something new. The problem is novel, the
• 9:38
  context is unique. Previous solutions may not
• 9:41
  apply. So competence becomes about
• 9:44
  process, not answers. Right.
• 9:47
  It's about knowing how to navigate uncertainty, not
• 9:51
  pretending uncertainty doesn't exist.
• 9:54
  You know, I love the framework you developed for this.
• 9:56
  They're confident uncertainty model.
• 10:00
  Thank you, Kevin. It came from observing leaders
• 10:03
  who successfully balance vulnerability with credibility.
• 10:07
  They're confident in their ability to figure things out
• 10:10
  while being uncertain about exactly what they'll figure out.
• 10:13
  Yeah, they say things like I don't know the answer, but I
• 10:17
  know how we'll find it. Or they might say, this may not
• 10:22
  work, but here's how we'll know quickly and how we can adjust.
• 10:27
  And of course, that's very different from false certainty.
• 10:30
  This will definitely work because I said so.
• 10:33
  There's actually neuroscience behind why vulnerable leaders
• 10:37
  inspire more confidence when someone admits uncertainty.
• 10:42
  Our brains recognize authenticity.
• 10:45
  Mirror neurons fire differently when we observe genuine emotion
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  versus perform emotion or fake emotion.
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  People have excellent BS detectors.
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  That is very, very true. We evolved to detect deception
• 11:01
  because it was a survival. It was survival critical.
• 11:04
  In the small tribes. When a leader projects false
• 11:07
  confidence, people sense it, even if they can't articulate
• 11:11
  why. Yeah, this creates what I call a
• 11:13
  trust deficit. The gap between what leaders
• 11:16
  saying and what people sense creates organizational anxiety,
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  and anxiety destroys performance.
• 11:23
  Studies show that teens operating under false certainty
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  make 34% more errors than teens that acknowledge uncertainty.
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  And that's because they're spending cognitive energy
• 11:34
  maintaining the facade instead of solving problems.
• 11:37
  So let me share a story that illustrates this perfectly.
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  Kevin, a healthcare system was implementing a new patient
• 11:45
  management system. The CIO stood up and said, I'll
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  be honest, this is the most complex integration I've ever
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  attempted. I don't know if our approach
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  will work, but here's how we'll find out fast, and here's how
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  we'll adjust if it doesn't. That's vulnerability, but
• 12:03
  confident. And the response was
• 12:06
  fascinating. Instead of panic, there was
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  relief. One department had actually
• 12:11
  said, Thank God someone finally admitted this is hard.
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  Because everyone already knew it was hard.
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  But they were all pretending it wasn't.
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  Once the CIO broke the spell, real problem solving could
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  begin. Teams started sharing concerns
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  early instead of fighting them. They created rapid feedback
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  loops instead of long review cycles.
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  And then they celebrated learning from failures instead
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  of fighting them. So what were the results?
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  Well, the implementation still had challenges, but they solved
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  them 60% faster than previous system rollouts.
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  Not because they had better technology or even more
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  resources, but because they had the psychological permission to
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  be honest about the problems. And this connects to something
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  called the competence curse. The more expert someone is, the
• 13:02
  harder it is for them to admit ignorance.
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  Which is particularly problematic in transformation
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  because experts expertise in the old way can actually be a
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  liability for the new way. I see this with digital
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  transformation constantly. The executives who built their
• 13:19
  careers in pre digital feel they need to be experts in digital to
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  maintain credibility. So they pretend to understand
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  technologies. They actually don't.
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  They make decisions based on limited knowledge, and they
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  create strategies that simply don't make any sense.
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  When what they should be saying is I built this company without
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  digital, now I need to learn digital and I need your help.
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  And that statement alone could inspire more confidence in any
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  amount of false expertise. So how do organizations create
• 13:54
  what you call strategic vulnerability?
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  How do you build a culture where admitting weakness is seen as a
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  strength? It starts with understanding the
• 14:04
  difference between productive and unproductive vulnerability.
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  Not all vulnerability is helpful, you know.
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  Can you give an example of each? So unproductive.
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  Unproductive vulnerability is emotional dumping without a
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  purpose. A leader saying I'm overwhelmed
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  and I don't know what to do and there's no follow up that
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  creates anxiety without direction.
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  Its vulnerability is abdication. Exactly.
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  Productive vulnerability acknowledges limitation while
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  maintaining agency. This is challenging me in new
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  ways. Here's what I'm learning, and
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  here's what I need from you. It's really vulnerability as
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  invitation. It becomes inclusive and
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  welcoming. Yes, it invites others into
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  problem solving rather than dumping problems on them.
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  So you've developed a framework for this, the Admit Protocol.
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  The admit stands for this. OK a acknowledge what you don't
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  know D define what you need to learn M mobilize resources to
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  learn it. I iterate based on feedback and
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  D transparency about the process.
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  So let's walk through each item. Acknowledge is simply stating
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  the uncertainty clearly. No hedging, no minimizing.
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  You just say we don't know if this approach will work.
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  Which of course is different from.
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  We're fairly confident this might work.
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  That hedging language actually creates more anxiety because
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  people sense the hidden uncertainty.
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  Define means being specific about knowledge gaps.
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  Not we need to learn about AI, but we need to understand how AI
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  will impact a specific workflow. Mobilize is where vulnerability
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  becomes productive. That's right.
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  You're not just admitting ignorance, you're active
• 16:00
  actively addressing it. Here's who we're bringing in,
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  here's what we're studying, and here's how we'll experiment.
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  Iterate acknowledges that learning isn't linear.
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  No, it isn't, You say we'll try this, we'll learn, and we
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  adjust. Our first attempt probably won't
• 16:19
  be perfect or even right. And transparency means sharing
• 16:23
  the learning process, not just the outcomes.
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  Here's what we tried, Here's what failed, Here's what we
• 16:30
  learned, and here's what we're trying next.
• 16:34
  I want to share how we've used this at 2040 Digital.
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  When we started developing the human factor method, I I could
• 16:40
  have presented it as a finished framework.
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  Instead, we were transparent about its evolution.
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  How did the clients respond? They became Co creators, they
• 16:51
  shared what worked, what didn't and and what was missing.
• 16:55
  The framework became stronger because we admitted it wasn't
• 16:58
  perfect. It also became adaptable to each
• 17:01
  client situation, which was always first and foremost my
• 17:04
  goal. And that's the paradox.
• 17:07
  Admitting imperfection leads to better outcomes than claiming
• 17:11
  perfection. And there's another element
• 17:13
  here, what you call vulnerability boundaries.
• 17:17
  Oh yes, that is crucial. Strategic vulnerability doesn't
• 17:21
  mean sharing everything with everyone.
• 17:23
  There are boundaries, you know. What kind of boundaries?
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  So temporal boundaries, which is some uncertainties, need to be
• 17:32
  resolved before sharing broadly. If you're considering layoffs,
• 17:35
  for example, you work through the decision before creating
• 17:39
  organizational anxiety. Hierarchical boundaries.
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  Sometimes senior leadership needs to process uncertainty
• 17:47
  before cascading it down, not to hide it, but to frame it
• 17:51
  productively. And personal versus professional
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  boundaries. Critical distinction, Kevin
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  sharing that you don't understand a technology is
• 18:01
  professional vulnerability. Sharing your marriage problems?
• 18:05
  No, that is not strategic vulnerability in a work
• 18:08
  environment. Unless it's affecting your
• 18:11
  performance in a way the team needs to understand.
• 18:14
  Well, even then it's about professional impact, not
• 18:17
  personal details. You could say I'm dealing with
• 18:20
  some personal challenges that might affect my availability
• 18:24
  versus detailed personal information about your marital
• 18:27
  wolves. Let's look at some examples of
• 18:31
  organizations that have used strategic vulnerability as a
• 18:34
  competitive advantage. Microsoft for instance, for
• 18:38
  instance under Satya Nadella is a perfect example.
• 18:42
  It's a complete transformation from the bomber era.
• 18:45
  When Nadella became CEO, Kevin Microsoft was seen as arrogant,
• 18:50
  insular and declining. His first pager speech included
• 18:54
  the line We need to rediscover our soul.
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  And he admitted the company had completely lost its soul along
• 19:01
  the way. He talked about moving from know
• 19:04
  it alls to learn it alls. That's vulnerability as an
• 19:08
  organizational strategy. And it worked.
• 19:11
  Microsoft's market cap has increased significantly under
• 19:14
  his leadership, and they are now seen as a critical linchpin in
• 19:17
  AI development and hosting. And not despite the
• 19:21
  vulnerability, but because of it.
• 19:24
  By admitting they didn't have all the answers, Microsoft
• 19:27
  became open to partnerships, to new technologies and customer
• 19:31
  feedback they'd previously ignored.
• 19:34
  Another example is Ray Dalio's Bridgewater Associates.
• 19:40
  Where radical conspiracy is a core principle.
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  They record every meeting. Anyone can challenge anyone,
• 19:46
  regardless of the hierarchy. Mistakes.
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  Mistakes are dissected publicly. That may sound brutal, but it's
• 19:54
  actually psychological safety through radical vulnerability.
• 19:58
  Everyone's imperfections are visible, so no one needs to hide
• 20:02
  them. Let's bring this to practical
• 20:05
  application. A leader listening to this is
• 20:08
  probably thinking, OK I get it, but how do I start?
• 20:12
  Start small and be specific. Pick one area where you
• 20:16
  genuinely don't have the answers.
• 20:19
  Not your deepest strategic uncertainty, but something
• 20:21
  that's truly manageable. In your next team meeting, for
• 20:25
  example, say something like I want to be transparent about
• 20:28
  something. I don't fully understand how our
• 20:31
  customers use our new feature. I've been assuming X, but I
• 20:35
  realize I might be wrong. So what are you all seeing?
• 20:39
  And then this is really crucial. Actually listen to the responses
• 20:43
  that you get. And without defending your own
• 20:46
  assumptions, without explaining why you thought what you
• 20:49
  thought. But just listen and learn.
• 20:51
  So E what usually happens. Well, three things, right?
• 20:55
  First, relief. People physically relax when
• 20:58
  leaders admit uncertainty. Second, engagement.
• 21:02
  People who normally stay quiet, they start contributing 3rd
• 21:07
  information. You learned things that have
• 21:09
  been hidden by the confidence cascade.
• 21:12
  But here's what leaders fear loss of respect.
• 21:16
  But Kevin, in your experience, have you ever lost respect for a
• 21:20
  leader who genuinely admitted they didn't know something?
• 21:24
  Never I I've lost respect for leaders who pretended to know
• 21:27
  things that they didn't. But admitting ignorance was
• 21:31
  commitment to learning. That builds respect.
• 21:35
  This research on this, Stanford's Carol Dweck, studied
• 21:40
  how children respond to adults who admit mistakes.
• 21:43
  Children actually trust adults more when they acknowledge
• 21:47
  errors than when they claim perfection.
• 21:50
  And we don't. You and let me do this with our
• 21:53
  own kids. All the time.
• 21:55
  And we really, we really don't change that much as adults.
• 21:59
  We don't. We still trust authenticity over
• 22:02
  authority. So let me show a share of
• 22:05
  failure of mine. Early in developing our
• 22:07
  assessment toilet transformation assessment.com, I was convinced
• 22:11
  we needed to measure 50 different variables.
• 22:14
  I presented this to our team with great confidence.
• 22:19
  And what happened? The data and team insight was
• 22:22
  overwhelming. What I plan to include was a
• 22:24
  lot, the team shared users would be overwhelmed as they tried to
• 22:29
  complete the assessment. It was just so stressful.
• 22:32
  The results were going to be too complex, they said, to be even
• 22:36
  actionable or even for us to interpret.
• 22:39
  But I've been so confident that I initially defended it rather
• 22:43
  than admitting that there was a problem.
• 22:46
  So how did you shift, Kevin? So, Elizabeth, you actually
• 22:49
  called me out. You said, Kevin, this isn't
• 22:51
  working and everyone knows it is.
• 22:53
  And for anyone who knows Elizabeth, she's very direct and
• 22:56
  I, I respect that greatly. And I, and I'm glad you admitted
• 23:01
  that, because I do remember that conversation.
• 23:05
  And and it stung, but you were right.
• 23:07
  I brought the team together and said OK, I was wrong, this is
• 23:11
  too complex. Help me fix it.
• 23:14
  And. We simplified it to the core
• 23:16
  factors that actually predict transformation success.
• 23:20
  The assessment became more powerful by becoming more
• 23:23
  simple, but it only happened because I admitted the original
• 23:26
  approach failed. So what can leaders do tomorrow
• 23:31
  to start building strategic vulnerability?
• 23:34
  First, audit your confidence performances.
• 23:37
  Where are you pretending to have answers that you don't have?
• 23:42
  Make a list. Be honest with yourself before
• 23:45
  being honest with others. Second, practice Elizabeth's
• 23:49
  admit protocol with something small, Pick a low stakes
• 23:52
  uncertainty and walk through those five steps. 3rd, create
• 23:57
  vulnerability permissions in your next meeting.
• 24:01
  Explicitly invite uncertainty. What are we pretending to know
• 24:05
  that we actually don't? 4th Reward vulnerable truth
• 24:10
  telling. When somebody admits a mistake
• 24:13
  or uncertainty, thank them publicly.
• 24:16
  Yeah, you can say thank you for flagging that.
• 24:19
  That took courage and it helps us all. 5th distinguish between
• 24:24
  confidence in your values and certainty about your methods.
• 24:29
  You can be absolutely confident in where you're trying to go
• 24:33
  while being uncertain about exactly how to get there.
• 24:37
  And that's really the sweet spot.
• 24:39
  Confident uncertainty, Elizabeth, this has been one of
• 24:44
  my favorite conversations that we've had.
• 24:46
  Any final thoughts? Just that vulnerability isn't
• 24:50
  the opposite of strength, it's the foundation of strength.
• 24:54
  When organizations stop wasting energy maintaining facades, they
• 24:58
  can use that energy to actually transform.
• 25:01
  And you become more successful as a leader when they see you as
• 25:04
  authentic. The organizations that will
• 25:07
  thrive aren't the ones with all the answers.
• 25:10
  They're the ones brave enough to admit they don't have all of the
• 25:14
  answers. And smart enough to find them
• 25:17
  together. In our next episode, we're
• 25:20
  diving into something that connects directly to what
• 25:23
  Elizabeth and I discussed today about vulnerability and
• 25:26
  psychological safety. We're exploring the resistance
• 25:30
  that hides behind a parent support.
• 25:33
  Episode 8 is called The 12 Types of Resistance When Support Isn't
• 25:37
  Really Support. Here's why this matters after we
• 25:41
  talked about how communication fails even when you're saying
• 25:45
  the right things in Episode 6, and how vulnerability creates
• 25:49
  the foundation for authentic change today in Episode 7, you
• 25:53
  need to understand what's actually happening beneath the
• 25:56
  surface. When people say they support
• 25:59
  your transformation, but their behavior tells you a different
• 26:02
  story, I'm going to show you the 12 distinct psychological
• 26:06
  patterns that appear helpful, professional, and supportive
• 26:09
  while systematically preventing transformation from succeeding.
• 26:14
  Innovation resistance that appears as quality control.
• 26:17
  Knowledge transfer resistance that shows up as documentation
• 26:21
  requirements. Authority distribution
• 26:23
  resistance that manifest as governance proposals.
• 26:27
  Each pattern sounds rational in isolation, but together they
• 26:31
  create the invisible drag that explains why transformations
• 26:35
  with full support still fail at predictable rates.
• 26:39
  The supporters aren't lying about their commitment, they're
• 26:42
  operating with multiple simultaneous truths that they
• 26:46
  can't consciously reconcile. And once you can see these
• 26:49
  patterns as patterns rather than individual concerns, once you
• 26:53
  can address the underlying psychology rather than just the
• 26:57
  surface request, transformation becomes possible in ways no, it
• 27:01
  never was when you were fighting resistance directly.
• 27:05
  That's episode 8, and it builds directly on everything we've
• 27:08
  discussed about communication, vulnerability and psychological
• 27:13
  safety across these last three episodes.
• 27:16
  If you found value in today's episode, subscribe to the
• 27:19
  podcast, share it with your team, and please leave a rating.
• 27:23
  And if you're wondering how psychologically safe your
• 27:26
  organization really is, take our free assessment at
• 27:29
  transformationassessment.com. Again, Transformation
• 27:34
  Assessment, oneword.com and subscribe to our Ideas and
• 27:38
  Innovation newsletter or on substance.
• 27:42
  Until next time, remember, transformation isn't about
• 27:45
  having all the answers, it's about being brave enough to
• 27:48
  admit that you don't. And smart enough to find them.
• 27:53
  I'm Kevin Novak. And I'm Elizabeth Stewart.
• 27:57
  This has been the Human Factor podcast.
• 27:59
  Thank you for watching or listening.