Latest / Pod Save America / “8chan in the White House.”

Transcript

“8chan in the White House.” · Pod Save America

• 0:20
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: I'm Jon Lovett.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: I'm Tommy Vsort.
• 0:23
  Speaker 3: Later in the pod, my conversation with Beto O'Rourke, who
• 0:26
  Speaker 3: left the campaign trail to be in his hometown of
• 0:28
  Speaker 3: El Paso. which was the site of one of this
• 0:30
  Speaker 3: weekend's two mass shootings. The other took place in Dayton, Ohio.
• 0:33
  Speaker 3: And we will be spending today's pod talking about what
• 0:35
  Speaker 3: led to this domestic terrorism and what we can do
• 0:38
  Speaker 3: about it.
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: Before we do, a few housekeeping notes. Love it. How
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: was the show this weekend? I heard new Democratic sex
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: symbol Jay Inslee stopped by, so that's good.
• 0:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 0:50
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: He did?
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: It wasn't just the planet heating up.
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: We had a great level to leave it. There's a
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: lot of those jokes. I hope to hear them all
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: in the episode. That may be the one I used
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: in the episode. Who can remember? It was a great episode.
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: Kara Swisher, Kara Brown, Rami Youssef, Jay Inslee stopped by.
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: Truly one of my favorite episodes in a long time.
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: Check it out. Check it out.
• 1:10
  Speaker 3: We also have a brand new Crooked miniseries coming out
• 1:13
  Speaker 3: this Wednesday, hosted by our very own Shaniqua McClendon, Crooked
• 1:17
  Speaker 3: Media's political director. It's called Rigging North Carolina, and it
• 1:21
  Speaker 3: follows the story of the political consultant who was accused
• 1:23
  Speaker 3: of committing election fraud in North Carolina's 9th district during
• 1:26
  Speaker 3: the 2018 midterms. It's why we're going to have another
• 1:30
  Speaker 3: election there in September. One more from 2018.
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: So check that out. It's an excellent series, and Shaniqua
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: is awesome. Okay, the news.
• 1:40
  Speaker 3: Over 30 people were murdered in two mass shootings that
• 1:43
  Speaker 3: took place hours apart this weekend in El Paso, Texas,
• 1:46
  Speaker 3: and Dayton, Ohio, just a week after a shooting in Gilroy, California,
• 1:49
  Speaker 3: that left three dead. The El Paso massacre that occurred
• 1:52
  Speaker 3: at a Walmart left over 20 dead, dozens more injured,
• 1:55
  Speaker 3: and is being investigated as a potential act of domestic terrorism.
• 1:58
  Speaker 3: The suspected gunman drove from Dallas after posting a manifesto
• 2:01
  Speaker 3: on the site 8chan, where he wrote that, quote, this
• 2:03
  Speaker 3: attack is a response to the Hispanic invasion of Texas.
• 2:07
  Speaker 3: Later that evening in Dayton, another gunman used an AR-15
• 2:09
  Speaker 3: to murder at least eight people, including his own sister,
• 2:12
  Speaker 3: in a killing spree that lasted for less than a
• 2:14
  Speaker 3: minute before he was shot by law enforcement. Sunday marked
• 2:17
  Speaker 3: the 216th day of 2019 and the 251st mass shooting,
• 2:22
  Speaker 3: with El Paso becoming the eighth deadliest shooting in U.S.
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: History.
• 2:27
  Speaker 3: Guys, we're going to talk about white nationalism and gun
• 2:29
  Speaker 3: control and what we can do, but what were your
• 2:33
  Speaker 3: initial reactions over the weekend hearing this news?
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: You know, we've had this conversation on the show many times,
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: and that is what I thought about. What I thought was, well,
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: here we are again. This is completely expected and predictable.
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: These events will happen again and again and again. And
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: we have done nothing to prevent that from happening. We've
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: taken no actions to change the underlying conditions that are
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: causing these events to happen on repeat. And so when
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: it happens, we shouldn't be surprised, which is a completely
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: predictable thing. outcome of our politics and our policies is
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: what I thought.
• 3:11
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 3:12
  Speaker 5: I mean, I think that, uh, there are probably two
• 3:14
  Speaker 5: parts to it. I mean, I'm like a relatively, uh,
• 3:18
  Speaker 5: large adult male who lives in a safe place and
• 3:21
  Speaker 5: now I enter public spaces and scan for exits.
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: So that's a fucked up feeling.
• 3:25
  Speaker 5: Uh, I, you know, essentially asked my wife not to
• 3:29
  Speaker 5: go to the mall on Saturday, just out of paranoia.
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: So that's the personal side.
• 3:35
  Speaker 5: I think on the political side, I'm just so far
• 3:38
  Speaker 5: past sad.
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: I'm furious.
• 3:41
  Speaker 5: These warning signs have been coming for a long time.
• 3:44
  Speaker 5: And I think there's sort of two parts to it
• 3:47
  Speaker 5: that you can't really disaggregate. In my opinion, there's the
• 3:50
  Speaker 5: problem of guns just being awash in this country. And
• 3:53
  Speaker 5: then there's this growing threat of paranoid white nationalists taking
• 3:59
  Speaker 5: paranoid horrific action to murder people based on language they're
• 4:04
  Speaker 5: hearing from mainstream political commentators like Tucker Carlson and the
• 4:08
  Speaker 5: president of the United States. And we need to deal
• 4:11
  Speaker 5: with both. And I think, you know, we need to
• 4:15
  Speaker 5: summon some of this rage. And remember, we have agency
• 4:18
  Speaker 5: here and start fighting for some changes.
• 4:20
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 4:20
  Speaker 3: I think what really hit me was I saw a
• 4:24
  Speaker 3: headline in Australia's Sydney Herald and the headline in the
• 4:29
  Speaker 3: newspaper was us in the midst of a white nationalism,
• 4:32
  Speaker 3: terror crisis.
• 4:33
  Speaker 4: Accurate.
• 4:34
  Speaker 3: And it always, uh, it always hits home when it's
• 4:36
  Speaker 3: another country, how another country would report about your country.
• 4:40
  Speaker 3: And I think sometimes it's hard to have that outsider
• 4:43
  Speaker 3: perspective when we're here watching this unfold every day. And to,
• 4:46
  Speaker 3: to see that other countries are calling what's happening in
• 4:49
  Speaker 3: the United States of America, white nationalism, terrorist crisis is, um,
• 4:54
  Speaker 3: it's pretty stunning and pretty sad.
• 4:56
  Speaker 4: Um, All right.
• 4:57
  Speaker 3: So like you said, Tommy, I think it is hard
• 4:58
  Speaker 3: to completely separate our white nationalism problem from our gun problem.
• 5:02
  Speaker 3: But let's start with the 2300 word manifesto linked to
• 5:06
  Speaker 3: the terrorist attack in El Paso, in which the author
• 5:08
  Speaker 3: said that he was inspired by the writings of the
• 5:10
  Speaker 3: white nationalist terrorists who killed 51 people at two mosques
• 5:12
  Speaker 3: in Christchurch, New Zealand. The author also decried shameless race mixers,
• 5:17
  Speaker 3: accused Democrats of, quote, pandering to the Hispanic voting bloc
• 5:20
  Speaker 3: and justified the murder of Mexicans and Hispanic immigrants as, quote,
• 5:23
  Speaker 3: simply defending my country from cultural and ethnic replacement. brought
• 5:27
  Speaker 3: on by an invasion, yet another reason to send them back.
• 5:31
  Speaker 3: He ends by writing that his views, quote, predate Trump,
• 5:33
  Speaker 3: though the president has repeatedly referred to Hispanic immigration as, quote,
• 5:36
  Speaker 3: an invasion of our country. And at a May rally
• 5:39
  Speaker 3: in Florida, he asked, how do you stop these people?
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: You can't.
• 5:42
  Speaker 3: A member of the crowd yelled back, shoot them. And
• 5:44
  Speaker 3: when the audience cheered, Trump smiled and said, only in
• 5:47
  Speaker 3: the panhandle can you get away with that statement. So
• 5:51
  Speaker 3: my first thought was, does it really matter whether this
• 5:54
  Speaker 3: domestic terrorist was radicalized before or after Trump became president.
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: I just think, like, it's... It seems beside the point.
• 6:03
  Speaker 5: I don't know why we're believing this little head fake
• 6:07
  Speaker 5: in this kid's manifesto.
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: He was 21.
• 6:10
  Speaker 5: He's 21 now, when he shot up this Walmart. Donald
• 6:17
  Speaker 5: Trump announced for president four years ago. So he has
• 6:20
  Speaker 5: spent his formative years from 16 or 17 to 21...
• 6:24
  Speaker 5: hearing Donald Trump and hearing his rhetoric, starting with Mexicans
• 6:28
  Speaker 5: being rapists, and all that has followed. So, of course,
• 6:32
  Speaker 5: Donald Trump was part of the process that radicalized this kid.
• 6:35
  Speaker 5: You know, I just, I think we're being, it's worth
• 6:39
  Speaker 5: asking the question, but I just think it's self-evident.
• 6:42
  Speaker 3: I also think, even if he wasn't, even if he's
• 6:44
  Speaker 3: on the off chance that he's telling the truth about this,
• 6:47
  Speaker 3: the president's, this shooting shows, Christchurch shows, Pittsburgh, Poway, California,
• 6:53
  Speaker 3: all of them. that the president's language around this is
• 6:58
  Speaker 3: a threat to national security. And it's not just the
• 7:01
  Speaker 3: president's language, it's the language that Tucker Carlson uses on
• 7:05
  Speaker 3: Fox News, that Laura Ingraham uses on Fox News, that
• 7:08
  Speaker 3: all kinds of fucking buffoons on that network use, that
• 7:12
  Speaker 3: is spread throughout 8chan and 4chan and all these fucking
• 7:15
  Speaker 3: online platforms. I mean, this is a bigger deal, right?
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: Right, yeah. I mean, look, one, this is the.
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: This is the challenge of describing what people call stochastic terrorism.
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: When Donald Trump, when Tucker Carlson, when Laura Ingraham say
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: what they say, when advertisers pay to promulgate what those
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: people say, it reaches a lot of people. And when
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: it reaches a lot of people, it causes some of
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: them to take it seriously, and it takes some of
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: them to take it to its logical conclusions. all of
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: this rhetoric is added to the extremist foment.
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: It's added to the... It feeds the.
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: Discussions that take place in the dark corners of the Internet.
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: It feeds what you see on Twitter. It feeds into
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: the minds of damaged and troubled people who take it literally.
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: So whether or not this one person had this idea
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: beforehand and was galvanized by what Trump and others have
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: been saying... or whether Trump is the person who planted
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: the first seed, is really beside the point. What we
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: have is a system that is pumping out really dangerous information,
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: and when it reaches certain people, they are willing to
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: use it as a justification for their desire to kill people,
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: to kill themselves by killing other people, to take their
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: vengeance and violent fantasies public in a very real way.
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: So I'm not really interested in the exact.
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: Trajectory of the kind of white supremacist extremist ideology that
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: managed to get into this one person's brain.
• 9:00
  Speaker 3: I think it's probably also useful to talk about what
• 9:03
  Speaker 3: this ideology is. I mean, you know, we've said this before, too,
• 9:07
  Speaker 3: and everyone says, oh, it's about immigration, it's about immigration.
• 9:09
  Speaker 3: It's really not about immigration. There is a debate to
• 9:14
  Speaker 3: be had over immigration, a legitimate debate in this country
• 9:17
  Speaker 3: about how we secure our borders and how much immigration
• 9:21
  Speaker 3: is the right amount of immigration and how we fix
• 9:23
  Speaker 3: our immigration system so that we have orderly legal immigration
• 9:27
  Speaker 3: in this country, right? There's a fine debate about that.
• 9:30
  Speaker 3: This is not Trump's problem. This is not Stephen Miller's problem.
• 9:33
  Speaker 3: This is not Tucker Carlson or Laura Ingraham's problem. They're
• 9:36
  Speaker 3: talking about black and brown immigration. That's their problem.
• 9:39
  Speaker 5: They're talking about, yeah, ethnic cleansing or purity.
• 9:41
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 9:41
  Speaker 3: Trump has talked about wanting more immigrants from Nordic countries,
• 9:46
  Speaker 3: white immigrants in this country. He's not upset about that
• 9:49
  Speaker 3: kind of immigration. I found that quote, this is a
• 9:51
  Speaker 3: problem with all this, is that Trump says so many
• 9:54
  Speaker 3: heinous things all the time that it just, you know,
• 9:56
  Speaker 3: they all get memory hold and we forget about them.
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: But remember in July of 2018.
• 10:00
  Speaker 3: 2018 when he was over in London and he gave
• 10:01
  Speaker 3: an interview to, I think it was The Sun in
• 10:04
  Speaker 3: the UK, and he said about immigration, I think you
• 10:08
  Speaker 3: are losing your culture. I think it's changing the culture.
• 10:11
  Speaker 3: I think it's a very negative thing for Europe. And
• 10:13
  Speaker 3: I know it's not politically correct to say that, but
• 10:15
  Speaker 3: I'll say it and I'll say it out loud. And
• 10:17
  Speaker 3: this was about refugees from Syria and immigrants and migration
• 10:22
  Speaker 3: in Europe. It's about losing your culture.
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's about white supremacy.
• 10:26
  Speaker 5: I mean, I'm glad we're talking about 8chan and the
• 10:30
  Speaker 5: Daily Stormer and some of the darker corners of the internet.
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: Because if you go to.
• 10:33
  Speaker 5: Those places and you see what's talked about, it's open
• 10:37
  Speaker 5: calls to incite violence. It's posting this video repeatedly in
• 10:41
  Speaker 5: an effort to get people to take copycat action. So
• 10:44
  Speaker 5: it's good that that stuff is coming down. But you
• 10:47
  Speaker 5: don't need 8chan to hear hardcore white nationalist rhetoric. You
• 10:51
  Speaker 5: can read the tweets from the president of the United States.
• 10:54
  Speaker 5: I mean, he retweeted an account called White Genocide. He
• 10:57
  Speaker 5: retweeted that. That's what the great replacement theory is. You
• 11:00
  Speaker 5: can watch Tucker Carlson or Laura Ingraham or Tommy Lahren.
• 11:03
  Speaker 5: And they say that immigrants are replacing white people. They
• 11:05
  Speaker 5: say immigration is destroying America. They say that we're being invaded.
• 11:10
  Speaker 5: And so The way they launder it through politics is
• 11:14
  Speaker 5: they say the Democrats want these things to happen because
• 11:16
  Speaker 5: it will benefit us politically once we make all these
• 11:20
  Speaker 5: new black and brown voters citizens so they can vote
• 11:24
  Speaker 5: for Democrats.
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: But, like, it is disgraceful. And it happens all the time.
• 11:29
  Speaker 5: And it's not, you know, like, when you'll watch these
• 11:33
  Speaker 5: Fox and Friends hosts, even the people that get treated
• 11:36
  Speaker 5: like they're normal, like Abby Huntsman or Ed Henry, they'll
• 11:39
  Speaker 5: sit there and they'll listen and they'll nod. as, you know,
• 11:42
  Speaker 5: Tommy Lahren will say that immigrants are coming to replace
• 11:45
  Speaker 5: us and destroy our nation. I don't know how you
• 11:48
  Speaker 5: can work in these places in good conscience and not
• 11:51
  Speaker 5: speak up and say something.
• 11:52
  Speaker 3: I was going to say, I mean, Donald Trump is
• 11:54
  Speaker 3: a buffoon. He's a racist buffoon, but he's a buffoon.
• 11:57
  Speaker 3: And the people that are writing the script for him,
• 12:00
  Speaker 3: for him to say these things and tweet these things,
• 12:02
  Speaker 3: are the primetime hosts at Fox News. That is his
• 12:07
  Speaker 3: source of information. It's not the presidential daily briefing. It's
• 12:10
  Speaker 3: not his policy advisers. It is the primetime lineup of
• 12:12
  Speaker 3: Fox News and fucking Fox and Friends. And I don't
• 12:14
  Speaker 3: know how the Murdochs can go anywhere without being protested.
• 12:20
  Speaker 3: I don't know why there's not protests outside of Fox
• 12:22
  Speaker 3: News at all. I realize there was a legitimate debate
• 12:26
  Speaker 3: at some point. Do the Democrats go on Fox News?
• 12:29
  Speaker 3: I don't know how any Democrat anywhere or any person,
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: any American, can support that network at this point.
• 12:37
  Speaker 5: And the dance that the Republican Party tries to do
• 12:39
  Speaker 5: is they just go up right to that edge of
• 12:42
  Speaker 5: what's acceptable.
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: Uh, and, but so here's a good example. So this
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: guy named.
• 12:46
  Speaker 5: Paul Nalen, who was running for Congress against Paul Ryan
• 12:49
  Speaker 5: in Wisconsin and Breitbart was all out in support of him. Uh,
• 12:54
  Speaker 5: Steve Bannon, I believe had endorsed him. They ultimately had
• 12:56
  Speaker 5: to disavow Paul Nalen because it became clear that he
• 12:58
  Speaker 5: was a straight up Nazi. Like I think some direct
• 13:01
  Speaker 5: messages came out. Um, that guy was literally cheering what
• 13:06
  Speaker 5: happened in El Paso. I mean, that's how sick these
• 13:09
  Speaker 5: people are. They're making, they're on like Telegram now or
• 13:11
  Speaker 5: Discord or some other type of servers.
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: But like those people were part of the Breitbart alt-right
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: movement very recently. Yeah.
• 13:20
  Speaker 3: I mean, Tommy, you were in the NSC at National
• 13:23
  Speaker 3: Security Council in the White House. How would the response
• 13:25
  Speaker 3: to the shooting be different if the terrorists had been
• 13:27
  Speaker 3: Muslim or immigrants?
• 13:29
  Speaker 5: I think the National Guard would be in the streets patrolling.
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: You know, like it would be.
• 13:32
  Speaker 3: And how would the FBI and DOJ handle it? Isn't
• 13:35
  Speaker 3: there just a different way that we treat terrorism that way?
• 13:38
  Speaker 5: After 9-11, all the resources of the government swung towards
• 13:42
  Speaker 5: Islamic extremism and preventing Al-Qaeda attacks and terrorism.
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: I think that.
• 13:49
  Speaker 5: If this were a bunch of ISIS recruits, that's what
• 13:52
  Speaker 5: you would see right now.
• 13:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean, you know, Chris Wray, the FBI director,
• 13:56
  Speaker 3: said recently white supremacist terrorism is now the number one
• 13:59
  Speaker 3: domestic threat in America. He said the FBI has recorded
• 14:02
  Speaker 3: about 100 domestic terrorism arrests in 2019, most of them
• 14:05
  Speaker 3: involving ties to white supremacy. For the first time, the
• 14:08
  Speaker 3: FBI has also identified fringe conspiracy theories as a risk
• 14:11
  Speaker 3: factor for domestic terrorism, including QAnon. Tommy, you've been talking
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: about this. QAnon, who are now showing up at Trump rallies.
• 14:19
  Speaker 5: There was a cop on Mike Pence's detail who was
• 14:22
  Speaker 5: wearing a QAnon badge.
• 14:23
  Speaker 3: Jesus Christ. That's how weird this is. So Ray has
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: said all that, which is good. I'm glad that he's
• 14:29
  Speaker 3: acknowledging that. But he also said the Bureau doesn't investigate
• 14:32
  Speaker 3: ideology no matter how repugnant we investigate violence. I mean,
• 14:36
  Speaker 3: I think Brian Boitler tweeted this yesterday, but he's like,
• 14:39
  Speaker 3: I think the Democratic candidate should go out there and say,
• 14:42
  Speaker 3: if Chris Wray does not make progress on shifting the
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: FBI's resources so that we're actually going after white nationalist terrorism,
• 14:49
  Speaker 3: then the Democratic candidate should say, I'll replace him as
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: FBI director if I'm president. I mean, it seems like
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: this is an emergency for law enforcement.
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: Right, yeah. I mean, the ideology is becoming more dangerous
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: because it is backed by the president, It is backed
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: indirectly and sometimes directly by Republicans in Congress. It has
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: a massive corporate finance propaganda apparatus, and it has had
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: outlets online that were unwilling to shut down the most
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: extreme conversations and forums for people to foment extremist white
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: nationalist views, popularize the motivations of mass murderers and show
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: to others who might consider doing these kinds of things,
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: that there is a community that will celebrate them in
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: their deaths. So, you know, it's a hard conversation because,
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: you know, we have to fight white supremacy. We have
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: to fight white nationalism. We have to fight it, even
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: if it is not causing mass shootings across the country,
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: because it is distorting and hurting our country and society
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: and politics in countless ways all the time. It is
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: the way in which Donald Trump and those who support
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: him maintain power because their policies actually don't help people.
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: So they turn issues into matters of identity and they
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: stoke fear and hate in people in an effort to
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: hold on to power. That would be true even if
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: it wasn't now causing there to be mass shootings.
• 16:12
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: I just want to make one point just on the
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: NSC side.
• 16:15
  Speaker 5: What we're seeing from these white nationalists is kind of
• 16:18
  Speaker 5: the horror scenario we always worried about, about Al Qaeda
• 16:21
  Speaker 5: or ISIS in this country. Because The people that are
• 16:24
  Speaker 5: committing these acts are already here, right? We're not going
• 16:27
  Speaker 5: to be able to catch them coming to America or
• 16:30
  Speaker 5: catch them traveling to Syria or Afghanistan or Pakistan and
• 16:34
  Speaker 5: going to some training camp. So that ability to disrupt
• 16:37
  Speaker 5: the plot is gone. They've already figured out an effective tactic.
• 16:41
  Speaker 5: You don't need to learn how to fly a jumbo
• 16:44
  Speaker 5: jet and crash into a building. You need an AR-15
• 16:46
  Speaker 5: and you need to walk into a mall. And you
• 16:48
  Speaker 5: can commit a horrific act of terror. So, like, the
• 16:53
  Speaker 5: good news is what's needed is not drone strikes or
• 16:57
  Speaker 5: some foreign policy initiative. You need effective policing in communities.
• 17:02
  Speaker 5: You need to work with people who know folks like
• 17:04
  Speaker 5: this shooter or follow them online and get a tip
• 17:08
  Speaker 5: that this is happening before it becomes an act in
• 17:11
  Speaker 5: real life. I mean, so, like, that's the good news,
• 17:14
  Speaker 5: but we are a long way away from effectively managing
• 17:19
  Speaker 5: the problem. Well, and.
• 17:20
  Speaker 3: the president of the United States is making it incredibly
• 17:23
  Speaker 3: difficult because he's part of that problem. I think one
• 17:25
  Speaker 3: of the most chilling things I read over the weekend
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: is a story in the Washington Post about this. And
• 17:30
  Speaker 3: there was a former FBI agent who said, there's some
• 17:32
  Speaker 3: reluctance among agents to bring forth an investigation that targets
• 17:35
  Speaker 3: what the president perceives as his base. It's a no-win
• 17:38
  Speaker 3: situation for the FBI agent or supervisor. And this is
• 17:41
  Speaker 3: sort of where, you know, the Mueller-Russia drama really starts
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: mattering to people's lives and becomes very dangerous because, You know,
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: Trump tweeting about, oh, I hate the FBI and their
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: deep state and all this bullshit, right? Like, you can
• 17:55
  Speaker 3: all laugh about it on Twitter sometimes. But now we
• 17:58
  Speaker 3: have FBI agents who, because the president has targeted law
• 18:01
  Speaker 3: enforcement and criticized law enforcement and accused them of treason
• 18:08
  Speaker 3: and all kinds of other things and a deep state
• 18:09
  Speaker 3: plot and coups and all that, they don't want to now,
• 18:12
  Speaker 3: and they're afraid to investigate white nationalism because they think
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: it's the president's base.
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: And are they that wrong?
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: Well, and you also remember when the Obama administration tried
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: to point out that there was a rising threat posed
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: by white nationalist groups. They were chastised for politicizing investigations
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: of terror, for even having the audacity to suggest that
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: there had been evidence of a rise in right-wing extremism
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: with the potential for right-wing violence.
• 18:46
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 18:48
  Speaker 3: So I want to talk about the Republican reaction to
• 18:49
  Speaker 3: all this and Trump's reaction. You know, the first one
• 18:52
  Speaker 3: out of the box from the administration was Mick Mulvaney.
• 18:55
  Speaker 3: He was on Meet the Press over the weekend. He
• 18:56
  Speaker 3: compared the El Paso terrorist to the Bernie Sanders supporter
• 18:59
  Speaker 3: who shot Congressman Steve Scalise, saying, quote, was Bernie Sanders
• 19:02
  Speaker 3: responsible for when my friends got shot playing baseball?
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: I don't think so.
• 19:06
  Speaker 3: I bring that up because that is the most common
• 19:08
  Speaker 3: online refrain from the, as you call them, the intellectual Zambonis,
• 19:13
  Speaker 3: some of the conservatives who don't really like Trump but
• 19:16
  Speaker 3: want to defend him. How are you making this political, right?
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: There's Bernie Sanders supporters that shoot people. Just so everyone knows, why.
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: Is this different? So I would say two things about this.
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: One, it is different in the sense that Donald Trump
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: is actively promoting the ideology that is causing extremists to
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: latch onto it and use it as a reason to
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: cause murder. It is not simply someone that is identifying
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: with Donald Trump. It is someone who is using his logic,
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: his rhetoric, and his worldview as a justification for murder
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: one Donald Trump has winked at through the entirety of
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: his presidency. That's the first thing I'd say. The second
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: thing I'd say is, okay, you know what? We'll take
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: you at your word. There is a massive white supremacist
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: violence crisis in this country.
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: But you're right. You're right.
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: Mass shooters will latch on to a bunch of different ideologies, right?
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: What does bring them together? What does the research say
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: brings them together? It's one, finding communities online that encourage
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: them to kill. It's two, having trauma and crisis in
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: their lives. But three, it is access to weapons. So
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: if you're going to come at us and say, we
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: can't point to white supremacy, then great. We'll go to
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: the only other thing that could possibly make a difference,
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: which is taking these weapons away from people who want
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: to kill each other.
• 20:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think also, like, Donald Trump's out there talking
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: about an invasion of immigrants, calling them rapists and criminals
• 20:36
  Speaker 3: and all kinds of other stuff. Bernie Sanders' righteous anger
• 20:39
  Speaker 3: stops at higher marginal tax rates for billionaires. Like, give
• 20:42
  Speaker 3: me the fucking break, all right?
• 20:43
  Speaker 5: You're not, like, taking a gun somewhere because of Medicare
• 20:46
  Speaker 5: for All.
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: Right, I mean, this is just... It's such a bad faith.
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: I know, it's all over the place, though.
• 20:53
  Speaker 5: These people, it is so despicable to... to deflect and
• 20:58
  Speaker 5: spin like that in the face of what we just
• 21:00
  Speaker 5: saw this weekend. I don't know how you live with
• 21:02
  Speaker 5: yourself making these kind of bullshit bad faith arguments.
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: I truly don't.
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: Well, so let's talk about Trump himself. After sending a
• 21:08
  Speaker 3: few condolence tweets while hunkering down at his golf course
• 21:11
  Speaker 3: over this weekend, Trump proposed some kind of background check
• 21:14
  Speaker 3: legislation paired with immigration restrictions in a series of tweets
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: this morning, where he also blamed the media in language
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: that echoed the terrorist manifesto.
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: He then delivered short remarks.
• 21:24
  Speaker 3: It sounded like he was reading a hostage statement where
• 21:26
  Speaker 3: he did in fact condemn racism and white supremacy, but
• 21:29
  Speaker 3: then blamed video games and mental health issues for the
• 21:31
  Speaker 3: violence saying, quote, mental illness pulled the trigger, not the gun.
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: That is.
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: The, the video game thing was said by a number
• 21:39
  Speaker 3: of Republican politicians over the weekend, including house minority leader,
• 21:42
  Speaker 3: Kevin McCarthy and Texas Lieutenant governor, Dan Patrick. Trump ended
• 21:45
  Speaker 3: his speech this morning by saying, may God bless the
• 21:48
  Speaker 3: memory of those who perished in Toledo.
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: Um, Can I take a couple of these? Let's first
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: start with video games. Do we have video games in
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: other countries? Yeah, turns out we do.
• 22:03
  Speaker 4: Quite popular.
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: We don't have mass shootings there.
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: There's no proven link between video games and violence. As
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: Tommy said, there are video games in other countries that
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: manage to avoid these kinds of crimes. Also, it's just
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: a myth.
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: It's a pure myth.
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: In fact, there was a study in 2015... that found
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: that when a violent video game, a popular video game,
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: is released, violent crime actually is correlated in a reduction.
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: They don't know why.
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: It could be that people stay home and play video
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: games instead of going out and committing crimes. It could
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: be that it's cathartic. They don't know, but the research
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: does not find any link and find the facts the opposite. Now,
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: on this matter of, first of all, I have a quote,
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: mental illness pulls the trigger, not the gun. First of all,
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: it doesn't matter. It's beside the point. That is insanely
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: terrible writing.
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: Just deal with that. The gun never pulls the trigger.
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: But just take it on its... Forget the writing. It's
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: not true. There is a lot of evidence and a
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: lot of studies that have found again and again that
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: the mere presence of a weapon increases aggression. It's called
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: the weapons effect. The finger pulls the trigger, but the
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: trigger pulls the finger too. That has been shown again
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: and again and again. It is an NRA talking point,
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: and it is just not true.
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: It's also, I mean, a few facts about this. People
• 23:15
  Speaker 3: with mental health issues are more likely to be victims
• 23:17
  Speaker 3: of crimes than perpetrators. If Trump suddenly had this change
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: of heart about mental health issues, well, he repealed a
• 23:24
  Speaker 3: gun regulation early on in his term that was put
• 23:27
  Speaker 3: in place by Barack Obama that prevents certain individuals with
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: mental health conditions from buying firearms.
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: Repealed that.
• 23:34
  Speaker 3: And he also spends every day trying to repeal the
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: Affordable Care Act, which provides coverage for people with mental
• 23:40
  Speaker 3: health issues. So the idea that he suddenly pretends that
• 23:42
  Speaker 3: he gives a shit about mental health issues is bullshit.
• 23:45
  Speaker 3: And also, by the way, we should not skip over
• 23:46
  Speaker 3: the fact that in the middle of that, he also
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: talked about involuntary confinement for people with mental health issues
• 23:53
  Speaker 3: who might be a threat. So not willing to take
• 23:55
  Speaker 3: the fucking guns away, but he wants to imprison the
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: people against their will who have mental health issues.
• 24:00
  Speaker 5: He is prioritizing the Second Amendment. above life, liberty, and
• 24:04
  Speaker 5: the pursuit of happiness for individuals. I mean, so there's
• 24:06
  Speaker 5: a 2015 study that estimated only 4% of American gun
• 24:09
  Speaker 5: deaths could be attributed to mental health issues.
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: So it's a total red herring.
• 24:13
  Speaker 5: It's also notable that the gun used in El Paso
• 24:16
  Speaker 5: is designed to kill people as efficiently and brutally as possible.
• 24:21
  Speaker 5: The manifesto talked about why he chose that gun. In Dayton,
• 24:26
  Speaker 5: this guy used a 100-round drum magazine. It looks like
• 24:30
  Speaker 5: one of those old like Tommy guns from the 20s.
• 24:34
  Speaker 5: I saw a photo of this thing. I can't understand
• 24:36
  Speaker 5: how something like that is sold to civilians in the
• 24:39
  Speaker 5: United States. No one needs 100 rounds unless you're going
• 24:43
  Speaker 5: against an army.
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: Or shooting up a huge group of people. It's insane.
• 24:49
  Speaker 3: Should we be heartened by the fact that Ted Cruz
• 24:51
  Speaker 3: and a few other Republicans were out there calling this
• 24:55
  Speaker 3: white supremacism and domestic terror, or is this just, okay,
• 24:58
  Speaker 3: well then what the fuck are you going to do
• 25:00
  Speaker 3: about it?
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: I'm not particularly, I'm not particularly heartened by it. I mean,
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: I suppose it's better than them not saying that. Um,
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: but of course, simply saying that is literally the absolute
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: least that you can do. You need to follow that
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: to its logical conclusion. You need to identify it and
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: call it out. You need to call out Donald Trump
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: by name. HN may have briefly lost its hosting services,
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: but HN is still hosted in the white house. And
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: so if you're going to say that we have a
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: white supremacist problem, It's not a crime without criminals. It's
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: not a sin without sinners. Donald Trump is the global
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: head of a white nationalist movement that has gained traction
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: because of what he spews every single day. Ted Cruz
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: knows that because he used to say it.
• 25:48
  Speaker 3: And by the way, this goes back to the famous
• 25:52
  Speaker 3: Andrew Gillum line in the debate, right? The Christchurch shooter
• 25:55
  Speaker 3: in his manifesto said that he sees Donald Trump as
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: a renewed symbol of white identity in the world, right?
• 26:02
  Speaker 3: So it's like the racists know he's a racist. They
• 26:05
  Speaker 3: call him that.
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: David has been saying it for years.
• 26:07
  Speaker 5: I mean, like what Ted Cruz's statement tells me is
• 26:11
  Speaker 5: that he's not the worst politician in Texas because Texas
• 26:13
  Speaker 5: Lieutenant Governor Dan Patrick blamed violent video games. John Cornyn,
• 26:17
  Speaker 5: who is, you know, a senior leader in the Senate
• 26:21
  Speaker 5: and is up for reelection in 2020, tweeted, he recently tweeted,
• 26:26
  Speaker 5: His concern about the rapid growth of his state's Hispanic population,
• 26:29
  Speaker 5: which is racist and disgusting in any context, but particularly
• 26:33
  Speaker 5: fucked up now. But on Sunday, he tweeted, quote, focusing
• 26:36
  Speaker 5: on law abiding citizens, exercising their constitutional rights, solve nothing.
• 26:39
  Speaker 5: We need to treat these crimes as problems to be
• 26:40
  Speaker 5: solved rather than one be exploited for partisan political gain.
• 26:43
  Speaker 5: So he is going back to the same infuriating. We
• 26:47
  Speaker 5: can't do anything to get guns off the streets line
• 26:50
  Speaker 5: and nothing's going to.
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: Solve people like that.
• 26:52
  Speaker 3: Literally the only, as far as I've seen, elected Republican
• 26:55
  Speaker 3: in the country who handled this correctly is a guy
• 26:57
  Speaker 3: by the name of State Senator John McAllister of Nebraska,
• 27:02
  Speaker 3: who decided to tweet over the weekend, a long thread,
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: you should read the whole thing, but it starts with,
• 27:06
  Speaker 3: the Republican Party is enabling white supremacy in our country.
• 27:09
  Speaker 3: As a lifelong Republican, it pains me to say this,
• 27:11
  Speaker 3: but it's the truth. And you wonder, why can't more
• 27:15
  Speaker 3: Republicans say that? You know, I mean, like Will Hurd
• 27:17
  Speaker 3: was talking, you know, who just retired instead of running again. That's,
• 27:20
  Speaker 3: you know, it's Another bit of news that the only
• 27:23
  Speaker 3: black Republican in the House decided to retire. And I
• 27:25
  Speaker 3: think he called out divisive language and stuff like that.
• 27:28
  Speaker 3: But I think the only good comment from a Republican
• 27:32
  Speaker 3: now is, like McAllister said, is acknowledging that your party
• 27:36
  Speaker 3: is enabling this right now because of the president that
• 27:38
  Speaker 3: you have.
• 27:39
  Speaker 5: I have, I think, had a sort of naive hope
• 27:42
  Speaker 5: that as an older generation exited the political scene and
• 27:45
  Speaker 5: a younger generation took more power in the voting booths
• 27:49
  Speaker 5: that we would become more welcoming and open to diversity
• 27:54
  Speaker 5: as a country. And now I think I'm realizing that
• 27:56
  Speaker 5: that is a totally naive belief because every generation learns
• 28:00
  Speaker 5: from media and culture and things can get worse. I mean,
• 28:04
  Speaker 5: if you look at the South after reconstruction and the
• 28:06
  Speaker 5: impact of propaganda like birth of a nation, right? So
• 28:09
  Speaker 5: that's why rhetoric from the White House is so, so dangerous.
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: These are kids that are doing this. Radicalizing a 16-year-old.
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I actually think the failure is deeper, too. Yes,
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: they are failing. I feel like they're failing in three ways.
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: They're failing on this matter of confronting white nationalism and
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: the damage it is doing every single day, including in
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: fomenting these mass shootings.
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: They are failing on guns. just fully failing on guns.
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: They want to blame video games even though there's no
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: evidence when, you know, there's plenty of evidence that shows
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: that guns are causing these mass shootings and certainly causing
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: them to be vastly more deadly. And then third, they
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: are failing on this question about what's causing mass shootings, right?
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: I mean, these are distinct crises that are happening all
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: at once. We have a gun crisis. You know, there was,
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: I believe, you know, there were dozens of people shot
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: in Chicago over the weekend.
• 29:03
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: While this was going on.
• 29:04
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: There is a gun crisis that is that it connects
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: mass shooting, suicides and whatever quotidian murder. And then there
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: is this question of what is happening to young men.
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: And they're failing on that question, too. And that adds
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: to the massive failure that they are showing every single
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: day to confront the racism.
• 29:19
  Speaker 3: Well, so let's let's get to the gun problem. Let's
• 29:21
  Speaker 3: talk about what we can do about all these guns.
• 29:23
  Speaker 3: The House passed gun safety legislation back in February that
• 29:25
  Speaker 3: has been sitting in the Senate for months without any
• 29:27
  Speaker 3: action taken by Mitch McConnell. Democrats are now calling on McConnell,
• 29:32
  Speaker 3: who apparently is home in Kentucky with a broken shoulder
• 29:34
  Speaker 3: to bring senators back to D.C. from their August recesses
• 29:37
  Speaker 3: for an emergency session to consider the background check legislation.
• 29:40
  Speaker 3: No Senate votes are currently scheduled until September. Also, last night,
• 29:44
  Speaker 3: the Murdoch-owned New York Post came out for a ban
• 29:48
  Speaker 3: on assault weapons, which is somewhat surprising. Is it worth
• 29:52
  Speaker 3: pushing McConnell to take up the House bill what should
• 29:56
  Speaker 3: be happening right now?
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 29:58
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 29:58
  Speaker 5: Because we are only able to focus on things politically
• 30:01
  Speaker 5: for a few days at a time, and we should
• 30:03
  Speaker 5: focus maximum attention on this issue and the fact that
• 30:07
  Speaker 5: the House has passed some legislation that would help. I mean,
• 30:10
  Speaker 5: I'd like to see them go a lot farther. I
• 30:12
  Speaker 5: would like to see reinstating the assault weapons ban, a
• 30:15
  Speaker 5: gun buyback program. There's no reason these high-capacity magazines should
• 30:19
  Speaker 5: ever be sold. We should have universal background checks. We
• 30:22
  Speaker 5: could raise... the age where you can buy a gun
• 30:25
  Speaker 5: from 18 to 21, and then maybe a law that
• 30:27
  Speaker 5: says you can't own a gun if you're convicted of
• 30:29
  Speaker 5: domestic violence. These are all things that I think would
• 30:33
  Speaker 5: help us make progress.
• 30:34
  Speaker 3: And I think gun licensing, too, I would add to
• 30:36
  Speaker 3: the Cory Booker's proposal.
• 30:38
  Speaker 5: But we have to focus the nation's attention on the
• 30:41
  Speaker 5: problem and the solutions at the same time, or else
• 30:44
  Speaker 5: we're all just going to feel nihilistic.
• 30:47
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 30:47
  Speaker 3: I mean, look, I also saw some people... David Plouffe
• 30:50
  Speaker 3: said this on Twitter, but he was saying the House...
• 30:52
  Speaker 3: I know the House already passed the legislation, but go
• 30:55
  Speaker 3: back in session. Bring the House back in session. Make
• 30:57
  Speaker 3: a big show of it on the floor. I mean, and,
• 31:00
  Speaker 3: you know, I saw that House Democrats don't necessarily want
• 31:02
  Speaker 3: to do that because they want to make sure the
• 31:03
  Speaker 3: focus is on the Senate and whatever. You can think
• 31:06
  Speaker 3: yourself into circles through this. Just pass the bill. Well,
• 31:09
  Speaker 3: Democrats need to understand, and I think this is our
• 31:12
  Speaker 3: problem with impeachment too, right, that 90% of this is.
• 31:16
  Speaker 3: Performance here is taking a moment like this and showing
• 31:20
  Speaker 3: up and saying, I'm going to fucking fight. Even if
• 31:23
  Speaker 3: you know there's not a path. Do we think that
• 31:24
  Speaker 3: there's a world where Mitch McConnell and Donald Trump are
• 31:28
  Speaker 3: going to sign on to gun safety legislation? Probably not.
• 31:32
  Speaker 3: But fucking fight. Show that you're fighting. Do some things
• 31:35
  Speaker 3: that seem out of the ordinary. If you think this
• 31:38
  Speaker 3: is a national crisis, act like this is a national crisis.
• 31:41
  Speaker 3: Bring the House back. Protest outside Senate offices.
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: Do it all.
• 31:46
  Speaker 3: And.
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: and do it at a moment we see republicans believing
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: that they have a political problem they are a group
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: of people.
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: Donald trump talked about gun safety legislation today.
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: Donald trump repeatedly over the past few months specifically has
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: accidentally said he was for various kinds of gun control
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: before apparently being told behind the scenes that that was
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: not palatable to the people uh... who support him so
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: in in in congress so They recognize that they have
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: a political problem on their hands. They don't like the
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: political position that they are in on guns. This is
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: a moment to push them, even if it may not
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: ultimately lead to passing of a bill. This is a
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: moment to move the issue forward. We have seen a
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: few moments where that has happened. It happened after Parkland,
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: and it seems as though it could happen now that
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: we could move the issue forward.
• 32:37
  Speaker 3: Make these senators take the votes, or at least put
• 32:40
  Speaker 3: the pressure on them. Cory Gardner... is up, a senator
• 32:43
  Speaker 3: from Colorado in 2020.
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: Colorado has very strict gun laws.
• 32:47
  Speaker 3: Cory Gardner does not want to take a vote against
• 32:49
  Speaker 3: gun safety legislation when he's up in 2020. Susan Collins
• 32:53
  Speaker 3: is up in 2020. Make her take the vote, right?
• 32:54
  Speaker 3: There are senators up. There's places that we can apply
• 32:57
  Speaker 3: pressure right now.
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 32:59
  Speaker 5: Look, I was very dark and depressed this weekend, and
• 33:03
  Speaker 5: it is easy to feel like we've been through this
• 33:06
  Speaker 5: before and nothing will change. But if we approach the
• 33:09
  Speaker 5: problem with that mentality, we're guaranteeing it. The country as
• 33:12
  Speaker 5: a whole supports these policies. The problem is gerrymandered districts,
• 33:17
  Speaker 5: a Senate that's messed up, and terrible Republican senators. We
• 33:21
  Speaker 5: need to put maximum political pressure on them. And we
• 33:24
  Speaker 5: all have agency in this fight. We all can call
• 33:27
  Speaker 5: members of Congress, donate money to organizations, raise awareness about
• 33:31
  Speaker 5: Senate candidates.
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: We have to start fighting for this stuff. Yeah, and
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: the fight is not futile here.
• 33:35
  Speaker 3: I mean, you know, Shannon Watts of Moms Demand Action
• 33:38
  Speaker 3: always reminds us, you know, gun control advocates have had
• 33:41
  Speaker 3: a lot of victories on state level, local level over
• 33:44
  Speaker 3: the last two years. They've not only stopped a lot
• 33:46
  Speaker 3: of really bad bills from becoming law, like concealed carry shit,
• 33:50
  Speaker 3: but they've also passed gun safety laws in states all
• 33:52
  Speaker 3: across the country. The problem is at the federal level.
• 33:55
  Speaker 3: And it starts with getting Donald Trump out of office,
• 33:58
  Speaker 3: and then it goes to flipping the Senate. And, you know,
• 34:02
  Speaker 3: go to votesaveamerica.com slash getmitch. As Brian Schatz says in Hawaii,
• 34:07
  Speaker 3: you know, adopt a Senate race that's your favorite race.
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: Colorado, Arizona, Maine, those are the big three.
• 34:15
  Speaker 3: Help Doug Jones stay in office in Alabama, hopefully North
• 34:18
  Speaker 3: Carolina and Iowa, and then maybe Texas and Georgia. Those
• 34:21
  Speaker 3: are the states that people should be focusing on right now.
• 34:33
  Speaker 3: So I want to end by talking about the response
• 34:34
  Speaker 3: from the Democratic presidential candidates and how these incidents should
• 34:37
  Speaker 3: factor into the campaign. Most, if not all, the candidates
• 34:40
  Speaker 3: tied the shootings to Trump's rhetoric while calling for gun control.
• 34:43
  Speaker 3: Beto O'Rourke, who I'm going to be talking to in
• 34:44
  Speaker 3: a second, traveled back to his hometown in El Paso
• 34:47
  Speaker 3: and said that he believes Trump is a white nationalist.
• 34:49
  Speaker 3: Pete Buttigieg said, quote, at best, he's condoning and encouraging
• 34:52
  Speaker 3: white nationalism. Cory Booker said Donald Trump is responsible for
• 34:55
  Speaker 3: this because he's stoking fears and hatred and bigotry. Kamala
• 34:57
  Speaker 3: Harris said he's emboldening white nationalism. Elizabeth Warren said we
• 35:00
  Speaker 3: need to call out white nationalism for what it is,
• 35:02
  Speaker 3: domestic terrorism. And Joe Biden tweeted, we can't fix a
• 35:04
  Speaker 3: problem if we refuse to name it white nationalism. What
• 35:07
  Speaker 3: did you guys think of the response from the Democratic candidates?
• 35:10
  Speaker 3: Are they meeting this moment?
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: I think so.
• 35:13
  Speaker 5: I mean, I think that there was a sense in
• 35:16
  Speaker 5: Washington that it was uncivil, maybe, to blame politicians in
• 35:22
  Speaker 5: the wake of these sorts of incidents. And I'm glad
• 35:24
  Speaker 5: we have done away with that absurd belief. I mean,
• 35:28
  Speaker 5: it's time to call out what Trump is doing. It's
• 35:31
  Speaker 5: time to state as as fact that he is a
• 35:34
  Speaker 5: white nationalist and that he is inciting people like this
• 35:38
  Speaker 5: individual who shot up the Walmart in El Paso to
• 35:42
  Speaker 5: take action.
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: And so good for them. Call them out.
• 35:45
  Speaker 5: These are facts, and we need to make an argument
• 35:47
  Speaker 5: and convince people because that is part of how we're
• 35:49
  Speaker 5: going to beat them.
• 35:52
  Speaker 3: Our friend Cornell Belcher, who was one of President Obama's pollsters,
• 35:56
  Speaker 3: tweeted this over the weekend. 2020 election shouldn't be about
• 35:59
  Speaker 3: health care. It must be about the heart and soul
• 36:01
  Speaker 3: of this country, who we are as a people morally,
• 36:03
  Speaker 3: and who we want to be going forward. All the
• 36:05
  Speaker 3: Democratic candidates must get bigger in this moment, not narrower.
• 36:08
  Speaker 3: The candidate with the biggest moral vision wins.
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: What do you think about that advice?
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: I think it is valuable in this moment to recognize
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: the scale of the crisis that we are in as
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: a country. And it is always a good reminder that
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: when presidential candidates go big, when they speak to the
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: broad grand challenge facing the country and their vision of
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: how we can actually meet it, it tends to be
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: what we respond to as leadership. It's what we see
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: as someone rising to the occasion. I am glad that
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: they are calling out white nationalism in the president. I
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: am glad that they are doing that. I do believe
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: it is both the right thing to do. It is
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: also clearly what their politics dictate that.
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: They should do.
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: But I do view there is a kind of deeper
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: crisis that is hard to talk about in these moments.
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: We're talking about what happened in El Paso. We don't
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: know the motivation of what happened in Dayton, right? So
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: we have these competing and overlapping enormous crises in front
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: of us. One of them is white nationalism. One of
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: them is the availability, the accessibility of weapons of mass
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: destruction where people can kill dozens of people in a
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: few moments.
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: But there is this other.
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: Virus in our culture, which is a poisonous idea that
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: has grabbed hold in the minds of young men, that
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: is spread online, that is spread through sensationalistic media coverage,
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: that has taught boys and men that they can go
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: out in a blaze of glory. And we need to
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: speak to that crisis. And it is in some ways
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: independent from white nationalism and in some ways independent from
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: the gun crisis. When they look at the research over
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: the last decades of mass shootings that have erupted in
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: this country, These are people that have experienced trauma in
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: their lives. These are people at an identifiable crisis point
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: in their lives. And these are people who have studied
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: the motivations and sought validations based on what other mass
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: shooters have done. That is an area that we need
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: to be talking about more because it speaks to a
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: deeper turmoil in our society.
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: So I agree.
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: So when we talk about going big, it's not just
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: about talking about Trump. It's about talking about these larger
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: forces that are playing out every single day. Yeah, and look,
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: I've got to be honest, I don't know if it's
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: a deeper moral problem in our society or if it's
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: there was one mass shooting and a bunch of kids
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: saw it and now they're just copycatting it forever, which
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: to me speaks to why we need to move quickly
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: to get these fucking guns out of their hands. Because
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: if these kids don't have access to AR-15s and 100-round magazines,
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: this doesn't happen.
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: It doesn't happen.
• 38:45
  Speaker 3: I mean, I saw that from Cornell and I started
• 38:48
  Speaker 3: thinking about sort of the feeling that we had after
• 38:51
  Speaker 3: the last Democratic primary debate. You know, and it was
• 38:55
  Speaker 3: a feeling that maybe these were arguing over issues. Everything
• 38:59
  Speaker 3: seems very small, and there's this very much larger looming
• 39:02
  Speaker 3: threat out there. And, you know, we saw this when
• 39:06
  Speaker 3: Trump told those four congresswomen to go back home, and
• 39:10
  Speaker 3: then he attacked Elijah Cummings. And every time this happens,
• 39:14
  Speaker 3: you get some group of Democratic strategists and pundits who say, okay,
• 39:18
  Speaker 3: but he wants the race to be about race and
• 39:21
  Speaker 3: immigration and white identity, and we need to pivot to
• 39:25
  Speaker 3: talk about economic issues. And I'll be honest, as long
• 39:28
  Speaker 3: as I've been in politics, I understand the value of
• 39:32
  Speaker 3: trying to build a winning coalition that is a majority
• 39:36
  Speaker 3: by focusing on a lot of these economic issues, because
• 39:40
  Speaker 3: that's how you build a bigger coalition. There's a reason
• 39:42
  Speaker 3: Elizabeth Warren's wealth tax polls at 70% and even has
• 39:46
  Speaker 3: a majority of Republicans who agree. There's a reason that
• 39:49
  Speaker 3: In 2018, Democrats could win because they focused on healthcare
• 39:53
  Speaker 3: because the affordable care act was so popular and taking
• 39:55
  Speaker 3: away pre-existing conditions was something that was unpopular, even with Republicans, right? Like,
• 39:59
  Speaker 3: it is tempting to look at the polls, to look
• 40:02
  Speaker 3: at the data, and to hear from people who are
• 40:03
  Speaker 3: struggling and to make this whole thing about economic issues.
• 40:06
  Speaker 3: But that is not the fight that we're facing right now, fundamentally. Yes,
• 40:10
  Speaker 3: we're facing, like, deep economic inequality, and that plays into
• 40:14
  Speaker 3: a lot of the stuff that we're talking about as well.
• 40:16
  Speaker 3: But because Donald Trump is president, We are faced with
• 40:21
  Speaker 3: a different kind of existential crisis in this country, and
• 40:25
  Speaker 3: it is a threat to the existence of our democracy itself.
• 40:27
  Speaker 3: And so I do think, like, whether or not it's
• 40:30
  Speaker 3: the politically popular fight to have, it's the fight that
• 40:34
  Speaker 3: we need to wage at this point.
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: I really believe it. I mean, I just, I would.
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: And I've never been someone who thought that, you know,
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: I just.
• 40:42
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: I also do think one facet of how these, as
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: these mass shootings unfold that I think is tied into
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: this larger question of our democracy is there's a real
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: sense of powerlessness. You see this happening and you think,
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: I'm voting for the people that they're going to try
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: to stop it. And these Republicans are able to, in
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: part by fomenting racism itself, maintain the power that allows
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: them to stop the laws that might keep the guns
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: out of the hands doing these very murders.
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: It is heartbreaking.
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: And exhausting. And so just the other thing I think
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: we do need to keep in mind is it is
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: not inevitable that mass shootings happen week after week after week.
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: There is research that has looked at what is causing this.
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: We can tackle each of the causes and reduce the
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: frequency of mass violence in this country. It is a
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: genuinely solvable crisis. And I think sometimes I want presidential
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: candidates to say that as well, to not just attack Trump,
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: as important that is, not even just to speak to
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: the crisis of white nationalism, but say to Americans that
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: feel heartbroken and hopeless that we can solve this.
• 41:46
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 41:47
  Speaker 5: When it comes to the gun issue, it's definitely not
• 41:49
  Speaker 5: a Trump problem. It's a Republican Party problem.
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: That's right. Right.
• 41:53
  Speaker 5: I mean, there was a moment in the White House
• 41:55
  Speaker 5: when we were all there where there was a military
• 41:58
  Speaker 5: exercise going on called Jade Helm. And it led to
• 42:01
  Speaker 5: these sort of paranoid fever dreams that the military was
• 42:04
  Speaker 5: going to invade Texas and, like, I guess take people's
• 42:06
  Speaker 5: guns away or do whatever people think is going.
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: To happen in these paranoid fever dreams.
• 42:11
  Speaker 5: And the Republican governor of Texas gave credence to these
• 42:16
  Speaker 5: insane conspiracy theories. And that kind of political cowardice and
• 42:22
  Speaker 5: the inability to stand up to a bunch of base
• 42:25
  Speaker 5: voters in your own state and say, of course, the
• 42:28
  Speaker 5: fucking federal government is going to evade you.
• 42:30
  Speaker 4: Of course, the U.S.
• 42:30
  Speaker 5: Military isn't here to invade your community. You don't have
• 42:34
  Speaker 5: to stockpile guns and become your own mini militia to
• 42:38
  Speaker 5: prevent against this thing. That is a massive failing. on
• 42:41
  Speaker 5: the part of the Republican Party, in part because they're
• 42:44
  Speaker 5: working in concert with a bunch of gun manufacturers who
• 42:46
  Speaker 5: know that the reason they make money is because one
• 42:50
  Speaker 5: guy buys 25 guns, not because 25 people buy one gun.
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: So they need to fix that shit.
• 42:56
  Speaker 3: Look, I mean, last thing I'll say, and then we'll
• 42:59
  Speaker 3: go to the Beto interview, but, you know, the way
• 43:02
  Speaker 3: things go, this will sadly fade from the headlines in
• 43:07
  Speaker 3: a couple weeks, but people should remember.
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: like, how you feel right now.
• 43:13
  Speaker 3: And inevitably, when there's another round of Democratic infighting or
• 43:18
  Speaker 3: the next primary debate and everyone's upset and everyone's yelling
• 43:21
  Speaker 3: at each other on Twitter about something fucking stupid, you know,
• 43:25
  Speaker 3: what happens in this election in 2020 matters so much.
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: So much.
• 43:32
  Speaker 4: You know?
• 43:32
  Speaker 3: And I think everyone's got to just, like, keep, the
• 43:35
  Speaker 3: anger that you have today, the frustration you have today, like,
• 43:40
  Speaker 3: Come back to that in the days and months ahead
• 43:42
  Speaker 3: because it's going to be a long time between now
• 43:44
  Speaker 3: and November 2020. And just remember that and make sure
• 43:47
  Speaker 3: that that helps you get off the couch, make the
• 43:50
  Speaker 3: phone calls, knock on doors because we have to win. Yeah.
• 43:53
  Speaker 5: Donate money to a candidate today to express your rage.
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: That's what I'm going to do.
• 43:59
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: And go knock on some doors and go down to
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: a candidate's headquarters. Get involved. It'll make you feel better.
• 44:04
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 44:05
  Speaker 3: When we come back, my interview with Congressman Beto O'Rourke.
• 44:16
  Speaker 3: On the pod today, former congressman and current Democratic presidential
• 44:20
  Speaker 3: candidate Beto O'Rourke. Beto, how are you doing and how's
• 44:23
  Speaker 3: El Paso doing right now? I know you met some
• 44:27
  Speaker 3: victims' family members on your flight back and then went
• 44:29
  Speaker 3: to the hospital with them over the weekend.
• 44:31
  Speaker 4: Yeah, just really amazing, extraordinarily strong people. These are people
• 44:38
  Speaker 4: who have been shot in the chest, shot in the stomach,
• 44:44
  Speaker 4: shot multiple times. These are people whose family members were
• 44:48
  Speaker 4: also shot. These are people who are coming through even
• 44:53
  Speaker 4: though they've lost somebody in their life. And it's just
• 45:00
  Speaker 4: amazing to me that they have survived. Just so powerful
• 45:06
  Speaker 4: to see everyone who is helping them to come through.
• 45:09
  Speaker 4: These doctors and nurses and first responders this entire community
• 45:15
  Speaker 4: coming together. There are literally lines around the block to
• 45:19
  Speaker 4: donate blood. Folks have been waiting in those lines for
• 45:22
  Speaker 4: days just in order to be able to help in
• 45:25
  Speaker 4: some way. This beautiful vigil that was held last night
• 45:30
  Speaker 4: in El Paso, thousands of people coming out from all
• 45:35
  Speaker 4: walks of life, every tradition of faith, from Ciudad Juarez,
• 45:39
  Speaker 4: our sister city, from El Paso, Texas. We believe of
• 45:44
  Speaker 4: the 21 who have died, seven were Mexican nationals, like
• 45:49
  Speaker 4: all of us in this community, doing their back to
• 45:53
  Speaker 4: school shopping, in this case at Walmart on the east side.
• 45:59
  Speaker 4: But there's just so much love, so much encouragement, so
• 46:02
  Speaker 4: much strength, so much power in this community right now.
• 46:06
  Speaker 4: And just a reminder of who we are at our best,
• 46:11
  Speaker 4: I hate that it has to come in the face
• 46:13
  Speaker 4: of who this country can be at its worst in
• 46:16
  Speaker 4: that killer from North Texas who came to this community
• 46:19
  Speaker 4: to do this. But I just want you to know,
• 46:21
  Speaker 4: and I want your listeners to know, El Paso is strong,
• 46:25
  Speaker 4: as strong as we have ever been. And I've never
• 46:27
  Speaker 4: been more proud of this town.
• 46:30
  Speaker 3: Well, that's very, very good to hear. You've been speaking
• 46:33
  Speaker 3: out against Trump's racism and xenophobia for a long time now.
• 46:37
  Speaker 3: But in all the time I've known you, I don't
• 46:40
  Speaker 3: think I've ever heard the anger and disgust in your
• 46:44
  Speaker 3: voice that I heard last night. How has being part
• 46:48
  Speaker 3: of a community that was the target of this terrorist
• 46:51
  Speaker 3: attack changed your perspective on what's at stake right now?
• 46:56
  Speaker 4: This has always disgusted me from probably going back seven
• 47:01
  Speaker 4: or eight years when Donald Trump was questioning whether Barack
• 47:05
  Speaker 4: Obama was born in the United States and was trafficking
• 47:09
  Speaker 4: in conspiracy theories and racism and hate. His maiden speech
• 47:15
  Speaker 4: as a candidate for the highest office in the land,
• 47:17
  Speaker 4: describing Mexican immigrants, the people in my community, the people
• 47:21
  Speaker 4: in every community in this country as rapists and criminals,
• 47:24
  Speaker 4: even though they commit crimes at a far lower rate
• 47:28
  Speaker 4: than anyone does in this country. The knowledge that on
• 47:32
  Speaker 4: the day that he signed an executive order attempting to
• 47:35
  Speaker 4: ban Muslim travel to the United States of America, The
• 47:40
  Speaker 4: mosque in Victoria, Texas was burned to the ground. The
• 47:43
  Speaker 4: kids that I meet here in El Paso, Mexican-American kids
• 47:46
  Speaker 4: who ask me, why does my president hate me? Children
• 47:51
  Speaker 4: I've met who are Muslims throughout this country who are
• 47:53
  Speaker 4: asking their parents the same thing. But for what happened
• 48:00
  Speaker 4: on Saturday in El Paso, the direct connection in the
• 48:06
  Speaker 4: killer's manifesto to exactly what President Trump has been saying,
• 48:11
  Speaker 4: warning of invasions, not once, not twice, many, many times over,
• 48:16
  Speaker 4: talking about people as though they were an infestation, trying
• 48:21
  Speaker 4: to make us afraid of them, trying to dehumanize them,
• 48:25
  Speaker 4: the practices of this administration, keeping kids in cages, losing
• 48:29
  Speaker 4: the lives of seven children in our custody. For this
• 48:33
  Speaker 4: to come through in the way that it did on Saturday,
• 48:38
  Speaker 4: Someone so filled with this rage that the president and
• 48:42
  Speaker 4: others have riled up. And to see him focused on
• 48:48
  Speaker 4: killing those who are different because he thinks they are
• 48:51
  Speaker 4: dangerous based on that difference. Because he's been made to
• 48:54
  Speaker 4: believe that by people who want him to believe that.
• 48:57
  Speaker 4: Who want you and I and everyone in this country
• 49:00
  Speaker 4: to believe that. It has never been more clear, more urgent.
• 49:06
  Speaker 4: It's never been more dangerous than it is Right now.
• 49:09
  Speaker 4: And it's also never been more obvious that all of us,
• 49:13
  Speaker 4: regardless of any difference between us, party, geography or otherwise,
• 49:18
  Speaker 4: have to stand up against this. And if you do not,
• 49:21
  Speaker 4: and if you ask yourself or ask others, is the
• 49:24
  Speaker 4: president racist? Does he have a role in this? How
• 49:26
  Speaker 4: could this have happened? Then you as well are complicit
• 49:31
  Speaker 4: in what is taking place. This defines us. And our
• 49:35
  Speaker 4: response has to be not just standing up against all
• 49:38
  Speaker 4: of this hatred, but standing up for who we are
• 49:40
  Speaker 4: at our best. And John, for me, that's El Paso.
• 49:43
  Speaker 4: This is a city that is defined by its connection
• 49:46
  Speaker 4: with Mexico. The fact that at least a quarter of
• 49:49
  Speaker 4: those with whom we live were born in another country
• 49:52
  Speaker 4: and chose us, and by their very presence have made
• 49:55
  Speaker 4: us better. We're one of the safest cities in the
• 49:58
  Speaker 4: United States of America, and we're safe because of the
• 50:01
  Speaker 4: Mexican-Americans and immigrants from the world over who call El
• 50:04
  Speaker 4: Paso home. And I've got to say this one more thing.
• 50:08
  Speaker 4: This is a city, in some years, will have five
• 50:12
  Speaker 4: or 10 or 15 murders a year. In fact, over
• 50:14
  Speaker 4: the last 10 years, we average about 18 murders a
• 50:17
  Speaker 4: year in a city of 700,000, in a metro area
• 50:21
  Speaker 4: of about a million people, 21 lives taken in just
• 50:26
  Speaker 4: one day on Saturday. So though we have borne the
• 50:30
  Speaker 4: brunt of this hatred and this fear, we also, I think,
• 50:36
  Speaker 4: hold the answer to the direction that this country should
• 50:39
  Speaker 4: take going forward. And that's what I'm seeing in the
• 50:42
  Speaker 4: way that El Paso meets this tragedy.
• 50:44
  Speaker 3: Why do you think a lot of members of the
• 50:46
  Speaker 3: media are afraid or reluctant to acknowledge Trump's racism? Even
• 50:50
  Speaker 3: this morning, a reporter said after Trump's remarks where he
• 50:54
  Speaker 3: fucking named the wrong city in Ohio, quote, he really
• 50:57
  Speaker 3: did set a different tone than he did in the
• 50:59
  Speaker 3: past when it comes to condemning this hate.
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: What do you think is going on there?
• 51:04
  Speaker 4: I honestly don't know. And I am so beyond frustrated
• 51:10
  Speaker 4: at this point. And I'm very open to anyone who
• 51:15
  Speaker 4: has a better answer to this one than I do.
• 51:17
  Speaker 4: But when in the history of Western democracies has the
• 51:22
  Speaker 4: leader of a country described a people based on their
• 51:26
  Speaker 4: religion as inherently defective or dangerous and sought to keep
• 51:30
  Speaker 4: them out or eject them from the country? When has
• 51:34
  Speaker 4: somebody described people in the same terms that you would
• 51:37
  Speaker 4: describe a cockroach or an insect or an animal? And
• 51:42
  Speaker 4: not to do it behind closed doors, but to do
• 51:44
  Speaker 4: it publicly and to rile people up. And, you know,
• 51:49
  Speaker 4: no analogy is perfect, but that Greenville rally in North Carolina,
• 51:55
  Speaker 4: those chants of send her back were absolutely chilling. And
• 51:59
  Speaker 4: I may not have the field of reference necessary to
• 52:02
  Speaker 4: find something better to connect it to, but that's Nuremberg
• 52:06
  Speaker 4: to me. That is a leader reveling in the hatred
• 52:11
  Speaker 4: and the racism of the people that he purports to
• 52:14
  Speaker 4: serve and to lead. Sending US troops to a community
• 52:19
  Speaker 4: like mine, again, reminder, one of the safest places to
• 52:23
  Speaker 4: make you afraid of people who are coming here at
• 52:26
  Speaker 4: their most desperate, their most vulnerable moment. They've just survived
• 52:29
  Speaker 4: a 2,000 mile journey Many of them are kids who
• 52:32
  Speaker 4: don't have their parents anymore, who've traveled this on their own.
• 52:37
  Speaker 4: And to be met by troops, to be met by cages,
• 52:40
  Speaker 4: to be met by a wall, to be met not
• 52:42
  Speaker 4: just with indifference, but outright cruelty and hatred and torture,
• 52:47
  Speaker 4: that defines not just Trump. It defines all of us
• 52:50
  Speaker 4: and those members of the media if we do not
• 52:53
  Speaker 4: do something about it. So no more questions about, do
• 52:56
  Speaker 4: you think that the president is racist? do you think
• 53:00
  Speaker 4: the president had a role in these killings? Or it
• 53:02
  Speaker 4: looks like the president's trying to set a different tone.
• 53:04
  Speaker 4: Or Beto, what would you say to the president? Or
• 53:06
  Speaker 4: what do you want the president to do now? He's
• 53:09
  Speaker 4: past the point after which you just can't get this
• 53:13
  Speaker 4: back with Donald Trump or under this administration. This now
• 53:19
  Speaker 4: is on all of us. We're long past Donald Trump
• 53:22
  Speaker 4: being able to do anything different. We can pile all
• 53:26
  Speaker 4: the shame we want to on him But that shame
• 53:28
  Speaker 4: accrues to us every minute, every day, after which we
• 53:31
  Speaker 4: don't do something about it. That's where we are right now.
• 53:35
  Speaker 3: So you've said that this goes beyond Donald Trump. And,
• 53:37
  Speaker 3: you know, the next president is still going to have
• 53:39
  Speaker 3: to deal with Fox News, is still going to have
• 53:41
  Speaker 3: to deal with online platforms that are radicalizing people, especially
• 53:44
  Speaker 3: young white men. How do you even begin to stop that?
• 53:48
  Speaker 3: What do we do about this as a country?
• 53:51
  Speaker 4: I keep coming back to El Paso just because it's
• 53:54
  Speaker 4: what I know. It's where... I was born where we're
• 53:57
  Speaker 4: raising our kids right now. I just have never met
• 54:01
  Speaker 4: a kinder people who, and you and I have talked
• 54:06
  Speaker 4: about this, we don't just tolerate each other. We get
• 54:10
  Speaker 4: that our differences make us stronger. And literally, physically, everyone's
• 54:16
  Speaker 4: embracing one another, embracing those differences right now. This vigil
• 54:20
  Speaker 4: last night, this interfaith vigil, was one of the most beautiful,
• 54:24
  Speaker 4: one of the most powerful things that I have ever seen.
• 54:27
  Speaker 4: And words will fail me right now, but that ability
• 54:34
  Speaker 4: for a leader to set the tone and reflect the
• 54:38
  Speaker 4: absolute best in us. And if there is an open
• 54:42
  Speaker 4: question about whether someone or some group or some people
• 54:45
  Speaker 4: pose a threat, resoundingly, definingly answering that question to remind
• 54:52
  Speaker 4: us all that this is really the exception in world
• 54:55
  Speaker 4: history and on the face of the planet that we
• 54:58
  Speaker 4: willingly chose to define ourselves not by race, not by ethnicity,
• 55:02
  Speaker 4: not by common ancestry, not by any difference, but by
• 55:05
  Speaker 4: the fact that we were all created equal. And I
• 55:08
  Speaker 4: know that we have never fully lived up to that.
• 55:11
  Speaker 4: But this is a defining moment. This is where we
• 55:14
  Speaker 4: choose whether we were going to continue to pursue that
• 55:17
  Speaker 4: or whether we give up on the idea altogether, which
• 55:21
  Speaker 4: is really what Donald Trump is proposing today. So it's
• 55:28
  Speaker 4: a great question. I can only come back to El
• 55:29
  Speaker 4: Paso and what I see here and the way in
• 55:32
  Speaker 4: which I want to reflect that. And as you probably know,
• 55:34
  Speaker 4: I try to do that everywhere I go in the country.
• 55:37
  Speaker 4: Almost every talk that I give, every town hall, I
• 55:40
  Speaker 4: begin with where I'm from and why I find it
• 55:43
  Speaker 4: to be so beautiful and why I think it is
• 55:46
  Speaker 4: so important right now at a time that this country's
• 55:49
  Speaker 4: never been more divided or more polarized. But we also
• 55:53
  Speaker 4: have to hold people to account. Those members of Congress
• 55:58
  Speaker 4: who do not call this out, those public officials who
• 56:02
  Speaker 4: want to pat on the back for saying the phrase
• 56:05
  Speaker 4: white nationalist terrorism, but then not connecting white nationalist terrorism
• 56:09
  Speaker 4: to Donald Trump and to Fox News and to those
• 56:13
  Speaker 4: commentators who are warning of invasions and infestations and trying
• 56:18
  Speaker 4: to stoke the fear that has found a home in
• 56:20
  Speaker 4: these killers— they're part of this problem and we have
• 56:24
  Speaker 4: to hold them accountable for that. And I'm actually, I
• 56:28
  Speaker 4: don't know, this is my feeling just based on everything
• 56:31
  Speaker 4: that I've seen and heard and felt after what has
• 56:35
  Speaker 4: happened in El Paso on Saturday. I think we're gonna
• 56:37
  Speaker 4: come through as a country. This will define us, but
• 56:41
  Speaker 4: as we have in other defining moments, we're gonna come through.
• 56:44
  Speaker 4: I really believe that.
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: I hope so.
• 56:48
  Speaker 3: Two quick questions on gun control. You've proposed background checks
• 56:51
  Speaker 3: and banning assault weapons. You've been campaigning on that for
• 56:53
  Speaker 3: a long time since the Senate race. You know, a
• 56:56
  Speaker 3: lot of studies show, and studies are all over the place,
• 56:59
  Speaker 3: but most of the studies show that while those measures
• 57:01
  Speaker 3: would absolutely save lives, the most effective gun control measures
• 57:05
  Speaker 3: have been gun licenses and mandatory buyback programs like they
• 57:08
  Speaker 3: did in Australia.
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: Would you be open to those proposals as president?
• 57:12
  Speaker 4: Yes, and I'm open to them right now as a candidate.
• 57:16
  Speaker 4: Absolutely has to be part of the conversation today. And
• 57:19
  Speaker 4: if at the end of the day, it's going to
• 57:21
  Speaker 4: save lives, if it's going to prevent the kind of
• 57:24
  Speaker 4: tragedies that we saw in El Paso or Gilroy or
• 57:28
  Speaker 4: Dayton or this weekend in Chicago or all over this
• 57:32
  Speaker 4: country on a daily basis, then let's move forward and
• 57:36
  Speaker 4: do it. I know that when we define the right thing,
• 57:40
  Speaker 4: the goal, we will find the political will to get there.
• 57:44
  Speaker 4: And I know it's not easy. And listen, I come
• 57:45
  Speaker 4: from Texas and this is a very proud country. gun-owning state,
• 57:49
  Speaker 4: but I know from listening to people in Texas, gun owners, Republicans,
• 57:54
  Speaker 4: non-gun owners, Democrats, Independents, everyone, people want to make sure
• 57:59
  Speaker 4: that their kids are okay, that their families are safe,
• 58:03
  Speaker 4: that their children don't fear the future or going to
• 58:07
  Speaker 4: school or being at a concert or going to Walmart
• 58:11
  Speaker 4: on a Saturday morning. So Yeah, absolutely. And I got
• 58:16
  Speaker 4: to tell you, I'm really grateful for those members of Congress,
• 58:21
  Speaker 4: those candidates, those people who are leading on this issue.
• 58:27
  Speaker 4: I think about the moms, the moms who demand action.
• 58:30
  Speaker 4: I've met them all over Texas, all over this country.
• 58:33
  Speaker 4: So many of whom have lost a child and in
• 58:36
  Speaker 4: the face of that are going to do everything they
• 58:38
  Speaker 4: can to make sure that no other mother feels what
• 58:40
  Speaker 4: they do. Yesterday in El Paso, we got to see
• 58:46
  Speaker 4: the family of Joaquin, who was killed at Marjory Stoneman
• 58:51
  Speaker 4: Douglas in Parkland, Florida. His dad, Manuel, his mom, Patricia, Oliver,
• 58:59
  Speaker 4: were both here to celebrate his 19th birthday. And they
• 59:02
  Speaker 4: and some of the students marching for our lives we
• 59:05
  Speaker 4: met one of the co-founders of that movement, that they're
• 59:09
  Speaker 4: going to force us, this country, to do the right thing. So, yes,
• 59:14
  Speaker 4: let's do it. And just grateful for everyone who's leading
• 59:17
  Speaker 4: on this.
• 59:19
  Speaker 3: And, you know, if you're president, if you have a
• 59:21
  Speaker 3: Democratic Senate, it still seems like the only way we're
• 59:25
  Speaker 3: going to get gun control legislation passed is by eliminating
• 59:29
  Speaker 3: the filibuster, would you push the senators to do that
• 59:33
  Speaker 3: if you're president so we can actually get some of
• 59:35
  Speaker 3: these gun proposals passed?
• 59:36
  Speaker 4: Yes. But I also, the answer is yes, period. But
• 59:41
  Speaker 4: I'd like to add this. I was thinking about how
• 59:46
  Speaker 4: you get something like this done despite all of the efforts,
• 59:51
  Speaker 4: all of the attempts, the stonewalling, the silence, the complicity.
• 59:56
  Speaker 4: And I really keep coming back to those big civil
• 59:59
  Speaker 4: rights changes that we saw in the 1960s, where you
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 4: overcame Robert Byrd and his filibuster in the Senate, and
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 4: you did that because the conscience of this country had
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 4: been shocked by what they were seeing, kids leading the
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 4: crusade in Birmingham, the Freedom Riders, John Lewis, everyone who
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 4: is willing to put their life on the line, many
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 4: who lost their lives in the process. It's that kind
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 4: of movement that I see beginning in this country right now. Again,
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 4: those moms, those students, those people from all walks of
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 4: life who are doing this. So yes, get rid of
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 4: the filibuster. Make sure that we are able to achieve
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 4: this goal. But even in the face of the filibuster,
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 4: I know that this country is strong enough because we've
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 4: demonstrated it before. And if ever we were counting on
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 4: one another, it is now.
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 3: So Trump's made it pretty clear that he wants this
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 3: election to be about race and immigration and white identity.
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 3: This makes some Democratic strategists and pundits nervous who think
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 3: that winning requires us to do what a lot of
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 3: candidates did in 2018 and make the campaign about people's
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 3: economic concerns like health care.
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 1: What do you think about this?
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 4: You'll remember his name as a gentleman who just wrote
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 4: a piece about the election against David Duke. and how
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 4: there was this temptation to, you know, let's keep this
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 4: about kitchen table issues and let's not get into race.
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 4: It makes people uncomfortable. It's not a winner. But they
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 4: came to the conclusion that if you do not call
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 4: this stuff out, then people can be forgiven for wondering, well, look,
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 4: if the Democrat's not saying that this guy is a racist,
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 4: then maybe he's not. He keeps telling us that he's
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 4: not a racist, though he's saying all this shit. So
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 4: maybe he's not a racist. The Democrat won't even say that.
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 4: I think we're faced with a similar opportunity right now.
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 4: We can continue to ignore this racism and this path
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 4: towards fascism that we're on right now with this president
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 4: and instead focus on other issues. They're very important in
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 4: their own right, but they are not as existential to
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 4: this democracy, the future of this country, and the lives
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 4: of the people in our lives as we just saw
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 4: in El Paso. as this racism and this hatred and
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 4: a president who pits us against one another. So we
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 4: must absolutely call this out and forget the polling on
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 4: this or even your own prospects in the next election.
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 4: Do the right thing and the polls and everything else
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 4: will follow. I'm confident of it. But if we fail
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 4: to do that on all of us, we ignore it
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 4: at our peril and there's never been a more perilous moment,
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 4: at least in my life in this country. And so
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 4: let's do the right thing. Um, and, uh, and, and
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 4: I think that if we needed any clarity that was
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 4: clarified for all of us on, on Saturday.
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 3: So last question, and, and, you know, I'll be honest,
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 3: this is one that I struggle with myself, you know,
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 3: since your Senate campaign, you've talked about going everywhere, speaking
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 3: to everyone, including everyone, bringing the country together, which.
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 1: You know, I, I love that message. Um, How do
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 1: you do that?
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 3: What language do you use to do that when at
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 3: least 40% of our fellow Americans still support the man
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 3: you've rightly, in my opinion, called a white nationalist? Where
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 3: do you begin to reconcile those two things?
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 4: I don't know, John. I often come back to Lincoln's
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 4: second inaugural when I'm thinking about this. And in the
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 4: midst of the Civil War, what was not yet completely over,
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 4: after the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people, deciding
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 4: the fate of the institution of slavery and really the
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 4: future of this country, his ability to focus on bringing
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 4: the country back together and saying, look, let's not judge,
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 4: but what the fuck are you thinking if you are
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 4: able to to win your bread through the sweat of
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 4: those who've been enslaved. Maybe what has just happened in
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 4: this country is there are the wages of this sin.
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 4: We are gonna pay this back until every single drop
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 4: of blood has been repaid. Understanding this is a reckoning,
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 4: not just for the South, not just for the Confederacy,
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 4: but for the entire country, which was complicit in the
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 4: institution of slavery. Um, and I think to some degree, um, there's,
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 4: there's that moment right now in, in this country. Certainly, um,
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 4: Donald Trump is responsible and culpable. Um, certainly those who,
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 4: who aid and abet what he's doing in positions of power,
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 4: including the Congress are, are part of this as well.
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 4: Those who chant send her back, uh, absolutely. But, but
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 4: perhaps to some degree, all of us who willfully turned
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 4: a blind eye to the racism that's existed in this
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 4: country for as long as we've been alive. The projection
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 4: of our fears on Mexican immigrants, for example, right here
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 4: at the U.S.-Mexico border that did not begin with Donald
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 4: Trump certainly has escalated under his administration in the most
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 4: malicious way. But maybe there's a way to help bring
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 4: this country together by acknowledging that we all had some
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 4: part in producing the conditions that exist right now. And
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 4: this is why this question is so hard, John. I
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 4: do not mean to say that there is some kind
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 4: of equivalency here, because there absolutely is not. And I
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 4: hope I've been very clear about who is responsible. But
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 4: in terms of coming back together again, after being as
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 4: divided as we've ever been, perhaps since Lincoln's time, I
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 4: think all of us having the humility of acknowledging and
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 4: understanding our role in this. And then having done that,
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 4: understanding that now we're on the line and it's on
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 4: us to do the right thing. I think that's the
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 4: best possible path forward for us.
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 3: Beto, thank you so much for joining us today. And
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 3: please give our love to everyone in El Paso. And
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 3: thank you for speaking up and meeting this moment.
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 4: Thank you, John.
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 1: Well, that was fun. Yes, yes it was. Thank you, Beto,
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 1: for joining us. I want to make just two quick
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 1: pitches for things people should read. Cool.
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 2: You know, I was finding myself just, it's such a
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 2: big and scary topic, but LA Times, Gillian Peterson and
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 2: James Densley are two researchers that have looked into mass
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 2: shootings since the 1960s. I refer to a lot of
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 2: what they were discussing. You should read the piece there.
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 2: And I would follow Zeynep Tufekci on Twitter. She is
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 2: one of the smartest people on the social contagion and
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 2: the way this is covered. So if you're just looking
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 2: for people to read and find smart, data-driven information about this,
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 2: I would start there.
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 3: Excellent.
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 1: All right, everyone, we'll talk to you on Thursday.
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 6: Pod Save America is a product of Crooked Media. The
• 1:07:16
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• 1:07:19
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• 1:07:23
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• 1:07:26
  Speaker 6: and to.
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 1: Our digital team, Elijah Cohn.
• 1:07:28
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• 1:07:31
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