Latest / LifeAudio / Crosswalk Talk: Celebrity Christian Interviews - Do Not Lose Yourself in Your Cause When the Country Is Divided | Charles Esten

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Crosswalk Talk: Celebrity Christian Interviews - Do Not Lose Yourself in Your Cause When the Country Is Divided | Charles Esten · LifeAudio

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Life Audio.
• 0:04
  Speaker 2: Hey, Charles, thanks for joining me. Thank you for having me.
• 0:07
  Speaker 2: I appreciate it. Actor Charles Esten.
• 0:09
  Speaker 3: Known for roles in Outer Banks and Nashville, currently starring
• 0:13
  Speaker 3: as King Ross on Homestead, the series for Angel Studios,
• 0:15
  Speaker 3: and also as part of another Angel project.
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: The movie Drummer Boy. Everybody I've talked.
• 0:20
  Speaker 3: To says this is amazing, so I'm looking forward to
• 0:21
  Speaker 3: watching it. It's a story of America's fight for independence.
• 0:24
  Speaker 3: Joel Smallbone for King Country is in it. His brothers
• 0:28
  Speaker 3: are behind it. He and his brothers are behind it,
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  Speaker 3: I should say. Charles, you portray a British person, a
• 0:34
  Speaker 3: British officer.
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: Lord Balfour. I believe that's how you pronounce that.
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  Speaker 3: Tell me why you wanted to be a part of this,
• 0:41
  Speaker 3: what sparked your interest, and why you like this movie
• 0:43
  Speaker 3: so much.
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: Well, at the very beginning of it was my relationship
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: with Ben Smallbone, one of those Smallbone brothers. Ben is
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: the main director, by far, and a producer on Homestead.
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: And he and I had worked together side-by-side on two
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: seasons of Homestead, and that experience and just getting to
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: know him as a fantastic guy, but also as an
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: incredible storyteller and both in terms of helping make the
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: scenes of Homestead work. And he put so much heart
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: and hard, hard work into that one that we became
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: real close. And then he had been telling me along
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: the way about this project they'd been working on for years.
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: People don't know a Homestead drummer boy. It's not a
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: new project that just up and got made. There was
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: a whole lot of heart, a whole lot of time
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  Speaker 1: and waiting and Writing for the Right Moment, ultimately, I
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: think it was the perfect moment when you sort of
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: look and go, it's the 250th anniversary of our country.
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  Speaker 1: So it's probably the right time for it to have
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: come out. So he was the first connection to it.
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  Speaker 1: And then he sent me, and of course, I knew
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: for King and Country, which are his brothers, Joel and Luke.
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: And he sent me the script.
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  Speaker 2: And the songs.
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  Speaker 1: And the songs are easier to listen to than read
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: a script. So I listened to the songs first. Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: And I'm also, I love music. I'm a singer-songwriter myself.
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: And I was like, whoa, wow. If this script is
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: half good, this is going to be great.
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: And this script is way more than half good. I
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: really enjoyed it.
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  Speaker 1: And then on top of that, to get to play
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  Speaker 1: the bang-on bad guy, your antagonist there. But not just that,
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: but in this career of mine that has been going
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: on for a while now, it's very cool to get
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: to do something unlike anything I've ever done. And a
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: revolutionary war musical where i play a british officer and
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: british lord on horseback an awful lot that is different
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  Speaker 1: i can tell you then there's there's no other project
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  Speaker 1: i think that is sort of like this one so
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  Speaker 1: for all those reasons i was i was really thrilled
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  Speaker 1: to get to do it.
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  Speaker 4: I'm a big fan of musicals and i'm a big
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  Speaker 4: fan of history so this is kind of like perfect
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  Speaker 4: intersection of my interests.
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  Speaker 1: Well, I grew up in Alexandria, Virginia, right across the
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  Speaker 1: river from Washington, D.C., right down the river from Mount Vernon, where,
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: of course, George Washington lived. And it was King Street
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: right down by the river. It's still extraordinary colonial.
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  Speaker 2: It's brick and all.
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  Speaker 1: And then I went to school in William and Mary,
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  Speaker 1: which was, of course, right down the road is Jamestown.
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  Speaker 2: Where it was founded, but from.
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  Speaker 1: Yorktown, just up the road. It was the capital of
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: the states for a while there. And the Civil War
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  Speaker 1: happened a lot around there as well. So, Growing up
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  Speaker 1: in Virginia, as I did, I was steeped in that
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  Speaker 1: history and a big fan of it as well.
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  Speaker 2: So that was another great reason. Absolutely. Tell me about
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  Speaker 2: your character.
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  Speaker 3: It's my understanding that this film portrays what was actually
• 3:33
  Speaker 3: real during the Revolutionary War, which is families were divided.
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  Speaker 3: This war divided families, divided towns, and it certainly wasn't
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  Speaker 3: the fact that everybody's opposing the British.
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  Speaker 2: Of course.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: A lot of people were loyalists and Well, of.
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  Speaker 1: Course, in other words, it's funny because we look back
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  Speaker 1: now and it's obviously who is good and who is
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  Speaker 1: bad in terms of, you know, history gets written by
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  Speaker 1: the victors kind of a thing. But it was clear
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  Speaker 1: for me to see that if you had come here
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: as a member of England, as a member of an
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  Speaker 1: English lord and loyal to the king and that's how
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  Speaker 1: you came across and that's how you got your property
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  Speaker 1: and that's how you raised your family. And yes, here
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  Speaker 1: comes some things that maybe we don't agree with and
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: here comes some, but And then the rebellion starts. It
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  Speaker 1: wasn't that hard for me to wrap my head around
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  Speaker 1: why somebody like Lord Balfour would consider it wrong to
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  Speaker 1: be disloyal to the very crown that sent you. What's
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: so interesting and good about the story is that these
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  Speaker 1: two brothers, whose father died on the trip over, my
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  Speaker 1: character is on that trip as well, we are attacked
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  Speaker 1: by a French ship because we are an English ship.
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  Speaker 1: So the one brother has every right to say, And
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: this is the brother, of course, played by Joel. This
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  Speaker 1: is Jeremiah, has every right to say, our father died
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  Speaker 1: defending the British flag. Why in the world would we
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  Speaker 1: attack it now? But his other brother has every right
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  Speaker 1: to say, Benjamin Clinton, played wonderfully by Lucas Leach, has
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  Speaker 1: every right to say, yes, but our father was seeking
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  Speaker 1: a new world and seeking the freedom that this could offer.
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  Speaker 1: So I love any argument or any on screen where
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  Speaker 1: both of the people are ostensibly right. It's not like
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  Speaker 1: one of them was terribly wrong. But both of them,
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  Speaker 1: and of course, that's the story as old as the
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  Speaker 1: Bible itself, Cain and Abel, the first real story of
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  Speaker 1: the Bible after the Garden of Eden. So that kind
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  Speaker 1: of thing happens. And I've seen that story before in
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  Speaker 1: Civil War, brothers, on both sides of that one, when
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  Speaker 1: a country itself was split. But in a real sense,
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: a country was split. These were English colonies. So like
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: you say, that's a really, really great place to explore larger, big,
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  Speaker 1: global battlefield issues that also come down to two brothers
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: facing off in their discussions and all these things. So
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: the bigness of it, the smallness of it, that kind
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  Speaker 1: of world, it's very attractive. And then I'll add on
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  Speaker 1: top of that the music. So, yeah, it's wonderful.
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 3: Like I said, I haven't seen this yet, but everybody,
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  Speaker 3: every media person I speak with tell me it's fantastic.
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  Speaker 2: So I just want to tell them.
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  Speaker 1: I haven't seen it either, but I've been hearing the
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  Speaker 1: same thing.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 3: What do you hope Dremel Boy reminds audiences about our
• 6:15
  Speaker 3: nation's founding? I mean, that's a big question, but we're
• 6:18
  Speaker 3: celebrating our 250th birthday this year, and there's a lot
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  Speaker 3: to celebrate. Do you have any thoughts there?
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  Speaker 2: Sure, yeah.
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  Speaker 1: I think, you know, everybody talks about how divided we
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: are at this point, and sometimes we lose our historical comparisons.
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  Speaker 2: Like, are we.
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  Speaker 1: More divided than we were during the Civil War or
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  Speaker 1: the Revolutionary War?
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  Speaker 2: Perhaps, perhaps not.
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  Speaker 1: But in any event, the story itself says in the
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  Speaker 1: middle of that, in the midst of that, you can
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  Speaker 1: be cleaved right down the middle of your family. But
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  Speaker 1: with your faith and your family and forgiveness, they're in grace.
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  Speaker 1: They're these things that are larger than these divisions that
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  Speaker 1: can heal and can bring us together again, even in
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  Speaker 1: the face of bad guys like Lord Balfour, who, by
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: the way, I call him a bad guy, and he is.
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  Speaker 1: He's the antagonist of the movie. But again, as I said,
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  Speaker 1: his reasons are not that easy to dismiss. What happens
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  Speaker 1: is these are his ends, but they don't justify his means.
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  Speaker 1: And so often we do, perhaps we do the wrong
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  Speaker 1: things for the right reasons. And so he does like
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  Speaker 1: loyalty to crown, caring for his family and the property
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  Speaker 1: and what will keep them in a good state. All
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  Speaker 1: these are good things, but when you prioritize them above
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  Speaker 1: your own character, above the things that you.
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  Speaker 2: Should and shouldn't do.
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  Speaker 1: I've said before, you can be on both sides of
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  Speaker 1: this story and still be a good man and even
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  Speaker 1: a Christian. Or you could be on both sides and
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  Speaker 1: be a bad man or be a Christian. So that
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  Speaker 1: decision is larger than this, which is important to remember.
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  Speaker 1: And so don't lose yourself in your cause. Take who
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  Speaker 1: you are in the fullness of your humanity and put
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  Speaker 1: it towards that. And hopefully that includes someone there, love
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  Speaker 1: and grace and forgiveness. My character puts himself wholeheartedly in
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  Speaker 1: the service of things that he thinks are good and
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  Speaker 1: even may be good, but he loses his goodness, his humanity,
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  Speaker 1: his heart.
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  Speaker 2: He loses those things. And that's the story, I think.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, there were definitely Christians on the both sides of
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  Speaker 3: the Revolutionary War, no doubt about that. You've enjoyed a
• 8:24
  Speaker 3: very unique career, Charles. I would call it an eclectic career.
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  Speaker 3: Comedian on whose line is it? Anyway, you sung on
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  Speaker 3: the Grand Ole Opry more than 200 times. You have albums.
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  Speaker 3: You're an actor.
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  Speaker 2: That's why we have you on here.
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  Speaker 3: Which of those interests came first for you? Comedian, singer, acting?
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  Speaker 3: That's interesting.
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  Speaker 1: I was probably a little joker first, probably trying to
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: make people laugh.
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  Speaker 2: That was easier than acting. That had not come along yet.
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  Speaker 1: Music came soon after. My mother says I was singing
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: aloud from the grocery cart. She remembers me singing Simon
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: and Garfunkel. Singing, and here's to you, Mrs.
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  Speaker 2: Robinson.
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: Jesus loves you more than you will know.
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  Speaker 2: So I don't know.
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  Speaker 1: I just listened to the radio a lot. The acting
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  Speaker 1: really didn't come along until I did one play in college,
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  Speaker 1: but I was in a band in college. So that
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: was the main one. That was the thing. But throughout that,
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: I was always sort of, I remember in like ninth grade,
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  Speaker 1: I was voted wittiest in my class. And I don't
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: say that to brag because the story is I remember
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: so clearly my mother, I'm coming home, she's like, wittiest? Wittiest?
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  Speaker 2: Why do you want, why not?
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  Speaker 3: Your friend got most likely to succeed.
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  Speaker 1: And I got wittiest. So you take what you get.
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  Speaker 2: And honestly, on a deeper level.
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  Speaker 1: Though, I think a lot of that was, my parents
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: divorced when I was young.
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  Speaker 2: And I think.
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  Speaker 1: and I had a grandmother who, while very loving, could
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: have benefits of darkness and sadness and all. So I
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: think I look back and I see a little bit
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  Speaker 1: of me trying to entertain, trying to lighten a moment. Like,
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  Speaker 1: you know, I was real good at smelling when a
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: storm was brewing down the road.
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  Speaker 2: And I think I.
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: Would step into the gap and be like, hey, everybody,
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  Speaker 1: I could juggle. You know, that kind of thing, which
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: is a lot for a kid, but I think it
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: probably honed a lot of those skills.
• 10:36
  Speaker 3: Let's talk about your Grand Ole Opry appearances. More than
• 10:39
  Speaker 3: 200 or– I don't know if it's almost 200 or
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: more than 200.
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: Almost 200.
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: Around 200. Yeah, yeah.
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  Speaker 3: What is that like each time you step on stage?
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  Speaker 2: Is it just an adrenaline rush?
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  Speaker 3: I mean, most people haven't even been on it once.
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  Speaker 3: You've been on it that many times. Why do you
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: like it so much?
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: It's the deepest, warmest thrill and honor. None of it
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: is lost on me.
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: I was raised by a father that loved country music.
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: Unfortunately, my father passed in 2009.
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: It breaks my heart that he never got to come
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: along in person and see this. I know he's watching,
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: but It would have been nice for me to see
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: his face out there. But I remember we had a particular,
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: we would drive like on vacations and I was always
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: his oldest son. So I was shotgun and rest of
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: the family sleeping in the back there. And I remember
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: one time we pulled into a gas station in the
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: middle of the night and he found this cassette tape
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: collection called Lee Cash's 50 Golden Years of Country Music.
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: And it wasn't just the songs. It was stories of,
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: about the songs told by the people.
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: Like, uh, they would tell a.
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: Hank Williams song would come along and they were talking
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: about Hank Williams. First night at the grand old Opry,
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: which was at the Ryman auditorium here in Nashville. And
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: they were talking about how, when he went into his
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: first yodel on lovesick blues, the crowd got on their
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: feet and they couldn't, they couldn't calm them down. And
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: they go, many Pearl remembers. And then you hear this
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: voice of many pro going, I heard the noise. Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: And we were all pretty proud of Hank on that day.
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  Speaker 1: So it's not just these songs. It's them telling the
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: foundational stories of the Grand Ole Opry. And then here
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: I am because I'm on the show Nashville playing this
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: guy Deacon. And I should say that Deacon got to.
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: Be on that stage first.
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: In the very first episode of Nashville, Deacon is playing
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: guitar behind Raina James on the stage of the Grand
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: Ole Opry, which was such a blessing that I got
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: to absorb it all under the mask of this other guy. And,
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: you know, you know, when you shoot one scene, you
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: shoot all day.
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: So we were out there a long time.
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: That helped me a lot for my when it was
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: finally time that they were kind enough to ask me
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: to perform there. I'd been on that stage a moment
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: that helped a little bit because, yeah, it was a
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: bit overwhelming.
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: It still is. It's one of the greatest gifts that
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: came from that show. Amen to that.
• 13:01
  Speaker 3: Let me ask you a couple of questions as we
• 13:02
  Speaker 3: close here. You hold the Guinness World Records Guinness World
• 13:06
  Speaker 3: Record title for them. I'm going to read this for
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: the most consecutive weeks to release an original digital record.
• 13:12
  Speaker 3: single by a musical act. I think 54 is the record. Well,
• 13:17
  Speaker 3: what made you want to do that? That's an incredible record.
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: It's funny because as a kid, as that little kid
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: I was telling you about, I loved the Guinness Book
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: of World Records. I was always pouring through it. I
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: was carrying it with me and trying to see how
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: many pieces of bubble gum I had to fit in
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: my mouth or how many times you had to jump
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: on a pogo stick, just trying to figure out how
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: to get in this thing. And of course, you grow up,
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: you forget that stuff. It was being in Music City.
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: A guy that had been making music his whole life
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: is finally in the town. I remember going to the
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: Bluebird Cafe and there were some songwriters there doing a
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: writer's round thinking, I need to start over. These songs
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: are so good.
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: These artists are so good. And I did.
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: I just started writing more and more songs. That's in
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: 12 that I got here. By 2016, I had released
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: two songs. And it suddenly occurred to me, and I'm
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: grateful for it, that We never knew if that show
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: was going to get another season. I thought to myself,
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: if we get canceled and I have to go home,
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: I'm going to look back on this and regret not.
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: Making the most of it.
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: There's a song on the show Nashville called A Life
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: That's Good that says, I want to look back and
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: say I did all that I could. I really resonate
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: with that. I can take any outcome as long as
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: I know I did my best. So I started saying,
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: What can I do?
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: I'm just going to dig in.
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: So I grabbed my phone and I created a deadline machine,
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: which I recommend to anybody who's creative. If it's just
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: something you're going to do and it's in your own head,
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: you can't do it that way.
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: My chair just clapped. That is so funny. That's okay.
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: People who are listening wonder what happened.
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: I was wondering what happened. You shrike.
• 14:59
  Speaker 3: People know you're bad.
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: If there's something that you really say you're going to
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: get done, tell everybody. I went online, I told on
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: my phone, I said, I'm going to release a brand
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: new single every Friday until it's stupid. And I thought
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: that I would probably do maybe 20 at the most,
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: but they just kept coming. And there's so many great
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: songwriters I could write with. And there's so many great
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: players that I could play with that they just kept coming.
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: And it was 54 weeks later, I finally said that
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: ought to do it. And I had no idea it
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: was a record. I had no idea it was a record.
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: until the Guinness people said, yeah, it was, and gave
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: me that award. I'm so grateful.
• 15:34
  Speaker 3: That's awesome. Many of those songs are about your faith.
• 15:37
  Speaker 3: You've been open about your faith.
• 15:38
  Speaker 4: I just want to ask you before we close here,
• 15:40
  Speaker 4: what role has your faith played in your life and
• 15:43
  Speaker 4: your career?
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: Because this is a faith-centric project. Homestead had a faith
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: element to it and some others. So what role has
• 15:51
  Speaker 3: faith played in your life and your career?
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: Foundational, fundamental.
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: It's the thing that undergirds everything else. None of this
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: really matters without that. So, yeah.
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: And it's interesting. I don't know how.
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: Somebody without faith could ever be, of all things, an
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: actor or a musician. It's such a hard business in
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: terms of losing faith in what you might be able
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: to do and all those. There's so many rejections and
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: humiliations along the way. If I didn't have a stronger,
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: firmer foundation for it, I don't know how folks do that,
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: and I feel for them. But not that it can't
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: be done, not that you have to be a Christian
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: to do it. I'm always saying that personally, I feel
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: I've had to rely on it so often. It's always
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: been a part of my life. Both my mother took
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: me to church growing up. My parents divorced, and my
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: mother always took me to church growing up and gave
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: me that foundational and the vocabulary, the glossary, the understanding
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: who the Bible characters were and all. and just the
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: time going and learning all the prayers and everything. My
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: father taught me more from his being born again, his
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: really realizing the things he had done wrong and how
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: they had affected him. And he found his faith later
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: in life, the deeper part of his faith, and was
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: able to share that with me too.
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: And we talked of those things all the time. And so, yeah,
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: that to me is the ultimate reality.
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: And not that, And again, it's such an odd caveat,
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: but you have to say it. So now I've got
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: it nailed and I'm the perfect Christian. I don't mean
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: that on any level. If anything, when I read the
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: Bible and it talks about how difficult it is to
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: do that, especially on our own, how impossible this life
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: is to do on our.
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: Own and how we have to, we fail again and again.
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: And in the liturgy, you say that you don't say
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: the confession once a year, you say, You say it
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: every week. And if you're doing it right, you probably
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: say it every day. We're somewhere within the Lord's prayer
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: itself is the confession. So that's almost to me a
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: very valid proof of it, that it speaks to how
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: unfaithful a heart, even a heart that believes can be
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: to these things you confess.
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: That is almost, more than almost, that's kind of a
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: proof of it.
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: Like if I went to the Bible and it said, hey,
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: once you Once you say this, it's all easy from there.
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: I'd be a little disappointed in how it's turned out.
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: But I don't have a Bible that says that. I
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: have a Bible where.
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: It said, you know, I do the things I wish
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: not to do and I don't do the things I
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: wish to do that, Paul said. You know, so it resonates.
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: It's interesting to me that the deeper you get into it,
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: the more truthful it resonates. It's not you get to
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: some depth of it and go, oh, wow, it's not
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: really what I thought. It's again and again, I'm shocked
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: by it. Oh, even at this level, it's more true.
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: Okay. Okay.
• 18:53
  Speaker 4: If you enjoyed today's interview, please make sure to subscribe
• 18:55
  Speaker 4: and share the episode with a friend.
• 18:57
  Speaker 3: A big thanks to the team at Life Audio.
• 18:59
  Speaker 4: For their partnership with us on the podcast. If you
• 19:02
  Speaker 4: go to lifeaudio.com, you will find dozens of other faith-centered
• 19:06
  Speaker 4: podcasts in their network.
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: See you next time.