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This is the Visit That Doesn't End... · Nurtural Disasters

• Lisa: So Ken, like I saying, I met with my dad in Boston in October. ⁓ Hello and welcome to Nurtural Disasters. This is a podcast for those of us with toxic or emotionally immature parents. might not have a bunch of credentials next to our names, but we do have PhDs from the Hard Knocks University. Basically, want this to be a validating space for adult children of parents who had no business having children. ⁓ He knew I was like really pissed at him. you know, when I told him about what happened with the server in San Francisco, he's like, I don't know why you would be embarrassed by that. And I just said, why? When you're talking down to somebody, obviously people, whatever, he just doesn't have the empathy. So he said, I even told him, you need to change because you're going to lose me. him being so dismissive of me, ⁓ he basically, he said, I was thinking this compromise ⁓ and I'll let you order. ⁓ Ken: Welcome to Nurtural Disasters with Ken and Lisa. Hey Lisa. Lisa. Lisa: Hi Ken. can I you something real quick? Do you family in Vietnam? Ken: Yes. what, if I have family in Vietnam, it's family that's not very close anymore. ⁓ you want to elaborate on why you asked that. Lisa: That way I don't have to interact with like service staff or whatever. And I was like, okay, that's a good compromise. So when he stayed with me, we would go out to eat because we've been, we go out to eat quite a bit because it was both like his and my birthday. I would be the one ordering for him. ⁓ Why do we have a really high listenership? That's the word right? Listenership? ⁓ Yeah, it was like number one last week. Like they say US was second and Vietnam was like and I'm like Ken: I guess. Lisa: to the point where it was like, other people were noticing, they thought it was really weird, that I would be like, okay, what do you want? And I have to do that because otherwise it triggers a meltdown for him, where he will be screaming at the service industry people. It's so embarrassing. And there's been points where literally servers, they're like, be shaking, crying. Vietnam, that's just so random. There were tons of countries like Israel and ⁓ Argentina. ⁓ like, what? ⁓ we're reaching the entire world, but was like, Vietnam in particular, they love us there for some weird reason. And I just figured, ⁓ Ken must have family in Vietnam. ⁓ he's ⁓ calling them, hey, listen to this. ⁓ maybe they really do love us, I don't know. Ken: I don't know, they must have found us through somewhere because now it's kind of streaming on YouTube. So we do have a podcast channel on YouTube. that's the I do like little shorts on there, kind of like Instagram. But I try to do it a couple of times a week and ⁓ hopefully try to get people to to the podcast. We'll see. Lisa: And after he walks out, I have to go back and I have to apologize and give him some money and be like, I am so sorry. He doesn't know. I don't say he's autistic, but maybe I should have said that. I don't know. But this time, I'll be the one initiating ordering of food, which is really awkward. And the one time it did not happen, Yeah, more people listen to on YouTube than any other ⁓ subscription service. ⁓ Yeah. ⁓ Yes. We were at a this Mexican market in LA and they This like stand it was like inside the stand of ⁓ ice cream and and ⁓ So he he's okay, I'm gonna get some ice cream. I'm like, okay cool. So I go to one aisle and I come back and I go, ⁓ yeah, I'll get us small cup of ice cream and he goes Ice cream. Don't you want coffee? ⁓ Ken: Yeah, it's not even close. It's almost like it's almost like 10x any other ones. So I'm glad we kind of went to YouTube. Still not like those crazy insane numbers. But yeah, it's ⁓ definitely exploded a little bit. Lisa: I know it said the little pie chart, most of our listeners, 85 % of them YouTube. So now you know, like anybody else who wants to do a podcast, YouTube is a place to be, apparently. ⁓ because I said something about I'll have what he's having and they're like, no, he's having coffee and I'm like, ⁓ no, no, no, I'll have ice cream and the guy was super fucking confused. And there was a girl next to them, I think she was like stocking up and she was laughing and she gave him weird looks like what the fuck is this dude talking about? And I'm like, ⁓ God, here we go again. ⁓ So ⁓ He realize Ken: I can't explain it, but maybe it's just the ease of use because honestly like most people I know YouTube is probably the app they use the most often ⁓ least for entertainment much more so than even Spotify or Pandora or any other kind of entertainment streaming service Lisa: Thank you. Okay, I just wanted to let listeners know. he's walking around with his coffee. I'm walking around with like my little cup of chocolate ice cream. And he goes, this is too sweet. So he walks back to the little stand ⁓ and puts it up and he tells him, I don't want this and walks away. the guy behind the counter picks it up and he looks into the cup like, what? ⁓ And the girl next to ⁓ she's laughing and she's like, my God, this guy's such a fucking weirdo. And I was like, ⁓ why this always happen? Ken: it boggles in mind. ⁓ Unfortunately, don't have any comments or notes from anybody from that region, so... Don't know. ⁓ don't know. Lisa: Yeah, we have to put it through Google Translate and be like, ⁓ wow, they love us. Yeah, I don't speak Vietnamese. Ken: I don't speak Vietnamese so it's... I know how to order food and that's about it. I know how to order food and that's the extent of it. Lisa: I know. Yeah, order pho in the Thai iced tea. That's so freaking delicious. I like it. That's so bad for you, but so good. Why can't he just be normal? Ken: ⁓ he can't be normal and that's really what it is. ⁓ I guess ⁓ how is. You could say like, you could try your best, but it doesn't seem like it's going anywhere, right? ⁓ yeah, all the stuff that you look at, was like, this is gonna kill me. That's probably gonna taste good. Have you ever been inside like a Filipino bakery? ⁓ my God, everything's so sweet in there, but it's awesome. Lisa: Thank you. Ken: you told me that story, I'm still confused about what your dad wanted to order. Lisa: Well, I walked away so I don't know what he said to the cashier. So, but he said he was gonna go get some ice cream and I said, okay, so... Ken: Yes. So, so what did you ask him was like, I thought you were getting ice cream, not coffee. Lisa: That's what I said and He goes, no, I got the coffee that you recommended. All I said was when we walked in, was like, they have cafe de olla, which is my Mexican coffee with the cinnamon and brown sugar, which is my favorite. ⁓ I just meant but I was like, they also have ice cream. Maybe we should get some ice cream. But I didn't know that he had ordered the coffee. So when I got up to the counter to meet up with him, he actually ordered the coffee and he was like, no, you recommended it. And I was like, I thought you said you were getting it. And the cashier was super confused. Yeah, I know. I've been kind of been eating out a lot because ⁓ my dad was in town for like almost couple, not two weeks entirely, but it felt like two years. ⁓ Yeah. And he eats a lot. So Ken: I, you know what? ⁓ barely heard from you for those two weeks. So if you wanna start talking it, that'll be great. Lisa: then the girl next to him, this young girl just laughing and just ⁓ him this weird ass looks. ⁓ just over it. ⁓ Okay, well I think, you know, he was calmer this time. He didn't sulk, like usually he sulks. he thinks that if I'm not paying attention to him and ⁓ he feels ignored, he'll sulking. ⁓ But this time he do that. I did get monologued a ⁓ at monologue. He monologued at ⁓ Especially there was like this ⁓ one ⁓ Ken: Well, yeah, you could see like, I a lot of your dad's behavior is pretty much black or it's huh? Because I would say like a neurotypical person would have the coffee be like, hey, could you do something? This is a little too sweet. Could you like add some water into it or add some ⁓ something, right? Because that's usually it is people will try to do. Lisa: One time I was really irritated because my dog Brittany... Ken: get rid that or don't even just bring it back be like hey could you remake this this is kind of too sweet for me but you try to do it yeah ask nicely what's not normal is your dad taking it there i don't want this anymore yeah yeah because it's because there's no explanation usually what the person thinks is probably the person that made it was like is it that bad that the person doesn't want it anymore but why do that to the girl that worked there she just thought it's hilarious Lisa: She went outside and she started eating grass. I think, you when her tummy hurts, she'll eat grass. so I went outside and I was keeping an eye on her because I wanted to make sure she was okay. And I didn't like to leave her outside unsupervised at all. You know, we have coyotes in our neighborhood and I heard that they like to jump into people's yards and, you know, especially with a little dog like mine, they'll just take off with them. So I have to be very careful with her. So and she's eating grass and he comes out into the back, my backyard and just starts monologuing at me about something I don't even Yeah and just leaving it on the counter and walking away. She was laughing, but she was giving him looks of like, what a fucking weirdo. Like the side eye and laughing, you And... remember. He just goes on and on and I'm like... ⁓ Britney's eating grass and he just keeps talking as if I never said anything then he goes on and on and I'm just kind of ignoring him and he's just talking at me and then the second time I say Britney's eating grass and nothing, and eventually she starts throwing up you know there's that white foam with all the grass yeah and I'm like she's throwing up ⁓ and he he finally listens what I'm saying and he goes ⁓ I thought only cats did that and then he goes back inside I'm like Ken: Yeah, and you know what the unfortunate aspect of that is? She probably saw your dad's behavior before you even got there probably this guy's kinda weird. It's setting off like a radar alert. ⁓ So was like, looking at it, was like, wow, this guy's very strange. ⁓ all stuff that happened after just pretty much confirmed it in her mind. Lisa: Mm-hmm. Yo. Yeah. Yeah, the fact that he can't do any small talk, he can't just go up and say, hey, you know, this was a little too sweet. I don't remember if it was too sweet or if it was like, there was something he didn't like about it. I just said throw it away. That's all I said, throw it away. ⁓ And we were walking by a... Okay. Ken: you get any of the info of what he was talking about? Lisa: I don't remember, I was too busy worrying about my dog. And he did not pick up on that cue that this is not the right time to monologue about Palestine or whatever the fuck. I'm sure geopolitics that very important. But right now, I'm just focused on my dog. I need to make sure she's okay. But not picking up on the cue that this is not the right time. And the fact that there was just no worry. Ken: Exactly, exactly. ⁓ Lisa: garbage can so i figured he would do that but no he went right back to the counter and said i don't want this anymore or something to that effect left it at the counter and walked away the guy was the cashier was ⁓ the look confusion he literally picked up the cup and smelled it and i was like what ⁓ kind made me sad for my own childhood because it reminded me of how emotionally neglected I was. He just could not pick up on the fact that I needed something and he just could not recognize that, this is, ⁓ cannot facial expressions, ⁓ I don't know how to say it, but it's just, it was reminder of like, ⁓ Ken: normal people would just see that behavior and be like, hey, is there something wrong with this? Because that's usually if you're like a server or you work in food, ⁓ if returns it to you like that and just like, don't want it anymore, you think something's wrong with it, right? So that's why he probably sniffed into it. It's like, something wrong with us? Did we screw up? No, your dad's just that's how he is. ⁓ Yeah, to touch upon that, one question I would like to ask is, so when you were sad as a kid, let's say like you were mopey, like how your dad was like you could see that he was uncomfortable or something was going on. So when it happened to you when you were a kid, what was your dad's response to that? Is it that he see it or notice it at all? Lisa: And I'm just supposed to put up with it. Because if I don't, I am an ableist. Ken: Well here's the thing, think we come to a conclusion that your dad is probably not gonna be able to change and even if he does, it's gonna be not the most noticeable change, but I think you already have it in your, you have it in your heart that you already know that this is how it is. So you can't change your dad, that's just something you have to accept. Unfortunately. Lisa: Oblivion. Ken: So he read the situation, he couldn't read your face. Lisa: No, no, cannot. Ken: Now, is there like a range where the more animated you were, it might... Yeah, yeah. like levels of being like sad or mad or just like frustrated that ⁓ you of show other cues, more visual cues, more maybe ⁓ auditory cues. anything to make him like, ⁓ something's happening. ⁓ Lisa: Like if I was sobbing Ken: all situations of you two hanging out together. Very, very stressful. Lisa: it is stressful for me i don't how to deal with it and i think ⁓ For me, I just keep him at arm's length and I feel bad that I do that. And he feels the distance and he feels the fact that, okay, I think he notices that people Ken: Something's wrong with my daughter. I better go check. None of that. Lisa: Yeah, think maybe I think he would respond to anger because we got into a fight last October. You know, I saw him. We met up in Boston was just really upset with him because he there's some shit that he pulled year before and I was Yeah, they keep him at a distance because while he was here, he's like, oh, there's a lady in my group and he's some sort of part of some online group. I don't know. They're like into some sort of left-wing politics, but it's like super left leaning, which is fine. I don't care. But like, was, I was coming into town and we were going to have lunch together. I'm like, okay, cool. So they meet they go to this Palestinian restaurant. I just couldn't take it. I'm like, can't deal with this. and then I was like, and I told him, I was pissed. And I'm like, I was pissed. And he was just kind of stunned. Like his eyes got and like he didn't realize I was upset because of- And I said, ⁓ how did it go? He's like, ⁓ it was good. we ended up, and I'm going to ⁓ Amoeba and Hollywood. I'm like, ⁓ yeah, I remember you liking that place. It's really cool. And I'm like, how did it go? When I picked him up, he's, it's good. ⁓ She said should hang out once more. ⁓ You know how rude he was to service staff we had taken a trip to San Francisco And he was really rude to this one server in particular and it was so fucking embarrassing so he has a stepdaughter from a marriage number four I still to and he hates her that was his mortal enemy and ⁓ while you're still in town. I'm like, ⁓ that's great, cool. And then ⁓ towards the end of his stay here I asked him, ⁓ you, you gonna hang out with your friend? He's like, ⁓ I texted her but she didn't text back. I was like, really? After she told you that you guys should hang out? was kind of confused but then I, in my head I'm thinking... And I was like, no, she's not a narcissist that you think she is. And he goes, you're obsessed with narcissism. And that's when I really fucking lost it. Because I... ⁓ Ken: So that daughter, is she like legally like your sister, a half sister, step sister? So you do have a relatively good relationship with her. Does she know like all the stuff that you know about your dad, like how he's kind of like on the spectrum, how he's not very good at social cues, how he monologues? So he does have this very, I wouldn't say, Lisa: would probably happen. you know, people just say that, ⁓ let's hang out sometime. And neurodiversion people, they take it literally like, ⁓ yeah, we'll hang out sometime. What's a good time? Like people just say that. ⁓ They don't really mean it ⁓ And the fact that she him, left him on read, I already figured he probably did not ask her anything about herself. Step sister. Ken: Neurally divergent is what I want to say like behavior does she know that have you told her any of that? Lisa: Yeah. Yes, yeah, I've told her in Spanish, she doesn't really speak English. She's learning English. So I just told her it's like it's called in Spanish syndrome of the Asperger, ⁓ Asperger ⁓ of but you don't we don't call that anymore. You know, they changed it like years ago from the DSM four to DSM five. Now it's just level one. ⁓ completely monologued at her about ⁓ Palestine and Israel and geopolitics and never once asking her about like her own personal life. And I even asked him, where does she live? He said, I don't know. It was some place in the Silver Lake or I was like, ⁓ yeah, Silver Lake. ⁓ cool, she lives in Silver Lake. Anything else? But didn't. But everyone just knows it as Asperger's. I mean, you say Asperger's, everybody knows. So I explained to her because he would get mad at her for no reason. She was literally like 10 years old. This was like 12 years ago. I've known her for over a decade. he would scream at her. And then she would start crying ask her anything about herself, like nothing. was just like, great, I'm being monologued at. And you're just like, oh yeah, great time. You know, things like, you know, when you go on a bad date, Ken: Yeah. pretty much a bad date because it's like one person talks the whole time. It's like the skills to a good date have the other person talk more than you or you're just asking questions keep it going. Lisa: And the tears would just run down her face and I would have to tell him, ⁓ she's crying. He would go, ⁓ then she just would run to her bedroom, you know, crying. ⁓ me and her mom would have go console her. And I would have a talk with him, no, you don't say that. don't. And it just, it reminded me of like, when I was a baby my parents were still together. that's what and... It's of those like you're polite the end or like, yeah, let's hang out sometime. ⁓ yeah, we should hang out sometime. Okay, ⁓ but because you're too... ⁓ You don't want be rude and be ⁓ you know, I mean, this is not working ⁓ I ⁓ especially but I don't think it a per se. It was more like a... ⁓ It's like a friend's catching up and like, we have mutual interests. ⁓ were like the same things. Cool. But to the point where you don't want to be like, no, yeah, well, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll text you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, uh-huh. One of those like, okay, bye ⁓ don't ⁓ My uncle actually came to He stayed with with us and my uncle would say ⁓ yeah He has no patience for children because it would be over stimulating for him to the point where I I would do something and he would just start screaming at my face like a baby you know, having a meltdown because it probably triggered a meltdown, you know, but children, their way of communicating is through crying or screaming, whatever, and it would cause a meltdown for him and he would start screaming at me and then my uncle told me, I literally grabbed you while he was screaming, I grabbed you and I took you away from him while he was screaming at you. And I was like, wow, I could totally see that too. Ken: Well that is a bummer. You can see it is affecting his relationships because honestly it's very hard to hang out with someone that talks 90 % of the time and doesn't seem like they care about what you want to say. tough. ⁓ Hmm. Lisa: It seems like they don't care about you because... Ken: Yeah, because it's like when you're hanging out with someone you kind of want it to be as 50-50 as you can, right? Yeah. Lisa: So yeah, lucky me. there's this whole thread on Reddit about raised by autistics. I also follow raised by narcissists. a lot of people say, reciprocal and that's yeah because has a really good friend in boston it's like i would say call him his best friend ⁓ he's also ⁓ on the spectrum and he even knows it he was like i know i'm autistic i never got evaluated for it but i know i am another boomer obviously and I'm autistic myself and I would not have kids because I know my limitations. The loud noises, you know, they have sensory issues, know, the loud noises and stuff would trigger meltdowns and whatever. And I'm like, wow, it's so great that they know their own limitations. There's a little bit now. He's actually I even told him you're pretty self-aware for an autistic person and that sounds bad But he he said I had to build up empathy anyway So he, my dad a lot of the time he was here, he's on his computer writing articles for this online blog and with his, because that's his special interest, writing about geopolitics or whatever. also, dad's friend also runs ⁓ a of that group, blog, whatever. I don't, I'm I'm not too sure. ⁓ Anyway, so I could hear them. Ken: Yeah, because it's, I think we're in kind of like the information age where people, there are people that really want to be more self-aware about their, just how they are. If not to improve their relationships, just kind of understand themselves better. ⁓ I think that's at the good thing ⁓ going on through our mental health, like ⁓ of. Lisa: and talking about, oh, fascism. And this is how I'm like, oh, he's talking to his friend. And then I'm like, oh, so how's he doing? Ken: just how accessible it is to everybody. Lisa: Yes, I agree 100%. It's game changing. Ken: I mean, I mean, the only thing we have to worry about is sometimes you have to sift through, lot of like information, right? And you have to know like sometimes just because someone's a therapist or someone's written a paper doesn't mean it's, they're not wrong. So it's a lot of product out there that you could look at and really ⁓ educate yourself about, but. Lisa: Did his wife find a new job? know because when we were there she was about to be laid off and get replaced by AI and it was hard for her to find another job because it was working from home and her mom was disabled you know this whole like thing and I was like and I was really worried about them ⁓ I was ⁓ how's wife doing? I know. ⁓ I didn't think to ask. ⁓ how's the mom doing? Is okay? You know she's in a wheelchair. I didn't I don't know I didn't think to ask. I'm like Ken: It also makes it a lot more difficult to see who's full of shit. It takes a little bit more time to see who's full of shit. Lisa: Like how... So literally like they just talk to each other. No, hi, how are you? How are things? No, it's just like talk about their special interests and then bye. Like that level. okay, I get that because they're both on the spectrum. But like his girlfriend who ⁓ lives on the East Coast... There's a lot of garbage out there. You have to sift through the garbage to find a Dr. Ramani Ken: Yeah, and I feel like people that are self-aware, I don't want to say it's like, okay, someone that's autistic right now in 2026, would they just be they're thinking, I don't want to have a kid because I might not know how to communicate with that kid or that kid might have autism too. Lisa: when they talk, he spends a lot of time talking with her, like they FaceTime and they just talk over each other. It's kind of funny actually, because how did they even get in a conversation in? ⁓ Ken: Exactly, but what did they talk about? Lisa: Well, she owns a business out there and he's trying to start a similar business where he lives. she's like, no, you have to finish this, know, ⁓ this price, charge this price, whatever. Cause she knows about the ⁓ that I do. but the time, they're just talking over each other. ⁓ I'm like, you ⁓ how they say that it work out two people. that's another thing. There's no guarantee that your children will be autistic and also what if they're more high supports needs? What if they're level ⁓ and at point it's like, ⁓ you know, people tell you like, who's gonna take care of you when you're old? Like, and you have a, if you have a high supports needs child, you have to worry about who's take care of them when you're gone. Ken: Yeah. Yeah, so that's always, I think that's a fear, right? ⁓ With people that are, especially neurodivergent that has sometimes a very severe kind of like a mental illness, What I'm trying to say is if Lisa: Thank you. are like neurodivergent. Like it doesn't work out. I'm like thinking maybe she's ADHD, but I didn't get any like neurodivergent vibes from her when I met her that one time. I don't know. Ken: So they were talking about business stuff? Well, there you go. It's like there was no small talk. It was all about what he needed at the moment. So what happens when that's not there anymore? Lisa: Yeah. Ken: If you're neurodivergent and you know other people that are neurodivergent, it's very easy to explain to them. But ⁓ have a neuro-typical person and you try to explain just how it is for that person, it's very difficult. the fear, think, for anybody that's neurodivergent is how my kid's gonna end up. How am I gonna be able to take care of them when I'm a mess myself? Lisa: Eugh. No, but it wasn't just that. Like, it was the business, but it was like talking over each other because they wouldn't let each other talk. She just goes on, he starts talking and then she talks over him and talks and then he talks and she's talking. They're just talking over each other. It's kind of funny. Ken: maybe she likes to monologue too, who knows? of the time at least the ones that are self-aware ⁓ people that are high functioning But I see it as a little that it's sad that someone would not have children just because of that It might not I feel like people should have children Not based on that. I know it's it's very interesting to be ⁓ yeah I I'm predisposed to this kind of illness Lisa: But I don't know. Whatever. I give them a year. That's what I said when I met them. Or maybe more. The fact that they don't live together probably helps. it probably helps. I did. Ken: ⁓ goodness, look. goodness, it's like they get engaged and he gets married, what number wife is this? so I know my kid's gonna have it. It's gonna be more difficult, but I think having kids, at least for my friends, it does like they're very happy with their kids. So, really depends. Lisa: 6. Ken: Welp, lucky number six. Almost one to, lucky number seven. Lisa: You know what's funny? told him after got divorced for the fifth time, said, well, don't get married again. ⁓ And was like kind of laughing like, when have I ever told you that I will never get married again? And I was serious with him. I told him, look, if you're in your 60s making the same mistakes you made in your ⁓ 20s, haven't learned anything. And he got ⁓ really It depends. mean, did they want the kids though? Ken: Well, let's all hope so. Let's all hope so. Yeah Lisa: ⁓ They're not like oops babies like us. ⁓ Ken: Well sometimes oopsie babies also... an oopsie baby does not... lead to bad parenting and bad relationships. Sometimes it's contrary. Maybe ⁓ you get even better because you're oopsie baby. But it's... it's unexpected and lot of oopsie babies that I do know are a lot younger ⁓ than the rest of their siblings you know they're an oopsie baby. ⁓ So it's... Lisa: And it's a truth. Ken: Yeah, If you get married for the fifth time and it's not working out, um... There's something there, you didn't learn anything or... Sir, you are the problem! Lisa: Yeah. Ken: I always think about this that, yeah, so there are really oopsie babies out there. And you could tell they're oopsie babies, but I think for some people are like very self-aware of that, man, my parents still had me though. So that has to mean something, right? That has to mean something. So when you're in... Lisa: not Taylor Swift like, it's me, hi, I'm the problem, it's me. No, ⁓ all else, it's all the exes. ⁓ He's not blame, so. can't change what can't acknowledge, you know, Ken: Well, you probably could see this. Have you seen any of his like partners have that sort of neurodivergence or even on the spectrum? lot of the oopsie babies, your parents are in their ⁓ sometimes even ⁓ and they still want it to have you. at least that part of it is pretty interesting that of people, parents of that will still have the kid. ⁓ Lisa: None of the spectrum but neurodivergence in the sense of ADHD. Like, I think my mom has ADD. I don't see. Ken: Mm-hmm. But I really, cause I'm really interested in what happens when your dad who's autistic meets a woman that's autistic as well. Lisa: Yeah, I was reading this article and the teen rate, just came out yesterday today. Yeah, yesterday it was. The teen pregnancy rates are very low. ⁓ They say that works out. mean, in theory, that's how it's supposed to work out. They kiss. Ken: Yeah, they would just get so frustrated with each other, they'll just get mad and you know. Lisa: And the people were framing it as it's a bad thing, you know, it's a... you know how growing up it was like, we're overpopulated, but now it's like, no, we need to... There's this, ⁓ what's pronatalist agenda. ⁓ But now it's people in their 30s and 40s are having children. It's just more prevalent, you know, because... ⁓ it took over each other and. Ken: Yeah, yeah, yeah, just keep doing it. It's like, I know what you're thinking. Lisa: they would have to share the same special interest. Ken: Oh wow, I could talk hours about stuff like this. Oh goodness. Yeah, they have to like the same thing. So that's kind of tough. Lisa: Yeah, can't be somebody who's just like ⁓ a Trump supporter, ⁓ know? Yeah. ⁓ Ken: Ha ha ha ha Lisa: It's just having children is not cheap. when I found out how much daycare was, was like, ⁓ no, what we pay for rent like every month. Yeah. was like, no, thank you. It's hard to say. And I feel bad because he doesn't like being alone. He doesn't like being single and know his... ⁓ Ken: And you know what, and you know what, I know people like that. I've grown up with people that cannot stay single. I've never seen this person single in my life. wonder, it like just some sort of fear or boredom that people just have revolving door of like partners. But ⁓ as someone that's have gaps in like relationships, it's like, it's really fun to have gaps in relationships. even if you don't look at it as a purely financial kind of thing, that a lot of time and ⁓ of like effort goes into it, raising a kid. Lisa: Yes. like my could, yeah, he have never had kids because he doesn't know. There's just, he means well, but it's just way many limitations. ⁓ Mm. Ken: it's kind of like that freedom is there. So it's sometimes, sometimes it's a good time that when you're by yourself that you just kind of date yourself for a while, try to stuff out about yourself that you didn't realize before. Lisa: But I think it really depends on the fact that if you have other friends to lean on, family members, the fact that he doesn't have a network of friends and family himself. So if he's single, all your other relationships are pretty tenuous. Whereas you're paired up, that's the closest relationship that he has. Otherwise, it gets pretty lonely. Ken: So it's pretty much just a partner just so you don't be alone. Lisa: Yes, not to feel lonely, I guess. Ken: Well, we found the answer to that. Lisa: And I think he really does like being paired up. think he really does. I... ⁓ Ken: But there comes a point where if you want a relationship that just lasts, he's not putting in the work or he's not picking the right people and he's not working on himself to make those relationships last. he should be a guy that should just be a lifetime bachelor. That's my personal opinion. Lisa: Maybe. don't think self-aware enough to know like was best for him. for him maybe he shouldn't, don't he should get married. Even his own mother, my grandmother would say, ⁓ I keep telling him, do not get married again. you want to ⁓ date somebody, live with somebody, okay, but don't get And ⁓ he just doesn't listen, whatever. That's on him. ⁓ Ken: And plus we live in a day and age where it's totally fine to not get married. That's why it's mind boggling to me that some people will get married five or six times. I'm like at a certain point I was like, do you just like going to the ceremony? You just like throwing a wedding or something? It's what? You screwed up four or five times already. What makes you think that your number six is going to be the one? Seriously, what kind of delusion do you have? Okay, so we talked, do you wanna talk more about your dad? Lisa: Yeah, there's even, was Dr. Drew, he was saying years ago, maybe it was a decade ago, I don't remember, but used to ⁓ follow show and he would say like, if you've been ⁓ divorced don't bother married again, just do not get married again. I mean, he didn't say it, but later on I've learned like the odds of getting married again after your second time, ⁓ you have very, very high chance of getting divorced, ⁓ super, super Ken: And yes, I actually do follow Dr. Drew's, his mindset when he said Because I always joke with my friends and my fiance that, hey, you get one on the house. You get one divorce. People screw up all the time. Maybe a second one. Or maybe if a spouse dies and you're not the one that killed them. Maybe you get a third one. If you went through a divorce, your spouse dies or something like that. And then you're allowed a third marriage. I think every time after that you have to give up like a something of yourself. Maybe a body part. I don't know. many children does he have? Lisa: Only two surprisingly. Ken: Only two, so he actually it short. Lisa: That's so funny. It's on the house? The first one's on the house. Ken: So if it's a turns a body part, and yet, whoa, here's the thing. Hear me, hear. Lisa: Thank God for vasectomies. Ken: thank God for that, he got that. Hear me out! So your dad's been married five times and he's gotten divorced five times, so it's like, okay, let's not take a very big body part, let's take all his fingers and thumbs, right? He has tens of them, ten of them, So, okay, so at this point, he'll have six fingers left. So he has a hand and one pinky finger. ⁓ does he wanna keep going or not? Because at a certain point, it's like, okay, we need something to put in your head that... Lisa: my god, otherwise he would have been like a Genghis Khan, It's a Genghis or I hear it pronounced different ways, but for this occasion, we'll call it Genghis Khan, unless wants to me, whatever. So, and you know, I was telling you about how my dad sulks to feel like he thinks I'm not spending enough time with him. ⁓ literally, my brother will like disappear for days when visiting my dad. I literally, call him and I'll say, ⁓ how is it with ⁓ my brother? I don't know, I haven't seen him in two days. He went to go party with his friends and have... Yeah. Ken: Hey, there's consequences to this, buddy. And you're not noticing the consequences, so we're just gonna take your finger. Lisa: can. Ken: You let him know my idea. Lisa: Oh my god. I don't know. Ken, you have the funniest analogies. I just want to let you know that. Ken: gosh. Yes. Thank you. remember I told you I did so poorly at SATs? Well, and lot of, you remember SATs like had a big chunk of it that was analogies or you know, like, but the thing is, I always knew like, I make like the funniest goofy ones. it's just, huh, that's interesting. That's ⁓ correlated something. That's just my special skill, I guess. Lisa: okay. I never took the SATs, so I don't... don't know. I know there's ⁓ and metaphors too. like... I don't know, I never took them, so I... ⁓ Ken: Useless test. Doesn't, doesn't gauge how well you do in college, by the way. Lisa: Yes, I... Okay. Ken: By the way, in college I was a student. Lisa: So, there you go. Ken: Actually based on the SATs, I wouldn't have even made it to one of the colleges. That's how bad it was. Lisa: ⁓ really? You never went to junior college, did you? Ken: I wanted to. this is, this is a whole big thing about my parents and just how they controlled everything. I wanted to go to community college, but they didn't trust me to go to community college. Maybe you could, I could, well, I could probably talk about that in a later episode. Mm-hmm. Lisa: Why? Okay, fair enough.