Latest / WriterCon / Magic and Horror with Cynthia Pelayo

Transcript

Magic and Horror with Cynthia Pelayo · WriterCon

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: This week on the writer Con podcast.
• 0:05
  Speaker 2: I think we need to just be a little bit
• 0:08
  Speaker 2: hinder to ourself, so just really enjoy the process.
• 0:13
  Speaker 3: Welcome to writer Con, a gathering place for writers to
• 0:16
  Speaker 3: share their knowledge about writing and the writing world.
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: Your hosts are William.
• 0:20
  Speaker 3: Bernhardt, best selling novelist and author of the Red Sneaker
• 0:23
  Speaker 3: books on writing, and Laura Bernhardt, award.
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: Winning author of the want LNN Files book series.
• 0:31
  Speaker 4: Thank you, Jesse Ulrich and hey, they're writers, thanks for
• 0:35
  Speaker 4: joining us today. We are all three of us, I
• 0:38
  Speaker 4: think recently back from big travel expeditions. Laura and I
• 0:42
  Speaker 4: were in New York recently. And Jesse, you just got
• 0:46
  Speaker 4: back from the Star Trek.
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: Cruise, right, that is correct.
• 0:49
  Speaker 4: Did you have a decent time?
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  Speaker 3: I did have a decent time. I did happen to
• 0:54
  Speaker 3: catch COVID on the way home. So oh that's been
• 0:56
  Speaker 3: a fun week.
• 0:57
  Speaker 5: Yeah, so sorry.
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: That's all right. I got some Pact slot bit on Thursday.
• 1:03
  Speaker 3: Feeling better now, I will say, the energy to get
• 1:06
  Speaker 3: ready for this recording took.
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: A lot out of me. I'm like, oh, I am
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: more tired than but we'll talk quickly.
• 1:11
  Speaker 4: Yes, but you're feeling at right now?
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, the cruise was great.
• 1:16
  Speaker 3: You know, uh, the you know, each cruise has a captain, right,
• 1:20
  Speaker 3: like the sort of who they think the biggest celebrity.
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and it was.
• 1:27
  Speaker 3: It was Kate Mogrew for this year because it was
• 1:29
  Speaker 3: a voyager and reverse year. And she's always great. She's
• 1:32
  Speaker 3: just like such an honest, earnest, deep person, Like any
• 1:36
  Speaker 3: time you get to get to hear it talk is fantastic.
• 1:39
  Speaker 4: So more importantly for this podcast, when's she going to
• 1:42
  Speaker 4: write her book?
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: I think she was talking about that, so she's working
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: on it.
• 1:48
  Speaker 4: Possibly every star on that book on that boat may
• 1:50
  Speaker 4: be working on a memoir.
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: That's true. That's true.
• 1:54
  Speaker 4: We know there's an audience.
• 1:55
  Speaker 3: Seriously, the actress who plays you know her on Street
• 2:00
  Speaker 3: New Worlds, Like she's only twenty five years old. She's
• 2:01
  Speaker 3: already lived like a full life of doing shows and whatnot.
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: It's incredible.
• 2:06
  Speaker 4: Yeah, so yeah, impressive. Laura, we of course were on
• 2:11
  Speaker 4: New York kind of research slash fun visit. What was
• 2:15
  Speaker 4: your favorite part?
• 2:19
  Speaker 5: You know, I hate picking favorites. Okay favorite, Yeah, I
• 2:23
  Speaker 5: get three, Okay, I could do three. So while you
• 2:26
  Speaker 5: were in the library doing your research, I went to
• 2:31
  Speaker 5: the Guggenheim Museum and that was amazing. I had a
• 2:36
  Speaker 5: really good time there and saw some fantastic artwork and
• 2:40
  Speaker 5: learned some art history, so that was wonderful. And of
• 2:44
  Speaker 5: course we we had we had pizza at an old
• 2:50
  Speaker 5: old history right right that establishment, Yes, that one of
• 2:56
  Speaker 5: our former podcasts.
• 3:00
  Speaker 4: Reviews.
• 3:01
  Speaker 5: Yeah, Thomas invited us and so we got to meet
• 3:03
  Speaker 5: him in real life, which was fabulous. And then of
• 3:07
  Speaker 5: course all the shows, that's my third thing, all the
• 3:12
  Speaker 5: shows that we saw, I'm gonna lump them all together.
• 3:14
  Speaker 5: I just loved it.
• 3:15
  Speaker 4: We had to try to Tiffany's would at least make
• 3:18
  Speaker 4: the top three. But that's just my own selfish, very fun.
• 3:24
  Speaker 5: There's my there's my new acquisition, which for.
• 3:27
  Speaker 4: Your well you're not wearing you're wearing another Tiffany thing.
• 3:31
  Speaker 4: Although that one, yes, yes, like before we were been married, right.
• 3:36
  Speaker 5: Yes, this one was.
• 3:37
  Speaker 4: It's a classic now it.
• 3:39
  Speaker 5: Is vintage now they don't make them anymore. That was
• 3:42
  Speaker 5: your first Christmas present to me? Ever, yes, there before
• 3:46
  Speaker 5: I even knew what a little blue box meant.
• 3:51
  Speaker 4: Okay, Jesse, no pressure, But what was your first present
• 3:55
  Speaker 4: to Michelle?
• 3:56
  Speaker 3: It was actually a uh I wrote a not a poem.
• 4:00
  Speaker 3: What does it call where you do a thing where
• 4:01
  Speaker 3: you use the first letter of a thing to start
• 4:04
  Speaker 3: a ligne?
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: Yes, I made Michelle one of those.
• 4:07
  Speaker 4: So oh, that's actually better.
• 4:08
  Speaker 3: Luckily, I'm very lucky that she does not care for diamonds,
• 4:12
  Speaker 3: so my gift budget is lower than most tonight.
• 4:16
  Speaker 5: Well, this one's not a diamond. I will say I
• 4:19
  Speaker 5: didn't much care for diamonds either, but Bill said, I
• 4:23
  Speaker 5: don't care. I want everyone to know that you spoke
• 4:26
  Speaker 5: for He wanted no misunderstanding on what that ring was.
• 4:31
  Speaker 4: It's clear that's true, all right. Our interview today is
• 4:35
  Speaker 4: with Cynthia Palaio. She is the Bram bram Stoker Award
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  Speaker 4: winning author of Forgotten Sisters and many other genre blending
• 4:46
  Speaker 4: novels that incorporate fairy tale and mystery and horror elements.
• 4:51
  Speaker 4: Esquire called her novel Liuteria one of the best horror
• 4:55
  Speaker 4: books of twenty twenty three. She's written numerous short stories too,
• 5:00
  Speaker 4: and even a collection of poetry. Can't wait to talk
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  Speaker 4: to her about all that, But first, the news news
• 5:24
  Speaker 4: story number one authors can now create AI narrated audio
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  Speaker 4: books for free through the leading AI audio company eleven
• 5:34
  Speaker 4: labs and they can be distributed everywhere. This is a
• 5:40
  Speaker 4: big change for anybody who's involved in the audiobook business.
• 5:44
  Speaker 4: They've launched a subsidiary company called eleven Reader Publishing. I'll
• 5:48
  Speaker 4: put the link in the show notes. Authors can go
• 5:52
  Speaker 4: there and create and sell these AI narrated audiobooks, which
• 5:56
  Speaker 4: I'll just say again sound better than you think. Not
• 6:00
  Speaker 4: a substitute for real people, but not horrible, and free
• 6:05
  Speaker 4: and you can do it through their app, and it
• 6:08
  Speaker 4: doesn't cost anything up front. They take their cut on
• 6:11
  Speaker 4: the back end. They get a dollar ten per listener.
• 6:15
  Speaker 4: But when you think about what audiobooks cost, that's really
• 6:19
  Speaker 4: not very much. And the big thing is you can
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  Speaker 4: distribute it anywhere. I mean we already have. Amazon can
• 6:26
  Speaker 4: generate an AI narrated audiobook, but you can only sell
• 6:31
  Speaker 4: it an Amazon. Google do the same thing, but you
• 6:33
  Speaker 4: can only sell it Google Play. This one you can
• 6:37
  Speaker 4: send anywhere. Even Spotify has announced that it's going to
• 6:42
  Speaker 4: team up with them and accept these AI narrated audio
• 6:44
  Speaker 4: books and find a Way Voices, which we've mentioned several
• 6:49
  Speaker 4: times as a great audio book producer. Well, they're now
• 6:51
  Speaker 4: owned by Spotify, So are you really surprised that they
• 6:55
  Speaker 4: will also distribute those audio books. But here's the catch.
• 7:00
  Speaker 4: Any audiobooks created with AI will be clearly marked as such. Laura,
• 7:07
  Speaker 4: is this good news for the world of writing and writers?
• 7:12
  Speaker 5: So before I would hop into that, I would want
• 7:16
  Speaker 5: to go to the site. I'd want to hear some samples.
• 7:20
  Speaker 4: Magnificent is if they're magnificent?
• 7:23
  Speaker 5: Yes, because those those Amazon audiobook narrations that you're talking
• 7:29
  Speaker 5: about are still in beta. That's not available to everyone.
• 7:32
  Speaker 5: So that's kind of a flaw there. It's great for
• 7:36
  Speaker 5: people who have access to it, but not everyone does.
• 7:40
  Speaker 5: I mean great if you want to use it, right,
• 7:44
  Speaker 5: I'd like, I mean, I'll go look at it. I'll
• 7:47
  Speaker 5: go look at it and check it out. But as
• 7:48
  Speaker 5: far as what they keep, I think it is less
• 7:54
  Speaker 5: than it's it's less than what ACX takes. It seems
• 7:57
  Speaker 5: like it could be something that for help independent authors.
• 8:03
  Speaker 4: Yeah, or so small publishers. A small publishers just we're
• 8:07
  Speaker 4: not trying to disor eliminate human narrators, some of whom
• 8:12
  Speaker 4: are the best, but they're also expensive and some people
• 8:15
  Speaker 4: just can't afford that or don't want to share profits. Well,
• 8:19
  Speaker 4: here's a workaround for that, Jesse, would you buy AI
• 8:24
  Speaker 4: narrated audio? You listened to audio books, right?
• 8:26
  Speaker 3: I actually I don't listen to audio book which is
• 8:29
  Speaker 3: podcasts podcast yeah, okay, I don't. Mentally it's better for
• 8:35
  Speaker 3: me to read it than it is for me to
• 8:36
  Speaker 3: listen to it. Me too, yeah, which iron considering the
• 8:40
  Speaker 3: work I do, but other than taking money directly out
• 8:45
  Speaker 3: of my pocket, I don't think I would listen to
• 8:49
  Speaker 3: if I was going to listen to an aisle because
• 8:50
  Speaker 3: I have listened to some I don't think. I don't
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  Speaker 3: think I could put up with an AI narrator because
• 8:56
  Speaker 3: I would be able to tell. And that might be
• 8:57
  Speaker 3: because of the work I do. And I also think
• 9:00
  Speaker 3: most people will probably pick up on it because it's
• 9:03
  Speaker 3: not going to be perfect.
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  Speaker 1: It never is. And I also don't like that it's free.
• 9:08
  Speaker 3: Like like free things, it's one of the things where
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  Speaker 3: the money's coming from somewhere, so they're either yes, they're
• 9:14
  Speaker 3: getting money on the back end, but that means they're
• 9:15
  Speaker 3: also probably using your book to help train whatever.
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: And that's one of those you know.
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  Speaker 5: I'm going to say, an ACX, you don't pay them
• 9:25
  Speaker 5: anything up front, ACX when you log in and create
• 9:29
  Speaker 5: that it is free. They take their money for every
• 9:33
  Speaker 5: book sale. So that's why I'm saying, I'd want to
• 9:35
  Speaker 5: go look at it, like you said, I would like
• 9:37
  Speaker 5: to look for some kind of fine print or some
• 9:40
  Speaker 5: kind of catch like you're talking about them. I'm with you.
• 9:43
  Speaker 5: I'm like, if it's free, what do we think. But
• 9:45
  Speaker 5: ACX was like that too. They just take a huge
• 9:48
  Speaker 5: piece of it and you don't get a lot. And
• 9:52
  Speaker 5: it's a little discouraging. We hear all the time about
• 9:56
  Speaker 5: how audiobooks are exploding and blowing up and you can
• 9:59
  Speaker 5: make so much money from audiobooks. And I'm sure for
• 10:03
  Speaker 5: some people that is true, But I've used ACX in
• 10:07
  Speaker 5: the past, and discouraging and dismayed are good words there.
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  Speaker 5: It's it resulted in something, which is always better than nothing.
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  Speaker 5: But even having a narrator who was willing to share
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  Speaker 5: loyalties with me so that there was no upfront cost
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  Speaker 5: for either of us, yeah, I felt I felt disappointed
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  Speaker 5: with the results. And she's she's great.
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: I like her.
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  Speaker 4: But yeah, now, Jesse, when you record audio books, you're
• 10:36
  Speaker 4: usually recording for the author, right an author wants to
• 10:39
  Speaker 4: read their own book, and you know, anybody with that
• 10:43
  Speaker 4: big an ego, They're still going to read their own books, right,
• 10:46
  Speaker 4: And yes, I'm talking about you Berry out in Portugal.
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: I hope you're.
• 10:50
  Speaker 4: Listening to this. That's Barry Friedman, frequent guest on this podcast.
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: He seems to be having fun, so.
• 10:59
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I miss him.
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: I know.
• 11:01
  Speaker 4: Okay, news story number I'm so sorry.
• 11:04
  Speaker 5: Did you have you seen like the cost of audio
• 11:07
  Speaker 5: books through that? Because that's another thing I hear from
• 11:10
  Speaker 5: some people that if you don't have a subscription service
• 11:15
  Speaker 5: to Audible or someplace something like that, that audiobooks are
• 11:20
  Speaker 5: actually kind of expensive and some people shy away from
• 11:22
  Speaker 5: them for that reason. So if it made the audiobook costless,
• 11:26
  Speaker 5: perhaps that's open additional doors and get more people listening
• 11:30
  Speaker 5: to that.
• 11:31
  Speaker 3: And like, this would ben interesting question for our listeners.
• 11:33
  Speaker 3: Like everyone I know who's a big audiobook listener has.
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: An Audible subscription.
• 11:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah, they don't buy the audiobooks, correct, And you know,
• 11:42
  Speaker 3: so that means like would they buy, would they listen
• 11:45
  Speaker 3: to more? Would they you know, what would they pay
• 11:48
  Speaker 3: for it? If it wasn't in the Audible subscriptions that
• 11:50
  Speaker 3: I would like to change that out.
• 11:52
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that's a great point. I got to
• 11:54
  Speaker 4: point out, you know, when I did the audio books
• 11:56
  Speaker 4: for all of those books on writing, the Red Sneaker
• 11:58
  Speaker 4: Books and the I Can't Story structure and creating character
• 12:04
  Speaker 4: and all those, I did the audio books and they
• 12:08
  Speaker 4: sold like crazy in the first years because I think
• 12:12
  Speaker 4: they're relatively short, and so the price was lower. So
• 12:17
  Speaker 4: price really does matter to people. Okay. New story number two,
• 12:21
  Speaker 4: Amazon Kindle is removing the download option via USB. If
• 12:28
  Speaker 4: you use any kind of Kindle device, you may have
• 12:31
  Speaker 4: seen this announcement because it went into effect on February
• 12:35
  Speaker 4: twenty six.
• 12:36
  Speaker 5: Helpful.
• 12:37
  Speaker 4: The users will no longer be able to download purchase
• 12:41
  Speaker 4: purchased ebooks onto your computer via USB, which sometimes people
• 12:47
  Speaker 4: would do to have a backup copy if they're going
• 12:50
  Speaker 4: to be someplace when they're not connected to Wi Fi,
• 12:54
  Speaker 4: or for various other reasons. Some people just like it,
• 12:57
  Speaker 4: I think, to get out of the store, or because
• 13:00
  Speaker 4: sometimes files are updated, the author makes a minor change,
• 13:03
  Speaker 4: and then it goes everywhere, except not if you've already
• 13:06
  Speaker 4: saved a cup a copy to your computer, which maybe
• 13:10
  Speaker 4: why Amazon's doing it. I don't know. They don't explain themselves.
• 13:13
  Speaker 4: They just announce changes. It doesn't affect users' ability to
• 13:18
  Speaker 4: manually copy documents to their kindles using the sin to feature.
• 13:23
  Speaker 4: But you're not going to be able to leave us
• 13:25
  Speaker 4: be it down to your computer, Laura, what's the motive here?
• 13:30
  Speaker 5: I'm not sure even fully understand.
• 13:33
  Speaker 6: I mean, I always load up on books before we
• 13:36
  Speaker 6: travel so that I have something to read on the.
• 13:38
  Speaker 5: Airport on your ica. You're not saying yes on my iPad.
• 13:42
  Speaker 4: Yes, but you used to be able to download them
• 13:45
  Speaker 4: to a computer and now, oh.
• 13:47
  Speaker 5: I've never done that, So I since I'm unaffected, I
• 13:53
  Speaker 5: I assume that they're trying to stop piracy, or at
• 13:56
  Speaker 5: least that's their argument that they're probably I don't. I
• 14:00
  Speaker 5: don't really know.
• 14:01
  Speaker 4: And it does point out that when you buy an
• 14:03
  Speaker 4: e book, you're not actually buying an emails. You're licensing the.
• 14:08
  Speaker 5: Licensing that's right, which is.
• 14:11
  Speaker 4: A big difference. Jesse, have any thoughts on this, well, I.
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: Do, as someone who has pirated UH ebooks before.
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: This is this is clearly.
• 14:19
  Speaker 4: A the FBI is not listening.
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, uh, I.
• 14:23
  Speaker 3: Don't come back and listen if it makes a feeling better.
• 14:25
  Speaker 3: It was like the Wheel of Time books, which you
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: know are long.
• 14:29
  Speaker 4: I probably need three computers to hold it.
• 14:31
  Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, it's fun it's funny how small ebook sized
• 14:35
  Speaker 3: books are. Even for ginormous books, it's still like, you know,
• 14:38
  Speaker 3: a couple of hundred kilobytes and that's it. This goes
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: to the fact that these companies think we don't own
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: the things we buy, and that's very upsetting and annoying,
• 14:49
  Speaker 3: Like we're not license, that's not what we agree to,
• 14:51
  Speaker 3: that's not how our capitalistic, capitalistic system normally works.
• 14:55
  Speaker 4: And I don't like it, right, right, I think you're
• 14:58
  Speaker 4: right about that.
• 15:00
  Speaker 5: Okay, it sounds like I shall be unaffected, so I'm
• 15:04
  Speaker 5: not arms. Yeah, that's it now.
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: Well, I mean, like for example, like Jesse, no, it's fine.
• 15:10
  Speaker 3: Well, like I'm thinking of like moving to a Cobo
• 15:13
  Speaker 3: reader instead of a Kindle, and will I be able
• 15:16
  Speaker 3: to get the books that I bought?
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: And then you know, use Kleebri, which is a free,
• 15:21
  Speaker 3: open source program it's great for like managing e books.
• 15:24
  Speaker 3: Will I be able to use that to convert it
• 15:26
  Speaker 3: into the format that you know, a Cobo could use,
• 15:30
  Speaker 3: or we're gonna have to re buy everything, which really
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: changes my decision. And it's also a little uh, you know,
• 15:37
  Speaker 3: what's a that's very monopoly esque of Amazon to do.
• 15:41
  Speaker 5: But if you bought something for a Nook, it would
• 15:44
  Speaker 5: likewise be specific to the Nook. When Cobo announced they
• 15:49
  Speaker 5: were going to have a reader, how new is that.
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: Oh, Cobo reader has been around for a while.
• 15:53
  Speaker 5: Around for a while.
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you can now actually buy them on Amazon. It's
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: been a long problem where you couldn't get them on
• 15:59
  Speaker 3: an Amazon didn't want.
• 16:01
  Speaker 4: To sell it anything on Amazon, Yes.
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: Except competitors to Amazon products most of the time.
• 16:06
  Speaker 5: Well, that's that's that's part of it. I mean, people
• 16:09
  Speaker 5: who are specific to Nook can only get the Nook.
• 16:13
  Speaker 5: And so now it sounds like the Cobo is going
• 16:14
  Speaker 5: to be specific to cobone. You're going to have to
• 16:16
  Speaker 5: figure out where you are.
• 16:17
  Speaker 3: Every other e reader other than Amazon uses the same format,
• 16:21
  Speaker 3: the format. Amazon's the only one that has their own
• 16:24
  Speaker 3: modified format, but.
• 16:27
  Speaker 4: That's going out. They've announced that in March they're no
• 16:30
  Speaker 4: longer going to accept dot mobi files what we used
• 16:34
  Speaker 4: to call mobi files is their own. Not only are
• 16:39
  Speaker 4: they not going to accept it if you've done it
• 16:41
  Speaker 4: in the past, which you know at one point you
• 16:44
  Speaker 4: were required to do by Amazon, but you're going to
• 16:47
  Speaker 4: have to replace all those files now with epubs.
• 16:51
  Speaker 5: But they've been so we've been. I've been uploading kindle
• 16:57
  Speaker 5: epub files for a while now because we heard this
• 17:00
  Speaker 5: was coming. Is it still different? Is it a different
• 17:03
  Speaker 5: epub file?
• 17:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Well, as far as I know, they have their
• 17:06
  Speaker 3: own format, which is like dot I think something something,
• 17:09
  Speaker 3: which yeah, maybe.
• 17:11
  Speaker 5: It might still be neat.
• 17:14
  Speaker 4: Well, we will find out. That'll be the top story
• 17:17
  Speaker 4: in a week, so stay tuned. In the meantime. Today
• 17:22
  Speaker 4: in craft Corner we have longtime writer, con friend and
• 17:26
  Speaker 4: sponsored Desiree Duffy of Black Chatteau and Books that Make You.
• 17:31
  Speaker 4: Her topic is getting editorial book reviews, which can be
• 17:36
  Speaker 4: challenging but very important, so take it away, Desiree.
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: Craft Quarner.
• 17:47
  Speaker 7: There are three main types of book reviews editorial which
• 17:51
  Speaker 7: we covered in Part one. Endorsements were recovering now in
• 17:56
  Speaker 7: Part two, as well as consumer types of reviews. Talk
• 18:00
  Speaker 7: about those later. Right now, let's dive into author endorsements,
• 18:04
  Speaker 7: influencers and expert types of book reviews. These are solicited
• 18:10
  Speaker 7: endorsements and reviews from respected figures, and that includes best
• 18:15
  Speaker 7: selling authors or other authors, high profile influencers, or celebrities, experts,
• 18:22
  Speaker 7: or academic peers. The purpose of these types of reviews
• 18:27
  Speaker 7: is to leverage name, recognition and authority to build your credibility.
• 18:33
  Speaker 7: You lean on their brand a little bit to help
• 18:37
  Speaker 7: uplift yours. You align the book with respected individuals or
• 18:43
  Speaker 7: even niche influencers who resonate with your target audience. Because
• 18:48
  Speaker 7: you might share a target audience. Let's kind of purse
• 18:54
  Speaker 7: that out just a little bit more. When it comes
• 18:56
  Speaker 7: to author endorsements, your publisher may have similar authors that
• 19:01
  Speaker 7: they will reach out to. There might not be too
• 19:04
  Speaker 7: much for you to do if you're with a traditional
• 19:07
  Speaker 7: publisher because they know other authors who can blurb or
• 19:10
  Speaker 7: give a recommendation about your book. If you're an indie
• 19:14
  Speaker 7: author or self published maybe worth a small press or
• 19:17
  Speaker 7: a hybrid press, and they don't necessarily have those connections, well,
• 19:21
  Speaker 7: you can use your connections as an author with similar
• 19:25
  Speaker 7: authors can even swap endorsements with one another. When it
• 19:29
  Speaker 7: comes to influencers or celebrities, let's purse that down just
• 19:35
  Speaker 7: a little bit further. You can identify these influencers who
• 19:39
  Speaker 7: are on social media, bookstrogrammers for example, and booktop creators
• 19:45
  Speaker 7: or even bloggers look for them in your genre. As
• 19:49
  Speaker 7: an author, you should be doing this months even years
• 19:52
  Speaker 7: before your book is out. You should be part of
• 19:54
  Speaker 7: the community that is already out there talking about the
• 19:57
  Speaker 7: type of book that you are writing. You can reach
• 20:00
  Speaker 7: out to these types of influencers with personalized pitches. Offer
• 20:05
  Speaker 7: them free copies or an arc of your book swag
• 20:09
  Speaker 7: if you got any merch or anything. Give them some previews,
• 20:13
  Speaker 7: and don't be surprised, especially if they have large followings
• 20:18
  Speaker 7: if they're looking for compensation as well. Now, if they're
• 20:21
  Speaker 7: more of a celebrity, or maybe a journalist with a
• 20:24
  Speaker 7: premium platform think New York Times or LA Times, or
• 20:29
  Speaker 7: an athlete for example. In those cases, you probably want
• 20:33
  Speaker 7: to find out who represents them, their publicists or their agent,
• 20:38
  Speaker 7: or even their publisher to make that formal request. When
• 20:42
  Speaker 7: it comes to experts or academic reviews, use your network
• 20:47
  Speaker 7: of professionals in your niche Chances are you know people already.
• 20:53
  Speaker 7: This is especially true in nonfiction books or anything that
• 20:57
  Speaker 7: might be in the world of academia. You're going to
• 21:00
  Speaker 7: know who to talk to, probably more so than your
• 21:02
  Speaker 7: publisher does. Reach out to these folks. You can do
• 21:06
  Speaker 7: anything from that formal request that we just talked about,
• 21:10
  Speaker 7: or a letter to a direct message and email, and
• 21:14
  Speaker 7: if you know them well enough, okay, just give them
• 21:17
  Speaker 7: a call or text them yourself. The benefits of these
• 21:21
  Speaker 7: types of endorsement reviews is that they can go on
• 21:24
  Speaker 7: the back cover of your book, in press releases, in ads.
• 21:28
  Speaker 7: Those people have name recognition and you're going to be
• 21:30
  Speaker 7: able to utilize that. Influencers create a oftentimes a visual
• 21:36
  Speaker 7: buzz that goes along with your book. Think of Instagram
• 21:40
  Speaker 7: esthetics and TikTok videos. Influencer and celebrities can reach their
• 21:48
  Speaker 7: audience and that creates word of mouth buzz that oftentimes
• 21:53
  Speaker 7: can go beyond what an author or a publisher's reach
• 21:56
  Speaker 7: can accomplish. These types of reviews also have the most
• 22:01
  Speaker 7: potential to go viral. A big thank you goes up
• 22:05
  Speaker 7: to William Burnheart and the team for making me a
• 22:08
  Speaker 7: part of Craft Corner.
• 22:11
  Speaker 4: Thank you so much, Desiree. Now let's talk to Cynthia Palio.
• 22:21
  Speaker 4: Cynthia PALAIOH, welcome to the podcast.
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: Hi, thank you for having me.
• 22:26
  Speaker 4: Oh, I'm glad you could be here all right. Traditional
• 22:29
  Speaker 4: first question, if you could offer writers one piece of
• 22:33
  Speaker 4: advice what would it be.
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: I think we need to just be a little bit
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: kinder to ourselfs, so just really enjoy the process. It's
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: sometimes I think we're a little overwhelmed with the overabundance
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: of advice and it's nice just to kind of step
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: back and remember why we're doing it this we really
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: enjoy it, and when you find that point of your joy,
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: the writing will come so much easier.
• 23:03
  Speaker 4: It's deadlines that always killed the joy for me, right,
• 23:07
  Speaker 4: It's like, I've got to get this done. And how
• 23:10
  Speaker 4: did you get interested in writing books?
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: So? I was a journalist back in the nineties and
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: early two thousands, and you know, journalism is its entire
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: own field. And I left it because I was working
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: in marketing research and I still wanted to continue writing,
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: and I pursued Masters of Fine Arts and writing. I
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: experimented with short story form and it was there that
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: I started developing longer length work and I've been in
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: love with it since then.
• 23:48
  Speaker 4: Apologies to anybody that I'm maligning, but I think you
• 23:54
  Speaker 4: are the first guest we've ever had who is an
• 23:56
  Speaker 4: actual Bram Stoker Award winner, which is pretty cooled just
• 24:02
  Speaker 4: for the uninitiated that is the award in the world
• 24:06
  Speaker 4: of horror. That must have been a big deal. How'd
• 24:10
  Speaker 4: you feel when you found out about that?
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: I had to be practically carried to the stage by
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: my friend. He walked around, picked me up out of
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: my seat and helped direct me to the stage because
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: I could not believe it. It was shocking and an honor.
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: And I yes, the entire time.
• 24:35
  Speaker 4: That's fantastic. And which book was that for?
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: This was for a book of poetry titled crime Scene,
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: where I wrote a not a poem like a novee
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: verse about following one detective across the life of crime.
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: And I did it as a long pong a.
• 24:55
  Speaker 4: Serious crime is I want that? Yeah? Checking that out tonight?
• 25:01
  Speaker 5: Excellent, I'll borrow it. Okay, Well, tell us about your
• 25:06
  Speaker 5: new book, Vanishing Daughters, So now we're intrigued by your
• 25:10
  Speaker 5: crime scene.
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: Vanishing Daughters follows Briar Rose Thorne, who returns home after
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: her mother died. Her mother left their ancestral home to
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: her crumbling mansion on Chicago's South Side. The family made
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: their wealth and radios, but radios aren't really that they
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: will turn to anymore, and so she's overwhelmed with grief,
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: overwhelmed with the maintenance of this massive property. And as
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: she starts she's a journalist, and so as she starts
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: researching her next article, she stumbled upon a series of connected,
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: unsolved murders of women in the new in the neighborhood,
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: and she determines that there's likely a serial killer operating
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: and she gets too close to the real color, and
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: he sets his heights on her.
• 26:03
  Speaker 5: Oh, oh, very good. Well, your work has been described
• 26:09
  Speaker 5: as genre blending. Was that intentional? And what do you
• 26:14
  Speaker 5: think people mean when they describe it that way.
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: I don't like intentionally set out to say I'm going
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: to create a piece of work that leans detective and
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: mystery or whatnot. I just start writing, and I know
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: I I noticed that certain elements would just balance out
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: a little bit. Further So, most of my works are
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: fairy tale adaptations. So Vanler deals heavily with the fairy
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: tale of sleeping beauty, and in it, the serial color
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: is obsessed with putting women to sleep. And then I
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: think horror is sort of like the underlying like foundation
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: I have, but from there I built upon it. Because
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: some of my major influences were like Ageta Christie and
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: even like Sir Conan Doyle and so I think for me,
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: mystery just makes sense, and it appears really with horror
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: as well as like detective fiction and the procedure.
• 27:18
  Speaker 4: So in Vanishing Daughters, you talked about serial killers and
• 27:22
  Speaker 4: things we associate with thrillers or mystery crime novels, but
• 27:26
  Speaker 4: I think there's also some horror.
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: What do you call it?
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: What do I call it? Cause it a thriller?
• 27:34
  Speaker 4: Oh?
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: Really?
• 27:35
  Speaker 4: Okay, I will.
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: Admit that I think most of my novels should are
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: just genre funding they're a little bit they sort of
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: do defy genre. They have like fantastical elements to them,
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: a little bit of natural, so they're not based in realism.
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: Might be you know, reading thing and it's you feel
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: like it's based in reality, and then a ghost will appear.
• 28:02
  Speaker 5: I love it. It sounds really good to me.
• 28:05
  Speaker 4: I'm not sure how many thrillers I've ever read that
• 28:07
  Speaker 4: I really thought were credible, but they don't always have
• 28:10
  Speaker 4: ghosts exactly.
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: I usually caution, like the mystery reader or a traditional
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: thriller reader, that my works are like supernatural supernatural thriller
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: or supernatural mystery.
• 28:24
  Speaker 5: That's really I mean, yeah, sounds really good.
• 28:28
  Speaker 4: And you're not only you know, mixing and matching and
• 28:32
  Speaker 4: messing around with genres, you're also dealing with different literary forms.
• 28:36
  Speaker 4: Like you've already said, you've written short stories, you've written
• 28:39
  Speaker 4: poetry or verse, you've written novels. How do you decide
• 28:44
  Speaker 4: you get that great idea, how do you decide what
• 28:46
  Speaker 4: kind of project it's going to be?
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: Oh, so I think it right now. I think a
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: lot of the short story projects are come to me. Well,
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: I'll be in by it to a lot of projects.
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: Generally with my novels, those need to be very multi layered.
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: So a short story will just be like one idea
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: as opposed to a novel, I'll have like multiple themes involved.
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: So like in Vanishing Daughters, there's like the theme of grief.
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: Then there's also a lot of about Coggle's history with
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: being a home to like multiple serial killers, which is
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: very strange John Wayne Gacy, H Charles. And then there's
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: also this concept of true crime element where nearly fifty
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: one or over fifty one women have been murdered in
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: the Chicagoland area, which is true, and it seems like
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: that serial killer is at Lace. So I will weave
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: in multiple things and see if they compliment one another,
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: and then that will be a novel.
• 29:57
  Speaker 4: Interesting. And before we move on, I just got to
• 30:01
  Speaker 4: ask because Laura and I work with writers all the
• 30:05
  Speaker 4: time and many are writing short stories, and then they
• 30:08
  Speaker 4: ask and where do I send it? And I'm like, yeah,
• 30:11
  Speaker 4: that's tough. How do you get your short stories published?
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: So those it depends, because it's true the market for
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: short stories is very slim. There are a lot of
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: online magazines still that will publish short stories, and it's
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: important to you know, be involved in writing communities. There's
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: different websites now that will give like the timelines and
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: be aware of like submission deadlines. There's also calls for
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: anthologies where that's a great place if you can get
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: your short story placed and an anthology. I would really
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: recommend that, especially for like you writers, because that's an
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: opportunity to have your work showcased with established authors alongside,
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: and that would be a great opportunity to get more
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: eyes on your.
• 31:03
  Speaker 5: That's excellent advice. How do you how do you start
• 31:08
  Speaker 5: a new project? You've talked about how you consider your
• 31:11
  Speaker 5: themes and what elements you want to include, but do
• 31:14
  Speaker 5: you do you outline take notes? Would you call yourself
• 31:18
  Speaker 5: a panther or a planner?
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: I gosh, I am struggling right now with my next project,
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: which is interesting. I think it is true for some
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: writers say that every project it's a little bit different.
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: I am an out and I love taking copious amounts
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: of notes. So I love just stocking up on notebooks
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: when I'm going to start writing a new project. And
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: I love your research. I love, you know, going to
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: coffee shops and listening in on conversations that might kind
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: of be able to weave in to my stories from
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: how But I typically will write out my outline and excel.
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: It just makes sense for me because there's different fields,
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: and so I will break the note down chapter by chapters,
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: so I'm usually I write about thirty five is chapters,
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: So I tend to know like the midpoint is going
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: to be in the middle of the novel, and then
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: from there I'm able to kind of plot out where
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: the beats will fall. I usually write my novels more
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: based on like a traditional three act structure. No, it's
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: easier to map that out.
• 32:34
  Speaker 4: Well, I've just got to ask what are in the
• 32:36
  Speaker 4: different cells or the columns in your Excel spreadsheet. Is
• 32:39
  Speaker 4: that like chapter, plot, character or what.
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so I'm going to open one of mine that
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: I was actually looking at.
• 32:46
  Speaker 5: I used, I used an Excel sheet once I tried that.
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: It is a yeah, it's a little overwhelming, but I
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: call it my map, novel map. So what I will
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: have like on one column it's like the chapters, and
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: then over on the other tabs I will have like
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: so for example, I have you heard of Saved the Cat?
• 33:09
  Speaker 8: Of course yes, So I will have a series of columns,
• 33:14
  Speaker 8: so I have the Saved the Cat, and for example,
• 33:18
  Speaker 8: I have a column there that says save the cat.
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: Opening image generally happens between zero to one percent. And
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: so then I know, right chapter one, I'm going to
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: have to have my opening image around there. But then
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: next to save the Cat, I also have two other
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: comparable columns, a horror beat sheet and then a mystery
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: beat sheet. So in the mystery beat sheet column, I
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: have it written dramatic opening, an incident that sets the
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: story into motion. That's usually what within a mystery, something's
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: happening we're in there. And then with the horror beat
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: sheet column that says the world is not what it seems.
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: And then across that I will have like the character names,
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: what history. I'll have something written out in history so
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: that I can start pinning and understanding. It sounds really complicated.
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: It's difficult to that way, I know, all right. In
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: chapter one, this is what I'm going to target. I'm
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: targeting and opening sequence that says things in motion that
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: will make it seem like everything isn't what it seems,
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: and it will have that opening image from Saving the Cat.
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: And then I will list out for the characters within
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: that chapter. So it's overwhelming. It doesn't work for everyone,
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: but you can do it and outline in different ways.
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: You can just have an outlining word. I've told people
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: who don't like outlining think of it as even developing
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: something that's a guide post. You don't have really detailed
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: because the fun is sometimes just discovering. You can just
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: write down like one sentence or a few so that
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: you know these certain things are happening in this chapter
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: and you can continue building from there.
• 35:06
  Speaker 5: M M. You are very much a planner. I like that,
• 35:10
  Speaker 5: and I might revisit the Excel street I used. I
• 35:13
  Speaker 5: found it helpful to a point. And then I did
• 35:16
  Speaker 5: get kind of overwhelmed and reverted back to my just
• 35:19
  Speaker 5: line by line outline that I work from.
• 35:23
  Speaker 6: But I really like that, so thank you for sharing
• 35:25
  Speaker 6: that with this. And every novel is different. So what
• 35:30
  Speaker 6: ever worked for one novel, I'm seeing now what I'm
• 35:34
  Speaker 6: used to were from my previous novels isn't quite working
• 35:36
  Speaker 6: for this novel. So I'm tweaking my good advice.
• 35:40
  Speaker 5: So now can you describe your daily writing process so
• 35:44
  Speaker 5: that gets you started, and then how do you approach
• 35:46
  Speaker 5: the work each day to get it finished.
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: So I am a mom of two, yes nice, it
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: really my days are chaotic for any parents out there
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: daring for a love ones. So I generally in the morning,
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: I will try to wake up before everyone, get a
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: few things, a few key things done, shuffle everyone off
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: to school, and then when I come home, I have
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: a nice block of time and that's my time to
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: really write. And I am a big proponent of just
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: get the words down, however messy they look. They cause
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: can't edit what you don't have. So I just absolutely
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: and there'll be typos and things that don't make sense
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: now and it's you're not and it's just a jumble mess,
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: and then I get everybody back home, and then my
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: evening is sort of my opportunity to plan what I'm
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: going to do tomorrow. So like I'll look at my
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: outline and then I kind of like repull the levers
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: and tweak things around, because just because you're outlining, that
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: doesn't mean that that's set in stone. You can keep
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: tweaking things along. So my days are a little chaotic,
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: but I get the writing. However, I need to get it.
• 37:03
  Speaker 4: Done, and you are getting it done, and you've been
• 37:07
  Speaker 4: doing it for a while. Now, what are some of
• 37:10
  Speaker 4: the lessons you've learned along the way about writing or
• 37:12
  Speaker 4: publishing or something you didn't know when you started but
• 37:17
  Speaker 4: is apparent to you now.
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: Oh gosh, I just there's just so much. It's a
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: very I think it's a it's just an overwhelming industry,
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: the business aspect of it all. And I think what
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: I wish I knew then is that you have to
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: separate both of them. Yes, in your mind, there is
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: one component, which is the business, and you have no
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: control over that, and then there is the other component,
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: which is your writing, which is all that you have
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: control over. And as long as you're enjoying the writing.
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: Then that's like the best part because you can't control
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: all the other stuff. So I wish I didn't put
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: so much pressure on myself to feel like I had
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: to be, you know, perfect and everything and everything had
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: to work out. I think I would have just focused
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: more on me what I've learned, and so I'm back.
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: I think I've recalibrated and all of my energy is
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: back and to just focusing on the writing. And you know,
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: thankfully I'm agented. And then I just send stuff off
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: to my agent and then hi in a corner and
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: tel every reads it.
• 38:33
  Speaker 4: All right, fantastic. Well you sort of suggested you're working
• 38:37
  Speaker 4: on something. Now, what's coming out next? After Vanishing Daughters?
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: I'm working on a historical horror novel that takes place
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: in World War two. So right now I am really
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: just involved in all things research. Well, I hope to
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: for you all hon to see that soon, so we'll
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: see how it goes. But there's that's a fascinating time period. Yeah,
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: and in time, so it's just a lot of research,
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: no doubt.
• 39:06
  Speaker 4: Well, maybe a year from now, when you've gotten all
• 39:09
  Speaker 4: that worked out, we can have you back on the podcast.
• 39:12
  Speaker 4: To talk about that one which fairy tale will that
• 39:14
  Speaker 4: involve your pan? Oh, that's really intrigued, But it is.
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: Did I say world War two? I said World War One?
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: So it's World War one? Okay, So yeah, so that's
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: what I'm working on right now.
• 39:29
  Speaker 4: Sounds fantastic. Hey, well, good luck with Vanishing Daughters, and
• 39:35
  Speaker 4: thank you so much for being on the podcast.
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: Thank you, this is lovely. I appreciate your time.
• 39:45
  Speaker 4: Just a few parting words. Let me remind you that
• 39:49
  Speaker 4: we are getting ever closer to the writer Con Cruise,
• 39:53
  Speaker 4: which is May thirty first to seven, going to Alaska,
• 39:56
  Speaker 4: leaving from Seattle, and I want to emphasize that we
• 40:01
  Speaker 4: have reserved a block of rooms and have gotten a
• 40:05
  Speaker 4: great discount I mean a serious discount for people coming
• 40:10
  Speaker 4: for writer Con, you know, for the writing classes on board.
• 40:14
  Speaker 4: But it is not infinite and when it runs out,
• 40:17
  Speaker 4: it's gone. So if you're thinking about this register now
• 40:22
  Speaker 4: and take advantage of that discount, pluck. You're going to
• 40:26
  Speaker 4: get twenty hours of writing instructions scheduled while the boats
• 40:30
  Speaker 4: at sea, not when you want to go off and
• 40:32
  Speaker 4: see the ice cap, smelt or whatever. And we always
• 40:36
  Speaker 4: have a great time and get a lot done. Laura
• 40:39
  Speaker 4: Quick final jeopardy. How many people who have come on
• 40:42
  Speaker 4: that quiz? Would you guess? Are published now on the cruise?
• 40:47
  Speaker 4: Yeah is good quiz, but on the crewise this.
• 40:52
  Speaker 5: Is the Cruise now published quite a few, with more
• 40:56
  Speaker 5: in the pipeline, and some of them are starting to
• 40:59
  Speaker 5: win aboards for their work.
• 41:01
  Speaker 4: Ooh good point. Yeah. Anyway, it's really worth doing if
• 41:05
  Speaker 4: you're interested in bringing or writing up to the next level.
• 41:09
  Speaker 4: Not to mention seeing the beauty of Alaska. I'm so excited,
• 41:13
  Speaker 4: Google writer con I'll leave a link in the show
• 41:15
  Speaker 4: notes and may I also mentioned that I got a
• 41:19
  Speaker 4: new novel out's coming out next Oh, it'll be yesterday
• 41:25
  Speaker 4: when this book is released, when this podcast is released.
• 41:29
  Speaker 4: I can't get anything right today. But it is Challengers
• 41:32
  Speaker 4: of the Dust change a pace for me because it's
• 41:35
  Speaker 4: set in nineteen thirty five dust Bowl, Oklahoma. Two young
• 41:40
  Speaker 4: men are forced to undertake an impossible mission find the
• 41:45
  Speaker 4: local big wigs wayward daughter, which sends them on a
• 41:48
  Speaker 4: cross country trek during which they meet a lot of
• 41:52
  Speaker 4: Depression era people, including some famous and soon to be
• 41:57
  Speaker 4: famous people. It's a change pace, but it's a lot
• 42:01
  Speaker 4: of fun, and especially if you're interested in history or
• 42:04
  Speaker 4: the time period the Depression, World War two, the period
• 42:08
  Speaker 4: that literally transformed America in a good way. Here's your book,
• 42:13
  Speaker 4: Challengers are the dest Okay.
• 42:15
  Speaker 5: I think I heard that you had a pretty good
• 42:17
  Speaker 5: editor for that too.
• 42:19
  Speaker 4: I have a pretty good editor on all of my works,
• 42:22
  Speaker 4: and it's just so good. I made her a co
• 42:24
  Speaker 4: host on the podcast. So and on that note, until
• 42:30
  Speaker 4: next time, keep writing and remember you cannot fail if
• 42:35
  Speaker 4: you refuse to quit. All right, See you next time.