Latest / The Diary of a CFO / The Art of Becoming a Strategic CFO, with Dr. Tamer Alsayed

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The Art of Becoming a Strategic CFO, with Dr. Tamer Alsayed · The Diary of a CFO

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Today's episode is brought to you by Bail, a
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to download it. And I'll also drop the link in
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the show notes. Welcome back to the diary of
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a CFO podcast. The podcast where finance leaders
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share the lessons, challenges, and wins that
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shape their careers, as well as their organizations.
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I'm your host, Waseea Kaman, and today I'm so
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delighted to have with me Dr. Tamel Asaid. Currently
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holds a CFO position at the Future Investment
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Initiative, which is part of the Saudi Public
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Sovereign Fund, PIF. He is a finance leader with
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over 23 years of hands -on experience across
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industries, countries, and boardrooms. His work
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in everything from family business to big four
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firms to large regional groups, always with one
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goal in mind to make finance matter beyond the
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numbers. He holds a FCMA, a CGMA, with a PhD
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in global finance. Over the years, he's led IPOs,
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M &A deals, turnarounds, but he will be the first
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to tell you... then none of that matters unless
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you are building trust, clarity, and real value.
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Welcome to the show, Dr. Tamer. Pleasure to be
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here. Thank you, Asia. I really appreciate the
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opportunity to share my knowledge and my thoughts
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with your audience. Thank you. Oh, thank you.
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I know that you have a PhD in finance, so for
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somebody to go to that level, I'm always curious
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to hear what drew you to finance in the first
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place. You want to hear the truth? Yes. Okay,
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it was a challenge between me and a friend and
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I won the bet But anyway, anyway, I love to study.
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I love to read I love to push myself to the limit
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and I talk it I talk it after my CGMA challenge
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because I I had many challenges during my career
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But again, it was like the cherry on the top
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and I love the experience Good for you. Good
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for you. So why don't you tell us what brought
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you to this point in your career? Where are you
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a CF when also an author which I hope we get
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to talk a bit a bit more about that What was
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some unexpected twist along the way? That's like
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you're bringing me back. Well, it's like I've
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had a few I've had a few I started in audit like
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many do big four firms long hours Coffees that
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could strip paint from the walls, but it taught
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me discipline and precision. Then I jumped into
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industry, private companies, family businesses,
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oil and gas, manufacturing, technology, and I
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have like worn many hats so far. One of the biggest
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twists is like getting into a massive family
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conglomerate early in my career and realizing
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that logic alone does not move people. Relation
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and networking matter. Emotions matter. I had
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to learn fast how to influence others. Influence
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without authority. And that's what shaped my
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leadership style, my mindset, my vision, that
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always human comes first by finance second. Another
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twist, another twist was, yeah, because you asked,
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another twist was becoming a CFO in my 30s. In
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a region where experience, experience was everything.
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I was very young, by the way, and I look young
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somehow. You still do. I have good genes. I have
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good genes. I don't know. So I was too young
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for the position. That's why I learned into strategy.
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I tried to build trust with the board, with the
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founders, with the management, with my colleague,
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with my peers as well, and focused on impact,
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not the title. That's what brought me and that's
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what attracted me. Nice. And I like how you said
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you became a CFO in your thirties, you're too
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young for the role because that's me right now.
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So I'm curious to see what do you think made
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you stand out, right? Because you said you were
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in an environment where experience with everything
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and yet you were picked for the role. What would
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you say are some of the things that helped you
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make that move at some point? Why would they
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go, we need this guy to be our CFO? You're asking
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so hard and tough question. I have to give it
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to you. Okay, I always had this one thing in
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mind. I look young, so I should do what exactly?
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Exceed whatever the expectations are. Expectations
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in terms of company's role, job description,
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my competition. So I had this in mind that whenever
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I go for a qualification, for a study, for a
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course, for a program, I always go market oriented.
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So what does market oriented means? Where is
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the market is headed in terms of finance investment?
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Compliance risk audit I would go after yeah,
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it depends on reading the market attending conferences
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meeting new people listening to the discussion
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what's going on what are the risks in the market
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and I will go and Take this course and thank
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God I succeed one of the most most challenging
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qualification I have ever had is the CIMA. It's
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long. Yeah. Tell the audience what the CIMA is
5:42
because I'm here in the U .S. and we do the CPA
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and it's four parts and we think like it's a
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big deal. Please tell us how does the CIMA works?
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Please. So I don't want to make it complicated,
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but I want you to. go with the CIMA, which is
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the Chartered Institute of Management Accountants
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from the UK. And once you pass, hopefully you
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pass, because it's very, very hard, you will
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become an associate ACMA, Associate Chartered
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Management Accountant, and Chartered Global Management
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Accountant. What does it mean for me to become
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one? It took me over two years to finish, especially
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the strategic level. That's where we Most of
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us fail. Me, myself, I failed twice. One of my
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dear friends failed four times. And he passed
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the fifth. And why is that? Because you're not
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going to pass until you change your mindset from
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controlling the books to think beyond the numbers.
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Think future, strategically driven. Become a
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true finance business partner. and get out of
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your comfort zone. I used to study in the weekends.
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Three hours before my duty starts, I skipped
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many family occasions because I had this one
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goal in mind. I must pass it. No, I'm way better
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than this. And I did, I did. And I was crying,
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by the way, by the end. When I just opened the
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website and found the green box, pass, was my
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mark. Oh my God. I called my wife. Please come
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she she was asleep come and read this for me.
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I'm not sure if I'm dreaming or it's a nightmare
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Yeah, I was not dreaming and it was actually
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true and I made it fast and three years later
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I'm a fellow so yeah It's been hard. It's been
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hard and how many parts are in the exam before
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you get to the strategic level? To two parts.
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Okay Then you have to go strategic level and
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then you have to spend couple years before you
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actually become good Congratulations Is that
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that point of studying for that exam that makes
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you realize that you needed to really stretch
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yourself to be at the strategic level Or did
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you realize it earlier in your career? No, it
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really happened you a specific time in my career
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this shift happens happened when I joined a startup,
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a new startup at the CFO. I love startup life,
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I love startup mindset. The company was, I can
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name the company now, it's called Paxil, P -A
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-W -X -A -N, it's an American company, American
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investment manufacturing. It was in manufacturing,
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we had this incredible patent technology for
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plastic shipping pallets registered in both the
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US and the Middle East. It wasn't just spreadsheets,
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not at all, not at all. It was suddenly, I was
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part of something being built from scratch. We
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were flying across the world, meeting investor
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pitching, pitching at road shows, structuring
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series A, B, and even C rounds. And I wasn't
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just building financial models or crunching numbers
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as they call it these days. I was helping shape
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the story, helping drafting the future of Pakistan.
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the evolution, the valuation, and the future
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of the business. That journey literally led something
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in me inside. It showed me that finance is not
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just about reporting the past. We all know that
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we report the past. It's about influencing what
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comes next, what comes after. From that point
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on, I stopped thinking like a finance controller
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or a finance guy and started thinking like an
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architect. if you may call it, of the business.
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And literally strategy became my default setting,
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my default setting. I just turn it on and it
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never shut down or turn off again. Oh, that's
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amazing. And how would you describe strategy?
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I feel like we use we use strategic thinking
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a lot of time, but it's hard to. touch it. It's
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hard for some people to grasp it. So if you were
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to give an example of what is being strategic
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about something versus being technical about
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one thing, right? So you gave the example of
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you are a startup. What is something that's very
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technical thinking, right? But what is something
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that's more strategic, like when you're trying
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to impress investors and do things like that?
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Oh my God. It's like you're digging, you're digging
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in my... Yes. You're going to wear multiple hats.
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You're going to wear multiple hats. You're going
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to make sure that suit fits you, whatever the
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suit is. So when I say suit, I'm talking about
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the business model. I'm talking about the ecosystem.
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strategic means you see beyond others and I try
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to always do that. What if multiple scenarios
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scenario planning you try to find information
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in the market by reading by discussing by listening
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more than you talk and try always to come with
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something new something to the table if again
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because I usually said that If you don't have
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a seat at the table, maybe you are on the menu.
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Oh, that is nice. You'll be eaten. I love it.
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If you don't have a seat at the table, then you're
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probably on the menu. Wow. Yep. So I always try
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to come up with something new, something creative
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out of the box and make value. It's all about
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value. Yes. And you've worked in IPO readiness
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and M &A deals at different companies. What do
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you think companies should stop doing when they're
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trying to impress investors or start doing? I
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love this one. I love this one. I should meet
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your editor later. My editor is me and Chad GPT.
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Here's what companies should stop doing. Faking
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maturity. Faking maturity. They should stop it.
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Investors are not stupid anymore. They've seen
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polished decks pitched from people, the inflated
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forecasts, the multiples like crazy and the unrealistic
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hockey stick projections. What they want is honesty,
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clarity, and control. Honesty, clarity, and control.
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So stop overselling stop hiding weaknesses and
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Company should become more transparent about
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their risks their gaps and Whatever gab in the
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plan show it and explain it and justify it and
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how we can come up with solutions in the future
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if you are not ready say so and Show how you
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are getting ready or when will you become ready
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and please please? Stop thinking branding will
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cover bad governance. Because they always think
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about it. Oh, we have a big name. We have a brand.
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We have been building. Okay, that's fine. But
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again, what about the control, the governance,
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the SOPs? It doesn't. It doesn't. You want to
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impress investors? Fix your internal chaos first.
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They can't smell it, by the way. They can smell
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it from a mile away. Yes, they can. And as a
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CFO, as a finance leader in those situation,
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there is always that challenge, right? Where
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the business wants to impress investors by doing
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the thing you just say you should stop doing.
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Marketing team, sales team, like they all want
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to do that. But then you come in and you're trying
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to get them to balance and say, okay, maybe let's
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not do this. Like, can you give us example of...
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you know, maybe frameworks or tips you have when
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as a CFO, you have to deal with this. You have
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to be able to say, no, I'm not going to show
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this over inflated forecast or challenge the
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business to do the right thing. It happened many
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times and it's still happening, especially when,
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okay, let's not talk about investors or startups
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when you raise funds. No, let's talk about the
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board. We have a board meeting and you see, or
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let's say the marketing chief, the sales, yeah,
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the legal guy gathered in a meeting. We want
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to show strong numbers, but we don't have the
15:01
capacity. We don't have the capability to achieve.
15:04
Maybe you show a forecast for a very good year
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and you come up in the first quarter showing
15:13
bad numbers. The second quarter showing very
15:18
bad numbers, but you will recover in the third
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and fourth second half of the year you will recover
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and you will at that time at that time it was
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a conflict between holding back being a bad cup
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and The CEO was pushing show perfect numbers.
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So I told them we should become transparent I
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don't want to say a different word. We should
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be transparent and again having a meeting and
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showing what those numbers can affect us and
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how it will affect us in the future because we
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will be in a very bad situation, in a bad position
15:56
in front of the world if we show something and
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the actual is like miles away from what we have
16:02
budgeted. Communication is key in this situation.
16:07
You come up with multiple scenarios, show the
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what if, what if. with the projection with the
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assumptions and if they are not convinced yet
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don't show it no sit more in a meeting try to
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explain where's the stack this time because sometimes
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they say to the CFO looks like you are talking
16:30
Chinese to me with full respect to Chinese language
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they don't understand what you think so come
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down to their level and try to educate them more
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about the future about the impact because when
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the why it's clear the how is easy. Yes. When
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the why is clear, the how is easy. When you know
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the why, the issue, the problem, how to fix it
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and how to put it down in a piece of paper to
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the board is easy. But it's sometimes, like you
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said, you're talking and they hear something
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else like gibberish. How do you think we can
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do a better job of, like you said, coming down
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to their level, like understanding how to simplify
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those complex accounting terms? Because, you
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know, you go through school, through all the
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certification, everything is technical as if
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you're only talking to accountants. And then
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you get into the world and it's like, we didn't
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go to school with you, we didn't take the CMA,
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like we didn't take all these things you took.
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What has been your experience in learning to
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simplify those terms for them and really connect?
17:32
Let's take a quick break to thank Bill, who is
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17:48
Now back to the episode. Okay. Whenever you submit
17:52
a report, you have two types of information,
17:56
right? Visualized data and your narrative. Plus,
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what are you saying during the meeting? Okay,
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first of all, data and numbers tell the story.
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So I try to paint and write a story whenever
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I'm working on a report. And I always, always
18:13
start my report with one executive summary. Okay,
18:17
listen to this. It's very important. I have this
18:19
first slide, first slide that combined one part
18:24
about the context, what I'm presenting today.
18:28
Second part is the update. what happened from
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the last meeting. Third part is the challenges,
18:35
what I'm facing. Fourth part is my recommendation,
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what I'm recommending. Sometimes we don't go
18:43
past or go beyond slide number one. Maybe I have
18:47
these five to seven slides, but we usually, like
18:50
80 % of the time, stick to slide number one,
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where I put all my data, my story. my updates,
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my challenges, my recommendation in one slide
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in a very simple narrative beyond the fluff,
19:04
beyond the noise and explain everything in the
19:09
most simplified words you can ever hear. I love
19:12
the idea of that executives already lining up
19:15
everything so you can really start having good
19:17
discussions as opposed to clicking through 10
19:19
,000 things and trying to get to the end. Which
19:24
bring me to my other thing. I saw that you said
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somewhere You're not the kind of CFO who hides
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behind dashboard. So what do you think separates
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a good CFO from a great CFO? Okay. Okay. I give
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it to you. A good CFO reports the past. I have
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said that before, but a great CFO shapes the
19:46
future, shapes the direction. A good CFO gives
19:49
you a clean financials, but a great one will
19:53
give you the clarity in chaos. Okay. Last one,
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a good CFO protects, but a great CFO provokes.
20:03
Wow. Provokes. I don't believe in hiding behind
20:07
dashboards or KPIs at all. Those are tools. Those
20:13
are tools. You feel it. You get it. Not shields.
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They are tools for us to use. Not shields. We
20:19
cannot hide behind. The best CFOs walk the halls,
20:24
talk to the people, challenge strategy. support
20:27
the CEO, and most importantly, they know when
20:31
to say no. And by the way, I have this whenever
20:35
I join a new company and there is this CEO, I
20:38
always tell him, consider me as your first and
20:41
last line of defense. I'm your first and last
20:45
line of defense. Utilize my skills and ask me.
20:50
And personally, I think a great CFO is a teacher.
20:54
Somehow we are teaching others. I mentor a lot
20:59
of young professionals, by the way, and I tell
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them, your job is not to be the smartest guy
21:05
in the room, because some of us love to show
21:09
off. It's to make others smarter because of you.
21:14
Yes, the inside. To make your CEO smarter than
21:16
you. You get me? Yes, absolutely. And I like
21:20
how you use practical example. And I wanted to
21:23
just pivot to your book. Like why don't you tell
21:27
us I know you mentioned a lot of case studies
21:30
like tell us a bit about what led you to write
21:32
the book and All these case studies that you
21:36
brought together to help that next generation
21:39
of finance leaders uh, okay, I wrote this book
21:44
the art of becoming a strategic cfo And why I
21:48
wrote it is something that I feel it deep in
21:52
my heart And I see it in every occasion, whenever
21:57
I speak, whenever I mentor, whenever I answer
22:00
a question to a colleague that's like 10, 15
22:03
years younger than me. We have always this gap
22:08
between academic and professional life. There
22:13
is a big gap. People stuck in their career, especially
22:17
mid -level finance professionals, between seven
22:22
to 10 years of experience. They're unable to
22:25
decide what to do, what would be my next step,
22:30
how to target companies, how to target qualifications,
22:33
how to target experience. Then I had this in
22:36
mind. I think I should step up and help. So I
22:41
did. It has like 22 chapters. I should send you
22:45
one copy. Okay. It has 22 chapters. And it's
22:54
not academic at all. You would be surprised.
22:57
It's not academic at all. Walking you through
23:00
actual situations, role play, case studies. Some
23:04
of them are real from actual real study. Actual
23:08
problem happened and you have to read and elaborate.
23:12
And then I'll give you my own version of the
23:15
problem. It's a challenge. And you're going to
23:18
read it through and wear the hat of a problem
23:21
solver. or futuristic CFO, strategic CFO, and
23:26
step in and solve it yourself. That's how it
23:28
started and ended. That's amazing and sad at
23:32
the same time that we're all going through the
23:34
same gap. Right now, I think you are in Saudi
23:37
Arabia and I'm here in the U .S. and we have
23:41
the same gap between academic and then professional
23:45
when it comes to accounting and finance, like
23:47
the way we go in school and what we learn, we
23:50
come out, it works the couple of few years, maybe
23:53
you get a certification and then you stuck. What
23:56
do you think we can do better? Like across the
23:59
globe, what can we do better about our profession?
24:03
Can I say something? And allow me to, again,
24:07
it's something provoking. I haven't had, I was
24:11
not lucky to have a good manager, a good mentor.
24:14
And it hurts me. It hurts me a lot. So I have
24:18
decided to be the complete opposite. Good for
24:21
you. Okay. I extend the hand. I extend the hand.
24:25
I mentor, I help, I support. I love the team
24:29
who works with me. Whenever I, let's say, I always
24:34
try to build a better version of Dr. Tamer within
24:39
my team. So each and every one of them could
24:42
become one day a very well -fed successor. Because
24:47
the seat is not always there. One day you're
24:50
going to move out or move up. So someone will
24:54
replace you. If he's not your successor, I think
24:58
if I cannot build a team of successors, I'm a
25:03
failure. And I'm not a failure. So if you are
25:06
a manager, if you are a director, if you have
25:08
a team, support your mentors. and become a good
25:11
one. Yes that's definitely something that will
25:14
help like bridge that gap between you know how
25:18
you did academically and then you come to professional
25:20
work having that mentorship that will help you
25:24
right get to the level like you said of being
25:27
a successor but not everybody has that you know
25:31
yes I want to help yes I want to step in Yes,
25:34
I want to have successors. Like, what would you
25:37
say to people like that? I'm curious. Get yourself
25:39
together. Okay. You're talking about the employee
25:45
type of no, I'm not up to the challenge. Not
25:49
I'm not up to the challenge or the manager is
25:52
not making time to coach the employee or maybe
25:56
not realizing they need to be that figure to
25:59
pull them up. Find a mentor. If it's not your
26:03
manager, find a mentor. Trust me, trust me. It
26:07
makes a big difference. It makes a big difference.
26:10
It will help you like, oh my God, it will save
26:13
you a lot of time. If I had that mentor early
26:16
in my career, I would have become CFO in my 20s.
26:22
It does make a difference. I mean, I have mentors
26:25
myself and I mean the... The ROI, if I can say,
26:30
is unbelievable. It's unbelievable. So from your
26:34
mentors that you finally had, because you said
26:37
you didn't have mentors earlier, you probably
26:39
had them later on, what was the best career advice
26:42
you've ever received from them? What are some?
26:46
I'll give you the best one. Stay curious, stay
26:49
hungry and read a lot. But curiosity makes you
26:55
different, makes you unique. Because if you're
26:58
not curious, it means you are going with the
27:01
flow. I love challenges. I love to ask. It doesn't
27:06
matter a bad or good question, but I love to
27:09
ask. I love to stay curious and dig in the numbers
27:12
or even what's behind the numbers. But again,
27:15
curiosity makes magic. I agree. I agree. That's
27:20
a good one. Thanks for sharing. So two more questions
27:23
before I let you go. What is a career advice
27:27
you usually give people? I know you mentioned
27:30
finding a mentor. You just mentioned being curious.
27:33
What is something else you would give to the
27:37
next generation of finance leaders or CFOs? Please
27:42
stop caring about numbers. Care about the cross.
27:47
What number means. What numbers means. What type
27:51
of leader you want to become and pursue it. I
27:55
always love okay I'm talking like leadership
27:59
now okay always whenever you talk to someone
28:04
try to leave an impact a positive impact okay
28:08
when you talk to strangers leave an impact what
28:11
about yourself what about yourself okay it is
28:15
your own career is your own future leave an impact
28:20
on yourself try to leave the legacy behind you
28:25
No one will live forever but building a legacy
28:30
and Different versions better than you is an
28:35
impact and I always love to have an impact on
28:38
people and on myself first so stay curious stay
28:43
hungry and Never never never stop learning You
28:48
will become obsolete. Oh gosh Yes. Can we talk
28:53
about AI for a second? I feel like everything
28:57
we learn is like, okay, what do we do now with
29:02
AI and all that? What are your thoughts? If I
29:07
may echo what you just said, I was at this conference
29:12
in Riyadh last week. It's called the Future CFO
29:17
Leadership, and I hosted a group discussion titled
29:22
AI and CFOs. Are we training our replacements
29:27
or assistance? Oh, nice. And the discussion went,
29:33
oh my God, over the roof because we had, we had
29:37
like mix of professions, not only in finance,
29:41
HR, IT, sales and management as well. So instead
29:48
of asking about only finance people. The discussion
29:52
went far away, even past finance went to IT.
29:58
So would AI replace CTOs, for example? Okay.
30:03
Would AI replace salespeople somehow? The HR,
30:10
procurement, and the feedback I got from the
30:15
audience was like mind blowing. Some of them
30:18
believe like 40 % of our day -to -day operation
30:23
will be eliminated. And I agree with that because
30:26
it meant to help you make decision faster and
30:32
like, let's say 90 % accurate. So it save your
30:36
time, help you lead in the right way. But what
30:41
about other professions? You get my point? What
30:44
about other professions? What will happen? It's
30:47
not only finance guys. wake up stop only finance
30:50
it's true because we work with other functions
30:54
and however they're being transformed we will
30:57
also be transformed right like if your peer now
31:00
is a robot i don't know or you know have that
31:03
kind of assistant it's good to stay up to date
31:06
but i love that that that concept and how can
31:09
we find those kind of things right because i
31:12
would have loved to attend that but you're on
31:14
the other side of the world Do you have a website
31:17
like how can we um catch such great insight from
31:20
right here asking for a friend? I'll send the
31:24
invitation later. I'll tell you what happened.
31:27
Okay. I've been using ai for the past two years
31:30
two years Yeah, yeah personally and professionally
31:33
personally and professionally and I came up with
31:35
this ai tool i'm, not sure if I should say the
31:39
name or not But anyway, anyway, I was like late
31:42
at night 10 pm having my coffee and watching
31:46
a movie and I was bored. I said, why not I go
31:50
and try it out and find what will happen. So
31:54
after four hours of playing with AI, I created
31:59
this lovely website that teaches you corporate
32:04
finance with live examples, with dashboard, with
32:07
different case studies and scenarios website,
32:12
fully functional in four hours. Yep. Wow. It
32:16
was an introduction about who created the website,
32:18
which is me, a link to my LinkedIn profile, and
32:22
of course a box to send me questions or how to
32:26
improve this website. Amazing. And the people
32:30
loved it. And still, until yesterday, I'm getting
32:34
DMs on LinkedIn, I just logged out of your website
32:38
and it's teaching me a lot. I'm getting a lot
32:42
of information, a lot of... new ideas. It's not
32:45
only it covers the whole ecosystem of corporate
32:49
funds. Okay. From NPV, from DCF to investment
32:54
valuation. Four hours. Yes, in four hours. Yeah.
32:58
So you're going to share the website with us
33:00
in the show notes? No, it's impressive. And it
33:05
goes back to what you said about If you don't
33:08
keep learning, you'll be obsolete. Because the
33:10
minute, I think the pace of technology now, the
33:14
minute you think you have arrived, something
33:16
else shows up. You really need to stay curious
33:19
and stay learning. Thank you so much for such
33:22
greetings. And my last question, what is your
33:25
favorite thing to do outside of work and building
33:27
a website with AI? Oh, that's a personal one.
33:32
Yes. Okay, what? What you don't know about me,
33:36
and nobody knows about me, is that I am a professional
33:42
competitor in Ironman and Spartan Race. Oh, wow.
33:48
That's why you look so young. Shoot. Wow. So
33:54
you do the full Ironman. My best friend did one
33:58
last year. You did two. No, I do it every year.
34:02
You do it every year. Wow. Okay. So how many
34:06
hours do you train a week to do this? I train
34:10
every day. So during the weekdays, I lift weight.
34:14
During the weekend, I join classes like body
34:18
pump, circuit training, and boot camp. Wow. So
34:22
you're swimming, the cycling, the weights, everything.
34:26
Okay. Okay. Okay, Ironman. Dr. Iron Man. I should
34:33
change the title on LinkedIn. Yes, Dr. Tamer,
34:37
Iron Man outside. Yeah, you're right. You're
34:41
right. It's a passion. It's a passion. That is
34:45
amazing. That is amazing. And off record, I'll
34:48
ask you all about it. But thank you. Thank you
34:51
so much for being on the show. It was such a
34:53
joy to talk with you. I appreciate it. Thank
34:56
you. Thank you so much. You were like a bless.
34:59
And I love your smile. I love the way you moderate
35:02
and your questions are out of this world. Thank
35:05
you so much. And that's it for today's episode
35:09
of The Diary of a CFO. Thank you so much for
35:11
tuning in. If you enjoyed the show, don't forget
35:14
to like, review, subscribe and share with others.
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35:37
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35:39
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