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Transcript

Triggers Should Fade as We Heal · The Habit Lab

• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: We all have areas in our life we might feel stuck or overwhelmed.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: So join me, Jenna Zint, habit coach, teacher, and follower of Jesus, as we go after little bits of better by building offensively small habits that create big impact.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_00: This is the Habit Lab Podcast.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: Habit Lab, this is Jenna Zint.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: This episode we are talking about kind of the idea that as we grow, our triggers should diminish.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: Which I feel like, what is a trigger?
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: A trigger is maybe uh a burst of anger or flooded with fear or shame or um a response that is disproportionate to the situation, or maybe that specific thing.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: Almost think of it like maybe uh allergy, you know, like you have food allergies, but sometimes I'm like, oh, when people are really curt to me and kind of like bossy and short clipped commands, that is a trigger from Jenna.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: That's a Jenna trigger.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: Aaron doesn't, it doesn't trigger him the same way.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like doesn't mean it's his favorite way for someone to tell him how to help, but it's not the same response that happens.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: So I almost think of it as like an allergy to a pattern, um, a human behavior, a type of person, a type of response, a specific person, not just, you know, like a bossy-empowered woman, you know, like whatever.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: So that would in general how I would say like a disproportionate response that's unique to you for behavior, pattern, type of person, situation, whatever.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I think though that the reason I think a lot of times we can get stuck, whether it's self-help culture or as we're on our own healing, growth, awareness, learning, um, journeys with the Lord, I think us I did a lot of people get ice stuck in identifying the triggers and don't move past healing out of them.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's almost like going back to the allergy analogy.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's like childhood allergies.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: The hope is that as you grow, you grow your body develops and you grow out of them versus like lifelong.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I I haven't really heard a ton of people talk about it.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_00: So um I actually didn't quite know it was possible.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: I almost thought like triggers were there for life, or no one really says that, but like this triggers me is feels almost like a finite or an absolute or an immovable thing a bit.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, just want to talk about actually that as you heal, like as you become healthier instead of having boundaries to protect, like to create distance from those triggers, that actually it's almost like the fences come down and then the boundary lines can shift.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like this, this almost like gospel approach to emotional health is the idea that as we get healthier, we can move closer.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: Whether the person gets healthier or not, it's like, oh, it's almost reminds me of like our own sanctification and like becoming more like the Lord.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: What it doesn't mean is it's instant or quick.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's how we can like shame ourselves into almost maybe expediting the process more than is honest for what we can handle.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe so that's one half.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_00: And then the other end of the spectrum would be the this is my forever allergy versus like, what about a reasonable Holy Spirit-led pace that slowly works you out of that allergy and no longer you no longer respond the way you used to.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and this comes, have you guys know the last episode of the podcast?
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: I shared a pretty personal story about my family and some of the redemption that I've got to witness over the last couple years.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_00: Specifically, the last episode was about this summer, this summer, and um I was sitting there, you know, looking at my family and getting a little teary.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_00: I was reflecting, I can't remember where it was, but I was like, I just kept going back to like the question I kept saying is, God, how did you do this?
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how did you do this that I'm watching from what I knew to be like where we were, what like just how, like, how did you do this?
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_00: And the reality is like it's not just my parents' marriage that has changed.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_00: Thinking about it, like my relationship with my mom, and I I don't think I really touched on that in the last episode, has really shifted and morphed.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: And even this summer had some high, like, oh, I feel a little teary, like high new water high level marks, if that makes sense.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like, oh, I've never actually felt this level, like new levels of affection and adoration and admiration.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: And it doesn't mean it wasn't there before, but it's new, new heights, you know.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, so part of the question of like how did we get here is is also thinking about how much that relationship has shifted.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: And with my mom, our relationship, you know, like a lot of teen parent ones through my teens was tumultuous tumultuous, and even in my 20s, um, I'm not gonna tell the full fullness of that story on this podcast because it's hers too.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but it wasn't just on my half of teen angst.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but there was definitely enough dysfunction and enough pain that if you had showed me the relationship I have today with my mom, I I oh I feel teary.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, I would not have believed you.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember even for better or worse, just be an honest confession, like when I was 17 or 18, thinking like, I don't know if my mom will get much time with my kids.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's like a lot of pain, a lot of, yeah, just making statements like that.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: So just wanted to give you like a a brief picture of how far we've come to then like every trip that I go home, I try to have one date with my mom, like alone time with my mom and one time with my dad, because we are doing the family kid thing so much to like just hear them their heart and get my undivided attention.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that was part that was when the watermark moment of like, oh my gosh, like I like so flooded with all the emotion towards my mom.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, how did we get here, Lord?
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like going back to that question of like, how did you do this?
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you guys, oh, I was sitting there reflecting on how different like everything's now.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_00: And one thing that was like incredibly humbling is that I am the one who changed.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: And that actually could sound prideful.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_00: Hear me out.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_00: The Lord pointed out ways that I should grow, not like look at Jenna, the superhero.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: That's not it.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_00: The Lord is like, okay, you gotta work on this.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, you gotta go work on this, and even um, it doesn't mean obviously that everyone else stayed the same.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_00: They didn't.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't mean that everything that happened like was my fault.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like, honestly, it was very much not 50-50.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: There was a lot of ownership on the other end, too.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: It like wasn't.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I actually feel like this episode, just to not get into that part of the picture, is something about much smaller for me and much harder.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: And probably the last decade, what it has come down to when I'm looking like how do we get here?
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: Answering that specific question and watching how much the Lord changed me, I realized that every single year that I would go home and visit my family, the Lord would give me like something to work on.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I, you know, I love habits.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_00: So frankly, it was not just like big picture.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_00: It was actually a tangible, really offensively small, actionable step.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like it was like, you want to call it homework, you know, summer homework, we want to call it um family habit.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know, like, I don't have a verbiage for it, but like he actually started this, like Holy Spirit started this on my own, like with introducing like, hey, this summer I want you to do, blah, blah, blah.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_00: But then it became so regular that I would, in prep for my visit, be like, okay, what do you want me to work on this summer?
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: And the interesting part, if you heard, again, how do we get here?
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: The humbling part of he changed me is that when I would ask him that, he never gave me assignments for them.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: And y'all, I mean, they could have had assignments.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe there were some available.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: No, I'm kidding.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: But my point is like, I think in we miss sometimes in the noticing dysfunction of others the radical own ownership of that we still always have something that we get to work on.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: So every year it was not an assignment for them, or to notice what doesn't go well in my family, or yeah, it was always an assignment for me.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I I know I'm gonna move on to some practical examples of like maybe what these little assignments look like, or what the habits or homework you want to call it from the Lord, about that I would go home uh in the summer.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: But I can't, I don't know that I can express how humbling it is to think.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_00: I bet you could relate.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: So maybe it wasn't your relationship with your mom.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe there's it's a spouse, it's a sibling, I don't know, pastor, leader, coworker, whatever.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: But you would think in your brain, in your perspective, maybe 75% of the work that needs to be done is on their end, and then maybe 25%'s you.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_00: Because most of us don't assume, you know, we're not naive enough to think it's 90-10 or something like that.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_00: But so then for me to look at like that would be my perspective of what I would have thought, and probably beyond just my perspective, I bet there would be other people who would have us be like 25% you, 75% shifts on her or things to work on, or growth.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_00: So I feel like I feel actually like emotional when I remember being like, so you what you just did and transformed was me just being willing to look on at my 25% and not almost like I'll wait until she does, you know, or you know, or that or some level of that hesitation.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, you are actually able to do this radical transformation with just 25%.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like, won't I'm not saying my mom's done nothing or anything like that, so please don't hear that.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_00: But this idea that like we're stuck until the other person works or they deal with their dysfunction or become less toxic or have an encounter with the Lord, like this almost like powerlessness to them changing to then sh have a transformative cultural shift in the relationship is like it was like eyes wide open.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like humbling of like, but you didn't just you didn't change how I interact with her, y'all.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like it wasn't just I got better at handling a lion.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_00: It was like, oh, you actually, there are summers that I like it was the assignment was repenting.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: There are assignments, there were summers that like I was like, wow, I've so seen this wrong for you know like my whole life.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't just like, you know, like I said, go be better with that.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: It was like, oh no, there's like truly things he called me out on.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: He'd convict me of, he'd be like, you actually have the wrong frame of reference, change this and I was like, holy moly, like how humbling to be like, I'm gonna oversimplify what my teenage self might have said, but like, hey, go fix that toxic lady.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_00: And then now the fast forward of like, wow, it's so beautiful, what'd you do?
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_00: And then to be like, oh, he fixed your toxicness, Jenna.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: And you're like, what?
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_00: My toxic what?
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: No, them.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_00: So the the the beautiful part of this is though, it's absolutely possible.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_00: Whether you have 25% or 10%, he can do a stunning revolutionary transformation if you own your half and actually submit it to refinement.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: Not if they or when they, but like, okay, do it.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_00: Fullness, anything.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not gonna hesitate and point the finger when you point something out.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: This is like a conversation between you and you and me, Lord, not an assignment for them.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_00: So, some examples of like these little bitty assignments or every summer or adjustments, habit adjustments that I got.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it was like, okay, you're gonna work on not being triggered by her requ by request for tasks to be done by your mom.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: So maybe my mom is um more, uh, she would say like more OCD tendencies.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and I'm not, I'm ADHD.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_00: So tension or uh, you know, childhood relationship was that.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_00: But then what would transpire is like, you know, maybe I'd have all the kids and I'd be unloading the car and I'd leave something somewhere and it wouldn't get it in her time frame, or I'd forget and come back, or like get caught up washing a kid and then not properly like remove all the, you know, beach chairs because I was trying to make sure no one went in the house sandy.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: So then maybe I would feel missed, like, oh, I'm actually gonna do it because I'm trying to meet your request, but in the order that I'm doing it, it like almost feeling unseen, even trying to meet it.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_00: So the one of the assignments was like not being triggered whether or not she knows you're working on it, not being defensive, just be like, okay, yeah, yeah, I'll I will unload the car versus mom.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_00: Like maybe my old pattern would have been, uh yeah, because I'm I'm doing it's so real.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: Like it feels embarrassing to admit all this, but I'd be like, I'm doing I would almost like try to not shame her, but but point out how I was doing her other request and would get to that one next so that then I'm not in the wrong.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_00: You're in the wrong for not having patience or noticing me trying to meet your unreasonable expectations, or I am still, you know, some level of all of that would be unarticulated, you know, like at least I was healthy enough to not be that explosive with my words.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: But internally, the subconscious thought.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: So, like one assignment was Lord, like, just let her let her have her request, let her, maybe she thinks you're forgotten, maybe she, you know, is asking two things at once, so it would be impossible.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_00: Do not get defensive and triggered by her request and the order or quantity or way that they're done.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_00: And that was that was it.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_00: It was just to not get whoo! And that took me all summer, and I'm still probably working on it, you know.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_00: But like, wow, nothing to do with confront your mom or tell your mom I am, or tell you it was just stop getting triggered by requests, let her have a request.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, one of them was uh working on receiving feedback without reacting or like um trashing their feedback, like the validity of their feedback based on their tone.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: So if their tone was okay, I'd listen to what they have to say.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_00: But if their tone wasn't okay, then I wouldn't listen to their feedback.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: And the Lord's like, no, actually, what if we got to the point where like tone doesn't negate?
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like you could actually grow.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like it was almost an invitation to grow, not am I right?
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: Are they right?
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_00: I think sometimes we get stuck in that, or is it toxic?
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_00: Therefore, it's like, no, actually, like, okay, there's more, there's more for me.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_00: And it was cool because I think you have to, in order to like almost take these assignments from the Lord to like grow and have your triggers diminished, you're not waiting for it to be fair or equitable, or even feeling like I'm failing if the Lord's pointing that out.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: That point part of you that feels like you get in trouble when when a dad points out something has to get worked out in order to have such a healthy relationship with suggestions, homework assignments from the Holy Spirit, habit adjustments.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_00: This is what we're working on.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: We're going, we're this is we're working on this not being as triggering.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_00: You have to hear it as a there's an invitation to more, to live more freely than bad Jenna.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_00: If you were better, this wouldn't bother you.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's gotta be a different, it has to be a rewiring of your approach to hearing the Lord's direction.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: I wouldn't I want to say discipline, but I think like most people have such a skewed perception of discipline that it's hard, but like to hear, like, oh, I'm actually the reason he's telling me this is not because I'm he's mad at me or I'm wrong or he thinks like I'm so immature.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_00: He's like, this is actually the path to thriving, and you'll be in your own body and experience.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: You will be thriving and be able to be lighter and more free if you could work on this.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, but them, what about and the Lord's like, hey girl, you and me, and you have to trust that there's freedom here, not you're bad, you're in trouble.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and one of them was you're going to practice breathing through defensiveness and not opening your mouth until they're finished.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_00: Whatever they're saying.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_00: Or you feel regulated.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like you, it's almost like until self- you can uh show up in self-control.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_00: Where before, when I was younger, there was a season where I had to learn to like, you know, maybe stick up for myself or whatever.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: And then it was like, hey, that's actually, it's almost like you've outgrown it.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like, um, you know how they have like little kid crutches, but if you're an adult, little kid crutches will like not really work or hold your weight.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_00: There's in this element of like your boundaries and triggers should shift as you mature.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_00: And what you needed in one season, you've outgrown and don't need it the same way.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_00: And that was just what I heard.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I it felt probably after a couple years, it felt clear that I was like, okay, this is the invitation to the next level of growth.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, sometimes there was an actual uh boundary adjustment.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes there were conversations with just like learning to say, hey, when this happens, could we communicate it about it this way instead?
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: Or, hey, I um when you a like you asked for help, I the story I'm telling myself is that you're mad.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't think about that.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: Is that true?
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_00: Or or you know, just uh like maybe one habit one time was just like giving them a chance, like, is this true versus not saying it or assuming and just getting better at practicing, like to have that level of communication, not a boundary of I won't do it or a walk away.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: It was just like having kind of like um being honest with some of the stories we were telling yourself.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_00: And it was, it was never none of these little annual homework assignments were never massive relational overhauls.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_00: Truly.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_00: I remember the one summer that it was like breathing through being triggered.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: I remember so many times at the kitchen sink where I would just like I'd stop listening until I could manage myself.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: It was like a dump, you know, like if someone dumped a bunch of cold water on you, it'd be this instant reaction and then it would dissipate slowly.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_00: I had to like dislike almost like be in touch until I could come back.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_00: And then now it doesn't require that.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: But it was a whole summer of I remember just like listening, and sometimes I'd have to be slightly facing somewhere else so I could because it was such a new skill set for me that I was it was like lifting five pounds felt crazy hard.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_00: And now I'm like, yay, I've grown muscle.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's not that hard.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: I can keep my eyes open, or I don't feel flooded like anymore, you know.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it was just literally one little adjustment at a time, one thing.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_00: And it was so cool to then to go from the Holy Spirit being like, you're working on this, to then be like, okay, what's my assignment this round?
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: Because um, the Holy Spirit built like trust in watching it not be you're in trouble, don't do this anymore, but there's more freedom.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_00: And like after experiencing the upgrades, it's almost like I got addicted to it.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_00: So the the narrative of you're bad, you're immature during a grow-up was so gone that I looked forward to the edits in the summer.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I'd go home.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: So it was just like, you know, a decade of going home.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_00: Another year had passed, the next time there'd be another little assignment and another one.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_00: And then 10 years later, looking back and being like, again, like how did we get here?
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, oh my gosh, you changed me.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_00: And if you had told me 10 years ago, I'm gonna do a dramatic overhaul, Jenna, changing you, I'd be like, I'm not that correct.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you should go check out the person who owns 75% of the dysfunction, right?
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_00: Lord, like, you know, like what let me know when we get 50-50, and then I'll opt into this work, do a deep work in me.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_00: But it's it's beautiful how he's not in a rush, but nor is he stuck in in me not trying, like he wants it's like the pace we can trust his pace and the quantity he gives us if we're willing to be open and hear and not be offended about taking ownership of our portion, however small.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I think that's one of the reasons we get stuck is so much is we're waiting.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_00: We're waiting for them to realize it.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: We're waiting them to stop doing the thing, we're waiting for them to become more emotionally intelligent, we're waiting for them to get tools, we're waiting for them to apologize.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: That's a big one in this.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_00: I let go.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_00: Actually, that's probably one of the most I should do a whole episode, but like have let go of my need for anyone to apologize for me to choose connection.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: There are there are implications of other things, but I do not withhold wait to reconnect until someone has cleaned up their mess or even have a soft heart, apologized, or made a repair.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_00: That level of almost like equitableness in relationships does not fall fall under unconditional.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: So I like letting go of that, it's shocking because I actually get the other day when I was thinking of, you know, this summer when I was processing, realizing how much my mom and my dad and me apologize to each other now.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like when you let go of the requirement of apology, the cult and you like give it freely, like don't withhold connection, keep a soft heart regardless if repair's been made.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's shocking how much people own.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: It takes a while.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's not this instant.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_00: We'd like an instant overhaul or conviction moment, but it shifts the ownership back to them.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_00: When I'm radically owning mine and then not shoving their portion in their face or down them, they then choose, and it's way slower than you'd want.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely slower.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_00: We're talking years, but we apologize to each other so much more.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: And then even like I'll say, Hey, thanks for the grace.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like Rosie had her birthday party a couple days ago, and we, for a few reasons, had my open presents with grandmas, and we did not talk to either grandparents for two days, which normally grandparents want to call.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: And my mom's my mom's the best about getting presents there early, making shopping the kids wish lists.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like, my kids feel so loved by my mom with gifts around, and she's so intentional.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_00: So then in the past, I used to be maybe a smidge more triggered because then I'm like, and if I don't speak to her, she's gonna be mad because she's you know, like, but she doesn't know what's going.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I could get all these reasons, and then realizing, like, actually, I feel grateful of the level of intentionality.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_00: So I would understand that she, you know, like the Lord's slightly shifting me.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_00: And then this year, uh, we didn't get to talk to her, but instead of feeling afraid of her reaction, it was like, oh, I can just own, like, apologize up front and then thank her for the grace that she's given me.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_00: And it was just this sweet, it was simple, but I was like, wow, this part of our culture and our relationship was so not there before.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_00: But letting go of the need, waiting for them to apologize before I have a soft heart or make a bid for connection has made Ownership on both ends dramatically increased, which is counterintuitive.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's so much easier to demand it, but then in ownership is so much less when we demand because we're controlling versus letting them literally manage themselves for better or for worse, whatever timeline that is.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um also we're waiting for them to get healthier, waiting for them to pick up their shovel before we're willing to pick up ours.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_00: That was the metaphor that the Lord got me with a few years when it at the beginning of all this, when I was like, Really?
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_00: You want me to work on my 25?
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_00: When there's her 75s over there, and the Lord's like, so you're not gonna pick up your shovel unless she picks up hers.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like, hmm.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_00: And then even as they said it, I was like, I hear the child likeness in that, like the like pouty shoulder across your shoulders.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_00: Anyways, I'm like, okay, help, help me.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm honest, that's where my heart's at, but I can tell as you're reflecting that back, that's not where I want to be.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_00: Help.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_00: I think sometimes we miss the this is where I'm at.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want to stay here.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_00: Help me even want to change before I think take the first step.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_00: Help my heart soften to want to know what the first step is before even like actions ever taken.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, sometimes I wonder what would happen if instead of going into the next interaction with our the family member that or the the relationship that feels inequitable with the amount of work we need to do, are they, instead of waiting to go into the next interaction, asking, are they going to be different this time?
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_00: I started asking, regardless of how they show up, how is God inviting me to show up differently?
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_00: Which is really literally what this miniature habit adjustment, miniature perspective, little homework assignments are.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, regardless of how they show up, how is God inviting me to show up differently?
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_00: And that question gave me so much freedom.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes I've now thought about it like, okay, as we grow and go, like grow and go, that's not what I meant.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_00: But nevertheless, as we go on these journeys of like maturing, again, a lot of times like in self-help culture, we see like bigger walls go up, the great wall of China, as we learn more and realize the toxicity with which they operate.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_00: It's like bigger walls or bigger space versus like, oh, actually, like as we learn and grow, like it's not just learning, it's healing.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_00: And like that's a God spot, not a them spot, but as we then heal, not just learn, as we heal, we get healthier.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_00: It's actually beautiful that we can move, we're healthy enough to move a bit closer, which is the opposite of like the self-help um concepts around this.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_00: I think sometimes we get it wrong.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_00: And the way we talk about emotional health is we learn to identify dysfunction, we learn about boundaries, we learn about what triggers us, we learn around how to recognize toxic patterns, and like all of that is important in the like phase one learning, but that's not where it ends.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_00: Getting healthy, healthier absolutely, um, I'm gonna take back absolutely getting healthier does often, it's like phase in phases.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_00: If we think of phase one, phase two, phase three, phase four.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_00: I have not thought of this out.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_00: So hold this part lightly, but maybe just phase one would be awareness, but then phase two, maybe to disrupt some of these patterns, would be a bit of distance for a season.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_00: But then maybe phase three would be what I'm like proposing of like, and then when you get healthier, being able to move closer.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_00: But I think where we miss it is it's not like you jump back all the way in or you take down all the it's just like the wall comes down at a foot or the boundary gets moved towards them a foot more, you know, like less space, just these little small assignments.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um sometimes we assume that the evidence of our health is how well we can protect ourselves from other people's dysfunction.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_00: And there have definitely been times that the Lord has said almost the opposite to me.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_00: Actually, I would say most of the time it reaches a point in my journey.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_00: Again, think about it like phase one, phase two, maybe phase three is hey girl, you're healthy enough now that you can actually handle that differently.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_00: Not you're healthier than them, so move farther away.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like when I got on Instagram, I get a little bit sad sometimes by the self-help culture on Instagram.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_00: And some of it's ish biblical, like there's some, there's some bleed over, but like I would almost say most of it without the Lord is you're healthier than them, so move farther away.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like there's so many, like almost like sad messages that are like, cut them out.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_00: You the ones you lose, you never were were honest anyway.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's just this like, ooh, it just feels sad.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, that's maybe for a season.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_00: Again, there's it can be distance for a season, but it's the thing that doesn't own you anymore.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like the true health to me is when you grow past it that it doesn't have a like a hold on you anymore.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_00: You don't react to the way it used to.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_00: So you can actually stay present.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_00: You can speak up with a soft heart, you can speak up with kindness, you can love them and still be you.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't necessarily have to be you're healthier than them, so move farther away.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_00: I think like uh the idea of health with the like emotional health with the gospel is the like unconditional love that as we change, we're actually more grounded ourselves in the Lord.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_00: Things that used to rock us don't rock us anymore.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_00: Uh 10 years ago, maybe I needed a boundary that felt like standing across the street, but then like going with that metaphor, I can stand closer now.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe it meant I took one step closer towards there, like up my driveway, and then eventually one step into the street, and then I was in the middle of the street, and then I'm like one step away from the driveway, or whatever it would be metaphorically, but this like I think again going one step at a time.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's not a pace that's going to tank you, but there is like a soft, almost even sometimes just a soft heart being willing to be moved.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_00: What more, and even seeing it as like your ownership of like there's an invite to get more free.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_00: And it's not because you don't like stay, you don't go on this journey of moving closer just because the other person has become super healthy or they're a different person, but because I'm not as easily taken out by the same things anymore.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_00: That's that was a huge this morning, this year, when I was reflecting back on my trip, I was like, wow, yes, my parents have definitely grown.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_00: I would be sad to not give them credit there, but like the things that used to take me don't tank me anymore.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_00: And that's important.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_00: And it's funny because maybe like I think the goal of health, of healing, let's say, I think the world self-help culture would say health versus like what we would say as Christians, like gospel-centered, what healing, freedom, health looks like isn't distance.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's freedom.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like that the things that they could like almost like they can make a mess, and you're not triggered in responding from their mess.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like it doesn't mean you have nothing, you know, to do or you don't address it, but it's not this triggered uh response to their same patterns.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_00: Distance can absolutely be a tool, like I said, in a f in a phase to get us there.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_00: But distance often is temporary and isn't itself necessarily the measure of how healthy we've become.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_00: So a lot of times I feel like healing actually gives us the freedom to move closer.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I by that, I think it's because my next point is healing changes your participation in the pattern.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_00: So not just it doesn't affect me, I show up different in it.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_00: So you might have a similar gruff tone about the tasks that you would like me to do and whether in the order and timeline I want to do them in, but then I show up different of my portion of the pattern.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_00: I always think of it, I think I told you guys once before.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_00: And this is this is actually a large, if you've heard, uh I think I have an ad running currently.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna about to, or the interest list for my wives, habit for wives course, which is called your half of the marriage, um, is open.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're interested in this, it's going through, it's funny because this is the same concept the Lord walked me through with Aaron, but this is a little more relevant in this time when I'm looking back to my mom.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_00: But the habits of that course are actually a lot of these principles of like the some of the homework assignments the Lord gave me to work on my half of the marriage that absolutely changed like the culture in our in our marriage because it changed my part of the pattern.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_00: One of the things that I've really started to recognize healing in myself is that my triggers diminish.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't mean like unhealthy behavior.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_00: I suddenly quantify as healthy, like that doesn't know that's not what I mean.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_00: But it does, and it doesn't also mean that I stopped noticing it or nothing ever bothers me.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_00: But I remember this one pattern, I won't, I won't label it happened when I was home and it played out the same way.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I just thought, and I just turned my like did the appropriate thing.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't lose any energy, even though they're pre- and I was like, and then we left and they were fine, and I was fine, and I was like, Freedom.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, this, I had no idea.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like I couldn't have gotten there a few years ago.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_00: Again, like almost thinking of it like steps in health is movement, not black or white.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_00: Like I needed all the distance, now I have no distance, now I have I should be whole enough to go to full 100% again.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like this stair-step gradual thing, which I think that's the kindness and stunningness of the Lord is He's in a journey with all of us.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna be continued to be sanctified for the rest of our lives.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_00: I think we have to change our perspective and buckle up, like there's always gonna be something versus like surprised.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_00: I will go home now every year, every visit, expecting there will always be more for me to work on because I'm in a sanctification journey.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_00: That's my whole life.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_00: Until I get to a eternity, there's always gonna be notes from the Lord.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_00: And it's not because I'm failing and he's mad, but because he wants more freedom and wholeness for me.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, okay.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_00: Going back to the the, they can still do the same thing and it doesn't bother me the same way.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um what I think about it more is over time their behavior doesn't have the same hook in me.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_00: So they can do the same thing they used to, and I don't one of the main things is I don't take it as personally.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_00: I don't immediately become 17 again.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_00: I don't have to defend myself, I don't have to prove myself, I don't have to shut down, I don't have to punish, I don't have to over-explain, I don't have to get mad, I don't have to get stuck like in the same my half of the relational dance.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_00: And the pattern, it's like almost like the pattern will still knock on the door, but I don't have to participate in it anymore.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_00: And even now it's like, oh, was that a knock?
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah, well, I didn't even notice.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_00: Where before maybe I was like, should I answer?
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_00: Should I not?
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_00: Don't answer, Jenna.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, my hand's on the doorknob, you know, now it's like, oh, I think that was a knock.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_00: Love that.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_00: I love that I just noticed that.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_00: Let's keep let's keep doing what we're doing.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's the beautiful thing about healing is sometimes we think we'll know we're healed when they stop doing that thing, or that's the the pattern disappears from our relationship.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_00: But what if one of the ways we recognize our own healing is that they can do the same thing and we are increasingly more free to respond differently.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_00: Not because we now tolerate dysfunction, not because we're not being control, you know, like it doesn't register on us, but but it's now actually I almost going back to the early health would be like, oh, I finally I see what's happening here.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_00: That's an important stage, and maybe that's when you need a little bit of distance, but maturing in health actually looks like, okay, now that I see the pattern, does it still get to control me?
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_00: How do I want to show differ up differently in the pattern?
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_00: Healing is become becoming free enough that you don't have to keep participating in it.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_00: And then that kind of dovetails into one of the things that really helps me is stop taking it personally when I see the pattern, even in phase one or awareness, I'm no longer taking their behavior as personal.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's so simple, but this is huge for me.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I have to, anytime I encounter like a new teacher or someone I'm volunteering with, it's like new people all the time.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_00: I'll be like, oh, this is a thing.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_00: And instead of thinking like judging them or blaming them when I encounter that thing, I'm not surprised by it or offended or rocked by it, because that is the thing.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I have my own humanity, I have my own patterns that splash people that people probably have as well.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_00: So there's no superiority in it, but taking the personal sting out of it means that it doesn't like, it doesn't trigger.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, oh, that thing's happening versus like I just got splashed by the thing.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, instead of me thinking like she's doing this to me, thinking more, why does like, or even she's doing this to me, why does she always do this to me?
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_00: There she goes again.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_00: Now I think like, oh, the mechanisms almost like hit.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like the cuckoo clocks happening, like when, oh, it's it must be 12 o'clock versus oh my gosh, that cuckoo is after me.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_00: Every time I get into a rhythm, it seems like it flares.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know, you like think if you actually didn't clue into the the cuckoo clocks.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's what they're called, right?
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_00: When they come out, yeah, at the top of the hour.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_00: Instead, if you were to think it was personal, like every time you get a rhythm, you're like, what is happening?
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_00: Why does that keep happening?
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_00: Versus like, oh, that happens every every top of the hour.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_00: This is not a me thing, this is a cuckoo clock thing.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_00: So this is a mechanism versus this is personal.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and sometimes I think that like maybe our own personal particular flavor can react with their pattern, like for instance, because I'm their daughter, or we're family, or because of our history.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_00: But the idea also being like, this is not a personal attack specifically for me.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_00: That revelation of people's toxicity or dysfunction or trigger, whatever, is huge.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_00: If you could assume that on everybody and be like, this isn't a me thing, and not in a I don't have any ownership or I can't grow because that's the whole concept of this uh podcast, but like this isn't personal.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think this is the way that that person responds to stress.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_00: This is the way that they respond when they're afraid.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_00: Their efforts to make something connecting aren't gonna work out.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_00: This is how the person shows up when they're overwhelmed.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_00: And once I started making it so stopped making it so personal, it it takes the offense out of it.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's like your feet don't get knocked out from you.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like, oh, that's happening versus like, whoa, I'm upended by it.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then I didn't have to defend myself.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_00: And it helped, it just really helped me stop participating when I was like, that's the mechanism of the cuckoo clock.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_00: This is not, this is not a Jenna thing.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_00: This cuckoo clock does not have a vengeance against me.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_00: This is just what it does at 12 o'clock, one o'clock, two o'clock.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the really simplest ways in the like like a tangible habit when I was trying to become work on not being triggered by the same patterns, like even as I'm healing, was to go from complaint to compassion.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_00: It's the simplest.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like sometimes the Lord just gives me slogans for, and this is what you know, look for instance, this was one of the homework assignments I had one year when I was going home.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_00: So instead of complaining about their pattern, which what I mean would mean like the pain I experienced from their behavior, getting like a 50 cents worth of compassion, which you're gonna laugh.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_00: Why do you why does Jenna say 50 cents worth of compassion?
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_00: And because it doesn't mean I'm flooded with, I get it, I feel that's overwhelming too.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's more of like she feels fear.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_00: When she feels fear, she gets gruff.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, where do I feel fear?
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_00: How does Jenna show up when Jenna feels fear?
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, I freeze, and I actually become less communicative.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, what's the cost of that?
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, it usually means people around me don't get information they need, and they're surprised that I volunteered Erin to work for XYZ because I felt frozen and didn't tell him.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, so you have a pattern around fear that also costs people.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't look the same, but okay, can you relate?
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_00: So that's what I would say 50 cents of compassion to go from complaint to compassion.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's the most simple when I'm experiencing one of one of the things, instead of thinking, here they go again, I can't believe they said that.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_00: I literally think, I wonder why they might be doing that.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_00: I wonder what emotion, that's kind of one of the easiest for me, might they be feeling.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_00: And then I I never share this with them.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_00: I think what I've watched sometimes is people diagnose other people in this and then share it with them.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_00: I I don't see that to be particularly helpful most of the time.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_00: You might have experienced a couple rogue things where no, it unlocked it, and they're like, you're right, I am afraid.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_00: I just use this to help me understand what it would be like to be in their shoes.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_00: So again, that would be the 50 cents worth of compassion.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's not like you poor friend, you're you know, mom, of course you're being a little gruffer with your instructions.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_00: You're flooded with fear.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so sorry.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_00: That would be like$20 worth of compassion.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_00: I'm saying like 50 cents of like, I'm not my best self either when I have when I have fear happening and they're I'm overstimulated.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I know what that feels like.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_00: Not enjoying it.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna say that internally.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_00: But I also know what it's like to be overwhelmed and overstimulated, have a bit of fear happening.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so just to go from complaint to compassion, the the what are they feeling?
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_00: What do I what do I feel like when I'm like that?
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_00: Do I know what it feels like?
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's like I almost feel like the 50 cents worth of compassion would be like walking a mile in their shoes, like um, not even a mile, let's say 10 steps in their shoes.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, okay, and it just makes it less personal, make it humanizes me instead of them being the villain.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, I know what that feels like.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_00: So that's just the simplest way for me to go from just complaint, which I would say that year when I was working on this with the Lord, it was like complaint just meant being hyper aware of the pain or the cost of being in a relationship with them to, I wonder why this behavior could be happening.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_00: Do I know, do I know what it's like to have an unhelpful behavior when that emotion's flaring?
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_00: What's mine?
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, okay, you're not a terrible human.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_00: You're experiencing fear.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_00: It just made it so like minimized some of the the patterns that felt like overwhelming.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_00: So for you, I'd love for you to start thinking of like to go from complaint to compassion when there's a trigger or area that you feel like do they feel powerless?
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_00: Do they feel overwhelmed?
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_00: Do they feel rejected?
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like, do I know what it feels like?
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I feel fear sometimes.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_00: This is how I show up in fear.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_00: I might not behave the same way, but I get it.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it just feels really helpful for me to move out of just awareness that they're pain to compassion or like walk a mile in their shoes, if you will.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_00: The reality is that if you are listening to this podcast, you are someone who falls into the category of liking growth and wanting to position and point yourself in that direction, wanting to not just grow though.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_00: I think I think that's the beautiful part of again some of the difference between being growth-minded in just a totally secular way, and then sanctification, which is growth, but with Jesus.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_00: So we're not just continuing with our coping mechanisms or what's the word, like tolerating behavior.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_00: We actually as we experience Jesus' love and revelations of things that were functioning, you know, like as we lean into, like I was saying, his um direction and correction and like all those little like what's the next habit?
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_00: What's the next step?
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_00: We actually get to be transformed and like heal from those pain points versus cope with um in ourselves and others.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's the stunning part.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's transformative, it's not just tolerating, you know.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_00: But one of the things I've noticed is sometimes those of us who love learning, we can get really good.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes I call it the empowered victim or enlightened.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know, I've kind of oscillate where the more we know, the easier we are get it it gets for us to point out other people's dysfunction or flaws.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I had this time, I was, I'm just gonna be honest, I was on a walk with the Lord and I was talking about how Aaron's shortcomings were hindering, like hurting me, but then also hindering himself.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_00: Cause I think a lot of times, like when you get to not even just like pain or offense, like it gets tender, like, oh, I see how this is, yes, it's impacting me, but the same weakness is also impacting him.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_00: And so therefore, as I'm talking to the Lord about it, I'm not just complaining, I'm like, oh yeah, you know, like Manny's really gotta get this.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_00: This is holding him back.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's hurting us, but it's also holding him back.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_00: And man, I'll never forget it was a part of the trail system that's near my house.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I felt like the Lord so clearly was like, okay, at the end of your life, relatively on some level, you and I are gonna meet and we're gonna have some level of a recap of your life.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_00: Again, theologically, not getting really deep into that part of it.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_00: Don't camp there.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_00: But he was like, when we do that, when we when we're having that conversation, when you're not you are face-to-face, like for the first time, because now you're you know, on that side of eternity with me, you're not in your human body anymore.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_00: And do you think I'm going to ask you for the notes on how Aaron could have grown more or loved better?
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like, do you think that's gonna be part of the conversation where I'm like, okay, or even like I think it was like thinking about how he my reaction towards him again, like this would fall into the category of my trigger towards his weakness or something like that.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_00: And it was like, do you think he's gonna, I'm gonna, you're gonna explain, well, I couldn't do that because Aaron had this weakness that triggered me.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_00: So, like, almost like explain my own, you know, if Aaron had changed, I I would have, I would have shown up better, God, you know.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_00: So I was like, none of that is gonna be our in our conversation.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like when we meet him face to face, he's only like it's only gonna be about our heart posture, our attitude, the the freedom that we experienced in our ability to grow in love, like unconditional love, unwarranted love, unmerited, not based on the like that wasn't limited by our spouses or our parents or our siblings or our neighbors dysfunction, you know, and even just watching Jesus in relationship with the disciples.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I would I'm not going to say he was triggered.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_00: I would not, I would not say that.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_00: But the different incidences where he's, you know, get behind me, Satan, or man, when are you gonna get guys gonna get this?
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like just the sadness of them not understanding what he was coming to do and the kingdom he was bringing, you know.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_00: Uh he didn't actually pull away from dysfunctional people, from quote maybe even, I'm sure if I was a disciple, from my toxicity, like he didn't distance himself.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_00: He he didn't change what he was doing because they didn't get it or made a more, I don't know, palatable version of his mission, but he didn't let their dysfunction diminish how he showed up in love or relationship from them.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_00: And again, when people talk to about boundaries, again, I'm I'm pro-appropriate boundaries, but I think we get stuck in not diminishing them as we heal and grow and not need again, going like we need them less as we those parts of us aren't triggered as much.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_00: So that would be my hope is that it's not have no boundaries and you know, let toxic people just make a mess.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_00: But then it's not as we grow in love that we actually could systematically partner with the Holy Spirit, have a tender, soft heart where we're actually pointed towards inching closer to them as we're growing, and not just I'm healing.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_00: I think sometimes people will say, like, I'm healing are in process, but like it's so for my own journey, and then when I do habit lab, the 10-week course, there's a relational week, and we usually have like people pick one literally offensively small habit, and I have so many, like I feel teary, stunning testimonies.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_00: I'm thinking of one person, student, former student from a couple years ago who was estranged from the dad, and the first very offensively small when she partnered with the Holy Spirit, like what's my step towards them?
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what's my step closer?
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_00: What does it look like to what you're saying there's a grace for?
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_00: And it was just to pray that, pray for them, not even reach out.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_00: And then slowly it was like a really slow process.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_00: Eventually, she actually reached out to her dad, and then I think I've told the testimony where they went.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_00: She went and visited years later.
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_00: So again, I think it's like we're not saying jump into the deep end of the pool, but the question is with Holy Spirit, like, are you just soft and willing to be asked the question seasonally?
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what's the next step?
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_00: Is there another inch I could step towards a deeper depth of the pool?
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_00: Or what is it that you have for me?
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_00: Because even in this season with my parents, the little assignments I had every summer, they were so nuanced and they were not things I would have thought of.
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_00: And it was not, again, these overhauls.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_00: And that's um even with my marriage, like I've said, the duplication of watching, like looking back and be like, wow, my you know, relationship with my mom's completely different, and our marriage is completely different.
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_00: And uh it's so offensive and humbling, not offensive, but it's humbling when I think, oh yeah, Lord, it's you changed me, not I got better or grew better.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like you dealt with my half because I am responsible for how I learn and show up and learn to love.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_00: So getting back to that thing at the end of your life.
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_00: Sorry guys, I don't mean to be a little sporadic here.
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_00: I have notes, believe it or not, even though I'm a little jumpy.
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_00: I have a lot of notes, but I'm just kind of I'm rifting off of them occasionally.
• 49:45
  SPEAKER_00: I should stick to them a little bit more.
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_00: But that little encounter I had with the Lord when I was like thinking of Aaron hindering, you know, like the things he could grow in and what he needs to, and even coming from a softer spot of, but it's hindering him too.
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_00: And the Lord being like, you're not gonna give an account for how Aaron learned to love or why his weaknesses hindered your ability to love.
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like, it is gonna be an only me and you conversation about how did you learn to love and grow in your ability to love in your lifetime?
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_00: Not once, not the and then even the scriptures about like it's easy to love the easy people.
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_00: That's why I think like this is usually our assignment.
• 50:19
  SPEAKER_00: The ones that trigger us, like, are we slowly, appropriately, but actively having soft hearts and asking the Holy Spirit, like, what's what's the next thing you want to do?
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_00: Because I want to grow in loving the hard people too.
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like, that's an assignment.
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so the little succinct version of that when I was on that little like encounter with the Lord.
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_00: Uh sometimes I call him Holy Spirit truth slaps.
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_00: He was like, Don't you think so?
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_00: If you're not gonna give an account to how Aaron learned to love or how your mom should have learned to love more, whatever, wouldn't your time be better spent living your life, becoming a student of love than becoming a critic of everybody else's ability to love?
• 50:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I think those closest to us, we often get caught up in the criticisms of their abilities or inabilities to love well, instead of just giving 110% of our energy and our ownership for how we can grow and our ability to love well, regardless of how they're showing up.
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_00: So if you would want some of this mindset, if you're like, I can see that in marriage, come join the interest list for my it's called your half of the marriage.
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's gonna start late September.
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I it does not, if your marriage is on fire, this probably like this is not for you don't have to join the class if your marriage is on fire.
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_00: It actually would be applicable to, I think of sometimes as like a chiropractic adjustment for marriage as well.
• 51:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it's gonna be tangible, practical steps that the Holy Spirit in the years where he was like giving me these, okay, this is the next thing for your marriage, you know, kind of like I said with my mom.
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's taking those.
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I have just felt like a grace to be like, okay, it's time to actually sit down and give them away to other women in a class format.
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_00: So if that sounds interesting to you, go ahead and sign up for the interest list.
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna, it's gonna start late September, but I wait often when it's a smaller class, six weeks, um, to see on the interest list, I'll email everybody and try to pick a time that works best for everybody.
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_00: So it's not a lack of planning, it's more of I have the luxury of making it work around the general availability of those on the interest list.
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_00: So join that list and I'd love to hear have you.
• 52:28
  SPEAKER_00: I pray that you would partner with the Holy Spirit and whether it's your marriage, your parent relationship, a sibling relationship, a coworker, a boss, a leader, I pray that you would just be tender before the Lord and ask, like, okay, Holy Spirit, as I'm healing, what's one practical step that you want me to take towards my trigger diminishing, practicing almost like exposure therapy, is how I think of it.
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what's the practical thing you want me to do habit-wise, to practice growing in my ability to love well and change my half of the pattern, regardless of their half.
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_00: Hey men, I hope you have such a great week, everybody.