Latest / Talking About Birds: A St. Louis Cardinals Podcast / Jordan Walker is the Best Player in Baseball Forever Guaranteed

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Jordan Walker is the Best Player in Baseball Forever Guaranteed · Talking About Birds: A St. Louis Cardinals Podcast

• 216 === ​[00:00:00] [00:00:05] Nate: Hello everybody, and welcome back to talking about Birds. The only Cardinal podcast that like, Aramark food is never as good as you want it to be. name is Nate Heininger, and I am joined by my cohost Ben Samka. [00:00:17] ben: What is up a DH. ​ [00:00:37] Nate: If you have an idea for the opening bit, text or leave us a voicemail at 8 4 8 48 birds, or consider joining the Patreon and becoming a member of the Bird Score, where you can submit, uh, opening bits directly to us like Chaz did with this one. Chaz frequent contributor, obviously a reference to last week's, uh, [00:01:00] pizza donut conversation and your overall spiel against Aramark. has been a week since, uh, your, your, your sort of, your, say on the ground reporting, uh, that you did around the, uh, the pizza donut. Um, between then and now, how many pizza donuts have you consumed? [00:01:20] ben: I've been to a baseball game since we last chatted. Nathan, I have a huge hole in my heart right now, uh, from the pizza donut and then also like a, a metaphorical hole. [00:01:30] Nate: I think you have a clog in your heart now from the pizza donut. Maybe not a hole. [00:01:36] ben: You are what you eat, right? I ate a donut. Now I have a hole in my heart, [00:01:40] Nate: Yeah, that makes sense. [00:01:41] ben: if I eat a donut hole, it'll come back. [00:01:44] Nate: I don't think they should be called donut holes. [00:01:47] ben: Say more about that. [00:01:48] Nate: I really feel like that's the point. But when you buy a little, little guy, a little circle called a, and they're called donut holes, [00:01:57] ben: Yeah. You know, you know how they [00:02:00] make them, right? Yeah. [00:02:01] Nate: they punch out the middle of a donut, [00:02:04] ben: What? [00:02:04] Nate: it up. [00:02:06] ben: Yeah. [00:02:06] Nate: Oh, it's the donut hole. I don't think you should be able to buy a, I don't think you can, can you? This is all gonna sound horrible. Can you acquire a hole? You know, [00:02:19] ben: Um, [00:02:20] Nate: negative space. [00:02:22] ben: yeah, I, well, obviously you can make a hole. [00:02:25] Nate: Yeah. [00:02:26] ben: Um, I bought a, actually, I inspired by you. I bought a, a cat door. Um, so I bought a hole to put into a door in my house so the cats can, uh, come and go as they please. [00:02:41] Nate: Is it kitty shaped like mine? [00:02:43] ben: Um, no, it's actually, it's, it's got like a little handle on it and a window. It looks like a little front door to a house. You can even lock it if you need, which, why? Why would you ever need to lock a cat door? But [00:02:55] Nate: own, uh, Amazon Ring doorbell on the front of it? [00:02:58] ben: no, it doesn't. But [00:03:00] maybe I'll install them one. I wanna watch, watch those poops, you know, make sure everyone's healthy. [00:03:05] Nate: All right. Well, you've convinced me and frankly it was a stupid point to bring up in the first place, but you can buy a hole, uh, ham bone Before we get into our serious content, um, I wanna let everyone know this weekend is the Cardinals 5K and I will be participating in it. So maybe I'll see some of you out there. If you're out there, you know, would be cool to say hello. I'll, I'll be, uh, you know, sweating and looking gross, so come and say hi. It's a fun activity. Do it every year. Are you doing the, uh, the Rockies 5K this year? [00:03:37] ben: Signed up for the Rockies 5K this year. Um, [00:03:41] Nate: You know, show up this time. [00:03:42] ben: that was once I did it last year, my friend. Um, but, uh, that, that is the plan. I'm out, I'm running a lot right now. I got a, I got a Halfie coming up here soon. Um, I'm, I'm, I'm in a running mode right now, so yeah, I'm, I'm excited for the, the Rockies and uh, to [00:04:00] hang out with Dinger and, uh, drink an ice cold KZ banquet at about 9:00 AM You know, nothing, nothing beats it. [00:04:07] Nate: Yeah, I'm, I'm looking forward to it this weekend as well. Of course, it was last year where Fred Bird, uh, roasted Brandon in front of hundreds of, uh, other Cardinal fans, which was, um, really a highlight of, um, I think my life, [00:04:23] ben: Wow. [00:04:24] Nate: uh, Brandon being roasted by RT Fred Bird was great. [00:04:26] ben: Yeah. [00:04:27] Nate: Um, so I, I don't think I'll ever come back from that, but, uh, it's a good, it's a good event and, uh, it's fun to walk around on the field and pretend like you're Robin Dingers and things like that. [00:04:36] ben: Yeah, that, um, that's fun. We like that, don't we? [00:04:40] Nate: Wow. Speaking of fun, you have a big trip coming up. Uh, the, the millennial Mecca occurring once again, ham bone. Have you all your looks in order for this weekend's, Coachella. [00:04:54] ben: Uh, yeah. I guess I have all my looks in order. Um, you know, I, I, I'm an [00:05:00] old. Uh, a festival goer. So that means I am wearing running shoes and athletic clothing and lots of sunscreen. Um, but yeah, I'm, I'm very excited. We are leaving tonight. [00:05:14] Nate: Wow. is there a particular set that you are excited to see? [00:05:21] ben: Many sets, uh, the Strokes, um, um, I've never seen The Strokes. They've been one of my favorite bands since I was like in grade school. [00:05:28] Nate: I knew you had, I thought you saw them. You've never seen them [00:05:31] ben: I, I've been lucky enough to see damn near every band that I, I love. Um, and for whatever reason, the Strokes have avoided me for 20 plus years. Um, so they are, they are playing, um, which I'm very excited about. Uh, nine Inch Nails, another band I've never seen, um, that I'm very excited to see. Um, David Byrne and Divo. I've been lucky enough to see them, but I'll see them a a hundred times. [00:06:00] Um. Yeah, there's, uh, you know, uh, my, uh, my little sister's going this year, so we're gonna go definitely see the, uh, Justin Bieber set, which, uh, you know, I can't wait to, [00:06:09] Nate: aimed at little sisters around the globe. [00:06:11] ben: yeah, I'll be, be the old man there, [00:06:13] Nate: Uhhuh. [00:06:13] ben: um, which will be great. Geese is a band that I've been listening to quite a bit. Um, really excited to see Geese. Um, do you remember The Rapture, Nate? I'm, I, I've never seen The Rapture love their records back, like late high school, early college. Um, really excited to see them. Um, yeah, there's, there's a bunch of music, um, Deon, uh, the xx. Um, there's, uh, oh, Interpol, another band that I love that I've never seen before. [00:06:41] Nate: seen Interpol? [00:06:42] ben: Yeah. Um, yeah. Uh, St. Louis' Own Sexy Red is going to be there. [00:06:47] Nate: God, you gotta make that sack. [00:06:50] ben: Um, black Flag, uh, which is an old punk band that I, I, he's 71. I was just reading the other day, so probably the last time to see Black Flag, if you ever [00:07:00] wanna see Black Flag. Um, yeah, there's [00:07:02] Nate: it Henry Rollins? Right. He's gonna have a heart attack on stage [00:07:05] ben: no, Henry Rollins is Fugazi, I thought, or, oh wait, am I getting that wrong? But he, he is not the black flag guy. I know that. And now I'm just looking it up. [00:07:17] Nate: wrong. I think that I'm right on this one [00:07:19] ben: Oh, I'm a hundred percent right on this. Um, I was just reading an article about him. Oh wait, [00:07:27] Nate: doing a, a little slow on the Google behind me, which says was a front man for black flag from 1981 to 1986, [00:07:35] ben: well then who's the lead singer now? [00:07:37] Nate: I don't, I think they've had other people, obviously, [00:07:43] ben: That's so funny. I was just reading a whole article about how this guy is 71 and he's still doing, is he? Uh, yeah. It doesn't matter. Not, uh, who cares? [00:07:50] Nate: Okay. [00:07:51] ben: Not, not what we need to talk about on this podcast, but I am confused. [00:07:55] Nate: Um, which is your natural state, so I'm sure you're feeling quite comfortable right now. [00:08:00] Um, I [00:08:00] ben: Some would say easily confused. [00:08:03] Nate: he's harmed himself in his confusion. Um, I'm excited for you to see the strokes. I, uh, also a band has been very, very important to me. Fortunate enough, I've saw them on both their, is this IT and Room On Fire tours back in the day, but I've not seen them live in like 15 years [00:08:23] ben: It's the guitarist is the, uh, Greg Zi. Uh, Greg Giin is the only original member, so maybe I don't care about this. I, I was, uh, the article that I was reading, I thought, uh, yeah. Anyways, um, excited to see the Strokes for sure. [00:08:38] Nate: yeah. They're, I mean, they're clearly one of those zombie bands that is like continuing to just go, even though it's, it's almost essentially a whole new band at this point. Which [00:08:48] ben: I think [00:08:48] Nate: a little bit about on this show. I think it's foreigner is just a hundred percent replaced at this point, and they're just touring around as foreigner, which, makes a band at this point, you know, [00:08:58] ben: I respect [00:09:00] the hustle and the thirst for money. [00:09:03] Nate: we all respect that hand. Bone is [00:09:07] ben: Yeah, [00:09:07] Nate: way. Of course. [00:09:08] ben: yeah, yeah. Uh, but yeah, very excited, uh, you know, kind of go out, turn into a little monster in the desert for a handful of days and shorten my lifespan, you know, it's a good time. [00:09:19] Nate: Wow. Well, we'll look forward to, uh, hearing more about it next week. Um, and yeah, how your fun in the sun went. [00:09:28] ben: Wow. [00:09:29] Nate: look out for all the celebrities, [00:09:31] ben: Um. [00:09:33] Nate: any hot celebs you're hoping to peak, peak at while you're there. [00:09:36] ben: Oh, I love, uh, who's my favorite celeb. Um, I saw Justin Trudeau was there last weekend. [00:09:44] Nate: also my favorite celeb, [00:09:46] ben: I'm hoping he's there next weekend. [00:09:49] Nate: and his current girl, his girlfriend, who's currently not under any problematic situations at all. Katy Perry. He's looking good. [00:09:57] ben: Yeah. [00:09:58] Nate: tweeting about, [00:10:00] um, the Hungry Elections [00:10:02] ben: Yu [00:10:02] Nate: Coachella. [00:10:03] ben: uh, dog, the bounty hunter might be there. Um, [00:10:07] Nate: yeah. [00:10:07] ben: of my favorite celebs, [00:10:08] Nate: Uhhuh. [00:10:09] ben: uh, prince Harry, which is the, which is the prince that lives in the United States. [00:10:16] Nate: Uh, I think it's Harry. [00:10:17] ben: I'm a huge Royals guy, so [00:10:19] Nate: I would just assume you were hoping for Prince Andrew. [00:10:22] ben: that's, that's, I, I think he's been d-printed, my friend. [00:10:26] Nate: Yeah, but is it De Prince? [00:10:28] ben: That's what I'm calling it. [00:10:30] Nate: Okay. that makes him probably easier to hang out with [00:10:34] ben: That's, [00:10:35] Nate: that you want to do. I'm saying I. [00:10:36] ben: that is what I want to do. Me and him will both not sweat in the desert. [00:10:40] Nate: Uh, all right. Should we talk about the Cardinals? [00:10:45] ben: else? [00:10:49] Nate: Uh, well, how can we start with anything? But what we've started basically every episode since the season has started with, which is a continued conversation [00:11:00] of the dominance that is Jordan Walker. Um, I mean, you, you, I don't even know what to say at this point. What, how, what do we talk about? He's leading the league in home runs. [00:11:13] ben: Yep. [00:11:14] Nate: playing stellar defense. He's running, um, he's, he's just doing everything at what we thought was peak Jordan Walker that maybe we would someday see in his late twenties or something like that. Uh, he has suddenly flipped a switch and is looking like player in baseball. Um. what, what are you feeling about this, Brandon? Or Brandon? Weird. Uh, I got a hot take on him from Brandon. I'm gonna bring up, but Ben, what are you feeling about? [00:11:46] ben: He is the best player in baseball right now. He is the leading position players in F four. He is leading everyone in home runs. Uh, his babi, his exit velocity, his launch angle, everything [00:12:00] stat. Casty is backing up everything that he is doing. Uh, he has somehow lowered his walk rate, or, sorry, raised his walk rate, lowered his strikeout, and by far increased his power out outage all at the same time. Now, you know, it, it should be said that we, we talked about. At this a couple of weeks ago, any baseball player can do anything over 60, played appearances and, and Jordan Walker is at 70 right now. Um. So, you know, it is what it is. I think I said last week, he's going to hit 30 home runs, uh, over this past, since we last chatted. He really took a bite outta that apple. That's gonna be a lot easier now that he's sitting at eight with essentially, uh, nine-tenths of season, uh, remaining. You know, it's, there's, there's a lot of baseball to be played. Um, I, I think we just gotta take it for what it is. It's a massive improvement. Obviously the league is going to adjust to him. Um, but I do think that he has the inherent traits, uh, which is elite bat speed, elite [00:13:00] exit velocity. And the fact that he is Fitch fix the launch angle issue, I think he's just going to run into a good number of home runs. We've seen his ability to take it the other way. I think that's going to help his batting average. I do not think that he's going to be the best player in baseball all season. I don't think he's gonna carry a 3 28 average all season. Um, I think he'll have some weeks of a lot of strikeouts and stuff like that. But I do think that we are seeing real changes that are sticky types of changes. Um, not to mention you, as you said, the the base running and the, uh, defensive work, which he just looks like a completely different player. Um, you know, there's a history of MLB players with long levers like Jordan Walker taking a little bit longer, two coming to their own. It, it really feels like, I'm not saying he is Randy Johnson or Aaron Judge, um, but guys who are six five plus there, there is a, a hist, like I said, a history of those guys taking a little longer to develop and then they figure it out. I think there's a lot [00:14:00] of things going on. I think he's out of his head. I've noticed a couple of players in post-game interviews talking about how like it's nice that everybody's the same age and they're all pulling for each other and they're playing the same way. I think there's some clubhouse stuff going on. I think that he's been more receptive to coaching. I mean, I think there's, there's like so many things that could have changed and seem like they have changed and it seems like they're all kind of like convalescing around this improved player. One other thing I want to say as, as I'm ranting right now is that we talked about how he was struggling against right-handed pitchers, not struggling, but it was an 88 WRC plus. He is more than doubled that since last time we chatted, [00:14:40] Nate: It's amazing what, uh, one week of plate appearances can do. One, we're still in small sample size territory. [00:14:46] ben: right? [00:14:47] Nate: from old 88 W or c plus, which is fine in its own right, depending on the type of player player. But yeah, I'll do one 60 whatever in seven games or six games. [00:14:56] ben: Yeah. [00:14:57] Nate: uh, the thing that continues to stand out to me [00:15:00] is that, um. A lot of these home runs have come off of, uh, swings and connections that just don't look like the best swing or the best, uh, they don't look like barreled in the way you would think a 440 foot home run would have to be. They don't look like the, uh, the, where the pitch landed and where he swung at, it would go that far and they just continue to leave the ballpark 'cause he's so damn strong and swings so hard. I mean, some of these inside fastballs he is turning on, he's been getting 'em up and away and, and hitting it 440 feet. I mean, it's like if he's making contact, which he's doing at an, an incredible rate right now, it's just going very, very far. Um, and I think that bodes well to the longevity of it because it proves. He doesn't have to have a perfect swing, a perfect connection, like the perfect mechanics to, uh, to do [00:16:00] damage. He just really needs to connect on, uh, in a, in a better way than he had been before. Um, you know, we, we've mentioned it several times. We had the conversation with Ben Clemons and attack angle. He just needed to work on that a little bit and make contact with the ball at a better position than he had before. And otherwise, the let the strength and the athletic ability do the rest, and it's exactly what we're seeing. Uh, it's, it's a lot of fun. Um, you mentioned the, um, the clubhouse stuff. So a friend of the show, Brandon called in and left a, a voicemail talking about this in an interview, uh, that Brant Brown on the voicemail, Brandon called him Brandon Brown, which I think is funny. Uh, just to [00:16:41] ben: Just forcing that name into the episode today, aren't we? [00:16:44] Nate: just inserting your own name into someone else's name, to be fair, and Brandon very, very close, [00:16:49] ben: I heard his name was Ben Brown. [00:16:51] Nate: Uh, yeah, that's what I'm saying. I'm gonna start being like, so anyway, Nate Walker had a pretty incredible, uh, sorry. [00:16:59] ben: say it enough, [00:17:00] people are just gonna start thinking you're him. [00:17:01] Nate: exactly. So, uh, something that Brat Brown has talked about and that, that we've seen reflected in the players too, is this real desire to let the team be themselves, um, to, to approach the way they want to approach, to feel comfortable in the box, and to stop overthinking everything. And I think Jordan Walker, and that's, you know, what they're talking about. So not saying this is like our own idea, but that is also reflected by exactly what Jordan Walker keeps saying in his own interviews. I'm just out here, I'm, I'm stopped thinking about the mechanics. I've stopped thinking about all of the little tweaks, everyone, and I'm just going up there and swinging. And it's obviously working. Um, so, you know, does that approach work for everyone? No. We know there are some guys who, uh, truly like mechanics are their whole thing and they're all about perfect execution [00:18:00] and, and whatnot. But it's seems pretty clear at this point based off of this increasingly large sample size, um, that it probably the last two years was everybody over diagnosing Jordan Walker. maybe if after his first season when he had a one 16 WRC plus, if they had just said, keep going man, like you're figuring it out, let's not worry about it. Instead of we gotta increase that launch angle, we gotta increase that attack angle. We've gotta do this. You've gotta drop your hips, you gotta move your wrist, you gotta, you know, X, Y, Z. Um, if they had just said, Hey, you're 20, you're in the big leagues, we're gonna let you fly. Um, maybe we would've been in a different position. Um, [00:18:41] ben: I feel like we said as much at the time we were like, if this kid can hit, he, he had I think like a, what is a one 15 or 1 1 18, something like that. WRC plus in his first season, like as a 20-year-old. That's great. Just take that We have, there's no, no notes. It was a a one 16 [00:19:00] WR plus. Let 'em figure it out. And for most guys. Launch comes, uh, bombs come, he still hits 16 homers that year. Um, and looked pretty good all around. Um, I agree with that. I also think like, uh, something that at least we haven't talked about, I'm sure it's been talked about on Cardinal's internet is the Casey Chen with, um, edition to as the assistant hitting coach this year, who's somebody who's worked with Jordan Walker in the past. Um, and I do think it, it is what you're talking about with Brat Brown, Ben Brown, um, kind of signaling to the club being to be yourself, be your guy. There's also this hitting coach that, uh, Jordan Walker had worked with and the minors that at least gave him a level of feeling comfortable, who is now with the big League Club and is working with Walker on a daily basis. And, and they are vibing and Walker is happy. And I think, you know, it all, all of these things, some changes were made, we're more comfortable, we're elite [00:20:00] tools, it's all going the right direction and, um. Seeing his, uh, you know, it's clear and watching him play and his attitude and just the things that you can pick up from like, you know, him, uh, like the, the way that he's carrying himself. It's all, it's all kind of coming together right now. Um, and you know, like just a, I think if there's ever a time to be, um, bone headedly optimistic about Jordan Walker, it's like you see a guy with this kind of power and this kind of played approach. You're not talking about 30 home runs a year. You're talking about 50 home runs a year. You're talking about a guy who ha, I mean, he is as toolsy as anybody in baseball. Um, you know, the sky's the limit. And it's really just like, can he play his game, not strike out too much and stay healthy? [00:20:52] Nate: Yeah. Well, I I, I'm cautious to flip from one month ago, us being, oh, I, we kind of think he [00:21:00] should be in AAA back to 50 home runs baby. 'cause I think that was part of the, the problem. But obviously I think what you're saying is. We see, like we had never really seen that elite potential at the major league level. Even when he was good in 2023, in his rookie year, it was like, okay, he's, he's, he's being a successful major league baseball player, but you know, he doesn't look like, um, an elite star right now. We see like, oh, okay, like this, it's in there. Uh, he can do this for at least 60, 70, played appearances. Um, so you do start to recalculate, what is that high end? What is that? Um, extreme 99th percentile outcome. You know, the errand judge of it, of it all sort of thing. [00:21:43] ben: Yeah. [00:21:44] Nate: which is a lot of fun. I, I don't want to pour water on it, but I just like, you know, there's going to be a period soon probably where he strikes out like 13 times in 18 at bats and we, we just need to like. [00:22:00] Recognize that he's probably somewhere in between the one 16 from his rookie season and the, what is he right now? A total WRC plus, [00:22:12] ben: he is completely erased. He is, uh, was negative 1.2 F four last year. He is at positive 1.3. He has deleted 111 games of horrible baseball [00:22:26] Nate: Yeah. [00:22:27] ben: 17 games. [00:22:28] Nate: Yeah. It's wild. Um, and yeah, you can, he's certainly can start to dream on like 50 home runs or whatever. Um, but I think we also need to be like, if he gets to 20 this year, like what a fun, what a, what a dramatic success from what, uh, the last two years have looked like and what the expectations were coming into this year, let alone 30, 40, [00:22:51] ben: I'm calling for, I, I'm like basically guaranteeing 30 i i I. And the reason I feel so confident in that, I think other things will fall off. Like he won't carry a [00:23:00] three 50 baab BIP and, and stuff like that going forward. Um, o other things will fall off, but I just think like the underlying, the, the bat swing metrics, the attack angle, everything. Like if he just keeps doing that, um, he's going to hit 30 bumps. I think there's also something to say about like, um, even if Le let's say, let's just say we live in a world where Jordan Walker hits 40 bumps this year. Um. [00:23:28] Nate: live in a world where Jordan Walker hits 40 bombs [00:23:30] ben: We've said that, um, like Jordan Walker, the team is in a current state now. I know they are in third place in the NL central right now, but like, teams don't need to plan around Jordan Walker, right? Like our bullpen isn't good. Our starting pitching is fine. The offense shows up sometimes it doesn't. Like you can kind of let Jordan Walker hit home runs. Um, like there, there, you know, there are bad players or good players who hit [00:24:00] an outsized number of home runs on a bad team because you don't need to really game plan and, and, and pitch against him very aggressively because Jordan Walker alone can't beat you. So I, I think for many reasons he's going to Eclipse 30. Does that, does that make sense what I'm trying to say? [00:24:18] Nate: why intentionally walk him? Why pitch around him? Why do anything like that? You know, when [00:24:25] ben: You're probably gonna win the game. Yeah. [00:24:27] Nate: and you just go at him, try to get the out. [00:24:29] ben: Challenge him. [00:24:30] Nate: odds are he's gets out anyway, so just go for it. [00:24:33] ben: Yeah. [00:24:34] Nate: yeah, yeah. Maybe speaking of, did you see, uh, I think it's the Mariners just called up Patrick Wisdom. I think a guy who was hit, uh, 30 home runs in, in seasons before with the Cubs basically being that guy. [00:24:47] ben: Wisdom is still around. [00:24:50] Nate: know, I was surprised myself. [00:24:51] ben: Good for him, I guess. [00:24:53] Nate: yeah. Um, yeah, the, I, it's, it'd be fun to see him steal more bases. [00:25:00] Small complaint. He did get one last night, and mostly it's because he just keeps, he keeps hitting the ball outta the park and doesn't get a lot of opportunity. But it would be really cool to see him like really become aggressive on the base path. So if teams start walking him, which they're going to probably do, he can really punish that by stealing second and making every walk into a double. Um, you know, that's will be interesting to see if he evolves that, [00:25:21] ben: Yeah. [00:25:22] Nate: it's just, can he keep it going? Uh, to answer my question before, he currently has a 2 0 8 WRC plus, um, so I mean, we could see significant regression and he's still a monster offensive player, you know, so, [00:25:36] ben: Yeah. [00:25:37] Nate: yeah. [00:25:38] ben: Patrick Wisdom had 35 bombs in 119 games in the KBO last year. [00:25:46] Nate: There you go. Good thing he's, uh, it was the Mariners, right? Good thing. He is, uh, going to the worst offensive environment in, in baseball to try to hit more home runs. [00:25:56] ben: Holy shit. Did you know that for Seattle's AAA [00:26:00] team, he has nine homers in 15 games to start the season. [00:26:05] Nate: He's better than Walker. [00:26:06] ben: slugging 7 74. [00:26:09] Nate: no wonder they called him up. [00:26:11] ben: Wow. Huh? All right. [00:26:14] Nate: sometimes. Come back from the KBO, a bunch of dingers. [00:26:16] ben: Yeah. Yeah. Um, all right. That's cool. Good for Patrick. [00:26:21] Nate: Yeah, [00:26:22] ben: Slug him. [00:26:22] Nate: just to end it, if you don't spend a lot of time on Statcast, uh, is a good time to go and look at Jordan Walker. I don't think I've ever seen, um, a blocker red at the top this hard. Even like, you know, Pico not filling every single one of these the way, uh, walker is right now. Uh, there's blue on there around whiff and, and chase and things like that, which isn't that uncommon for these types of hitters. Um, but the, the stack of red at the top is, uh, quite satisfying to look at right now. [00:26:53] ben: And again, he has improved those blue numbers year over year, so it's [00:27:00] still all trending in the right direction. Um, be very, I mean, he keeps slaying off that slider. He keeps slaying off that low on outside pitch. So, um, I, I'm feeling hopeful and optimistic and. My goodness, how much like, uh, a Jordan Walker breakout that really like, you know, we're talking about maybe we'll be competitive in 2027. Maybe it's coming, maybe it's coming. Jordan Walker turning into what we think he might be able to or capable of, would really tick that clock forward. [00:27:32] Nate: Yeah, suddenly having a 300 hitter with 30 plus bombs, uh, you know, is a pretty fundamental change to the lineup. And frankly, it's like the, the offense is looking kind of good right now for the Cardinals. It's not looking bad. I, I guess I would say overall it's being lifted quite heavily by Jordan Walker right now. There's really no one else on the team [00:27:52] ben: He is, [00:27:53] Nate: is, that is like carrying like he is, [00:27:56] ben: he is the best player in baseball right now. [00:27:58] Nate: yeah. [00:27:59] ben: is better than Aaron, [00:28:00] judge, shhe, Tani, Bobby, wi all of 'em. He's better than everybody right now, so, yeah, this is, this is, don't get used to, this is, is what I'm trying to say. [00:28:08] Nate: Yeah. Uh, but let's keep the, uh, the good vibes rolling. Um, it, it might not feel like good vibes right now, but I think we're all, um, feeling pretty optimistic about Yvonne Herrera right now. I know you did a little on the data. What do you want to talk about? [00:28:25] ben: Ivan has had a weird start to the season. We know that he was, uh, he didn't get like a full normal spring training, so some people are blaming that. But what I think is interesting is that Ivan already has Yvonne, sorry, already has 15 walks on the season. He has tied for second in baseball. He's also been smashing the ball. He has over a 50% hard hit rate right now. Um, so when he is, when pitchers are coming in and, and, and pitching to him, he's smashing the shit outta the ball. His expected stats are all well over what his actual stats are right now. For [00:29:00] example, his woba, his real woba is three 10 is expected is 3 92. That's almost, [00:29:04] Nate: That's, [00:29:05] ben: that 80 point different right there? That that's huge. [00:29:08] Nate: if you're not familiar, anything around a 400 woba is like all star level, uh, near elite, if not elite, depending on, on what exactly the, the 400 is composed of. Um, so if you're anywhere near that from an expected, that means your, your approach, your process is near elite. Um, just whether your results are or not is the, the whim of baseball. [00:29:32] ben: and, and I think the only real problem is that he has about a four, uh, launch angle right now. So, uh, you know, for his career it's double that if not a little more than that. Um, so I think that this is just him kind of coming, you know, coming online this season. He's still hitting the ball really well. He's showing a better eye than he's ever shown in, in, uh, professional baseball. Um, and I think that we are. On the precipice. You know, maybe today as we're recording, I [00:30:00] think that Yvo Herrera is about to go super san here any moment and start donking dongs over the wall and, and hitting those, getting those extra base hits. But it is knocking on the door, Nathan. [00:30:11] Nate: Yes. Yeah. Uh, and I mean, coming into the season, he was like the guy we were most confident about from an offensive profile [00:30:19] ben: Yeah. [00:30:20] Nate: Um, obviously slow start, but, um, man, if he starts getting back into his, the, the expected stats are turning into expected results well as what, uh, uh, Walker is doing. You can start to see the, the profile of what a, like the Cardinals as a legitimate competitive offense starts to look like. [00:30:44] ben: Yeah. Um, yeah, I mean, you know, we've, we've talked about this like right-handed power hitters. Uh, our, the most valuable thing in MLB and, you know, we're talking about having a couple of them, um, who are young, [00:31:00] controlled here for a while and are both kind of coming into their own maybe at the same time. Um, yeah, I'm enjoying that. [00:31:09] Nate: Hey, me too. [00:31:11] ben: Yep. [00:31:11] Nate: I'll, we also gotta throw out, 'cause it happened last night, JJ Weather Holt first multi home run game. [00:31:17] ben: Wow. [00:31:19] Nate: yeah, uh, some bombs too. Uh, key piece of the comeback, win against the, the guardians, uh, which have a good bullpen typically. And, uh, was fun. So, you know, again, like that top half of the lineup, let's not talk about the bottom half right now, but that top half of the lineup, like looking pretty good if, uh, if things come together. Um, and then it's though, do they come together at the right time together? Does it sync up, et cetera, you know, but that's, that's, you can't really control that as much. It's just, um, but jj, Yvonne, Jordan, and, you know, Burley's in there too, [00:31:54] ben: Yeah. [00:31:55] Nate: is [00:31:55] ben: I have been so pleasantly [00:32:00] surprised by everything about J's game, like every aspect of it. The, the double home runs both off. Lefties was amazing. One pull side, one backside. Like what, what rookie in the first two week, three weeks of baseball is going, lefty, lefty, backside home, run late in the game as a second baseman. Like what? Like it's just, he is very, very impressive. His own run earlier this year was an O2, uh, a little off the play or a real in on him, like he is just been. Something to watch. Uh, well, something I wanted to talk about since we're, we're bringing up JJ right now, is the defense. [00:32:42] Nate: Yeah. [00:32:43] ben: I think we, we, you know, we talked a hundred times about how the bat's gonna play. The bat's gonna play, just let the kid, you know, get used to the bigs and everything like that. The defense is shocking. Defense metric, defensive metrics are weird and tricky and squishy, but it's all we [00:33:00] have to talk about right now because we only have so little, we have 17 games to, of, of play of baseball. J'S rating is one of the best defenders. N-L-B-N-M-L-B Stack Ass loves this range and outs above average. And according to fan's defensive war, the only player above him in any position in MLB period is Bobby Whit Jr. [00:33:23] Nate: Who [00:33:24] ben: Yeah, he's pretty good, right? [00:33:27] Nate: Yeah, though. Have you seen, I need to look at it real quick. Uh, not, not too much, too long of a sidetrack here, but Bobby Witt has, uh, up to this point in the season one run scored. [00:33:39] ben: That doesn't really speak to his defensive prowess, but uh, [00:33:43] Nate: But isn't, that isn't, yeah. It's still, it's, we're 17 games into the season. He is one of the best hitters in baseball, he has scored one [00:33:51] ben: I was actually just reading about that. Doesn't he have a bunch of stolen bases too? [00:33:54] Nate: Yeah, it's just a crazy outlier. [00:33:56] ben: Yeah, [00:33:57] Nate: a run scored, obviously there's a full second [00:34:00] component that is out of the player's control. Um, so it's more just like an insane outlier that like hitting at the heart of a, of a lineup that's generally considered pretty good. Uh, and he's one of the best hitters in baseball who's incredibly fast [00:34:12] ben: Yeah. [00:34:13] Nate: has one run scored 17 games in. [00:34:16] ben: He has eight stolen bases as well, so that means he's on second base essentially every time he is on base. [00:34:20] Nate: Yeah, it's wild. [00:34:22] ben: Yeah. [00:34:23] Nate: probably still gonna end up with 95 plus at the end of the year and because that's how baseball go, but just totally crazy. [00:34:30] ben: Wow. [00:34:31] Nate: anyway, back on the, on the jj uh, thing. Um, yeah, I mean it's incredible. Um, we're gonna talk about an extension, uh, later in the episode of another young, uh, very good player and it just seems like the price is going up on JJ right now. [00:34:48] ben: It down. Give him the money. Uh, let him and whoever else decides to stick around. Mason Jordan, uh, Libby, who, whoever your, your favorite flavor of [00:35:00] player is. But this guy seems clearly like, might maybe already one of the best of defensive second baseman in baseball. Um, obviously mature approach. He's got some pop he can steal a base. It's, it's everything. [00:35:12] Nate: Yeah. Yep. Um, let's move over to the pitching a little bit. Um. I think that Riley O'Brien is going to get 40 plus saves this year for the St. Louis Cardinals. think that is a combo of the type of team they are, uh, in that they are going to score a bunch of runs, but give up a bunch. So they're gonna be in a bunch of close games, and I think he's going to end up with a lot of opportunities. I think that he has established himself as an incredibly effective pitcher, uh, to start the season. And I think he has essentially locked himself into the closer role and he is looking like one of the better relievers in baseball right now, which is, uh, a lot of fun and a huge need for a team that plans to compete in the near future. [00:35:59] ben: [00:36:00] Also the, the amount of control that the Cardinals have on him. You talk about a Statcast page being read. This guy's page is all red. There is, there is no dip. It is all, uh, 80 percentile or higher, and it's everything you want to see. It is obviously the velo is, uh, shocking for the amount of movement that he has. Um, it's it kind of video gamey, uh, but the extension, uh, the way he misses barrels, his strikeouts, he doesn't walk anybody. It's, it's everything. He's also like tall and lanky and, uh, just goofy enough, like it looks like it's tough to hit. From my point of view. I can't imagine what it's like being in the batter's box. Um, but he is nasty. Um. Controlled, uh, by, by which I mean the team has control over him for a while. It is everything you want. Um, and often it's like, you know, when a team is in this phase, you're like, ah, well the closer, a good closer is the [00:37:00] last thing we need right now. But, um, when you have him for five more years and he seems to be coming into his own right now, it's kind of like he said, like a perfect situation. Like keep, keep the ri, keep him healthy, but uh, keep, keep chugging on. And like, not to mention, he had a weird spring. He had an injury, he didn't get to pitch, um, as much as we would want him to, and he looks totally unfazed by any of that. [00:37:21] Nate: Yeah. Very exciting. Um, yeah, like if they want to compete next year, you certainly want to go into the season, you plan to compete, knowing who your best reliever is. Right. Um, now there's a lot of questions before him right now, um, but in that we, we know we have this ace reliever, if you will. Um, that's a, that's a huge step in the right direction. Uh, and we've been pretty comfortable and confident with how the cartels have built their bullpen over the years. Little shaky right now, we're figuring it out. Who's good, who's not the root, the carousel is gonna continue [00:38:00] to happen, but starting at the end, knowing we've got our guy and working backwards, uh, is, is a good place to be. [00:38:08] ben: Um, Riley O'Brien Sinker has averaged a little over 97 miles per hour this season. It has elite movement. Um, it has. 17 inches of arm side break on average. Um, which you think that's, you know, essentially home plate. He can do that at 97 miles per hour. Uh, he's a nasty, he's a bad, bad man. Nathan. I, I like it. [00:38:32] Nate: bad man. [00:38:33] ben: Nasty, nasty. [00:38:34] Nate: Na, he's a nasty, Dustin May, what'd you think? What'd you think of that last starter? We are, we, how, how are we feeling about him right now? [00:38:45] ben: it's, as we're talking about, Dustin, may I, I'm watching him. Uh, he's digging his little foot into the mound at Bush Stadium right now. Um, getting, getting on that rubber, you know, as they love to do. [00:38:57] Nate: Hell yeah, brother. [00:38:58] ben: Um, but I [00:39:00] was really impressed. I feel like we finally, you know, he got his first start outta the way that one was bad. Uh, the start in Detroit, he got hit in the ankle and it kind of went really terribly really, really quickly. Um, you know, to How much of that was him being rattled by the foot or the ankle or whatever? I don't know. It's, you know, only he knows, I guess, really. Uh, but then he had that start against Boston. Uh, he went six innings. He only gave up one earned run, four strikeouts, no walks. Um, I thought he looked really good. Um, he kept people off the bases for the most part. And all of the underlying metrics on his breaking pitches was like elite. We're talking like elite level curve ball sweeper. We know that he throws a fast ball near a hundred miles per hour. Um, I think if you can just do those three things, throw a fastball that far, uh, that fast and have two elite breaking balls, you can be pretty damn successful in the big leagues. Curious to see how they continue to develop this. [00:40:00] Um, one thing that it is notable now that we have three starts of Dustin May, is that they are using his four seam a lot more than Boston was using his four seam. Um, but he's making some changes and just cherry picking his last start, we'll see how today goes. We're, he's about to throw his first pitch right now. Um, we'll see how the day goes, but I was really encouraged by the last start and, you know, with a guy like Justin May and the weird season that he is, had to start. I think that's, I I'm fine with being overly optimistic on six innings. [00:40:37] Nate: It's nice to see a good start [00:40:38] ben: Yep. I. [00:40:39] Nate: all things considered. It's early in the season. You know, um, in, in, in a month we'll be looking back at starts one and two, as you know, just that, just the very beginning of the, of the season. So it's a good thing to build on and we'll see where it goes. But it was certainly nice in a, uh, increasing, uh, amount of [00:41:00] mediocre starting pitching, uh, performances. It was nice to see one where we're like, oh, yeah, okay, there we go. That's what this could look like. Um, [00:41:10] ben: Yeah, they're, they call him UNC and he is like 28 years old. Right. And something like that. We'll, we'll take it. [00:41:15] Nate: yeah. It, it's like, it's still so early in the season, but I've found myself thinking like, I don't think any of these guys are in the rotation in the next, uh, two years, but I gotta also, you know, my deep breath and remember it's three starts or whatever. And if this was June, we'd be feeling very different about any [00:41:34] ben: I, [00:41:35] Nate: three starts. [00:41:36] ben: I, I think that, I think this is a, a night. This is not, I'm not trying to be. Um, clicky or, or give a hot take or anything like that. Nate, but you know what I think should happen? [00:41:46] Nate: What? [00:41:46] ben: I think that the Cardinals should trade. Matthew Liberator, Michael McGreevy, Dustin May, Kyle Leahy and Andre Ante to the Nationals for James Wood have James Wooden left, Jordan Walker and Right.[00:42:00] We'll call 'em the Twin Towers. [00:42:02] Nate: Okay. [00:42:03] ben: A hundred homeowners a year from left and right field. [00:42:06] Nate: I love it. I'm all in. And we'll just do bullpen games for the rest of the season. We both get what we want. [00:42:15] ben: Um, I was thinking about that the other day. 'cause James Wood has had, had a nice start. I love watching him play. He's, he's like, he's just a mirror image of Jordan Walker. You know, um, um, they're both super tall. They're both outfielders, they're both surprisingly fast, ton of power. Um, lefty righty. I say, I say we go get James Wood, bring them in, bring them into the fold. [00:42:37] Nate: And I know you're a big James Woods fan as well. Um, [00:42:41] ben: Uh, mostly the politics, less the acting. Yeah. [00:42:44] Nate: Oh, he is an actor. I didn't know that. [00:42:47] ben: And a, a contributor to family guy, at least back in the early two thousands. [00:42:52] Nate: Right. We love Family Guy, don't we, folks? Um, all right. Let's, let's check down on the farm for a moment. [00:43:00] Uh, there's some interesting performances happening, and I like the, the bullpen shuffle has already started. [00:43:05] ben: Yeah. [00:43:06] Nate: I'm wondering when the lineup shuffle starts to happen. Um, so we've got a marked here. Jimmy Crooks, we talked about him last week. Uh, he's already been at the Major League level. has for a long time been considered likely the catcher of the future for the Cardinals. Um, he looked pretty rough at the, uh, offensively in his cup of coffee, um, but down at the miners he is right now, absolutely crushing it. And look, I like Pa Hayes. We all like Hayes. He seems like a good dude. Um, but with Yvonne Herrera catching two games, uh, you know, I think he's been catching McGreevy and ante, seemingly pretty comfortable and confident there. I'm, I think I'm about ready for the, for the Crooks era to begin again. And, um, I don't know what we do with Pa [00:44:00] Hayes. He is a major league level catcher. Um, but I think I'd like to see the offensive upside of, of Jimmy Crooks back at the majors pretty soon. [00:44:08] ben: I think the, the problem is nothing to do with Pa Hay. It, it's just that he is not the future of this club. And Jimmy Crooks very much could be. We, we don't know yet. Um, but I, I, I think you, you look at what PA Hayes has done the last two years, obviously it's easy to extrapolate that on what he, he's done this year. Um, which he's currently rocking the 65 WRC Plus. He might be a little bit better than that. Um, but he is a vibes guy and a good defensive catcher. And that is a perfect backup catcher. That is, that is an ideal backup catcher, um, for, for my money. Um, and I think Jimmy Crooks, um, like you said, he's slugging away. He doesn't wear batting gloves, which is also a good thing we. [00:44:52] Nate: don't we? [00:44:53] ben: We know that he's a good defender. Um, and we know that he knows the guys. Like obviously he was in spring training for a while. [00:45:00] Uh, he had a cup of coffee last year, like I think that he could come up and, and take over. Um, but I would love to see Jimmy Crooks bumped up and at some point here soon-ish, um, him bumped up, made your everyday catcher, PA Hayes goes to the backup roll, the vibes roll, the game planning role, whatever you wanna call it. Just hanging out with Yachty on the bench every day. And I know Joel Pozo just had a really nice game winning hit, but you gotta bounce him out. I, I, it just doesn't make any sense. Um, [00:45:33] Nate: like you. Just like you said last week, gotta say no, no to Pozo. [00:45:37] ben: goddess, did I say that? [00:45:39] Nate: Yeah. [00:45:40] ben: Okay. That's pretty good. That's maybe a t-shirt. We'll, we'll, we'll talk about this off pod. [00:45:47] Nate: A full, someone will. If you're out there and you would buy and wear a no, no depose o shirt, let me know what a specific moment in time that [00:45:56] ben: Yeah. Uh, [00:45:56] Nate: Um, but I could, we can, we could go, we could do that. We did [00:45:59] ben: [00:46:00] yeah, [00:46:01] Nate: have the John Maks face on a shirt that just said, snake under it for a little while and someone out there bought one. I think so. Um, well, [00:46:10] ben: that's, that's just good TV right there. Um, yeah, so, uh, but, but I really, I, I, I do think it's time. I think that, um, we, well, he's hitting, um, and I would rather throw these abs at somebody who I think might be here next year, um, than somebody who is just keeping the chair warm. You know, I. [00:46:31] Nate: Yeah, I agree. That's been my argument from day one that if, if the person on the roster is not someone that we're trying out for a long-term role, then what are they doing here? Um, it's the same argument I had against Ramon Urus, who's been fine, like to give him credit for him, like no problem with him. Specifically, it's him as a type of player on the team. It is, uh, PA Hayes Pozo. I guess maybe at a time you were arguing. Let's [00:47:00] see what he is. Maybe he's a long-term piece. Uh, but that ship is probably sailed. Um, so I, I think part of it is probably just, it's only 17 games in, let's give a little bit more time, more played appearances to make these decisions. Uh, and I imagine they might wanna see Jimmy Crook's excel at the minor league level for longer before making that choice. But I do think it's coming up. [00:47:22] ben: And well, it's catcher's different than all the positions too. It's like, you know, the, there has, there's like a, a ramp up and maybe they're ramping him up without our knowledge or, or maybe somebody's reported on that and I've missed it. Of, of like getting him like in the major league system so that once he does come up it's seamless and he can just start right away and not piss off any of the, the pitchers or anything like that. But, um, yeah, I think, um, I get why people like Joel Pozo, um, I'm not sure he's a major league baseball player. [00:47:55] Nate: Yeah. Um, well down at the farm also, [00:48:00] uh, blaze Jordan is, uh, having a pretty start and he was a third baseman at one time. Can [00:48:12] ben: That is, [00:48:13] Nate: Can he still play third? [00:48:16] ben: Can he still play? Third, I will tell you as a, uh, St. Louis Cardinal, um, this season he has stick starts, um, down in AAA as a third baseman. Hasn't made an air yet. Nate. [00:48:35] Nate: Okay. [00:48:35] ben: He has been hit the ball 14 times, so that's [00:48:40] Nate: hit. He has been hit. Now you're just putting your name into the middle of sentences randomly. He has been hit the ball 14 times. [00:48:48] ben: trying to read numbers while talking. [00:48:50] Nate: I think he also had Nate for four home runs or something like that a couple days ago. [00:48:55] ben: He is got Nate four home runs. Uh, he's got a, uh, a [00:49:00] 3 59 Ben bip. Um, but he is got, for real, he is got a 1 77 WRC plus. He's Donking Dongs left and right. He's playing a little bit of third. He's playing a little bit of first, he's playing a little bit of dh. He's a lefty slugger. He is not really walked, but he's not striking out a ton either. Um, I do wonder just because of his age, uh, because of, um, uh, the fact that the Cardinals like, obviously sought him out, brought him in. I want, I I I would not be surprised if the Blaze Jordan, um, call up is sooner than later because of like a, a bunch of those other factors. Not even necessarily because he is dominating right now, but because of like the shape of player and the age and everything like that. [00:49:45] Nate: Yeah. At some point you decide, is this like he had to clear waivers LA uh, in spring he was up for potential rule five. Acquisition and no one grabbed him. Um, but if he's crushing at the [00:50:00] minors, that won't happen again. At some point you do have to decide like, is he a long-term piece of this organization? If so, we need to make a fundamental choice here. Otherwise, like let him go and, and go somewhere else where he has a shot. Uh, so I think with what we're seeing right now at third base also, um, it may be sooner rather than later and see if they can ride the hot streak and see if it, uh, uh, transfers over to the major leagues. Little. [00:50:24] ben: Yeah. I wonder what you do with Gorney in that situation. Like you probably don't send him down, do you? You pinch hit him, hope he gets hot. Do you DH him a little bit when Yvonne is behind the dish? You know, how does that go? But I, I think you were hinting at this and like, I don't know. It probably makes sense to have him if he were to come up third base dh, um, doesn't really make like, I guess maybe if you want to give Burley a day off against a tough lefty, you slide Jordan over to first base. Um, but yeah. Um, [00:51:00] I think it makes sense. [00:51:01] Nate: Yeah. [00:51:02] ben: I'm also not calling for this one, like I'm calling for Jimmy Crooks, but it is notable that he's like, he's had a lot of success so far this season. [00:51:10] Nate: Yeah. And I, I, you know, we're both pretty big Gorman fans and want to believe, and going into the season, I would've said 17 games is not enough of a sample size to make a decision on Gorman. Um, I don't know, maybe I'm feeling a little bit different right now. Um, I, I think you'd let him go for longer. Um, but I, I'm sure that that discussion is starting to happen. Well, there's a [00:51:36] ben: It's [00:51:36] Nate: having him play third again. [00:51:37] ben: right. And I think that like the way I'm like, I. Is it too early to decide to, to make a real decision on Nolan Gorman based on this season? Yes, but let's not forget that we have 800 plus plate appearances from 25 and 24 like these. Like this is not made in a vacuum. Like [00:52:00] maybe he's not doing exactly what he did last year. Maybe there are shapes to his production that are slightly different. Um, and, and maybe the Cardinals have more advanced analytics and metrics that they're going off. But from my point of view, it looks like more of the same. [00:52:14] Nate: Yeah. I, agree. [00:52:17] ben: Maybe the defense is a little better to give him some credit. [00:52:20] Nate: I [00:52:20] ben: Yeah, [00:52:21] Nate: true. I think we've seen plays from him this year that I wouldn't have expected him to make and that he probably wouldn't have made last year, which is good, you know? 'cause if he was over there booting the ball left and right all day too, this would be a very different conversation. But they are already starting to put ERUs out there more. They've put Blaze Jordan at third in the minors. Like you can kind of see where the, um. the direction is going unless he has a sudden turnaround, [00:52:47] ben: Which would be fun. [00:52:49] Nate: We just saw, we, we are witnessing the worst player in baseball in 2025, be the best player in baseball in 2026. So you [00:52:58] ben: Needs to [00:52:59] Nate: when.[00:53:00] [00:53:00] ben: drink some of that Jordan Walker sweat or something. I don't know. Like get, get it on you. Whatever he's got, get it. [00:53:06] Nate: Yeah, I think that's probably the move is drink a sweat. Um, we've got a couple, the, the bullpen carousel is upon us. Uh, the Cardinals have designated Jared Schuster for assignment that'll teach him to come up and give us three reasonable innings. Uh, and they've recalled Ryan Fernandez, uh, from the Red Birds. So the Fernandez, uh, experiment continues. [00:53:34] ben: He had good numbers and, and he had good numbers in a, a very short amount of time in aaa. Uh, we've seen him be very good over the length of a season. Um, yeah, I like it. [00:53:46] Nate: Yeah, and this was always gonna happen, Schuster, like, this is just how bullpens are managed. You come up, you give three innings, they need some people more short term, so swap 'em out. all pretty normal. Just [00:53:58] ben: Yeah. [00:53:58] Nate: Ferez at [00:54:00] times has looked like the future closer of the cardinals for the long term and at times has not been able to be a major league pitcher. [00:54:06] ben: Yeah, [00:54:07] Nate: um, maybe this is the time where it sticks would [00:54:10] ben: that'd be great. Yeah. [00:54:11] Nate: Yep. and, uh, Matt, uh, Baard, Matt Bouchard has started a, uh, a re rehab assignment. Uh, you directly accused the St. Louis Cardinals of roster manipulation with his, uh, um, um, uh, uh, placement on the IL and, and rehab and all that. Uh, so we'll see. I guess we'll see if your accusation, [00:54:37] ben: I'm watching, I will be watching the pitch mix. I will be watching the spin numbers. I will be paying attention to all that. 'cause I wanna be proven right obviously, which is more important than anything. [00:54:47] Nate: Of course, [00:54:48] ben: Of course. Thank you. [00:54:50] Nate: that the St. Louis Cardinals have committed, uh, uh, uh, um, enforceable offense of Major League baseball. And you hope that, I assume 'cause you're a [00:55:00] good rule following boy, you would want them to be held accountable, similar to how the Mets were in the past [00:55:04] ben: Hey, [00:55:04] Nate: to be true. [00:55:05] ben: I'm not a cop, Nate. I just seek the truth, okay? I'm not trying to get anybody in trouble, [00:55:11] Nate: I follow Nate. The rainbow of truth knobs out beaks. Bloody, [00:55:18] ben: okay? That you're Benit Blanc. [00:55:22] Nate: it's a donut. Oh, he talks about donut holes. There's a dough, there's a hole in the donut with a smaller hole in there. [00:55:30] ben: All right, [00:55:31] Nate: We love Beit Blanc. [00:55:35] ben: move along [00:55:37] Nate: Alright, I think that's everything. Anything else you wanna talk about with the Cardinals before we move on to the second half? [00:55:43] ben: now with you, dude. [00:55:45] Nate: Good thing we, uh, let's go to the lines then. All right, no one's calling, [00:55:52] ben: Damn. [00:55:53] Nate: We're going to talk about the upcoming series. Talk a little about, a little bit about some league news and play a little [00:56:00] game. But before we get to that, we wanna remind all of our listeners that this show is listener supported on Patreon, patreon.com/talking about birds. If you wanna support the show directly, uh, to, to us, you can consider joining the Patreon. Uh, there's a bunch of different subscriber levels, uh, but level everybody who subscribes. Uh, at any level gets access to the bird score. That is our private Discord server. We talk about it a lot on the show at this point. Uh, it really is a, uh, a home for us on the internet, uh, to talk about baseball with other baseball fans and avoid social media and all the other stuff. Um, so check it out. We're breaking news there. We're talking about, we're doing game day chats. We're doing all sorts of fun stuff in there, and I recommend you join patreon.com/talking about birds. Uh, we also appreciate anyone who leaves us a message, uh, or leaves us a review on their favorite podcast platform that really does help us. As does telling your [00:57:00] friends and family, you're talking about Jordan Walker with your buddies, be like, Hey, I learned about attack angle from talking about birds. It's a really stupid show, but every once in a while they have a good guest on who says something smart. So I recommend that you listen. Uh, just, you know, our names in your mouth. [00:57:16] ben: Maybe when you're pitching it, don't start with the stupidity of the show. Let people find that out on their own. [00:57:23] Nate: yeah, I guess I, I feel like maybe you got a warrant a little bit, but [00:57:27] ben: All right. Do whatever you gotta do. [00:57:28] Nate: the first, first few minutes generally, uh, ham bone, where else can people find us online? [00:57:33] ben: Yeah, you can find us on the socials. We have a blue sky Instagram, and a TikTok. You can watch this episode on YouTube if you prefer to watch us. Uh, you can find all of the information, uh, about the podcast and t-shirts and more@talkingaboutbirds.com. Of course, you can email us directly to talk about birds@gmail.com, and you can call us and leave a voicemail or send us a text message to 8 4 8 [00:58:00] 48 birds. That's 8 4 8 4 8 2 4 7 3 7. [00:58:06] Nate: 8 4, 8 48 birds. All right. Ham and the Cardinals will be going to Houston [00:58:12] ben: Yeah. [00:58:13] Nate: for three games. Houston, a consistently good team, has had brutal start to the season. What are you seeing in this upcoming, series? [00:58:24] ben: Yeah. Um, it is interesting. Are we seeing a, just a like. Kind of a cluster of bad luck, um, or is this team on the way out? The pitching has been terrible. Just, just terrible so far. They've also been quite injured. They have 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 guys on the IL right now. [00:58:50] Nate: Yeah. [00:58:51] ben: Um, hunter Brown is on the Il Tya. Emai just went on the il. Christian Javier just went on the il. Uh, [00:59:00] Josh Hater has been on the il. Jeremy Pena just went on the il. The team is battered and bruised and uh, you know, it's, it's hard to be an effective baseball team with all of those people gone. Um, what is worth me mentioning is that Yoan Alvarez is that guy. Um, he is healthy. He is only 28 years old. Um. [00:59:25] Nate: the least surprising bounce back, uh, of all time, Yodon Alvarez is absolutely crushing the ball. Um, you know, would be one of the stories offensively in the league if it wasn't for Jordan Walker [00:59:36] ben: Right, right. [00:59:37] Nate: Uh, so like right now it looks like the Astros they're pitching is broken and their hitting is, is good. [00:59:44] ben: Yeah. [00:59:45] Nate: cam Smith is also breaking out. They still have Jose Altuve, um, Carlos Correa, you know, he's in and out, but he's been hitting the ball well when he's playing. So they have a good offense. They lost like nine games in a row, I think it was, [01:00:00] which was, uh, uh, the first time that it happened for them in like over 15 years or something like that. Um, but I, I think, I think that is, frankly, I think it's outlier and [01:00:10] ben: Yeah. [01:00:10] Nate: of their pictures being hurt. 'cause I think like. They're only seven and 11. Um, so it's not like they're that far down and that offense can beat anyone. So when we look at our matchup, like a little worried, this looks like a game, a, a series prime to be like a nine to eight, [01:00:27] ben: Yeah. [01:00:28] Nate: to six sort of thing. [01:00:30] ben: Yeah. Uh, yeah. I'll also say it looks like Jose Altuve is really benefiting from the a BS system, um, which is interesting. He had, he is getting like a lot of calls going his way, and I, I think we're seeing a lot of changes, but it's been interesting, um, little revitalization in his age, 35, 30, 36 season. [01:00:50] Nate: 36. Yeah. [01:00:51] ben: Um, the, uh, uh, as far as the pitching matchups, it looks like on Friday it's gonna be Jason Alexander, not that [01:01:00] Jason Alexander, Nate, um, against Kyle Lehe. [01:01:02] Nate: my latex sales. [01:01:05] ben: Uh, Saturday is Cody Bolton, who I've never heard of against Andre [01:01:10] Nate: I. [01:01:10] ben: Ante. Uh, and then Sunday it's Mike Burrows against Matthew Lior. Um, yeah, from a pitching standpoint, I'll, I'll take us in in most of those matchups. Um, but, uh, like you said, their offense is legit. [01:01:24] Nate: Yeah, Mike Burroughs was supposed to be pretty good. He is. Had a pretty rough start to the [01:01:28] ben: He got destroyed the other night. Yeah. It was not a, not a great game for Burroughs. [01:01:33] Nate: yeah. I'm expecting a high scoring, uh, series here on [01:01:37] ben: Yeah. [01:01:39] Nate: Uh, um, after that, the Cardinals will go to Miami. Always an interesting team to play, um, AMBA. And how you, what do you, what do you expect to see from this, uh, Miami series? [01:01:51] ben: Yeah, Miami is such a, a weird team that I don't really know how to wrap my brain around. [01:02:00] Um, I guess I'll start with the part that I do understand it and that's that they have pretty good pitching. Uh, the Cardinals are gonna face Max Meyer against Michael McGreevy, Chris Paddock, and Dustin May and Jason Jung versus Kyle Lehi. I think Jason Junk is kind of taking a little bit of a step forward. [01:02:15] Nate: He's breaking out a little bit. Yeah, he's been a lot. There's been a lot of talk about junk. Great. Baseball [01:02:22] ben: Great baseball name. [01:02:24] Nate: Especially for a pitcher. I mean, classic. [01:02:27] ben: Max Meyer has been long touted as a guy who, who's got a high ceiling. Cardinals are luckily missing Alcon and Yuri Perez, so that makes life a little bit easier when you go down to Miami. Um, on the offensive side, like, like they got a lot, like Augustine Ramirez is probably a thumper. I, I think he's probably a good hitter. But everybody else, Jacob, Marcy, Xavier Edwards. I think Xavier Edwards is a good player. I don't know if he's an excellent offensive player. Um, Owen, Casey. Connor, no. Norby, like, these are all huge question [01:03:00] marks to me. I don't really feel super confident about anybody on their team other than I, I think Xavier Edwards is a good player all around player and Augustine is, is probably a good player too. [01:03:12] Nate: Otto Lopez is having a pretty good start to the season. Um, you know, and he's a guy who's flashed some good underlying metrics at times, so [01:03:20] ben: Good defender too. [01:03:21] Nate: Yeah, so he might be breaking out a little bit for them. Um, yeah, you know, Liam Hicks has had a crazy start to the season. Is, is it real or not? Hard to say. Um, it's already started tapering off a little bit, but he came outta the gates hitting the ball harder than he is ever hit it. Um, so there's a few guys like. You know, you could, like, I, I imagine a lot of, uh, Marlins fans, whoever you are out there, like, probably feel a little bit like Cardinals fans do with a lot of our lineup where it's like, oh, like, okay, like you can kind of see like if it comes together, this is a good lineup, but right now no one's quite doing it just yet other than this [01:04:00] guy and this guy a little bit, you know, like they're all interesting names who have at different times had different degrees of expectations and pedigrees, but it just isn't really coming together just yet. [01:04:10] ben: Yeah. [01:04:11] Nate: Um, you know, Owen, Casey has looked pretty good. Um, they are platooning him right now. Um, so, you know, like, we'll see. Um, but you know, the Marlins are not a bad team. They're just not a good team yet either. [01:04:27] ben: Yeah, I, they're interesting. I'll give 'em that. [01:04:33] Nate: Yeah. [01:04:34] ben: Um, yeah, but they're still the Marlins. Um, alright, uh, should we move on to League News? [01:04:42] Nate: Let's do it. [01:04:43] ben: Only? A couple of things I want to talk about today. The Tigers announced, uh, this morning that they've agreed to an eight year, $150 million extension with infielder and super prospect Kevin McGonigal. Um, we obviously saw him early [01:05:00] this season. I think he just hit his first Major League home run earlier this week. Um, the kids pretty legit from the little bit that I've seen him play. Um, but I, I think the more interesting thing is just like, what, what is this Nate? Our, our seventh or eighth? Very young prospect with almost no major league experience getting a massive, um, extension over a hundred million dollars. Like this is, it's going around. [01:05:28] Nate: Yeah. And you gotta, I mean, you know, j j's out there just like. Licking his chops, right? Because this, like I had said that Connor Griffin, you know, one 40 and that was nine years though. Um, you know, that felt higher than what I would expect to get. then McGonigal gets more for less, like more, more money for less years. And you can certainly make an argument that JJ was both a higher tiered [01:06:00] prospect and has had a better major league debut. Though McGonigal has had a, a fantastic debut in his own right and is a shortstop, but still, you could argue that they've been pretty similar in overall valuation and everything. now I don't know if McConnell gets 8, 1 50, what does JJ get? It's like, might be around that if they do it. [01:06:19] ben: I would be fine with that. Buy out those r beers, buy out a couple of free agency years. Um, yeah, fully. Fully. And I still think even though it sounds like a lot of money, um, it's still from a team perspective, you're saving cash there. You're saving cash, you're saving predictability. Um, you know, it's still makes a ton of sense. We are, uh, approaching a very interesting age of middle infielders of, like this Connor Griffin, McGonigal, uh, JJ Ana Bana, how do you say his name? Bana. [01:06:52] Nate: Bana [01:06:52] ben: Bana hasn't come up yet, but he, he looks like he's gonna be a really strong second baseman. Um, Griffin, like all [01:07:00] the, like, we're in an interesting middle Linfield era that's about to begin, and I feel like we're gonna be watching a lot of these guys for a long time. [01:07:07] Nate: Yeah. Kind of Griffin's 20, uh uh, McGonigal, I think is 20. [01:07:14] ben: He's 21. Yeah. [01:07:16] Nate: in 21. JJ Iss the old man in the group. [01:07:18] ben: yeah. Um, yeah. Did you see after, uh, uh, Connor Griffin signed that contract? Um, Paul Skeen said something to the effect of, yeah, he is gonna be here a long time. Like, and everyone's like, oh, he's signaling that, uh, Paul Skees is gonna be a Yankee here in a couple of years. [01:07:35] Nate: Ball Skiing's staring down the barrel of a $700 million contract from the Yankees in four years or whatever. It's like That's cute. Your little one 50. [01:07:44] ben: Yeah. Good job. Yeah. [01:07:45] Nate: Yeah. [01:07:46] ben: Um, all right, moving along your cubbies, Nate, have a huge blow and that is Cade Horton is going to undergo season ending UCL surgery. Talk about a team that's had bad health luck. They got Cade Horton down for the year. [01:08:00] Matthew Boyd is currently down. Justin Steele still working his way back, and Jordan Wicks is dealing with elbow inflamma inflammation. Um, huge blow to the cubbies. They've had a weird start to the year so far. Um, you know, they're in last place in the central, although all the teams are divided by two games. It's not, not the end of the world, but this one feels real and, and maybe not devastating, but this is not good. [01:08:28] Nate: Well, if you're a Cubs fan and you're dreaming on the future and like having a rotation, that's good. Consistently, Cade Horton was a huge part of it. Um, now was he going to be like an ace this year? You know, he certainly was breaking out last year and I'm sure that, uh, projections and everything had him taking a step forward this year and being a center of it. never know. It's very disappointing. Uh, there's no such thing as a pitching prospect, you know, that's, this is just another version of that. Uh, so we'll see what he looks like in the future. [01:09:00] Um, but, uh, yeah, big hit to the Cubs and yeah, it's two games or whatever, but the Cubs have come out flatter than we expected, [01:09:06] ben: Yeah. [01:09:07] Nate: they're getting healthier. You know, say a Suzuki just came back, he's a big part of their lineup. Um, PCA has been trash, as you have predicted. Um, but he, I don't think it'll be that bad, uh, for the whole season. Um, [01:09:20] ben: Luckily, he is a great defender and, and the club, the club is still good. Um, I think the club is still better than most of the teams in the central, but, um, huge hit and lots of them coming. I mean, the Matthew Boyden one, I think maybe a little underrated how good he was for them last year. [01:09:36] Nate: Yeah. Yeah, very much so. [01:09:38] ben: All right. Uh, last piece of news I wanna talk about it is we're recording on Jackie Robinson Day, Nathan. [01:09:43] Nate: yeah, [01:09:44] ben: Everybody's wearing 42 today. Um, and, and I don't, like, we have nothing. I I have nothing to add to the Jackie Robinson discourse. Uh, you know, what am I gonna say? But I do always love pulling up his baseball reference or FanGraphs page, um, [01:10:00] because it is just shocking. He was in the major leagues from age 26 to 37, and in that timeframe he put up essentially 60 F four, uh, hit over 140 home runs, stole 200 bases, um, and had a 1 37 WRC plus. Um, uh, just like an unbelievable player. I, I think it's like obviously him off the field, um, like changed the course of America and, and did a lot of ama, arguably, in my opinion, one of the most important Americans of all time. Um, but because nobody wants to hear me talk about that side of it, I do think it's fun to remember that he was also like. One of the best players in baseball. [01:10:45] Nate: a big part of it, right? Like unfortunately, the reality is the only way it really worked is he had to be better than everybody also. [01:10:55] ben: yeah, [01:10:55] Nate: He had to will the entire country into supporting him by just [01:11:00] continuously, despite all odds, being one of the best players of all time. [01:11:06] ben: yeah, [01:11:06] Nate: Uh, and so yeah, truly incredible. I love the, everyone wears 42. I [01:11:11] ben: yeah. [01:11:11] Nate: just such a clean interesting and like big move, you know, every single game you watch today and any highlights of it forever, all have that number. I, I think it's a really smart way to do it. Um, every, you know, and, and then otherwise the numbers retired. They baseball does a good job [01:11:32] ben: Yeah. [01:11:33] Nate: and, and honoring this. [01:11:34] ben: Um, I think I learned this year that apparently it was, uh, Ken Griffey Jr's idea. Um, he kind of started the conversation of getting everybody to wear 42. I think he had asked Major League baseball for permission to wear that. And then that led to the conversation that now we have where everybody wears it on the same day, which is, of course, like the, the coolest ba one of the best baseball players of all time. Also, um, you know, who gives Jackie [01:12:00] Robinson a lot of credit is responsible for kind of keeping his name, um, on, on the tips of her tongue. So, yeah, very cool. Um, love Jackie Robinson. And, uh, yeah, that's all I gotta say. [01:12:11] Nate: All right. Well, we're going to follow up that important piece of baseball history by [01:12:17] ben: Damn it. [01:12:21] Nate: Oh. no, Ben. Ben. Look, don't look behind you. You are looking particularly seal like today. There's a big, there's a big fin poking out in the waters behind you. Ben. Ben, get up on your surfboard. No. Do you hear that? Yes, Ben. It's the card shark. Oh, no, [01:12:43] ben: I am wearing a gray sweatshirt. I do look quite seal like today. It's hard to argue that. [01:12:49] Nate: I I, it's hungry, [01:12:50] ben: Yeah. [01:12:51] Nate: fortunately I have what we know will s she ate the, the, the card shark. I have with me a fresh pack of 2026 [01:13:00] series one tops baseball cards. And [01:13:03] ben: Wow. [01:13:03] Nate: satiate the card shark by seeing how well you can, uh, remember these players and, and tell us what position they are and what team they play for. So [01:13:14] ben: Right. [01:13:15] Nate: uh, just getting this, this freshy pack here, and I'm gonna say the name of the player you are gonna tell me their position and what team they play for. [01:13:25] ben: Okay. I can do this. [01:13:27] Nate: we'll start with the shiny one. Ellie De la Cruz. [01:13:31] ben: Ooh. Um, short stop for your Cincinnati Reds. [01:13:37] Nate: Look at that. [01:13:38] ben: haven't checked in on Ellie yet this year. Is he having a good start to the year? [01:13:41] Nate: Yeah, he's having a pretty good start, I think still striking out a lot, but, um, he's looking pretty good. It's [01:13:46] ben: I love El. [01:13:47] Nate: yeah, [01:13:48] ben: Just watching him play is so much fun. [01:13:49] Nate: this is a fun next one. O'Neill Cruz. [01:13:53] ben: Oh man. I was just thinking about O'Neill Cruz and he is having a really nice start to the season, but I [01:14:00] don't buy it. Nate. I was looking under the hood and it's, I want him to be good. [01:14:04] Nate: I know it, I mean, he's le he like another one where if it wasn't for Jordan Walker, everyone would be talking about O'Neill Cruz [01:14:11] ben: Yeah. [01:14:12] Nate: he's doing everything right now. Um, but yeah, it's crazy. The, the swing and miss metrics all look basically identical to his near collapse of last, last year. [01:14:21] ben: Yeah. [01:14:22] Nate: I think it's just that approach and then it doesn't, [01:14:26] ben: Yeah. Um, but he is a centerfielder, uh, and I guess a shortstop for your Pittsburgh Pirates. [01:14:32] Nate: There you go. O'Neill Cruz. Okay. Um, Bradley Rodriguez? [01:14:40] ben: Oh, I just watched him. I just watched him on, uh, on my app the other day. What? Ley? Ley. I just saw him. Uh, was he, oh my god, he's a relief [01:15:00] pitcher. Oh my God. I just saw him on TV like last night or the night before. This is so frustrating. Um, met [01:15:12] Nate: Nope. San Diego Padres. [01:15:13] ben: dammit. [01:15:14] Nate: that. He is a pitcher. Bradley. [01:15:16] ben: Yeah, yeah, [01:15:18] Nate: Brendan [01:15:19] ben: I re I remembered him because I was like, that's an interesting name. [01:15:22] Nate: Yeah. Let's stick as G in the middle of Bradley. Um, uh, Brendan Donovan. [01:15:29] ben: Uh, I guess technically a third basement now for the Seattle Mariners. [01:15:35] Nate: There you go. It's a sideways card. He's still a cardinal in [01:15:37] ben: Oh, okay. All right. [01:15:39] Nate: is series one. They'd already printed it [01:15:40] ben: All right. Very cool. [01:15:43] Nate: Yassky. [01:15:44] ben: He is a left fielder, right fielder for your Atlanta Braves. [01:15:51] Nate: That's right. He's another one here that, uh, is depicted in his royals. thought he was gonna have a great year with the Braves. He has struggled so far. [01:15:58] ben: Yeah, [01:16:00] he's a fine, not great player [01:16:02] Nate: yeah. Uh, okay. Jackson Merrill [01:16:07] ben: center fielder Padres. He's had a nice start to the season. [01:16:12] Nate: Yeah, he's good. [01:16:13] ben: He's pretty good. [01:16:16] Nate: Um, a card labeled as cool Crushers. [01:16:21] ben: Ooh. [01:16:22] Nate: you think Tops has selected? Its two players from the same team. [01:16:26] ben: Okay. [01:16:27] Nate: Uh, that they're calling Crushers. [01:16:32] ben: I get no more information. [01:16:34] Nate: Uh, they're both big home run hitters. One of 'em, one of the biggest home run hitters. [01:16:39] ben: Uh, I guess I'll go Aaron, judge and Cody. Be, uh, Giancarlo. Dan. Giancarlo. Dan, [01:16:48] Nate: That's a good guess. It is Kyle Schwarber and Bryce Harper. [01:16:51] ben: uh, [01:16:52] Nate: Cool. Crushers. [01:16:53] ben: are they cool? I think Bryce Harper is many things. He is not [01:17:00] cool. [01:17:00] Nate: Uh, I just got a few more for, for you. You're doing pretty well though here. Um, we've got yu say Kaci. [01:17:08] ben: You say Cocci is? Oh, he's the number two, I guess for, uh, starting pitcher for, uh, uh, the Angels. Jose Soriano really [01:17:19] Nate: Real breakout. [01:17:20] ben: breakout. He's looking. [01:17:21] Nate: it together. [01:17:22] ben: Disgusting [01:17:23] Nate: about the Cardinals trying to trade for [01:17:25] ben: we have. [01:17:27] Nate: they didn't do it. Now look what he's doing. [01:17:29] ben: Yep. [01:17:30] Nate: Listen to us. All right. Uh, Royce Lewis. [01:17:34] ben: Grace Lewis. Oh, we just went down again. Third baseman, twins. Poor guy. [01:17:39] Nate: It's something with the twins. They need a whole new medical staff. They're like top prospect. Uh, Emmanuel Rodriguez is the same thing. He's constantly hurt. Uh, Byron Buxton Royce Lewis. It's, [01:17:49] ben: Yeah. [01:17:49] Nate: there's something in the water up there. [01:17:50] ben: Buck is having a good start to the year. [01:17:53] Nate: Yeah. Um, Ooh, I might have got something nice here. Uh, [01:18:00] Fernando Tiz [01:18:02] ben: Uh, [01:18:02] Nate: Junior. [01:18:03] ben: right. Filter slash second baseman. I don't know if you've read about that, Nate, but they're starting him at second base a couple of times. This, this last week, uh, for your Padres. [01:18:13] Nate: Oh, actually, this is in No. Okay. Yeah, so you're right. This has like a, a little, I think it's a little piece of his jersey in it. So I think I actually got a pretty nice card here. It is a, uh, a Relic card. It's saying, [01:18:30] ben: Look it up. Look [01:18:31] Nate: I'm [01:18:31] ben: it [01:18:31] Nate: it [01:18:32] ben: up. Nay. Look it up. [01:18:34] Nate: Wow. All right. Well, Hamon, you did really good. Um, the only thing you didn't get was Bradley, uh, this is a pretty star-studded pack though. [01:18:43] ben: It really was. I, and to my cred, I, I've heard of Brad Lee, but man, I, I, you know, swinging a miss on that one. [01:18:49] Nate: heard of him, so you at least got, uh, that he was a pitcher. Funny, you had just watched him. Um, all right, well the card shark is stated. Good job, hand bone. And that's gonna [01:19:00] do it for this week's episode. Thank you as always to everyone for listening and making it all the way to the end. We will be back next week. As always, check out all the links to all of our socials and the Patreon and everything else@talkingaboutbirds.com. Shout out to the patrons and the bird scored tweet tweet. We'll be back next week for another episode of the Jordan Walker. Uh, dispatch and until next week, go Cardinals. [01:19:26] ben: Jimmy Crooks. [01:20:00]