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Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan: Missing Mom Murder Trial - Blood Evidence · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:08
Speaker 1: Body Backs with Joseph Scott Morgan. They are not too
0:21
Speaker 1: many things in this world that are more tragic than
0:29
Speaker 1: a motherless child. It's really hard to fathom that for
0:34
Speaker 1: those of us that grew up with a mama. And
0:40
Speaker 1: but and it's hard, I think, for anyone that grew
0:44
Speaker 1: up with that level of normalacy in your world to appreciate,
0:52
Speaker 1: to appreciate what life might hold for these individuals moving
0:58
Speaker 1: forward that no longer have a loving mother, and then
1:03
Speaker 1: to compound that with the absence of a father. Wow,
1:13
Speaker 1: there's so much to learn in this world. There's so
1:16
Speaker 1: many things to experience, so many lessons to be taught.
1:22
Speaker 1: But we have a case that has been in the
1:26
Speaker 1: news now for several years that is finally, after all
1:31
Speaker 1: this time, moving forward, and the case is that of
1:37
Speaker 1: Jennifer Doulos. It's Jennifer Dulos and the tragedy that befell
1:47
Speaker 1: this vibrant mother, mother five and not really knowing what
1:56
Speaker 1: the future of those children is. But in the immediate
1:58
Speaker 1: we don't really know what the future is of the
2:02
Speaker 1: trials that we have at hand. I know this, I
2:05
Speaker 1: know that foud Is Dulos, her former husband, is no
2:11
Speaker 1: longer in the picture because he took his life and
2:15
Speaker 1: they are no more. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan, and this
2:21
Speaker 1: is body I think, Dave. Some of the great memories
2:33
Speaker 1: I have from childhood actually stemmed from nightmares and the
2:37
Speaker 1: nightmares that I had after I shook myself awake. As
2:42
Speaker 1: a small child. I used to always have a nightmare
2:45
Speaker 1: involving falling, and I even fell out of out of
2:49
Speaker 1: my bed as a young child and struck the floor
2:53
Speaker 1: and fractured my collar bone, and I kind of, without
2:57
Speaker 1: verbalizing it, walked around, according to my mother for a
3:03
Speaker 1: couple of days just with my right arm, just kind
3:05
Speaker 1: of hanging and not using it. But through all of
3:09
Speaker 1: those nightmares that I went through as a child, my
3:14
Speaker 1: mother was there to comfort me. That's not the case
3:18
Speaker 1: with the Dula's children. That that part, as hard as
3:23
Speaker 1: that is to swallow, that part of their life is
3:25
Speaker 1: gone literally literally and they don't have a father to
3:30
Speaker 1: assuage any kind of fears or terrors that they might
3:33
Speaker 1: have at night. As a matter of fact, I think
3:35
Speaker 1: that when they look back in the rearview mirror, they're
3:37
Speaker 1: going to look back and they will see terror in there.
3:41
Speaker 1: In there the rearview mirror going back with this family.
3:45
Speaker 1: I don't know how any family recovers from this kind
3:48
Speaker 1: of trauma.
3:48
Speaker 2: You know, we've covered so many stories over the years
3:51
Speaker 2: that ended up in death, that started with a marriage
3:55
Speaker 2: that fell apart, did it cheating and in the case
4:01
Speaker 2: of well, the trial of Michelle Treconis, she was the
4:04
Speaker 2: other woman. But to back up to find out how
4:06
Speaker 2: we got here, you mentioned five children. Jennifer Dulo's and
4:11
Speaker 2: Fotus Dulo's were married, they had five children. To help
4:16
Speaker 2: along with this, they hired nanny Lauren Almida. I'm mentioning
4:20
Speaker 2: her now because as we go through this from here
4:24
Speaker 2: on out, Lauren Almida is the source of a lot
4:28
Speaker 2: of information that we get about the inner workings of
4:30
Speaker 2: the family dynamic.
4:32
Speaker 3: And Lauren Almida.
4:34
Speaker 2: At thirty two years old, has been with these children
4:37
Speaker 2: for thirteen years pretty much, and she is or twelve
4:41
Speaker 2: years and she's still with them, Joe, as we talk
4:45
Speaker 2: about all of this. Lauren Almida began as a babysitter
4:50
Speaker 2: for the Dulo's children when she was in college. She
4:52
Speaker 2: and her sister were part time nanny babysitter of slash
4:56
Speaker 2: nanny and when she got out of college, Jennifer Dulos
4:59
Speaker 2: asked her to remain on as the nanny, and she
5:01
Speaker 2: did so. When I think about the five children of
5:04
Speaker 2: Jennifer and Potus Doulos, I think, thank God for Lauren Elmina.
5:10
Speaker 1: I don't think that. I don't think that we would
5:14
Speaker 1: we would have the level of info that we have
5:19
Speaker 1: right now if it wasn't for Lauren. The trial, as
5:25
Speaker 1: we're taping, this is actually going on, and I was
5:29
Speaker 1: a bore witness to to her testimony, and it was powerful.
5:35
Speaker 1: I think that it was powerful, Dave, because it's God,
5:40
Speaker 1: there's not a it sounds I know, this sounds horribly salacious,
5:44
Speaker 1: but to have her on the stand was kind of voyeuristic,
5:48
Speaker 1: I think, relative to the deal of family life, lives
5:53
Speaker 1: and and kind of the inner workings. Just the legit.
5:57
Speaker 1: I can't imagine. This is the thing that struck me,
5:59
Speaker 1: the justics of moving five kids around to all of
6:03
Speaker 1: their activities in school and all this stuff. And this
6:06
Speaker 1: became a point of contention because Foudus actually got rather
6:14
Speaker 1: belligerent and argumentative and threatening according to Jennifer, and she
6:22
Speaker 1: was accused of making things more difficult than they should
6:25
Speaker 1: be because she had scheduled activities for the kids on Saturdays. Well,
6:30
Speaker 1: I gotta tell you, you know, that's what happens. I
6:33
Speaker 1: mean kids, kids have soccer, they have danced, they I mean,
6:37
Speaker 1: you name it. And certainly my family's been involved in
6:39
Speaker 1: all of it. And it it's hectic. And then you
6:42
Speaker 1: put that extra pressure of a separation that's going on,
6:47
Speaker 1: and particularly a separation that is involving infidelity. Oh my god,
6:52
Speaker 1: you talk about I adding spice.
6:54
Speaker 2: To get right down to it. Jennifer Dulos and Photos Doulos.
6:59
Speaker 2: When I'm vacation with the children, all five children in
7:03
Speaker 2: the March of twenty seventeen, they spent one week out
7:08
Speaker 2: in Aspen, Colorado, doing snow skiing, and they spent the
7:11
Speaker 2: second week in Florida snow you know, water skiing, and
7:16
Speaker 2: it was a fantastic journey for a vacation. But it
7:22
Speaker 2: was during that time, in March of twenty seventeen, that
7:24
Speaker 2: Jennifer Dulos went to Lauren al Mighta, the children's nanny,
7:27
Speaker 2: and said, I believe Potus is cheating on me, and
7:30
Speaker 2: I have the proof. And Lauren al might have thought
7:33
Speaker 2: a lot of Photus, She thought a lot of him
7:35
Speaker 2: as a man. She had not seen different sides of
7:37
Speaker 2: him at that point, but she was just shocked. But
7:40
Speaker 2: that's where everything changed in the Dulo's family. That led
7:43
Speaker 2: to what we're talking about today. So think March twenty seventeen.
7:47
Speaker 2: May of twenty nineteen, Jennifer Dulos and Photus Dulos were separated.
7:53
Speaker 2: Jennifer Dulos was living had the five children with her
7:56
Speaker 2: and they had rented a house. Potus Dulos that Jennifer
8:01
Speaker 2: thought he was having an affair with Michelle Traconis actually
8:05
Speaker 2: was living with Fotus Dulos in May of twenty nineteen,
8:10
Speaker 2: So Jennifer was right in her suspicions. Now, what happened
8:18
Speaker 2: on the day that Jennifer Dulos went missing, And you
8:21
Speaker 2: mentioned the getting the children from here to there in
8:24
Speaker 2: different things and meetings, and it was a busy schedule,
8:27
Speaker 2: and it was busy enough that people kind of knew
8:31
Speaker 2: what her schedule was. Her friends, Laura Almida, the nanny,
8:34
Speaker 2: knew Jennifer Dulo's schedule during the day because of the
8:37
Speaker 2: five children that needed to be, you know, here and there.
8:40
Speaker 2: So on this particular day, Jennifer Dulos dropped the children
8:45
Speaker 2: off at school, went back to the house and that's it.
8:50
Speaker 2: That is all we know based on the evidence we
8:56
Speaker 2: have right this minute. She disappeared that morning. She didn't
9:01
Speaker 2: show up at any of her planned appointments. Later that day,
9:05
Speaker 2: Lauren Almita, the nanny, picked the children up and kept moving.
9:09
Speaker 2: She had texted because they had a journey planned. They
9:12
Speaker 2: had to go to New York, had to go traveling
9:14
Speaker 2: to a number of different places, and Lauren had texted
9:16
Speaker 2: Jennifer about one thing came It was an iPad. One
9:20
Speaker 2: of the children was not allowed to use their iPad
9:22
Speaker 2: for Instagram because they had gotten on restriction over it.
9:26
Speaker 2: And the nanny was saying, can we take this? You know,
9:29
Speaker 2: I know it's been taken, but it's a long drive
9:31
Speaker 2: and when.
9:31
Speaker 1: And I think that if I remember correctly, they couldn't
9:34
Speaker 1: find the child's iPad and they were going to have
9:38
Speaker 1: to utilize according to Lowe, Sorry, Lauren used the family
9:42
Speaker 1: iPad and that was her thing. She wanted to know
9:44
Speaker 1: if they could bring that with them because.
9:48
Speaker 2: They right, And when she didn't get a reply, it
9:51
Speaker 2: was funny because on the stand, one of those little things,
9:55
Speaker 2: a little slice of life that we all have gone through.
9:59
Speaker 2: But on the stand, Lauren Almida, you know, they asked her, well,
10:02
Speaker 2: what did you do?
10:03
Speaker 1: Well?
10:03
Speaker 2: When I didn't hear back from her, I made the decision.
10:05
Speaker 2: It was a long drive. We took the family iPad. Anyway,
10:09
Speaker 2: that was the beginning of realizing that something's not quite right.
10:13
Speaker 2: Jennifer wasn't replying to text messages, couldn't get her on
10:15
Speaker 2: the phone, and so by that evening when nobody had
10:19
Speaker 2: heard from her, and by then Lauren had talked with
10:21
Speaker 2: you know, Jennifer's extended family and friends, and it was
10:24
Speaker 2: Laura Almia that called police and said, I don't know
10:27
Speaker 2: where she is. And so as police came to investigate,
10:32
Speaker 2: there were a number of red flags fairly early on
10:36
Speaker 2: in their investigation. One was the fact that there was
10:40
Speaker 2: a vehicle in the garage and there was one missing.
10:49
Speaker 2: Michelle wasn't there, but her purse was there, her keys
10:52
Speaker 2: were there, items that if she was going somewhere she
10:54
Speaker 2: would normally have.
10:56
Speaker 3: Where did she leave?
10:57
Speaker 1: She left a cup of tea too, Yes, I think
10:59
Speaker 1: that she commonly carried with her to drink, right, Yeah,
11:03
Speaker 1: why would you leave a location like this? And you know, look,
11:09
Speaker 1: we look for patterns and investigations and things. If anybody
11:12
Speaker 1: deviates from a norm, we are I think as investigators
11:19
Speaker 1: we are cynical. We assume, you know, because we're requested
11:23
Speaker 1: out at something like this, you know, we assume that
11:25
Speaker 1: the worst has happened most of the time, and we
11:27
Speaker 1: start to dig into those spots. It goes back to
11:30
Speaker 1: the old adage, you know where. And they didn't know
11:34
Speaker 1: at this time if this was a death or not.
11:36
Speaker 1: But you know, we when we work deaths as death investigators,
11:40
Speaker 1: we assume that every death is a homicide until proven otherwise.
11:45
Speaker 1: And so when you start to see as an investigator,
11:48
Speaker 1: and look, Lauren would have truly had the insight into this. Look,
11:52
Speaker 1: you know, she's saying she would have never have left
11:54
Speaker 1: the house without these items, and why are they here?
11:58
Speaker 1: And she's not here, and this other vehicle is not here.
12:02
Speaker 1: I think it was her suburban right that was actually missing.
12:05
Speaker 1: But the land rover, yeah, range rover was there and
12:11
Speaker 1: parked in the garage.
12:13
Speaker 2: And that's where there were just red flags. Like I said, now,
12:17
Speaker 2: the first officer arrives on the scene, and this is
12:19
Speaker 2: where Joseph Scott Morgan, you got a lot of plaining
12:24
Speaker 2: to do. Boy, because I'm gonna tell you right off
12:26
Speaker 2: the bat when the first officer is on scene to
12:31
Speaker 2: get you up to speed. Jennifer Dillos has not been
12:33
Speaker 2: seen since she dropped the children off early that morning.
12:36
Speaker 2: She missed all of her appointments. Nobody that normally has
12:40
Speaker 2: contact with her has had contact. And now the police
12:43
Speaker 2: officer rives and he starts looking around. Now, there was
12:46
Speaker 2: something that Lauren Almita noticed in the kitchen. And she
12:51
Speaker 2: had the day before placed a number of paper towels
12:55
Speaker 2: in a cabinet in the kitchen, and when she saw
12:58
Speaker 2: the tea she was cleaning up, had brought subway home
13:01
Speaker 2: for the children to eat because they had the long
13:03
Speaker 2: drive to New York, and so she was just looking
13:05
Speaker 2: for basic stuff to clean up before they left, and
13:07
Speaker 2: realized that she had loaded like ten paper towels in
13:10
Speaker 2: this cabinet and they were gone.
13:11
Speaker 3: They were like two left.
13:12
Speaker 1: There were two I think it was actually twelve, and
13:15
Speaker 1: there were ten missing missing. That's the thing that just
13:18
Speaker 1: a gross I guess that's what that is. I don't know.
13:20
Speaker 3: It's like too many paper towels in it.
13:23
Speaker 1: I know, I know, And I'm going to get to
13:25
Speaker 1: that from a forensics perspective, because that's got that has
13:29
Speaker 1: got that that that's a big tail. You know, when
13:35
Speaker 1: you begin to think about this person, Lauren, who has
13:39
Speaker 1: you know, like we've established it, if she's got this
13:42
Speaker 1: this inside look at what's going on within this family
13:46
Speaker 1: dynamic and down to you mentioned those those little slices
13:51
Speaker 1: of life, and the devil is in the details. The
13:53
Speaker 1: explanation is actually in the details because within this environment,
13:59
Speaker 1: Within this environment, Lauren understood schedules, she understood logistics, she
14:06
Speaker 1: understood it sounds like a military operation. She understood planning.
14:11
Speaker 1: She understood what it took for this family to live
14:17
Speaker 1: the life that they were living. She understood the stressors.
14:21
Speaker 1: And the one big thing that she understood is that
14:25
Speaker 1: Jennifer Doulos would never ever abandon the church. I think
14:48
Speaker 1: the older I've gotten in more clumsy I've gotten days.
14:52
Speaker 1: It seems like there is not a day that goes
14:55
Speaker 1: by in my life. Now they don't spill something. And
15:00
Speaker 1: by the way, I meant to tell you this, I'm
15:02
Speaker 1: am my refrigerator here at home. I've got an ice maker.
15:10
Speaker 1: I think that it's possessed because every time I open
15:12
Speaker 1: the door to the freezer ice falls out that's caught
15:17
Speaker 1: in the tube, and I can't get the problem resolved,
15:20
Speaker 1: and of course that winds up, you know, my wife
15:24
Speaker 1: Kim saying what's going on, And it's always the same thing.
15:27
Speaker 1: The ice fell out of the freezer, you know, And
15:29
Speaker 1: there I am. I'm down on my hands and knees
15:30
Speaker 1: trying to pick up the ice because We've got these
15:33
Speaker 1: hardwood floors in the kitchen and I'm worried about stains
15:36
Speaker 1: and all that stuff on them and are slipping. I
15:42
Speaker 1: have to find the ice, but David, I don't. And
15:45
Speaker 1: the one thing I'm always asking my wife, And of
15:46
Speaker 1: course my wife, God bless her, she Gimmy always knows
15:50
Speaker 1: what supplies are on hand, and she knows where the
15:54
Speaker 1: paper towels are, and I'm always looking for them. And
15:58
Speaker 1: I think it's because I'm the chief centers. I'm the
16:00
Speaker 1: one that's using all of them all the time, and
16:02
Speaker 1: I expect there to be an innat supply. But when
16:05
Speaker 1: you think about ten rolls of paper towels, how you
16:11
Speaker 1: know you go back and look all these all these
16:15
Speaker 1: paper towel companies, how do they sell paper towels? Well?
16:18
Speaker 1: They uh, you know, they they tell us how absorbent
16:21
Speaker 1: they are. You know what what you can clean up
16:24
Speaker 1: and man those tests that they show on TV, Lord
16:27
Speaker 1: have mercy. It looks like when they take their brand
16:29
Speaker 1: and they wipe it across the surface, they want you
16:32
Speaker 1: to think you can do surgery on that spot without
16:35
Speaker 1: applying anything else. All it takes is one of their
16:37
Speaker 1: paper towels. And of course we know that that's not the reality.
16:40
Speaker 1: There's always some residual amount that's left behind, and I
16:44
Speaker 1: think that that's key in Jennifer Dulos's case.
16:49
Speaker 2: Dave Well, when the first police officer shows up, he
16:53
Speaker 2: comes in and there were two officers. One had a bodycam,
16:58
Speaker 2: one didn't. The first officer on the scene Lieutenant Aaron Latreau,
17:02
Speaker 2: and he explains what he is seeing as he walks through.
17:06
Speaker 2: He walked into the garage. He went through the entire house.
17:08
Speaker 2: But I want to go to the garage because that
17:11
Speaker 2: was where the range rover is there. But her Chevy
17:14
Speaker 2: Suburban is not talking about Jennifer Doulo. Chevy Suburban is
17:17
Speaker 2: not in the garage, and that was the card they
17:20
Speaker 2: would have expected her to normally drive, and.
17:23
Speaker 1: She's she's hauling around an army of kids.
17:26
Speaker 2: Right, and so yeah, as the officer arrives on scene,
17:29
Speaker 2: he and the other officer, officer Black, who has the
17:32
Speaker 2: body cam, we actually have a chance to watch this.
17:35
Speaker 2: The body cam footage lasts about twenty minutes, and in
17:38
Speaker 2: it you actually see the garage and you see.
17:42
Speaker 3: Things that they really stand out.
17:45
Speaker 2: Joe, and you showed me some of the pictures and
17:49
Speaker 2: explain what they meant, because while Latreau, the officer didn't
17:54
Speaker 2: know exactly what, he could not say, well, I see
17:57
Speaker 2: blood in here, he said, I see things that could
18:00
Speaker 2: be might be are right, And one of the things
18:04
Speaker 2: that was suggested early on in the garage and Latreau
18:08
Speaker 2: he said on the on the tape or during testamon
18:12
Speaker 2: I said, while we waited, I looked at the vehicle.
18:15
Speaker 2: I noticed that there was what appeared to be red
18:19
Speaker 2: blood on the front of that vehicle. There was a
18:26
Speaker 2: red mark on the grill area. It drew his attention
18:30
Speaker 2: because it didn't match the color of the grill, didn't
18:33
Speaker 2: match the color of the vehicle. There was no damage
18:36
Speaker 2: to the vehicle that he could see, and he and
18:41
Speaker 2: the other officer discussed maybe hit a deer. Maybe they
18:46
Speaker 2: hit it, you know, maybe the driver hit a deer,
18:48
Speaker 2: but there were no there was no hair, there was
18:50
Speaker 2: nothing in no indication that a deer was hit. So
18:52
Speaker 2: they have what they both believed to be blood on
18:56
Speaker 2: the vehicle and other places as well, and you cannot
19:02
Speaker 2: say it. I don't know how this works. I mean,
19:03
Speaker 2: do you guys not have like a winking and nod
19:05
Speaker 2: to one another when you're on scene. You know it's blood,
19:08
Speaker 2: but you can't say it's blood. You have to be
19:10
Speaker 2: vague about.
19:11
Speaker 1: I say it. Yeah, I'm so glad you brought this
19:13
Speaker 1: up because I know a lot of people have questions
19:15
Speaker 1: about this. I have people that are asked me that
19:17
Speaker 1: ask me this question all the time. We will couch,
19:21
Speaker 1: we being investigators, we will couch in our reports prior
19:26
Speaker 1: to presumptive testing being conducted at a scene. We will
19:31
Speaker 1: say things like, let me see, how can I phrase it?
19:35
Speaker 1: This is a blood like substance. You're in a report,
19:39
Speaker 1: you'll hear that or see it, and then you'll see
19:43
Speaker 1: a red substance or a red dried substance. And you'd
19:50
Speaker 1: never want to paint yourself into a corner because let
19:53
Speaker 1: me tell you how this happens. If there's not a
19:55
Speaker 1: presumptive test that takes place, and I'll explain that in
19:58
Speaker 1: just a second. And you're a police officer, you write
20:00
Speaker 1: in your report that that is blood. When they get
20:04
Speaker 1: you on the stand, if that's in your official report,
20:07
Speaker 1: the defense attorney is going to rip you to shreds.
20:09
Speaker 1: And this is the way the conversation is going to go.
20:12
Speaker 1: They say, you know, gee, investigator Morgan, I noticed here
20:16
Speaker 1: that you said that you found blood staining the floor,
20:20
Speaker 1: or you found blood staining the side of the vehicle.
20:23
Speaker 1: I was wondering, are you a zerologist, no, sir, Well
20:31
Speaker 1: are you know? Are you trace evidence a specialist? No, sir?
20:36
Speaker 1: Are you a physician? Yeah, you must be a physician.
20:38
Speaker 1: Tell us where did you go to medical school? And
20:41
Speaker 1: you see what they're doing here. That's why we frame
20:44
Speaker 1: things this way, Dave, even in forensics, you know, unless
20:47
Speaker 1: we can confirm it, because what they're doing is when
20:50
Speaker 1: the defense says this, and look, you know, when we
20:52
Speaker 1: get up on the stand as investigators and experts, they
20:55
Speaker 1: ask us to read off the list. They say, you know,
20:58
Speaker 1: they ask us what all our credentials are are how
21:00
Speaker 1: many other times you've been qualified as an expert? And
21:03
Speaker 1: that validates you. Well, all the defense has to do.
21:06
Speaker 1: They can validate you all they want to in void Deer,
21:09
Speaker 1: But all the defense has to do is to look
21:13
Speaker 1: and say, oh, so you didn't go to medical school,
21:16
Speaker 1: so you're not actually a blood expert, now are you.
21:21
Speaker 1: And by the way, you're calling this blood and you
21:23
Speaker 1: didn't even confirm that it was blood. Let me ask
21:25
Speaker 1: you something, can russ look like blood under certain circum
21:30
Speaker 1: That's a yes or no question, Investigator Morgan, Yes it can.
21:33
Speaker 1: Can can dry chocolate look like blood? Well? Yes or no?
21:39
Speaker 1: It's simple yes or nokay. Aren't you capable in What
21:41
Speaker 1: they're saying by doing that is that they're diminishing you
21:45
Speaker 1: in the eyes of the jury. They're trying to make
21:47
Speaker 1: you look like a fool. And trust me, chief among sinners,
21:50
Speaker 1: I've looked like a fool up on the stand. You
21:52
Speaker 1: learn these lessons. So when the officers are looking at
21:55
Speaker 1: this and they have to do an official report, they
21:58
Speaker 1: cannot say that this is definitively blood. But yeah, we
22:03
Speaker 1: do wink and nod about it, But that doesn't mean
22:05
Speaker 1: that we're going to include it an official report until
22:09
Speaker 1: we get somebody out there that can do a presumptive test,
22:12
Speaker 1: and the most probably the one that people are most
22:16
Speaker 1: familiar with, is something called the Castle Meyer test. That's
22:19
Speaker 1: been around for years and years. So if you have
22:21
Speaker 1: an area that you suspect is blood, you can essentially
22:25
Speaker 1: treat that area and make an application there and you'd
22:28
Speaker 1: simply look at it. It's what's called a qualifying test.
22:32
Speaker 1: You can say, yes, definitively, this is blood. I can't
22:36
Speaker 1: say necessarily whose blood it is, but I can say
22:40
Speaker 1: this is blood at that point in time. And then
22:42
Speaker 1: there's like multiple different steps that you go through. You
22:45
Speaker 1: can go all the way to blood typing and take
22:47
Speaker 1: that all the way out to DNA, which eventually happens
22:50
Speaker 1: in this case. But if you're very very careful.
22:53
Speaker 2: Here the officer notices things that he believes could be blood,
22:57
Speaker 2: and what else did they find Joe? Forensically speaking, what
23:03
Speaker 2: else did the officer observe?
23:05
Speaker 1: Well, obviously you have these red stains that are about
23:09
Speaker 1: and these are and this is this is the first
23:13
Speaker 1: blush of the officer. This is before the let's see
23:19
Speaker 1: how can I frame this? This is before the actual
23:22
Speaker 1: forensic scientists get out there to do their thing and
23:25
Speaker 1: see USI before they get out there. And look, if
23:28
Speaker 1: I've if I'm a police officer and I've been tasked
23:33
Speaker 1: with going into a house, maybe on a welfare check,
23:35
Speaker 1: you know you're looking for a missing person. Look, that's
23:37
Speaker 1: that's what this is about at this point in time.
23:39
Speaker 1: In this case, you've got a missing mother out there.
23:42
Speaker 1: You want to find her. And if you take a
23:43
Speaker 1: look a gander around the house, if you will, you
23:49
Speaker 1: look around, If you've got what appears to be blood,
23:52
Speaker 1: you know that something dynamic happened there. And when you
24:00
Speaker 1: see the patterns that are left behind. I think that
24:03
Speaker 1: one of the one of the real tremendous pieces of
24:09
Speaker 1: evidence here that they were able to kind of identify.
24:12
Speaker 1: There was actually a blood spot on a faucet, and
24:18
Speaker 1: I think that's in the kitchen if I'm not mistaken.
24:21
Speaker 1: And why would there be blood on facet Well? Do
24:24
Speaker 1: people just bleed in homes? Yeah, people bleed all the
24:27
Speaker 1: time in homes. The trick is you have to determine
24:30
Speaker 1: whose blood is that, and who you know who who
24:34
Speaker 1: does it actually track back to. But here here's the thing, David,
24:39
Speaker 1: This is specifically what we were talking about earlier. You
24:42
Speaker 1: can have blood like contact traced blood where if you
24:46
Speaker 1: if you get blood on your hand, anybody that's ever
24:48
Speaker 1: had blood issuing from your body. I'll give you an example.
24:52
Speaker 2: I get.
24:53
Speaker 1: I get bloody noses all the time, all right, and
24:56
Speaker 1: particularly this time of year, once really cold out, dry air,
24:59
Speaker 1: and and I might wake up in the middle of
25:01
Speaker 1: the night my nose is bleeding and I've got blood,
25:04
Speaker 1: you know, on my pillow. Well, that's not a real
25:06
Speaker 1: dynamic deposition of blood. That's a transfer, and so it'll
25:11
Speaker 1: be smeared. The droplets will have no evidence of real
25:15
Speaker 1: velocity to it. But in Jennifer's case, there is an
25:22
Speaker 1: image that was put up by Daily Mail. And when
25:28
Speaker 1: Daily Mail put that image up, I had this light
25:32
Speaker 1: bulb that went off and I knew that something horrific
25:35
Speaker 1: had happened in that garage. And this is why there
25:38
Speaker 1: are two droplets that are on the floor, and these
25:41
Speaker 1: are dynamic droplets. That means that there is movement with them.
25:44
Speaker 1: If you will just think about almost like a tear
25:48
Speaker 1: drop shape. When you think about a tear drop kind
25:50
Speaker 1: of how it falls, free falls, you know, like this,
25:53
Speaker 1: and you get this image. I think it's more art
25:56
Speaker 1: than it is science. But it's because liquid falls through
25:59
Speaker 1: the air in a perfect sphere. I don't know if
26:01
Speaker 1: people realize that blood in particular does when it falls.
26:04
Speaker 1: It's falling in a perfect sphere before it strikes the ground,
26:08
Speaker 1: and it makes this pattern. But with this, it's got
26:11
Speaker 1: a tear drop pattern. And there's two blood droplets that
26:16
Speaker 1: are lying parallel to one another. The more narrow end
26:21
Speaker 1: of the blood droplet gives you the indication of movement.
26:24
Speaker 1: It's almost like you have got an arrow pointing in
26:29
Speaker 1: the direction of which the blood was flying. And Dave
26:33
Speaker 1: on the floor of that garage, there were two blood
26:38
Speaker 1: droplets and they are pointing in one particular direction. To me,
26:43
Speaker 1: that's an indication of violence because those blood droplets are
26:49
Speaker 1: what we would classify as low velocity blood spatter patterns.
26:54
Speaker 1: And you know, and the way we classify these patterns
26:59
Speaker 1: is that low velocity is like hands feet. Just imagine
27:05
Speaker 1: how much energy could you generate with your bare hands
27:09
Speaker 1: if you're striking somebody. Okay, you could do it with
27:15
Speaker 1: a knife that would be cast off. Okay, medium velocity,
27:21
Speaker 1: maybe a bat you generate our lead pipe, you generate
27:26
Speaker 1: that kind of velocity, and high velocity the particulate bits
27:30
Speaker 1: of blood they are left behind. That's going to happen
27:33
Speaker 1: with a firearm. Okay, it almost becomes like an aspirit.
27:37
Speaker 1: It's very tiny, so that this is low velocity that
27:42
Speaker 1: you're seeing in this image. And Dave, I think, I
27:45
Speaker 1: think that something violent happened to Jennifer Doulas on the
27:50
Speaker 1: floor of that garage, and something generated that blood and
27:57
Speaker 1: deposited it on the floor, perhaps adjacent to where she
28:02
Speaker 1: had been laying. If you figured that the human body
28:22
Speaker 1: holds I don't know, and a lot of it's deepended
28:25
Speaker 1: upon the size, your size, and the age development male
28:31
Speaker 1: versus female, but roughly perhaps just under two gallons of blood.
28:37
Speaker 1: If if you are traumatized and your heart continues to beat,
28:45
Speaker 1: you're going to have a huge amount of deposition on
28:52
Speaker 1: whatever surface you're lying upon or standing upon. Here here's
28:57
Speaker 1: the thing when if you sustain a head strike, the
29:03
Speaker 1: head is probably the most vascular area. It is the
29:06
Speaker 1: most vascular area in the human body. That's why you know,
29:09
Speaker 1: like our if we popped in the mouth and get
29:11
Speaker 1: a bloody lip or our nose, it seems like it
29:13
Speaker 1: won't quit bleeding. And for anybody out there that's ever
29:16
Speaker 1: had blood impact to your head and you've you know,
29:18
Speaker 1: down here in the South, they uh, you know, mc
29:20
Speaker 1: granny would say, or you're gonna bust your head wide open.
29:23
Speaker 1: And if you split your head open, you bleed profusely.
29:27
Speaker 1: It doesn't necessarily mean that it's a lethal trauma. But
29:30
Speaker 1: your head is so vascular. If you don't stem that bleeding,
29:34
Speaker 1: you're gonna bleed all over the place.
29:37
Speaker 2: But in the case of what they found in the garage, Joe, yeah,
29:41
Speaker 2: can you tell how long the blood has been there?
29:45
Speaker 3: Yeah?
29:45
Speaker 1: You can. And one of the fascinating things about blood
29:49
Speaker 1: is that when you first come upon it, if you
29:52
Speaker 1: have a wet sample out there, and particularly when you
29:57
Speaker 1: see a big pool of blood, one of the fact
30:00
Speaker 1: sasty things that happens is this, before the blood actually dries,
30:04
Speaker 1: you'll begin to see the blood and the serum separate
30:09
Speaker 1: from one another, and so you'll have on one side.
30:12
Speaker 1: You know, blood is not a it is a multi
30:18
Speaker 1: component substance. So you know you've got a lot of
30:23
Speaker 1: ingredients that go into blood. You've got RBC's red blood cells,
30:27
Speaker 1: you got white blood cells, you got plasma, and so
30:33
Speaker 1: you know you've got all of these elements of blood,
30:35
Speaker 1: but the serum will actually separate off of the blood.
30:38
Speaker 1: So you'll have this kind of clear yellowish liquid on
30:41
Speaker 1: one side of a pool of blood, and then you'll
30:42
Speaker 1: have what looks like the RBC's have migrated to one side.
30:48
Speaker 1: You see that that's generally with like a really big grouping,
30:51
Speaker 1: and that takes that that would take a couple of
30:54
Speaker 1: hours for that to actually begin to occur. But as
30:57
Speaker 1: the blood dries it it takes on a specific appearance
31:01
Speaker 1: deepended upon how long it's been out all right.
31:03
Speaker 2: Now, the reason we're talking about Jennifer Dulo's disappearance and
31:06
Speaker 2: the trial of Michelle traconis because they believed that they,
31:11
Speaker 2: being officials, believed that there was enough evidence to prove
31:16
Speaker 2: that Jennifer Dulos died and that voters that they off.
31:24
Speaker 2: They believed that Votus Dullos planned it all out, rode
31:30
Speaker 2: his bike to Jennifer Dulas's home, waited light and wait
31:34
Speaker 2: in her garage, beat her to death at her home,
31:38
Speaker 2: and then loaded her body, either dead or dying, into
31:42
Speaker 2: her suburban. Drove the suburban a couple of miles away
31:46
Speaker 2: near a lake, where he then transferred her body from
31:53
Speaker 2: the suburban into a truck he borrowed without permission from
31:57
Speaker 2: a coworker or at one of his employees rather and
32:00
Speaker 2: then through the bike in the back of the truck.
32:02
Speaker 2: He'd put the bike that he rode to Jennifer Dulo's house,
32:05
Speaker 2: he put it in the suburban with her body. He
32:07
Speaker 2: transfers her body and the bike leaves the suburban park
32:11
Speaker 2: to abandoned. He then drives in the truck, the pickup truck,
32:16
Speaker 2: to wherever it is that he is going to dispose
32:18
Speaker 2: of Jennifer Dulo's body. And I have to say that
32:22
Speaker 2: we have not located her body at this point, and
32:25
Speaker 2: so police are utilizing They're getting information from the house,
32:30
Speaker 2: from the garage, the ten rolls of unaccounted for paper towels.
32:36
Speaker 2: They also have been able to look at the seat
32:41
Speaker 2: in the truck that he borrowed without permission from an employee.
32:46
Speaker 2: And forensically speaking, Joe, I'm asking, can they they being investigators?
32:52
Speaker 2: They're using everything from you know, the blood testing in
32:54
Speaker 2: all these different areas, but they're also investigators have been
32:57
Speaker 2: able to track his movements that a photos Dulos using
33:01
Speaker 2: cameras all around town, security cameras and things like that.
33:04
Speaker 2: And that's why Michelle Traconas is on trial because later
33:07
Speaker 2: in the day, the day that Michelle that Jennifer Dulos
33:10
Speaker 2: goes missing, Dula, Photus Dulos and Michelle Traconis are seen
33:17
Speaker 2: driving around town dropping off bags of trash in public
33:22
Speaker 2: trash cans, receptacles, and as police were investigating, they went
33:27
Speaker 2: and found some of these trash bags and determined that
33:30
Speaker 2: they had Jennifer Dulo's DNA. I'm speed dialing this because
33:34
Speaker 2: that's what the that's what police say happened, and that's
33:37
Speaker 2: what they're trying to prove in court that Michelle Traconas
33:40
Speaker 2: was She's seen on video with Photus Dulos dropping these
33:44
Speaker 2: bags of trash. But how are they going to prove
33:48
Speaker 2: Joe that it was Potus Dulos that did the killing
33:51
Speaker 2: in the garage, that it was Photos Dulos that transported
33:54
Speaker 2: her body, that it was Photos.
33:55
Speaker 3: I mean, was it not his employee? What if his.
33:58
Speaker 2: Employee, who by the ways Dolos had had a haircut,
34:02
Speaker 2: had shaped had similar to the employee who owned the
34:05
Speaker 2: truck that he borrowed. I mean, could is it not
34:08
Speaker 2: possible that an employee if Photostlas had a thing for Jennifer,
34:11
Speaker 2: and he went and killed her.
34:13
Speaker 1: And I think that if if photos Dulos, who has
34:18
Speaker 1: deprived us of his presence now in his life, you know,
34:23
Speaker 1: he that if if we were having his trial, I
34:27
Speaker 1: think that that's one of the points that would be argued.
34:30
Speaker 1: What you know, they they arrested Dulo's foid us, Yes, and.
34:36
Speaker 3: He committed suicide the day after he was charged with
34:39
Speaker 3: their murder.
34:40
Speaker 1: He did. And you know, one of the things that's
34:42
Speaker 1: really fascinating, Dave, that you don't see a lot. They
34:45
Speaker 1: consulted the medical examiner to render an opinion about this,
34:51
Speaker 1: and it was fascinating. And and here here's essentially what
34:57
Speaker 1: the medical examiner came up with. Keep in mind, this
35:01
Speaker 1: is absent a.
35:02
Speaker 3: Body, so something happens where they consult.
35:05
Speaker 1: No, they do, they will, but it's really hard for
35:09
Speaker 1: an me to make a determination. But my god, Dave,
35:12
Speaker 1: they were so specific. This is what they actually said
35:16
Speaker 1: the medical examiner. Now this is the medical examiner stating
35:20
Speaker 1: this categorize the incident involving Jennifer as homicidal violence and
35:27
Speaker 1: also stated that would likely include some combination of traumatic
35:34
Speaker 1: blunt force trauma or blunt force injuries such as you're
35:39
Speaker 1: ready for this bludgeoning, beating, and or sharp force injuries
35:45
Speaker 1: such as stabbing or slashing. So that without that, how
35:50
Speaker 1: do you draw that conclusion? I go back to the
35:53
Speaker 1: blood deposition. If if you're talking about dynamic blood deposition,
36:02
Speaker 1: the only thing that would be, in my estimation, the
36:06
Speaker 1: only thing that the emmy could draw upon unless they
36:10
Speaker 1: have evidence of how much are what volume of blood
36:16
Speaker 1: was spilled on the scene and then attempted to be
36:20
Speaker 1: have been cleaned up? Because you remember I talked about
36:23
Speaker 1: the volume of blood that we carry around in our bodies.
36:26
Speaker 1: There's a term, and I may have said this before,
36:29
Speaker 1: but there's a term that's used in forensic pathology that
36:33
Speaker 1: states the volume of blood is in the volume of
36:37
Speaker 1: blood that is deposited at the scene is incompatible with life.
36:42
Speaker 1: So if you show up at a scene and you've
36:44
Speaker 1: got a huge volume of blood at the scene, the
36:47
Speaker 1: medical examiner could opine that if this much of blood
36:52
Speaker 1: is outside of somebody's body, they ain't with us anymore.
36:55
Speaker 3: That makes sense, But how do they know that? Here
36:57
Speaker 3: we got two droplets.
36:59
Speaker 1: I know exactly, So that brings us to this idea
37:03
Speaker 1: that perhaps they have evidence of some kind of vast
37:10
Speaker 1: cleanup that took place relative to this along with the
37:16
Speaker 1: velocity at which this blood was deposited, that it's only
37:20
Speaker 1: going to arise if you have this kind of deposition
37:26
Speaker 1: that is, from a velocity standpoint, is consistent with low velocity,
37:34
Speaker 1: because that's the only way you come up with this
37:36
Speaker 1: idea of slashing. If you draw a knife across somebody,
37:39
Speaker 1: if you if you plunge a knife into somebody and
37:42
Speaker 1: you draw it back off, you cast it off. You
37:45
Speaker 1: can cast off. Just imagine sticking a paint brush into
37:47
Speaker 1: a paint can and throwing it over your shoulder, you know,
37:50
Speaker 1: flipping the brush over your shoulder, that's cast off. Or
37:55
Speaker 1: if somebody is being impacted where they're down on the
37:58
Speaker 1: floor and they're being beaten or kicked, okay, which is
38:02
Speaker 1: horrific to think about this mother of five, you know,
38:05
Speaker 1: in this position on the floor. It's it's quite it's
38:10
Speaker 1: it's quite the thing when you begin to, you know,
38:13
Speaker 1: kind of consider what are they going to do with
38:17
Speaker 1: this case with traconas because they're they're talking about her.
38:20
Speaker 1: Her trial really at its at its core, comes down
38:25
Speaker 1: to her aiding Foydus do loos in destruction of evidence
38:32
Speaker 1: and that that's that's what they're actually, you know, kind
38:35
Speaker 1: of saying here. So I don't know how. I'm hoping
38:39
Speaker 1: that as this trial progresses, we're going to hear more
38:43
Speaker 1: about the bloodstained evidence, and not just in We've already
38:46
Speaker 1: had a DNA expert that has come on to the stand,
38:50
Speaker 1: has talked about the probability, and they've excluded everybody. They
38:53
Speaker 1: did cheek swabs on all of the kids. Uh, Floyda's Doulos.
38:57
Speaker 1: You're the employee that you mentioned. They got him, They've
39:01
Speaker 1: got Lauren. They had to do because you have to exclude,
39:04
Speaker 1: you know, the blood that you have present.
39:06
Speaker 2: I mentioned that employee just because those as Joe and
39:10
Speaker 2: I both are told you earlier the trials ongoing of
39:12
Speaker 2: Mitchell Traconus, Uh, the employee that owned the truck that
39:17
Speaker 2: did not give Dulo's permission to use the truck. Uh
39:20
Speaker 2: Thas actually took it twice. He took it two separate times,
39:24
Speaker 2: and police have said that he that Delos cut his
39:26
Speaker 2: hair to match this employee so as to see uh
39:30
Speaker 2: if on cameras around town. Uh, they actually see Doulos,
39:36
Speaker 2: but from a distance. Hey, man that could be the employee.
39:38
Speaker 2: That's why I said that earlier. You know, the defense
39:40
Speaker 2: is going to hang on that. But Joe, would they
39:42
Speaker 2: be able to get they being investigators, are you going
39:45
Speaker 2: to be able to get I know we have blood
39:47
Speaker 2: in the garage. Are we going to have blood or
39:50
Speaker 2: some type of DNA in the suburban that's going to
39:53
Speaker 2: be traceable?
39:54
Speaker 3: Are we going to have it in the front of
39:55
Speaker 3: the truck?
39:56
Speaker 2: And because we know that, we know that Doulo's actually
40:00
Speaker 2: he took the truck that he borrowed without permission and
40:03
Speaker 2: washed it out, scrubbed the floor, the seat. Would DNA
40:09
Speaker 2: or would some type of genetic material from the victim here,
40:14
Speaker 2: Jennifer Dollas rest in that passenger seat if he put
40:18
Speaker 2: her in there? Would they be able to find out?
40:20
Speaker 1: Well?
40:20
Speaker 3: They could.
40:22
Speaker 1: The most essential thing from a forensic standpoint is that
40:24
Speaker 1: you categorize that deposition. Was it something that was generated
40:31
Speaker 1: if they come across DNA there? Okay, what type of
40:33
Speaker 1: DNA sourcing are you referring to? Is it blood deposition
40:38
Speaker 1: like from a blood droplet, Was it a sneeze, was
40:43
Speaker 1: it hair? Was it touched DNA? Where you've got partial
40:47
Speaker 1: strand that's left behind. Did I don't know, maybe Jennifer
40:51
Speaker 1: Dulas was prone to nosebleeds for all we know. You know,
40:55
Speaker 1: we don't know, but you can. You can if it
40:59
Speaker 1: is her DNA that is there, you can specifically identify
41:03
Speaker 1: it to exclude all others, you know, even her children.
41:07
Speaker 2: You can do that so they'll be able to trace
41:09
Speaker 2: her from the time that allegedly, well, no, Jellus is dad.
41:13
Speaker 2: But the police saying that you know he loaded her
41:16
Speaker 2: into the suburban, they'd be able to find out where
41:18
Speaker 2: he laid her in the suburban, right.
41:21
Speaker 1: They could, And a lot of that would have to
41:23
Speaker 1: go to a if you if you take a body
41:27
Speaker 1: that is producing or has produced, and is wet from blood.
41:35
Speaker 1: I have been on scenes before where bodies have been
41:38
Speaker 1: moved from their initial position and you can actually see,
41:44
Speaker 1: you can at least project in your mind that this
41:48
Speaker 1: looks like this person may have been laying in a
41:51
Speaker 1: fetal position. There's a huge deposition up here in a
41:53
Speaker 1: smaller area that might be where the head rested. There's
41:57
Speaker 1: an absence of blood here, but down here there's more,
42:00
Speaker 1: and you can kind of visualize in your mind what
42:02
Speaker 1: position the body would but it would have to be
42:05
Speaker 1: such a copious amount of blood in order to make
42:09
Speaker 1: a determination like that, And you know you have to
42:13
Speaker 1: look at also a typical why would Okay, I understand
42:17
Speaker 1: your blood could be in the front seat of a vehicle.
42:21
Speaker 1: Going back to my example of a nosebleed. Yeah, I've
42:23
Speaker 1: had a nosebleed driving down the road. Is it beyond
42:26
Speaker 1: the realm of possibility? I could have it on an armrest,
42:29
Speaker 1: even on the steering wheel. You know, it's reaction you
42:32
Speaker 1: touch it like that. But why if it's safe, for instance,
42:35
Speaker 1: if it's in the back of the truck, why would
42:38
Speaker 1: blood be there, Why would her blood be there? And
42:41
Speaker 1: why would it be this huge volume of it?
42:44
Speaker 2: So that bets That's why I'm getting to the volume.
42:47
Speaker 2: How do you tell how much?
42:48
Speaker 1: You really can't there's no way, and people have tried
42:53
Speaker 1: to do this before because a lot of it is
42:54
Speaker 1: depended upon how degraded the sample is the surface that
42:59
Speaker 1: is on. Because if you're talking about carpet, for instance,
43:02
Speaker 1: if you're on a carpet surface, dude, there's no way
43:05
Speaker 1: to assess a volume of blood in carpet. There's I
43:09
Speaker 1: don't know, because it would leads through that it would be.
43:12
Speaker 1: It would stain the top the actual carpeting, then the
43:16
Speaker 1: underlying not the mat below it, but just where the
43:20
Speaker 1: carpet is woven through, then to the underneath matt and
43:24
Speaker 1: then onto whatever subflooring there is beneath the carpet. So
43:28
Speaker 1: you couldn't assess it that way. And even with dried blood,
43:32
Speaker 1: let's say, if it was on concrete or on on hardwood,
43:41
Speaker 1: I don't think that you could get a rive at
43:44
Speaker 1: a reasonable volume. The one way you could actually have
43:50
Speaker 1: a guess at it, and maybe this is what the
43:53
Speaker 1: EMMY was doing in this particular case, was to say, Okay,
43:58
Speaker 1: they have got a enough blood stains, or they have
44:02
Speaker 1: there's an indication that this blood was widespread. Given that,
44:07
Speaker 1: I can kind of get an idea that this was
44:10
Speaker 1: a lot of blood and there's a high probability that
44:13
Speaker 1: it would in fact be incompatible with life. But you know,
44:16
Speaker 1: we don't. We're at a distinct disadvantage here today because
44:21
Speaker 1: Floyd is Doulos is dead and you know he and
44:25
Speaker 1: for folks that are not that familiar with the case,
44:27
Speaker 1: we have to understand he took his own life by
44:31
Speaker 1: carbon monoxide association. He was found within a garage and
44:37
Speaker 1: in the front seat of a vehicle slumped over. And
44:40
Speaker 1: here's here's something that the listeners might not know. He
44:45
Speaker 1: left a note. And it's not that you don't know
44:49
Speaker 1: that he left a note, it is did you know
44:51
Speaker 1: that notes in suicides? And in the medical legal world,
44:55
Speaker 1: we investigate more suicides than we do homicides. They outpace homicides,
45:00
Speaker 1: so generally two or three to one. Yeah, yeah, and yeah, yeah,
45:04
Speaker 1: there are more suicides that occur than homicides. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah,
45:11
Speaker 1: you know. And do they all leave a note? No,
45:15
Speaker 1: That's what I was going to say. For in my experience,
45:17
Speaker 1: I can't speak to all of my colleagues all over
45:19
Speaker 1: the country. This is my little slice of the pie,
45:22
Speaker 1: Joe Scott's. I'll own it. It is the exception as
45:26
Speaker 1: opposed to the norm. And I've often when I teach
45:30
Speaker 1: suicide investigation, I tell the investigators of students i'm teaching,
45:35
Speaker 1: I say, it would seem to me at least that
45:38
Speaker 1: with this idea of taking one's life, it's almost like
45:41
Speaker 1: you're standing over on a big rock ledge over a
45:45
Speaker 1: river and you're either going to do it or you're
45:49
Speaker 1: not going to do it. And some people just take
45:52
Speaker 1: the jump, and they have to build up the courage.
45:54
Speaker 1: And you know, I've have people that have gotten really
45:57
Speaker 1: drunk before they did it, that were high on drugs.
46:02
Speaker 1: Many of them will not write a note. But then again,
46:06
Speaker 1: I actually had a lady many years ago that had
46:09
Speaker 1: those do you know those black and white composition notebooks
46:13
Speaker 1: that you can buy that are actually bound with a spine. Dave,
46:16
Speaker 1: she had thirteen of those, thirteen front and back page,
46:22
Speaker 1: and they were all a suicide note that had gone
46:26
Speaker 1: on and on and on and on and on. It
46:30
Speaker 1: would seem, you know, she's just pouring her soul out
46:32
Speaker 1: in these things. And I read through the entire you know,
46:35
Speaker 1: through this entire collection. I did have that happen several times.
46:38
Speaker 1: But to have someone leave a note, many times, it's
46:41
Speaker 1: like they've been the psychiatrist referred to it as suicidal ideation.
46:47
Speaker 1: They will have this ideation, this thought of suicide, and
46:50
Speaker 1: finally they decide to act on it. But Dula's took
46:54
Speaker 1: the time to write the note, and I find this
46:55
Speaker 1: is really really interesting. In the note, he actually talks
47:02
Speaker 1: about how and this is paraphrasing that traconas had nothing
47:07
Speaker 1: to do with Jennifer's disappearance. But he's saying that he's
47:11
Speaker 1: not guilty of this, right, And he's also saying that
47:14
Speaker 1: his lawyer friend, who by the way, has apparently been
47:20
Speaker 1: caught up in this and his charged he allegedly dug
47:23
Speaker 1: a grave dave as part of this little confederacy that
47:28
Speaker 1: their alleging took place. He says he had nothing to
47:33
Speaker 1: do with it, and that they are not to harass
47:35
Speaker 1: his family or his friends and all this stuff. And
47:37
Speaker 1: so by virtue of that bit of knowledge, you began
47:40
Speaker 1: to think about this and it's okay, Well, you're saying
47:43
Speaker 1: that Traconas had nothing to do with Jennifer's disappearance. How
47:47
Speaker 1: do you know she's the other woman? For all I know,
47:51
Speaker 1: she's jealous and.
47:52
Speaker 2: We have radio dropping trash that night that we know
47:54
Speaker 2: had some of her d Jennifer's DNA on these rags
47:58
Speaker 2: that had blood on them that were dumped in track.
48:00
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, video yeah.
48:02
Speaker 1: And he you know, he takes his life by carbon
48:06
Speaker 1: monoxide assixiation, which again is is it happens? It's it's
48:13
Speaker 1: something that's common or for over the years, particularly in
48:17
Speaker 1: urban areas where you have a garage. This this happens.
48:21
Speaker 1: I've had people that have run pipes into cars. I
48:24
Speaker 1: had a guy that actually had a car, had a truck.
48:30
Speaker 1: He went to Great Links in a tragic case. But
48:32
Speaker 1: he had had a truck that was up on blocks
48:35
Speaker 1: dave that was outside of his window, and the engine
48:37
Speaker 1: ran and he used a glass cutter to cut a
48:40
Speaker 1: hole in his bedroom window, ran a drier vent pipe,
48:45
Speaker 1: a really long one, the kind of expandable ones, into
48:48
Speaker 1: the hole in the window, and taped off his tailpipe.
48:52
Speaker 1: With this thing sealed, it went into this home, laid
48:56
Speaker 1: down the bed with the cremaines, which are the you know,
49:00
Speaker 1: the cremator remains of both his wife and daughter laying
49:02
Speaker 1: on the bed next to him, and assixiated himself on
49:05
Speaker 1: the bed. So I've seen this before. Some people choose
49:10
Speaker 1: to go out this way. But here's the problem. Any
49:17
Speaker 1: knowledge that we might have of what actually happened to
49:22
Speaker 1: Jennifer Doulos, I think at least may have died along
49:28
Speaker 1: with Floydus Dulos. My hope is is it through forensics,
49:35
Speaker 1: perhaps we can resurrect her and have Jennifer tell her story.
49:43
Speaker 1: I'm Joseph Scott Morgan, and this is body Backs