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Monday Mini: Fandom and Obsession · Stuff Mom Never Told You

0:05
Speaker 1: Hey, this is Anny and Samantha.
0:06
Speaker 2: I'm welcome to Steff. I never told you prediction by
0:08
Speaker 2: her idio.
0:18
Speaker 1: And Okay, first let me say immediately before we start
0:22
Speaker 1: this Monday Mini, this is not an attack on fans
0:25
Speaker 1: and fandom.
0:26
Speaker 2: Okay an, okay, okay, all right, okay, all right.
0:29
Speaker 1: So we are obviously talking about fans, fandoms and obsessions,
0:34
Speaker 1: and I know we've talked a lot about fandoms, and
0:36
Speaker 1: I think it's important to kind of continue this conversation
0:40
Speaker 1: because you're about to hear our episode of cap Pop
0:44
Speaker 1: Demon Hunter, which I kind of will bring up a
0:47
Speaker 1: second about the fandom in general and why this may
0:50
Speaker 1: be as big as it is. But yes, so I
0:54
Speaker 1: am specifically talking more about what is happening in the
0:57
Speaker 1: K pop world and kind of it's correlation with fandoms,
1:00
Speaker 1: which we've talked about in our k Pop episode. We've
1:02
Speaker 1: talked about fandoms, we talked about in stands, so we
1:05
Speaker 1: definitely talked about it, but I thought we'd come back
1:08
Speaker 1: and revisit and just and just kind of as a
1:10
Speaker 1: reminder of like, hey, cap pop people are people. Fandoms
1:16
Speaker 1: need is great, but also there can be an unhealthy level,
1:22
Speaker 1: So we just kind of wanted to come into that.
1:24
Speaker 1: So for context, there was actually a fairly recent social
1:27
Speaker 1: media video of a girl or a fan using a
1:31
Speaker 1: voiceover of a kpop group like they're doing a sound check.
1:35
Speaker 1: You get early access, you pay a lot of money
1:37
Speaker 1: for some of these things and fan interactions, and it's
1:41
Speaker 1: that voice if you know, you know the TikTok video
1:43
Speaker 1: like Ladies, Ladies, I'm just trying to get my job done.
1:46
Speaker 2: You know.
1:46
Speaker 1: It's kind of like go through the shift kind of
1:49
Speaker 1: day type of it's really funny, like it's just like
1:51
Speaker 1: essentially like girls fanning over this. He's pretending like someone's
1:56
Speaker 1: fanning over him and be like ladies, ladies, and so
2:00
Speaker 1: into a video. Very cute, moving on, and somehow that
2:04
Speaker 1: turned into another fan saying that her moment was stolen
2:09
Speaker 1: by this video and that they were having they being
2:12
Speaker 1: the fan and the pop star having a private moment
2:16
Speaker 1: in front of a large crowd, and that the video
2:18
Speaker 1: shouldn't be used because or at least like the video
2:21
Speaker 1: is somewhat stolen somehow because it was for a moment
2:24
Speaker 1: for her alone, her and him, and for them alone.
2:27
Speaker 1: It was for nobody else and y'all did. She was
2:30
Speaker 1: very possessive, like y'all needed this is cute. Literally, she
2:33
Speaker 1: starts with I don't like how cute this video is
2:35
Speaker 1: and all but and that's how she starts to the
2:39
Speaker 1: point that everybody thought it was originally satire, like you know,
2:43
Speaker 1: there's a lot of like, this is my husband, this
2:45
Speaker 1: is whatever, whatnot cool? Everybody understood that, but it wasn't satire.
2:52
Speaker 1: She legitimately was upset and was arguing with many a fans,
2:56
Speaker 1: many of other people being like hey, someone was so confused,
3:00
Speaker 1: was like, are you insinuating that she stole your video?
3:03
Speaker 1: Because that is a problem. Content stealing is pretty big
3:07
Speaker 1: and a huge thing. And she said yes, but they're like, wait,
3:10
Speaker 1: so that was your video. She's like, no, but that
3:12
Speaker 1: should have been a video just for me. So it
3:14
Speaker 1: was very confusing and everybody was like wait, and of
3:17
Speaker 1: course the internet was concerned, and a lot of backlash happened.
3:23
Speaker 1: It stretched from her being accusing her of being obsessive
3:26
Speaker 1: to stalking to being like a K pop person, you
3:30
Speaker 1: might want to be careful because she's also talked about
3:32
Speaker 1: how she was going to be at the next show
3:33
Speaker 1: and the next show, which a lot of people do
3:35
Speaker 1: travel and go see the shows. We'll see more than
3:37
Speaker 1: one show. There's nothing wrong with that. I'm sure the
3:39
Speaker 1: groups are really excited you're doing that. Please buy their tickets,
3:42
Speaker 1: they say. But it also ranged to the void, like
3:45
Speaker 1: it kind of became ageist a little bit too, where
3:48
Speaker 1: they were like, hey, you're in your late thirties, you
3:50
Speaker 1: need to grow up. And again, it's not the same thing,
3:53
Speaker 1: but it does kind of like, well, yeah, it feels
3:55
Speaker 1: like you're too old for this specific behavior, which is
3:59
Speaker 1: both a just but at the same time valid. And
4:03
Speaker 1: also she's married, so everybody was like, you really think
4:08
Speaker 1: you're having an emotional connection, maybe a sexual connections, some
4:12
Speaker 1: kind of a bond here that you're willing to that.
4:19
Speaker 1: I don't think she's necessarily trying to sacrifice her marriage,
4:22
Speaker 1: but she's not. She doesn't care that this is happening
4:26
Speaker 1: on top of it. Like if this was a real interaction,
4:27
Speaker 1: let's say with your coworker, where you are having moments
4:30
Speaker 1: that would be really really concerned, and you believe that
4:32
Speaker 1: there were moments that's concerning for a relationship unless you
4:36
Speaker 1: have an agreement, which maybe they have and consent is great,
4:39
Speaker 1: So there was a lot of thoughts, a lot a
4:41
Speaker 1: lot of thoughts, and again, I'm not gonna lie, it
4:44
Speaker 1: does feel concerning. I was kind of I'm sarcastic, I
4:49
Speaker 1: am all the things that you would think, but it
4:53
Speaker 1: did put me on the level like is she okay?
4:56
Speaker 1: Is there something happening that maybe there's this underlying thing
4:59
Speaker 1: that we need to talk about, and yes, go again,
5:02
Speaker 1: go back to our k pop episodes and fandom. But
5:05
Speaker 1: we have talked about an interesting level of ownership that
5:09
Speaker 1: fans often have, especially in the K pop world, like
5:13
Speaker 1: the layers of the fact that if a K pop
5:15
Speaker 1: stars date someone, they leave reaths, funeral reaths in front
5:21
Speaker 1: of their companies to tell them you are dead to
5:24
Speaker 1: me and that they need to leave the company. A
5:27
Speaker 1: young woman was came out late twenties, by the way,
5:31
Speaker 1: mid late twenties came out about dating a star who
5:34
Speaker 1: was also beloved in South Korea. People were mad and
5:38
Speaker 1: they're like, are we not good enough for you? People
5:40
Speaker 1: being the fans, people that she has never met, she
5:43
Speaker 1: will never meet, that she will never have full relationships with.
5:46
Speaker 1: So it was kind of like, wow, okay. And again
5:49
Speaker 1: the antis aa say songs which we've talked about before.
5:52
Speaker 1: Also came from kind of like cake pop terminology and
5:56
Speaker 1: why they arose the fact because of the level of
5:59
Speaker 1: intensity of both love and hate for these groups, so
6:02
Speaker 1: it sounded like this larger level, and again specific to
6:06
Speaker 1: the k pop world, writers talk talk about the harmful
6:09
Speaker 1: parasocial relationships, saying, well, specifically this, so here's one. This
6:13
Speaker 1: is from a Medium article by Evanna who was a
6:17
Speaker 1: guest writer, titled the Harmful Consumerism and Unhealthy parasocial Relationships
6:21
Speaker 1: within the K pop community. And when we're talking about
6:23
Speaker 1: the kapop consumerism, there was a whole thing where they
6:26
Speaker 1: would buy records upon records and just throw away the
6:29
Speaker 1: records to get cards. So everybody's like, oh, that is
6:32
Speaker 1: so wasteful. Yeah yeah, because they had already had one,
6:35
Speaker 1: so they're just like, we don't want this, we want
6:36
Speaker 1: the cards. So and the fact they was littering all
6:40
Speaker 1: of like South Korean streets and people were like, this
6:43
Speaker 1: is really concerning and concerning like on the level of environmentally,
6:47
Speaker 1: so y'all need to think about this anyway. But on
6:49
Speaker 1: top of that, the parasocial relationships, this is what they
6:51
Speaker 1: write individuals not being able to make connections with people
6:54
Speaker 1: actively present in their lives can lead them into worse
6:57
Speaker 1: depression and complex emotions. They thought they were fixing with
7:00
Speaker 1: this peril social relationships with the world after the COVID
7:03
Speaker 1: nineteen going through a loneliness epidemic and young people age
7:06
Speaker 1: fifteen to twenty five now having seventy percent less social
7:09
Speaker 1: interactions with their friends and individual leaving a musical genre
7:13
Speaker 1: as her own only means of coping will become damaging
7:16
Speaker 1: in the future. So there's all these like statistics and
7:20
Speaker 1: research that she is using in this context as well.
7:23
Speaker 1: But the fact that this really grew open to the
7:26
Speaker 1: point that people have isolated themselves. Young fans have isolated themselves.
7:33
Speaker 1: Is one thing to have a fan base and to
7:35
Speaker 1: love and be a part of a fan base. We've
7:38
Speaker 1: seen how that can grow communities, which is amazing, but
7:41
Speaker 1: we've also seen the level of things like this where
7:44
Speaker 1: this woman kind of isolated herself because she is attacking
7:48
Speaker 1: other fans for stealing her moment and she became a punchline.
7:53
Speaker 1: So I wonder how damaging that will be for her.
7:55
Speaker 1: But and if at any point if he this actual
7:59
Speaker 1: k pops are word to address her specifically and like
8:01
Speaker 1: crush her dreams. What does that do for her? That's
8:06
Speaker 1: kind of breakup. It is a breakup because she truly believed,
8:10
Speaker 1: if she truly believes, and I'm still gonna hang on
8:13
Speaker 1: to a small glimmer of hope that she's just in
8:16
Speaker 1: it for the views a little bit, a little bit,
8:19
Speaker 1: but like, if this is true to her, that type
8:22
Speaker 1: of breakup can be really really damaging. I could only imagine.
8:29
Speaker 1: Because there's also a heartbreak when you love something so much.
8:31
Speaker 1: And we've talked about this in the Harry Potter episode
8:34
Speaker 1: because of j K Rowling and her horrifying inhumane responses
8:39
Speaker 1: to the trans community and queer community, what it feels
8:42
Speaker 1: like to be sabotaged when you love something so purely.
8:47
Speaker 1: And this is kind of that same level. Like this
8:49
Speaker 1: can be really really detrimental, and it could be harmful
8:52
Speaker 1: to your relationships. Like if you have built relationships and
8:55
Speaker 1: you have this kind of like breakup and it becomes
8:58
Speaker 1: a point of concern, what happens to those real friendships
9:01
Speaker 1: that you thought this was the tie for you. And
9:14
Speaker 1: then with the Korean standards of beauty, which often have
9:18
Speaker 1: led to bullying, psychological damage, and overall toxic behavior. The
9:22
Speaker 1: idea of perfection in these plandems can be pretty toxic
9:26
Speaker 1: in itself. So this was from another article from scottscoop
9:30
Speaker 1: dot com which is talking about teenagers and the idolization
9:34
Speaker 1: of the celebrities, and they say, while any person can
9:37
Speaker 1: view the lives of a celebrity distorted by social media,
9:40
Speaker 1: many teenagers easily find themselves falling into the rabbit hole
9:43
Speaker 1: of obsession. They can stemble upon a false sense of
9:46
Speaker 1: perfection as they come through the edited lives of celebrities,
9:49
Speaker 1: creating a mania that can only be highly destructive and
9:52
Speaker 1: hard to break out of. So I'm specifically thinking again
9:56
Speaker 1: he was addressing like things like swifties and talking about
9:59
Speaker 1: her was seemingly perfect life at times, where you you know,
10:01
Speaker 1: have those beautiful relationships and she travels and you know,
10:05
Speaker 1: the perfect games, all her friends having fun. That's one thing.
10:09
Speaker 1: But the level that we have with K pop stars
10:12
Speaker 1: is different in that they have been cultivated from fairly
10:16
Speaker 1: young age. I think they start like ten to eleven.
10:18
Speaker 1: They can as young as ten and eleven, even younger,
10:20
Speaker 1: going to camps, getting plastic surgery go ahead and being
10:24
Speaker 1: told you can eat certain amount of things like they
10:26
Speaker 1: are cultivated and if they don't make it, which only
10:29
Speaker 1: a small percentage, do they owe all of this money
10:33
Speaker 1: back to these companies. It feels like a racket, and
10:36
Speaker 1: I feel like we need to talk about this a
10:37
Speaker 1: little more. We have talked a little bit about K
10:39
Speaker 1: pop culture, but I feel like we need to investigate
10:42
Speaker 1: them as a really bad capitalistic corporation that prays upon
10:46
Speaker 1: young kids trying to be famous. But that's a whole
10:48
Speaker 1: different issue. But with that, we know they use this
10:53
Speaker 1: in order to entice young people to come into these fandoms,
10:57
Speaker 1: but not only to be in fandoms, dream that they
10:59
Speaker 1: could be a part of these types of groups as well.
11:01
Speaker 1: So if there's so many dangerous things onto that. And again,
11:05
Speaker 1: their personalities are cultivated by their companies, and so oftentimes
11:10
Speaker 1: that's not even who they are, which I hate to
11:13
Speaker 1: say out loud. So in that same article, they go
11:18
Speaker 1: back and talking about specific agendas and different studies, and
11:22
Speaker 1: they say in the studies, some of the most common
11:24
Speaker 1: negative impacts included psychological harms such as jealousy, loneliness, anxiety,
11:29
Speaker 1: and reducing self esteem, as well as things like exposure
11:32
Speaker 1: to malicious software and fishing risks, which actually we haven't
11:36
Speaker 1: talked enough about that, because that's actually true. The amount
11:39
Speaker 1: of scams.
11:41
Speaker 2: Of like you can meet this yes, but person.
11:44
Speaker 1: But also have you seen the ones who be like, hey,
11:46
Speaker 1: this is a I've seen one of us, like this
11:48
Speaker 1: is the weekend, I need you to send me one
11:49
Speaker 1: hundred dollars.
11:50
Speaker 2: Oh really yeses.
11:53
Speaker 1: But there was also we just recently that I saw
11:55
Speaker 1: not a K pop star, but just the celebrity from
11:57
Speaker 1: the New Girls, the dude who placed Nick saying, hey,
12:00
Speaker 1: it was so good to meet you last night. Thank
12:02
Speaker 1: you so much for hanging us out with us, And
12:04
Speaker 1: she was like a twenty he said. She said that
12:05
Speaker 1: she was twenty and giving us all this good advice.
12:08
Speaker 1: And he was like, wait, don't I don't. I don't
12:11
Speaker 1: know what you're talking about. I don't know you. I
12:13
Speaker 1: don't live there. I wasn't there. I'm over here. She's like, no, no,
12:15
Speaker 1: this is us, and she sends a picture this dude
12:17
Speaker 1: pretended to beat him and he's like, hey, if he's
12:20
Speaker 1: trying to get with you, he's lying to you and
12:23
Speaker 1: he's baiting you. And you're also really young. I am
12:26
Speaker 1: he's forty five, he's like, there's no need for someone
12:29
Speaker 1: forty five talking to a twenty year old like he
12:31
Speaker 1: was really concerned.
12:32
Speaker 2: That's fair. I would hate for my name to be
12:34
Speaker 2: used in some kind of scheme like.
12:36
Speaker 1: Right, which happens a lot more than you think, for
12:39
Speaker 1: people fishing out there to get these types of young
12:42
Speaker 1: girls thinking that they won. And we also know that.
12:45
Speaker 1: And I want to talk about a little more about
12:46
Speaker 1: like celebrities actually doing these things themselves become predators. Yeah,
12:51
Speaker 1: but again they go on to talk about how teenage
12:54
Speaker 1: obsession would seemingly flawless celebrities can only heighten these feelings
12:58
Speaker 1: as users idolized and surround themselves with their curated images
13:01
Speaker 1: of lavish lifestyles, perfect skin, glowing hair, and beautiful bodies. Again,
13:06
Speaker 1: should be reminded that this isn't just for teens, okay.
13:10
Speaker 1: With weight loss drugs and more and weight loss trends
13:13
Speaker 1: as well as anti aging narratives, the older generations are
13:16
Speaker 1: also having to battle the idea of looking younger or
13:19
Speaker 1: at least not as old as you are, which I
13:22
Speaker 1: fallen trap. Of the amount of Korean products that I bought.
13:25
Speaker 1: It's not a lot, but I've definitely spent money Anyway,
13:28
Speaker 1: moving on, of course, we need to talk about the
13:30
Speaker 1: access of social media and how that plays into it
13:33
Speaker 1: as well. The article goes on saying this, because the
13:36
Speaker 1: online world idolizes celebrities so much, they seem to become
13:40
Speaker 1: untouchable everyday citizens are often not knowledgeable about the boundaries
13:45
Speaker 1: they need to set between themselves and an icon. This
13:48
Speaker 1: can be seen in critiquing a celebrity's body, relationship, art, behavior,
13:52
Speaker 1: or persona. Many fail to understand the ramifications of these
13:55
Speaker 1: types of criticisms, so it kind of goes bigger into
13:59
Speaker 1: that conversation. And so when you're using the fandoms to escape,
14:03
Speaker 1: which is not a bad thing, it can be healthy.
14:05
Speaker 1: There's also a chance that dependency can become problematic. So
14:10
Speaker 1: from a substance media article, they write at times many
14:14
Speaker 1: people have become absolutely dependent on these artists for happiness
14:18
Speaker 1: to the point where it affects their sense of morality
14:21
Speaker 1: or ability to comfort themselves both mentally and physically. People
14:26
Speaker 1: will also go to links of sending death threats and
14:28
Speaker 1: docs and people on behalf of these public figures harming
14:32
Speaker 1: other people on the internet in the long run, And
14:35
Speaker 1: we've talked about this again in the K pop as
14:38
Speaker 1: well as we talked about this in the stands. I
14:40
Speaker 1: believe in general how racism has become rampant in this area,
14:46
Speaker 1: and like if a black fan comes in, they will
14:49
Speaker 1: often be attacked. They will often be told they're not
14:51
Speaker 1: welcome there. They will often be told that the level
14:55
Speaker 1: of microaggression that's happening is not there. If someone were
14:59
Speaker 1: to speak up as say that feels like cultural appropriation,
15:02
Speaker 1: they will be immediately attacked, immediately blacklisted until they're being
15:06
Speaker 1: too sensitive, which is getting worse by the way, this
15:09
Speaker 1: whole level of I can do that you're being too sensitive.
15:11
Speaker 1: It's all about race, like I hate it here. And
15:16
Speaker 1: of course there are the moments when the celebrities break
15:18
Speaker 1: your heart. There are current issues with BTS specifically and
15:21
Speaker 1: the fact that a couple of the members have sponsored
15:24
Speaker 1: things that seem pro zionis and they're really concerned and
15:27
Speaker 1: disappointed by that. Possible questions of queer baiting, which any
15:32
Speaker 1: I know, we've talked about queer bating, and we usually
15:34
Speaker 1: typically talk about that as like fictional characters or all that,
15:37
Speaker 1: but is that a thing in live bands? Like there
15:41
Speaker 1: was a moment where someone came out being by and
15:44
Speaker 1: people accuse them of queer baiting, and the question was,
15:46
Speaker 1: but if they're by, how are they're queer baiting? They're queer,
15:49
Speaker 1: that's not a thing, versus when you do have like
15:53
Speaker 1: one we talked about Mama Move being a big K
15:55
Speaker 1: pop group and one specific artists who loves dancing on women,
16:00
Speaker 1: but it's obviously in a relationship with a man and
16:02
Speaker 1: she's never come out, not that she has to because
16:05
Speaker 1: it's not a thing. But at the same time, is
16:06
Speaker 1: that a form of quibit because she knows she has
16:08
Speaker 1: a stronger fan base with the women. What are your.
16:11
Speaker 2: Thoughts, Oh, it's complicated. I do think in those examples specifically,
16:19
Speaker 2: there are biratures still pretty real, and that's kind of
16:23
Speaker 2: hard to don't. I don't know. It's not for me
16:26
Speaker 2: to say, like, just because a woman is dating a
16:28
Speaker 2: man doesn't mean she's not queer. But there there's definitely
16:32
Speaker 2: been instances where I have known, not necessarily with bands,
16:37
Speaker 2: but with actors where they know it's usually men, and
16:41
Speaker 2: the ones I'm thinking of, they know that their fan
16:44
Speaker 2: base has a lot of usually women, who are like
16:47
Speaker 2: slashing them together, and they'll play into it. But usually
16:49
Speaker 2: kind of like like it's fun, but you can almost
16:53
Speaker 2: pick up the undercurrent of derision.
16:56
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, and that's that's a big level of conversation
16:59
Speaker 1: of Like, also there was a conversation and like this
17:02
Speaker 1: person shouldn't represent a queer person or this person shouldn't
17:05
Speaker 1: do that because they're not out. And then they're like,
17:07
Speaker 1: why do you have why do you have to out
17:09
Speaker 1: someone in order for this to be a thing? So
17:12
Speaker 1: like there's so many levels to that that I have questions,
17:15
Speaker 1: But you know, that is also heartbreaking. It is heartbreaking
17:18
Speaker 1: when you see K pop stars who are in an
17:22
Speaker 1: area where like bl Boy Love we talked about that
17:24
Speaker 1: and O K drama stuff and stuff like that, and
17:26
Speaker 1: then they're outright homophobic. That is a bit of a pill.
17:31
Speaker 1: And I've seen that happen quite often in the K
17:34
Speaker 1: pop industry. And then again we talked about the racism thing.
17:47
Speaker 1: It's getting worse. There's a group that was formed recently
17:50
Speaker 1: with some of the bigger dancer stars and like I
17:52
Speaker 1: have followed a couple of these dancers in the US.
17:56
Speaker 1: Bailey Sucks one of her names, and she was dancing
17:58
Speaker 1: since the age of like five four. I don't know
18:01
Speaker 1: young and I have watched her in the in she's
18:05
Speaker 1: been a part of the California studios. She's been amazing,
18:07
Speaker 1: and now she's a part of a K pop coup
18:09
Speaker 1: called All Day I believe. However, within that, obviously she's
18:14
Speaker 1: from the US, from California, so or another members. They
18:17
Speaker 1: have a guy in there named who calls himself Tarzan
18:21
Speaker 1: and loves the hell out of some cornrows and all
18:24
Speaker 1: of the braids that are not and everybody's like, what
18:26
Speaker 1: are you doing? And apparently just said the N word
18:28
Speaker 1: for no reason allowed. That was an ad lib, like
18:31
Speaker 1: it wasn't a part of song, which still, why would
18:33
Speaker 1: it be? That was odd. Some of the fans don't
18:36
Speaker 1: seem to have a problem and they think this is okay,
18:38
Speaker 1: and the fact that this is a newly formed group
18:40
Speaker 1: as in like the last couple of months, this is concerning.
18:43
Speaker 1: And the fact that this is being disregarded by not
18:45
Speaker 1: only the K pop community but also the actual industry
18:49
Speaker 1: and being okay with it, that's really concerning. So stuff
18:52
Speaker 1: like that is heartbreaking to see, and that's when you
18:55
Speaker 1: lose all respect and you lose something that you loved
18:57
Speaker 1: and it probably invested a lot of money.
19:02
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, oh yeah. After we did that Harry Potter episode,
19:06
Speaker 2: I was looking at all my Yeah, I don't know
19:08
Speaker 2: what to do with it because I don't want to
19:10
Speaker 2: like I don't want it a round, but I don't
19:13
Speaker 2: want to waste.
19:14
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, like it's too late, like you, I feel
19:16
Speaker 1: like I'm already.
19:17
Speaker 2: I've heard the money is. So it's like I just
19:20
Speaker 2: pack it up in a box and put it away.
19:22
Speaker 1: Maybe they're talking about a group. Babe, one of my
19:25
Speaker 1: favorite UH Korean pop stars who was actually in acting
19:27
Speaker 1: now she's adorable as hell. Uh talked about the fact
19:30
Speaker 1: that her light sticks or sixty dollars piece of plastic
19:34
Speaker 1: with a little bit of a light bulb and there
19:35
Speaker 1: was sixty dollars.
19:38
Speaker 2: Wow.
19:39
Speaker 1: Can you imagine spending that anyway? It's an investment. But again,
19:44
Speaker 1: so with all of that, yes, and there's also, as
19:47
Speaker 1: we mentioned before, celebrities who are actual predators and seemingly untouchable. Actually,
19:52
Speaker 1: several of the squid games who have gotten huge, including
19:56
Speaker 1: one of the dudes who was in K Pop Demon Hunter,
19:59
Speaker 1: which I realized later was accused of sexual assault or
20:02
Speaker 1: sexual harassment at the very least. So there's a lot
20:05
Speaker 1: of things that you're like, that's really that's appointing. How
20:10
Speaker 1: do I love something when there's so many like that's
20:13
Speaker 1: a portion to this that I hate. Ah, But I
20:17
Speaker 1: would be remiss if we did not jump into the
20:19
Speaker 1: fact that there are in our episodes on fangirls, there
20:22
Speaker 1: is also a conversation where this is also kind of
20:25
Speaker 1: a steeped and misogyny when we talk about the obsession
20:29
Speaker 1: and I'm putting that in quotes and about being healthy. Now,
20:32
Speaker 1: I think there is a middle ground to everything. I
20:35
Speaker 1: am all about balance. I am a libra to the core,
20:39
Speaker 1: so I think there has to be a healthy balance.
20:41
Speaker 1: But with that, yes, there is also their misogynistic take
20:45
Speaker 1: on fangirls, and we cannot ignore that either. This is
20:50
Speaker 1: from a twenty twenty three article written by Alisha Lansam,
20:53
Speaker 1: and she says this, this pattern of being penalized for
20:56
Speaker 1: being a girl with emotions is something I find uncomfortably familiar.
21:00
Speaker 1: At the height of the twenty tens, my dedication to
21:02
Speaker 1: Justin Bieber, one of the best selling artists in music history,
21:05
Speaker 1: was regularly joked about at school. My commitment to being
21:09
Speaker 1: a believer was seen as delusional at worst, and uncool
21:12
Speaker 1: at best. Even the media called us out for our
21:15
Speaker 1: beaber fever, with articles at the time stating that research
21:19
Speaker 1: into the made up condition showed it to be more
21:21
Speaker 1: infectious than measles. The symptoms, they said included poor life choices,
21:27
Speaker 1: uncontrollable crying, and screaming symptoms of illness. Like Benny, I
21:32
Speaker 1: brushed off the label as funny, but it was hard
21:35
Speaker 1: not to internalize the idea of being perceived as ridiculous
21:38
Speaker 1: on the world stage. While I was laughed at for
21:40
Speaker 1: knowing my face's birthday and the words to all his songs,
21:43
Speaker 1: my guy friends could discuss every injury their favorite football
21:47
Speaker 1: player had ever had and be thought of as well informed.
21:50
Speaker 1: As I ripped posters of Bieber out of magazines, it
21:53
Speaker 1: was common to see neighboring articles using words like mad, stalker,
21:57
Speaker 1: and scary. The sentiment was loud and clear. When girls
22:00
Speaker 1: know a lot about something they love, they're crazy. When
22:02
Speaker 1: boys do, they're passionate. Which, yeah, we've talked about that previously.
22:06
Speaker 1: We've talked about that before. That just because it's a
22:09
Speaker 1: girl liking something does not diminish the fact that they
22:12
Speaker 1: are important, that something has happened, and that they are,
22:16
Speaker 1: these girls are powerful, they are her power machines, or
22:19
Speaker 1: these fans are and a little bit more from a
22:22
Speaker 1: different article they write this. Professor Sarah bannitt Weiser, co
22:25
Speaker 1: author of Believability, Sexual Violence, Media, and the Politics of Doubt,
22:29
Speaker 1: believes this characterization of fangirls as potentially fanatical is unfairly
22:34
Speaker 1: connected to the scritiny of women in general. As far
22:36
Speaker 1: as I know, most of the cases of fans stalking
22:39
Speaker 1: and being violent against celebrities are men, she tells Refinary
22:43
Speaker 1: twenty nine. General findings show that stalkers are more often
22:46
Speaker 1: SISCE men than women. The idea that women fans are
22:50
Speaker 1: unstable is a real issue, as it connects to women
22:52
Speaker 1: being seen as irrational. She explains, So, even though I
22:56
Speaker 1: did start off with a very example of the first
22:59
Speaker 1: woman again and in the perception of like she might
23:02
Speaker 1: be a little too much at this point attacking other fans,
23:06
Speaker 1: we know that it's not typically women who are causing harm.
23:10
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, and you know, interestingly, you can go see
23:14
Speaker 2: the feminist movie Friday we did on Turning Red where
23:18
Speaker 2: we talked about this. But there's also a lot more
23:21
Speaker 2: to be said about women not having safe spaces to
23:25
Speaker 2: express sexuality in our society. And so when you get
23:31
Speaker 2: in a lot of cases anyway, when you have this
23:34
Speaker 2: crush on a celebrity and you're screaming and you know
23:38
Speaker 2: their birthday and all of that, a lot of times
23:41
Speaker 2: it's because you don't feel safe doing that with real
23:45
Speaker 2: person in your life, or you might be judged for it,
23:48
Speaker 2: or Shane Fort in a clearly you're still being judged
23:51
Speaker 2: in Shane Fort can't win. But people will call you out.
23:56
Speaker 2: You're real, You're irl.
23:59
Speaker 1: Colleagues, we'll be like and yeah, and again this kind
24:02
Speaker 1: of goes back to the happy hour that I talked
24:04
Speaker 1: about and like enjoying things like that I wish I
24:07
Speaker 1: could have done as a child, but I couldn't because
24:09
Speaker 1: I couldn't be a child. And now growing up, now
24:11
Speaker 1: finding a moment be like I actually really enjoyed this,
24:14
Speaker 1: and I want to love it and I want to
24:16
Speaker 1: dedicate to it. Like there's this difference of like trying
24:19
Speaker 1: to find the balance once again. But yeah, is ever
24:24
Speaker 1: growing too, the fandoms are with social media, I really
24:29
Speaker 1: connected all over the world.
24:32
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what I was going to say, because I
24:33
Speaker 2: also have an episode on Phantom coming up, it's our
24:38
Speaker 2: big Fantom month. But I really think that the Internet
24:44
Speaker 2: and social media has changed and continues to change this
24:47
Speaker 2: conversation because even though that existed when I was young,
24:50
Speaker 2: when Justin Bieber and the Believers were around, it's just
24:54
Speaker 2: gotten more and more. And I really think that access
24:59
Speaker 2: and going back to a recent conversation we had about
25:02
Speaker 2: you know, it's not everyone who is like this, but
25:04
Speaker 2: some people online take up so much space that they
25:09
Speaker 2: make you feel like, is everyone like this? Plenty of
25:14
Speaker 2: people they can be very fanish about something but also
25:18
Speaker 2: not harrassed people, right, but people still, I mean, that's
25:21
Speaker 2: a real problem. And yeah, we'll talk about it a
25:24
Speaker 2: little bit more in my coming up one. But that
25:27
Speaker 2: whole idea of if people are online you can just
25:30
Speaker 2: say anything right now, there's still still people exactly no need,
25:38
Speaker 2: no need, no need. Well, gosh, we've got so many,
25:44
Speaker 2: so many avenues we could go down with that. But
25:46
Speaker 2: in the meantime, listeners, if you have any thoughts about
25:48
Speaker 2: this or anything you would like for us to explore
25:52
Speaker 2: around this, please let us know. You can emails at Hello,
25:55
Speaker 2: at stuff onever told you dot com. You can find
25:57
Speaker 2: us some pou skuyt mop Stuff podcast or on Instagram
26:00
Speaker 2: and TikTok at stuff When Never Told You for us
26:02
Speaker 2: on YouTube and we have a book you can get
26:03
Speaker 2: where you get your books. Thanks as always start a
26:05
Speaker 2: super produced Christine, are excited to producer my Inner contributor Joey,
26:08
Speaker 2: Thank you and thanks to you for listening stuff will
26:11
Speaker 2: Never Told You to production of My Heart Radio. For
26:12
Speaker 2: more podcasts from my Heart Radio, you can check out
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Speaker 2: the heart Radio app Apple Podcasts wherever you listen to
26:16
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