Latest / The Worship and Leadership Podcast / Discipling Busy People

Transcript

Discipling Busy People · The Worship and Leadership Podcast

• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: What's going on, everybody?
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Worship and Leadership Podcast.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: My name is Elmer Cañas.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: This gentleman over here is Willie C.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_00: Simpson Jr.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: And why are you so blue?
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so blue today.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: Because I just found out that I got second place for the coolest dad in my neighborhood.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_01: Man, second place is not bad.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's not bad.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: Well, like Ricky Bobby says, second place is the first loser.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: Remember that, guys.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_01: Second place is the first loser.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yo, what's up, Elmer?
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: What's up, man?
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: I'm excited, man.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's gonna be a good day.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's gonna be a good day.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: And today we're talking about discipling busy people.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: Busy people.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like how many of you are busy?
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: You're a busy person being a cool dad.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's right.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: And you're you're you're a busy person being a great dad.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: I am a great husband and a great friend and a great leader.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: I got first place in my neighborhood.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_01: You did, yeah.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_01: But see, your neighborhood's way smaller because it's only you and one other guy, and uh he's dead.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: So uh yeah.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: So discipling, discipling busy people.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_00: Discipling busy people.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: Oh man.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: Because discipleship is something that happens whether we want it or not.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: Something is always influencing us, absolutely discipling us.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: And so let's let's talk about that.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, so to your point, like I said, we're we're always being influenced, we're already, and we're always influencing others, whether we realize it or not.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: And discipling or discipleship, it's not an event, it's not programmatic, it's actually relationship-based and it's life-based.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: And Jesus, again, he models perfectly what discipleship is.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: When you read among all four gospels, you see Jesus taking his followers on this three-year discipleship track.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_01: But if we're not careful, we will think of discipleship as a primarily New Testament innovation.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: And uh Deuteronomy chapter six really lays out specifically not so much what to do in discipleship, but lays out a great rhythm for discipleship.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_01: So I'll just read here.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_01: So this is God, and he's commanding Israel, and uh let me put it up here.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, Deuteronomy chapter six, uh, starting at verse six.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_01: And again, just to give you context, so these are commandments that God is giving Israel for how they are to do life.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_01: And he starts with you know moral laws and and civil laws, and now he's really talking through relationship, and he's really, you know, speaking through uh households.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: So he says, Here, Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_01: You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and all your soul and with all your might, in verse six.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: And these words that I command you today shall be on your heart.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_01: So the first thing he says is, Hey, the word that I'm giving you, the truth that I'm giving you, it's got to live inside of you.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_01: So discipleship starts with us first, because we can't give out what we don't already have.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: But then look at verse 7, he says, You shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_01: And these are the ways.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_01: So this is kind of like the four corners, right?
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: When you sit in your house, when you walk by the way, when you lie down, and when you rise.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_01: And so you can see the sort of four-dimensional view that God gives us of discipleship.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I love the first word that he says, you shall teach.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_01: And we don't tend to think of discipleship as teaching, we didn't we tend to think of it as more following, but there is an instructive aspect.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_01: And Jesus says in the Great Commission, he says, to make disciples, comma, teaching them to obey what I've commanded you.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: And that pulls forward here.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: This is Yahweh here in Deuteronomy and Yahweh in Matthew 28, seeing the same thing.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_01: Discipleship starts with instruction.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: We have to know what it means to live.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: How do I live for God?
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_01: I know that I'm supposed to teach me how to do so.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and a lot of times I think we we want to learn those things through programs and systems, yeah, especially because we're so busy.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you think of families where their kids are, you know, playing every single sport, every single weekend or every single day of the week.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_00: And you systematize your home.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_00: And so now you're living off a calendar, yeah, and the calendar is what rules the house.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's not the word of God.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: And and and it's hard to say because even in you go to our house and in the kitchen, we have this calendar of all the things happening for the month for all of us as a family, just so we all know what's happening and what to prepare for as a family.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: But if we're not careful, the the rhythm of life it takes over the things that we're to learn and and the things that we're to teach.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_00: And so if you look at your calendar, and this is what I'm getting to, if you look at your calendar, is there an intentional moment in that calendar where you're actually discipling your kids?
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's right.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: Where you're being discipled yourself?
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_00: I doubt it, you know.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: Sure, sure.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_00: And so for us, it's it's it's not on the calendar, but we have dinner.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_00: If we're all home for lunch or breakfast, we sit around the table.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I've said this before on the podcast that the table in our home is where we do life community.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: When people come over to our homes and we invite people uh to our home, that table has a lot of sentiment because that's where we pour our hearts out, that's where we cry with people, that's where we pray, that's where our kids have fights with one another, you know, and that's where life happens.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, other than that moment, like, are we intentional with what how where we're learning, how we're pouring out into others?
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's that's the the danger of being so busy and being kind of ruled or controlled or organized by a calendar.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and and and to your point, honestly, you know, being ruled and organized by your calendar is actually very restrictive and and and almost it can kind of give you this legalistic mindset.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: I and I love here verse 7, he says, you know, the Lord says, You you'll talk of them, and I love that he says you'll talk of them.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_01: So so there's a teaching aspect, but then there's also like feedback.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_01: There's this, hey, there's this so when he says talk of them, that's like that's conversing.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_01: So it's really both and it's it's it's you're you're teaching the word of God, but then you're also conversing about the word of God.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, what did you take away from this?
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_01: What is your perspective?
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_01: What does this mean to you?
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_01: And here, this seems so much more organic.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_01: This seems so much more relational when he says talk of them when you sit in your house.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: So you think about all of us have homes, we have places that we live.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_01: And so what does it look like when you're just sitting in your home?
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_01: It could be around the dinner table, it could be in the play area, it could be in the living room.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like for us, it you know, the living room is our communal space, to your point.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if we're watching TV or watching YouTube or we're or we're we're doing sermon review, whatever it is, that's the time then that we're able to talk with one another, ask questions, or just kind of share the pause and say, hey, I know we've seen this here.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_01: Let's talk about what that means.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_01: And then again, get their feedback and their perspective.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_01: So he says, when you walk by the way.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you know, I think about, you know, our, you know, both of our kids are teenagers now, but there was a time when we walk them to the bus stop.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_01: And some of you are the age and stage in life where like you walk with your kids to the bus stop, or you got you go you go for a walk through through through the park or through your neighborhood.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_01: Or I love when it says just walking all along the way.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_01: This could be for people that have co-workers or or bosses or employees as you're just walking down the office, whatever it is, you're walking down the hallway.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_01: These are conversations around the water cooler.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, he just makes it very organic.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_01: And then he says, when you lie down.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_01: So that that's bedtime, or that's evening time.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, as we're as we're about to retire for the evening, hey, part of this type of ship could be, hey, hey, let's do the Lord's Prayer.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_01: I remember my mom teaching me and my brother the Lord, that was the first prayer that I learned was the Lord's Prayer.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_01: And we would pray it every single night.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_01: And then he says, and then when you rise, again, hey, good morning.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_01: And part of that could be, hey, hey, let's pray and let's trust it.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_01: Ask God to have a good day today.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah it's just that's so much more organic.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_01: And what I love about this, Elmer, is that it it's not like you said, it's not event-based.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not adding a thing to the calendar.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's actually this right here, my life is based off of that.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_01: This here is foundational.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_01: This actually, your life is built on all of those rhythms.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's a rhythm to your point.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_00: The last thing you said, it's it's built in, and I think it it covers the beginning of the day to the end of the day.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's just part of who you are.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like I think of like I I had them or have my mom that she prays and praise and praise.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: But I remember in being in her house, being with my parents as a teenager, as a kid, and all the things that she would model, yeah, she was able to lead me through them in person because I was there.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: I was in the house with them.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_00: Then I grew up, moved away, and so now it's like just checking in, like, hey, are you praying?
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: Are you praying?
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: I'm in my 40s, you know.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: I have my own family.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_00: She's like, Are you praying?
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: Are you praying?
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there's just things that she's instilled in my life that from an early age till now that she's committed to seeing through until her last breath.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: And that's a discipleship maker.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: That that's somebody that's she's making sure that my commitment to the Lord is not based on what I do, but my relationship with God.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: But not everybody has that.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: And so, and and that's why this is so important.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: Not everybody has a father figure, a mother figure that is speaking into them or a spiritual father, mother that can do this for you.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_00: But you have community in church, yeah, right.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_00: But the the danger is, and what we see a lot is that when people, when people say, hey, I can't, I can't do this, I can't be part of this, I can't go to rooted, I can't do a small group.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the it's not that they're rejecting Jesus, it's that they're saying I don't have time for it.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why I brought up the calendar at the beginning, because the calendar and their rhythm of life is so focused on other things.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_00: When the priority is I have a desire for Jesus, right?
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_00: I want to be more like Jesus, I want to get closer to God, I want the word of God to be the foundation of our household, the foundation for my life, right, for my work, for my school, for everything that I do, yeah, you see things differently.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you're right.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and to your point, man, I was I was thinking through this, looking at the show notes.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: This word un or the prefix un can't can't came to mind.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: You know, when people we will love to say, like, you know, I'm busy, I'm busy.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: And then we we put that forth as the excuse for not leaning into spiritual formation, for not like submitting to discipleship, right?
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like seeking out that community.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: And honestly, it's because we're dealing with a lot of uns.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: We're unorganized, we're undisciplined, right?
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_01: We're we're we are unmotivated.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: And and and and so, and we're we're uninspired.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like you need to get the uns out of your life.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's the issue in blocking you from discipleship.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: Just get all of those uns out of your life.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_01: And so when we talk about discipling busy people, I'm gonna say this right now.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: You can disciple a busy person because all of us are busy.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_01: I looked up the word.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_01: The dictionary definition of being busy is simply to be full of action.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: It just means to be engaged in action.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's not it's not a negative term, it's actually a neutral word.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_01: It just means I'm engaged in action.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like right now, you and I are busy recording this podcast episode, but we are still disciples.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_01: So what you have to do is get out of the mindset of looking at busyness as an excuse not to.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_01: You actually need to look at your busyness as a motivation to enter into discipleship.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_01: Martin Luther has one of the best quotes that I've ever heard in regards to prioritizing time with God.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_01: He said, I have so much to attend to that I must spend three hours in prayer.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_01: He was just saying, I have to first connect with the Lord.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_01: And so when we talk about discipleship, I think you have to first start with asking yourself the question, what do I believe that discipleship affords me?
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like, why, like why am I doing discipleship?
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like what benefit because, like you said, the calendar, everything that's on that calendar is a priority because you see it has some benefit, whether it's going to the kids' activities, whether it is going, you know, doing date night with the wife, you know, scheduling meetings, even scheduling time off.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like you see that it all is a benefit.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_01: So when you look at discipleship, do you do you start with the mindset that says, man, this is just another thing that I have to put on the count that I have to gear up for?
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: Or do you see this is the place where I get renewed, restored, refreshed, challenged, convicted, prayed for, cared for, seen, known in love?
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: That's a way different.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_01: Man, I'll put that at the top of the list every time.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_00: But but I think a lot of people will make time to be cared for, to be to feel loved, to feel valued.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like people attend those things.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like we have people that show up to those things when they're serving and they're seeing and they're celebrated and all that stuff.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_00: And like, yeah, I would be there too, because like you, you're being acknowledged and it makes you feel good, and you're like, all right, I'm adding value.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_00: You get it.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_00: That's what our dream teams do here at Life Point.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_00: You know, but the the harder, the harder decision is I'm gonna show up because I need to grow.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's not so much what you get, what you get out of it in the sense of how it makes you feel.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's it's discipleship, is something that goes deep.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and you don't see it and you don't see the results immediately.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: It takes time, yeah.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_00: It has to take root in your heart, and then they'll you'll see the transformation in your mind.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you think about what Jesus said in Luke, like to pick up your cross daily.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: Daily.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_00: He didn't say pick it up on Sundays and then put it down and go to work, right?
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: Be a whole nother person on Monday to Saturday and then show up to church.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_00: No, and and that's the rhythm most people do.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like their discipleship only happens on Sundays when they're in church by their pastors, by other people.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: And and I'll go to another extreme.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of people right now are being pastored or discipled by YouTube.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: On Instagram, on TikTok.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, that's a good point.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: And so now they look at themselves as a digital disciple.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_01: And the problem is that you don't have a shepherd.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: That that's the issue, is that there's nobody in your life, to your point, that can hold that can hold you accountable, that can check you on your foolishness, that actually knows who you are as a person and can actually challenge you to grow deeper in Christ.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's why it's easier to say, oh, well, I am getting discipled because I have a person who's a spiritual leader giving me information or giving me the word of God, they're preaching and teaching, and you know, I'm getting a chance to listen to it.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_01: I think one important aspect of discipleship is feedback.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: Again, Jesus is the perfect discipler because not only would he send out his disciples to do ministry, they would come back and he would give them more.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_01: He would give them feedback.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_01: They would give him feedback, right?
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: But the first time he sends them out, they come back and they're excited.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_01: Man, even the demons are subject to us in your name.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_01: They come back and they're full of just like, man, you know, just confidence.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: And he says, Hey, let me tell you something, man.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_01: I saw Satan fall like lightning.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_01: And he says, but here's the feedback.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, don't rejoice because you know the demons are subject to you know to what you're doing.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_01: Rejoice because your names have been written in the land book of life.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, your heavenly father knows you and sees you and affirms what you're doing.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_01: So that's more, it's a it's this feedback loop.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_01: And when you're when you are discipled online, which isn't even discipleship, there's no feedback.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, there's no one to actually gauge whether or not you actually retained and digested what it is that you know that you heard and you received.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: And it says a lot about our human condition that we desire connection, and because a lot of our society has learned to depend on these devices, this has become our connection.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: And so some people don't even have human interaction anymore.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's all on our devices.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: And so even though we don't know the other person on the other side of the video screen, yeah, like we think that we know them.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_00: But in reality, we don't.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they don't know who's watching.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: They just the other person, all they see is numbers.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_00: You know, because it's it's just a source, it's a resource that they're putting out there for the good of people.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: But that does not mean that that you're being discipled.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_00: It means you're being informed and you're retaining information.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: But then that's where you need a person like Pastor Willie says to hold you accountable to what you're learning and how you're growing and how you're putting it into action.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_00: I want to introduce this like we have our calendars.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's our society today.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_00: True.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_00: We've confessed we both have calendars.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's a discipline that I've learned to live by, especially in ministry with all the people that we attend to and the teams that we lead and still doing family, yeah, still fighting and loving and my wife and not fighting, fighting for my marriage.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_00: Right, yeah, yeah.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_00: Fighting for my marriage by making time when we do have time.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: And and we do all these things.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_00: So the calendar is so vital.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: But who are the people in our lives that we're willing to allow to interrupt our our calendar rhythm, our rhythm of life?
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, those are the people that need to be speaking into our life.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like, like there has to be somebody that that you're willing to just put it all down.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like, hey, I have a busy schedule, but I'm gonna put I'm gonna move things around because I want to spend time with you.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_00: And not because it's gonna benefit my business, but because it's gonna benefit my soul.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: So that hey, I love that, man.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_01: And so to your point, this is where when we talk about being a disciple, it is I'm I'm being discipled by Christ through a mature believer, so that way I can disciple others.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: And so it is both and like you have to make time and you have to prioritize this rhythm of being discipled as well.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like I said, you can't take people somewhere that you haven't been.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: And and to your point, Pastor Omer, I I think one of the greatest injustices, and I think one of the greatest delusions that the enemy wants to get us to believe is that we have to spend more time caring and leading others than being led.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: And again, you know, you and I, we we've talked about the fact that, you know, we we are in counseling and coaching and that we have people that that speak into our lives regularly, right?
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: Again, to and again, to your point, like it's not so much just the accountability piece, it's the sharpening, it's having a space, man, to to share.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_01: And there's something about getting out of the echo chamber.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I just feel like I need to say this.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_01: Like, some of y'all, you just you need to get out of this echo chamber where like you're the smartest voice in your life, where you're like the the highest spiritual authority in your life.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_01: Willie Simpson is his own worst counselor, right?
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, the the worst mistakes that I have made is because I was following my own advice, I was following my own leading through the flesh.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_01: And so when you talk through discipleship, I think you have to start first with being a disciple.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: We are all disciples of Christ.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, that is true.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: But Jesus is not physically here on the earth anymore.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: He gave that ministry to us.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: And so, what does that mean?
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_01: It means it is impossible to, I'm just telling you guys, you will not become more like Jesus unless you submit to the leadership and the care of somebody who's also following Jesus.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_01: Because that's the model of discipleship.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: He says, go and make disciples.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_01: He says that to human beings.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_01: He doesn't say that to the ether.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: He doesn't say, oh, I'll go out and personally disciple every person on the planet.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: Jesus could, but he didn't.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: He involves us, you know, in doing that.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: And so one of the things, whenever I'm doing care, specifically for men, especially men that have families, I say, man, the greatest gift that you could give your family is the healthiest version of you.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's the greatest gift that you can give your family, is the healthiest version of you.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: And you don't become healthy in a vacuum, you don't become more Christ-like, and you don't become wiser, you don't become more humble, you don't become more loving or patient or kind in a vacuum.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: You are discipled into Christ-likeness.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_01: You don't grow into it, you're discipled into it.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_01: If if growing in it, if growing into Christ-likeness meant all I have to do is just age up, oh man, then a 70-year-old, like they will be leading all the churches.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_01: But we have 70-year-old immature Christians.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_01: We have 70-year-old infants in Christ who just refuse to be discipled.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_00: So and discipleship is not an event.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's not an event.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_00: Again, going back to the the the calendar, discipleship is not an event, it's a path.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_00: And to your point of people that lead, you're following someone down a certain path.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_00: You're you're hearing instruction, you're you're reflecting on your own decisions, you're you're seeing how you're living, what changes do I need to make?
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_00: With the intention of how do I become a fully devoted follower of Jesus Christ.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_00: So if that's the goal, that's the objective, living a life that pleases God, what things do I need to remove from my life?
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of it you can go to scripture and you can read, but we all need someone to help us absolutely learn and grow.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_00: And so I'm not going to just go to scripture and just read it.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_00: I'll retain it.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_00: I'll let God and the Holy Spirit just reveal all that to me.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: But then the beauty of discipleship is that God will put somebody in your life.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: God will send someone into your life.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_00: There's probably already somebody in your life that is available and willing to disciple you, but you just don't have time.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the hardest decision.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: That's why we started talking about the calendar and time, because that is the part of discipling busy people.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_00: That has been a great challenge that people have other things that take precedent.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_00: Again, you're not rejecting Jesus.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_00: People are not rejecting Jesus because they want to get closer.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_00: But they just don't have time for it.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, one of the things that, you know, I've learned even from you, Elmer, is like, you know, when you talk to like, again, putting things on the calendar, it starts first like with this audit.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: And so I call it just a time audit or a life audit.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_01: Again, when God gives the command in Deuteronomy, he says these are the four ways you get to do this.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: You know, when you rise, on the way, you know, you know, when you lie down, you know, you know, where's the other?
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_01: The fourth one.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: So the the it's four-dimensional, right?
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_01: Brush your teeth.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_01: When you when you're brushing your teeth, right?
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_01: When you when you're about to go to bed, you know, you know, on the way, you know, get you know, coming up out of the house when you rise.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like, think about your life right now.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I just want you to do an audit.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: Because again, if discipleship is about rhythms, all of us have rhythms now, which means all of us have things that we're doing that occupy time and space, slots, slots during the day.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: So think about maybe during that 30 minute line.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: That you have, maybe once a week, you can either A do a check-in with someone.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, just get on a quick 20-minute phone call with someone, check in with how they're doing, or maybe that could be a 30-minute call for you in discipleship with your leader, with your mentor.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's just that easy.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_01: When you're at the gym, I mean, there's times I'll call my mentor, you know.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: When I'm, man, I'm I'm up there, you know, you know, bench pressing all of the weight in the gym.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I'm saying?
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: Letting Bermin and everybody.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_01: I got now, I got few guys, I got second place in a cool dad.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: I got first place in a strong dad.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_01: So, but it's like, man, why you know why on while you're on the treadmill, just you're having a coaching conversation, you're having a discipleship conversation, right?
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_01: On your commute on the way into work or on the way home from work.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like, just do an audit of your life, remove the excuse of busyness and say, no, I'm not too busy to be disciple.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_01: Because if you are too busy to be disciple, then your your your life is already out of whack with God's original design and intent.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_01: His just his desire is not for you to be too busy for him, who's the author of your life.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_01: He's not just that's not his desire for you.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: And those and those moments where where you you're making those phone calls and you're reaching out, it's not like I'm gonna call somebody, pull out a notepad, get a piece of you know, pencil, and then start writing.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_00: You can, that's great.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like there's some people that just kind of just drop wisdom nuggets, and you're like, oh, what was that?
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: What was that?
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: You gotta take it down.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: I can say that again, right?
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and and you wanna write that down, but it's it's as simple as you're getting ready to go to work, right?
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: You put it on speaker, put in your your your earbuds, whatever.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: Every day, Monday through Friday, my small group, we have a phone call, or it's really a Google Meet link that we have out there, and we jump on this call, and for about 10 to 15 minutes we we pray.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_00: It used to be a five-minute call, yeah, and where we did a devotional prayer, and now it's like the guys won't hang up and they're talking forever.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: And and I've confessed before on the podcast that I think it was like after summertime, like I haven't jumped on the call like every day the way I was, right?
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: But the guys took ownership of the of this call, and and that and that's why I don't feel guilty because they've taken ownership of this moment at 5 45 every morning, yeah, because it's so life-giving to them that they've invited other people, and so something that started in my heart, like, hey, let's let we need to pray more as men.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and so we started doing it together, and I led the way, and I put this whole you know, calendar of what we're gonna do, what day, who's gonna say what.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and then after that, I I let it go, and just watching these guys carry the heart for prayer and for one another, it's it's awesome.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it didn't take a lot, exactly, yeah, it didn't take a lot to to engage in that.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's we just put something down, found a plan of 30 days, and hey, we're gonna loop this over and over every month, right?
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_00: And we're gonna pray.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, okay, hey, hey, can you pray today?
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, I've never prayed.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_00: You're on a phone call, you can even turn off your camera, no one can look at you.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: Right, that's great.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and in the comfort of your own house, some of the guys are already on their way to work or they're already at work, and it's simple, yeah, but so life-giving.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and and it's allowed, and I look at these men, and I've just seen how the Lord has moved in their life because it's something that they've taken ownership of.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and it's it's something that they don't miss because they know that they need this to be able to be more efficient for the people that they do work with, the people that they love for their family, yeah, for their coworkers, and uh, and it's one of the best times of the day, honestly, to be praying and being with them.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_00: And so discipleship happens in so many ways, yeah.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_00: But ultimately, for you as the person being discipled, it starts with surrendering of your time, attention, your heart, your focus, and just the willingness to want to be one step closer to the Lord.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_01: So, come on, I love that.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I I just love that I first of all you've shared that story with me so many times, man.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I I I love it, Pastor Alma, because again, you're you're not creat it's not event-based.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: It it is structured, right?
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_01: Discipleship, there is there's their structure there.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_01: But it it's it's for you, you were after the relational piece.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_01: You were hey, I want I want us to connect, like you said, man.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_01: I want us to commit to prayer, and so discipleship always has an aim.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_01: And and I love the fact that again, you know it's discipleship because a disciple produces another disciple.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_01: And how do you know that?
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_01: Because, like you said, those guys are reaching out and they're bringing other men on.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like, so now they've become disciples, right?
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yep, and so that's again, that's the Jesus model.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_01: That's why he tells us, greater works will you do than me.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_01: Now he's not talking about greater in in magnitude, he's not talking about greater in magnitude.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, the resurrection is the greatest work.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_01: Ain't nobody doing that.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_01: But he is talking about in, how can I say this, in terms of effect and impact for sure.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we are they're Christians worldwide because we because we're choosing to make disciples.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_01: And so again, man, I want you to be encouraged by what Pastor Emma just shared.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_01: Like, it discipleship really is that simple.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_01: It really is that easy.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_01: And again, Deuteronomy 6, he says it's on the way as you're rising, as you're going, in the office, you know, at your at the job, at the gym, at the park, in your neighborhood, you know, at home, when you're over breakfast, over you know, over bacon and eggs, at night, you know, at bedtime.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like you can do discipleship.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_01: You just have to be willing to commit to it.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_01: But you can do discipleship.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's way, don't let the devil out of you.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_01: It is not something, it's not a burden to get through.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_01: Man, this is actually why we're put on this earth.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_01: We are put on this earth to further the kingdom, and we do that by by making more making more disciples.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, Pastor Willie, aren't you glad that Jesus wasn't too busy for us?
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_01: You know what, Elma?
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_01: I'm thankful that Jesus didn't decline the invitation on the calendar to get to the cross.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_01: I'm thankful that he didn't reschedule that and he didn't delay it.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_00: Come on.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_01: I'm thankful that he didn't check out and say, you know what, I'm I'm gonna be sick that day.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_01: I'm thankful that he didn't say, you know what, the committee's too long.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_01: I'm thankful for that.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_01: Is anybody else thankful that Jesus didn't delay, he didn't deny, he didn't demote?
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: Come on, come on, my Lord, he didn't distract.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_01: Talking about you too busy.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_00: His calendar, his skylight wasn't full.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_01: His skylight, it wasn't it wasn't full.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_01: Come on now.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_01: His Starlink was working, he had a strong connection in Jesus' name.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, we love you guys, and we're so glad that you joined us today for the podcast.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_00: Until next week, peace out.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_00: I knew you're gonna.