Latest / Wrongful Conviction / #471 Jason Flom with Stephen Carrington

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#471 Jason Flom with Stephen Carrington · Wrongful Conviction

0:06
Speaker 1: We initially released Stephen Carrington's story on June tenth, twenty twenty.
0:10
Speaker 1: Last we spoke, Stephan had been paroled while fighting to
0:13
Speaker 1: clear his name in the King's County Conviction Reviewing Unit. Finally,
0:18
Speaker 1: four years later, they concluded that we and all of
0:22
Speaker 1: you already knew that Stephan is innocent, and the DA
0:26
Speaker 1: agreed to support his motion to vacate the conviction and
0:30
Speaker 1: dismissed all charges. Here's our original coverage.
0:37
Speaker 2: It was a new year, nineteen ninety five, and Stephen
0:40
Speaker 2: Carrington was a young man with a short criminal history
0:43
Speaker 2: who had just gotten out of prison. He had recently
0:46
Speaker 2: gotten married, a young father, was training to be an emt.
0:51
Speaker 2: After having paid his debt to society. His life was
0:54
Speaker 2: getting back on track. On the morning of January second,
0:57
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety five, Stephan's brother Mark stood outside out of
1:00
Speaker 2: a lumberyard in Brooklyn as Shannon France and another man arrived.
1:04
Speaker 3: Mister Franz pulled the.
1:05
Speaker 2: Twenty five, announcing a stick up as the other man,
1:08
Speaker 2: Rob's customer, Hugh Keys, the store clerk, tries to grab
1:11
Speaker 2: mister France's weapon and was shot. Mister Franz loots the
1:15
Speaker 2: strong box and the two men fled, leaving mister Keyes alive.
1:20
Speaker 2: A confidential informant would tell the lead investigator, Detective Calabreeze,
1:24
Speaker 2: the names of three men who were seen by the
1:26
Speaker 2: lumberyard at the time of the crime, Shannon France, Eddie West,
1:30
Speaker 2: and Mark Carrington. However, when he searched for Mark Carrington,
1:35
Speaker 2: Stephan popped up at the same address, and with his
1:38
Speaker 2: criminal record, Calabrizzi added his photo into an array. Hugh
1:42
Speaker 2: Keys gave a shaky identification, and in the absence of
1:45
Speaker 2: any physical evidence whatsoever connecting him to the crime, Stephan
1:49
Speaker 2: went to trial right next to the trigger man, Shannon France.
1:53
Speaker 2: The Carringtons hired a lawyer to protect both of their sons,
1:56
Speaker 2: but it turned out to be to the detriment of
1:58
Speaker 2: one of them. Was never called to testify a trial,
2:02
Speaker 2: and twenty years later, finally free Stephen Carrington is out
2:06
Speaker 2: on parole but still fighting to clear his name of
2:09
Speaker 2: a crime that he simply didn't commit. This is wrongful
2:14
Speaker 2: conviction with Jason Flamm. Wrongful conviction has always given voice
2:23
Speaker 2: to innocent people in prison, and now we're expanding that
2:26
Speaker 2: voice to you. Call us at eight three three two
2:30
Speaker 2: oh seven, four six sixty six, and tell us how
2:33
Speaker 2: these stories make you feel and what you've done to
2:35
Speaker 2: help the cause, even if it's something as simple as
2:38
Speaker 2: telling a friend or sharing on social media, and you
2:41
Speaker 2: might just hear yourself in a future episode. Call us
2:45
Speaker 2: eight three three two oh seven four six sixty six.
2:59
Speaker 2: Welcome back to Wrong for Conviction with Jason Flum. That's me,
3:02
Speaker 2: I'm your host, and today we have a story and
3:06
Speaker 2: an outcome that we're gonna hope that who knows, maybe
3:10
Speaker 2: somebody out there can be helpful with because we are
3:12
Speaker 2: fighting to prove the innocence of the man who's sitting
3:15
Speaker 2: right in front of me now, Stephan Carrington. Stepan as
3:18
Speaker 2: I always say, I'm sorry you're here, but I'm happy
3:21
Speaker 2: you're here.
3:22
Speaker 4: Well, thank you, but I'm happy that I'm here having
3:24
Speaker 4: an opportunity to set the record straight and probably clear
3:28
Speaker 4: my name.
3:29
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's what we're here for.
3:30
Speaker 2: Let's go back to that original faithful day, January second,
3:34
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety five. What happened that day in the lumber store.
3:39
Speaker 4: Basically, all my knowledge of this saga story that took
3:43
Speaker 4: place I learned through reading trial minutes, from hearing from
3:48
Speaker 4: people in the street and things of that nature, because
3:52
Speaker 4: you know, I wasn't dead when it took place. On
3:54
Speaker 4: that day, they said that two individuals into the lumber
3:57
Speaker 4: yard at a parent robbery which resulted to a homicide.
4:02
Speaker 4: One of the employees at the lumberyard try to take
4:05
Speaker 4: a weapon from this individual and subsequently this guy shot
4:09
Speaker 4: him twice and ultimately he died. Eventually he died. The
4:15
Speaker 4: two individuals fled the scene. My brother was the lookout
4:20
Speaker 4: and subsequently the person that is my co defendant, Shannon,
4:26
Speaker 4: his girlfriend best friend is the one that gave his name,
4:30
Speaker 4: photos and everything to the police. There's a third individual
4:34
Speaker 4: who name was Eddie West. And I have to say
4:37
Speaker 4: that neither my brother or Eddie West was ever interviewed, questioned,
4:44
Speaker 4: sought after by the police department.
4:47
Speaker 2: So Eddie West was the other guy in the store.
4:50
Speaker 4: Now, Eddie West was one of the individuals that they
4:52
Speaker 4: mentioned that was out on the corner during the time
4:55
Speaker 4: the robbery was committed.
4:57
Speaker 2: Okay, Shannon France though, was he had some involvement in
5:01
Speaker 2: the crime? Is that right?
5:02
Speaker 4: They found his fingerprints on the cash box inside the lumberyard.
5:07
Speaker 2: That's not a good signce. No, they didn't find yours.
5:10
Speaker 4: No, they have no physical evidence or anything linking me
5:13
Speaker 4: to the crime, besides having a sibling who was mentioned
5:18
Speaker 4: to be outside with the individuals who was involved.
5:22
Speaker 2: So these guys go, they robbed the lumberyard, and they
5:26
Speaker 2: shot a clerk named Lloyd Campbell. Yes, both in the
5:31
Speaker 2: head and in the back.
5:32
Speaker 4: Yes.
5:33
Speaker 2: And then they found the strong box, they looted it.
5:37
Speaker 2: The two guys fled the scene. Your brother was either
5:40
Speaker 2: there or not as a lookout whatever he was doing.
5:43
Speaker 2: He was apparently not in the store, that is correct.
5:47
Speaker 2: So how did your name come to be associated because
5:52
Speaker 2: it's sort of a leap to say, Okay, well they
5:55
Speaker 2: got your brother, now they're going to just go after you.
5:59
Speaker 4: Well, I could tell you from the police reports the
6:02
Speaker 4: officers during the investigation when they received these names and
6:06
Speaker 4: photos of these individuals. There was an address on the photo,
6:10
Speaker 4: which was a promotional photo. At the time, I had
6:13
Speaker 4: a recording studio and we used to you know, wrench
6:17
Speaker 4: studio time out to individuals. One of the group, Shannon,
6:20
Speaker 4: my co defendant. He was an individual who was in
6:22
Speaker 4: the rap group which my brother was affiliated with a
6:25
Speaker 4: part of, and they had promotional photos up and down
6:30
Speaker 4: the avenue, the same avenue that these guys went and
6:34
Speaker 4: committed this crime on. It so happened that they committed
6:39
Speaker 4: a crime across the street from his girlfriend's business, and
6:44
Speaker 4: his girlfriend best friend is the one that saw him
6:46
Speaker 4: out there and eventually gave his name in the photos
6:48
Speaker 4: to the police, to the detective Calabrise. When Calabriese was
6:52
Speaker 4: doing his investigation, all he did was run the address
6:57
Speaker 4: through the police system, and my name came back because
7:02
Speaker 4: I was parole to that address. So when they discovered
7:07
Speaker 4: that I was on parole, the whole case shifted to me.
7:14
Speaker 4: Detective Calibres is quoted as saying that he had a
7:17
Speaker 4: gut feeling I was involved. He felt that I matched
7:20
Speaker 4: the description my brother was involved. He felt that if
7:24
Speaker 4: I wasn't involved, I knew something about it. And because
7:27
Speaker 4: I had a prior and I was on parole, they
7:30
Speaker 4: came for me.
7:31
Speaker 2: But you matched the description of the actual shooter, No
7:35
Speaker 2: or the lookout. No, whose description did you match?
7:40
Speaker 4: He said? I matched the individual who robbed another patron
7:43
Speaker 4: of this lumber yard, mister yu Keys. I didn't know
7:47
Speaker 4: what he was talking about. In my mind, I believed
7:49
Speaker 4: that eventually whatever they were trying to do with, you know,
7:53
Speaker 4: resolve itself because I didn't have I had nothing to
7:56
Speaker 4: do with any crime. This situation, you know, had me
7:59
Speaker 4: think about this one phrase, you know, and it always
8:03
Speaker 4: stuck with me that you never get a second chance
8:05
Speaker 4: to make a first impression. And because of my past
8:11
Speaker 4: is why I'm here today now. I'm not a goodie
8:14
Speaker 4: two shoe. I wasn't and that is only because I
8:19
Speaker 4: try to fit in with individuals I wanted, you know,
8:21
Speaker 4: to be down. I brought up my father's a pastor.
8:24
Speaker 4: I brought up in church. I went to church majority
8:26
Speaker 4: of my life and I wouldn't lie, you know, I
8:31
Speaker 4: hated church. I was forced to go every day. I
8:36
Speaker 4: wouldn't say a worse experience, but just not to do
8:39
Speaker 4: what normal kids do was kind of tough for me
8:42
Speaker 4: because I was a free spader. Like so, when I
8:44
Speaker 4: was like seventeen, I try to move out and so
8:50
Speaker 4: I started selling drugs with my best friend and that's
8:53
Speaker 4: how I got into the life of criminality and things
8:56
Speaker 4: of that nature. And subsequently I did get rested for
9:00
Speaker 4: drug seale robbery and I went to Rackas Island and
9:05
Speaker 4: I had a traumatic experience. I got jumped, got stabbed,
9:10
Speaker 4: got robbed, and as time went on, I knew that
9:17
Speaker 4: this wasn't for me. Prison wasn't something that I wanted
9:23
Speaker 4: to do. It wasn't a lifestyle that I wanted to live.
9:27
Speaker 4: And if you know, selling drugs all these other stuff
9:30
Speaker 4: was going to lead me to prison, then I had
9:33
Speaker 4: to do away with that, and not just those activities,
9:37
Speaker 4: but also the people that I used to associate with,
9:40
Speaker 4: And that's what I did.
9:41
Speaker 2: You were really putting your life on track at this time,
9:44
Speaker 2: which is sort of an added element of tragedy. You
9:46
Speaker 2: had gone through some training to be an EMT right, Yes,
9:50
Speaker 2: that's correct, your young father, that's correct, and basically married,
9:55
Speaker 2: recently married. Yeah, so you had your whole life in
9:57
Speaker 2: front of you.
9:59
Speaker 4: I had changed my life. I'd cut off all my friends.
10:02
Speaker 4: You know. I had a new born, my daughter. She
10:04
Speaker 4: was only seven months when they took me from home.
10:07
Speaker 2: It's sickening, I mean, and let's set the record straight
10:10
Speaker 2: by talking about your alibi, which is a bit of
10:12
Speaker 2: a sensitive topic. I mean, you were a married man,
10:14
Speaker 2: but your alibi involves another woman, right.
10:18
Speaker 4: Sad to say, And unfortunately, the day that they accused
10:21
Speaker 4: me of committing this crime. I was in the hospital
10:24
Speaker 4: with my wife, and I was also with another female
10:26
Speaker 4: friend before I was in the hospital with my wife.
10:29
Speaker 2: Right, like you said earlier, you had a recording studio
10:32
Speaker 2: set up in your parents' basement. A young lady came
10:34
Speaker 2: to visit you there and spent the night. Yes, Now,
10:37
Speaker 2: unbeknownst to you, your daughter had developed an ear infection.
10:41
Speaker 2: I was taken to the hospital that morning. Now there's
10:44
Speaker 2: no cell phones back then. Your wife was calling around
10:48
Speaker 2: looking for you, and she gets a hold of your mother,
10:50
Speaker 2: who walks the phone to you downstairs.
10:53
Speaker 4: That's correct.
10:54
Speaker 2: You spoke with your wife, assured her that you were
10:56
Speaker 2: at your way, and then you shower and get the help.
11:00
Speaker 4: When I got there, you know, basically, my wife is
11:04
Speaker 4: just like here, she's your responsibility. Now I had all
11:08
Speaker 4: and so you know, I did everything with her till
11:10
Speaker 4: the doctors wanted to come in. She had an air affection,
11:13
Speaker 4: so they wanted to do an X ray. Now, this
11:16
Speaker 4: is one of the things that baffled me, even to today,
11:19
Speaker 4: with all the technology and stuff that they have, my
11:22
Speaker 4: hands got captured in this X ray. When people read
11:25
Speaker 4: this case, really sit down and read this case, they
11:27
Speaker 4: wonder how did you get convicted?
11:29
Speaker 2: You had a solid alibi.
11:31
Speaker 4: I trial. One person testified against me, and I had
11:35
Speaker 4: four or five alibi witnesses that testified. The one person
11:39
Speaker 4: that testified against me mister Yu Keys, And I feel
11:44
Speaker 4: for him because I know that he's been duped because
11:47
Speaker 4: he told the nine one one operator when he called
11:50
Speaker 4: them during the day, that the crime was committed, about
11:54
Speaker 4: being robbed, about the individual being shot, what have you,
11:58
Speaker 4: And when they asked him to give a description enough
12:00
Speaker 4: the individual, he told him that he couldn't. He said
12:05
Speaker 4: he never looked at the individual, that he never looked
12:08
Speaker 4: at the person that robbed them. Wow, because he was
12:11
Speaker 4: afraid too, because he seeing what happened to the guy
12:15
Speaker 4: that got shot, he was afraid for his life. He
12:19
Speaker 4: also told that to the first police that came on
12:21
Speaker 4: the scene. But yet here it is Detective Calabrese is
12:24
Speaker 4: saying that this individual picked my picture up and said,
12:27
Speaker 4: this is the guy that robbed me. The district attorney
12:31
Speaker 4: is saying that the witness didn't say that. The witness
12:33
Speaker 4: said that I looked like the individual that robbed them.
12:36
Speaker 4: But in all the police reports, it's saying that the
12:39
Speaker 4: witness said that I'm the guy that robbed them. But
12:42
Speaker 4: in court, the district attorney is saying that the witness
12:46
Speaker 4: said that I looked like the guy that robbed them,
12:48
Speaker 4: and if he sent me in person, he would be
12:50
Speaker 4: able to identify me. But here's the catch. The witness
12:54
Speaker 4: get on the stand and said that he never made
12:56
Speaker 4: no identification of me prior to my arrest. So how
13:03
Speaker 4: did I become a suspect?
13:04
Speaker 3: Right? Which one is it?
13:06
Speaker 4: Right? Three different opinions about one identification? Now, who should
13:11
Speaker 4: you believe the detective who was saying that he positively
13:15
Speaker 4: identified me as the person that robbed them, the district
13:18
Speaker 4: attorney who was saying that the witness said I looked
13:22
Speaker 4: like the individual, but he will be able to identify
13:24
Speaker 4: me if he see me in person. Or the witness
13:27
Speaker 4: who said that he never made no identification when the
13:30
Speaker 4: police came to his house on numerous occasions. Who should
13:34
Speaker 4: we believe this guy? He didn't know me. The only
13:38
Speaker 4: thing that he knew, which he told the police, was
13:41
Speaker 4: that the guy was dark skinned and.
13:42
Speaker 2: Stocky, described half of your neighborhood.
13:46
Speaker 4: When they ask him, well how tall is this guy?
13:48
Speaker 4: He don't know. Is he taller than you? I don't know.
13:50
Speaker 4: Is he shorter than you, I don't know. Did he
13:52
Speaker 4: have a bed, I don't know. Did he have a mustache?
13:54
Speaker 4: I don't know.
13:55
Speaker 2: But he didn't see him.
13:56
Speaker 4: What do you know? He was dark skinned and stocky.
13:59
Speaker 4: They showed him the tape, and on the tape, you
14:04
Speaker 4: can't make the features out of the individuals, the two perpetrators.
14:07
Speaker 4: You can't really make facial features out of anybody on
14:11
Speaker 4: the tape. But the perpetrators had on hats and hoodies
14:17
Speaker 4: and three quarter length copes. And he stated that he
14:23
Speaker 4: couldn't see these individuals. He didn't know what the person
14:26
Speaker 4: looked like. He don't know if they had a bed, mustache, anything.
14:31
Speaker 4: He was just dusking and stocky. So when you look
14:33
Speaker 4: at the tape, all you see is shapes and sizes.
14:39
Speaker 2: That's not enough.
14:40
Speaker 4: He couldn't even identify hisself on the tape. During trial,
14:44
Speaker 4: the district attorney had to reference something of what he
14:48
Speaker 4: had on wait.
14:49
Speaker 2: Hold on the witness. This tape was so grainy that
14:53
Speaker 2: the guy couldn't identify himself.
14:56
Speaker 4: Yes, when the district attorney asked him to point to
14:58
Speaker 4: himself on the tape, he pointed to someone else. Wow,
15:02
Speaker 4: and then the disc attorney says something like this, is
15:06
Speaker 4: that you with the checkerboard shirt? Or who's in the
15:10
Speaker 4: checkerboard shirt or something of that effect, right led him
15:14
Speaker 4: to basically say, oh, and then that's me standing right here.
15:18
Speaker 2: Okay, I've heard enough about that. Now we know that's
15:20
Speaker 2: completely unreliable and out. That should have been out the
15:22
Speaker 2: window right off the bat. One of the things that
15:25
Speaker 2: sticks with me is the idea that Detective Calibreeds claimed
15:29
Speaker 2: that he could recognize you from a security tape because
15:31
Speaker 2: he could recognize your walk.
15:34
Speaker 4: Yeah. I believe that was the lynch pin that's that
15:37
Speaker 4: sealed my fate, because he got understanding and he pointed
15:41
Speaker 4: me out in court and he said this is the guy.
15:45
Speaker 4: And they asked him how he knows and he says
15:47
Speaker 4: that he could tell that it was me because of
15:49
Speaker 4: how I walked. And the tape doesn't show the perpetrator
15:52
Speaker 4: from his waist down, and they showed this tape in court.
15:55
Speaker 4: But yet, you know, I believe that that was the
15:58
Speaker 4: nail in the coffin for me, because he's an officer.
16:02
Speaker 4: They have a tape, and people believe even when I
16:05
Speaker 4: was appealing and I know that these judge never viewed
16:08
Speaker 4: the tape, but because of the language and the dialogue
16:11
Speaker 4: in the trial transcript, they even denied certain of my
16:15
Speaker 4: appeals because they saying you were clearly sint on the tape.
16:19
Speaker 2: The idea that anyone could identify anyone else short of
16:23
Speaker 2: someone who does have a physical, you know, impairment for
16:26
Speaker 2: war impairment exactly that's what I was looking for, is preposterous.
16:30
Speaker 2: I mean, the fact that they would even present that
16:31
Speaker 2: as evidence, it's ridiculous. But they did, and the consequences
16:35
Speaker 2: are not funny at all, they're very real. So there's
16:38
Speaker 2: there's that, and then there's the fact that you know,
16:41
Speaker 2: we know, we know what happened at the trial. That
16:43
Speaker 2: you know your brother was not allowed to testify. That
16:47
Speaker 2: is correct because your lawyer didn't submit his name on
16:50
Speaker 2: the witness list.
16:51
Speaker 4: That is right.
16:52
Speaker 2: Had he been able to, we don't. We never will
16:54
Speaker 2: never know what he would have said in the moment,
16:56
Speaker 2: but there's a realistic chance that he might have said
16:58
Speaker 2: something that could have exonerated you.
16:59
Speaker 4: Well, well, at that time, my opinion and believe is
17:04
Speaker 4: that he wanted to come forward and he did come
17:07
Speaker 4: to court to testify, and what I realized later is
17:10
Speaker 4: that my lawyer sent them home. When they started to
17:13
Speaker 4: question my parents about my brother and his whereabouts, they
17:18
Speaker 4: answered truthfully that he was here, came to court today
17:22
Speaker 4: to testify, and the district attorney stopped the proceeding and
17:27
Speaker 4: asked for a sidebar so they can discuss certain things
17:31
Speaker 4: which the sonographer records. And at this sidebar, the district
17:37
Speaker 4: attorney wanted to bring up my lawyer on charges for
17:40
Speaker 4: lyon about the whereabouts of my brother, because early that
17:44
Speaker 4: morning he said he don't know where my brother was.
17:47
Speaker 4: He never seen them, he never met him. And then
17:50
Speaker 4: it was discovered later the same day that my brother
17:54
Speaker 4: was at his office that morning and he sent them home.
17:56
Speaker 2: Wow, that's a big lie.
17:58
Speaker 4: And it's in the trial transcripts taking it up.
18:00
Speaker 2: And he didn't forget that he saw your brother that day.
18:03
Speaker 4: No, No, I mean because it was right. It was
18:05
Speaker 4: early that morning and trial was on and my brother
18:08
Speaker 4: came to testify at that time. I believe the best. Now,
18:14
Speaker 4: I understand why a person would be apprehensive for coming
18:17
Speaker 4: forward and trying to tell the truth about what really
18:21
Speaker 4: took place or who was involved on things of that nature.
18:24
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, he's your little brother. You know, he
18:27
Speaker 2: must have had a lot of conflicted emotions. I can't
18:31
Speaker 2: imagine being in his place. He's trying to save his
18:34
Speaker 2: own life at the same time, you know, he's got
18:38
Speaker 2: I'm sure a lot of guilt about putting you in
18:41
Speaker 2: this situation in the first place, because you talk about
18:44
Speaker 2: how you never would have been in the system if
18:46
Speaker 2: you hadn't have done certain things when you were younger.
18:48
Speaker 2: But you also would have never been in this situation
18:50
Speaker 2: if your brother hadn't have been involved in this thing
18:51
Speaker 2: in the first place.
18:52
Speaker 4: I think that I had set a bad president for
18:55
Speaker 4: my brother. I believe I was part of the influence. Now.
19:01
Speaker 4: I don't know if he looked up to me, but
19:04
Speaker 4: I believe that some of my actions are friends that
19:07
Speaker 4: I had that was around probably also roughed off on him. Unfortunately,
19:12
Speaker 4: I wasn't around for him when he started to engage
19:16
Speaker 4: in activities and pick certain people as friends that I
19:19
Speaker 4: could have probably said, you know, those are the guys
19:22
Speaker 4: you shouldn't thing. Because what I try to do was
19:24
Speaker 4: distance myself from everyone that was in my neighborhood at
19:28
Speaker 4: that point in time when I started to clear my
19:31
Speaker 4: life up.
19:32
Speaker 2: I mean, you basically took the fall for your brother.
19:36
Speaker 4: Well, I wouldn't say that I took the fall. They
19:38
Speaker 4: gave it to me, right.
19:39
Speaker 2: Your last hope was that your lawyer was going to
19:41
Speaker 2: do a good job representing you and that the truth
19:44
Speaker 2: was going to come out. That's correct, and you were
19:46
Speaker 2: going to go back and get a hold your life.
19:47
Speaker 2: But in fact, your lawyer was compromised.
19:51
Speaker 4: Yes, as it seems. I mean, he was kind of
19:54
Speaker 4: like conflicted in between his duties as a lawyer to
19:59
Speaker 4: me and also to the people that were paying him
20:01
Speaker 4: to represent me.
20:02
Speaker 2: And the people that were paying him were your parents. Yes,
20:05
Speaker 2: it's almost like they had a Sophie's choice. They had
20:08
Speaker 2: to choose what they did choose and if they had
20:10
Speaker 2: to choose to save one child for me.
20:12
Speaker 4: It is basically, and this was never spoken. This is
20:16
Speaker 4: just my thoughts as I got a little older and
20:19
Speaker 4: probably start to piece things together that you know, he
20:23
Speaker 4: had to pass. You know, he was in trouble before.
20:26
Speaker 4: Maybe he could handle this and we would support him.
20:29
Speaker 4: But my brother, he's the baby, and you know, the
20:34
Speaker 4: cops wasn't looking for him. They already gave him a
20:37
Speaker 4: clean slave and said they didn't want him even the
20:39
Speaker 4: district attorney said that they had nothing to convict him on,
20:44
Speaker 4: so they look for the easy choice, the person that
20:47
Speaker 4: had the record. If we can't get his brother, then
20:52
Speaker 4: we're going to get him.
20:57
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21:00
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21:03
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Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts.
21:14
Speaker 4: You served twenty three years.
21:18
Speaker 2: Twenty three years in maximum security prisons in New York State. Yes,
21:23
Speaker 2: was there a worst moment and was there a best moment?
21:29
Speaker 4: I mean I had a lot of not a lot
21:32
Speaker 4: of bad moments, but this a few. One of my
21:36
Speaker 4: worst moments was when I was in green Haven in
21:40
Speaker 4: two thousand and nine ten. I was in college. I
21:45
Speaker 4: was taking Christian Ministry Human Services theology course. I was
21:50
Speaker 4: working in the barbershop and this particular day, I was
21:53
Speaker 4: coming from study hall that I have my books and
21:55
Speaker 4: I'm going back to my cell. I saw a crate
22:02
Speaker 4: and I was like, let me take the crate and
22:05
Speaker 4: put my school books in because if anything happened to
22:08
Speaker 4: the school boos, I have to pay for him. This
22:10
Speaker 4: is an old maximum security prison, so they have leaks
22:13
Speaker 4: and waters dripping all over the place. Sometimes your toilet overfloor,
22:17
Speaker 4: your sink overfloor. So long story short of officers see
22:21
Speaker 4: me with the crate, tell me to put it back.
22:23
Speaker 4: I can't have it, and I complied. Supposedly he must
22:27
Speaker 4: have spoke to another officer because another officer calls me
22:31
Speaker 4: back and started going crazy on me, like what are
22:35
Speaker 4: you touching here? You know, don't eff in this, don't
22:37
Speaker 4: eff in that. And you know, I just stood there.
22:40
Speaker 4: I figured, you know, okay, he got his buddies here,
22:43
Speaker 4: I'm gonna just listen to him, you know, comply, and
22:48
Speaker 4: you know, hopefully, you know, I can go to my
22:50
Speaker 4: cell and lock in. And that wasn't the case, you know.
22:55
Speaker 4: So after he started to berate me about you know,
22:58
Speaker 4: touching stuff and his you and all this other stuff,
23:02
Speaker 4: I said, okay, you know, I'm sorry. You know, here's
23:06
Speaker 4: the create and I turned to leave. And I think
23:10
Speaker 4: at this point in time he felt like I was
23:13
Speaker 4: dismissing him, you know, or I left without his authority
23:17
Speaker 4: saying okay, you go, and he took offense to me
23:22
Speaker 4: turning to leave, and he jumped on me. They beat
23:28
Speaker 4: me up. You see my elbow I left elbow.
23:31
Speaker 2: Yep, got a giant nodding it right.
23:37
Speaker 4: My shoulders still hurt to this day. They beat up
23:40
Speaker 4: my elbows, they beat up my shoulders, they beat me up,
23:42
Speaker 4: They dragged me to the box, and they try to
23:45
Speaker 4: charge me with assault. And that was like for me,
23:49
Speaker 4: the worst day because everything that I was doing, I
23:54
Speaker 4: never had no physical altercations while I was in with inmates,
23:58
Speaker 4: all officers, anything of that nature. And I'm fighting my
24:03
Speaker 4: case and the only thing that's coming to my mind
24:06
Speaker 4: is that maybe I have an opportunity to get out
24:09
Speaker 4: of the prison for my case. But if they try
24:12
Speaker 4: to convict me for assault on the staff, which mostly
24:16
Speaker 4: everybody gets convicted of, you know, I just seen my
24:20
Speaker 4: lights go out. It's your word against officer words. And
24:25
Speaker 4: more than one officer is going to say that you
24:27
Speaker 4: didn't what you didn't do. And it's funny to me
24:31
Speaker 4: because it's like I'm saying to myself, like God, how
24:35
Speaker 4: does stuff and keep happening to me? And my parents.
24:39
Speaker 4: They're so religious that you know they would hit you
24:42
Speaker 4: with you haven't submitted to God yet, you haven't let go.
24:46
Speaker 4: You're being tested, You're going through the fire, and you
24:51
Speaker 4: know I cried like a baby because I seen my
24:54
Speaker 4: lights go out. And maybe this was also the opportunity
24:58
Speaker 4: that I seen God working in my life, because subsequently,
25:08
Speaker 4: guys that knew me, that locked on the company with me,
25:11
Speaker 4: they had wrote this Attorney's General Office, they inspect the General.
25:15
Speaker 4: They had wrote prison Legal Services, and I never knew
25:21
Speaker 4: that people probably watched me or cared about me like
25:26
Speaker 4: that I'm talking about inmates, HEARDing, criminals or whatever, and
25:32
Speaker 4: they inspect the general. When the inspect the generals came
25:34
Speaker 4: to see me, and I had written to them again
25:40
Speaker 4: because one of the guys inside the shoe area had
25:43
Speaker 4: told me, listen, you need to write these people. You
25:45
Speaker 4: need to write this person. Da da da da dad.
25:47
Speaker 4: So I was getting advice from individuals or who I
25:50
Speaker 4: have to write, who I have to contact to try
25:52
Speaker 4: to get from underneath this, and so I wrote them
25:56
Speaker 4: as well. And when they came to see me, you know,
26:00
Speaker 4: we talk. He says, well, we have to do our
26:02
Speaker 4: investigation and stuff of that nature. And then they came
26:05
Speaker 4: to see me, and I guess this is the first
26:10
Speaker 4: time in my life that I could say that I've
26:13
Speaker 4: seen the hand of God, because when he called me
26:19
Speaker 4: and they interviewed me. He says, I have good news
26:23
Speaker 4: and bad news. The good news is that we're not
26:28
Speaker 4: going to charge you with assault on staff because I've
26:32
Speaker 4: read all the reports that came in. I read the
26:34
Speaker 4: police reports, and I read not just your report, but
26:38
Speaker 4: I got several letters written from other inmates who have
26:42
Speaker 4: witnessed what took place. And I know that you didn't
26:47
Speaker 4: have contact with these individuals because they brought you to
26:50
Speaker 4: the box and it says your story and their story
26:54
Speaker 4: adds up, and none of the police stories adds up.
26:58
Speaker 4: But you have to go through the format I still
27:01
Speaker 4: had the hearing to go to, and this is how
27:05
Speaker 4: corrupt the Department of Corrections is. I remember the officer
27:09
Speaker 4: that had the altercation with me, that smacked me in
27:12
Speaker 4: my face and hit me with the sticks and all that.
27:14
Speaker 4: And there was two other officers there, but I didn't
27:16
Speaker 4: remember the two. And the reason why I remember the
27:19
Speaker 4: one is because he was my company officer. He's there
27:22
Speaker 4: every day. The officer that comes in the hearing was
27:27
Speaker 4: in the officer that hit me or I had the
27:29
Speaker 4: altercation with. It was somebody else. And we're going through
27:34
Speaker 4: the formalities and questioning the officer and stuff like that.
27:37
Speaker 4: So the officer said that we were standing the right shoulder,
27:41
Speaker 4: the right shoulder, and I took my left hand and
27:46
Speaker 4: punched them on the left side of his face. That
27:51
Speaker 4: caused him to bust his head on the pipes and
27:55
Speaker 4: bust his head open. And when I started to play
28:01
Speaker 4: if we stand the right shoulder to shoulder and I
28:03
Speaker 4: hit him with my left hand on the left side
28:06
Speaker 4: of his face, how is that possible. I would have
28:10
Speaker 4: to go over It's not come back and hit him,
28:13
Speaker 4: and you know so, so I asked the officer to
28:17
Speaker 4: demonstrate this punch. Can you demonstrate how I hit you
28:23
Speaker 4: with my left hand on the left side of your
28:25
Speaker 4: face if we stand the right shoulder the right shoulder,
28:28
Speaker 4: I would like for you to demonstrate this. And the
28:31
Speaker 4: hearing officer said that there will be no demonstrations in here,
28:35
Speaker 4: so he never got to demonstrate, and I, you know, objected,
28:38
Speaker 4: and I told him that it's impossible that that can
28:41
Speaker 4: take place. Long story short, the officer that wrote the
28:45
Speaker 4: report or that they brought in that said he wrote
28:48
Speaker 4: the report. I asked him, did he see the police
28:53
Speaker 4: hit me? And he said yes. So then I asked him, then,
28:58
Speaker 4: why is it not written in the report that the
29:01
Speaker 4: police struck me. The lieutenant looks and he's like, I said,
29:07
Speaker 4: It's not in the ticket, is not in the two
29:09
Speaker 4: firm reports. It's not in any document that was given
29:13
Speaker 4: to me. So the lieutenant asked the CEO, why is that?
29:20
Speaker 4: And maybe at this time he was afraid. I don't
29:22
Speaker 4: know what it is, but I believe that at this
29:24
Speaker 4: point in time, this is when I've seen God worked
29:26
Speaker 4: in my life. And he tells the truth. He says,
29:31
Speaker 4: I didn't write the report. The lieutenant said, you didn't
29:34
Speaker 4: write the report. He said, no, I didn't write the report.
29:36
Speaker 4: He said, who wrote the report? He said, a sergeant
29:39
Speaker 4: such and such wrote the report? He said, where was
29:43
Speaker 4: the sergeant when the incident happened. He wasn't there. The
29:48
Speaker 4: sergeant wrote the report, made another officer sign it and
29:52
Speaker 4: sait in the hearing as the officer who witnessed what
29:56
Speaker 4: took place and knew nothing about it. And they dismissed
30:01
Speaker 4: the case.
30:03
Speaker 2: Amen to that, or you might not be here now.
30:06
Speaker 2: So and we know now that you paroled. And I
30:11
Speaker 2: want to get to that, because that's a really extraordinary
30:15
Speaker 2: story in and of itself. I think it says a
30:17
Speaker 2: lot about what the parole board really thought about your
30:21
Speaker 2: claims of innocence. But before we get to that, I
30:25
Speaker 2: want to talk about what was going on on the outside.
30:29
Speaker 2: Because there was a guy in the neighborhood. I mean,
30:32
Speaker 2: can we mention his name?
30:33
Speaker 4: Well, for legal purposes, you know, I wouldn't like to
30:36
Speaker 4: mention his name. It called my case is still being
30:38
Speaker 4: reviewed by the Convention Review Unit. So, but this individual
30:42
Speaker 4: was a childhood friend of mine. We haven't seen each
30:46
Speaker 4: other in years, and he had moved away from the neighborhood.
30:49
Speaker 4: And when he came back to the neighborhood, he was looking,
30:53
Speaker 4: you know, for old friends. And you know, subsequently he
30:55
Speaker 4: was looking for me and heard that I was in prison.
30:58
Speaker 4: So he wanted to know why, and the whole story
31:02
Speaker 4: came out and he couldn't believe it. You know, he
31:05
Speaker 4: took it upon himself to try to help me.
31:07
Speaker 3: How do you do that?
31:08
Speaker 4: Well, the individual who actually committed a crime used to
31:12
Speaker 4: see him all the time, and because he's still living
31:14
Speaker 4: in the neighborhood, mostly people that knew both of us,
31:18
Speaker 4: he would ask them, you know, how they felt about him.
31:21
Speaker 4: It was he still you know, like welcome or they
31:24
Speaker 4: still had love for him, knowing that I was in
31:27
Speaker 4: prison serving time for a crime that he committed. And
31:31
Speaker 4: my friend, he was like he couldn't believe this, and
31:34
Speaker 4: he's like, this guy just keep saying that he did it.
31:38
Speaker 4: He did it, and he's the reason why you in prison.
31:41
Speaker 4: You know, he wrote me a letter. I showed you
31:43
Speaker 4: the letter that he wrote. And he took it upon
31:46
Speaker 4: himself too to record this individual, to tape them saying
31:51
Speaker 4: the same things about me being in prison for a
31:53
Speaker 4: crime he committed, and even went as far as that
31:58
Speaker 4: he used to he does security bouncing work because he's
32:01
Speaker 4: six eight, three hundred and something pounds, and this is
32:04
Speaker 4: God again in my life. He so happened to be
32:08
Speaker 4: working doing security at a spot where detective Calibri's, the
32:15
Speaker 4: leading detective in my case, was also working. What's the
32:19
Speaker 4: odds of that?
32:22
Speaker 2: Pretty long?
32:24
Speaker 4: And he spoke to Calibres about the case and told
32:28
Speaker 4: him that he had the wrong person in prison for
32:31
Speaker 4: the crime. What Calbri's say, Calabris just told him tell
32:34
Speaker 4: his brother to come forward and he can get out.
32:39
Speaker 4: That was his words. See, because Calabri's knew and he
32:45
Speaker 4: had told me as much. When he brought me in,
32:49
Speaker 4: you know, because he was like, where's your brother, weighs
32:51
Speaker 4: his friends, and I'm like, I don't know. I'm not
32:54
Speaker 4: my brother's keeper. You know, I don't live with my brother.
32:58
Speaker 4: I live with my wife. But he didn't care about that.
33:01
Speaker 4: And you know, once things start to unravel in the
33:05
Speaker 4: conviction review unit and they start to review my case,
33:09
Speaker 4: they reached out to him two to three weeks after
33:12
Speaker 4: they reviewed my case and next thing, you know, self
33:17
Speaker 4: inflicted wound somewhere in his car. You know, he took
33:21
Speaker 4: his own life.
33:23
Speaker 2: Yeah, it seems like his conscience may have gotten to him.
33:26
Speaker 2: And we'll never know because he didn't leave a note
33:29
Speaker 2: or anything, right, but the timing seems.
33:31
Speaker 4: Really to be suspicious.
33:35
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, the conviction review unit starts looking into
33:38
Speaker 2: your case, it's inevitable that they're going to find out
33:40
Speaker 2: what happened. Because the conviction Review Unit in Brooklyn, I
33:43
Speaker 2: can say this, they don't fuck around. But these guys
33:45
Speaker 2: are under the leadership of American Zales and before that
33:48
Speaker 2: Ken Thompson. They are committed to finding and identifying and
33:53
Speaker 2: resolving wrong for conviction cases. And they've been doing it
33:55
Speaker 2: and walking the walk and so once they took over
34:00
Speaker 2: investigating your case. Yeah, Detective Calabrizi must have known that
34:05
Speaker 2: some of his misdeeds were going to become public.
34:09
Speaker 4: Yes, he did everything from interviewing the witnesses to getting
34:14
Speaker 4: the fillers for the lineups, conducting the lineup. I mean,
34:19
Speaker 4: nobody else did anything. His name is on all the reports.
34:22
Speaker 2: So the guy who holds the key is dead.
34:25
Speaker 3: Now you went to the parole board.
34:35
Speaker 2: Yes, and you did exactly the opposite of what All
34:39
Speaker 2: the smartest people you knew were the most the wisest people,
34:41
Speaker 2: I should say, were advising you to do right.
34:44
Speaker 4: I'm not gonna lie, you know. I was very apprehensive
34:48
Speaker 4: and rustle with it. You know. As my wife was here,
34:51
Speaker 4: she would tell you, you know, because knowing what I
34:56
Speaker 4: know now, I had told her and I told her
34:58
Speaker 4: before that if I had a chance to do this
35:02
Speaker 4: all over again, I probably would have copped out to
35:05
Speaker 4: something less right.
35:06
Speaker 2: So I was gonna say is when you go to
35:08
Speaker 2: the parole board, the general rule, and this is with
35:10
Speaker 2: very very rare exceptions, the parole board wants to hear
35:13
Speaker 2: you express remorse for the crime, whether you committed it
35:17
Speaker 2: or not. They don't know whether you committed it. They
35:19
Speaker 2: don't have time to reinvestigate it. In New York State,
35:22
Speaker 2: the parole board is reviewing ten thousand cases, around ten
35:25
Speaker 2: thousand cases a year, and there's only somewhere between twelve
35:28
Speaker 2: and nineteen people for the entire state in panels of three.
35:31
Speaker 2: So they have a few minutes to look into your case.
35:34
Speaker 2: They don't have time to go through it, even like
35:36
Speaker 2: we're doing now. So it would be great if they did,
35:39
Speaker 2: but they don't. They're only human beings, They only you know,
35:41
Speaker 2: they don't have so much time in the day. So
35:43
Speaker 2: the logical thing to do for somebody like you who's
35:46
Speaker 2: desperate to get out and get back with your family
35:48
Speaker 2: and get back on, you know, to your life, is
35:51
Speaker 2: to just plead guilty. And then they're most likely going
35:55
Speaker 2: to say, okay, well you've served twenty three years and
35:57
Speaker 2: you've done you know, ministry and all that. There's other
36:00
Speaker 2: stuff in prison. Yeah you can go home now. But
36:03
Speaker 2: you didn't know.
36:04
Speaker 4: And I mean I wrestled with it. I prayed about
36:07
Speaker 4: it because I want to go home. You know, what
36:12
Speaker 4: should I do? I mean, even though all these years
36:14
Speaker 4: I'm telling them I didn't commit the crime, now I'm
36:17
Speaker 4: up for parole. What do I do Do I go
36:22
Speaker 4: in there and put on a show and say that
36:25
Speaker 4: I'm remorse and I'm sorry and that you know, you know,
36:30
Speaker 4: I don't know what to say but the truth. And
36:33
Speaker 4: I wrestle with it. And I mean, like people is
36:36
Speaker 4: telling me, don't go in there and tell them that
36:38
Speaker 4: you didn't do it. They're going to hit you, They're
36:40
Speaker 4: going to give you more time. And I say, well,
36:44
Speaker 4: I'm going in there and I'm going to tell them
36:46
Speaker 4: what I've been telling them since the beginning. I didn't
36:49
Speaker 4: commit the crime, but I understand why it's possible for
36:54
Speaker 4: individual like me to be considered for a crime such
36:58
Speaker 4: as this, you know. And I'm gonna give them my
37:02
Speaker 4: story about my past, how I came to be here today,
37:07
Speaker 4: and what I've done since I was incarcerated, and what
37:10
Speaker 4: I plan to do when I get out. And for
37:15
Speaker 4: that whole ten days after that, I had to wait
37:18
Speaker 4: to get the results, seven to ten days. It was
37:22
Speaker 4: the worst week of my life. No no sleep because
37:29
Speaker 4: that whole week I already felt because the way that
37:31
Speaker 4: they spoke to me inside the parole board, I felt
37:35
Speaker 4: that there wasn't going to release me. My counselor gives
37:38
Speaker 4: me the envelope. I opened it, and to be honest,
37:41
Speaker 4: my eyes are teared up because I'm and I'm looking
37:45
Speaker 4: for the worst. And it's sad to say I'm looking
37:47
Speaker 4: for denial. I'm just looking for any word with a
37:50
Speaker 4: D for denial, refuse, whatever. And I didn't see and
37:54
Speaker 4: my counselors like you okay, I said, yeah, I just
37:59
Speaker 4: I can't find the decision. So he's like, well, give
38:04
Speaker 4: it to me, and he highlights it he knew before
38:10
Speaker 4: and he gave it back to me, and I couldn't
38:14
Speaker 4: believe it. They let me go and I'll be lying
38:21
Speaker 4: out of there, you know, call my family and told
38:25
Speaker 4: him and there was overjoyed, but it was it's still
38:34
Speaker 4: a lot now just thinking about it.
38:37
Speaker 2: I can't imagine. Nobody can imagine that hasn't been through it.
38:39
Speaker 4: You know, that was the best moment for me in prison.
38:47
Speaker 4: That and learning some stuff about myself because you know,
38:50
Speaker 4: like I became the director of that used as system
38:52
Speaker 4: program and I used to mentor teens that used to
38:56
Speaker 4: bring high school kids in and I used to speak
38:58
Speaker 4: to them about my life, life story, about how I
39:01
Speaker 4: end up serving a life. Scientists for a quim I
39:03
Speaker 4: didn't commit and how easy it is full you to
39:07
Speaker 4: find yourself in situations like this by the company that
39:10
Speaker 4: you keep in, the choices that you make, and the
39:14
Speaker 4: bro shure that I penned had the title. You know,
39:18
Speaker 4: you never get a second chance for first impression.
39:21
Speaker 2: It's been an extraordinary experience for me getting to know
39:25
Speaker 2: you and learning about your story. Of course, you know,
39:31
Speaker 2: I thank you for coming in and sharing it, and
39:34
Speaker 2: I think that through your words it's going to inspire
39:38
Speaker 2: a lot of people to keep fighting whatever they're up against.
39:42
Speaker 2: And now it's time for my favorite part of the show.
39:45
Speaker 2: Fans of the podcast know that this is the time
39:49
Speaker 2: when I turn off my microphone and just sit back
39:55
Speaker 2: and leave your microphone on. For closing arguments.
39:59
Speaker 4: I guess the one of the most things that I
40:01
Speaker 4: could possibly say is for jurors, because district attorneys is
40:06
Speaker 4: going to be them. They trying to win cases. Officers
40:10
Speaker 4: are trying to lock people up. But as a juror,
40:14
Speaker 4: it is your job to discern the truth, to find
40:19
Speaker 4: the truth, and sometimes I guess they get more clouded
40:24
Speaker 4: by what took place as opposed to what is the truth,
40:31
Speaker 4: and so emotions come into play with everything as opposed
40:35
Speaker 4: to rational and that's why you can find individuals such
40:39
Speaker 4: as myself in positions like this where you can do
40:43
Speaker 4: time for a crime you didn't commit, because people's emotions
40:47
Speaker 4: are more tied up in the event, but not trying
40:51
Speaker 4: to find the actual truth when they sit on jerors
40:54
Speaker 4: on jury. I believe part of that outside of what
40:58
Speaker 4: the district attorney did it detective did, the jurors are
41:03
Speaker 4: the ones who has the final say, and if they
41:07
Speaker 4: don't use rationale to decipher the truth from the garbage
41:11
Speaker 4: that is being spewed out there, that's why there's so
41:14
Speaker 4: many of us in prison. Ruefully, anyone out there that
41:19
Speaker 4: is going through a situation such as this, just continue fighting.
41:24
Speaker 4: No one knows what the future holds and his hope.
41:35
Speaker 2: Don't forget to give us a fantastic review wherever you
41:38
Speaker 2: get your podcasts.
41:39
Speaker 3: It really helps.
41:40
Speaker 2: And I'm a proud donor to the Innocence Project and
41:43
Speaker 2: I really hope you'll join me in supporting this very
41:46
Speaker 2: important cause and helping to prevent future wrongful convictions. Go
41:50
Speaker 2: to Innocence Project dot org to learn how to donate
41:53
Speaker 2: and get involved. I'd like to thank our production team
41:56
Speaker 2: Connor Hall and Kevin Wartis. The music in the show
41:59
Speaker 2: is by three I'm Oscar nominated composer Jay Ralph. Be
42:02
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Speaker 2: on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction podcast. Wrongful Conviction with Jason
42:10
Speaker 2: Flam is a production of Lava for Good Podcasts and
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Speaker 2: association with Signal Company Number one