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The Only Cure Is More Shec**k · Like a Virgin

0:03
Speaker 1: Have I fucked a doctor?
0:05
Speaker 2: I have not fucked a doctor. Have I fucked someone
0:08
Speaker 2: with a doctorate?
0:10
Speaker 1: I'm sure you have.
0:11
Speaker 2: That sounds more like me.
0:14
Speaker 1: She's Sheen, I'm me, No.
0:17
Speaker 2: May not my name? Yoo yoh? What is your childhood?
0:25
Speaker 1: I am a choky?
0:29
Speaker 2: What's going down before?
0:31
Speaker 1: Like you?
0:32
Speaker 2: So round, Hey, Virgins. So this week we are skipping
0:47
Speaker 2: the chit chat and getting right to the meat and
0:49
Speaker 2: potatoes of the conversation. We got a lot going on
0:52
Speaker 2: this week. Lucky for you if you are deprived of
0:56
Speaker 2: some news catch up. We always have our patreon available
0:59
Speaker 2: to you at patreon dot com slash like a Virgin,
1:02
Speaker 2: So get into that while you await our return for
1:05
Speaker 2: chit chat. Today we are talking about doctors and medical things.
1:13
Speaker 2: A lot of uh deep trans personal conversations happening here.
1:19
Speaker 2: It's a bit of a fun and different episode for
1:21
Speaker 2: us because this is like a Virgin, the show where
1:24
Speaker 2: we give yesterday's pop culture today's takes.
1:26
Speaker 1: As always, I'm Fran Toronto, I'm Rose DomU.
1:30
Speaker 2: Are you ready to talk about the medical industrial complex?
1:35
Speaker 1: Yeah? Cough twice, got it? Okay, you want to play
1:41
Speaker 1: doctor Fran?
1:42
Speaker 2: Actually, maybe you should play the doctor.
1:44
Speaker 1: Okay, we're gonna play doctor, but not in I guess
1:48
Speaker 1: the sexy way, although I never played like sexy doctor.
1:51
Speaker 2: I'm not promising anything. I can't. I can't not promise sexual.
1:54
Speaker 1: So it could get heated in here, heated by on
1:57
Speaker 1: tip tip tip on hard floors. Okay, so let's play doctor.
2:00
Speaker 1: I'm going to be the doctor. Okay, Okay, So you're
2:07
Speaker 1: you're like in the You're in the room, You're in
2:09
Speaker 1: the examination room, and you've been waiting bear asked for
2:12
Speaker 1: like forty five minutes, at least forty minutes, and someone
2:15
Speaker 1: has already come in and misgendered me. Yes, okay, scoom,
2:19
Speaker 1: that's the door opening. Hi mixed terrada.
2:24
Speaker 2: But I don't know if that's what my medical forms say.
2:27
Speaker 2: But I really appreciate the gender affirming way you just
2:29
Speaker 2: addressed me. Thank you doctor.
2:31
Speaker 1: Well, you're wearing a shirt that says everybody knows I'm
2:33
Speaker 1: a transsexual, so I figured it was a safe assumption
2:37
Speaker 1: to make thank you do. So, Fran, is it fran
2:42
Speaker 1: to tell me? Tell me what brings you in here today?
2:45
Speaker 2: So I recently had a gonorrhea and chlamydia scare, and
2:49
Speaker 2: I feel like you know, because I've slept with these partners,
2:52
Speaker 2: I should get tested and maybe also get a shot.
2:54
Speaker 2: I also need my hormone levels checked. And there's something
2:57
Speaker 2: weird on my foot. If you could also look at.
2:58
Speaker 1: It, great, So you know, without examining you, I think
3:01
Speaker 1: I can diagnose you. And the diagnosis I would give
3:04
Speaker 1: is that you're a whore.
3:07
Speaker 2: Doctor, I would say, that's a completely accurate diagnosis. Thank
3:10
Speaker 2: you so much for your time.
3:12
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know what, I got the medicine for that.
3:14
Speaker 1: Oh and what's the medicine this fucking checock?
3:25
Speaker 2: I got a fever and the only cure is more chic.
3:28
Speaker 1: I mean, this is literally the way my appointment at
3:31
Speaker 1: callan Lord went weeks ago.
3:33
Speaker 2: Oh you got sucked by your doctor, doctor in a way,
3:36
Speaker 2: in a way I feel like, honestly, there's something when
3:40
Speaker 2: you said that, it kind of reminded me of that
3:42
Speaker 2: scene in.
3:42
Speaker 1: This fucking cock continue, sorry, reminded.
3:48
Speaker 2: Me of what was the Rachel Vice show series that
3:50
Speaker 2: we just watched with. Oh uh, what the fuck is it?
3:55
Speaker 2: Called Ringers? Which I never finished, which you never finished?
3:59
Speaker 2: So dead Ringers a show we already discussed. There's a
4:02
Speaker 2: scene in it an immaculate scene in it where one
4:05
Speaker 2: of the Rachel vices is talking to this guy and
4:08
Speaker 2: his wife in a doctor's office, and the wife briefly
4:11
Speaker 2: leaves and then she basically in a matter of seconds,
4:15
Speaker 2: goes him into pulling out his cock so she can
4:17
Speaker 2: look at it. It's so good. It's one of the
4:21
Speaker 2: best doctor scenes I've ever seen in my test. Did
4:25
Speaker 2: you ever watch grays Anatomy?
4:27
Speaker 1: Of course I watched.
4:28
Speaker 2: I have watched zero episodes. What can you tell me?
4:32
Speaker 1: So it's about surgeon and.
4:36
Speaker 2: It's about mostly.
4:37
Speaker 1: It's about Sandra. Well, it's about this girl, Meredith Gray,
4:40
Speaker 1: who is part of a class of residents who come
4:44
Speaker 1: to a hospital, and it's about them becoming doctors and
4:49
Speaker 1: also falling in love and you know, making lots of
4:53
Speaker 1: bad decisions and it I'm sure it really does not
4:59
Speaker 1: resemble the medical field in any way in any way,
5:02
Speaker 1: but it is very entertaining. I want to hold space
5:11
Speaker 1: for our audience as I'm sure that thinking about doctors
5:17
Speaker 1: or the medical field in any way, or the pharmacypally
5:21
Speaker 1: probably somewhat traumatic.
5:24
Speaker 2: So you know, this will not really be a triggering episode,
5:28
Speaker 2: though we're gonna shoo sh about how horrible is.
5:33
Speaker 1: Honestly, doctors are the wa U do Doctors are people
5:40
Speaker 1: who ostensibly exist to help us, and in practice are
5:50
Speaker 1: frequently horrible.
5:52
Speaker 2: Yeah, And the thing that we need to know about
5:54
Speaker 2: them is that generally speaking, they are running a business
5:58
Speaker 2: and a lot of them aren't interested in your medical
6:01
Speaker 2: care at all. And I think that honestly, you know, doctors,
6:04
Speaker 2: you know, have gotten this societal have achieved this societal
6:09
Speaker 2: placement where like they're questions so infrequently and they're they're
6:13
Speaker 2: just like, oh, yeah, whatever you say goes because you
6:15
Speaker 2: went to a bajillion years of school and could afford that,
6:17
Speaker 2: and now you are in this place and probably make
6:19
Speaker 2: zillions of dollars doing it. But everyone should be skeptical
6:24
Speaker 2: of their doctors.
6:24
Speaker 1: Did you ever want to be a doctor? No, thank god,
6:27
Speaker 1: No I did. I wanted to be a surgeon, mostly
6:31
Speaker 1: because of Grey's anatomy. But I but I realized very
6:34
Speaker 1: quickly that I was not smart enough because you have
6:38
Speaker 1: to wait, very smart and remember so much stuff to
6:41
Speaker 1: be a doctor, and that there was no way I
6:44
Speaker 1: could stand for that long to do surgery.
6:47
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, you, I mean, when you're a doctor, you
6:50
Speaker 2: have to be on your feet for like twelve, fourteen,
6:53
Speaker 2: nineteen hours a day, Like it's insane.
6:55
Speaker 1: Can't do that. That's why they wear such ugly shoes.
6:56
Speaker 2: That's why they wear such ugly shoes and such ugly
6:58
Speaker 2: clothes too. I mean, I know people are trying to
7:00
Speaker 2: like really up the scrubs game. They're like these influencer
7:03
Speaker 2: scrubs figs or whatever, but like those are not that
7:05
Speaker 2: cute either.
7:06
Speaker 1: So I used to wear scrubs as a kid a
7:09
Speaker 1: lot because my dad, my dad worked at the hospital,
7:14
Speaker 1: and I don't know, because he used to like bring
7:17
Speaker 1: them home and whenever we spent the weekend at his house,
7:20
Speaker 1: like after my parents got divorced, like that's always what
7:22
Speaker 1: I would wear to sleep was in the hospital. I
7:26
Speaker 1: do think I've talked about this before, my intense love
7:29
Speaker 1: for hospital food because we used to go visit my
7:33
Speaker 1: dad for the hospital at the hospital, and he would
7:35
Speaker 1: take us to the cafeteria.
7:36
Speaker 2: Do you still like hospital food?
7:38
Speaker 1: I do have this weird appreciation for kind of institutionalized
7:46
Speaker 1: food that is made in huge batches, like airplane food,
7:50
Speaker 1: like airplane food, cafeteria food of any kind, and hospital
7:55
Speaker 1: food really gives me that When was the last time
8:00
Speaker 1: you were in a hospital as a patient that wasn't
8:03
Speaker 1: just like an appointment, Like when was the last time
8:06
Speaker 1: you needed care from the hospital in a sort of
8:09
Speaker 1: extended way as a patient? I mean, have I already
8:12
Speaker 1: told you the story about when my long spontaneously collapsed? No?
8:17
Speaker 2: Apparently No. Okay, let me see if I can tell
8:21
Speaker 2: the short version. The short version is I was in college.
8:25
Speaker 2: I was working as an eighteen hour credit student. I
8:27
Speaker 2: was also a closeted smoker, which was something that I
8:29
Speaker 2: kept for my boyfriend at the time. And it's just
8:32
Speaker 2: an extremely stressed out, very skinny person. I was probably
8:36
Speaker 2: like one hundred and thirty five one hundred and forty
8:37
Speaker 2: pounds as a consequence of a recently healed eating disorder
8:41
Speaker 2: back in twenty whatever the fuck?
8:43
Speaker 1: Okay I rushed music videos.
8:45
Speaker 2: Sorry, yeah, I'm not skinny. I mean I'm still skinny,
8:48
Speaker 2: but whatever. Anyways, this is all relevant information because one
8:51
Speaker 2: day I was in the library of studying for an
8:53
Speaker 2: Italian test because I took Italian because I had read
8:56
Speaker 2: epre Love and thought it was a phenomenal piece of.
8:58
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I was watching epray Love this morning.
9:00
Speaker 2: What what for work for? What it was for work?
9:04
Speaker 2: And I leaned over the back of my chair and
9:07
Speaker 2: I heard a little pup and I was like, what
9:09
Speaker 2: was that, James, Well, what was that, James? And then
9:14
Speaker 2: I leaned back over and I was like, oh, like
9:16
Speaker 2: my back was cracking.
9:17
Speaker 1: That was weird.
9:17
Speaker 2: And then I was experiencing what was probably the worst
9:20
Speaker 2: possible pain I've ever experienced in my entire life. And
9:23
Speaker 2: I was like, what the fuck just happened? And then
9:25
Speaker 2: in my head, I was like, is this what it
9:27
Speaker 2: feels like when people throw their back out? Like is
9:31
Speaker 2: am I experiencing like back problems for the first time?
9:34
Speaker 2: And anyways, I, you know, was too poor, like I
9:38
Speaker 2: it was at a time and honestly still is that
9:40
Speaker 2: time where it's like I'm not going to go to
9:41
Speaker 2: the doctor's office just to give them fifty dollars to
9:43
Speaker 2: like tell me that like, I, you know, broke my
9:45
Speaker 2: back or whatever, or that my back is like hurting.
9:49
Speaker 2: It's just like, yeah, I knew that. But I went
9:52
Speaker 2: two full days wandering around campus being an eighteen hour
9:56
Speaker 2: credit student. I was a commuter biker. I jogged every
9:58
Speaker 2: single day five mile. I did all of that for
10:02
Speaker 2: two days and an excruciating kind of quote unquote back pain,
10:06
Speaker 2: which I found out was not a back pain when
10:08
Speaker 2: I finally did go to urgent care and then they
10:10
Speaker 2: did an X ray on me and they were like, yeah,
10:12
Speaker 2: so you had a spontaneous pneumothorax. You literally only have
10:16
Speaker 2: one lung right now and have had one lung for
10:19
Speaker 2: two days. You need to go to the er immediately.
10:22
Speaker 2: Would you like an ambulance? And they fixed it like
10:25
Speaker 2: fifteen minutes. It's actually a really simple surgery, and it's
10:28
Speaker 2: an incredibly common thing that happens to a very small
10:31
Speaker 2: number of people who are usually stressed and or really
10:34
Speaker 2: skinny and or smokers. And I was all three at
10:36
Speaker 2: the time.
10:37
Speaker 1: Did you have to be put under anesthesia?
10:40
Speaker 2: I don't think I did need to, but I was like,
10:44
Speaker 2: you're doing that. I'm like not going to be awake
10:46
Speaker 2: for this, like I do. I can't experience that.
10:48
Speaker 1: Being put under anesthesia is so cunty. It's so nice,
10:51
Speaker 1: Like I I got something done in when was it
10:57
Speaker 1: like twenty twenty one? That's I don't know if you
11:01
Speaker 1: remember this. I had a.
11:02
Speaker 2: Little and.
11:06
Speaker 1: I just like that feeling of like being conscious one
11:12
Speaker 1: moment and then suddenly awake another moment, completely somewhere else
11:17
Speaker 1: under very different circumstances is such a gag.
11:21
Speaker 2: Yeah, wait, okay.
11:22
Speaker 1: That's how I wish I fell asleep every night. Okay,
11:25
Speaker 1: I want to be put under anesthesia every night. That
11:27
Speaker 1: would be very bad for your brain. Cares, but who cares.
11:32
Speaker 2: Estheticians are probably making bank for not that big of
11:34
Speaker 2: a skill set.
11:35
Speaker 1: Right.
11:35
Speaker 2: You have to go to so much less school to
11:36
Speaker 2: be an esthetician, right.
11:38
Speaker 1: Or an estheticianth ansty ziologist.
11:42
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what it is. That's what they're called. I
11:47
Speaker 2: am Okay. Have you ever had a doctor that you
11:49
Speaker 2: liked slash? Is it our doctor from La Doctor V?
11:53
Speaker 1: Doctor V? I loved doctor V and I do miss him,
11:56
Speaker 1: although so I recently restarted care at Colin Lore because
12:00
Speaker 1: since I moved back here, I have been saying over
12:03
Speaker 1: and over that I wanted to find a doctor at
12:05
Speaker 1: a private practice. I really didn't want to go to
12:07
Speaker 1: a queer health center. And then I realized my estrogym
12:11
Speaker 1: was running out, and I was like, fuck, I guess
12:13
Speaker 1: I just have to go back to coun lord, because
12:15
Speaker 1: it's just the easiest thing, even though it is not
12:18
Speaker 1: easy in literally any way. But I'm going to the
12:21
Speaker 1: Brooklyn one, so that makes things like marginally better. But yeah,
12:26
Speaker 1: I really missed doctor V, our gay ass doctor from.
12:29
Speaker 2: LA, the gayest doctor, such a competent, like runs his
12:34
Speaker 2: practice like a machine, a well oiled machine.
12:37
Speaker 1: I miss And he's hot. He is hot.
12:40
Speaker 2: Yeah, he was hot.
12:41
Speaker 1: I got recommended him from and it was like, this
12:45
Speaker 1: is a gay doctor that all the girls go all
12:47
Speaker 1: the girls go to.
12:48
Speaker 2: Yeah kind of yeah, and I he So I worked
12:50
Speaker 2: with doctor V for a bit and then there was
12:52
Speaker 2: someone else in his practice, and doctor Jake Collins, who
12:55
Speaker 2: then became my primary care physician and also put me
12:57
Speaker 2: on estradeal honestly, which is kind of a big deal.
13:00
Speaker 2: And my whole experience of that was so seamless and
13:04
Speaker 2: easy and unquestioned. I loved it, and I love doctor Collins,
13:08
Speaker 2: and honestly, so this is in COVID era and so
13:11
Speaker 2: everybody was still in masks one hundred percent of the time,
13:13
Speaker 2: so I didn't really know what doctor Collins looked like.
13:17
Speaker 2: But one day I was scrolling through Instagram, and turns
13:20
Speaker 2: out he's like a hot doctor influencer and he has
13:24
Speaker 2: a kick in bod and the most gorgeous face I've
13:26
Speaker 2: ever looked at in my entire life, one that I've
13:28
Speaker 2: never seen because it's always been under a mask. And
13:30
Speaker 2: I was like, what the fuck this man just had
13:32
Speaker 2: his like rubber gloved fingers in my whole, like checking
13:35
Speaker 2: for prostate cancer or whatever. Yeah, but I would love
13:39
Speaker 2: to fuck a doctor. I would love to marry a doctor.
13:42
Speaker 2: I would love to marry it.
13:44
Speaker 1: Because they would not be home a lot.
13:45
Speaker 2: Yeah exactly.
13:46
Speaker 1: Oh, and they would get me, you know, they would
13:49
Speaker 1: prescribe me whatever I want to wait, you know, those
13:52
Speaker 1: pills forever.
13:53
Speaker 2: You know what really fulfills this fantasy for me of
13:56
Speaker 2: being married to a doctor is the kids are all right,
13:58
Speaker 2: starring on at Benning and Julian More because Annette Benning
14:02
Speaker 2: is famously kind of the tied up, stuck up like
14:05
Speaker 2: work bitch doctor mom, and like her like over commitment
14:09
Speaker 2: to work is like part of what is like wedging
14:11
Speaker 2: her relationship to Anette Benning that in the fact that
14:14
Speaker 2: she's like fucking the gardener. But I just remember bearing
14:18
Speaker 2: witness to their relationship and how loving and supportive it was,
14:22
Speaker 2: and I was like, yeah, you know, in a gay relationship,
14:24
Speaker 2: a lot of times there's an Annette and there's a
14:27
Speaker 2: Julianne Moore, and I'm always the Annette. But I would love.
14:30
Speaker 1: Oh and I'm the julian of this relationship. I'm definitely
14:33
Speaker 1: the Julianne. I would I'm on the redhead.
14:35
Speaker 2: I would disagree because you're very get shit done. But yeah,
14:38
Speaker 2: I guess, like on paper because your redhead, you like
14:40
Speaker 2: legally do have to be Julianne Moore. However, I would
14:43
Speaker 2: say I wish I was the Julianne Moore. And I
14:45
Speaker 2: feel like I would like to have a relationship where
14:47
Speaker 2: I'm the Julianne Moore and the one that's just kind
14:49
Speaker 2: of like, I don't really know what I'm doing for
14:52
Speaker 2: my career. I'll start like four businesses. Can I buy
14:55
Speaker 2: a truck?
14:55
Speaker 1: Mommy?
14:56
Speaker 2: Like that's what I want to be, but I'm not.
15:00
Speaker 2: Then maybe one day, maybe one day, I'll be taken
15:02
Speaker 2: care of by a daddy.
15:02
Speaker 1: Doctor. You know what doctors always make me think of
15:05
Speaker 1: is my is Highlights magazine? Do you remember Highlight? You
15:10
Speaker 1: remember it was like the magazine for parents and it
15:12
Speaker 1: was always in the pediatricians office.
15:15
Speaker 2: Yeah, with that geo kids, Yeah, I mean a Nickelodeon magazine.
15:19
Speaker 1: Did you grow up hating going to the doctor.
15:23
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm pretty sure my parents didn't have We didn't
15:26
Speaker 2: have fights about it, which was great, Like I knew
15:28
Speaker 2: I had to go, but I hated. Yeah, I hated doctors.
15:31
Speaker 2: The only doctors I enjoyed going to were eye doctors.
15:34
Speaker 2: I think the I think weird. I think taking eye
15:36
Speaker 2: exams is really fun.
15:38
Speaker 1: Do you are you squeamish about giving blood?
15:42
Speaker 2: No, I'm not. I'm a little bit of a baby sometimes,
15:45
Speaker 2: but like I just look at my phone now and
15:47
Speaker 2: I'm fine because I feel like I have to get
15:49
Speaker 2: blood work done all the time because I'm gay.
15:51
Speaker 1: What about you, I like actively enjoy giving blood.
15:56
Speaker 2: You're like peah, I mean, oh, that's all you're gonna take.
16:00
Speaker 1: Well, I do have some more. Something that's happened in
16:04
Speaker 1: the past couple of years is I apparently my veins
16:06
Speaker 1: are really hard to find, either because I have like
16:09
Speaker 1: I don't know, like thick skin, or they're like really
16:12
Speaker 1: recessed or something. So it usually takes the nurse a
16:15
Speaker 1: really long time to find my veins and toms. Sometimes
16:18
Speaker 1: they will have to insert the needle in many times
16:22
Speaker 1: before they find you love in. I love it a
16:25
Speaker 1: little bit. I mean I really don't have a problem
16:28
Speaker 1: with like doing doing my shots. You know, when I
16:31
Speaker 1: inject estrogen, I I just like am not squeamish about
16:37
Speaker 1: blood all Like I never flinch when a needle gets
16:41
Speaker 1: put in me. The other day, I was getting tattooed,
16:44
Speaker 1: and like my friend who was doing my tattoos, like
16:46
Speaker 1: kept asking are you okay? Are you okay? And I
16:48
Speaker 1: was like, yeah, I'm fine. I mean up until like
16:50
Speaker 1: the fourth I haven't even seen your new tattoo yet.
16:53
Speaker 1: I have five new tattoos.
16:55
Speaker 2: Okay, we'll see them after I fall asleep during tattoo appointments,
16:58
Speaker 2: especially now that I get stick in pokes from my
17:00
Speaker 2: friend Elliott. Those are like jet they feel nice, they
17:03
Speaker 2: feel like good.
17:05
Speaker 1: The first four were fine, and then once we.
17:07
Speaker 3: Got to my leg that started to become a little
17:10
Speaker 3: bit of an issue.
17:31
Speaker 1: Obviously. Like when you're trans you know, doctor, and I think,
17:37
Speaker 1: just like being queer in general, like doctors become a
17:40
Speaker 1: much bigger part of your life. Because before I started
17:44
Speaker 1: medically transitioning, I saw a doctor you know, on a
17:49
Speaker 1: like a good decade, you know, once every couple of years,
17:53
Speaker 1: you know when I was a kid, obviously I saw
17:54
Speaker 1: I saw a doctor like once a year for a physical.
17:57
Speaker 1: But you know, being trans like you have to be
18:01
Speaker 1: much more aware of what's going on in your body.
18:03
Speaker 1: And then also if you factor being on prep into it,
18:07
Speaker 1: then you have to see a doctor every three months
18:10
Speaker 1: to get your blood work done. I I don't know,
18:15
Speaker 1: Like I think I now feel a lot less intimidated
18:22
Speaker 1: by medical stuff than before I started transitioning. Like there
18:26
Speaker 1: were definitely in my sort of like lawless twenties from
18:30
Speaker 1: college to when I started transitioning. Like in my later twenties,
18:36
Speaker 1: I like I didn't go to the doctor for years.
18:38
Speaker 1: I like had no idea what was going on in
18:40
Speaker 1: my body. But I was also young enough that it
18:42
Speaker 1: didn't really matter, Like I was always bouncing back from this.
18:44
Speaker 1: That's kind of tea, Like we really should get regularly
18:47
Speaker 1: checked up, especially when it comes to like screenings and
18:49
Speaker 1: cancer stuff, but for the most part in your early twenties,
18:52
Speaker 1: like you do not need to be This is like
18:54
Speaker 1: such terrible advice, but it's true. You may so much
18:57
Speaker 1: to just visit the doctor because you're supposed to as
19:00
Speaker 1: especially when it comes to like dentists and I doctors
19:02
Speaker 1: and all this shit, and then you end up throwing
19:04
Speaker 1: away so much money on copays in medicine you don't
19:06
Speaker 1: actually need or like things that you never asked for
19:10
Speaker 1: and you don't need it, like you're gonna be fine
19:12
Speaker 1: through your twenties, like go to the hour when you
19:14
Speaker 1: need to. But now in my mid thirties, I'm medicated,
19:16
Speaker 1: boots boots down.
19:18
Speaker 2: And let me tell you, just buy within an inch
19:20
Speaker 2: of my life medicated because health insurance.
19:25
Speaker 1: Don't even get me started. I'm still on my California
19:29
Speaker 1: health insurance have not changed.
19:31
Speaker 2: So you're paying like six hundred dollars a month.
19:33
Speaker 1: No, no, no, I'm paying like nothing. Oh. I'm on the
19:36
Speaker 1: health insurance that I got when I left my last
19:39
Speaker 1: job and went on unemployment. Oh, I pay like nothing.
19:43
Speaker 1: And you were still covered by doctor V No no, no,
19:47
Speaker 1: I stopped going to doctor V.
19:48
Speaker 2: Oh but what but didn't Oh so you didn't have
19:51
Speaker 2: your insurance?
19:51
Speaker 1: No no no oh I see No I didn't do like
19:53
Speaker 1: the I didn't switch my health insurance. I went on
19:57
Speaker 1: like the very basic like Medicaid insurance I see, or medicare,
20:02
Speaker 1: which one is for old people, Medicare or Medicaid.
20:05
Speaker 2: I think Medicare is for old people. Okay, so Medicaid
20:08
Speaker 2: but oh no, no, no, a Medicare is for us. Medicaid
20:12
Speaker 2: is for.
20:12
Speaker 1: Old Well, it hasn't been a problem yet. I mean
20:16
Speaker 1: I haven't been to the doctor a lot this year.
20:18
Speaker 1: I only went for the first time outside of like
20:23
Speaker 1: going to urgent care when I had strapped throat. I
20:25
Speaker 1: just went to Calen Lord for the first time to
20:30
Speaker 1: start care there again, and like they didn't even have
20:33
Speaker 1: my current email or phone number, like it is it's
20:36
Speaker 1: been a while. And I the day that I went
20:42
Speaker 1: to calen Lord, I saw two people I knew, and
20:46
Speaker 1: then afterwards I tweeted something about Callen Lord and someone
20:52
Speaker 1: I mutuals with messaged me and was like I sent
20:55
Speaker 1: this to my friend at calen Lord and they were like, oh,
20:57
Speaker 1: Rose Damu was just here.
20:59
Speaker 2: So it's like everyone knows. It's so bad.
21:01
Speaker 1: It's so annoying, and like that sounds very annoying to say, like,
21:05
Speaker 1: but it is like the place where there's high the
21:09
Speaker 1: highest likelihood that someone will recognize one of us, because
21:14
Speaker 1: like it is very It's like when I went to
21:15
Speaker 1: see Caroline, Polo Jack and Ethyl Kane, Like I knew
21:17
Speaker 1: that was a place where people were going to come
21:19
Speaker 1: up to me and like know who I was because
21:21
Speaker 1: they listened to this podcast or like follow me on
21:23
Speaker 1: Twitter or whatever. And the Venn diagram between people who
21:28
Speaker 1: go to a Caroline Polcheck Ethyl Kane show and people
21:30
Speaker 1: who go to Callen Lord is basically a circle. And
21:34
Speaker 1: that is honestly like the last place where I want
21:39
Speaker 1: to have an awareness that people have an awareness of me,
21:44
Speaker 1: you know, And like that's very like not a relatable problem,
21:47
Speaker 1: So I don't want to give it any more airtime.
21:50
Speaker 1: But it is weird too, because like when you are
21:53
Speaker 1: doing medical stuff, especially as a trans person, you are
21:57
Speaker 1: making yourself extremely vulnerable. And that's not when I want
22:01
Speaker 1: to be worried about like someone being like like oh
22:05
Speaker 1: my god, I love oh my god, I love your Twitter.
22:07
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like, don't I mean to have the sense
22:10
Speaker 2: to like not walk out to or acknowledge people at
22:13
Speaker 2: the doctor when they're at the doctors. I hope people
22:16
Speaker 2: at least know that, But like, no, I experienced the
22:18
Speaker 2: same thing. I love Calm Lord. I stand like a
22:20
Speaker 2: lot of the fundraising or organizing that they do, but
22:23
Speaker 2: for my needs I go to APACHA, which is a
22:27
Speaker 2: comparable like medical initiative for trans people, and I get
22:32
Speaker 2: recognized there. I've seen people I know there. But I
22:35
Speaker 2: will say, from my experience, because everybody I'm talking to
22:39
Speaker 2: or potentially being recognized by are like queer trans, it
22:43
Speaker 2: is a little easier to be there because I'm like, Okay,
22:45
Speaker 2: we're all here for probably the same or similar reason.
22:50
Speaker 2: So I don't feel a type of way about it.
22:52
Speaker 2: But yeah, I think it's not much to ask for
22:54
Speaker 2: privacy in your place of medical care. You know what
22:58
Speaker 2: I mean. That shouldn't be It shouldn't be a thing.
23:01
Speaker 1: I know. It feels like doctor patient confidentiality. I extend
23:04
Speaker 1: to like being at any kind of medical center.
23:08
Speaker 2: I'm also realizing, actually that what you've named is actually
23:11
Speaker 2: such a problem that I do. I do wear sunglasses
23:14
Speaker 2: when I go into the doctor's office because I'm like,
23:16
Speaker 2: I I wear hat, I wear sunglasses. I was like,
23:18
Speaker 2: I don't want I don't want anybody talking.
23:19
Speaker 1: He was like, going to Colin Lord a couple of
23:21
Speaker 1: weeks ago. I made sure that I like looked okay,
23:24
Speaker 1: because I was like, I know, I'm going to at
23:27
Speaker 1: the very least run into people that I know.
23:31
Speaker 2: And when we went to the doctor, when we went
23:32
Speaker 2: to doctor V, honey, we were stunting. I love. I
23:37
Speaker 2: looked so good for doctor V. I was like, I
23:40
Speaker 2: was like, this is a nice little medical facility, and
23:42
Speaker 2: these are some nice young men touching me.
23:46
Speaker 1: I miss doctor V so much and the way he said.
23:49
Speaker 3: But but boot.
23:53
Speaker 1: There was a period when I was in college when
23:56
Speaker 1: I used to watch a lot of surgery videos. What.
24:00
Speaker 2: Yeah, but this was after you already decided you're not
24:03
Speaker 2: going to be a surgeon anymore.
24:04
Speaker 1: Yeah, but like like in my in my like early
24:08
Speaker 1: to mid twenties, I used to watch surgery videos on
24:10
Speaker 1: YouTube a lot for fun. Yeah. Ah, yeah, like the
24:16
Speaker 1: that's kind of gory, like open heart surgery.
24:18
Speaker 2: So you're not squeamish about that.
24:20
Speaker 1: I actually have become a lot more squeamish in my
24:23
Speaker 1: old age. Yeah, I see, I can't do It's not
24:28
Speaker 1: the gore that bothers me. It's sort of like weird
24:32
Speaker 1: body stuff that bothers me, like weird holes and things
24:35
Speaker 1: like that.
24:37
Speaker 2: I have a question, Yeah, are there weird holes? H
24:41
Speaker 2: Are there any sort of medical appointments or plans you
24:46
Speaker 2: are making for yourself in any sort of future that
24:51
Speaker 2: you have to then go to a doctor for.
24:55
Speaker 1: Are you asking me if I want to get gender.
25:00
Speaker 2: You and I have talked about FFS before, and at
25:01
Speaker 2: a certain point you really wanted it, and now you
25:04
Speaker 2: kind of don't. I don't know if that's on the you.
25:05
Speaker 1: No, I do want it, and I'm kind of in
25:08
Speaker 1: a moment of like looking at my life and figuring
25:11
Speaker 1: out what I want now, being like a year out
25:15
Speaker 1: from having left a corporate job and like being a
25:17
Speaker 1: full time creative and something I want that you and
25:21
Speaker 1: I have talked about is like I do think I
25:23
Speaker 1: want to have a job again, And a big part
25:25
Speaker 1: of that is that I do kind of kick myself
25:28
Speaker 1: for not taking advantage of having really good healthcare when
25:32
Speaker 1: I had a corporate job and just getting a lot
25:35
Speaker 1: of gender affirming surgery. So that is part of the
25:40
Speaker 1: appeal to me of having a job again, is just
25:42
Speaker 1: like being able to get a lot of really cunty
25:44
Speaker 1: plastic surgery, and like, that is something I want and
25:48
Speaker 1: I have gone so back and forth on it because
25:51
Speaker 1: I am one of the few trans women I know
25:56
Speaker 1: who's had no gender affirming surgery, and I would wow,
26:02
Speaker 1: would you say few, you would say few. I think
26:05
Speaker 1: most trans women I know well have had stuff done
26:14
Speaker 1: and like, you know, I don't think we need to
26:15
Speaker 1: talk about like our friends and I've not done, but
26:19
Speaker 1: you know, like it is a passage now expect it is,
26:23
Speaker 1: it is expected, and like especially too, I don't know,
26:28
Speaker 1: but kinds of dolls, yeah, certain kinds of dolls, and like,
26:31
Speaker 1: I have gone back and forth so much over you know,
26:36
Speaker 1: the past seven years about whether it's something I want
26:40
Speaker 1: or not, and I've I've swung really far on the
26:44
Speaker 1: pendulum both ways at different times, and I I guess
26:48
Speaker 1: I am at a point now where I it is
26:52
Speaker 1: something that I want. I'm not sure what, I'm not
26:54
Speaker 1: sure when I'm not sure how severe. But yeah, I
26:59
Speaker 1: mean there's is part of me that just wants to
27:01
Speaker 1: like fully redo your face transform in some way.
27:06
Speaker 2: I mean, who doesn't. It's such a it's such a
27:09
Speaker 2: wish fulfillment thing, like very like the Swan very Disney
27:14
Speaker 2: princess Asque, like the posts end or fundraisers and or
27:19
Speaker 2: parties that we witness to in Brooklyn for the dolls
27:23
Speaker 2: and their ffs creates this kind of reveal that I
27:28
Speaker 2: think is really amazing and beautiful to behold. But then
27:31
Speaker 2: it also creates this kind of standard of something that
27:34
Speaker 2: you want to be a part of, because who because
27:37
Speaker 2: I know, I you know, look says people. Gender firming
27:41
Speaker 2: care is not about beauty, but also it is, and
27:46
Speaker 2: we all want to be beautiful, and and when we
27:49
Speaker 2: get when we come out of surgery, we are pushing
27:52
Speaker 2: a button and dropping thousands of dollars or our insurance
27:55
Speaker 2: companies are dropping thousands of dollars to make us more beautiful.
27:59
Speaker 2: And that is more often than not for our literal
28:02
Speaker 2: safety and or daily psychological survival. But also like, not
28:08
Speaker 2: everyone needs it, not everyone should have to feel pressured
28:10
Speaker 2: to get it, but you.
28:12
Speaker 1: Know, it is. I do really like that. I know
28:15
Speaker 1: so many people who have had really like the whole
28:18
Speaker 1: spectrum of gender affirming care, and so I have people
28:22
Speaker 1: that I can ask about their experiences. Like last year,
28:24
Speaker 1: I was considering having an orchaectomy and talk to people
28:28
Speaker 1: that I knew who had had one, and ultimately decided
28:30
Speaker 1: that it was not for me at that moment. Maybe ever,
28:34
Speaker 1: I don't know, And right now, like something that's been
28:38
Speaker 1: on my mind a lot is like vocal cord surgery
28:40
Speaker 1: because my voice is the thing that I'm probably the
28:42
Speaker 1: most dysporic about, although recently a lot of people have
28:45
Speaker 1: been telling me that they love my voice and that
28:48
Speaker 1: they find it very soothing. And when we were on
28:52
Speaker 1: Fire Island, that was the thing that made people recognize
28:55
Speaker 1: me the most. Like it happened multiple times on the boardwalk.
28:58
Speaker 1: Someone would hear me talking and then turn and around
29:00
Speaker 1: and be like, oh my god, I love your podcast.
29:02
Speaker 1: So that's funny.
29:03
Speaker 2: That's a high compliment, but also kind of even further
29:06
Speaker 2: encouraging reason to do it so that you've become even
29:09
Speaker 2: more uncor And.
29:11
Speaker 1: There's someone there's someone who I follow on TikTok right
29:14
Speaker 1: now who is about to start or who is about
29:17
Speaker 1: to get vocal court surgery. So I'm just very I'm
29:20
Speaker 1: very interested in and she is someone who creates a
29:24
Speaker 1: lot of content about their transition, so I'm very interested
29:27
Speaker 1: to see what that process is like for her, And
29:30
Speaker 1: you know, maybe at some point in the future do
29:33
Speaker 1: that for myself. But you know, like that's not necessarily
29:36
Speaker 1: something I'm ever going to be super public about, and
29:41
Speaker 1: I don't think I like necessarily owe it to talk
29:44
Speaker 1: to anyone about it. And I also like fully feel
29:47
Speaker 1: like I have the right to to do it all
29:52
Speaker 1: or to absolutely change my mind and do none of it.
29:55
Speaker 1: And you know, because like it's not like unfortunately, like
30:02
Speaker 1: as we're talking about doctors, like gender firming care specifically
30:06
Speaker 1: is not just about you and your gender and like, uh,
30:13
Speaker 1: the way you like appear in the world. It also
30:15
Speaker 1: is about navigating and extremely like transphobic and like bureaucratic industry,
30:24
Speaker 1: and like going to doing any kind of medical care
30:28
Speaker 1: is extremely daunting, and especially stuff that's like very tied
30:34
Speaker 1: to your gender is just a nightmare. And I also
30:37
Speaker 1: just hate bureaucracy and like filling out forms that is
30:41
Speaker 1: probably the thing that the has the most prohibited me
30:46
Speaker 1: from getting from getting any gender firming care is like
30:50
Speaker 1: scheduling appointments, having to deal with insurance companies like that.
30:56
Speaker 1: If honestly, if like when I was like a corporate batty,
30:59
Speaker 1: if I could have paid someone to like you could have,
31:02
Speaker 1: I probably could have, and I should have paid me.
31:05
Speaker 1: And that is something that I kicked myself for. It's
31:07
Speaker 1: like I should have like hired like a like a
31:10
Speaker 1: transition assistant.
31:13
Speaker 2: Actually that has to be a thing. It probably already is.
31:16
Speaker 1: Yeah, someone out there if someone out there, if you're
31:17
Speaker 1: looking for like a new a new industry, like a
31:21
Speaker 1: cottage industry to start, you should be like a like
31:25
Speaker 1: transition doula doula.
31:27
Speaker 4: Yeah, so maybe like you and also not like you.
31:49
Speaker 2: So I honestly feel very comfortable on the podcast talking
31:53
Speaker 2: about a lot of things that I otherwise wouldn't in
31:55
Speaker 2: mixed company or on social media. So like, I honestly
31:59
Speaker 2: feel great talking about like surgery stuff here. And also, like,
32:04
Speaker 2: you know, if when I do ever get I mean,
32:06
Speaker 2: when I do eventually get like gender affirming care of
32:09
Speaker 2: any kind, I will absolutely talk to anyone about it
32:13
Speaker 2: if they're also seeking care, because that exchange of information
32:17
Speaker 2: is just so crucial, not just referrals whether you had
32:20
Speaker 2: a good experience, what you did, what didn't go well,
32:23
Speaker 2: things like that, things that you wish you had done.
32:26
Speaker 2: I've already had n FFS consultation at a doctor that
32:31
Speaker 2: two of my girlfriends went to. I'm not doing it
32:35
Speaker 2: through my insurance. I'll do electrolysis through my insurance. I
32:39
Speaker 2: would do a few other things through my insurance, but
32:41
Speaker 2: I'm not doing my FFS through my insurance because I
32:44
Speaker 2: was like, I'd much rather wait until I am wealthy
32:47
Speaker 2: enough to pay for it because I want the best
32:53
Speaker 2: that I can get, and that doesn't that's not to
32:55
Speaker 2: say that there are, there isn't the best that you
32:57
Speaker 2: can get under your insurance, but to do it through
32:59
Speaker 2: and insurance is a longer process with a longer waiting
33:02
Speaker 2: list and a slimmer and a slimmer group of people
33:05
Speaker 2: to choose from, depending on what stay you're in and
33:09
Speaker 2: like what like like what part of the country you're in,
33:12
Speaker 2: and that's something where it's just like I would pay
33:15
Speaker 2: to not have to deal with that, And I'm also
33:18
Speaker 2: just not on a corporate insurance anymore, so I might
33:20
Speaker 2: as well pay out a pocket right, if.
33:22
Speaker 1: There's anyone out there who's listening to this podcast who
33:24
Speaker 1: wants to give us free surgery, No, but that's let
33:27
Speaker 1: us know, wait, this is so relevant. So I actually
33:30
Speaker 1: would never do spawn con surgery like and that is
33:34
Speaker 1: I'm saying knowing full well that that is a free
33:37
Speaker 1: like thirty forty fifty thousand dollars like a worth of work.
33:42
Speaker 1: Like I would never because I don't want people to
33:45
Speaker 1: like look at my face and be like, yeah, that
33:48
Speaker 1: was the face brought to you In part by doctor
33:50
Speaker 1: Lee LSPC. Sorry I name dropped Caitlin Jenner and Dylan
33:55
Speaker 1: mulvaney's FFS surgeon, but like I but like I just
33:58
Speaker 1: don't want that, like no offense, Like I have no
34:00
Speaker 1: compst with Dylan mlvany. I think that everybody needs to
34:02
Speaker 1: do what they need to do, and her bag is influencing.
34:04
Speaker 1: There's nothing wrong with that. But it's just like that's
34:06
Speaker 1: not my bag, that's not the bad, that's not what
34:08
Speaker 1: I want.
34:08
Speaker 2: To be associate. That's not how I want people to
34:11
Speaker 2: see me. And I don't want a little tag on
34:14
Speaker 2: my face everywhere I go. You know what, That sounds
34:18
Speaker 2: really anti capitalist, but it's actually just vain, Like I'm
34:21
Speaker 2: just vain, and I don't want people to think that
34:23
Speaker 2: I brought it. So like when I do get FFS
34:26
Speaker 2: and any other gender firming care in that pool, I'm
34:29
Speaker 2: not talking about it on social media like I'm disappearing.
34:33
Speaker 2: All my friends will know I'm disappearing, and you will
34:35
Speaker 2: see me back beautiful as a butterfly. It's such a
34:38
Speaker 2: weird thing to talk about, honestly just because of the
34:41
Speaker 2: beauty aspect, but also just like how weirdly we conflated
34:46
Speaker 2: the medicalization of transnis with transnis itself, which is like
34:49
Speaker 2: a conversation we don't have the time to have. But
34:54
Speaker 2: I am endlessly grateful for all the girls that have
34:57
Speaker 2: already done it and have been so willing to die
35:00
Speaker 2: document fully on their stories and or close friends, like
35:05
Speaker 2: the fluid draining, the stitches that they have, the weirdness
35:08
Speaker 2: of how it sets in, like how much they can
35:10
Speaker 2: talk or move their mouth like crazy. Detailed experiences of
35:16
Speaker 2: medical transition now exists online on YouTube, on Instagram because
35:23
Speaker 2: of this information exchange and also because of everyone's hunger
35:26
Speaker 2: to be a little famous.
35:27
Speaker 1: There was this girl on Twitter recently who shared this
35:31
Speaker 1: text she had sent her dad who when this one
35:36
Speaker 1: time her dad misgendered her and she sent him a
35:39
Speaker 1: text of her post op pussy and was like, it's
35:44
Speaker 1: she who by.
35:46
Speaker 2: Word, that's how you do it?
35:48
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that is so cunned.
35:50
Speaker 2: Literally keep them serving cun am I right?
35:54
Speaker 1: Wait?
35:54
Speaker 2: What does she say, Luanne, Oh, I hope you keep
35:58
Speaker 2: on serving cunts? I actually voice is kind of giving
36:00
Speaker 2: her any are I hope you keep on serving conta?
36:05
Speaker 2: That was not.
36:06
Speaker 1: Should we should we do one last doctor? Role? Play
36:09
Speaker 1: before we sign off.
36:10
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, okay, you're the doctor this time. Hi, I'm
36:15
Speaker 2: doctor Luhanne. How are you doing today, young lady.
36:22
Speaker 1: I'm great. So I'm here because I really want to
36:27
Speaker 1: get Lady Gaga born this way cheekbones and I know
36:31
Speaker 1: that you're like pre eminent in this field. Oh yes, we.
36:35
Speaker 2: Have that procedure on our kind of offerings pamphlet here.
36:40
Speaker 1: So what are the cheekbones made out of?
36:42
Speaker 2: Well, okay, I'll have to ask. Hang on, let me
36:45
Speaker 2: bring her out. We have Val from Glow up here,
36:47
Speaker 2: who is going to be actually, oh my god, vow
36:53
Speaker 2: dang Dong.
36:55
Speaker 1: My name is Val.
36:58
Speaker 2: I think you'll say is smashing and you don't need
37:02
Speaker 2: a damn thing. Don't get f FS raise dom you.
37:06
Speaker 2: That's kind of Australian.
37:07
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, but Val, it is my right to choose
37:13
Speaker 1: surgery for myself. So get that scalpel out and put
37:17
Speaker 1: your whole pussy into these cheekbones.
37:19
Speaker 2: Dang Dong, you are so right, You are so right,
37:24
Speaker 2: a rose. What can I let me just get the
37:29
Speaker 2: scalpel right now.
37:32
Speaker 1: That's a chain, so that's not a scalp.
37:34
Speaker 2: No, No, this is right, This is a right can
37:39
Speaker 2: you insert like chain saw noises. Stick around for a
37:49
Speaker 2: little preview of this week's Patreon episode, absolutely free to you.
37:54
Speaker 2: If you want to listen to the entire episode, you
37:57
Speaker 2: can mosey over to our Patreon at Patreon dot com
38:00
Speaker 2: slash Like a Virgin.
38:02
Speaker 1: Currently we're doing recaps of and Just Like That and
38:05
Speaker 1: lots of other fun exclusive content for our paywall princesses.
38:11
Speaker 1: You can also buy our merch at like a Virgin
38:13
Speaker 1: four twenty sixty nine dot com. Follow us on Instagram
38:17
Speaker 1: at Like a Virgin four twenty sixty nine. You can
38:19
Speaker 1: also follow me anywhere you walk at Rosdamue.
38:22
Speaker 2: You can find me at Friends, squish Goo, anywhere you like.
38:25
Speaker 1: Like a Virgin is an iHeartRadio production. Our producer is
38:28
Speaker 1: Phoebe Unter, with support from Lindsay Hoffman and Nikki Detour
38:32
Speaker 1: until next week. I guess so it's never really over
38:36
Speaker 1: just because it SERVI doesn't miniaturally literally, and maybe you'll
38:40
Speaker 1: becoming again. Talk to me about polysecure, girl.
38:50
Speaker 2: I'm not finished enough with poly secure to give you
38:52
Speaker 2: a full overview, but I will definitely tell you that
38:55
Speaker 2: I know your attachment style and mine now.
39:00
Speaker 1: And I feel that's what's what's mine.
39:02
Speaker 2: Well, they're not like rigid labels, so I don't want
39:04
Speaker 2: to like kind of like foreclose that onto you. And
39:07
Speaker 2: I'm also nonprofessional, so I won't. I won't really, I
39:09
Speaker 2: won't really describe more on the podcast, but.
39:12
Speaker 1: I don't know. I want to hear it. No, you
39:15
Speaker 1: said it. Now you have to diagnose me.
39:16
Speaker 2: Okay, So for the virgins, everybody has like kind of
39:19
Speaker 2: combination attachment styles a lot of the time. So this
39:23
Speaker 2: is only one of your attachment styles, but I know
39:27
Speaker 2: that one of them is this.
39:33
Speaker 1: What did you like underline it in the book and
39:35
Speaker 1: said this is.
39:36
Speaker 2: Rose No, No, I didn't. Oh, it's called dismissive attachment.
39:43
Speaker 1: Explain more.
39:44
Speaker 2: Well, it's just like when because of of how you
39:49
Speaker 2: are cultured and who you are, that you're you're used
39:53
Speaker 2: to keeping people at an arm's length, which is true
39:55
Speaker 2: when once again, like these are not like damning labels
39:58
Speaker 2: that like prove who people are are they are they
40:00
Speaker 2: are crutches that you know, we default to if we're
40:05
Speaker 2: not plugged into like what it means to actually connect
40:07
Speaker 2: with the person, which you are fully capable of.
40:09
Speaker 1: Obviously, I don't want.
40:12
Speaker 2: To unless you don't want to but like, I mean,
40:13
Speaker 2: it's this. I mean my attachment style is like anxious
40:16
Speaker 2: or like or avoidant, like or combo of those.
40:20
Speaker 1: I would say, I would say, we're anxious, You're not really,
40:25
Speaker 1: I don't actually see you as an avoid.
40:28
Speaker 2: No, I'm I'm someone who well, it depends on the
40:32
Speaker 2: circumstance and the relationship, because I am someone who can
40:35
Speaker 2: shut people out of my brain and existence if I
40:39
Speaker 2: want to, Like, I can be very out of sight,
40:42
Speaker 2: out of mind, or like I can just choose to
40:44
Speaker 2: not care about certain things in ways that I find avoidant.
40:47
Speaker 2: But I'm also just not a professional. And I haven't
40:49
Speaker 2: finished the book, so I think, like in a follow
40:52
Speaker 2: up book, Corner, I'm definitely going to talk more about
40:55
Speaker 2: poly Secure. Maybe we'll talk about Paul's politics the form
40:57
Speaker 2: of Immortal Girl. Although I do say that every year
40:59
Speaker 2: I've read months I say I'm going to read the
41:01
Speaker 2: book that you're doing.
41:03
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't really see I think this was us
41:05
Speaker 1: talking about it.
41:06
Speaker 2: Yeah. That all that is to say, poll Secure is
41:10
Speaker 2: something that I'm reading just because it's like relevant to
41:13
Speaker 2: my life now, and I think that polyamorous relationships are fascinating.
41:20
Speaker 2: I have no I don't have a ton of like
41:23
Speaker 2: knowledge about them. And I think that regardless of whether
41:26
Speaker 2: you are Polly or not, and I'm not, you can
41:31
Speaker 2: learn a lot from poly forms of attachment and poly
41:37
Speaker 2: structures of relationships because they're so much more liberated. I
41:41
Speaker 2: think that's really cool. I also don't know if I've
41:44
Speaker 2: ever seen a successful one happen.
41:47
Speaker 1: Yeah, I am trying to think of one. I, you know,
41:51
Speaker 1: was giving a friend relationship advice recently, and I won't
41:57
Speaker 1: go into too much detail, and I don't I'm not
42:00
Speaker 1: really qualified to give relationship advice, but I did end
42:04
Speaker 1: up saying that this thing that that I feel, which
42:09
Speaker 1: is that I think, as you know, evolved queer people
42:14
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty three, we are sort of expected to
42:19
Speaker 1: be okay with polyamory or to have it as the
42:25
Speaker 1: default in our relationships. And I wanted to, you know,
42:31
Speaker 1: what I told this friend was, it's okay if you're not,
42:36
Speaker 1: It's okay if you don't want, If it's okay to
42:40
Speaker 1: not want to have an open relationship, Like it's there
42:43
Speaker 1: is a reason why, Like I yes, I know, society
42:46
Speaker 1: is like fucked up and we live in like this
42:49
Speaker 1: horrible sycteropatriarchy, but like there is a reason why most
42:52
Speaker 1: people are in monogamous relationships and like it it's Oh,
42:57
Speaker 1: I'm not saying it's right, but I'm saying, like, it's
42:59
Speaker 1: okay to want that because we've been conditioned to want it.
43:04
Speaker 1: And you shouldn't force yourself to be in a polymagel.
43:08
Speaker 1: You shouldn't force yourself to be polyamorous because you think
43:11
Speaker 1: it's like the quote unquote right thing to do, as
43:16
Speaker 1: especially as a queer person, if you're forcing yourself to
43:19
Speaker 1: be poly for any reason, like you're already kind of
43:22
Speaker 1: setting yourself up for failure. I'll agree with a lot
43:26
Speaker 1: of what you said. You know, I think that monogamy
43:29
Speaker 1: should be challenged, and like if I could push a
43:32
Speaker 1: button and like relational fluidity where the default instead of monogamy,
43:40
Speaker 1: Like I think that society would change, right, Like monogamy
43:43
Speaker 1: is a product of a very specific kind of colonialism
43:49
Speaker 1: and just like how the operate, how the world operates
43:53
Speaker 1: in defaults because of like a kind of structure of
43:56
Speaker 1: marriage and partnership that we've created. And I think that
43:58
Speaker 1: polyamory is has been around for eons, yes, but is
44:03
Speaker 1: a very new tool to a lot of people who
44:06
Speaker 1: don't know how to use it.
44:07
Speaker 2: And I think that a lot of the reason that
44:10
Speaker 2: I find that poly relationships aren't working out is because
44:14
Speaker 2: one there's a person in the relationship who is acquiescing.
44:19
Speaker 2: They're coming into this poly relationship because they want to
44:22
Speaker 2: keep someone or because they don't want to seem like
44:25
Speaker 2: old fashioned and lo and behold, they're actually not Polly two.
44:30
Speaker 2: I feel like people can be sometimes extremely entitled or
44:35
Speaker 2: selfish about the number of partners they want to take on,
44:40
Speaker 2: probably as a product of previous trauma or attachment styles
44:45
Speaker 2: that led them to feel like they couldn't actually have
44:49
Speaker 2: one person they could be alone with. And then I
44:51
Speaker 2: also think that at the end of the day, we
44:56
Speaker 2: just the people that are in poly structures are not
45:00
Speaker 2: read up on how polyamory works. Yeah, and they should be.
45:05
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think it's very I think it's
45:07
Speaker 1: very admirable that you want to sort of do your
45:11
Speaker 1: research before you know, potentially entering any kind of polyamorous scenario. Yeah.
45:20
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't think I'm gonna do that, but
45:22
Speaker 2: I feel like I a lot of my friends are poly,
45:25
Speaker 2: and I feel like I myself when I like when
45:28
Speaker 2: I have a partner, I've never had an open relationship
45:30
Speaker 2: before even so I want to learn how to do that,
45:34
Speaker 2: and polyamory teaches you how to do that, how to
45:37
Speaker 2: be happy for your partner, how to experience compersion, how
45:40
Speaker 2: to mitigate and have a conversation with jealousy or ego.
45:44
Speaker 2: You know, those are things that I want to learn,
45:46
Speaker 2: even if I'm not Polly and so yeah, that's that's
45:48
Speaker 2: what I'm learning.
45:49
Speaker 1: I don't even know how to be in a monogamous relationship. Yeah,
45:52
Speaker 1: so like that's, yeah, that's kind of where i'm at.
45:56
Speaker 1: I'm not ready for the you know, the next I'm
46:00
Speaker 1: not ready for the two o two class of relationships.
46:04
Speaker 1: Kind to say, actually, I'm just gonna stay where i'm at.
46:10
Speaker 1: Love