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Female Firsts: Ethel Waters · Stuff Mom Never Told You

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Stephan
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Never told you a protection of iHeartRadio, and today it
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: is time for another edition of Female First, which means
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: we are once again thrilled to be joined by the wonderful,
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: the winning, the winsome, thieves.
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: Deaf coach, happy to be here. What does winsome mean
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: you have?
• 0:35
  Speaker 3: Well, somebody described me as winsome on their podcast, but
• 0:37
  Speaker 3: I had to go look it up. Is just kind
• 0:40
  Speaker 3: of like charming, like winning personality.
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: It's a compliment. It's good, Okay, I'll take it. I'm
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: here for it. I mean, I figure from the prefix
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: that wins would be pretty good contest clues, but I
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: really did not know what it means. But I'm here
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: for a little adult vocabulary learning. I was watching the
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: spelling when it was back on a few weeks ago,
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: and I was like, Wow, I want to be like them.
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: You know, I had. I had a little bit of
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: spelling be aspirations when I was young, but those never
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: materialized into anything.
• 1:12
  Speaker 4: Wait Atie, you won something, right? Yeah, I was in
• 1:16
  Speaker 4: the contest. I did not last. But Anie, you actually
• 1:19
  Speaker 4: won a spelling Bee contest?
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: Yet I did? I did?
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: I went.
• 1:22
  Speaker 3: I went to state, which is so sad now because
• 1:26
  Speaker 3: I really blame spell check. But I am not as
• 1:28
  Speaker 3: good as a speller anymore. But I was good back then.
• 1:32
  Speaker 3: But the word that I failed, I'm so mad about
• 1:36
  Speaker 3: it because I knew how to spell it. It was
• 1:38
  Speaker 3: aggravate and I said a R and you can't go back.
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: And I immed, was like, dang, all right, goodbye.
• 1:47
  Speaker 4: Their way.
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: But did you like walk away with your shoulders hunched
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: over in your hit down? I was mad.
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: I was like visibly angry.
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: That's worse than like spelling it wrong and not knowing
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: that's your spelling.
• 2:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I.
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: Like remember so.
• 2:05
  Speaker 3: And then somebody came up and asked me about it afterwards,
• 2:07
  Speaker 3: and I was like, I don't want to talk about it.
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like losing on a technicality. This is like
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: when people when they go to judge's decision. When I'm
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: watching UFC, I'm like, I need I need a clear win.
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: Why are the judges deciding this? That's what I need
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: to know.
• 2:24
  Speaker 4: Like the little competitions for like gymnastics, I did. I
• 2:27
  Speaker 4: did cheerleading inside. Look, but if you stepped off like
• 2:30
  Speaker 4: a part of the mat, you were an automatic. So
• 2:33
  Speaker 4: any person like got off at certain point, you're done.
• 2:36
  Speaker 4: That was one of those moms, So like why that
• 2:38
  Speaker 4: was so it wasn't based on our performance. It was
• 2:41
  Speaker 4: literally something right we was just a silly mistake.
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's all this anticipation and build up and
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: you know, yeah, it's.
• 2:51
  Speaker 3: A lot of pressure. I'm surprised you watched that use
• 2:54
  Speaker 3: that would like it makes me nervous when I.
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: Watched the well, you know what, it's so wholesome. There
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: aren't many things that are wholesome these days.
• 3:03
  Speaker 4: Oh that's true.
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: And just watching children spell knowing that they're the future
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: and they had the fortitude and the will power and
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: the focus and determination to study these words and their roots.
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: Since it's it's refreshing, it's lighthearted and it's just like
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: a breath of fresh air.
• 3:22
  Speaker 4: Did you have for someone specific? Did you have a favorite?
• 3:27
  Speaker 3: No?
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: And I think that's another part of why it's so wholesome,
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: because you're rooting for everybody, like there's no for me there.
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: It was like it was no competition, Like it was
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: like one person got out and I was like, oh,
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: that's unfortunate, and the next person comes up like, yes,
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: you got it, You got it, you can do it.
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: It's just like never ending warmth, like running through my
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: veins as I'm watching it.
• 3:49
  Speaker 4: You in general, because I have a feeling i'd pick
• 3:50
  Speaker 4: someone out just for spite. Yeah, I have weird hobbies anyway,
• 4:00
  Speaker 4: Like you're.
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: The one doing the online betting audio very niche community
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: of online better on spelling people win well kind of related.
• 4:17
  Speaker 3: When when y'all were young, did you ever imagine yourself
• 4:21
  Speaker 3: either having your own show or.
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: Being on like an interview show of type situation?
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: I did not, So I guess I'll go first, because
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: my answer isn't that interesting. I did not. I watched
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: interview shows when I was younger and liked that for
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: whatever reason, my brain really likes that. But I did
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: not ever want to be on a show. I'm also
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: not a person who wants to be in the limelight anyway,
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: So no, that wasn't me. I didn't want. I didn't
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: want like, I didn't want a real life show like
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: an interview show. I didn't want a fictionalized show. No,
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: I couldn't imagine myself there. So what about what about y'all?
• 5:05
  Speaker 4: That's the podcasters? Yeah, essentially, in my head, I'm the
• 5:09
  Speaker 4: cool person. So in that cool person zone, I'm very
• 5:13
  Speaker 4: cool and collective and all my answers are amazing. In
• 5:15
  Speaker 4: real life, I realize I freeze up real fast, and
• 5:18
  Speaker 4: I'm very anxious. I'm like, yeah, I can't do this.
• 5:20
  Speaker 4: Why did I think I wanted to do this? But yeah,
• 5:22
  Speaker 4: as a child, I'm like, yeah, this is absolutely I
• 5:24
  Speaker 4: could be an actress. I could be in a spotlight.
• 5:26
  Speaker 4: That would be an amazing person to receive this award.
• 5:29
  Speaker 4: This is a speech, and of course I would give
• 5:31
  Speaker 4: a speech. Who I would think and all these things,
• 5:33
  Speaker 4: and then in actuality being in front of people now
• 5:36
  Speaker 4: when we have like little panels or such, and I'm like, yep, nope,
• 5:39
  Speaker 4: never mind, just kidding, just kidding.
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: Real life hit you hard.
• 5:43
  Speaker 4: Yeah, You're like, oh no, no, yeah, I'm not equipped
• 5:45
  Speaker 4: for this.
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 5:49
  Speaker 3: I feel like I went through a stage where it
• 5:53
  Speaker 3: wasn't so much I wanted to be on interviewed for anything.
• 5:57
  Speaker 3: But I thought that I thought if I did do
• 6:00
  Speaker 3: what I wanted to do was, which was acting, I
• 6:03
  Speaker 3: would have to be on there. So I would like
• 6:06
  Speaker 3: kind of practice in my head what I would say,
• 6:09
  Speaker 3: what like would be the funny quips I would.
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: Have ready to go, and so it was.
• 6:15
  Speaker 3: It was a strange like now I'm with you Smith,
• 6:18
  Speaker 3: I would freeze up. I would not be funny. I
• 6:20
  Speaker 3: would obviously be like panicking and trying to be.
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: Play it cool.
• 6:24
  Speaker 3: I want to if I ever did become famous enough
• 6:28
  Speaker 3: that they wanted me on an interview show, I would
• 6:30
  Speaker 3: want to be one of those actors that just doesn't
• 6:31
  Speaker 3: do it.
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: You would never see them. That's the way to go.
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: That's what I want to.
• 6:38
  Speaker 3: Yes, I want to do the thing I love and
• 6:40
  Speaker 3: kind of be left alone about it exactly.
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: How very artists of you.
• 6:46
  Speaker 4: To say that, just me, let me be, let me
• 6:51
  Speaker 4: do my lart.
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: I have to say, it's very endearing that you plant
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: out your witty things, because I think when you think
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: of wit is something that comes fontaneously. So it's like,
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: let me be prepared to be off the cuff. I
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: can see searching through, like going through the rolodex. I
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: was gonna say roller dext too. I was like, that's
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: gonna date me.
• 7:13
  Speaker 4: But yes, you know, that's like a whole thing in
• 7:18
  Speaker 4: the Jane Austen's pride and prejudice that he collects compliments
• 7:23
  Speaker 4: to give to women so he can be prepared to
• 7:25
  Speaker 4: give off the cuff spontaneous compliment that he's already thought
• 7:29
  Speaker 4: of and written down, like that's part of his character,
• 7:32
  Speaker 4: and obviously calling out why he's not so smart he has.
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: To do it.
• 7:37
  Speaker 4: I feel a little int I'm not saying that.
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: Just like.
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: That's all right, you know, just behind the curtain.
• 7:47
  Speaker 3: Like I used to do that because I hate talking
• 7:49
  Speaker 3: on the phone, so I would write out. I would
• 7:51
  Speaker 3: write out, like, here are my bullet points of what
• 7:55
  Speaker 3: we're going to talk about. Heres Like literally it's.
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: A smart way to go, you know.
• 8:01
  Speaker 3: And now as you're listening to this podcast, you're like, what.
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: Is this all practiced? No?
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: No, I can be witty sometimes.
• 8:11
  Speaker 4: You're very You're very witty all the time.
• 8:15
  Speaker 3: Thank you. Well, I am really excited to talk about
• 8:20
  Speaker 3: the person you brought today, Eves.
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: So who are we going to be discussing today? We're
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: going to be talking about Ethel Waters. And that's why
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: we were talking about being in your own television show
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: because she was the first black American to start in
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: her own television show. So she had a bunch of
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: other specific firsts along the way, but she generally was
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: just a pioneering person when it came to theater and
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: stage entertainment and television and radio. She was a singer
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: and a little bit of a dancer, So she was
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: multi talented, that's for sure.
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: She was.
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  Speaker 3: She did a lot, and as I was kind of researching,
• 9:01
  Speaker 3: I was like, oh, and she did this. Oh yeah, yeah,
• 9:05
  Speaker 3: she's got quite the history. So shall we get into it.
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, let's so. She was born on October thirty first,
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  Speaker 2: eighteen ninety six, in Chester, Pennsylvania, and her mother was
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: Luisa tar Anderson and her father was John Wesley Waters.
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: There is mention of rape here, so just a content
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: warning before we get into that. John was a pianist
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: who died when Ethel was pretty young. He wasn't really
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: involved in her life anyway, though, and her Ethel's grandmother
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: raised her and didn't really want him around. It was
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: said that Ethel herself said, and also said in Etho's biographies,
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: that John raped her mother when she was young and
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: that's how she was conceived. Her mother was a teenager,
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: though her exact age at the time she was conceived
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: its unclear, but it is thought that John was somewhere
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: around the same age as Ethel mother. But anyway, Ethel
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: had a half sister named Genevieve, and Genevieve was the
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: child of Louisa and Norman Joseph Howard, who was Louisa's husband,
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: So basically Ethel's stepfather. Genevieve is kind of described as
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: being Louisa's favorite. So, like I said, Ethel was raised
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: by her grandmother, and there were times when Ethel would
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: be back with her mother, but it seemed like there
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: was this kind of tug of war between the two
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: of them, between her grandmother and her mother, and when
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: something went down, then she would get passed to her
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: mother and she would go back to her grandmother. But
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: Ethel herself had this fondness and warmth that she clearly
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: communicated in some of her quotes for her grandmother and
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: how she raised her. That said, a lot of her
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: childhood is described as being not the best. Ethel had
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: an education, but as author Donald Bogel puts it in
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: the biography, it was a spotty education. Ethel was born
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: in poverty and she had to fend for herself in
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: many situations, so she would do things like run errands
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: for pimps and sex workers to get money and this
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: seems like a thread throughout the rest of her life.
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: So obviously I didn't know Ethel Waters personally, but there
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: are biographies on her, and there are also statements from
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: other people who worked with her throughout the rest of
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: her life, and a general understanding of her persona in
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: the public and kind of her in her work life,
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: in her career, and there seems to be this kind
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: of through live for the hardness that she had to
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: have as a young child and the hardness that she
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: had to have as an adult, which is a very
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: complex thing for a black woman working in a difficult space.
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: So I don't want to take that too lightly or
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: be too flippant about it, because I know that things
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: were very complex for her. But there's this idea that
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: she didn't take bs from anybody through throughout her life.
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: And as Bogo also says in heat Waves, she developed
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: a quote unquote tough girl persona. There was a woman
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: named Butterfly McQueen who at the later worked with on
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: the Shell Beulah, and she said that quote she'd been
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: to the University of Heart Knocks, so she used four
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: letter words. So Ethel was tough and her childhood was tough,
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: so she was tough when she was young as well.
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: She developed a deep connection to Christianity when she was
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: young too. She went to Catholic school and she attended
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: different denominations of Christian churches. So, as a teenager, continuing
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: this need to help support herself and support the family,
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: she did domestic work. She did things like laundry, she cooked,
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: did dishes, and did childcare. And her income from these
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: jobs helped her and her grandmother take care of the family.
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: So we often hear this story. I think in all
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: a lot of the black women that we talked about
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: that they were doing domestic work around this time, so
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: the early nineteen hundreds. She was relatively tall too. She
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: was at least taller than average, I will say, not
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: super tall. She was around like five foot nine inches
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: by the time she was a teenager, which is something
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: that's called out in the way that she the presence
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: that she demanded in spaces. And when she was thirteen
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: years old, she married a man named Merritt Pearnsley. But
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: that marriage didn't go well. He didn't seem to be
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: a great person and there was some abuse in that situation.
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: She left that marriage after they'd been married for about
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: only a year. So going into her talents, it seemed
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: to be something that was in her family. So family
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: member on both of her parents' sides had musical talent
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: as singers and pianists. But she said Ethel said that
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: she never learned to play any instruments or read music,
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: but she still went on to have this great career.
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: Of course, not like those are the defining things that
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: means that somebody can be successful or have skill in
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: the area. But yeah, so she began attending things in
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: the arts and entertainment worlds like Latville shows. She saw
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: notable performers on stage who they sang, they danced, they
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: did comedy acts and ventriloquism and things like that in
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: those Potville shows. And it said in her biographies that
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: she wasn't really set on becoming a performer, like she
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: was like, I don't want to. I admire and appreciate
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: the people who were out there doing those things, but
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: I want to travel as a maid to a rich
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: white woman. But she said that she did enjoy her
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: own little performance and excitement in her daily life. She
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: went out to clubs, she sang and danced when she
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: went out with her colleagues when she worked at a hotel.
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: So there is a story about how she got into performing,
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: although although by this point she had been doing a
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: little performance. But she went to a party or a
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: club on her birthday in nineteen seventeen where she sang
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: in front of everyone and there were a couple of
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: agents there Braxton and Nugent with their names. They were
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: in the audience and they took an interest in her
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: after seeing her perform. They had put people on the
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: Chitlin circuit, which was where performers could go to black
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: theaters and clubs around the US. So this is how
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: she started moving into her performance career. So she already
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: was kind of surrounded by it, I mean family wise
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: and the kinds of entertainment that they were doing, but
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: also her own personal interest in attending and being in
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: these arts and entertainment spaces and also performing herself. So
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: it seemed like it was a kind of natural evolution
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: into her making it a career. It was clearly something
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: that she was interested in in a path that would
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: potentially be viable for her, and others saw that in
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: her as well. So Ethyl started out on the vaudeville scene,
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: and vaudeville just for a quick overview of it, was
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: a genre of theatrical entertainment that was popular in the
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: late nineteenth and early twentieth century. A Vauteville show was
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: made up of a bunch of different kinds of acts,
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: so it would depend on the show, but there would
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: be things like song, dance, comedy, play, skits, magic, and
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: other things like that. So the black entertainers who were
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: in Vauteville, they had a really big influence on American jazz,
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: comedy and musical theater. And Ethyl started out in this space.
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: She started out playing that black Vauteville scene, which of
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: course came with his own trials and challenges of you know,
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: sometimes going into white spaces and being on the black
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: Vauteville circuit. So issues of race did, of course come
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: up in her career. She started performing around the Baltimore area.
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: Then she began touring the US as a singer, and
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: she had this nickname, Sweet Mama string Bean, which she
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: was credited with sometimes apparently because she was skinny. I
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: don't really care for the name Sweet Mama string Bean.
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: I'm not one hundred percent sure like how how frequently
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: she was termed this, you know, if it was something
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: she was solely built at, or if it was like
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: some like there were both names involved or whatever. But
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: I don't think of string beans as something being a
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: positive image, So I don't know, it's pretty that's interesting
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: to me. And also the fact that it's about like
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: her body type is also a little weird. But I
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: guess they did that with like bigger people as well,
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: use terminology in their names around around that, but also
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: still a little strange either way, that was what it was.
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: And she performed in Vauteville houses in the South for
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: a while, but eventually she made her way north to
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: New York, where she sang in clubs in Harlem, notably
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: a venue called Edmunds Cellar, And so she started doing recording.
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: She was doing these live performances too, but she also
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: did recordings. She did her first recording with the Cardinal
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: Company in nineteen twenty one, and she later joined the
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: Black Oat jazz and blues recording company called black Swan
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: and she made records with them for a couple of years.
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: And around this time blues recordings were really popular, and
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: particularly race records were popular. That kind of terminology that
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: they've been geting, which were songs by black artists for
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: targeted at black consumers. So pretty it was pretty straightforward.
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: The Race records and like no pretty much transparency about
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: what they were doing and what they were for. But
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: they were popular at the time. And in nineteen twenty five,
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: At the Waters took the place of the popular singer
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: Florence Mills at the Plantation Club and this was a
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: big moment. There are a few big moments for turning
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: points in her career for her success, but she did
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: a song Dinah, and she started singing it there and
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: it became a big hit. And according to Stephen Bourne
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: in a bio he wrote about At the Waters, it
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: was the first international hit to come from a nightclub review.
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: So here she is growing in popularity. She's pretty, she's
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: garnering attention around her name and around the works that
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: she's doing. And she had a ten year contract with
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: Columbia Records. She started making recordings for them in nineteen
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: twenty five and she moved on to Broadway. So in
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: nineteen twenty seven she had her first Broadway appearance in
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: the production Africana. So she was clearly she was clear
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: about her talents. She knew what she had and what
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: she was working with, and wasn't afraid to transition into
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: other feels that were related to what she was doing.
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: So in nineteen twenty nine, she had her first on
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: screen appearance in the film On with the Show, and
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: in that film she performed the songs Birmingham, Bertha, and
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: am I Blue. That movie was marketed as the first
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: all color, all talking, all singing film, which feels like
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: one of those very specific things was sus like, you're
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: really trying to get the first in. I get it.
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: I'm not really sure what all singing means all talking,
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: but yeah, it was what it was, and Ethel was
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: in it, and she was in many more Broadway shows
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: and films after that. These shows were things like reviews,
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: so a review is like a theatrical production that includes
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: multiple acts like song, dance, and sketches. She was in
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: short musicals and then eventually feature films, and she was
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: performing alongside these other big names and with other famous
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: people who were in Hollywood. So Stormy Weather was a
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: song that was written by composer Harold Arlen and by
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: lyricist Ted Kohler, and that was another of Ethyl's hits.
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: So if you go look up Ethel Waters, you'll probably
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: see stormy Weather come up. She sang it at the
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: nineteen thirty three Cotton Club Parade and it was well
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: received there. So the Cotton Club was a venue that
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: was in New York City, and the Cotton Club Parades
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: were musical reviews that were held there, and they would
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: do some of those annually. So according to the author
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: Stephen Born again, he said that she'd always said that
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: stormy Weather was a turning point in her career, and
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: she recorded it in May of that year for Columbia Records.
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: So also, once again, if you like look up stormy Weather,
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: you'll see that other artists, plenty of other artists later
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: recorded their own versions of that song, and they became
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: associated with it and garnered that song more international attention,
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: and like also garnered more attention than Ethel Water is
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: kind of being more remembered for stormy Weather than Ethel
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: Waters was, even though she did get her credit for
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: what she did with that song and how she popularized it.
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: So yeah, so her career is taking off, she's getting work,
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: and she's garnering success for it. But of course in
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: the midst of all this career. You know, these people
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: have their own personal lives to live. She got married
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: a couple more times after that first marriage. That second
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: time was to close Edward Matthews, also known as Eddie,
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: and then the third time she wasn't married to him
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: that long, and the third time she was married to
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: another at Eddie, this time Eddie Mallory. So Eddie Mallory
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: was a trumpet player, and the two of them went
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: on the road together and they recorded together, but their
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: relationship didn't last long either. That ended. But in Ethel
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: waters biographies it's said that she liked women romantically and
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: had a romantic relationship with Ethel Williams, though Waters herself
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: never really spoke about it publicly, but she was known
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: to live with Ethel Williams, and people would say that
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: she would be involved in queer communities in terms of
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: them supporting her and her also in life participating in
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: those communities. So that is part of her story as well,
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: but there's not like a lot of history or documentation
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: or her talking about that as it often is. And
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: like also it wasn't her job to do to speak
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: about it. So but yeah, at the time, Black performers
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: were confined to these subservient roles in their character portrayals
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: in integrated Broadway reviews. But Ethel Waters got a starring
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: role in the Broadway musical as Thousands Cheer, and a
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: song that she sang in it, Supper Time, was about lynching,
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: and Ethyl talked about knowing a family that was in
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: her own statements not in the song. Ethyl talked about
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: knowing a family that was affected by lynching and her
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: own personal experience, saying that she had almost been lynched
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: by a theater operator in my home state of Georgia.
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: You really go back and read stuff like this and
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: you're like, oh, that's that's where I live right now.
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: But yeah, it was integrated and she got star billing,
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: but she still couldn't be on stage with the white
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: pers performers that were in the sketches and songs. But
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: she continued to work in theater, and in nineteen thirty nine,
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: she got her first dramatic role on Broadway in Mamba's Daughters,
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: which was written by the author and playwright couple Dubos
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: and Dorothy Hayward. They wrote it for Ethel and this
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: made her the first black actress to get top billing
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: in a play, and again black women were confined to
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: this made submissive role in dramatic productions as well. But
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: she also did the musical Cabin in the Sky, which
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: she's noted for, which opened in nineteen forty and that
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: marks the first time a black actress got so billing
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: above the title for a musical production. Ethel also played
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: the same role that she did in the theatrical production
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: and a nineteen forty three film version of Cabin in
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: the Sky, and that film had an all black cast. Notably,
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: it also had Lean Horn in it, and there was
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: some conflict at the time between her in the studio
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: and how everything went down with the promo of that
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: because the studio had promoted Lena Horn, who was also
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: in the film as it stars, so they were going
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: out doing promo things like Lena Horn was the one
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: who was sent to do those things. And in Ethel
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: waters biographies there are quite a few situations are quotes
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: and when it was clear that Ethel Waters was very
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: circumspect and very cautious about the way people treated her
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: in those spaces. She was used to being treated negatively
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: by the white people who she was working with, and
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: it was clear that she was very intentional about protecting
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: her work and how she showed up in her workspaces
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: and how she was credited, and like, it just seemed
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: to be that she was really intentional about her legacy
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: and the way that she was viewed and the way
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: the others treated her. So at that time, you know,
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: she was definitely like, I need I know what I'm worth,
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: you know, I know how I should be credited, and
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: when something wasn't to her liking, she was vocal about it.
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: But yeah, so she didn't do another film after that
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: until Pinky was released in nineteen forty nine, which is
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: about six years later. It was a hard time for
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: all black performers working or trying to work in Hollywood,
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: but also particularly her, who had seemed to garner kind
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: of a reputation about being difficult to work with from
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: the producers but also from some of her cast mates.
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: But Pinky was about a black woman who passed for white.
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: But the woman who was passing, who was supposed to
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: be a black person passing as white, was actually just
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: a white woman and her name was Gene Crane, and
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: Ethel played her grandmother in the movie. Of course, there
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: was controversy over that as well, and is one of
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: those things that we still talk about, like more so
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: in terms of colorism. I think today things like that
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: come up because I don't know what studio would be
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: so bold as to cast a passing person who's white
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: these days, but there are still issues around like who's
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: light skin and who's dark skin, and who's casting. So
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: things like this of course happened at the time as well,
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: and I know that even today, looking back at that,
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: people who have our contemporary consciousnesses would feel differently about
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: Ethel's portrayal of the grandmother willingness to work in that film,
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: and also the fact that they cast a white woman
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: as a passing black woman and didn't give the part
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: to a black person. But all of that notwithstanding, Ethel
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: Waters was nominated for the Best Supporting Actress for the
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: film Pinky, and it was the second time a black
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: performer was nominated in that category. So Ethel was offered
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: a part in the play The Member of the Wedding,
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: and at first she turned it down kind of around
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: this idea that it wasn't godly or spiritual enough for her.
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: So the message that she was seeing when she initially
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: reviewed it was like I need more God in this basically,
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: but she eventually took the role after kind of I guess,
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: seeing it in a different way and seeing the spiritual
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: relevance that it did have. So that play opened in
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: nineteen fifty and that marked a return to Broadway for her,
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: which she wanted, and she also played in a film
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: version of that that came out in nineteen fifty two.
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: There are, like I mentioned earlier, remarks from people about
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: working with her, like people like Eartha kit and Katherine Dunham,
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: which are big names in entertainment, on what it was
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: like to work with her, the difficulty of working with her,
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: but also they learned from her. So I just don't
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: want people to come away with this idea that like
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: like Ethel Waters was very difficult to work with, like
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: she was a mean person and she clearly had a
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: big personality. But the people who remarked on working with her,
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: even if they didn't have the best experience of working
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: with her when it came to like their personalities clashing,
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: still talked about how they respected her, how they admired
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: her for her work, and how they did learn from
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: her as a person who was a pioneer in those
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: entertainment spaces. So the kind of roles that Ethel Waters took,
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: the stereotypes that she was relegated to, the characters that
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: she chose to play, was a point of contention for
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: her critics. So some of the work that she did
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: was praise and her acting or her singing was louded.
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: But of course there was a lot of debate from
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: black people, white people, all people of all races in
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: the United States about the content of her work, her
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: choices of her work. But there was a quote from
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: Ethel and she said, when Tales of Manhattan was released,
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: various Negro organizations picketed the theater showing it their placards,
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: protested picturing us colored people as wretched, dirty, and poorly clad.
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: I didn't understand that these same organizations were forever complaining
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: that we Negroes in America are underprivileged, So why did
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: they object to anyone showing us that way on the screen?
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: And that's the end. That's the end of the quote.
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: And there's also another article that said about her quote,
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: she has done little in pictures because she does not
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: care for the typed roles offer most of the negro players,
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: stars and otherwise. And this is what Ethel said in
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: that article. I'd rather stay home and look after little
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: Ethel than accept some of the parts offered me, she
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: told reporters recently. And that's the end of the article quote.
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: So all of that said, there was not only I
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: think as critics and as like viewers and consumers of
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: media who care about things like portrayal and the way
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: that things resonate within society, especially for something about blackness
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: in particular, which is what I know about, like specific
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: to the demographic and how that affects us personally and
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: affects views of us. It is something that is imposed
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: upon other people and their choices. In this case, it
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: was all these people saying, you know, not a fan
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: of the roles that Esthel chooses to take, you know,
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: questionable ethics, and not a fan, just not a fan
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: of her work and the roles that she was taking.
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: But it was clear that Ethel was also kind of
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: going back and forth herself about the roles that she
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: was taking, so saying that I'm not going to take
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: any of those roles, but going on to take some
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: of those roles, and also being discerning about specific roles,
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: So how is it actual character portrayed in a specific screenplay?
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: Is there any nuance in death and roundness to their
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: character in that? So it's a complicated thing and clearly
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: is not something that can just be panned out as
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: black and white on what was available to her at
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: the time, Like this was still a money making endeavor,
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: so she was doing things to be able to support
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: herself as well, but also doing it for the artistry,
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: So that in itself is a part of Ethel water story,
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: but also a part of so many other black entertainers
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: stories at the time. Ethel Waters wasn't the only one
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: who was dealing with questions like that, So she also
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: had a history in a background in doing things in
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: radio and television beyond her stage work and beyond her
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: work in film. So in nineteen thirty three, when she
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: was starring at The Cotton Club, she began broadcasting twice
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: a week over the NBC network, and that made her
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: the first black woman to have a regular radio show
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: over a major network, and Stormy Weather, as we talked
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: about earlier, was her theme song. She began negotiating for
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: another contract to broadcast over CBS, but stations in Georgia
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: and Florida didn't want any part of it since they
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: thought a white orchestra. She didn't play for a black performer,
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: but she did do other radio appearances in the thirties
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: and forties as a singer, and on June fourteenth, nineteen
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: thirty nine, the Ethel Waters Show was broadcast, which was
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: a variety special. These were the very very early days
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: of NBC television, so NBC Radio already existed, but NBC
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: television was just getting up and going. When she was
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: doing The Member of the Wedding on Broadway, she began
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: a role in the television comedy Beulah. Beulah ran from
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: nineteen fifty to nineteen fifty three on ABC, but Ethel
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: wasn't part of it the whole time. She played in
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: it as Beulah until nineteen fifty two and then she
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: was replaced with another actor. But it was about a
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: domestic worker named Beulah and the white family that she
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: worked for, and it was the first nationally broadcast weekly
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: TV series starring a black American. And after that show ended,
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: it was a while until there was another regular series
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: that started a black woman, and that was Julia, which
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: came out in nineteen sixty eight. So she appeared in
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: other radio dramas and dramatic roles on television, but her
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: last appearance on the stage on Broadway was in nineteen
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: fifty three, and that was in her one woman's show
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: called at Home with Ethel Waters about her exactly what
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: it sounds like. So, yeah, she had a long career,
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: but it did have its ups and downs. She ended
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: up publishing an autobiography, his Eyes on the Sparrow, in
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: nineteen fifty one, which he co authored with journalist Charles Samuels,
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: and later on, so around twenty years later in nineteen
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: seventy two, she came out with another autobiography called to
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: Me Is Wonderful. But even though she had this commercial
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: success and success in her artistry, by nineteen fifty five
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: she was in death and she owed taxes and she
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: had even ended up going on a game show to
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: get some extra money. But yeah, she kind of switched
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: it up in her later part of life. And you
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: see her so this influence that Christianity had on her
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: throughout her whole life. She was always a spiritual woman,
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: so God was always something she was considered. But in
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: the later part of her life. It was something that
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: she really gravitated toward. And in the late nineteen fifties
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: she started touring with the evangelist Billy Graham's Crusades, and
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: you can see videos of her singing as part of this.
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: And in the nineteen sixties and seventies she went on
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: different variety and talk shows, but some of the other
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: work that she was doing and entertainment was sawing down,
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: and her last TV appearance was in nineteen seventy six,
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: and the next year, on September first, nineteen seventy seven,
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: she died. So there is a quote from the author
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: Donald Bogel about her legacy. He said that she emerged
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: as perhaps television's most distinctive and important African American star
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: of the Eisenhower decade, not only the one African American
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: actress immediately known by face and name to the ever
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: growing television audience, but also the one black eye actress
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: who played a series of dramatic roles. Most significantly, ethel
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: Waters helped bridge the pre war and postwar eras, leading
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: to more modern depictions of African American women. That's the
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: end of his quote, and I just wanted to contextualize
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: that from a person who has done a lot of
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: studying on Ethel Water's biography and her history, because I
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: think it's not easy to condense a story that is
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: as has so many multitudes as Ethel Waters does into
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: this short period of time that we have today. It
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: was such a long and varied history of who she
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: was personally and how she presented through the work that
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: she did to the public, but also just to the
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: significance of the work that she did, which can't be
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: understated because she was a pioneer in these fields. And
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: also she did a lot of work to change the
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: genres that she worked in and how black women showed
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: up to the characters that they were playing and the
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: types of roles that were available to people, and the
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: importance of her work in this kind of transitional period
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: for entertainment. So she was credited and she did receive
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: her flowers and the work that she was did and
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: was inducted into some halls of fame. But yeah, she
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: was part of this history of other black women entertainers
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: who started out in vaudeville and kind of moved on
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: to other roles in film and theater. And we've even
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: talked about other people in some previous episodes of Female
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: First that were also in these realms. So people like
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: Cinciaretta Jones who we talked about, Madame Sultawan who was
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: an actress, and also Ellen Armstrong who was a magician,
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: who were also made their ways in the performance field
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: their respective performance feels. So yeah, I recommend going back
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: and listening to those episodes too, if you're interested in
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: acting and singing and dancing and magic and other fields
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: of performance that black women were working in. Yeah.
• 40:15
  Speaker 3: Yes, I mean we always recommend going back and listening
• 40:19
  Speaker 3: to every episode US IS on Female First, which we do.
• 40:23
  Speaker 3: We like to rerun them a lot because the conversations
• 40:25
  Speaker 3: we have in them are so important and still ongoing
• 40:29
  Speaker 3: to this day. So for sure, go check them out.
• 40:32
  Speaker 3: I still think we're reaching another milestone, so we'll have
• 40:35
  Speaker 3: a celebrations.
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 40:38
  Speaker 4: I also want to point out that one of my
• 40:40
  Speaker 4: favorite authors, which is Carson McCullers, who is the author
• 40:42
  Speaker 4: of the Member of the Wedding, when you were talk
• 40:44
  Speaker 4: about I was like, I.
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: Know what this one.
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, nice, I got very excited for her.
• 40:48
  Speaker 4: And I'm like, oh, because as you were saying and
• 40:52
  Speaker 4: as Ethel Waters has said she's not spiritual. Actually she
• 40:55
  Speaker 4: she becomes an anti spiritual essentially towards the middle of her career.
• 41:00
  Speaker 4: All most of her books kind of it's satire against religion.
• 41:06
  Speaker 4: So I was like, she understood, understood what that was about.
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I do wonder what was going through her
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: mind when she was while she was changing her mind.
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: What did they say exactly to convince her that it
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: was like more spiritual than she saw? And look at
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: it this way?
• 41:23
  Speaker 4: When you said that, I was like, what part to
• 41:24
  Speaker 4: that would have been more spiritual?
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: I wonder? I love this.
• 41:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I was gonna ask at the beginning because I
• 41:32
  Speaker 3: know you both know more about musicals than I was
• 41:35
  Speaker 3: if you would recognize any of this stuff.
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: So that wasn't what I was thinking that.
• 41:40
  Speaker 4: No, Yeah, because it's not a musical. That's part to that.
• 41:43
  Speaker 4: It's pretty it's a short story like when I play essentially,
• 41:47
  Speaker 4: but yeah, it's it's not a musical. Cartomkolors never wrote musicals,
• 41:51
  Speaker 4: but it was written as a play originally. For sure,
• 41:54
  Speaker 4: I've definitely heard these songs, but I don't know if
• 41:56
  Speaker 4: I've actually heard at the water rendition of story Waters
• 41:59
  Speaker 4: now what you say, and now I'm not to go
• 42:00
  Speaker 4: find it.
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yep, yeah, she listened to her singing for sure.
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: I'm very excited.
• 42:07
  Speaker 3: I love when doing research involves kind of like listening
• 42:10
  Speaker 3: to music or like looking at art or reading a
• 42:12
  Speaker 3: poem or something. So always good. Yeah, this was a
• 42:17
  Speaker 3: fascinating history. I'd heard of eth the Waters, but I
• 42:19
  Speaker 3: didn't know all of this. So this is once again
• 42:22
  Speaker 3: Eve's thank you so much. You're welcome for bringing this. Yeah,
• 42:28
  Speaker 3: we always love having you. Where can the good listeners
• 42:31
  Speaker 3: find you?
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: You can find me at Evesjeffcoat dot com, so you
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: can pretty much get anywhere from there. I'm on Instagram
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: at not Apologizing and on Twitter at Eve's Jeffcoat. And
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: you can also find me on many other episodes of
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: Sminty doing female First about plenty of other women like
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: some of the ones I mentioned at the end of
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: this episode, and you can go check those out. They're
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: there for your listening pleasure.
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: They are any they are well.
• 43:02
  Speaker 3: Thank you again, Eves, and if you would like to
• 43:05
  Speaker 3: contact does you can our emails Stuff Media mom Stuff
• 43:08
  Speaker 3: at iHeartMedia dot com. You can find us on Twitter
• 43:11
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• 43:14
  Speaker 3: stuff I've Never told you. We're also on YouTube. We
• 43:17
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• 43:21
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• 43:23
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• 43:26
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• 43:29
  Speaker 3: our super producer Christina, our executive producer Maya, and our
• 43:32
  Speaker 3: contruder Joey.
• 43:34
  Speaker 4: Thank you and thanks to you for.
• 43:35
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• 43:38
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