Latest / 360 with Katie Woolf / Katie Woolf spoke with NT Consumer Affairs Acting Commissioner Sandy Otto and The Director of Building Control Mr Mark Meldrum

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Katie Woolf spoke with NT Consumer Affairs Acting Commissioner Sandy Otto and The Director of Building Control Mr Mark Meldrum · 360 with Katie Woolf

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Hello, Katie Wolf and three point sixty online at Mix
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: one O four nine dot com.
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  Speaker 2: The Northern Territory Government has provided advice to property owners
• 0:09
  Speaker 2: following the results of an engineering assessment report into select
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: properties in Palmerston.
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  Speaker 3: Now.
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  Speaker 2: This report found that while there's no immediate safety risk,
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  Speaker 2: the structural building system used in some of these homes
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  Speaker 2: has been determined to be non compliant with the requirements
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: of the Building Code of Australia in force at the
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: time of construction, so while also being strategically or structurally
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  Speaker 2: i should say, inadequate in its design to meet the
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  Speaker 2: needs of the Northern Territory. Now joining me in the
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  Speaker 2: studio to talk a little bit more about this situation
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  Speaker 2: and what it means is Mark Meldrum, who is the
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  Speaker 2: Director of Building Control with the Territory Government.
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  Speaker 1: Good morning to you.
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  Speaker 4: Mark, Good morning, how are you?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, very well, And I've also gotten the studio the
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  Speaker 2: Northern Territory Consumer Affairs Commissioner Sandy Otto.
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  Speaker 1: Good morning to you, Sandy, Good morning Cody. Great to
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  Speaker 1: have you.
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  Speaker 2: Both in the studio on I really appreciate the fact
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  Speaker 2: that we've both come in this morning to have a
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  Speaker 2: chat with us about this.
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  Speaker 1: Mark I might go to you first.
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  Speaker 2: The Northern Territory government, I know, has been working with
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  Speaker 2: the impacted homeowners following reports of defects to these homes,
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  Speaker 2: which included movement in flooring, cracked and loose tiles, and
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  Speaker 2: poor drainage on balconies.
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  Speaker 1: Mark how many homes are we talking about here.
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  Speaker 4: There's eighteen homes in total, Cadie. They're split between two
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  Speaker 4: warranty schemes, so ten are covered under the Home Building
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  Speaker 4: Certification Fund and the remaining eight are covered under the
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  Speaker 4: Residential Building Cover scheme. And that's because of the timing
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  Speaker 4: of the construction of the buildings over a period of time.
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  Speaker 4: So the department's been working with the landowners with the
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  Speaker 4: Home Building Certification Fund COVER and did an assessment report
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  Speaker 4: which which gets to the nub of the issue about
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  Speaker 4: the structural integrity of the buildings. And we've been working
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  Speaker 4: through with the owners on how we can solve these
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  Speaker 4: issues for them.
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  Speaker 1: So when were these homes constructed.
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  Speaker 4: Twenty twelve and two thousand and issues first started being
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  Speaker 4: experienced by the owners in around twenty fourteen. The developer
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  Speaker 4: and the builder did address issues up until about twenty
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  Speaker 4: eighteen and nineteen and then twenty nineteen, the Department wrote
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  Speaker 4: to all affected landowners at the time and let them
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  Speaker 4: know that they're covered under two warranty schemes. They can
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  Speaker 4: make applications and deal with us about how we can
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  Speaker 4: move forward.
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  Speaker 2: So when was the government first notified that there were
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  Speaker 2: issues with these Times.
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  Speaker 4: Would have been around twenty fourteen, when the developer was
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  Speaker 4: working with the builder and the homeowners at the time.
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  Speaker 1: And so how has this happened?
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  Speaker 2: Firstly, how do we end up in a situation where,
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  Speaker 2: you know, where we've now got homeowners who are going
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  Speaker 2: to be really quite concerned that their homes aren't up
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  Speaker 2: to scratch.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, it happens through the construction techniques used, the type
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  Speaker 4: of design that's used, the product used. Our assessment and
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  Speaker 4: testing shows that it's a non compliant, but it is
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  Speaker 4: reasonably safe to occupy the buildings. The only warning that
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  Speaker 4: we have is to evacuate in a cyclone. If there
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  Speaker 4: is a cyclone, not to stay in the homes, just
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  Speaker 4: as a precaution.
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  Speaker 2: And so twenty fourteen was when you guys first found
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  Speaker 2: out about it. How is it that we're sort of
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  Speaker 2: only hearing about it now? I guess all these years later, like.
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  Speaker 4: I said, the developer and the builder, we're trying to
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  Speaker 4: address these issues in the early years, and then that
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  Speaker 4: came to a position where nothing was happening and none
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  Speaker 4: of the development, none of the rectification issues were addressed.
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  Speaker 1: And so where are we at now?
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  Speaker 2: Have those issues now been addressed by the developer?
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  Speaker 4: So no, not by the developer. They're covered under two funds,
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  Speaker 4: as I said, and there's some homes that are not
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  Speaker 4: covered anymore through the passage of time. But we're working
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  Speaker 4: with the owners and making them aware of the safety
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  Speaker 4: issues and looking at rectification issues for them.
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  Speaker 2: Okay, I guess from a real layman's perspective, I'm assuming
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  Speaker 2: that it wouldn't just be eighteen homes across the territory
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  Speaker 2: that this developer has been in.
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  Speaker 1: Is there other homes that could potentially be at risk?
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  Speaker 1: Not really.
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  Speaker 4: The builders no longer registered, but the builder was registered
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  Speaker 4: for a number of years. They might have done work
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  Speaker 4: with this eighteen package of eighteen homes is unique, and
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  Speaker 4: that they use a particular building system that hasn't been
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  Speaker 4: replicated too far and wide. So there might be a
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  Speaker 4: small number of this product being used, but not the
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  Speaker 4: whole the whole how home being constructed like it was.
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  Speaker 2: I guess you know, what is the advice for people
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  Speaker 2: listening who might be maybe concerned or who might be
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  Speaker 2: thinking to themselves, goodness, May I hope my home isn't
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  Speaker 2: one of these or maybe my home is.
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  Speaker 1: Yes.
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  Speaker 4: Like I said, we've contacted all the effected homeowners, but
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  Speaker 4: if there's anyone who is concerned about the construction of
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  Speaker 4: their home, they could contact Building Advisory Services at the
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  Speaker 4: Department of Infrastructure, Planning and Logistics, or to seek independent
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  Speaker 4: structural engineering advice if they.
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  Speaker 2: Wish, Sandy, what options do people have here? I mean
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  Speaker 2: if somebody goes into this process of home ownership or
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  Speaker 2: home building and you know, they get to sort of
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  Speaker 2: a few years later and find that there are issues
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  Speaker 2: with the home, what options do they have.
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  Speaker 3: When a property is built in the Northern Territory, they'll
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  Speaker 3: get a fidelity certificate and that certificate we'll cover them
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  Speaker 3: for six years. There's twelve months nonstructural cover and then
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  Speaker 3: there's full sixty years for structural cover. So if it's
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  Speaker 3: in between that time, they can certainly give us a
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  Speaker 3: call and we can talk them through the process. If
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  Speaker 3: it becomes a case where the relationship's broken down between
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  Speaker 3: the builder and the homemanner. They can certainly give us
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  Speaker 3: a call and we can step them through that.
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  Speaker 2: With these homes, With these homes that now are in
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  Speaker 2: this situation where I know, as you've said, Mark, there's.
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  Speaker 1: You know, they're structurally.
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  Speaker 2: Inadequate or it's been reported that while they're also structurally
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  Speaker 2: inadequate in their design. But they're not going to have
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  Speaker 2: to move out of them or anything. If there is
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  Speaker 2: a cyclone, they're going to have to get out of
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  Speaker 2: those homes, as I understand it. But what's the process then,
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  Speaker 2: I suppose for these people if they are looking at
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  Speaker 2: selling their home down the track they I mean, are
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  Speaker 2: they going to be able to or is there going
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  Speaker 2: to be sort of I don't know who this question
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  Speaker 2: is best for, but are they going to have the
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  Speaker 2: option to be able to do that or is it
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  Speaker 2: going to be sort of found that it's it's not
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  Speaker 2: compliant and it's going to be a really difficult process
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  Speaker 2: for them.
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  Speaker 4: Well, the buildings have issues, but I haven't deemed them
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  Speaker 4: to be of a risk to the extent of issuing
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  Speaker 4: orders or notices on the on the owners. However, when
• 6:30
  Speaker 4: you buy a property, you can get an inspection report done,
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  Speaker 4: a building status report, which is usually a review of
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  Speaker 4: the building record for that building, or you can get
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  Speaker 4: you can seek independent professional advice such as a structural
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  Speaker 4: engineer to look over the plans as well. So there
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  Speaker 4: are those checks and balances in place.
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  Speaker 2: But I would assume, I mean, I'm assuming that then
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  Speaker 2: if you go through that process, that it is going
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  Speaker 2: to find that or that that that building, you know,
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  Speaker 2: like if they do those reports, that it is going
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  Speaker 2: to find that they do have these deffects.
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  Speaker 4: In the homes they may do.
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  Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, And so I guess then, Sandy, when you
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  Speaker 2: talk about that, what options.
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  Speaker 1: Do people have?
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  Speaker 2: I suppose if they, you know, they go down the
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  Speaker 2: track and they want to then sell the home that
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  Speaker 2: they may be looking to move into state or looking
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  Speaker 2: to go somewhere else, is that going to make that
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  Speaker 2: process harder for them?
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  Speaker 3: Potentially it could do. Unfortunately, I can't give any advice
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  Speaker 3: on the process or anything that they can do it
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  Speaker 3: if it is a case of buyer beware. So I
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  Speaker 3: always suggest if someone is looking at a home that
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  Speaker 3: they do all that checks and balances, like Mark said,
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  Speaker 3: to make sure that they are fully informed of the
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  Speaker 3: property that they're looking at purchasing.
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  Speaker 2: And are there I guess, are there sort of procedures
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  Speaker 2: in place now to try and ensure that this doesn't
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  Speaker 2: happen to any other territories, you know, with other developers
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  Speaker 2: or with anybody else building their homes, that they don't
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  Speaker 2: wind up in this same situation down the track.
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  Speaker 4: Yes, certainly, we've gone out with industry consultation on building
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  Speaker 4: reform in March and we look at the results of
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  Speaker 4: that at the moment. And that includes a greater oversight
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  Speaker 4: of construction and design of buildings, including peer review of
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  Speaker 4: complex buildings or high rise apartments and things like that,
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  Speaker 4: but also including continuing professional development for practitioners so they're
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  Speaker 4: up to speed with the National Construction Code and the
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  Speaker 4: requirements Australian standards and other requirements as well.
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  Speaker 2: And what is I don't know what the right word is.
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  Speaker 2: I don't think punishment's the right word. But what is
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  Speaker 2: the action which is taken then against that developer to
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  Speaker 2: really try to I don't whether it's compensate or to
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  Speaker 2: try to make sure that nobody else ends up in
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  Speaker 2: this situation.
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  Speaker 4: Well, the builder is no longer registered. If the builder
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  Speaker 4: does wish to register with the Building Practitioners Board or
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  Speaker 4: have the opportunity to make a submission to them about
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  Speaker 4: my findings and the assessment that's undertaken. But while the
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  Speaker 4: builder is not registered, there's no action I can take
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  Speaker 4: from a disciplinary point of view.
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  Speaker 1: Now, now, Sandy, I.
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  Speaker 2: Do want to ask you actually about something else which
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  Speaker 2: is quite separate to this situation with these homes. I
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  Speaker 2: want to ask you about this online scam which is
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  Speaker 2: doing the rounds by the sounds of it all around Australia,
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  Speaker 2: but we're certainly not immune to it here in the
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  Speaker 2: Northern Territory. Can you tell us a little bit more
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  Speaker 2: about this and what people are doing at the moment
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  Speaker 2: with this.
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  Speaker 3: No worries, Katie. We first found out the fake websites
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  Speaker 3: were occurring when we had a phone call from a
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  Speaker 3: customer that said that they wanted us to look at
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  Speaker 3: a product out in Berrima. They gave us the address
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  Speaker 3: of it and said they were just a little bit
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  Speaker 3: concerned because it was up here. They were down south
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  Speaker 3: and they just wanted to make sure it was genuine.
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  Speaker 3: And we went out to the property and found out
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  Speaker 3: it was a vacant block. So we started doing some
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  Speaker 3: investigation at that point and found out the whole website
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  Speaker 3: was fake. The prices that they were asking for the
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  Speaker 3: goods were way too cheap. There was really nothing on
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  Speaker 3: there that was genuine. It was just amazing. And in fact,
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  Speaker 3: these people will take photos from websites overseas of their
• 10:03
  Speaker 3: staff and then put them on their website. So if
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  Speaker 3: you do a reverse Google search, you often find that
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  Speaker 3: it's connected to some website over Europe. The reviews are fake.
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  Speaker 3: Everything's fake. But what the getting smarter now and this
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  Speaker 3: is what the problem is, and it's catching more people out.
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  Speaker 3: They actually use genuine ABN numbers now, so they've stolen
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  Speaker 3: the ABN from a genuine business that may not have
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  Speaker 3: been doing business for a couple of years or haven't
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  Speaker 3: got an online present, and they're actually used that ABN
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  Speaker 3: to make it look legitimate. And we've actually had a
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  Speaker 3: case where they've actually stolen the person's or the staff
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  Speaker 3: member from the genuine business as part of their fake website.
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  Speaker 1: It's goodness me. They get more and more elaborate, don't they,
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  Speaker 1: these scammers.
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  Speaker 3: They certainly do. And our advice is to certainly if
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  Speaker 3: you're looking at a website, you're thinking about buying something. Firstly,
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  Speaker 3: can you look at it? If you can't go and
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  Speaker 3: see it, if you can't get someone that's in the
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  Speaker 3: same town to go and have a look at it,
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  Speaker 3: don't buy it.
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: Well, and we're talking about sort of personal monetary losses
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  Speaker 2: totally nine hundred and seven thousand dollars already reported to
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: Consumer Affairs as I understand it. Have we had people
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: here in the Northern Territory really suffer loss from these scams?
• 11:14
  Speaker 3: Luckily you haven't, yep. But we've actually saved money at
• 11:17
  Speaker 3: all across Australia. They've seen our warnings when we put
• 11:19
  Speaker 3: them up on our Facebook page. Since we find them,
• 11:21
  Speaker 3: we put them up, and we certainly ask people that
• 11:24
  Speaker 3: they share the post that we put up so we
• 11:25
  Speaker 3: can get the word out there more and more.
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  Speaker 2: Oh good on you guys, and certainly good on you
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  Speaker 2: for being very proactive by the sounds of it and
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: making sure that everybody knows what's going on.
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  Speaker 1: Oh look, I've got a few questions that have come
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  Speaker 1: through Mark, I've got one here for you. Is it
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  Speaker 1: going to be Do people need to disclose the.
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  Speaker 2: Faults going back to the homes if they are looking
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: at selling, Do they need to disclose those faults.
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  Speaker 4: It's not mandated in the Northern Territory law to disclose
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  Speaker 4: the faults. But like I said, if you choose to
• 11:54
  Speaker 4: have an inspection there, like a status report done by
• 11:59
  Speaker 4: a registered practitioner, it will probably be identified in that
• 12:04
  Speaker 4: through that process.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, could that be a concern then if it's not,
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  Speaker 2: if it isn't disclosed, and if they do, like if
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  Speaker 2: we have good a situation where they need to be
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  Speaker 2: out of those homes, if there's a cyclone, how would
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  Speaker 2: that you know, how would the next time owner be
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: aware of that if it's not disclosed.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, And that's a good point. But we were working
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  Speaker 4: with you with the ten homeowners that are covered on
• 12:23
  Speaker 4: HBC have to resolve their issues with the homes in
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  Speaker 4: any case, and Sandy has been working with those covered
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  Speaker 4: on the RBC as well.
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  Speaker 2: And so hopefully everything gets sorted for those homeowners sooner
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  Speaker 2: rather than later.
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  Speaker 4: We'll we're looking at trying trying to resolve it as
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  Speaker 4: quick as you can.
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  Speaker 1: Yes, instantly.
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  Speaker 2: Well, I really appreciate you both coming into the studio
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  Speaker 2: this morning. Certainly a lot to cover off NT Consumer
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  Speaker 2: Affairs Acting Commissioner Sandy Otto thank you so.
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: Much for your time.
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: And the Director of Building Control, mister Mark Meldrum, thank
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: you so much for your time.