Latest / ChangeMakers with Katie Goar / Episode 153: Sean Gilbert, Executive Director of Tennessee Valley Housing Services & President of NAHRO

Transcript

Episode 153: Sean Gilbert, Executive Director of Tennessee Valley Housing Services & President of NAHRO · ChangeMakers with Katie Goar

0:05
Speaker 1: This is change Makers with Katie Gore finding the right
0:09
Speaker 1: solutions for the affordable housing community.
0:13
Speaker 2: Today's change Maker is Sean Gilbert, the executive director of
0:17
Speaker 2: the Tennessee Valley Housing Services and President of Narrow, where
0:22
Speaker 2: he represents more than twenty six thousand housing professionals across
0:26
Speaker 2: the nation. With decades of experience leading housing authorities across
0:31
Speaker 2: Kentucky and Tennessee, Sean has built a career with expertise
0:36
Speaker 2: and affordable housing and really helping communities thrive.
0:39
Speaker 3: Sean, Welcome to the change Makers podcast.
0:43
Speaker 4: Good morning, Katy. Good after then. Now, great to be
0:46
Speaker 4: with you.
0:47
Speaker 2: It's great to have you and I want to hear
0:50
Speaker 2: all about everything Narrow, everything Kentucky, Tennessee housing.
0:54
Speaker 3: So we have a lot to get to.
0:56
Speaker 2: I'm really looking forward to this conversation. I know we
0:59
Speaker 2: just saw each other in Nashville, and I want to
1:03
Speaker 2: talk about the Narro platform.
1:05
Speaker 3: But first let's get to know you.
1:08
Speaker 2: Why don't you start by telling us maybe how you
1:11
Speaker 2: got into affordable housing or just what your early days
1:16
Speaker 2: looked like, and then we'll fast forward to the current days.
1:20
Speaker 4: Sure. Sure, I grew up in southern West Virginia in Hatfield,
1:24
Speaker 4: McCoy Country on the Kentucky line. So I grew up
1:27
Speaker 4: in an area that always struggled. You know, there was
1:30
Speaker 4: never you know, I grew up in an area that
1:32
Speaker 4: had the have nots, but none of the has So
1:36
Speaker 4: growing up, you know, I saw the sense and value
1:39
Speaker 4: of community because everyone around me, I didn't know it
1:43
Speaker 4: where a lot of people were in Section eight. I
1:45
Speaker 4: grew up playing in the courts, which I later found
1:48
Speaker 4: out were the apartment complexes or the projects as they
1:53
Speaker 4: would call them. Around me. I didn't know what that was.
1:56
Speaker 4: I just knew these were my neighbors and my friends,
1:59
Speaker 4: and we keok care of you each other. And during
2:02
Speaker 4: those days, I saw the struggle. And you know, there's
2:05
Speaker 4: value in struggle as well as just the value in
2:09
Speaker 4: the accomplishments. So I saw the value of people striving
2:13
Speaker 4: trying to do better. But I really saw that it
2:16
Speaker 4: took a community to make this. You know, I tell
2:20
Speaker 4: people all the time, you can have a home a house,
2:24
Speaker 4: but you can't have a home without community. All these people,
2:27
Speaker 4: even though they didn't have much, none of us had much.
2:30
Speaker 4: We all had home and we all had community. And
2:33
Speaker 4: I knew growing up that as I moved away and
2:36
Speaker 4: went to school. I saw, you know, this isn't the world.
2:41
Speaker 4: Everyone doesn't have to struggle. Everywhere you're at doesn't have
2:46
Speaker 4: to be a perpetual struggle, a perpetual uphill clime. So
2:51
Speaker 4: as I went through, when I got out of college,
2:53
Speaker 4: I moved away, and I realized that my heart was
2:56
Speaker 4: really in public service. I've been lucky and blessed enough
3:01
Speaker 4: ever since I was in my mid twenties. I've never
3:04
Speaker 4: had a job that I didn't consider a career move.
3:08
Speaker 4: And I also never had a position that wasn't in
3:13
Speaker 4: the public realm helping people. And you know, as I
3:17
Speaker 4: moved around, I ended up sort of getting back towards
3:20
Speaker 4: home after circulating around and realizing that, you know, there's
3:25
Speaker 4: still that need there. There's always going to be that
3:27
Speaker 4: need there. And I was working in public service and
3:32
Speaker 4: I saw a position at the Housing Authority in Pike
3:36
Speaker 4: for Kentucky, and I said, well, that sounds like something
3:39
Speaker 4: that would help a lot of people. And I put
3:41
Speaker 4: into the application, never really thought about it, got the position,
3:46
Speaker 4: and it just started down this path of you know,
3:50
Speaker 4: I'm blessed in the fact that a lot of people
3:53
Speaker 4: don't find their calling or they don't find what their
3:58
Speaker 4: role in life is. And I really truly feel that,
4:02
Speaker 4: you know, people say they fall into these positions, but
4:05
Speaker 4: I really truly believe you're placed in the opportunity to
4:09
Speaker 4: see what that is. I think I was placed in
4:12
Speaker 4: that situation and I saw new there's nothing better than
4:17
Speaker 4: to give somebody that doesn't have anything it said it
4:20
Speaker 4: to you, and to see their faith and to get
4:23
Speaker 4: to go in and say, wow, this is mine and
4:27
Speaker 4: things that we take for granted. So that's sort of
4:31
Speaker 4: my past as far as getting into the housing and
4:34
Speaker 4: how it happened, and you know, it's just been a
4:37
Speaker 4: blessing from day one.
4:40
Speaker 2: Several of us who have had what I would say
4:42
Speaker 2: is a bumpy first start or some housing instability, some
4:49
Speaker 2: re routes in life, you know, I describe mine. I
4:52
Speaker 2: think that, you know, faith, education and a very stubborn
4:57
Speaker 2: single mom.
4:58
Speaker 3: Helped me get through through that phase of life.
5:02
Speaker 2: Is there a similar three things that you could say
5:06
Speaker 2: that took you from where you were to.
5:08
Speaker 4: Where you are, Well, I think you hit that pretty well.
5:12
Speaker 4: You know, you got to have a strong family, and
5:14
Speaker 4: I was really blessed to have a family that supported me.
5:18
Speaker 4: But I was also blessed to see the unfortunate situations
5:22
Speaker 4: when people didn't have that. And I hate the word blessed,
5:26
Speaker 4: but you know, you got to cake it and turn
5:28
Speaker 4: it into something positive. Most of the people I grew
5:30
Speaker 4: up with are either dead or they're in jail with drugs,
5:34
Speaker 4: or you know, they're successful. And a lot of that
5:37
Speaker 4: comes just from, you know the fact that they had
5:41
Speaker 4: strong family environments. And the second thing is community. You know,
5:45
Speaker 4: I use sports growing up to stay involved, keep myself
5:50
Speaker 4: out of trouble. So so me and my friends that
5:53
Speaker 4: didn't have those avenues ended up doing things that they
5:57
Speaker 4: paid for there. And education, you know my parents, you know,
6:02
Speaker 4: I'm one of the very first, the first on my
6:05
Speaker 4: mother's side, I think, to graduate from college. So and
6:09
Speaker 4: I was able to utilize that to get away because
6:12
Speaker 4: you know, if you stay on the same page, you know,
6:15
Speaker 4: your whole lots of books, and you stay on that
6:17
Speaker 4: same page over and over again in the same location.
6:20
Speaker 4: And getting away really showed me that you know this,
6:24
Speaker 4: you know, you live there the whole time. You think
6:27
Speaker 4: that's the way the whole world is. And getting away
6:30
Speaker 4: really showed me that, you know, there's so many opportunities
6:33
Speaker 4: out here. There's so many things that to see and
6:36
Speaker 4: to learn and could do, and you know, and that
6:40
Speaker 4: really set the stage for my going back and hopefully
6:44
Speaker 4: making a difference and pushing the ball forward.
6:47
Speaker 3: Well, let's talk about that.
6:48
Speaker 2: You definitely are making a difference in the Tennessee Valley here.
6:52
Speaker 3: So what is what are you guys doing there? What's
6:56
Speaker 3: your role? How many people are you serving? Like to
6:59
Speaker 3: tell us about your current position?
7:01
Speaker 4: Sure? Sure, you know, I've been blessed. I've been in
7:04
Speaker 4: eastern Kentucky with smaller communities, and then I was in
7:07
Speaker 4: Knoxpoort k C d C for quite a few years.
7:10
Speaker 4: And now I'm here. So I've had the rural and
7:12
Speaker 4: I've had the urban, and now I'm sort of the
7:14
Speaker 4: suburban community and a variety of sizes of agencies. And
7:22
Speaker 4: this is really nice because you know, it's sort of
7:24
Speaker 4: that sweet spot in between. We have eleven twelve hundred
7:29
Speaker 4: units that we either administered through our public housing or
7:33
Speaker 4: rad program or Section eight and so you can make
7:37
Speaker 4: an impact and you can see it more much like
7:40
Speaker 4: it when I was in Kentucky. So I came here
7:45
Speaker 4: and we were sort of a static agency. You know,
7:47
Speaker 4: we did our public Housi when we did our Section
7:49
Speaker 4: eight and we didn't really go outside of our lane. Well,
7:55
Speaker 4: I've never really done well at drawing within the lines.
7:58
Speaker 4: So we had to, you know, start saying what happens
8:02
Speaker 4: we make you know, we do, we operate a good shop,
8:05
Speaker 4: but how do we expand that opportunity to make sure
8:09
Speaker 4: that our people have hope and opportunity that if they
8:13
Speaker 4: don't want to if you want to live here, we're
8:15
Speaker 4: here for you. We're going to take care of you.
8:17
Speaker 4: We're going to give you and your kids the opportunities
8:20
Speaker 4: that we can. But how can we expand that? So
8:23
Speaker 4: we're actively in the process of converting our entire portfolio
8:28
Speaker 4: through the RAD program to the Section eight format. Within
8:33
Speaker 4: the next four or five weeks, we'll close on a
8:35
Speaker 4: deal to a twenty billion dollar FAHA two twenty one
8:39
Speaker 4: D four loan to take the properties around my office,
8:43
Speaker 4: about four hundred and sixteen units, to put that major
8:48
Speaker 4: emphasis into remodeling these units. These units were built in
8:51
Speaker 4: nineteen fifty two some of that, so we're sending here
8:54
Speaker 4: at seventy five years old. Hudd has not you know,
8:59
Speaker 4: shown the willpower. Congress is not shown the willpower and
9:02
Speaker 4: the determination to make sure that we're meeting Oliver capital needs.
9:07
Speaker 4: So now housing authorities had to be resourceful and start,
9:11
Speaker 4: whether you're in an urban area, a large agency or
9:14
Speaker 4: small agency, to look for a way to remodel and
9:17
Speaker 4: make these units into something that people will be proud
9:20
Speaker 4: to live in. And I reticent use the word units
9:24
Speaker 4: because I want them to be homes. But the way
9:27
Speaker 4: you do that is we've also focused on our residence
9:30
Speaker 4: services side of it to make sure that we have
9:33
Speaker 4: the services for our residents to have their kids having
9:38
Speaker 4: educational opportunities, they have access to computers, to have access
9:42
Speaker 4: to clothing. We loke Dolly Carton's Imagination Libraries operated out
9:48
Speaker 4: of our resource center, so all these things to make
9:51
Speaker 4: sure that our residents aren't just provided housing, that provided home.
9:57
Speaker 4: And we're also starting for the first time ever to
9:59
Speaker 4: get We were just awarded our first text credit allocation,
10:05
Speaker 4: so we're getting ready to start on the building on that.
10:08
Speaker 4: So we're getting into areas that a lot of traditional
10:11
Speaker 4: housing authorities in rural suburban communities I believe should be
10:15
Speaker 4: looking at to expand not only their portfolio, but we
10:19
Speaker 4: have such a need. There's so many people out there.
10:21
Speaker 4: I could lease units all day long. It's the units
10:25
Speaker 4: up if I don't have them. So we got to
10:26
Speaker 4: start expanding into those areas, right.
10:29
Speaker 2: So do you I mean, you've got multiple financing packages
10:34
Speaker 2: and deals and development going on. You could lease as
10:38
Speaker 2: many units as you could probably get allocated for. Do
10:42
Speaker 2: you have a sense of what that universe is? I mean,
10:45
Speaker 2: is it ten thousand, is it you know, some astronomical
10:51
Speaker 2: number or the budget zeros or do you have a
10:53
Speaker 2: sense of what that need would look like maybe even
10:56
Speaker 2: today in the near term?
10:57
Speaker 3: What are your projections?
11:00
Speaker 4: We operate in five fountains, so areas from county to county.
11:05
Speaker 4: We're just outside of Knoxville, so we're partly a bedroom
11:08
Speaker 4: community for Knoxville. We're about forty five minutes away. But
11:11
Speaker 4: we're also one of the largest smallest emails says. But
11:16
Speaker 4: we're also one of the bigger manufacturing mssays, So we
11:20
Speaker 4: have to work that balance in between just creating affordable
11:24
Speaker 4: housing and creating workforce outing. So as we have you know,
11:31
Speaker 4: so many of the court of the companies and manufacturers
11:34
Speaker 4: around here at following say Sean, I don't have the
11:37
Speaker 4: people to staff my company, and we're like, you know,
11:42
Speaker 4: we're here for you and we want to work with you.
11:45
Speaker 4: So we're also talking to the city right now about
11:48
Speaker 4: using taxing cremate financing to develop units for sale units
11:53
Speaker 4: and we would be the Tiff agent going through here.
11:56
Speaker 4: So we're trying to work in all those arenas. As
11:59
Speaker 4: far as numbers is, you know, it's hard to tell
12:01
Speaker 4: because where we right up against not Soars mssay and
12:06
Speaker 4: we bleed into each other. I think they're building crazy.
12:10
Speaker 4: We can definitely build another probably a thousand units between
12:15
Speaker 4: workforce and between just affordable, and I don't know if
12:20
Speaker 4: that would meet the need.
12:22
Speaker 2: You know, I've heard the same thing from several other
12:25
Speaker 2: podcast guests. I'm thinking of Greta Harris and North Carolina.
12:29
Speaker 2: You know you've got It doesn't matter what the size
12:31
Speaker 2: of the community is. People are getting phone calls from
12:34
Speaker 2: employers who are saying, I want to move here, I
12:38
Speaker 2: want to expand. My people can't find housing though, or
12:42
Speaker 2: their commutes are so long out to what they can afford.
12:45
Speaker 3: They can't come in.
12:47
Speaker 2: They don't stay long because the turnover and you're zooming
12:52
Speaker 2: in on a reality here that impacts economic policy because
12:57
Speaker 2: of the fingers that it has in the labor market,
13:01
Speaker 2: and you know, how does your community boom if it
13:06
Speaker 2: can't have housing for the workers.
13:09
Speaker 3: I mean, that's that's a.
13:11
Speaker 2: Legitimate question on economic sustainability for our community.
13:17
Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly. You know, all the time I'm telling people
13:21
Speaker 4: housing is economic development if you can't have the economic
13:26
Speaker 4: development side of it, if you don't have the workforce. So,
13:30
Speaker 4: I mean, I'm working with the group Here's between East
13:33
Speaker 4: Fannessee and Southwest Virginia that it's a very word community,
13:38
Speaker 4: but they're starting to understand that we can't grow and
13:42
Speaker 4: thrive if we don't have housing. And we and not
13:46
Speaker 4: just housing, we got to have affordable housing. Because I
13:48
Speaker 4: can drive up the street and I can see all
13:50
Speaker 4: kinds of three hundred and fifty four hundred and fifty
13:53
Speaker 4: five hundred fifty six hundred fifty thousand dollars homes being built.
13:56
Speaker 4: But trying to find that two hundred to two hundred
13:59
Speaker 4: and fifty thousand dollar house is tough in today's market,
14:05
Speaker 4: so you have to be creative to get those in.
14:08
Speaker 4: So but the biggest thing I'm seeing is that people
14:11
Speaker 4: are starting to understand that, you know, the word housing
14:15
Speaker 4: crisis isn't just a word for two words out there.
14:19
Speaker 4: Now they're saying, yeah, it's affecting need because I can't
14:22
Speaker 4: get workers downtown Knoxville in their square. And I used
14:27
Speaker 4: to use this analogy all the time when I worked there.
14:29
Speaker 4: You know, there's a Tupelo Honey, which is a local
14:32
Speaker 4: chain restaurant. You'd walk in and I'm not picking on
14:35
Speaker 4: Tupelo Hunting, you would have two hour wait. The restaurant
14:38
Speaker 4: would be half full. Yeah, and it's not because of
14:42
Speaker 4: the capacity of the restaurant. It's because they don't have
14:46
Speaker 4: employees that live close enough and can't get to work, right.
14:50
Speaker 4: So how do you combat that? And that's exactly what
14:53
Speaker 4: we started doing in Knoxville and what they're still continuing
14:56
Speaker 4: to do. They're building near the doubt out building places
15:01
Speaker 4: that people can get to work, to make sure that
15:04
Speaker 4: you're not inconvenienced when you go down kind of want
15:07
Speaker 4: to grab something to eat, right. And that's the key
15:10
Speaker 4: to all of this is that we got to verbalize this.
15:13
Speaker 4: We got to kill that story. We've got to continue
15:16
Speaker 4: to tell that story that yeah, don't go in there
15:18
Speaker 4: and think because the place is half four that you
15:21
Speaker 4: have a two hour await. But there's an issue, is
15:23
Speaker 4: the one issue, and that's they don't have the point
15:27
Speaker 4: that live close en us and to have affordable housing
15:29
Speaker 4: to live close enough. Right.
15:31
Speaker 2: Let me allude back to something you said about your
15:35
Speaker 2: your learning centers, your vision centers. I imagine I think
15:38
Speaker 2: that's what you say.
15:39
Speaker 3: You called them. You're the imagined center.
15:41
Speaker 2: Everybody loves Dolly Purton, even if you're not a country
15:44
Speaker 2: music fan. I believe you quoted her in your narrow speech.
15:51
Speaker 2: Tell us about that partnership. How did it happen? Brag
15:55
Speaker 2: on your team a little here as.
15:57
Speaker 3: To what you guys have done.
15:59
Speaker 4: Sure, it's Dolly Carton's Imagination Library. And I'm fortunate. You
16:03
Speaker 4: know she's from Surverable, which is just in between Knotsville
16:06
Speaker 4: and where I'm at. Now, have met Kirbet, it's you.
16:09
Speaker 4: Hear this, Dolly? I would committ you.
16:13
Speaker 3: Well, let's manifest it. Dolly can shine like this. Let's
16:17
Speaker 3: do with met and greet. Let's make it happen.
16:19
Speaker 4: There you go. But we have the Hambling County and
16:22
Speaker 4: that's the County of Imagination Library, and I serve on
16:24
Speaker 4: that board, and you know the goal of that board.
16:28
Speaker 4: Just so people knows is that every Chill child below
16:31
Speaker 4: the age of five would get a book of months
16:33
Speaker 4: and six for sixty months to combat the literacy issue
16:39
Speaker 4: that we have across the country. So there was a
16:43
Speaker 4: situation to where they didn't have a home, they were
16:46
Speaker 4: losing their home, and we had space and I might
16:50
Speaker 4: you know, this is just kisn it. You know, we
16:53
Speaker 4: need you here in our community. So we located them.
16:58
Speaker 4: You know, we charged it in a whole dollar a
17:00
Speaker 4: year to be there just for bookkeeping records. But they
17:05
Speaker 4: and then now they participate. You know, we've been able
17:08
Speaker 4: to work with them and they've done this on their
17:10
Speaker 4: own really to have the old book mobiles that you have.
17:14
Speaker 4: So now Dolly's got her bookmobile here locally and we
17:17
Speaker 4: have books on site that we have their their volunteer
17:21
Speaker 4: staff on site so when we have an event, they
17:24
Speaker 4: show up. We just had her back to school basket
17:28
Speaker 4: last week. I was at the first one I missed
17:30
Speaker 4: because I was in Nashville with you. And every one
17:35
Speaker 4: of those kids got a book. Every one of these
17:38
Speaker 4: kids got school supplies. Every one of those kids. At
17:40
Speaker 4: Christmas time, you know, they were there dressed up like
17:44
Speaker 4: the grants, reading the grant story and making sure the
17:48
Speaker 4: kids have books and get signed up and they operate
17:51
Speaker 4: that out of our shop, not just for our people,
17:53
Speaker 4: but for everyone in the county. You know, you get
17:55
Speaker 4: signed up when you're born in the county for that program.
18:00
Speaker 4: We have sign ups here. So it's just a great
18:03
Speaker 4: way to show, you know, get these kids excited in reading,
18:08
Speaker 4: because one of the key indicators for the third graders
18:13
Speaker 4: eight year olds is ten years later, they're basing to
18:17
Speaker 4: a larger degree the number of jail cells we need
18:20
Speaker 4: on third grade reading level. So I would much rather
18:23
Speaker 4: us be building libraries than prisons. And if we can
18:30
Speaker 4: combat that, that's what we're going to do. When we're
18:33
Speaker 4: going to continue to do that, provide those type of
18:35
Speaker 4: educational opportunities for kids. It's going to make air lives
18:39
Speaker 4: so much easier. If these kids are going to school
18:42
Speaker 4: and playing in sports and positioning themselves for that as
18:47
Speaker 4: opposed to not being in school and breaking clay around
18:50
Speaker 4: equipment and breaking windows and doing all that stuff, their
18:55
Speaker 4: jobs easier, mix their lives better, and mix their parents
18:58
Speaker 4: be able to not worry about then and take care
19:01
Speaker 4: of themselves sometimes do Yeah, what.
19:03
Speaker 2: A clever partnership. I'm so happy to hear that, like
19:07
Speaker 2: the Dolly imprint right.
19:09
Speaker 3: And her own personal story too.
19:11
Speaker 2: I mean like she's pouring back into tons and tons
19:15
Speaker 2: of people at this kids, at this point with her legacy,
19:18
Speaker 2: and you know, she had a rough road to getting
19:22
Speaker 2: to be aware she was, so she wasn't handed an
19:25
Speaker 2: easy route and so it's just like her story seems
19:30
Speaker 2: like what the doors of affordable housing can do for
19:33
Speaker 2: people too. If you're not the musician and you're you
19:37
Speaker 2: don't have that natural talent, a door for housing could
19:41
Speaker 2: also stabilize a person.
19:43
Speaker 3: So there's a lot of symbolism there.
19:45
Speaker 4: I think there is. And you know, of course, you
19:47
Speaker 4: know with the storytelling in music and songwriting as storytelling. Yeah,
19:54
Speaker 4: you know, she's so great at verbalizing that you you
19:57
Speaker 4: hear music and hear things that which she sings about,
20:03
Speaker 4: you know, her coat growing up and it was made
20:05
Speaker 4: by and it was all paths together. Yeah, and you
20:09
Speaker 4: know you grew up in this area where you grew
20:12
Speaker 4: up in Apple Acchia like I did. You've been identify
20:14
Speaker 4: with that because I remember patches on my backs when
20:17
Speaker 4: I would go to school and you know, of course
20:20
Speaker 4: you would have somebody make fun of the over or
20:23
Speaker 4: what right? That was just part of life. But you know,
20:26
Speaker 4: I was blessed in the fact that most of the
20:28
Speaker 4: kids had patches on their on their on their hands,
20:31
Speaker 4: so I was probably not the odd ball with that.
20:35
Speaker 2: Well, I you know, I remember with a stigma of
20:38
Speaker 2: getting having to be the one in school who bought
20:40
Speaker 2: the clothes from the Goodwill and may I used to
20:43
Speaker 2: be furious about that, And now here my kids go
20:46
Speaker 2: to Goodwill for fun, and I'm.
20:48
Speaker 3: Like, what, there's like these weird things in life that
20:53
Speaker 3: give us stigmas. And then you're like later, you're like, really,
20:57
Speaker 3: was that a stigma?
20:58
Speaker 4: Was that just.
20:59
Speaker 2: The my my own fragile nature at that pump moment?
21:03
Speaker 2: Or was I absorbing things that necessarily you know, kids
21:07
Speaker 2: are mean and you were absorbing what they told you.
21:11
Speaker 2: So like that's a whole backstory, isn't it.
21:14
Speaker 4: That It also gives you hope that these kids seek
21:16
Speaker 4: value that maybe we didn't see true, and you know,
21:22
Speaker 4: so they had this different way of thinking, and oftentimes,
21:25
Speaker 4: you know, I think it's a better way of thinking
21:28
Speaker 4: because you know, what can we repurpose, what can we
21:31
Speaker 4: do to take some of this sprain off the system? Yep.
21:35
Speaker 2: Well right, the sustainability of a goodwill is a whole
21:39
Speaker 2: nother moment. Let's talk about storytelling, because I've heard you
21:44
Speaker 2: several times speak on the national stage two thousands of people,
21:48
Speaker 2: and you really really are refining the story telling authenticity
21:56
Speaker 2: of affordable housing. And you know, I've seen it more.
22:00
Speaker 3: I'm on the narrow platform.
22:02
Speaker 2: But tell us about how you's that's starting to be
22:08
Speaker 2: some of your marching orders for many of us in housing.
22:13
Speaker 3: Tell us how a little bit more about that.
22:15
Speaker 4: Well, this really started for me about thirty years ago.
22:19
Speaker 4: I was doing a large scale redevelopment in Pikeuel, Kentucky,
22:23
Speaker 4: and I had this one particular business that was just
22:27
Speaker 4: dead set against it. Didn't want those people or in
22:31
Speaker 4: the neighborhood, right and all this, And you know, I'm
22:35
Speaker 4: sitting and I'm like, how do we combat this? How
22:37
Speaker 4: do we do this? You know? So I went and
22:39
Speaker 4: he ran a small grocery store, and I went and said, listen,
22:43
Speaker 4: can I get a meeting with you? He said yeah,
22:46
Speaker 4: and he had a little daily in there. And I
22:48
Speaker 4: intentionally did this and set in the meeting up for
22:50
Speaker 4: the third of them up. So, because I knew executive
22:53
Speaker 4: he was, you know, my office was in an elderly
22:56
Speaker 4: high rise two hundred units, and I I knew his
23:00
Speaker 4: client call better than he did, so I said, let's
23:03
Speaker 4: go over. Let's have this meeting at third I'll buy
23:05
Speaker 4: you lunch at your shop, which made no sense, but
23:09
Speaker 4: I bought him likes of this shop. And as people
23:12
Speaker 4: coming in that day, it was the third of the month.
23:14
Speaker 4: If you remember back in those days, third of the
23:16
Speaker 4: month was a very busy time. Oh yeah, yeah, oh.
23:20
Speaker 2: Offices, there's just people everywhere, you know, the first of
23:23
Speaker 2: the month it was chaos chaioks.
23:26
Speaker 4: So I'm sitting there and where I intentionally set near
23:29
Speaker 4: his front door, so as he came in, I said, hey,
23:32
Speaker 4: missus Smith, how are you. So we're sitting there for
23:34
Speaker 4: about an hour, and in that hour I counted seventeen
23:38
Speaker 4: people that came in that I spoke to. He said,
23:41
Speaker 4: you know, everybody said, these are the people you're against.
23:44
Speaker 4: You're against your own customers. Wow, And there are seventeen
23:50
Speaker 4: people that came in here at shop here. If we're
23:53
Speaker 4: not here, if you mose seventeen customers per hour, yeah,
23:57
Speaker 4: per day, what's that going to do to you? And
24:01
Speaker 4: he said, you know, I never really thought it was
24:04
Speaker 4: that way. I thought of its people that were going
24:07
Speaker 4: out here and stealing and taking and doing I said, no,
24:10
Speaker 4: these are the people that are coming into you to
24:13
Speaker 4: buy from you. I said, when when one was leaving
24:17
Speaker 4: about that time, I said, and that shock, the cart's
24:20
Speaker 4: pretty full today. He go, You're exactly right, it is,
24:23
Speaker 4: He goes, you won't hear another word out her. So
24:25
Speaker 4: we got to tell their stories and turn detractors into supporters,
24:30
Speaker 4: which he became a supporter that day. So and we
24:34
Speaker 4: were able to get this project down. We were able
24:36
Speaker 4: to put sixty youthful new units in tax credit units
24:40
Speaker 4: in just directly up the road from him, and those
24:43
Speaker 4: became his customers as well. So my staff are hearing
24:48
Speaker 4: all the time. These are not always residents, their customers,
24:51
Speaker 4: their their customers, and some of those some of our
24:55
Speaker 4: people can't kill those stories. So it's important and imperative
24:58
Speaker 4: that we do, because somebody's going to be telling her story.
25:02
Speaker 4: They had told our story, and he thought they were
25:04
Speaker 4: all going to be people that took from the system,
25:08
Speaker 4: but they were actually people that were making sure that
25:11
Speaker 4: he had a place to live and his kids were educated,
25:14
Speaker 4: and that he had the vehicle that he had, in
25:17
Speaker 4: the homes that he had, and from that day forward,
25:19
Speaker 4: you know, it was a great situation and he became
25:23
Speaker 4: a support. So that's where the story in my mind's
25:26
Speaker 4: got it was that one conversation almost thirty years ago.
25:32
Speaker 4: And over the years, you know, I wasn't in the
25:34
Speaker 4: position that I am now could say we have to
25:37
Speaker 4: tell our stories. We have to tell us stories for
25:40
Speaker 4: our communities and for our residents. And it makes a
25:43
Speaker 4: job so much easier when we tell those stories effectively,
25:47
Speaker 4: and we use stories like that and we bring people
25:51
Speaker 4: and individuals in to those stories. And I truly think
25:56
Speaker 4: that one of the reasons that we've had the funding
25:58
Speaker 4: we've had over the past few year is that Prequel
26:01
Speaker 4: Narrow are advocating such a better way that those stories
26:06
Speaker 4: are making an impact. And you know, we won the
26:10
Speaker 4: National Postal contest What Home Means to Me a couple
26:12
Speaker 4: of years ago, and we took the winner and she
26:16
Speaker 4: I think she was eleven or twelve at the time.
26:18
Speaker 4: We took her to DC and we took her to
26:21
Speaker 4: every one of our congressional representatives. This talented young lady
26:28
Speaker 4: is why we do what we do and why you
26:31
Speaker 4: be doing what you do, and you know every one
26:35
Speaker 4: of them except for one that I have a bone
26:38
Speaker 4: with to this day and I won't name this person's
26:40
Speaker 4: name came out and you know, talked and wanted to engage,
26:46
Speaker 4: and that could have faced in a story. And this
26:49
Speaker 4: is an individual that was so shy, you know, she
26:53
Speaker 4: didn't talk anyboy. Now I'll walk out, she'll see me,
26:56
Speaker 4: and she'll run up and give you a hug. So
26:58
Speaker 4: all this stuff ties back in the fabric of community
27:01
Speaker 4: and home, and it all ties oftiately in that we
27:05
Speaker 4: got to tell this story and we got to be
27:07
Speaker 4: good at it. So we can't just be there thinking
27:11
Speaker 4: on the spot. You have to find that story. Because
27:15
Speaker 4: the story I told you about setting down with the
27:17
Speaker 4: gentleman in his story I've told over and over and
27:20
Speaker 4: over again because it, I hope will encourage people to say,
27:25
Speaker 4: don't get up just because you have somebody that is
27:28
Speaker 4: opposed to you of that kind. That's an opportunity to
27:32
Speaker 4: for education. So that's why I think it's important. That's
27:36
Speaker 4: why when we were there on the first day, it's
27:39
Speaker 4: imposing we brought together leaders to talk about storytelling. My
27:44
Speaker 4: goal is to have some story kit for people to
27:47
Speaker 4: take back and say, this is your storytelling kit on
27:50
Speaker 4: how you start refining your story. And I hope we'll
27:55
Speaker 4: fairly soon because you know, you can take this and
27:59
Speaker 4: start thinking about that interaction that you had could be storied,
28:04
Speaker 4: be your story, It might be the story across the
28:07
Speaker 4: street of the person's you help. Because we have a
28:10
Speaker 4: lot of stories out there that you know we're part
28:12
Speaker 4: of that we're looking everyone to know that we're part of.
28:16
Speaker 4: So we got to start being really, really focused and
28:19
Speaker 4: intentional about that. And every day, you know, in every
28:23
Speaker 4: confidence that I'm involved with, why no prayer, you always
28:26
Speaker 4: want to hear about storytelling and the importance and the
28:29
Speaker 4: power of how that affects community, and that affect every
28:32
Speaker 4: single one of us.
28:35
Speaker 2: You've been challenging us for some good time to be
28:40
Speaker 2: able to actually tell those stories. So let's let's talk
28:45
Speaker 2: about the manifestation of that, because you know, every single
28:49
Speaker 2: person in this industry has almost an obligation not just
28:53
Speaker 2: ask for the funds, but they need to talk about
28:54
Speaker 2: the results. They need to talk about the stories, they
28:57
Speaker 2: need to talk about. What I like to say is
28:59
Speaker 2: that keep your wind journal. That's that's what I tell
29:02
Speaker 2: everybody too, because unfortunately, there are a lot of horror
29:07
Speaker 2: stories and those are the outliers, those are not the
29:12
Speaker 2: norms throughout the industry. So you know, we've got to
29:15
Speaker 2: be able to talk about the winds, we've got to
29:17
Speaker 2: be able to talk about the stories, the impacts, the
29:21
Speaker 2: performance measures, all of those and not just allow those
29:25
Speaker 2: horror stories to flare up like they do. Let's talk
29:30
Speaker 2: about NARO for a minute here. Congratulations on that in
29:33
Speaker 2: that post. And your term is going to yield a
29:37
Speaker 2: couple of things. You've got an agenda, and but just
29:42
Speaker 2: tell us more about what your goals are for NARRO,
29:46
Speaker 2: maybe even for people who aren't members of NARO.
29:49
Speaker 3: Tell us tell us what you guys want to accomplish,
29:51
Speaker 3: what you want to accomplish.
29:53
Speaker 4: Sure, you know narrow, as you said, it's hard. Just
29:57
Speaker 4: a affordable housing organization in the country. We represent every
30:02
Speaker 4: twenty six thousand members most of the housing authorities. So
30:06
Speaker 4: we think it's important that we're crafting this story. And
30:12
Speaker 4: that's really my main focus here is storytelling and to
30:16
Speaker 4: make sure that we're utilizing those stories and to make
30:22
Speaker 4: sure we're making impact nationwide. Because you're exactly right, you
30:25
Speaker 4: see the horror story. You see that one that looks
30:29
Speaker 4: bad on the news, but you don't see the stories
30:32
Speaker 4: of when this young child who's a third generation public
30:37
Speaker 4: housing child gets a scholarship because of the hard work
30:42
Speaker 4: they've done, and behind them you have the housing authority
30:45
Speaker 4: that's provided a safe and affordable place for them to
30:49
Speaker 4: live and to study and to do all that stuff,
30:52
Speaker 4: and all the support system of that kid that's gone
30:55
Speaker 4: out made a difference. And now they're coming back and
30:57
Speaker 4: showing that. So we're going to you know, we just
31:01
Speaker 4: GNARL does a lot of scholarships, and we just put
31:04
Speaker 4: out a document and I wish I had it setting
31:07
Speaker 4: here and I would hold it up. But focusing on
31:10
Speaker 4: those stobbers. So we're going to have to do a
31:12
Speaker 4: better job. And I think we're doing a good job.
31:15
Speaker 4: I always room for improvement of highlighting bringing those people
31:19
Speaker 4: back that have gone on. I was just in Oklahoma
31:22
Speaker 4: a month or so ago at Southwestern and they had
31:26
Speaker 4: a scholarship winder now that was working at Oklahoma State
31:29
Speaker 4: and I can't remember the millions of dollars she was
31:31
Speaker 4: bringing back into the educational system. I think it was
31:34
Speaker 4: something like forty million dollars that this woman that started
31:39
Speaker 4: off as a child and gone through the system and
31:43
Speaker 4: now she's making this great impact. So can you imagine
31:47
Speaker 4: that millions and millions of dollars she's bringing back to
31:50
Speaker 4: Oklahoma State University because of the small investment we made
31:55
Speaker 4: back here in the scholarship or in public heuity or whatever.
31:59
Speaker 4: Those were stored that are not getting cold, that need
32:01
Speaker 4: to be cold, over and over and over again. As
32:04
Speaker 4: far as that goes, And you know, and the other thing,
32:07
Speaker 4: I you know, we're coming out of COVID. Everybody has been,
32:11
Speaker 4: you know for two years ago. I remember going to
32:15
Speaker 4: my first conference and I was like, you know, how
32:17
Speaker 4: far do I have to stay away and have this
32:19
Speaker 4: and the you know, the whole world's changed. So we're
32:23
Speaker 4: really trying at Naaruro to improve the experience of being
32:27
Speaker 4: a NAUAL member. And I think we really did a
32:29
Speaker 4: good job at Matsville of doing that of you know,
32:33
Speaker 4: finding locations that are great, but bringing people for all spectrums.
32:37
Speaker 4: And I think when we look at those training opportunities,
32:41
Speaker 4: that's where we're really hitting it. Because it was a
32:44
Speaker 4: diverse training that you could have in between the plinaries.
32:48
Speaker 4: Uh plinaries I thought were excellent as well. But how
32:51
Speaker 4: do we educate our people so that when they go home,
32:56
Speaker 4: they're not just taking home notes, they're taking home enthusiasm
33:01
Speaker 4: and they're taking home ideas. And how do we encourage
33:05
Speaker 4: more not just in the rooms, more networking sessions so
33:09
Speaker 4: I can say, yeah, yeah, that didn't that works. Sometimes
33:13
Speaker 4: it's just important to hear the horror story and what
33:16
Speaker 4: didn't work, so you don't go down that path. And
33:20
Speaker 4: those been the most for my career. The most important
33:22
Speaker 4: rooms I've been in is you know, in the hospitality
33:27
Speaker 4: or in the neck the mounds, or in the reception,
33:31
Speaker 4: find somebody I say, I know you've done this because
33:34
Speaker 4: you know, when I was a younger houser, I was
33:37
Speaker 4: calling Greensboro and Knoxville, at Charleston, South Carolina, all these places.
33:44
Speaker 4: Then get learning from them, and the exit that Knoxville
33:48
Speaker 4: they got tired of me calling them all the time,
33:49
Speaker 4: they hired me. So these contacts is important because pagiarism
33:56
Speaker 4: in a lot of ways is a great thing. I
33:58
Speaker 4: don't want to I would do something and I just
34:02
Speaker 4: wasted a hundred thousand dollars.
34:03
Speaker 5: Yeah, those are precious public dollars that we had the
34:07
Speaker 5: safeguard and if I can kick up the phone and
34:10
Speaker 5: call Katie or I can call someone else, I'm going
34:14
Speaker 5: to do it.
34:15
Speaker 4: And on the flip side, I think it's incoming of
34:18
Speaker 4: us as older housers to give back and to make
34:21
Speaker 4: sure that the next generation of halsers are coming in.
34:25
Speaker 4: And they had the knowledge, but we got to spark
34:28
Speaker 4: that enthusiasm and keep that lighting because if it hadn't
34:32
Speaker 4: been sparked to me in some way, in somewhere along
34:35
Speaker 4: the way, who knows where I would have ended up
34:37
Speaker 4: off something that doesn't make me feel the way I
34:41
Speaker 4: do when I drive around my community and I say,
34:44
Speaker 4: people underneath those roofs make having a better life because
34:48
Speaker 4: of what we do. So that's the thing about it,
34:51
Speaker 4: you know, the storytelling and biting the spark and making
34:54
Speaker 4: sure that the next generation of hausers are making sure
34:59
Speaker 4: that the next gen of people that need housing.
35:02
Speaker 2: Okay, we've been talking about the National Association of Housing
35:07
Speaker 2: and Redevelopment Officials. NARROW is what we commonly call it.
35:13
Speaker 2: I've been posting an awful lot about NARROW lately, trying
35:17
Speaker 2: to get as many people as I can and urging
35:20
Speaker 2: them to come to Denver in October give us a
35:24
Speaker 2: sneak peek.
35:24
Speaker 3: Of what's on the plan and what's on the agenda
35:27
Speaker 3: for Denver.
35:28
Speaker 4: Well, Denver should be great. First of all, it's a
35:30
Speaker 4: great city in October. You know, we're not going to
35:33
Speaker 4: guarantee the weather, but it should be good. But we
35:37
Speaker 4: already have a jam packed. Can go to narrow dot
35:39
Speaker 4: org check out the agenda. It's already out there. It's
35:44
Speaker 4: a fantastic agenda. We're going to have some great teennote speakers.
35:50
Speaker 4: One of them is an individual and I can't remember
35:52
Speaker 4: her name. One of my great weaknesses is names. But
35:57
Speaker 4: she was on America's Got Cow and I think she
36:00
Speaker 4: lost her hearing at a young age, when she was
36:03
Speaker 4: a teenager, I think, and now she has refound a
36:08
Speaker 4: love for She didn't lose her above for singing, but
36:12
Speaker 4: she uses the other senses around her, like operation and
36:18
Speaker 4: things to sing. So we're bring her in to tell
36:23
Speaker 4: the story of you know, we all have challenges, but
36:28
Speaker 4: we have a woman who does not have her hearing
36:31
Speaker 4: anymore that is a beautiful singer and telling the story
36:34
Speaker 4: of overcoming obstacles. So we're bringing in someone people like that.
36:38
Speaker 4: But we just had rod Chetty, who Mark likes to
36:42
Speaker 4: call her Mark thee that Celn the Beyonce of Dad.
36:48
Speaker 4: So you know, we're always trying to make sure that
36:51
Speaker 4: we're bringing in things that with great data, great part
36:55
Speaker 4: of the story, but part of the story are these
36:57
Speaker 4: individuals that have overcome obstacles. So we're going to have
37:01
Speaker 4: her there and we're going to have hopefully two thousand
37:04
Speaker 4: houseres You know, we've had two sailouts in a row.
37:07
Speaker 4: We need a third sellout, so and I don't know
37:11
Speaker 4: what the sellout number is, but whatever it is, that's
37:14
Speaker 4: where I want to be because I can see the
37:18
Speaker 4: energy and the excitement building in Arrow because we had
37:22
Speaker 4: a sold out so in DC and this is an
37:24
Speaker 4: all felection year. To say about an all selection year
37:27
Speaker 4: is an anomaly that I hope is not an anomaly
37:31
Speaker 4: moving forward. So come on down, you know you'll have
37:36
Speaker 4: you'll be there. There'll be hundreds of other vendors there.
37:39
Speaker 4: It can be hundreds of houses, and we hope to
37:41
Speaker 4: have two or three or four hundred new houses because
37:44
Speaker 4: we just had about one hundred and eighteen I think
37:48
Speaker 4: in Nashville, and that's what we need. We need to
37:52
Speaker 4: keep seeding this and make people understanding the value a safe,
37:57
Speaker 4: affordable place to call it home. Because if they have that,
38:00
Speaker 4: you know, that drives everything. That means employers have the
38:04
Speaker 4: employees they need, that, grocers have the customers they need,
38:08
Speaker 4: That these the restaurants have the customers and the work
38:11
Speaker 4: staff they need. And so that's we got to realize
38:13
Speaker 4: this is all a self fulfilling prophecy and we got
38:16
Speaker 4: to be a positive member of that.
38:18
Speaker 3: I just looked it up while you were talking.
38:21
Speaker 2: It's Mandy Hervey is her name, and singer, songwriter, author
38:27
Speaker 2: who is deaf, but she transforms silence into sounding connection.
38:33
Speaker 2: So what a unique inclusion there to the agenda for Denver.
38:39
Speaker 2: So everybody can check out narrow na h R. Just
38:45
Speaker 2: put in that with Denver and they'll get right to
38:48
Speaker 2: the link. And I've been posting about it, You've been
38:52
Speaker 2: posting about it, so lots of people trying to make sure.
38:55
Speaker 2: I mean, it really is more than just attending a
38:58
Speaker 2: conference like I've I've been even been talking about like
39:01
Speaker 2: the hallway winds, not just the panels, not just the slides.
39:05
Speaker 3: But you know how you were, you know you mentioned you.
39:08
Speaker 2: Pick up the phone and call somebody and it's like
39:10
Speaker 2: I'm getting a no on this from my local office.
39:13
Speaker 2: I need to know how you made it a yes.
39:17
Speaker 2: And just the value of that alone is phenomenal. So again,
39:23
Speaker 2: my plug, it's more than just a conference, isn't it.
39:27
Speaker 4: It's much more than a conference. And you're exactly right.
39:29
Speaker 4: The hallways are the best place to be. Yeah. I
39:33
Speaker 4: mean you walk through there and you see you, Oh,
39:35
Speaker 4: I need to talk to him, yep, And you know,
39:38
Speaker 4: you grabbed your notebook and you that person maybe in
39:42
Speaker 4: a conversation. Now, I'll write it down and next time
39:45
Speaker 4: I see you, I'm not going to forget. I'm going
39:47
Speaker 4: to pull you to the side. Because there's so many
39:50
Speaker 4: unique housing agencies. You know, we cored NBHA, the National
39:53
Speaker 4: Housing Authority while we were there. I don't and I don't.
39:56
Speaker 4: I'm not sure if you got to do the core,
39:57
Speaker 4: but it was fantastic.
39:59
Speaker 6: They built the football they owned the Swiss Library, they
40:03
Speaker 6: built the Convention Center. On top of providing stellar housing,
40:07
Speaker 6: they're providing economic development there. They I think they administer
40:11
Speaker 6: the tip program. So they do so much that they
40:15
Speaker 6: own half the parking garages in Nashville.
40:19
Speaker 4: So there are so many things and unique ways that
40:22
Speaker 4: housing authorities just need to say, Okay, we're not in
40:25
Speaker 4: this box, and if we aren't, you know, we're pushing
40:30
Speaker 4: the boundaries to make that box bigger. So you know,
40:35
Speaker 4: we just in uh Tennessee a couple of years ago.
40:38
Speaker 4: You know, as we go through the rap process, so
40:40
Speaker 4: many of us as starting to utilize tax credits, and
40:44
Speaker 4: as you create these tax credit mpies, they can't be insured.
40:48
Speaker 4: We're self insured. Well, don't tell us we can't. Let's
40:52
Speaker 4: just changed it all. So we changed it all so
40:55
Speaker 4: that now we can ensure our entities that the Minister
40:59
Speaker 4: tax spread programs into it. So there's a twenty five
41:02
Speaker 4: for thirty percent seatings right there. So we got to
41:06
Speaker 4: always be thinking outside the box, you know, pushing those
41:09
Speaker 4: boundaries legally, pushing those boundaries to make sure that we're
41:13
Speaker 4: providing the best possible resources to our communities. And the
41:18
Speaker 4: way we do that is about saving money sometimes mm hmm.
41:22
Speaker 2: And you know that the synergy of getting some of
41:24
Speaker 2: those regional partnerships and then expanding it to nationals so well, Sean,
41:29
Speaker 2: I really appreciate your time. Again, I've been talking with
41:32
Speaker 2: Sean Gilbert, the executive director of the Tennessee Valley Housing
41:36
Speaker 2: Services and the president of Narrow Sean, thank you so
41:41
Speaker 2: much for your time. Anything else you want to add
41:44
Speaker 2: before we close out?
41:46
Speaker 4: Sure, I just want to say thank you Katie for
41:48
Speaker 4: having me. This had been a pleasure. I'm a nerd
41:50
Speaker 4: for this stuff, you know, my wife tells me all
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Speaker 4: the time, just you could talk about something else besides
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Speaker 4: housing or football. I don't know if that's possible or not,
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Speaker 4: but you know, the whole thing here is, you know,
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Speaker 4: we need to ignite the system and ignite people to
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Speaker 4: realize that this industry can give you a great life,
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Speaker 4: but it can really make you feel better about yourself
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Speaker 4: and your community. Because there's nothing that makes me feel
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Speaker 4: better to know that there's people out there that are
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Speaker 4: living a better life because of what we do. So
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Speaker 4: if you're looking for an industry to live in, and
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Speaker 4: I know sometimes i'm a cheerleader for the industry, but
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Speaker 4: I think you know, truly, for me, I couldn't have
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Speaker 4: kicked a better choice as far as moving forward and
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Speaker 4: making an impact and making sure that every American has
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Speaker 4: a place.
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Speaker 3: To go home, I absolutely agree.
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Speaker 2: So it's proud to work alongside you, Sean, and with
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Speaker 2: that you can find Sean on LinkedIn. You can find
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Speaker 2: him on a narrow So thank you so much for
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Speaker 2: your time. Sean.
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Speaker 4: So thank you, Katie. I hope you have a great day.
42:57
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to change makers Katie Gore. To find
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Speaker 1: out more about Katie, go to quadel dot com.
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Speaker 4: That's q U A d e l dot com.
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Speaker 1: This has been a production of Forbes Books Radio