Latest / The Parenting Podcast / Road Trip - The Final Launch (Pt. 2) | Ep. 79

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Road Trip - The Final Launch (Pt. 2) | Ep. 79 · The Parenting Podcast

• 0:06
  On today's episode of The Parenting Podcast, we pick up our conversation that we started last time, the launching and releasing years into adulthood.
• 0:17
  So whether you've already launched or are still heading towards it, you'll want to listen in because we want to stay in a relationship with our grown children.
• 0:30
  And learn to prepare for and to navigate this unique season.
• 0:35
  Well, I am her host Cheryl Lang, and all I have now is adult children.
• 0:43
  And I will tell you, I didn't know about many of the complexities of this season with its challenges and its exciting opportunities.
• 0:54
  Our T B P recording team of Ellen and Christie join me exploring many of those different aspects, such as how to prepare yourself for when they make choices you would not want for them.
• 1:17
  Cheryl: Well,, you know, as we are, wrapping up this series on the road trip and here we are, uh, we're in San Francisco.
• 1:24
  Christie: yeah.
• 1:24
  Cheryl: And now you're launching out of.
• 1:27
  Cheryl: active parenting, right?
• 1:29
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 1:29
  Cheryl: un into their own lives,
• 1:30
  Christie: you know?
• 1:31
  Christie: Well, yeah.
• 1:31
  Christie: I mean, the picture I got in my mind when I was thinking of us arriving at the coast after this road trip was we finally made it to sea and we're, we're putting these kids on a boat and sending them out to the ocean while we stay at shore, and it, it feels a little free fallish, you know, just to send them off into their adult lives.
• 1:54
  Cheryl: That's true.
• 1:55
  Ellen: Yeah, absolutely.
• 1:56
  Cheryl: Didn't know quite the pushback that there is in the early years.
• 2:01
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 2:01
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 2:02
  Cheryl: in the early twenties and so forth, like, the feeling of the judgment.
• 2:07
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 2:08
  Cheryl: you know that, okay, I've done everything I can do.
• 2:11
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 2:11
  Cheryl: now there's.
• 2:13
  Cheryl: There's no accolades.
• 2:14
  Cheryl: Now.
• 2:14
  Cheryl: There is is a lot of you didn't do this right and Right.
• 2:18
  Cheryl: You know, you did too many sports.
• 2:20
  Cheryl: You did too little sports.
• 2:21
  Cheryl: Right Right.
• 2:22
  Cheryl: You parented too much.
• 2:23
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 2:23
  Cheryl: you parented, do little, all of that feeling, I didn't realize I get that pushback.
• 2:29
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 2:29
  Cheryl: I thought we could just kind of continue with a relationship.
• 2:32
  Cheryl: Right.
• 2:33
  Ellen: I don't even know how really personal that is.
• 2:36
  Ellen: Oh.
• 2:36
  Ellen: Feel like it's, I feel like that's just part of what you do when you're growing up.
• 2:40
  Ellen: Right.
• 2:41
  Ellen: Because you look around and you.
• 2:42
  Ellen: Oh, I remember my son joined the military and he was shocked when he heard.
• 2:49
  Ellen: his peer group's family lives.
• 2:50
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 2:51
  Ellen: He thought we were crazy.
• 2:53
  Ellen: And then, and, but in a sad way, he realized, and he said to me when he came home one time on leave, he goes, I didn't realize how good I had it.
• 3:01
  Ellen: Right.
• 3:01
  Ellen: Because, um, you know, my best friend's mother was a prostitute.
• 3:04
  Ellen: Mm-hmm.
• 3:05
  Ellen: and, you know, some really serious, heavy thing and he just, he didn't know.
• 3:10
  Christie: Well, and I think that's, that's the truth when they go out, they're you.
• 3:15
  Christie: naively optimistic probably in a lot of ways, but then reality starts settling in when they're looking to the left and the right and comparing to someone that maybe had it a little easier or a little harder.
• 3:26
  Christie: Yeah.
• 3:26
  Christie: Yeah.
• 3:26
  Christie: And so then they feel they're inadequacies.
• 3:29
  Christie: They're insecurities and all of that comparison.
• 3:32
  Christie: Yeah.
• 3:32
  Christie: And who gets.
• 3:33
  Christie: The brunt of that.
• 3:34
  Christie: That's, you know, it's a lot easier to turn around and blame your parents.
• 3:37
  Christie: Yes, it's true than it is to own any amount safe of safe.
• 3:40
  Christie: It's
• 3:40
  Ellen: safe
• 3:41
  Christie: to blame your parents.
• 3:41
  Christie: Yes.
• 3:42
  Christie: So it's our job to have some thicker skin in this season and know this isn't personal.
• 3:48
  Ellen: Yes.
• 3:48
  Ellen: Very good
• 3:49
  Christie: And, and you know, there, there might be things that we do need to own and, and apologize for.
• 3:53
  Christie: Right.
• 3:54
  Ellen: And what a wonderful opportunity that we're given.
• 3:56
  Ellen: When our kids start analyzing their life mm-hmm.
• 3:59
  Ellen: and they're distant a little bit, so it's not as emotionally charged as as it is in their teen years.
• 4:04
  Cheryl: Oh, yes,
• 4:05
  Ellen: Yes.
• 4:05
  Ellen: Right.
• 4:06
  Ellen: You know where everything is.
• 4:07
  Ellen: Well, you made me use the wrong kind of spoon.
• 4:09
  Ellen: Right.
• 4:10
  Ellen: you know, cause that kind of stuff.
• 4:11
  Ellen: Now they're a little farther down the road, so they're really thinking.
• 4:14
  Ellen: Through and it gives you opportunities to explain or just say, sorry, you're right.
• 4:18
  Ellen: I didn't do that.
• 4:19
  Ellen: Right.
• 4:20
  Cheryl: Well, and that's what we want for our children.
• 4:22
  Ellen: yeah.
• 4:23
  Christie: And to keep growing ourselves.
• 4:24
  Christie: Right.
• 4:25
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 4:26
  Cheryl: And so we've talked about it in different seasons and different episodes, towards the launch.
• 4:31
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 4:32
  Cheryl: And so we've talked about How to prepare them for the launch.
• 4:35
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 4:35
  Cheryl: What would you recommend to prepare us for the launch?
• 4:40
  Cheryl: That's the
• 4:40
  Christie: parent.
• 4:41
  Christie: That's a hard one
• 4:42
  Ellen: Because, you know, like with babies, you know you're pregnant, you have time to read about pregnancy, what to do in those early, and everybody wants to help you.
• 4:50
  Ellen: Mm-hmm.
• 4:51
  Ellen: when you've had a baby.
• 4:51
  Ellen: Mm-hmm.
• 4:51
  Ellen: I mean, it gives you advice maybe.
• 4:53
  Ellen: Right.
• 4:54
  Ellen: You know, but I mean, but you feel really alone when you're launching.
• 4:57
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 4:57
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 4:57
  Ellen: That's true.
• 4:58
  Ellen: You know, because you're, you're closing a door to a certain type of relationship, you.
• 5:05
  Ellen: with your child, right?
• 5:06
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 5:06
  Ellen: It's gonna be good eventually, but right in that rough waters, it's rough waters both for them and their little boat.
• 5:15
  Ellen: And it's rough waters as you're watching them sail into the
• 5:19
  Cheryl: sunset, right?
• 5:19
  Cheryl: Sunset.
• 5:19
  Cheryl: Sunset.
• 5:20
  Cheryl: Well, So it's the analogy, I'm not beating it to death, because if a big ship moves, they're in the rough, but they also, you get the wake coming package thinks the salt spray in your eyes.
• 5:33
  Cheryl: Oh yes.
• 5:33
  Cheryl: You know?
• 5:34
  Cheryl: One of the words I didn't know that I now would apply to it is grief.
• 5:38
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 5:39
  Cheryl: you know?
• 5:39
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 5:40
  Cheryl: That to know there's some grief involved and that that's healthy.
• 5:44
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 5:45
  Cheryl: And
• 5:45
  Ellen: fear, Cheryl.
• 5:46
  Ellen: Yes.
• 5:47
  Ellen: Sheer terror at times.
• 5:48
  Ellen: That's right.
• 5:49
  Ellen: You know, it's terrifying sometimes.
• 5:51
  Ellen: I
• 5:51
  Christie: think it's one of the loneliest times of parenting, because especially if you have younger.
• 5:57
  Christie: Kids behind your, you know, the one you're launching, especially your first, it's life goes on.
• 6:03
  Christie: Yeah.
• 6:03
  Christie: You have to keep, you know, baking the cookies and driving the carpool and doing all the things.
• 6:08
  Christie: And then your peers may not be releasing a child the same time, so they're still going on Yes.
• 6:12
  Christie: With their parenting duties.
• 6:14
  Christie: And it just feels very lonely sometimes because you're, you are grieving, but it's this unseen grief because everyone's so excited.
• 6:22
  Christie: about the child's future and the child included, or not an adult now.
• 6:26
  Christie: And
• 6:27
  Ellen: I remember it was always interesting having five children.
• 6:30
  Ellen: Um, the with 12 year age span.
• 6:33
  Ellen: Okay?
• 6:33
  Ellen: And so we were young parents.
• 6:37
  Ellen: with our oldest three.
• 6:38
  Ellen: Mm-hmm.
• 6:38
  Ellen: And by the time my youngest daughter comes along, she'd go, gosh, all my friends think you're so old.
• 6:43
  Ellen: Right.
• 6:44
  Ellen: Cause we're 10 years older
• 6:45
  Christie: than her peer group at that.
• 6:47
  Christie: I'm in that boat now.
• 6:48
  Christie: Wisdom, her peer group.
• 6:49
  Christie: But you're like, why do they think I'm older?
• 6:52
  Christie: Well, you know, while other moms are waiting at the door for their first born to get home, I'm in bed Correct.
• 6:58
  Christie: Yes.
• 6:58
  Cheryl: Right.
• 6:59
  Cheryl: You know, and so, Preparing ourselves for that emotionally.
• 7:05
  Cheryl: Is about the gap of what you had when you had your life was filled with children.
• 7:11
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 7:12
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 7:12
  Cheryl: Regardless of how many you have.
• 7:14
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 7:14
  Cheryl: The, you know, it hurts to launch one, it hurts to launch seven.
• 7:18
  Cheryl: Right?
• 7:19
  Cheryl: Right.
• 7:19
  Cheryl: So if you have embraced your job as a parent, it's kind of consumed your life, right?
• 7:25
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 7:25
  Cheryl: And so one of the biggest recommendations Um, one of the things, Ellen, you have said to me for years, and I would say it to others, is just start preparing yourself for life after kids.
• 7:38
  Cheryl: That's right.
• 7:38
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 7:39
  Cheryl: You know, so that you don't have to stand on the beach and keep saying, come back in, come back in.
• 7:44
  Cheryl: I'm my phone.
• 7:44
  Cheryl: And, and, and that
• 7:45
  Ellen: makes your kids feel miserable if they think, well, I've left and now my mom's just sitting at home doing nothing.
• 7:52
  Christie: Well, you know, and that this is where I went wrong.
• 7:54
  Christie: I mean, this is, this is my story of not, you know, not having enough.
• 7:59
  Christie: And interests and things outside of my children and yeah.
• 8:03
  Christie: Thankfully had the wisdom of you ladies to say don't swim out to their boat and drag it back to shore So I, I've, you know, fought to do that part well, but it's been very boring on my part of the coast.
• 8:17
  Christie: Yeah.
• 8:17
  Christie: You know, or not boring, I'm still living life.
• 8:20
  Ellen: Well, they bring in an excitement that we don't know Emily
• 8:23
  Christie: have.
• 8:23
  Christie: Right?
• 8:24
  Christie: There's a void.
• 8:25
  Christie: There's a void.
• 8:25
  Christie: So now I'm kind of scrambling to fill the void.
• 8:28
  Christie: And so that would be my, my advice to young moms, even in the early years is keep your, you know, you have different, amounts of time in different seasons for sure.
• 8:39
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 8:39
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 8:39
  Christie: But keep yourself developing so that you still have interests and ideas and thoughts of your own.
• 8:46
  Ellen: Well that's one of the things that I did enjoy about launching cuz it meant I got an extra bedroom that I could turn into my art room.
• 8:52
  Ellen: Yes.
• 8:53
  Ellen: And I filled it to
• 8:54
  Christie: the brim.
• 8:55
  Christie: I do daydream of empty bedrooms sometimes.
• 8:57
  Christie: Think what I'm gonna do
• 8:58
  Ellen: with them.
• 8:59
  Ellen: And you, you know, I think Christy, you really tapped into it because I think we can become really one dimensional as moms.
• 9:06
  Ellen: Mm-hmm.
• 9:06
  Ellen: because it is an all consuming job.
• 9:09
  Ellen: Right.
• 9:09
  Ellen: But we still are people.
• 9:11
  Ellen: We still have to keep a little portion of us that we cultivate.
• 9:14
  Ellen: Mm-hmm.
• 9:15
  Ellen: even in the midst of the busiest times of our family raising lives, that we are distinctive.
• 9:21
  Ellen: I'm not just your mom, but this is what I like to do over here.
• 9:25
  Ellen: Right.
• 9:25
  Ellen: I'm either a reader or I'm an artist, or I like to play sports, whatever it is, and keep that cultivated because that's a healthy person.
• 9:33
  Ellen: That's so
• 9:34
  Cheryl: good.
• 9:34
  Cheryl: It's, but it's a transit.
• 9:36
  Cheryl: and it does go from busy and noisy and active and consuming.
• 9:40
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 9:41
  Cheryl: to quite some silence.
• 9:42
  Cheryl: Right.
• 9:42
  Cheryl: You know, and, and know that this is normal.
• 9:45
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 9:45
  Cheryl: See, and that's the thing, that's the encouragement mm-hmm.
• 9:48
  Cheryl: that I had, particularly Ellen being older and more experienced But to say it is a bit of a silent space.
• 9:57
  Cheryl: Yes it is.
• 9:57
  Cheryl: So that's normal.
• 9:58
  Cheryl: It's okay.
• 9:59
  Cheryl: And then how you fill it with good stuff.
• 10:02
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 10:02
  Cheryl: Right.
• 10:02
  Ellen: Plan on looking forward to it.
• 10:05
  Ellen: Yes.
• 10:05
  Ellen: Rather than go, oh gosh, my kids are all leaving.
• 10:08
  Ellen: Yes.
• 10:09
  Ellen: And you know, it's just gonna be me either by myself or with my husband or whatever plan on, because that's kinda what I did.
• 10:15
  Ellen: Oh, okay.
• 10:15
  Ellen: When this kid lives and I can do this now cuz I only have to take, and this child's driving so I don't have to do that anymore.
• 10:22
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 10:22
  Ellen: That leaves me this little sliver of time to either meet with a friend or do something creative.
• 10:29
  Ellen: been planning in the back of my head, so, you know, again, going back to we are a whole person.
• 10:34
  Ellen: Right.
• 10:35
  Ellen: And continue to develop what you like.
• 10:37
  Ellen: That's
• 10:38
  Cheryl: really good.
• 10:38
  Cheryl: And, what you're saying is a mindset of opportunity.
• 10:42
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 10:43
  Cheryl: not loss.
• 10:44
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 10:44
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 10:44
  Cheryl: And so I went through it with you through your launching years in Christie.
• 10:49
  Cheryl: You were consumed with the loss consumed?
• 10:52
  Christie: Yeah, fully consumed.
• 10:53
  Christie: And I would say still, I mean, mine are seven years front to back and um, the challenge I'm finding is you still have one foot in the game, you know, as your kids are leaving one by one.
• 11:07
  Christie: Yeah.
• 11:07
  Christie: And so, like you're saying, Ellen, is that your opportunities are increasing incrementally.
• 11:13
  Christie: Yeah.
• 11:14
  Christie: And so I've still gotta keep kind of my mindset in the, the parenting game for a little while, but then keeping one eye on.
• 11:21
  Christie: But I can take
• 11:21
  Ellen: an hour a week and take an art class.
• 11:23
  Ellen: Right.
• 11:23
  Ellen: You know, I didn't get to do that before because we're so busy.
• 11:26
  Ellen: Mm-hmm.
• 11:27
  Ellen: And so just making that time for you.
• 11:30
  Ellen: It's not selfish, you know, and you have a little bit, and so you can, oh, I can pursue this.
• 11:35
  Christie: That's so
• 11:35
  Cheryl: helpful.
• 11:36
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 11:36
  Cheryl: So that's, we've kind of talked about how to prepare them, how to prepare ourselves.
• 11:40
  Cheryl: So what would you say, what would you share?
• 11:45
  Cheryl: How to tell parents how to handle the relationship now that you've launched?
• 11:50
  Cheryl: What would you speak into that?
• 11:51
  Cheryl: Because.
• 11:53
  Cheryl: I was surprised.
• 11:54
  Cheryl: I kind of thought we could continue in just this close, interdependent relationship.
• 12:01
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 12:01
  Cheryl: And then we've mentioned how they kind of detach.
• 12:05
  Cheryl: Right.
• 12:05
  Cheryl: And that's really good.
• 12:06
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 12:07
  Cheryl: and.
• 12:08
  Cheryl: Personally, I found that detaching time of their early twenties, not the most pleasant time in my relationship with them.
• 12:16
  Cheryl: Right.
• 12:16
  Cheryl: And I wonder if that's not part of God's wisdom to make it a little easier to let them detach.
• 12:23
  Cheryl: You're like, oh Gosh, you're
• 12:24
  Christie: gonna be gone for the day.
• 12:26
  Christie: Yes.
• 12:26
  Christie: Yeah.
• 12:27
  Christie: Peace
• 12:28
  Cheryl: and quiet.
• 12:28
  Cheryl: Right.
• 12:29
  Cheryl: to have the longevity of staying in it.
• 12:32
  Cheryl: But the relationship is tricky.
• 12:33
  Cheryl: It is tricky.
• 12:34
  Cheryl: There's no other part like it on any of the rest of parenting.
• 12:37
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 12:37
  Cheryl: what would you talk about?
• 12:39
  Cheryl: What would you recommend?
• 12:40
  Christie: Well, one, one mindset that's been really helpful to me is realizing nothing is permanent in this season.
• 12:48
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 12:48
  Christie: because some children, some personality types.
• 12:52
  Christie: Yeah.
• 12:52
  Christie: Might like to say things for shock value in your life, That's true.
• 12:56
  Christie: And might want to come in and make an announcement of their, you know, new values in this area or their new ideas in this area.
• 13:03
  Christie: Yes.
• 13:04
  Christie: And sometimes it's just to announce their independence to the world.
• 13:07
  Christie: Yes, yes.
• 13:08
  Christie: And so I would, early on, I would panic, right?
• 13:12
  Christie: And.
• 13:12
  Christie: I knew it.
• 13:13
  Christie: I blew it.
• 13:14
  Christie: Yeah.
• 13:14
  Christie: You know, they've gone off the deep end and then I'm realizing they are evolving.
• 13:19
  Christie: Yeah.
• 13:19
  Christie: And changing by the minute, by the day.
• 13:22
  Christie: And some things are gonna be by the year.
• 13:24
  Christie: Sometimes some things are taking a little longer to evolve in their hearts and minds.
• 13:28
  Christie: But nothing is permanent, I mean.
• 13:31
  Cheryl: And you mentioned a word that's so desperately important to them is the word independent
• 13:38
  Christie: Absolutely.
• 13:39
  Cheryl: And not even, um, actual independence, but their feeling.
• 13:45
  Cheryl: Yes, yes.
• 13:46
  Cheryl: That they're being independent.
• 13:47
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 13:47
  Cheryl: And one of mine, who I wouldn't say was high on the independent scale, but she came back later and said, mom, I will tell you there are so many things you could have done, but the minefield was if I felt you were doubting my independence.
• 14:03
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 14:03
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 14:04
  Cheryl: or talking in any way against my independence, that could have been mm-hmm.
• 14:08
  Cheryl: a deal breaker because at all cost.
• 14:11
  Cheryl: Even little tiny comments, right?
• 14:13
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 14:14
  Cheryl: If it impinged on their feeling that we respect them and their independence, right?
• 14:19
  Cheryl: So in my interaction with them.
• 14:21
  Cheryl: Right.
• 14:21
  Cheryl: I would really work to show I respect you, right?
• 14:25
  Cheryl: And.
• 14:26
  Cheryl: That respond, not react, that I'm prepared to respond, showing respect to what they're doing.
• 14:33
  Cheryl: Even if I think This is the dumbest idea in the world, but that I don't want to do that because I want to maintain the relationship.
• 14:41
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 14:42
  Christie: It's no different than when they were three years old and they brought you their little art creation.
• 14:47
  Christie: They made you, you did it a little, you know, oh, that doesn't even look like a tree.
• 14:50
  Christie: It doesn't, you know.
• 14:52
  Christie: You are so proud of their work and, and you celebrated their efforts and it's just more dangerous
• 14:57
  Ellen: from there on that
• 14:58
  Cheryl: final launch there.
• 14:59
  Cheryl: True.
• 15:00
  Cheryl: This was, I like that.
• 15:01
  Cheryl: That's the mindset.
• 15:02
  Cheryl: Why were we so affirming and encouraging?
• 15:06
  Cheryl: You know, because we, I think because we still had control.
• 15:09
  Ellen: That's right.
• 15:10
  Ellen: That's little ages.
• 15:12
  Ellen: You know, we could encourage, but we could keep the, the fence around their lives.
• 15:16
  Ellen: I think one of the things that I learned is kind of.
• 15:20
  Ellen: The leaving person.
• 15:22
  Ellen: Set the rules.
• 15:23
  Ellen: Yes.
• 15:23
  Ellen: Very good.
• 15:24
  Ellen: In the relationship.
• 15:25
  Ellen: Mm-hmm.
• 15:25
  Ellen: you know, cuz the relationship's changing and the releasing is also me saying, okay, I can't control everything.
• 15:33
  Ellen: They don't need advice.
• 15:34
  Ellen: It makes them feel like I don't trust them or I think they're incompetent, and let them set the rules if they wanna move out and not talk to me.
• 15:44
  Ellen: For a month or two.
• 15:46
  Ellen: That's okay.
• 15:46
  Ellen: That's what adults do.
• 15:48
  Ellen: Mm-hmm.
• 15:48
  Ellen: you know, my mother and I don't talk, I mean, we did when she got older, but you know, we didn't talk every single day when I moved out.
• 15:55
  Ellen: Mm-hmm.
• 15:55
  Cheryl: yeah.
• 15:55
  Cheryl: So, and and you're not talking about enmeshed No.
• 15:59
  Cheryl: Right.
• 15:59
  Cheryl: We're talking about interdependence, but I'd like it, they need to be the one to decide, you know, what's the communication between the ship and the shore?
• 16:07
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 16:08
  Cheryl: Right.
• 16:08
  Cheryl: That one's really good.
• 16:09
  Ellen: Cheryl, when you do that, it makes them feel like, oh, my parents really do trust me.
• 16:14
  Ellen: That's right.
• 16:15
  Ellen: To make decisions, even though in your head you're going, oh my gosh.
• 16:18
  Ellen: But you know, it makes them feel like
• 16:21
  Christie: they're an adult and when they feel respected and that you're giving them dignity, they want to be with you.
• 16:26
  Christie: Yes.
• 16:26
  Christie: They want to have relationship
• 16:28
  Cheryl: with you.
• 16:29
  Cheryl: And when I realized the rules were changing.
• 16:32
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 16:32
  Cheryl: like what you're talking about, huge.
• 16:34
  Cheryl: The rules have changed.
• 16:36
  Cheryl: And I realized Two actually quit giving my input Although I didn't do it well so much before, we've talked about the training years.
• 16:45
  Cheryl: Oh, let me tell you, teach, teach, teach.
• 16:47
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 16:47
  Cheryl: and I had Two different times when They were sharing things and they were so used to, let me share, here's thoughts Blah, blah, blah.
• 16:56
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 16:56
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 16:57
  Cheryl: mom, what do you think?
• 16:57
  Cheryl: And all I said,, oh, okay.
• 17:00
  Cheryl: That's interesting.
• 17:03
  Cheryl: And the sound was deafening to them.
• 17:05
  Cheryl: Uhhuh.
• 17:05
  Cheryl: And they kept talking.
• 17:06
  Cheryl: And then both, both of them, two different ones.
• 17:09
  Cheryl: And they're right at the same age, probably 20.
• 17:14
  Cheryl: And they said, oh, come mom.
• 17:15
  Cheryl: It's obvious you're not telling what you think Yeah.
• 17:19
  Cheryl: And I really want to know.
• 17:21
  Cheryl: Right.
• 17:22
  Cheryl: Oh, you do?
• 17:22
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 17:23
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 17:24
  Cheryl: Let me think about it.
• 17:25
  Cheryl: Uhhuh.
• 17:25
  Cheryl: And they were so shocked.
• 17:26
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 17:27
  Cheryl: That even when they invited me in mm-hmm.
• 17:29
  Cheryl: I said, let me think about it.
• 17:31
  Cheryl: Let me take some time.
• 17:32
  Cheryl: Because I wanted to be cautious.
• 17:35
  Cheryl: Right.
• 17:36
  Cheryl: What I said, how I said it.
• 17:37
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 17:37
  Cheryl: And whether or not I did.
• 17:39
  Cheryl: Give them advice or go, I don't know, I think you need to figure this out.
• 17:44
  Cheryl: That's
• 17:44
  Christie: so good.
• 17:44
  Christie: I learned of that from you, Cheryl and, and will have done the same thing with my girls.
• 17:49
  Christie: And I had one not too long ago.
• 17:51
  Christie: She was going on and on about something and I was just smiling and nodding and, and then she just stopped.
• 17:56
  Christie: She said, mom, I hate when you do this.
• 17:59
  Christie: I'm asking for your advice.
• 18:00
  Christie: Won't you tell me what you want, what you think I should do?
• 18:03
  Christie: And, and I did the same thing.
• 18:04
  Christie: Well, let me think about how I would respond to that and Yeah.
• 18:07
  Christie: Because yeah, they don't want us rushing in telling them how to live their lives at this point.
• 18:12
  Christie: We're trying to
• 18:12
  Cheryl: fix it.
• 18:13
  Cheryl: Right.
• 18:13
  Cheryl: You know?
• 18:14
  Cheryl: And I think the undergirding thing, is it saying, I respect you.
• 18:17
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 18:18
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 18:18
  Cheryl: I respect your life.
• 18:20
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 18:20
  Cheryl: as an adult.
• 18:21
  Cheryl: Right.
• 18:21
  Cheryl: And I'm going to, and work with it.
• 18:25
  Cheryl: And, and there's another instance with someone and they had a huge decision and I was involved in a lot of the work heading towards trying to make this decision and what should she do and had to do with advanced education and all these opportunities.
• 18:39
  Cheryl: And I was very involved cuz she wanted me helping her with some of the logistics or evaluations.
• 18:45
  Cheryl: And I listed a lot.
• 18:47
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 18:47
  Cheryl: But I had an opinion about it, but I actually.
• 18:52
  Cheryl: did the wise thing, followed my own advice.
• 18:54
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 18:55
  Cheryl: and I waited and I prayed about it.
• 18:57
  Cheryl: And then when I felt like it was the right time, I said, could we have a conversation about this huge decision you're making?
• 19:05
  Cheryl: And then she goes, sure.
• 19:07
  Cheryl: And I go, and I don't want to talk to you as your mom.
• 19:09
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 19:09
  Cheryl: I want to talk to you as your friend.
• 19:11
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 19:11
  Cheryl: So y I'm just gonna share with you how I feel.
• 19:15
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 19:15
  Cheryl: and I want you to take it or leave it and we're just talking as friends and it was an amazing conversation and very real and I'm just so thankful I handled that.
• 19:27
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 19:28
  Cheryl: With that kind of wisdom.
• 19:29
  Christie: Okay.
• 19:29
  Christie: So I wanna ask you a, did she take your advice and.
• 19:34
  Christie: If she didn't, how you, would you have responded had she not taken your advice?
• 19:38
  Cheryl: Well, I'm more mature than I used to be.
• 19:41
  Cheryl: and so actually it turned out she really did agree.
• 19:44
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 19:45
  Cheryl: And at her heart of hearts, cuz that was what the thing was all these opportunities.
• 19:49
  Cheryl: But what I saw, I thought I saw in her heart of hearts.
• 19:53
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 19:53
  Cheryl: And so she actually really agreed.
• 19:55
  Cheryl: So you helped confirm.
• 19:56
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 19:57
  Cheryl: What she was already, I kind of put words to.
• 20:00
  Cheryl: it.
• 20:00
  Cheryl: And that's what came to the top.
• 20:01
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 20:01
  Cheryl: Then she really talked about her heart of hearts rather than looking at all the superficial stuff up here.
• 20:08
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 20:08
  Cheryl: And if she had said no, it wouldn't have bothered me at all.
• 20:11
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 20:12
  Cheryl: And how that turned out.
• 20:13
  Cheryl: Right.
• 20:13
  Cheryl: But this is the wisdom of being wiser than when I was dumber.
• 20:16
  Ellen: friendly laugh
• 20:18
  Cheryl: Right.
• 20:18
  Cheryl: You know?
• 20:18
  Christie: And you had earned that respect with her.
• 20:21
  Christie: Yes.
• 20:21
  Ellen: Yeah, I did.
• 20:22
  Ellen: And that shows that you're really releasing Yeah.
• 20:24
  Ellen: Mm-hmm.
• 20:24
  Ellen: because you know, when you are really.
• 20:26
  Ellen: You are, there's no, I'm letting the rope out this far and then I'm pulling it back.
• 20:31
  Ellen: It's, I'm done.
• 20:32
  Ellen: Right.
• 20:33
  Ellen: You're, I love you.
• 20:34
  Ellen: You come talk to me anytime you want to, but bye.
• 20:37
  Ellen: I love that.
• 20:38
  Cheryl: And, If I were a parent in those years, I'd say, yeah, but there are times to do something, not just sit back.
• 20:45
  Cheryl: Yes, yes.
• 20:46
  Cheryl: And so I would say, I think when you were saying that it's the flip of when they were little.
• 20:51
  Cheryl: When they were little, the younger they were, it was kind of more important that we act first.
• 20:56
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 20:57
  Cheryl: we move more quickly.
• 21:00
  Cheryl: And I would say during these years that actually taking a step, intervening, doing something is definitely not first or maybe six on the list.
• 21:11
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 21:12
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 21:12
  Cheryl: But we wait.
• 21:13
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 21:14
  Cheryl: But There is a place to, to do things that is more than just being friends from the shore.
• 21:21
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 21:21
  Christie: Well, I was thinking of an area that we haven't really touched on of the releasing, and that's the finances of starting to release what we pay for and what we don't, especially if they're in school or not able to, you know, support themselves yet.
• 21:35
  Christie: And I'm just thinking, I know I've experienced temptation.
• 21:38
  Christie: I see other parents experiencing temptation to pay for things so that you have a little more control over that area.
• 21:46
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 21:47
  Christie: and it, it's a real, um, Thing if you're paying for it, you get a voice question.
• 21:53
  Christie: School you're going to, or what car you buy.
• 21:56
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 21:56
  Christie: But I, I've just realized the quicker I can quit paying for things doesn't just help my pocketbook, but it also helps the relationship.
• 22:04
  Christie: The more I can put on their, on their side.
• 22:06
  Christie: Absolutely.
• 22:07
  Christie: To be responsible for,
• 22:08
  Cheryl: Oh Yes and I would say, if you were saying, do you think we should pay for this?
• 22:14
  Cheryl: Number one, I would say, isn't it Enabling or enabling?
• 22:18
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 22:18
  Cheryl: And the second is, do you have any strings of attachment?
• 22:22
  Cheryl: Are you getting control attachment, check your part.
• 22:25
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 22:26
  Cheryl: What is your motivation for doing it?
• 22:28
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 22:29
  Cheryl: because there are places, well, you know,
• 22:30
  Ellen: that reminds me of a funny story when, um, my th uh, third child was probably oh, 12 or 13 years old, and my parents were fairly well off.
• 22:40
  Ellen: And it wasn't unusual for my mother to.
• 22:44
  Ellen: Money.
• 22:44
  Ellen: Mm-hmm.
• 22:45
  Ellen: just to help.
• 22:46
  Ellen: And um, usually we just put it in the bank.
• 22:49
  Ellen: Sometimes we did need it, but we didn't ever really ask her.
• 22:52
  Ellen: But every once in a while, um, I forget what the situation was, but, and she'd do it behind my dad's back, so that made it really awkward so that they kind of had this little running, you know, he would buy something, then she would buy some something.
• 23:06
  Ellen: Mm-hmm.
• 23:06
  Ellen: That's a whole other, that's a whole other world, dynamic world.
• 23:09
  Ellen: That's a different podcast.
• 23:10
  Ellen: Yes, exactly.
• 23:11
  Ellen: And so one time, Sent us a check.
• 23:13
  Ellen: And uh, my daughter looked at it and she, she said, oh, that was a lot of money.
• 23:18
  Ellen: And I go, Uhhuh.
• 23:20
  Ellen: And she goes, oh, I can hear the chains rattling on that.
• 23:22
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 23:23
  Ellen: So, and this was a, you know, a middle school kid understanding, I just still think of that when she goes, yeah, you can hear the chains rattling on that.
• 23:30
  Ellen: Wow.
• 23:30
  Ellen: How insightful.
• 23:31
  Cheryl: Yes it was.
• 23:32
  Cheryl: And see, that's so unhealthy for both.
• 23:34
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 23:34
  Cheryl: It's unhealthy for the young adults that you're releasing, right?
• 23:37
  Cheryl: And it's unhealthy for us.
• 23:40
  Cheryl: but I think those
• 23:40
  Ellen: are the things that in your own mind, you have to start about junior high, starting to think through, what am I paying for?
• 23:49
  Ellen: Yep.
• 23:49
  Ellen: When am I not right?
• 23:50
  Ellen: How am I gonna help my hi kids develop good financial habits?
• 23:54
  Ellen: How, what?
• 23:55
  Ellen: How much do I give if they're working, how much, if they're going to school?
• 23:59
  Ellen: How much?
• 23:59
  Ellen: Yes.
• 23:59
  Ellen: So those are really, really good questions because I've always told my children, until you're financially independent, you're not an adult.
• 24:07
  Ellen: That's right.
• 24:07
  Ellen: Mm-hmm.
• 24:08
  Ellen: Mm-hmm.
• 24:08
  Ellen: Because you're not, you're still needing mom and dad to pay
• 24:10
  Christie: for stuff.
• 24:11
  Christie: Well, and you're creating an atmosphere in the relationship really early on.
• 24:14
  Christie: So then later on when you do want to bless your kids, right.
• 24:18
  Christie: Hopefully it wouldn't be like with your, it would just be a, a free blessing that I wanna take you lunch or I wanna buy this
• 24:25
  Ellen: for you.
• 24:25
  Cheryl: I like talking about it.
• 24:27
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 24:28
  Cheryl: getting it out on the board instead of it.
• 24:30
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 24:30
  Cheryl: Ambiguous, you know?
• 24:32
  Cheryl: Right.
• 24:32
  Cheryl: What can we do, can we depend on our parents to bail us out financially?
• 24:35
  Cheryl: How much?
• 24:36
  Cheryl: Right.
• 24:36
  Cheryl: Where, where all the lines make it very clear.
• 24:39
  Cheryl: Business arrangement, if you, um, This is really good.
• 24:43
  Cheryl: So here at the end, while we've covered so much territory, is there anything else that we haven't brought up that you would want to speak into this launching years, uh, ex uh, attitude or one who wanna wrap up or.
• 25:01
  Ellen: I think again, just reiterating, prepare yourself.
• 25:06
  Ellen: Mm-hmm.
• 25:06
  Ellen: don't be so one-dimensional that that's all that's been important to you is just raising your children because you are more than that and they're more than that.
• 25:16
  Ellen: Mm-hmm.
• 25:17
  Ellen: and that will make better harmony.
• 25:22
  Ellen: you know, in a family, if your children aren't feeling guilty, cuz oh, poor mom doesn't have anything else to do once I leave.
• 25:29
  Cheryl: You know, Ellen, you've talked so much about.
• 25:32
  Cheryl: don't be one dimensional and develop other interests and so forth.
• 25:36
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 25:36
  Cheryl: and particularly as a widow, I have it.
• 25:39
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 25:39
  Cheryl: More challenging than I would have if Bill were still here, but one of my very grown children Cuz they're approaching much when they're approaching middle-aged.
• 25:50
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 25:50
  Cheryl: And said, it is so encouraging to me to watch you at your age, developing, creating, doing new things.
• 26:00
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 26:00
  Cheryl: starting a podcast, but that I'm developing myself as a human being, being and not saying, well these are my post children.
• 26:09
  Cheryl: Emptiness, you know.
• 26:12
  Cheryl: And that I'm going here.
• 26:13
  Cheryl: Right.
• 26:15
  Cheryl: and, uh, we have a great relationship.
• 26:17
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 26:18
  Cheryl: But he said, instead of saying, wow, that's the declining Right.
• 26:23
  Cheryl: Terrible years and I'm blessed with health.
• 26:25
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 26:25
  Cheryl: But still my attitude, how I'm approaching it.
• 26:29
  Cheryl: I didn't realize their watching so much.
• 26:33
  Cheryl: They're
• 26:34
  Christie: still learning from you.
• 26:35
  Ellen: Yes.
• 26:35
  Ellen: They're watching as we approach our senior years
• 26:37
  Cheryl: how do we handle it?
• 26:38
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 26:39
  Cheryl: Because he.
• 26:40
  Cheryl: older adults in our family that weren't growing and becoming and doing and creating.
• 26:46
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 26:46
  Cheryl: And so I just want to encourage y'all all that your children are still learning, even though you're way past the training years.
• 26:54
  Cheryl: Wow.
• 26:55
  Ellen: Well, you never stop parenting.
• 26:56
  Ellen: Mm-hmm.
• 26:57
  Ellen: just looks different.
• 26:59
  Christie: Well, I was just thinking too, what, what a relief that is.
• 27:02
  Christie: Take, take the pressure off of them to, you know, be our own person and develop ourselves and they don't feel the pressure to entertain us.
• 27:10
  Christie: Yes, yes.
• 27:11
  Christie: And keep us, you know, happy and healthy, like poor,
• 27:14
  Cheryl: lonely parents
• 27:14
  Christie: standing at the parent.
• 27:16
  Christie: Well, I guess I'll go by mom's house and see how she's doing.
• 27:18
  Christie: Check on her.
• 27:19
  Christie: Yeah.
• 27:20
  Christie: Very good.
• 27:20
  Cheryl: And I think I would say, and it's something I grapple with at different levels, the old not taking it personally.
• 27:28
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 27:28
  Cheryl: you know, particularly when they make choices that I would not make or Right.
• 27:32
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 27:33
  Cheryl: these are adults now.
• 27:34
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 27:34
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 27:34
  Cheryl: And particularly we're talking about independent adults, they're making choices possibly or going in directions.
• 27:41
  Cheryl: That I wouldn't want that,
• 27:44
  Ellen: It.
• 27:45
  Cheryl: You know, to not take it trying, working it, not taking it personally.
• 27:48
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 27:49
  Cheryl: because it's their life that they're living.
• 27:51
  Cheryl: They're not living their life as my child.
• 27:53
  Cheryl: Right.
• 27:54
  Cheryl: Right.
• 27:54
  Cheryl: And that it's their life and that I'm releasing them because, I want to remember my goal was for them to flourish.
• 28:04
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 28:04
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 28:04
  Cheryl: as adults.
• 28:05
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 28:05
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 28:06
  Cheryl: And so they get the choice of deciding what that is.
• 28:11
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 28:11
  Cheryl: instead of I taking it personally.
• 28:13
  Cheryl: And even if they did make radically different choices and poor choices.
• 28:19
  Cheryl: I did not parent so that they would be clones to do what I wanted them to do in their adult life.
• 28:26
  Ellen: That's
• 28:27
  Cheryl: really good.
• 28:28
  Cheryl: I wanted to parent them to love them well for their best.
• 28:32
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 28:33
  Cheryl: And to equip them.
• 28:34
  Cheryl: To equip them.
• 28:36
  Cheryl: but it's their choice.
• 28:37
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 28:38
  Cheryl: Right.
• 28:38
  Cheryl: And even if they walk away from everything or make horrendous decisions, wherever that is on the spectrum mm-hmm.
• 28:43
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 28:44
  Cheryl: but correcting myself to say, remember you were not parenting for the fruit.
• 28:49
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 28:49
  Cheryl: You are parenting because you love them and you want to give yourself.
• 28:52
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 28:52
  Cheryl: And that's helped me so much.
• 28:54
  Cheryl: That's really good perspective.
• 28:54
  Christie: That's, yeah.
• 28:55
  Christie: That's so good.
• 28:56
  Christie: I, I love that flourishing, like wanting them to flourish even if you don't agree with some of the ways they're choosing but, but them as a whole person that they're.
• 29:06
  Christie: living their lives individually and something I've been really trying to work on in the last year or so is just cheering my kids on, like just, oh, that's really nice.
• 29:15
  Christie: Celebrating any, any win I see in their life, whether it be their character or circumstantial, and just helping them to feel like I'm their biggest cheerleader.
• 29:27
  Christie: You know, not, not in, you know, maybe not in the areas that are headed towards doom or, you know, frustration, but there's always something to cheer on.
• 29:36
  Christie: I love the way you're working hard at this.
• 29:38
  Christie: I love the way that you've received that disappointment or, yes, very good.
• 29:42
  Christie: Just cheering them on.
• 29:43
  Christie: And we
• 29:43
  Ellen: have to, depending on, um, where we are spiritually, there's a place of understanding that god has a plan.
• 29:52
  Cheryl: Absolutely.
• 29:53
  Cheryl: Yes
• 29:53
  Ellen: Yes.
• 29:53
  Ellen: God is greater.
• 29:54
  Ellen: Than any plans I've laid.
• 29:56
  Ellen: Any thoughts I've had.
• 29:58
  Ellen: Any good training or bad training I do.
• 30:00
  Ellen: And that my children are learning to walk with God because ultimately that's what we're working towards, that my children will have relationship with God and that they will lean on him in their troubles.
• 30:12
  Ellen: They know their family's there, but they have to develop that mature adult relationship.
• 30:18
  Ellen: And we all know that takes a long time and we're not finished either.
• 30:22
  Ellen: Right.
• 30:23
  Cheryl: Absolutely
• 30:24
  Christie: Yeah, that's
• 30:24
  really
• 30:24
  Christie: good.
• 30:25
  Cheryl: Excellent.
• 30:26
  Cheryl: Excellent.
• 30:27
  Cheryl: That's a great conclusion, Ellen.
• 30:29
  Cheryl: As we wrap this up parents, even during the launching years, hang in there.
• 30:36
  Cheryl: Keep loving, keep persevering because it's worth it.
• 30:46
  Personally, I really got so much from our discussion of this subject when we originally recorded it, and even more now as I've been preparing it for you, because as I mentioned, I am still in that season.
• 31:03
  Remember, the childhood is only the beginning portion of their lives and our active parenting years will end.
• 31:13
  But this season does not.
• 31:16
  Some of the things that I really connected with is that amid the excitement, that there's grief in the releasing and the importance of showing respect of them as adults, even though they may be acting like children.
• 31:35
  Which one aspect of this season jumps out at you?
• 31:39
  Let us hear about it.
• 31:41
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• 31:45
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• 31:49
  Next time we answer a question from a listener.
• 31:53
  About parenting their stronger, more determined children without crushing their spirit.
• 32:00
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• 32:02
  Don't forget the Parenting podcast is help for today and for your future.