Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Golf star murdered on golf course; Jilted girlfriend's 'sinister' stalking campaign against ex

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Golf star murdered on golf course; Jilted girlfriend's 'sinister' stalking campaign against ex · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

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Speaker 1: If you have heard about the murder of Jessica Chambers,
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Speaker 1: And how does such a horrific crime occur? With more
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Speaker 1: The Killing of Jessica Chambers. Saturdays at seven six Central
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Speaker 1: on Oxygen, the new network for crime, Crime Stories with
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Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. A beautiful young golfer, a pro headed for
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Speaker 1: great things, Celia Barkin found dead murdered on an Iowa
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Speaker 1: golf course on Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank
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Speaker 1: you for being with us. What can we learn from
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Speaker 1: the nine one one call? Listen? They're concerned they saw
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Speaker 1: a female out of golf things on the course and
1:41
Speaker 1: she's nowhere to be found any longer. They found her
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Speaker 1: clubs and other property or cell phone and a ball
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Speaker 1: cap at whole number nine. They don't know where she
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Speaker 1: disappeared to looking for a white female blond pan or
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Speaker 1: twentyes tal I see if golf team someone thought that
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Speaker 1: they were calling the code find out where she went
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Speaker 1: about on ninth Fairway right now with the golf staff.
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Speaker 1: They said that her items were scattered here next to
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Speaker 1: her bed. A lot of stuff laying on the ground,
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Speaker 1: including her head, ratings finder and cell phone. Female was
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Speaker 1: last see we're in a red T shirt and light
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Speaker 1: colored short They weren't sure if they were white but
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Speaker 1: lighter color. A beautiful young golfer and Iowa college student
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Speaker 1: found dead on an upscale golf course. Who would attack
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Speaker 1: a student actually a golf champion in broad daylight fearing
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Speaker 1: no repercussion? Joining me Raymond Judah Chay, renowned Atlanta defense attorney,
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Speaker 1: Karen Smith, forensics expert out of the Florida jurisdiction, Fulton
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Speaker 1: County Medical Examiner Dr Jan Gornia and joining me right now.
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Speaker 1: Crime online dot Com investigative reporter where you can find
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Speaker 1: this and all other breaking crime and justice news. Chuck,
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Speaker 1: let's start at the beginning. This young girl, Celia Barkin,
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Speaker 1: is just twenty two years old, as she had just
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Speaker 1: won the European Ladies Amateur Championship. She as I said,
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Speaker 1: a student at Iowa State, and I understand that golfers
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Speaker 1: at the upscale Cold Water Golf Links in Aims first
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Speaker 1: found an unattended golf bag out on the course early
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Speaker 1: Monday morning. What happened next, Chuck? They immediately called nine
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Speaker 1: on one. They found her bag. They had seen her
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Speaker 1: earlier on the course. She was playing alone early in
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Speaker 1: the morning on Monday. They found her bag on the
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Speaker 1: ninth fairway, along with her cell phone and ball cap,
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Speaker 1: and she was nowhere around. So they called police at
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Speaker 1: about a quarter of ten. Well, hold on, hold on
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Speaker 1: just a moment, you know, Chuck, I appreciate your obvious
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Speaker 1: knowledge of the game of golf, but you know, from
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Speaker 1: my understanding, anybody on the panel of golfer, because I
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Speaker 1: understand it takes five to eight hours. Raymonds, you to Chay,
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Speaker 1: you're the swanky, high flying defense lawyer. Don't you get
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Speaker 1: out there with your dope clients and go play golf
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Speaker 1: all day? Long. I mean, isn't that what the criminal
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Speaker 1: defense business is all about. That's where we meet some
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Speaker 1: of our best clients out there. On it is a
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Speaker 1: young lady that it's an athlete like as this young
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Speaker 1: lady I was at the time. She could probably walk
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Speaker 1: a eighteen whole course and a couple of hours. I
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Speaker 1: would say, uh, because she's you know, she's a professional athlete,
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Speaker 1: in great shape, and probably in the middle of the day,
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Speaker 1: there's not a whole lot of golfers ahead of earth,
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Speaker 1: not like a busy Saturday morning at a fan but
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Speaker 1: it was the morning. Let me ask you a couple
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Speaker 1: of pointed questions for those of us non golfers. Um,
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Speaker 1: the last time I had a golf ball, let's say, Raymond.
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Speaker 1: It was during the Jodi Arias trial, and I would
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Speaker 1: take the twins in my spare time when I wasn't
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Speaker 1: in the courthouse to a place called cracker Jack's and
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Speaker 1: they had a golf Well, I don't know what you
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Speaker 1: call it. You stand there in a line with a
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Speaker 1: bunch of other people on either side of you, and
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Speaker 1: you hit golf balls into a net far away. Oh,
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Speaker 1: I don't, I don't guess. Goofy golf, A k A
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Speaker 1: putt put counts so right? How long does it take
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Speaker 1: to play a game of golf? Again, it depends how
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Speaker 1: eighteen holes, how busy the course is ahead of you,
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Speaker 1: and are you playing in a foursome where everybody's got
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Speaker 1: a hit? Uh? That's that could be as you said,
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Speaker 1: the three to five hour endeavor a solo golfer. Uh
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Speaker 1: as ms Uh. This young lady was who was an athlete,
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Speaker 1: and it's not out there drinking beers, you know, guy
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Speaker 1: golf and telling jokes. She was working on her game,
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Speaker 1: which means hit the ball, get to the ball, hit
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Speaker 1: the next ball, keep moving along, uh walking or maybe
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Speaker 1: with a card. So I would say that her exposure.
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Speaker 1: In other words, how long was she had on the
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Speaker 1: course from start to potential completion would be two hours
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Speaker 1: too and a half hours For the rest of us
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Speaker 1: Saturday morning golfers, it's a four to five hour uh,
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Speaker 1: and we're trying not to go home to our wives.
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Speaker 1: We want to stay out on the course and uh
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Speaker 1: tell dirty jokes and smoke cigars and drink beer and
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Speaker 1: and tell everybody we were a scratch golfer. So no
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Speaker 1: pun intended. So I think she was probably out there
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Speaker 1: for about two hours. Okay, now I know why I
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Speaker 1: never played golf. Okay, Um, we have some indications she
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Speaker 1: had only been out there. Well we we know from
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Speaker 1: what Judah Chase telling us is two hours or less.
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Speaker 1: But I have reason to believe it's less than that.
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Speaker 1: Even that was an outside figure. What I'm trying to
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Speaker 1: figure out, it's what happened to this young Iowa student
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Speaker 1: murdered on a golf course. Listen to more than I'm
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Speaker 1: amore called have all white female wearing a black under
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Speaker 1: armoured port broad flat skirt. That's here to see if
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Speaker 1: you only to attempt terry little her from the water
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Speaker 1: at that point, happy to it can We got duncan
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Speaker 1: and I headed that way. I am on the far
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Speaker 1: north end of whole nine at the pond on the
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Speaker 1: north end of the I'm gonna stand by, and I
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Speaker 1: pulled the female up to the thing. Yeah, we'll need
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Speaker 1: think that's just down here. Um, we'll need to come
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Speaker 1: to harry A pretty much. This place, Cold Water Golf
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Speaker 1: Links is is absolutely beautiful. I'm taking a look at
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Speaker 1: it right now, perfectly manicured. You would never have a
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Speaker 1: clue that a murder was about to go down to
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Speaker 1: Karen Smith, forensics expert. We have reason to believe that
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Speaker 1: she was out in the open for really only about
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Speaker 1: thirty minutes less. What does that tell you about her
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Speaker 1: killer willing to attack out in the open on a
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Speaker 1: golf course. Well, it was certainly a crime of opportunity, Nancy.
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Speaker 1: This is somebody who was either watching her, or a
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Speaker 1: state or lived nearby. Um. You know when you golf
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Speaker 1: courses normally are closed facility, they're spencing around it. You
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Speaker 1: have a clubhouse, you have people either keying off in
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Speaker 1: front of you or putting behind you. So this person
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Speaker 1: whoever did this was either watching her or had seen
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Speaker 1: her prior. That is my opinion in this case. I mean,
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Speaker 1: she's a celebrity in the golf world. There's no telling
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Speaker 1: how many people have seen her. I mean, Ray, when
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Speaker 1: you look at a professional golf tournament, let's just say
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Speaker 1: the Masters, the sidelines are packed. Do you want to
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Speaker 1: tell me there's not one freaky stalker dude in there
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Speaker 1: watching these women out there playing golf. Not even one
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Speaker 1: of course. And you know the predators find the prey. Uh,
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Speaker 1: they know where the weak length, the the zebra at
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Speaker 1: the end of the pack, so to speak, is and
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Speaker 1: here is a Now I agree with you, Nancy, and
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Speaker 1: I wish the world we all do was a place
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Speaker 1: that was safe for women by themselves and young children.
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Speaker 1: But we have to be realistic that there are predators
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Speaker 1: out there and they know where to go. Now, a
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Speaker 1: golf course, as you said, a beautiful course, and as
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Speaker 1: was pointed out, probably surrounded by fencing, perhaps as we
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Speaker 1: have here in Metcha Atlanta. The course is surrounded by
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Speaker 1: beautiful neighborhoods that are gated. She had to have come
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Speaker 1: through the clubhouse usually to start, so there will be
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Speaker 1: a check in time that she walked through the clubhouse
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Speaker 1: to get to the first t or, as I think
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Speaker 1: Chuck pointed out, she may have been playing what's called
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Speaker 1: the back nine where she started in the middle of
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Speaker 1: the course. Perhaps there's a challenging uh you know, a
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Speaker 1: hole that had required certain skill sets that she was
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Speaker 1: working on. This This lady was not golfing for entertainment.
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Speaker 1: She this is her profession. This is this is what
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Speaker 1: she does. So she was out there working and concentrating
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Speaker 1: to get better. But as was ap Aptlete pointed out,
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Speaker 1: this is a clearly a crime of opportunity. It's um
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Speaker 1: good holding back tears. Harley Thornton has a hard time
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Speaker 1: finding his words. A Monday morning here at Coldwater Golf
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Speaker 1: Links and Ames turned into a traumatic experience. Thornton and
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Speaker 1: three friends were golfing when they met a young woman
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Speaker 1: who he describes as an experienced golfer in her twenties.
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Speaker 1: Very nice young lady came up with a push guard
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Speaker 1: and uh, we've all agreed that she should go in
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Speaker 1: front of us. I knew should be a lot faster
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Speaker 1: and a bunch of old men. But when they got
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Speaker 1: to the ninth hole, he says, the woman's golf clubs
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Speaker 1: and cell phone. We're sitting there, but she was nowhere inside.
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Speaker 1: This was very strange and not right. There's no reason
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Speaker 1: to abandon your clubs in the middle of the fairway.
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Speaker 1: Thornton says he called the clubhouse, who told him they
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Speaker 1: hadn't seen her either was his next call. Ames police
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Speaker 1: interviewed Thornton to get a grasp on the timeline. We
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Speaker 1: sorry about then when I called the clubhouse and it
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Speaker 1: was ten ten. He also described the scene at the
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Speaker 1: ninth hole, saying he found several teas scattered about. He
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Speaker 1: believes was the victims golf hat could easily have been
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Speaker 1: where she was apprehended and struggled enough to lose the
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Speaker 1: ballmarker off of the tap. Orton says he didn't see
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Speaker 1: anything suspicious or hear any screams. With hundreds of apartments
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Speaker 1: in plain view across the street, he doesn't understand how
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Speaker 1: something like this could happen ten o'clock in the morning
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Speaker 1: with whole view of anyone that wanted to look. That's
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Speaker 1: a very brazen act, you're hearing, golfer Harley Thornton speaking
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Speaker 1: to our friend Laura Chrell at case C C I.
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Speaker 1: The golfing world is stunned as a bright lights life
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Speaker 1: brought to a sudden end this twenty two year old
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Speaker 1: young pro. She I call her a pro. She had
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Speaker 1: just one of the European Ladies Amateur in Slovakia. She
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Speaker 1: is an Iowa College student, and that when in Europe,
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Speaker 1: secured her invitation to next year's Women's British Open. That
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Speaker 1: is a huge, big deal, the British Open in the
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Speaker 1: golf world. She also had just advanced last month to
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Speaker 1: Stage two of the LPGA Tour qualifying tournament. She's on fire.
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Speaker 1: Her family and friends stunned at the news she is
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Speaker 1: murdered on a Monday morning and broad day light on
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Speaker 1: a golf course. To Dr Jane Gorniac, Fulton County medical examiner,
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Speaker 1: very well known in her field. Dr Gorniac, thank you
12:55
Speaker 1: for being with us. Dr Gorniac. We have heard the
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Speaker 1: phrase crime of opportunity thrown around quite often, But is
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Speaker 1: there any way when you are conducting an autopsy that
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Speaker 1: you can tell that, No, we can't so the crime
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Speaker 1: of opportunity. When we go to the scene, which in
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Speaker 1: this case will be the golf course, we take into accounts,
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Speaker 1: like everybody's saying, the time of day where she was
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Speaker 1: found compared to where her her stuff is found, her
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Speaker 1: golf clubs, her hat, things like that. But just like
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Speaker 1: any other citizens, we can say, yes that it appears
13:33
Speaker 1: to be a climate opportunity, but from the medical legal standpoint,
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Speaker 1: we can't say that. So. Raymond Judaica Atlanta defense attorney
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Speaker 1: joining me, what will they be looking for to determine
13:44
Speaker 1: any potential motive? Well, I think that one thing. First
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Speaker 1: of all, there's going to be anticipated an enormous amount
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Speaker 1: of DNA exchange between the perpetrator and the victim. This
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Speaker 1: is a very physical one on one UH fight that
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Speaker 1: led to her death. I would anticipate there may be
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Speaker 1: defensive wounds on the perpetrator, that there would be contact
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Speaker 1: and skin exchange and perhaps blood exchange, fingernails scratching, things
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Speaker 1: like that, that type of a fight, especially with this
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Speaker 1: young lady who was an athlete, who probably would not
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Speaker 1: end to Keep in mind, why is it a clime
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Speaker 1: of opportunity, Because let's just take the nine one one caller,
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Speaker 1: a middle aged gentleman that was probably in a foursome.
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Speaker 1: The perpetrator is not going to go after those four guys.
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Speaker 1: He's gonna pick off the single female out there by herself,
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Speaker 1: pulling her bag, walking the course. So that's that there
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Speaker 1: are a type of facts make it what I would
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Speaker 1: allege as a clime of opportunity, where the perpetrator was
14:52
Speaker 1: looking for the weakest, most, the easy, what he perceived
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Speaker 1: to be the easiest victim out there. But boy, there's
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Speaker 1: going to be a I anticipate a lot of DNA
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Speaker 1: exchange between the body of the victim UH and the
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Speaker 1: alleged perpetrator. Right, you're absolutely corrected to Karen Smith joining
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Speaker 1: me veteran forensics expert Karen. Not only is there going
15:14
Speaker 1: to be really hand to hand mutual combat, as Ray
15:17
Speaker 1: jud to Chase pointed out, but also there is very
15:20
Speaker 1: strong evidence she was sex assaulted. And I'm telling you
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Speaker 1: I think that's the motive. Still, that doesn't tell me
15:29
Speaker 1: who the purpose unless I can get a DNA match.
15:32
Speaker 1: It could be a stalk, or it could be an
15:34
Speaker 1: ex boyfriend, it could be anybody. But what I'm saying
15:38
Speaker 1: is that's the motive. I would think. I agree with you.
15:43
Speaker 1: You know, there's a reason that this perpetrator and I'm
15:45
Speaker 1: gonna say it's a man uh shows a woman. Uh.
15:49
Speaker 1: You know, he may have been off a little bit
15:51
Speaker 1: more than he could chew if she fought back, which
15:54
Speaker 1: you know it sounds to me like she did at
15:56
Speaker 1: this point. Yes, they will do a sexual assault kit
15:59
Speaker 1: and find out that there's a new DNA uh from
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Speaker 1: her body, and they'll run it through the code of
16:04
Speaker 1: system to see if there's any matches that are already
16:06
Speaker 1: in the system. If not, they're going to have to
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Speaker 1: find a perpetrator and then get a known sample and
16:11
Speaker 1: compare it with that. Police say that Celia had broken
16:16
Speaker 1: down in tears when she found out she had been
16:18
Speaker 1: named the school's two thousand eighteen Female Athlete of the Year.
16:24
Speaker 1: That is incredible, but now people are mourning her and
16:30
Speaker 1: planning a funeral. So back to you, Dr Jane Gourney
16:35
Speaker 1: at Fulton County Medical Examiner. When you realize, I guess,
16:39
Speaker 1: because you find a body partially or totally nude, that
16:43
Speaker 1: the motive is a sex attack, how does that change
16:46
Speaker 1: the autopsy? Dr Gorne act, when we're there's a possibility
16:51
Speaker 1: that a sexual salt has occurred based on how the
16:54
Speaker 1: body was found, whether they're partially closed or there's some
16:57
Speaker 1: preliminary circumstances, we need to know that and the police
17:01
Speaker 1: usually tells us that when we go to the scene
17:04
Speaker 1: for the initial death investigation. So at the scene we
17:07
Speaker 1: will bag the hands and also when the prior to
17:10
Speaker 1: the autopsy, which is very important for us to note,
17:12
Speaker 1: is we will do a sexual sault kit which includes
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Speaker 1: um getting hair samples, head hair, pubic hair, fingernails, scrapings,
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Speaker 1: um swabs of the mouth, the vaginal area, the wrectum um.
17:26
Speaker 1: So then we will feel that and then send it
17:28
Speaker 1: off to you know, through the police or a climb
17:31
Speaker 1: lab to be tested. But it's very important that we know,
17:34
Speaker 1: so we're not rinsing off a body and losing evidence
17:36
Speaker 1: prior to collecting those samples. This woman, this young girl, Celia,
17:41
Speaker 1: was the athlete of the Year at Iowa State University.
17:44
Speaker 1: She was just a few classes away from getting her
17:47
Speaker 1: civil engineering degree. Is that right, Chuck Roberts, It is
17:51
Speaker 1: it is. She was just a few months away from that.
17:54
Speaker 1: As you pointed out, she was scheduled to go to
17:56
Speaker 1: Europe and play again. Ranked sixty nine antionally by Golf Week,
18:02
Speaker 1: ending her collegiate career with a fourth straight n C
18:05
Speaker 1: double a regional appearance, and won the Big twelve team
18:10
Speaker 1: tournament as well. So accomplished. Is certainly an understable not
18:14
Speaker 1: afraid to attack her in daylight, out on an open
18:19
Speaker 1: golf out on an open golf course. Take a listen
18:24
Speaker 1: to this. Familiarity with the golf course can be a
18:28
Speaker 1: big advantage. Bark Winter Rosamine has played here at Coldwater
18:31
Speaker 1: Names countless time. She probably knows every nook and cranny
18:34
Speaker 1: of this course. This was just a second time that
18:37
Speaker 1: she had played at the Dallas Athletic Club. The first
18:39
Speaker 1: time as a freshman, she shot a career worst eighty six.
18:43
Speaker 1: This time With the Big twelve tournament on the line,
18:46
Speaker 1: she shot a final round sixty nine to win the
18:48
Speaker 1: title by three strokes. Yeah, I've actually been talking about
18:52
Speaker 1: it with course oh year, I'm always like, oh, we're
18:54
Speaker 1: playing big tools. Here's just like stopping yourself or are
18:57
Speaker 1: you You're gonna do just fine? For out about freshman year,
19:01
Speaker 1: she hated this golf course, which also is amazing because
19:04
Speaker 1: a lot of times it's hard for golfers to get
19:06
Speaker 1: over that when they have bad thoughts about it. Though,
19:09
Speaker 1: that in itself was a huge accomplishment for her mind
19:13
Speaker 1: over matter. That's how Bark winner Rosamina has grown to
19:16
Speaker 1: become so strong mentally that when she arrived at the
19:19
Speaker 1: golf course Sunday for that final round, she celebrated weather
19:22
Speaker 1: conditions that most players dread. When I started practicing, I
19:25
Speaker 1: noticed that I'm super windy, and I love that. I'm
19:29
Speaker 1: a really good wind player. So I texted my family
19:33
Speaker 1: right before playing, I'm like, mom, it's super windy. This
19:35
Speaker 1: is great. When a lot of people kind of look
19:37
Speaker 1: at it and say, oh, man, I'm not going to
19:38
Speaker 1: play well the day, it's kind of like, she says, well,
19:41
Speaker 1: nobody else is going to play well, but I am
19:43
Speaker 1: a break in the case in the murder of a
19:46
Speaker 1: golf superstar. A young girl, an Iowa State University student,
19:51
Speaker 1: just hours away, student, hours away from getting her degree
19:55
Speaker 1: in civil engineering, brutally sexually attacked and murdered in play
20:00
Speaker 1: ain site broad Daylite on an open golf course. Her
20:04
Speaker 1: life brutally ended there. And what we're learning is the
20:09
Speaker 1: guy that is now under suspicion is Colin Richards. With
20:14
Speaker 1: a fifty page rap sheet. A fifty page rap sheet,
20:22
Speaker 1: he has gotten second, third, fourth, and fifth chances. And
20:26
Speaker 1: now we are left with the horrible realization that the
20:29
Speaker 1: justice system exercise the leniency so often that they actually
20:34
Speaker 1: freed Celia Barkin, Arisonmania's alleged killer early. This guy should
20:40
Speaker 1: have been behind bars. Chuck Roberts, Crime online dot Com
20:44
Speaker 1: investigative reporter. What are we learning in the last hours
20:48
Speaker 1: about her murder? We are learning that Colin Richards, who
20:52
Speaker 1: was living in a camp on the inn, a tent
20:55
Speaker 1: not far from the golf course, told in acquaintance the
20:58
Speaker 1: day before that he had quote an urge to rape
21:01
Speaker 1: and kill a woman that is embodied in the criminal
21:04
Speaker 1: complaint um. As you pointed out, He's been charged with
21:08
Speaker 1: abusing a girlfriend, stealing a pickup truck, using a baseball
21:12
Speaker 1: bat to smash a car window many times in the
21:14
Speaker 1: criminal system. But he was living outside that golf course
21:19
Speaker 1: and dogs tracked his scent and found Richards with fresh
21:22
Speaker 1: scratches on his face consistent with fighting, and a deep
21:27
Speaker 1: laceration in his left hand, which he tried to conceal.
21:30
Speaker 1: I am just sick, sick about this to Dr Jane Gorniac,
21:35
Speaker 1: Fulton County Medical Examiner. You know Dr Gorniac raising the twins.
21:41
Speaker 1: I gotta tell you, I put all my time when
21:44
Speaker 1: I'm not working, all my energy, all my love, all
21:47
Speaker 1: my hopes, all my dreams in them. And you know,
21:52
Speaker 1: I guess, like other middle class people all across the country,
21:56
Speaker 1: you want your child to succeed. Why not for success itself,
22:01
Speaker 1: but so their life will be easier for them, To
22:05
Speaker 1: get them through a good high school, so they can
22:08
Speaker 1: get into a college or maybe a graduate program so
22:10
Speaker 1: they can then get a job that can sustain them.
22:14
Speaker 1: I know her parents were so proud here. She is
22:18
Speaker 1: not only a star golfer at her young age of
22:23
Speaker 1: twenty two, but getting your civil engineering degree, and she's
22:28
Speaker 1: physically beautiful and by all accounts, a wonderful person, bubbly happy,
22:35
Speaker 1: thrilled that her hard work had paid off. So when
22:38
Speaker 1: all the parents dreams are just coming true, they find
22:43
Speaker 1: their daughter is murdered in such a brutal way. What
22:47
Speaker 1: does it mean to you, Dr Gorniac that he, the
22:50
Speaker 1: alleged perp, is covered in scratches and lacerations. Well, from
22:55
Speaker 1: the legal side or the medical legal side, the investigation side,
22:59
Speaker 1: we have to know compare her her hand, so she
23:03
Speaker 1: has any um injuries to her hands, fringer nails broken
23:07
Speaker 1: that could be consistent with him being scratched by her.
23:11
Speaker 1: So if we can link up injuries from her body
23:15
Speaker 1: to injuries on his body, then it's it's it's saying
23:18
Speaker 1: that he was in close proximity um to have injured this,
23:22
Speaker 1: this beautiful young lady, you know Raymond Judo Chay On
23:24
Speaker 1: October of two thousand seventeen, that's not even a year ago.
23:28
Speaker 1: The Judicial District Department of Correction Services document Richards. They
23:35
Speaker 1: document this guy and they stay Mr Richards has not
23:39
Speaker 1: been successful on probation for any length of time. They
23:42
Speaker 1: tell the judge he's in violation and he should since
23:46
Speaker 1: been the rest serve the rest of a two year sentence.
23:49
Speaker 1: He gets out early anyway, and now this he did
23:54
Speaker 1: not serve the sentence they ordered. They asked the judge
23:58
Speaker 1: too to give and now he's out. I mean, how
24:02
Speaker 1: do judges do it and live with it? Right? Uh?
24:05
Speaker 1: It is probably the nightmare that any sitting judge has
24:10
Speaker 1: is to pick up the paper for us old timers,
24:13
Speaker 1: or a front turn on the computer to see judge
24:17
Speaker 1: released defendant early who then commits horrific crime. And we
24:22
Speaker 1: have a terrible story just like this here at Metro Atlanta. Recently,
24:28
Speaker 1: we're a very good judge, a former prosecutor as a
24:31
Speaker 1: superior court judge allowed somebody out on a bond that
24:35
Speaker 1: had been charged a young man eighteen who committed a
24:38
Speaker 1: murder right here in Metro Atlanta at a country club
24:42
Speaker 1: where the victim had been leaving a wedding party. Uh.
24:46
Speaker 1: It's just awful, and so every judge and and this
24:49
Speaker 1: is why you know, some people are cut out for
24:52
Speaker 1: judge ships and some are not. They have to sleep
24:54
Speaker 1: with this every night when they put their head on
24:56
Speaker 1: the pillow. Enormous stress. Now as this gentleman's record appears,
25:00
Speaker 1: to to show he is a serial criminal, he would
25:04
Speaker 1: have gotten out sooner or later, Nancy. And from if
25:08
Speaker 1: I can say one thing, if I can as someone
25:11
Speaker 1: who has cross examined probably at this point thousands of
25:14
Speaker 1: police officers and investigators and detectives, and uh, don't I
25:19
Speaker 1: would suggest that they don't push too hard to squeeze
25:22
Speaker 1: a confession or a statement out of this alleged perpetrator, because,
25:26
Speaker 1: as the good doctor pointed out our medical examiner, there's
25:29
Speaker 1: going to be so much potential DNA evidence and exchange
25:34
Speaker 1: lit the DNA proved the case, rather than a statement
25:38
Speaker 1: that may not be properly mirandized or could be challenged,
25:42
Speaker 1: or perhaps this person is not of sufficient medical mental acuity.
25:46
Speaker 1: You know, there's so many challenges for us to be here.
25:48
Speaker 1: We go where we go with them all defense because
25:51
Speaker 1: he just told a fellow resident he wanted to rape
25:55
Speaker 1: a one. Okay. And you know, Raymond, you were around
26:00
Speaker 1: into practicing actually as a prosecutor in a nearby jurisdiction
26:04
Speaker 1: when I was prosecuting, and I guess you recall how
26:08
Speaker 1: I would labor emotionally over every case taking a plea
26:13
Speaker 1: because I look at a guy and think Wow. You
26:16
Speaker 1: know if I let this guy have probation and then
26:18
Speaker 1: he gets out and hurt somebody, kills, somebody, rapes somebody
26:21
Speaker 1: that's on me and it literally tortured me, I would
26:25
Speaker 1: be sick to my stomach, throw up the stay awaken.
26:30
Speaker 1: Trying to do the right thing. It's tortuous. Do you
26:32
Speaker 1: remember that, I do, Nancy, and I think even criminal
26:35
Speaker 1: defense flayers believe it or not on these these challenging cases.
26:40
Speaker 1: We're citizens, we have loved ones, we live in the community,
26:43
Speaker 1: our kids take school buses, and our pential predators were
26:46
Speaker 1: concerned about it. But when I'm really getting at here
26:49
Speaker 1: is there's so much physical evidence that can be presented
26:54
Speaker 1: in court by great experts like our medical examiner. Don't
26:58
Speaker 1: try to squeeze a confession and out of this this perpetrator,
27:01
Speaker 1: this alleged perpetrator up early. Get the physical evidence first,
27:06
Speaker 1: and then build your case from that. But you know,
27:08
Speaker 1: as we've seen in all the live you know what
27:10
Speaker 1: I say, you can't ever overdo it. You have one
27:14
Speaker 1: swing at the ball, one bite of the apple, get
27:16
Speaker 1: the confession, and seek the death penalty. There's no death.
27:20
Speaker 1: I don't believe it is a death penalty state answer.
27:22
Speaker 1: When we talk about violent crime, it's almost as if
27:25
Speaker 1: we're drinking from a fire hydrant. It's just too much,
27:28
Speaker 1: too fast, too furious. If you have heard about the
27:32
Speaker 1: murder of Jessica Chambers, don't miss the new docuseries on Oxygen,
27:37
Speaker 1: The true story of a teen girl cheerleader Mississippi, Burned Alive,
27:42
Speaker 1: The story of the man now accused of the heinous crime.
27:47
Speaker 1: Is the right guy on trial? Who is he? And
27:50
Speaker 1: who was Jessica Chambers? How does such a horrific crime
27:54
Speaker 1: even occur? More questions than answers. It's a case that
27:58
Speaker 1: has captured national headlines, taken over social media, and has
28:02
Speaker 1: now left and is leaving a small town divided. It's
28:07
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28:26
Speaker 1: the new network for Crime. The Queen will have some
28:30
Speaker 1: words tomorrow. I'm not talking about the Queen of England.
28:34
Speaker 1: Those are chilling words from an email sent to an
28:37
Speaker 1: ex boyfriend by his jilted lover his former girlfriend, who
28:43
Speaker 1: we now believe ordered a fake pregnancy tummy from Amazon,
28:49
Speaker 1: and a sustained and ongoing stalking campaign against her boyfriend,
28:56
Speaker 1: including at his place of work. I Nancy Grace, this
29:01
Speaker 1: is Crime Stories, Thank you for being with us. Can
29:04
Speaker 1: you imagine having your girlfriend or boyfriend calling your place
29:10
Speaker 1: of business and trashing you being all crazy? Chuck Roberts,
29:14
Speaker 1: Crime online dot Com investigative reporter, Let's just start at
29:19
Speaker 1: the beginning. Who is Jessica Nordquist? Jessica Nordquist, twenty five
29:24
Speaker 1: years old from small town America, lands a great job
29:27
Speaker 1: at an ad agency in London and immediately hooks up
29:31
Speaker 1: with Mark Weeks, who lives in London himself. Uh, and
29:35
Speaker 1: they started Wait a minute, Wait a minute, Chuck. When
29:38
Speaker 1: you say hook up, do you mean dating? Do you
29:41
Speaker 1: mean their friends or do you just mean they're having sleepovers?
29:46
Speaker 1: Former lover I would say they were pretty hot and heavy.
29:50
Speaker 1: She arrived in July. Uh, they start dating the next
29:54
Speaker 1: month and they break up, um in November, and that's
29:58
Speaker 1: when the stocking campaign a against her ex boyfriend began.
30:01
Speaker 1: When you say stalking campaign, what do you mean by that?
30:03
Speaker 1: She insisted that he raped her. She went online and
30:08
Speaker 1: said that she actually went to the hospital to purportedly
30:12
Speaker 1: have an abortion of his baby, and he went with her.
30:15
Speaker 1: I don't know how that came out, but she claimed
30:18
Speaker 1: that she was eight weeks pregnant. Uh. She also apparently
30:22
Speaker 1: told people she was about to take an overdose. She
30:25
Speaker 1: was actually found to be home and fine, and uh.
30:28
Speaker 1: She sends him threatening emails, referring to herself as the
30:32
Speaker 1: queen and the game of chess, and you just stop
30:36
Speaker 1: right there, Chuck Roberts So pretends to be pregnant, complete
30:39
Speaker 1: with a fake pregnancy belly from Amazon, then calling and
30:44
Speaker 1: threatening him at work, claiming she had to go to
30:47
Speaker 1: the hospital to have an abortion, even taking him with her,
30:51
Speaker 1: threatening an overdose when she was at home and fine.
30:54
Speaker 1: When people checked in on her, I got to go
30:57
Speaker 1: to a shrink because this is making my teeth. Her
30:59
Speaker 1: joining me of l A. Dr Bethany Marshall, Bethany, he
31:04
Speaker 1: helped me out here, nutjob extraordinary, referring to herself as
31:09
Speaker 1: the queen in a game of chess. Seriously, well, not
31:13
Speaker 1: only was she stalking him, but she wanted to have
31:16
Speaker 1: ultimate power over him. I mean she really wanted to
31:21
Speaker 1: make sure. I don't get that, Bethany, Why I want
31:24
Speaker 1: control and dominion. I want him to have his own life. Well,
31:27
Speaker 1: that's because you're a rational person that has a life
31:29
Speaker 1: and wants him to go do his things. This lady's
31:31
Speaker 1: Craig Cray. And here's my question. Number one, why do
31:34
Speaker 1: men like girls who are Craig crazy? Because some of
31:36
Speaker 1: them do. Number two? Do you remember the show Glee
31:39
Speaker 1: that was on TV and the I'm Nember sorry I
31:43
Speaker 1: was working those teen years. My kids and I love
31:48
Speaker 1: that show. So we were watching Glee and the wife
31:50
Speaker 1: of the Glee teacher actually did exactly this and ordered
31:53
Speaker 1: a fake pregnant tummy. And guess what in that show,
31:56
Speaker 1: she was crazy too. What is it true, Dr Bethany?
31:59
Speaker 1: Do in like crazy women? They liked them at first
32:06
Speaker 1: because the craziness feels exciting, stimulating, like the world's like
32:10
Speaker 1: a fun place. But then what happens is when the
32:14
Speaker 1: woman starts stalking them. That's when they run to my
32:17
Speaker 1: therapy office and they start complaining. And you know, trapping
32:20
Speaker 1: a man through pregnancy as a very common ploy for
32:25
Speaker 1: women who have borderline personality disorder or not even just
32:30
Speaker 1: through getting pregnant, but through pseudoscisis, which is a false pregnancy.
32:34
Speaker 1: I've seen that in my office before. I have never
32:37
Speaker 1: ever heard of somebody ordering an actual baby bump like
32:41
Speaker 1: as the reporter said, who knows what happened when she
32:43
Speaker 1: went to the to the hospital. I mean she puts
32:46
Speaker 1: her foot in the stirrups, the guy goes to examine
32:49
Speaker 1: her and whoops, there's a piece of foam up there.
32:51
Speaker 1: I mean, this is obviously not a very thought out ploy. Now,
32:56
Speaker 1: she allegedly pasted a series of messages online, one accusing
33:01
Speaker 1: him of rape. Uh. The state also claims she ordered
33:05
Speaker 1: this fake baby bump from Amazon. That's pretty easy to trace.
33:11
Speaker 1: Another issue is that she would follow him around the
33:13
Speaker 1: office before the breakup, leaving him notes on his desk
33:17
Speaker 1: on his bicycle. We also are learning that she tells
33:23
Speaker 1: police that both she and the victim had been the
33:27
Speaker 1: victims of another stalker. I mean, it's lie on top
33:31
Speaker 1: of lie on top of lie, Kenya Johnson. The easy
33:34
Speaker 1: part for the prosecutors that a lot of these allegations
33:37
Speaker 1: stem from emails and texts and notes. That's fairly easy
33:42
Speaker 1: to introduce into court if you lay the right foundation. Absolutely,
33:45
Speaker 1: the courts have caught up with technology and you're able
33:49
Speaker 1: to lay the foundation to prove reliability of the origin
33:53
Speaker 1: of those communications. And so once they're able to do that,
33:56
Speaker 1: that can come into court. Well, correct me if I'm wrong,
33:59
Speaker 1: Chuck Robert. But it seems like they break up and
34:02
Speaker 1: then she asked if they could rekindle their romance. He
34:07
Speaker 1: rejected her, and then she sends him on Instagram saying, quote,
34:12
Speaker 1: I'm telling people at work ahead an abortion and if
34:14
Speaker 1: they ask with who elsa you? Is this true? It's
34:18
Speaker 1: absolutely true? And it comes out because in January she
34:22
Speaker 1: was arrested and her phone and iPad were seized and
34:24
Speaker 1: all that came out. And also she allegedly began sending
34:28
Speaker 1: messages to herself and the ex boyfriend to make it
34:32
Speaker 1: look as though they were coming from a third party.
34:35
Speaker 1: One of them was setting up a meeting on January.
34:38
Speaker 1: You're going to meet me at Shoreditch Grind Cafe. If
34:42
Speaker 1: neither of you show, we're going to release your past
34:45
Speaker 1: secrets around the office, we will come for you. Okay.
34:49
Speaker 1: So now she's pretending that there is yet another stalker
34:54
Speaker 1: stalking them both. And guess what the penalty is for
34:57
Speaker 1: not showing up that the so called stalk her is
35:00
Speaker 1: going to release his the boyfriend's secrets at the office.
35:05
Speaker 1: And I'm looking at a photo Dr Bethany. She's all
35:08
Speaker 1: smiley looking with really kind of kind of cute he's
35:12
Speaker 1: got two black eyes in the photo. Wonder where they
35:15
Speaker 1: came from? Wonder where? Well, you know, you've heard me
35:18
Speaker 1: talk so much about the psychology of stalking, but it
35:21
Speaker 1: really applies here again that the psychology is that the
35:25
Speaker 1: perpetrator feels that there's a unique and special relationship with
35:29
Speaker 1: the victim, even when there's evidence to the contrary, or
35:32
Speaker 1: there's no evidence to support the fact that there's a
35:35
Speaker 1: unique and special relationship, And so the perpetrator goes after
35:40
Speaker 1: the victim to punish the victim for perceived rejection. And
35:44
Speaker 1: I can see that written all over this case, that
35:46
Speaker 1: she imagines that they're an item, that they're still together.
35:50
Speaker 1: She's obsessed with him, and every time he doesn't return
35:53
Speaker 1: a phone call or a text, or doesn't like something
35:56
Speaker 1: on Instagram, and then she wants to punish him for
35:58
Speaker 1: the rejection, and the the punishment keeps escalating and escalating
36:02
Speaker 1: till it rises to the level of criminality. Well, what
36:05
Speaker 1: we have learned Ashley Willcott is allegedly police found searches
36:09
Speaker 1: for quote fake babies on her account and a Silicon
36:14
Speaker 1: baby bump was ordered from Amazon. She had also researched
36:18
Speaker 1: whether people contract where emails are sent from Okay, and
36:23
Speaker 1: then she goes on to send the boyfriend raunchy text
36:27
Speaker 1: messages about her love life, claiming she hooked up with
36:30
Speaker 1: some guy that she met in Soho. So I guess
36:34
Speaker 1: that's to try to make him jealous Ashley. That's what
36:36
Speaker 1: I would think, right Nancy, And so I think she's
36:38
Speaker 1: engaging in behavior that she thinks can get him to
36:41
Speaker 1: come back. In her mind. I don't think she thinks
36:44
Speaker 1: it's talking. She thinks if I do all these things,
36:46
Speaker 1: I can manipulate his behavior so that he comes back
36:49
Speaker 1: to me and he's jealous and he wants to be
36:51
Speaker 1: with me. I think. So the point that was made
36:54
Speaker 1: is that that rises to the level of a crime,
36:57
Speaker 1: and she's cross the line. What does it mean? Do
37:00
Speaker 1: daughter Beth? And I think she keeps referring to herself
37:02
Speaker 1: as the queen, as in a chess game, like if
37:06
Speaker 1: you can't protect the queen, she's the most valuable piece
37:08
Speaker 1: on the board. She protects your king, blah blah blah. Well,
37:12
Speaker 1: it tells me two things. One is that she has
37:15
Speaker 1: a very idealized view of herself. Um that she imagines
37:18
Speaker 1: herself to be the queen, and who has the ultimate
37:21
Speaker 1: power of the queen. Everybody does her bidding. So she's
37:24
Speaker 1: trying to have power over her victim and if if
37:29
Speaker 1: he doesn't do her bidding, heads will roll. And so
37:33
Speaker 1: this is the punishment aspect, and this is the two
37:35
Speaker 1: black eyes that you see that if the queen doesn't
37:38
Speaker 1: get her way, that there's going to be punishment that
37:40
Speaker 1: will be doled out. Okay, guys, we wait for justice
37:43
Speaker 1: to unfold. I mean, what a nut job. But don't
37:47
Speaker 1: get me wrong, this woman is not legally insane. Poor guy.
37:54
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace signing off goodbye, Friend one.