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Hollywood's Top Publicist Reveals What It Really Takes to Make Stars | Shannon Barr · NAACP+ Inside The Industry

• 0:00
  Speaker A: It is so important to have a publicist when you have the right project. PR is not a 50 yard dash, it's a marathon. You have to hydrate, you have to concentrate, pace yourself. I cannot change your life in four months. But if you keep bringing me a project better than the last, I will help you get where you need to be and I will make you a star.
• 0:23
  Speaker B: What does it take to shape the public image of some of the world's biggest stars? On today's episode of NACP Inside the Industry, we're diving into the fast paced world of publicity. Who better to unpack the world of PR than trailblazing publicist Shannon Barr, who's represented an impressive client roster of actors, directors and recording artists, including Jeffrey Wright, Nicolas Cage, Nia Long, and many more. Today we'll explore her journey, examine how publicists manage media strategies and navigate high pressure moments to create cultural conversations. I'm your host, Ariana Drummond. Welcome to NACP Inside the Industry.
• 1:03
  Speaker A: Industry.
• 1:11
  Speaker B: Miss Shannon Barr. Thank you so much for joining us today for NAACP Inside the Industry. How are you feeling today?
• 1:17
  Speaker A: Feeling great. Thank you for having me. I'm very honored that you asked me to do this.
• 1:21
  Speaker B: Always, always. So I feel like every time we talk, I learn something new about you. And I know that your resume spans for more than two decades. It's in entertainment publicity. For someone just meeting you for the first time. Give us a quick origin. And then how does a girl end up being one of the most powerful publicists in Hollywood?
• 1:40
  Speaker A: Ooh, I love that title. Well, when I was eight, I knew that I wanted to make stars. I did not know what that meant or how to do it, but I watched a lot of old black and white MGM movies about studio heads and publicists and things like that. And I just knew I wanted to make stars. I would watch television and. And if somebody didn't make it big, like my sister and I would be like, somebody drop the ball on them. I don't know if we got that phrase drop the ball, but we knew, like, you know, how come Jake Ryan from like Sixteen Candles isn't like a huge star like Tom Cruise? Like, we dropped the ball on him, right? So I knew I wanted to do that. My parents are from the South. My dad was Navy. When I went to college, I went to Long Beach State and studied communications. I was working at a Irish tavern, putting myself through school. I graduated and I was making so much money, having so much fun, I wasn't really thinking about anything. And a friend of mine, who I don't even speak to anymore. I don't know what happened to. Her name was Caprice and she was. She worked at the bar with me. She put my resume together and got me my first internship. Yeah.
• 2:56
  Speaker B: Shout out to Caprice.
• 2:57
  Speaker A: Caprice, I know. I hope you're doing amazing. She was in like the advertising, fashion world and she. I met this lady, Gloria Hanahosa, who is a lovely woman. She's an agent right now. She owns. She's a partner at one of the mid level agencies in town. She's a wonderful woman. She had a little agency within an agency. And I'm just going to give my age because right now, because I'm not going to say my age, but basically the bigger agency's biggest client was Kato Kalin. So now you kind of know like where my age falls. And Gloria was just amazing. Taught me so much. I worked, I did. It was a free internship. I brought in two friends that also wanted to do internships and I stayed a year and a half and she had to kick me out. I didn't want to leave her. And she, she said, little bird, you must fly. And from there she took me to my first movie set. Her client, Danny Trejo was doing a big movie about a bar and some vampires or something. George Clooney was in. It was Salma Hayek's first movie that made Salma Hayek a star. And I was on that set and I was like, this is just the best world in the whole world. The best thing in the whole world. I have to figure out how to do this. And so I thought I had wanted to be an agent and skipping ahead, dealing with different jobs in the industry, lots of racism encountered. I was complaining about one of these horrible people that I was working for at a talent commercial agency. And I was at the bar Marmont and this girl was sitting next to me and I didn't think I was talking loud. And she said, are you talking about so and so? And I was like, who are you? Right? And I was like. And she goes, that job was mine before I left.
• 4:55
  Speaker B: Wow.
• 4:56
  Speaker A: And she's like. And I know exactly, like, how bad it was. She's like, this is your lucky day. She's like, I work at ICM and I work for one of the biggest hotshot new agents in the talent department. And I'm leaving and you're going to take my place. And she goes, give me your. Your name and number and I'll talk to HR on Monday. Oh. And then it took about two or three weeks and I Got the call. Yes. And she walked me into his office and said, this is your new assistant. Because, like, she. I was like, she. I go, how did I get this stuff? She's like, I just know you can handle him. I go, what does that mean? So then, you know, I end up on this. This desk of this, you know, young agent who, you know. You couldn't get up to go to the bathroom.
• 5:40
  Speaker B: Are you serious?
• 5:41
  Speaker A: No. You couldn't go pee.
• 5:42
  Speaker B: Oh, my gosh.
• 5:43
  Speaker A: If you were not in your desk when he called at your desk when he called, it was just like. It was the movie Swimming with Sharks. And ICM at the time was. It would go back and forth from being number one between them and caa. And so there was a lot of, like, mistreatment of all the assistants. But my particular boss was, like, the worst. And I laugh when I think about it, because I love his clients. I loved his clients so much. But everybody knew that I was being, like, you know, mentally abused and verbally abused every day. And to the point where, like, some of the bigger agents, like, called down to HR themselves and said, this girl's got a lawsuit.
• 6:25
  Speaker B: Oh, my God.
• 6:26
  Speaker A: And one day. It's a very funny story. One day he was yelling at me. He had left for. To go to something, right? And I waited till like 7 o'. Clock. And he didn't call, so I left, right? Because, you know, you have to roll calls with your. With your boss when you're in the car. And so the next morning, I left at 7. And so technically I was allowed.
• 6:53
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 6:53
  Speaker A: So the next morning he called and I just got cursed out. And he said, where were you when I called last night? I said, I waited till seven. And then. And he was like. He goes, it was not seven, it was 6:59. He goes, you were to sit at your desk.
• 7:09
  Speaker B: Are you serious?
• 7:10
  Speaker A: He goes, you were to be at that desk until 7:00'. Clock? Not 6:59, not 6:59. In 30 seconds, not 6:58. And he was yelling at me. And in my mind I said, excuse my language. Oh, my God. Off. I quit. And I said it out loud. And I thought I said it in my mind.
• 7:29
  Speaker B: Oh, my God.
• 7:30
  Speaker A: But I said it out loud. And I was like, I'm so sick of you. You. I quit. And I was like. And all the assistants in the cubicle were like, oh, my God.
• 7:38
  Speaker B: Oh my gosh.
• 7:40
  Speaker A: And he goes, what? What did you say? And I said. I said, you. I quit. Right? And so. And he was like, no, no, no, no, no, no, No. I said, no, no, no. You're getting what you want. You hate the work I do. I'm out of here. I was a really good assistant.
• 7:54
  Speaker B: How long were you there for?
• 7:55
  Speaker A: I was working for him for. I think it was, like, going, like, two years. And I was a really good assistant. I mean, back then, you know, you had to read scripts. You had to do coverage on scripts. We had messenger services. There was really no computer. Computer system, like, you know, that we have VHS tapes, you know, and so it was all around the office, the third floor, that, oh, my gosh, Shannon, like, yelled at him and, like, cursed and, like, she quit. And then HR called me down, and I said, you know, she's like, if you could just. He says he's sorry. You know. I said, no. I said, this is like. He's always yelling at me. He curses me out all the time. And I said, I don't want to do this anymore. And she's like, well, we need to find him a suitable replacement.
• 8:45
  Speaker B: That's not my problem.
• 8:46
  Speaker A: Yeah, Eddie. She's like, and I know you don't have a job. She's like, I will give you this much more money if you will go and sit on his desk and help find him a new assistant. And during that time, he will not yell at you. He will not do this, he will not do that. And you can leave every day at seven. And. And that's it. And I said, okay, so take that money. So I decided, like, I'll take the money, and I will figure out how to, you know, find another job. And then he did not trust me to pick out a good assistant for him. And so when we were doing, like, the interviews and stuff, and I would say, okay, this is, you know, so and so. And I'd say, they don't hire that girl, you know. I go, I know you think she's going to be good, but she's like a little mouse, and she's not going to be able to handle it. And then he's like, well, like, I would take advice from you. And I said, okay, well, bump it, then. Figure it out yourself. Okay? She was right. And then this one guy, he's an agent, he came over to my desk, and he's like, hey. He goes, I heard that you quit and that you don't have another job. And I said, so what is it to you? Who are you? Right? And then. And he's like, I'm Joe. He goes, come work for me. And I go, I don't want to work here anymore. You know, and he goes, no. He goes, I'm not like this guy. He goes, I promise you. He goes, I'm so nice. He goes, I'll sign your overtime every week. I'll give you 10 hours of overtime every week. He goes, you can leave at 6. He goes, I'm more senior than him, so I will get you a raise. And he's like, I heard you're fantastic. He's like, come over here. So I was like, if you yell at me even once. And he goes, I won't. And he. To this day, I still talk to this man.
• 10:25
  Speaker B: Oh, I love that.
• 10:25
  Speaker A: We just had lunch a few weeks ago. He's retired, he's in his 80s. And he is just like, I love him so much. He's like a second dad to me. I love that. And so I went from a horrible experience to one of the best experiences of my life. But even he was like, you don't want to be an agent here. But I knew that, you know, working at something as prestigious as ICM in their talent department, you talk to everybody.
• 10:52
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 10:53
  Speaker A: You know, you talk to every major casting director, every major publicist, you know, every major casting director, every studio head, you know. And so I decided that I got into the agent training program. Cause Joe said I should go into it. So then when I left, I could leave at a higher position. And then I ended up eventually at bwr, which doesn't exist anymore. And it was interesting because I was trying to find a job. I wanted a job at a studio. And I had braids in my hair before. Like, braids were, like, cool, right? And I used to wear my hair in micro mini braids. And I could not find a job. And I was. My sister was selling clothes on ebay, and I was, like, packing up FedEx boxes in her garage. And she was paying me under the table. And my mom said, take your braids out for your next interview. And I go, what? I'm like, that's like a 24 hour, you know, ordeal, you know? And she's like, take your braids out for your next interview and just, you know, wear your hair down or whatever. I got the job.
• 11:54
  Speaker B: Wow, that is so sad.
• 11:56
  Speaker A: Yep. Yep.
• 11:57
  Speaker B: That is incredibly sad.
• 11:59
  Speaker A: Yep. Because I was way overqualified for most of the jobs I was going for.
• 12:03
  Speaker B: That's it.
• 12:03
  Speaker A: Then ending up at bwr, I was working in corporate entertainment, so television shows. I wanted to do talent, but the talent department was small. And it's kind of like this sorority thing where, like, one of the girls was that was one of the big ones in the talent department was in a sorority. So every time an opening came up, one of her sorority sisters got, like, the position and talent. And so working in corporate, it was not fulfilling because you would do. You would get people all this great press and then pass it on to their personal publicist who would then take credit for it.
• 12:39
  Speaker B: Yes. Yep.
• 12:39
  Speaker A: And so then that still happens, right? That still happens.
• 12:43
  Speaker B: Do that.
• 12:43
  Speaker A: Like, I like doing, like, working in that environment. I was like, I give people credit where. Yeah. And so it still happens. Like, most of the big ones do that. Right. And. Sorry. And so, so eventually they were bought out and acquired, and they laid off all the junior publicists. And so I ended up working for this guy who had a boutique agency. It was just him. I researched the wrong agency that he had bigger clients. And when I got there, he asked me to start his talent department. And I said, what do you want me to do? And he's like, start a talent department. I go, I wouldn't know how to do that. I've only worked at, like, ICM and bwr, and people just throw clients to them. Yeah. And then he was like, do you have a Rolodex? This is dating me too. And I said, yes, I have three gigantic Rolodexes. I loved Rolodexes. And he goes, then you can. Then you can do this. And within that first year, I had 20 clients on network television. Look at you.
• 13:48
  Speaker B: Oh, I love that. That's incredible. I mean, I know you talked a little bit earlier just about, like, just having to be able to change your appearance and everything like that. Like, what are some of the barriers that you still. That you think still exist today that black professionals still have to deal with within publicity?
• 14:03
  Speaker A: You know, I feel like I had this one manager, and I don't want to say who this black publicist was. And she had a very big client. She actually. I actually had the girl as a little girl, and she said, I don't know what happened. It was just one of those things where she was, like, kind of young, and I was like, I'll put her on my roster. And then she must have got something and then ended up at, like, more of a kid's PR company. And so this girl, you know, she. She blew up, and her publicist was this young black girl and basically charging her nothing, you know, and she's not knowing how to handle your Vogues and your vanity Fairs and things like that. The white manager actually called me and said, could you take her to lunch? And maybe have a discussion with her. And I was like, what? And she said, yeah. She goes, we would like her to be more like you.
• 14:56
  Speaker B: Wow.
• 14:57
  Speaker A: And I was like, well, then why don't you just hire me?
• 14:58
  Speaker B: Exactly.
• 14:59
  Speaker A: Right. And then they're like, well, she's been with them for so long. If you could just kind of try to just subtly, like, say, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Right.
• 15:09
  Speaker B: So I was like, did you know the girl personally?
• 15:11
  Speaker A: No. No. But then I was like, you know what? Let me meet this girl, because if she is a mess, I would like to help her. Yeah, right. You pay it forward. Yeah. And so I didn't think she was a mess at all.
• 15:22
  Speaker B: That's sad.
• 15:23
  Speaker A: You know, I thought she dressed young, but she was young. She was articulate. She. Her hair was nice. I really don't know, like, what they were. I don't know. It was irking them, you know, maybe because she didn't have Christian Louboutin shoes and didn't have, like, you know, but she couldn't afford that yet.
• 15:44
  Speaker B: Yeah, exactly.
• 15:45
  Speaker A: You know, and she's young. Yeah. And so I had a nice conversation with her. I thought she was great, you know, and she's doing very well for herself to this day. Look at that.
• 15:53
  Speaker B: Look at that.
• 15:53
  Speaker A: She lost that client eventually, but, you know, it was just inevitable she was going to lose that client. Yeah. So they.
• 16:00
  Speaker B: They didn't appreciate her value. That's fine. So looking back, what do you think has helped you build lasting success in this industry?
• 16:07
  Speaker A: I think the one thing you can say about me is I don't take people's money. I only represent people that I'm passionate about. Yeah. Now, I can't make someone be as passionate about you as I am, but I will only take you on if I feel I can produce for you.
• 16:23
  Speaker B: I love that.
• 16:24
  Speaker A: And so I don't take money. You know, sometimes if some. I had this poet, and he's just amazing, and we got some nice things, but, you know, with a poet, it takes time. Yeah.
• 16:40
  Speaker B: It's not an overnight success.
• 16:41
  Speaker A: Yeah. You have to be like, hey, give me a year. Give me a year to build you. You had put out this beautiful book and your publisher, you didn't come to me until after your book run was almost over. And then the PR at the publishing house was jealous. I wasn't allowed to even talk about the book. And that's what we were promoting. And so it was just some really something stupid. But he. So we got a couple of nice hits, but he. A lot of people don't budget properly for pr.
• 17:10
  Speaker B: Yep.
• 17:11
  Speaker A: And after the third month, I let him out of the contract because I was just like, listen, it's not. I can't promote the book. I wish you'd come on to me when the book was coming out. But, you know, it is what it is, you know, So I let him out because I didn't want him to think, like, I'm just taking his money now. When I worked at Rogers and Cowan, you would not do that. I mean, I remember saying to. I'm working on this client that I did not sign, and this publicist and I were like, listen. And this guy is like, big star.
• 17:45
  Speaker B: Like, when he's being married then or
• 17:47
  Speaker A: now, I would say then really big. Now. Name value. Got it right. Married to a big. Was married to a big English star.
• 17:56
  Speaker B: Got it.
• 17:57
  Speaker A: And we were just like, listen, nobody cares about this project he's in. Like, we can't.
• 18:03
  Speaker B: I can't do anything.
• 18:03
  Speaker A: Yeah. You know, we don't even have pictures. You know, I was like, we needed to get pictures of him. And the. The girl that signed him, she's like, you don't ask people of that caliber to take pictures. And I'm like, why then?
• 18:14
  Speaker B: How am I supposed to do my job?
• 18:15
  Speaker A: How am I supposed to do my job if I don't have pictures? And I'm like, we could just send a photographer to his house. It'll take, like an hour. And I wasn't allowed to say that. And it was like a part five of some sort of horror franchise, right? And it's like, it's really hard to get pressed for horror. And nobody cared. And we were like, can we just, like, let him out of his contract? And she said, no. And we were, like, astonished. And we were like, what? And she's like, he signed a contract for six months. He's gonna pay us. Our job is to pitch press. Our job press is not guaranteed. And no, he cannot come out of his contract. And I was like, you know what? She's right. But, you know, I guess, you know, working in a major corporate environment like that, I was not used to that. And so for me, it's like, well, it's not working. I know that we're working hard, but it's not working. And so why don't we just let them out so you can save the money? And she was like, absolutely not.
• 19:15
  Speaker B: Yeah. And they still. To your point, they still. I mean, of course. That it operates. I just would feel so bad. I'm like, I'm Literally trying. And I'm not saying that you shouldn't be compensated for your work, but also it's just like, okay, clearly this isn't working. Let's, let's do something. So I get that. And I want to take a moment to dive into the importance and the power of publicity. I think people always talk about managers and agents, but publicists, I feel like they don't really, or the world doesn't fully understand the power that we hold in people's careers, the gatekeepers. Okay, okay. No, really, so break it down for us. How important is it to have a publicist? And then what are the common misconceptions about what we do?
• 19:56
  Speaker A: It is so important to have a publicist when you have the right project.
• 20:02
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 20:03
  Speaker A: So it's not a guest star on a network television show. If you're going to recur on a show, it's, you know, if it's eight episodes, it's like six out of eight. You know, if it's a 10 episode show, then it's like eight out of 10. Because that's a series regular. That's just. They call it recurring now because it's a way for the studio not to pay the actors what they're worth. Exactly. So that is when you should be like, okay, I need a publicist. Obviously, if you're leading a show, leading a good movie, not an indie with a bunch of D list stars that used to be stars that nobody knows the director. If you're in a festival film that's going to Cannes or Telluride or Toronto, not the Bakersfield Film Festival or what have you, those, whatever. So you just have to know when you've got something that a publicist can work with. And you have to know that publicists cost money.
• 21:05
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 21:05
  Speaker A: Don't waste our time if you can't pay. Respectfully. Yeah, respectfully. Respect. Respectfully. You know, we, after the strike, the big dogs, your leads, your IDs, they raised their prices 8 to 10,000, which allowed us boutiques to raise our prices. Like, you know, I'm 6,500, you know, will I give a deal to an emerging talent? Yes. Is it going to be a huge deal? You're still going to be in the fives. Right. So know that. Know that the contracts are at least four months. Know that we can't change your life in four months. And I always tell everybody, PR is not a 50 yard dash. It is a cross country run.
• 21:51
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 21:51
  Speaker A: It's a marathon. You have to hydrate, you have to concentrate, you have to pace yourself. I cannot change your life in four months. But if you keep bringing me a project better than the last, I will help you get where you need to be, and I will make you a star.
• 22:09
  Speaker B: Let me ask you something, because I feel like I have conversations with publicists, and I feel like the people that are charging less are kind of, I don't want to say saturating the market, but they're making it more difficult for people that actually do the work. Have you found that?
• 22:24
  Speaker A: Oh, I just got lowballed by this one publicist the other day. I met this girl that I was just very excited about, and I wanted to make her like a fashion girl and beautiful black girl, and we just clicked. And her manager took too long to close the deal, and I was giving her a really good rate because she's new, and I was just very passionate. And like, I already see what I'm gonna do with you. I'm going to blow your mind. Right. And so normally when the rate falls below 5, then it goes to one of the other publicists at my company because they're younger and they're building their roster. The roster. But this particular girl, I'm like, I'm doing her. And it was just taking forever. And finally I found out that another publicist, like, not just low balled me toothed thousand.
• 23:24
  Speaker B: You will bib. Are you serious?
• 23:26
  Speaker A: Yes.
• 23:27
  Speaker B: Oh, baby, no, baby, no, baby, no.
• 23:29
  Speaker A: I was like, are you kidding me that another publicist would do that? I mean, I know it's. Times are hard, hard, but when you do that, you ruin it for all of us.
• 23:37
  Speaker B: Exactly.
• 23:37
  Speaker A: You know, if the boutiques can at least be united and say, these are our prices. Yes, yes. Across the board, then we wouldn't be cheated.
• 23:48
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 23:49
  Speaker A: Or we wouldn't. Agents and managers wouldn't expect us to drop so low. But we have to be, like, coordinated and say just like the big ones are. This is what we charge. And we have to see. This is what we charge. We are charging 6,500. We're all charged between 6 to 6,500 now. Right. And nobody budges. And it will fall in line. But they don't do that.
• 24:10
  Speaker B: Nope. And really quick, because I know you've probably experienced an array of crazy things that have happened. So when you see a celebrity going through something publicly, the backlash, the headlines, all of it, what is actually happening behind the scenes that people don't know about?
• 24:28
  Speaker A: Well, the publicist is pulling her hair out. Oh, my goodness. No offense to Will Smith. I have to say, this when he slapped Chris Rock, I think everybody texted his publicist, we're so sorry. We're so sorry. You know, we're not gonna be able to work. We were all texting her and just saying, like, you got this. You know, and she does. She's one of the best publicists in the world. But, you know, but it was just so funny because everyone was texting her. Yeah. You know, I'm in a group chat with her with some of, you know, owners of PR firms, and we were all just like, we're here for you.
• 25:12
  Speaker B: It's nice to have that good support system, though.
• 25:13
  Speaker A: Yeah. Every since the strike. Well, ever since we, the publicist took down the Golden Globes, everyone's so much nicer to each other.
• 25:20
  Speaker B: Good, good.
• 25:21
  Speaker A: And so. But yeah, what was the question again?
• 25:28
  Speaker B: I guess what happens when, when, when something like that happens? It's like, what is she dealing with behind the scenes that she needs to make sure a statement of?
• 25:36
  Speaker A: Well, you're getting the whole team together. You're not. It's not just you. You're getting the lawyer together. You're getting the head of the agency, his. His agent plus the head of the agency, his manager, plus the head of that agency, if needed. Y. We're collectively talking about what type of statement we should. You should put out. I don't believe that you should always be silent. I think sometimes being silent is a bad choice.
• 25:59
  Speaker B: I agree.
• 26:00
  Speaker A: There are certain people that have to. Have to spin their narrative. And there are certain people that if you're quiet, it will go away, but it just also depends on, like, what, you know, was happening. So, you know, we're doing that and then we're writing several versions of statements and then figuring out, okay, who we're dropping this to. You know, who are we giving this to that we know we can trust. Yeah. That if it's going to take more than one statement, we can feed to. I mean, I feed a lot of stuff to a lot of people, but, you know, it's. It's a lot, you know, and it usually happens around 3 o' clock in the morning when you get the call. You know, one of the. My friend Charles at tmz, we have a. We always laugh because if he calls me, I go, who's dead or who's in jail? Okay. And if I call him, he goes, which one of your clients is dead or in jail?
• 26:53
  Speaker B: So I know you use example about Will Smith, but like, what is. Why do you think some people survive the moment and then some people don't? Like, what is it that. That it takes for somebody to, like, hey, we survived this scandal and we're fine, versus somebody who just gets canceled and nobody wants to deal with them again?
• 27:10
  Speaker A: I think it just depends on how that talent deals with it. Right. So sometimes they go rogue and they'll put something stupid on their Instagram or do something dumb, and it hurts them sometimes. You know, sometimes the team thought process altogether is wrong. You know, I usually get outvoted when I say, this is what we should do. And I'm like, isn't that why you hired me? But we laugh because I'm like, I don't know why you hired me, but I'm going to take my advice, you know? But, yeah, so, I mean, sometimes you have to be quiet. Sometimes you have to control your narrative. Yeah. I personally don't think that using Will again as an example, I don't think he's come back. I think it hurt his career in.
• 28:03
  Speaker B: You know, I mean, he's still getting booked.
• 28:05
  Speaker A: He's getting booked. But, you know, it put a spotlight on his marriage, put a spotlight on his kids. All this stuff started coming out. It really damaged what that Persona was, which is too bad, because we need as many wonderful black Personas as we possibly can. Absolutely. And people need. People need people to look up to, especially young people. So. So that was just a little bit disappointing. But, you know, you know, who knows what he was going through. Yeah, that's true. You know, I. I had a client that somebody tried to take down during Me Too movement. I was like, he didn't hit on her. When they told me who the girl was, I was like, yeah, my client wanted to hit on her. And. And they're like, well, how can you say that? I said, because I know my client, and I know what he likes, and he's never hit on me. And I'm the kind of girl that he likes, and he's never hit on my assistants, and they're the kind of girls that he likes. I've seen his girlfriend. I said, what he was doing was just being your typical, wonderful older black man giving a black girl a compliment in their way. And we all know how older black men are. I find it, like, wonderful when they give me, like, the older black man, like, hey, girl. Yeah, baby, you looking good today. I think it's sweet. You know, I don't find that insulting. I don't find compliments insulting. And so what they tried to accuse my client of happened, like, in public at abff. I'm like, really? And then I looked on the girl's Instagram. I'm like, what? You said that? He said that was offensive to her. She posted it on her Instagram with a picture of him saying, I just got the best compliment from so. And so I said, so. I already screenshot that. So you run. Run the story. This goes everywhere. Exactly. And I killed it, okay? You know, and my client, he was hopping mad. He wanted to.
• 30:05
  Speaker B: Baby, I'm gonna be too God nasty.
• 30:07
  Speaker A: He wanted to sue everybody. And I was like, could you please calm down? I was like, calm down. Please do not do anything. Just please be quiet. Please, please. You got till tomorrow. I'm like, no, no. You got to give me a couple more days. He's like, now I'm getting them all. I'm like, no, no, it's okay. That is hilarious. Oh, my gosh.
• 30:26
  Speaker B: So just talking about. In the world of people getting canceled, we live in a world where people sometimes go from completely unknown to viral overnight and then canceled by Thursday. How has that changed the way you advise people?
• 30:41
  Speaker A: Well, I don't represent people like that. I like actors. Actors, Yes. I have, obviously, a couple of reality stars that I've represented. Kenya Moore has been a very long standing client of mine for years. She's like, for example, she's gonna kill me. I didn't want to meet with her when she reached out to me because I didn't watch reality, and she reached out to me. We've been together, God, almost like 20 years. And my mom said, you should meet her. And I said, why was she on the show? She was on Atlanta, but I had
• 31:21
  Speaker B: only heard the stories and all that.
• 31:23
  Speaker A: Stories and things. And I said, my mom goes, you should meet her because she's one of your idols. And Kenya hates it when I tell this story because she says it makes me sound like I'm so much older than you, Shannon. And she's like, when she won Miss usa, we were jumping around. We were so happy for her. We watched it as a family, you know, and she's like, that's why you should meet her. Because, like, you've always thought that she was beautiful. She was somebody you looked up to. You know her. Beverly Johnson. Iman. Yep. The. You know, Vanessa Williams. Yeah. Like, they. They meant a lot to us growing up. And so I met her, and I instantly fell in love with her. And we became, like, instant sisters. And so. So, you know, when people go like, oh, you're up, Kenya. I'm like, I love Kenya. You know, she's like the nicest person. She's not. Everyone needs a villain. Yes. I said Kenya is not that. Yeah, she's great. And then she's a lovely mother. She's a wonderful mother.
• 32:16
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 32:17
  Speaker A: But for the most part, I do actors. Actors. I like the Jeffrey Wrights, the Nicholas Cages, you know, the people like that. I like the young emerging talent that if I'm looking at one of their real. And I see, like, oh, my God, like, that person just transformed themselves. Like, this is an actor. You know, that's what excites me.
• 32:36
  Speaker B: I love that.
• 32:36
  Speaker A: So I don't Dr. Dive into influencers. I hate when people call my actors influencers. And we're looking for an influencer. We're wondering if so and so much. She's not an influencer. She's an actress.
• 32:48
  Speaker B: Exactly.
• 32:49
  Speaker A: You know, get it. Right? Yeah. You know, not to say there's anything bad about being an influencer. I don't get it. So I don't. So I don't dabble in it, because I don't. I don't get it.
• 32:59
  Speaker B: You know, and just speaking of that, I mean, you've. You've seen the transition of a. Just more studios, I would say, inviting more influences out, opposed to the events and stuff. Yeah, yeah. So has that made your job easier, harder, like, or had any effect on it at all?
• 33:15
  Speaker A: Well, you know, any publicist of a certain caliber. We don't pitch premieres anyways.
• 33:22
  Speaker B: That's true.
• 33:22
  Speaker A: So we don't care. Right. If you're not in the movie, you don't need to be there. You know, it brings you no value. You're wasting money, getting ready to go on a carpet that nobody cares that you're on. Maybe you'll get a picture. But why are you doing interviews? You're not in the movie. So publicists stopped pitching premieres, like, a long time ago. I think that's why they probably started doing influencers, because you can't really get. Unless they're in the cast. You're not really getting a good group of people who want to go to these things anymore because publicists won't pitch them.
• 33:53
  Speaker B: That's true.
• 33:54
  Speaker A: Now, if it's something like a big premiere like Wakanda or something, or Michael Jackson. Or Michael Jackson. Right. Then that's when the black Hollywood comes out. They're like, how come I wasn't there? I'm like, I don't know. Why didn't you tell me? You know, I told you I don't pitch premiere. If you should have told me. But, you know, Michael Jackson Was huge.
• 34:12
  Speaker B: Everyone, we got to go and everybody. And they. Mama.
• 34:16
  Speaker A: And you couldn't even get into a screening.
• 34:18
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
• 34:19
  Speaker A: They're like, screenings are packed. Yep. You know, and so. So, yeah, if it's something like that, that's. It's a cultural phenomenon.
• 34:26
  Speaker B: Sure.
• 34:26
  Speaker A: But, you know, you gotta also gotta tell us. Yeah. Because I'm not.
• 34:29
  Speaker B: I can't read your mind, baby.
• 34:30
  Speaker A: Yeah. I can't read your mind. I'm not just pitching, you know, I'm trying to get you into a Vanity Fair party or like a, you know, Glamour or something. You know, I'm not really, you know, love for that you to be that W Magazine dinner. You know what I mean? So premieres are not on my radar.
• 34:44
  Speaker B: I love that. And rest in peace to John Singleton. And I know you represented him. I love him. And he was just somebody that you had a real relationship with. So losing him, I'm sure, was absolutely devastating. But, like, what did it mean to you? And what do you want people to remember him by?
• 35:00
  Speaker A: Well, first of all, that was probably the hardest thing I've ever had to do in my career because, number one, I got that call From Charles at 3 o' clock in the morning, and I didn't even know John was in the hospital. So then I'm calling his lawyer and I'm trying to figure out why wasn't I told? And then I was able to see him in the hospital and I was losing it and I had. I didn't know. First of all, I had never met his family. I didn't know there were so many baby mamas and. Oh, yeah. And all that because he just, you know, he wasn't that guy. He's just a class act. Yeah. You know, he liked to drive his boat in the marina on the weekends and write and, you know, and laugh and give you a, you know, fist bump. Yeah, yeah, Fist bump. And he liked to pay it forward to black people. Yeah. Yes, John was a true that. Black Hollywood. Yes. A lot of people tried to talk about, we have to stick together, we have to do this, we have to do that. And then they make it and they're like, oh, there's only room for you.
• 36:07
  Speaker B: No, he was.
• 36:08
  Speaker A: John was. He was not like that. He. I remember when Snowfall came out and how I met John really quick, if I could tell this.
• 36:17
  Speaker B: Yeah, of course. Of course.
• 36:17
  Speaker A: I was working for Lionsgate as their AA liaison. So back then, the African American liaison. So I was doing, like, all the Tyler Perry films. And so John had a film coming out with Taylor Lautner. And they asked me if I would do John's press. And I was like, sure. And so I, you know, I was like, it's John Singleton. So I was sending him to, like, Vanity Fair parties and, you know, he was going here, going there, and we're walking down carpets and everyone's talking to him and. And then, you know, he was just giving me, like, all this great press and. And he turned to me at the premiere. He goes, I have never had press like this in my entire life.
• 36:54
  Speaker B: That's sad.
• 36:55
  Speaker A: I go, what? And he goes, I've never been invited to all these parties like this and handled the way you handled me and all this press. He goes, people don't care about the director. And I go, you're John Singleton. You're iconic. I go, you're John Singleton. And he goes, next time I've got something. He goes, I'm happy.
• 37:13
  Speaker B: Yeah, immediately.
• 37:14
  Speaker A: Immediately he goes, you know, you got my number, right? I go, yeah. He goes, you check in with me yearly. So I checked in with him twice a year, like, for like four or five years. And then finally he said, yeah, I've got two things. I got this thing, Rebel and Bet. And I've got this thing, Snowfall. And I remember he's like, let's have dinner. So we went and had dinner and he goes, damson, Idris, Isaiah, John and Malcolm Mays are going to be the next three big things in Hollywood, in Black Hollywood and in Hollywood all together. And he took Damson. He's like, I want you to get me into everything. Great. He took Damson to everything. And literally, I watched him introduce this young man to everybody and say, this kid is the next big star. And then he would take Malcolm places and he would take Isaiah places, and I was just like, he gave back. He taught at ucla. Yeah, he did. And he always, always lifted me up with so many compliments and said how great I was and how honored he was that, you know, I was his publicist. And the hardest thing was to have to call Nellie Andreeva a deadline and say, you know, John is dying. I'm feeding everything to you. So just when I have updates, I will be feeding everything to you. Please don't announce that he's dying. You know, it's a really hard thing. So then when we knew we were going to have to take him off life support, and I was writing the statement and I was with his. I was on the phone with his manager and his oldest daughter, who's so lovely, and I remember, like, they're like, okay, you need to give this statement out at this time tomorrow. And I called my boyfriend, and I was sitting in a car at, like, Cafe Marmalade at El Segundo, and I was crying, and I was like, I can't do this. I cannot do this. I cannot send this. And I was losing it. Like, I was hysterical. And he's like, I need you to calm down. And he goes, I need you to understand that John chose you for this. He chose you for this, so make him proud and do what you have to do. He's like, now get yourself together and do what you have to do. And I said, okay, okay. So then I did it, and it was hard. I love that man. He was sorry you cried. No, I was. It was really hard. I don't ever want to go through that again, ever, you know.
• 39:58
  Speaker B: Oh, you got me crying. Sorry, Sorry. So nobody ever talks. To your point, everybody, no one ever talks about the emotional side of being a publicist. And you've really let us in on your world, and I appreciate that. Can you share how you balance the professional side of your career versus just, like, your humanity of it all?
• 40:20
  Speaker A: You know, I'm still not good at that because I am a boutique. And I think also because I'm a mama bear. Yeah. Black mama bear. Yeah. My clients are, to me, like my children. Yeah. I look at them as family. I give and give and give, you know, and, you know, we have to. We can't. You know, I remember being hired at Rogers and cowan, and the CEO going, our motto is, is 60, 40. I go, what does that mean? Yeah. And he goes, 60% to the client, 40% to ourselves. And I said, oh. And I looked at my skin, I said, oh, I'm Black woman. I'm 120% all the time.
• 40:59
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 41:01
  Speaker A: I can't go by that standard. And, you know, I love my clients, and if they need to be somewhere and they're not on, I'm going to get them there. If they should have a cover of something and they're not on, I'm going to get them that cover. Because keeping them relevant and keeping them out and about in the right rooms and things, that helps their career, which in turn helps all of our careers, from me to the agent to the manager. I like to think more strategically with clients. I look at it because I started at icm. I'm always looking at the client as, how can I help them get their next job? Going to parties is not going to help you get your next job, but going to the right party and being on the right list. So when producers and studio heads are looking to see who went to that Vogue party or who went to that SAG Emmy party, you know, or, you know, that dinner, if you're in that category, you're in a certain echelon.
• 42:01
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 42:02
  Speaker A: You know. Yeah. And so it's. It's. It's. It's a very. It's strategic. It's strategic. It's not just throw everything up against the wall and see what fix what hits. Because Sticks. Because every client is different. Every project is different. Every demographic of every project is different. And if you're not looking at all the factors, then you're just doing, like, a half big campaign. Yeah.
• 42:24
  Speaker B: And before we wrap, I know you've made history as just being an iconic publicist. What impact do you want your career to have when it's all said and done?
• 42:35
  Speaker A: Ooh, what impact. Oh, my gosh. I want to be remembered as somebody who you could always count on, that was there for you no matter what. Wasn't somebody that you had to be paying a fee to get help. I want to be remembered as somebody who had fun and made it fun for people and changed people's lives. I wanted to be a star maker, so I hope that I'm making stars, that I've helped make stars along the way, and I've been somebody that has been valuable to their career. That's what I want.
• 43:11
  Speaker B: I love that. That's beautifully said.
• 43:12
  Speaker A: Oh, well, thank you.
• 43:13
  Speaker B: We have one game. It's called inside your industry bag. You have a cup over there. Not really a bag, but if you want to grab one of those prompts.
• 43:20
  Speaker A: This.
• 43:20
  Speaker B: Yep.
• 43:20
  Speaker A: Just pull something out.
• 43:21
  Speaker B: Yep. Just pull something out. Maybe not the top one. Like. Yeah. And then just read it and answer.
• 43:28
  Speaker A: Okay. You're scared.
• 43:30
  Speaker B: We can pick another one if you don't like it.
• 43:31
  Speaker A: Okay.
• 43:33
  Speaker B: Nothing. It's nothing crazy.
• 43:39
  Speaker A: What's something you'll never do? No matter the opportunity, I would never act.
• 43:48
  Speaker B: Mm.
• 43:49
  Speaker A: Never.
• 43:50
  Speaker B: Not your calling.
• 43:51
  Speaker A: Not my calling. I would never act.
• 43:53
  Speaker B: Well, never. I will say never. Say never.
• 43:55
  Speaker A: Never say never.
• 43:55
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 43:56
  Speaker A: If I needed it to save someone in my family's life, sure. But, yeah, I would never act.
• 44:01
  Speaker B: I love that. But to your point, I never thought I would be doing this, and I'm doing it, so. You know, you were such a Jo. So refreshing and really at a. I had a great time with you. I hope you enjoyed today's episode. No matter where you are in your journey, we are here to be a resource if this conversation sparks something special for you, make sure to, like, subscribe and share and drop a comment letting us know what conversations you'd like to see next. I'm your host, Ariana Drummond. See you inside the industry.