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Why You Can't Say "MacBeth" in a Theater · Ridiculous History

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Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. Welcome
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Speaker 1: back to the show, Ridiculous Historians. Thank you as always
0:30
Speaker 1: so much fortuning in Let's give it up to the
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Speaker 1: one and only super producer, Mr Max Williams. First of
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Speaker 1: his name, and uh, look they called me Ben. No,
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Speaker 1: you and I are I would say we're big, big
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Speaker 1: fans of theatre and theatricality. Do you say? Do you
0:49
Speaker 1: say thespian or thespian? You know, it depends on how
0:54
Speaker 1: I feel about the person I'm describing. I'm gonna keep
0:57
Speaker 1: it one hundred with you. If I like them, then
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Speaker 1: I really chew the scenery on that one, you know,
1:04
Speaker 1: So they're like them? Yes, yeah, apologies to my college
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Speaker 1: actor friends if you just learned something about my opinion.
1:15
Speaker 1: But but today, no, we're so excited. This is a
1:18
Speaker 1: long one in the making. Man. You and I are
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Speaker 1: diving into a story concerning one of, if not the
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Speaker 1: most highly regarded English playwrights of all time. That's right,
1:31
Speaker 1: Old Willie shakes himself. That's a street name. You might
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Speaker 1: know him as Shakespeare for Billium. But but we're not
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Speaker 1: doing it alone, dude, We're joined with We can say
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Speaker 1: this I checked off airman with an award winning actor, director,
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Speaker 1: and playwright, a friend of the show and the creator
1:50
Speaker 1: of his own show, story Time. It's Mr will McFadden.
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Speaker 1: It is an honor and a pleasure to be here, gentlemen,
2:06
Speaker 1: thank you so much for having me. William from one
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Speaker 1: William to another. How are you? I'm doing well. Also,
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Speaker 1: just a heads up, we had to change the name
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Speaker 1: to hashtag Storytime because Seth Rogan showed up and just
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Speaker 1: you know, elbowed us right out of there. So I
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Speaker 1: gotta you know, I mainly like Seth Rogan. I like
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Speaker 1: his uh, his openness about being high all the time,
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Speaker 1: but I was a little peeved about him, you know,
2:31
Speaker 1: throwing his weight around. Yeah, man, read the room, you know,
2:34
Speaker 1: just like see if there's another one out there before
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Speaker 1: you just you just gobble up that name. And then
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Speaker 1: he didn't even like he didn't even keep the show going.
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Speaker 1: I think he did, like it was like a COVID show.
2:43
Speaker 1: And then like sort of things opened buck up again
2:45
Speaker 1: and now he's like off, you know, making movies, and
2:47
Speaker 1: I'm trying to cultivate beef between me and Seth Rogan
2:50
Speaker 1: just as a marketing stunt. I got your back. Yeah,
2:53
Speaker 1: because when I saw hashtag story Time, I just thought, Wow,
2:57
Speaker 1: these guys are way better at marketing. Then I like
3:01
Speaker 1: they put the thought into it. And uh, full disclosure,
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Speaker 1: I've been on story Time in the past, where has
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Speaker 1: given the opportunity to apologize to the good people of
3:10
Speaker 1: Germany and uh to sing the praises a fifty cent
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Speaker 1: in Guatemala. And Noel, you've been on Storytime as well, right,
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Speaker 1: I have? I have. My episode was a couple of
3:21
Speaker 1: weeks ago, and it was a story involving my hometown
3:23
Speaker 1: of Augusta, Georgia and one of its native sons, Mr
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Speaker 1: James Brown. No relation, but I had got a cool
3:29
Speaker 1: brush with with greatness when I was younger working in
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Speaker 1: a music store. And will you were kind enough to
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Speaker 1: let both me and Ben and some of our other
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Speaker 1: favorite colleagues. Lauren Vogelbaum Annie Reese has been on the show.
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Speaker 1: Who Am I missing? Mike John's literary maverick Extraordinaire of
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Speaker 1: Atlanta g a co founder of the Right Club literary
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Speaker 1: event which Ben has also participated. No challenge in the squad,
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Speaker 1: as Ben would say, so, really, thank you for for
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Speaker 1: giving us a voice. I've been telling this story for
3:56
Speaker 1: years and never thought that I would have a chance
3:59
Speaker 1: to kind of do like a defend a diversion of it,
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Speaker 1: which I am. That's what I'm calling the episode. It was,
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Speaker 1: It was. It was an honor having both of you,
4:06
Speaker 1: and both of your stories are so entertaining and delightful.
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Speaker 1: And the people of Germany did not accept your apology benefit.
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Speaker 1: They called it severely adequate, which is not the same
4:18
Speaker 1: thing as forgiveness. But we are We have asked you
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Speaker 1: on ridiculous history today, Will, because we vibe with each
4:26
Speaker 1: other as you as you can tell ridiculous historians, we
4:29
Speaker 1: wanted to hang out and we started talking with you,
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Speaker 1: Will and saying like, well, what are what are some
4:34
Speaker 1: things that you are interested in historically? What are some
4:39
Speaker 1: obscure things? What are some things that might be maybe
4:43
Speaker 1: not known to people who are not somehow in the
4:46
Speaker 1: world of these stories? And you wasted no time, no hesitancy.
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Speaker 1: I loved it. You came right to us and you said,
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Speaker 1: you guys ever talked about Macbeth? Have that locked and loaded?
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Speaker 1: Was waiting for somebody to ask me, anybody talk about
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Speaker 1: the Curse of McBeth. The Scottish play anybody, nobody, Okay,
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Speaker 1: I'll do it. Uh this is this is uh fascinating
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Speaker 1: tests maybe one of the ways that we get into
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Speaker 1: this just for anyone who doesn't know, like the rough
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Speaker 1: high level plot, the elevator pitch of McBeth had had
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Speaker 1: Billy shakes ha to give one what would Macbeth be
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Speaker 1: described as? Can I see have been really quickly because
5:27
Speaker 1: I've been saving this and I have to do it.
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Speaker 1: There's a well, are you familiar with the show Little Britain.
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Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, i haven't watched it in a long time,
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Speaker 1: but I've seen I've seen a few episodes. It's good.
5:39
Speaker 1: It's like it's a very huge in England. You know,
5:41
Speaker 1: they tried to do an American version of it here
5:43
Speaker 1: there's just a sketch on it that absolutely loved. There's
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Speaker 1: this character named Dennis Waterman, who I think is based
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Speaker 1: on a real you know, some sort of like niche
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Speaker 1: British person that we would never really be familiar with.
5:52
Speaker 1: But the joke is that he's very small and he's
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Speaker 1: always going to his agent's office trying to get jobs
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Speaker 1: and turning down every job because he insists on being
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Speaker 1: able to write the theme tune sing the theme tune
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Speaker 1: and star in the show. And he gets asked if
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Speaker 1: he wants to be in uh in Macbeth, and he goes,
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Speaker 1: he wants to write the theme to just say this
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Speaker 1: is the song that he comes up. He goes, Mr Macbeth,
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Speaker 1: there's a naughty man a do do do do do?
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Speaker 1: Going and killed another man? Do do do do? Do Do? Do?
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Speaker 1: I have a good idea? Just thou keeps mena I'll
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Speaker 1: be so good for the Scottish play. That's it, And
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Speaker 1: that's the format of every theme tune he writes, And
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Speaker 1: that's it. But that I think it was a really
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Speaker 1: lovely description. A naughty man killed another man and then
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Speaker 1: stuff happens exactly. That's all you really need to know.
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Speaker 1: The broad strokes, Yeah, there were some strokes. What what what?
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Speaker 1: What's what's what's next? Let's give us the rundown. Who
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Speaker 1: is the other man that he kills? And one are
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Speaker 1: the things that hath happened? Yes? Well, you know Macbeth's
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Speaker 1: all about ambition and also about destiny. Macbeth essentially wins
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Speaker 1: a huge battle at the beginning of the play, and
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Speaker 1: then he encounters three weird sisters, some witches and uh
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Speaker 1: they greet him and say that he has all these
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Speaker 1: new titles and he's like, whoa, what are you talking about?
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Speaker 1: And then uh, they say he's one day gonna be
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Speaker 1: king and he's like, okay, interesting, I'm gonna, you know,
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Speaker 1: put that in my back pocket, hold onto it. He
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Speaker 1: basically tells his wife this. She gets just bloodthirsty with
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Speaker 1: this idea. She loves it. She's like, great, we're gonna
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Speaker 1: kill the king when he comes to the house tonight.
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Speaker 1: It's gonna be awesome. Macbeth is kind of like, I
7:32
Speaker 1: don't know, that's maybe not the best idea. He's like,
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Speaker 1: you know, there's rules when you have a guest over,
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Speaker 1: you're not supposed to murder them. Maybe we shouldn't do this.
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Speaker 1: She's like, screw your courage to the sticking place, boyo.
7:42
Speaker 1: And they decided to go forth forward with it, and
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Speaker 1: he he murders the king and becomes the king, and uh,
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Speaker 1: there's there's more scenes with the witches proclaimed are you know,
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Speaker 1: prophesizing as to his downfall, but he thinks he's invincible.
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Speaker 1: Um and the only way that he can be killed
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Speaker 1: is by a man who is not a woman. Born
8:03
Speaker 1: m m Enter McDuff who was from his mother's womb, untimely,
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Speaker 1: untimely ripped. It was born of a cesarean section that
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Speaker 1: reminds me of the whole like the twist in Lord
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Speaker 1: of the Rings where it's like, no, no man can
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Speaker 1: kill whatever, Like The Ring where the leader of the
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Speaker 1: Ring wraiths and then you know, he gets killed and
8:23
Speaker 1: he takes off the helmet. It's a woman. Yeah, yeah,
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Speaker 1: that's kind of the same kind of that's the same
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Speaker 1: kind of twist. I think that Tolkien probably stole a
8:34
Speaker 1: little bit. Yeah, absolutely, profly, you know, loosely. Sorry, I'm sorry.
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Speaker 1: My girlfriend hates that when I say like that, this
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Speaker 1: shows me a band and my that is such a
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Speaker 1: rip off of this other thing. I seem to soften
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Speaker 1: my language, am I? What a lovely homage to this
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Speaker 1: other tributes? Right? Uh do you guys hear I made
8:55
Speaker 1: up a new word. It's plagiarism. I'm kidding. I didn't
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Speaker 1: even write that joke anyway. So thanks well staff, thanks refunds. Yeah,
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Speaker 1: so it's a free podcast for the Yeah. So we
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Speaker 1: had a we had an interesting conversation about this offline.
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Speaker 1: This is a canonical play. It's a huge deal. A
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Speaker 1: lot of people have maybe acted in excerpts of this.
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Speaker 1: This player done an entire production years back in a
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Speaker 1: different life, I was cast in Macbeth. I I didn't
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Speaker 1: get to play McBeth. I wasn't a big big deal.
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Speaker 1: But it wasn't until I was able to be in
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Speaker 1: that production that I personally learned of the subject of
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Speaker 1: today's episode, which is this the Scottish play reputedly is cursed.
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Speaker 1: Why you're supposed to call it the Scottish play exactly,
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Speaker 1: and you know the name of the thing or the
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Speaker 1: Scottish business. I've also heard, Yeah, there's there's lots of variants,
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Speaker 1: but that is specifically the world, okay, al, because I
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Speaker 1: don't believe any of us are actually physically sitting in
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Speaker 1: a theater. I mean we are participating in a theater
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Speaker 1: of the mind. But that's different um physical the the
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Speaker 1: the hallowed grounds, the boards that that that that have
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Speaker 1: hath been tread uh, the theater that is specifically this
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Speaker 1: refers to as saying that name inside the theater. And
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Speaker 1: we're gonna get this amazing examples of this curse kind
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Speaker 1: of coming to fruition. Um. Whether or not you believe
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Speaker 1: in curses or not, it's hard to deny that there's
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Speaker 1: some spooky coincidences. But what is the history of the curse?
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Speaker 1: Why is Macbeth cursed the play itself? For those of
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Speaker 1: you who may not be Thesbians or Thespians, you may
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Speaker 1: not even be aware that there is this superstition and
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Speaker 1: and this taboo of saying that word inside of a theater.
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Speaker 1: But if you are around anybody with a B F A,
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Speaker 1: they will instantly jump down your throat if you say
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Speaker 1: that during because it's it's purportedly to bring very bad luck,
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Speaker 1: even if you're not performing that play. If you just
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Speaker 1: inside a theater, if you say Macbeth, it's horrible luck.
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Speaker 1: And then there's a bunch of crazy rituals to kind
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Speaker 1: of cleanse yourself if you do happen to Yeah, walking
11:16
Speaker 1: witter Shans or whatever, what like was something like that. Yeah,
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Speaker 1: the theater company that I was a part of, you
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Speaker 1: had to go outside, spin in a circle, spit and
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Speaker 1: yell a curse word and then knock and ask permission
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Speaker 1: to be let back in the theater. A bunch of hullabaloo. Yeah,
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Speaker 1: your accuracy is everywhere, you know. But but there's there's
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Speaker 1: a process and you're absolutely right. I think everybody, even
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Speaker 1: people in the theatrical community consider themselves quite skeptical, will
11:46
Speaker 1: still participate in this and treat it as though it
11:49
Speaker 1: is a taboo, because it's kind of like, you know,
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Speaker 1: at some points, a cost benefit thing. If it's not real,
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Speaker 1: and then it doesn't matter what you do. But if it's,
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Speaker 1: if it is real, it's not very difficult to just
12:02
Speaker 1: not say the M word right right, right. From what
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Speaker 1: I understand, this is a very very old thing. This
12:11
Speaker 1: didn't just happen during like the Satanic panic in the
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Speaker 1: US of the How old is the belief in this curse?
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Speaker 1: I don't know why it is to almost say, coois,
12:22
Speaker 1: we're not the three students, but it foiled again. It
12:28
Speaker 1: apparently goes back to the first the very first production,
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Speaker 1: and it's carried throughout the centuries. Productions of the play
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Speaker 1: have been plagued with bad luck, deaths, sicknesses, and just
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Speaker 1: all sorts of crazy things happening, which makes you beg,
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Speaker 1: you know, begs the question of is there an actual
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Speaker 1: curse or are actors just clumsy and uncoordinated. It's you know,
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Speaker 1: up for debate. But the very first production of the play.
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Speaker 1: It was rumored that Shakespeare used real, not only incantations
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Speaker 1: from from witches, but also ingredients commonly used in their cauldrons.
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Speaker 1: Was one, Yeah, thumb of a sailor I think was
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Speaker 1: another one. How come that one didn't make the hit list?
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Speaker 1: You know what I mean? When we say I have
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Speaker 1: newed all the time, No one remembers some of the sailor. Yeah,
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Speaker 1: it's a good one. They're harder to come by. I
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Speaker 1: think it's true. It's hard, just like a pain blood bat,
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Speaker 1: I believe. But so what what was? What was? You know?
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Speaker 1: What was believed was that because he used this real
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Speaker 1: these real incantations and real ingredients, that the witches of
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Speaker 1: the time were piste off at his cultural appropriation, and
13:52
Speaker 1: they placed a curse on the production. That's that's the
13:57
Speaker 1: going story. And then very first performance actually was cursed
14:03
Speaker 1: and the actor who was playing the young man male
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Speaker 1: actor playing Lady Macbeth came down with a fever and
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Speaker 1: died days before opening. And apparently Shakespeare himself was rumored
14:16
Speaker 1: to have to have gone on in his stead, which
14:19
Speaker 1: was common. Right. It was yeah, men playing women's roles, right,
14:23
Speaker 1: that was the That was the usual. That was the norm.
14:26
Speaker 1: It was the it was the Norman. Also, Shakespeare, probably
14:34
Speaker 1: for being honest, was the person who had the next
14:38
Speaker 1: best grasp of the lines. So at that point it's
14:41
Speaker 1: just like a production decision, you know, and we know
14:45
Speaker 1: there's something else that will I think, uh informed the
14:48
Speaker 1: context here, which is the reign of King James the
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Speaker 1: First and King James the First, massive theater guy, massive
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Speaker 1: theater buff loved pay, patronizing the theater and being a
15:01
Speaker 1: patron thereof, so he was like Shakespeare's number one most
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Speaker 1: important audience member, which is also why the King James
15:10
Speaker 1: version of the Bible sounds like Shakespeare right kind of?
15:14
Speaker 1: Was this the same? This is the King James that
15:17
Speaker 1: did the Bible printings, right, I believe. So I'm telling you,
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Speaker 1: I mean that the way the King James version of
15:23
Speaker 1: the Bible was translated it reads like Shakespearean pros in
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Speaker 1: a lot of ways. So I mean, I'm not saying
15:27
Speaker 1: it was directly. It had to have been like the
15:30
Speaker 1: style of the time, and it was probably largely because
15:32
Speaker 1: of his uh, his fondness for the for the bard. Well,
15:36
Speaker 1: Shakespeare been around. He was forty six years old in sixteen,
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Speaker 1: when people are finalizing the translations, so it can you
15:45
Speaker 1: imagine uh, just knowing that the king is coming to
15:48
Speaker 1: see your your play, like why you're writing it, and
15:51
Speaker 1: being like, I'm pretty sure, pretty sure the King is
15:53
Speaker 1: gonna come, so I'm gonna make sure he's into this thing.
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Speaker 1: So what's the king into demonology? I guess let's throw
16:00
Speaker 1: ow some witches in here. Maybe he'd be into that.
16:02
Speaker 1: He really he's playing to his audience. You know, he's
16:04
Speaker 1: like writing this play just to please the King, like
16:07
Speaker 1: you know, I don't know, if imagine if I don't know,
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Speaker 1: Joe Biden was listening to every episode of Particulous History,
16:13
Speaker 1: like Scamps Somewhere. Let's less less to be screaming at
16:19
Speaker 1: your podcast implements too loudly. I think my timing is
16:23
Speaker 1: a little off, but it is something that people have
16:25
Speaker 1: observed that the King, James, Bible and Shakespeare have a
16:28
Speaker 1: similar tone. But the timing, to your point, bent isn't
16:31
Speaker 1: quite right. But clearly what Shakespeare did he didn't do
16:35
Speaker 1: in a vacuum. I mean, he didn't completely invent this,
16:37
Speaker 1: this type of speaking, this type of prose, It was,
16:40
Speaker 1: it was out there. He was just really good at
16:42
Speaker 1: it and got really famous for it. Well, yeah, I
16:44
Speaker 1: think it's the timeline is in support of that supposition,
16:48
Speaker 1: because if Shakespeare's forty six in six, then that means
16:53
Speaker 1: he's actively been writing, producing, in staging plays, so people
16:56
Speaker 1: are going to be aware of his language. So that's
16:59
Speaker 1: why I could see it definitely informing it because the
17:02
Speaker 1: people doing the translation for the King are just like
17:05
Speaker 1: Shakespeare in a way. They're saying, Okay, we've got one
17:08
Speaker 1: very important reader. We got a v. I. P. Reader,
17:11
Speaker 1: and we know what he likes. So let's just nobody lie.
17:17
Speaker 1: You just kind of embellish, Okay, just kinda read the room.
17:22
Speaker 1: And to jump in here real quick, I mean, what
17:24
Speaker 1: is the sixteen o six? The King James Bibles are
17:26
Speaker 1: in sixteen eleven, so I mean we're talking five years
17:28
Speaker 1: difference right there. Now, there's definitely some some alignment, but
17:32
Speaker 1: I don't want to go out on a limb and
17:34
Speaker 1: say that it was definitely like one to one. But again,
17:36
Speaker 1: I think that that type of speech, that type of
17:39
Speaker 1: writing of of of theater was not something that Shakespeare
17:43
Speaker 1: like invented out of whole cloth. He was just probably
17:45
Speaker 1: the one that we think of the most. So there's
17:46
Speaker 1: a lot of when you google this, like a lot
17:48
Speaker 1: of people make this comparison and ask this question. But
17:50
Speaker 1: he was a very important patron of Shakespeare, and apparently
17:55
Speaker 1: he did not like the show. Not a of the
18:01
Speaker 1: play could have been the whole murdering the king part
18:05
Speaker 1: that clearly wasn't him. Though this is clearly a Scottish king,
18:11
Speaker 1: you know, I mean it's and there's witchcraft at work,
18:14
Speaker 1: you know, I mean I would have taken it as
18:16
Speaker 1: like a compliment. It's like, well, only the malevolent forces
18:19
Speaker 1: of Satan himself could bring me down. You know. There's
18:23
Speaker 1: another part here too. You can find some I think
18:27
Speaker 1: kind of in the weeds, but fascinating inaccuracies in Macbeth
18:33
Speaker 1: that are I'm not gonna say percent proven, but like
18:37
Speaker 1: it really seems as those Shakespeare himself kind of airbrush
18:42
Speaker 1: some stuff, took some creative license with some characters, especially
18:47
Speaker 1: if Jean James the First was considered a descendant of
18:50
Speaker 1: the characters. This is not like the modern days where
18:54
Speaker 1: you can say, okay, Joe Biden didn't like our podcast,
18:59
Speaker 1: and so dang, he went on stage and mentioned it
19:03
Speaker 1: in a mean way and kind of a rambling non
19:07
Speaker 1: glued addressed to the nation. That would be great for
19:10
Speaker 1: our numbers. Actually, back then, if the king didn't like
19:13
Speaker 1: your play, he could arrest you. He could just have
19:15
Speaker 1: you killed. You know what I mean? So big steaks.
19:18
Speaker 1: What happens? You said, James doesn't like the play. Jimmy
19:22
Speaker 1: is not happy, not pleased. And apparently because of that,
19:27
Speaker 1: the show was not performed again for many, many, many
19:30
Speaker 1: many years. And it's hard to exactly pinpoint when the
19:33
Speaker 1: next performance was, but uh there there's some sites that
19:38
Speaker 1: say that the next time it was performed was actually
19:41
Speaker 1: not in England, but was performed in Amsterdam and in
19:44
Speaker 1: sixteen seventy two, and that production also had some mishaps,
19:51
Speaker 1: some some problems where apparently the actor who was playing
19:55
Speaker 1: Macbeth was having an affair with the wife of the
19:59
Speaker 1: actor playing Duncan and then chose to actually bring a
20:04
Speaker 1: real dagger on stage and murder Duncan for real? What
20:10
Speaker 1: during the during the performance? Dude, this is so funny. Um,
20:14
Speaker 1: there's an episode of l A Law or maybe not
20:18
Speaker 1: l A law leybe Law and Order. Um. Are you
20:20
Speaker 1: familiar with the long running New York interactive play, Um,
20:24
Speaker 1: Sleep No More? Yes? Yes, it's fabulous and it is loosely,
20:28
Speaker 1: you know, tied to Macbeth. The the actual action that
20:31
Speaker 1: takes place when you're in this, I would only just
20:33
Speaker 1: I could only maybe describe it as like a an
20:35
Speaker 1: interactive psychedelic consumers theater. Very one of the coolest things
20:40
Speaker 1: I've ever experienced in my life. But there is an episode.
20:43
Speaker 1: So yeah, so you you're walking around, You've got these
20:45
Speaker 1: masks on, You're in the same space as the players,
20:48
Speaker 1: and it's a three D space. You're walking upstairs and
20:50
Speaker 1: you kind of chase whoever it's interested you do. You
20:53
Speaker 1: kind of follow them around and get distracted and sort
20:55
Speaker 1: of like being on a video game or something. It's
20:57
Speaker 1: it's fabulous, but it does end in like the banquet
20:59
Speaker 1: scene from McBeth. Isn't that in Macbeth? Yeah, there's a
21:03
Speaker 1: banquet scene with like there's also some king Lear elements.
21:05
Speaker 1: Point is there's an episode of Law and Order. This
21:08
Speaker 1: play has been running that long, this this immersive thing,
21:10
Speaker 1: probably since the nineties, where it's a thing like that,
21:14
Speaker 1: but it's not exactly that. But the twist is that
21:18
Speaker 1: someone actually kills the person for real in it, and
21:21
Speaker 1: then you know the sam Waterson and his just crew
21:24
Speaker 1: have to solve the crime. I just thought that was
21:26
Speaker 1: funny connection. But yeah, what an interesting like He's been
21:31
Speaker 1: used as a trope in other you know, pop cultural
21:34
Speaker 1: kind of things. It was actually a thing in uh
21:36
Speaker 1: Station eleven, which had to play within a play. But
21:38
Speaker 1: the idea of killing someone for real, uh, in a
21:41
Speaker 1: play where no one's expecting that to happen, and the
21:44
Speaker 1: props can look a lot like real weapons, you know, Yeah,
21:47
Speaker 1: it's not the best way to go about murdering someone.
21:50
Speaker 1: I feel like, maybe do it after the show when
21:53
Speaker 1: there's not an audience full of people, you know, yeah,
21:57
Speaker 1: and then like where you're understudies at again, it's production
22:00
Speaker 1: question to ethics society. But the situation this is weird
22:07
Speaker 1: to me because there's already uh, we're seeing a work
22:12
Speaker 1: of historical fiction is what we call it today, but
22:16
Speaker 1: we're seed interact with real world consequences and there's a
22:22
Speaker 1: lot you can read into it if you are someone
22:25
Speaker 1: in the sixteen hundreds watching this and you see like
22:29
Speaker 1: I had to play, God, what's the guy's named banquet
22:32
Speaker 1: or some banquet I had to play and uh, they
22:35
Speaker 1: have lines where it's like and often times to win
22:38
Speaker 1: us to a haam. The instruments of darkness tell us truths,
22:41
Speaker 1: win us with honest trifles to portray and deepest consequence. Basically,
22:46
Speaker 1: they're saying a good way to lie to people is
22:49
Speaker 1: to kind of tell them the truth. You know, centuries
22:52
Speaker 1: later Emily Dickinson will say, tell the truth, but tell
22:55
Speaker 1: its slant and and things like that. So I can
22:57
Speaker 1: see audience members all ready very sensitive to this play
23:02
Speaker 1: between fiction and fact and the I bring this up
23:07
Speaker 1: because imagining seeing someone actually get fatally stabbed in front
23:13
Speaker 1: of like, you would wonder whether it was on purpose.
23:17
Speaker 1: You might even I would not be surprised if several
23:19
Speaker 1: people in the in the theater, several like maybe folks
23:22
Speaker 1: who weren't quite groundling level, weren't too close to this stage.
23:26
Speaker 1: I'd be surprised if at least a few of them
23:27
Speaker 1: didn't turn to each other and say, man, that guy
23:31
Speaker 1: can act. That is commitment. You know. Special effects in
23:36
Speaker 1: this production are yes, I love it, And this is
23:42
Speaker 1: just one strange and disturbing incident. Right like you said,
23:48
Speaker 1: this is kind of dogged. The Scottish business my new
23:52
Speaker 1: favorite phrase now, the Scottish business. For a while Yeah,
23:55
Speaker 1: that that's that was the next horrible, you know, tragedy
23:59
Speaker 1: that that befell a production. You would think at some
24:03
Speaker 1: point theater companies would be like, We're not doing this
24:07
Speaker 1: play anymore. People keep dying, but they keep going. So
24:11
Speaker 1: I think the next time that it was performed in
24:14
Speaker 1: possibly in London, was it was a company called the
24:17
Speaker 1: Dukes the Duke's Men. You gotta hit that liquid you
24:20
Speaker 1: and you say, do you know, Duke, Duke pukes, Duke
24:25
Speaker 1: doesn't puke. That's what they say. I prefer to even
24:28
Speaker 1: just like go all the way and just combine and
24:30
Speaker 1: call it the Dukesman, the Dukes and the Dukesman. So
24:34
Speaker 1: they were a company. They were licensed by Charles the
24:36
Speaker 1: Second to perform Macbeth at the time, and they were
24:38
Speaker 1: they were this is early sixteen seventies, came to the
24:41
Speaker 1: big duel of Macbeth McDuff and there was an accident
24:45
Speaker 1: where the actor named Henry Harris accidentally ran his sword
24:51
Speaker 1: through the eye of the actor playing Macbeth, killing him.
24:56
Speaker 1: Which can you imagine being in the audience? Yeah, no,
25:01
Speaker 1: being the guy, you know, either one of them, I
25:05
Speaker 1: would feel terrible again, whether I've been run through the
25:09
Speaker 1: eye or a run through someone someone's eye by accident.
25:12
Speaker 1: A really quick housekeeping questions, you say, licensed by Charles.
25:16
Speaker 1: The second was the king at this point just the
25:18
Speaker 1: keeper of all intellectual property, Like you had to get
25:22
Speaker 1: licensed or leave from the king to perform a play. Yeah,
25:25
Speaker 1: I'm imagining, you know, like King's men going around being like, oh, yeah,
25:29
Speaker 1: like this is an unlicensed Shakespeare show. You know nothing
25:34
Speaker 1: to see it. I can see that. Yeah, this I
25:38
Speaker 1: I agree with you. Guys, like the idea. Okay, you
25:41
Speaker 1: can see someone appear to be stabbed in the torso
25:45
Speaker 1: on stage, and it can look very believable. Right, so
25:48
Speaker 1: even then you could say, hey, maybe that's a proper whatever.
25:51
Speaker 1: But eyeballs are a lot harder to pull off realistically,
25:56
Speaker 1: even in the modern days. So this was clearly a
26:00
Speaker 1: fatal accident. And you know, I have to ask do
26:04
Speaker 1: you think, and even if we're just speculating here, it's
26:07
Speaker 1: a good question. Do you think this mccab series of
26:12
Speaker 1: accidents and homicides would have made the play less popular
26:17
Speaker 1: for the public or would it have been more compelling,
26:21
Speaker 1: like would it have put more butts in seats? The
26:24
Speaker 1: idea that it was dangerous m hm, so so it's
26:28
Speaker 1: a big marketing scheme. I mean maybe they they cursed
26:35
Speaker 1: the play themselves, you know, no, I have to say.
26:39
Speaker 1: I mean I have always found this to be one
26:43
Speaker 1: of the more interesting and grabby Shakespeare plays. I like
26:47
Speaker 1: witchy stuff. I think we all do. I like Murder,
26:50
Speaker 1: most foul all that. I I think the Lady Macbeth
26:53
Speaker 1: character is interesting. I like madness, you know. Um. I
26:57
Speaker 1: think that's why it's sort of persevered, and it's also
26:59
Speaker 1: been a apted. I think so many good bit more
27:03
Speaker 1: for for screen than than in any other Shakespeare play
27:06
Speaker 1: that I can think of, not to mention, like the
27:08
Speaker 1: Very lab like the Sleep no more things, but running
27:10
Speaker 1: from ages and various adaptations of it, because how you
27:14
Speaker 1: portray the witches is always interesting. Like I don't know
27:16
Speaker 1: if you guys have seen the uh the New um
27:19
Speaker 1: Cohen uh Shakespeare. But the woman who plays the Witches,
27:24
Speaker 1: Catherine Hunter, freaking fantastic, like contorting her body and literally
27:29
Speaker 1: playing like all three and like are they in her head?
27:32
Speaker 1: Are there three of them? You don't even know? Sometimes
27:35
Speaker 1: they're just a reflection and it's just so cool. It's
27:37
Speaker 1: very like bergman esque. The whole production of that film,
27:41
Speaker 1: so I don't know. I mean, it's so tight as Andronicus,
27:44
Speaker 1: but it's laps. I love the love of the film adaptation.
27:49
Speaker 1: I love the film adaptation of that by Julie Taymore.
27:52
Speaker 1: It was, like, I think one of her only films.
27:54
Speaker 1: She did a really kind of by my understanding, pretty
27:58
Speaker 1: bad Beatles movie called Across the Universe. She's also famous
28:01
Speaker 1: for like completely running that Spiderman musical into the ground,
28:05
Speaker 1: turn Off the Dark. That was her uh And also
28:08
Speaker 1: she's famous in a positive way for The Lion King.
28:10
Speaker 1: She did all the production design for that. But Titus
28:13
Speaker 1: is a really cool Shakespeare adaptation as where there's there's
28:15
Speaker 1: something about Titus where it's like every on average, like
28:19
Speaker 1: every seven lines, either a limb is hacked off or
28:22
Speaker 1: somebody who dies the bloodiest of bloody plays see and
28:27
Speaker 1: they say the guy doesn't have range. I'm kidding. People
28:29
Speaker 1: don't say that about Yeah, I guess no. No. I
28:32
Speaker 1: think that those are both interesting points because I think
28:34
Speaker 1: maybe that's why Macbeth occupies this like a middle ground
28:39
Speaker 1: between his like lighter work and more depressing work and
28:43
Speaker 1: stuff like Ties is just too much because it's got
28:45
Speaker 1: all of the chops of Titus. Literally, maybe not, it's
28:49
Speaker 1: quite as many chops, but it's got like a lot
28:51
Speaker 1: of the same drama and grotesqueness, but it's a little
28:54
Speaker 1: more palatable. Yeah, I mean, I think shakespeare Titus was,
28:58
Speaker 1: if I recall correct Lee, Shakespeare's first tragedy, tragedy historic
29:04
Speaker 1: historians agree, yet like fifteen eighties something and like the
29:09
Speaker 1: late fifteen eighties. So so by the time he gets
29:12
Speaker 1: to make Beth, he's got he's he's learned a little
29:17
Speaker 1: bit more more about the art of of subtlety, and
29:20
Speaker 1: he's like, hey, maybe maybe you can earn a death
29:24
Speaker 1: or dismemberment as a slow Burton, right, right, maybe we
29:28
Speaker 1: don't cook the children into a pie and feed it
29:31
Speaker 1: to their mother. Sorry, it's okay. Yeah, I think I
29:35
Speaker 1: think we've passed the statute of limitations from spoilers on
29:37
Speaker 1: that one. Yeah, so people still keep making Make Beth,
29:42
Speaker 1: and uh, I think we're going to get to an
29:44
Speaker 1: interesting question about just how cursed it may be. But
29:48
Speaker 1: to do that, we should probably walk through a few
29:50
Speaker 1: more incidents. Because it wasn't always actors stabbing each other,
29:56
Speaker 1: whether out of anger or whether out of acces it right, right,
30:08
Speaker 1: There was one in three where a category to hurricane
30:14
Speaker 1: struck England and caused a ton of damage, millions of
30:19
Speaker 1: pounds worth of damage and killed seaman right as the
30:23
Speaker 1: play was opening. So that was one from the gods
30:28
Speaker 1: that is three thumbs, just to point out they got
30:34
Speaker 1: to go collect those. Yeah. So, so natural forces are
30:38
Speaker 1: conspiring against people saying the M word on and then
30:44
Speaker 1: what what about when the play goes He's already gone
30:47
Speaker 1: international in Europe, but what about when it crosses the pond?
30:51
Speaker 1: Because we know that the US since its inception, also
30:55
Speaker 1: loved Shakespeare. Pretty much everybody agreed this guy was thought
31:00
Speaker 1: of is the best author in the language of all time.
31:03
Speaker 1: He's the goat. That's right. Well, the famous Aster Place Rights,
31:08
Speaker 1: which I feel like I could have its own episode
31:10
Speaker 1: because we did it didn't. Yeah, so let's go back
31:14
Speaker 1: to the Aster Place Riots episode and actually but that
31:19
Speaker 1: uh yeah, so that was two warring actors of the
31:23
Speaker 1: great Edwin Forest and uh and then Charles McCready, which
31:28
Speaker 1: I always think the other one is the British one
31:30
Speaker 1: because Edwin Forest sounds like such a British name and
31:34
Speaker 1: Charles McCready sounds like a real American name. But it's
31:37
Speaker 1: the opposite, Mr McCready. What's that from? Mr mccrey, I
31:41
Speaker 1: know what it is. I think it's Is it from
31:43
Speaker 1: Dark City? Is there a character named Mr McCready? I
31:46
Speaker 1: think The Dark City such a good movie, such a
31:50
Speaker 1: good movie. But please, Yeah, this one, uh, this one
31:52
Speaker 1: really escalates quickly and then it gets unnecessarily violent, you know,
31:57
Speaker 1: for like a riot springing from a public performance of
32:01
Speaker 1: a freaking play. Yeah, it wasn't really so much about
32:03
Speaker 1: the play and at the Astro place, right, it was
32:06
Speaker 1: just they so happened to be both performing Macbeth. But
32:09
Speaker 1: it was more about just like using this event as
32:13
Speaker 1: an excuse to start a riot. I feel like, yeah,
32:16
Speaker 1: and again that that episode walks through some of the
32:21
Speaker 1: context there, But there is a real death toll. People
32:25
Speaker 1: are dead, many more wounded, many more have some sort
32:30
Speaker 1: of injury. It's it's not what you associate with a
32:33
Speaker 1: night at the theater unless you will about the Curse
32:36
Speaker 1: of Macbeth. Did you talk at all about the supposed
32:40
Speaker 1: hissing that they were doing to each other back and forth? McCready,
32:43
Speaker 1: I think so. Yeah, there was definitely some real venom there.
32:47
Speaker 1: They were going back. They were going to each other's productions,
32:50
Speaker 1: and then when one of them would pause, the other
32:52
Speaker 1: would be like, so great. But yeah, there was a
33:01
Speaker 1: riot that ensued and and police were dispersed ended up
33:05
Speaker 1: firing into a crowd and I believe around you know,
33:09
Speaker 1: two dozen people or so, we're killed, insane and saying
33:13
Speaker 1: and now we're getting to like modern history. Even so,
33:17
Speaker 1: so it's weird when we talk about McCready and Forest
33:21
Speaker 1: because they are not immortalized on film, right, so unless
33:27
Speaker 1: you saw their performances in real time, you would be
33:30
Speaker 1: reading reviews. So they maybe don't have the same stay
33:33
Speaker 1: in power for a lot of people that actors do
33:37
Speaker 1: once photography and once film go mainstream. And that's where
33:42
Speaker 1: we see that the curse of Macbeth continues to actors
33:46
Speaker 1: that you may know of today, folks, you may have
33:49
Speaker 1: seen their work. I mean, I would say, Sir Lawrence
33:54
Speaker 1: Olivier maybe the most famous Shakespearean actor of all time.
33:59
Speaker 1: And and Olivier did a performance or production at the
34:03
Speaker 1: Old vic In seven and he was preparing to play
34:06
Speaker 1: Macbeth for the first time. And uh, the director and
34:11
Speaker 1: I think the woman who was playing Lady mc duff
34:13
Speaker 1: were in a car accident on the way to the theater.
34:16
Speaker 1: Two days later, the dog belonging to the Old Vics
34:20
Speaker 1: founder was run over by a car. So even dogs
34:23
Speaker 1: aren't safe from this purse, even the theater pets. And
34:27
Speaker 1: then Olivia was apparently so distraught by all of this
34:30
Speaker 1: that he lost his voice and couldn't speak, and that
34:34
Speaker 1: had that caused the opening to be postponed, and then uh,
34:40
Speaker 1: three days after the show was opening, the director was replaced.
34:43
Speaker 1: There was just just wrought with with horrible things. A
34:47
Speaker 1: twenty five pounds stage weight apparently crashed down from the flies,
34:52
Speaker 1: barely missing Sir Lawrence Olivier's head by inches. That's the stuff,
34:57
Speaker 1: that's the stuff of theater chaos right there, you know.
35:00
Speaker 1: And bags Willie Nilis Phantom of the Opera type stuff
35:03
Speaker 1: right there, my friends. And then also uh, the woman
35:06
Speaker 1: who was playing I believe Lady Macbeth died of a
35:09
Speaker 1: heart attack just before dress rehearsal. And then the next
35:12
Speaker 1: time the Old vic produced that show, the portrait of
35:15
Speaker 1: of the the actress whose last name is Bayliss that
35:18
Speaker 1: was hung in the theater. It fell from the wall
35:21
Speaker 1: on opening night. Geez. And so in the in the
35:26
Speaker 1: realm of the folklore we're exploring. Then the logic of
35:29
Speaker 1: this curse would be that these disasters don't occur for
35:33
Speaker 1: every production of the Scottish business. They occur when someone
35:38
Speaker 1: anyone in the theater, whether actor, Crewe or civilian, says
35:43
Speaker 1: Macbeth in the room, right in the building. It's apparently
35:48
Speaker 1: it's okay to say it if you're performing the piece,
35:51
Speaker 1: if you're doing that, because obviously you have to say
35:53
Speaker 1: it a number of times, and if every time you
35:54
Speaker 1: said it you had to go outside it spin around,
35:56
Speaker 1: spit becaus and knock on the door and has for
35:57
Speaker 1: permission really slowed down on the rehearsal process. But I
36:02
Speaker 1: think the performance of the play in general is you're
36:06
Speaker 1: you're undertaking your you know, your undergoing a cursed project,
36:13
Speaker 1: a cursed script. So the accompanying superstition is, yeah, is
36:19
Speaker 1: remnants from all of these productions throughout history that have
36:23
Speaker 1: led to deaths and and accidents and horror. That's what
36:26
Speaker 1: I was going to ask, Like, it doesn't necessarily mean
36:28
Speaker 1: it's only triggered by someone saying it out loud, And
36:32
Speaker 1: I guess what what if? What if it's in the
36:34
Speaker 1: in so it's it's in the course of doing the play,
36:36
Speaker 1: you're gonna say the name um. So it's basically the
36:40
Speaker 1: whole implication is that the play itself is cursed, should
36:42
Speaker 1: never be performed. In his name, should not be spoken
36:44
Speaker 1: and in the hallowed halls of of the theater. Has
36:47
Speaker 1: there ever been an adaptation where they just say the
36:49
Speaker 1: M word every time they're gonna say Macbeth, like they
36:52
Speaker 1: literally just say the M word. I would watch it.
36:57
Speaker 1: We should do that one the first non curse production
37:01
Speaker 1: of But when they get confusing is you got McDuff,
37:04
Speaker 1: you got Lady Macbeth as well, So they have to
37:06
Speaker 1: have different distinctions for each of those. Could just be
37:08
Speaker 1: a different sound effects, you know McBeth is like and
37:13
Speaker 1: like McDuff is like. That was too confusing. It should
37:16
Speaker 1: be different, more different than that, maybe like a that's
37:20
Speaker 1: too long? What we can workshop this? I like the idea, though, yeah,
37:24
Speaker 1: I like if we didn't in word, I don't want
37:26
Speaker 1: to overcomplicate this. But then for like, let's go with
37:29
Speaker 1: your idea for for notable sound effects, you know, like
37:33
Speaker 1: an ear is great, and then maybe I just want
37:38
Speaker 1: to hear people say yeaws instead of a name or
37:40
Speaker 1: a Wilhelm scream, you know, for Lady Macbeth. That could
37:44
Speaker 1: be cool. Yeah, my my lord, one I would go
37:51
Speaker 1: to that. I would go to that. And the question
37:54
Speaker 1: would be, is would if they did it and did
37:56
Speaker 1: it consistently, how long would it take for it to
37:58
Speaker 1: not be funny anymore and for you just to be
38:01
Speaker 1: like invested back in the drama of the play. I
38:03
Speaker 1: can tell you from instantly or never, Yeah, I can
38:07
Speaker 1: tell you from experience. It's a it's a two hour,
38:11
Speaker 1: twentysomething minute production with a fifteen minute information intermission. So
38:16
Speaker 1: maybe the best way to do it would be to
38:18
Speaker 1: slowly beat me here, Max, slowly escalates until at the
38:24
Speaker 1: end it's it's absurdest, you know what I mean. And
38:27
Speaker 1: you're just noticing people by the way that they're dressed
38:31
Speaker 1: in the sound effect like it's cacophonous, you know. I
38:34
Speaker 1: would love that the sound design would need to evolve.
38:37
Speaker 1: I am with you, like we will evolve with the
38:40
Speaker 1: rising action of the play. I like this idea. Let's
38:43
Speaker 1: do it the first ridiculous History theater production of Mick
38:48
Speaker 1: w Yeah. Well, oh yeah, Max, that's you also have
38:55
Speaker 1: to you also have to play one of the characters,
38:57
Speaker 1: so clear, clear the schedule. You do this to me.
39:00
Speaker 1: I love this spinoff idea of a ridiculous theater. Yea, yes,
39:06
Speaker 1: well my stories out there in the in the theater.
39:08
Speaker 1: And and the last last thing, there could be a
39:10
Speaker 1: McDonald's tie in and one of the characters could just
39:12
Speaker 1: be like there could be chicken. That could be you know, McCafe,
39:16
Speaker 1: it could be Yeah, I see, guess we've talked about
39:20
Speaker 1: this before, but like you know, we can finally explore,
39:23
Speaker 1: like what happened to Ronald McDonald's. Yes, I've got the guy.
39:27
Speaker 1: I did the research. I've got this one for next
39:30
Speaker 1: a future episode. I want to try something that will
39:32
Speaker 1: do you know what grimaces? Yeah, of course, like like
39:36
Speaker 1: what what what species? Yeah? What is he? An anthropomorphic
39:41
Speaker 1: version of oh um? I don't know how hippo came
39:46
Speaker 1: to mind for some reason that I would have said.
39:48
Speaker 1: I would have said yu vila perhaps, or um, you know,
39:53
Speaker 1: some like a misshapen grape. But color. I thought he
39:57
Speaker 1: was a sauce blob. There you go, because a nice
40:00
Speaker 1: purple he's purple as hell. Max more mind, Yeah, he
40:04
Speaker 1: is a taste bud. Get the sound cute and andish
40:16
Speaker 1: just for you right now. It's gross. It's just gross.
40:25
Speaker 1: They had so many other things they went past before
40:29
Speaker 1: they got the sound. But I mean taste. But they
40:31
Speaker 1: could have said, like so someone pitched tongue and someone
40:35
Speaker 1: else said, nana, it's too much, too general, too sensual,
40:40
Speaker 1: more specific. They probably called him taste buddy at first.
40:43
Speaker 1: That's right there. What he's also huge, he's the biggest
40:47
Speaker 1: of all of them. He's massive. Well, I think that
40:52
Speaker 1: we are helping McDonald's here. We're presenting some clear business opportunities.
40:57
Speaker 1: The M word is going to be a hit. Look
41:00
Speaker 1: for it at a theater near you. But give us
41:02
Speaker 1: some time, give us some time in the writer's room.
41:05
Speaker 1: Before we wrap up, though, I gotta get to the
41:07
Speaker 1: present day. I mean, there's some really good ones leading
41:10
Speaker 1: up to a massive pop cultural phenomenon that happened not
41:15
Speaker 1: three months ago. That's right, that was the reason why
41:17
Speaker 1: I was on my mind. But just to fly through
41:19
Speaker 1: some of the more recent ones. I love the one
41:22
Speaker 1: about Charlton Heston who his his tights were soaked in
41:26
Speaker 1: kerosene and his tights caught on fire during the performance,
41:30
Speaker 1: and like he had burns all over his groins and legs,
41:33
Speaker 1: which is tomorrow at tomorrow route what he has a
41:42
Speaker 1: good point, oddcasting choice, like talk about a scenery each
41:45
Speaker 1: youur and a very specific delivery, you know. And then
41:50
Speaker 1: we also had Alec Baldwin in a production in who
41:55
Speaker 1: he sliced open the hand of the actor playing McDuff
41:59
Speaker 1: and shooting the face. I was gonna say, it's a
42:01
Speaker 1: sad uh, you know, it's it's that we're seeing from
42:06
Speaker 1: Alec babo. I don't mean to make light it is
42:08
Speaker 1: a terrible thing, but it's like, yeah, I made a
42:11
Speaker 1: joke about sailor thumbs. I mean, what's the statute of limitations?
42:15
Speaker 1: There's also there's also uh, this is this was interesting.
42:19
Speaker 1: I don't know a lot about modern celebrities because it
42:24
Speaker 1: different philosophical, ideological reasons. But I was really interested that
42:28
Speaker 1: you pointed out and some of the research will that
42:31
Speaker 1: this came up during the what was the Academy Awards,
42:36
Speaker 1: That's right. I I was watching the Oscars, which was
42:41
Speaker 1: going fine and just a normal Oscars, and then you know,
42:45
Speaker 1: something happened. And what I noticed was that Chris Rock
42:50
Speaker 1: was on stage and he said, quote Denzel macbeth loved it,
42:55
Speaker 1: and then right after he said that, I was like, oh,
42:57
Speaker 1: I shouldn't have said that. You should have said that
42:59
Speaker 1: you're in a theater, Chris, that's mad. Luck shouldn't have
43:02
Speaker 1: said that. Went a little nuts too, while all the
43:04
Speaker 1: Theato nerds took to Twitter and we're like oh. And
43:08
Speaker 1: then moments later Will Smith was possessed by the ghost
43:12
Speaker 1: of a witch and slapped Chris Rock in the face
43:16
Speaker 1: m hm, unprecedented. And then later one one one quite
43:22
Speaker 1: prestigious award. I don't know if you want to say
43:25
Speaker 1: prestigious or prestigious. I just feel like prestigious sounds fancier, unnecessary,
43:30
Speaker 1: Like it's like the it's like the thespian thespian question geeks,
43:34
Speaker 1: when you're talking about the mayonnaise. It's definitely dukes. Dukes,
43:43
Speaker 1: English Royalty, gentry, Landed gentry are dukes. Yeah, if anybody
43:49
Speaker 1: was like, would you like some dukes on your sandwich?
43:51
Speaker 1: Or ham sandwich with some dukes? Like a spy, a spy,
43:57
Speaker 1: I've found him, who are you working for? So there
44:01
Speaker 1: was another one, and and I think it's I think
44:03
Speaker 1: it's a neat book, and that this is the one
44:05
Speaker 1: we're wrapping up with because as you, as you foreshadowed
44:07
Speaker 1: just a second ago, Will, there is a reason, very specific,
44:12
Speaker 1: recent reason that Macbeth was on your mind. So perhaps
44:16
Speaker 1: we were incorrect when we thought this guy's just had
44:19
Speaker 1: this locked and loaded for years. You know what brought
44:22
Speaker 1: this story to the forefront of your mind when we
44:26
Speaker 1: asked about cool stories from history. I mean it was
44:30
Speaker 1: it was mainly the Chris Rock situation that it was
44:33
Speaker 1: still rattling around in my head. But then also Daniel
44:37
Speaker 1: Craig is doing a production on Broadway, and I mean,
44:40
Speaker 1: I feel like this is going to be more common
44:42
Speaker 1: and not just productions of Macbeth. But they had to
44:45
Speaker 1: cancel some preview performances because multiple people tested positive for
44:49
Speaker 1: COVID nineteen, which is the new curse of of theater
44:53
Speaker 1: and live events. Glad we had a golden little moment
44:56
Speaker 1: where everything felt kind of normal again, and now it's
44:59
Speaker 1: like everyone's again that all over again. We just fietfully.
45:03
Speaker 1: It seems like the cases are mild, office party are
45:06
Speaker 1: good bye office party because of because of COVID. It's
45:09
Speaker 1: it's hitting everybody equally. Um obviously because of Macbeth, and
45:14
Speaker 1: obviously because someone said Macbeth in the studio years ago.
45:19
Speaker 1: I blamed Jonathan Strickland ak the quister, But we do
45:22
Speaker 1: want to unless we do a disservice with the very
45:24
Speaker 1: skeptical people in the crowd, we do have to point
45:27
Speaker 1: out methodology here. There have been many many productions of
45:30
Speaker 1: the Scottish business over the centuries, and you're not near
45:34
Speaker 1: as likely to hear about the ones where things went
45:36
Speaker 1: off without a hitch. Will and Nolan, Max and I
45:40
Speaker 1: are well aware of this. But it's happened often enough
45:46
Speaker 1: that people really do believe this superstition. They really do
45:50
Speaker 1: believe that just maybe that that curse from like the
45:53
Speaker 1: sixteen hundreds still around today. Right. I got one question, Ben,
45:57
Speaker 1: the production that you were in, did anything wonky happen
46:01
Speaker 1: or did anybody get hurt emotionally? Oh? Yeah, blood bath?
46:04
Speaker 1: But uh that's a great question, Will, So we had
46:09
Speaker 1: we did have a couple of people who dropped out.
46:12
Speaker 1: We had one person who could no longer be in
46:17
Speaker 1: the production because they got arrested, unrelated I think to
46:21
Speaker 1: the play. But if for people who really believe in
46:24
Speaker 1: this um, this curse or this superstition, then maybe that
46:28
Speaker 1: would be something they could point to. I'll just tell
46:31
Speaker 1: you it's uh, it's still. I have massive respect for
46:34
Speaker 1: Shakespearean actors. I wouldn't consider myself one of those. Uh.
46:38
Speaker 1: I have massive respect for anybody involved with with staging
46:44
Speaker 1: a production of Shakespeare, because those things are intense, they
46:48
Speaker 1: are long, and you really have to work to make
46:51
Speaker 1: sure that it's it's relatable, you know what I mean. Yeah,
46:54
Speaker 1: I I've never done a production of Macbeth. I would
46:57
Speaker 1: love to, hopefully it goes well. I have been injured
47:01
Speaker 1: once though, during a Shakespeare play. It was a Midsummer
47:03
Speaker 1: Night's dream and I was stabbed in the throat, which
47:08
Speaker 1: it was the back of my throat was punctured with
47:11
Speaker 1: a fake flower that had a point like a metal
47:15
Speaker 1: piece for twisties. For doing the twisties. Thanks, thanks, But
47:19
Speaker 1: it was literally in the middle of the first fairy
47:22
Speaker 1: Puck scene and I always put this flower in my mouth,
47:26
Speaker 1: and for some reason, one of the buds had fallen off,
47:28
Speaker 1: and the wire stabbed me and punctured the back of
47:31
Speaker 1: my throat, and I had to continue doing the play,
47:33
Speaker 1: and I had a mouthful of blood and I was
47:35
Speaker 1: holy cow. A mouthful of blood is the name of
47:38
Speaker 1: something that's a song punk band. It doesn't know. I
47:41
Speaker 1: think it exists. It does exist. You're right, you're right.
47:44
Speaker 1: It's like smiling through a mouthful of blood or laughing
47:48
Speaker 1: with a mouth I can't remember it some god things.
47:50
Speaker 1: But I have a theory, not a theory. It's just
47:51
Speaker 1: a theory that refers back to the version of Macbeth
47:54
Speaker 1: that I have the most fond memories of, which is
47:56
Speaker 1: the sleep no More thing I talked about. There's no
47:58
Speaker 1: dialogue in this version of McBeth at all. Uh, it's
48:02
Speaker 1: just pantomimeed and like you know act, you know, dance
48:05
Speaker 1: and stuff, and um, it's all you know the action.
48:07
Speaker 1: You're aware of it from being familiar with the play.
48:09
Speaker 1: But they don't speak, so no wonder. It has such
48:12
Speaker 1: a long and illustrious run and they shut it down,
48:15
Speaker 1: um for COVID, But it is back. The company is
48:18
Speaker 1: called Punch Drunk. I think that does it, and they
48:21
Speaker 1: use some other kind of immersive theater things, and I
48:23
Speaker 1: just can't speak highly enough of it. If you're in
48:25
Speaker 1: New York and it's a little pricey but absolutely worth
48:28
Speaker 1: your time, it's like the coolest, most arts haunted house
48:32
Speaker 1: that you'll ever set foot in. It's for four and
48:34
Speaker 1: a half hour experience in the time just zips by.
48:37
Speaker 1: It's well worth it. Yeah, I I have a I
48:39
Speaker 1: have a question for you. Will This is just is
48:42
Speaker 1: probably gonna be on the mind of a lot of
48:44
Speaker 1: our fellow listeners today. Does the make Beth curse apply
48:49
Speaker 1: specifically to the to the show Macbeth or is it
48:55
Speaker 1: just for bolting to say the M word for any
48:58
Speaker 1: product like have p will die during west Side Story
49:02
Speaker 1: because someone with an ax to grind ran in it
49:05
Speaker 1: was like and then ran back right. So I think
49:09
Speaker 1: if yeah, if you get more granular with it, I'm
49:11
Speaker 1: sure every fress been out there has some story to
49:15
Speaker 1: share about somebody saying it in a theater and then
49:19
Speaker 1: something going horribly awry. Um, so yeah, it's it's uh.
49:25
Speaker 1: It does echo out and it reverberates out into any
49:29
Speaker 1: production anything happening in a theater. If you are to
49:33
Speaker 1: utter the name of that play, that character and not
49:36
Speaker 1: cleanse yourself, you are opening yourselves up to the curse.
49:41
Speaker 1: Or actors are just clumsy and uncoordinated. Yes, yes, And
49:46
Speaker 1: which which remains the truest of the of the two possibilities?
49:52
Speaker 1: We leave that to you. I think I don't know
49:55
Speaker 1: about you guys, but I've gotta go run outside real quick.
49:58
Speaker 1: It's been around three times. Curse loudly and spitted some
50:02
Speaker 1: stuff just to make sure the weekend goes as planned.
50:06
Speaker 1: In the meantime, what an amazing story, will And thank
50:09
Speaker 1: you so much for coming on the show today. Could
50:13
Speaker 1: you tell us a little bit more about where people
50:16
Speaker 1: can find your work and uh, maybe a little bit
50:19
Speaker 1: about what we meant when we said award winning play. Right, Yeah, Well,
50:25
Speaker 1: thank you so much for having me. It's been it's
50:27
Speaker 1: been a pleasure. Um. But yeah, you can listen to
50:30
Speaker 1: my podcast hashtag Storytime wherever you get your podcasts, and
50:34
Speaker 1: definitely check out this season because, as we mentioned at
50:36
Speaker 1: the top, Bends on it, Nol's on it, any Reese,
50:38
Speaker 1: Lauren Foke, Obam, Mike John's a lot of great stories
50:41
Speaker 1: on there. And then I, Yeah, I'm a huge theater
50:44
Speaker 1: lover and I live in l A. And I'm I'm
50:45
Speaker 1: always trying to involve myself in in different productions out here,
50:50
Speaker 1: whether they want me or not. But I recently, uh
50:53
Speaker 1: recently participated in a short play festival called the brisk Festival,
50:58
Speaker 1: and uh I wrote and to a short play called
51:01
Speaker 1: The Mating Ritual of Snails and it one the best
51:04
Speaker 1: play and I won Best Director or something that's awesome.
51:08
Speaker 1: Is it just a bunch of snails just kind of
51:09
Speaker 1: grinding against each other in slow motion like in Microcosmos?
51:12
Speaker 1: More and more or less, it's two It's about two
51:15
Speaker 1: snails meeting and going through their very interesting, unique mating process.
51:21
Speaker 1: Do you know what I'm referring to? The film Microcosmos
51:25
Speaker 1: like a French nature documentary thing. It's the same people
51:28
Speaker 1: that did Wing Migration, So it was like a very
51:30
Speaker 1: early kind of high art kind of nature documentary. And
51:33
Speaker 1: there's one sequence where it's just these two snails just
51:37
Speaker 1: grinding their torsos against each other. It looks like a
51:40
Speaker 1: thing that you can probably picture, uh, and the opera,
51:43
Speaker 1: gorgeous opera aria playing in the background. And it's the
51:46
Speaker 1: most hilarious and erotic thing that I've ever seen. And
51:50
Speaker 1: it's a kids movie. You've probably seen the cover of it.
51:52
Speaker 1: They didn't market it very well. Back when blockbushes a thing,
51:55
Speaker 1: it's like a grasshopper wearing sunglasses on the cover and
51:59
Speaker 1: it's called microcos So it's actually a artsy kind of
52:02
Speaker 1: French um super what's the word. Yeah, micro kind of
52:06
Speaker 1: like nature documentary about bugs and snails and things. I'm
52:10
Speaker 1: gonna get into that this weekend. But yeah, I mean
52:13
Speaker 1: snails they do they make love for twelve hours? Yeah,
52:17
Speaker 1: I mean that's where Sting picked it up. I heard
52:19
Speaker 1: Sting of the animal format but hilarious and ironic. I
52:23
Speaker 1: had a few exes. You're described me that way? Uh
52:28
Speaker 1: what better way? In thanks? Yeah? Well, thank you so much.
52:31
Speaker 1: Do check out story Time, not just the episodes dull
52:34
Speaker 1: and iron though, uh thill. We hope you enjoy those
52:37
Speaker 1: as well. Of course, thanks as always to our own
52:42
Speaker 1: kind of our our own. Kenneth brought up the one
52:45
Speaker 1: and only Mr Max Williams. Max, Thanks for classic up
52:48
Speaker 1: the show. Quick kiss to the sky from Max. Thanks
52:51
Speaker 1: also to Alex Williams who composed this amazing soundtrack playing
52:55
Speaker 1: this out NOL. Thank you to you. I once again,
52:58
Speaker 1: I haven't said this on air, and I'm still trying
53:01
Speaker 1: to convince you to take an improv class with me.
53:03
Speaker 1: I think we would have so much. Oh dude. After
53:05
Speaker 1: this next COVID wave, I was super down. It's something
53:09
Speaker 1: that always terrified me in a previous life, but now
53:12
Speaker 1: I'm like, you know what, why not? You only live
53:14
Speaker 1: once unless you flat through the eye during improv. That
53:17
Speaker 1: could happen. Someone could point wildly, you know, and actually
53:21
Speaker 1: go too far and just jam you right in the
53:23
Speaker 1: eyeball or the throat. Lots of dangerous things can happen
53:26
Speaker 1: in the theater. But you know what, it's all for
53:28
Speaker 1: love of of the craft. He'll fly up for the
53:32
Speaker 1: improv class. Hey, alright, let's do it. It's settled. We'll
53:36
Speaker 1: see you next time, Foix. For more podcasts for my
53:46
Speaker 1: Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast,
53:48
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.