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North Wales Matters - Hate Crime · North Wales Matters with Andy Dunbobbin

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  Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to North Wales Matters. I'm Andy Dunbobbin,
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  Speaker 1: Police and Crime Commissioner for North Wales and I'm delighted
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  Speaker 1: to be bringing you this special episode recorded live at
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  Speaker 1: our All for One 26 conference during National Hate Crime
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  Speaker 1: Awareness Week. Today's event brings partners from across North Wales
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  Speaker 1: who share a commitment to tackle hate crime, support victims
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  Speaker 1: and build stronger, more resilient communities. Hate crime has no
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  Speaker 1: place in our society. It affects individuals, families and communities,
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  Speaker 1: often having a devastating impact and targeted simply because of
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  Speaker 1: who they are or who they perceive to be. Throughout
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  Speaker 1: this conference we've been exploring how we can work together
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  Speaker 1: to challenge prejudice, improve reporting, support victims and ensure that
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  Speaker 1: everyone feels safe and respected within North Wales. For this
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  Speaker 1: episode we'll be focusing on the North Wales picture. What
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  Speaker 1: does hate crime look like across the region? What challenges
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  Speaker 1: do communities face and what support is available? And more importantly,
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  Speaker 1: what can we do to create communities where hate and
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  Speaker 1: discrimination are never tolerated? To answer those questions, we're joined
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  Speaker 1: by an excellent panel of guests who will share their insights,
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  Speaker 1: experiences and perspectives on the challenges we face, the progress
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  Speaker 1: that's being made and the collective action needed to ensure
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  Speaker 1: North Wales remains a welcoming and inclusive place for everyone.
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  Speaker 1: Let's get started.
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  Speaker 2: My first question is for you, Becca. Recently, as we've
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  Speaker 2: seen both online and offline forms of hate crime evolve rapidly,
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  Speaker 2: what are the trends that you're most concerned.
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  Speaker 3: About at the moment?
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  Speaker 2: And what do the communities need to understand about these
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  Speaker 2: changing incidents? And are there any barriers that you're seeing
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  Speaker 2: to the.
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  Speaker 4: Reporting of such cases?
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  Speaker 5: Yeah, so the questions about that kind of you know,
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  Speaker 5: the LinkedIn online, you know, and offline harm. And I think,
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  Speaker 5: you know, people are quite tuned into.
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  Speaker 6: The online world right now, aren't they?
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  Speaker 5: But that also means that people that are experiencing hate
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  Speaker 5: also understand the limitations, you know, to it. The infrastructure
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  Speaker 5: and the legislation hasn't really caught up with the pace
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  Speaker 5: that we've been kind of embracing social media and.
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  Speaker 6: The online world.
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  Speaker 5: Now, when I started in the service, about seven years ago,
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  Speaker 5: it feels like a very, very long time now, we
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  Speaker 5: were still kind of looking at online hate and advising
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  Speaker 5: victims to switch off their phones, to take a bit
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  Speaker 5: of a break from it. But that's not the case anymore,
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  Speaker 5: because so much of our lives are entrenched in using
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  Speaker 5: our smart devices. We don't even know what day our
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  Speaker 5: bins go out these days, unless you're on your council website,
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  Speaker 5: kind of looking at, you know, looking at Apple, confirming
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  Speaker 5: in your neighbor WhatsApp group, you know, or like me,
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  Speaker 5: who was spying on which neighbor puts them out first. But,
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  Speaker 5: you know, our lives are really entrenched in, you know,
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  Speaker 5: in modern devices now and kind of, you know, the
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  Speaker 5: smart world. And this is a group of people that
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  Speaker 5: we find are least likely to report. at all because
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  Speaker 5: they know the infrastructure is weak, because they know the
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  Speaker 5: legislation is weak, and because they know that it is
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  Speaker 5: going to take something really big and really tangible for
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  Speaker 5: the criminal justice system to kind of catch up and
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  Speaker 5: address it. Also, the kind of impact that we're seeing,
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  Speaker 5: Wayne mentioned the impact as well, is that we're seeing
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  Speaker 5: an increase of doxing, which is where people are personally
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  Speaker 5: targeted because of their relationship with the world in some way,
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  Speaker 5: usually because they're standing up against racism about anti-migration rhetoric, etc.
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  Speaker 5: And the counteract of this, unfortunately, is that we're seeing
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  Speaker 5: that reduction in people making those counter and pro actions
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  Speaker 5: against hate. It's very important in social media that we
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  Speaker 5: see that balance between the hate and those kind of
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  Speaker 5: counter and pro narratives. But more and more people are
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  Speaker 5: coming back from those because they're afraid of being exposed.
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  Speaker 5: So I think in terms of kind of online hate
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  Speaker 5: and the links to offline, they're very clear.
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  Speaker 4: We know they exist.
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  Speaker 5: We've seen stuff happen online and then it's kind of
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  Speaker 5: turned up physically in our neighbourhoods. But also I think
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  Speaker 5: it builds that bit more mistrust, I think, with people
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  Speaker 5: because they don't trust platforms to police themselves. They know
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  Speaker 5: that local policing may be limited in this area. So
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  Speaker 5: this is an area where we see more under-reporting. But
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  Speaker 5: I think as a society, we're seeing that kind of
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  Speaker 5: reaction as well, where more and more people are pulling
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  Speaker 5: back from providing those counter and pro-narratives as well that
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  Speaker 5: we really desperately need at the moment to counter hate.
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  Speaker 7: I would want to say something about anti-racism and make
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  Speaker 7: you people sort of understand what it is generally. There
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  Speaker 7: is an illustration that is given by Professor Obuna who
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  Speaker 7: led the anti-racism action plan work in Wales.
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  Speaker 4: And what he says usually is that.
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  Speaker 7: If you take a linear, like a line, you have
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  Speaker 7: two ends of it with one end where you find
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  Speaker 7: people that are ignorant, about racism. On the other end,
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  Speaker 7: you have people that are racist. But in the middle,
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  Speaker 7: there are so many people, many of us in the middle,
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  Speaker 7: that can be bothered or don't think it's our responsibility
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  Speaker 7: to do anything about it. So what the Welsh government
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  Speaker 7: is trying to do with the anti-racist action plan is
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  Speaker 7: to move as many people in the middle to be anti-racist.
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  Speaker 7: What does it mean to be anti-racist? It's to speak
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  Speaker 7: up when something is wrong. I'm using race, sorry, I
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  Speaker 7: should have warned you, I'm using race more specifically as
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  Speaker 7: one of the hate crimes because this is where my
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  Speaker 7: strength is. It's not because the other ones are less important.
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  Speaker 7: You want many people to be anti-racist. So in your workplace,
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  Speaker 7: you should be able to speak up When you're on
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  Speaker 7: public transport and you see a racist.
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  Speaker 4: Act, you should say no. You should condemn it.
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  Speaker 7: And racists and bullies and people that commit hate crimes,
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  Speaker 7: they hate other people telling them no, it's not right,
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  Speaker 7: especially if it's not that person. The moment you have
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  Speaker 7: someone speak up and say, oh, this is a bad behavior,
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  Speaker 7: you either embarrass them or they shrink and become small.
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  Speaker 4: So education, speaking up, these are very important.
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  Speaker 3: Okay, Gareth Hall, Senior Cohesion Officer. Thank you very much
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  Speaker 3: for joining us today.
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  Speaker 6: How are you feeling?
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  Speaker 8: Good, very glad to be here. Great to see an audience,
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  Speaker 8: a diverse audience, a lot of our working partners, a
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  Speaker 8: lot of familiar faces. And yeah, a great opportunity for
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  Speaker 8: a substantive conversation around.
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  Speaker 6: Community cohesion, hate crime, how we can work together.
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  Speaker 5: Exactly.
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  Speaker 3: And I was watching your presentation, of course, and it's
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  Speaker 3: very clear just how passionate you are really about your work.
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  Speaker 6: Absolutely.
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  Speaker 8: I think community cohesion, it's one of those phrases that
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  Speaker 8: sometimes people give you a bit of a blank look.
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  Speaker 4: Oh, what's that?
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  Speaker 6: But it really is something that involves us all.
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  Speaker 8: It's the day-to-day business of how we live and how
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  Speaker 8: we live well together. And I think that's really, really
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  Speaker 8: important in the context of a conversation about hate crime,
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  Speaker 8: because very often we're focused on how to respond to
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  Speaker 8: an incident after it's happened, how to deal with a
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  Speaker 8: problem that we're confronted by.
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  Speaker 6: But where I.
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  Speaker 8: Think a day like today is so important for us
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  Speaker 8: as a cohesion team is entering into that conversation to say,
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  Speaker 8: what can we do on a day to day basis
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  Speaker 8: to bring our communities closer together, to find those inclusive spaces,
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  Speaker 8: to give people an opportunity to find common ground so
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  Speaker 8: that the reasons why we see hate.
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  Speaker 6: Crime occurring, that we see those reasons start to diminish.
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  Speaker 8: And I think that's a conversation that I'm really passionate
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  Speaker 8: about because over the last seven years, we've seen examples
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  Speaker 8: of communities coming together We've seen preconceived notions of difference
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  Speaker 8: being challenged, not by people being lectured to, not by
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  Speaker 8: people being told that what they were thinking was bad
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  Speaker 8: or wrong, just giving people.
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  Speaker 6: An opportunity to share a space and notice what they
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  Speaker 6: have in common. That's really powerful. And yeah, that's something
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  Speaker 6: we're really passionate about. That's brilliant.
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  Speaker 3: What do you think of the barriers to making sure
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  Speaker 3: people are cohesive and, you know, more encouraging to be
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  Speaker 3: in different spaces?
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  Speaker 6: What do you think those barriers are?
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  Speaker 8: Well, I think it begins with those preconceived notions. This
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  Speaker 8: idea of, oh, I won't get along with you because
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  Speaker 8: I don't think we have anything in common. And 99
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  Speaker 8: times out of 100, that's based on a perception, an
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  Speaker 8: idea that isn't grounded in reality. You know, I haven't
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  Speaker 8: sat down with you. I haven't talked to you. I
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  Speaker 8: haven't gotten to know you. You know, it's a preconceived
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  Speaker 8: notion that I have in my head.
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  Speaker 6: And very often we make.
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  Speaker 8: The mistake of, trying to challenge people on that, to say, oh, no,
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  Speaker 8: you're wrong to think that way.
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  Speaker 6: You know, we'd get along fantastically well.
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  Speaker 8: But actually just providing a space where people can come together,
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  Speaker 8: where there's not any expectation, there's not any kind of
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  Speaker 8: politically heavy narrative there. It's just a space where people
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  Speaker 8: can enjoy, hopefully, a positive experience. And as a cohesion team,
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  Speaker 8: what we always look for is where can we find
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  Speaker 8: that positivity?
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  Speaker 6: What brings people together? And we always look to food. sport, music, art.
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  Speaker 8: We look at what people enjoy doing together. And then
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  Speaker 8: we look to find opportunities where if someone's willing to step.
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  Speaker 6: Out of their social circle because they want to enjoy
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  Speaker 6: that experience, who else can they enjoy it with?
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  Speaker 8: And then what we observe happening in that situation is
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  Speaker 8: not a conversation that is managed, but a conversation that
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  Speaker 8: happens organically. People start rubbing shoulders, they say hello, they
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  Speaker 8: strike up a conversation, and we start to see that
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  Speaker 8: coming together. For me, the best part about community cohesion
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  Speaker 8: is that the hardest part is engineering the opportunity. Once
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  Speaker 8: you get people together, this wonderful, natural, organic thing happens.
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  Speaker 8: People achieve that cohesion by themselves.
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  Speaker 1: Thank you to all our panellists for joining us and
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  Speaker 1: sharing their perspectives. on hate crime here in North Wales.
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  Speaker 1: Today's discussion has highlighted the importance of standing together to
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  Speaker 1: challenge prejudice, support victims, and create communities where everyone feels
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  Speaker 1: safe and respected. If you've been affected by hate crime,
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  Speaker 1: remember that support is available. Reporting incidents and having the
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  Speaker 1: confidence to come forward is hugely important. I'm Andy Dunbobbin,
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  Speaker 1: Police and Crime Commissioner for North Wales. Thanks for listening
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  Speaker 1: to this special edition of North Wales Matters. Record it
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  Speaker 1: at our All for One Conference 2026. Hope to see
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  Speaker 1: you all soon. Diolch yn fawr.