Latest / Daniel and Kelly’s Extraordinary Universe / What hidden symmetry is controlling the Universe?

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What hidden symmetry is controlling the Universe? · Daniel and Kelly’s Extraordinary Universe

0:01
Speaker 1: Hey, it's Jorhan Daniel here and we want to tell
0:03
Speaker 1: you about our new book. It's called Frequently Asked Questions
0:06
Speaker 1: about the Universe because you have questions about the universe,
0:09
Speaker 1: and so we decided to write a book all about them.
0:12
Speaker 1: We talk about your questions, we give some answers, we
0:14
Speaker 1: make a bunch of silly jokes as usual, and we
0:17
Speaker 1: tackle all kinds of questions, including what happens if I
0:20
Speaker 1: fall into a black hole? Or is there another version
0:22
Speaker 1: of you out there that's right? Like usual, we tackle
0:25
Speaker 1: the deepest, darkest, biggest, craziest questions about this incredible cosmos.
0:29
Speaker 1: If you want to support the podcast, please get the
0:31
Speaker 1: book and get a copy not just for yourself, but
0:34
Speaker 1: you know, for your nieces and nephews, cousins, friends, parents, dogs, hamsters,
0:39
Speaker 1: and for the aliens. So get your copy of Frequently
0:42
Speaker 1: Asked Questions about the Universe is available for pre order now,
0:46
Speaker 1: coming out November two. You can find more details at
0:49
Speaker 1: the book's website, Universe f a Q dot com. Thanks
0:53
Speaker 1: for your support, and if you have a hamster that
0:55
Speaker 1: can read, please let us know. We'd love to have
0:57
Speaker 1: them on the podcast. Hey, Daniel, I have a complaint
1:10
Speaker 1: to file about physics. Who do I talk to? Oh,
1:13
Speaker 1: you can lay it on me. I'll pass it on
1:15
Speaker 1: to the right people. All right, you're the unbutsman for
1:17
Speaker 1: all the physics. It's good to know, alright. So I
1:20
Speaker 1: feel like physics it's pretty good about answering how questions?
1:24
Speaker 1: You mean, like how old is the universe? Or how
1:27
Speaker 1: big is it? Yeah? Just like that? All right, Well
1:29
Speaker 1: that sounds pretty good. What's your complaint? Well, I feel
1:31
Speaker 1: like the real questions that humanity wants to know are
1:34
Speaker 1: the why questions, you know, like why do we have
1:36
Speaker 1: this universe? Why is it like this? And not like that.
1:39
Speaker 1: You know, I'm gonna have to direct you, I think,
1:41
Speaker 1: to the philosophy department. Oh, man, you're gonna pass the buck. Well,
1:45
Speaker 1: I don't know how else to answer a why question. Yeah,
1:49
Speaker 1: and I don't know why I ask you these questions
1:51
Speaker 1: in the first place. You ask a meta question, you
1:53
Speaker 1: get sent to the metaphysics department, the meta unbutsman. Hi
2:12
Speaker 1: am or Hey, I'm a cartoonists and the creator of
2:14
Speaker 1: PhD comments. Hi. I'm Daniel. I'm a particle physicist and
2:18
Speaker 1: a professor at U C Irvine, where I actually am
2:21
Speaker 1: also a member of the philosophy department. Oh are you
2:23
Speaker 1: really so you're a card caring philosopher? Technically I am so.
2:28
Speaker 1: I have no education in philosophy. I just started showing
2:31
Speaker 1: up at the philosophy of science seminars and eventually they
2:33
Speaker 1: were like, who are you? And then they give me
2:35
Speaker 1: a joint appointment. I guess they let anyone in that hand, like,
2:40
Speaker 1: there's not that much of a demand for philosophy membership. Well,
2:43
Speaker 1: I think joint appointments are free, so yes, the bar
2:45
Speaker 1: is not that high. Nice. Do you have to teach
2:47
Speaker 1: classes in philosophy? I am not qualified to teach classes
2:50
Speaker 1: in philosophy. Well, I feel like physics, you know, asked
2:53
Speaker 1: a lot of very philosophical questions or questions that border
2:56
Speaker 1: on philosophy, right, like why is the universe like this?
2:59
Speaker 1: Or why do we have a universe? Right? Like you're
3:03
Speaker 1: asking these questions as physicists, right, Yeah, A lot of
3:06
Speaker 1: the answers we get to questions in physics do have
3:09
Speaker 1: big philosophical implications, and I think it's important. That's why
3:13
Speaker 1: I started going to these seminars to understand like what
3:15
Speaker 1: if we discover this or what if we discover that
3:17
Speaker 1: what does it really mean? Man, Physics can tell you
3:20
Speaker 1: what's going on, but only philosophy can tell you what
3:22
Speaker 1: it means. Well, it's kind of a layer thing, right
3:24
Speaker 1: because you can ask like why does the apple fall
3:26
Speaker 1: from the tree and you can say, well, it's gravity.
3:29
Speaker 1: But you know, once you start dig getting deeper, like
3:31
Speaker 1: why do we have gravity, then it starts to get philosophical. Yeah,
3:35
Speaker 1: and then you can ask like what kind of answer
3:37
Speaker 1: will satisfy your question? And then you have a philosophical
3:39
Speaker 1: answer about philosophical questions, yeah, or like why have philosophical
3:43
Speaker 1: answers philosophy of philosophy? Wow, you can get a h
3:47
Speaker 1: and philosophy. I guess it's the start of the Endless sleep.
3:50
Speaker 1: But anyways, welcome to our podcast Daniel and Jorge Explain
3:53
Speaker 1: the Universe, a production of I Heart Radio in which
3:55
Speaker 1: we go meta and meta meta about the nature of
3:58
Speaker 1: the universe. We ask all the questions about how the
4:02
Speaker 1: universe is, and then we also ask the questions about
4:04
Speaker 1: why it is and what that means. Because we don't
4:07
Speaker 1: just want a description of the universe, we want an
4:10
Speaker 1: understanding of the universe. We want to know why the
4:13
Speaker 1: universe is this way and not any other way, or
4:16
Speaker 1: maybe if it could have been that other way. We
4:19
Speaker 1: seek not just to describe but also to explain, and
4:22
Speaker 1: that's what we're doing here, exploring the universe and explaining
4:25
Speaker 1: it to you. Yeah, because it is a big universe
4:27
Speaker 1: and one of which you can ask a lot of questions.
4:30
Speaker 1: Because it is not just kind of a big universe
4:34
Speaker 1: and a pretty mysterious universe, but it's also kind of
4:37
Speaker 1: a beautiful universe. It is, in fact a beautiful universe,
4:40
Speaker 1: not just in the vistas that we partake in in
4:43
Speaker 1: the wonderful night skies, but also in the mechanisms for
4:46
Speaker 1: how it works. Sometimes you look at the mathematics for
4:49
Speaker 1: the way things work at the quantum level and you're like, wow,
4:52
Speaker 1: that's pretty neat. I couldn't have designed the universe so
4:55
Speaker 1: beautiful or so clever. It does feel sometimes like we
4:58
Speaker 1: are uncovering a w of great beauty. Yeah, because the
5:02
Speaker 1: universe does seem to have rules, right, Like it's it's
5:05
Speaker 1: not a willy nearly universe where anything can happen. It
5:07
Speaker 1: seems to have rules and the structure to it. And
5:10
Speaker 1: as you say, it sort of feels clever in a
5:13
Speaker 1: way can you talk about that? Yeah, it's just maybe
5:15
Speaker 1: our appreciation is just sort of subjective. But one of
5:18
Speaker 1: the most incredible things we've discovered is that the universe
5:20
Speaker 1: can be described in terms of mathematical laws. Like why
5:24
Speaker 1: do we even think that it was possible to write
5:26
Speaker 1: down equations that predict what will happen in our universe
5:30
Speaker 1: and that only some equations will work, right, Like, it's
5:33
Speaker 1: sort of like you can't just write down any random
5:35
Speaker 1: equation and say that's physics. It's math, but it's not
5:37
Speaker 1: necessarily physics, the same way you can't just like write
5:39
Speaker 1: down a string of words and say here's my novel. Right,
5:42
Speaker 1: Not every string of words is a novel. So we
5:45
Speaker 1: use math as a language to express physics. But then
5:47
Speaker 1: you can also look at that math and say, wow,
5:49
Speaker 1: that really clicks together nicely, or this makes a lot
5:52
Speaker 1: of sense, or this tells you something about the nature
5:55
Speaker 1: the universe because it uses this math and not that
5:58
Speaker 1: other kind of math. And then you get into the
6:00
Speaker 1: lossopy questions like what does it mean that we have
6:02
Speaker 1: a universe that's like this and not like that? Right,
6:04
Speaker 1: that's pretty interesting. The idea that you know, like all
6:07
Speaker 1: physics is math, but not all math is physics, like
6:10
Speaker 1: not all possible equations have a physical reality to them. Absolutely,
6:16
Speaker 1: you can describe lots of hypothetical universes out there using mathematics,
6:20
Speaker 1: but they don't necessarily describe the universe we live in.
6:23
Speaker 1: And you know, there are lots of beautiful theories about
6:26
Speaker 1: physics that were mathematically really nice but just didn't describe
6:29
Speaker 1: our universe, and so they ended up like tossed in
6:32
Speaker 1: the dustbin of physics history. Man, you have a reject
6:36
Speaker 1: pile for beautiful theory. We do because the universe gets
6:39
Speaker 1: to say what the universe chooses, and sometimes it's a
6:41
Speaker 1: little surprising and a little bit messy, but often we
6:44
Speaker 1: can find some elegance, some nice description of it that
6:47
Speaker 1: reveals something about the universe. And then you go off
6:49
Speaker 1: and chew and you're like, that's really interesting that the
6:51
Speaker 1: universe has this structure. What does that mean about It's
6:55
Speaker 1: like fundamental nature. One of my favorite examples is very simple.
6:58
Speaker 1: It just comes from conservation shi of momentum, Like this
7:01
Speaker 1: is something we observe in the universe. We notice that
7:04
Speaker 1: if you bang two rocks together that at the end
7:06
Speaker 1: you have the same amount of momentum as you did
7:08
Speaker 1: in the beginning. It's changed direction a little bit, perhaps,
7:11
Speaker 1: but all the momentum is the same. It's something we
7:13
Speaker 1: observe and you can ask, like, well, why is that?
7:16
Speaker 1: Why is momentum conserved? And we have this deep theory
7:18
Speaker 1: of physics that tells us why, But it just brings
7:21
Speaker 1: up more questions. It turns out that momentum is conserved
7:24
Speaker 1: because space is uniform, because you can do the same
7:27
Speaker 1: experiment here and somewhere else and on Jupiter and you
7:30
Speaker 1: should get the same answer. One thing leads to the other,
7:33
Speaker 1: because space is uniform, momentum is conserved. But then that
7:37
Speaker 1: just brings up the question like, well, why is space uniform?
7:39
Speaker 1: Why is it true that you can do the same
7:42
Speaker 1: experiment here or an Alpha Centauri and you should get
7:44
Speaker 1: the same answers? Why the laws of physics the same
7:47
Speaker 1: everywhere in space? But that seems to be the way
7:50
Speaker 1: our universe is, and that's the way it is, and
7:53
Speaker 1: it's also sort of a good thing that it is, right,
7:55
Speaker 1: Like it would be weird or could you even have
7:57
Speaker 1: a functioning universe if things were at all smooth and
8:00
Speaker 1: working the same way everywhere, Like wouldn't it be just
8:03
Speaker 1: complete chaos. Well, that is the job of science fiction authors,
8:07
Speaker 1: right to imagine different universes and like, what would it
8:09
Speaker 1: be like to live in that universe? To be a
8:11
Speaker 1: scientist in that universe and discover that you lived in
8:14
Speaker 1: that universe instead of this one? What stories could you
8:17
Speaker 1: tell in that universe? So I think there are probably
8:19
Speaker 1: very different physical consequences of living in the universe like
8:22
Speaker 1: that where the laws of physics change with space or
8:25
Speaker 1: with time. But this is the one that we live in.
8:27
Speaker 1: I think you could imagine ways to live and waves
8:30
Speaker 1: life might even arise, but it would be vastly different
8:33
Speaker 1: from the universe that we know. Well, now you're giving
8:35
Speaker 1: me kind of fear of missing out. What if there's
8:38
Speaker 1: like a better part of the universe that we're not
8:40
Speaker 1: living in, Like what if the grass is really like
8:42
Speaker 1: greener on the other side of the galaxy? Yeah, well,
8:45
Speaker 1: you know, we haven't even discovered how green our grass is.
8:48
Speaker 1: There's so much we don't know about the universe, so
8:50
Speaker 1: much to discover, so many beautiful things that will be
8:54
Speaker 1: revealed in the future that will amaze you. So stick
8:56
Speaker 1: around in this universe. I recommend it. There's a lot
8:59
Speaker 1: of green grass left to cut. It's interesting you said
9:01
Speaker 1: that word earlier. Elegant. You know, I feel like I
9:04
Speaker 1: hear a lot of physicists say that words sometimes, that
9:06
Speaker 1: the universe feels really elegant in the way the rules
9:09
Speaker 1: and the laws work. And that's kind of we'll be
9:12
Speaker 1: talking about today. Is is one of these elegances of
9:15
Speaker 1: the universe. And what we're looking for to describe the
9:18
Speaker 1: universe is a simple description. You know, you could describe
9:22
Speaker 1: the universe. It's just like, here's a list of all
9:24
Speaker 1: the physics experiments anybody's ever done and the results. That's great,
9:28
Speaker 1: that describes the universe, but it doesn't give you any insight.
9:31
Speaker 1: It doesn't give you that like ah ha. That's because
9:33
Speaker 1: they're all following the same rule. And that's the job
9:36
Speaker 1: of physics is to boil down a bunch of experiments,
9:38
Speaker 1: a bunch of observations into a simple rule. And it's
9:42
Speaker 1: when you see that simple rule and you say, wow,
9:44
Speaker 1: it's incredible. That's something that's so simple can have all
9:47
Speaker 1: these consequences. That's when you feel like you're looking at
9:50
Speaker 1: some elegance. You're like understanding a deep truth about the
9:54
Speaker 1: nature of the universe. You've revealed something at a lower
9:57
Speaker 1: level than anybody has seen before. You've peeled back a
10:00
Speaker 1: layer of reality and seeing a simple description that leads
10:03
Speaker 1: to all the incredible complexity that we see in our universe.
10:07
Speaker 1: And I guess you know, one of the things that
10:09
Speaker 1: we feel is simple or a way to give things
10:11
Speaker 1: a certain sense of elegance, is this idea of symmetry.
10:15
Speaker 1: Like if something is symmetric somehow, as humans, it's instills
10:18
Speaker 1: in as a sense of like, oh, that looks perfect
10:20
Speaker 1: or that looks you know, elegant or beautiful. Yeah, and
10:23
Speaker 1: it also sort of feels democratic, Like to me, it's
10:25
Speaker 1: nice that the universe doesn't prefer any location in space
10:29
Speaker 1: and you can do your experiment here or somewhere else
10:31
Speaker 1: and it doesn't make a difference. And you know, there
10:33
Speaker 1: are real consequences to that symmetry. That symmetry means only
10:37
Speaker 1: certain laws of physics are allowed, like in that case,
10:40
Speaker 1: only laws of physics that conserve momentum are allowed. That
10:43
Speaker 1: comes directly from that symmetry, And we discovered lots of
10:46
Speaker 1: these kinds of symmetries. You know. Another one and that
10:48
Speaker 1: people are probably familiar with, is the fact that there's
10:50
Speaker 1: no up or down in space. Like you do your
10:53
Speaker 1: experiment in space, it doesn't really matter which direction your
10:56
Speaker 1: experimental apparatus is pointing. You can spin it in another
10:59
Speaker 1: direction and it should get the same result. That's another symmetry.
11:02
Speaker 1: It says the universe doesn't prefer a direction, not just
11:04
Speaker 1: a location, but a direction. And that gives you another rule.
11:07
Speaker 1: It says that all the laws of physics you right,
11:09
Speaker 1: have to also conserve angular momentum, which is separate from
11:13
Speaker 1: just momentum. Right, This is like how much something is spinning.
11:16
Speaker 1: So every time you discover a symmetry, something that where
11:19
Speaker 1: the universe doesn't care about something or gives you the
11:21
Speaker 1: same answer no matter how you spin or move something
11:24
Speaker 1: that tells you something about the laws of physics that
11:26
Speaker 1: are consistent with that symmetry, the laws of physics that
11:28
Speaker 1: can describe our universe. Yeah, so to be on the podcast,
11:32
Speaker 1: we'll be talking about what hidden symmetry controls the universe.
11:42
Speaker 1: Sounds like a dark conspiracy here, Daniel. There's something hidden
11:46
Speaker 1: controlling things. People smoking cigars, wearing gray suits and deciding
11:51
Speaker 1: what laws of physics can we have or where are
11:54
Speaker 1: you going for some click bait action here. I'm just
11:57
Speaker 1: trying to, you know, get a little bit of reflection
11:59
Speaker 1: from the X file glamour, that's all. Yeah, we should
12:03
Speaker 1: title it like the hidden dark Secret that controls the universe,
12:06
Speaker 1: like to find out more. But yeah, there seems to
12:09
Speaker 1: be a symmetry to the universe. And I feel like,
12:11
Speaker 1: you know, maybe physicists use this word differently than how
12:14
Speaker 1: most people understand it, because I think, you know, to
12:17
Speaker 1: most people's symmetry means like if something is symmetric, it
12:20
Speaker 1: means like it's the same if you look at it,
12:22
Speaker 1: you know, the right half and the left half is
12:24
Speaker 1: the same, or it's like the mirror image of something else,
12:27
Speaker 1: or there's some sort of reflection or some like equality
12:31
Speaker 1: between left and right or two directions. That's kind of
12:33
Speaker 1: I think that's what people mostly think about symmetry. But
12:36
Speaker 1: physicists think of symmetry. It's a kind of a different
12:39
Speaker 1: concept in physics, right, It's about how the mathematical equations
12:43
Speaker 1: stay the same no matter how you transform them. Yeah,
12:46
Speaker 1: but it's also closely related, I think, to people's intuitive
12:49
Speaker 1: sense of symmetry. Like think about the examples you mentioned
12:52
Speaker 1: the sphere for example, you know there's a rotational symmetry.
12:55
Speaker 1: There you have a perfect sphere, you rotate it, you
12:58
Speaker 1: get the same sphere, right, and so nothing has changed
13:01
Speaker 1: for the sphere. It's the same. Or even if you
13:04
Speaker 1: reflect it through a mirror down its middle, you get
13:07
Speaker 1: the same sphere. So there are symmetries in the sphere
13:09
Speaker 1: that wouldn't change how you interact with the sphere. And
13:12
Speaker 1: we talk about the same things in physics. We say, look,
13:15
Speaker 1: if you do this experiment and you just rotate your axes,
13:18
Speaker 1: you make X into Y and Y and z or whatever,
13:20
Speaker 1: you should get the same answer. You know, it's like
13:22
Speaker 1: a spin the experiment or spin the universe. It doesn't matter.
13:26
Speaker 1: You should get the same answer. And so fundamentally, when
13:28
Speaker 1: we talk about symmetry, we mean do you get the
13:31
Speaker 1: same laws of physics if you apply some transformation or
13:35
Speaker 1: some rotation or some change to your axes or how
13:39
Speaker 1: you've defined things. And so that's what we mean when
13:41
Speaker 1: we talk about symmetry right right like like like a
13:44
Speaker 1: butterfly is symmetric, right like the left side and the
13:46
Speaker 1: right side is symmetric. But you can also think of
13:48
Speaker 1: it as like the left wing if I put it
13:50
Speaker 1: through a mirror, it will look just like the right wing. Yeah,
13:53
Speaker 1: you know maybe actually I don't even know. Are all
13:56
Speaker 1: butterflies exactly symmetric? Probably they're not exactly, but in our cartoon, right,
14:00
Speaker 1: assume a symmetric butterfly. Then in that case, yeah, you
14:02
Speaker 1: put it up to a mirror and you see the
14:04
Speaker 1: exactly the same other half, right, and at least it
14:06
Speaker 1: look the same or similar. And so this symmetry idea
14:10
Speaker 1: is very important physics because it almost, like I don't know,
14:13
Speaker 1: defines the laws of physics at the fundamental level, or
14:16
Speaker 1: it's something that's important for them to work, right. Yeah, Well,
14:18
Speaker 1: what happens is that we notice the universe following certain rules.
14:22
Speaker 1: You know, for example, we notice that the universe doesn't
14:25
Speaker 1: create or destroy electric charge, like you have a bunch
14:28
Speaker 1: of it, It doesn't go away, you can't destroy it,
14:31
Speaker 1: and you can't make anymore. Right, And so that's like
14:34
Speaker 1: a rule the universe seems to be following. And then
14:36
Speaker 1: we ask questions like, well, what symmetry gives you that rule?
14:40
Speaker 1: Why can't you create or destroy electric charge? What rule
14:43
Speaker 1: is it fundamentally following? And what we discovered or what
14:46
Speaker 1: eman author discovered about a hundred years ago. Is that
14:49
Speaker 1: every time you see the universe following a rule is
14:51
Speaker 1: because there's a basic symmetry. There's something about the universe
14:55
Speaker 1: that's preserved that has this kind of symmetric property where
14:58
Speaker 1: it doesn't depend on how you been it or reflected
15:01
Speaker 1: or whatever. And that's where these conservation laws come from.
15:04
Speaker 1: So that's very, very powerful. Every time you see a
15:06
Speaker 1: conservation it means you can discover a symmetry of the universe,
15:09
Speaker 1: which tells you something pretty basic about like the very
15:12
Speaker 1: structure of reality, all right, and even the reality in
15:15
Speaker 1: the mirror as well. We'll get into that, but I
15:18
Speaker 1: guess more specifically, it has something to do with something
15:21
Speaker 1: called gauge symmetry, right, g A U G E symmetry. Yeah,
15:26
Speaker 1: all of our laws of physics in the Standard Model
15:28
Speaker 1: are built on this principle of gauge symmetry, and we'll
15:31
Speaker 1: dig into exactly what that means on today's episode. But
15:34
Speaker 1: it turns out to be something really deep about the
15:36
Speaker 1: way particles operate and their relationships with each other. All right,
15:40
Speaker 1: we'll take a dive into that symmetry. But first we
15:42
Speaker 1: were wondering how many people out there no or have
15:45
Speaker 1: heard of this concept of gauge symmetry. So Daniel went
15:48
Speaker 1: out there into the internet to ask people what is
15:51
Speaker 1: gauge symmetry? And so, if you are interested in answering
15:54
Speaker 1: really hard questions about secrets of the universe with no
15:57
Speaker 1: chance to prepare at all, and then have the thousands
16:00
Speaker 1: of people here your answers, please write to us two
16:03
Speaker 1: questions at Daniel and Jorge dot com. It's a lot
16:06
Speaker 1: more fun than it sounds. Think about it for a second.
16:08
Speaker 1: Do you know what gage symmetry is? Here's what people
16:11
Speaker 1: have to say. Gage symmetry is how one would gauge
16:18
Speaker 1: the symmetry between a binary set of stars. And obviously
16:23
Speaker 1: that's incorrect, but there you go. I am not sure
16:26
Speaker 1: what gauge symmetry is, but perhaps it was a very
16:32
Speaker 1: smart scientist person that explain some kind of symmetry in
16:37
Speaker 1: the universe or in physics. Gage symmetry it has something
16:41
Speaker 1: to do with electricity or charges. It doesn't matter what
16:46
Speaker 1: direction in a circuit, or in what direction you look
16:50
Speaker 1: at particles or whatever, like the charters are symmetrical in
16:55
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter if there's a pleasure of minus. From
16:57
Speaker 1: my point of view, gage symmetry. Well, it happened to me,
17:02
Speaker 1: was I when my instrument cluster from my truck broke
17:11
Speaker 1: down and all the gorges were at zero, so they
17:16
Speaker 1: were symmetric. So this is gage symmetry from my point
17:21
Speaker 1: of view. Let's break it down. Gauge symmetry is when
17:24
Speaker 1: you make a transformation on a field which turns one
17:27
Speaker 1: particle into a different one, maintaining, obviously, because it's symmetric,
17:31
Speaker 1: maintaining some properties of that particle. I think, if I
17:35
Speaker 1: recall correctly, gauge is basically measurements, So gauge symmetry might
17:40
Speaker 1: be that one measurement in one unit basically described in
17:46
Speaker 1: a different unit. Possibly. Well, I guess the gauge symmetry
17:50
Speaker 1: is when my front tire and my rear tire of
17:54
Speaker 1: my bicycle show the same amount of pressure. Then I
17:58
Speaker 1: would have two gauges and they are symmetric. Otherwise I
18:02
Speaker 1: have no idea. All right, it's it seems to be
18:06
Speaker 1: um kind of a mystery to our listeners. The secret
18:10
Speaker 1: Cabal has done a good job of hiding itself. It's
18:14
Speaker 1: really hidden. Well, I guess it's a weird word because
18:18
Speaker 1: we in general we use the word gauge to like
18:21
Speaker 1: gauge something right, to like measure something like a pressure
18:23
Speaker 1: gauge is something that tells you how much pressure is
18:25
Speaker 1: in your bicycle tires, or your fuel gauge tells you
18:29
Speaker 1: how much fuel you have in your car. And so
18:31
Speaker 1: what does it mean then to have gauge symmetry in
18:35
Speaker 1: your equations of physics? So it comes from the era
18:37
Speaker 1: of the railroads, when people were still laying down a
18:40
Speaker 1: bunch of new tracks and they have to decide, like
18:42
Speaker 1: how far apart you make the tracks? Do you make
18:45
Speaker 1: them one meter apart or a meter and a half
18:46
Speaker 1: or whatever, And everybody had like different choices, and that
18:49
Speaker 1: makes them incompatible. Right, you can't drive your train if
18:52
Speaker 1: the gauge is wrong, and so somebody just has to
18:54
Speaker 1: make a choice, and that doesn't really matter. You can
18:56
Speaker 1: still build railroads if there are a meter apart or
18:59
Speaker 1: half a meter apart or or whatever. It still works.
19:01
Speaker 1: You just gotta make a choice, And so that arises
19:04
Speaker 1: sometimes in physics where there's like an arbitrary choice you
19:07
Speaker 1: have to make, like where do you call height equal
19:10
Speaker 1: zero or where do you call electrical potential equal zero?
19:13
Speaker 1: And it shouldn't affect how your physics works. It doesn't
19:16
Speaker 1: change anything for how your experiments should work, but you
19:19
Speaker 1: do have to make a choice. It's almost like a
19:21
Speaker 1: scale maybe, or like a starting point. Is that what
19:23
Speaker 1: you mean? Like, you know, like a scale, like is
19:26
Speaker 1: this railroad track, you know, this wide or is it narrower.
19:30
Speaker 1: It's sort of that way in physics where you have
19:32
Speaker 1: to say, all right, what scale are we talking about
19:34
Speaker 1: when we're talking about these electrical fields? Yeah, and you
19:37
Speaker 1: just like you need a number, and so you have
19:39
Speaker 1: to pick a starting point. That's a good way to
19:40
Speaker 1: think about it. But it doesn't affect anything, right, It's
19:42
Speaker 1: just like it seems like an arbitrary choice, you know.
19:44
Speaker 1: One simple example is like think about a book falling
19:47
Speaker 1: off of a shelf and wondering like, well, how fast
19:50
Speaker 1: is it going when it hits the floor? Well, the
19:52
Speaker 1: answer to that question depends on the height of the shelf,
19:54
Speaker 1: because the taller the shelf, the faster it is when
19:56
Speaker 1: it's hitting the floor, and the shorter the shelf, the
19:58
Speaker 1: slower it is when it hits the floor. But it
20:00
Speaker 1: doesn't depend, you know, mostly on how high your shelf
20:04
Speaker 1: is above sea level. You know, so like where do
20:06
Speaker 1: you call high equal zero. Do you say high equal
20:09
Speaker 1: zero a thousand meters below my floor or at my
20:12
Speaker 1: floor or above my floor. You can do all the calculations,
20:14
Speaker 1: you get the same answer no matter where you put
20:17
Speaker 1: like height equal zero in your physics problem. That's just
20:20
Speaker 1: an arbitrary choice, doesn't affect your answer. So that's an
20:23
Speaker 1: example of you know, making a gauge choice. And so
20:26
Speaker 1: this word gauge was chosen to sort of like, you know,
20:29
Speaker 1: harken back to the age of the railroads. But really
20:31
Speaker 1: what it means is an arbitrary parameter of your theory.
20:35
Speaker 1: I see you're saying, physicists pick the word that had
20:37
Speaker 1: nothing to do with the thing. But where the rest
20:42
Speaker 1: of the population is that what you're saying your ancestors
20:45
Speaker 1: should have been called on a hundred years ago when
20:47
Speaker 1: they were naming this thing. I totally agree. It's a
20:49
Speaker 1: ridiculous word, and it's become so important, so we say
20:52
Speaker 1: it all the time now. Gauge theory is everything. The
20:55
Speaker 1: whole standard model of physics is a gauge theory. It's
20:57
Speaker 1: almost like the theory only tells you changes or how
21:02
Speaker 1: it changes from a starting point. Is that kind of
21:04
Speaker 1: what you're saying, But the answer it kind of depends
21:05
Speaker 1: on where you start, right, and it has a you
21:08
Speaker 1: know a lot of history, like electromagnetism, which you know
21:11
Speaker 1: predates the standard model in particle physics by a long time.
21:14
Speaker 1: You know. Maxwell noticed this in his equations. When he
21:16
Speaker 1: was putting together his equations of electromagnetism, he noticed that
21:21
Speaker 1: you could change these. You could like add an arbitrary number,
21:24
Speaker 1: not exactly just a number has to have like a
21:26
Speaker 1: disappearing curl to it. But you could add something to
21:29
Speaker 1: the theory and it wouldn't change any of the predictions.
21:32
Speaker 1: And so you can have basically like different sets of
21:34
Speaker 1: Maxwell's equations, and they call these different gauges, like the
21:37
Speaker 1: Coolum gauge or the Lorenz gauge. People chose different sets
21:41
Speaker 1: of equations. They all make exactly the same predictions. You
21:44
Speaker 1: just like pick one. There's like a whole family of
21:46
Speaker 1: these equations and they all make exactly the same predictions.
21:49
Speaker 1: You can use any of them as long as you're consistent.
21:51
Speaker 1: They're almost like floating theories. I guess you might say, right,
21:55
Speaker 1: And so then there's the idea that within these theories
21:57
Speaker 1: you can have a certain symmetry to them. And so
22:00
Speaker 1: that's what gauge symmetry is. And so let's get into
22:02
Speaker 1: why it's important for our equations of the universe and
22:05
Speaker 1: what does it all mean. Man, But first let's take
22:08
Speaker 1: a quick break. All right, we're talking about the hidden
22:24
Speaker 1: conspiracy here that's controlling everything, Daniel. This is one of
22:28
Speaker 1: those podcasts. That's right. We are bringing you the hard
22:31
Speaker 1: truth today, folks. We are tearing off the veil. We
22:34
Speaker 1: are revealing who's really behind everything. That's right. That's why
22:38
Speaker 1: this podcast is encrypted. Right, we're encrypting this. We're not
22:41
Speaker 1: putting our names on the title of the podcast either, right,
22:44
Speaker 1: that's right. But we are doxing the true masters of
22:47
Speaker 1: the universe today. There you go. That's another title for physicists.
22:51
Speaker 1: You're boxing the universe, you're exposing it. We are exactly
22:56
Speaker 1: we are, all right. So we talked about what gauge
22:59
Speaker 1: theory is. It's like a theory that sort of floats
23:03
Speaker 1: that it tells you how things change, but it sort
23:05
Speaker 1: of depends on where you start them. And so that's
23:08
Speaker 1: kind of what a gage theory is. And so then
23:10
Speaker 1: what's gauge symmetry. So gage symmetry is when you have
23:13
Speaker 1: a theory that has a gauge in it, right, So
23:15
Speaker 1: you can make this choice, but it makes the same
23:17
Speaker 1: prediction regardless of your choice. So, as we talked about electromagnetism,
23:21
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter if you use the Coolum gauge or
23:24
Speaker 1: the Lorenz gauge. You write down different equations, but they
23:27
Speaker 1: predict exactly the same behavior of like electrons moving through
23:30
Speaker 1: fields or magnets being generated. It doesn't matter. So there's
23:33
Speaker 1: a gauge symmetry there. You can pick your gauge, but
23:36
Speaker 1: it doesn't affect the physical predictions. I see. But then
23:40
Speaker 1: how did the name symmetry come from? Because it's not
23:42
Speaker 1: you know, like maybe I would have said it's gauge
23:44
Speaker 1: invariant or gauge doesn't care less about gauge. But the
23:48
Speaker 1: words and metrics to me sort of means like a
23:50
Speaker 1: reflection or like a mirror image. Yeah. Well, you can
23:53
Speaker 1: transform from one gauge to another without changing your predictions,
23:58
Speaker 1: just like you can rotate a sphere through an arbitrary
24:01
Speaker 1: angle without changing the sphere. It's still a sphere. And
24:05
Speaker 1: so a gauge theory is one that you can transform
24:08
Speaker 1: in a certain way from one gauge to another without
24:10
Speaker 1: changing your predictions. And we'll talk about various gauge symmetries today.
24:14
Speaker 1: Some of them are a lot like rotations of a sphere.
24:16
Speaker 1: All right, are we saying that the laws of physics
24:19
Speaker 1: with the universe are gauge symmetric or we noticed that
24:22
Speaker 1: they were gauge symmetric. Yeah, it's really fascinating. The laws
24:25
Speaker 1: of physics of the universe have really weird and surprising
24:28
Speaker 1: gauge symmetries, much more than you would expect, and they
24:32
Speaker 1: have real consequences, Like we talked about, every time there's
24:34
Speaker 1: a symmetry the universe that leads to a conservation law.
24:37
Speaker 1: And so what we can do is we can say, oh,
24:39
Speaker 1: maybe this is why we have conservation of electric charge
24:42
Speaker 1: or conservation to other things. It's because there are these
24:45
Speaker 1: symmetries in the universe. And then we can ask the
24:47
Speaker 1: deep questions like, well, why does the universe have that
24:51
Speaker 1: weird gauge symmetry? What does that mean? This is not
24:53
Speaker 1: just like an arbitrary thing we write down in our
24:56
Speaker 1: rooms with pencil and paper. It's something deep about the
24:58
Speaker 1: universe that respects this symmetry, meaning like if you work
25:02
Speaker 1: at the equations of the universe. You noticed that they're
25:04
Speaker 1: gauge symmetric, and because of those symmetries, then things like
25:08
Speaker 1: conservation a momentum happen, yes, exactly, and so you know,
25:13
Speaker 1: we notice that those things definitely happen in our universe,
25:16
Speaker 1: and we discovered that that means that there must be
25:18
Speaker 1: these symmetries, which is really interesting. All right, well, maybe
25:21
Speaker 1: talk to us a little bit about why it's important
25:24
Speaker 1: and how it has to do with quantum mechanics. Yes,
25:26
Speaker 1: so the standard model of particle physics and quantum mechanics
25:29
Speaker 1: has a lot of gauge symmetries in it, and one
25:32
Speaker 1: that comes from quantum mechanics comes from the wave function.
25:35
Speaker 1: Like we talked to this program before about what happens
25:37
Speaker 1: to little particles and experiments, like what determines whether an
25:40
Speaker 1: electron is going to go left or we're going to
25:42
Speaker 1: go right when it interacts with something else. That's determined
25:45
Speaker 1: by the wave function, which tells it like the various
25:47
Speaker 1: probability to go here or the probability to go there.
25:50
Speaker 1: But there's a little step there which we've glossed over,
25:52
Speaker 1: but it's actually really really important. It's not the wave
25:55
Speaker 1: function itself that tells an electron whether it has a
25:58
Speaker 1: probability to go left or to go right. It's the
26:00
Speaker 1: square of the wave function, the wave function square the
26:03
Speaker 1: way function multiplied by itself, that determines the probability to
26:07
Speaker 1: go left or to go right. And that's because the
26:09
Speaker 1: wave function itself is a complex number, you know, like
26:13
Speaker 1: one plus i or two minus i or whatever, and
26:17
Speaker 1: so it doesn't have real values, so you have to
26:19
Speaker 1: square it to get real values. And there's a symmetry
26:22
Speaker 1: there because it means that the wave function or minus
26:26
Speaker 1: the wave function give exactly the same predictions. So you're saying,
26:29
Speaker 1: like at the fundamental level of particle physics, like particles
26:33
Speaker 1: that make up our universe, they're symmetric, like starting from that,
26:37
Speaker 1: because the wave function that describes it is symmetric in
26:40
Speaker 1: itself in terms of it the probability though right, like
26:43
Speaker 1: the original wave function is not symmetric, but if you
26:45
Speaker 1: square it to get the probability, then it is symmetrica
26:48
Speaker 1: if you take every wave function and you multiply it
26:50
Speaker 1: by minus one, it doesn't change anything in the laws
26:53
Speaker 1: of physics. That's what we're saying. So take the whole
26:55
Speaker 1: universe's wave function, or if you don't believe in that,
26:57
Speaker 1: take the wave function of all the particles, multiple by
27:00
Speaker 1: all of them by the same number. Nothing changes, right,
27:03
Speaker 1: The laws of physics predict exactly the same outcomes. It
27:05
Speaker 1: doesn't matter because it's only sensitive to wave functions squared.
27:09
Speaker 1: So you have a freedom there a choice. Do we
27:11
Speaker 1: start with the positive way functions or do we start
27:13
Speaker 1: with the negative wave functions. It doesn't matter. So there's
27:15
Speaker 1: a symmetry. Really it doesn't matter, like, won't effect at
27:18
Speaker 1: all what it comes out. It won't affect at all
27:20
Speaker 1: because you take it and you square it. All physical
27:23
Speaker 1: predictions depend only on the wave functions squared. All right,
27:26
Speaker 1: So then that means that all particles in the universe
27:29
Speaker 1: are a symmetric What does that mean. It's actually a
27:31
Speaker 1: little bit more general than just multiplying it by minus one.
27:34
Speaker 1: You can actually multiply it by a rotation in the
27:37
Speaker 1: complex plane. And I don't think we should get too
27:39
Speaker 1: far into the math, but just think about it, like,
27:40
Speaker 1: you can rotate these things by an arbitrary angle and
27:43
Speaker 1: you still get the same number. And so that makes
27:45
Speaker 1: a lot of sense if you just do it. To everything.
27:47
Speaker 1: Like you multiply the whole universe by minus one, nothing
27:50
Speaker 1: changes because you've been consistent. You change the way function
27:52
Speaker 1: of my electrons and your electrons and somebody else's electrons.
27:56
Speaker 1: That's called a global symmetry affect the whole universe, And
27:59
Speaker 1: that's not so surprising. But there's something else so the
28:02
Speaker 1: universe has, which is a very different and much much
28:05
Speaker 1: deeper symmetry. It turns out that the universe is symmetric
28:09
Speaker 1: to local gauge invariance, which means you can make this
28:12
Speaker 1: kind of transformation differently at every point in space. You
28:16
Speaker 1: can say like here, I'm gonna multiply all my way
28:18
Speaker 1: functions by plus one. Over in Jupiter, I'm gonna multiply
28:21
Speaker 1: my minus one and an alpha centauri, I'm gonna do
28:24
Speaker 1: something different. So that's a local gauge invariance that says
28:27
Speaker 1: that you can have like an infinite number of these
28:30
Speaker 1: different ideas about gauges. Wait, what what do you mean?
28:34
Speaker 1: But you just told me that it's globally invariant, like
28:36
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter what you do to it anywhere, But
28:39
Speaker 1: now you're saying that it does matter what you do
28:41
Speaker 1: to it locally. Yeah, so global gauge invariance the universe
28:44
Speaker 1: definitely has. But if you want local gauge invariance, right,
28:48
Speaker 1: that's harder. That says, well, now I want to be
28:50
Speaker 1: able to multiply my wave functions by plus one or
28:53
Speaker 1: minus one and do it differently everywhere. And you might
28:55
Speaker 1: immediately say like, okay, well that obviously doesn't work right
28:58
Speaker 1: because you have to be consistent otherwise they like the
29:01
Speaker 1: interference terms of the way functions are not going to
29:03
Speaker 1: come out right. And you're right. The universe by itself,
29:06
Speaker 1: for an electron, doesn't have local gauge invariance because if
29:09
Speaker 1: you change the gauge here and you change it somewhere else,
29:12
Speaker 1: then it will affect the predictions. So the universe, if
29:15
Speaker 1: all you have in it, our electrons, doesn't have local
29:18
Speaker 1: gauge invariants. And then if played a fun game, they said, well,
29:21
Speaker 1: what if we added something What if we added something
29:23
Speaker 1: else to the universe so that we did have local
29:25
Speaker 1: gauge invariance, something that like corrected for that. So take
29:29
Speaker 1: the universe that just has electrons in it and ask
29:32
Speaker 1: for local gauge invariants, and you break that right, like immediately,
29:35
Speaker 1: you don't have local gauge invariants because you're changing electrons
29:38
Speaker 1: differently everywhere. Well, now, if you like add something to
29:41
Speaker 1: the universe to try to fix it, to compensate for
29:44
Speaker 1: this change you've made, you have to add a new piece.
29:47
Speaker 1: And that new piece, if you look at the mathematics
29:50
Speaker 1: of it, is exactly the electromagnetic field. I think you
29:53
Speaker 1: lost me a little while, to be honest, So I
29:56
Speaker 1: guess it's difference between local and global. Is it like
29:59
Speaker 1: kind of like if I let go of my book
30:01
Speaker 1: on a from a three story building, it's not I
30:04
Speaker 1: won't get the same velocity at the bottom as if
30:06
Speaker 1: I drop it from a one story building. Is that
30:08
Speaker 1: kind of what do you mean? Yes? Or let's say
30:10
Speaker 1: you want to define your altitude differently based on where
30:12
Speaker 1: you are in the world, Like currently we have a
30:15
Speaker 1: single global definition of altitude relative to sea level. But
30:18
Speaker 1: what if you wanted to choose your height definition to
30:20
Speaker 1: be different if you're here or if you're over there,
30:22
Speaker 1: if you're an Irvine or Pasadena or New York. All
30:25
Speaker 1: of a sudden, you know, as you move across the country,
30:28
Speaker 1: your height would be changing constantly, like oh, I'm higher,
30:30
Speaker 1: I'm lower I'm higher, I'm lower. It wouldn't make any sense.
30:33
Speaker 1: You'd get crazy physical predictions, like the book would still
30:36
Speaker 1: fall the same way, wouldn't it. The book would still
30:38
Speaker 1: fall the same way, and so your theory wouldn't work.
30:40
Speaker 1: If you'd like to throw a ball as a parable,
30:42
Speaker 1: and it's moving across the ground and you're constantly changing
30:46
Speaker 1: like the definition of height, then you're not going to
30:48
Speaker 1: get sensible predictions. Right. The ball obviously does move smoothly,
30:51
Speaker 1: and so your physical theory doesn't work anymore if your
30:54
Speaker 1: definition of height is changing as the ball is moving.
30:57
Speaker 1: Is it, like, you know, my equation, my prediction one word,
31:00
Speaker 1: if I use meters in England or if I use
31:03
Speaker 1: feet here in the US, Like that's what you mean?
31:05
Speaker 1: Like you want a theory to be different about whether
31:08
Speaker 1: you use feed or meters. Yeah, and so global invariance
31:12
Speaker 1: is like, well, let's just use meters everywhere that makes sense,
31:15
Speaker 1: or let's use feed everywhere, but let's be consistent. Local
31:18
Speaker 1: invariance is like, no, I want to get to pick
31:19
Speaker 1: my units differently everywhere, and so that's a much higher standard,
31:23
Speaker 1: like to have the laws of physics that allow you
31:25
Speaker 1: to have that much freedom to make any choice at
31:28
Speaker 1: any point in the universe is a much higher standard, oh, right,
31:31
Speaker 1: because I guess it would have to be like irrelevant,
31:33
Speaker 1: right almost exactly. It's like it doesn't matter if you
31:37
Speaker 1: weigh something in England or in the US, whether you
31:40
Speaker 1: use meters, because meters doesn't figure into it. That's kind
31:42
Speaker 1: of what you want, right exactly, all right, So you're
31:45
Speaker 1: saying that we the universe doesn't seem to have that
31:48
Speaker 1: local gauge invariance, meaning it doesn't matter if you use
31:51
Speaker 1: meters or feed but you're saying, there's a way to
31:53
Speaker 1: get that back. There is a way to get that back.
31:56
Speaker 1: You can say, what would the universe have to look
31:58
Speaker 1: like to have local gage invariants? Like take your electron
32:01
Speaker 1: is flying through space, and what if you want to
32:04
Speaker 1: be able to like multiply it's a wave functioned by
32:06
Speaker 1: an arbitrary number at a different point in space, and
32:08
Speaker 1: how that number be different everywhere in space? Is there
32:11
Speaker 1: a way to do that? Is there a universe you
32:13
Speaker 1: could construct that would follow that, that would respect your
32:16
Speaker 1: local gauge invariance that would allow you to have that
32:18
Speaker 1: much freedom. And it turns out there is if you
32:21
Speaker 1: add a photon. So if you have just electrons in
32:23
Speaker 1: the universe, no local gauge invariance. But if you add
32:26
Speaker 1: an electromagnetic field, which gives you photons, boom, you get
32:30
Speaker 1: local gauge invariants for free. Well what wait, okay, so
32:34
Speaker 1: somehow the fix for this solution, but for all equations,
32:38
Speaker 1: for just some particles, you're saying, the solution to making
32:41
Speaker 1: things be meter or feet independent is to add the
32:44
Speaker 1: magnetic electromagnetic field. Yes, the electromagnetic field is the thing
32:49
Speaker 1: that can perfectly compensate and give you local gauge invariants
32:53
Speaker 1: like you can derive it. You can say, here's the
32:55
Speaker 1: wave function for the electron. I'm going to add an
32:58
Speaker 1: arbitrary phase to it, which is multiplying it by an
33:00
Speaker 1: arbitrary number. And you can say, well, now my predictions
33:03
Speaker 1: are wrong, they're different. What would I need to add
33:05
Speaker 1: to my equations to compensate for that to cancel out?
33:08
Speaker 1: This bologna that I've added and once you need to
33:11
Speaker 1: add has exactly the same mathematical structure as the electromagnetic field.
33:15
Speaker 1: It is the electromagnetic field. So the presence of the
33:18
Speaker 1: electromagnetic field is what preserves local gauge invariance. For it's
33:23
Speaker 1: you're saying, the electromagnetic field preserved symmetry for the electron
33:28
Speaker 1: or for like everything in the entire universe for the
33:31
Speaker 1: electrons wave function. Yes, so we're talking just about the
33:34
Speaker 1: electron and its way function. It is feet and meter independent.
33:37
Speaker 1: But if you had the electromatic field, then it is independent. Oh,
33:41
Speaker 1: I guess the electron has its own field to the
33:43
Speaker 1: electron has its own field. Yeah, there's the electron field.
33:46
Speaker 1: And now we're saying that if we want this local
33:48
Speaker 1: gauge invariance where we can multiply arbitrary numbers to the
33:51
Speaker 1: electron field, that can't happen unless you have this exact,
33:55
Speaker 1: very specific requirement of another field that hangs out and
33:58
Speaker 1: basically compensates for that and takes care of that for you.
34:02
Speaker 1: And it turns out that that field is the electromagnetic field,
34:05
Speaker 1: and photons basically exist in order to preserve local gauge invariants.
34:10
Speaker 1: What you're saying that the only reason we have light
34:12
Speaker 1: is to make electrons happy. Well, here's the philosophy, right, Like,
34:16
Speaker 1: do we have light because the universe preserves local gauge invariants?
34:20
Speaker 1: And that's the only law of physics that allows that
34:22
Speaker 1: one that has photons. Or do we have photons because
34:26
Speaker 1: we have local gauge invariants? Right? Like which direction does
34:29
Speaker 1: it go? Uh? You know is a fun philosophy question.
34:32
Speaker 1: But what we do know is that we have photons,
34:35
Speaker 1: we have electrons, and we have the electromagnetic field. Both
34:38
Speaker 1: of those two things, and together they seem to have
34:40
Speaker 1: this amazing, weird property of local gauge invariance where you
34:43
Speaker 1: can multiply up an arbitrary number and that number can
34:46
Speaker 1: be different at different points in the universe and it
34:48
Speaker 1: doesn't change the predictions. These two fields work to gather
34:52
Speaker 1: in this really crazy and interesting way. That's interesting, but
34:55
Speaker 1: it only applies to the electron. Like what about quarts, right,
34:58
Speaker 1: quarks have a field, I think, and we can ask
35:02
Speaker 1: the same questions like is the cork also locally symmetric?
35:06
Speaker 1: You know, meat and feed independent here in the US
35:10
Speaker 1: And is there's a separate field then that also fixes
35:13
Speaker 1: that symmetry. Fascinating question. You're absolutely right. This applies to
35:17
Speaker 1: the electron. It also applies to any particle that has
35:21
Speaker 1: electric charge. So for example, the muan has this same property.
35:25
Speaker 1: The muan, you can multiply by an arbitrary number, and
35:28
Speaker 1: you also get local gauge invariants because the muan is charged,
35:31
Speaker 1: and it also communicates with the photon field. And yes,
35:34
Speaker 1: corks have electric charge, so they do the same thing.
35:37
Speaker 1: In fact, turns out that's what it means to have
35:40
Speaker 1: electric charge. Electric charge means you couple to the photon field.
35:44
Speaker 1: Because electric charge just means you feel electric fields. You're
35:48
Speaker 1: like influenced by electromagnetic fields, which is the field of
35:53
Speaker 1: the photon. And so the reason we have electricity and magnetism,
35:56
Speaker 1: the reason we have electric charge is because these particles
35:59
Speaker 1: have this property. A really fascinating thing is we didn't
36:02
Speaker 1: know necessarily, like do muans feel the same photon as electrons,
36:07
Speaker 1: Like it could have been there's a different feel to
36:09
Speaker 1: preserve the muans local gauge invariants and the electrons. But
36:13
Speaker 1: of course we know there's a single photon, the same
36:15
Speaker 1: photon that an electronomists can be absorbed by a muan.
36:19
Speaker 1: But it didn't have to be that way. You could
36:20
Speaker 1: have lived in the universe with like electron photon and
36:23
Speaker 1: a muan photon and a towel photon and lots of
36:26
Speaker 1: different kinds of photons in it. All right, So then
36:28
Speaker 1: it seems like the electromagnetic field is this thing that
36:32
Speaker 1: preserves the symmetry for all particles that feel the electric charge,
36:37
Speaker 1: and so that's what makes the equations for all these
36:40
Speaker 1: particles symmetric. And that's beautiful and maybe even clever. All right,
36:44
Speaker 1: let's get into what it all means for the universe
36:47
Speaker 1: and our understanding of it. But first let's take another
36:50
Speaker 1: quick break. All right, we're going deep here today, Daniel.
37:06
Speaker 1: I feel I feel like you really thrown us down
37:08
Speaker 1: a rabbit hole here, Like what is the nature of
37:10
Speaker 1: the electric magnetic field? Like does it exists only to
37:13
Speaker 1: give symmetry to these particles? Or do particles have the
37:17
Speaker 1: symmetry because of the electromagnetic field. It's a big philosophical question. Yeah. Well,
37:21
Speaker 1: you know, I'm responding to your challenge. You remember when
37:23
Speaker 1: we were talking about the weak force and does it
37:25
Speaker 1: push or pull? And I said, well, one day we're
37:27
Speaker 1: gonna have to go deep and talk about gauge symmetry,
37:29
Speaker 1: and you said, bring it on. I got time. So here.
37:33
Speaker 1: I don't think you can prove that, I said that,
37:34
Speaker 1: can you? We didn't record it. I think we do
37:37
Speaker 1: have a recording I was just listening to yesterday. I
37:41
Speaker 1: might officially regret it right now. No, but this is
37:43
Speaker 1: pretty interesting, all right. So it seems like the universe
37:47
Speaker 1: likes this symmetry, this local symmetry likes uh, and to
37:51
Speaker 1: do that, it has this field electro magnetic field, and
37:56
Speaker 1: that's kind of how the universe works. And thank goodness, right,
37:58
Speaker 1: because that's how we get liked. Yeah, that to why
38:00
Speaker 1: the universe is literally so brilliant. Don't don't nice. It's
38:05
Speaker 1: a nice light light joke. But I guess what does
38:07
Speaker 1: it mean, Daniel, I'm not sure what it means. You know,
38:10
Speaker 1: we live in this universe that has photons in it,
38:13
Speaker 1: and that means that we live in a universe that
38:16
Speaker 1: respects local gauge invariance. Like why does our universe respect
38:20
Speaker 1: this super weird, very specific, difficult symmetry. You know, why
38:24
Speaker 1: can you multiply wave functions by any number and it
38:27
Speaker 1: have that be a different number at every place in
38:29
Speaker 1: the universe and still it doesn't matter. Like it's fascinating.
38:33
Speaker 1: I don't know what that means about the universe, but
38:35
Speaker 1: it means that local gauge in variance is deeply deeply
38:39
Speaker 1: built into the very structure of reality. So I think
38:42
Speaker 1: we need like another hundred years of philosophers smoking banana
38:45
Speaker 1: peels thinking about why that is to tell us, like,
38:48
Speaker 1: you know, why reality is this way and not some
38:50
Speaker 1: other way, but it also has very physical consequences for
38:54
Speaker 1: the nature of reality. Well, I guess the question, maybe
38:57
Speaker 1: before we get into too deep into that, is does
38:59
Speaker 1: this also apply to particles that don't feel the electromagnetic force? Like,
39:03
Speaker 1: aren't there particles that don't feel the photons and things
39:06
Speaker 1: like that, right? Do they have their own field that
39:09
Speaker 1: also preserves that symmetry. They do not. Neutrinos, for example,
39:12
Speaker 1: do not have this symmetry. And neutrinos do not have
39:15
Speaker 1: electric charge and do not interact with the electromagnetic field
39:18
Speaker 1: and do not talk to photons. And if neutrinos did
39:21
Speaker 1: have this symmetry, they would have electric charge. And that's
39:24
Speaker 1: sort of what it means to have electric charges, that
39:26
Speaker 1: you have this symmetry, and then there's a field out
39:29
Speaker 1: there that like compensates for it. And so no, neutrinos
39:32
Speaker 1: do not have this symmetry. You can't do the same
39:34
Speaker 1: thing to neutrinos. They have another weird different symmetry, which
39:38
Speaker 1: is why they feel the weak force, and quarks have
39:41
Speaker 1: multiple symmetries, which is why they feel the strong force also,
39:44
Speaker 1: but we can talk about that in a minute. It's
39:45
Speaker 1: almost like you're saying that the forces in the universe are,
39:49
Speaker 1: you know, there to maintain this symmetry in the universe exactly.
39:53
Speaker 1: And that's why we call the photon a gauge boson,
39:56
Speaker 1: and we call these things gauge fields and gauge forces.
39:59
Speaker 1: Bec as it seems like the forces either they exist
40:02
Speaker 1: in order to do this, or they exist because of this,
40:05
Speaker 1: or this is the only way to have a universe
40:07
Speaker 1: because of this symmetry. But every force exists in order
40:11
Speaker 1: to preserve some local gauge invariance for the particles. It's
40:15
Speaker 1: almost like they're forcing the universe. You know, I made
40:20
Speaker 1: that same joke in that other podcast episode, and you
40:22
Speaker 1: said I kind of forced it. Well, I'm trying to
40:26
Speaker 1: be symmetric. You know, I'm copying the same joke, but
40:29
Speaker 1: I'm doing it on the other side. You're forced feeding
40:31
Speaker 1: me my own puns back to me being clever, right, Yeah,
40:36
Speaker 1: And the nature of that field is really fascinating, Like,
40:38
Speaker 1: for example, because we have this local gauge invariance and
40:43
Speaker 1: you have these photons. That's why we have charge conservation.
40:46
Speaker 1: Remember how we talked about how every symmetry the universe
40:49
Speaker 1: leads to a conservation of something that's Nothers theorem. So
40:53
Speaker 1: the fact that you can serve this property of electrons
40:56
Speaker 1: is why you cannot create or destroy electric charge. How
41:00
Speaker 1: does preserving symmetry lead to these conservation laws which seemed important? Right, Yeah, Well,
41:06
Speaker 1: we're gonna have a whole episode about Nurther's theorem to
41:08
Speaker 1: get into like the intuition behind it all. Right, now,
41:10
Speaker 1: all you need to know is that every time you
41:12
Speaker 1: identify a symmetry of the laws of physics, that directly
41:16
Speaker 1: tells you that there's something that's conserved. Just like the
41:19
Speaker 1: symmetry of moving your experiments somewhere else leads to conservation
41:23
Speaker 1: of momentum, and the symmetry of rotating your experiment leads
41:26
Speaker 1: to conservation of angular momentum. Well, the symmetry of rotating
41:30
Speaker 1: your electron from plus wave function to minus wave function
41:34
Speaker 1: leads to conservation of charge. I mean it's the same
41:36
Speaker 1: concept for the other forces, right, strong and the weak force.
41:39
Speaker 1: It's the same concept for the other forces, but it's
41:41
Speaker 1: a different symmetry, and in those cases it's a much
41:44
Speaker 1: more complicated symmetry. So, for example, the strong force has
41:48
Speaker 1: not just like plus and minus charge, right it has
41:51
Speaker 1: three different kinds of charge, red, green, and blue, and
41:55
Speaker 1: it actually follows a much more complicated local gauge invariant.
42:00
Speaker 1: It turns out, for the strong force, you cannot just
42:02
Speaker 1: multiply the way function by minus one. You can rotate
42:06
Speaker 1: the color space, like take red and map into green,
42:09
Speaker 1: and green and map itto blue and blue and map
42:11
Speaker 1: it back to red. Okay, you can do this kind
42:13
Speaker 1: of rotation, and you can have a different rotation at
42:16
Speaker 1: every place in space, like green here is blue. There
42:19
Speaker 1: is half red plus half green over here, And you
42:22
Speaker 1: can do that and it's fine, and it will not
42:24
Speaker 1: change the nature of your predictions for how the strong
42:28
Speaker 1: force works, because you have a bunch of gluon fields
42:31
Speaker 1: that exist to compensate for that, to sort of correct
42:34
Speaker 1: for that. You're saying, like, like these symmetries, it's almost
42:37
Speaker 1: like a three way symmetry, right, Like it's not just
42:39
Speaker 1: like a mirror, but it's like a house of mirrors
42:41
Speaker 1: kind of, yeah, exactly, and just like the sphere. Right,
42:44
Speaker 1: the sphere is a much more complicated symmetry than just
42:46
Speaker 1: like reflection. You can rotate the sphere, and you can
42:48
Speaker 1: rotate it in different ways. You can rotate it about
42:51
Speaker 1: its equator, or about its poll or about some other directions.
42:54
Speaker 1: There's actually three fundamental symmetries of the sphere. The same
42:57
Speaker 1: thing is true for color space for the strong force.
43:00
Speaker 1: And that's why we have eight gluons. Because the strong
43:03
Speaker 1: force is a much more complicated local gauge invariance. It
43:06
Speaker 1: requires more fields. Are actually eight different gluon fields required
43:11
Speaker 1: just to preserve this force and so, but it's described
43:15
Speaker 1: by the same fundamental mathematics. And this is why. If
43:17
Speaker 1: you've heard that group theory is important for particle physics,
43:20
Speaker 1: this is why, because group theory describes exactly how these
43:23
Speaker 1: rotations work and sort of like the set of different
43:26
Speaker 1: rotations that you can have. And so the reason the
43:28
Speaker 1: strong force exists is because quarks have this weird property
43:33
Speaker 1: that you can rotate their color in an arbitrary way
43:36
Speaker 1: a different points in space, and the gluon fields are
43:38
Speaker 1: there to compensate. That's why they exist. So then I
43:41
Speaker 1: guess do physicists c force as something totally different than
43:45
Speaker 1: most people think about it. You know, when I think
43:47
Speaker 1: of a force, it's like pushing and pulling, or as
43:50
Speaker 1: they usually describe it, it's like, you know, an electron
43:53
Speaker 1: throws a photon to another electron, and that you know,
43:57
Speaker 1: the throwing of the photon and the receiving of the
43:59
Speaker 1: photo on is a way to kind of exchange you know,
44:02
Speaker 1: a push or a pool or energy. But now it
44:04
Speaker 1: seems like these fields are just there to preserve some
44:07
Speaker 1: kind of symmetry. Is that kind of why you see
44:09
Speaker 1: forces differently? Yeah, and that's that moment of elegance I
44:12
Speaker 1: was talking about, Like we start very simply in the world,
44:15
Speaker 1: seeing the world around us and categorizing and listing our observations. Oh,
44:20
Speaker 1: that apple fell from the tree, or my friend fell
44:23
Speaker 1: down the canyon, you know, or I felt this weird magnetism.
44:26
Speaker 1: That's a pretty dark scenario there, these three a friend
44:30
Speaker 1: down the canyon. Hopefully not a podcast like cost thinking
44:33
Speaker 1: about the applications of gravity, and we just describe all
44:37
Speaker 1: of those things in terms of our experiences. But you know,
44:40
Speaker 1: that's not necessarily the most natural way to do it.
44:43
Speaker 1: And that's why physics takes us and we transform our
44:46
Speaker 1: intuitive experiences into like a list of observations and look
44:50
Speaker 1: for mathematical patterns, and then we discover all these things
44:53
Speaker 1: are actually connected to those things, and it turns out
44:55
Speaker 1: we've been looking at this all the wrong way. And
44:58
Speaker 1: those are my favorite moments in physics when we discover, oh,
45:00
Speaker 1: we think about forces this way, actually they probably exist
45:03
Speaker 1: for this totally other reason, and we've come at it
45:06
Speaker 1: in this weird way just because of our experience. And
45:09
Speaker 1: so you get this like flash of deep insight when
45:11
Speaker 1: you're like, oh, the universe fits together in this beautiful,
45:14
Speaker 1: mathematically elegant way. If you think about it in terms
45:17
Speaker 1: of forces, you know, recovering local gauge invariants instead of
45:21
Speaker 1: you know, building anti gravity machines to protect your clumsy friend.
45:24
Speaker 1: I guess how would you describe it? Then? When an
45:26
Speaker 1: electron pushes on another electron and they exchange photons, how
45:30
Speaker 1: did physicist see it? How do you see it in
45:32
Speaker 1: terms of preserving the symmetry? Yeah, well, physicists see it
45:35
Speaker 1: in terms of carrying those rotations, Like a photon sort
45:39
Speaker 1: of carries that rotation, you know, that's what a photon does.
45:42
Speaker 1: It rotates from one gauge to another gauge, and so
45:45
Speaker 1: when an electron communicates with another electron somewhere else in space,
45:49
Speaker 1: it's sort of like communicating about their differences in their gauge.
45:53
Speaker 1: And so that's what a photon does. It carries that information,
45:56
Speaker 1: and that's what gluons do. Gluons rotate things through colors space.
46:00
Speaker 1: They're like, Okay, this cork over here is a green cork.
46:03
Speaker 1: That cork is a blue cork. You know, I got
46:05
Speaker 1: a communicate from here to here, and I'm gonna change
46:08
Speaker 1: the green to the blue as I move along. The
46:10
Speaker 1: forces are sort of like there to connect these objects,
46:13
Speaker 1: and they do so by rotating the gauge from one
46:16
Speaker 1: place to another. And I think that's most clearly seen
46:19
Speaker 1: in terms of the weak force. The weak force has
46:21
Speaker 1: the same sort of structure, but then again in a
46:24
Speaker 1: different internal symmetry space. It's almost like two electrons are
46:28
Speaker 1: gauging each other. It's like, you know, an electron interacts
46:31
Speaker 1: with the electromagnetic fields. If it moves, it creates some
46:34
Speaker 1: sort of disturbance that then has to be kind of
46:37
Speaker 1: squared away somewhere else by another electron. And then that
46:41
Speaker 1: transfer of you know, wiggle or disturbance is what you
46:44
Speaker 1: would call a photon. Yes, like patching up your check
46:47
Speaker 1: book at the end of the month. Photons are there
46:49
Speaker 1: to like find those pennies and move them from one
46:52
Speaker 1: to column to another to make everything out up in
46:54
Speaker 1: the end. Hopefully they don't get too creative like I
46:57
Speaker 1: sometimes I may or may not do electron magnetic accounting exactly. Well,
47:02
Speaker 1: maybe that's what quantum accounting really is. There really is
47:04
Speaker 1: a quantum accounting firm. Yeah, where you have money and
47:07
Speaker 1: don't have money at the same time. You're both rich
47:09
Speaker 1: and broke at the same time. And you know, I
47:11
Speaker 1: got an email this morning from a listener Ivan, who
47:14
Speaker 1: is asking me about why I say that the weak
47:17
Speaker 1: force makes sense to all be together, Like why the
47:20
Speaker 1: ws and zs all makes sense to be in a
47:22
Speaker 1: single field and also with the electromagnetic field. But like
47:26
Speaker 1: you can also ask, like why don't you consider the
47:28
Speaker 1: W plus and the W minus and the Z all
47:30
Speaker 1: just separate forces. Why isn't the weak force three different forces?
47:34
Speaker 1: Why do you even try to put these things together?
47:36
Speaker 1: And the reason are these symmetry? So we discover that
47:39
Speaker 1: like the W plus by itself doesn't preserve local gauge invariants.
47:43
Speaker 1: But when you put the W plus and the W
47:45
Speaker 1: minus and the Z together, then they do. So together,
47:49
Speaker 1: these three fields work really hard to preserve another kind
47:53
Speaker 1: of invariance, different from the one that's for the electron,
47:56
Speaker 1: and different from the one that's for corks. And this
47:59
Speaker 1: is why we have the weak force, because it preserves rotations.
48:02
Speaker 1: And this thing called weak isospin space. And so these
48:05
Speaker 1: three fields together do that. And as you say, you
48:08
Speaker 1: can put electromagnetism and the weak force together to make
48:11
Speaker 1: an even super theory which preserves a different number altogether
48:16
Speaker 1: that individually neither the two forces preserve. Right. It's almost
48:20
Speaker 1: like the more complicated the symmetries are, the more forces
48:24
Speaker 1: you need to patch them up. Yeah. And of course
48:27
Speaker 1: the really super fascinating wrinkle is that that symmetry electroweak symmetry,
48:30
Speaker 1: the symmetry that's preserved by the photon together with the
48:33
Speaker 1: two ws and the Z, that one doesn't actually work,
48:36
Speaker 1: That one's broken, that one isn't actually preserved by the universe.
48:40
Speaker 1: And the reason for that is the Higgs boson. The
48:43
Speaker 1: Higgs boson breaks that symmetry, and that's why it exists.
48:47
Speaker 1: That's how we were able to detect that it does exist,
48:49
Speaker 1: because we saw, oh, this symmetry doesn't actually work. We
48:53
Speaker 1: need something else out there to break this symmetry, and
48:55
Speaker 1: that's what the Higgs does. And that's why the ws
48:58
Speaker 1: and disease are massive while the photon and the gluons
49:01
Speaker 1: are massless. That's wild, Like, maybe the only reason we
49:04
Speaker 1: have mass is to patch up these brakes. Yeah, well,
49:07
Speaker 1: the only reason we have mass is because this one
49:10
Speaker 1: symmetry is broken. This electroweak symmetry isn't actually something the
49:14
Speaker 1: universe respects because the Higgs breaks it. If we didn't
49:17
Speaker 1: have the Higgs, then the W and the Z would
49:19
Speaker 1: be massless, and so would all the other particles, and
49:21
Speaker 1: we wouldn't have any mass without the Higgs. Don't we
49:24
Speaker 1: have other like violations of symmetry also all over the
49:28
Speaker 1: theory of physics, right, are in there all kinds of
49:30
Speaker 1: different charge and parody violations? There are, yes, And so
49:34
Speaker 1: we have these a lot of these approximate symmetries or
49:37
Speaker 1: broken symmetries, And an approximate symmetry is like, well, maybe
49:40
Speaker 1: we're just missing a piece, Like we're not talking about
49:43
Speaker 1: the right thing, Like we think we've identified the thing
49:46
Speaker 1: that's being preserved, the thing with the universe respects, but
49:48
Speaker 1: we must be looking at it from like the wrong angle.
49:51
Speaker 1: We don't quite have it right, you know. For example,
49:53
Speaker 1: like if you had a cube, and you know, you
49:56
Speaker 1: can rotate the cube and you still get a cube, right,
49:59
Speaker 1: But what if you're not looking at it from the
50:00
Speaker 1: right point of view. You're only looking at like a
50:01
Speaker 1: two D slice of the cube, and so the symmetry
50:04
Speaker 1: of it is not exactly preserved. So in some of
50:06
Speaker 1: these cases we're probably just like, don't have the full
50:09
Speaker 1: picture yet. We haven't really discovered what it is the
50:12
Speaker 1: universe is preserving. Like maybe it's not broken. Maybe we're
50:15
Speaker 1: just missing something. Yeah, maybe we're just missing we haven't
50:18
Speaker 1: seen the full picture, but so far we haven't, which
50:21
Speaker 1: means that to us, it does look like a broken universe. Yeah,
50:24
Speaker 1: but some of these symmetries are perfect, Like charge conservation
50:27
Speaker 1: is not when we've ever seen broken, Like, no particle
50:29
Speaker 1: has ever broken conservation of charge, like a photon has
50:32
Speaker 1: never turned into two electrons or electrons don't just disappear
50:36
Speaker 1: into neutral particles. As far as we know, that is
50:39
Speaker 1: a perfect symmetry of the universe charge conservation. Alright, Well,
50:42
Speaker 1: I guess that tells us a little bit more about
50:45
Speaker 1: the universe. You know, there's these hidden symmetries, these hidden
50:48
Speaker 1: almost rules, right, that sort of govern everything, and that
50:51
Speaker 1: may even like give rise to things that we take
50:54
Speaker 1: for granted, like light. Maybe that's just the universe's way
50:58
Speaker 1: of trying to stay beautiful. Yeah, the way I think
51:01
Speaker 1: about it is that you can't have a universe that
51:03
Speaker 1: respects this symmetry without the photon. Like, the photon is
51:07
Speaker 1: absolutely necessary in order to have a universe that respects
51:10
Speaker 1: this symmetry. So therefore we do have a universe that
51:13
Speaker 1: respects this symmetry. Now, the question we can ask is like, well,
51:15
Speaker 1: why what a weird thing for universe to insist on?
51:19
Speaker 1: What does that mean? And I think that's the kind
51:21
Speaker 1: of thing that in a hundred years people look back
51:23
Speaker 1: and be like, oh my gosh, that was so obvious.
51:25
Speaker 1: The universe was screaming the answer to you. But here
51:28
Speaker 1: we are in the forefront of ignorance. We don't really
51:30
Speaker 1: know what this clue means yet. So I think it
51:32
Speaker 1: does mean something deep about the universe. We just still
51:34
Speaker 1: need to digest it. So come on, philosophers, tell us
51:37
Speaker 1: what it all means. Well, it sounds like the answer
51:39
Speaker 1: might come from physics, right, you're saying, like, maybe we
51:41
Speaker 1: don't know why now, but maybe in the future to
51:44
Speaker 1: a physicist that will seem obvious, right, Like, maybe there
51:47
Speaker 1: is a physical answer to these white questions, and just
51:50
Speaker 1: because we don't know what they are now, you're bumping
51:52
Speaker 1: them over to the philosophy department. Yeah, and it could
51:54
Speaker 1: also come from mathematics. We didn't appreciate the structure of
51:57
Speaker 1: these symmetries until we learned group theory from mathematics. It
52:00
Speaker 1: turns out that perfectly describes everything that's going on here.
52:04
Speaker 1: Mathematicians invented it for like totally other reasons, because they
52:07
Speaker 1: just like thinking about how things rotate in their minds.
52:10
Speaker 1: But it could be that what we've discovered now needs
52:12
Speaker 1: like some new branch of mathematics to describe it and
52:15
Speaker 1: give us like an understanding of what the meaning is. Intuitively,
52:18
Speaker 1: so it might just be that we need to invent
52:20
Speaker 1: new mathematical words and concepts to fit these things together
52:24
Speaker 1: into a deeper understanding. I see you're passing the bug
52:27
Speaker 1: now to the mathematics department. You're like, blame everyone but us.
52:31
Speaker 1: You know. It's like when poets invent new words, you know.
52:34
Speaker 1: I think English professors are like, can you really just
52:36
Speaker 1: do that? You know? And so I don't know if
52:38
Speaker 1: mathematicians want us inventing the new math, you know. I
52:41
Speaker 1: think they, you know, really would prefer to do that themselves.
52:44
Speaker 1: I see, now you're blaming the English department as well.
52:47
Speaker 1: That's right. I'm good at this. Bring out from the problem.
52:49
Speaker 1: I can blame them for it. The certain symmetry about you, Daniel,
52:53
Speaker 1: I feel like you're trying to preserve. Look, we made
52:57
Speaker 1: these crazy discoveries. Everybody else needs to tell what's going on.
53:01
Speaker 1: You know. It's really fun to think about. And this
53:03
Speaker 1: is one of the reasons why I agreed to join
53:04
Speaker 1: the philosophy department here, because I do like to think
53:06
Speaker 1: about what it means about the universe. Because in the end,
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Speaker 1: that's why we're doing these experiments, not because we like
53:12
Speaker 1: to write down tidy mathematical equations, but because we hope
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Speaker 1: that by doing so, they will speak to us, and
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Speaker 1: they will tell us, Look, the universe follows this rule.
53:20
Speaker 1: The universe has to be this way, and we'll get
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Speaker 1: some understanding of why it is a pretty perplexing universe.
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Speaker 1: And you know what, whether or not it's beautiful or broken,
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Speaker 1: we we still love it. You know, no pressure, You
53:31
Speaker 1: don't have to tell us everything. You know, we're just
53:34
Speaker 1: here for you or because of you. I don't know, man,
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Speaker 1: that's another philosophical department. We do love the universe though,
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Speaker 1: that's true. All right. Well, we hope you enjoyed dad,
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Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us, see you next time. Thanks for listening,
53:54
Speaker 1: and remember that Daniel and Jorge explained. The universe is
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Speaker 1: a production of I Heart Riding. For more podcast asked
54:00
Speaker 1: from my Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app,
54:03
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.