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TV BONUS: Andor - Season 2 - Episodes 4-6 · Left of the Projector

• 0:18
  Track 1: Hello and welcome to Left to the Projector. I have your host,
• 0:21
  Track 1: Evan, back again with another TV discussion from the left.
• 0:26
  Track 1: This week on the show, we continue our series on Andor Season 2, Episodes 4 through 6.
• 0:36
  Track 1: And of course, I have back Ward and Bill to discuss this perfect television program.
• 0:44
  Track 1: Thank you for being here today.
• 0:46
  Track 3: Appreciate you having us.
• 0:48
  Track 2: Yes, this is actually perfect television, and we are not in the CIA.
• 0:51
  Track 1: No, and for anyone who's wondering what that means, if you didn't hear,
• 0:55
  Track 1: the CIA had a covert website that they used, which was a Star Wars fan page.
• 1:02
  Track 1: So if you ever go to a Star Wars fan page, you are probably being overlooked
• 1:06
  Track 1: by the Central Intelligence Agency.
• 1:09
  Track 1: And I'm winking right now at my contact there, so he can change things.
• 1:15
  Track 3: You can also disregard all bad Star Wars takes as Fed takes from now on.
• 1:20
  Track 2: Yeah, I 100% believe that every
• 1:25
  Track 2: shit talk against What's-Her-Face from the second or the third movie,
• 1:34
  Track 2: the new movies, Tran.
• 1:36
  Track 3: I thought those didn't exist.
• 1:37
  Track 2: Marie Tran?
• 1:38
  Track 1: Oh, yeah.
• 1:39
  Track 2: Yeah, those are all Fed takes. That was just the government pushing anti-Asian.
• 1:44
  Track 2: That was the government pushing Asian hate.
• 1:47
  Track 3: I agree with that. And also anything Empire did nothing wrong.
• 1:51
  Track 2: Yeah. That's objectively incorrect.
• 1:54
  Track 1: And so for anyone who listened, hopefully listened to, and or season two episodes one through three,
• 2:01
  Track 1: our conversation, we did slightly veer ever so gently into a couple of the bits
• 2:07
  Track 1: that happened in episode four.
• 2:10
  Track 1: Touched on four and five. Just a tiny bit. Just a little hair.
• 2:13
  Track 1: But this time we will, we did our homework.
• 2:16
  Track 1: We have, I have copious notes and I'm not going to disappoint you.
• 2:21
  Track 1: Hopefully this time my Star Wars leftist friends.
• 2:26
  Track 2: Oh, there's always going to be some of them because even amongst the left,
• 2:32
  Track 2: there are people that think the Jedi are good people or something. And you know.
• 2:36
  Track 3: And there's people that think lightsabers are really cool.
• 2:39
  Track 2: Yeah, but honestly, ISB meetings, those are cool.
• 2:43
  Track 3: Those are so much sick. Like, dude, no, honestly, like, if you would have told
• 2:47
  Track 3: me, like, as a kid, like, hey, you know what's not cool?
• 2:53
  Track 3: Lightsabers. You know what's really cool?
• 2:56
  Track 3: Five basically nameless dudes from the ISB having a meeting.
• 3:01
  Track 3: trust me when you're 33 watching and or season two you're gonna be so much more
• 3:07
  Track 3: stoked for an isb meeting than any lightsaber duel you could ever see there's.
• 3:13
  Track 2: Gonna be multiple episodes where old people talk in an antique shop and you're
• 3:17
  Track 2: gonna be fucking psyched.
• 3:20
  Track 3: Yeah like honestly it's so crazy to me like dude you would have told me like
• 3:26
  Track 3: this like years ago like this would have been like the height of star wars i'm
• 3:29
  Track 3: like no no no no no you're crazy now it's gold standard.
• 3:34
  Track 1: You never would have believed that someone would actually make this
• 3:37
  Track 1: like just the thought of it existing you know
• 3:41
  Track 1: like the as you i mean as you said like the i mean i
• 3:44
  Track 1: agree about the isb you know meetings are
• 3:47
  Track 1: all great and interesting and like give you this real glimpse into
• 3:50
  Track 1: what they actually be you know like when you when you hear
• 3:53
  Track 1: some video of some politician on 60 minutes
• 3:56
  Track 1: or whatever and he like says the quiet part out loud those are
• 3:59
  Track 1: meetings are just like the quiet part out loud the whole time and i think that's
• 4:02
  Track 1: what like gives you a good glimpse into like what the empire does because those
• 4:06
  Track 1: meetings in other star wars movies where it's darth vader talking to some you
• 4:11
  Track 1: know second in command like those
• 4:12
  Track 1: those those that sucks those are stupid that's just like the those are.
• 4:16
  Track 3: Funny if you really think about it because you got like a lot of military dudes
• 4:22
  Track 3: trying to talk about strategy and then you have this fucking monk dude over
• 4:26
  Track 3: here that's like, no, no, no, no, no, magic is the way.
• 4:29
  Track 2: Okay, so here's the thing.
• 4:31
  Track 3: So funny, but not great.
• 4:33
  Track 2: And I think now as a vocal atheist,
• 4:39
  Track 2: Like, I can appreciate that. But the problem with that take trips up is that
• 4:44
  Track 2: magic is actually real in Star Wars.
• 4:47
  Track 2: Like, that's the problem. Like, the real funny thing about it is that in real
• 4:53
  Track 2: life, the life we live in, the world we live in,
• 4:58
  Track 2: there are people having meetings where some guy in the background is going,
• 5:02
  Track 2: but what about the magic guy in the sky?
• 5:04
  Track 2: And in our world, we have literally no reason to believe the magic on the sky
• 5:08
  Track 2: exists or gives a shit about anything.
• 5:10
  Track 2: But in this universe, the magic is real.
• 5:15
  Track 2: And then he choked dude out for it.
• 5:17
  Track 2: Like, literally, you know, there is there is that.
• 5:22
  Track 2: And I hate to give Jedi any room for anything. Right.
• 5:29
  Track 2: But they still do exist, sadly, unfortunately, much to my dismay.
• 5:37
  Track 1: They do. And they mostly don't exist in this show.
• 5:42
  Track 2: They don't exist at all. They're never even mentioned.
• 5:46
  Track 2: The Jedi Order is never mentioned.
• 5:48
  Track 1: That's true. They do never utter the word Jedi in this series.
• 5:52
  Track 1: They're inconsequential. They're inconsequential to a real revolution in the
• 5:57
  Track 1: same way that magic is not consequential in a actual revolution.
• 6:02
  Track 2: Or in the way that liberals are inconsequential to a revolution because the
• 6:07
  Track 2: Jedi are liberals. That's what they are. They're fucking liberals.
• 6:10
  Track 3: Yeah. Star Wars starts to suck whenever you start to realize that there's a timeline past and or.
• 6:16
  Track 3: and you're like whoa wait all this all this effort sacrifice indomitable human.
• 6:21
  Track 1: Will this is rogue one erasure yeah.
• 6:24
  Track 3: This is like you left.
• 6:25
  Track 2: Out rogue one.
• 6:26
  Track 3: Oh yeah sorry i left out rogue one rogue one's incredible too so anything past
• 6:30
  Track 3: rogue one once you remember that it's terrible because it's like all that sacrifice
• 6:34
  Track 3: all that effort by all those people thrown away because some hillbilly from
• 6:39
  Track 3: the fucking sticks with magic fucking takes out the death star like fuck off like.
• 6:44
  Track 1: My one of my favorite memes is the the
• 6:47
  Track 1: then we'll actually talk about the first episode is the
• 6:51
  Track 1: uh when they like go to destroy
• 6:54
  Track 1: the death star based on the plans that they're trying to eventually get in rogue
• 6:58
  Track 1: one is that they drive straight in like their little planes for a really long
• 7:02
  Track 1: time but the death star is round and then i see these people being like wait
• 7:06
  Track 1: is the death star flat like the you know it's Like flat Death Stars or whatever or something.
• 7:11
  Track 2: Flat Death Star Theory.
• 7:13
  Track 1: So anyway, we don't have to talk about that. We're talking about Andor.
• 7:18
  Track 1: And for anyone who doesn't also know, you probably watch it if you're listening.
• 7:21
  Track 1: But these three episodes take place one year after the previous set of three episodes.
• 7:26
  Track 1: So each three, all four sets of three, one year apart.
• 7:30
  Track 1: And this episode, the first one is titled Ever Been to Gorman.
• 7:33
  Track 1: And we finally are introduced or not finally. We're introduced to this planet of Gorman.
• 7:38
  Track 1: But I think before that, what my first kind of like note about this is,
• 7:42
  Track 1: is that there's a lot of scenes in this first episode of just what I would call
• 7:46
  Track 1: like mundane day to day life of just.
• 7:50
  Track 1: what people who were part of the revolution in this case bix and andor have
• 7:54
  Track 1: to undergo and deal with like they have to live their lives with the fact that
• 7:59
  Track 1: they've killed people they've done they've stolen they've done all these things
• 8:04
  Track 1: in the name of their revolution or their uh rebellion,
• 8:09
  Track 1: and it's like the most interesting conversations because you never see that
• 8:13
  Track 1: in any other kind of movie where they bring about like there's a revolution
• 8:17
  Track 1: hunger games whatever you want to say there's never like these simple conversations
• 8:22
  Track 1: of like what they deal with and i think that that's great.
• 8:24
  Track 2: I i do think that i don't think hunger games deserve fits into that conversation.
• 8:34
  Track 1: It was just the first thing that hit my mind.
• 8:35
  Track 2: In general yeah it's like any kind
• 8:38
  Track 2: of like thing about anything ever touches on
• 8:41
  Track 2: this kind of stuff it's always like but the glory of it and like
• 8:44
  Track 2: you know it's all it glorifies the violence and it glorifies all
• 8:47
  Track 2: the you know the heroic shit and it
• 8:49
  Track 2: never you know which kind of erases the
• 8:53
  Track 2: point how like as people that believe
• 8:56
  Track 2: in like you know the change the need for change and like
• 8:59
  Track 2: we advocate for actually like reform isn't
• 9:02
  Track 2: going to work you know there will be revolution people think we'd like
• 9:05
  Track 2: advocate for violence and i feel like that this whole
• 9:08
  Track 2: thing really kind of makes it's like nobody actually wants
• 9:11
  Track 2: that no nobody wants that like fucking we would love it if the world were better
• 9:18
  Track 2: without having to do that and like they clearly struggle with it you know like
• 9:23
  Track 2: and it's clear that they they want that everyday life cas wants to be able to go to the park.
• 9:30
  Track 1: Actually hunger games is a bad example because as you said in hunger games there
• 9:34
  Track 1: actually is a lot of grappling with like the,
• 9:37
  Track 1: suffering and the things that go into it so i i would recant that as an example
• 9:42
  Track 1: but i think the point generally stands it absolutely.
• 9:46
  Track 2: Does it absolutely does my wife is currently reading the well she just finished
• 9:51
  Track 2: the the new hunter games book action.
• 9:54
  Track 1: Oh that's funny i haven't i was i meant i started the first of the two prequels
• 9:59
  Track 1: and i just didn't get through it at some point i'll read it.
• 10:01
  Track 2: I stopped reading that one.
• 10:02
  Track 1: I didn't like it i've heard that the second one that just came out is much better.
• 10:06
  Track 2: That's what that's what jackie said.
• 10:08
  Track 1: And like one of the things that i think one of the lines i also noted
• 10:10
  Track 1: when bix and andor are like having their comp like this this
• 10:14
  Track 1: struggle is that they're at war and
• 10:17
  Track 1: i think maybe it's in the next episode that i'll
• 10:20
  Track 1: just bring in now to speak maybe erwin beats in the first one where bix also
• 10:24
  Track 1: says like this has to be worth it she like we have to win and you know because
• 10:29
  Track 1: all the things they've done and all the pain and suffering and ptsd and all
• 10:34
  Track 1: the things that go with it will only be worth it if you're victorious.
• 10:39
  Track 1: It would just be crushing to lose.
• 10:42
  Track 3: I know. Absolutely. I like that scene where like they're like the mission is dinner.
• 10:47
  Track 3: Like we got to go grocery shopping and like she's traumatized of just everything
• 10:52
  Track 3: she's been through. And so like being outside is hard for her.
• 10:55
  Track 3: And then you got Cass who's paranoid that like he's on Coruscant.
• 11:00
  Track 3: Everyone's watching like he's being watched, you know, and he can't go into
• 11:04
  Track 3: a store like he can go do all these missions, but he can't go get groceries for dinner. what's.
• 11:11
  Track 1: So funny about that to me is that he later i think in the next episode like
• 11:14
  Track 1: breaks all of the protocols of meeting with luthan and yet he.
• 11:19
  Track 3: Can't go.
• 11:19
  Track 1: To the grocer to buy like some melons and.
• 11:21
  Track 3: Yeah oh yeah no that was great and like i love that luther called him out and
• 11:26
  Track 3: it was like dude like everything you're doing is wrong in this moment like all
• 11:30
  Track 3: the rules that we've established and like he's right like dude.
• 11:32
  Track 2: That has to be.
• 11:35
  Track 3: I love that now.
• 11:36
  Track 2: Like i've never you know like that has to be some form of like PTSD,
• 11:41
  Track 2: the, the manner in which they're like, I, I do not have experience with people
• 11:46
  Track 2: that have suffered with PTSD.
• 11:49
  Track 2: Like, please, if either of you have, like, please correct me if I'm wrong.
• 11:52
  Track 2: But, like, the idea that, like, everyday things are hard to do,
• 11:57
  Track 2: but they could and still did those things that put their lives at risk,
• 12:04
  Track 2: you know, like, and that felt everyday. That felt normal.
• 12:08
  Track 1: I don't know personally. I mean, again, I'm going to, like, cite a piece of
• 12:12
  Track 1: media, which maybe isn't the best.
• 12:14
  Track 1: But I don't know if either of you have seen the show You're the Worst. It was on maybe.
• 12:18
  Track 1: Yeah. Yeah, so one of the roommates, the main character's roommate,
• 12:21
  Track 1: has fought in Iraq. And I think he was suffering PTSD.
• 12:25
  Track 1: Yes, he was. And I recall in it, he would have trouble just getting to go outside
• 12:31
  Track 1: and being a normal person.
• 12:32
  Track 1: So they very clearly show Bix's trauma. Like we know that someone tried to sexually assault her.
• 12:40
  Track 1: And then we also know that she was literally tortured. but you
• 12:43
  Track 1: don't ever the only sort of trauma you understand that andrew went through is
• 12:49
  Track 1: really like his childhood like his experience as a child as like basically an
• 12:53
  Track 1: orphan on a planet that was just destroyed by the empire and the so maybe it's
• 12:59
  Track 1: just all of these things that compound.
• 13:01
  Track 3: I mean so i can speak from a little experience that
• 13:04
  Track 3: something that you can see in cas is like the
• 13:07
  Track 3: hyper vigilance when he's out and about he's constantly thinking
• 13:10
  Track 3: that he's being watched he's constantly looking around trying
• 13:14
  Track 3: to see what's happening he starts freaking out in
• 13:17
  Track 3: the store whenever this grocery owner like seems to
• 13:19
  Track 3: be too like personable with bix it's like oh now
• 13:23
  Track 3: we're starting a relationship this guy's gonna know us that means
• 13:26
  Track 3: he could fucking report us that like level of hypervigilance that's
• 13:29
  Track 3: absolutely a symptom of ptsd and um i mean a great example of another like besides
• 13:38
  Track 3: like his his childhood trauma coming into it is um his need to help everybody
• 13:42
  Track 3: because he couldn't help his sister yeah like that's his biggest drive one of his biggest drives,
• 13:49
  Track 3: as a character it's incredible.
• 13:50
  Track 1: Yeah that's true.
• 13:52
  Track 2: That's true i think i think it is um
• 13:56
  Track 2: i think it's a a a missed
• 14:00
  Track 2: opportunity like a miss to say that like he has
• 14:02
  Track 2: not suffered from any trauma other than
• 14:05
  Track 2: uh his childhood because well
• 14:10
  Track 2: first of all we know for a fact that he you know from season one he grew up
• 14:15
  Track 2: under constant worry put into him by marva that they would find out who he was
• 14:22
  Track 2: it's like he lived he grew up his entire life being like under threat of under
• 14:27
  Track 2: be and end up of under being at a watch i.
• 14:30
  Track 3: Mean he was also in the teenage labor camps.
• 14:32
  Track 2: Yeah let's.
• 14:33
  Track 3: Not forget that.
• 14:34
  Track 2: And yeah and then also just the idea
• 14:38
  Track 2: that like and what i i think is i don't know
• 14:40
  Track 2: whether they are making this point but i
• 14:44
  Track 2: think it's worth pointing out that like living in a
• 14:48
  Track 2: capitalist system as a member of
• 14:51
  Track 2: the proletariat is in and of itself traumatic stressful and constantly puts
• 14:57
  Track 2: you in a state of like fight or flight but also like struggle like survival
• 15:03
  Track 2: mentality and like how to respond to things but that in and of itself and like
• 15:08
  Track 2: he wasn't you know especially if you're,
• 15:11
  Track 2: you know as proletariat but like if you're even like more deprived like you know like,
• 15:17
  Track 2: they weren't fucking living like you know they were not they were not petty
• 15:20
  Track 2: bourgeois they were not even you know like artisan class you know like they
• 15:24
  Track 2: were poor you know they think we i think that's clear yeah that kind of life is traumatic.
• 15:30
  Track 1: Yeah and we also have the conversation where he's you know the um oh when his father.
• 15:36
  Track 3: Is killed by storm clones.
• 15:38
  Track 1: Well that that well.
• 15:39
  Track 2: That and then And also.
• 15:40
  Track 1: I was going to say his, you know, when they're leaving the grain planet from
• 15:45
  Track 1: the episode three and he rescues Bix from there, he also shoots a, what is it, a child?
• 15:54
  Track 1: Doesn't he shoot someone and they're having a conversation with Bix about it
• 15:57
  Track 1: in this season? Or is it Bix?
• 16:00
  Track 3: Oh, no, no, no. That happens off screen. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 16:04
  Track 3: he shot a uh imperial stormtrooper who
• 16:07
  Track 3: seemed to have defected oh
• 16:10
  Track 3: right right and of some sort or they're dealing with an imperial like soldier
• 16:17
  Track 3: who was and bix thought there it seemed like bix thought there was like uh potential
• 16:23
  Track 3: and cast didn't take the risk and killed him.
• 16:27
  Track 1: Yeah and he was like then And yeah, that would be pretty traumatic to question
• 16:32
  Track 1: a decision you're making. Yeah.
• 16:33
  Track 1: So yeah, it's all these traumas.
• 16:37
  Track 1: And like, I think it leads, there'll be more interesting, I think,
• 16:40
  Track 1: parts about that in the, you know, his...
• 16:43
  Track 1: how he wavers to do future missions because of it.
• 16:48
  Track 1: And part of that is what we find out in this episode is about Gorman.
• 16:53
  Track 1: So what we in the Cyril is now, I don't want to use the word dating because
• 17:00
  Track 1: I don't really think he's dating.
• 17:01
  Track 2: When is there?
• 17:03
  Track 3: Yeah. What is that? I want to like boy toy. Like I want to say they're dating
• 17:08
  Track 3: because they had the fucking mom.
• 17:11
  Track 2: Yeah. You don't do that. Honestly, yeah. With one boy.
• 17:14
  Track 1: But yeah.
• 17:15
  Track 3: At this point, are they married?
• 17:17
  Track 1: They don't say, but the mother...
• 17:19
  Track 3: Or are they still like seriously dating?
• 17:21
  Track 1: I think we...
• 17:22
  Track 3: Yeah, because... Well, Cyril's undercover. We can't take what the mom says seriously.
• 17:26
  Track 1: That's true. That's true. And I love that though.
• 17:31
  Track 1: When he's like walking to his little post on Gorman and he's talking to his
• 17:36
  Track 1: mom and the mom is like... They're like arguing about the propaganda and things
• 17:40
  Track 1: that are being told. and they're each, you know, oh, I can't believe what you hear on TV.
• 17:45
  Track 1: And it's sort of like, yeah, no shit.
• 17:48
  Track 3: Yeah, no, I love that. I love that, like that little short buildup where you're
• 17:52
  Track 3: like, oh, maybe some bad shit happened to Cyril.
• 17:55
  Track 3: Maybe he's like, you know, seeing some light. Oh, no, of course not.
• 17:59
  Track 2: Yeah, that was, that entire episode.
• 18:03
  Track 3: It was so beautifully done.
• 18:04
  Track 2: Masterfully done. I went into that episode thinking, like as that went on,
• 18:09
  Track 2: I was like, are we going to get a Cyril defecting storyline?
• 18:14
  Track 2: I'm like, is that what we're getting?
• 18:17
  Track 3: I thought it was going to be cool if it was.
• 18:19
  Track 2: Yeah, me too. I was hyped for it.
• 18:21
  Track 1: He was pretty good, I have to say, at his setting the little string at the bottom.
• 18:29
  Track 1: I suspect a lot of this was Deidre and them training him to do this.
• 18:32
  Track 1: I don't think he had these skills upon him.
• 18:35
  Track 1: He's not like Jason Bourne. They just played a, trained him.
• 18:39
  Track 3: Nah, he got hogtied in season one.
• 18:41
  Track 1: Yeah.
• 18:42
  Track 3: Like, come on.
• 18:44
  Track 2: I would love to know what...
• 18:47
  Track 2: The media environment in Star Wars is like the Star Wars universe.
• 18:51
  Track 3: We got a snippet of some talk television, and we also got a snippet of pod racing sports TV.
• 18:59
  Track 1: Yeah.
• 19:00
  Track 3: That's like really all we got of what media is like outside of Senate broadcast.
• 19:06
  Track 2: Yeah.
• 19:06
  Track 1: I bet it's lots of gambling and, you know, like FanDuel advertisements or whatever.
• 19:12
  Track 2: FanDuel, oh God.
• 19:14
  Track 1: Because that's literally all that sports is now. it's like sports
• 19:17
  Track 1: and then gambling advertisements and i suspect there's a lot of gambling in
• 19:21
  Track 1: the star wars universe in general about all that you know especially like han
• 19:25
  Track 1: solo plays that game i forget what it's called like the card thing you know
• 19:30
  Track 1: where he plays lando to win the millennium falcon anyway i.
• 19:34
  Track 3: Mean jedis even make bets about like the ownership of children.
• 19:40
  Track 1: Yeah i mean we're talking about a world where slavery exists so i don't think
• 19:44
  Track 1: the media is exactly going to be uh you know top notch uh but it almost seems
• 19:52
  Track 1: like people don't watch tv in star wars they.
• 19:56
  Track 2: Don't seem to have tvs.
• 19:57
  Track 3: I just think that's like we don't have the perspective of people like cyril's
• 20:04
  Track 3: mom who sit at home and like comfortable she watches a lot of tv but like Like, that hideout,
• 20:11
  Track 3: Luthan's hideout that Bix and Cass are in, there's no TV in there.
• 20:15
  Track 3: Look around that place. There ain't no TV. So, of course, we're not seeing a lot more TV.
• 20:19
  Track 1: That's true. Yeah, the people you're, the perception. Yeah, like,
• 20:23
  Track 1: do you think that the rebels on.
• 20:25
  Track 3: Do you want a fucking Truman show, like, where it follows an individual random,
• 20:30
  Track 3: like, average dude from Star Wars? I mean, I kind of might be into that more
• 20:35
  Track 3: than the new Maltz series you're talking about.
• 20:37
  Track 2: As a world-building lover, yes. Yes, I do. I want that. I want a David.
• 20:42
  Track 3: Actually, now that's more than I think of it, I actually would love a normal-ass person.
• 20:46
  Track 2: I want a David Attenborough-style nature documentary about Star Wars.
• 20:50
  Track 2: Honestly, ever since my childhood, I gotta be honest.
• 20:53
  Track 2: I've never loved Jedi as much as I loved, even as a child. The random-ass animals in Star Wars.
• 21:01
  Track 3: You a Sarlacc fan?
• 21:03
  Track 2: Yeah, I mean, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 21:06
  Track 3: They're pretty fucking sick.
• 21:07
  Track 2: But, like, also those, like, weird, like, frogs that look like lily pads.
• 21:10
  Track 2: Because, you know, remember that big book?
• 21:13
  Track 2: It was just all Star Wars animals. Fucking the greatest book in the world. Yeah.
• 21:16
  Track 1: When they're on, when they show their scenes, like, on Yavin 4,
• 21:19
  Track 1: where, like, the rebels are living, it's not like they're sitting in their little
• 21:23
  Track 1: jungle, like, bungalows, like, watching TV.
• 21:26
  Track 1: Like, they're busy planning or they're resting. Like, that's kind of...
• 21:30
  Track 3: Yeah, well, they live in those temple ruins, so they don't have to build nothing
• 21:34
  Track 3: in the jungle, really. except for like the fucking landing pads.
• 21:37
  Track 2: They like, you know, they do have.
• 21:39
  Track 3: But how did they get rid of the nocturnal animals?
• 21:41
  Track 2: That's it. I want to know what's up with the nocturnal animals.
• 21:44
  Track 3: Did they genocide? Like, did they exterminate them all? Genocide all those fucking dudes?
• 21:49
  Track 2: I like to think they just have big electric fences and they just, you know, they're just.
• 21:54
  Track 1: But they work more effectively than the ones in Jurassic Park.
• 21:57
  Track 2: Well, yeah, obviously. I mean, Nedry isn't behind them.
• 22:02
  Track 1: Yes, that's true.
• 22:03
  Track 3: Expenses were spared on these fences okay yeah.
• 22:06
  Track 1: Like the thing about uh the like the gorman
• 22:09
  Track 1: plan like so i think i don't know if we probably didn't talk about this before
• 22:12
  Track 1: maybe like offline we did so i see a lot of things about how like the because
• 22:16
  Track 1: we're introduced like the gorman resistance and they speak what's basically
• 22:20
  Track 1: a language that they use french and they they added some syllables i don't i
• 22:24
  Track 1: read about a little bit like how they create space france yeah space like do you think 100%.
• 22:29
  Track 2: Tell it's French. Like, it's so obvious.
• 22:32
  Track 1: I saw a take that said that the Gorman's resistance was supposed to be a mirroring
• 22:39
  Track 1: of, like, the French Revolution.
• 22:42
  Track 1: And I don't see that, really.
• 22:45
  Track 1: I mean, again, I think we maybe talked about it, or maybe we haven't,
• 22:49
  Track 1: is sort of the, you see, like, the fomenting of this protest movement kind of
• 22:53
  Track 1: on the planet, like, starting.
• 22:55
  Track 1: and i don't know i i don't know why they chose it to be french and maybe because
• 23:00
  Track 1: it's a planet where they make clothes and that just sounded french.
• 23:03
  Track 2: I do like it does
• 23:06
  Track 2: not feel like the french revolution today no now mind you i am not a scholar
• 23:11
  Track 2: of the french revolution i don't know my history of the french revolution like
• 23:15
  Track 2: as well as i'm sure other you know many people do but i do think that like it
• 23:21
  Track 2: is an interesting choice to make them very like French coded because,
• 23:28
  Track 2: living in the world we live in,
• 23:32
  Track 2: And you see, like, you know, you'll see media about, like, you know,
• 23:36
  Track 2: France being, like, oh, we're going to, like, push back the retirement age.
• 23:41
  Track 2: And then the French riot and they, you know, throw manure on the things and
• 23:47
  Track 2: they do all the shit, right?
• 23:48
  Track 2: And people are like, why can't Americans be like the French?
• 23:55
  Track 2: And then, but if you actually, like, look at it, like, yes, the French do those things.
• 24:00
  Track 2: But the French, as a population, yes, you see them do those things,
• 24:07
  Track 2: but they also don't give a shit about anybody outside of France.
• 24:12
  Track 2: They don't give a shit about the colonialism their country does.
• 24:16
  Track 2: They don't protest for that. They don't protest over, you know,
• 24:22
  Track 2: the, the fact that the, that the French government, you know,
• 24:25
  Track 2: controlled like large parts of Africa for fucking how, what half of such,
• 24:32
  Track 2: like it is such the, like, yeah,
• 24:35
  Track 2: France, the French people have such a like quote unquote revolutionary or like,
• 24:41
  Track 2: you know, like protest culture, but it's all petty bourgeois.
• 24:46
  Track 2: like it's all bourgeois liberalism protest.
• 24:52
  Track 2: It's never in solidarity with anyone outside of them. It's never in solidarity
• 24:56
  Track 2: with the people, their, their country oppresses.
• 24:58
  Track 2: It is never anything beyond that.
• 25:02
  Track 2: It is all superficial, which is how the Gorman revolution feels to me.
• 25:08
  Track 2: Very on the surface and only concerned with themselves. And they couldn't give
• 25:13
  Track 2: a shit less about what happens to anybody else.
• 25:16
  Track 3: No, I agree, because I mean...
• 25:20
  Track 3: Which is funny, because we hear about the Gorman front in season one, Saw talking about it.
• 25:25
  Track 3: We get tidbits of Gorman here and there, and we know the history,
• 25:30
  Track 3: the first Gorman massacre when Moff Tarkin was trying to land,
• 25:34
  Track 3: and a history of protesting, but they don't really do anything.
• 25:38
  Track 3: But it's kind of crazy just hearing Bill repeat the Empire's point that Gormans
• 25:43
  Track 3: are uppity and only care about themselves.
• 25:47
  Track 2: Wow that is not how i expected that to go i.
• 25:52
  Track 3: Couldn't resist i couldn't resist.
• 25:54
  Track 1: Well what if i quote directly from carl marx's 1852
• 25:58
  Track 1: the 18th broom air of louis bonaparte where he says the proletarian party appears
• 26:04
  Track 1: as an appendage of the petty bourgeoisie democratic party it is betrayed and
• 26:08
  Track 1: dropped by the latter and then it says you know the the period that we had before
• 26:12
  Track 1: us comprises the mostly motley mixture of crying contradictions,
• 26:16
  Track 1: constitutionalists who conspire openly against the constitution revolutionists
• 26:21
  Track 1: who are confessedly constitutional.
• 26:24
  Track 1: And you have all the, like, I'm not going to read the whole thing.
• 26:26
  Track 1: It's a lot of, it's many, many words, but I think it is clearly this petty bourgeois group.
• 26:33
  Track 2: The American left or the performative American left and the performative,
• 26:38
  Track 2: like, aspect of organizers in the United States who are not part of a party,
• 26:43
  Track 2: who are not like, oh, Marxist-Leninist, I'm part of a party, I do this, da-da-da.
• 26:48
  Track 2: Those constantly prop up what the French do as some kind of fucking great thing.
• 26:54
  Track 2: And it's like, all they ever do is just all... They don't give a shit when an,
• 27:00
  Track 2: immigrant from Senegal...
• 27:01
  Track 2: The white French protesters by and large don't give a shit when an immigrant
• 27:07
  Track 2: from Senegal gets murdered by the cops in France.
• 27:09
  Track 2: They don't fucking, they don't take to the streets over that.
• 27:12
  Track 2: They take to the streets over my retirement age went out. Which,
• 27:16
  Track 2: listen, we should be doing that here.
• 27:18
  Track 2: But that's the bare fucking minimum.
• 27:21
  Track 3: Right?
• 27:22
  Track 1: Yeah. They're not anti-imperialists.
• 27:26
  Track 2: Right. And that's like the key. You can't be – you can't fight against the exploitation
• 27:34
  Track 2: and oppression of yourself and ignore the oppression and exploitation of other
• 27:40
  Track 2: people. It doesn't work that way.
• 27:41
  Track 2: We are not – no one's free unless we're all free.
• 27:45
  Track 1: Let me ask you this question and, I mean –.
• 27:48
  Track 3: Like to play devil's.
• 27:50
  Track 1: Advocate like do.
• 27:50
  Track 3: You real quick real quick real quick bill i'm super proud of us for maintaining
• 27:55
  Track 3: the tradition of being the most of whenever we're on a left of the projector
• 28:00
  Track 3: episode it being the most theory heavy this time we got fucking evan to pull
• 28:05
  Track 3: out theory dude like i'm so happy like.
• 28:08
  Track 2: Literally quote but yeah well.
• 28:10
  Track 3: Dude oh it was so beautiful i just had to mention that well what i was gonna say.
• 28:15
  Track 1: Is like if you think about like this is just purely this This is speculation
• 28:18
  Track 1: of just like the Star Wars universe.
• 28:20
  Track 1: There's countless planets in all these places. And most of these planets at
• 28:24
  Track 1: this point are now feeling the, like the boot of the Empire.
• 28:28
  Track 1: They're, they're getting taxed higher.
• 28:30
  Track 1: They're getting, you know, they have presents on their planet.
• 28:33
  Track 1: They're all getting, all their shit's getting fucked up.
• 28:35
  Track 1: But how many of these planets outside of Gorman do you think as they're starting
• 28:42
  Track 1: to either get recruited to the cause or like they realize there's a rebellion,
• 28:46
  Track 1: that they're trying to build or whatever they know about it,
• 28:49
  Track 1: they probably don't necessarily think about the needs and the scorn and the
• 28:56
  Track 1: problems of other planets.
• 28:57
  Track 1: I think that most of these planets probably in the Star Wars universe are thinking
• 29:03
  Track 1: inward to their own personal problems until they are fully radicalized and realize
• 29:08
  Track 1: that they are part of a global,
• 29:10
  Track 1: not global, galactic cause.
• 29:13
  Track 1: So I think there's like the Gormans, which is why Luthan I think in the second
• 29:17
  Track 1: episode wants to send Andor there is he sees this petty bourgeois planet starting
• 29:24
  Track 1: to go on their side and if they can show this them being on their side to other
• 29:28
  Track 1: petty bourgeois planets,
• 29:30
  Track 1: they will join the cause and they will have an actual you know,
• 29:34
  Track 1: intergalactic rebellion, not just the people who have been at the booth for
• 29:41
  Track 1: longer, like Andor as like children.
• 29:44
  Track 2: I have to push you back on that by pointing out by pointing out that,
• 29:49
  Track 2: Like, you literally, you're like, they joined the cause. And,
• 29:53
  Track 2: like, there's representatives of theirs on Yavin.
• 29:57
  Track 2: Like, you never once hear, let's talk to the Gorman guy on Yavin.
• 30:02
  Track 2: Like, we should send the Gorman guy from, who's on Yavin, to fucking Gorman. No.
• 30:10
  Track 2: It's, let's send Cass to Gorman. And then Gorman's like, what can you do for us?
• 30:16
  Track 1: That's true.
• 30:17
  Track 2: We want to help. not what not where we want to be part of this larger struggle
• 30:22
  Track 2: what can you do for us what can you bring us.
• 30:25
  Track 1: Without a doubt i mean that's that's like the big thing in episode two
• 30:29
  Track 1: when not episode two episode five of the
• 30:31
  Track 1: show the episode two we're going to talk about when and or
• 30:34
  Track 1: goes there as his like the coolest uh valerian
• 30:39
  Track 1: as varians i keep saying valerians guy and
• 30:43
  Track 1: he's they're like not impressed by him
• 30:45
  Track 1: like for one they're also terrible at their like you
• 30:49
  Track 1: know at they just like go up to him in the middle of the
• 30:51
  Track 1: restaurant assuming that it's him like but if they were wrong they would have
• 30:54
  Track 1: just like out of themselves but yet you're right like they're like what should
• 30:58
  Track 1: have you done and they say the same thing to uh to um vel and cinta vel and
• 31:03
  Track 1: cinta like they don't like want to listen to them like what should have you
• 31:06
  Track 1: done obviously they're not going to tell them the shit that they've done yeah.
• 31:09
  Track 3: No who the fuck are you why would i tell you what i've done.
• 31:13
  Track 1: Yeah and like they're coming i.
• 31:14
  Track 3: Know what i'm doing and it's clear you don't yeah.
• 31:17
  Track 1: Yeah and yeah so i think i i yeah i see you're saying bill i i would uh i would
• 31:22
  Track 1: agree with that and then like the last thing that we find like the last thing on the episode,
• 31:27
  Track 1: four is what's happening on coruscance like those like the three things happen simultaneously,
• 31:32
  Track 1: and this is really the only thing that really happens aside
• 31:35
  Track 1: from luther uh luthering kind of seeing that
• 31:38
  Track 1: bix is having uh you know struggling and is doing drugs
• 31:41
  Track 1: and you know just to help her sleep i mean god
• 31:44
  Track 1: forbid someone takes an edible before they go to bed and like you know
• 31:47
  Track 1: the what you know
• 31:50
  Track 1: and he's like warning her about it but the other one is the isb meeting between
• 31:55
  Track 1: uh pentagrass and cyril and deidre like talking about their plan but deidre
• 32:01
  Track 1: and pentagrass like having the like wink wink after he leaves saying we can't
• 32:06
  Track 1: tell him that he's essentially plotting a genocide,
• 32:11
  Track 1: and again any scene in that room that little round white room baller.
• 32:16
  Track 3: It's such a good time in that room why is it such a good time in that room?
• 32:20
  Track 2: It feels so wrong but like I genuinely I,
• 32:26
  Track 2: Feel bad for syrup sometimes.
• 32:30
  Track 3: I mean, you're falling into like that well-written character stuff, man. You're just like.
• 32:38
  Track 2: He's so clearly being taken for a ride.
• 32:41
  Track 3: Oh, for sure.
• 32:42
  Track 1: Well, see, that's the point where I say he's not dating.
• 32:46
  Track 1: He's not really dating Deidre. Like he thinks he is. I think that she both is
• 32:52
  Track 1: using him and also, like, needs him because she's just lonely as shit.
• 32:56
  Track 3: I mean, yeah, okay, that too.
• 32:58
  Track 2: Yeah.
• 32:58
  Track 3: Yeah, no, now that you said the lonely thing.
• 33:00
  Track 1: Yeah. Like, think about it. She's in this room with basically all men. She's lonely.
• 33:05
  Track 1: She doesn't like any of them. They're all, like, horrible people like she is. I can't be with them.
• 33:10
  Track 1: Cyril actually does seem to care about things.
• 33:14
  Track 1: Unfortunately, what he cares about is the Empire.
• 33:16
  Track 2: Yeah.
• 33:17
  Track 3: Yeah.
• 33:18
  Track 2: Well, it's the thing. It's like Cyril really is like he is our,
• 33:24
  Track 2: our look at an ordinary citizen in the empire, like an ordinary,
• 33:30
  Track 2: like patriotic citizen that is the patriotic American.
• 33:36
  Track 2: Like, Oh, you know, we're going to do when we're do we're fighting the good fight.
• 33:41
  Track 2: We really are the freest country and we're, we're, they hate us for our freedoms.
• 33:47
  Track 2: Like they, they, He is the average patriotic American.
• 33:54
  Track 1: And if you think about it this way, he's like the guy who put his American flag
• 33:58
  Track 1: outside of his house after 9-11 and then joined some group and then, you know.
• 34:06
  Track 3: Listen to all those country songs.
• 34:08
  Track 1: Yeah, he had like a George Bush tattoo.
• 34:11
  Track 2: He was right there with, what's his face, Marky Mark. He was right there with
• 34:16
  Track 2: Wahlberg. You know, if I was on that plane.
• 34:18
  Track 3: If he came from a little bit sandier of a planet, he would have got the fucking
• 34:23
  Track 3: back of his speeder painted in a mural of like 9-11. Remember?
• 34:31
  Track 1: Mission accomplished. Oh, yeah.
• 34:34
  Track 1: Yeah. I mean, I can see why you could like feel bad for him.
• 34:39
  Track 1: But then at the same time, he was.
• 34:43
  Track 1: But let me ask you this then.
• 34:45
  Track 2: I just feel good is a strong word.
• 34:47
  Track 2: I recognize where he comes from.
• 34:50
  Track 1: Pity. Yeah, you pity him.
• 34:52
  Track 3: Pity's a good one.
• 34:53
  Track 2: Yeah, that's...
• 34:54
  Track 1: The question is this, though. How was he sort of radicalized to support the
• 34:59
  Track 1: Empire if there's no media to help that process?
• 35:03
  Track 2: There must be.
• 35:05
  Track 3: There's got to be media. I'm telling you. We just don't see it.
• 35:08
  Track 1: Yeah. It's not important.
• 35:09
  Track 3: Like as much as we would enjoy like
• 35:13
  Track 3: the followings of an everyday person like through
• 35:16
  Track 3: the fucking fall of the republican rise of the empire um they're not making
• 35:22
  Track 3: that show no they're not fucking making that show they're not making another
• 35:26
  Track 3: show the dude that like works fucking 16 hour days and then watches tv for three
• 35:31
  Track 3: hours because he doesn't want to go to sleep just yet because, you know,
• 35:37
  Track 3: I want to feel like I have some time for myself, you know, and so I'm going
• 35:41
  Track 3: to sacrifice my sleep, you know, like we all do.
• 35:45
  Track 1: Here's my TV show pitch to Tony Gilroy, all right?
• 35:49
  Track 1: It's a TV show about a TV show, like newsroom, but in the Star Wars universe, and it's evil.
• 35:56
  Track 1: So you follow a TV show, a propaganda show in the Star Wars universe,
• 36:01
  Track 1: like from the perspective of feeding it out to the people.
• 36:05
  Track 2: I'd watch that.
• 36:06
  Track 3: Oh have it be like a corporate news too so like yeah like cnn aren't the anchors
• 36:12
  Track 3: aren't fully in on it but you know there is an imperial office in the back that
• 36:18
  Track 3: uh oversees all the scripts and everything and so like we gotta keep it hush-hush
• 36:22
  Track 3: what our personal actual personal opinions are that would be the.
• 36:26
  Track 1: The ISB has like their liaison for like.
• 36:29
  Track 2: I'd watch media. I'd watch that a hundred percent.
• 36:32
  Track 3: That'd be so good. So good.
• 36:35
  Track 1: So, Tony Gilroy, when you listen to this podcast.
• 36:37
  Track 2: When you listen to this.
• 36:38
  Track 1: When you listen to this in your car on the way to work.
• 36:40
  Track 3: And before you're on with us.
• 36:42
  Track 1: Just call me. Just call me, Tony. Yeah. You know. Fun fact. Tony Gilroy was born on 9-11.
• 36:49
  Track 2: Well, not actual.
• 36:51
  Track 1: No, no.
• 36:52
  Track 2: Not the 9-11. Yeah, not. He's 25.
• 36:55
  Track 3: Not the day the towers got.
• 36:57
  Track 1: No, he's not that young. He was born in 1956. 56.
• 37:01
  Track 1: Well, so in the episode six, the second episode of this grouping,
• 37:06
  Track 1: I think is when we were, I already kind of alluded to it, is there's several.
• 37:10
  Track 3: Is that episode five?
• 37:11
  Track 1: Episode five. Oh, and episode six.
• 37:12
  Track 3: There we go. Episode five, which is episode two.
• 37:15
  Track 1: Oh, you're right. Episode five.
• 37:16
  Track 3: Yeah.
• 37:17
  Track 2: Yes.
• 37:19
  Track 1: I was like, I.
• 37:20
  Track 3: You're giving yourself too many numbers to work with, my man.
• 37:23
  Track 1: I know that that's the. Well, then we also got the BBY, you know,
• 37:27
  Track 1: bullshit. Anyway, I was looking at the wrong section of my notes.
• 37:30
  Track 1: But like this, so there's like, in this episode, there's still also like three simultaneous plots.
• 37:36
  Track 1: You have like the stuff that's happening on Gorman, because we have now Variant Sky is going there.
• 37:42
  Track 1: And we have like the stuff that's happening on Coruscant. I think I actually
• 37:45
  Track 1: screwed up a minute ago and was talking about Bix and Luthan and Luthan.
• 37:49
  Track 1: That happens actually in episode five. It doesn't matter.
• 37:53
  Track 3: It's fine.
• 37:53
  Track 1: It's close.
• 37:54
  Track 3: It's all within this. You should
• 37:56
  Track 3: you listening at home. You should have watched all three before this.
• 37:59
  Track 1: Yeah.
• 38:00
  Track 3: You should have watched all of it by now, honestly, and rewatched at least these
• 38:04
  Track 3: three by now before listening to this.
• 38:06
  Track 1: Well, my favorite plot line of this episode, episode five, is Clea having to
• 38:12
  Track 1: go to Skaldin's party to get rid of the listening device that she has there.
• 38:17
  Track 1: And she has to get Lonnie to stand in the way and it's super tense.
• 38:21
  Track 1: And it's happening simultaneously as the shit that's happening on.
• 38:26
  Track 1: Did I fuck up? Is this in the next episode?
• 38:28
  Track 3: Yeah, you fucked up. That's in episode six.
• 38:29
  Track 1: All right, I'll cut that off.
• 38:31
  Track 3: I was just about to say something, bud.
• 38:33
  Track 1: Yeah.
• 38:33
  Track 2: Now, this is when she brings up, this is when she finds out.
• 38:38
  Track 1: Yeah, she learns that the listening device is there, or that she has to get
• 38:41
  Track 1: rid of it because they're going to re-evaluate.
• 38:43
  Track 3: Yeah, they're doing it, yeah, re-evaluate, inspect everything because there's a fake piece.
• 38:47
  Track 1: And this is also the, like,
• 38:52
  Track 1: where the Resistance is now seriously recruiting Cyril on Gorman because they
• 38:57
  Track 1: think they have this, you know, super great person who's going to,
• 39:02
  Track 1: you know, give them information.
• 39:03
  Track 1: And what I think is even funnier is that when Cassian and Orr gets there,
• 39:08
  Track 1: he's like, this is what they do.
• 39:10
  Track 1: They feed false information to people like you and they're like,
• 39:13
  Track 1: nah, he wouldn't do that to us.
• 39:15
  Track 2: Like yeah fucking stupids like immediately he immediately calls them on it and
• 39:21
  Track 2: they're like no it's not possible and then they go to lutheran we're not impressed
• 39:24
  Track 2: by him it's like if you would listen to him i.
• 39:29
  Track 1: Mean this is why you have the chain of command in these situations and they
• 39:34
  Track 1: in every step of the way the gormans do not listen and it,
• 39:39
  Track 1: It brings in Cyril as like a spy for them, who then in the final episode of
• 39:45
  Track 1: this grouping in episode six, when they do the heist of the weapons on Gorman,
• 39:52
  Track 1: Cyril's able to watch the whole thing and fucking their stupid ass young kid shoots Finta.
• 40:00
  Track 2: They don't listen to anyone. They don't even listen to their own supposed chain of command.
• 40:06
  Track 2: Everything the Gorman do is a
• 40:10
  Track 2: textbook case of the dangers of
• 40:15
  Track 2: horizontal leadership and the failure of horizontal leadership to take accountability
• 40:22
  Track 2: for anything and move forward with accountability to each other and yourself and follow through.
• 40:32
  Track 2: Because even the people that are seemingly in charge are constantly disregarded,
• 40:39
  Track 2: which if you tell someone in a horizontal methodology, if you imply someone
• 40:47
  Track 2: is in charge because it always ends up that way,
• 40:49
  Track 2: and then you defer to them in any way, shape, or form, even if it's not officially,
• 40:54
  Track 2: and then things don't go right.
• 40:56
  Track 2: That leader who isn't a leader isn't held accountable and then they continue
• 41:01
  Track 2: to make and contribute to bad choices.
• 41:05
  Track 1: Yeah.
• 41:06
  Track 3: Completely agree. And it's crazy too because it's so silly with the Gorman.
• 41:11
  Track 3: Like their whole thing is like anytime they get told to do something,
• 41:14
  Track 3: they're like, it's the same argument every single time.
• 41:19
  Track 3: I am Gore. I know better.
• 41:22
  Track 2: Yep.
• 41:23
  Track 3: Like, fuck, dude.
• 41:25
  Track 2: Pure nationalism.
• 41:27
  Track 1: Yeah. Oh, God. I mean, if, what was I going to say?
• 41:31
  Track 1: If Saw Gerrera was there, he would have just killed them all where they stood.
• 41:38
  Track 2: Just Saw Gerrera just like bloodbath.
• 41:40
  Track 1: He would genocide the fucking, you know, the revolutionaries there and be like,
• 41:45
  Track 1: we're going to take it from here, buddy.
• 41:47
  Track 2: I would love a conversation. I would love to see an outtake where Saw Gerrera
• 41:52
  Track 2: meets the Gormans and then hooks up with Luthan and they have a conversation about the Gormans.
• 41:58
  Track 1: It's like, these fucking French dudes in their berets have got to go.
• 42:03
  Track 2: I would pay money for that. I would pay money. Oh, man.
• 42:07
  Track 1: So this is another random thing I noticed when I rewatched it and just a theory
• 42:12
  Track 1: I had. So in this episode, too, like Cyril has to vacate their like his his
• 42:17
  Track 1: office, the whatever the government agency he works for and blanking on it.
• 42:23
  Track 1: They find the listening device, which the Gormans were using.
• 42:26
  Track 1: Do you think that Deidre made that happen?
• 42:29
  Track 1: Like she knew, they knew there was a device there and they reported it on themselves
• 42:33
  Track 1: to deepen Cyril's, you know, potential support for like, because he like is
• 42:39
  Track 1: extra mad about it or is it that he's playing along and he knows what they're doing?
• 42:43
  Track 2: I've wondered that the whole time.
• 42:45
  Track 3: He's definitely playing. He's, I think he's definitely playing along.
• 42:49
  Track 3: I think that is the Gorman front's listening device, but he's playing it off as like, you know,
• 42:58
  Track 3: the still hating ISB for getting fired from Primor Security Corp friendly Gorman type.
• 43:07
  Track 3: And I think he does it extremely well, you know, like giving ISB shit as soon
• 43:12
  Track 3: as they come into the office. Like, no, no, no, this is my office.
• 43:14
  Track 3: Like, who are you? No, no, no.
• 43:16
  Track 3: Call headquarters. All right. As he gets dragged out.
• 43:18
  Track 3: Yeah, no. He plays his role incredibly well as the undercover double agent.
• 43:24
  Track 2: Which is kind of a shame because it's like wasted talents. Yeah, exactly.
• 43:30
  Track 1: Imagine if he knew who Andor was later and was like, oh, I actually don't like
• 43:37
  Track 1: any of this and I will join your revolution. Yeah.
• 43:42
  Track 1: And so we, I have our, because I already like skipped over, we already talked
• 43:45
  Track 1: about like the shit with, um, Luthan and his like suspection suspecting Bix for using drugs.
• 43:51
  Track 1: And why it doesn't suspect he like literally finds like the drugs there.
• 43:55
  Track 1: It's very, also it's very clear that they just sell drugs like at the grocery store.
• 43:59
  Track 2: Yeah. We could just, yeah. I mean what? New Jersey does too now.
• 44:03
  Track 1: I guess that's true. I guess.
• 44:05
  Track 3: Is that, is that not just capitalism? I mean, remember back in the day you could
• 44:09
  Track 3: just get laudanum and codeine.
• 44:11
  Track 3: cocaine from the fucking store way back and went.
• 44:14
  Track 1: Yeah the only reason they stopped doing that is because pharmaceutical companies
• 44:16
  Track 1: wanted to make the money off it.
• 44:18
  Track 3: Yeah so i mean it's.
• 44:19
  Track 2: Not that weird.
• 44:20
  Track 3: Companies wanted to make even more profit i can see it.
• 44:23
  Track 1: So yeah we were talking before about like what it would be like to see just
• 44:26
  Track 1: sort of a a worker's perspective from this i think the one you get in this which
• 44:31
  Track 1: is great which you get twice which we won't talk about the second time is the
• 44:35
  Track 1: bellhop at the hotel when when andor gets there and at first he's like he's
• 44:39
  Track 1: doesn't want to talk to him because he's, you know, afraid.
• 44:43
  Track 3: No, he's told not to.
• 44:44
  Track 1: Well, he's told not to, right. And then he sort of opened it up.
• 44:46
  Track 3: He's told not to by management, yeah.
• 44:48
  Track 1: I had this suspicion.
• 44:50
  Track 2: Gorman.
• 44:51
  Track 1: This is probably way off. I think that the bellhop doesn't believe Andor's cover story.
• 44:57
  Track 1: Like that he's this, you know, designer guy. Because he doesn't seem to really
• 45:00
  Track 1: know very much about the history of this place that he's like dreamed of going
• 45:05
  Track 1: to. Maybe I'm reading too much into it.
• 45:07
  Track 2: I think he's the best Gorman on the entire show. Hands down.
• 45:12
  Track 3: Honestly, yeah. But like I don't think he knew like from the jump.
• 45:18
  Track 1: No, probably not.
• 45:18
  Track 3: Maybe he had like a suspicion and then in like the later episode we can talk about something else.
• 45:25
  Track 2: I think, honestly, like, if we, like,
• 45:29
  Track 2: again, to go back to, like, the Gorman revolution and, like,
• 45:33
  Track 2: the revolutionaries in Gorman and what they actually are and how they,
• 45:37
  Track 2: the fact that, like, that kid, there is a difference between that kid and them.
• 45:43
  Track 2: Most of the other, like, Gorman revolutionaries are, you know, they're artisans.
• 45:49
  Track 2: you know there he is a worker and they
• 45:53
  Track 2: say to him like don't you know whatever right but we
• 45:56
  Track 2: get a glimpse and i think evan is correct to a certain
• 45:59
  Track 2: point like i think evan is correct and like and i think
• 46:01
  Track 2: it's a credit to the point like they don't give credit to like this guy like
• 46:05
  Track 2: listen when you're a person that does that like every day and you interact with
• 46:09
  Track 2: like people every day that walk in and out and you go you know like you know
• 46:14
  Track 2: people and you are quick to pick up on things And they don't give credit for that.
• 46:20
  Track 2: And really, in the end, out of all of the people involved in the Gorman Revolution,
• 46:25
  Track 2: or the Gorman Resistance, he is the most sensible one.
• 46:31
  Track 2: Like, hands down.
• 46:33
  Track 1: Yeah, and yeah. We can't talk too much more about him as a character,
• 46:38
  Track 1: which we've probably already—again, you've probably already watched this,
• 46:42
  Track 1: but he does return in a future episode, as he should. He's a cool character.
• 46:49
  Track 1: i think that's pretty much all of the things that i have for this up for like
• 46:54
  Track 1: episode five the only thing i did wrote at the end was would i think we already
• 46:59
  Track 1: talked about this offline was like would cyril have done what he is doing this
• 47:03
  Track 1: entire time if he knew the real reasons for what he was doing it i think you both said no.
• 47:09
  Track 2: I don't think so.
• 47:10
  Track 3: I don't think so.
• 47:12
  Track 2: Like it's hard to talk about it without without really going forward exactly.
• 47:18
  Track 1: Yeah well we'll leave it at that we'll we'll leave our our question and we'll but.
• 47:23
  Track 2: I do i do think that i think deidre and pendergast like i think they know he
• 47:31
  Track 2: wouldn't because otherwise they wouldn't be so like he can't know.
• 47:36
  Track 1: He must never know he.
• 47:37
  Track 2: Can't know i think even they know,
• 47:41
  Track 2: He would not be so on board with this.
• 47:44
  Track 1: I mean, think about how few people were in that room in the very first episode.
• 47:49
  Track 1: Like, 20 people. Like, those are the only people who know.
• 47:53
  Track 1: Although, I suppose the people who are bringing shipments to Gorman don't know
• 47:58
  Track 1: exactly what the reason for it is. But they know they're doing something.
• 48:03
  Track 1: Like, they're bringing weapons and materials.
• 48:05
  Track 2: Do they know that, though?
• 48:07
  Track 1: Oh, do they not know it's in the boxes, is what you're saying?
• 48:10
  Track 2: Cyril even says the leading documents like there's a there's so there's it's
• 48:15
  Track 2: so easy to like you know in any kind of like major bureaucracy you know like
• 48:19
  Track 2: it's easy to like kind of like for like the people that are just doing the work to like not know.
• 48:24
  Track 3: Yeah no there's like there's so many I mean there's so many layers of obfuscation
• 48:30
  Track 3: within the empire where it's just like they could easily make it where it's
• 48:35
  Track 3: like yeah the whatever soldiers that are fucking loading everything into the
• 48:39
  Track 3: fucking newly built armory don't even know what planet they're fucking on.
• 48:43
  Track 2: Yeah.
• 48:43
  Track 3: Only the pilot knows and the pilot's not allowed to talk to any of the fucking
• 48:47
  Track 3: dudes unloading. It could be something like that.
• 48:49
  Track 1: I mean, they don't even need people on the plane besides the pilot.
• 48:52
  Track 1: They could just have people on Gorman just unload nameless, tagless boxes.
• 48:57
  Track 3: Mm-hmm.
• 48:58
  Track 2: Yeah.
• 48:58
  Track 1: I mean, they could have a droid fucking deliver it. They don't even need fucking people. Anyway.
• 49:03
  Track 1: Well, I mean, they're building the Death Star literally with like only the people
• 49:07
  Track 1: doing it knowing somehow. Anyway.
• 49:10
  Track 3: And I mean, and I mean, in rogue one, who is it that fucking gave the info? It was a fucking pilot.
• 49:16
  Track 1: Yeah.
• 49:16
  Track 2: Which goes to like, what I was actually just going to say is like,
• 49:20
  Track 2: I imagine in like, if you, if you could think about how, and this is like,
• 49:25
  Track 2: you know, this is not like, this is not a leftist observation.
• 49:28
  Track 2: Um, but like, if you can imagine how easy it would be, especially like, you know,
• 49:34
  Track 2: at a time in, like on, in the real world, but before we had like mass communication,
• 49:38
  Track 2: like internet and all that shit to like keep stuff like that like under wraps
• 49:43
  Track 2: if you like took someone from like you know like like america to like you know
• 49:46
  Track 2: the pacific ocean and we're doing something on a fucking aircraft carrier or something it's,
• 49:54
  Track 2: I imagine it's pretty fucking easy to keep some kind of, like,
• 49:59
  Track 2: bottleneck on communication when you're in space.
• 50:04
  Track 2: Like, when you're on a— When you're the Empire.
• 50:06
  Track 3: For sure. Like, if you're, like— Like, you're in charge of all this shit.
• 50:09
  Track 2: For sure. Yeah, if you're, like, building a space station, I imagine it's difficult
• 50:12
  Track 2: to get information out of that.
• 50:16
  Track 1: Yeah, I mean, you could jam the communications. You could prevent them from
• 50:19
  Track 1: being able to talk to anyone. I mean, yeah, clearly.
• 50:23
  Track 2: And then not only that, like, then, like, you know, they go home.
• 50:26
  Track 2: Like, let's say they go home, which we have no reason to believe that happens. Like, first off.
• 50:31
  Track 1: Oh, a lot of those people building the Death Star, they are,
• 50:34
  Track 1: it's a one-way trip to build a Death Star.
• 50:37
  Track 2: We have no reason to believe that they're going home anywhere.
• 50:40
  Track 2: But even if they did, like, you know, it's not like you go home to,
• 50:43
  Track 2: like, Ohio and you could talk to your friend in, like, Wyoming.
• 50:47
  Track 2: It's like, well, you go home to, like, I don't know. I don't know a fucking Star Wars planet name.
• 50:51
  Track 2: give me a borkin and then you know like fucking on the other side of the galaxy
• 50:58
  Track 2: you know like what are you gonna like what drop a phone call to somebody on
• 51:02
  Track 2: the other side of the goddamn galaxy well information control is probably a lot easier.
• 51:06
  Track 1: They could go back to tatooine but we know what happens to that.
• 51:09
  Track 2: Oh yeah i forgot about tatooine.
• 51:10
  Track 3: I mean we got examples in andor of like the layers of obfuscation that the fucking
• 51:15
  Track 3: empire has within itself like both like whenever they're talking about enacting
• 51:20
  Track 3: the P the P O R D there's like going no going further no one will have any issue
• 51:26
  Track 3: getting accessing naval or army documents.
• 51:30
  Track 3: that's something that the isb had an issue with before
• 51:33
  Track 3: layers of obfuscation i mean plus they have the competing branch the isa like
• 51:39
  Track 3: because that's fascist competition intercompetition you know you got to have
• 51:44
  Track 3: two different competing intelligence agencies against each other that's where
• 51:47
  Track 3: kind of krennic uh came up from is the isa yeah um well that leads to you.
• 51:53
  Track 1: Know uh you know people working harder to do well they're also like suspecting
• 51:57
  Track 1: each other probably for doing things.
• 51:59
  Track 3: Yeah Yeah, we get Dejra trying to get in trouble for accessing documents in
• 52:05
  Track 3: another ISB agent sector, like in season one.
• 52:09
  Track 3: So like there's so many layers of obfuscation within the Empire.
• 52:12
  Track 2: Yeah, her biggest issue with the Empire, like straight up, is that like she is such a true believer.
• 52:18
  Track 2: She's like, we should all be kumbaya together so we can destroy everyone else.
• 52:23
  Track 2: Like, that seriously seems like her biggest problem is, like,
• 52:28
  Track 2: we aren't working together well enough so that we can oppress people better.
• 52:33
  Track 1: Yes, make it easy for me to arrest people and torture them.
• 52:38
  Track 2: Yeah.
• 52:39
  Track 1: Which, I guess, as you mentioned, like, the P.O.R.D. is, like,
• 52:41
  Track 1: of interest in episode six, where you have Ma and Mothma trying to,
• 52:46
  Track 1: like, rally votes to prevent the Empire from being able to just willy-nilly arresting people.
• 52:53
  Track 1: And I think actually that scene where she's going to the different people and
• 52:56
  Track 1: they're talking and like making their arguments to her about like,
• 52:59
  Track 1: oh, like the crime numbers are just whoever is giving them.
• 53:02
  Track 1: And like, that's actually a very relevant and useful tool that's used now where
• 53:08
  Track 1: like, quote unquote, blue states are like, oh, we have problems with this kind of crime.
• 53:12
  Track 1: And the crime their problem is with is encampments and people that are just
• 53:16
  Track 1: trying to live their lives, you know, on the street.
• 53:18
  Track 3: Yeah, she had that beautiful line. It was like, are we fighting criminals or making them?
• 53:24
  Track 2: Yes.
• 53:25
  Track 1: Such a great line. I wrote that line down, too.
• 53:27
  Track 3: Oh, so good. Oh, I didn't even know you had it down. Where is that?
• 53:30
  Track 3: Oh, is it in the episode six part?
• 53:33
  Track 1: Maybe I didn't. Maybe I just was.
• 53:35
  Track 3: Yeah, no, that was such a beautiful line that she said.
• 53:39
  Track 2: No, you got that. That's right. In episode four, you wrote that right down.
• 53:43
  Track 1: Oh, we missed it then.
• 53:45
  Track 2: Your confusing criminality and politics. Are we finding criminals we're making?
• 53:52
  Track 3: There you go. Yeah.
• 53:54
  Track 2: Which, you know, is a very valid point. But also, like, you know,
• 53:59
  Track 2: there's a lot of talk about.
• 54:01
  Track 3: Very reminiscent on the War on Terror.
• 54:03
  Track 2: Right. But also at the same time, like, there's a lot of talk about how,
• 54:06
  Track 2: like, Ander is like, oh, this is so, like, so relevant to, like, right now.
• 54:10
  Track 2: And it's like, but they wrote this before this. And it's like, there's a reason.
• 54:15
  Track 2: There's a reason it's reminiscent. It's because this shit just keeps repeating
• 54:19
  Track 2: if you don't do anything about it. the more things don't change,
• 54:22
  Track 2: the more they stay the same.
• 54:25
  Track 1: What the line really should be, in my mind, is you think of,
• 54:29
  Track 1: like, what's that tweet from, you know, when, if Israel, like,
• 54:36
  Track 1: killed by family, the first thing I would be is, like, to start Hamas too, right?
• 54:40
  Track 1: Like, they're not making criminals. What they're doing is making people who want to rebel.
• 54:45
  Track 1: They're literally arresting people and making them more angry.
• 54:48
  Track 1: And if they didn't do that, they probably fascists always go too far too quickly
• 54:55
  Track 1: because that's just what they do.
• 54:56
  Track 1: And the more and deeper and harder it gets for everyone, the more likely are
• 55:00
  Track 1: they are probably to realize what's going on and rise up. And so they're just arresting everyone.
• 55:06
  Track 1: Like Andor goes to prison in season one for no reason whatsoever.
• 55:10
  Track 1: Although I'll be it. He should have gone to prison for his major,
• 55:13
  Track 1: you know, heist, but well.
• 55:15
  Track 3: For his other shit.
• 55:17
  Track 1: I'm saying like that's what they could have arrested him for,
• 55:19
  Track 1: but instead they arrest him for nothing.
• 55:21
  Track 3: Yeah, no, I mean, it's, it's perfectly like you said, I mean,
• 55:25
  Track 3: and it's even like historically, but also given to you, the viewer in the show
• 55:30
  Track 3: in season one, when they're talking about like any crime that has any remotely,
• 55:34
  Track 3: any impact on the empire will have like quadruple sentence or whatever the fuck they said.
• 55:40
  Track 3: Like they revealed their hand right then that they're going to go overboard and crazy. And like,
• 55:47
  Track 3: I just love it. It's so just on the nose and poignant. Yeah.
• 55:51
  Track 1: But we didn't know then though was the reason was they needed labor.
• 55:54
  Track 1: Like that's the, that was the main reason for that. I mean, not the only reason,
• 55:59
  Track 1: but they're also just trying to.
• 56:01
  Track 1: And then the thing that we also learn in episode six of this season is like
• 56:07
  Track 1: the, another ISB conversation where they're talking about the,
• 56:10
  Track 1: the fact that they're arresting too many people and they can't torture them all quickly enough.
• 56:15
  Track 2: Which is just.
• 56:17
  Track 3: Hey they said process okay so obviously it's processing not torture it's advanced
• 56:25
  Track 3: interrogation yeah enhanced interrogation techniques yeah that's exactly they.
• 56:32
  Track 1: Blue milk board them that.
• 56:35
  Track 3: They workshopped it they had a test group they had a whole focus group on the
• 56:40
  Track 3: words process is what we're going with.
• 56:44
  Track 2: That entire conversation was
• 56:48
  Track 2: truly wild and it's like
• 56:50
  Track 2: for the most part now correct me
• 56:53
  Track 2: if i'm wrong if i don't like that conversation about
• 56:58
  Track 2: and like deidre's there like that entire company that has no purpose for the
• 57:05
  Track 2: overall story other than to just show the way those systems work it's not about, you know,
• 57:14
  Track 2: it's not about prepping for the Death Star. It's not about Gorman.
• 57:19
  Track 2: It's not about you know, anything else other than to just show viewers this
• 57:25
  Track 2: is how these systems work.
• 57:27
  Track 2: Take in people and put them into forced labor. Like, that's the purpose.
• 57:33
  Track 2: And to, the cruelty is the point.
• 57:35
  Track 2: Like, that's the entire scene, that's the point, is to show the cruelty is the point.
• 57:41
  Track 3: I mean, overall all isn't it isn't
• 57:43
  Track 3: that the whole point of any of the isb scenes i mean i mean in terms of.
• 57:48
  Track 2: The show because like.
• 57:49
  Track 3: Oh yeah no no plot.
• 57:50
  Track 2: Point but this.
• 57:51
  Track 3: Yeah no no i'm fully agreeing but like we could never get any isb scenes and
• 57:56
  Track 3: still understand they're building a death star yeah just you know star wars
• 58:01
  Track 3: knowledge but like no it's so beautiful that we get that.
• 58:05
  Track 1: It's almost like they build the Death Star so they don't need that anymore.
• 58:09
  Track 1: They don't need ISB. They don't... I mean, I guess they...
• 58:12
  Track 3: Oh, no, no, no, no. Absolutely. Because, I mean...
• 58:15
  Track 1: Ultimate deterrence. I use that in quotes.
• 58:18
  Track 3: I assume that the ISB is absolutely getting a... Oh, shit. That's later.
• 58:24
  Track 3: Sorry. Well... It's so hard not to talk.
• 58:27
  Track 1: No, I know what you were going to say. And, yeah.
• 58:31
  Track 1: Well, so the other two things that I thought were great in this last episode,
• 58:35
  Track 1: episode six, is, like, the two different conversations that Luthan has with Andor.
• 58:40
  Track 1: Like, the first is when he comes back from Gorman, he's kind of,
• 58:43
  Track 1: like, filling him in, being like, these people, like, aren't ready,
• 58:46
  Track 1: they're not real rebels,
• 58:48
  Track 1: and Luthan basically tells him, like, you know, we need to use them as this
• 58:52
  Track 1: symbol to bring more people to our cause.
• 58:56
  Track 1: And, you know, it's his line of, like, if it goes up in flames,
• 59:00
  Track 1: it will burn very brightly.
• 59:01
  Track 1: Like, he's willing to sacrifice Gorman, but not in the way that it plays out
• 59:08
  Track 1: that's all i can say about that he's willing he's okay if some of them die in
• 59:14
  Track 1: this fight because that's part of it.
• 59:16
  Track 3: I mean when we're in in a universe where we're talking like a population on
• 59:23
  Track 3: the scale that the star wars universe has,
• 59:27
  Track 3: kind of a drop in the bucket you can kind of understand where luthan's coming
• 59:31
  Track 3: from there but like a real world perspective here on earth i mean i guess that
• 59:36
  Track 3: would be like a what like a squad battalion of people maybe as like a decent
• 59:41
  Track 3: comparison i don't but even then it's hard i.
• 59:44
  Track 2: Don't see i don't buy that and because in reality nobody i
• 59:48
  Track 2: feel like that line on lutheran's part is the
• 59:51
  Track 2: single greatest indicator as to why he is not part of the larger scale and like
• 1:00:01
  Track 2: the long-term successful rebellion and resistance is his, his,
• 1:00:10
  Track 2: ideology is not rooted in
• 1:00:14
  Track 2: like it is um you know means to
• 1:00:16
  Track 2: the end like yes luthan is an admirable character
• 1:00:20
  Track 2: in a lot of ways but there are deep flaws to his character and that notion of
• 1:00:26
  Track 2: like you don't that is not that is not the actions of a person looking to liberate
• 1:00:33
  Track 2: that is the person That is the action of somebody looking to create like revolution,
• 1:00:39
  Track 2: but not a longstanding revolution or one that will be successful long term because
• 1:00:44
  Track 2: you're going to have reaction or you're going to have boomerang off that.
• 1:00:47
  Track 3: It is the actions of somebody who doesn't intend to see revolution like come
• 1:00:53
  Track 3: about, like I was saying.
• 1:00:55
  Track 2: But I don't like I called. I don't think it's even it's not even that he doesn't
• 1:00:59
  Track 2: expect to see it himself.
• 1:01:00
  Track 2: that action or I mean unless what you are alluding to is that he doesn't expect
• 1:01:07
  Track 2: to see it himself and be responsible for the further process because like that
• 1:01:13
  Track 2: is guaranteed and he doesn't.
• 1:01:15
  Track 3: Expect to be remembered either like in his fucking incredible monologue.
• 1:01:19
  Track 2: To push that mentality not only you're not expecting to be remembered you're
• 1:01:24
  Track 2: not expecting to be successful dude.
• 1:01:26
  Track 3: He's like I said he's the refined Saw.
• 1:01:29
  Track 2: Gerrera yeah Yeah, no, you're 100% correct. And like, and looking at it that
• 1:01:33
  Track 2: way. And that is the line that gives it away for me.
• 1:01:37
  Track 3: Yeah, it just nails the hammer. And like, I was having that feelings before,
• 1:01:41
  Track 3: like in the first like few episodes, before we even get to these ones of viewing.
• 1:01:45
  Track 3: I was like, oh man, Luton's, Luton's, the saw route, but just better at it.
• 1:01:51
  Track 3: You know what I mean? More purpose, more thought.
• 1:01:54
  Track 3: But at the same time.
• 1:01:56
  Track 1: Let me throw this argument out there.
• 1:01:58
  Track 3: Wants to see the fire burn.
• 1:02:00
  Track 1: The reason why he's more refined and he's able to do things better than Saw
• 1:02:03
  Track 1: Gerrera is one thing. And it's Clea.
• 1:02:06
  Track 3: Exactly.
• 1:02:07
  Track 2: Yeah.
• 1:02:08
  Track 1: If not for Clea. And I called that. Luthor would be the same as Saw Gerrera.
• 1:02:12
  Track 3: I also called that.
• 1:02:13
  Track 2: By the way. That she was in charge, not him.
• 1:02:16
  Track 3: That she was in charge. Yeah, I called that.
• 1:02:18
  Track 2: And that is made very clear in these episodes when she's like,
• 1:02:23
  Track 2: this is what we're fucking doing.
• 1:02:25
  Track 2: This needs to come out and we're doing it and you're going to be there.
• 1:02:28
  Track 3: Yeah, get your fucking shit together. You agreed to this. What the fuck are you freaking out about?
• 1:02:34
  Track 1: Get your ass up and work.
• 1:02:36
  Track 3: Do you see me freaking out? I am freaking out, but do you see me freaking out?
• 1:02:39
  Track 2: Yeah, she lays the fucking, she lays it down. She draws the line.
• 1:02:44
  Track 3: Oh, she's so incredible.
• 1:02:45
  Track 1: I also love that party scene where, which is happening simultaneously as the
• 1:02:50
  Track 1: heist on Gorman with like also Krennic being there and like this political conversation
• 1:02:56
  Track 1: he's having with like Von Mothma over, you know,
• 1:03:01
  Track 1: terrorist or freedom fighter kind of shit, which is the kind of shit that like
• 1:03:06
  Track 1: you would, that Krennic would do.
• 1:03:08
  Track 1: I don't know. I just, it's like an interesting perspective.
• 1:03:11
  Track 2: He's an incredible actor.
• 1:03:12
  Track 1: It's like, what's that?
• 1:03:13
  Track 2: He's an incredible actor.
• 1:03:15
  Track 1: Oh, he's a credible actor.
• 1:03:16
  Track 3: But I will say, I love that scene where Krennic is at the party because it's
• 1:03:22
  Track 3: like the first glimpse you really get of Krennic not dealing with people higher ranking than him.
• 1:03:32
  Track 3: And so we saw the meeting before, but that was super professional of him because
• 1:03:37
  Track 3: it's a very important meeting.
• 1:03:39
  Track 3: You know, oncey conference type shit.
• 1:03:42
  Track 3: But this is a party and we get to see how absolutely fucking irritating and
• 1:03:48
  Track 3: fucking annoying and miserable Krennic is to fucking be around.
• 1:03:53
  Track 2: He's like a cat playing with his shit.
• 1:03:55
  Track 3: Which is great. It helps explain why like Moff Tarkin and Vader don't fucking
• 1:04:01
  Track 3: put up with a fucking second of his bullshit.
• 1:04:05
  Track 3: Like it really helps build that like develop the character and make it feel more.
• 1:04:10
  Track 2: I love that aspect.
• 1:04:11
  Track 3: Oh absolutely insufferable absolutely.
• 1:04:15
  Track 1: Insufferable just like the way he speaks to like he has this like the ultimate
• 1:04:20
  Track 1: arrogance that you would have with you know at his level of,
• 1:04:27
  Track 1: empire rank you know so it's just
• 1:04:30
  Track 1: I love that scene and then when he
• 1:04:33
  Track 1: finally gets to you know the very last device
• 1:04:36
  Track 1: where Clay had been like removing like she's
• 1:04:39
  Track 1: her hands like dripping with blood trying to get it out and
• 1:04:42
  Track 1: then you know poor Lonnie has to then like jump in
• 1:04:45
  Track 1: and explain this piece and the whole time as I watched the scene the first time
• 1:04:48
  Track 1: I'm thinking is he gonna fuck this up and not be able to remember what he's
• 1:04:52
  Track 1: saying but then I remember that Lonnie's actually like a very very smart person
• 1:04:56
  Track 1: I mean to work not just for the ISP for that long but to also do it as a double
• 1:05:01
  Track 1: agent you have to be a very capable person.
• 1:05:03
  Track 3: You got to understand why he was so nervous in that scene is like i feel like
• 1:05:09
  Track 3: the i personally feel like the undertone of the whole scene was that like if
• 1:05:14
  Track 3: lonnie didn't do what clea was saying she was going to make it seem like lonnie
• 1:05:19
  Track 3: was having an affair on his wife with her.
• 1:05:21
  Track 1: Oh it just that's.
• 1:05:23
  Track 3: Part yeah and that on top of their other rebellion connections like just so
• 1:05:29
  Track 3: many layers of implications like lonnie's scared shitless.
• 1:05:33
  Track 3: Krennic is fucking there. His bosses are fucking there.
• 1:05:36
  Track 3: And now he's got Clea and Luthan in the same fucking room as him with Mon Mothma and...
• 1:05:43
  Track 3: It's just fucking late. I mean, granted he doesn't know about Mahan probably,
• 1:05:46
  Track 3: but like with the implications with Clea and Luthan standing right next to him
• 1:05:51
  Track 3: for a while, like he's fucking shaken to the core.
• 1:05:54
  Track 1: I don't think that, uh, that, um, Lonnie knows about anyone except for Clay and Luthan.
• 1:06:00
  Track 1: I don't like they, they give him as their, the information is going one direction.
• 1:06:05
  Track 3: Well, he's got his bosses there too.
• 1:06:06
  Track 1: Yeah.
• 1:06:06
  Track 3: That's so like, he's got, he's literally got his bosses and fucking Krennic
• 1:06:10
  Track 3: of all fucking people staring at him while he's dealing with his underworld
• 1:06:16
  Track 3: rebellion and he's drunk,
• 1:06:19
  Track 3: yeah he's been drinking I love that little fucking,
• 1:06:24
  Track 3: imperial officer one of the officers with Krennic who obviously doesn't get
• 1:06:29
  Track 3: out much he's like oh we're drinking these cocktails they're so good that.
• 1:06:34
  Track 2: Was a great.
• 1:06:36
  Track 3: It was just such a good add in it just built.
• 1:06:41
  Track 1: You're like what are you guys doing here like what the fuck why aren't you in that little.
• 1:06:45
  Track 3: ISP conference room who.
• 1:06:47
  Track 1: Said you could go out like you get the sense too that those guys work like 80 hour weeks.
• 1:06:54
  Track 3: Oh they would definitely work a lot like we can see they definitely get some
• 1:06:57
  Track 3: home time I mean Lonnie's able to go meet Luthan he's got a wife and kid Dedra
• 1:07:02
  Track 3: fucking has a fucking relationship for fuck's sake,
• 1:07:05
  Track 3: but like they definitely work a lot for sure i mean emergency meetings and shit this.
• 1:07:12
  Track 1: Is a completely unrelated thought but i noted that when when um when cyril goes
• 1:07:19
  Track 1: back to deidre's apartment for like that one hour where she's like turn out the lights the.
• 1:07:25
  Track 3: One hour well.
• 1:07:28
  Track 1: Isn't that how long he has when he's there is it an hour.
• 1:07:30
  Track 3: Yeah but like that was like his response saying one hour yeah well no but i was like her apartment.
• 1:07:36
  Track 1: Seems like I don't think I got that much in me empty like his apartment seems
• 1:07:40
  Track 1: her apartment just seems like enormous but all the rooms seem empty and I'm
• 1:07:44
  Track 1: just like and it's just struck.
• 1:07:46
  Track 3: Me as like the emptiness.
• 1:07:47
  Track 1: Of the empire they don't they have stuff but they also have nothing.
• 1:07:52
  Track 3: But also remember she is imperial to her core she was raised in the imperial
• 1:07:58
  Track 3: kinder blocks fully believes this shit to the day she dies even in,
• 1:08:04
  Track 3: but like so of course like she doesn't have any attachments to anything aesthetic
• 1:08:10
  Track 3: or anything like nifty like everything is purposeful like if it doesn't have
• 1:08:16
  Track 3: a purpose why the fuck would i have it.
• 1:08:18
  Track 2: I think cyril permanent gorman is way nicer.
• 1:08:20
  Track 3: Oh his apart his soul his bachelor pad is solid compared to detritus even with his.
• 1:08:28
  Track 2: Like six gorelectopath statues.
• 1:08:30
  Track 3: Okay all right i got a question what is the fucking economy of like the dude
• 1:08:36
  Track 3: selling galactopods in the town square plaza like i saw tourists it's like gotta
• 1:08:42
  Track 3: be just tourists right who.
• 1:08:44
  Track 2: Else is buying.
• 1:08:45
  Track 3: Galactopods but like even then like they can't be killing galactopods because
• 1:08:49
  Track 3: no they're making threads so like they gotta be statues.
• 1:08:52
  Track 2: They're not real.
• 1:08:53
  Track 1: Or see i actually thought they might be like real ones but they're old ones
• 1:08:58
  Track 1: that had died and like were like petrified or i don't know i thought they.
• 1:09:03
  Track 3: I figured that they're like dead Gorlechtopods because they look like they're
• 1:09:08
  Track 3: like strung like the bodies are held together with string.
• 1:09:11
  Track 2: See, I took that as they were like wire frames and they were like wrapped.
• 1:09:15
  Track 1: The only time you actually see one of them is there's like a shot after Andor
• 1:09:20
  Track 1: is there in the little shop and they show the little glass jar with it spinning
• 1:09:25
  Track 1: its webs, which I also thought was like a good.
• 1:09:29
  Track 1: I also just appreciate on a, like, maybe this wasn't intentional,
• 1:09:34
  Track 1: that the economy of this planet is, like, spinning silk.
• 1:09:38
  Track 1: And I think of, like, the idea of, like, spinning propaganda or spinning lies
• 1:09:42
  Track 1: and for spies, all these things. Like, it's a good.
• 1:09:46
  Track 3: I saw it. I saw it as a metaphor of how the Gormans were trapped.
• 1:09:52
  Track 3: Because they had the Gorlechtopod in a glass cage on display.
• 1:09:56
  Track 1: That's fair. Yeah, I could see that.
• 1:09:58
  Track 3: And no attention was paid to it, just like the Gormans were.
• 1:10:03
  Track 1: Yeah, they're just there for the silk, and that's it. The Empire doesn't care
• 1:10:07
  Track 1: about them as long as they get their silk.
• 1:10:09
  Track 2: I mean, it can also mean absolutely nothing.
• 1:10:12
  Track 3: It could be. Who knows?
• 1:10:13
  Track 2: I do like that read, really. I like that read a lot.
• 1:10:17
  Track 1: Tony Gilroy, still, you're welcome to come on and tell us what we got wrong.
• 1:10:22
  Track 2: Let us know.
• 1:10:23
  Track 3: We're going to give you some really good questions and some really good discussion.
• 1:10:26
  Track 3: Like, I know you've had some really great interviews, but you should definitely hop on with us.
• 1:10:30
  Track 1: I mean, your show, like the show isn't doing that well. So like if you come
• 1:10:33
  Track 1: on this show, you might get a little more screams.
• 1:10:35
  Track 3: Yeah, you could definitely get a boost in viewership if you hop on our much
• 1:10:40
  Track 3: larger, prominent, well-known podcast, you know, and or some little Disney Plus
• 1:10:48
  Track 3: series. All right, come on.
• 1:10:50
  Track 2: Our prominent Marxist-Leninist anti-capitalist podcast.
• 1:10:56
  Track 3: Yeah, this unadvertised Marxist podcast that I'm not even an actual host on. I'm just a guest.
• 1:11:07
  Track 2: We have no authority. As I frequently say, I have no authority here.
• 1:11:17
  Track 1: Is there is there anything from that last one that i missed the only thing i
• 1:11:21
  Track 1: was was thinking of i mean we do see the the i think i already mentioned is like the heist,
• 1:11:26
  Track 1: and the uh the one the one line i did write down when they're like describing
• 1:11:31
  Track 1: like to the gormans how to do it and she wrote she says you know prep is useless
• 1:11:35
  Track 1: if you can't follow orders and of course as you're watching you're the first
• 1:11:39
  Track 1: time i'm thinking something is going to go wrong obviously like oh.
• 1:11:44
  Track 3: For sure i would say like for me with
• 1:11:47
  Track 3: the gorman heist that is all of the
• 1:11:50
  Track 3: lessons of hierarchy and leadership and the importance
• 1:11:53
  Track 3: therein that the maya pay brigade was absolutely falling flat on teaching and
• 1:11:59
  Track 3: i doubled down on the fact that yeah the maya pay brigade arc sucked i like
• 1:12:04
  Track 3: the monsters on yavin 4 big fan um like prototype of uh thai adventure,
• 1:12:12
  Track 3: if that's what it's called this was a like that too perfect.
• 1:12:15
  Track 2: Opportunity a perfect opportunity for cast to be like hey remember those guys
• 1:12:21
  Track 2: who sucked because then these people are the same,
• 1:12:26
  Track 2: perfect opportunity to tie that up into a bundle no listen Mr.
• 1:12:31
  Track 2: Gilroy I'm not I'm not trying to be rude since you're listening I'm not trying
• 1:12:37
  Track 2: to I'm just saying you know that was a missed opportunity and I you know,
• 1:12:41
  Track 2: I know you're better than that.
• 1:12:43
  Track 3: No, like we got the death of like the consequences of not following leadership
• 1:12:51
  Track 3: and understanding hierarchy were actual consequences for the viewer.
• 1:12:55
  Track 3: We lost a character we have attachment to.
• 1:12:58
  Track 3: We know and understand versus what the two random dudes in charge of the Maya
• 1:13:03
  Track 3: pay brigade that got eaten.
• 1:13:05
  Track 3: Like who gives a fuck about them?
• 1:13:07
  Track 3: Now, like Cinta is important. Like we know Cinta. And then Vel grills that fucking time.
• 1:13:15
  Track 1: Oh, that scene is great. Don't you fucking cry.
• 1:13:18
  Track 3: And reinforces the lessons.
• 1:13:21
  Track 3: Just reinforces it. And it's so much better done than whatever the fucking Maya
• 1:13:27
  Track 3: Pay Brigade shit was attempting.
• 1:13:28
  Track 2: I don't need to remind you because you will never forget.
• 1:13:32
  Track 1: Yeah, that's.
• 1:13:33
  Track 2: Now, I read an interesting take online. And, you know, the internet is a dangerous
• 1:13:41
  Track 2: place filled with CIA agents and bots and lies.
• 1:13:44
  Track 2: Um, but I did think this was interesting, um, that, that the guy whose name
• 1:13:49
  Track 2: I do not remember that predicated that the death of Sinta, the big guy,
• 1:13:55
  Track 2: the rowdy guy, that he was actually like a plant and like constantly,
• 1:14:05
  Track 2: like he was a person, like basically working for the ISB.
• 1:14:08
  Track 2: pushing things to get more violent so that it would erupt.
• 1:14:14
  Track 1: The guy who's arguing with the kid when they're before the heist?
• 1:14:20
  Track 2: Yeah.
• 1:14:22
  Track 1: I can see it. Because he comes back later.
• 1:14:26
  Track 2: Yes.
• 1:14:27
  Track 3: We'll have to revisit that one.
• 1:14:29
  Track 1: I could see that because he shows up at the perfect moment.
• 1:14:34
  Track 1: Granted, what he was doing, even if he didn't pull out his blaster and shoot
• 1:14:41
  Track 1: him, they still would have completed their mission, their goal, right? So, I don't know.
• 1:14:47
  Track 2: Interesting. It's possible. Interesting take.
• 1:14:50
  Track 3: I mean, we don't get the five seasons, so we don't really know, do we?
• 1:14:57
  Track 2: No.
• 1:14:57
  Track 3: I mean, speak it. Oh, I was going to tangent real quick off of this. So, if you want to go.
• 1:15:03
  Track 2: I was gonna go back to me also so this is off this go for it.
• 1:15:06
  Track 3: Oh i was gonna change it completely off of something onto something we haven't talked about so you go.
• 1:15:11
  Track 2: I was i was gonna you know refer back to like the whole like krennic
• 1:15:14
  Track 2: thing and like that in the party and like how like evan pointed out you know
• 1:15:18
  Track 2: like the lies told that the just people are the global south are the same they're
• 1:15:21
  Track 2: barbaric which then justifies mass murdering imperialism and in this it's like
• 1:15:25
  Track 2: we should it's shown very clearly that the because these lies as mon moth is
• 1:15:31
  Track 2: talking like it's very true.
• 1:15:33
  Track 2: Like the Gorman aren't doing anything of note. They've done fucking nothing.
• 1:15:37
  Track 2: And yet the Empire is out here like, you know, spreading information like there's
• 1:15:43
  Track 2: some kind of like, you know,
• 1:15:45
  Track 2: nefarious group you know, plotting the destruction and they're like randomly
• 1:15:50
  Track 2: like, you know, doing shit. It's like they've done nothing.
• 1:15:53
  Track 2: They've achieved nothing at all.
• 1:15:56
  Track 2: They've literally had a meeting in which they all yelled at each other.
• 1:16:02
  Track 2: That's it. And yet they're pushing, the empire is pushing an entire narrative
• 1:16:07
  Track 2: about them being dangerous subversives.
• 1:16:10
  Track 2: And it is such a perfect example of how easy it is for a state in control of
• 1:16:17
  Track 2: media to feed people information.
• 1:16:20
  Track 2: It just lies. And they just take it.
• 1:16:24
  Track 2: and go with it.
• 1:16:25
  Track 1: What were you.
• 1:16:26
  Track 3: Gonna say no i was just gonna say like you
• 1:16:29
  Track 3: know because we didn't get the five seasons we won't really know if he was an
• 1:16:33
  Track 3: isb like co-intel plant but also in the same vein we i feel like we got robbed
• 1:16:42
  Track 3: of the gilman fucking joining saw guerrero's band arc as well.
• 1:16:47
  Track 3: Not getting five seasons, you know? You get, like, a whole, like,
• 1:16:51
  Track 3: initiation scene with Gilman and fucking Saw Gerrera inhaling the ride-o,
• 1:16:57
  Track 3: and you get that fucking Saw Gerrera speech.
• 1:17:00
  Track 3: And, like, honestly, shit gets me fucking hyped. Not gonna lie.
• 1:17:04
  Track 3: Like, not even a big Saw fan, but, like, that speech and it's like,
• 1:17:09
  Track 3: you're not, where are you?
• 1:17:10
  Track 3: You're here, and you want to fight! Like, dude.
• 1:17:14
  Track 3: Yeah. Gets me fucking going, man. it's like i feel like that was like a whole
• 1:17:18
  Track 3: start of like a whole arc for him like that we just didn't get because we didn't
• 1:17:23
  Track 3: get five seasons yeah that didn't feel.
• 1:17:25
  Track 2: Like it felt like the beginning of something that wasn't you know moved on with
• 1:17:29
  Track 2: it felt very uh kind of like offhand.
• 1:17:33
  Track 3: But god was he good yeah the sauce crew looking all badass up on that ridge
• 1:17:38
  Track 3: so badass so fucking sick dude that.
• 1:17:42
  Track 2: One alien species with the thing with the thing and they.
• 1:17:46
  Track 3: Always have the mascot.
• 1:17:47
  Track 2: No the other.
• 1:17:48
  Track 3: Oh the oh the tubes they're so badass they're so badass I love how Luthing called
• 1:17:52
  Track 3: them tubes in season one tubes tubes is my man he tells me everything,
• 1:18:01
  Track 3: oh
• 1:18:04
  Track 1: See i i bet luther would be a fun guy to just like go out drinking with oh.
• 1:18:08
  Track 3: For sure like especially like if you're in his group you know what i mean and
• 1:18:13
  Track 3: he could be himself oh absolutely like i'm sure he's probably a blast when he's
• 1:18:17
  Track 3: undercover too like if you're in the hoity-toity type oh yeah you can tell that.
• 1:18:22
  Track 2: Party he's like i was hoping you guys would make an offer on it you know like oh would you.
• 1:18:26
  Track 3: Wear that right i.
• 1:18:28
  Track 2: Was hoping you steve's taking an offer on it.
• 1:18:31
  Track 1: See yeah.
• 1:18:32
  Track 3: Like oh i've been working on keeping secrets like god he's so.
• 1:18:36
  Track 1: Charming i think he became that character so like he had to live it for so long
• 1:18:42
  Track 1: that it's almost sometimes like he,
• 1:18:45
  Track 1: doesn't know how to be like his actual self which is why i think maybe he comes
• 1:18:50
  Track 1: off as so gruff and why clea has to kind of be the leader because he's forced
• 1:18:55
  Track 1: late clay is like in the show like she's in she comes out to show pieces but
• 1:18:59
  Track 1: she's not at the same level of undercover that Luthan is.
• 1:19:03
  Track 2: Yeah, no. Well, she definitely, it is clear based on her conversations with
• 1:19:10
  Track 2: other people, it is clear that she is very well known to that community.
• 1:19:18
  Track 2: And she is definitely someone that, those people talk to her a lot.
• 1:19:23
  Track 2: She is plugged in. She may not be which.
• 1:19:26
  Track 3: We can talk about later.
• 1:19:27
  Track 2: She may not be she may not be the like the face person but she is definitely someone people know.
• 1:19:36
  Track 1: Yes and.
• 1:19:37
  Track 2: Deal with regularly.
• 1:19:38
  Track 1: I mean even in her like nice like when she puts on the nice face to be like
• 1:19:43
  Track 1: a you know a store assistant or whatever she is like she's still like in control
• 1:19:49
  Track 1: like the way that she just like works lani is also just that's her undercover
• 1:19:54
  Track 1: her, you know, her real self, but,
• 1:19:57
  Track 1: No one doesn't. Everyone listens to what she says at all times at every moment.
• 1:20:03
  Track 2: Yeah.
• 1:20:03
  Track 3: Dude, even the customers in the store, like she gets a call and she's like, give me a moment.
• 1:20:09
  Track 3: And it's like, she's just stern enough that it's like she's taking her moment,
• 1:20:14
  Track 3: but also polite, you know, customer service voice.
• 1:20:18
  Track 2: She's an incredible actor.
• 1:20:20
  Track 1: I can't believe it was her first show.
• 1:20:21
  Track 3: And this was like her, yeah, her first major acting role.
• 1:20:24
  Track 1: First of many, I believe.
• 1:20:27
  Track 3: Oh, I hope so.
• 1:20:28
  Track 1: I do hope that she doesn't do other Star Wars shit and she just does other stuff instead.
• 1:20:33
  Track 3: Oh, that'd be so sick.
• 1:20:34
  Track 1: Yeah. We don't need her coming back. No, I mean, I guess she really couldn't
• 1:20:37
  Track 1: be in much other Star Wars because she would be in Rogue One if she was in the
• 1:20:41
  Track 1: show, which she's obviously not. And then she's not in Episode 4, obviously.
• 1:20:45
  Track 1: So anyway, I think we pretty much covered these Episodes 4 through 6.
• 1:20:52
  Track 1: So anyone listening who hasn't rewatched the second half of season two,
• 1:20:59
  Track 1: or if you're already not on your 10th watch, which I mean, I don't know why you wouldn't be,
• 1:21:03
  Track 1: you can do that between the listening of this episode and when we release episode
• 1:21:09
  Track 1: three of season two, which will cover seven,
• 1:21:12
  Track 1: eight, and nine, which are arguably the best three episode groupings of the series.
• 1:21:21
  Track 1: I'll go out on a limb and say I think my memory I mean the last three are also very good but.
• 1:21:27
  Track 2: Yeah I think it's hard to really.
• 1:21:30
  Track 3: They're also great.
• 1:21:32
  Track 2: It's also like the way they're released it's like they all the three groupings
• 1:21:37
  Track 2: it's like they feel it feels like it's all like one episode you.
• 1:21:41
  Track 1: Know yeah like a movie four movies I think that about wraps it up with Bill
• 1:21:46
  Track 1: and Ward your friendly and or team Yeah.
• 1:21:52
  Track 2: That's right. We're a team.
• 1:21:54
  Track 3: I'd say we're experts at this point. Tony Gilroy should really come on and have a discussion with us.
• 1:22:00
  Track 2: Yeah, I think really, Tony. I mean, I listened to your interview where you talked
• 1:22:04
  Track 2: about how you base things on revolutions. We know a thing about revolutions.
• 1:22:08
  Track 1: People forgot that after season one aired, he specifically mentions that,
• 1:22:13
  Track 1: as we talked about in our season one, he knows who Joseph Stalin is. He knows who Lenin is.
• 1:22:20
  Track 2: He studied revolutions. He has explicitly said that Andor was the product of
• 1:22:27
  Track 2: his study of revolutions and what went wrong and what went right in them.
• 1:22:32
  Track 1: So if you're Gilroy's agent or you're like his assistant, because maybe he just
• 1:22:36
  Track 1: hasn't been tied into this show yet, you can contact him.
• 1:22:40
  Track 3: Or his son, if you're his son listening, you know, put us in.
• 1:22:43
  Track 2: Or his daughter. I don't know if he has kids.
• 1:22:45
  Track 1: Just send me an email.
• 1:22:47
  Track 3: He has a son.
• 1:22:47
  Track 1: Just send me an email, leftwitheprojector at gmail.com. You know what to do.
• 1:22:50
  Track 1: And we'll make time for you, Tony.
• 1:22:53
  Track 2: Yeah.
• 1:22:53
  Track 1: I'll always make time for you.
• 1:22:55
  Track 2: You can send me an email too. It's leftwithprojector at gmail.com.
• 1:23:01
  Track 3: And also me at leftwithprojector at gmail.com.
• 1:23:05
  Track 1: So you have that authority apparently, I see, Bill. You have email authority of leftwithprojector.
• 1:23:12
  Track 1: But we will catch you next time, Tony Gilroy, on leftwithprojector.