Latest / She Speaks Life - Christian Women, Strengthen Your Faith, Bible Study, Grow Spiritually In Christ / Supporting a Loved One in Addiction Recovery With Caroline Beidler

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Supporting a Loved One in Addiction Recovery With Caroline Beidler · She Speaks Life - Christian Women, Strengthen Your Faith, Bible Study, Grow Spiritually In Christ

• 0:02
  Hi and welcome back to you She Speaks Live podcast.
• 0:05
  Do you have a loved one that is going through the recovery of an
• 0:09
  addiction or maybe you are in recovery yourself?
• 0:13
  Well, this conversation that I have with Caroline Byler is so
• 0:17
  good. You guys.
• 0:19
  She wrote a book called When You Love Someone in Recovery and it
• 0:24
  is absolutely amazing because it takes you through how to walk
• 0:28
  alongside one in recovery of an addiction with these 4 pillars
• 0:33
  that she shares in this episode and more in her book.
• 0:37
  She has a well known podcast called The Circle of Chairs and
• 0:41
  is the founder of the Women's Recovery Leadership Foundation
• 0:45
  which helps others heal on the recovery path.
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  We talk about the negative effects of the term tough love
• 0:53
  and how to shift from conflict to collaborate and from
• 0:56
  combative to supportive in our conversations with one who is
• 1:02
  going through recovery. And along with that, we touch on
• 1:06
  the science of how our brain recovers and the awe and wonder
• 1:12
  of how good God designed our minds.
• 1:16
  This is such a powerful discussion on ways to support
• 1:20
  and nurture a loved one on the journey of recovery while doing
• 1:25
  it. That's healthy and biblical for
• 1:27
  everyone. OK, so if you're ready, I'm
• 1:30
  ready. Here's my guest, Caroline
• 1:32
  Beidler. Hi, Caroline.
• 1:34
  Welcome to She Speaks Life. I'm so excited you're here to
• 1:37
  share with us today. Thank you for having me.
• 1:39
  I'm really delighted to be here. I.
• 1:41
  Love your message that you will be sharing today.
• 1:45
  It's one that's not so common, but you wrote a book called When
• 1:50
  You Love Someone in Recovery. And I love how you reach out to
• 1:55
  those families and the communities, the the loved ones
• 2:00
  that are walking through this journey with one that is
• 2:03
  recovering from addiction and really just showing them.
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  This is a guidebook on showing how to just bring healing and
• 2:13
  restoration and just trusting God through this whole process.
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  And you have a podcast called Circle of Chairs.
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  Love that. And you are the founder of the
• 2:25
  Women's Recovery Leadership Foundation, which helps others
• 2:30
  find healing on their recovery journey.
• 2:33
  So welcome, and I'm so happy to dive into this message.
• 2:39
  And before we do, I always ask every guest when they come on
• 2:43
  the show, what is your favorite Scripture verse or just one
• 2:46
  that's resonating with you right now?
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  And why? And you know, it's a tough
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  question for me because there's so many verses I feel like that
• 2:53
  I've spoken life to me and continue to it like different
• 2:56
  seasons, you know, and then they'll be ones with the Lord
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  kind of brings back and just really kind of like gets in my
• 3:02
  heart again. But I think as it relates to
• 3:04
  this conversation, Psalm 121, I lift my eyes up to the hills.
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  Where does my help come from? My help comes from the Lord, the
• 3:12
  maker of heaven and earth, the beginning of that Psalm.
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  And you know, in that Psalm goes on to talk about how God will
• 3:21
  not let us slip, God will not let us falter.
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  And I think that Psalm has been an anchor for me in my own
• 3:27
  addiction recovery journey. And recovery has led me to look
• 3:31
  up towards the hills, towards the Lord in such amazing,
• 3:37
  beautiful, magnificent ways that never would have happened had I
• 3:40
  not struggled through addiction. So I'm just so grateful for
• 3:44
  that. And I'm just so grateful to our
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  Lord, our God who anchors us in that truth that he will not let
• 3:51
  us slip, though we do, though we slip, He will not let us.
• 3:55
  And that kind of beautiful contradiction that no matter
• 3:58
  what we go through, he's there. And to me, that is just so
• 4:01
  comforting and and beautiful. Amen.
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  Ah, his promises, they're always true.
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  We always stand on those and they're always faithful and the
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  only one we can rely on. So I I love that.
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  So you wrote a book about how the family as a whole can learn
• 4:19
  ways to support the one in recovery.
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  And we see so much of this recovery process dealing with
• 4:27
  the individual. So that's why I just absolutely
• 4:29
  love how unique your book is because it helps those that are
• 4:34
  around the one that is walking through the recovery process.
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  So what brought you to this point of writing this book?
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  Maybe share a little bit of your back story as to why this is so
• 4:47
  significant in your life. Yeah, yeah, well, a couple
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  reasons. You know, First off, there are a
• 4:52
  lot of books out there and resources for those of us in
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  addiction recovery. There's a lot of what we we like
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  to call quitlet, you know, like books about people's struggle
• 5:03
  and how they overcame in and, and those personal recovery
• 5:06
  stories, which are beautiful, amazing, and I love those books.
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  But I was finding, especially as Christians, there aren't
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  resources for families. And more than that, how are
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  families really supposed to understand not just what
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  addiction is, but what recovery is?
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  You know, I mean it. Today there are 1,000,000 of
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  Americans and and even more millions of people around the
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  world who are impacted by addiction.
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  And so it just really struck me and the Lord really brought me
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  to start looking at ways that we can talk about recovery with
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  others And the other thing, and I'd love to share this story.
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  And it was such a beautiful question that was asked.
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  I was actually leaving to go to a recovery meeting on a
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  Wednesday night. And my kids, who were like 3 or
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  4 at the time, I have twins and my son looked up to me and, and
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  we had talked about recovery. We're very open about it in our
• 6:01
  home. But he got to the point where he
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  asked me as I was leaving for this meeting, Mommy, what's
• 6:08
  recovery? And it was like one of those.
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  And to hear from his sweet mouth, you know, it was just, it
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  made me tear up, I'm sure, but it made me stop and think about
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  how are we talking about this, not just with our kids, but with
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  our loved ones. And my husband and I, you know,
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  went on this journey together too, because he met me and I was
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  in act in, I was going to say active recovery.
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  I, I was already in recovery. So he had to learn what recovery
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  was all about too. And so it's just been this kind
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  of learning. I've done a lot of research, lot
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  of interviews for this book and really just kind of saturating
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  myself in not just the current research and personal
• 6:48
  experience, but what the Lord, you know, says about how we can
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  support those of us struggling, you know, with addiction and
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  then in recovery. And you know, my own story.
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  It would it would take a long time.
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  We don't want to get into the nitty gritty, Jamie.
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  It'd take a long time to go all the way back.
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  But you know, I just, I grew up as a kid who struggled a lot,
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  who had a lot of issues from a broken home, not a Christian
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  home either. And so through that and a lot of
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  trauma I experienced, I developed an addiction really
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  early on and then over time started learning more about
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  recovery and have been in recovery since I was 28.
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  I'm in my 40s now. Don't do the math.
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  But it's been a while that I've been on this journey and I'm so
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  grateful for that. And I'm just passionate about
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  sharing that with others however I can.
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  And I love to call myself a recovery advocate because I love
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  to advocate for the services we need, the supports we need, and
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  the information that we all need, including family members
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  and loved ones. I love it.
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  Yeah. I mean, you're doing it, girl.
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  I mean, you are plugged in and helping and encouraging so many
• 8:00
  people, so proud of you. So I enjoyed your theme in the
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  book of redefining recovery as something going beyond sobriety.
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  And I think that's what's really attractive about this book and
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  what you do and how you just empower those around you.
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  So could you share, share more on this and how you describe
• 8:22
  this as a adding new strengths? I like that rather than removing
• 8:28
  substance. Yeah, absolutely.
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  Well, I think we've come a long way, you know, kind of
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  collectively as a society about how we're understanding and
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  really promoting almost this sober lifestyle.
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  I think current research shows rates of, of alcohol use across
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  demographics, including women are down like at historic lows.
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  You know, we all, we are all loving our ma kind of mocktails
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  and we are understanding not just, you know, the mental
• 8:57
  health, but the physical health benefits of living substance
• 9:00
  free, which is awesome. It's amazing.
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  And I think movements like you may have heard of dry January or
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  sober October or you know, sober curious, looking at our Gray
• 9:12
  area drinking, there's been all of these movements think maybe
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  thanks to social media, I don't have a love hate relationship
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  with socials, but there's been all these really positive
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  movements about focusing on abstinence and abstaining.
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  But what I've discovered through my own personal story and the
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  research I've done and like the last thousands of people I've
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  worked with is that it's not just about removing something,
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  but it's about building, like you just shared, building into
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  our lives and really coming to discover a life that we want to
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  stay sober for. But through my own journey too,
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  I recognize, you know, I can stop the substance use.
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  But what happened for me is like, that didn't mean that I
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  was instantly healthy and have this like, you know, rekindling
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  of my faith. What I needed to do was go
• 10:00
  deeper and address my mental health.
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  You know, look at ways that I could help with my, you know,
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  anxiety and depression, some of my untreated trauma symptoms
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  that were coming up when I took away substances, these other
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  things started coming to the surface.
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  And so addressing mental health, physical health, I know so many
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  people in long term recovery today that are like bodybuilders
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  and mountain climbers and we don't have to go to that
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  extreme. Having physical movement and
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  addressing our physical health is also a huge part of it.
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  And I go in the book, I talk about four pillars.
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  Actually, I don't want to give too much away, but I talk about
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  four pillars of recovery that go beyond just that sobriety focus.
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  Yeah, I love that. Well, that's one of the
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  questions I was going to ask. You were the four pillars.
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  Let me see hope, community service and Wellness.
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  And so you suggest in your book out of if a person had to pick
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  one, what would they start with first?
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  So let's let's dive into that. Yeah, yeah.
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  So yes, I do go into these 4 pillars that are really
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  structured around sharing, you know, kind of the intricacies of
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  what, what does, what do these mean?
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  And then also providing like practical ways that families can
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  support and better understand each of these parts of pieces of
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  recovery. So where I would start is where
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  I believe we start in the book, which is with hope.
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  And you know, I'm, I'm a Christian.
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  I'm also, I'm a researcher. So I'm going to put on my
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  research hat sometimes. But what the current research
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  says is that hope is, we know hope is real, right?
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  We know it from scripture. We know what the Lord says.
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  We we know it's a promise that we have, that our hope is an
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  anchor. And research shows that when
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  loved ones who have family members struggling with
• 11:53
  addiction or in recovery, when loved ones have hope for their
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  family members, oh, I love this. I'm going to tear up because
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  it's just so beautiful. Family members have hope for
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  their loved ones. They are more likely to sustain
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  recovery over the long term. They are more likely to engage
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  in treatment. So even if your loved one is
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  showing no worldly indication that things are going to get
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  better, maybe they're still using, maybe they're not
• 12:20
  trustworthy. Maybe you're struggling with
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  loving them, with setting boundaries.
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  Even if the world says, look, this person is a hot mess and
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  things you know, are not looking good, if we can ask the Lord and
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  petition to the Lord and bring people around us and have hope
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  for that person, they are more likely to maintain, to find and
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  maintain sobriety and so and recovery.
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  I always say like, start there, start with hope.
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  And if you can't hope for your loved one and, and trust me,
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  I've been there. I'm also an affected family
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  member and there have been times where it's been a real
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  challenge. That's when we lean our on our
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  community. And I think that's where
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  churches and faith communities can really come alongside
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  families who are dealing with this issue.
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  So yes, start with hope. Yeah, that's good.
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  And I, I'm thinking of faith too, because faith is now right
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  and speaking it out and, and like you said, like petitioning
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  to God and asking and, and having that faith and, and I'm a
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  big component. Obviously she speaks like
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  speaking it out in faith, Like Lord, even though you were
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  saying you're not seeing it in the natural that this person is,
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  you know, even close to recovery or whatnot.
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  It's speaking it out out and just thanking God.
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  Thank you, God, seeing your son or your daughter or your loved
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  one, your spouse sober and going.
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  Thank you God for his recovery and speaking out what you want
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  to see. I'm just such a advocate for
• 13:52
  that because you know, it goes back to all the verses, you know
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  that you see in Mark when Jesus said, you know, speak to this
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  mountain, you know, believe in your heart, don't doubt and you
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  will receive what you ask. And it's like there, there is
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  power in our tongue, there's power in our words and what we
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  say. And so I love that there's the
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  verse with faith and hope, you know, and having that hope is
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  like what you you want to see in the future too.
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  So it's like having that faith and hope is so essential in
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  supporting that loved one while they're battling or while
• 14:29
  they're in their recovery journey.
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  And. I love that so much and I you're
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  so right. And I think a lot of times in
• 14:35
  addiction recovery, we forget that like we can, we can
• 14:38
  remember, like we need to speak life over this person or in this
• 14:41
  situation. But when it comes to addiction,
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  it's like sometimes it's just such a siloed issue which needs
• 14:47
  to be brought into like the mainstream conversation.
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  When we talk about that. And it reminds me when I was in
• 14:53
  addiction treatment as a as a 17 year old girl, it was just a
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  baby. And I remember if there was
• 14:59
  something that a counselor there said to me spoke a life over me
• 15:04
  that has stayed with me my entire life.
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  And today it is one of the things that I say the most when
• 15:10
  I'm working with women one-on-one.
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  And I've included it in my writing and you're going to read
• 15:14
  it in this book. But the counselor said to me,
• 15:17
  your life has value and purpose. And I, and I get chills when I
• 15:23
  say it even today because I don't remember at that age, you
• 15:26
  know, I had lived through by 17, I had a overdosed on drugs, I
• 15:30
  was raped, I was abused, I was neglected, all of these
• 15:34
  different things. But when this person said this
• 15:37
  to me, it was like God just opened up a little space in my
• 15:41
  heart that made it true. And it provided a little bit of
• 15:46
  my own ability to hope for myself.
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  And it was like. Wow, if someone saw sees this in
• 15:52
  me now, maybe there is hope for me.
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  Maybe my life does have value and purpose.
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  And so like you said, words are powerful.
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  They're so powerful. And our belief and our hope and
• 16:03
  other people being certain of what we hope for, even if we
• 16:07
  don't see it, it is powerful. And we need, I think we need
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  again, remember to bring addiction into that fold.
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  And if we're affected family members and our loved ones are
• 16:16
  still struggling, that is a really important step that we
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  can take and continue to take. Yeah, 100%.
• 16:24
  I love that. OK, we've all heard the term
• 16:26
  tough love and especially in, you know, addiction and recovery
• 16:31
  programs, you know, And so I love that you recommend the
• 16:36
  shift in perspective of, you know, coming from that place, a
• 16:40
  conflict, you know, because tough love can sound really
• 16:44
  harsh, right? But and not so collaborative,
• 16:50
  but you kind of shift the focus. How can we come from a place
• 16:54
  instead of conflict to collaboration?
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  Just expound more on that tough love phrase that we always.
• 17:03
  Hear Yeah, well, so it's one of my least favorite phrases.
• 17:06
  I, I hate that phrase so much. And I I I don't say the well.
• 17:09
  It's not a it's not a feel good phrase.
• 17:12
  So it's like and usually. And usually when you're saying
• 17:17
  it, it's like tough lap, you know, it's not so nice.
• 17:22
  And our Mama hearts, I think sometimes they're like, wait,
• 17:24
  what? You want me to do what?
• 17:26
  And so kind of just backtracking a little context, just the whole
• 17:30
  idea of tough love really means that, you know, when our loved
• 17:34
  ones struggling with addiction, we are going to draw some really
• 17:37
  firm boundaries and basically shut them out.
• 17:39
  So it's like taking boundaries to to an extreme.
• 17:42
  So you won't answer calls, you won't let them stay in your
• 17:45
  house, You won't you basically will turn your backs on them
• 17:49
  until they meet XY or Z kind of expectations you have for them.
• 17:55
  And so tough love kind of came around about the same time.
• 18:00
  I don't know, it was probably dates me.
• 18:01
  But do you remember the whole like this is your brain on drugs
• 18:04
  commercial, right. So someone would crack an egg in
• 18:07
  a pan and they'd say this is your brain on drugs, you know,
• 18:10
  and you'd see it sizzling in the pan and make us all, you know,
• 18:13
  not wanting these drugs. Well, it did the opposite for
• 18:16
  me, but. Yeah, this is a very good one.
• 18:21
  Anyway, it wasn't anything. Right, right.
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  It was kind of this archaic way to explain addiction.
• 18:28
  But now we know so much more, the science from our experience,
• 18:32
  we just know so much more. And the same goes with terms and
• 18:36
  ideas like tough love. We know the research shows tough
• 18:39
  Love Actually doesn't work as well.
• 18:42
  Tough love, when we shut our loved ones out, it can cause
• 18:47
  more harm. And not just that, not just
• 18:49
  harming that person we care about and really want to help,
• 18:52
  but it harms us. And I've talked to mothers and
• 18:55
  it just breaks my heart who are counseled to give and show tough
• 18:59
  love, whose loved ones have since passed away, you know, and
• 19:03
  they just are destroyed. Like, could I have done more
• 19:07
  right? And I'm not saying it was like
• 19:08
  their fault by any means. And there might be someone
• 19:11
  listening right now who's who've, who have experienced
• 19:14
  that. And, and by no means is there
• 19:17
  anything we can do or not do that will cause some of those,
• 19:22
  you know, consequences. And so I think, but at the same
• 19:26
  time, when we have the opportunity to choose love, you
• 19:31
  know, I like to say that we can choose love first, but we can
• 19:34
  also choose to love the person who might still be struggling or
• 19:38
  person in recovery with boundaries that are healthy, but
• 19:42
  they're not these lines in the sand that are things that we can
• 19:45
  can't live with. I have a friend that has a
• 19:48
  saying and she, her daughter is now in recovery, but struggled
• 19:51
  for many years that she wants to do as a mother the things that
• 19:55
  she can live with. So when whatever the
• 19:57
  consequences is for her daughter, can I live with the
• 20:00
  fact that I didn't pick up the phone or I told my daughter that
• 20:04
  she couldn't come to holiday dinners, you know?
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  I think what what the research shows too, and a lot of
• 20:10
  treatment centers are moving away from counseling parents or
• 20:14
  other loved ones to show tough love because it isn't working.
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  What is working is figuring out ways that we can choose love
• 20:22
  with boundaries and then when we are having a hard time doing
• 20:27
  that, which is 100% understandable.
• 20:29
  I mean, the way that I treated my parents when I was using
• 20:31
  drugs and alcohol, it wasn't, it wasn't like me.
• 20:34
  It was like I was taking over. I was lying, I was stealing, I
• 20:37
  was doing all these things that don't of course today line up
• 20:41
  with my values. But even then it was like sin
• 20:43
  living inside me just working itself out and causing all this
• 20:46
  havoc and destruction. But you know, I, I don't blame
• 20:51
  my family for saying like, it was really hard to love you, But
• 20:55
  what we need to do in those places is not say parents have
• 20:58
  to just like RIP their teeth and just show up no matter what.
• 21:01
  We need to lean on our community now.
• 21:04
  We need to understand that this is when our community can step
• 21:07
  in. And there's a story I'd love to
• 21:10
  share. I was interviewing a mother for
• 21:12
  this book and her her son is now in long term recovery.
• 21:17
  But there was like a decade or so ago she was going to her
• 21:20
  small group at her church. And during this time, one of the
• 21:24
  other women in the small group's daughter was going through
• 21:27
  cancer treatment. And of course, when the daughter
• 21:29
  was going through cancer treatment, there was, you know
• 21:32
  how we all, we all love to show up.
• 21:34
  We got our meal trains, we got our prayer chains, we're sending
• 21:37
  flowers. We're doing all the things for
• 21:39
  this woman whose daughter is struggling.
• 21:41
  But this mom told me my son at that exact moment was in
• 21:46
  addiction treatment and I didn't get any phone calls and I didn't
• 21:49
  get any prayer chains and nobody mentioned me during the service.
• 21:52
  No pastor shout outs and no, you know, nothing.
• 21:56
  I think we need to change the way that we're looking at and
• 21:59
  view addiction from an evidence based perspective.
• 22:02
  And that's why I share a lot of that in the book as well to like
• 22:05
  help us get rid of the stigma. This isn't a different issue.
• 22:08
  She's like this mom told me my son was sick too, and I needed
• 22:12
  support. And so again, I think it just
• 22:15
  really highlights that important part that we need to start
• 22:18
  coming alongside family members in our churches who are
• 22:21
  struggling with addiction, who need help being able to choose
• 22:25
  love and to do that well, you know, with boundaries.
• 22:28
  I'm glad you shared that story because that brings an awareness
• 22:32
  when we're surrounded by the body of Christ, our our, our
• 22:37
  church family and recognizing prayer and the Lord to help
• 22:42
  them. So if one who's never really
• 22:45
  gone through addiction themselves may struggle with how
• 22:49
  to talk about addiction. What do you offer to families on
• 22:55
  how to have these conversations that feel supportive rather than
• 23:01
  combat combative? And before you, before you
• 23:06
  answer that question, I wanted to just briefly talk about band
• 23:12
  boundaries because I just wanted to add because boundaries are so
• 23:17
  important. But I think the problem is, is
• 23:20
  people don't know what boundaries mean or what they are
• 23:24
  pertaining to their situation. So in your book, do you put down
• 23:29
  examples like my my kids, you know, needing more money and we
• 23:36
  know that it's going to drugs and you know, so this is the
• 23:40
  boundary that you set. Do you specifically kind of go
• 23:44
  through what what what is boundaries pertain to that
• 23:49
  situation? Yeah, and I'm so glad you
• 23:52
  brought this up because I do, I feel like the idea of
• 23:55
  boundaries, it can be this very nebulous thing.
• 23:57
  And I think the world has kind of taken over this concept to
• 24:01
  completely, you know, in some senses, boundaries are like,
• 24:05
  hey, it's all about me. It's all about self-care.
• 24:07
  It's all about me taking care of #1 you know, which is me.
• 24:11
  Yeah, right. So I think the world is kind of
• 24:13
  Co opted this thing that is is very biblical when we think
• 24:16
  about loving ourselves so that we're also able to love and show
• 24:20
  up for our neighbors. But in the book I talk about,
• 24:23
  you know, ways that parents and other family members can show up
• 24:28
  and support while also not potentially causing more harm,
• 24:35
  right, because we want to help. We don't want to harm.
• 24:37
  So for example, you know, a little bit along with what you
• 24:40
  brought up, but talk about if we are meeting our loved ones basic
• 24:46
  needs. So maybe that's, and my parents
• 24:49
  did this for me take you take them grocery shopping, make sure
• 24:53
  that our loved ones have safe shelter.
• 24:55
  So that might not be in our home if that doesn't feel safe for
• 24:58
  us, but maybe it's helping to connect them with the case
• 25:01
  manager or some other type of housing resources.
• 25:05
  Maybe that's, you know, going out to eat, meeting basically
• 25:08
  our basic needs. We cannot find and maintain
• 25:13
  sobriety and recovery and understand that our lives have
• 25:16
  purpose and value if we are hungry, if we have nowhere to
• 25:20
  sleep and rest our, you know, if if all of our basic needs aren't
• 25:23
  met and we don't feel safe. And so as mothers, as parents,
• 25:27
  as as loved ones, if we want to show up and love our our person,
• 25:31
  well, it is bringing them a meal, taking them out to eat
• 25:35
  some of those simple things, shopping now, is it handing them
• 25:38
  $100 bill? Probably not, probably not, but
• 25:42
  are there other ways that we can show up and help support them
• 25:45
  without, you know, if there's concern like, hey, they're going
• 25:47
  to maybe use this money for substances or, you know,
• 25:51
  whatever the situation is. So I think starting small and
• 25:54
  starting with meeting some of those basic needs can be really
• 25:57
  helpful. And then in the book too, in the
• 25:59
  appendix, actually, I go through just even specific examples of
• 26:03
  how to have conversations, like what type of communication is
• 26:07
  helpful, being curious, asking certain types of open-ended
• 26:11
  questions. So you can, you know, have a
• 26:13
  conversation that doesn't feel confrontational.
• 26:16
  But at the same time, you know, sets that boundary of like, Hey,
• 26:20
  we want you to be, well, we don't condone this lifestyle,
• 26:24
  but we're here and we love you and we're going to try to love
• 26:27
  you as unconditionally as we can while you're, you know, while
• 26:31
  you're finding the path of recovery that works for you.
• 26:36
  So hopefully that answered your question.
• 26:38
  Yeah, I know it did. That's that's great.
• 26:40
  Yeah, that's so good. And the communication is so key,
• 26:44
  like understanding. Hey, this because we're doing
• 26:47
  all this for you doesn't mean we're condoning your lifestyle
• 26:50
  or condoning, you know this and that, but you know, we're here
• 26:55
  to love on you and we want you, like you said, to be well.
• 26:59
  So just being open in that conversation, open in that
• 27:02
  communication and making it clear and making it clear with
• 27:06
  the boundaries. And I love that your book shares
• 27:09
  all of that and your appendix that you were talking about as
• 27:13
  well on how to have these conversations, these hard talks.
• 27:18
  Your book also talks about how the brain heals during recovery.
• 27:23
  So this is interesting, how the knowledge of science behind
• 27:28
  addiction can help families. So expand on that.
• 27:32
  Yeah, well, this is a really fun chapter for me to write.
• 27:34
  So it's really in the book. It's called Neuroscience for
• 27:37
  Normies. I'm not a brain surgeon.
• 27:39
  I'm not a neuroscientist and I kind of make some jokes about
• 27:43
  that in the book, but I lean heavily on current research.
• 27:46
  And I had a really good friend of mine who actually is a brain
• 27:49
  surgeon, Doctor Lee Warren, contribute to and review the
• 27:52
  section. I just wanted to provide as
• 27:55
  accurate and like up to date of the research that we have
• 27:59
  because it has changed so much since, you know, the whole like
• 28:02
  egg in the frying pan days of like this is our brain on drugs,
• 28:05
  right? What we know today is so
• 28:07
  different than what we knew just a couple decades ago.
• 28:10
  And I remember when I was in addiction treatment, what I
• 28:13
  learned was terrifying, which was like, you've really, you
• 28:16
  know, messed up your brain and like you're, you know, there's
• 28:19
  probably no going back and all of the damage you've caused, but
• 28:23
  it's just not true, which is amazing.
• 28:25
  Like God has designed our bodies in just like it.
• 28:28
  Just when I think about it, I mean, it's just like
• 28:32
  overwhelmingly beautiful. It's amazing.
• 28:34
  Yeah. Like he's created our minds and
• 28:36
  our our brains to be renewed. Not just the thought life, but
• 28:40
  the actual like physical brain, the organ, you know, it is
• 28:46
  amazing. And so despite the decades of
• 28:50
  substance use that I did to my young brain, like they can be,
• 28:55
  it can be completely renewed. And so there's this whole
• 28:58
  concept of neuroplasticity and it just basically talks about
• 29:01
  this renewal that happens, you know, that God has designed.
• 29:05
  And so the longer we have in recovery, the more like neural
• 29:09
  pathways that are created around these new habits and these new
• 29:14
  beliefs. And, and so we basically go from
• 29:18
  like, it's like walking in this like really brambly path in the
• 29:22
  wilderness, right? Like there's addiction, there's
• 29:23
  the addiction path. It gets very worn and we get
• 29:26
  very used to it, but we're able to create completely new path,
• 29:30
  like going a hole in a different direction completely.
• 29:33
  And so our minds are literally renewed at the cellular level.
• 29:38
  And so I'm really excited about this chapter because I feel like
• 29:42
  when we understand the real science and faith, the truth
• 29:48
  behind what happens to our minds, not just in addiction but
• 29:51
  in recovery, it's going to give families a lot of a lot more of
• 29:55
  that hope that we need. Yeah, it is just, it's
• 29:57
  beautiful. It's amazing.
• 29:59
  Oh my gosh, yes, yeah. I bet just after reading all
• 30:04
  that, like you said, giving families that hope that they
• 30:07
  need and you know, especially when you're just like, Oh my
• 30:10
  gosh, what's happening to their insides of all the stuff that
• 30:15
  they've been, you know, putting themselves into.
• 30:18
  But you know, God is so good. And that is just so our God, our
• 30:23
  creator, to be the restorer and the Redeemer and to, you know,
• 30:29
  not only heal, but give us newness, give us new creation,
• 30:35
  new everything, and how amazing we could just get washed over
• 30:44
  and be made new, have new pathways like you're saying.
• 30:49
  And I know I did a little bit of a study, Caroline Leaf, Dr.
• 30:54
  Caroline Leaf, she touches a lot on that with the brain.
• 30:57
  But it just how amazing just what the word of God does to
• 31:03
  create new neural pathways and to stop the patterns, you know,
• 31:09
  that maybe you've, you know, grown up seeing or you've grown
• 31:13
  up being taught with. And then how the word can just
• 31:17
  go in there and just wash it, your brain, your mind all new
• 31:22
  and create these new patterns, if you will, new ways that are
• 31:28
  godly and that are right thinking, right standing with
• 31:33
  the Lord. So it's the same thing like
• 31:36
  you're saying with recovery. And I just, I mean, I'm just
• 31:40
  warmed up with how amazing God is right now.
• 31:43
  He's so good. I know, right, And that's, Oh, I
• 31:46
  love that. And I can see like, you know, it
• 31:48
  just makes us kind of beam when we think about it, because it's
• 31:51
  so beautiful and just the truth of what God promises us and, and
• 31:56
  what he's done for us. And I think it really speaks to
• 32:00
  the power behind the testimony of people in addiction recovery
• 32:04
  because this is like a, a miracle.
• 32:08
  I mean, it, it's like it's a walking testimony when we can
• 32:11
  share what happened, what it was like, what happened and what
• 32:14
  it's like for us today. And so I shared about this a
• 32:17
  lot, but I, there's really nowhere I would rather be than
• 32:20
  in a room full of people in recovery because it gets real,
• 32:24
  real fast. And it gets, and it gets like
• 32:27
  this. It gets so encouraging and just
• 32:30
  becoming over overcome by the testimony of of the Lord and
• 32:34
  what he's done for us. Yeah, it's amazing.
• 32:37
  And you know, I start the book talking about this, this line
• 32:41
  that I as I was researching this book.
• 32:43
  It was so interesting kept I kept hearing this over and over
• 32:47
  again. I'd go to a meeting or I'd have
• 32:48
  a conversation with a loved one or, but it was this, it was, you
• 32:53
  know, when my loved one found recovery, it was like the light
• 32:58
  in the light came back. Like I could see this light in
• 33:01
  their eyes again. And to me that just that concept
• 33:05
  is so beautiful, but it is, it's like we are lit up.
• 33:08
  You're lit up because of what the Lord has done.
• 33:11
  It is not anything that we've done, but it's, it's what God
• 33:15
  has done in US. And and that in and of itself.
• 33:18
  And I've seen, you know, have a chapter in the book actually
• 33:20
  called recovery revival. I mean, I've seen like there's
• 33:23
  like revival happening in addiction recovery communities
• 33:26
  because of this. Yeah, yeah.
• 33:28
  So I hope we continue to talk about this being a space where
• 33:32
  where revival is happening to. We're we're saying yes to Jesus.
• 33:37
  And when those revivals break out, that's everyone's totally
• 33:41
  surrendered, you know, and it's saying yes to God.
• 33:45
  And I no longer want to live like my old way.
• 33:49
  I want to live for Jesus. So, OK, so can you share with me
• 33:53
  a take away, something that the listener can ponder on or take
• 33:56
  action in? And where can they purchase your
• 33:59
  book and any goodies that you're offering?
• 34:03
  Absolutely. Well, I, you know, I would just
• 34:04
  encourage listeners or folks watching to think about, you
• 34:09
  know, are there ways that you can either learn more about how
• 34:14
  to choose love and, and hope for your loved one, even if you're
• 34:17
  struggling with that? So maybe that's connecting and
• 34:20
  community. There are a lot of churches, so
• 34:23
  many churches that have recovery ministries and those aren't just
• 34:27
  for people who are struggling with substances themselves.
• 34:30
  It's for the whole family usually.
• 34:32
  So I would say connect with your church.
• 34:34
  Do you have a recovery ministry? If you don't, maybe it's time
• 34:37
  for your church to think about starting one, but find people
• 34:41
  that you can connect with. Also, I definitely encourage
• 34:45
  folks, obviously pick up a copy of the book.
• 34:47
  You can find it at when you love someone in recovery.com.
• 34:51
  When you love someone in recovery.com and pre ordering
• 34:55
  and folks who are going to be doing that.
• 34:57
  You know, we, there's a lot of bonuses, including my favorite,
• 35:00
  which I just have to say I'm, I love this so much.
• 35:03
  I able, I was able to have a conversation with my husband.
• 35:06
  So it's an exclusive interview with my husband Matt.
• 35:09
  And we talk about our journey as you know, going from dating and
• 35:13
  him learning about what recovery is to how it is a part of our
• 35:16
  lives and our kids lives and our extended family today and just
• 35:20
  how he's learning more about recovery through our family's
• 35:23
  journey. So I'm really excited to share
• 35:26
  that with folks as well. And I love it.
• 35:29
  I love everything about this and I love your message, your book,
• 35:33
  and just you're so precious. Thanks for coming on here,
• 35:36
  Caroline. For having me, it's been so just
• 35:39
  wonderful and thank you for your ministry and what you do and
• 35:42
  just sharing the truth with folks and speaking life.
• 35:45
  It is so important for all of us.
• 35:47
  Thanks, Caroline. Thank you so much for listening
• 35:51
  today. And I trust that God has
• 35:53
  encouraged you through this story.
• 35:55
  Did you know this podcast is on YouTube?
• 35:58
  Hop on there and subscribe and you can see a live recording of
• 36:02
  each episode. And For more information on this
• 36:06
  ministry and to access free downloads, please visit my
• 36:09
  website at jamieelizabeth.com. That's JAYME elizabeth.com.
• 36:16
  And let's connect beyond this podcast by going to my Instagram
• 36:20
  handle, Jamie Elizabeth. She speaks life or Facebook.
• 36:24
  Until next time, my friend, I hope God reveals himself through
• 36:27
  your own life story.