Latest / The Well Unfiltered with Dr. Suzanne Vester / Season 1, Episode 3: Heard, Understood, and Empowered

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Season 1, Episode 3: Heard, Understood, and Empowered · The Well Unfiltered with Dr. Suzanne Vester

0:17
SPEAKER_01: So welcome back to the Well Unfiltered.
0:19
SPEAKER_01: I'm Dr.
0:20
SPEAKER_01: Seuss, and I have in my notes I'm going to say I'm here with my favorite co-host, but I should say I'm here with my favorite lab experiment, guinea pig, co-host.
0:32
SPEAKER_00: At least only co-host so far.
0:35
SPEAKER_00: You have a lot of guinea pigs.
0:37
SPEAKER_00: Don't tell your clients that lots of guinea pigs.
0:40
SPEAKER_01: They're not guinea pigs.
0:41
SPEAKER_01: They're really not.
0:42
SPEAKER_01: No, today I want to talk about something I think you can shed light on as somebody not in the space, but someone who hears and talks with a lot of people who are sharing their frustrations because of one, because of who how you've gone through things, but because of who you're married to, and they're just kind of looking for answers, I think.
1:04
SPEAKER_00: I kind of get a front receipt.
1:05
SPEAKER_01: You do.
1:06
SPEAKER_01: You do.
1:07
SPEAKER_01: Um, so this is what comes up constantly and is something that we've talked about because you do sometimes come home and say, hey, you know, this person needs this.
1:15
SPEAKER_01: What's their next best step?
1:17
SPEAKER_01: Apart from like actually talking to me about it, which would be the first thing, but what is their first next step?
1:23
SPEAKER_01: But they come in and they've had conversations with their practitioner, throwing no shade, but this is just kind of something that comes up.
1:31
SPEAKER_01: But they've had a conversation with their practitioner.
1:34
SPEAKER_01: They didn't really get an answer to the question that they were asking, or they felt like they were um, I don't say stonewalled or anything like that, but just not really getting anywhere other than the common answer of, well, I have this, this, and this for it.
1:51
SPEAKER_01: And none of them were very appealing options in that space.
1:55
SPEAKER_01: So they end up in holistic care because they're a little dissatisfied and disenfranchised with the care they've received through the traditional path.
2:04
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think sometimes they feel like they're not being listened to.
2:07
SPEAKER_01: Yes, that is a big part of it.
2:11
SPEAKER_01: When um, and I think I'm going to get to the stats in just a second, but in the scope of my experience, I try to get the first appointment of the morning when I see my practitioner because to be certain, if I'm the first one they see in the morning, they can't be behind yet.
2:28
unknown: Right.
2:29
SPEAKER_01: And it never fails.
2:31
SPEAKER_01: They're still already behind.
2:34
SPEAKER_01: And when you are in a situation where you are perpetually trying to meet the demands of a system that is cranking out more and more of them, you can't ever really get to a point of being ahead.
2:46
SPEAKER_01: So you may go in, your appointment might be at one o'clock, you might actually get into a room by 1.30, but you may not see your doctor until two or later.
2:54
SPEAKER_01: And it's a tremendous time suck for a lot of people.
2:58
SPEAKER_01: And they're already frustrated when the doctor gets in there.
3:00
SPEAKER_01: The doctor comes in, they ask a few rote questions, um, check a few vitals, and then kind of scoot you out the door.
3:07
SPEAKER_01: Copy, paste, repeat in a lot of situations.
3:12
SPEAKER_01: So because you've you are not in the space and you don't hear a lot of the complaints, I think that it's it's good because you can speak for most people in the space and in the situation.
3:23
SPEAKER_01: So conventional medicine does important things.
3:27
SPEAKER_01: I say that quite often.
3:28
SPEAKER_01: There's a difference between the medical path and natural path.
3:31
SPEAKER_01: They both have their place.
3:32
SPEAKER_01: They both have a lot to offer in the space of the place they occupy.
3:37
SPEAKER_01: But where the system fails, most people, I think, is offering solutions that actually have sticking power and don't just serve a symptom process, but actually serve the problem of the process.
3:54
SPEAKER_01: So what we hear a lot, and I think you've heard this quite a bit, um, not just from me, but from other people, they'll say things like, My labs are normal, but I feel terrible.
4:04
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's probably the number one thing I hear.
4:06
SPEAKER_00: Okay, they've been to a doctor, they've had lab work done, right?
4:10
SPEAKER_00: And the they're even trying some solutions, nothing changes.
4:16
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes the blood work might change, but the reason they came in looking for blood work or looking for an issue, that hasn't changed.
4:24
SPEAKER_00: Right.
4:24
SPEAKER_00: Um, but even a lot of times more often than not, nothing has really changed.
4:30
SPEAKER_00: And they're just super, super frustrated.
4:32
SPEAKER_00: Like, there's gotta be, there's gotta be a better way.
4:35
SPEAKER_00: Right.
4:35
SPEAKER_00: Because I'm not feeling well, and these this is what my labs are telling me.
4:39
SPEAKER_01: Right.
4:40
SPEAKER_01: I tell people often if you're chasing a lab value, I can supplement you into whatever lab value you're looking for, essentially.
4:49
SPEAKER_01: Not always, but very, very often.
4:52
SPEAKER_01: But that isn't going to solve the reason that they were that you're feeling bad or that they were not in the right place to start with.
4:59
SPEAKER_01: It's it's not going to help that problem.
5:02
SPEAKER_01: But I think a bigger thing that's missing is there's normal and then there's optimal.
5:08
SPEAKER_01: I just had a conversation with a client two days ago about this.
5:13
SPEAKER_01: Because if I looked at their labs, they were inside of the normal range.
5:19
SPEAKER_01: But if I look at what I consider to be optimal range, they were way missing the mark and they feel awful.
5:27
SPEAKER_01: But their labs, the picture that shows says, no, you should be good.
5:31
SPEAKER_01: Like we don't really need to treat anything because there's nothing here to treat.
5:35
SPEAKER_01: But what we also don't talk about is where do those numbers come from?
5:40
SPEAKER_01: And for the majority of labs that you get, it is from a broad population sample.
5:48
SPEAKER_01: So let's think about the US and the state of health care and health overall in the US.
5:54
SPEAKER_01: So if you're looking at a broad spectrum of the population as what you're looking for in that normal range, you're basically taking an average of unwell people.
6:05
SPEAKER_00: I was just thinking, what a horrible sample.
6:07
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I mean, that no shade.
6:10
unknown: Right.
6:10
SPEAKER_00: Right.
6:11
SPEAKER_00: But if you look at we live in the country that has the most access to health care, yet we are the most unhealthy population in the world.
6:21
SPEAKER_00: Right.
6:21
SPEAKER_00: I'd rather look at, and I don't know if you're going there or not, I'd rather look at what a European blood work looks like, where they're active and it's whole foods and they're way more strict on what goes into their food, and they they do spend time outside doing things.
6:35
SPEAKER_00: It's like I like I I don't know if you're going there, but I when you said that, I'm like, because I didn't know it was just American numbers.
6:41
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, oh my gosh, well, that explains a lot.
6:44
SPEAKER_01: Well, I don't know specifically if it is just American numbers, but I'm just saying if we look at the U.S.
6:48
SPEAKER_01: population as a whole, and over the last two decades, for example, if we look at how what is considered inside normal limits has shifted and changed for certain lab values, as we've gotten sicker, that range has gotten smaller.
7:06
SPEAKER_01: And I've I can't help but think that part of the reason that we are sicker and that has shrank is because we're missing the bigger the big picture in in things.
7:16
SPEAKER_01: But that's just my opinion, which is my podcast.
7:18
SPEAKER_01: So I get to say what I what I think.
7:20
SPEAKER_01: But I think that there's just a miserable disconnect between what is considered normal and what is actually feeling well.
7:29
SPEAKER_01: And if you're just looking at a number, then we we don't we can't quantify how do you feel inside of a number.
7:40
SPEAKER_00: I I actually have an example of that.
7:41
SPEAKER_00: You know, I have been drawing my own personal blood work, or my doctors have been drawing blood work since my testicular cancer in 1996, 98.
7:51
SPEAKER_00: And you know, if you remember, one of the times we I came in and my doctor said, Hey, your liver value is how we gotta figure out what's going on.
8:00
SPEAKER_00: And we have been actively involved in some type of a gym space for a long time.
8:04
SPEAKER_00: And I just went on a tangent on my own.
8:06
SPEAKER_00: This was early days of like internet, like you had to dial up.
8:12
SPEAKER_00: And but I found out that that particular liver value showed up when people were in car wrecks and when there was some type of a muscle trauma that it would affect that particular value.
8:22
SPEAKER_00: So when I went to see him, I said, Hey, could my workouts have anything to do with this?
8:26
SPEAKER_00: Because there are extremely intense workouts where I'm sore for six or six days, you know?
8:32
SPEAKER_00: And he goes, Yeah.
8:34
SPEAKER_00: So again, I'm on the high, I'm over normal in a liver value, but know, okay, well, this could be the root cause of it.
8:42
SPEAKER_00: Because the root cause of it was the muscle trauma.
8:44
SPEAKER_00: Right.
8:45
SPEAKER_00: And I was experiencing pain in my muscles because I was sore.
8:49
SPEAKER_00: Right.
8:50
SPEAKER_00: But not going to the doctor because, hey, I feel sore, because I knew what caused it.
8:54
SPEAKER_00: It was the workout.
8:55
SPEAKER_00: So when we went back into that, he said, okay, I need you to do me a favor, take two weeks out of the gym, which was almost impossible.
9:01
SPEAKER_00: I guess.
9:02
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that hurt that hurt your head.
9:03
SPEAKER_00: But just in two weeks' time, that particular liver value fell back into a quote unquote normal.
9:09
SPEAKER_00: Right.
9:10
SPEAKER_00: And he said, Well, now we know what your normal is.
9:12
SPEAKER_00: Right.
9:13
SPEAKER_00: So from that point on, if my liver value was, you know, I think 47 is the high, if it was in the low 50s, low 60s, he never questioned it.
9:21
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I'm not a drinker, I'm not like I don't have other things.
9:24
SPEAKER_00: I'm not we're not on prescription drugs.
9:26
SPEAKER_00: Like it's I don't have a lot that could affect my liver value.
9:28
SPEAKER_00: So I mean, just that one small example is hey, I was feeling bad.
9:32
SPEAKER_00: I was feeling bad because of the workout.
9:35
unknown: Right.
9:35
SPEAKER_00: So that and that workout was causing my liver value to go up.
9:38
SPEAKER_00: So it is out of the normal, but I knew the root cause of it, and now we knew what my normal was, right?
9:44
SPEAKER_00: Which for me was optimal.
9:45
SPEAKER_01: Right.
9:46
SPEAKER_00: Because I mean I was trying to stay healthy.
9:48
SPEAKER_01: I can give two more examples of this.
9:50
SPEAKER_01: So when I went to see my general practitioner last um September because of gallbladder pain, I was not in an active flare at that moment.
9:59
SPEAKER_01: Felt great actually when I went to see her.
10:02
SPEAKER_01: Um, but when she did some just preliminary labs, she's like, you know, I want to rule out some things.
10:07
SPEAKER_01: Let's just make sure before we take this next leap into you know possible surgery.
10:12
SPEAKER_01: And one of them was an extensive liver test.
10:15
SPEAKER_01: And she was very concerned because she ran it in the office that day and she had me wait.
10:20
SPEAKER_01: She came back in, she's like, I'm really concerned.
10:22
SPEAKER_01: Because this is what we normally see, because I do have mine drone at least every six months, if not every three.
10:28
SPEAKER_01: And they've really never varied outside of, you know, maybe five or six points.
10:34
SPEAKER_01: And it was like over 2,000.
10:37
SPEAKER_01: Like, so think about it from being like under 50 to over 2,000.
10:41
SPEAKER_01: And she said, I just don't really know what's going on.
10:44
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, I mean, not to not to be like, um, hello, duh, but I came in saying that I was having a lot of gallbladder pain.
10:53
SPEAKER_01: So wouldn't we expect the liver value?
10:57
SPEAKER_01: I mean, wouldn't we think that that could be, you know, related somehow?
11:02
SPEAKER_01: She's like, Yeah, but we want to make sure that's it.
11:04
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, okay, that's the literally the only thing on me right now that is giving me a fit.
11:08
SPEAKER_01: And if you would like to take it, you can have it.
11:10
SPEAKER_01: I'll give it to you right now.
11:12
SPEAKER_01: But it was just funny to me because it was had I gone in and just had routine stuff done and had been experiencing pain, but not enough that made me want to go, oh, this is like I'm tapping out.
11:24
SPEAKER_01: What else would have been done to find what was wrong because that value is so high without taking like into consideration?
11:33
SPEAKER_01: Well, I mean, I'd had a gallbladder flare like five or six days prior to that, and I was, you know, in a lot of pain.
11:39
SPEAKER_01: Anyway, second example um is your homocysteine level.
11:42
SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
11:43
SPEAKER_01: So you've been tracking homocysteine for what, two, three years.
11:48
SPEAKER_00: Three, three and a half years.
11:49
SPEAKER_00: Because my GP that's one of his favorite numbers.
11:52
SPEAKER_01: It is, and and rightly so.
11:54
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's a good number to know, it's a good number to track, but yours was consistently tracking incredibly high.
12:01
SPEAKER_01: And we had gone through every possible option alternative to to bring it down naturally, to do all the things.
12:08
SPEAKER_00: I was on every B vitamin in the alphabet.
12:11
SPEAKER_01: And so I finally just said to you, like, I think we need to have you checked for the MT MTHFR gene mutation.
12:20
SPEAKER_01: Because if you have one of those markers, then your body's not going to be converting all of this stuff correctly and it's gonna cause more stress than less.
12:27
SPEAKER_01: Right.
12:27
SPEAKER_01: We need to know if you actually have that problem.
12:30
SPEAKER_01: And what happened?
12:31
SPEAKER_00: The GP said, that's actually a great idea.
12:34
SPEAKER_00: And it was funny because when I was getting my blood drawn, the lady that draws my blood, because she thinks it's you know interesting that homocysteine is his number one thing to be looking at because it does have it does, it is a correlation aspect with cognitive decline.
12:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and inflammation.
12:48
SPEAKER_01: So it's it makes sense.
12:49
SPEAKER_00: So it's a real thing to be measured.
12:51
SPEAKER_00: She looked at me and she goes, Is this something we're gonna be pulling all the time now?
12:55
SPEAKER_00: She goes, Is this his idea or was it Suzanne's?
12:57
SPEAKER_00: I was like, not Suzanne's idea.
12:58
SPEAKER_00: She goes, Oh, okay.
13:00
SPEAKER_00: And it came back that I did have the mutation.
13:02
SPEAKER_01: Yes, which means we we shift gears in terms of what kind of B vitamins you take.
13:07
SPEAKER_01: Right.
13:07
SPEAKER_01: They're methylated, so your body knows what to do with them.
13:10
SPEAKER_01: Um and actually I have really kind of gone down that path of that's really what I recommend.
13:16
SPEAKER_01: Because if you don't have the mutation and you take a methylated B vitamin, you're still gonna process it well.
13:21
SPEAKER_01: So having done that, yours has fallen back below normal.
13:25
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so into a really, really good spot.
13:27
SPEAKER_01: So I guess my point is you you can't just look at your lab numbers because they're not gonna tell you necessarily like why you feel bad because they could come back normal, and then you leave super frustrated because you're like, I just knew something was wrong.
13:40
SPEAKER_01: And something might be wrong, but we're just we're looking in the wrong place to find it.
13:45
SPEAKER_01: But specifically, um, and I'll go to specifics.
13:48
SPEAKER_01: So B12, iron, vitamin D, thyroid, they can be in the low normal, and you can still feel like a dumpster fire.
13:56
SPEAKER_01: You can still feel awful.
13:57
SPEAKER_01: And for some folks, vitamin D, iron, and b12, they feel better if it's slightly above the normal range, or for some people, very much above what we consider a normal range.
14:10
SPEAKER_01: But everyone's different.
14:12
SPEAKER_01: So if you just pull a random lab here and there, you're going to miss the point.
14:16
SPEAKER_01: You're gonna miss the piece that I think is probably the most important for a lot of people.
14:22
SPEAKER_01: And I'll even go so far as to say someone we know very, very closely has been looking at a certain um red blood cell value and iron value for how long now?
14:32
SPEAKER_01: Like two almost two years?
14:35
SPEAKER_01: And it's it's been a constant like, this is this is what my doctor thinks I need to do.
14:40
SPEAKER_01: What do you think?
14:41
SPEAKER_01: And of course, I'm gonna be like, okay, well, what your doctor is saying isn't wrong, it's just incomplete from my perspective.
14:48
SPEAKER_01: We need to add these other things back in.
14:51
SPEAKER_01: And finally, after almost two years, we're in a good place.
14:56
SPEAKER_00: And when I got he even said the other day, like, I feel good.
14:59
SPEAKER_01: So when I got the lab numbers, I was like, wow, these are really good.
15:02
SPEAKER_01: So I sent back, man, these are trending in a great direction.
15:05
SPEAKER_01: And the question back was, well, you know, am I where I need to be?
15:08
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, I don't know.
15:09
SPEAKER_01: How do you feel?
15:10
SPEAKER_00: Right.
15:11
SPEAKER_00: It's always that.
15:12
SPEAKER_01: How are you feeling?
15:13
SPEAKER_01: Because the numbers can say one thing, and you can feel great or you can feel awful.
15:17
SPEAKER_01: So, like, how do how are you feeling?
15:20
SPEAKER_01: Let's let's focus on that and then let's back into maybe what we need to look at and check.
15:26
SPEAKER_01: So, what this leads to after like your frustration is Dr.
15:30
SPEAKER_01: Um Dr.
15:31
SPEAKER_01: Search.
15:32
SPEAKER_01: I won't name the name, but we'll just say like people get online search engine and they start looking for all of the things.
15:40
SPEAKER_00: And now there's search engines that aren't search engines, they're artificial intelligence search engines, which I think is gonna make it worse.
15:49
SPEAKER_01: So, well, for example, you could be having a really bad headache and you go down the rabbit trail, and next thing you're you're you're crying in your closet because you think you have a brain tumor.
15:58
SPEAKER_01: Not making light of people who have brain tumors, but you can end up down a rabbit trail that's gonna make you think you have a hundred different things.
16:06
SPEAKER_01: I remember in graduate school when we were going through the DSM, like you could diagnose yourself very easily with a lot of things, and you have to be mindful.
16:15
SPEAKER_01: Like, just don't do that.
16:16
SPEAKER_01: Same thing applies when you get certain things and you're track, you know, tracking certain symptoms.
16:22
SPEAKER_01: You just have to be mindful.
16:23
SPEAKER_01: You just have to be really mindful.
16:25
SPEAKER_01: But you want to make sure that you're getting the whole story.
16:28
SPEAKER_01: So whatever brought you in and whatever complaint you're having is a symptom, but you have history, you have habits, you have stress, you have sleep relationships, you have mental, spiritual, emotional stressors, you have all of these things.
16:43
SPEAKER_01: So you can't separate someone's physical form from their the rest of themselves.
16:50
SPEAKER_01: Like it has to be done as a whole person picture, or otherwise you're you're just missing the point.
16:56
SPEAKER_01: You're just missing the point.
16:57
SPEAKER_01: And you don't want to be a passive recipient.
17:00
SPEAKER_00: Right.
17:00
SPEAKER_00: I think that's the other thing.
17:02
SPEAKER_00: I I think there is a a a level of intimidation when you go into a doctor's office because you know you're not feeling well, so you got this idea that okay, well, I'm not sure I'm being heard.
17:16
SPEAKER_00: And then by the way, do I even have the right, I'll call it that, to sp to speak on my own behalf.
17:24
SPEAKER_00: Like I they they don't have any say in what happens to them.
17:28
SPEAKER_00: You know, we have someone that we know who is actually a doctor, an MD who has just been diagnosed.
17:36
SPEAKER_00: And he said that.
17:38
SPEAKER_00: I feel like now that I've been diagnosed, I've got no say as to what's happening next.
17:43
SPEAKER_00: Right.
17:44
SPEAKER_00: So even someone in the field feels that when they're the ones that have been affected by oh wow, we found something and we need to do something.
17:52
SPEAKER_00: Right.
17:54
SPEAKER_00: So it was not encouraging to hear it from him, but it was like, oh, it's everybody feels like I don't have a voice to be my own um advocate, maybe.
18:05
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I think that you want to be heard and you want to be heard like through all of it.
18:13
SPEAKER_01: And today's model doesn't really allow for that kind of time to be spent.
18:19
SPEAKER_01: My initial intakes with new clients are at least an hour and a half.
18:24
SPEAKER_01: And if we we don't touch all the bases in that first hour and a half, we schedule some more time because I I need to know you almost as well as you know you.
18:32
SPEAKER_01: And I need to be able to piece together things and make connections because I'm not living inside your body.
18:39
SPEAKER_01: I can I can see things differently, I can make connections differently, I can I can help you understand things differently.
18:47
SPEAKER_01: I'll give an example.
18:48
SPEAKER_01: So the um the client I spoke to just the other day when we were reviewing labs, I go through it as an educational opportunity because I don't want you to be passive in the process.
18:59
SPEAKER_01: It's a partnership.
19:00
SPEAKER_01: I need for you to to give me feedback on the things I'm making suggestions about because you're the one who has to decide to do it or not.
19:07
SPEAKER_01: You're the one who has to be compliant.
19:09
SPEAKER_01: So if it's just not in your wheelhouse and your bandwidth to do that right now, then okay, let's table that if it's not a red flag thing.
19:17
SPEAKER_01: Let's table it until you're more able and have more capacity to do it.
19:22
SPEAKER_01: But again, it's a partnership.
19:24
SPEAKER_01: And I want you to have the education, which is going to give you the confidence to go to the next step.
19:30
SPEAKER_01: So you can't just sit back and say, okay, well, everything came back good.
19:34
SPEAKER_01: Now I'm back at square one.
19:36
SPEAKER_01: I don't have anything that I can use on my own because I don't know what these lab values are.
19:41
SPEAKER_01: So when I go over them, like we end up with like 16 or 17 pages of this is what this is, this is where in your body it functions primarily.
19:50
SPEAKER_01: These are the things that it works with, this is why you need it, this is how you feel, you know, when you don't have enough.
19:56
SPEAKER_01: Like it goes through all of those things because, in my opinion, education yields empowerment.
20:02
SPEAKER_01: And how are you going to have a good conversation with the with your practitioner that you're frustrated with if you don't feel like you have enough understanding of it to be to be competent?
20:16
SPEAKER_00: Right.
20:16
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I so when you you're saying that, I mean, again, my cancer diagnosis in 98 sent me down a path of self-discovery, is what I'll call it.
20:26
SPEAKER_00: Like I didn't want to be my own patient, but I wanted to know what was going on.
20:31
SPEAKER_00: And that was the the beginning of I'll call it the information age and internet age and all that.
20:37
SPEAKER_00: Um but it allowed me to deep dive into those numbers, right?
20:41
SPEAKER_00: This is before you even were in this practice.
20:44
SPEAKER_00: And I had a doctor who was super willing to have those conversations with me.
20:47
SPEAKER_00: I just talked about the liver value thing.
20:49
SPEAKER_00: Like he was okay, but now we know what your normal is.
20:52
SPEAKER_00: And when I started going to the GP I have now, because you knew how much self- um education and understanding of my own body I had, and he is very thorough and super intelligent.
21:07
SPEAKER_00: And you said, Y'all are gonna butt it.
21:10
SPEAKER_00: And we did.
21:10
SPEAKER_00: But the very first time we walked in, he he um expressed his authority of understanding of all the things.
21:20
SPEAKER_00: And so when he started talking about blood work, I not quite quickly let him know, but just said, Hey, by the way, I understand all of that.
21:28
SPEAKER_00: I you know you're not talking over my head, we can have a real conversation about this and it sent us down a different path.
21:36
SPEAKER_00: But it that first initial conversation was actually uncomfortable.
21:40
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it was I felt insulted because I felt like he was talking to me like I was a kindergartner.
21:46
SPEAKER_00: And I think he was a little insulted because I understood.
21:50
SPEAKER_01: I don't know if he was insulted in so much as that's just not the norm.
21:53
SPEAKER_00: Well, probably.
21:54
SPEAKER_00: But again, you know, I I started seeing him four years ago.
21:58
SPEAKER_00: Is that right?
21:58
SPEAKER_00: It's been a while.
21:59
SPEAKER_00: It's been a while.
22:00
SPEAKER_00: But at that point, I mean I was, you know, 20 years, because I'm, you know, at this point, almost 30 years outside of my diagnosis.
22:08
SPEAKER_00: But it's also been blood work every six months and understanding my body and understanding how my body works and how it responds to things.
22:14
SPEAKER_00: So being able to have a deep conversation with hate, I I know how I'm feeling.
22:20
SPEAKER_00: I know what I'm looking for.
22:21
SPEAKER_00: Like it's not I'm not trying to tell you not to do your job, but we can have a real conversation.
22:26
SPEAKER_00: And it's great because now we do.
22:28
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
22:29
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's you know, it's we we I'm I saw him Tuesday, you know, and he's like, Oh man, it was great to see you.
22:35
SPEAKER_00: That was not how we that is not how that first conversation ended.
22:38
SPEAKER_00: So but again, it's it it's you're doing right that individually with people, like you're walking them down that process of hey, this is the level, this is where you are, this is what it does.
22:51
SPEAKER_00: Now, how do you feel?
22:52
SPEAKER_00: Like you're you're deep diving into that so they can have a real conversation.
22:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
22:56
SPEAKER_01: Because when we do get laps back on someone and everything falls within the normal, so there's no red flags, then we talk about what's optimal.
23:03
SPEAKER_01: Then we can say, okay, based on these things that not being optimal, and and mind you, optimal with very few exceptions falls very, very closely to the normal range, but it might be on the higher end in some cases.
23:19
SPEAKER_01: So when we're doing that, we can say, okay, now this is how you feel right now.
23:23
SPEAKER_01: This is how you're saying you want to feel.
23:26
SPEAKER_01: So this is how we support you in order to get there.
23:29
SPEAKER_01: Some of the support means go to bed earlier, drink more good hydration sources, do those kinds of things, you know, get in the sun every day, get away from your desk, your computer, whatever.
23:42
SPEAKER_01: So some of it has nothing to do with anything other than making a lifestyle shift in some areas, which is also very important.
23:49
SPEAKER_00: And heart.
23:50
SPEAKER_01: In heart, yes, because so many people will like like we've said, will go in, everything looks fine.
23:56
SPEAKER_01: You've been told that, for example, you're you're just too stressed, you have anxiety, it's just part of getting older, it's you know, all these things.
24:05
SPEAKER_01: And after you hear that enough times, you begin to think that it is you and that you are broken, and then that's just something you're gonna have to live with, which is a choice, and you can live that way if you choose to.
24:16
SPEAKER_01: You can also decide to be like, you know what?
24:19
SPEAKER_01: No, I'm not being heard in this space.
24:22
SPEAKER_01: Let me let me go and have somebody actually listen to me, walk me through it, help me understand it.
24:28
SPEAKER_01: And sometimes I will help people understand it and send them back to their provider.
24:33
SPEAKER_01: Hey, use me as a resource.
24:35
SPEAKER_01: I don't need to be your primary.
24:36
SPEAKER_01: Use me as a resource if that's what you need.
24:39
SPEAKER_01: Go back to your provider, ask these questions.
24:42
SPEAKER_01: If you're not satisfied with the answers, come back.
24:46
SPEAKER_01: We'll try again.
24:47
SPEAKER_01: But I want them to take a proactive role in their care because you have to know how to advocate for yourself.
24:54
SPEAKER_01: You have to know how to speak up when something doesn't feel right.
24:58
SPEAKER_01: And by the way, you have to know what actual consent is.
25:01
SPEAKER_01: Consent is you saying yes to something, understanding the risk and benefit, not having your provider say, this is what we're going to do.
25:09
SPEAKER_01: You have a choice in that.
25:11
SPEAKER_01: And I think a lot of people have forgotten that they have a choice in that process.
25:16
SPEAKER_01: But where we are statistically is you're more likely to have symptoms minimized or attributed to something like stress or anxiety than actually the physical problem that you're experiencing, which I think is dismissal, which is frustrating to me and frustrating to a lot of people too.
25:34
SPEAKER_01: But a lot of things, a lot of things that get triggered by this constant seeking of information or seeking, I don't even want to say validation, because you can validate a lot of things that aren't good.
25:48
SPEAKER_01: But but just seeking somebody to say, okay, I hear you, I understand what you're saying.
25:53
SPEAKER_01: This is what I think could be good, like let's let's try to support your body differently, or whatever it is.
26:00
SPEAKER_01: But we've just gotten to a point where we're willing to accept whatever answer that we get because we somehow feel like, like you just said, with the person that we know, that we no longer have a choice.
26:12
SPEAKER_01: Like now I have this information, and I'm just getting into the the fun ride at the amusement park and away we go, and I'm just gonna be here until I'm done.
26:22
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, but what you're doing is you're making sure they're heard and empowered than anything.
26:28
SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's a because you're helping them understand.
26:31
SPEAKER_00: And I I think that's and you said a while ago, I don't have to be your main just using me as a resource.
26:38
SPEAKER_00: You know, I think sometimes that leads to you being their main.
26:41
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
26:42
SPEAKER_00: Because they do feel heard.
26:46
SPEAKER_00: They do feel they understand, and they do feel empowered because you're making them the priority.
26:53
SPEAKER_00: You're making the root cause of it the priority.
26:56
SPEAKER_01: I just got a message from someone this morning.
26:58
SPEAKER_01: Um, their general practitioner and I don't we don't see things the same way.
27:03
SPEAKER_01: So I've given my thoughts, you know, and what I would personally do if I were walking in this person's shoes.
27:10
SPEAKER_01: And I've said, you know, this is what I would do.
27:12
SPEAKER_01: But again, I'm making suggestions.
27:15
SPEAKER_01: You have to make the ultimate decision.
27:16
SPEAKER_01: And I think that right now they're feeling like they're in a bit of a tug of war between our differing opinions.
27:22
SPEAKER_01: But I don't want anyone to ever feel like, okay, I have to pick.
27:25
SPEAKER_01: No, you don't have to pick.
27:26
SPEAKER_01: You don't have to do what either of us recommends.
27:29
SPEAKER_01: Like you are you, you get to decide.
27:31
SPEAKER_01: So let's make sure that whatever it is that you're deciding on that you're okay with.
27:36
SPEAKER_01: Now, when I use empowerment, that is not that is not permission to go out and and search out all the things and self-diagnose.
27:44
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
27:44
SPEAKER_01: That is not what I'm saying.
27:46
SPEAKER_01: But what I want you to be able to do is understand what's going on around you, understand what what tests, what tests are, what's being ordered and why it's being ordered, understand your results to a degree.
27:59
SPEAKER_01: I'm not going to go and read anybody's MRI, don't want to, not my specialty, don't even desire to.
28:04
SPEAKER_01: But basic labs and stuff like that, let's make sure you understand.
28:07
SPEAKER_01: So when your doctor says to you, everything looks good, and one, you've not even seen a copy of it.
28:13
SPEAKER_01: But two, everything might look good on paper, but you're not good.
28:19
SPEAKER_01: So the goal is like, I want you to be heard, I want you to feel empowered, and I want you to be educated.
28:25
SPEAKER_01: I want you to understand what is is going on because once you understand it, you're, you're, you're better able to, again, advocate for yourself, but you're better able to make good decisions about what you feel like is best for you in the next season.
28:42
SPEAKER_01: And you can't do that if you're not being heard.
28:46
SPEAKER_00: Again, like I said, you asked me to come on because I get to see it from a 30,000-foot view, but I think that that's where the majority of people sit.
28:53
SPEAKER_00: I think the vast majority feel like I don't think they're listening to me.
28:58
SPEAKER_00: I don't understand exactly what they're saying.
29:01
SPEAKER_00: And I don't know how much authority I have.
29:04
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
29:04
SPEAKER_00: You know, in that space.
29:06
SPEAKER_01: Because I have I have even gone into my provider's office and I've let her know very quickly, look, I didn't ask your permission, but this is what I've been doing.
29:15
SPEAKER_01: And it seems to be doing well for me.
29:18
SPEAKER_01: And sometimes it's been met with, well, that's very dangerous.
29:21
SPEAKER_01: I don't think you should do that.
29:22
SPEAKER_01: And my question back is why is it dangerous in your opinion?
29:27
SPEAKER_01: What could be the potential problem in the in the long term?
29:30
SPEAKER_01: And once we talk it out, it's it's really not that dangerous.
29:35
SPEAKER_01: And there are no long-term problems that we can foresee.
29:39
SPEAKER_01: Now, if you were going into it as someone who had, you know, kidney problems or whatever, yeah, then it would be dangerous.
29:48
SPEAKER_01: But that's not every patient.
29:49
SPEAKER_01: And I think we sometimes as patients get lumped into the every patient, and it just doesn't fit.
29:58
SPEAKER_01: It's not a one size fits all.
30:00
SPEAKER_01: And I want to wrap this up because we're getting close to time.
30:02
SPEAKER_01: But one thing I think that is really important that people need to hear and understand is when people come in and they come into holistic care, they they may have told their entire story for the first time ever, and not just in bits and pieces.
30:19
SPEAKER_01: And because they've been telling it in bits and pieces, they've been getting bits and pieces back from providers or people that they've worked with.
30:29
SPEAKER_01: But they might have literally, for the very first time, like from start to finish, like, this is my story.
30:35
SPEAKER_01: And because I have the entire context, I have a much better idea of where to go next.
30:41
SPEAKER_01: That not by any fault of their own, but they're not a they're not a collection of separate parts.
30:48
SPEAKER_01: They are a whole working system.
30:50
SPEAKER_01: And when we start looking at it as a whole working system and not a collection of parts, then we're able to make the connections that are needed to to really make things different.
31:00
SPEAKER_00: And I think that's you know, hearing who people that I have said, hey, you need to you need to have a conversation with Suzanne.
31:08
SPEAKER_00: I mean, we've we have had three or four in the past two or three months that have been searching for answers to things that they had no idea what was going on.
31:19
SPEAKER_00: And inside of, I mean, and again, I don't want this to seem like because again, this path usually takes longer.
31:25
SPEAKER_00: It takes more adjustment.
31:26
SPEAKER_00: That's probably the reason pharmaceuticals are where they are because it's a lot of people.
31:32
SPEAKER_00: Um but inside of a couple of weeks, they're like, Man, I'm different like things are different for me.
31:37
SPEAKER_00: And and it was because of a conversation.
31:40
SPEAKER_00: I I just that's re legitimately a full-blown, hey, this is what I've got going on.
31:47
SPEAKER_00: This is all of it.
31:49
SPEAKER_00: Like you said, dumping the whole story.
31:51
SPEAKER_00: And I think you I mean you talked about the hour and a half intake.
31:54
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I can't ever remember sitting in a doctor's office in front of a doctor.
31:58
SPEAKER_00: I've been in a doctor's office for an hour and a half a lot.
32:01
SPEAKER_01: I've been in the waiting room.
32:02
SPEAKER_00: But I've never been in front of the doctor for an hour and a half for them to walk through my whole story.
32:08
SPEAKER_00: Because to them, my whole story is the file they have.
32:11
SPEAKER_00: And I know when they look at a file, and this is again, I don't want to I'm throwing shades.
32:16
SPEAKER_00: They are a vital part of our system, but they're just spread extremely thin.
32:24
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
32:25
SPEAKER_00: And because of that thinness, they they take your file, which mine's because of the tremendous amount of blood work I've had done, it's probably four or five inches thick.
32:36
SPEAKER_00: And they look through the last three pages.
32:38
SPEAKER_00: What's been going on lately, you know, and what you're getting is that five or six inches of information in one setting so that you can help make a better decision, I think.
32:49
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
32:50
SPEAKER_01: Because I think it goes back to you know, find someone who's going to listen to you first.
32:54
SPEAKER_01: If you're not happy, it is it is incredibly hard to get in with providers of all kinds.
33:01
SPEAKER_01: I've heard horror stories about there being wait lists of up to you know nine months to a year.
33:07
SPEAKER_01: So if you are in a situation where you're in an urgent, like urgent health crisis, that's why we see so many people going into the ERs and to the quick cares and those kinds of things because they can't get in with an actual provider that's going to see them, you know, over time.
33:23
SPEAKER_01: So that's problem one.
33:25
SPEAKER_01: But if you have someone and you're feeling, you're just not feeling settled about them.
33:31
SPEAKER_01: I'm not saying drop them.
33:32
SPEAKER_01: Don't cancel your appointments, don't transfer your record, don't do any of those things.
33:35
SPEAKER_01: That's drastic.
33:37
SPEAKER_01: Don't, don't leave them.
33:38
SPEAKER_01: But perhaps take the next step to have it addressed differently.
33:42
SPEAKER_01: Just open a different door.
33:44
SPEAKER_01: It may not be a good fit for you.
33:46
SPEAKER_01: You may not understand it.
33:47
SPEAKER_01: It may not make sense.
33:48
SPEAKER_01: You may not like it.
33:49
SPEAKER_01: Totally fine.
33:50
SPEAKER_01: Nobody's going to be offended if you decide that it's just not for you.
33:54
SPEAKER_01: But if you're already dissatisfied and you're already just feeling very disillusioned with things, try a different path, open a different door, have a different conversation.
34:03
SPEAKER_01: You will take at least two or three things away from it that will benefit you until you're no longer here.
34:08
SPEAKER_01: No doubt.
34:09
SPEAKER_01: Every time.
34:10
SPEAKER_01: Every time.
34:11
SPEAKER_01: So if you were to sum up your um your outside view, because you do get a front row seat.
34:16
SPEAKER_01: So some things I think you don't really prefer to have a front row seat too.
34:20
SPEAKER_01: But because you do have a front row seat, if you had to tell the folks listening what you perceive to be the biggest benefit as somebody not in the space, what would it be?
34:32
SPEAKER_00: I I think it's those three words.
34:34
SPEAKER_00: I think I I think people leave heard.
34:38
SPEAKER_00: Um they leave educated.
34:41
SPEAKER_00: I say leave, like and I think they have a clear understanding of how much authority they do have over their own their own body.
34:51
SPEAKER_00: Um I think the having options, you know, we on the first podcast we did this, you know, one of the things I think I would miss would be the the um the confidence of what I'm meta what I'm putting in my body and metabolizing correctly.
35:07
SPEAKER_00: I think it gives people confidence of of understanding.
35:11
SPEAKER_00: Education, like it leads to confidence.
35:15
SPEAKER_00: When people are more edu the more educated someone is, the more confident they are.
35:19
SPEAKER_00: And so when they're they're sitting with you and you're educating them rather than quote unquote doctoring, um, I think it just leads them to make I call it a higher level decision.
35:32
SPEAKER_00: I um and them not trying to microwave their way to a fix.
35:38
SPEAKER_00: They they they understand, hey, this is going to take some adjustments on my part, so let's not try to microwave it, let's slow cook it.
35:46
SPEAKER_00: Um I think at this point there's enough of the proof is in the pudding, people that you got through your practice that they can literally say, hey, this took a little longer than a pill would have taken.
36:01
SPEAKER_00: But I understand my body.
36:04
SPEAKER_00: I understand how I'm feeling, I'm understanding how I'm functioning, and because of that, I'm able to make better decisions.
36:12
SPEAKER_00: Right.
36:13
SPEAKER_00: Um, and I'm the one making the decision.
36:16
SPEAKER_00: I mean owning that decision.
36:18
SPEAKER_00: I think it makes a difference.
36:19
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, makes a difference.
36:21
SPEAKER_01: So if this is struck a chord with you and you feel like you're in either situation where you're in a great situation, you have somebody who is hearing you out, educating you, empowering you, or if you're on the flip side of that and you're frustrated and a little disenfranchised and looking for a different opportunity, just reach out.
36:38
SPEAKER_01: Let's start a conversation, let's see what's going on with you and what your best next step would be.
36:44
SPEAKER_01: Till next time.