Latest / ChangeMakers with Katie Goar / Episode 139: Tiffany G. Dickerson, “The Housing Highlighter”, Interest Platforms

Transcript

Episode 139: Tiffany G. Dickerson, “The Housing Highlighter”, Interest Platforms · ChangeMakers with Katie Goar

0:05
Speaker 1: This is change Makers with Katie Gore finding the right
0:09
Speaker 1: solutions for the affordable housing community.
0:13
Speaker 2: This week's change Maker is Tiffany Dickerson, who is known
0:17
Speaker 2: as the housing Highlighter. Tiffany helps public housing authorities communicate
0:22
Speaker 2: with clarity and purpose, and through her company interest platforms,
0:27
Speaker 2: she partners with agencies to strengthen their voice and help
0:32
Speaker 2: advance the cause of affordable housing. Welcome to the Change
0:36
Speaker 2: Makers Podcast, Tiffany. It is a pleasure to have you here.
0:40
Speaker 3: Thank you. Katie. Is an honor to be considered a
0:43
Speaker 3: change baker and to be here with you today.
0:45
Speaker 2: Let's just start with basically how you came into affordable housing.
0:52
Speaker 3: I read that.
0:54
Speaker 2: You started in residence services, which actually seems very very
0:59
Speaker 2: divine in many cases for what you're now doing. But
1:03
Speaker 2: let's go back a few steps and tell us how
1:05
Speaker 2: you got started in affordable housing.
1:07
Speaker 3: Well, let's see, it's a very unconventional journey that I
1:10
Speaker 3: made it to affordable housing. When I got out of college,
1:13
Speaker 3: I was not destined for affordable housing. I actually was
1:18
Speaker 3: an adult probation and parole officer for five years, I believe,
1:22
Speaker 3: and that was a job that I loved and being
1:25
Speaker 3: that we're military, my husband's military. We move around a lot.
1:29
Speaker 3: So it just so happened that after I had my
1:32
Speaker 3: first child, I was a stay at home mom and
1:35
Speaker 3: I ended up moving back to the area that I
1:37
Speaker 3: grew up in. So I came in contact with an
1:41
Speaker 3: individual from the Goldsborough Housing Authority and she was talking
1:44
Speaker 3: to me about how she had a ross grant and
1:49
Speaker 3: that someone on the staff had left and that she
1:53
Speaker 3: needed to fill the role, but there was only one
1:55
Speaker 3: year left on the contract, and she said, you know,
1:58
Speaker 3: we're having trouble because you know, nobody wants to work
2:01
Speaker 3: for you know, just the year, and you know without
2:04
Speaker 3: the ensurety of knowing that they're going to be able to,
2:07
Speaker 3: you know, stay on full time. And she was like,
2:09
Speaker 3: you know, if you're interested, you might would be perfect
2:11
Speaker 3: with your case management background and probation. And I said, okay,
2:16
Speaker 3: And mind you, I had been I stayed at home
2:18
Speaker 3: mom for like six years at that time, so going
2:22
Speaker 3: into housing that was my first step inside an affordable
2:27
Speaker 3: housing complex I had. I hadn't visited the area or
2:32
Speaker 3: anything of that nature. So within that first week of working,
2:38
Speaker 3: I was like, Wow, you guys do so much and
2:42
Speaker 3: why doesn't anybody know about this, And so it just
2:45
Speaker 3: so happened that you know, as I work in residence
2:49
Speaker 3: services and as the assistant Ross Grant coordinator, I got
2:53
Speaker 3: the opportunity to meet so many residents to you know,
2:56
Speaker 3: really engage with them, to create flyers, to create newsletters,
3:01
Speaker 3: to host events and you know, stuff of that nature.
3:04
Speaker 3: And when I did when the Ross Grant was up,
3:09
Speaker 3: mister Goodson at the time, the CEO, he was very
3:13
Speaker 3: impressed with my work and he wanted me to stay
3:16
Speaker 3: on in a different role even though I was moving,
3:19
Speaker 3: and so I was happy I took the opportunity, and
3:24
Speaker 3: that shifted me from really working inside residence services with residents,
3:28
Speaker 3: but allowed me to stay in the background and handle
3:32
Speaker 3: their social media, handle their newsletters, all the admin stuff,
3:36
Speaker 3: and also was able to help with you know, just
3:39
Speaker 3: resident engagement ideas. And so basically he he just put
3:46
Speaker 3: me on the map. He started telling all the housing
3:49
Speaker 3: authorities that he knew that you needed a Tiffany in
3:51
Speaker 3: your back pocket. And so that's what made me create
3:55
Speaker 3: a business around it.
3:57
Speaker 2: So why do you think, in your own words, why
4:00
Speaker 2: do you think it's so important that housing authorities craft
4:05
Speaker 2: their message?
4:07
Speaker 3: Because for so long. I mean, it's been deemed as
4:12
Speaker 3: the slums, the projects where crime happens, drugs are infested.
4:19
Speaker 3: It's just low income, low poverty, and nobody is trying
4:23
Speaker 3: to do any better than what they are. And I
4:27
Speaker 3: didn't see that when I was there, and I feel
4:30
Speaker 3: like I was so amazed at the work, the impact
4:34
Speaker 3: that the housing authority was having that I wanted to
4:37
Speaker 3: be the person that told the story, you know, I
4:39
Speaker 3: wanted everybody to be amazed that, you know, what housing
4:42
Speaker 3: authorities actually do, the work that they're doing outside of
4:46
Speaker 3: just providing.
4:47
Speaker 2: Housing, and so many times that negative flash is what's heard.
4:55
Speaker 2: And like you mentioned, the stories heard are the you know,
5:00
Speaker 2: they're the they're the bad ones. And so you know,
5:04
Speaker 2: the bad story hits the headline or what I like
5:08
Speaker 2: to say, above the fold, and good stuff gets buried.
5:12
Speaker 2: And that's what I believe is so wonderful about what
5:15
Speaker 2: you're doing, is you're saying, you know, there's bad, but
5:19
Speaker 2: there's good, and let's make sure there's a microphone for both,
5:23
Speaker 2: because the bad needs to be addressed, no doubt about it.
5:26
Speaker 2: You know, all the stories when an elevator doesn't work,
5:29
Speaker 2: or you know, there's somebody that drives through the property
5:32
Speaker 2: and does you know, bad things those do need to
5:36
Speaker 2: be talked about. So solutions and programs and enforcement and
5:40
Speaker 2: all the things can try to address that. But on balance,
5:44
Speaker 2: we also need to know how it's working. And that's
5:48
Speaker 2: really really what I appreciate about what you're doing. And
5:52
Speaker 2: tell us, for example, because I'm sure you've had to
5:55
Speaker 2: handle both the bad stories and the good ones. But
5:58
Speaker 2: tell us, let's talk about some of the good ones first, uh,
6:01
Speaker 2: because that's that's you know, we Uh. We can all
6:05
Speaker 2: point to a bad one and we'll get to We'll
6:07
Speaker 2: get to some of that because I want to I
6:09
Speaker 2: want to hear on how you handle that. But let's
6:11
Speaker 2: talk about the good ones first. Do you have some
6:14
Speaker 2: success stories of working with housing authorities that you really
6:19
Speaker 2: want to share with us? Uh? You don't have to
6:23
Speaker 2: name the housing authority, but maybe talk about some examples
6:26
Speaker 2: or some projects or some scenarios that you'd like to
6:29
Speaker 2: share with us.
6:30
Speaker 3: I would say that a lot of the housing authorities
6:33
Speaker 3: that I actually contract with are doing some phenomenal things,
6:37
Speaker 3: from the youth field program to all the self sufficiency programs,
6:44
Speaker 3: even just seeing some how some of how the agencies
6:48
Speaker 3: and their residence services team or their ross coordinators or
6:52
Speaker 3: boots on the ground. I think that is very important
6:55
Speaker 3: in the communities that we serve, you know, getting out
6:59
Speaker 3: and creating a relationships so that you know, individuals know
7:02
Speaker 3: that you care, that you're supported, and that you're listening
7:07
Speaker 3: to them as well. And I think that some of
7:11
Speaker 3: the residence services programs that that are happening that are
7:14
Speaker 3: so positive would be uh realizing that an individual doesn't
7:19
Speaker 3: have their license and don't have you know, the transportation
7:22
Speaker 3: to get back and forth dependent upon you know, buses,
7:27
Speaker 3: and sometimes those buses don't run at the hours that
7:30
Speaker 3: you need them to run for you to get to work.
7:32
Speaker 3: So you know, looking at that in a complex and
7:37
Speaker 3: figuring out a way to solve it. And so some
7:40
Speaker 3: of our housing authorities actually offer you know, basic drivers
7:43
Speaker 3: classes so that their residents can actually learn on site
7:47
Speaker 3: how to you know, pass the driver's education course as
7:51
Speaker 3: well as you know, get their license so that they
7:54
Speaker 3: can you know, be a be a driver. I think
7:57
Speaker 3: it's very important, you know, all so with the credit programs,
8:02
Speaker 3: financial literacy, these are all the initiatives that are you
8:06
Speaker 3: know big that I believe helps the residents where they are.
8:11
Speaker 3: You got programs like book Tacular where you know, they
8:17
Speaker 3: switch from it being just Halloween, but they give out
8:21
Speaker 3: books and promote early literacy. And uh, that's one of
8:24
Speaker 3: my big things too, you know, have a nonprofit that
8:27
Speaker 3: promotes early literacy and you know, being a part of
8:29
Speaker 3: the book rich environment. That's you know, a huge uh
8:35
Speaker 3: endeavor for some of the housing authorities that I work with.
8:38
Speaker 3: And the scholarships. Uh never knew that. You know, housing
8:43
Speaker 3: authorities offer scholarships and it's my house. And authorities they
8:47
Speaker 3: actually give back to their feeder schools, you know, where
8:50
Speaker 3: their kids are you know, going for elementary, middle school,
8:53
Speaker 3: and high school. They actually provide you know, financial resources
8:58
Speaker 3: to the actual school itself to help with their own initiatives.
9:01
Speaker 3: I think those are.
9:03
Speaker 2: One of our prior podcast guests was from the Waco
9:06
Speaker 2: Housing Authority and they talked about a scholarship program that
9:10
Speaker 2: they do every year and it is amazing to hear
9:14
Speaker 2: how they bring youth and do college tours with them
9:20
Speaker 2: to really show them, hey there's more than a community college,
9:23
Speaker 2: or hey, you actually have opportunity to go out of
9:27
Speaker 2: state or in state with certain different programs and Waco was.
9:33
Speaker 2: I mean, they're just amazing about that and some of
9:37
Speaker 2: these things, you know, we want to say housing authority
9:41
Speaker 2: is about, you know, is the paint done, is the
9:44
Speaker 2: regulation done? Is the file correct? That is all very
9:48
Speaker 2: very fair because that's why they're funded. But when you
9:52
Speaker 2: hear housing authorities do something like this, it is so
9:57
Speaker 2: encouraging because it it's really adding to the self sufficiency
10:02
Speaker 2: and it's helping that that family unit say okay, now
10:07
Speaker 2: your house is stable.
10:08
Speaker 3: Now can we focus on employment, health education?
10:12
Speaker 2: And that's the beauty of affordable housing too.
10:16
Speaker 3: How do you see a housing.
10:19
Speaker 2: Authority embrace talking about this, like what what do you like?
10:25
Speaker 2: You know, to get them from a mindset of saying, hey,
10:27
Speaker 2: we're just here about the file and the you know,
10:30
Speaker 2: the paint and the work order and all of that,
10:32
Speaker 2: but to like, how do you see them or how
10:35
Speaker 2: do you connect with them why I don't want to
10:37
Speaker 2: say storytelling, so but begetting this message about about what
10:42
Speaker 2: else they're doing, Like how do you see them transition
10:45
Speaker 2: and view that as important?
10:47
Speaker 3: Or how do you talk to them about that? So
10:49
Speaker 3: basically I just let them know that whether you stay silent,
10:55
Speaker 3: there's somebody out there talking about you. You know, your
10:58
Speaker 3: resident is complaining online or you know one of your
11:01
Speaker 3: partners may actually have posted about one of your events
11:04
Speaker 3: that was a huge, you know, huge for them, and
11:08
Speaker 3: it should be something that you want to spotlight as well.
11:10
Speaker 3: But you're not on the scene. You know, you're not
11:14
Speaker 3: growing up online and why you know, you're doing great
11:18
Speaker 3: things behind the scenes, but nobody wants nobody knows about it.
11:21
Speaker 3: So if there's any way that you're going to shift
11:24
Speaker 3: the narrative, you have to be up. And you know,
11:28
Speaker 3: some of my agencies have seen some very positive impact
11:34
Speaker 3: from just their media, you know, since they have started
11:37
Speaker 3: posting online and being more social. We've had some housing
11:45
Speaker 3: authorities where you know, of course crime is going to happen.
11:48
Speaker 3: Things are going to happen, but now instead of already
11:53
Speaker 3: blaming it being the house and authorities property, we've had
11:56
Speaker 3: media actually come and say, hey, we know you gots
11:59
Speaker 3: are doing and so much good stuff. Yeah, this really
12:02
Speaker 3: happened in your you know, neighborhood, It's really happened in
12:07
Speaker 3: your community. Or you know, when housing authorities when people
12:13
Speaker 3: comment and say, hey, I never knew that you did
12:17
Speaker 3: all this, or you have residents from other communities commenting like, hey,
12:22
Speaker 3: I wish you know you all had we all had
12:25
Speaker 3: this in our neighborhood, or you know, can a regular
12:30
Speaker 3: citizen that's not even a housing authority resident, can we
12:34
Speaker 3: participate in this initiative that you have in this event.
12:38
Speaker 3: I think those are you know, huge ways for housing
12:42
Speaker 3: authorities to see that, you know, speaking up and telling
12:47
Speaker 3: as much positive as you possibly can, it helps to
12:51
Speaker 3: balance whenever something negative hits, you know, it makes people question, Hey,
12:56
Speaker 3: I wonder if that's even true, because we see so
12:59
Speaker 3: much good that I can't believe this, you know.
13:03
Speaker 2: And you know, it's human nature if somebody gives you
13:08
Speaker 2: one negative thing and you know, you forget the five
13:10
Speaker 2: positive things. I mean, this is really really a human nature.
13:14
Speaker 2: But there's something different though about a housing authority and
13:19
Speaker 2: how that they're often portrayed as the bad guy. They're
13:24
Speaker 2: portrayed as the you know, entity that can't do anything wrong,
13:27
Speaker 2: and it's in then there's this like whole mob. You know,
13:32
Speaker 2: once one story is written and there's like twelve stories written,
13:36
Speaker 2: and it there's a dynamic here and I don't know
13:39
Speaker 2: what that's called.
13:40
Speaker 3: I don't know what that is.
13:42
Speaker 2: But I just you know, having worked at a housing
13:45
Speaker 2: authority myself and having been in this industry for three decades,
13:49
Speaker 2: there's just some dynamic that's like, let's make the housing
13:52
Speaker 2: authority the bad guy. And you know, sometimes that is
13:59
Speaker 2: at their own doing because they haven't followed the rules
14:02
Speaker 2: and regulations. But other times that's because they've also not told, hey,
14:08
Speaker 2: this is what we are doing. Right, Hey, look at
14:11
Speaker 2: the property. It is looking great. We have new landscaping,
14:15
Speaker 2: we have new doors, we have new roofs, and okay, yeah,
14:19
Speaker 2: somebody drove through and hit the sign. However, we're gonna
14:23
Speaker 2: fix it. But there's pieces that are missing. And that's
14:27
Speaker 2: what I really appreciate about what you're doing, is you're
14:31
Speaker 2: trying to fill in those gaps for them, and do
14:35
Speaker 2: housing authorities, I mean do from your perspective once they
14:41
Speaker 2: engage with you, like, what are they saying as an
14:47
Speaker 2: organization or a leadership team, Like what do they what's
14:50
Speaker 2: the first things that they say after they've started to
14:53
Speaker 2: see the value.
14:55
Speaker 3: I didn't know this was possible. You know, it's usually
14:57
Speaker 3: what they say, I didn't know how to tell the
14:59
Speaker 3: story or how just to be consistent made a difference.
15:02
Speaker 3: You know, they thought their website was just enough, and
15:07
Speaker 3: you know, unfortunately, you know, your website is a good initiative,
15:12
Speaker 3: but it's not enough, especially when it becomes the real time.
15:17
Speaker 3: You know, I saw a lot of housing authorities actually
15:19
Speaker 3: want to get online during COVID. That's when they realized that,
15:24
Speaker 3: oh my, you know, I need a way to communicate
15:27
Speaker 3: and my website isn't enough, you know, especially if you
15:30
Speaker 3: don't have things on your website that allow you to
15:33
Speaker 3: reach out to your residence in that real time. But
15:37
Speaker 3: you know, everybody's on social media, you know. You know,
15:40
Speaker 3: when we're in our cars and we're driving somewhere and
15:43
Speaker 3: we wanted to decide on where we're going to eat
15:45
Speaker 3: at you know, we're looking at Google reviews and we're
15:48
Speaker 3: into Facebook pages, Instagram to look at the pictures of
15:51
Speaker 3: the food that we may be you know, interested in eating.
15:55
Speaker 3: And that's the same way. You know, resident app cants
16:00
Speaker 3: are looking at housing authorities. You know, when they apply
16:03
Speaker 3: to your area, they're you know, they've already checked out
16:07
Speaker 3: most of you know, what you're showing on your social media.
16:10
Speaker 3: They're seeing the programs that they may want to be
16:12
Speaker 3: a part of. You know, Uh so I definitely believe
16:16
Speaker 3: that when housing authorities reach out and we start working together,
16:20
Speaker 3: they do see the impact. They do see the good.
16:23
Speaker 3: You know, I've heard CEOs tell me that, hey, I
16:26
Speaker 3: didn't even know that was going on in my town,
16:28
Speaker 3: you know, or I didn't even know that was going
16:30
Speaker 3: on in my agency. But you know, people keep coming
16:33
Speaker 3: up to me saying, hey, man, I didn't know you
16:35
Speaker 3: did all that, and you know, the CEO is like, yeah,
16:40
Speaker 3: we do, but he you know, they don't follow the
16:43
Speaker 3: page themselves, you know, so it's like they have no
16:45
Speaker 3: clue either. But you know, they're getting the positive and
16:49
Speaker 3: the praise out in the community, and you know, I'm
16:53
Speaker 3: I'm the one that's doing all the talking. They just
16:55
Speaker 3: send me information and I just put it out and
16:57
Speaker 3: make it positive for them.
16:59
Speaker 2: Yeah, So it's a there's an awareness piece that they're
17:04
Speaker 2: not aware of either their presence or their messaging or
17:09
Speaker 2: they're letting somebody else tell the story. I mean that
17:12
Speaker 2: that's what I'm hearing you say. And then there's also
17:17
Speaker 2: this engagement piece where they have to decide whether they
17:21
Speaker 2: want to take control of that narrative and you know,
17:25
Speaker 2: make sure more than just the bad is being said.
17:29
Speaker 2: I'm sure you do this so much that you probably
17:32
Speaker 2: can take a real good dashboard and say, I see,
17:36
Speaker 2: I see what the problems are?
17:40
Speaker 3: Are there any are there?
17:42
Speaker 2: You know for somebody who doesn't have the awareness, how's
17:44
Speaker 2: an authority that maybe doesn't have the awareness, or how
17:47
Speaker 2: would you move them from not having the awareness to say, Okay,
17:53
Speaker 2: I think I need to do something like is there
17:56
Speaker 2: a self test that they can to step back without
18:01
Speaker 2: needing the crisis, you know, without needing the problem here? Like,
18:04
Speaker 2: is there something that they can self test and say
18:08
Speaker 2: maybe we should consider this. What what would you tell
18:11
Speaker 2: them to do when.
18:12
Speaker 3: They realized that the residents and the community, the stakeholders,
18:16
Speaker 3: the cities, you know, do not know what's happening at
18:20
Speaker 3: their agency, you know, ready to apply for a grant
18:24
Speaker 3: or they need buy in from other partners and the city.
18:29
Speaker 3: Mostly is when they you know, realize that, hey, we
18:32
Speaker 3: haven't been telling our story because you know, we go
18:35
Speaker 3: to these meetings and nobody knows anything about what they're
18:39
Speaker 3: doing and they're all in amazement. So that's why I push.
18:42
Speaker 3: You know, even for the smallest agency, you don't have
18:46
Speaker 3: to get on every platform to you know, beke make
18:51
Speaker 3: your house, an authority, positive stand out. Just show up
18:55
Speaker 3: and be consistent. You know, a policy, a plan and
18:58
Speaker 3: a phone can take you a long way. And you know,
19:02
Speaker 3: that's what we're seeing. That's what I tried to push that,
19:05
Speaker 3: you know, just get out there and be consistent. Tell
19:08
Speaker 3: you know your Storytell what's going on behind the scenes.
19:11
Speaker 3: Just show up so that you know individuals, the residents,
19:14
Speaker 3: the city, your partners know that you are here and
19:18
Speaker 3: that you are doing good things.
19:21
Speaker 2: This is a tricky one and I've I've had many
19:24
Speaker 2: developers on the podcast. I've had housing authorities, I've had nonprofits,
19:30
Speaker 2: and this is a this is a tricky one for everybody.
19:33
Speaker 2: But I have to ask you also, is you know
19:37
Speaker 2: what when a community wants to build new affordable housing,
19:43
Speaker 2: there inherently everybody braces for the controversy.
19:48
Speaker 3: Everybody braces for the resistance, for the struggle.
19:52
Speaker 2: Do you have ways that you can help housing authorities
19:58
Speaker 2: or developers or community partners, whoever they are. Do you
20:02
Speaker 2: have ways that you can help encourage them to navigate
20:07
Speaker 2: that resistance.
20:12
Speaker 3: I'm not sure if I do or not. I would
20:16
Speaker 3: like to believe that, you know, just stepping out in
20:19
Speaker 3: front and letting people know, Hey, let me know what
20:23
Speaker 3: your concerns are. Let the residents the community know. You know, hey,
20:29
Speaker 3: this is how we're tackling what. You know, your your
20:32
Speaker 3: issue is if you don't want you know, a mixed
20:35
Speaker 3: income unit because you're afraid that you know, the individual
20:39
Speaker 3: that is low income is going to bring down the
20:41
Speaker 3: whole neighborhood. You know, let us show you, you know,
20:44
Speaker 3: some other agencies that have done this successfully, and you know,
20:48
Speaker 3: let's let's look at that. Even if we have to
20:51
Speaker 3: take a trip, you know, the city council has to
20:53
Speaker 3: go on a trip. Just look at you know, your
20:56
Speaker 3: choice neighborhoods you're moving to work programs or you know
21:00
Speaker 3: an authority that has just built in a city. Let's
21:04
Speaker 3: take these initiatives and do it. You know, let's start
21:07
Speaker 3: from you know, answering all the questions. Make it. You know,
21:11
Speaker 3: even though there may be some bad you know that's
21:15
Speaker 3: going to come along with it, at least show up
21:18
Speaker 3: and talk and state that you're aware that these are
21:21
Speaker 3: the concerns. But this is how you are handling it.
21:25
Speaker 3: Let's show the you know, behind the scenes, you know
21:27
Speaker 3: what you're talking about, how you're answering these questions in
21:31
Speaker 3: your you know, at your in your meetings.
21:34
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that is what everybody is.
21:39
Speaker 3: I mean, they're the resistance.
21:41
Speaker 2: And how you plan for that and how you communicate
21:44
Speaker 2: that makes a difference because I have talked about the
21:49
Speaker 2: fear versus fact component of it. You know, if the
21:52
Speaker 2: fear is crime, then you know, you can confront it
21:55
Speaker 2: with the facts, right, Or if the fear is perky
22:00
Speaker 2: congestion traffic, well, then you can confront it with the
22:03
Speaker 2: facts of you know, there's less traffic than you know,
22:06
Speaker 2: the grocery store that's down the street, right, so, or
22:11
Speaker 2: if it's aesthetics, like so many times it's we don't
22:14
Speaker 2: want the property to look bad, well, then that is
22:17
Speaker 2: the perfect moment for community partnership to say, oh right,
22:21
Speaker 2: let's have it blend and be better. Let's create awnings,
22:25
Speaker 2: let's create you know, whatever the pieces are, parking in
22:28
Speaker 2: the back versus parking in the front. You know, whatever
22:30
Speaker 2: the pieces are here, and you know the you know,
22:34
Speaker 2: in that example, the beauty is is when people can
22:37
Speaker 2: drive by and not know it's affordable housing. And that
22:40
Speaker 2: is what the process should look like, is for the
22:44
Speaker 2: community to come in and say, you know, we don't.
22:46
Speaker 2: We don't want the congestion, we don't want the crime,
22:48
Speaker 2: we don't want the aesthetics of it. But hopefully the
22:52
Speaker 2: housing agency is navigating their own development, or that entity
22:57
Speaker 2: is navigating to the development in such a way that
22:59
Speaker 2: they can and respond. But it's having you help them
23:04
Speaker 2: navigate that is really makes a difference because you're you're
23:09
Speaker 2: not attached to the developer and the housing authority, but
23:12
Speaker 2: you're also not the community and so you really can
23:14
Speaker 2: help fill those gaps and facilitate that. And and we
23:18
Speaker 2: need that, I mean, we need a person like you
23:20
Speaker 2: to step in that role to help hear both sides
23:26
Speaker 2: of the scenario. And I appreciate what you're doing for
23:29
Speaker 2: the housing authority because at the end of the day,
23:31
Speaker 2: is we want.
23:32
Speaker 3: Really good housing.
23:33
Speaker 2: You know, we want people to be able to live.
23:35
Speaker 3: And work in their communities.
23:37
Speaker 2: You know, we want a stabilizing moment for people to
23:41
Speaker 2: have rent that is appropriate to their wages. And so
23:45
Speaker 2: to have you help solve some of that is is amazing.
23:50
Speaker 3: I also saw a.
23:51
Speaker 2: Post that you made on LinkedIn, and I love the forum. There.
23:56
Speaker 2: You said that a housing authority, Uh, I'm gonna I'm
24:00
Speaker 2: gonna summarise hit here so you could you can fix it.
24:03
Speaker 3: Here after I say it. But you said something about
24:05
Speaker 3: a housing authority wanting the community.
24:08
Speaker 2: To trust them. But the how you called out the
24:12
Speaker 2: housing authority and said that they needed to start inside
24:16
Speaker 2: their agency first.
24:18
Speaker 3: So tell tell us more about that. Well, that post
24:22
Speaker 3: was basically just centered around you know, internal communications. They
24:27
Speaker 3: matter just as much as external because you know, from
24:30
Speaker 3: the top down, if you know, your leadership is you know,
24:35
Speaker 3: not listening to what you know, your property managers, your
24:39
Speaker 3: maintenance workers, your lawn caer. You know, people are saying
24:44
Speaker 3: because they're interacting with the residents and they hear things
24:47
Speaker 3: and they see things, and if you're not listening to
24:51
Speaker 3: them and you don't give them an environment where they
24:54
Speaker 3: can speak up and they feel you know, trusted and
24:58
Speaker 3: they feel like supported in their jobs, that's going to
25:01
Speaker 3: carry over into how they treat the residents. And we
25:04
Speaker 3: do not want that, you know, we want it to
25:07
Speaker 3: be a warm environment. We want you know, your residence
25:10
Speaker 3: when they come in to ask questions, you know, for
25:15
Speaker 3: if even if you don't have the answer, you know,
25:17
Speaker 3: to find it and want to contact their resident and
25:19
Speaker 3: let them know what the answer is. You know, so
25:24
Speaker 3: I feel like, you know, if you just start asking
25:26
Speaker 3: your staff that's on the ground, what residents are saying,
25:31
Speaker 3: what problems that they are noticing within their communities, what
25:35
Speaker 3: are they complaining about the most That's where you can
25:38
Speaker 3: start with your content, you know, build your content around,
25:42
Speaker 3: you know, the questions that are being asked to your
25:44
Speaker 3: property managers when they come in, if they don't understand
25:47
Speaker 3: how you know, they pay rent, or they don't understand
25:51
Speaker 3: you know, the hood flat rent notices that they're getting.
25:54
Speaker 3: You know, let's break it down into bite sized pieces
25:58
Speaker 3: so that everybody can understand online.
26:02
Speaker 2: Are there a couple of really good examples of housing
26:05
Speaker 2: authorities who are doing it right that you would brag
26:09
Speaker 2: want to brag on, well, like saying do you.
26:12
Speaker 3: Have a favorite child at the moment?
26:13
Speaker 2: So that may may not be a fair question, but
26:16
Speaker 2: if people are listening and saying, you know what I thought, Mike,
26:20
Speaker 2: I thought we were doing it fine, because there is
26:22
Speaker 2: something that they could go out and compare and say, oh,
26:26
Speaker 2: compared to theirs, maybe I'm not doing it fine.
26:30
Speaker 3: I can actually probably brag on most of the agencies
26:33
Speaker 3: that I'm working with. I would say that when it
26:36
Speaker 3: comes to residence services, Goldsborough Housing Authority is one of
26:41
Speaker 3: the top notch. You know, they go above and beyond
26:43
Speaker 3: and they really try to make their residence feel supported.
26:48
Speaker 3: Borough in North Carolina. Right, Yes, Now, when it comes
26:52
Speaker 3: to the ROSS program, you can't get any better than
26:57
Speaker 3: Laurel House and Authority in Mississippi. They are amazing. If
27:02
Speaker 3: you're trying to get resident engagement, if you're trying to
27:05
Speaker 3: get your residents to feel wanted and needed and that
27:12
Speaker 3: their voice matters, then I would go talk to those ladies,
27:16
Speaker 3: those ROSS coordinators in Laurel.
27:19
Speaker 2: Perhaps shout out to all our young there in Laurel, Mississippi, right.
27:24
Speaker 3: And I would say if you're wondering how to get
27:29
Speaker 3: your community partners to show up for you, because I mean,
27:33
Speaker 3: you know, one of the issues that you know, a
27:35
Speaker 3: lot of housing authorities have is they don't have enough
27:38
Speaker 3: staff when it comes to certain you know, initiatives. They
27:42
Speaker 3: may want to be more, they want to make maybe
27:44
Speaker 3: they may want to do more, but they don't just
27:47
Speaker 3: have the staff in the time. So Auburn House an
27:50
Speaker 3: Authority in Alabama, Uh, they do a great job with
27:55
Speaker 3: making sure their partners are a part of everything. For example,
28:01
Speaker 3: I'll you know, tell you one of their tricks is
28:06
Speaker 3: they start, you know, at the end of the year, uh,
28:10
Speaker 3: reaching out to their partners. They send like a basically
28:13
Speaker 3: a blast to all their partners saying, hey, you know
28:17
Speaker 3: this is we're coming up on a new year. We
28:19
Speaker 3: really want you to be a part of our agency
28:21
Speaker 3: and help our residents next year. So let's go ahead
28:25
Speaker 3: and start putting stuff on the calendar. And pretty much
28:28
Speaker 3: their partners just start, you know, chiming back in and replying, Hey,
28:32
Speaker 3: I can do a four week financial literacy course, you
28:35
Speaker 3: know in the month of April. Or I can do
28:39
Speaker 3: a home ownership program, you know that that could be
28:41
Speaker 3: a local relator, you know that I can do you know,
28:44
Speaker 3: show them how they could become home owners. So basically
28:48
Speaker 3: their calendar gets planned by their partners, almost called the
28:53
Speaker 3: whole year. To me, that's very impressive, especially if you
28:56
Speaker 3: are one the two people you know, residence Services team.
29:00
Speaker 3: They are actually utilizing their partners for more. Because the
29:04
Speaker 3: partners have the expertise, why not let them come into
29:08
Speaker 3: your agency, your community centers and help your residents.
29:11
Speaker 2: You know, we mentioned the good and the bad earlier
29:15
Speaker 2: when we first started talking, and we've kind of we've
29:19
Speaker 2: gone through some strategies here to combat some of those
29:24
Speaker 2: myths or some of those problems with resistance. Are there
29:28
Speaker 2: other pitfalls that you see housing authorities and when we
29:36
Speaker 2: talk about improving their marketing or improving their stories, but
29:40
Speaker 2: are there are there pitfalls that you really really wish
29:43
Speaker 2: housing authorities would try to avoid, Like if you were
29:47
Speaker 2: going to talk to them right here and just say,
29:50
Speaker 2: please please avoid these pitfalls, what would they be?
29:56
Speaker 3: One? Please stop deleting comments, nah, okay, pages, don't turn
30:04
Speaker 3: off comments, you know, don't hide comments, don't block comments.
30:07
Speaker 3: You know, you're putting yourself in a legal you know possibility,
30:12
Speaker 3: you know, possibly a legal arrangement here if you do that.
30:16
Speaker 3: And social media is supposed to be social, so, you know,
30:20
Speaker 3: even just bad comments, sometimes they can tell you about yourself,
30:23
Speaker 3: you know, because you know a resident that is often
30:25
Speaker 3: complaining that they keep calling your office and they're not
30:29
Speaker 3: getting any answers. That may mean you need to speak
30:32
Speaker 3: to one of your property managers or reach out to
30:35
Speaker 3: that number that they're calling to find out what's going on.
30:38
Speaker 3: You know, it's one of your employees really just sending
30:42
Speaker 3: people to the voicemail and not returning calls because they
30:45
Speaker 3: don't want to be social or they want don't want
30:47
Speaker 3: to communicate. You know, sometimes your residents or the people
30:51
Speaker 3: out in the community do tell you things that you
30:53
Speaker 3: need to know. It's just a matter of whether you
30:55
Speaker 3: want to hear it or not. So turning off comments
30:59
Speaker 3: it would be one thing that I would say, do
31:01
Speaker 3: not do. Also, let's move from using a bunch of
31:08
Speaker 3: emojis in your post, because emojis are not necessarily accessible.
31:15
Speaker 3: You know, if you're wanting your content to be viewed
31:19
Speaker 3: and read by individuals with disabilities, then you don't want
31:23
Speaker 3: to use a whole bunch of emojis because when a
31:25
Speaker 3: screen reader reads that information, it's telling you what that
31:28
Speaker 3: emoji is, along with the jargon or the caption that
31:32
Speaker 3: you've put in there. So let's limit, you know, using emojis.
31:37
Speaker 3: Another thing I would say is this one may hurt
31:43
Speaker 3: some people, but you can almost tell when an agency,
31:46
Speaker 3: their CEO is running their social media and you don't
31:52
Speaker 3: want that. You know, the housing authority is a team effort.
31:59
Speaker 3: Every post that you make shouldn't be about what the
32:03
Speaker 3: CEO is doing. You know, that is something that I
32:07
Speaker 3: would say and make sure you know you do not
32:09
Speaker 3: do you know, it's okay to talk about your CEO sometime. Yeah, yeah,
32:15
Speaker 3: and the vision that they bring forth through the agency.
32:18
Speaker 3: But every post shouldn't be about the CEO. Every press
32:23
Speaker 3: release shouldn't be you know, the CEO's name inside of
32:27
Speaker 3: the headline. Okay, what would be another thing that I
32:32
Speaker 3: would say, Oh, this is a big one. Flyers, Flyers
32:37
Speaker 3: on social media. Flyers are meant to be handed out. Yeah,
32:41
Speaker 3: social media because most of the time they're not acsessible,
32:46
Speaker 3: and you know, it's better to utilize photos, uh, you know,
32:52
Speaker 3: real photos, my stock images. You know, just use photos
32:56
Speaker 3: from your residents if you have permission, even if you
33:01
Speaker 3: if you if you don't have permission, it's okay to ask,
33:05
Speaker 3: you know, a resident if they're attendant an event, if
33:08
Speaker 3: it's if you can utilize there and get there and
33:11
Speaker 3: the sign off on it. But even if you're talking
33:13
Speaker 3: about your you know, your maintenance, your the the core
33:18
Speaker 3: of your residence, the housing authority, the outside, the exterior,
33:23
Speaker 3: the grounds. You know, you can go around and take
33:25
Speaker 3: pictures of that property and post it on social media.
33:30
Speaker 3: You know, that works way better than a stock image
33:34
Speaker 3: of you know, somebody in a rural part of North
33:38
Speaker 3: Carolina posting a picture of what seems like New York,
33:41
Speaker 3: it doesn't hit. So those are some of the things
33:46
Speaker 3: that I would say are big. You know, flyers is
33:49
Speaker 3: probably be one of the biggest, because you see a
33:52
Speaker 3: lot of agencies basically just using you know, their flyer
33:59
Speaker 3: as a way to communicate, and that that's not good.
34:05
Speaker 3: Pass those Pass those flyers out, go door to door,
34:08
Speaker 3: knock and hand them out.
34:09
Speaker 2: Yeah.
34:10
Speaker 3: Well, I actually have one more thing. Even in your newsletters.
34:14
Speaker 3: You know, when you're you know, doing newsletters, even if
34:17
Speaker 3: you're do them monthly by bi monthly, quarterly, uh, let's
34:24
Speaker 3: move from a bunch of rental lease information to using
34:30
Speaker 3: the don'ts, and let's try to make it a little
34:33
Speaker 3: bit more fun, something that they're actually going to pick
34:36
Speaker 3: up and look at. Right. And one of the things
34:39
Speaker 3: that I am big on is letting the residents see
34:44
Speaker 3: themselves on the inside of those newsletters. It's been very
34:51
Speaker 3: efficient and beneficial for a resident to see themselves either
34:56
Speaker 3: on social media or in a newsletter. We've had agents,
34:59
Speaker 3: We've had people at agencies to call us and be like, hey,
35:02
Speaker 3: when's the next newsletter coming out because I know they
35:05
Speaker 3: took a picture of me or I you know, made
35:07
Speaker 3: a comment, and you know, basically they want to see themselves.
35:11
Speaker 3: It's almost like you know, you're going to see your
35:13
Speaker 3: child perform at you know, a at their school and
35:19
Speaker 3: you want to take pictures and you can't wait to
35:21
Speaker 3: get home and post them on social media because you
35:24
Speaker 3: want the likes and the loves and the comments are,
35:28
Speaker 3: oh my baby is doing this. Yeah, youdents want that
35:31
Speaker 3: as well. You know, residents want to be you know,
35:33
Speaker 3: seeing in pictures doing good things because those are your
35:36
Speaker 3: posts that are going to get shared throughout the community.
35:39
Speaker 3: You know, your self sufficiency programs, your graduates, you know,
35:43
Speaker 3: getting their stories and you know, just making them, spotlight them,
35:48
Speaker 3: making them a big deal. That really helps drive you know, engagement.
35:53
Speaker 3: It data matters, but human stories they you know, they.
35:58
Speaker 2: Move the mark. There's something about attachment too, when and
36:03
Speaker 2: this is the core definition of community, is that you
36:07
Speaker 2: want to have people engaged and attached to the community
36:10
Speaker 2: because that spills over and how people are investing, how
36:15
Speaker 2: people are supportive, how people will say, hey, you know,
36:20
Speaker 2: don't drop your trash on it, right, like, you know,
36:22
Speaker 2: get your kids to you know, do better and that community,
36:27
Speaker 2: that attachment to what's happening being a part of that
36:31
Speaker 2: just it lifts other aspects of it. And it's like
36:36
Speaker 2: any other neighborhood too, where you know, you've you've got
36:40
Speaker 2: you know, Grandma's watching out the window to see what's
36:43
Speaker 2: going on right like, and you want that, you want
36:47
Speaker 2: people to be attached to that, so you know, I
36:51
Speaker 2: that's a good thing when that happens. Yes, it's a
36:54
Speaker 2: good thing when they see themselves in the newsletter. It's
36:56
Speaker 2: a good thing when people want to say, I want
36:58
Speaker 2: to be a part of this movement and I want
37:00
Speaker 2: to help preserve.
37:02
Speaker 3: What's happening here.
37:04
Speaker 2: That's a great validation of these communities that we're supporting.
37:09
Speaker 3: How do you.
37:11
Speaker 2: Know, so we've got that. The good thing.
37:14
Speaker 4: Then, on the other side, is how do you handle
37:17
Speaker 4: the frustration of you know, people who are putting in
37:22
Speaker 4: the Google comments or who people are saying, you know,
37:26
Speaker 4: I've got resident confusion, resident frustrations, you know, and I'm
37:30
Speaker 4: gonna air out the grievance you know, in this way.
37:34
Speaker 2: And and some of that can be very legitimate because
37:37
Speaker 2: they have tried, they have tried. The other way and
37:39
Speaker 2: it has worked, or some of it is not legitimate
37:43
Speaker 2: because it's like, well there's no record of you, you know,
37:46
Speaker 2: first I've heard of this, So how.
37:49
Speaker 3: Do you advise people to handle that? So first off,
37:54
Speaker 3: you just have to be professional because you know, with
37:58
Speaker 3: me being on the you know, out on the side
38:01
Speaker 3: of getting those comments and seeing them, sometimes you know,
38:05
Speaker 3: you do take them to heart because you're like, you know,
38:07
Speaker 3: the agency didn't mean that, or I know that that's
38:10
Speaker 3: not their you know, thought process. But sometimes you just
38:14
Speaker 3: have to walk away from the comments that you know
38:17
Speaker 3: bother you and come back when you are able to
38:19
Speaker 3: respond in a professional way. You know, you want to
38:23
Speaker 3: make sure the resident or whoever is complaining or voicing
38:28
Speaker 3: their concerns. You want to make sure they're heard, you know. Uh,
38:31
Speaker 3: so you don't want to provoke them to do more
38:36
Speaker 3: in a sense. So you know, when you do comment
38:39
Speaker 3: or respond, you you know, thank them for you know,
38:42
Speaker 3: reaching out, thank them for letting you know what's happening,
38:46
Speaker 3: and tell them the process that you're going to do
38:50
Speaker 3: to move forward, you know, and even if that's reaching
38:54
Speaker 3: out to the staff member that they're trying to reach
38:57
Speaker 3: or hey, let me give you another number to text
39:00
Speaker 3: so that you can, you know, right off to the
39:03
Speaker 3: individual that you need to talk to. Maybe you're calling
39:05
Speaker 3: the wrong number, but we're not going to say you're
39:08
Speaker 3: doing wrong. We're just going to, you know, help you direct, you,
39:12
Speaker 3: bring clarity to whatever question or issue that you're having,
39:16
Speaker 3: so that not only are we professional, but you feel supported,
39:23
Speaker 3: you feel heard. We're transparent in what we're saying, so
39:27
Speaker 3: that even if you you know, still are a little heeded,
39:35
Speaker 3: at least you know that we answered, we are here.
39:40
Speaker 3: We you know, we did show up. We did, you know,
39:43
Speaker 3: provide a response because sometimes you know, if the phone
39:46
Speaker 3: is ringing at the agency and nobody's picking up, they
39:48
Speaker 3: will come online because they see that you're posting. They
39:51
Speaker 3: see that you're being consistent in posting, so somebody has
39:54
Speaker 3: to be behind the post, so they'll reach out. And
39:58
Speaker 3: you know, immediately when I get a uh, you know,
40:00
Speaker 3: a comment like that, I reach out to someone at
40:05
Speaker 3: the agency that I know is going to respond and say, hey,
40:07
Speaker 3: this is what I'm seeing. You know, do I need
40:11
Speaker 3: to direct them to a particular person or you know,
40:14
Speaker 3: how we handle this.
40:16
Speaker 2: So yeah, and you're talking about a process, you're talking
40:20
Speaker 2: about systems. You're talking about people, and any of those
40:24
Speaker 2: can have a glitch, and so there is a good
40:27
Speaker 2: you know that that that comment is a good check
40:29
Speaker 2: and balance of the people, the process, and the system
40:33
Speaker 2: to see, hey look there's a gap. Hey look there's
40:35
Speaker 2: a glitch.
40:36
Speaker 3: Something happened. And I mean, that's okay to Q see.
40:39
Speaker 2: Those I I I have two stories to share, you know.
40:44
Speaker 2: One I just ordered a birthday cake for a family
40:49
Speaker 2: member who's out of state, and I sent it and
40:53
Speaker 2: I called. I called the number order the cake versus
40:58
Speaker 2: doing it online because I thought I want to I
41:02
Speaker 2: want to call and deal with a person versus just
41:05
Speaker 2: going online. And it took over thirty minutes to order
41:11
Speaker 2: the cake because of old times, routing times, excessive questions
41:18
Speaker 2: to order something super super simple. And the frustration I
41:22
Speaker 2: had after that one phone call was like that was
41:27
Speaker 2: a bad mood. And I think that's something so simple,
41:32
Speaker 2: like just ordering a birthday cake. But when people are
41:36
Speaker 2: handling people's housing and the threat of security and the
41:41
Speaker 2: threat of am I gonna lose at my housing? And
41:43
Speaker 2: am I gonna you know, is my rate gonna go up?
41:46
Speaker 2: Like these are real, real threats that you know, and
41:51
Speaker 2: I'm thinking like my thirty minute phone call was something
41:53
Speaker 2: that was super minor and inconsequential. Think about, you know,
41:59
Speaker 2: a thirty minute from strading phone call where you've been
42:01
Speaker 2: put through a phone queue, where you've been put through
42:04
Speaker 2: and yet you know you're you're you're threatened, like your
42:07
Speaker 2: housing is threatened here possibly by the time they get
42:11
Speaker 2: through that phone tree or by the time they get
42:13
Speaker 2: to a life person, this is this is a real issue.
42:17
Speaker 2: And so when you know, if they're saying, wait, I'm
42:19
Speaker 2: going to go and make a comment, you know, there's
42:22
Speaker 2: stuff to really sort through to understand the dynamic. And
42:26
Speaker 2: it takes a very skilled person on the other side
42:30
Speaker 2: of that phone call to understand that. So and then
42:34
Speaker 2: you know, the second thing is I, you know, in
42:36
Speaker 2: my in my own storytelling here to kind of help
42:39
Speaker 2: set the platform and really show exactly what you're talking
42:42
Speaker 2: about here is you know, I've called our phone lines
42:46
Speaker 2: for our staff that when we work with housing authorities,
42:49
Speaker 2: and I've tested our own people like I because I
42:52
Speaker 2: know the reports, I know exactly when the peak times are,
42:55
Speaker 2: and so I have called during peak time to see
42:58
Speaker 2: how our staff respect and I have actually timed it
43:05
Speaker 2: to say, how long does it take me to get
43:08
Speaker 2: through the line, how long does it take for me
43:10
Speaker 2: to talk to a real person?
43:12
Speaker 3: And were they helpful? And how did I feel after
43:15
Speaker 3: that phone call?
43:16
Speaker 2: And I bring that up because I challenge people in
43:21
Speaker 2: the housing authority if you're in leadership, even if you
43:24
Speaker 2: don't supervise the people who answer the phones, do you
43:26
Speaker 2: know how your people are picking up the phones right?
43:30
Speaker 3: You know?
43:31
Speaker 2: Yeah? Do you know as a leadership team, as a manager,
43:35
Speaker 2: do you have you called to see how your people
43:38
Speaker 2: sound and how that process, how the system and how
43:42
Speaker 2: the people you know, how that's working. And that's that's
43:47
Speaker 2: a real call.
43:48
Speaker 3: To action for leadership of housing authorities too. Yes, definitely
43:54
Speaker 3: what maintenance too, you know how those that work order process?
43:58
Speaker 3: You know, is it clear? Know especially on the weekends.
44:01
Speaker 3: You know, it seems like that's when the really happens
44:03
Speaker 3: on the weekends. Is the emergency line really? You know
44:07
Speaker 3: if someone askering, it's somebody going to show up at
44:09
Speaker 3: my property? And you know, I've had multiple agencies where
44:14
Speaker 3: you know, a resident will post you know, their you know,
44:18
Speaker 3: water flooding in their unit because you know they haven't
44:23
Speaker 3: been able to get anyone and you know, reaching those
44:27
Speaker 3: numbers need to be communicated, They need to be it
44:29
Speaker 3: needs to be an easy process for residents to get
44:32
Speaker 3: to when they need something, or they will you know,
44:37
Speaker 3: there will be a ripple effect, you know, because once
44:40
Speaker 3: one resident starts complaining online, somebody's going to chime in
44:43
Speaker 3: and say me too. So we don't want that.
44:46
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, Tiffany, I really appreciate you joining this conversation.
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Speaker 2: I appreciate what you're doing for the housing authorities and
44:56
Speaker 2: for affordable housing. So hopefully our listeners are taking notes
45:00
Speaker 2: of the tips and the of what they should be
45:03
Speaker 2: doing better in their own storytelling and their own marketing,
45:06
Speaker 2: and they're really just the affirmation of affordable housing. So
45:11
Speaker 2: and if they can reach you through we'll we'll tag
45:15
Speaker 2: you on all the links and so they know how
45:17
Speaker 2: to find you and reach you to help help them along.
45:21
Speaker 2: So thank you so much, Tiffany. Again, I've been talking
45:24
Speaker 2: with Tiffany Dickerson, who is known as the housing Highlighter
45:29
Speaker 2: through her company interest platforms.
45:31
Speaker 3: Thank you so much, Thank you.
45:33
Speaker 1: For having me, Thanks for listening to change Makers with
45:36
Speaker 1: Katie Gore. To find out more about Katie, go to
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Speaker 1: quad l dot com that's qu A d e l
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Speaker 1: dot com. This has been a production of Forbes Books
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