Latest / The Daily Play With Joy Taylor / Joy Taylor on WNBA Toxicity, Caitlin Clark Hype, and Why Honest Critique Matters

Transcript

Joy Taylor on WNBA Toxicity, Caitlin Clark Hype, and Why Honest Critique Matters · The Daily Play With Joy Taylor

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hey guys, welcome to The Daily Play with Joy Taylor.
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Thanks so much for joining me.
• 0:08
  Speaker 2: Make sure you hit subscribe, follow us on social at
• 0:10
  Speaker 2: the Daily Play Joy Taylor. Before we get to the
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: mess that is Los Angeles Professional men's basketball, because both
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: teams are dealing with a lot of crazy drama right now,
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: I want to talk about this quote from El Zuncan
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: that's making the.
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: Rounds right now.
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: My dog Elle was talking about what covering the WNBA
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: is like right now, and she says it's toxic, and that's,
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: you know, obviously to some interpretation, but what she said
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: was right now, the WNBA is most toxic place to cover,
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: and that's incredibly frustrating and sad. There was so much
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: conversation early on, Hey, this is maybe not such a
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: bad thing, right, No such thing as bad publicity. It's
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: all good. Now we're like the men's sports. We've got
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: stupid narratives and discourse and we've got false things being said,
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: and oh, we've made it like men and I think
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: very quickly that's what's turned into, Oh my goodness, everything
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: that people revered and loved about the space is essentially
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: being hijacked. And it just feels like we're in a
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: perpetual cycle that we can't break out of, and every
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: single time there's some ammunition added onto this fire. I
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: just know, at least for me personally, I put my
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: hands in the air, just like I did on Sunday, like,
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: here we go again.
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: It's the worst timeline right now. So I definitely do agree.
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: It is.
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: Incredibly frustrating, And if you follow me on social media,
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: you know that I had enough recently with the trans
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: conversation because it is so incredibly stupid and so incredibly
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: insulting as a woman to listen to men who do
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: not care at all about the safety of women or
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: women's sports and would just as soon.
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: Freak out if the idea of equal pay or.
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: Men being forced to do anything that women are forced
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: to do but send them into an absolute tailspin. Are
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: the same ones at the front of the line saying
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: that they want to protect women by keeping trans women
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: out of professional sports. There are no trans women trying
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: to play in the WNBA, so it is actually a
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: non issue, Like literally, it's not a thing.
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: There are no trans women.
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: Trying to play, and even if they were trying to play,
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: which they're not, they would still have to be drafted.
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: I can say I want to play in the WNBA,
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: I still have to be chosen by a team to
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: do that. So it's really insulting. It's incredibly misogynistic, it's
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: incredibly homophobic, and it's just it's nonsensical. And at the
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: end of the day, I find it to be embarrassing
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: that we as sports fans are continuing to argue about
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: things that don't make sense, and when it comes to
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: the WNBA, it's become.
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: It has become a toxic space.
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: It's become a very unseerious place when we're talking about
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: the type of conversations that we're having. I mean, we
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: were talking about we as a you know, sports community,
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: We're talking about Kaitlyn Clark as if she was going
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: to walk into the league and be the best player
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: in the league. I mean, some people were saying that
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: she was the best player in league before she ever
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: even steps foot in the WNBA, which is obviously ridiculous,
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: and it's insulting to the idea that there is a
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: professional league where women have been playing at the highest
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: level in the world for you know, decades at a time,
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: winning championships, putting up numbers and someone's going to before
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: they ever even set foot there be a better player
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: than them.
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: That's obviously proven to be true time and time again.
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: And I think that with any breakthrough moment, there's going
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: to be some rockiness to it. There's going to be
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: some controversy, there's going to be some ignorance, there's going
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: to be an adjustment period. And while I do think
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: it's top right now, I think overall, big picture, it
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: is positive. I think it's positive that people are wanting
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: to pay attention to the WNBA. I think it's positive
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: that it's on these talk shows that transcend sports. I
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: think it's positive that people have an opinion about the
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: league whatsoever, even if it is toxic or misplaced, or
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: misogynistic or homophobic, because in the end, it is forcing
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: them to talk about the league. More eyeballs means more awareness,
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: means more sales means more clicks, like all of those
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: things matter.
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: So the idea that no publicity is bad publicity.
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: Absolutely applies to this particular situation with the league, and
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: it's why the men's leagues absolutely do not mind that
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: there are toxic conversations about the coverage of the leagues
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: They do not mind that there are featured on talk shows,
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: you know, listening Who's Best in having someone that shouldn't
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: be in the top ten by any means whatsoever, just
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: to generate conversation.
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: They don't mind that there is so much coverage.
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: They don't mind that people are making social media videos
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: about it, because at the end of the day, it
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: forces people to talk about it.
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: It keeps it in.
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: Your purview, and in a world where clicks matter so
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: much and eyeballs and attention matter so much, there is
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: a level to that that very much influences the growth
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: and also in a positive way. People who disagree with
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: the toxicity, people who disagree with the stupid conversations, people
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: who disagree with the standpoint of so many, you know,
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: let's be honest straight, men who have invaded the situation
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: and turned it into this toxic type of conversation, they
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: become hardcore fans. So I absolutely get what Ill was saying.
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: I think anything that you know started as special and
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: small and quiet and this you know kind of kind
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: of you know, hipster thing that was special to be
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: a part of. If it's gonna grow, if it's gonna
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: hit mainstream, it's gonna have some growing pains, it's going
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: to have some discomfort. It's gonna have people coming in
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: that weren't there originally that that aren't hardcore fans. And
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: I say this all the time to people when it
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: comes to sports and covering sports, because people ask me
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: all the time, you know, what's it like to cover sports?
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: And do you have to know everything? And you know
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: you have to research.
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: You know, every single player is like you don't, you
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: don't like nobody knows everything. The average sports fan has
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: a life as a family, has kids, has bills, has
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: a job, like, has things going on. They really can
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: only pay attention to one or two teams. They're not
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: completely locked in on everything that's going on. They are
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: relying on the media, They are relying on their fan
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: conversations to get them the information about the things that
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: they care about.
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: It's all very surface level and because nobody has time
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: for that.
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: People have lives, like people have things going on, So
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: you can't expect everybody to be a hardcore fan. They
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: might have one or two things that they deeply care
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: about in the league.
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: So you know, I'm okay with new fans. I think
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: it's important.
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: I think it's vitally important for the growth of women's
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: sports that we have honest conversations about play, about.
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: What's happening on the court.
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: I think we have to be critical in the way
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: that we're critical about men. And I think that is
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: the next iteration of the coverage of the WNBA is that,
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: you know, looking at every kind of coverage as toxic,
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: is that that makes it unseerious. And one of my
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: former colleagues, Rick Bucker, talks about this when talking about
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: the coverage of the w NBA, of you know, they're
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: not being as many male analysts covering the WNBA, which
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: I'm fine whether it being mostly women analysts covering them
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: or all iman analysts covering the WNBA. I mean, if
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: you look at college football, you'd be hard pressed to
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: find a woman at a desk talking about college football,
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: even though most of the most serious college football fans
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: that I know are in fact women. So there's not
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: a whole lot of diversity in a lot of these broadcasts.
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: But the bigger point that I do agree with him
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: on is we can't be afraid to criticize, Like if
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: someone blows a game, you got to be able to say,
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: like Hey, she blew it and say it emphatically and
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: say it unapologetically, and she has to be okay with
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: handling being covered that way because the men are And yeah,
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: like the men think it personally. Like there's all kinds
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: of intermedia beef and beef of fans and all that. Like,
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: nobody likes to be told they did something wrong.
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: I don't like to be told that I did something wrong.
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: Nobody likes to have their work critiques. I don't love
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: having my work critiques.
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: But at the end of the day, if you're putting
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: something out there, if you are in the limelight, if
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: you're in the public space, that is the agreement that
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: we make is that we put our workout, whether it
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: is media, whether it is a talk show, whether it
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: is a sport, and the fans and the people that
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: covered what they receive it as is what they receive it. Like,
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: we don't get to dictate that as the talent. And
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: you know, as long as it's not disrespectful, but like
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: a fair and emphatic criticism about fans that like want
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: you to have success and like care about your game
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: and are talking about what's happening on the court, not
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: your personality, not what you look like, not how you
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: do your hair, not anything that has to do with
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: your race or your backgrounds or your sexual preface, and
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: take all that out of it and they're just critiquing
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: your game. That has to be able to happen in
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: a real way, and it has to be allowed, and
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: it's got to be the way that the men's sports
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: are covered, which is not always gentle. And I think
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: that is the next iteration. So I do agree with Elle.
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: It's incredibly toxic right now. But I do think as
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: a whole, if we want this momentum that's happening with
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: women's sports, particularly with women's basketball, to continue and to
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: grow and to solidify, it's got to be handled the
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: way that we handle every other sport that we cover,
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: particularly men's sports.
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: But we're honest and like, yeah, you blew that game,
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah that was a bad pass.
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah you are Lebron James, the greatest player on the planet,
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: and you chose not to take that pass and pass
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: it to some regular guy in the corner and he
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: missed it.
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: Like, we need to be able to critique you like that,
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: and if we can't do.
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: That, because everyone doesn't feel comfortable. It's never going to grow,
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: it's never going to become a part of the mainstream,
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: it's never going to be something that people pay attention to.
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: And I say that confidently with Tinto's down because I've
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: been in this business for almost twenty years. So there's
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: a way to do that without being disrespectful, with well
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: one hundred percent keeping it about the sport, and I
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: think that is.
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: What we really need to allow.
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: The space for, not the stupid conversations about trans people
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: and not the conversations about MAGA stuff that's not important
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: when it comes to what's on the court. You've got
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: to make space for people to be able to have
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: their opinions about that and it be as accepted as.
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: We do with the mens.
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: For more on this and other tough stories of the day,
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: tune into The Daily play with Joey Taylor at urbanwepodcast
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: dot com wherever you get your podcasts.
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: Make sure you hit subscribe before you go. Follow us
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: on social Daily play Joy Taylor Z